Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm privileged, proud, ecstatic to be joined by the graceful, the one, the only, the innominable, Rachel Cruz.Un Unbelievable.Thanks, Ken. This is a special day, not because I'm with you in studio, and it's always a special day to do the show with you. Always a special day then, yes. But it's your special day. It is your birthday, and America wants to say happy birthday. Oh, well, thank you. They told me. I am on behalf of the American people saying happy birthday to Rachel Cruz. Are we allowed to tell people how old you are?

I guess. I don't know what age you get to. I'm not telling them.

I know how old she is, but I'll leave it up to her, folks.

I'm 36. Whoa, she's almost an adult.

This is exciting. Almost. You're almost there. Not quite there.

I am the spring chicken of the bunch when it comes to here as the host.

Are you the youngest Ramsey person Now, I am. Even younger than George? Oh, gosh, George.

No, I am older than George.

That's awkward. You only co-host a show with him. Smart Money Happy Hour. You know what? I think we...

Oh, gosh, George. I think we graduated the same year. But I think- He's a little bit younger. No, he's a year younger than me. We graduate. I was a year older than him.

Big plans tonight?

I'm heading to Atlanta, Ken, for- A book signing. My last book signing tomorrow in Atlanta. As fate would have it.

It's a book.

I'm glad for where I am. Yes. Children's Book. Yes. Tomorrow from 1:00 to 2:00, I'll be at the Barnes & Noble. Where? In Alpharetta. Yeah, I know that one. Mersal Crossing. Is that right?

Over near North Point Mall.

Yes, possibly We're over in there. But from 1:00 to 2:00 tomorrow, Atlanta, come hang out. We'll be doing a story time and the kids' book. It'll be the last stop of the book tour.

For those of you that are planning to come or now want to show up, bring a cupcake. Rachel loves chocolate, and we'll keep celebrating her birthday the day after. It's very fun. It's exciting. I feel, James, I dropped the ball as her co-host and co-worker and friend for many years. I feel like I dropped the ball. I should have brought a small cake.

Just giving us a great acapella.

I'll make some I'll make some calls maybe for hour two, hour three. We'll see what I can pull off.

I need a happy birthday song for me, Ken. Oh, I'll sing. I know you will. Maybe I'll know.

You actually have a pretty good voice. Maybe going out to the break, I'll sing Happy Birthday, too. We'll see. America wants to hear that, so stay tuned. But Of course, Maria is joining us in My Old Stomping Grounds, where I went to high school, Rachel, Virginia Beach. Maria, how can we help?

Hi. Happy birthday, Rachel.

Oh, thank you, Maria. I have.

You're welcome. I have a $12,000 credit card debt that is on an emergency low rate of 3% until November. I am considering debt settlement for that credit card so that I can pay a lower amount in a lump sum. I wanted to know if you recommend debt settlement.

Well, what was the debt from?

From my previous marriage.

Okay. Was it your debts together? Was the credit card under both of your names?

Yes, it was debt together, and we are getting divorced, so that's what I ended up with.

Okay.

Because the credit card is under my name.

Because it was under your name. So yeah, it's going to you. Okay, so here's the thing with debt settlement. Usually, when your debt goes into collections, meaning if you don't have the money, because I'm assuming you don't, do you have the money to pay this?

I don't have $12,000. I've been making the minimum payment, so it won't go into collection.

Okay.

Yeah. So it's not in collection, but I can pay just a minimum.

So with the debt settlement, Usually with these companies, Maria, there's a lot of fees. There's a lot of twistedness that a lot of people, they get in a position where it ends up harming them more than it hurts, or it ends up harming them more than it helps them. And honestly, Maria, at At this point, my goal for you would be able to pay this off, even if it is paying minimum payments at a time, and then start working your way to putting more money towards this every month to become completely debt-free, Why is the debt settlement for you, is it just because... I mean, why don't you want to just pay this off over a period of time?

Well, I have a low income, so I'm starting all over. I'm 56, and I'm just trying to figure out how to style a mother, and this debt is making me anxious. I can collect some money. I can get some money to pay the debt if the debt settlement is not going to harm me that much. I know it has some negative.

How much do you make a year?

I wanted to try to do that directly with the bank.

How much do you make a year?

Thirty-two.

Thirty-two thousand. What do you do?

Administrative work.

Do you have kids?

I'm going to school. No, they're adults.

What are you going to school for?

My undergraduate degree.

Yes. In what? What are you pursuing the degree for?

In what? Management.

Okay. Why don't you quickly outline for us? Because I want you to understand the negatives, and you I understand there are negatives to the settlement. What are they specifically for you?

Well, it affects the credit. Of course. I know that it affects my credit.

Not a big deal there. We'll explain that. Keep going.

Also, the fees that have not been disclosed to me. Exactly.

Yeah. What ends up happening in these situations, Maria, a lot is people in your situation, will contact a debt settlement company. Again, and I don't want to say easy way out because I know you're in a really hard situation, so I'm not saying that phrase flippantly, but really hoping that this is the thing that's going to help them get out. And then what ends up happening is they put you on some type of payment plan. There's a lot of fees. You can't keep up with that. If you're back behind, sometimes they'll end up charging you back interest as well. It just becomes this spider web that's all tangled, and it sometimes does not pan out the way you think it does. So if anything, Maria, I almost would contact... Who's the credit card with? What bank?

It's with a credit union.

Okay, well, that's good, because at least credit unions, theirs are better than big national banks because you can actually talk to a person. And I almost would just go down and tell them your situation, show them your income, and just say, Hey, I'm not going to be able to pay this off for a really long time. And if I'm able to get together and see if you can do some type of settlement, even with them, versus having to use a middleman. Because these middleman companies, I just don't trust them yet. I feel like we've heard so many stories where the person in your position ends up getting screwed up, and you end up in a worse situation. If anything, I would keep the minimum payments, don't get behind, see if you can up your income, and see how... Map out how long it would take for you to just pay this off. But I would go down to the credit union, have a meeting, and tell them your situation, and see if they can you out instead of using a middleman.

Maria, even outside of that advice, you need probably a second job right now while you're getting trained in school to get a much better job. A second income, even if it's 20 hours a week, would really give you some margin that you're going to need. Don't move, folks. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Guys, it's no secret that the real estate market is weird right now. So go with a mortgage company you can trust to have your back. Churchill Mortgage.

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Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. The Ramsey Show continues from our headquarters here just south of Nashville. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me, and we are here for you this hour, America, 828 5, 2, 2, 5. Boy, oh, boy, we got a great event coming up, and I can't believe it's right around the corner. May 10 and 11 are the dates. The event is Total Money Makeover Weekend. This is an entire weekend, so a great destination event. It's going be held right here on our campus in our beautiful conference center. What are we doing? Well, you could guess with the name of the event, Total Money Makeover. It's the basics. We're going to help you with getting out of debt, creating the budget, easy Raising your anxiety around money, investing, how to make more money, what does it take to be wealthy? It's going to be a great, great event. We're going to have live interactive Q&A's throughout the weekend, not just the talks, all the Ramsey personalities there. The tickets are going. Move quickly, excuse me, to ramseysolutions. Com/events. Ramseysolutions. Com/events. All right, let's get back to the phones. Kyle is joining us now in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Kyle, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet.

What's up?

Yes. My quick question is, I'm wondering if I should go back to school for an MBA, or I'm really just trying to increase my income because I'm trying to move out of my fiancé's parents house. Okay.

All right. Walk me through the direct line that you see between this MBA and you make you more money so you can move out.

I guess that's my struggle is there's not a whole lot of direction. I know.

Let's walk through this a little bit more, okay? How long would it take you? Goodness gracious. I apologize, America. You just gave me a swig of water. I tried to help. And it did it again. I did what I could. Been talking all week at Entree Leadership Summit. The voice is tired. Kyle, How long would it take you to finish this MBA? Whether we know what we're going to do with it or not, let's just walk through the timeline. How long would that take?

Probably roughly two years, I'd guess.

Yeah, that's not helping you get out of the house quickly.

Yeah, and how much would be, Kyle. Yeah. Have you looked into programs?

I'm seeing if I would… I probably wouldn't go unless if I got this substantial financial aid. Right. All right.

Let's talk about what needs to happen. Just bottom line, what needs to happen so that you can get out of this place that you're living in? What needs to happen?

I'm making, I think we're close to $4,000 a month combined. In rent, as far as the quarter of the take home pay, that's $1,000 is the minimum you can get here.

Wait, combined, you and your fiancé are making $4,000 a month?

Yeah. So now that we're combining finances.

What do you all both do? What do you do? Yeah, what do you guys do?

I drive a bus right now, and she works part-time in school.

Okay. It was a trick question. The The answer to my question is you guys need more income. You don't need a degree. You're in a situation in an economy in the Indianapolis area, very strong job economy right now across the country. You're driving a bus making how much per hour?

About $25.

She's a part-time because she's in school. Does she have any bandwidth at all to actually work beyond going to school and doing the part-time job?

A little A little bit.

A little bit. Okay, so we need to determine what a little bit is. Is she picking up? Is that 10 hours, 15 hours? That's what she does. Then for you, 25 an hour, not bad. That's a really good hourly rate. It's a pretty good hourly rate. You got to pick up a side job, some type of maybe a gig.

Are you 40 hours a week, Kyle?

I just recently started picking up about 40 hours.

About 40 hours?

Yes, it's just under. Okay.

We got to get better jobs, and you don't need an MBA to do that. We need a second job. You don't need an MBA to get that. You just don't. What is she going to school for?

She's going She's in school to be a physical therapist.

Okay. How long does she have left in her undergrad?

She's one year away.

One year away. Then what comes next? Because there's more schooling, is there for the PT?

Well, I guess it's physical or exercise science, so I don't think it's necessarily- Is it her undergrad?

Like a therapist.

Yes.

Then she has to go on to PT school then if she wants to be a PT? Yeah.

Okay. All right. You see where we stand here? We've got a series of decisions that we're going to have to make to allow us to live, and we're going to have to live on way less than we make while we're in this her season of getting educated to be able to be a physical therapist. For you, you're the one with a little bit more freedom here to make some decisions. If you're driving a bus and you're getting paid 25 an hour, my first question would be, can I drive for UPS? Can I drive for Coca-Cola or drive for a beer company where potentially I'm making more per hour? I don't know, but I'm going to look into that to go, I've got this qualification here. It'd be an easy move for me to work for a bigger company where I've got some room to grow. I know a lot of guys start out, will be driving for one of those soda companies or a beer company. They put their time in, and then they work their way up into management. You've got to start to take the future really serious right now while your fiancée is taking care of her future.

