Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Camel, joined by my good friend and one of America's favorite, John, Dr. John Deloney. We are here for you, America, taking your calls at triple-8-825-5225. Maybe you need some advice, some motivation. Maybe you need to take that next step with that broken relationship, the toxic boss, the debt that's been hanging over your head for far too long, and you're just ready to make some changes and live a better, more peaceful life. That's what we're all about on this show. Mary is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing today?

Doing well, how are you?

I'm going to be honest, I'm a little nervous and.

Anxious right now. We got you, Mary. It's just us here. Just us, girls. Let's talk.

Okay.

What's going on?

I'm calling in because my husband is a gambling addict and has been since January of this year when it became legal in Ohio. It has caused the heaviest hole on our marriage, on our relationship, our family. And I'm at the point where I have tried many routes with this, trying to be very gracious on how I go about it, trying to be respectful as a wife, trying to support his mistakes, but trying to get him the help he needs, and nothing is working. And at this point, he is very adamant about continuing to do it. I'm at the point where I feel that I need to take my daughter and take a step away, not divorce, but maybe take some separation until he figures it out. But I honestly don't want to have to do that, but I don't know what else to do right now.

What's happening that you feel like, I need to get me and my daughter out of this to be safe? I think you're right, by the way, but I want you just to articulate. Something else is going on. What's happening in your home?

It's just an extremely tense environment. We argue all the time.

Are you arguing because he's losing thousands and thousands of dollars, or arguing because he's just glued to his phone all the time and he's angry because he wins and loses? Or as is most of the time, the gambling behavior and the addictive actions that are like this compulsion is indicative of a much bigger issue in your marriage. You all don't talk to each other, you don't listen to each other, there's no intimacy. It's just become a mess. Gambling is the way he's choosing to handle that global dysfunction inside your home.

Correct.

Okay. All of it?

Yes. I mean, the lying is the biggest thing as well.

Anytime somebody has a boundary inside of a marriage that they're thinking about laying down, like, This is my final straw, this is my line that I won't cross anymore, I always want to encourage them to have an or what statement because the person they lay the boundary down is going to want to know. Can you give an example? Yes. You need to have an or, what statement. You sit down with your husband and say, If we don't go to marriage counseling by the end of this weekend, or if we don't have a date on the calendar by the end of this weekend, and it's next week, and if you don't go, here's the or what. Me and our daughter are moving out.

Okay. All right.

You just have to be prepared for the or what because the or what comes with a lot of complexity. I know it sounds super cool to be like, You can google this on these stupid websites. They're going to tell you, just leave him. You don't deserve... That sounds all well and good, but there is a significant financial complexity to this, right?

Yeah. I mean, I really don't want it to have to come to that. I mean, I really don't want it to have to come to that. Of course not. I mean, I just want to love him and have a family together.

Of course you do. I want you to keep this front and center as you move forward. You are simply doing what you have to do to keep your family safe and responding to somebody that's throwing a Grenade inside your home. You're not the one doing this, and he will paint you as the villain here.

He has.

That's right. Because he gets to do whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it with, quote-unquote, you all's money, and you're just whining and nagging and complaining and on. Online gambling, online sports gambling is destroying individuals and homes across this country, period. Dude, I always watch the fights. I love watching the games. I love having fun with my friends. So it's not that I'm like this fuddy-duddy that sits in my house and plays bingo all the time. I love the whole environment, and yet this is destroying people. You've told him that, and he has told you, I don't really care what you have to say. I'm going to keep doing whatever I want to do.

Yeah. And I mean, it's been the past few months. I guess to give just some quick context. So pretty much in a lump sum, he has spent between $30,000 to $40,000.

Has he lost it?

Oh, yeah. He's lost all of it. Okay. There's no... I mean, he's won a couple of thousand here, or a hundred here, or things like that. But he's all together since the beginning of this year. It's been around $40,000.

And can we be honest? This is what you know about. I promise there's more.

This is all I know about.

That's right. I promise there's more. Let me ask you a very tactical question. If you move out, do you have a job? Do you have money?

Yes, I have a job. He's in nursing school.

Hold on. He is making choices. You're keeping yourself safe. If he's in nursing school, then he gets to take care of his pay for nursing. He gets to make all those choices on his own. You need to have your four walls covered for you and your baby if you.

Choose to. Do you have your own bank account?

Yes, I actually did probably about a month ago at this point. That was one of the steps I took was.

Separating our finances. Good. We never recommend that, except in this moment. Does your check direct deposit into that account?

It's still in our joint, and I will just say so pretty much because we don't have any financial security right now. With my job and his job, we get paid each week. I get paid, and then he gets paid the following, and so on, and so forth. With our money that we have right now, I want to take money from my check and put it into ours, but then all the bills come out from our joint because we haven't switched any of those yet. Pretty much each paycheck that we get each week is going towards bills, going towards groceries and gas, and then there's.

Nothing left over. I want you to get with a friend, and I want you to map this out, okay?

Okay.

And you're going to have to move your direct deposit to your new account. And you would know as well as I do he's going to hit the roof, isn't he?

Yeah, he already did when I... I mean, everything I do, he does.

That's right. Are you safe?

Yes.

Okay, he's not going to hit you or hurt you?

No.

Okay, so we are getting with a friend and we're going to map this out. What's an apartment going to cost? What are the light and water bill going to cost? And we're going to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that. You might need to get some new hours and all that stuff, childcare, all those things. Then we're going to sit down and be very articulate and clear about my or what statement. This changes or here's what I'm going to do. You can't control anything he does. You can only control what you do. I hate during this situation. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you can control if and when you have to step away. We'll be right back.

What we teach at Ramsey.

Boils down to taking control of your life. It's all about.

Personal responsibility. If you own a gun.

That's even more important.

I recommend becoming a member of the US Concealed Carry Association.

You'll have immediate access to liability.

Insurance, education, and training.

To.

Protect your.

Loved ones and defend your rights in.

The most responsible way.

Go.

To uscaid. Com/ramsey and join today. That's usca. Com/ramsey. Welcome back.

To The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Give us a call at triple-8-825-5225 if you want to jump into the conversation and talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your mental health, your boundaries or lack thereof, we want to help you take the right next step. Shelly joins us up next in Dallas, Texas. Shelly, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for taking my calls. I'm really just calling because I've been listening to the show a lot and I know the baby steps and everything. I know that I'm in a position where I can afford therapy, but my question is just... Well, it's not more of a question. It's just an emotional issue around spending the money on therapy. I'm just so bad. I know I need it, and my husband supports me, but it just makes me feel bad to spend. It costs a lot, and my insurance doesn't cover the licensed therapy part of it.

So what's it going to cost for you to get this help?

Well, I was looking at better help, and I even saw some more affordable options, too. I did sign up with better help, but I'm just feeling like I'll try it for the first four weeks and then cancel it. I start it, and I started therapy before, but it was just costing like a hundred a week.

Then I was- Do you feel like this is a wasteful expense in your budget right now? Like, Hey, this money should be going toward this. What's behind that?

I start feeling like, I don't know. It's part of my anxiety. It's part of the reason why I think I need therapy.

Well, I think it has nothing to do with money. I think money is the excuse that presents itself that gives you an out so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing's on the other side of it.

Yeah, it could be. I don't know.

I think you.

Should go.

It's all confusing. Honestly, the feelings might be confusing, but even if you guys were up to your eyeballs in debt and you need to go to counseling, we would tell you to stop paying off your debt, pause, and go to counseling. Get the help, you, and care that you need.

Yeah, I'm trying to wrap... You can tell yourself, I know this is so important to my health, but it just feels... It just hurts to pay. I don't know. I was raised poor. I grew up in a poor family, and we're doing really well now, and I just feel.

Like- That's it right there. -i need to pay for the future. You know why? Because when you grew up, other people, those people over there, they got counseling. They took, quote-unquote, took care of themselves. We don't got time for that. We don't need that. Only weaklings and whims do that.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah. You didn't even want to say, Oh, I need therapists, because in my family, it would be like, Oh, well, you're crazy.

You know what? In your family, tell me if I'm wrong, in your family, you didn't say that you needed anything.

No, I actually struggled with eating disorder and everything, starting when I was a teenager. Now I'm in my 40s and having panic attacks. I had a traumatic event last year, medical with neuropathy for chronic pain for eight months in my face.

It's time. It's time.

I can't sleep without heavy medicine.

It's time. It's time.

Whatever it takes. If there was a medication, Chely, that was $300 a month, but it changed your life, would you say that was a worthy $300 to spend that wasn't wasteful?

Yeah. Well, I am spending a lot on my psychiatrist for the medicine, so I have to have that or I just can't function.

But your psychiatrist has been telling you for a long time, I'm going to give you these meds, but you need to go talk to somebody, haven't they?

Yeah, he did say CBT would help me. Correct.

It's time.

I think we need to refile this in our brain as this is not a wasteful thing, that I could be spending in this, and, It's too much in our budget, into, Hey, this is like paying for insurance. This is keeping the lights on. This is paying for the internet bill. This is going to add so much utility and value to my life that I can't imagine not doing it. It may not be forever. This may be a season that you go through and then it's over.

Yeah. I know everyone's different, but I was wondering about on average how long it could take. I've had friends tell me, It took so-a-year to really, I.

Mean, there is a tunnel.

Listen.

If you've struggled with disordered eating since you were a child and you grew up in a pretty tough place, in a pretty tough situation, and if you think so little of yourself that the idea of spending money to make sure you're whole and well so that you can show up for you and for your husband and for others, if that shuts your body down or sets off your body's alarms, it's going to be a while. I think it's counterproductive, or I'm telling you it's counterproductive to say, Okay, I'll give you four, and then I quit. That's like going to the car dealer and saying, or to the mechanic and saying, Hey, everything's broken on the car. You got 30 minutes, and then I'm just going to come pick it up.

Yeah.

I want you to.

Completely reframe this. I put this stress on myself that I feel like I have to have to fix myself in this amount of time.

Right. You're not somebody... Listen, I used a bad analogy. You're not somebody to be fixed, okay? You're not broken. Your body's working exactly as it should given the set of circumstances you grew up in, plus some genetics. What you're going to learn is different ways your body can get through a day. That's what counseling is going to do. It's going to let you practice, it's going to teach you relationship, it's going to teach you some new skills. Over time, your body is going to learn, Hey, we weren't safe then, we're safe now. All of that is worthy of an investment. Go. Don't think twice about it. Listen to this. This is important. Your feelings are not designed to tell you the truth. Your feelings are designed to keep you safe given a set of circumstances. This morning, I did not feel like writing in a journal. I didn't. But I did it because I'm a better husband and a better dad on the other side of that when I get all this crap out of my head and out of my body and onto a piece of paper. I will not feel like working out when I get home tonight.

