Live from the headquarters Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money. We're going to help you win in your work and win in your relationships. All three of those are interconnected. If you're not winning in one of them, it's going to be affecting the others. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me as well, and we are here for you this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Of course, we're going to take your money questions. We'll take some relationship questions, mental health questions. How about work questions? You're talking about making some more money. Do I launch a side hustle? Is it the right time in the baby steps one through three? What do I do to make more money? We want to take on all of those questions. There's nothing off limits. Maybe we'll take a March Madness call. Do you fill out the brackets? It's bracket mania time, where people who never watch college basketball fill out a bracket.

I'm pretty terrible at the brackets because I'm overcommitted to my Texas Tech Red Riders. I overcommit. I appreciate that. I get delusional. It's your school, man. I just assume they're going to... I'm always stunned that they don't win at all. Okay.

Well, I like that loyalty. We'll take your questions. We always have fun together, and we're not afraid to dig deep. Let's get it started in New York City, the Big Apple. Sarah is joining us there. Sarah, how can John and I help?

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. We are currently working on baby step number 2 to get out of debt, and I'm struggling with the idea. I'm a stay-at-home mom, and so I'm very well aware that I came into the marriage with student loan debt and our card debt. I've also been taken on the majority of the consumer debt that we have on our credit cards. I struggle with the idea of feeling guilty, but also feeling like I'm not doing enough to contribute on tackling this debt. I I feel like I want to do more, but I'm not exactly sure how or where I can even start with that.

All right. Let's take on that second part. I want Dr. John to jump in on that guilt here in a moment. But let's just look practically at I'm not sure what I can do. Let's just try to back into this a little bit. How much time, if any, do you have in a given week that is not related to the very, very, very, very important duties of being CEO of that house?

I mean, I count on him to be with the kids on the weekends, and so I have taken on some tutoring that I'm doing. I'm bringing in maybe like 150 on the weekend. Okay, great.

Okay, so first of all, We didn't mention that in the opening question. You were actually bringing in some money. We could say that on a given month, on a four-weekend month, you're bringing in what? 600 bucks?

Yeah.

Okay. That goes a long way, doesn't it? If I was talking to your husband right now and I said, Hey, man, how's that 600 bucks your wife adding to the pot? How does that feel? What would he say?

He'd say he's grateful, probably.

Probably? Or you know he would?

Yeah, I know he would.

Let me ask you this. How much time do you have during the traditional Monday through Friday that you could give to work?

I mean, we do DoorDash about three- No, no, hold You're not answering my question.

I'm actually trying to help you here on a practical matter. How many hours could you give to making money Monday through Friday? Outside of you taking care of the kiddos and all the important stuff you do at the house. Be realistic.

I would say maybe two or three.

Two or three hours a day? Mm-hmm. Okay, great. Let's just say two hours a day. That's 10 hours a week, and then we've got the week and stuff. What I want you to be focused on, I'm not going to put you on the spot. You don't have to come up with this on the air. But 10 hours a week, what could you do from a skill and experience standpoint? All you've got to be thinking about at this stage is what talent /skill do I have that I can then turn into easy money? What I mean by easy money is I don't have to get a degree, I don't have to go get trained. I literally apply or I raise my hand on social media and I can start doing this. I think if you look at your skill and your experience and you have a lot of both, even being a stay-at-home mom, you have a lot to offer. You've already shown that on the weekends. I would just look to add those extra 10 hours. Don't feel guilty about it. I want to hand it off to John on this guilt stuff, but I would just be focusing on what you can do, and I think that'll go a long way.

But the 10 hours, how do I turn that into some extra money to help us in baby step two, and three, and four as we move on, and keep doing the weekend stuff. But I would keep it that simple. Don't overthink it. Just find what you can do and do it when you can.

Sarah, what's your total debt load of your house?

We're about 30,000 in debt.

What's your husband bring home?

He's bringing home around 36,000.

Around 36,000? I'd like to help him make some more money. You all live in New York? Yeah. How many kids do you have?

We have two, a 10-month-old and a two-year-old.

All right. I want to give you some potentially hard truth because I love you. Is that cool?

Yeah, of course.

Okay. What you're running into, it sounds like, is what you want versus reality. What you all want is you want to be a stay-at-home mom, which I applaud and I love. I think it's amazing. You want to live in New York City, one of the most expensive places on planet Earth. Your husband makes $36,000 a year. For this particular moment in time, that reality doesn't match. So your husband wants to make $36,000 a year, then you're probably going to have to find somebody to watch your kids, and you're going to have to go to work until you all get this stuff paid up. By the way, at $36,000 a year, I don't know if you can get a bottle of water for $36,000 a year in New York.

I'm not sure they can afford the childcare anyway. Do you have family that could step in?

Yeah, that's what I mean. Forget affording it. Do you have family there?

Yeah, I think we have talked about this. We have family in Jersey, so I think that is more of what we've been deciding to look into as a family.

What does your husband do? What does your husband do?

He's a construction worker. Okay.

What's he make per hour?

They get paid on a weekly basis. It's a small company.

Okay. I'm going to tell you something. John and I are up in New York all the time doing media stuff, and I see construction everywhere. I'm not a huge fan of unions, but I know that he should be, and he could be making way more than $36,000. Way more. He needs some urgency. This is less about you feeling guilty, and he needs to feel some what I would call positive pressure from his older buddies, Ken and John. He needs to be doing everything he can. The construction market is the trades. They're dying for people. To John's point, if you guys need to move to New Jersey and be You're the family. It's easier for the kiddos to be watching. You both are crushing it. You guys should be combined income $75, $80, $1,000 really soon.

I don't think you're feeling guilt as much as you're feeling fear. And your fear is founded because you all can't afford to live in the world you have created for yourselves. So something's got to give. I hope he goes, You know what? I'm going to get a new job, and I'm going to get three jobs, and I'm going to get us out of this mess, number one, and I'm going to find a sustainable way for us to live, number two, or you're going to decide, I'm going to go to work also, and we're going to rely on family, or we're going to do all three, and we're going to move, right? But something's got to give because the world you have created isn't real.

John Mayer's song, Waiting on the World to Change, is not applicable here. You guys got to stop waiting for something better to happen and make something happen. Like right now, it's urgent. Get after it. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me this hour. We We're here for you. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. All right, coming up May 10th and 11th. This is a brand new event from Ramseyland. It is called Total Money Makeover Weekend. In this weekend, it's a destination event here at our Nashville campus. This is obviously the baby steps really broken down. All the personalities, including me and John, will be joining Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz and Jade Worsh on George Campbell. It's going to be a fun, fun weekend. I'm told that George and Rachel will be doing a live version of their podcast, Smart Money Happy Hour. It's an event for anybody on the Baby Steps that needs that little extra sense of confidence, encouragement to get through it. As I said, we're all going to be doing brand new talks that are aligned. We're doing Q&A as well. Platinum Plus tickets already gone. Still platinum, some VIP. If you jump on it now, you can go to ramsey solutions. Com/events, ramsey solutions. Com/events. All right, let's go to Minneapolis, Minnesota next, where Dylan awaits. Dylan, how can we help?

Hey, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? Well, I'm just trying to figure out what I want to do for a career.

I know it's a big question, but I just I wanted some advice on how to figure out what that passion might be, and what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Tell me how old you are, and then I'd love to know where you are now on that journey, and then what ideas that you've allowed your brain to think about. It's a three-part question. Hit me with those answers.

Well, I'm 21 right now. I'm still young. I'm working as a server right now and detailing cars in an auto body shop, and I've tested the waters a little bit. I wanted to do landscaping, so I tried that out, and it ended up not being something that I really liked.

Okay. What have you been wondering about lately? Because I know you don't make this phone call without some ideas that have been circling your head.

Yeah. I don't know. I was thinking about firefighting, but I deal with a lot of self-doubt, I think.

Okay, good.

When I think about the firefighter thing, I'm a very small I don't think I really fit the build for what they're looking for.

Okay.

Let's take that on. Let's take that specific thing on, and then I want to pull back for a little bit because I understand doubt big time. We're going to go through a real quick exercise, and I think we're going to get you some clarity. On the firefighter thing that you're a small guy, have you actually sat down and had coffee or lunch with a firefighter? No, I haven't. All right. I want you to do that. That's your homework assignment. Because I I promise you, Dylan, you know somebody that knows somebody that could get you in touch with the local fire department. I'm telling you, those firemen would be happy to take a young guy out like you and let you kick the tires, find out everything about their job, the good, what do they love about it. Ask them what they hate about it. Don't be afraid of that question. Then tell them what you're really doubtful about. Tell them. Look them right in the eye and go, I don't think I'm too small. Let's just see how that goes. You agree to do that? Yeah. All right, now, quick exercise, all right? The world of work, Dylan, can be divided into four areas.

Really simple. There's people work, there's process work, there's ideas work, and there's object work. Okay, let me explain that. People work, what John and I do. We're dealing with people, we write books, we speak, we coach, all that. Then ideas work, that's a little bit of John and I, too. We're coming up with methodologies or concepts or whatever. Then there's process work. Think of somebody who is maybe an engineer, maybe a project manager. Does that make sense to you, the process part? Yeah. All right, great. Then the last piece is the object work, and that is a little bit of what you have tinkered around with. Detailing cars, mechanics. We're building something, we're fixing something. Does that make sense to you? Yes. All right. We got the four areas of work. Here's what I want you to tell me. I want you to tell me in the four areas, people, process, ideas, and objects, if I interviewed everybody that knows you, Dylan, what would they tell me and John that you're really talented at? Which four areas? Which of the four? It's okay if there's a couple. What would they say, Dylan's really good at this work?

What would they say?

I'd like to think people.

Probably the biggest one.

People's the biggest one. Okay, now let's ask you the question. Now, let's forget about talent, what you're good at. You think of those four areas of work, which of the four areas do you think you would enjoy the most? People work? This is just your heart. You would feel fulfilled, enjoy. You would enjoy it. You'd be excited. Would it be people work, process This work, idea work, or object work?

Probably ideas. I like to see what I think come to life.

We're not going to lock you into anything today. But Dylan, that's a really good experiment for you to go, Okay, this is who I am. I'd run that by some people and say, Okay, I love ideas. If I can use ideas to help people, what would that be? Does anything pop at the top of your mind really quick when I say it that way? If you knew you couldn't fail, what would be some type of idea-based work that you could do with people? What would that be? What jumps to the top of your head?

I'd say something to do with helping people find houses for cheaper.