We're going to have to make some more money to be able to afford to rent, or we're going to have to live somewhere further away than we want to live. That's also the reality.

And I guess one question is because I have a business administration degree, but when I was doing it, I was just going through the motions and didn't really retain anything. So I'd like to use my degree, but I really don't have any direction on what I can do because I feel underqualified.

Well, you're underqualified because you've never done anything.

It's more experienced, Kyle, honestly, especially with a degree that's more general like that. Getting in the field and actually doing something, that's going to teach you a whole lot more than probably sitting in those classes. I'll be honest. I'm not trying to knock education, but there's a truth that, unless you're going to PT school to actually know tactically, very specifically what you're doing, but a comm major or a business major, to a degree, you'll get some accounting classes, you'll learn some stuff and the basics, but how things really function in the real world is going to come from that experience of you actually getting in there. You'll start at a very entry level. You won't be high up. But as you start, again, having that experience and then slowly moving up, I think is really key.

Kyle, what would you do? What would you try tomorrow if you knew you couldn't fail and it was going to give you a nice bump? You didn't have to commit to it for the rest of your professional life. But you go, I've been wondering about this. I think I'd like to do this. If I knew I could succeed, what would you choose tomorrow?

I'm really passionate about personal finance.

But what?

I feel like I would have to grow my own business.

I don't know where- Not true. To dovetail off of what Rachel just said, she's absolutely right. You should go on ramseysolutions. Com and look at the Smart Investor Pro section. These are financial professionals, personal finance professionals. They're in investing. You should just see who's listed in the Indianapolis area that is associated with Ramsey Solutions. They run their own businesses. They're qualified. They know about everything that we teach. If you were to just find out who's in your area, and I'd start figuring out if you knew anybody that worked over there, or you knew somebody that knew somebody, and I'd go take somebody to coffee, one of those pros. Take them to coffee or lunch, buy their lunch. Everybody's favorite topic is themselves. Be interested in how they got where they are, what they would recommend to you about potentially a career in that way. That right there is going to help you remove some of the unknowns, which makes this feel so intimidating to the point that you said, Well, I'd have to start my own financial firm. Not true. I'd rather you get paid to actually learn the business. That's how that works. There's tests and licensing that you'll get over time.

That's my advice to you, but hang on the line. I'm going to give you the new book. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Take the assessment, read the book. It's a 45-minute book and about a 15-minute assessment process just to verify what is it that I'm wired to do. It's going to really help you. Hang on the line. We'll give you that. But please do what I told you to and go talk to people who are doing the thing that you think you might like to do. It'll help you a lot. Thanks for the question, Kyle. Thanks for the call. Don't move. She's Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation about you with you here on the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. Thrilled that you're with us, 888-825-5225. Let's stay right here in Nashville, where Ryan Ryan joins us. Ryan, how can we help today?

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I just have a quick question. Pretty new to the Baby Steps. We're in Baby Step 2. All we have left is our mortgage and a heloq. Would you treat the heloq Is that a heat lock as just a part of Baby Step 2, or would you treat it differently?

It would be part of Baby Step 2 if it's less than half of your annual income. So how much is the heat lock?

It's 17,000 Okay.

How much do you guys make a year?

I make 53.50. Okay.

So, yeah, I would put that in Baby Step 2. I would just go ahead and, yeah, act like that's just a consumer debt. Yeah. If it was more than half of your annual income, if it was $40,000, then I would roll it over to Baby Step 6 and even look at interest rates and possibly even refinancing and putting it all together. But for you guys, I would keep it separate, yeah, and just work on that as Baby Step Do you guys have savings?

Yes, we have $7,000 in savings.

Okay, that's awesome. Great. So yeah, honestly, I would throw a chunk at that. I'd keep a thousand, throw a six thousand at this. You guys will have $11,000 left to pay it off. And I would pay it off as quickly as possible so that you guys can get back to saving and investing and all that. How old are you guys?

I'm 30, and my wife is 29.

Okay, that's great. Yeah, I mean, you have time, but I would still be pretty aggressive towards this because you guys can knock this out pretty quickly.

Yeah, yeah. And I have a side hustle that also makes about between 10 and 20. We just had a kid, though, so I have to be limited with that. But I guess navigating, and I would just take the side hustle money instead of saving it, just throw it right at the heel-off.

Yep, that's exactly what I would do, for sure. And then any extra money you guys have that you You can squeeze out of your budget and live on nothing and see if you can even throw an extra 6,000 this year out of your regular income at it as well.

Okay.

Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. Yeah, thanks for your call. Congrats on A little one.

Yes, absolutely. Chris is up next in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Chris, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I just had a quick question. I know that you guys have talked about being upside down on loans and taking out personal loans to cover It's a difference. My situation is a little different. So I owe money for taxes, and I was wondering if I could take out a personal loan to cover that, to prevent any further penalties.

Yes, I would. How much do you owe?

It's about $3,600.

Okay. Are you able to pay it off pretty quickly? Do you have any savings?

No. We just started doing the baby steps, so my wife and I, we only have $1,000 saved up, and that's all we have right now.

Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

I make about 55,000. My wife, she doesn't currently work, but we are moving in a place that she can work part-time, so that's expected in the next couple of months for her to get another job.

Okay. When's the tax bill due?

It doesn't say on the note that they gave me, specifically. We just filed our taxes, and then we got this notification a couple of weeks afterwards. It just gives me the total amount that's due.

I'm just curious. I've never had this happen to me, so I'm just curious how much time we- I'm sorry, I misspoke.

It says May 19th, 2024. Okay.

Now, here's where I'm going, because I would try to come up with as much cash as I could. I'm thinking, how much can I sell? Can I sell $1,000 worth of stuff in my house? Can I find stuff in my house where I could come up with a thousand? I'm just trying to give you some ideas here because I'd like you to take a big chunk out of that. You've got until May 19th. I wonder what side work you could come up with. Could you come up with $3,600 between selling stuff and just working like a mad dog until May 19th? That's what I would try first.

Yeah. I mean, I would do as much as I could. Yeah. I mean, Ken's right. But past that date, I don't know, just the IRS and stuff. I'm like, it's just- Oh, no, no.

I'm not saying. I'm just saying up until- Totally. I mean, you can pay the thing on the 19th. If that's what they say, I would be working and making as much money possible to pay that off.

Yeah, for sure. But if it goes past that date, then I would be okay for you to take out a personal loan just to get the IRS out of your life. Yeah, 100%.

You definitely want to do that.

But Ken's right, Chris. I'm like, Yeah, it's $3,600. I mean, if it was 15,000, this would be a different conversation of the intensity. But if you guys can come up with this, do you have other debt?

Yes, I have student loans, and that's about 26,000.

Okay.

Chris, do you think you could come? How much money do you… Be aggressive here. How much money you think you could come up with between now and May 19th, between working and selling stuff?

I think we could come up with a little bit of it. I'm actually in the National Guard, so I'll be leaving for my annual training during most of that time. My wife will be with the kids. I see. That's tough. So it's putting the damper on us, trying to get a second side hustle between now and then. What about selling stuff?

If Rachel and I came over to your house, this feels like a potential reality show. That's pretty good. When we came over, we just started walking through the house, could we come up with $1,500 worth of stuff?

Maybe $500. All right.

I'm just saying. $500 is no joke. I'd be selling everything. But I will tell you, I say this, it's a little easier for me because Stacey's the queen, Rachel, of selling stuff on Facebook marketplace. I mean, queen.

It's fantastic. There's always that meme that's like, I'm going to get murdered at my house for $4.99 for a pair of shoes, and the stranger comes and buy it.

No, I got to defend Stacey's honor on this one. She's always, We're meeting people in the Kroger parking lot.

Oh, even better. That's great.

Because you know how I know this? I'm the delivery boy. Stacey sells it. You know who takes it?

Oh, no, you're going to get murdered.

Not at Kroger.

Hey, you never know. Well. You're not listening to some true crime podcast, Ken?

Here I am trying to help Chris and millions of other people. Chris, just don't die. Now you just spriekeed everybody out.

Don't get murdered. Chris, but see if you can sell some stuff, get some cash. And yeah, make it a goal. Because I mean, 3,600 bucks in three weeks. I mean, I get it. That's like, okay, a little steep. But see if you can cut that in half. Like, at least have a goal to get you somewhere. Because that's part of it, Chris. And you guys said you just started the baby steps. So you're going to feel this intensity, and there's a change that's going to happen for you guys. And you're just on the verge of it. You have your $1,000 emergency fund, which is awesome. But you're going to do things that are uncomfortable and that are odd to you, possibly that feels so weird because you haven't done it before, right? So I would push yourself to have a goal to say, Hey, let's try to only take out a $2,000 loan by May 19th, or whatever. Something realistic, but also aggressive, right? I mean, really get in there. We're joking about the selling stuff, but for real, go look around. Even Uber, I'm like, Maybe you drive Uber for a few nights a week.

You're worried about me getting killed in the Kroger parking lot? You mean you're going to pick up perfect strangers? I don't see the difference. I feel Uber is more dangerous than that.

I'm kidding. Possibly. I don't know. I don't know. I could jump through some hoops.

When was the last time you sold something online to a stranger?

I'm not going to lie. Never? Winston has. I don't know if I have, because here's the deal for me. It's not worth it. I'm like, I would go to a consignment sale before I would sell stuff on Facebook. Not that it's a bad... I mean, You can do it, or I'm just going to go and donate it.

We do a lot of that, too.

Yeah, but I don't know. I'm like, I just don't... I don't know. I don't have the energy. I've never thought it. I'm not detailed with it. But Winston sells stuff, and I'm like, Babe, just throw it away. He's like, Somebody will take it. I'm like, I guess.

I'm like that, too. It's funny. It's Stacey. Winston, for you, it's Stacy for me. Sometimes I'm like, Why are we doing this? Because I just simply don't want to drive a Croger. I'm really comfortable watching golf right now. I don't want to get up. It's that thing because it's odd hours.

For $15 or whatever.

You got to meet so and so. I get that. Trust me. But for people who really you need to scrape every penny together.

Oh, sure. I mean, if you're in a season of sacrifice.

Our friends are the minimalist. They could tell you. There's thousands of thousands of dollars in people's homes.

That is so true.

That's all I'm saying. If you had to come up with money quick.

No, I agree. Tv's. I mean, just, yeah, all of it.