I won't feel like it at all. I'm tired. It's the weekend, and I'm going to go do it because I promised myself I would, and it makes me a better fill in the blank. Your feelings, I feel like I want to quit. Cool. I get that. I'm going to acknowledge those feelings. That's real. Then I'm going to keep going. I feel like I'm wasting money. Cool. Your body grew up poor. It put a GPS pin in poverty. It put a GPS pin in stop spending money on, quote-unquote, you getting well. I feel that. I'm going to go anyway because I'm going to get well. I'm worth being well.

That's a good word, John. Tactically, Shelly, adding this as a line item in your every dollar budget that says Shelly's therapy. Then what's going to happen is December, it's going to feel like, Oh, gosh, that $300 came out for those sessions. Then January, it's like, Oh, yeah, we have that in the budget. Then February, it's like, Oh, yeah, we've had this in the budget. All of a sudden, it becomes normal, especially as you Excel through the baby steps and you get to a different place financially. There's expenses in my wife and I's budget that 23-year-old George would be like, Whoa, that guy is blowing some money into us. Now we're buying ourselves peace. We're buying our time back with some of these things. Therapy is not a luxury. It is financially for people who can't afford it, but it's not a frivolous expense. It's definitely worth being well. John talks about this in his new book, Building a Non-anxious Life, which I'd love to send, Shelly, a copy of that, John, if you don't mind.

Absolutely. Stay on the line. I'm going to hook you up with three free months of better help with my friends here. I'm going to take that excuse away, three free months of better help. But if you and your therapist decide, Hey, it's probably best if you keep going, I want you to keep going and stay plugged in.

That's very you, John. You wield that power here on The Ramsey Show.

I don't. I've got an extraordinary partner with better help, and they really, really care about people getting well. It's their generosity, not mine.

That's very kind. Hang on the line, we're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and three months of Better Help on us to get you started on this path. We are cheering you on and I'm proud of you. That's not an easy thing to call into a national radio show and put that all out there and go, I'm struggling with this. I want to get the help I need. I know a lot of people are benefiting from this call who probably need to take that next.

Step too, John. Dude, I remember being a 6'2, 195 pound Texas male sitting at my kitchen table while my little boy was asleep and my wife was asleep in the end of the room weeping at my kitchen table because I knew I had to. I also felt like such a wimp and such a weakling and such a coward and all those things. I went and it's changed everything. Go get the help and care that you need. Thanks so.

Much for the call, Shelly. More of your calls coming up, the number is triple-8-825-5225. We'll be right back.

Fake it till you make it. It's popular career advice.

But it doesn't work for very long. If you.

Don't love what.

You do, you can't fake the enthusiasm and energy you need to win.

At work.

You also can't fake your physical health and energy.

Everybody knows we should eat more fruits and veggies, but.

Fruit chews and.

Vegetable chips don't count.

If you aren't winning physically, I promise you're limiting your opportunities to win professionally.

Folks, I know you're going hard right now to pay off debt and get ahead professionally.

You need another gear, and that's why Balance of Nature will.

Help you. They help me. They give.

Me the benefits of fresh, whole fruits and veggies in just seconds. The blend of 31 different fruits and veggies is powdered in an advanced process that locks in the nutrients. So go to balanceofnature. Com and enter the promo code, Ramsey, to get 35% off your first.

Order and lock in a lifetime price.

As a preferred customer.

That's balanceofnature. Com with the promo code.

Ramsey, for 35% off.

Your first order.

Welcome back to The Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We've got a lot going on right now at the Ramsey Solutions store on our website at ramseysolutions. Com/store, including our $12 sale. We can get a lot of meaningful gifts for Christmas right now. Bestselling books like The Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, just 12 bucks each, and questions for human's conversations cards from my friend Dr. John Deloney, as low as 10 bucks right now. The Christmas edition is back. That one sells out quick. You'll also notice a whole bunch of new stuff. Our friend Jade Warsaw, launched a new quick read this week called Money is Not a Math Problem. Rachel Cruz has a great new kids book out beautifully illustrated called I'm Glad for what I have. We've got the 2024 Ramsey Goal Planner. Of course, my new book, Breaking Free from Broke, is now on presale, and the support has been overwhelming. Thank you to all of you who have pre-ordered that book and have made your shopping list a little easier with the ramseysolutions. Com/store. Getting meaningful gifts, John, that's what it's all about.

I don't know what you buy for Christmas. Are you getting your kids anything exciting?

Dude, I have a problem. Yeah.

Do you want to talk about this off air?

This feels- I mean, I just love buying gifts. That's very you. There was many years when I couldn't, and so-.

Now you're making up for last time.

Yeah, but it's sometimes about me and not about them.

It's very self-aware.

I said on the show the other day, I told my son, we were out having a meal together, and I said, Hey, this year, we're not just a bunch of junk, and I'm going to get you a couple of really important things, and this, and this. He just smiled at me and goes, You can't do that, dad. He's like, Watch me. Well, he was right. He's like, Dad, we don't need the stuff, but you can't do it. Cool. It was good. I called his bluff. He didn't get crap this year. Just kidding. He'll get a bunch of them. Take that.

That's very you.

I just like buying gifts.

I can't wait to see what you get me this Christmas, John. Maybe three months of better help is in the cards for me. That would be nice. No, I got.

You a razor.

A scooter?

No.

Oh, for my face? For your face. I should not have been that excited about a razor scooter, to be honest. Oh, my goodness. All right, let's get to the lines. Ryan awaits in Syracuse, New York. Ryan, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys, can you hear me?

Yes. How can we help today?

All right. Thanks for having me on. I'm very blessed to be here. Absolutely. Thanks, Tim. Well, congrats on the.

New book as well. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I just wanted to get your guys' take. My wife and I just were starting to get more of a budget together. We download the Every dollar app. We've been trying to get more responsible with budgeting and everything. We do have some debt that we want to try clearing up over the course of the next few years, hopefully. We have two kids and balancing that life and debt and everything. I just wanted to get you guys' take on it if it's possible.

Okay, well, to give us a little more specificity here. What's your income and how much debt do you have?

Yeah. So more specifically, the big things are we have a Heloc, unfortunately, that we did take out. That's about $11,800 for renovations in the home. I specifically have about $170,000 in student loans, and my wife has about 50,000.

Bro, are you a surgeon?

No. I'm a hospital pharmacist. I did get just passport certification to be specialized in infectious disease. I'm hoping that takes me a little farther than my career. And my wife, she's an elementary teacher, and she has her Masters in Education. So the 50,000 is her graduate Masters. And then I did do quite a few years of schooling. I guess my question is we've been trying to get better with budgeting. Our take-home monthly, between her and I, is about 10,500. So it's about $125,000 a year take-home. We ran the numbers. We're wondering where the heck is all this money going because we do have a little bit left over at the end of each month. I think right around about 2,2300. To throw at the debt? Yeah, that's with minimum payments on the debt. That's taking into account trying to pay the heat lock off a little bit earlier and putting a little bit extra money toward that, and then budgeting for anything for the kids and for us and all that, just with life and everything.

Okay, well, your plan right now sounds like a 10-year plan to get rid of debt, right? That sucks. I want to live life more freely in the meantime. So what if you could sacrifice for three years and be totally done with this debt?

Yeah.

Then you start doing math and you go, All right, that looks weirdly like you got $231,000 in debt over three years. That's $77,000 a year. You're tracking? Yeah. Now that means every single month we need to be throwing $6400 at this debt. That gives us a real goal. Right now, you're like, We're trying to pay off some debt, and I think it's going to be a little while. Let's get really tactical and go, We need $6400 going toward debt. How do we make that happen? For you guys, that probably looks like getting income up ASAP. That might mean taking some jobs you normally wouldn't take because you're a fancy hospital pharmacist. But right now, the extra thousand bucks a month could change our life.

Okay.

It might mean we got to cut expenses down and Christmas looks different this year and we're going to pick one person to get the gift for instead of getting something for everyone, even though we're fancy and pharmacists. You know what I mean? Right. There's going to be sacrifices here on both sides of spending less and making more because I want to see you out of debt in three years. I think it's possible, but we're going to have to make some lifestyle changes.

I want you to shoot for two and a half years.

Yeah, okay.

Listen, I've been where you are with my little fancy graduate degree, pulling into the parking lot with my other colleagues and their BMWs and their Lexus and their nice cars. You can either choose to be free or not, man. That means people are going to look at you in the parking lot and be like, Bro, I know what you make. What are you doing? Aren't you the pharmacist? Yep. I'm driving an old Corolla. I sold my other car because my identity is not in that. My identity is in freedom. I'm going to work Saturdays and Sundays because you can pick up extra shifts. You can go to Walgreens and pick up a shift there, too. You can work as much as you want to work. Yeah, but I want to don't miss this. I don't want to miss that. Man, please get this stuff out of your life as soon as possible.

Yeah, okay. You're looking at...

Yes, go ahead. I want to help you out as well with the budgeting side because it sounds like you guys are starting to actually go, Where is this money going? That's a great step to take. I'm going to take it one step further and give you every dollar premium for a year to really get down to the nuts and bolts. Connect to your bank account. Use the paycheck planning tool, the financial roadmap tool. Get both you and your wife downloading this app, looking at it every day, tracking that two or three transactions, making a plan, going, Are we on track to put that 6,000 towards debt this month? What do we got to do to get there? All right, we're not going out to eat for a while. We're going to scrimp on the groceries. We're not taking that vacation. It's going to be three years, two and a half years of intensity, but you're going to have 30 years on the backside of freedom.

You.

Don't sound like you like that answer.

Well, I know. I mean, I do. It does sound good. My wife and I, we are focused, too, on making sure that our two girls are taken care of. I guess it was more of we wanted to try to find a balance between paying off the debt.

There won't be- I guess.

My goal was... Yeah, I know that it's got to be.

Either one or the other. Let me tell you this, and I'm saying this unequivocally, and this is neuroscience, and this is physiology, and you know this. You and I have read the same journal articles. The greatest gift you can give your kids is not lessons and a thing. The greatest gift you can give your kids is not a great present or a cool trip. The greatest gift you can give your kids is a non-anxious, regulated adult in their home, two of them. The greatest gift you can give your kids is not attendance to every single solitary soccer game. For 24 months plus 6 more, 30 months, the kids are going to deal, man. You could dig a hole in your backyard and fill it up with mud and whipped cream, and your kids will tell that story at your funeral more so than the trips and soccer games you think they got to have. What they need is two parents that don't know anybody anything, and their heart rate stay below 70 all the time, and they sleep all night, and they love each other, and there is peace in that home. Give them that, not balance.