Very good. All right, John, what are you reading? I want to bring you in here because what we've done here is just classic. Let's just get how we wanted Dylan to be able to identify who Dylan is and so that he can go, because he's got a lot of exploration. Dylan at 21, some people know at 21, a lot of people don't. But based on what you're hearing, John, you've heard me do this before. We've done it together. There's something there behind what he chose, this idea of, I like ideas, and I want to help people. He came up with maybe helping people find houses, right?

What are your thoughts?

Well, earlier, there's something behind the landscaping and the firefighting, too. There's some patterns here.

Let me ask you a strange question, Dylan. I heard this from a guy who has a show. His name is Chris Williamson. Chris asked this question, and I was just scrolling through, wasting my life away scrolling, and it caught me. It's worm hole that sway into my head for the last few weeks. Here's what it is. What do you want to want? The question Chris asked was, what if we all spent our energy on what do we actually want to want? Here's what he means by that. If you ask me, What do you want, John? I would say, Well, I want a nicer car because the car I drive is not great. I want a bigger house. I want to get promoted here at the office. I want to get X, Y, and Z. But what do I want to want? I want to want peace in my home. I want to want to build some time where I can just have some reading time, where I've got some time with my kids. So what must be true for those things to happen? So you've rattled off server, you rattled off landscape guy, firefighter. Now you're getting more into counseling and real estate guy.

What do you want to want, Dylan? If you could snap your fingers, and I got this from Ken, you just snap your fingers and you're 29 years old and you have a career and you're surrounded by a family, and little ones running around. What career would that be? What would that look like?

I don't know. It's really hard to figure out. I really want to have a lot of freedom in my life. Yeah.

And You want to help people.

I want to make some money.

Yeah. Here's an exercise you cannot answer necessarily on the air, okay? But we've been guiding you through this process. Here's what you have to answer. Who are the people I most want to help? You said that you're good with people. Those people skills, you got to get some self-confidence. You're dealing with a lot of doubt, and that is a... Doubt, to me, is very simply defined as, I don't believe something good will happen if I move forward. That's doubt. I I think that you've got to answer the question, who are the people I really want to help in work? What's the problem that those people have? Then what are all the solutions through work that will address that problem? For instance, if you were sure that firefighting is it, we would say, who are the people I want to help? People that are in danger. What's the problem they have? Their life is on the line. What's the solution? Somebody like me stepping in a burning home and pulling them out. This is the exercise you got to work through, and you're 21. It's going to take some time to figure that out.

Ken, if I had to go back and talk to my 21-year-old self, I tell them one thing, chill out. Because the job you have when you're in your 40s doesn't even exist yet because YouTube and podcast did not exist when you and I were 21.

However, though, these are the right questions he needs to be asked.

One thousand %.

You don't need to be putting pressure on getting the great answer. What you have to do is use those questions that we just gave you and begin to trust your heart and follow that till you begin to discover things that you never saw before. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. Thrill that you're with us. Dr. John Deloney is with me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Ed is going to join us He's in Los Angeles. Ed, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I appreciate it. You bet. I was calling. Thank you. I was calling because I've been working on Baby Step 3, so I'm getting 18 I've 9% put into my 401k Roth IRA. But I go back and forth. Sometimes I have to take money out of my bank account, out of my savings to cover our expenses during the month. It doesn't happen every month. But I want my six months of... Sorry, expenses. I'm trying to build that up. I'm wanting to know if I should back it all out, stop investing in the 401k until I get that built up.

That's what we teach. What was that? That's what we teach, Baby Step one, two, three, and four. We don't start investing 15% until we get the three to six months fully funded. But I think we need to step back a bit and find out why is it that you are having to dip into Baby Step 3, the emergency fund, from time to time in order to cover your monthly bills? What's causing that?

I feel like my contributions to my 401k are a bit too high, so they're taking out too much I mean- Okay, so that means that you feel like that is the sole reason that you are paycheck to paycheck? No, I believe the biggest reason is I don't have a budget. I haven't for five years since the last time we took the Dave Ramsey course.

All right, so not beating up on you, Ed. That's what we got to deal with.

Yeah, you got to have a budget.

We get the budget under control because you've clearly been able to make some progress. Where's your emergency fund at now as you rate it between three and in six months. You have three months?

I almost have three months. I have $17,400 right now.

Okay, so here's what's interesting, Ed. I want you to be encouraged, but I also want you to have some more urgency because you've been able to accomplish that despite not having a budget for five years.

Yes. That's impressive, man.

It actually is. Imagine, though, John, how much more effective he could be. I think this is all about budget, and then we're not even worried about question that you asked. I think it's about budget because is it safe to assume, Ed, that you have enough money to be contributing the 18% anyway?

I believe if I did a budget, I would. I'd have to cut some expenses that I know I don't need, and I think I would. That has been something I've been adamant about the last couple of weeks since doing my taxes.

All right, let's say you did a budget for April, which you need to do. Let's say you do a zero-based budget. Every dollar is how you do it. It's the greatest tool in the world for it. Let's say you do that in April. If you had a disciplined budget, you knew where every dollar was going, which meant you also cut back on some stuff that you're just not monitoring, could you not get the extra money in the first month in April to finish the baby step? Three?

I feel it would take me 2-3 months, at least. Okay. All right.

My point is that you're that close to having six months, right?

Yes.

Well, we say three to six months. How much more money do you need to make it three months?

Probably another 15,000. Okay.

All right. That's going to take you two or three months. But this is all about the budget. What do you think is the biggest drain on your budget right now, if you had to guess? Because I don't think you actually know.

I believe little expenses like streaming services, they add up and maybe not eating out as much. We have cut back on that. Then everything else is just a question mark. But I know there's stuff I'm not considering.

Well, here's the way we play the baby steps out. Technically, to the letter of the law, then you would stop. You would stop until you get your house in order, until you complete baby step three. If you were to pause the 401k investing starting next month, that would free up a sizable chunk of change for you to allow you to finish baby step three. If you want it to be six months, then it's six months. At that point, then we just come back online with the 401k investing. That is technically how we do it.

Here's what I like that for Ed, Ken. Ed, I can tell you have a thing about investing.

Yes, starting late.

You cutting it off, it would force you. In behavior change, we want to reduce friction in the behaviors that we want to do more of. We want it to make it easier to eat healthy, so we only have healthy foods in our house, and we want to put hurdles in front of those behaviors we want to change. It's going to make you mad. Not mad, angry, but mad like, coo-coo, to not be investing and then to see your family going out to eat again. I have a feeling you follow the baby steps to the letter, you stop investing. By the way, investment is a gift for future you. An emergency fund is a gift to present you, to right now. If right now you is not okay, then future you doesn't have a chance. So get your emergency fund built up so that you can be okay in the present and you can take care of yourself You can start planning. But that idea of you not investing is going to drive you bananas. You're going to watch every dollar like a Hawk to get that emergency fund so you can start investing again. I like it in your case.

I mean, it's the way we teach it, but for you especially, I love you walking in tomorrow into your office and getting with the HR person, cutting it off, and then you sit down with your wife tonight. We're going to give you Ramsey Plus. We're going to give you FPU. We're going to give you a year subscription to every dollar. Perfect. So you and your wife have to sit down and do a budget together. Actually, you don't have to. You can let it just waste. But sit down and do it. I'm giving you the tool, the best tool on the market, and go in there and put a hurdle in front of yourself. Stop investing until you get this emergency fund paid up, and you're going to get there real, real quick. I promise you.

So do I do the match? They match 5% or is that completely fine?

No, pause everything. No, pause everything.

Get crazy about getting your family safe. Your family is still not safe. You all got out of debt. But one thing that goes sideways, you're an air conditioner or a roof away from having zero money.

Yes.

We're talking 2-3 months, Ed, right? Yes. All right. So what we're doing is we're doing a forced pause. As John laid out for you beautifully, but that's now We found you some money right now. You pause it today, by the way. I'd call HR before the day's out. You're a couple of hours behind us. No excuse. Pause it today. You pick right back up after you would get the Baby Step 3 finished. But here's the deal. You got to get a budget anyway so that you can make hay in other areas or else you're going to be in the same boat. I'd hate for you to get Baby Step 3 fully funded. Go back to all the investing again, and you're still living paycheck to paycheck because you're not watching your money. Then you're having to dip into an emergency fund for a non-emergency.

For a restaurant. Come on, man.

Or you just don't have money for vacation because you haven't been using your money wisely. So, Ed, we're trying to force some change here, but you can fix this pretty quick. You're not going to fall behind. The two, three months, by the way, whatever gland is freaking out right now, it's going to be okay. You know what I'm saying? Thank you. Yes, sir. All right, buddy. This is about changing the behavior, John. I love what you said there. I think that's a really good point. He's going to be He's really uncomfortable not seeing his 401k account.

Oh, man.

One of his kids is going to ask, Hey, dad, can we go to Sonic?

And he's going to. He doesn't put a stop to that real quick, man, because that 5% match, that's somebody else's money. It's just not going to be going in your account because you didn't do the stuff you need to do ahead of time. Let's get it knocked out. I think it's going to change his behavior real fast.

Yeah, it really is. Wow, wow, wow. Unbelievable. Again, if you're new to us, you're hearing the Baby Steps one. Just a real quick review. Baby Step one is we want you to get $1,000 in a savings account for your run-of-the-mill emergency. Then baby step two is we begin to tackle debt. That's your smallest debt all the way up to the largest debt. We want to get momentum. Baby step three that you heard us talking about, that's three to six months of your complete budget living expenses in the bank as an emergency fund. After that, you begin to invest 15% of your income. Those were the steps we're talking about. The reason we laid it out that way, and Dave Ramsey figured that out after counseling thousands of people, now it's hundreds of thousands, is that's how you create financial momentum and behavior change at the same time. If you're new to it, check out Total Money Makeover. Get to ramsey solutions. Com. Click Get Started right there. You're going to begin to see where you are in the process. All right, quick commercial break. Got to pay some bills. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

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The Ramsey Show continues, and we are thrilled Well, that you've joined us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Taking your money calls, any work, professional income-related calls, and mental health and relationship calls, we take it all. We're thrilled to be able to serve you that way. 888-825-5225. Jeremy is up next in Baton Rouge. Baton Rouge for the rest of you. Jeremy, how are you?

I'm doing well, Ken. How about yourself? I'm doing well.

I'm having too much fun with the place you live, but you got to say it a little bit more exciting every once in a while. Oh, absolutely.

It's a great place.

How can we help today?