If you're really worried- Porch furniture. Hire an arm guard. Give the arm guard, a little bit of a piece of the sales. Like, Hey, I need you to come with me to this transaction. We're trying to lower our expenses, Ken. I know. But you scared America, so now I'm trying to meet them in the middle. All right, we're having fun. I hope you are, too. Don't move. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. This episode is sponsored by Better Health. Hey, if you're like me at this time of the year, all of the school plays and meetings and invites from everywhere have completely drained social battery. Or maybe you're like some of my friends who are bursting with energy so much that everyone may be telling you to just chill out a little. If you're having trouble navigating mismatched energy levels, boundaries, or finding people to do life with, it might be time to talk to a therapist. Therapy can be a place to open up with someone who's been trained to listen and walk alongside you and help you find paths through the chaos of mismatched energy levels and more. If you're thinking of starting therapy, try Betterhelp.

Betterhelp is completely online and flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no extra cost. Find your social sweet spot with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/delonie. Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation about you with you, your life, specifically here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. By the way, America, today is Rachel's birthday, and we're just celebrating her the entire show. I mean, there's so much to celebrate. So I think you can. Big plans tonight. You're flying to Atlanta. I'm going to drive. Oh, you're driving.

I know. It's a four-hour. It's one of those tweeters. That's always right on the- I know. We're going to be in North Atlanta tomorrow for the book signing. You're going to be in Alpharetta. Then I would hate to drive down through Atlanta to get to the airport because you're already north. We're close to Nashville, so I'm driving.

We're going to drive. Barnes & Noble and Alpharetta. Yes, that's correct. I know where that is.

Mersal Crossing, I think is what it's called. I don't know. Mersal Crossing. One to two.

One to two tomorrow. So it'll be fun. She's going to be signing copies of the new children's book, Second in the Series. I'm Glad for Where I Am. Really fun little book. Great message. If you're in the greater ATL and you want to brave the afternoon traffic.

That in LA and Dallas. I pick some traffic-y cities.

You pick some. Yeah. Boy, you got to really love you to get to see you. I'll tell you that. All right, let's go to Deb, who joins us down at Grand Rapids. Deb, how can we help?

Hi. Happy birthday, Rachel. I had to put that in. Oh, thanks, Deb. Thank you so much for taking my call. Thank you. Okay. I am 62 years old, and I have no retirement, but I recently We sold my house, and I have profited 85,000, and it's sitting in savings, and I don't know what to do from here.

Okay. Where are you living now?

So I invested and copartnered with a good long friend of mine, and we bought my mom and dad's homestead. So I am here, and it is covered. If something happens to him or me, we get the house. So that's where that is. It's paid for.

Okay. So no mortgage, rent? No. Okay. I'm going to just assume that all of that was pretty clean. You have good documentation on that deal. Everything buttons up well with that. I do.

We put it in title.

Okay.

Do you work, Deb?

I do. I work from home. I'm self-employed.

What do you make?

I actually work for a network marketing company, and I have for 24 years.

What income do make?

Now, I make 35,000.

How long do you plan to do this? You said you were 62?

Yes.

What's the outlook?

Well, the outlook looks like I have to keep working.

Exactly, right? I know, right. Yeah. That's not a whole lot of money, even though you've got no house payment.

I know. I have my car that is 15, 6 that I owe on it. And in the baby steps, I have my every dollar set up, thanks to my sister. But one through four, I'm thinking I need to set it up a thousand, my six months, right? And start investing. That's what I was thinking I need to do.

Yes, yes. Yeah, I would get this car paid off with the 85,000 just so that you don't have a car payment coming out every month. I would keep a thousand there. Yeah, and then at that point, I mean, yeah, you'll have around, yeah, 69,000 left. So I would figure out a good emergency fund. Is your living expenses pretty low. I mean, obviously, from the housing perspective, it is.

Yeah, it's about 2,500.

2,500 a month. Okay. And that's for you to live on, eat everything?

It's skinny, but I trimmed out a whole bunch because I know that I have to be drastic for sure.

Yeah, I'm just trying to do some quick math here. So I would probably maybe put, I don't know, 9,000 away for an emergency fund. So that leaves you 60 grand to start investing. So that's probably what I would do. And again, that's a lean emergency fund. That's only about three, four months. But I think that's okay. I think you're in a position right now that no one is dependent upon your income. You don't have kids and all of that that you're having to keep afloat. So I would probably go the three-month route on the emergency funds so that you can put as much as you can to invest. What I would recommend, Deb, is sitting down with a smart investor pro, and Taylor and Austin can pick up because we'll get you connected with someone in your area or show you on ramsey solutions. Com because they're going to be able to sit down with you and actually figure out, okay, where's the best place to invest? Because when you're looking at investing, there's always the rule of 75. It's going to double every seven years-ish, depending on inflation and interest rates. They're going to be able to look at run numbers for you, how aggressive, where to put it, how conservative.

They're going to do a good job to map out to see how we can stretch this money and get this growing as quickly as possible. But I also think the reality, Deb, is, and I think you know this, that you'll be working for the foreseeable future to get to a point where you have a big nest egg that's built up. Because even 60 grand doubling in seven years is 120. That's right. So we want you to be able to... But I think you can do this. I think it may be another eight years or I would sit down and really map it out because thankfully, your living expenses are low, and that's the thing that's- I've got a question about that. That's encouraging. Sure.

I thought I heard you say you're moving into this homestead with someone else. Is this right?

I sold my nice home that I redid, and it was only 25 years old. I thought I was going to retire there, but it was the only house that was done out of the… I have a friend that we invest with, but I have a side hustle with him, too, but it's not making anything yet.

We thought he had- Yeah, but I'm asking, I thought you said, and I could be wrong, is this friend moving into this homestead with you as well? Oh, no.

This is my home. He has his own here. He has his own home.

You guys are just buddies?

We have grown up together. Neighborhood, yes.

You've invested in some stuff together?

Yes.

Has that panned out? Where's the rest of that money? Where's your money gone when you've invested What's that mean? Well, you said I've done some- I invested in the- Go ahead.

I'm sorry. We bought my mom and dad's home when they passed, and then he moved in here. He continued to take care of it and pay the taxes and that. Then I took my inheritance, and then just when I sold my house, I paid the rest of my half off. Then I moved in here, and he moved into another house that was a rental. Okay, I got it. All right.

Got I'm sorry to get us on that. I was trying to figure out if there was a relationship situation, and here's why. Look, at 62, yes, you're going to have to work probably 15 more years. You're already going to be in an uncomfortable situation. I think you're mentally uncomfortable. I think you need to embrace the uncomfortable, and I think you need to look at, what can I do at 62? Can I increase my income to a point where maybe I'm making 60, 65,000? Now is the time, and we are in an economy, Deb. Grand Rapids, I don't know the local economy there, but overall in the job market, there's a lot of opportunities. If you could get out of network marketing, and I'm not trashing network marketing, but you've been in a long time and you keep it. You hit your lid.

Okay, quickly, Deb, before we get off here, you said you used your inheritance to buy this. How much is this property?

It's valued at probably 250. That was the other question. Do I sell this?

I mean, that's an offer. I mean, you'd have to go buy something in cash because I don't want you. I know.

That creates more expense for her.

In that case, I didn't know if it was a million dollar property or something that I'm like, You saw our inheritance or something there. I'll tell you what.

Actually, you know what?

One thing I would consider is if you had a girlfriend that you were really close with, you guys are getting up in age, she's single. At some point, maybe considering selling this homestead, invest the $250, and you two split something, and even though you're going to now assume some rent, if it helps you retire earlier, this is all the thing you need to talk to your smart investor for.

Yeah, I know. The hard thing with that is that it will continue to go up, and I don't want that variable expense into retirement.

She has no expense in this home.

At this point, I may say put, but it's a good point.

I would consider it.

Yeah. Float all this by your smart investor pro because they're going to be able We'll look at even if there's tax advantages or something, because you'll be able to dip into some of... Well, you don't have retirement. I was going to say some of your retirement.

There's only so much that can happen in the next 15 years.

Hold on the line, Deb, and they're going to pick up and direct you on where you need to go to find this great smart investor. But yeah, I'm with Ken. I think upping your income is going to be huge and investing as soon as possible, paying off the car and having that emergency fund. I hope that helps.

Thanks for the call, Deb. Good hour, Rachel Cruz. I want to thank our fearless leader, James and a merry band of folks behind the glass that keep us on the air. Thanks to you, America. We do it for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in life, winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. That's 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by The incomparable, the glowing, the graceful, Rachel Cruz. Why is she glowing? Well, it's her birthday today, and make it sure America knows. She is- Feeling older and wiser. You know who you are? I'm giving you a new name. I'm going to give you a moniker, and you can shoot it up or down. This is my birthday gift from Ken. It is. Words of affirmation. You are America's financial sweetheart.

Thanks, Ken.

I think it's probably true. I'll take it. I don't know anybody else that could knock you off that pedestal. You know?

Yeah.

I'm going I'm staying with it.

I'm going to say it. You like it? I'll be storm, but I need to be storm. I'm going to be kind. You're very kind.

Yeah. Very kind. We are here for you. She'll answer your money questions. I might chime in. I might not. It depends if she lets me. Let's be honest. I'm here to help you with your work questions because if you're winning at work, you got a chance to win in your income. You get better, your paycheck gets bigger. That's what I do. I want to tie that professional growth to financial growth. I'm happy to help with any of those questions. Because we need to get more income many times to get through these baby steps. In fact, most of the time. That's who we are. That's what we're doing. We're here for you. Randall's up in Birmingham, Alabama. Randall, how can we help?

Rachel and Kim, thank you so much for having me. I tell you, I'm a long-time listener, but this is my first time calling, and I'm just honored to be amongst you.

I had a question. I need some more paycheck in my pocket, like you said. Come on.

I think I got myself in a little bit of a pickle, but See, my wife's actually… Her birthday is actually today as well, and I didn't know that Rachel's birthday was today.

Oh, my gosh. Randall, what is your wife's name?

Her name's Vivian.

Vivian. Happy birthday.

Happy birthday, Vivian. Hey, April 25th. It's not too hot, not too cold. All you need is a light jacket. Name that movie.

I have no idea.

I don't know.

Randall? I don't know.

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Ms. Congeniality. We'll get to your question, Randall.

I promise you Randall's never- She She's a little more cultured than I am, I guess. I'm in a little bit of a pinch here. I didn't quite budget the right way for my wife's gift.

She likes nice things, and we've been working the program.

Winston?

We've been working the program, and then all of a sudden, she wanted this nice gift. I pulled out this emergency credit card, and I'm a little bit afraid that It's going to ruin the experience for her.

Okay, hold on. Because I put this- What's the gift?

Well, it's this purse that she wanted. Now, Rachel's the problem that my paycheck's too small. She starts putting all of her outfits on Instagram, and my wife just goes on there and tries to start clicking on all of them. Our budget's upside down.