Thanks for the call, Ryan. Hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar. This is The Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people, especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things, or maybe you just like experiencing time together, or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's online so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with better help. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/daloney.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you enjoy this show in any capacity, which the charts tell us that you guys are liking what you hear, you love hearing these stories from the callers, the inspiration, sometimes the tough love, please consider liking the show, consider subscribing. Leave us a review wherever you're listening. Hit the Follow button, share it with a friend, text the family group chat, and let people know, Hey, I'm into this show. I think you would like it too. You never know how that could get someone started on their journey to wellness, whether it's financial, relational, or career related. Thanks for doing that. Richard joins us up next in Buffalo, New York. Richard, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me. Thanks for taking my question. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. How can John and I help?

I'm a 24-year-old former children's pastor. I had to resign under duress. I'm going through a divorce right now. I have $42,000 in debt between student loans and maxed out credit card debt. I just need to know, want to know if it's possible to get out of this hole.

Of course it's possible. What happened?

Yeah. At the job, due to my wife's mental health, she's struggling with bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder. There is an incident, allegedly, where I was physically pushed in a private meeting. I had to take off. Then a lot of the debt, I can't say all of it, I wish I could, the credit card debt was a lot of medical debt, just trying to survive. I had a 26 case salary, so it wasn't a whole lot to work with. But she requested the divorce shortly thereafter. Now I'm back home trying to figure things out, trying to rebuild my life. Got you.

Well, I hate that you went through all that. I can assure you there's light on the other side of this, okay?

I.

Appreciate that. You could go work at McDonald's and make more than $26,000$1 right now. This is not an economic issue. I think you're going to have to be wrestling with the identity part because in your head, you are a, quote-unquote, pastor, and you are a, quote-unquote, childhood expert, and you are, quote-unquote, married, and now you're none of those things.

Yeah.

I think the moment, the first time we think we've got this identity wrapped up, and especially when it's a job title, and the first time it gets ripped away from us or we get opportunity to do something else, it's unmooring, right? It feels like the ground just melted away out from under us and we're falling, right? You're not. What I want to challenge you, and Joe is going to walk you through the financial part of this, but here's what I want to challenge you. Go do something tomorrow, okay? The challenge is for you not to sit at home and wallow. Another job will come, whether that's a pastor's job, whether that's working with kids, you can go be a school teacher and double your salary tomorrow. You can get a job starting in the second semester. You may say, I never want to see another kid again as long as I live. Who knows? But I want you to go call a Christmas tree farm, call McDonald's, call Subway, get a job tomorrow, okay? Yeah. Start getting some income in your home and start having a thing that you need to go do and work towards.

Do not, quote-unquote, follow your passion. You need a job. Yeah. Okay? Let's start loving people, taking care of them wherever you happen to be, because that's who you are. Then in the process, we'll heal from this divorce, we'll heal from this the things that were said. If you were in the home with somebody with bipolar disorder or with unmanaged borderline personality disorder, you've been through hell and back, right?

Yeah. Then your.

Church turns on you and that feels unmooring because they have... A whole thing, man. It's a mess. You're going to have to grieve this for a season, but also you got to go to work, okay?

Yeah. Okay.

Let's talk, Monty. Richard, you're living with your parents right now, is that right?

Yes, I am. Rent-free because my mom is the best.

Wonderful. God bless moms. What are your expenses? Have you actually looked at what it takes to run Richard's life right now per month?

Yes, I have.

What does that amount to?

Thankfully, my salary limited my poor decisions. At the.

Bare minimum-.

There's silver lining. Not always, Richard.

Yeah. Honestly, I'm thankful for it because if I had more money, I probably would have been in this exact spot, but way worse. With everything, and I have a car payment, my minimum credit card payment is 365, AAA, my phone. I'm trying to door-dash on the side once I getI'm hoping to get a little more minimum wage, but it takes about 1,500 a month at the bare minimum if I'm just paying minimum payments to run.

My life. Even without the rent. 1,500 is the number we're aiming at just to cover your bases.

Yeah, that would be like I would be netting zero. Got it. Yeah.

Beyond that, if we can make more than that, that can all go towards paying extra on our smallest debt. Yes. Do you have any money in the bank right now? No. That's not the reaction you want to hear.

Laughter. He made 26 grand, George.

Well, that helps me just go, All right, our A1 is getting a $1,000 starter emergency fund. Before we start tackling the debt, just keep the minimum payments going. When you get that job tomorrow, your A1, build $1,000. That's it. Okay. After that, debt snowball. Smallest to largest debts in order, we're going to attack the little one with a vengeance, make minimum payments on the rest. You can do this. This is a fixable problem because you're about to get a raise. No matter what job you get, you just got a raise. That's the good news. If you can make, let's say, 40, 50 grand working a few jobs over the next 12 months, could you put 20k at this debt in a year?

Yeah. I don't see any reason why not. I've been.

Crunching the numbers. I can tell you why. Ego. Because I want to move out of my parents' house because I want to be a minister and not be able to eat, but that's what I want to do. It's going to be ego.

If.

You sit down with your mom tonight and say, Mom, I want to make a 12-month commitment to you. I got to get this stuff paid off. You're not going to see me much. You might see remnants of me coming and going like a ghost, but I'm going to work seven jobs. I have to be done with this madness. When you're 25, you're going to stand six inches taller than you do right now.

Because you got hit- You had the nail on the head. I thought I was just going to get financial advice, but you're.

Preaching to me. No, dude, because you knew the math was bad. You made 26 grand a year. That's what my son makes, cleaning horse stalls in the woods. Not really. It doesn't make anywhere close to that. But good God, 26 grand in New York. Jeez, Louise.

I did get housing at the time, so that helped.

But yeah. I have, golly, the thought that just came in my head, I'm glad I didn't say because they would have been diving for the dump button back there and it would have got me canceled. That is what people use sometimes to give people livable wages. It's cruel, okay? And you're a good man and you're young and you wanted to get in a foot in the door and partage in a pair of the trip, yada, yada, yada. Go get several jobs.

What's the car loan? What's left on that?

I got it last year when I got to a head-on collision. The monthly payment is 450 and the insurance is 200. What's the total loan? It is 18,000.

That is a lot of car. Even for a guy who was making 26, is the car worth 18 still?

Thankfully, yes, it is. It's only got 40,000 miles on it.

Is that part of your 42K in debt? Or is that extra on top of the student loans and the credit cards that are maxed out?

That would be extra.

Actually, yeah. I think this car needs to go, my man.

It's gone this weekend.

Can you borrow mom's car to get to and from work?

Her cars are in really bad shape.

She's- Not as bad as your financial shape.

That is true. That is true. The thing that I'm worried about, and this is I think, because I've been talking to my friends and they all say the same thing, but I think an expert can be able to put me at ease, what I'm worried about is selling the car and getting... Because I don't mind what I drive. I really don't care. I'll drive a can.

With you. What are you worried about, Richard? Go. We're up to the clock.

One word. I'm worried about if I get a 100K-mile car that I don't like.

To- Get over yourself, homie. My truck has 200,000 with a two, and it's awesome. It's not that awesome, actually, at all, but it works.

Richard, you know what to do, man. Sell this car this weekend. You got to stop making excuses and just move forward with your life. Thanks for the call that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney. We are here for you, America, to give you a little bit of hope in a world that feels a little hopeless, to give you a little bit of peace in a world that feels chaotic, whether that's with your money, your relationships, your mental health, you name it. The number to call is triple-eight, 825-5225. Caleb kicks us off in Indianapolis. Caleb, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Sure. Back at the end of 2022, I went through a divorce. And following up that divorce, I got into the gambling addiction. I got into it pretty bad. I kept it a secret from family, friends, and everybody. Fast forward to about February, I sold the house and stuff. I reached out to my parents and let them know that my situation, I came clean with my debt and told them the amount that I had and all that. And they got me onto this program called Green Path Financial, which is a debt consolidation. They consolidate with the creditors, and they tried to lower the interest rates on your loans. So I went on that program for about 10 months now, and I finished my college. Fortunately, with my last marriage, I did get free tuition with my degree, so I do not have any student loan payments. I got a new job down here in Indianapolis. I moved three hours south of my own, even with this debt. I've got quite a bit of pay raise. So even budgeting, I thought I would be able to tackle this on my own.

Unfortunately, a few weeks ago, I got right back into gambling addiction again, and I finally reached out to my parents. And I also have a girlfriend now, five months. And I lied to her for five months about my current situation and not telling her about the gambling. And at first, I told her it was only like $6,000. And then I came clean two weeks later. I said, No, it's really like $20,000. And then I really wasn't being honest. And I finally told her a few days ago that it was amount of $35,000. And she's very hurt by it. I'm hurt by it. My family's hurt by it. I had to reach out to the hotline to seek help for myself and try to talk to a therapist about it. I guess I'm trying to move forward. I'm behind on things. I'm just trying to get back on my feet. Most of my support is three hours away. As far as I go, I'm not sure what to do, moving forward, or what suggestions you guys may have.

Did you keep your job, man?

Yes, I still.

Have my job. Are you still going every day? Yep. Okay. Are you ready to be done?

Oh, I'm done.

I know, but you said that last time. Are you ready to be done?

I'm ready to be done.

Okay. What steps did you take in order to be done?

I called the hotline and I told them I need help.

What gambling was this?

Online. I've got Jack.

Have you disconnected your internet from your home?

No, that's all tied into my rent. It used to be separate, but now it's not.

Have you got rid of a computer? So you have no access?

I don't have a computer. It could be done on the mobile phone.

I know I was going to get to your mobile phone next. But here's what I'm saying. You've destroyed your life once. You've done it again. Until you get really serious about it and take away access and not just... The hotline is great. It's really important. But you need to go to a meeting tomorrow. Or if you can find a GA meeting tonight, go tonight.

Okay.

Because you got nobody in your corner, man. It doesn't map right on top of it. But I like the idea. It doesn't work a dollar for dollar, if you will, but the idea that addiction is often connection-related or disconnect-related. You got nobody.

Right.

The person you did have is now very disconnected from you because you didn't tell the truth.

Right. But she's still sitting by my side.

Right now. I know she did. I know she did. But there's a gap between you, and you know that. You can feel it.

Right.

But here's the deal. When I ask you if you're all in, if you're ready, you got to be all in. If that means getting a flip phone for a while and not having internet access, great. If that means for a season, I've deleted every app off my phone, and my wife has a mirror app, or my girlfriend has a mirror app, or whoever my accountability partner is, great. I'm going to go to a meeting at 6:00 AM. I'm going to go to another one at 7:00 PM. Do you have time for that? Nope. But you don't have time to keep drowning either.

