Live from the headquarters of Ramsay Solutions, this is the Ramsay show. It's where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. Triple 825-5225 is the phone number. It's your show, America. We're here to answer your questions. We're going to do it with some sass today because the sassiest co host I have when I'm always privileged to co host the Rangers show is George Campbell.

I won all words today, Ken, so thank you.

So you got snark. The snark and the sass. And so we have a lot of fun together. And George is going to kind of lead off on the money questions. Have you had anything related to work, income impact, feeling like you're getting passed over? What do I do? Entrepreneurial ideas, side hustle ideas, anything about that bigger shovel, which is how we refer to as a way to increase your income. I'm here to help with that as well. So let's take those calls. Triple 8825-5225. And coming up later in the show, a fun new thing that we're going to try. George and I, never been done before. Yeah, it's going to be great. It's going to have all of America talking.

Might get a Pulitzer prize for lucky.

That's in the wrong category.

Okay.

Pulitzer is just for books, but thank you for being here. Lincoln is up first in Orlando, Florida. Lincoln, how can we help?

Hey, yeah, my question is, my wife and I, we're going to be first time home buyers, but we're renting right now. We're trying to save up that down payment. I want to buy now. She wants to wait. We have about $80,000 saved up and we about $50,000. We save about $100,000 a year in net worth. So she wants to continue just to wait and just continue to build that nest egg. And I kind of want to jump into a house. So that's my question. What do we do?

The great conundrum. So you guys have no debt. The emergency fund. And there's this sort of discrepancy of, should we be investing hard or should we be saving for this house?

Exactly. Yeah.

Could you meet in the middle somewhere?

Yeah. Her middle is 50% of the House price that she's willing to buy. And I'm okay to do it now because I'm worried about house prices going up.

So what's your total liquid down payment you have outside of emergency fund non retirement?

60,000.

Okay. And what's the home price, you're looking at 300. And you've done the math on this to see, is this going to be about 25% of our take home pay?

Yeah, it'll be about 20%.

Okay. And that's on a 15 year or 3015 year. Wow. Way to go. What's your household income after tax?

Around 14,000 to 15,000 a month.

Wonderful. Okay, so if you guys bought now, you're doing it the Ramsay way and doing it the smart way. What's stopping you guys from continuing to invest once you're in this house?

Nothing. I mean, we would just pay it off. Our goal is to pay off our house in four years. So that would be the goal. But she just has a fear that houses have unknown costs, so she doesn't want to do it.

Well, the unknown costs are known. I mean, it's maintenance. Repairs, get a sinking fund. You guys have the emergency fund. You're not going to have a $60,000 surprise repair. If you do this the right way, you're going to get this thing inspected and appraised and all of that. And so I think a lot of this, there's a different fear happening here. And I don't know what's behind that.

Because I felt like it was all about she wanted a 50% down payment. Did I hear that right?

Yeah.

Which has nothing to do with the fear of unknown expenses.

Yeah. Her parents bought when she was growing up. They were really house poor, and so she doesn't want to get to that stage.

There it is. Ding, ding, ding.

So here's what you got to do. I think, George. I think you have to sit down with your wife, Lincoln, and go, okay, let's run the numbers based on where we are right now with a 20% down payment. And let's look at those numbers. And I'm talking, like, the real numbers. Show her in the budget, the whole nine yards. Show her the whole budget with this current situation. And then I think you run the same numbers on a 50% down payment. So it's 30% more down, and how that's going to lower your price. And you put that in the budget, and then you go to what George is saying, LinkedIn with the knowns, and go, okay, well, we're going to put aside this much anyway for house repairs, or we've got an emergency fund. I think she needs to see them side by side. George. There's one thing. For him to go, I want to do this, and I think it's fine. She's got such a deep seated fear there. I think the only way to get her on board, I'm curious to know what you think, George. Lincoln, I want you to weigh on this, is to show her those two budgets side by side, because it's not that big of a savings monthly.

Am I right?

Yes, I agree. And with the, you know, here's the thing, Lincoln. I'm thinking about with the housing market going the way it's been, what she also needs to be thinking about is 50% a year from now might be really a bigger chunk because that home value might go up. And you can look at home prices last three, four years. It is skyrocketed. And we know that history is going to show us home prices will continue to go up over time. And so it's going to be a moving target. And so we tell people the best time to buy a house is when you're financially ready. And you have checked every single box in the book today, my friend. And so you have Georgia's stamp of approval that you're doing this the right way, you're going to aggressively pay it off. How old are you two?