Are you okay, Rachel? Is this a joke? You think this is a prank call?

Wait, Randall, are you here for real? Hold on.

I'm sorry.

I think Randall's for real.

I'm sorry. Is she really buying? Would you- Well, I bought a purse for my birthday, Randall. I'm like, There's just too many coincidences right now. You just bought a purse? I got a purse for my birthday. What did you get? When I was in LA.

What did you get?

A nice purse. She is a devout. She is a devout I'm a Rachel Cruz fan.

Oh, does she have the Rachel Cruz wallet?

She does. My credit card is back in the back drawer, and I screwed up.

Have you already purchased the purse, or are you thinking about it?

I did. Oh, you did? No, I charged it. I'm giving it to her tonight, and I'm scared she's going to see that bill.

Take it back.

It's not been used.

Take it back. If she's going to be upset that you charged the purse, then she'll be okay if you take it back.

Here's the problem. I can't take it back. It's a really nice purse.

No, you can't.

No, I got this purse. I had to go all the way to Los Angeles.

Okay. All right, there it is. Randall from Birmingham went to Los Angeles.

This is really good. Happy birthday, Rachel.

God, really? That's your husband, Winston. I literally was like this. I was 50/50. I was trying not to disrespect you, Winston Randall. Wow. What an honor. Can I also say- That was a really good impression. That's actually good. I didn't know you had Good acting chops.

Vincent has good impressions. Folks- I bet you could do Ken. Do Ken, Randall.

Oh, gosh. I don't know if I can do Ken right now.

Let me just say this. America- I have to be looking at a picture of Ken. Yeah, that's true. Hey, folks, America, this is the one, the only, Winston Cruz, Rachel's beloved. I did not know my friend. I've known you a long time. I did not know you had those acting chops because you sold me. I was now convinced. Did you know he was calling in? I did not.

You little stinkers in the booth.

I literally thought this was a real Randall from Birmingham. I was convinced because he kept going at it. Now, the Los Angeles thing, that's when I- That's when I figured something. I'll tell you what, my jaw, my cheeks hurting because of the hook Winston just put in. Winston, that's no joke. That's actually very good. And then I started to- She snipped it very first.

I went on pretty hard.

Yeah. When you said about the linking, I was like, someone's making fun of me.

Vivian is definitely linking. Are we allowed to know what purse this is, or is this private?

I was going to get to that part, and I was going to say, Goyard.

It's a Goyard purse.

It's a Goyard purse. I know what it is. I know. It's a very nice purse. I'm wearing a Walmart dress with a designer purse, people. That's what I do.

There you go. You don't have to justify it with your Walmart dress.

I don't know. It's just a nice purse.

Is that really a Walmart dress? I'm distracted.

Yes, it is, actually. I linked it today. You linked it.

I don't even know what that means.

No, it was a very nice gift. It was actually his idea. Vivian already bought it.

Vivian. By the way, Randall and Vivian from Birmingham It feels right.

Something about- I didn't have a job picked out yet or my wife's name, so that was off the cuff.

Wow. Very impressive. We really- How sweet is this?

You were very confident in the lie.

I know. I do have to ask a question now that we have Listen on the phone because America wants to know this, I feel. Did you suggest said purse, or did he know that you wanted it and he popped for it?

I'll let you say, Ben.

I have two ears and one mouth, and so they're They're always listening.

At a boy. So you knew she wanted it. They're always listening. Yep. And you guys were in LA for her book tour together. Exactly right.

They don't ship anything, so you got to go in the store and do the dance.

There's no e-commerce.

Did you take her in there and tell her, or did you get it and then present it? I said, We're going to Rodeo Drive when we go out there.

What did you say? You didn't call it Rodeo. Total Randall fashion.

Randall would say it's rodeo.

That's how you spell Let's go rodeo.

Rodeo Drive, babe. I was like, Winston, don't say that in the store, please.

I am so sad that I missed this expedition. Love you, babe.

Thanks for calling in. Love you, too. Happy birthday.

Thank you. Man, what a prince. What a prince of a guy. He doesn't like doing that thing, but he crushed that.

Man.

Boy, I am gullible, James. I was on the hook with Randall until the very end. I need to wake up, folks. I need a cup of coffee. I'll do that on the break. This This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Kim Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. So excited that you are with us. For decades, Dave has said that your income is your greatest wealth-building tool, and to the extent that you can increase your income, then you can increase your wealth. I'm so thrilled to be a part of the Ramsey personality team and a part of this great company. I'm focused completely on that area of helping you make more money. If you're winning at work, you've got a chance to win financially. The more you win financially to get debt-free, to build wealth, the more freedom you have. Everybody longs to be free to live the life they want to live. And so part of that equation to winning professionally and winning financially is to figure out the work you're wired to do. I've written a short book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and it comes with the GetClear Career Assessment, which is a self-awareness tool.

It's not a personality profile. It's going to measure three things: what you do really, really well, the work you really enjoy doing, and the results that motivate you to actually show up and do great at work. So it's a combination of Assessment and book. Fabulous, fabulous tool to help maybe the graduate in your life, high school or college graduate. You can get it right now by pre-ordering it. It comes out May the seventh. You can pre-order it right now at ramsey solutions. Com/store. When you do, You get the hard copy and an assessment link, plus the e-book and an assessment link, and the audio book and an assessment link. It's three books, three assessments, one price. Ramsey solutions. Com/store.

It's a great assessment. We've known multiple people, even within our family, have taken it. It's really good, you guys. It's very accurate. Thank you. Thank you very much. I think it's one of the best products that we have, so it's incredible.

The bottom line is this. The reason it's powerful is because you are answering about you. You get a mirror and you go, Okay, now I see who I am, and it allows me to figure out what I want to do and where I can do it. So get that at ramsey solutions. Com/store. All right, to the phones we go. Anne is up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hey, Anne, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah. I'm looking for some guidance and help about the potential purchasing a family home that is in my dad and aunt's name, like the right paperwork or the right way to get the right price and without ruffling travel.

Okay, so what's the situation, Anne? Tell me how this came about.

Yeah, so it's my grandma's house. She passed away about four years ago. The house is in my dad and aunt's name. We have been living, me and my family, have been living in the house for the last three years, helping just with snow removal and lawn stuff. We've been paying, not not necessarily rent, but enough to cover the property taxes, the insurance, the utilities. They're looking at selling now in the next, over the summer, probably in the next 2-5 months. We're considering buying it from them and just a little trying to figure out how about the ruffle feathers, but everyone- When you're saying whose feathers would be ruffled because you guys have been living in the property and you're wanting to buy it, you're not expecting it as a gift.

So is there other family that may want in on it?

Well, I think that probably my aunt would like to get the most money she can out of it. So I guess agreeing upon- A purchase price is going to be big.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Has she floated a number?

She hasn't.

No. Have you run comps? My dad mentioned- The area? Of what it would just sell if they just had a listing traditionally?

I think it would list at like 1:30 or something.

We say, I think. How do you know that? Is it?

Well, we live in a small town where pretty much all the houses were built at the same time, and they're really similar. But most of the ones to get listed are between, I'd say, 100,000 to like, some have been up to 150 if they've been remodeled a bit more than that.

Sure. Rachel's making a very key point You need to get a real estate professional and maybe two different real estate pros who can come in and run comps on this and show you, and they literally can print this out or email this and say, This is the range based on real real estate numbers, not your opinion. You're going to need that if you're going to sit down with the aunt because you're worried about ruffling feathers. We're going to take out all opinions here. This is not about opinion. This is about what the market says the house is, the range for this is. Then the aunt, based on that information, she can give you a number. But it should take away all of the weirdness and tension is all we're trying to suggest here. Now we go, All right, this is the range because you're going to get a range. Then the aunt gets to pick a number, and then you guys can go from there. But that's where I'd start.

Yeah. Is anything owed on the house or is it paid off?

Yeah, so nothing owed. We'd be coming in with enough. We plan to pay cash for it, me and my husband. I don't know if that… If we're trying to avoid real estate and that part of it, we think if we all agree, we can probably save everybody a little bit of money.

Yeah, For sure. I mean, I would definitely still have a professional at some capacity. Like an appraiser? Is that what- Yes. Do you know a realtor in your area?

Yeah, I know some real estate people. It If they start to get involved, they won't just expect that they're the real estate agent, or you can be pretty upfront about we just want a price.

This is easier than you're making it. If you know somebody and they're a friend, go look. This is all going to be a family deal, but I just need a pro. Tell me how to run the comps. I'll be honest with you, I actually think you can figure this out on your own. I'm not going to go to the wall that I know this for sure, but I think if you go to realtor. Com, which is actually run by realtors, and I'm not endorsing that site. But if you go to a legitimate site like that, I believe you can run comps on your own. The point is, you need to get away from opinion and feelings when you're dealing with family, and it feels like there's already some fear that this It's going to get weird. We just need to create a very clear boundary on what this price is going to land in, high to low, based on real comps. That's what we're trying to get you to understand. Then it takes all the weirdness out, or it should.

Great. If we end up not using the, are there paperwork aspects? I guess I don't know the next stuff with that.

Yeah, I would probably get a real estate attorney. I would probably just get a real estate attorney. A couple of hours of work. It won't be that difficult, but you just want to make sure that the title and everything is transferred properly. I don't think there would be any capital gains at that point if you just outright buy it from them. Most of it should be a pretty smooth process, so it shouldn't take that much. But I would get some legal opinion around it just to make sure that it's great. And again, when it's family like this, some cases, it sounds like the aunt's going to want every little penny she wants. In some families, we talk to, and they do a family discount because they want to keep the home in the family. You know what I mean? So having all of those conversations upfront and as non-emotional as possible because you want to keep the relationships intact, right? I mean, that's a goal in this for sure.

Yeah, I think that's a big part of the question.

Yeah. And again, and she'll be able... And she'll come away with some money, which is great. I guess her and your dad will split it 50/50 when you guys buy it for what you get. But I would, yeah, I would get a real estate attorney and pay just a couple of hours, probably of their time, just to look over everything and make sure that everything is titled correctly and all of that, the deed, everything. So make sure that that's all smooth.

Yeah. All right, Anne, thank you so much for the call. I appreciate that. It's always best to just remove emotion and opinion when doing any transaction with family, and certainly, in this case, a house.

Because it's emotional as much as people If it's been, it's the grandmother's house, right? I don't know their relationship. But yeah, I mean, people, there can be some things that go sideways if you don't do it well.

Did you have a sense? Didn't you feel like maybe she was worried about the aunt? It was the aunt, yeah. Asking too much for it or more than they were willing to pay.