I'm working on my PhD, and I'm part-time in it right now. It's a 90-hour program at the university, and I'm trying to determine whether or not this is actually worth it. I've been in the program since 2000 and cash flowed the whole degree myself. I'm feeling like I'm in a rut and I'm trying to figure out, I'm close to retirement. Is this really worth the headache and- What's the program? Putting on our family? Leadership and Human Resource Development.

Now, why did you get into it? Where did you think it was going to take you?

Well, I was expecting to be able to advance into the fire chief role in the local area, but it's not going to happen here. I have to go elsewhere and tell you the truth.

Is that an option?

Not really, no.

If I'm understanding this right, we pursued this PhD for a very specific role, and that's not an option. That's done. Right. How much do you have left?

About 30 hours.

How long would that take?

Probably another three plus years.

Well, John's answer may be different than mine, so I'm going to go first because mine's quicker. I am a guy who believes in degrees for one reason and one reason only. It is the only way for me to do the thing that I want to do. Now, let me say as a caveat, if you want to go get a PhD just for your own personal accomplishment, I got no problem with that either. But when I look at this situation, this is a clear no for me. I'm not going to just continue to sink time and money into something that has zero return, zero at this point. I would cut my losses. I don't know what John thinks, but that's where I'm at on it.

I mean, this is a rare moment, but I 100% agree with you, Ken. Jeremy, you're talking about three years of your life, and that's 30 hours at part-time. That's six, four. That's being real generous if you take two classes a term, and then you got to write a dissertation. That's another year.

Right.

How old are you?

49.

Hard pass. My Now, mom finished her PhD at 53, but she had a very laser-focused career trajectory. Are you in love with human resources, or do you want to be a human resources professor?

Not at all.

Yeah. No, I think it was a one-shot deal.

I was doing it for the leadership purposes.

Okay. Do you have an opportunity, and a lot of doctoral programs will do this, if you go sit with your advisor, they will off-ramp you with a master's degree after you already got 60 hours? Because most master's degree programs are 45 to 60 hours. Would they do that for you or do you already have a master's?

I've got a master's already, but I'll finish their master's program in December.

I would finish that and say, Nara.

Roger that. I agree. Now, can I dig a little bit, Jeremy? Sure. What's going on there in Baton Rouge with this? You got a lid on you. What are you comfortable sharing? I don't want you in any way, share anything that you're not comfortable with, but where's this lid? And answer that first, then I got a follow-up.

Lid meaning- Why this is not a- What's keeping me here?

Why this option? Why the chief, the thing that you went after, why it's not an option?

Everyone that they put into the positions are very young. Before they retire, I will be long retired.

I see.

You're 49.

Yeah, that's young, brother. Yeah.

I'll retire in four years.

Then what are you going to do? Yeah, that was my follow-up question. What's next?

Because you can't just retire and do nothing.

Consulting was what I was looking at. The only redeeming factor in this whole PhD program is being able to go into consulting and organizational development. Great.

I think the master's is enough, man. I think Somebody who's as sharp as you are, a retired firefighter. You were in some type of a leadership role, correct? Right. Yeah. I mean, dude, you got a great resume, and you got a master's degree.

You got two of them. Have you started consulting yet?

No, not especially.

Here's what I would do. To give yourself a peace of mind, you're 60 hours in, you're two-thirds. I think Ken and I both think we're both right. I mean, I've just sat with too many doctoral students over the years that get halfway through, and they're like, What am I doing? Everyone just kept saying, Keep going. So I just kept going. I don't want to be here. I don't like this. I don't like the trajectory. I don't want to sit in a classroom or a research lab for the rest of my life. I want you to actually consult once.

Yeah. Even if it's free, by the way.

Yeah, it sounds like a scam. It sounds like, Oh, dude, you just get like... There's a great on New Girl once. He's like, My girlfriend's running this awesome scam called Consulting.

I love that you even know what New Girl is.

I love that show. It's like Blue Oyster Cult, New Girl. Those are my two favorite things. But listen, either you're going to be all about it or you're going to think, Oh, dude, I don't want to sit here and listen to someone else's problems and help people solve problems that they don't really want to solve. Some people are wire-flat, some are not. Before you go spend four more years of the best years of your life, transition out of a job you love into, and you're going to be losing a brotherhood, and so you're going to be rudderless, and you're going to be wondering where to go, and sometimes getting in a room with a computer and saying, I'm a consultant now. I mean, it's a a hollow run of it for a while. Go try some consulting on the side, like Ken said, even for free. Give it a shot for a minute. Then if you love it, and they're like, Dude, if you had a doctorate, you could do anything. Okay, cool. Fire it back up.

Yeah. Jeremy, I want to ask one more question on this. Sure. Why did you want to be the chief?

I'm asking myself that on a regular basis. It was one of those things that I was told that I was going to be a good leader and would be able to run the department. I've been told over the years, it's not going to happen.

All right, so let me ask you this. I was digging for something. I may have found something I didn't think I was going to find. Did you want to lead because you were told that you would be a good leader, or did you want to lead because you wanted to lead?

I wanted to lead. Okay.

That's what I thought. I can hear the disappointment. Can we be honest? It's pretty disappointing and pretty hurtful. You feel like- Oh, yeah. Okay. Can I just tell you everything John said is right about consulting. We agree 100%, but I think you need to realize that you want to lead. I think a 53-year-old retired leader in the fire department is going to be really attractive in the Baton Rouge area leading in any number of companies. I think you ought to start kicking the tires now, having conversations now, showing up at business meetings, showing up at business mixers, start getting connected out and saying, In three years, I'm punching the clock out at the fire department. I want to lead people. I've been leading. I got a master's in this. I got a master's in that. I want to lead. My friend, I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, and I want you to read it and do it. But I think that consulting, sure, try it, kick the tires. But I think you ought to tell as many people as possible that you want to continue to lead at 53 and take everything you want.

Because I think you want to lead, don't you, Jeremy?

Absolutely.

So my friend, this is great. You're going to collect a fireman's retirement pension or whatever it is you got. I think you got a lot of years of leading, and I think you need to give it everything you got and find a place to lead. There's a lot of transferable leadership, skill, and experience that you're bringing to the table. This nation, this world is starving for good leaders, and I think Baton Rouge is going to be a very nice place for you. Hang on the line. I want you to read the Proximity Principle. I want you to get around people that are leading currently, that are hiring leaders. Hang out with guys that are going to leadership conferences like Entree Leadership Summit. Start listening to Leadership Podcast. I would begin to completely surround myself with all things leadership, and you watch what begins to appear right before your very eyes. Thanks for the call, Jeremy. You're going to get there, man. Be encouraged. John, great advice. Great hour. I want to thank James Childs, our fearless leader, and his merry band of men behind the glass. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show.

It's where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win with your money. We want to help you win with your relationships. We want you to win at work. That's all done through just practical, hope-filled advice that has worked for decades. We're here to help you. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me. The phone number is 888-825. 8-5-2-2-5, 8-8-8-2-5-5-2-2-5. If you're brand new to the show, and we hear about it all the time from our amazing team, people joining the program all the time, either from YouTube, podcast, Series XM, radio, however that you are joining us, we want to say thanks. You're welcome. John and I are here for you. Love helping and coaching people. We're messes, too. No shame in your game today. We want to help you. If somebody's been listening and watching and you go, Man, it's nerve-wracking. I I get it. Trust me, our nerves are wracked. Hey, join the club. We want you to feel free to reach out today. That's your invitation. Please join us, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Baltimore, Maryland, where Greg is waiting. Greg, how can we help?

I recently purchased a car, and I think it's a mistake.

Give us some evidence that makes you think it's a mistake.

Well, it's Mercedes.

It's very luxurious.

I feel like the gas is premium.

That's a fact. That's not a feeling. I've got one of those. It's a little extra. How much did the car cost? 17,000. 17,000. All right. Did you take a loan out on it?

I did because I didn't have a check at the dealership, but I'm I'm going to pay it off as soon as the first bill comes.

You've got the 17,000 in the bank? Yes. Okay, great. We're off to a decent start here. How much money do you make?

Our household is about 160.

I got great news for you, Greg. That car's not too expensive for you.

Yeah, what's your hang up, dude?

What's going on? Not to mention you actually have the money in the bank. You've been disciplined enough to save it up. What's making you think it's too much car?

What car is it? It's a really nice car.

What year is it?

It's 2013.

Bro. All right, listen.

What model? Hold on. It's an 11-year-old car. I know. Hold on. I'm going somewhere. What model is it?

It's a C300.

Dude, I got the 2013 C250. That's not too much car. It's a great little car.

Did you grow up with not very much, Greg?

Yeah, we were pretty poor.

Yeah. When you grow up that way, sometimes Sometimes, those people drive Mercedes, not folks like us.

Yeah.

Then you put those people into a category of bad people.

No, it's not bad people. I just feel like I don't deserve it.

Okay. Yeah, you got to stop with that nonsense.

Yeah. You know what, Greg? Is it that you don't think you deserve the used 2013 Mercedes, or is it that you think you're being irresponsible?

Yeah, maybe that's it.

That's what I'm hearing. I don't want to necessarily hang that on you, but you started talking about, Oh, it's 17,000. I think he's finding a reason to break up with a car.

You're dating somebody in high school.

Because he thinks he's being irresponsible. That is $17,000? Where I come from? That's what I think is going on. Am I right, Greg?

Yeah, something like that.

Most of the calls we take with people in your situation on this show make $150,000 and they've just bought their third Tesla.

Or a $75, $75,000 truck. We got that call yesterday. Yes.

When it comes to the number, you are showing incredible restraint and discipline by buying a $17,000 car and by buying a used car where somebody else has paid all the depreciation on this thing. If you don't like it or don't want it, sell it. That's true.

Who cares? How many miles it have on it?

Seventy-sevent thousand.

Yeah, here's It's interesting. I got mine, a steal of a deal. I bought it from a dealership, and an old couple had just turned it in. I think I got it with 40,000 miles. So it was practically a brand new car. You remember what I meant? Here's the thing about the Mercedes. The only thing I would say, because I'm watching it, the The repair bill is high, huh? I just put brakes on it. Just a normal maintenance.

They're proud of those breaks.

It's everything on the Mercedes they're proud of. What I would tell you, Greg, is that a part of this purchase, you've got the 17 to pay it off, but you do need to understand that, yes, your gas gas bill is going to be more. Everybody else is excited about gas dipping in the threes, and I'm always like, because, again, it requires the premium gas. You feel me, don't you, Greg? Yeah. You're also looking at the inflation that is always there with any car that requires premium gas. You also are looking at it's a lot more expensive to take care of. However, that car, the reason I got that car is it was a great deal, but it's also going to go to my kids. If I take care of that, which I am- It'll last forever. I plan for a Mercedes will run forever if you do and you save in a sinking fund. You need to have a budget item in your budget for that car so that when you got to pop 1,500 bucks for breaks, you're still going to have some anacid issues, but you've got the money. Does that make sense, Greg?