Right. She's in the opposite situation as me. She's, what, 300 plus thousand in.

Net worth. Great. We're not playing comparison game.

We're.

Trying to survive.

Right.

Because that comparison game for somebody in your situation is a shame factory. You don't need that right now. You got enough shame as it is. You need to sit in a room with other men and women who are in the same pocket of hell that you're in and feel them go, Yeah, me too, man.

Right.

That's it. If you don't take it this seriously, you're going to be right back in the same situation. Your girlfriend's going to leave and you're going to owe $65,000 to $35,000.

Correct.

Online sports gambling is a cancer in our country, and you got it.

Correct. Is there more debt, Caleb?

No, that is me coming clean. That is everything.

What are you making your job?

About $70,000 a year.

Okay. And what is this $35,000 in debt made up of?

It's a combination of credit cards.

Have you cut up all of your credit cards? Because that's one of the reasons you keep.

Going back here. Yeah, all the accounts are closed. I have no access to any of the accounts. That was part of the agreement when I joined the debt consolidation program.

Is this all one giant debt now that you're working on?

Correct.

Okay, what's the interest rate on this?

They vary between 3% up to 9%. They have one card that's at 9%, but they said once 18 months of payments have been completed, they would drop it to zero.

Okay, well, I want you to tack this aggressively regardless of the interest rate. You've got one mountain to climb, and that's this $35,000 debt. You make $70,000. Can you work on top of that?

Yes.

Because if we can get any extra income, we can get rid of this debt within 18 months. Is that fair? Do you have any money right now anywhere else you could liquidate or sell stuff?

That was the question I was going to ask. I have a 70 Camaro that my dad and I did 10 years ago. It's in his name now, but he's giving it to me to get to my kid someday in the future. But he says, No, you're not selling it. So what's your thoughts on that? Because you wanted me to ask too.

I probably wouldn't sell it. Right now, what you're trying to do is you're trying to get Band-Aids over cancer. You can't do that.

Correct. I'd rather see the behavior.

Change here. You need to work. Yeah.

When you feel that with your future income and you see all that money disappearing toward lenders, it's going to be a stark reminder of why you're never going to get back here again.

What do you do for a living, brother?

I'm a senior system administrator.

Cool. So you can drive in the morning and you can do your job during the day, and then in the evening you can drive again, or you can go through boxes at a Walmart until 11:00 PM. Got you. If you're working mad, A, you don't have time to be on your phone gambling, and two, you cannot do this by yourself. You have to get a group that meets in person, and you'll sit around a circle and look at each other and be honest. Period. You can get out of this in 18 months, probably quicker than that. If you want to work and if you want to be committed to getting well, hang on the line. We're going to send you building a non-anxious life in my new book.

No matter what time of year it.

Is, focusing on.

Your family's financial plan is always.

A smart move. I get questions all.

The time.

About where to start and what to do first. Getting term life insurance needs to be a top priority.

I recommend 10-12 times your income and lock in rates for 15 or 20 years.

This gives you plenty of time to get out of debt and.

Build wealth. I've been.

Recommending Xander Insurance.

For over 25 years.

They understand.

And live this strategy and will.

Take the time to help.

You find the.

Most.

Affordable term life rates. Go to zander.

Com or call 800-356-4282.

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We've got a special show coming up in December here. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing the giving edition of The Ramsey Show. It's one of our favorites of the year. We want to hear stories from you guys about how you have given generously this season. Maybe you have tipped a waitress 100 bucks, you bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford it. Maybe you blessed someone a need by giving them a car. Who knows? Maybe you were on the receiving end of all this and you had your life changed by someone who gave generously to you. We want to hear those stories. Here's what you need to do. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/ask and put giving in the subject line. It's coming up on December 18th, so start sending in your stories of giving today, and let's celebrate living like no one else so you can give like no one else. Ramseysolutions. Com/ask. Sam is up next in San Francisco. Sam, what's going on? Hi.

Happy Friday and Merry Christmas. You as well. My question is regarding my disability insurance. I have an occupation disability, which made sense when I was single. When I finished all my training, I had full $158,000 in student loans. I was paying about $3,000 a month on them. I'm recently married. We've combined bank accounts and come in debt. We're in baby step two. On the one hand, it's only been a few months, and I'm just really frustrated with what I feel is our lack of progress, which probably isn't as bad as I think it is, but I would like to redirect that 450 a month to the debt. On the other hand, I feel like it's irresponsible to cancel it because if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, my student loan companies won't care. My loans are the bulk of our debt, and we would definitely struggle on one income.

But if you die, your student loans die with you, don't they?

Yeah, but if I'm just disabled, they don't.

Okay.

So if I lose a limb. Okay. I don't know if should I cancel it?

What's it costing.

Right now? Pardon me?

What's the cost right now?

It's around $450 a month, but it goes up every year.

It's $450 a month?

Yes. Is this short term or long term? No.

It's long term.

That feels real high for long term.

Mine is like $12. $12 bucks.

Yeah. Well, mine is on occupation, so it's specific for - Specialized. -specialized.

What do.

You do? Yeah, I'm a surgeon.

That explains it. Well, there's a reason it's higher, and that's because there's a higher chance that it could happen in your occupation, and there's a bigger income to cover as well. What do you make?

It's highly variable because I'm pure commission right now. I'm probably bringing in around $12,000 a month after taxes. But I'm actually also about to, in the next couple of months, I'm leaving my job and starting my own practice, which will give me a huge hit. I'm also looking at how that's going to impact our budget and where that 450 goes.

Have you reshopped this insurance in a while with an independent broker? I have not. I would at least do that to make sure you're getting the best deal possible for great coverage. How much does it cover as far as your salary? What percentage?

It's actually two policies. One of them is up until 65, and then one of them is lifetime. I did reshop it right before I finished on my training, and he said keep the lifetime because they don't offer that anymore. I think the lifetime is 1,500 and then the other one is 2,500. It's a total of 4,000 a month. Then 1,500 of that is good for lifetime and the rest would drop off at 65.

I don't know that.

You'll need the lifetime one. I know, but it covers my minimum payment.

But if you're retired at 65, you're not going to need that anymore. True. I know they may not do it anymore, but I also think it's also not super helpful. If you want to cut down the cost, I would cut that one. I would also reshop it with an independent broker. But no, I would not cut this out of your life to get out of debt faster. Insurance is too important, especially in your field and disability. Long-term disability is one of those that we recommend for everyone. Ramsey, thankfully, covers that for our team. But because of your occupation, I know it's pricier and it stinks to pay that out, but it also stinks to pay my auto insurance and my life insurance and my health insurance. But goodness, we're glad we have it when life hits the fan.

What surgeon are you?

Pardon.

Me? What surgeon are you?

Plastics.

Okay.

I know I'm underpaid. That's why I'm starting my.

Own practice. I was going to say, my goodness.

I know.

You do elective plastics, but you also do reconstructive plastics. You, more than anybody, know... I do, yeah. -life happens to people.

Yeah, I know. I could do mostly constructive.

But so I'm saying if anybody knows I should probably keep this insurance, it's you. Because it's easy for the average person to go through life and be like, I'm not going to get in a car wreck. I'm not going to fall off a bike. I'm not going to get bit by whatever. That's all you do every day. You know.

Yeah.

But I can't wrap my head around. I mean, that's not halfway to gen practice money these days.

I know. There was a lot going... Even now, I'm not going grateful. It seems that it's scary. It's scary to go on your own. At least I'm married now and my husband is incredibly supportive, and so I need to support me. But it's terrifying. I've been putting it off for a good five years.

Is there another group you can go work with?

No. Itry not for what I do. My goodness. Okay. It's not going to get me better.

I trust you because this is your field. I'm stunned at.

How long this is. I looked into it, actually. I looked into it. I did a lot. I did a lot of read the Entree Leadership book and spent a really long time exploring two different options. It was like months and finally just a bunch of things lined up. I think there was also a huge component. I always felt like God would tell me when it was time to go and... He just like just a million things lined up, and it was loud and clear. He was like, it's time.

Help me through the specialty things, the stuff real quick, because I've got friends that are nurse practitioners that make that. How hard is it to pause being dramatically underpaid for what you're doing and go over to another vertical in medicine?

Very incredible. It's impossible. You'd have to redo a residency. Okay, all right. I've done a residency, I've done a fellowship. That's why my loans are so high. Because actually, I finished my school with under 400, but then interest accrued because that was planning on my part. So that's why I ended up with 458 because I deferred for quite a bit of time.

What's the total debt load you guys have?

It is currently $463,000.

Oh, my goodness. Is that include a mortgage or is that all the... Nope. That's all the consumer stuff from school.

You got.

Cars.

In there? We have one car. We just paid off his car. We have his daughter's car. We paid off his car this week. Then there's a little bit of IRS in there.

Okay, well, with your current take-home pay, this is going to take a lifetime. To John's point, we have to dramatically increase the income. That's the problem right now. We got a huge hole. We have a decent shovel, but not compared to the hole. That's going to be your key out of here, and canceling the insurance to make a few extra hundred bucks is not going to be the ticket out either. But I'd keep looking in the couch cushions of your budget to see where else you can cut to make some meaningful impact. But the income is where you're going to be able to knock this debt out in the next four or five years. If you can start throwing 70, 80 grand of your take-home pay at this debt, it's a different equation.

What's your husband do?

He's in sales.

Does he have an opportunity to significantly increase his salary?

Yes, and he's been working on that. He's actually very good at what he does. Again, because he's in sales, his income's also incredibly variable. The budgeting thing has been both of the first time I've ever done the budget.

Yeah, we can tell.

We can tell. You guys are also in the Bay Area, which not helping. Yes, we are. What's your mortgage or rent?

$2,900.

Okay, that's reasonable. I thought I was going to.

Have a heart attack. No, it's actually stupidly low, and that's actually one of the issues is that I'm actually complicated. But we're going to have to move because this is not as sustainable. I moved into his bachelor pad, so it's going to have to go up.

Well, there's a whole lot that's not sustainable right now, and half a million dollars of debt is a bigger problem than moving into the bachelor pad. I wish you the best in increasing this income and getting rid of half a million dollars in debt. Our friend, Jade Warshaw, did it. If you need some inspiration and motivation, check out her book, Money is Not a Math Problem. That puts this segment in the books. We'll be right back. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. This is The Ramsey Show. The number to call is triple-8-825-5225. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. When you want to repair, maintain, or improve your home, stop wasting time scrolling through pages and pages of providers. Neighborly is all you need to remember for a nationwide network of local home service professionals. Visit neighborly. Com/ramsey to find reliable help near you.