Yeah, that's right. And that's the other thing, and you don't want to overpay, or not aunt, I'm sorry. You don't want to overpay for... No, it wasn't aunt. That's right. Overpay for it either. So if aunt is like, No, I want to make sure I get 100 grand out of this, so we're going to sell it at 200. Be like, Well, I'm not your buyer. So you don't get emotional on your end either, aunt. Even though you guys have been there for three years keeping it up, you want to make a smart choice for you guys, too, as your family.

Yeah, great advice. All right. The phone number is 828-825-5225. Quick break, and we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me, and we are thrilled that you're here. The phone number to jump in is 828-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. It's Financial Literacy Month, and one of the ways we're celebrating that is taking questions from students at high schools where our Foundations in Personal Finance Curriculum is taught. Today's question comes from a student at Fadella's Christian School. I know that going to college debt-free for your first four years is possible, but is going to grad school debt-free possible as well? Becoming a doctor, for example, would you still have a large amount of debt?

Yeah, this is a hard one. When you get into being an MD or law school, it's obviously a- I can speak to the law school.

I bet you know this? Oh, no. Do you know that you... Now, I don't believe this is true for medical school, but I know for a fact this is true for law school. There are law schools around the country, not the prestigious big name brands, but law schools around the country that if you score high enough on your LSAT, which is the law school entrance exam, you can, in fact, get a free ride. Really? This is an absolute fact. You can take the LSAT as many times you want. It costs you money. I don't recall. Maybe it's 5, 600 bucks. I'll check that out. But you can, as it relates to law school, if you're willing to go to a school that's not a big name, by the way, nobody cares.

Which we'd probably say to do that anyways. That's right.

You can actually get a free ride, full ride based on your LSAT score for law school. I do know that for sure. Yeah, that's amazing. I wanted to point that out. I'm sorry I interrupted, but I wanted to point that out.

No. Well, I was going to say because we find it's interesting hearing people's stories where we talk to people that are like, Yeah, I had my tuition and got cut in half because I did X, Y, and Z, right? Whether it's working for a certain medical group or whatever it may be. There are hoops that you can jump through. It's hard, and they're not out there obvious. You really do have to do some research. But I think doing that front-end work when it comes to a degree that is so high priced, it's worth doing. It's worth looking, or it's even worth taking your time through it. You'll be older when you get out, obviously, because it takes a lot of years when you're doing this thing, especially in the medical world. But taking your time, because what we see on this show, too, is the other end of it. We either see like, Oh, yeah, they got a ton of debt, six figures, but they're making good money. They're going to pay it off in relatively a short amount of time, 2-3 years, which is great. But then you hear the calls where she gets pregnant and their baby has special needs and she wants to be home.

You have no idea. You have no idea what life is going to throw you. Or something happens to one spouse and they pass away. We hear every scenario you can imagine. What happens with debt is you just take on risk, regardless of if it's school debt, personal loans, whatever it is, you just take on risk. All of that is really mitigated when you just say, Hey, I'm going to just go a different way. It is more difficult. I'm not saying it's easy, but I would be looking all around.

Yeah, it's absolutely great advice. All right, to the phones we go, 888-825. 225 Gainesville, Florida, actually, is where Michael is. Michael, how can we help?

Hi, how are you? My name is Michael, like you say. I'm calling because me and my wife, we are looking to purchase a house in the near future. We have around $10,000 in the bank right now. I was wondering if it would be wise to move that money to the high-yield savings account.

Yeah, I would think so for sure. How long do you think it'll be until you buy a home? Do you know, Michael? Okay.

Right now, we're able to save around $3,000 a month, me and her. We have no debt. We pay little rent. I'm thinking saving for a year and see how the markets react in a year from now. But if the opportunity comes before that, at least my money is not sitting in the bank earning any interest.

Yes, for sure. Well, I was going to say, if this was any time, five years or more, I didn't know what your situation was. I didn't know if you guys working your way out of debt or where you were financially. No, no, no. So, yeah, I would definitely move it to a high-yield savings, and I would go online. And what's great about high-yield savings, most of that are with online banks. And you can do really easy research to see who has the highest rate of return and do that. My husband and I, we have one in Ally. We have Ally Bank. That's not a sponsored thing, but that's what we use, and it's great. So with high-yield savings, you do need to know that it is a little bit more difficult to get your money out, just meaning that you have to usually transfer it online from account to checking account if you ever need to use it. But I think since you're saving it just for one purchase like that, I think it's a great option. The rates right now are 4 or 5%. It's great.

I did open one a couple of days ago with American Express. Was the one that actually I liked the most, and it's yielding 4.25% right now. I I wanted to know. I mean, that was a good idea instead of being sitting in the bank.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't go through American Express. I don't know. I don't know. I would just do an online bank, personally, if I were you. Online bank? Yes, that's where I would put it. Yeah, I wouldn't put it with a credit card company.

Okay, I understand your point. Yeah.

So, yeah, look for an online bank, Michael, and I think that's a really great option.

Yeah, absolutely. And congratulations. That's a great amount of savings, and you're on your way. I love how much you're putting away each month as well. It's awesome. You're going to make some real hay. Here's the other side, and I love what you said, Rachel. The other side to the interest rates, which are much higher, is that you're getting much more for saving. I think once people realize that the 2 and the 3% mortgage rates are not coming back for a very long time, even in our lifetime. I just don't see that happening. If it does, I think there's going to be greater economic problems.

That would spur that. What's crazy is, I think I saw when it hit up to 7% recently, it's gone up a little bit. I'm like, It's wild how our perspectives change so quickly, because if it went down to 5%, we would be like, Oh, my gosh, that's insane. For so long, when it was at that point, it was like, What is happening? It's not at 2% or 3%. Yeah, it is wild, though.

That's right. Historically, 7% interest rate on mortgage is fantastic. I know people are like, What are you talking about? But just look at the numbers. It's true. But the good news is Stacey and I have a fabulous, fabulous money market account, and we're getting a really nice percentage. I'm sitting there going, Yay, I love this. I'm not looking for those interest rates to drop at all.

Yeah, on that side, for sure.

I just think that the only reason they would is because we've got a really rough economy. I don't want to see it dip. I don't want us to get into stagflation where we've got inflation going up and a recession happening. We're not far from that, and it could happen. You just don't want to be in that situation.

Yeah, and you brought up a good point. A lot of people have been asking about high yield savings accounts recently because of the high interest rates and money market accounts. They're both very similar accounts. Usually, online banks are great options to go either route. And money market accounts are great. We had that one. We had a money market account for years. And what's great about that is you get a debit card with it, a checkbook. So yeah, you can make some withdrawals from it very easily out of a money market account. Sometimes you do have to have There's a limit of how much you can have in it or even starting out. There's sometimes a higher dollar amount there where a high yield savings, again, like I said earlier, it may take one to three business days to transfer the money from the high yield savings to your checking. But there is no minimum that you have to start with. You could start with a dollar on the high yield savings. That's right. Both are great options when it comes to saving long term, for sure, versus just a traditional savings account. They're really easy to set up, you guys.

Just go online, do an online bank, and it's worth it. If your money is going to sitting there, let it earn 4-5%.

The thing I like about that is that money, we know it's over there, but it is a bit out of sight. That's also good, too. It's like, let's just leave it over there. We don't need to operate out of that at all. I think that's wonderful for discipline, too. Then stacking, stacking, stacking. I mean, anytime there's surplus on anything outside of our normal budget, it's like, I love stacking the cash. Yes. Amen. That never hurts. You know what I mean? Because cash is still king, and the discipline there is great. Anyway, fabulous. I'm glad you made the point, the distinction between the two, the money market and the high yield savings.

Yeah, because they are very similar. A couple of differences, but not really. That's one question we've been getting so much, Ken, because people are looking and saying, Oh, my gosh, yeah, the interest rates when you owe They'll suck. It's terrible because they're so high. But gosh, we're making Historic on the other end, which is fabulous.

It's a great time for savers. Yes. Saving is always good. Good stuff there. All right, we got to take a quick break. She's Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Don't move. We'll be right back. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me this hour. 8888-825-5225. Lansing, Michigan, is where John is waiting. John, how can we help?

Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate you. I went back to school less than a a year ago at a community college, enrolled there, because I would like to, for the future, get into a marine biology. Since that's going to take quite some time to get there, I had another brainstorm swarming idea of, Well, why don't I get into nursing? After nursing, then continue with marine biology because the way that I look at it is that I'm going to need to keep working no matter how I look at it. Next year, two years from I'm still going to need to be working. I'm not making ends meet right now. I'm working two jobs, minimum of 60 hours, maximum about 75 hours per week. That's what I'm calling for, that if I choose to go into nursing, would that be a smart career move for the moment to bridge the gap financially in a job that I would also would like to? I had two picks, marine biology or nursing. I wanted to know, considering it's debt and it's a career. A buddy of mine was telling me, Well, why are you going to get into nursing?

Because that's another career that's different from marine biology because of certain job opportunities. It pays more, and it helped me get possibly to that point of marine biology. What is your take on this?

Well, I got to ask several questions, and then I can give you an opinion. I'm sure Rachel will as well. Between the two, if I give you either one and you get to start tomorrow, which one do you pick? Marine biology. Yeah, that's what I thought. What's the path look like? You know more about that field than I do. Let's play this out. 10, 15 years from now, you're very successful. What are you doing in Marine biology, and what's the range of income doing that?

The range of income- No, what are we doing?

Give the ladder. We're further up the ladder, 10, 15 years are now successful. What is that role? Then tell me the range of income.

Correct. The role would be that I would like to see myself on a boat, study oceanography or fish in the sea, basically, environmental, the aspects of that. That's what I would like to be into. However, that's most of these jobs require a master's or a PhD. A bachelor's, you could get into it, but it's mostly like a lab work. It That does not pay well at all. I've spoken to other marine biologists with just a bachelor's degree, and they're making, let's say, for example, in Florida, they're making about $22 an hour in Florida, and they have a bachelor's degree.

All right, so let me ask you this. Then let's add the master's or the PhD. What's the range of income once you've reached that level in marine biology? Does it go up immensely?

It could range somewhere on the 70, 70 figure. It depends on which degree we're talking about.

Seventy what? And also the background. Seventy dollars an hour? 70k.

Or 70K? Yes, 70K.

All right. Let's call it 70K. Is that the low, medium, or high? End of the- That would be more of the low range starting off about that range? Then what could you get to?

I've seen it as over 100,000, but that's a very low percentage. But there are biologists out there that make 100,000 and more.