I do want to prepare you for that because that's something that I have to think about.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Well, can you do that?

Yeah, I can do that.

I know you can. I wanted you to hear you say that you can do that.

Okay.

But I think you need to say, Is it okay? John, I still think he's dealing with. He thinks he is just high, fluting, just pissing money away. They're I love people drive Mercedes.

I wanted you to say whatever you and your household have done, you all work your butts off, you're doing good, you're paying cash for cars, you are making six figures. You all are doing great, man. You may need to lean into this new identity that you have, this new world where I work hard, I get rewarded for the hard work I put in, and we're extra generous, and I buy 10-year-old, 11-year-old used cars, but when I do, I get a nice one.

That sounds great.

Or, dude, here's the other thing. I'm not a Mercedes guy. I'm an old beat-up truck guy. Okay. Right? So that's fine. It comes at a cost. I look ridiculous in the truck I drive sometimes. It's silly. And also, that's all right. See what I'm saying? So if you're going to lose sleep over it, then sell the car. But if it's an identity thing, that's your new thing to work on, okay? Because you're a good man who worked hard and, bro, 11-year-old used cars. You're fine.

Get it, man. All right, John, I got to flip the tables on you here. Okay. What about your Texas upbringing, Texas tech pedigree makes you think that you don't deserve more than a beat-up truck?

I actually do. I went to... I don't know if it's a deserve, but I think it's okay. I went to buy-Of course, it's okay. I saved up, went to buy it, and to get me a brand new Tundra. I went to the dealership, got all worked out, and I just couldn't do it. I came I'm home with a Highlander. A great car. It's a great car. Good car. Good for grocery, carrying. Why did you do that? I just wasn't in a place psychologically to do it yet. I will one day, but I just wasn't there yet. All right. See, I like turning the tables. I'm not going to fight myself on it, but I do know, Oh, this is This is an achy point for you, John, because me growing up, those people drove the new trucks. Yeah, and that's interesting. In our house, we didn't do things like that. Well, that's for me to work on.

I had the same issue. I was like, What? You're going to pay that much for gas? I think my old man is still freaking out about it when I told him what I have to pay for gas. But it is what it is. Good stuff. Hey, thanks for the call, Greg. You're in great shape, my man. Enjoy that, Benz. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me, and we are here for you, 888-825-5225. Okay, we got a brand new event. This is breaking news here. We never do breaking news on the Ramsey show. James, I just felt like saying it because I do TV, I do this, and I've never said breaking news. So we've got some breaking news. Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials is a brand new It's a deep dive into how Dave invests himself and thus how he teaches investing. And this is the first time ever. It's why it's breaking news, James. First time ever. So this is going to be really, really fun. He's even going to include how he buys real estate. I think at this point, we could say Dave's a real estate baron, can't we, John?

He's a mogul.

Oh, that's even bigger than a baron.

I think that's- I think that's probably right.

Sounds bigger. We don't know. We'll look it up. James will Google it. But we know that the audience is He's always asking us all the time. We want more investing advice, investing, investing, investing. So we said, All right, leave us alone. We're going to do it. Here it is. Here are the details. This is an online event, two nights. It's a virtual event. You can watch it in your pajamas at home or however you want to watch it. May 21, 22. May 21 and May 22. Our very own good buddy and colleague, George Campbell, will be joining this event as well. They're going to start with the basics and go deep all the up into mutual funds, real estate, and more. So tickets started at $199 for the new Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials event, ramseysolutions. Com/events. That's where you go to get your tickets, ramseysolutions. Com/events. So that's going to be fun. Don't miss that. All right, now we go to Kansas City, where Sheila is joining us. Sheila, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you, John. I loved your last book. And Ken, I need some career advice. All All right, go. All right. My question is really about where I go from here. I recently left a relatively lucrative career in order to have more time with the kids. I was traveling a lot, but we are on baby step six and trying to pay off the house. Awesome. So interested in getting your advice on if I go and find another job like it, or I have my real estate license, and if I should go back into real estate. I did that a couple of years ago, and it also turned out pretty well.

You sound like a rock star, first of all. I'm very excited to talk to you. I feel like it might give me some type of glow here because you're a rock star. You were successful in real estate, and then you were successful in whatever this lucrative career was that you left. What was that?

I was a senior director for a large makeup company, and so I sold wholesale, really, but I was a leader of a real team.

Got you. You're a sales rock star? Yes. Yes, I love that. How much were you making?

I was making 185 plus a 30% bonus.

How much are you loving this season of stepping away from all that hustle and being at home?

It's a little anxiety-producer. You're not going to lie. I love my kids, but I First week was spring break, and that's a lot.

Okay. This is why I'm asking here, because you were super successful. You step away, and we're on baby step six, and now you're like, Okay, should I go back to work? It feels like you're looking for permission to say, I don't think I want to be a stay-at-home mom. Am I right or wrong?

You are right.

Okay. So A, you don't need our permission. Right. Granted. And John, you're chomping it.

I did it either way without your permission, so I definitely jumped in headfirst.

Here's my one... I always want to be careful when I'm talking to women making this shift because I know that there's the Western guilt factory that no matter what decision you make, it's the wrong one. That's right.

Correct.

But is there any chance, way deep down, that you use time with kids as an excuse to get off the train of a job you weren't really into anymore?

I think, well, my youngest is going to kindergarten, so it was definitely like, I have this time, I can use it or lose it, and everybody says, You don't get these years back.

I don't care what everybody says. What about you?

I mean, there are things I loved about my job. There are things I did not like about my job, so I don't think this particular one is the right fit for me. It's also like 75% travel, up to 75% travel, which with little kids, it's just not terrible. Perfect.

What I'm getting at is, if you wanted to quit your other job because it's 75% travel, quit that job all day long. I did.

Right.

But he's saying- But don't put it on your kids to carry because then you get this weird guilt thing that is unnecessary. If that's not the right job for you, cool. Spend a few months at home, regroup and recalibrate and spend those precious days you don't get back, et cetera, and then find out, Okay, here's what I really want to do. Because as someone who's good at sales, you can literally work anywhere. Anywhere.

Yeah. I thought so. Just looking around a lot of the jobs I've had to either have to live in San Francisco or New York. But I did the Zoom thing for two years, and I love the in-person interaction. That leaves itself to real estate. But I also did real estate for five years, and that didn't really... I don't know. It wasn't it for me either.

I'm not quite sure where to go from there. All right. Now we can focus on that part. But I wanted to get to this other stuff first, because I think you need a little bit more time at home. I agree with John. Also to know, was it just spring break, and that was a little bit too much for me in re-entry.

Let's just get into- You also jumped into, yeah, you swan-died into the frying pan.

Yeah. I'd like to see you not just take some time to be with the kids, but also to go, Well, wait a second. Do I like this new role? Let's stop making it about, Well, baby, step six, and I could go earn more money. I just want you to sit for a season because you can, correct?

Yes, I can. But also, we've saved up a fair amount. We just recently became Networth Millionaires, which is very exciting. I would like to keep it that way. And watching the account tick down is very stressful for me.

Okay, I get that. But again, we're not talking for six months necessarily. We're just saying, I want I want you to just sit because here's the deal. We got to figure out what's next for you anyway, and I'm not so sure. That's why you called. You're like, Ken, what's that thing for me? I think it's going to be easy for you. You ready? You ready to answer? I want you to answer right off the top of your head. You got it? Yes. All right. You've been very successful. You've been very successful in multiple things. What's the thing that you think about? You go, I think I can do this. If we didn't have to think about for just a moment, San Francisco, New York, wherever, you Sheila just said, I'd like to take a shot at this. The professional Sheila still wonders, Could I win at this? What's that thing that's answering right now? It's at the top of your head. What is it?

I'd love to tell outdoor gear and work with design and creating something that makes people's lives better and helps the Earth.

Now see, that's very personal to you. Yes. That's lifestyle value stuff, yes?

Yes.

Then that's what I would be angling towards.

It's Patagonia. That's REI. Can you go get started at a local store and work your way through there as the seasons change in your life?

I could, but again, it's hard to go from making- It is. $17 an hour to 17 an hour.

Yeah, but you quit that job. You You did that job. It was cool while you had it, and it served a role to get you to millionaire status. Now it's time to do something that's got more time with your family, that's not going to take as much brainpower, and you can still work towards your mission, right?

I appreciate that, John. Yes, well- But that's not who is. Sheila, I'd rather you take some time and hold out and let's go look for a role with those companies. I'd be starting in your area. Don't just assume that some great company is not there in Kansas City. I'd start there and work my way out.

I'd also be really interested in getting into net zero building and developing. But again, two totally different career paths.

Doesn't matter. Hold on a second. See, that's what I love. Those are two options that you need to explore in the days ahead. Because as long as you are selling, right? Or let me use the word, let me take you out of a sales role for a moment and go, what if you're just in a role where you're involved in promoting? Because that's what you're gifted at. You're a gifted communicator, you're a gifted cheerleader, you're a person of conviction. Is that true?

Yes, often.

All right, then. There's a lot of roles that involve that talent. You got a great resume, too. Like a really nice resume. Am I correct?

Yeah, I do. I just fix it up, and I think it's bigger than me at the moment, which is a unique issue to have.

Yeah, but it's just this is something new. Here's the deal. Take all that sales experience, all that confidence that you have. Let's channel it. Let's start looking at those two specific ideas that you just gave us, and let's see what's out there, and go for it, and be okay in the season where maybe the bank account is whittling down just a little bit because I'm not worried about you replacing it at all. But you got to be you. You got to chase this thing on your heart. You're going to be great at it, mama. I promise. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So excited that you were with us. Hey, we are growing, and that is because of you. The audience is growing and you are sharing. So we'd love for you to continue to share. The way you can do that is subscribe on YouTube or the podcast platform that you listen to. Share it with a friend and give us a positive review. All of that helps us continue to grow. We don't know how to spell algorithm, but we know that it matters, and we'd be grateful if you would do that.

Let's go to Marissa now in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Marissa, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. My husband and I are currently in BabyCept, too. We have two investment properties and a primary home. My husband plans to use the rental property investments as part of his retirement plan. The BabyCep 2 part is we have a $25,000 personal loan. My question is if we should sell one or both of the rental properties to pay off the loan, our mortgage on our primary home, and invest the rest into retirement accounts, or keep the investment properties as passive income and continue paying down the debt.