Today's question comes from Jim in Ohio. Jim asks, My wife and I decided not to use credit cards prior to marriage. She decided to use one of her cards behind my back and is now $6,000 in debt. She has $6,000 in savings from a settlement to pay it off, but will not. Your thoughts. My thoughts, Jim, are that this is not about using money X to pay off debt Y. This is about you and your wife had a set of values and your wife lied to your face. This is not about using settlement X to pay off debt Y. This is about your wife committing financial infidelity. She cheated on you. You all agreed we're not going to do this. She did. That's what you'll have to deal with. Because you deal with that issue, then the what do we do next is anything. If somebody cheats on their spouse with another romantic partner and they choose to stay together, the question is often like, What do we do now? We're going to do anything it takes, everything it takes. You just have to have the harder conversation, which is your marriage is in a lot of trouble.

This is.

One of the reasons, John, that we recommend people, combined bank accounts have total visibility and communication when it comes to money. Because my guess is they never really combine finances. She's doing her thing over here. Well, she has this 6k in settlement. She has this debt. She won't pay it off. We need to have an hour discussion, a we discussion, where we go, We have 6,000 in savings. We now have $6,000 in debt. But how are we going to solve this and how do we prevent this from ever happening again?

If she says, No, I have $6,000, your marriage is in trouble, period.

I know the internets don't like that. I know the modern-day marriage is stupid. It's an old archaic relic. Look around. Look around at our culture. Yeah, you're showing us. Great job, guys. It is critically important, and you got to be all-in. If both of you aren't all in, well, then the whole thing caves in on itself. Part of being all in is saying, Our money, our debt, our home, not, My check goes in my account to pay my bills. Well, then you're glorified roommates. You did that in college with that dude that didn't pay you.

Nobody wants to go back to that. Yeah, why? Disgusting. Why? Well, sorry you're dealing with that, Jim, but it sounds like it's a good opportunity to reset this marriage and go, We're going to go differently forward and communicate differently. We're going to have different set of values, and we're going to freeze our credit bureau account so that we can't go into debt if we want to. Put some process in place and figure out what was at the root of her going into debt behind your back. That's the real issue at hand here. All right, let's get to the phones. Marie is in Jacksonville. Marie, what's going on?

Hey. I just, out of the blue, was laid off. No, man. I know. I am a big every dollar user, have been for a while. I try to be very regimented. I am still only on baby step two. But I'm really struggling with making my budget now. I'm not quite sure what to do. I'm definitely trying to get a job. I'm definitely working on it. I guess the biggest question that I have is I did veer off from the plan a little bit because I didn't feel secure with a thousand dollars as my buffer. So Itry to make sure that I actually have $5,000 as a buffer. I don't know my comfort level with letting go of that $5,000.

Marie, you're unemployed. I don't know. It's about being comfortable. It's about surviving.

Yeah.

How much debt do you have?

I know this is going to sound funny, but I'm down to 15 in loans and credit cards and about 110 on my mortgage.

Okay, so mortgage aside, we have $15,000 of debt to clean up before we can move on to baby step three and four and five and all of that.

Right.

Okay. What were you making before you got laid off?

I was taking home about just under $6,000 a month.

Nice. What were you doing?

I'm running a charter school.

That's a big job.

Why did you get laid off?

Really, it was a personality conflict with my boss and I. I had no write-ups, no warnings, no bad performance reviews, nothing. It was just, I know you don't want to work here, and I don't want you to work here either, so goodbye.

Wow. The other side of that is there are a few industries starving for educators more than the education profession, right? Can you have a job by January heading into another school? Even if it's not your ideal job, I don't want this job, but it's a job, and you're going to do a great job.

Yeah, and that's what I'm working on. I actually am hoping to get one that will start at the end of January. That's a bigger, more of a career thing, but I am looking at temporary holdover, seasonal, anything.

But I also want you at McDonald's. Yeah, I mean, at this point. You need a job, right?

Yeah.

You need a job. I think it's easy to be like, I'm an educator, I'm an administrator. This is what I do. I'm a headmaster. Well, you got to get a job, right? You need some money.

Right, right.

In the meantime, let's pick out some of the holiday, retail, hospitality shifts so that you can keep your home afloat. What are your monthly expenses right now?

Monthly expenses? Oh, gosh, it's pretty heavy, but I've already gone through… I'm actually looking at my every dollar right now on my computer. But I would say that I've gone through and reduced everything that I could possibly do. I've reached out to my cell phone company, and they actually gave me a credit for a month. I've reached out to my son's daycare and they're helping me out. I've reached out to my auto insurance, adjusted a little bit of the rates, but not the property damage because I can't let go of at least having enough to cover a car, if God forbid, there's an accident. But I've reduced that to bring down my insurance payment by about $100 a month.

Are we talking 4,000 a month would run the house? What's the number now that you've.

Reduced it all? I would say about 4,000.

Okay. Well, even with this over-indexed starter emergency fund, you're only going to last a month here.

Yeah.

That scares me on top of, are you a single mom?

Yes, I am.

Okay, that scares me even more. We need to get a job, probably two or three ASAP in order to keep the lights on, keep them at daycare so you can be at work for 50, 60 hours a week until we get back to that dream job or that job in your profession back to making six grand a month take home, because then this debt is going to be paid off soon. It's not really a debt problem here. As far as budget right now, it is four walls. It's food, utilities, shelter, transportation, insurance. That is it. Everything else you can survive without for a month or two or three.

Right.

I should take.

It out of that emergency fund, though.

You.

Don't have.

Another option. Yeah, right now, I would try to not touch that. I would go get a job and try to create $4,000 of income in the next 30 days to cover this. But in the meantime, if you absolutely need to, yes, dip into the emergency fund. The key is don't go further into debt compounding the problem.

How old are your kids? Five. Five. I don't recommend any of these things I'm saying. I'm just saying some of the creative things that we've seen on the show, where people will put their five-year-old, and I made that number up, but put their young child in the back seat of a car, and they'll listen to books on CDs or through audible or something like that. They will sing and they will deliver food because that's what they have to do. This is not how you drew this up, but this is where you find yourself. My fear for you is it sounds like, Yeah, it was time. This hurts and this stings, and it's the freaking holidays. This is not the moment for the mom of a five-year-old to not have a job. I mean, it's hard, right? It's scary. I don't want that to turn into inertia and turn into, Well, I'm going to find this fancy job. Go get a couple of jobs right now. And it's just ego. It's got to go out the door. This is about survival for the next 60 days, 90 days. The other job will come.

And Marie, hang on the line. I'm going to take one less expense out of your life. We're going to pay for one year of every dollar premium so that you can get on a plan and get through this season. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz.

I'm so excited.

To announce that our Ramsey Christmas Cash.

Giveaway is back.

That's right. It's your chance to win $5,000. Just go to ramseysolutions. Com/giveaway and enter daily to increase your chances.

Plus, you can shop our brand new.

Meaningful gifts, including my new children's book, the limited edition Navy Wallets, and Dr. John Deloney's Christmas conversation cards, all for as low as $10 at ramseysolutions. Com/store. Welcome to The.

Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Here's a friendly reminder that we are located just south of Nashville, Tennessee, here at the Ramsey Solutions headquarters. We love having guests visit us. We've got some lovely folks from all over the country. Even met a nice fellow from Sweden, John.

Guys.

Amazing. Incredible. You are welcome to show up. You can watch the show live. You can get free fresh-baked cookies and latte and all of that. We've got a bookstore. There's a little museum timeline wall. We made it a really fun experience. If you want to pop through, if you're in town for some reason or nearby, we'd love to have you during the holidays. Caitlin joins us up next in Sacramento, California. Caitlin, what's going on?

Hi, George. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. I just have a quick question. I'm currently in baby step number two. I'm working on my debt snowball. I have a good old Sally May loan that my dad co-signed on with me. And I'm just curious. My dad has been asking me about it, and I'm still trying to work through my snowball. I have a couple of smaller things ahead of it. But since he's been asking me about it, he's asked me to make it a priority and paying that off. I just wanted your guys' opinion on if I should move that up in my debt snowball, knock it out, and then go back the way it's intended, or have a conversation with my dad, let them know what my estimated timeline is, and go from there.

Where does it currently fall in the debt snowball?

I have about two smaller credit cards in front of it.

So when do you think you get there? Is this like six months from now?

Yeah, I was thinking July or August, just depending on bonuses from work and things like that.

That's when you'd start on that debt?

That's when I would be done with paying that debt off. Okay.

I would communicate that with him and say, Hey, Dad, I'm following this plan. This is a proven plan that I know is going to get me out of debt. I'm very committed to this. I commit to paying off this debt that I took out, even though you signed it, and here's the date I plan on.

Why is he being dramatic about it?

Well, he actually also follows you guys, and he did the Financial Peace University at our church when I was in high school. Since then, he had paid off all of his debt and then fell back into it. He's trying to work on his stuff while I work on mine. He just wants to make sure all of his teeth are crossed and eyes are dotted.

He's taking out his shame and angst on you. He made a decision that he knew at the moment he was doing it was going to create a rift in your relationship with him. By the way, I put this on the parents 100% of the time. You're a kid. It's not your job to manage your parents. It's your job to push up against boundaries and see if they hold. You did, and his boundaries, he caved, and he's co-signed. He feels embarrassed and stupid about it. He used to teach people to never do that, and he did it. Now he's trying to make himself feel better by weighing on you. Because he has a context, I would tell him, Dad, I'm following this plan to a T. I'll have you paid off in June or July. Yeah. I wouldn't have any more conversation. My friend, Jefferson Fisher, we talk about it all the time. There is power in the pause. The person who talks last loses. This is the conversation. Ta-da, I will have you paid off in July.

Got you. But when you say that, Kaitlin, that's your word. That's your integrity on the line, and so you better have that thing paid off by July. That's going to light a fire under you to get paid off early. Shock them. It's going to be May, and you're going to be like, Here, dad, it's gone. Here's the letter. It's paid off. But right now, this is hurting the relationship. That's one of the reasons, one of the many reasons we tell family members never to cosign debt for other family members. It always hurts the relationship.

Well, in this particular situation, tell me if I'm wrong, I don't want to talk bad about your dad, he's on the phone, but it sounds like he is using this as a vehicle for hurting the relationship. It seems like there's no reason for this to hurt the relationship right now.