All right, you're helping me. You're helping Can you form an opinion here? How much is it going to cost you to get the master's? Then how much would it cost to get the PhD? Give me the two different numbers.

Well, that I have not looked into in-depth with at the moment.

Got to go. You got to find that out. Because I can't give you a really informed opinion here, but I can give you a theory. To me, based on your needs and what you're presenting today, it It doesn't make a lot of sense to just get the bachelor's in Marine biology and make 22 an hour. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I also don't think it allows you to reach the level that you want to reach. I think that was obvious. Is that correct? Correct. All right. Now, you don't know what it's going to cost for a master's and a PhD, but you don't have that money right now. You don't have that saved up either, do you? No. You're already going, I need money. All right. I just don't know if the Marine biology situation for you is realistic in the next three, four years, it may be a 7-10 year play. Now, I'm the first person to tell you, and Rachel knows this, I started into broadcasting at 31, 32. It took me nine years to land the gig, the dream gig. I'm willing to wait that long. Most people are not, to be frank.

If you're willing to wait 7-10 years, meaning you're busting it, you're hustling, you're living on way less than make, you get rid of any debt you have now, and you start saving, you're doing multiple jobs, do I think you could get there? Yes, I do. But I also don't know how much it's going to cost, and you don't either. We got to go get an answer on what's a... And by the way, what's the lowest barrier degree and then master's program? Not the fancy big name, because the fish don't care, and neither do anybody else, how fancy the degree is. Now, let me flip it, Rachel. I'm sorry I'm talking so much, but I'm trying to walk. No, go ahead, Ken. That's what you're good at. I want to walk through this logically. Getting a nursing degree is also expensive. You're probably going to start out somewhere between 60-80 in nursing as well. Am I right, roughly?

Correct. Currently, with my jobs right now, I only make 40,000 with working that many hours.

I agree, but I would rather guide you, and I'm going to guide you to making more money that doesn't require a degree because going to school and spending money you do not have, it's not an option right now. You don't have the money, and we're never going to tell you to go get a loan to then make $20,000 more than you're making right now. I'm convinced that I can help you make $20,000 more than you're making right now without getting a cent borrowed. You're working too many jobs right now. What we've got to do is start looking at the trades. We've got to start looking at maybe some technology jobs that you could learn. You go to BethelTech. I endorse Bethel Tech. You're ready for We hire people, Ramsey Sluiser, BethelTech, who've never been in tech before in their life. It's a nine-month program, and it's less than 15 grand. You could scrape up 15 grand together a lot faster. That's one option is tech. You could start making 75, 80 in tech with a path to six figures quickly. That's just one option. The trades. If you're handy at all, you can go into electrician, plumbing, carpentry, and be making 40, 50, 60 bucks an hour, somewhere in that range.

I may I'm going to be a little bit low on that. I'm just speaking in general across the country. John, you've got to increase your income to stabilize yourself and be able to find a path forward on the marine biology. It's not nursing school.

I wonder, John, too, if there's a way to take your passion and what you love about marine biology, and is there a way to do that that's going to probably look different? It won't be maybe as formal as a role as a marine biologist, but are there sectors of different jobs in Florida that you're like, Oh, my gosh. John, what's your view? I could go and assist, I don't know, a famous photographer and get the scoop. You know what I mean? Because you're able to do what you want to do to a degree without having to have the formal title and working for the formal marine biologist. Does that make sense? Is there something that you could do that is like it, that you still would enjoy and love, but it doesn't cost you to have to and get a PhD in Marine biology?

Yes. There's other disciplines, of course, with Marine biology in itself. But that's the question I've been The answers I've been yearning for to get is that I was thinking, Well, why don't you get into nursing? Because I'm looking at a seven, possibly a 10-year journey here for marine biology. With nursing, two years, I can be earning some decent money with a higher- Yeah, but you can't afford nursing school right now, so you're going to have to wait maybe a year or two to be able to pay for nursing school is what I'm saying.

I'm fine with you going the nursing route. I just don't think it's worth the effort that you're going to have to put into it. I'm with Rachel. Go start working in that field. Maybe you can get a job, make it 35, 40 bucks an hour or whatever. You've got to increase your income, remove any debt at all in your life so that you You can stack cash to pursue the marine biology. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. I'm just saying you're not there yet. It's going to take some time. Appreciate the call. You got some tough decisions to make, but I know you'll do the right thing. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, win in your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in because we want to help you. We want to talk with you. Coach up today is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruz, my good friend, is with me. She's a Ramsey personality, multi-best-selling author, number Number One's Here, Number One's There.

She's got a new book out in her children's series called I'm Glad for Where I am. All of that is cool, but what's really awesome is today is Rachel's birthday. If you've been watching- We're still talking about it. Hey, it's a new hour, new That's true. Would you just let me celebrate you, please? Thank you, Ken. Thank you. If you know Rachel, you love her. If you follow her, reach out to her on the gram and say happy birthday to her. It's a special day for her. She's 36. She gave me permission to tell you that. That's right. There it is.

Thanks, Ken.

What are we going to do for 40? We got four years to plan. Let's talk about it.

I know, a big 40th.

I didn't bring cake, folks. I've already apologized to her. I'm a terrible co-host and friend. I didn't bring any cake.

Hergiveness is abound.

Don't worry. That's all right. Well, shall we go across the pond? Because the screen says that Alex is on the line, and I'm going to try to say this right because I care.

This is my I was been trying to do a British accent. I'm done.

It's going to irritate Rachel that I care enough to try. But I think it's Birmingham. Let's see how you're supposed to say it. Now, people in Alabama would say Birmingham, but Alex says it a little different. Let's see if this is true. Alex, you're on the Ramsey show. How can we help?

Hello. Thank you very much for having me on the show. It's a privilege to be talking to you guys.

Will you say where you're from?

Yes, it's Birmingham.

Birmingham. I said it pretty close. You're so British, Ken. What do you think, Alex? Did I do well for a Southerner?

Yeah, spot done. Yeah, it was bang on.

Yeah, brilliant. Fantastic. Brilliant. I love it. Well, I'm excited to hear you talk. I really am. Tell us why are you calling? Yes.

I was hoping you guys could help me out. My father and I have been having a discussion about credit card. We agree on the first part of the discussion. However, on the second part, we disagree. When we're comparing a credit card versus a debit card, we both agree that if there was an unauthorized withdrawal from the account, you would be covered under the zero liability policy on MasterCard and Visa. However, my dad thinks that with an unauthorized transaction, a credit card would be better protected protected than a debit card. For example, if I bought a suit and then the tailor went out of business, my dad thinks that a debit card wouldn't be protected the same as a credit card. Yeah, so that's my question. I don't know if you guys can help.

Yeah, I don't know in that specific scenario, to be honest with you, Alex. But yeah, obviously, if there's any level of fraud or anything, you're under the same protection. When you have a MasterCard or a Visa logo on your card, you have the same protection, whether it's a debit or a credit. Now, I will I would say to everyone that's listening, if it is a credit card and there's fraud that happens, none of your money has been touched. It's the bank's money because you're borrowing that money. When it is a debit card, it will take time to get that money back. But legally, you will get that money back under Visa or MasterCard's protection. No, I would agree, I guess, with you, Alex, on that.

We're on team Alex today.

Yeah.

But what about if it was an authorized transaction? If I authorized the transaction, but then it went wrong.

Then it went wrong. That they charged you wrong, or what do you mean?

Let's say I bought something and it wasn't what I expected. My dad seems to think that a credit card would be best to protected than a debit card if it wasn't what I expected. So I authorized the transaction. There was no fraud. There was no thing like that.

It's just a crappy product, and you don't like it.

No, I think that would be within the return element. Because when you use the card at a merchant, You have the option to run it as a credit, which is what I suggest people do, because then you do have… It's an easier way of protection versus going through the pin route of a debit card traditionally. From the merchant's perspective, to a degree, it's run just like a credit card.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. No, I think you would have the same exact protection.

It's just all a myth, and it's out there from the credit credit card companies. It's become a part of the cultural conversation, and it's global. This is not a new question for us.

Because you're either disputing, Hey, I need my money back, or you're disputing, Take this charge off the credit card. Either way, you'd have to dispute it if you authorized it. That's right. But in the same way, the merchant would have to, I think, extend the same amount of policy, whether it's a credit or a debit.

Well, that's between you and the merchant because you're saying, I don't want this. I want to return it. Every merchant has their own return policy. But again, it just feels like dad's trying to talk you into a credit card because he just thinks it's safer for you, and it just doesn't provide any more safety. In our position at Ramsey Solution is that it creates a lot of traps for you, and it could cause a lot of harm in giving you a very easy, effortless way to incur debt, to pay for something that you don't have the money for. We just think it's a trap. So don't get caught up in the hole. It's safety. That could be scary. There you go. Good stuff. All right, David is up next in Minneapolis, Minnesota. David, how can we help?

Yeah, I'll just go and see if Are you looking for a prenups were a good idea.

Oh. I say no.

Good question. The only scenario, David, off the top of my head that I would say this is maybe something to look at is if there was a tremendous amount of wealth on one side versus the other. Even in that, we've heard situations of family businesses with voting stock and different things that you want to protect certain aspects of your wealth because it is entangled in other things than just the person you're marrying. In a degree like that, I could see it as an option, but I would say for 99% of people out there, no, I don't think a prenup is a great idea.

Why are you asking?

I was just asking because I've been dating somebody for about a year, and it's probably the closest person I've thought that I could marry, but she's 10 years younger than I am. She's only 24. I'm 34. She's responsible. How much money you have? If I was liquidate everything in my house, probably $400,000.

No, I would not get a prenup. No, that's ridiculous. If you can't trust her with that, you I don't need to marry her.

If you're worried about a 24-year-old, why are you dating a 24-year-old?

Because I've dated a lot of people.

I know why you're dating a 24-year-old. It was a rhetorical question, all right? I'm just keeping it real. Hey, No, David appreciates that. This is dude to dude. You just sit over there and let the dude handle this one, all right? Oh, my gosh.

No, David, don't get a prenup.

Yeah, and if you're worried about marrying a 24-year-old, don't date a 24-year-old because it doesn't make any sense.

Now, there are people with large age gaps that have very happy marriages.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about David, who's so worried about the potential marriage to a 24-year-old. He's got the problem, not me.

Yeah, David, no. No prenup in that situation. I honestly rule of thumb, it's the rare 34-24 combo that works.

Ten years is a lot at that age.

Yeah, but- I didn't say it couldn't work.

I'm saying it's a lot to overcome.

I agree. Hello. It's a whole decade. You got a Gen Z and a Millennial.