So how much do you owe on your primary home?

On the primary home, we owe 197,000.

If I heard you correct, I just want to do a quick review here. You have a $25,000 personal loan, and you owe 197 on your primary home. Outside of those two investment homes, that's all the debt that you have? Correct. All right. The idea is you would sell one of these investment homes?

Or both. One or both.

Wait, wait, wait. Is your husband up to this plan, or did you just make this call and thought, Well, I'll see what Ken and John think, and I'll tell him later?

Well played. We've talked about it.

You've talked about it, but you led with my husband's planning on these homes being a part of his retirement. When you threw that in there, I was like, Does he know? How open to this? When you discussed it, how How open to this is he?

He wants numbers. He wants a plan written out so that he can see it. All right, let's do it. We've met with- Yeah.

Okay, so let's walk through. That's exactly what I need. All right, let's walk through that. All right, so let's go. Let me write this down? Investment Home number 1, how much do you owe on it first and what do you believe it's worth?

Okay, we owe 46,000 on it, and it's worth about 240.

Okay, and then let's do the same thing for investment property, too. What do you owe on it?

We owe 76 on it, and it's worth about 150. Okay.

All right. So there's your numbers. Okay. So we've got 197 on the house. We got the 25. What do you guys make income-wise? Joint income or single?

A joint income. Without the rent income, we make 150. Okay.

So how long, if you guys buckled down, would it take you to pay off the $25,000 personal loan?

I would say probably six or seven months.

That sounds about right. The reason I asked that question is I would never sell these homes to knock out the 25K. Because of what these houses are worth, I think it's up in the air. I don't know what John thinks. My gut says, where you guys are on this process, you can knock out the $25,000, and now you're, by our definition, debt-free in Baby Step 2. Then you guys could get pretty quickly into Baby Step 3, the 3-6 Months Emergency Fund, correct? You guys could Can you track that out pretty quick?

Yeah, a month or two, probably.

That's what I thought. I want to see you guys treat these rental properties as part of the baby steps, is where my head goes. I want to get that emergency fund in there. But I mean, how quickly we're going to knock out the 46k on the house that's worth 240, and then the 76k. I mean, I'd go after that. I'd get aggressive on it. I don't know that I would sell either one of these. John, you disagree with it? No.

I think selling one of these rental properties to clear everything puts you right back in the same boat two years from now because you haven't learned. You and your husband have to learn to work together and stick to a plan over a period of time.

Okay.

That's what I would love to see. I love to see all commit to one another and say, We can do this. I'm in if you're in, and we'll do this. We'll meet every week, we'll meet every month. It's going to be annoying. We're going to fight. It's going to be frustrated, and we're going to figure out new ways to talk to each other, and we're going to get this thing done.

Okay, that's the plan.

Are you guys on a budget?

Yes, we are.

I'm trying to do some math here I'm thinking three years from now, you guys are out of debt on these homes. Am I right?

On all three? Mm-hmm.

No, no, no, no, no, Yeah, that could be doable. Because you told me it would be 6-7 months to knock out the $25,000 personal loan, and then we're going to be able to knock out, you said a couple more months for the three to six months expenses.

Hold on. What do you do for a living?

I'm a legal assistant.

Okay. What's he do?

He's a lab manager.

Okay. I would love to see you all come together and say, 45 days. This $25,000 is gone. What has to happen?

45 days?

Yeah. I'm going to get up at five o'clock, and I'm going to drive Uber until it's time for me to go to work, and then I'm going to drive into the office. Then you're going to get off, and you're going go deliver Uber Eats while he takes care of the kids, or whatever the plan you all come up with. But I want that 25 to sting a little bit. Because it's just you all make too much money and you all are playing rich. At the same time, you're drowning, right? Yeah. Because at parties, you all talk about, you're like, We got rental properties here. It's like, Cool. It's like, We had to take out a $25,000 loan just to pay bills. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, that sounds about right. Here's what you You're America. Everybody looks all good, but man, it's like, Hey, can I borrow $25,000 so I could take my kid to the hospital because I don't have any money?

But I got rental income. I got rental…

I got cash flow.

What are you making on each house? The rental house.

On the rental property, our rent income is 1,850, and on the second one, it's 1,400. That's net? And all three of our properties are on a 15-year mortgage. Okay, good.

But that's net? Those numbers are That's what you're netting over and above your mortgage?

No, I'm sorry. Our net on the first one is a thousand, and our net on the second one is 500.

Yeah. Just to let you know why you need to pay these off, Because that's not anything to get excited about. No.

$500.

$500 a month? Are you kidding me?

Work Saturdays at Starbucks.

You're actually losing money on the house after you guys fix it up and do gentle repairs.

Yeah, we do.

So here- Sell that one. Good grief. I'm wrong. I totally retract what I was saying. Not because you can't get it paid off, because it's a bad investment. Okay. It makes you $6,000 a year. That's a partial roof replacement.

Yeah, I could go either way. I don't disagree with John. John makes the right point, though. Selling these is the quick fix to a problem that you don't actually learn from unless you have the pain. He's right about that. But I would be okay with selling both, to be honest with you. But if you don't make any life change, you're going to be right back in the same spot. That's where John is 100% right there, versus having two properties that now are great assets, but you're still not making enough.

You're making 500 bucks a month.

Even after you pay the mortgage off on those, those aren't really worth it, now that I think about it.

No.

You know what? Yeah. Wait a second. You're just not clearing enough on those homes. Certainly That's the one where you're making 500, is that the one that's worth 150 and you owe 76?

Yes.

I think that's all you can get for it is 1,500 bucks a month?

Yes, it's a small home. It's like 100.

Oh, 100% I would sell that.

Sell it tomorrow.

I would sell that, and that's going to take care of the 25, obviously. That's also going to get you your emergency fund and then some, right?

Okay. Yes, I love it.

The next time you buy a rental property, pay cash for it, and make sure it's a worthy investment.

But I would add the 46 to the snowball on that other home. Oh, heck, yeah. Knock that out. You guys need to get rid of that. Now you've got something there, but no more of this nonsense. This idea of, Oh, I'm going to buy a small house and we're going to clear $500 a month. It's the American dream. No, it's not. It's a nightmare. I don't know why we're doing it. We talked ourselves into that one. I would clear that. Good stuff. Hey, thank you for the call. All right, don't move because we're not going to move. Quick commercial. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

If you think you've heard everything I have to say about investing, think again. I'm so excited to tell you about our brand new two-night virtual event, Investing Essentials. On May 21st and 22nd, I'm diving deep into my personal playbook, the investing strategy I've used for over 30 years. We're talking about mutual funds of 401ks and I'm unpacking my personal strategy for investing in real estate. Early bird tickets start at $199. Get them before prices go up at ramsey solutions. Com/essentials.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Kenan Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. The phone number for you to join us is 828-825-5225. Let's go to Richmond, Indiana, and Sabrina is there. Sabrina, how can we help?

Hey, Ken and John. So excited to talk to you guys.

Well, we're excited to talk to you.

Thank you. My question today is, when should we move? We're just looking for extra wisdom on our current plan, which is pay off debt, build that emergency fund and then sell the house we're in now to move closer to the Indy route where we actually work. Right now, we're about an hour away from our jobs, friends, church, all the above. We're looking at about three or We have more options of when we should move, so I wondered if you guys had any opinions on that.

Yeah, give us the options.

Right now, we could either stick with the plan, move after the emergency fund, or After that, stay, continue to pay off the house, because by then we'd only have $82,000 left, then move, and possibly do some renovation projects in between there, or just stay until we pay off this house and wait until we can pay for the next one in cash. Do you think it matters either way?

Well, I want to know more about where we're going. I think that'll help us decide what we need to be doing where we are. What would you be looking to purchase in Indianapolis, where everybody is? Jobs, everything else? What house are we talking about? Compare that to where you are now, because we want to be able to look at we're paying off debt and selling the house, moving to Indianapolis. What are the additional costs? How does that change our budget? That's the thing we need to be looking at. Walk us through the Indianapolis options.

We're actually about to graduate nursing school. We have a job signed up for a hospital in that direction. We just We've anticipated, like renting a year when we move over there. Great. Because houses over there are about in the 300K range.

What's your house now? What's your house worth right now?

It's probably just about 130,000. We got it for $100,000.

Okay, good. What's your mortgage right now?

The mortgage we owe, like 93,000, and it's only $486 a month. We're saving a lot by seeing where we're at.

Yeah, you are. However, when you get the nursing jobs, will it still be about an hour commute? Yes. What will be the increase in income, if at all? I'm guessing there'll be an increase in income with both of you getting into nursing.

Oh, yeah. We're I'm going to go up to about, I think it's 150 a year combined.

What are you making combined now?

Oh, like 60.

Here's how this works. If John and I are in your shoes, we're going to answer it that way. What I would be looking at is, all right, my income is going to more than double, but housing is also going to be a lot more expensive. But I'm not going to buy right away because that's super smart, because I'm moving to a new area, new careers, and renting is really smart. Stacey and I rented for two years when we moved here 10 years ago. We rented for two years. We wanted to make sure where would it be good for the kids? What's the best location compared to the office here at Ramsey? A lot of things. We just wanted to just breathe a little bit and deal with the transition. In that year, and it may be more than that, but let's just play with your timeline. In a year of renting, what is it going to cost us to rent? Do you have a general idea of what Indianapolis rent is going to look like, where you're going to be living, all your options there?

From what we've seen, around $1,800 a month.

All right. Immediately, we go to $1,400, or let's call it $1,300 in change, increase living expenses, correct? Correct. We write that down. We go, Okay, a move to India is going to cost us 1,300 plus in the living item, in our home expense item, right? We look at that and we go, Okay, but how much more are we going to clear in our paycheck? I would run those numbers, too. I would talk with a tax specialist and try to get an idea. You could do some research. You go, What's my take home going to be? We're going to figure it out. We start to look at how our take home increases We look at that increase, and we look at the housing increase. That's going to help me make the decision on Indy. I think it's going to make the decision a lot easier. I'm not saying you got to move to Indy now, but I definitely think I would move sooner rather than later, just because I know what it's like to drive that long every day, two hours round trip, nurses, brand new, working hard, church is there, friends are there, and we're all the way out here.

I think it's going to get a little quick, but I want to bring in John on that.

Dude, I'd sell my house in the next 30 days. And go rent. And I'd go rent. Me, too. And we would build a fun life together and begin working on saving with our new reality. That's what I would do.

I agree.

Okay.