Yeah, it wasn't ever... He didn't bring it up to me with any malicious intent… We have a pretty good relationship. I talk to him because I have him as a partner in this. I've talked to him about my debt snowball, and he talked to me about his, and I just brought up that I had this student loan still outstanding, and he didn't bring it up pushy or anything like that. When he signed it for me, he signed it with… I graduated last June, June 2022, and he said that it would be a priority. He would co-sign as long as it was a priority after I graduated, regardless of the student loan pause and all of that, because it's private. He just said, This is your priority after you graduate. Since then, I've been working on following you guys' plan, the debt snowball, all of that. It's coming up. It's not too far away. It was more so of a reminder like, Hey, you said this would be a priority.

Oh, I think you tell him, Absolutely, it is. It's just in the right order. It's very much a priority. You want it to be priority number one. For me, it's priority number three, but it's a priority. We will get it taken care of, I promise. Yeah, it's easy as that. Thanks for the call, Kyle. I'm glad to know he's not hassling you. It doesn't sound like he's a bad guy. It sounds like he's just he had a picture of what priority meant, and you had a picture of what priority meant, and you all just need to align that.

That's good. All right, let's move on to Matt in Charlottesville, Virginia. Matt, what's going on?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking the call. Sure. All right, so just discovered this whole thing about a couple of months ago. I've on baby step two, me and my wife got about $400,000 in debt right now.

Is that consumer debt or does that include your mortgage?

We have a home equity line of credit and the rest of it is consumer debt, credit cards, cars, a boat, jet skis, just a bunch of stupid purchases I've made over the years.

All right. How can we help?

All right. So like I said, we're on Babyset, too. I'm just trying to figure out where do I start if I need to sell a couple of things that we don't necessarily need but we like.

A lot of things. A lot of things.

I think everything can go at this point.

Pretty much all of it.

I think you stop liking them when they become a burden in your life because you can't afford the payments and you don't even get to enjoy them.

You owe half a million dollars in your houses on the block. You sell everything.

Yeah. I can afford the payments technically, right?

It's just- Don't care about the payments.

We started doing this. Yeah, we started doing this. It's just you look at that amount of debt and.

You're like, Holy crap. Please tell me you guys make a buttload of money.

So yeah, I make around $18,000 a month. My wife makes around $4,000 a month.

Is that gross? So you're making 22k gross per month?

That's take-home.

Yeah, after take-home. Okay, well, that helps.

That's a good salary, but you're not setting the world on fire.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like I said, I see that amount of debt.

I'm like, Oh, right. Yeah, trucks go, boat goes, jet skis go. When you get out of debt and then you can afford these things. You can go back and buy them with cash, but you can't afford them. They're depreciating assets that are making you guys make too much money to be this broke.

Yeah, no doubt. You can buy them with cash later on at a discount because you're about to sell these at a discount. You know that good and well, my friend. Here's the thing. You can wait and keep all of your toys and you can pay off $400,000 in debt. You guys make $260,000 take home. My guess is, though, you have $15,000 in expenses every month.

Yeah, it's.

A lot. Then you only have five or six left over to throw with the debt. You got 400, man. I mean, do some simple math. You're a smart guy. It's going to take forever at this rate. That's why we're telling you, if you can sell off $150,000 worth of this stuff and have 250 to stare down and be throwing 15,000 at it and be living off of five to cover your household expenses, now we start to get this ball rolling. I want to see you out of this debt in two or three years.

Right, yeah. That's my thought. I need to get my wife probably on board with it, but yeah.

The way you do that is you sit down with your wife and not like, Here's the plan we're going to do. You sit down with your wife and say, I'm so scared. I can't breathe. Will you go with me on an adventure for a couple of years so we can get this family to be safe? Because right now we're not safe.

Thanks for the call, man. Sorry you guys are going through this, but it's a solvable problem, but it's going to take some sacrifice. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my co-host, Dr. John Deloney, all the folks in the booth and you, America, will be back before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney this hour, and it's a free call at triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five. You dial those digits and we can get you on the line and help you with whatever conundrum life has thrown at you. Maybe you just need some confirmation to take the right next step with a little more confidence. We can help you there. Veronica starts us off this hour in Sacramento. Veronica, what is happening with you?

A lot, a lot. I need.

Some help. We can do that. Give me some more specifics.

I've had a pretty crazy life, but I'm a young mom. I have four kids, married, crazy up until now. I feel like I finally got to the point where I've created some stability, which is fantastic. However, I have built a lot of debt, and I came up with this, or I have this opportunity to buy my home that I'm currently in. My parents had bought it with the idea that one day when my husband and I are ready, our credit's ready, our income's ready, we can take over the mortgage by this house. However, my parents have said, you know what? They want to buy other properties. They have a lot of stuff they want to do. They would like me to take it over within a calendar year. Now, my credit is in the tanker strictly because really high credit usage. I have 100 % payment history, but everything is maxed out. I pay all my bills on time, but I have really high interest rates on everything, and I just can't seem to get out of it. I'm getting really concerned that I will not be able to take over this mortgage because my credit will not be up to par in time.

I don't think your credit is the issue here. I think the issue is that you're broke and you're not ready to be a homeowner. This opportunity is really just a curse in disguise.

Think.

About this opportunity as a light on your dashboard, telling you that you're out of gas. The issue is your car is out of gas, not that there's a light on.

I'm going to give you a little bit backing on the house. The current mortgage value is at 400,000, and it's currently valued at about 630,000. My father is willing to get this to me, I guess, and correct me if I'm incorrect, but there's some way to sell to your child that you can sell at the current mortgage value. I don't know. There's the whole thing he wants to do. Pretty much just give me this 200 grand in equity.

He is saddling you with $400,000 of debt.

Right.

Hold.

On, stop. We make a substantial amount of money. I need to figure out how to pay off all of my debt so that I can clear my slate and be able to take over this mortgage. I pay the mortgage now, plus some.

Are they giving you a discounted rent?

No, the mortgage is about $2,600 and I pay $3,000.

Hey, Veronica, how much do you make?

Well, our whole household is about $190,000 a year.

Okay, so with that number, you just proved my point, Georgia's point, Dave Ramsey's point, all of our point. Money is very rarely a math problem.

It's a.

Psychology problem. And so, yes, you would be getting $200,000 in instant equity. It doesn't matter because you cannot control your spending. Actually, you can. You have chosen not to control your spending.

Yeah. Well, I feel like I've really, really had... It's hard to explain without being able to explain to you my whole past, but I know you don't have time. But I've gotten to the point in the last couple of years where I feel like I've reached a different point of maturity where I'm like, Okay, I need to get my stuff together. I need to get my spending under control. Have you? Yeah, this last year, actually, I've paid off roughly $20,000 just.

This last year. Awesome.

Yeah, but now there's this time constraint, and I'm getting really worried because I don't want to lose my house.

How much.

Do you owe?

In total debt? All of your debt outside of... Well, you don't have a mortgage. So how much all your debts?

All of my debt, including student loans and medical bills, it's about $100,000. Okay.

You make $190,000? Yeah. What's your mortgage?

The rent that we're paying my father is $3,000. The actual mortgage itself.

Is $2,600. All right, so that's $190 minus $36. You can pay it off in a year or get pretty close.

Yeah. I just need to work that out because my living expenses beyond my mortgage is roughly $9,000. Besides my rent, it's $9,000. How? Because I have four kids, so groceries each week is like $600, just groceries by itself.

We have a long ways to go to $9,000.

That's twice $2,400 a month in groceries.

Yeah. Hold on, I have this all written down right here. Okay. So my total current expenses with all of my debt is roughly $12,500, minus the mortgage puts us at what? 95. And so considering that I have the $2,400 in groceries, I have our phone bill, my electricity, my PGN bill just the other month was like $800, and they've raised the rates consistently.

What you're telling us, your life is really expensive. I want to remind you being a homeowner is even more expensive than being a renter, and you guys don't have any money. Here's the peaceful way to do this. You go to your parents and say, Hey, thank you for this opportunity, but right now we can't afford it. We have a goal to pay off all of this debt, then we need to have a six-month emergency fund, then we need to save up a down payment so that we can become homeowners the right way. That might mean you guys have to go somewhere else to rent if they're going to need to sell this place because they need the money. But that's the decision that they need to make.

Yeah, that's just harder because $3,000, I'm not going to be able to get a house here for that. I'm in California.

Veronica, you want A plus B to equal 432. The only path forward for you is to own reality. Choose reality. You choose a life, and I'm using that word intentionally, and I know it's inflammatory, but I'm doing it on purpose. You're a life that costs $9,500 a month not including your house, period. That's a choice you make.

End of story. That's all the debt that I've built included. I know. I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of.

But some of it starts with trying to find every way to cut our grocery bill in every way. We're just not going to eat organics. We're not going to do this. We are not eating out for one calendar freaking year. The only way George and I hear people get out of debt like this is when they go scorched to Earth and you're trying to, Well, you know, you can't. You will stay in the same mess, same exact mess. You make way too much money to not be able to afford this house right now. And you're not willing, it doesn't sound like on the phone to say, Enough is enough is enough. I'm pouring all the alcohol out. I'm never going to a bargain. I'm sober starting now. You don't want to do that. You want it to be like, Well, I like this. You got to choose one or the other. One or the other. Hang on.

The line, Brock. I'm going to send you one of Financial Peace University to show you guys that proven plan. All right, let's cut to the chase.

It's easy.

To get.

Discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and.

Sell the right way, you'll.

Have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling.

They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent.

Near you.

At.

Ramseysolutions. Com/agent.

Ramseysolutions.

Com/agent.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined here by my good friend, Dr. John Deloney. It's a free call at Triple 8, 825-5225. Melanie is up next in Philadelphia. Let's see what Melanie has to say. What's going on?

Hey, guys, thank you so much for taking my call. It's nice to talk to both.

Of you.

You as well. Thank you. First, let me just start out. My husband and I did the first time that we're doing a budget. We just finished FPU. Awesome. We're on baby step two. Yeah, excited about that.

Welcome to the gang.

Yeah, we're excited about it. I love Christmas time. It's my favorite time of the year. I'm always go all out to do all the stops that I have to put myself in debt because of Christmas in the past. But this year, I guess, because the first time we're actually doing a budget, I feel really constrained this Christmas season. I don't have the same that I've had in the past with having to put up my tree yet, which is odd for me because we always do it right after Thanksgiving. And I just can't get myself to just be in the spirit this year. And I feel like it has to do with the fact that we're budgeting and I'm not just doing the whole free for all Christmas thing. And I have super anxiety this year, and I'm struggling with what to do with that.

Where do you think the anxiety is from? Is it from you want to do it right? No, I have anxiety.

Anyway, but this season I'm just like, I can't get myself into the spirit this year. I'm looking at the budget and we have a budget set aside for Christmas shopping, so it's not that we don't have the money. But something about this year just feels different.