That's all I'm saying. You said it well. We're going to debate it during the break. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me. The phone number to jump in is 828-825-5225. Hey, if you haven't heard, we've got a awesome budgeting app. We think it's the best out there. It's called Every Dollar. This helps people manage money the Ramsey way, the way we talk about it on the show here. It works with iOS, Android, or online. You could start every dollar, kick the tires, if you will, for free and immediately, just to get an idea, Hey, how does this thing work? Where am I with my money? Do I know what I have and what I don't have? If you're new to every dollar, we'll show you a long-term financial roadmap. Track your networth, debt-free date, retirement date, baby step progress, and so much more. It really works with you, walks with you in your financial daily path. You can download the free app for iOS and Android, or go to everydollars. Com to get started. That's everydollars. Com, where you can just search Every Dollar in your app store. All right, East Brunswick, New Jersey, is where Cole awaits. Cole, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Hi, how are you? First of all, happy birthday, Rachel.

There we go.

Oh, thanks, Cole.

Happy birthday to you.

I appreciate it. Thank you.

How can we help? My question is in regards to pension and annuity, basically saving for a retirement. I'm currently saving for a house. I'm part of a union that puts away money separate from my hourly rate towards pension and annuity. My total loaded rate, it would be about 27%, my pension and annuity. I'm wondering if I should be considering that when it comes as to how much I'm putting away for retirement. Should there be extra on top of that out of my hourly rate? Also, you guys say to budget your mortgage and expenses, monthly expenses, to be 25% of your income. Should that technically be 25% or should that be part of my total income because I am saving for retirement, technically?

Yes. Technically, Yeah. It would be, well, it's 25% of your take home pay. So the amount of money that you bring home, which would not include insurance or retirement. Yeah. 25% is just really the mortgage or the rent and some insurances and HOA fees and all of that. But your other bills associated with the house would not be in that 25 %. So the 25 % really is just that guideline for the amount of mortgage or rent that you're paying with some insurance.

The mortgage itself, no regards to taxes or homeowners or anything?

No. So sorry. Insurance and taxes and HOA. Yep, all of that together would be part of that 25 %, correct. But any other bills, I don't know if you meant electricity and all of that. All of that's separate. That's not in the 25 %. No. So with your pension and the annuity, is it a variable annuity?

So, yes, it is a variable annuity.

And is that required? Are they making you do that? Yes. They are.

So they do that completely separate. It has nothing to do with what I get paid, really. You don't even really see it too often. You can check on your statements and whatnot, but I disregard it.

So how much percentage is the pension that's going in?

So the pension is 850 an hour, and the annuity is 10.

Okay.

Do you know what- And the annuity gets over time, but the pension does not.

Yes. Do you know what percentage of the annuity? I'm trying to get to that 15 % because I would... Well, for the annuity, I probably would not I wouldn't count it in the 15 %, but your pension, I would say take half of it. So what percentage of the pension is your income right now?

So the only calculation I did was I took the pension annuity and the hourly rate, added them together, and then got what percentage the pension and annuity was, and it was 27 %.

Okay. So yeah, I would break it out even more, Cole, and see specifically what percentage is the pension, what percentage is the annuity, and then whatever that comes out to be Let's just say, because the pension will be less than the annuity, according to the dollar amounts that you just gave me. So let's say the pension ended up being 10 % of the 27 or something. I would take 10 % of it, divide it in half, so that's 5%. I would say you have 10% of your income that you still need to invest in retirement. Because the things with pensions and annuities, how it's set up for you is that you don't have a say, really, in what they're investing in. Giving yourself way more transparency and ability and options is really key for retirement. So you may have to add another 8 to 10 %, and maybe opening up a Roth IRA is a great option, and you can start there. There's A contribution limit. I think it's $7,000 this year. But that would be my next step for you, Cole, is to put some money into a Roth IRA because you'll be able to control what it's invested in with all these other options.

They're going to be great for you. When it comes to retirement, it's nice to have a pension, but you don't have control over what they're investing in. So, yeah, I would do all of that, and then be saving for a down payment. You have a lot going on. Are you debt-free?

I am. Awesome. How much do- I have, maybe... I do use a credit card. I have $200 on it, and I use it for gas to get to work, and then I pay it off.

Okay.

That's pretty much it.

Okay. Cut it up. You can use a debit card. But what are you making a I got promoted about a year ago.

Since then, I made with overtime, 170, and without overtime, my base is about 100.

Good for you. Good for you, Cole. How old are you?

I'm 27.

Nice. Awesome. Great. Yeah. I think that would be my next step, is I would put a little bit more into retirement on something that you can control, like a good Roth IRA is, I think, a great option.

Before after the full saving for the house? Like once I'm in the house, do that, or pre-plan that now while saving?

Yes. So we call saving for a down payment on a home, baby step 3B. So do you have an emergency fund already saved?

Yeah. I have about four months expenses.

Oh, good.

Okay. For my current expenses. And then I have about 100,000 towards a down payment.

Good All right, Cole. Good for you. So, yeah, I would probably... Then I would pause on the Roth, save up a good down payment. I mean, if you can put 20 % down, you can avoid PMI, and that would be fantastic.

I currently am at 20 % for what I'm looking for. I was trying to go a little higher Because I was expecting it had to be 25 % of like- Oh, yeah.

So you may have to put more of it. Yeah, that's right. Depending on what type of house- It's expensive where I'm at.

Yeah, I'm looking at like 2,800. Okay. 2,800 a month right now if I put 20% down, so it's still high.

Okay, good for you, Cole. I'm so proud of your diligence in all of this. So, yeah, if you need to take another year or two and continue to put money away for a good down payment, you can do that. There's really no rush in this, but I do want you to start investing pretty immediately after you get the house. But the house is the next big step for you. So that's where I would focus a lot of my cash flow. So well done, Cole. And let me just tell you in some encouragement for people watching or listening, the The baby steps that we talk about, some people do them out of order, Ken. They do it at their own what they think, and I'm going to this, this, and this. And we tell people all the time, if you just do the plan, just do the steps in order, they work. They work for millions of people. Just do it. Cole is such a testament to that. He's really doing it. I'm like, he's literally by the tea. What's crazy is he is going to pay off his house sooner than he realizes. He's going to be investing.

He's going to have this annuity and pension and a Roth. He's going to be doing so great. Just in a few years, you think about his early 30s, and he's going to be killing it.

He's an everyday millionaire. He's only 27. He's such a head start on most 27-year-olds. I wish I knew the data on that mid-20 about how much the average 20-something is carrying in debt at that point in their life. Oh, my gosh.

No savings. Yes.

Really good stuff, Cole. It's amazing. It's very inspiring. It is possible, and I think you're absolutely right. It is the discipline to withhold early on in life and then not have to worry about withholding much at all later on in life. But I wish that message was more clear. The current message on social media that we're seeing from young people is they feel like they're just working for nothing. They're working just to barely make rent, as opposed to Cole, who's right in that demographic, and he's working to win big time financially, and he's doing it. Again, Cole, thanks for the call and for the question, sharing your story with us. The best has yet to be for you, sir. Really good stuff. All right, she's Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Cole. We got to do a quick break, but we'll be right back with more of your questions. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz joins me. I'm Ken Coleman, and you are listening and watching The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. 888-825-5225 is the number. Stephanie is joining us now in Los Angeles. Stephanie, how can we help?

Hi. Hi. Happy birthday, Rachel.

Thanks, Stephanie. I appreciate that.

You're welcome. Okay, so I am a single mother of two girls. I've been a single mom for a long time now, and I own a business. I'm a professional organizer, and I actually to reach families on how to keep their lives together. Well, I just am really struggling financially. I ended up having to get a full-time job. Long story short, my savings just got drained When I put employees on payroll. Out here in California, it's super expensive. Anyway, I don't know the first thing about good budgeting. I did not grow up. My parents, they're good three times, and I'm just trying to set up a future for my children, and I just want to get out of debt. I need some advice, and I want to sell my car, and that's where I'm at.

Okay, I got a quick question before Rachel dives in, because she can walk with this, but I'm just curious, how does a person who is really good at teaching other people to be organized not figure out how to do a budget? I'm not saying that in a judgmental way. I'm just curious, where do you think the disconnect is there?

No. I know how to stick with a budget. What happened was I was going... A custody battle came up in the middle of everything, and then my dad got early on to Alzheimer's. This was all in a short period of time, and it just threw me for a loop, and a lot of my money went into custody. Then I ended up taking out an EIDL loan, which I've never been a credit card person, a loan person. I actually got talked into getting a business credit card for my business because I was paying everything cash before that. The custody battle happened. I put the whole custody battle on my business credit card because I was I'm really desperate. This is where I'm at. I never coached anyone on finances. I coach neurodivergent families, how to set up systems in their homes, keep their homes functional, and how to live purposely in their home. Good for you. But right now, I'm just in over my head as far as what to do. My economy is not that great right now.

What are you making in your day job?

My full-time job, I make 1908 an hour. It's a sales job. I do interior design, and so we do get commission on designs, but I've yet to reach that commission because their whole bonus structure is just it doesn't make any sense. You have to sell at least $80,000 between installs or whatever. I don't know. I've never reached that. Then my organizing job, I have three contractors. I bring in, right now, it's not really good. I bring in about maybe 2,000 a month with that, but it's just so slow right now. I was making pretty good money. Now, over the last couple of years, it just hasn't been that great.

Then you throw in things like a custody battle in the midst of it.

Oh, yeah.

Well, let me- Oh, yeah.

I pay for everything for my kids. I don't get any help. I pay for the cars, insurance, everything. Wow. Yeah.

Well, let me just say, when it comes to your kids, when it comes to your health, we are all about fighting the fight, right? I'm like, it is. You want to do it. You know, because those are the important things in life. I want to free you and not pile on any level of shame. Give yourself a lot of grace. So, okay, so how much debt, Stephanie, do you have? Do you know?

Yes. I I have my $20,000 EIDL loan. That's our payment. So start coming out in October. I owe almost $9,000 on a credit card. And then my car is... I owe about 13,500 on that. Then here's the really hard part for me. I got behind on taxes. I just got paralyzed with fear, by the way, but I got behind on taxes three years. Those are just finishing up being filed, so I don't know what I owe on that yet. I'm waiting on that. Those are my debts.

You're making 2,000 for your organization business. I know you're making 19 an hour for what you're doing, but how much will you bring home a month with that full-time job?

Each check is about 1,200 and some change after insurance and all of that.

And you get two checks a month?

Each every two weeks, correct. Okay.

So it's a little less than five grand. And have you been able to map out? Are you able to pay your bills, Stephanie? Meaning your mortgage, food, lights, like just- I don't even have a mortgage.