You are underestimating My guess is you're understanding, like we all do, when you both are in full-time gigs, cranking it out, no school, everybody's running a gun in full-time nursing job, somebody gets a promotion, somebody gets put over other nurses, somebody's doing ER work, whatever the work is, having a home base that you're somewhat close to. There's actually some studies on the further away your commute is, it takes time off your life.

That's absolutely right.

The closer you all can be to where you work, to where you have church, to where you got friends, where you got family you can drop in and just kerplop on somebody's couch and they know you, dude, I would sell that house today.

I agree. How much will you make on it, conservatively?

I don't think we'd make very much If maybe 30,000.

Okay, but guess what? That's immediately a 10% down payment on a $300,000 house.

Ta-da.

10%.

That's true.

Put it in a high-yield savings account. That's right.

Then stack it and double it and get to 20%. Okay.

Should I be worried about renovation projects on the testing or just carry on and leave?

No. If you can sell it, get a real estate pro in there. That's a good point. Let them tell you what you think they think you should price it at. Somebody may want to come in and buy it at $125, and they want to take on the project. Yeah.

Get a good real estate pro to tell you, should you finish it? Don't let them talk you into going into debt and all that garbage because you can price it based on it as is. But look at every angle. Hold them to that. Some real estate people can, Oh, you got to finish all this. Get two or three opinions, maybe. I think that's wise. But yeah, I'm with John. I would absolutely sell. I just wanted to walk you through the numbers so that you go, Oh, this is not a crazy idea to go rent in Indianapolis.

It's also, and I'm talking to Ken here, but I want you to listen to this, Sabrina. People think because we're the Ramsey Show, because it's Dave Ramsey and family and Dave Ramsey and company, and we're all in this gang, that the most important metric in our lives is net worth. The most important metric in our life is house appreciation. It's not. You have to also take into consideration whether you're living a good whole life, whether you have community, whether you got a place to go to church, whether you actually see your spouse. You're not just flying by each other in the night because there's a four-hour commute between the two of you, each of you going one hour there and one hour back. Take all this into consideration and the baby steps there to guide this life that you want to live. And to do it debt-free. If you all move to a more expensive place, you might have to rent longer. That's cool. You got friends, family, community. Awesome. But it's a full picture here. It's not just this $1 amount that drives everything. That's right.

Sabrina, when you just picture doing what John and I told you to do, what does that seem like to you? You get to look at that as your new alternative.

I mean, it's a weight off the shoulders a little bit not to have to drive so much. We've both been to nursing school at the same We've hardly seen each other. To be close to friends would be really awesome. I think the only thing that goes off in my mind is the debt still that we have to pay off and increasing that rent amount is scary.

How much you got?

142 Two-ish thousand.

Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, take that money that you make on the house and dump it into that debt and knock it down to 110. Yeah.

I have to revise my statement. I did not catch that, that you owed 142,000. The $30,000 you make on the house, that immediately goes to the debt snowball.

Live in a one bedroom apartment, it's going to not be the greatest thing. They're going to be fine. You're all going to go get it done.

You guys are crushing it income-wise. You guys can do this. Your life is going to be better in Indy paying off 142 than it is going to be an hour away paying off 142. That's fair. That's exactly right. It's quality of life. It sucks paying off debt. I would want everything else to not be so sucky.

Right, John? Tell your friends, Hey, we can't go out. We're going to go for a walk in the park or whatever. It's going to be great.

You guys come over to our house and have microwave popcorn.

A pickleball.

Dude, don't get me started. I know. That shouldn't cost you much at all.

Ken is becoming a pickleball legend.

It's true. I got to get you out on the courts with me. I think the people want to see you just smash a pickleball right in my face.

They do not want to see that.

I think they do. I know James does. All right, good hour. Thank you, Dr. John, for being with me. Thank you, James Childs, and the fearless band of merrymen behind the glass. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win with your life and win in your life. You do that by winning with your money, your relationships, and in your work. Those are the areas that we cover. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins you this hour, and we're here to take your questions. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Seattle, Washington, and Josh is joining us there. Josh, how are you?

Yes, it's pretty good. Thank you for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on?

I'm thinking about jumping ship to a different company, a different position. The new position would entail that I would have to travel. Where I'm stuck is I have two little ones at home. They're eight years old. I'm just thinking of what type of effect that would do to them if I do take this traveling position.

How much would you travel in a given month? Have I told you?

Yes. Basically, I'd be traveling four days out of the week, so pretty much traveling all the time. I would be back Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then start all over on Monday.

Okay. Let's press pause on the kids for a moment. What's your wife think about this?

She's on the fence as well, but she has been very supportive. She stated that She's willing to make this sacrifice herself as long as at the end of the day, it could be beneficial to my career.

All right, let's talk about that. If it's something- That's where I want to go next. To me, beneficial, we have to look at two factors. What's the income bump by taking this gig? Then what does it set you up for? What specific ladder does this job set you up for? I want to also know, are you always traveling or is this a two-year stent? Is this a 12-month stent where we're traveling and then it sets you up for a promotion? Do you even know that? These are the things we've got to look at because what we don't want is to take something that's just a financial bump in the short term, and then we're just hoping for a promotion, but this is a two to three-year deal where you're gone that long. I start to get real uncomfortable with that. Tell me what you know about those questions.

I know that It'd be a two-year type of deal. Two years? Yeah. That would basically, if I stayed there the two years with a new company, that would basically put me in talks or open me up for a promotion management. We're talking management, and we're talking about a bump in 15,000 a year, but I'd be doing management versus teching out in the field.

That would kill the travel? Yes. All right. That's two years from now, you get a $15,000 bump? Correct. What bump are you going to get for taking the job from where you are to where you will be if you take this gig?

There is no bump. It's the same amount.

All right, Josh, you're not going to like this answer. I want to bring in my colleague to see if he disagrees with me here, and I'm okay if he does. I'm saying this is a hard pass. Here's why. You are going to sacrifice time with the eight-year-olds. You're going to put your wife, you're going to miss time with her. You're going to put your wife in a pretty intense position. This is a two-year rhythm for a $15,000 bump? No, thanks. The trade-off is not worth it. Just to go further in this, you can do this later, but do the math on how much you're actually going to see in your paycheck with the $15,000 bump, but I think you're going to have a really salty taste in your mouth. John?

Yeah. This is like the John and Ken Agreeing Show. What? It's okay. No, it's amazing. I love it. Ken's exactly right. If you were going to get a master's degree, and they said, Two years, you're going to miss a lot of time with your kids, and you do X, Y, and Z, and we're going to guarantee you that we'll hold up our end of the bargain, and you're going to walk across that stage when you graduate. That's one thing. But all this does, two years of missing out time with your kids that you can never get back for no extra money for a strain on your marriage. Probably you're going to be out money because you're going to have to eat out while you're on the road. Your health is going to suffer. That put you in line for the potential chance for a $1,000 a month raise. I'm out.

It's not even worth it.

What do you make total right now?

About 120.

That's good money. You make great money. Can you stay in your current job, or are they going to ask you if you don't get on the road?

Yes. No, I can stay in my current job. I Actually have a follow-up interview with my current employer to talk about a development program a year from now.

That's my thinking is if you're in the same company and they're going to let you stay there, they're already paying you six figures, you're a young guy, I bet you can get to management that way, too.

There's other options. Josh, you have a lot to offer.

How old are you?

I'm 39.

You're crushing, man. What's the path for you? I know you said management, But let's go 5, 10 years from now. Where would Josh like to be?

Probably operations manager.

Okay. Let's look at multiple paths in Seattle, around you and the kiddos and the wife, and let's just see what our options are there. Sometimes we get an option, and it's great to be wanted. It really is. It feels wonderful to get an offer. But this just does not have any redeemable qualities to saying yes to I don't see the upside at all. There's no upside at all. Okay. You got us? All right.

Now, yes. Thank you for your help.

We're asking you not to do it for you, for your wife, for your kids. That's what I think this is. I think it's that serious. I think John did a really nice job of laying out this is emotional, physical, mental. This is the whole nine yards that affects you.

This is me generalizing, but I've learned in my house that when my wife is on the fence about a major life decision, that's her gut telling her no, but she doesn't want to break my heart. Almost always. Gospel truth. Hey, let's move. I want to take this new job. I'm thinking about... She's like, Well, I'm on the fence.

That means- She's only on the fence because she's considering your feelings because she's a good woman.

Because she's a good person. She doesn't want to bury me. But her gut says, This is a terrible move for us. Yeah.

Correct. Thank you.

Josh, listen, man, saying no to the good means you could say yes to the best. I didn't come up with that. Somebody out there said that. I know I'm ripping somebody off, so I'm saying that I'm ripping it off. But I think there's a lot of truth there. As cheesy as it is, I don't even think this is good. No. It just feels good. That's the trap, John. I want to come to you on this from a psychology standpoint, because the trap in the American workplace is the promotion. It is.

Because you're an idiot, you feel like an idiot if you don't say yes to something, but you may not want to lead or you may not want to do this.

But if you say no to the promotion, you say no to a bump in the check, and I think it's trap. What say you?

Well, a lot of times, you don't get a bump in the check. You get a extra title.

But buddy, let's just say, let's take a situation where you get the bump.

Our core fear is nobody's going to want us. When the boss calls you in and says, I've been watching you, and you're going to go from assistant to associate now, and you're going to have all this and weekends, and we're going to pay you $48 more.

You feel like you have to say yes. Because it feels good.

Of course. I feel boxed in. You can say, I like my No, thank you.

It's a real trap, folks. What Josh is facing is very real. Don't fall for it. You have options. I promise. We're here to help. Thanks for the call, Josh. You're a good man. Your wife's going to be really happy. All right, quick break. We're right back. This is the Ramsey Show. I know you work hard for your money, and the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. Everydollar is the budgeting app that I use personally because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little President face and telling it exactly where you want it to go, just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, Every Dollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey so you always know your next right step. Download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me as well. And we're here for you, 888-825-5-225. That's 888-825 5-2-2-5. If I can get it out of my hands here.

Here we go. It's time for our question of the day. Today's question comes from Justin in Michigan. I'm currently attending College for Mechanical Engineering, but I'm unsure if that's the right path for me. My friend and I have been discussing starting a business together. We already have a complete plan laid out. I don't want to waste three years in college if I'm not going to use my degree. Should we go ahead and start the business? I could look into doing an online business degree while we're getting things off the ground. Would this be a good idea? Okay, I really appreciate these questions, and I really appreciate Justin, but this is one, John, where I can't go back and forth. I don't know what the business is. I don't know if this is a good idea at all.

Is he a senior or is he a freshman?