You want to pull it apart real quick? I'm sorry? You want to pull it apart real quick?

This is the first time I've actually seen where my money goes. We have a lot of debt. I have taken on a second job. That's it.

Right there. -on a two-full-time job. So anxiety is just an alarm system. And for the first time ever, you turned all the lights on in your house, you turned all the music off to the dance, and you looked like... I always tell people, step one of creating a world that's not so anxious all the time, a body that's not so riddled with anxiety all the time is choosing reality. What is the state of my marriage? What's the state of my relationship with my kids? What's the state of my job? What's the state of my finances? You did that. You realized, My body's been trying to get my attention for a long time because we're not safe. We owe a lot of money. The way you used to make yourself feel good was buying people things. You're a great gift giver, aren't you?

Yeah. You are. I try to be.

Yeah, and now you've chosen reality. Reality is awful because the way you gave yourself an identity was you were a great gift giver, except that wasn't real money. It was borrowed money.

Yeah.

Now your body feels anxious because it knows just how bad things are. There's a dollar amount to it.

I want you to reframe it. Your anxiety is working perfectly. Your body is working great. It knows you're not safe. Now you've just entered into a holiday where everyone tells you, You're supposed to just go crazy and spend, and you're only worth what you give other people, and your kids are only going to love you as much as the stuff you buy them. Your kids will be so grateful that they got a peaceful mom on the back end of this deal.

Yeah.

So your body is working great. I think it's you grieving. I used to blow a bunch of money and spend it like this, and I'm not going to be able to do that this year. Because that stinks. It does. It's not great. But it's reality, right? Yeah. How much do you all owe?

$204,154.

Yeah, you're probably real anxious, huh?

Yeah, we've been fortunate. We paid a few thousand of that all. So we're there. We know it's not-.

Is that all.

Consumer debt? Yes. That's not a house.

Okay, so what is the two or four made up of? Is that credit cards, car loans, student loans? They are.

So $132,000 is student loans between my husband and myself, and we have cards and credit card.

Okay, what's your household income?

Growth or net?

Net.

Net is $144.

Good. Okay, so we have a great income.

I.

Think if we sold these cars, you would have less anxiety.

Yeah, I know. I knew you were going to say that to me.

Merry.

Christmas. Amputate the Tahoe.

Merry.

Christmas. How much are the car loans? Total, what do they add up to?

I owe $7,000 on one that my adult child, she actually pays that one. Then I have one that's 21 and the other one is 28.

Okay, so if I just handed you $50,000, would it release some of the anxiety that's on your shoulders? If I just got rid of a quarter of your debt tomorrow?

Yeah, of course it would.

I think that's part of it. You need to see that there's actually hope here because knocking out a few thousand dollars is great. But when you still have 204 to go and that's not even including your mortgage, it just feels like a death March. Part of getting rid of this anxiety is knowing this isn't going to be a 10-year journey for us. We're going to do this in three years because we make $150,000 net, bringing home $12,000 a month and it disappears to lenders every month. That's the source of the anxiety, not the lack of presence under the tree.

How old are your kids?

I have a 23-year-old, a 10-year-old, and a three-year-old. They're pretty.

Far apart from me. They are. I would take my 10-year-old out and have an honest conversation. That in the past, Mommy's bought a whole bunch of presents. This year, Daddy and I are going to not owe anybody any money. We're going to be very intentional, so there's going to be fewer presents this year. But we're going to do a couple of cool things together. The three-year-old is just going to go, and then you can have that same conversation with your old one. But being intentional, again, here's what you're doing. Your body's craving, craving, craving direction. So giving yourself some little wins here, I had this conversation. I hated it. It was hard. It's a conversation I never wanted to have with my kid because my husband and I, we make a ton of money. But I had it anyway because we haven't been good stewards of this money. With my three-year-old dad, you could get a three-year-old, you could wrap up individual bags of leaves that you got from the yard, and they'll have fun with that. Exactly. And then your older one, you could say, Hey, we didn't model this well for you. We modeled how to work really hard because we did, and we modeled how to get great jobs because we did, but we did not model how to be a good steward of this money.

George and I are going to hook you up with Financial Peace University for just you guys, and we're going to give you one that you can give to your oldest child.

That's great. Thank you so much.

But you're going to have... George, you're going to have to get radical about it.

Okay. Can I show you the math on this, Melanie? Some napkin math will change your life right now. If you get rid of these cars, it'll take your debt down to about 150,000, right?

You.

Need to get some beater cars, of course. But 150,000 in consumer debt, you guys take home 144. Could you live off 70 and put 75 toward the debt every year? Yes. That becomes, we're debt free in 24 months. In two years, our life completely changes. Now we bring home $12,000 a month and we don't have lenders that have spoken for this money. Two years. How old are you guys?

I'm 42 and my husband's 45.

That's amazing. At 44 and 47, you guys are completely debt-free. Probably six months later, 12 months later, your six months emergency fund will be there. You'll be investing for the future. You'll be maxing out retirement accounts. You'll be covering your kids, the younger kids, they're going to be going to college debt-free because of the sacrifices mom and dad made this Christmas.

The question is not can we do this until we're 44? The question is, I'm going to be 44. Do I want to be debt-free when I'm 44 or not? That's the question.

I.

Think you can. Well, George and I both know you can because we've walked that same walk. By the way, it's miserable. It's so not fun. I know. It's the worst. It's so hard.

It's the worst.

It's so hard. It is. But I'm telling you, on the other side of it.

It's probably one of the toughest things I've ever had to go through. But a reality check.

I know, but those kids, man, those kids are going to absorb your attention.

You know what's harder is when you call back 20 years from now and we get this call, we've gotten it this week, and the person says, I'm 59. We haven't taken care of our money, and now it feels like it's too late, and we can never get out of this. They were a half million dollars in consumer debt. That's where this thing will just continue compounding. If we continue with this outrageous spending and not getting control and not making the sacrifices. It's worth the side hustles. It's worth the emptinessiness under the tree and just connect as a family this year and have the honest conversations, do the hard things. Two years from now, your life is completely different. The next 40 years, you get freedom. That's a good math equation. That's worth it every single time. Hang on the line. We're going to send you those two Financial Peace Universities, one for you and your husband, one for the oldest kid, and they'll start to get it and go, Mom and dad, I'm with you. We're cheering you on.

What's up, guys?

It's Jade Warshaw. Now, tell me the truth. Are you just watching the expenses rack up.

And wondering how on earth you're.

Going to make it through the holidays?

But.

I've got the secret ingredient that's going to help you find some breathing room. It's an every dollar budget. Guys, this works because you make a plan for every single dollar and you know exactly where you stand before the month even begins. You can get.

Started for free.

Just head to everydollar. Com or download the app from the App Store today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. As you head into the weekend, I want to remind you guys we have some new things happening at ramseysolutions. Com in the store. We have a great new kids book from our friend Rachel Cruz that's beautifully illustrated. A new book from Jade Warsaw, her first book, a quick read, is out called Money is Not a Math Problem, the 2024 Ramsey goal planner, that includes my friend Dr. John Deloney. And, of course, my new book called Breaking Free from Broke. It's a very exciting cover, John. It's so bright. Some would say jarringly bright because I want it to stand out in the crowd. It's very humorous. I'd worked hard to make it not only research-driven, but also humor-driven. There's a lot of music references. There's even, I think, three John Deloney references.

That's why I bought it.

That's why you did it, John. I bought it. If you want to break free from this toxic money system, whether that's you pointing at inflation or the guy in the White House, or it's the credit card companies, this book is going to help you just take back control and stop pointing fingers and just start holding up a mirror and going, How am I going to do this? How am I going to live life without a credit score, without credit card debt, without student loans? How do I just live with more freedom, more margins, more options, and more peace? You can preorder it at ramseysolutions. Com/store. And when you do that, you'll get a hundred bucks worth of bonus items for free, including the e-book, the audiobook, and way more. Let's get to the phones. Tony joins us in Houston, Texas, up next. Tony, we love Houston.

Hello. How are you doing? Not too bad. I guess I have a question about bankruptcy. How do you figure out when is the best time to actually consider or file for bankruptcy? The current situation is, I was recently in a wreck and pretty much destroyed my fiancé's car, which she had coverage for. I had my own insurance too, but both of our insurance company had denied coverage. And now I'm stuck with an extra car payment every month for a car that's not usable, can't even sell it. If I were to sell it, it would only be worth roughly $2,000 or something for the junk file that it is now, compared to the $26,000 I owe on it. I guess I'm trying to figure out when would be the best time to consider bankruptcy.

Not in this situation.

Okay. 99% of people who call in saying, I think I need to file bankruptcy, absolutely don't. What they really need is hope and a plan, because right now life is scary. Because you're broke, you've got this car situation, you can't afford this payment, and you feel like there's nowhere left to turn. Hopefully, by the end of this call, we can give you a few next steps that will help you get out. But none of it's going to be easy or fun. There's no shortcuts here. Right. Tell us about the whole financial picture. Have you tried to appeal for this coverage? What was the situation where they denied coverage completely?

It was like a financial mess. What it was, I was excluded on her policy for her to keep her premiums now. We didn't really understand what that meant until now. Then my insurance is denying coverage because that vehicle, I have cosigned on it, and they considered that I am part owner and that wasn't under my policy. So both the insurance company has the rule and the local announced, the only hope I would think now is that I can minimize it because I did have gap insurance on that vehicle and then we got it from the dealership. But if they deny coverage from the gap insurance, I'm stuck paying this $26,000 and we had to get her a second car, which they managed to approve. And she has a second car, which is now another high paying me a month. So we're making technically three car payments now. And on top of all our other rent, because we rent, we don't own a home, but we have our rent and our other living expenses.

So you guys are living together. Have you combined finances or are they still separate?

The.

Card or- Your bank accounts. Her debt, your debt, your bank, her bank.

Yeah, there right now we have two separate bank accounts, but I've started putting my deposits in her bank account, so we have our bank account and I have my old bank account.

We need to keep our life separate right now. She needs to worry about her debt. You need to be worried about your debt. Now you have this new payment on the line here. What other debt do you have?

Well, we have roughly about, I would say, 5,000 in credit card debt.

Okay, and then how much total in the car debt?

The total car debt between the two cars and my car, probably $55,000, maybe average total.

Any other debt?

The rent's $1,150, probably another, I want to say, maybe a thousand just to cover all our groceries for.

The month. But that's not debt. I'm just talking about payments that you owe outside of your rent and normal bills.

Right, okay. But besides that, just to total monthly bills, I guess, would say to roughly going to be about 1,300, 1,400 just for the three car payment. Then, like I said, the 1,150 for the rent.