So my rent, I'm actually in a great situation as far as that goes. I live in a two bedroom apartment. It's 1,200. I've refused to move because I'm so nervous. I wanted to get my finances in order first. So 1,200 for rent. Yeah. And then 404 for my car payment, and then, of course, utilities and all that stuff.

But I have not- How much is your car worth? Do you know?

I'm not exactly Sure. I did look on what other people are selling my type of car for, and I saw anywhere from 15 to 19.

Okay. So here's what I would suggest. I feel like for you, Stephanie, a good win would be just a quick win, to feel some level of traction, because you're going to start to make some changes, right, when it comes to your money, and those changes are going to be uncomfortable because you've never done this before. But the fact that you're not underwater on your car, I mean, man, if you could get If you could get- I'd sell it. Yeah. I mean, if you could get 19,000 or something for it and go get a crappy $6,000 car, that takes $13,000 of debt. That's gone. Just gone. And then looking at your credit card, attacking that next, and then the loan after that, the $20,000 loan. Now, when your taxes come back, Stephanie, if you can't pay them by the tax deadline, go get a personal loan from the bank. I would rather you have a personal loan than owing the IRS, okay? So that will be a step. Okay. And what you're going to do is pay off the smallest debt to the largest debt. And again, the car, I think, would give you some traction.

Do you have any savings?

No. My putting employees on payroll just ruined my savings.

I had about- Okay, so you have nothing. Grand in savings. Okay, so you may want to relook to... I wish we had more time with you. I would relook maybe the structure of your company. I don't know if it's- For sure. No, I agree. It may be a thing. Are the employees gone? Is there a company that you just say, Yeah, that you close it down for now. I mean, is there a way to just take that burden off? You're just carrying a lot, and I'm just trying to relieve some margin for you. Totally.

I do not I don't have any employees on payroll anymore. It's all contractor jobs. I just contract. But to be honest, I am thinking about just going back to... Because it is stressful owning a business. I've had it since 2016. It's a great business. We were all around California as far as our reputation and stuff, but I just am so stressed about it. So I am thinking about stepping back just working full-time and maybe taking on jobs by myself for extra income. But as far as selling my car, that was actually the reason why I called you. I wanted to see if you thought that that was a good idea.

It's a great idea. I probably would, honestly. I mean, that would be such a relief not to have that car payment every month.

What is the payment?

What's the car payment? 404?

404.

I mean, listen, Stephanie, how much would you love a $400 raise per month?

I would love to just take that $400 and put it into the rest of my debt and just get my car on.

That's right.

No, that's right. If you stay on the line, Kelly and Austin are going to pick up, we want to give you Financial Peace University. It's our nine-lesson course, Stephanie and Every our premium. It's our budgeting app. Then also, I'll have them connect you with a financial coach in your area, because I know as a single mom, you're juggling a lot. I think sitting down with someone who has the heart of a teacher who can walk through really specific numbers and scenarios. It may only just take one session, but it's better than a seven-minute chat that we were able to have here on the show. But we want to connect you with some of that stuff, Stephanie, because you're on the right track. You're right there, and you got to just start making those steps, and you're going to feel a lot of traction. So we're excited for you.

Jaron, Come on. We're going to take care of you. Thank you for calling. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me in studio this hour, 8888-825. 5-2-2-5, 8-8-8-2-5. 5-2-2-5 is the number to jump in. Our scripture of the day comes from Titus 2:7-8. Everything set them an example by doing what is good in your teaching. Show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us. Our quote of the day from Les Paul, Don't say you can't until you prove you can't. All right. How about that? There you go. There it is. Thomas is joining us in Asheville, North Carolina. Thomas, how can we help?

Thank you guys so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

My father has planned a vacation for this summer for the whole family. I'm married. We have two children. My brother's married. He has three children. He gave us a little bit of heads up on it, basically just asking when the kids would be going back to school, and then he planned this trip for the end of summer. We're right in the middle of Baby Step 2. We should be debt free by, looks like, November. He's paid for the location and lodging and everything. But my main concern is I work like 70, 75 hours a week.

I don't have any paid time off.

My main concern is missing that income while we're on this trip. I was hoping to get you guys advice on that.

Before dad comes to you with this vacation idea, what was the plan? What were you and your wife thinking about summer? No vacation? Yeah.

I mean, we've been busting it just trying to get everything paid off.

It's gazelle intense. Yeah. I'm going to oversimplify it because I think this is the key issue. You weren't going to go on a vacation. We agree with that. You guys are going hard. Man, you're working 70, 75 hours a week. That's impressive. You weren't planning to anyway. Now, dad's asking you to do it.

Wait, that's what I'm about to jump in. Did he ask or did he tell you guys? Well, did he say, Well, That's an interesting part of it.

It was a little bit of both. My brother has children. Our children have never met their cousins. He's really loving the whole grandpa role and wants everybody to get together. They're getting a little up there in age, so he looked at it as an opportunity to get the whole family together one last time and have all the grandkids in one place because my brother lives a thousand miles away from where I live.

I'll tell you what, I'll ask one other question. I want Rachel to see what she says here. Is he paying for everything or just the lodging? Meaning you guys would have to pay for the travel to get there, plus meals?

He He's handling food and lodging because I'll be doing most of the cooking. That's how it's always worked out, if he buys the food and I prepare it. But we'll basically just be responsible for gas to and from. It's not so much the expense of the trip, but the missed income.

That's right. How many days will you guys be gone?

Six or seven, depending on when we travel back.

All right. The only other question I have is, can you… Man, you're already working 70, 75 hours.

I want you to have a vacation.

Yeah, but they weren't planning on it anyway. I know. This is not so much like an opinion. It's advice. I think I would do what you believe is right to do, and I think I know the answer to that.

I don't think you want to go, Thomas, right?

I don't think you do either.

I really do. I really want my kids to meet their cousins, and I really want my parents the opportunity to have all their grandkids in one place because they're both two, five, six, and seven, and they've never all been in one place at the same time.

But?

But I'm concerned about- But what a week of it.

Hold on. I'm going to be devil's advocate.

Hold on. Be devil's advocate. I want him to finish that sentence.

Okay, go. Go, Thomas. Sorry, I cut you off.

We've been working really hard, and I'm just, I guess, very apprehensive about what that month's budget will look like with several hundred dollars missing from it. I don't want that to take away from what the experience is supposed to be if I'm there worried about that.

So have you added up how much money you will lose out on being there?

Probably about $1,100 or so, and that's not counting the gas to and from.

Sure. Sure. How much debt you guys have left?

We've got about 13,000 left.

Okay.

What would it do to your budget? Would it stress you out without the $1,100? Would that make it super tight?

Not particularly. We still have to factor in. The kids back to school stuff is going to be that month and the month prior to that in August.

It feels like it would be tight. Can I say this? Okay. Thomas, you got to do what you got to do. Here's my devil's advocate response.

What would you do?

To be with... And again, this is if you want to, Thomas. If you feel guilted, if there's some weird emotional thing, if Dr. John Deloney was in here and is asking you psychology questions of family stuff, If it was just a healthy situation, I think giving up $1,100 to be with family for one week because it doesn't happen, it's not like this is a yearly tradition, would be worth it for a family situation like that. Everything is paid for. Now, if they're making you pay for everything, that's one thing you can't afford to go. Everything is paid for. And maybe you go half the time. Maybe you and your wife say, Hey, we're going to go for four days. And there's something about living life still, and this isn't taking you guys deeper into debt. It may slow it down for three weeks, the debt snowball. I agree. But there's something about the situation. It feels like this is a death. The situation just feels so unique That it's not going to happen. For $1,100, a pardon would say, Oh, my gosh, go be with your family.

I agree with that if that's what's going on. Thomas, I can't figure it out.

If that's what Thomas wants to do. I don't know if Thomas wants to do it.

Let's ask him. Thomas- We definitely want to. No, I forget the want to. No, here's what I'm asking. You're working 70 to 75 hours a week. Is that to pay off the debt faster or is that to make ends meet? The $1,100 is going to make things super tight. It makes me feel like that's the case when you're talking about school supplies and $1,100.

No.

Hold on. Let's let him answer.

Well, no. I mean, if I was working 40 hours a week, all our basic... Our budget could sustain on that.

The extra work is- It's just the gazelle intensity.

Because we're putting about anywhere from an extra, probably 1,500 or so per month on the day.

Back to Rachel's point. It's a month behind.

$1,100, not not making that, it's not going to make life tight. It's just going to slow the snowball down. That's right. Then I agree with Rachel now that I have the facts. Wow. You didn't let me. I was trying to get the facts from Thomas.

I threw the life raft in Kinsman. Sure, Rachel.

No, I actually agree. I just needed to get to that point, though. That's good. I couldn't tell him emotionally if he was, What's the 1100 doing in this case? I think because the kids have never seen each other before, dad and mom are getting older, all the things you already said very well. Thomas, I'm okay with that.

And honestly, Thomas, take four days of a paid for vacation as a gift of a little bit of rest, too. I mean, you all have been working like crazy, which is amazing. It's exactly- I'm so proud of you. But this is a unique thing, and I- I agree with you.

I would say go. You only got one shot around this globe, and I would do the family vacation, knowing that the $1,100, you're not going to have that. The subtraction of that, it's not going to make things tight to where you can enjoy the vacation. And I also I want to point out, Thomas, I would like to vacation with you because I'm all for buying the food and you cooking it for me. I would like to point that out, Rachel. This guy's great to be vacation with.

It sounds great.

Hey, Thomas is coming. Great. Let's go get the brisket. Thomas, here you go. How do you feel now? You feel like this is the right move? You're going to do it? You got to talk to the wife? What's the story?

Yeah, I'm going to talk to her about it. I think there's a mentality shift that needs to take place because we've I've been doing this since August.

I think it's a memory.

I don't want you to lose momentum either. Just see this as a quick pause, a breather, paid for a vacation, and then you're back at it. But I think the scope of family and cousins and all of that, there's something really special there that I would hate for you guys to miss that out because you wanted to pay off debt one month later.

That's right. I'd make the old man cook one meal for him.

Yeah. Maybe go half the time.

All right. Good hour, Rachel Cruz. Thank you, James Childs and our team. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, I'm And I'm George. And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show.

And do we have a surprise for you?

Yep, we have our very own show, Smart Money Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about?

So much, Rachel. Not enough, and yet too much. We talk about guilt-tipping because tipping is out of control, and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.

I'm glad you're taking such a stand.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about, Disney adults. Why is it a thing?

Listen, some adults still find the magic.

Sure. We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. If you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast.

Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun.

We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say.

We help you out.

So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.