We don't know. I just want to tell the audience I'm qualifying this because this is a very, very difficult question to answer and give really solid advice. I'm going to pull back a little bit and give a general answer here. If I'm you, Justin, and I'm attending college, and I've gotten enough of the mechanical engineering, and I'm unsure if it's the right path for me. What I want to do first, John, and this is your world, you counsel a lot of students your time, I want to dig deep with my professors, maybe the head of the department, and maybe a couple of mechanical engineers out there that my mom and dad know, and I'd start there and go, All right, I'm unsure, and I want somebody, the department head, my teachers, professors, real mechanical engineers to go, Hey, I felt that, too. Let's dig first on the unsure. I wanted to start there.

I want you to talk to an actual mechanical engineer or two and find out, do you want that life?

What are we unsure of? Is it just because it's scary and it's new or it's hard?

Or it's a pain in the butt. It's a lot more math than you thought. The engineering students are up there till the middle of the night, them and the architecture students. It's a tough degree.

For instance, if Ken Coleman was in this position, and my unsureness, John, would be absolutely correct because I would be over my skis.

Me, too.

I can't do math.

But if it's him- But since the kids have been little, they've been told, Get a degree in engineering. Go to engineering. Engineering. It's a great point. Then you get to engineering, and it's hard. Thank God it's hard. I don't like buildings falling over. I want engineers to That's what they're doing, right?

We want to get to why he's unsure. If it's legit unsure that it's not a right fit, then yes, move on. If it's just other stuff, you're a little scared, and it's new, that's okay. Now, on this other issue, again, my friend and I, a little nervous about that.

Is it a snow cone business? We just don't know. Is it a car detailing business?

Yeah, you got a complete plan laid out. That's great. I can't tell you how many complete plans I've laid out in my life that were complete crap. Just because it's complete doesn't mean it's not crap. I want to I want to get sure on the college question first. I'm okay with you and your buddies trying to start this business on the side only. Low risk, low money, low labor. Let's just test this idea if it doesn't conflict with college and if college is not the right path here. That's all I can say here. Any other advice I give here is a stab in the dark.

The only other thing I'll add is if you're a freshman, you took first semester, you came back from the holiday break, you're at spring break, and you're like, Dude, I literally hate this. Awesome. Great point. If you're a second semester junior, I'm going to probably coach you just finish. Like 25 years from now, finish unless you have a great off-ramp, not you and your buddy having a snow cone machine.

I think that's right. Because to your point, if you're already well past halfway, Mark, you don't have to become a mechanical engineer to use the mechanical engineer degree. Is that safe?

You've already committed to the marketplace. I can do something hard for four years. I don't give up. I'll finish up.

Don't you think that's transferable?

Are you kidding me?

Yes. I think a lot of people go, Oh, you have a mechanical engineer degree from Texas Tech or wherever?

A software engineer, a human engineer.

You don't have to go that route. I think you're right. Once we've committed that much time, let's go ahead and see it.

Let's knock it out, dude.

That's a very good point. We should take those questions, James, and turn them into like, Dean Deloney. We make you put on one of those fake collars and ties, and we do some school music.

I think my students had plenty of Dean Deloney. They're done with it. I know.

I just like saying Dean Deloney. I think it's fun to say. Good advice, Dean Deloney.

That was my name for 20 years. Way too long. Too long? All right.

Too soon to bring it back?

No, I don't believe in the phrase too soon. I don't believe in it.

I love it. Good stuff. Thanks for the question, Justin. We did our best with that. All right, Michelle is up now in Los Angeles, California. Michelle, how can we help?

Hi. I was calling for some advice to plan the rest of my life.

That sounds easy enough. We got you, Michelle. Not a problem.

Okay, so I started really super late saving for retirement, both my husband and myself. We're in our mid-forties. I have my health payment and car payment, and then our daughter goes to private school. Those are our only bills. I have enough cash to pay off my $20,000 that I owe on my vehicle, but I'm having a hard time letting go of that $20,000. But then I wanted to attack the house because I don't want to work forever, and I want to be debt-free, so I don't just maybe needed a little bit of help.

Okay, let's get into the numbers, okay? Let's talk about your car payment. What is your car payment per month?

That's a little under $600, but I've been doubling it.

All right. Okay, so it's 600, but you've been paying 1,200. How much is left on it?

20,000, like 21,000.

Let's call it 21. What's it worth?

Probably 28. It's a 2023 vehicle. Got you.

When will you pay it off if you keep doing 1,200 a How long have you been on this?

Two to three years, possibly, I think. My husband's in all the math. I'm just the collar, and he's not here.

I know. Well, because you're the collar, I want you to walk through this emotionally. Because here's the deal. You got the money to pay this off as soon as this call's over. You're going, If I pay all that money, I've got all this risk. Yes? Yes. All right. Do you have $1,000 in your emergency fund in addition to the $20,000? Yeah. Okay. I want you to look at this as I'm not blowing money. I am paying off a 2023 car that should last me for quite some time, and I'm now giving myself a $600 a month raise by paper. But in all honesty, you've been paying 1,200 a month. You get a $1,200 raise the minute you pay it off.

Then just put that $1,200, add it to my health payment.

Yeah. If you want to pay the house off. I want to pay the house off. But you're jumping steps. Sorry, I said yes, I'm incorrect. The baby steps are, baby step one is $1,000 in your savings for emergency. Baby step two is to pay off this debt. The only debt you have, because your school payments, that's private school, that's a tuition payment, yes? Yes. That's not debt. The only debt you have is this car payment in your home, right? Correct. All right. That would put you in baby step three. The minute you cut the check for the car, you're in baby step three, which is three to six months' expenses. What is three months- I actually have a larger amount to put towards my house, but do I just keep that cushion in my bank account? No. Let's start all over. Are you familiar with the baby steps?

Yeah, I've been listening to your show for this year, so I am familiar with them.

Okay. I started walking you through it. How much cash do you have total? Stop giving me that. I got 20 for the car. I got this. How much cash do you have saved right now?

$140,000.

Oh, my gosh.

That would have been nice. They're burying the lead, Austin. All right. You have $140,000 in cash. I've been talking enough. John, I'll hand the baton to you. I want to bring my colleague in. I want to dominate here.

How much do you owe on this house?

265.

I would take three months salary and put it in an emergency fund. After you pay the car off. In a separate Yes. I pay the car off right this second, and you go to 120,000. Then I would take three months of that, which is going to be about 30 grand, and I'd put it in an account.

Savings account. That's your emergency fund.

Now you are down to $90,000. I would put all the rest of that onto the house, every penny of it. Now you only owe 100 and... Would you say 250? Yeah, or 260. Okay, 260. Now you owe 170 on your house, and you and your husband can run around like Will Farrell, hitting the got to have more cowbell bell, cheering and having the time of your life tonight, celebrating because you're debt free. You don't owe anything except a little bit left on your mortgage, and you're all going to knock this out in 2-3 years, and you're going to be free.

You're in Baby Step 4 immediately after you've done everything John told you, and you're now investing 15%. Hang on the line. We're going to get you a total money makeover.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me, and we are here for you, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Ashley in Los Angeles, California. Ashley, how can we help?

Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. I've been a stay-at-home mom for about 14 years. My husband and I were on step four, five, and six. Being a stay-at-home mom for 14 years, our kids are now, and I'm really in this odd stage of not being needed as much at home and looking to possibly go back to work or school and just needed some guidance. I did the get clear career assessment, and that was helpful, but I feel almost like the world is my oyster right now, and I don't know. There's too many options.

Well, do you have your results on you by any chance?

I I just have the part created my passion and to accomplish my mission.

Yeah, that's all I need to see. I'd love to hear your purpose statement, so you don't have to read me all the detail, but you know how we spit out a purpose statement with your results? You have that?

Let me look at that. I don't have that easily on hand. Oh, purpose statement, yes. Okay.

So slowly read that. Just give me your top talents, slowly.

Okay. It says, I was created to… Organization is instruction, execution, to perform my passions of solving, making, and finishing.

Solving, making. Hold on one second. Solving, making, and finishing. And your missional result, what motivates you is?

Efficiency.

Interesting. Do you agree with those results?

I do. The hard part was what has piqued my interest in possibly going back to school didn't really line up with that.

Tell me what that is, and I'll tell you if I think it lines up.

We had our kids very young, and I was in the middle of cosmetology school, and when I went… I had to quit that because I got pregnant when I was 18. Years forward, I went into Mortgage Processing Administration, which I was successful at, but now I can't really see myself going back into the administration field. I am high on my creativity, so I'm wondering, should I go back to school? Is it too late for me at this stage of life to pursue that?

Pursue what?

Cosmetology to be a hair stylist.

Okay, so let's leave that there. Okay, so that's what you're saying. Does cosmetology fit with my purpose statement? Is that what you're asking? Yes. Okay, great. Let's just look. Okay, so your talents are organization, instruction, and execution. Let's just look at organization and execution. These are words, by the way, when you create an assessment, and I worked on this for three years. So these words are my best attempt to go, this is a general description of a talent. So let's have some license with it. Does a cosmetologist need to be organized in their process?

Yes.

Does a cosmetologist need to be able to execute on a plan that he or she creates for the customer? Yes. Is there a level of instruction and teaching and guiding that a cosmetologist would use?

Yes.

Interesting. All right, now let's go to the what you love to do. Do you see cosmetology as solving a problem?

Yes.

Do you see it as making a new A new solution, coming up with a creative thing to make someone look and feel beautiful?

Yes.

When the job is done and the person gets out of the chair, They feel a little brighter or they stand a little taller, have you finished? Have you accomplished something there?

Yes, absolutely. That was very helpful. Okay.

This assessment is nothing more than a guide It's like a high-level job description, John. It's like that purpose statement needs to be viewed as I'm in a plane 35,000 feet above, and I'm looking down at all of my possibilities. I'm less concerned about the purpose statement, Ashley. I'm more focused on cosmetology. It's this thing you've always wanted to do, and you're creative. You love the idea of getting somebody's wishlist, sitting them down in the chair, and driving that job all the way through. That efficiency thing for you is, I want it to look neat and good. That's what you enjoy about the cosmetology, am I right?

Yes.

There's a sense of order about it, yes?

Yes.

Well, it's not too late to get into that.

I guess one of the… I'm sorry to cut you off.

No, you didn't cut me off. Go ahead.

I guess one of the things is because I've been home for so long and my family, I've been so available to them, which I'm so grateful to have that opportunity for so many years. I have this nervousness about not only just going back to school and pursuing a career at 38 years old, but also What if it doesn't work out? Because some of the things I've done before haven't worked out.