How much you make? What's your salary?

Well, right now, I just started a new job. I'm making more income than I had did. How much? -so I was hoping that maybe… But I make 15, 15 an hour at roughly 40 hours a week, between $30 and $35 and 40 hours a week. And she makes, I think it's 11 or 1,200 every two weeks from her paycheck.

So the first thing that has to happen, and there's not really discussion about this, dude, or you're going to continue to be underwater, is you're going to have to sell both of your cars, and you're going to have to get $1,000 cars that your friends laugh at you about. That's the only chance you got. You all cannot afford two car payments on nice cars. You don't make enough money. On top of you got a third car that you got to pay off. Because yeah, you all got to take in advantage of, man. You signed something you didn't really understand. I hate that happen to you all. It's just like a suck tax. It just is. But man, you don't make nearly enough money. Well, let me put it this way. George and I don't even use car payments. I'm not going to make those dudes rich off my back. I'm just not going to do it. You all got to sell your cars, man. Do what you got to do and get that debt out of your life, man.

That's the only change you got. Are you underwater on all three? Obviously, the one you are with that lease situation. The other two, are they underwater? You owe more than their worth?

No, yeah. The new one starts payments this month, so we were able to buy some time. Then my other payment starts again because I managed to refinance the car because that bank that the car that I told, had a lien on my car, but I've refinanced it to take the lien off of it, so they wouldn't try to repossess it.

And you're current on all the payments?

In your life? As of right now, we're technically current on all payments.

Well, what George means by underwater is how much do you owe on your wife's new car?

That loan, I think, was another $26,000, I believe.

Good God. How much is the car worth?

I don't know. Maybe, I don't know, $26,000 is relatively new. It's a 2020 Equinox.

Well, the goal here is that you're not underwater, meaning the car is still worth $26 or more and you could sell it and get out from under this payment and get something real cheap. So you're at one right now. You need 1,000 bucks in the bank for you. Right now, you guys aren't married. She needs to worry about her debt. You need to worry about your debt. The goal is for both of you to become debt-free. But combining bank accounts and both of you making bad financial decisions that you're both liable for, we got to quit that. No more cosigning, no more refinancing, no more consolidation. I got a plan. The only way out of this is to get out of this, and that's selling the cars, getting the income up, cutting expenses down to nothing, and no more debt. Just tell yourself, debt is not an option. What am I going to do if debt did not exist?

That means making 15, 15 an hour and then going to Walmart after you get off that shift and throwing boxes until 2:00 AM, and going home and sleeping until 6:45, and being at your job at 7:30, and doing the whole thing over again. You got to get this 26,000 car paid off. You got to get some cash in the bank. But, man, you all just got to quit making these choices. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Financial Peace University. I want you all to watch these classes together, please. There are nine lessons that will change your freaking life if you'll do it. Do not file bankruptcy. That's not the solution to your problem.

Thanks for the call, Tony. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, our scripture of the day, Luke 16:10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Kyle Chanler said, Opportunity does not knock. It presents itself when you beat down the door. Thank you for that, Kyle. Appreciate that motivation. Kim is up next in Baltimore. Kim, what is happening in your world?

Hi, John. Hi, Kim. How are you guys doing?

Doing well. Great. What's up?

Hi, I have a question for you all. We have had an incredible year as far as our home, our work-life, and even we've taken in a beautiful foster kiddo that we'll be adopting. It's awesome. And we've seen some great strides. We are just trying to figure out and balance what is appropriate in the financial world for spending for Christmas to keep our kids humble and content, but also allow them to just know how appreciative we are.

What an amazing question. So when you say a great year, do you mean financially, you all had a good windfall year?

Yeah, we retired from the military, got a fantastic job. I've moved closer to family. Yeah, windfall, we've paid off all of our debt this year. We got the every dollar app. We've been budgeting. It's been a great year. We're finally investing 15 %. For the first time in a long time, we're in our early 40s. Yeah, it's just been a really... It's been a great year financially, work-wise, work-home balance, and even just in our family dynamics.

How old are your kids?

We have our oldest is in college, ranging down to a one-year-old.

How many?

Six. Four.

How many are foster kids? Just one. Just one. Can I just take a moment to make this all about me for a second? Is that okay? Kelly is producing the show today because James is out and Kelly produces my show. We talked yesterday how my show has been so heavy lately, and it's been harder and harder to hang in there. I need you to know that talking to you for 60 seconds has turned the light back on for me. I'm going to smile all the way home. You give me hope that moms and dads and neighbors and brothers and sisters are out there changing the world and all the doom and gloom is not real. Thank you. It's awesome.

Yeah, it's been a year where we've seen our children grow incredibly leaps and bounds emotionally and physically and just their love for other people. We want to make sure that we invest in into them that contentment heart, which they're incredibly amazing children. But also we want to lavish them this Christmas, but we don't want to overindulge. We're trying to figure out where our balance is between that.

I'll tell you what I do with my kids, okay? Here's how I balance it. I have a 13-year-old and a seven-year-old. Your kids are a little bit older and a little bit younger, and probably you have around that age too. I'll tell you with my 13-year-old. I had another for a second year in a row another number one bestselling book. I got the numbers yesterday on the questions for humans. They did really well. I had a good year, okay? My 13-year-old A, I talk to them, not numbers. I don't give him details, but I tell them... In fact, I told him this morning on the way to school, I dropped him off at school. This is a year where we were truly, truly blessed.

And.

Last month, I gave him the check to hand to our church that was far and excess of what it normally is. I also ask him to participate in tipping the waitresses and the waiters at the Waffle House, and we go every Tuesday. Whenever somebody comes in in a uniform, I make sure he knows they're not allowed to pay when they're around me. Absolutely. The both-and is, I am explaining, we're blessed this year, so you're going to get a really cool thing. A cool thing as a dad when you have a great year is that I get to really spoil you in by you gift A or gift B or gift C. This is what giving looks like in the wild. I want him to see both and. Then next year, if we have a tough year, then we're going to tell him, Hey, we didn't have a good year this year. I've got that conversation going with him. With the younger one, she doesn't even know up from that. I give her a lot more, She's really going to be worried about... She doesn't know. She doesn't know, right? So some of that is just her watching us tip well, care for people well, point out things.

My wife and the kids make bags for homeless folks when we pull up, people asking, we can give them things in the winter. So they get it through example. I think the meta lesson here is kids don't listen to you. They watch you.

More is caught than talk. They say that a lot. I think what John's getting at here is if you're not raising an entitled kid, giving them a gift is not going to all of a sudden make them an entitled kid. Not going to ruin. Do you have a number amount in your head of like, Hey, we want to spend this, or is it, We want to get each kid the thing that they really want and it's going to be $100? Because kids don't really have a concept of how much things cost until they're older. When I was a kid, I'd get a video camera and a guitar, and looking back, I'm like, That was like $500 for that thing. That's amazing. But it didn't make me spoiled, you know what I mean? What is causing you to think that?

Well, we've never had... We've never had a year like this. I vote my husband jokes because I'm always a very even-steed person. I'm like, If you have five gifts, you get five gifts. I don't care if they're cheaper gifts or whatever. This year, my husband said, Can we just pick a dollar amount? Because obviously, our older son, he's in college, and his thingings are a lot more than a one-year-old thing. We're just.

Trying to find the correct valid. Talk to your kid about it. -the correct balance. You're going to teach your kid your thought process about how you give and how youhow you show love and care and appreciation, how you do Christmas gifts. So tell your older one, Hey, we're giving everybody a dollar amount this year. Your stuff is way more expensive because you don't like card games or whatever. He'll get that. The younger ones won't. They'll just look at number of things and shiny and plastic and what you see what I'm saying? I would have the conversation with the older one.

Okay. His college was a lot more expensive than everybody else's.

It's okay for him to be like, Well, that sucks. I want a Christmas present. Because he's still.

A kid. He's not going to have an emotional meltdown like a two-year-old would. Right. He got five gifts and I got four.

Yeah, it's like, Hey, you got college. But here's the thing. If he finds that out Christmas morning, that's, I don't know. I don't say it's not cool.

But- Oh, never.

-it would be worth being like, Hey, your college cost 100 grand this year, and that bought three books and a meal plan with the current college prices. So your Christmas is going to look different. He'll go, All right, I get it.

Okay.

By the way, you're not going to… The fact that you're asking this question tells me your kids are so far from entitled. It sounds like you haven't had this security in a long, long time than you want to make sure you dot every I and cross every T. Let me tell you, love your kids. You're great. You are great, great, great.

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you guys.

You too. You're not Absolutely. You're not going to mess this thing up, I promise you.

Thank you.

Parent of the year right there, John. That's a beautiful way to end this hour. It was just reminding me. I did this podcast here called The Fine Print on Ramsey Network, and I interviewed you, John, for our episode on holiday spending. I was trying to pull it up to let the people know. There's some great encouragement there for Kim as well. It was called, here it is, Will Overspending skyrocket this holiday season due to the supply chain disaster? In that episode, we talked about how to deal with the boundaries issue of like, Hey, life's expensive. Inflation hasn't cooled down the way we thought it would, and everything's still expensive, and we're all broke up to our eyeballs. It can look different this year. Maybe you set that dollar amount. Maybe, hey, we're going to get one thing for each kid instead of seven things for each kid this year. But I like setting the expectation and communicating the reasons behind it.

I love sitting down with my 13-year-old and saying, This is the year we've been blessed, which means we're going to give like crazy, and you're going to get something pretty cool, and I'm taking you on a trip. That's going to be factored into this thing, too. I want you to know that when it comes to Christmas morning, that trip isn't wrapped in a present, and it's going to feel weird, and you're not broken. I'm explaining to him as this thing goes, and he's going to go, Okay, all right. Yeah, he'll be disappointed that there's not 700 presents under the tree, but he's learning. That's not how my old man shows appreciation. Also, he talked to me about this. I knew this was coming. It's both end all the way too.

Well, usually the disappointment is on the other side of a lack of setting expectations and communicating. That's right. That's the key. A beautiful way to end the show. Thank you so much, Kim. That puts this hour of The Ramsey show in the books. My thanks to Dr. John Deloney. Kelly, our producer for today's show, crushing it. All the folks in there keeping the show afloat. And you, America. Just producing this thing. America's favorite, Kelly, holding it down. We'll be back before you know it. In the meantime, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously. Hey, folks, Dave here. You want to hear even.

More life-changing.

Content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey network.

App so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like The Ramsey Show, Smart Money, Happy Hour.

And The Dr.

John Deloney Show.

You'll get real talk about life, relationships.

Money, and your career.

Plus, the.

App lets you browse by topic like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want.

Whenever and.

Wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.