Okay, let's play that out. Let's play that out. I don't want to bring John in here in a minute, okay? But I want to walk you right into this. What would have to be true? In In other words, what evidence or what would you have to do for it not to work out? After 14 years, you go get trained and you go into it. Is it makeup? Is that what you want to be doing? Describe what this thing is for us.

A hair stylist. I want to do hair.

Okay, I'm sorry. A hair stylist. What would have to be true for this not to work out? Give us something specific. Well, if I did this or this happened, this would be a big failure.

If I wasn't able to complete school like before and had to drop out.

What would it be? Do you guys have the money? Could you save up the money to where this is a non-issue?

That's another thing is we don't really need the income. We're blessed in that sense.

You're focused on the wrong thing. You're focused on the wrong thing. Ashley, you want to do this, don't you?

Yes. Go do it.

John. Go do it. John, jump in here. There's some psychology going on Because she's coming up with all the reasons why it may not work.

Ashley, you said it right when this call started, and I almost interrupted you because it gave me the oogies. Can I tell you what it is? Yes. Uggies aren't even a thing, by the way, but it just made me go, You said, They don't need me around here anymore. Oh. Yes, they do. They absolutely need you. It just looks different. They need you in a different role. Yeah. Okay. You have to make peace with grieving the old thing. I hugged my son the other day, and he looked me dead in the eye. He's not my little boy that I could just pick up and carry around anymore. He's humongous. I grieved it. I'm sad. I miss that little boy, and I love the man that he's turning into right in front of me. But it's different now. He needs me in a different way. You still have value, but you have to get over this. You have to just decide. I am mom. I put 15 years of my life into you guys, and there's this thing I've always wanted to do. We can afford it. I want to go get creative. I want to do this thing.

I took Ken's assessment for crying out loud, and it told me that I'm right. I'm going to make this thing happen. Are you going to get pregnant again?

No.

Okay, then go get it done.

The reasons you're giving us, Ashley, that this thing could not work aren't even real reasons.

They're all fear-based. They're you coming up with reasons why you don't have value, and you do.

You're not going to fail cosmetology school. You guys have the money. You don't even need the money. This is something you need to do for you. John, jump in real quick. Tell me if I'm wrong here, if I'm taking too much license here. I think you should do this because I think you need to accomplish something for you because you have different responsibilities in the house now.

1,000%, go do it.

Thank you so much.

Ashley, don't forget the purpose in this, too. You're going to make women feel really beautiful on a day where maybe they don't feel beautiful or that they're having a bad time. This is not doing someone's hair.

Or you'll listen to them when they have something to say, and you're the only person that will talk to. That's it.

You're a counselor, you're a creator, you're all those things, and the world needs you to do somebody's hair. Go do it. I need a little trim myself. That's another issue. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrill that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825. 5:2-2-5. Our scripture of the day comes from James 4:14. You do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time, then vanishes. You have to think you're big shot when you read that.

It's quick, man. It goes fast.

That'll cut you pretty fast, right? By the way, as a parent, that's the truth. Our kids with this is like a mist. Oh, this is a John Deloney special here. Our quote of the day from none other than Eddie Vetter.

The great Eddie Vetter.

Life moves fast. As much as you can learn from your story, you have to move forward.

The other night, I was reading a story to my daughter, Josephine, and we were laying in bed, and she just starts… You know when a kid starts laughing from their guts, a hard laugh? I was like, What's so funny? She gently reached up right behind my ear and looked at my hair. She said, You have so many gray hairs. You are so old. I'm only eight. She goes, When I'm going to college, you're going to be so… I was like, enough. All right. Yeah, I get it. It goes fast, man.

It does.

Just poof.

Oh, yeah. I love when my kids point out my aging. It's really refreshing. In case any of you are worried about the roles that we play here and the attention we get and that our heads are blown up. I cannot even begin to tell you how humbling having teenagers is and kids in general. We're okay. Believe me, they could care less about what we do.

Could care I mean, really. But this morning, my son did something at breakfast, and I said, That's going to cost you. As he got out to walk to school, I rolled all the windows down, opened the sunroof, and I turned new kids on the block as loud as I would go. That's a good choice. It was a great choice.

Was it hanging tough?

It was... No, it was the other one. You got the right stuff.

The right stuff, baby. Yeah, it's good stuff. Peter is joining us now in Honolulu, Hawaii. Peter, how can we help?

How's it going?

Well, we're doing well. How are you, sir?

I'm good. I've had better days, but I'm pushing through like everybody else, right?

Can I just tell you, Peter, for a moment? I feel you, man. I could say that about me today, so it's okay. How can we help?

That scripture you just had from Eddie letter, Life moves fast. Whatever happens in your life, you have to move forward. That hit a tone just for me today because I've been dealing with some other personal stuff. That's why I let you know. It's like everything is sent by God. That was meant for me today, too. So thank you very much for that.

Thanks for sharing, man.

My father, he helps me with my books for my business and everything. A little backstory behind me is my wife passed away, unfortunately, about a year and a half, two years ago from cancer.

So sorry.

She was 44 years old.

What was her name, Peter? It was for us.

Her name was Debbie. Debbie. She was just an amazing, amazing, special Ed preschool teacher, loved kids, loved the world, loved her friends and family, did anything for them. She was battling it since she was 35. And the good Lord took her home at 44. And it left us in a stump because she's always allowed me to be the entrepreneur, to go out there and start businesses, create income, make messes with income, but still have grace to forgive me through everything I've done. I think I showed her by being by her all the way to the very last day. She was very important, but she always had to have the last laugh. And she didn't tell me she had an insurance policy. She always talked about us paying off our house and our mortgage and stuff. It blew me away. When we got the insurance settlement in, I have a very successful playground business out here, and we do honey bee removals and stuff. I have a couple of different companies going, and I make enough income, and I live way below in me. What do you make? I don't really I pay myself as a salary for the playground, so I make 60,000 a year.

I should be paying me more because we do gross in the seven figures for the business. I think I'm going to have to because of the- How much was the life insurance policy? It was 1.1. Wow.

What a gift, man. Wow.

Yeah. What's your question for us?

My mortgage is only about $450,000 left on our home. The home is valued at 2.3, of course, because it's a Hoy. It's ridiculous. My parents bought the house when it was $50,000 in the '70s, right?

Oh, my gosh. That's a great story, though.

Yeah. I have the money to pay it off. My father says he likes to pay the market, and he's managing it. I don't touch it. I don't mess with it. I have an emergency fund of about 80 grand.

Okay, slow down a little bit. Okay. So he's managing the 1.1 million?

Yeah. What is that? No, no, no, no, no, You got to fix that today, okay?

Okay.

This show doesn't exist without good-hearted and good-minded people going to help their loved ones and totally driving something into the ground.

Okay.

Is this house... Is this going to be your house? Are you on the deed or your parents are on the deed?

It's in my house for a while.

Okay. Your dad is not on the paperwork? No. Okay. I would take $400,000 and I would pay this house off and have a $2 million paid for house in Hawaii right now.

That's what I was hoping to do.

I would also move the rest of the money to a SmartVestor Pro. That's too much money to just let somebody, quote, unquote, play the market. Okay.

This is for your- I'm not already playing the market.

I just don't know enough of it myself to understand. You get SmartVestor Pro.

Yeah, but it's not his money.

It's not his money, dude.

This is a deep- He brought in about 60,000 last year through it. John- And his thought process was like, Well, how about we just pay it off in five years?

No, no, no, no, no, Why is it a bad idea for his dad to be managing one nickel of this money? Because what happens if instead of six... I mean, he put it in a high-yield savings account. At 5-6%, it's what he did.

That's what it sounds like, yes.

He could have made a whole bunch more money on the market with that money?

You need an investment professional.

If it goes down, can you imagine having to sit down and have breakfast with your dad and he lost $250,000 of the precious dollars your wife left you to get you through the rest of your entrepreneurial adventures? It will, at some point, nuke your relationship with your dad. Okay. You all two be father and son. You all two have some fun. You all two go fishing. You all do your thing, but let the smart investor pros deal with the money.

Peter, this is a sensitive thing, but you told us your wife surprised you with this policy, and she wanted you to pay the house off. I don't know why you haven't done it already. I'd honor my wife.

Honestly, I've been just trying to feel myself out for this past couple of years. I have four children. I get that. Then the business started ticking off, and it's gone very well. The business is on the seven figures now. It's good, and we're debt-free in it. The only debt I have is my mortgage.

Get rid of it today. I have nothing else. Be done today.

Honor your wife and pay it off.

Let me ask you this one more thing. In my house, we built up of it, put five bedroom, it's a four bedroom rental downstairs. It brings in $40,000 a year. What would you recommend I do with that? Put it right back to the Smart Investor Pro? Because I won't need it. I won't touch it.

Well, but you got four or five kids. You got kids going to go to school. You got kids going to go to college. You got all kinds of different things to save up for. But what a Smart Investor Pro will do, we'll sit down and say, What do you want things to look like in five years or 10 years or 15 years? You could say, I don't want my kids to worry about college. Well, cool. I'll create that fund. What else? Well, I want to not have to work after I'm 62. Cool. Done. What else? I want to be able to go once a week on a charter boat out in the Bay. Done. See what I'm saying? They'll reverse engineer the life you want to build backwards. This is the gift your wife gave you. Okay. Part of that, it's basically going to become another business. You have an income-producing business in your home. Cool. That's going to be one of your three, or four, or five, or six different ventures. At some point, your dad may need to move in, so you're not going to have that income because you're going to take care of your old man.

Life just goes up and down like that. That's why having a pro that you can call and reach out to is really important. Somebody you trust.

Okay.

But that doesn't blur the lines. Let your dad just be your old man, dude. You know what I'm saying? That's hard enough.

He's 78, retired full colonel, and he still runs two miles and does something.

I know, dude. It's hard enough. It's hard enough doing that relationship right. Don't throw a million dollars of money left from your wife who It was an amazing woman who passed away. Don't let that come between you and your dad.

Okay.

That's on you.

I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

I really appreciate it. I'm proud of you, man, for debt-free businesses. I mean, you got a house that's worth so much money. Go and pay it off. Honor your wife. Get with a smart investor pro, please, and make that money work for the rest of the dreams as John laid out so beautifully for you. We're really sad for you, but we're proud of you, and we're cheering you on, Peter. Thank you so much for the call. Wow. Good stuff there. Thank you, Dr. John Deloney. Always fun to be with you, my friend. James Childs, our fearless leader in the married band of men and women behind the Glass. Thank you all. This is the Ramsey Show.

Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You are never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.