I'm 24 and she's 27.

Goodness. You guys are rock stars. You're crushing it.

Thank you.

And if you walk her through, here's the worst case scenario. Okay. What is she really worried about? If you dig into it, have her answer that question. Say, what are the repairs you're worried about? Okay. We're going to get a good roof inspection. This roof is going to last ten years. All right, let's check the HVAC.

All right.

That's going to be ten grand. If we had to replace the HVAC, those kinds of things. Putting facts on paper will help get rid of that sort of scarcity mentality that she's grappled with for a long time now.

So I did a little research, George.

That quickly?

This quickly? I like to do it. Now, this is a USA Today article. It's about two years old, but this is just a quick examination here, Lincoln. So we're going to go a lot deeper than this. But a quick search says that it might help to know that the average American spends $3,000 a year on home maintenance.

There we go.

Now, that's.

Again, that's an average.

It's an average.

Some spend less, some more.

So, Lincoln, if you're armed with that kind of information and you sit down to her and go, hey, look, here's the average, and we can go get some more updated information there, get two or three different quotes but if you look at that number and you're able to show her that, I think that would go a long way. Don't.

Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think she's fear of the unknown. And I'm a little afraid, too, because when we do dive into those numbers and the details, I want to buy a smaller house and she wants to get a bigger one. So she's like, well, if we just save more, we can get a better then. You know, that's a whole nother conversation.

Yeah, but you guys are young. Let me tell you what Stacey and I did. Stacey and I got what we thought was a fabulous little house for our first home. Wasn't a great house, wasn't even close to the dream house. And it was fine for what we needed at the time. It got us in there. We got some equity. We rolled that in. We moved to another state. Didn't get the dream house there. Got a better. So you guys are young and that's going to take care of itself. I guess I just want to focus on what George and I have been telling you, which is you've got to do a better job at casting vision around how this move is not going to result in her greatest fear coming true. That's all this is. This is less about money. This is more about understanding your wife's fears, appreciating them and answering them.

Yeah. And think about it this way. You got a paid for house four years from now.

Great.

That $300,000 house is now a $400,000 House up. We can now upgrade, maybe even in cash four years from now. You guys are in your early thirty s at that point. You're doing great, man.

And look, it's about $250 a month based on the average. And put that in your budget. Show her. Hey, babe. We're going to put $250 a month away for home repairs on top of the emergency. On top. Yeah.

That's safety. On safety.

Yeah.

You just have to address that. And I think she's going to be ready to go. But hey, great young couple, George.

Amazing.

They're in great, great shape. Good stuff. All right, don't move. More of your calls coming up. This is ThE Ramsey show.

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Find the path forward to making all of your relationships incredible. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp he lp.com deloney. Welcome back to the Ramsay show, where we help you win in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. Triple 825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. Triple 8825-5225 so I had a meeting this morning, george, around our new event called Total Money Makeover weekend. This is May 10 and eleven, and in just one weekend, what we're going to do in this event is give you the crash course on everything we teach about money. So you're going to hear brand new content from all of us Ramsay personalities on budgeting, beating debt, investing and making more money. I just went over my talk.

Today.

We're going to give you the formula to become rich.

You found the secret, yeah.

No, I didn't find it. I've studied it.

Does it involve work?

It does.

I'm less interested now. I was really hoping for a short.

I understand it's not a TikTok video. It's a talk. But it's going to be great.

Arbitrage and Airbnb or something.

You would think. But it does not involve any get rich quick scheme. But it will get you rich. That's all I'm going to say.

No schemes.

It's going to be fun. We'll do Q and A's throughout the time. I also saw something that I don't want to give it away, but Jade and I are going to be doing something fun that was inspired by the show.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. The american people want more of this.

I thought we were going to do our little barbershop quartet. Me, you, Jade and Deloney.

I'm unaware of this, but I'm open as long as I get to do the baritone part. Excuse me as I choke. Early bird tickets start at just $99 and they're going to go fast. We only have about 20. What is it? 25? 2600.

2400 is what the event center holds here at Ramsey.

Thank you for bailing me out. 2400 seats. It's going to sell out. And it's a destination deal. I mean, you get to come to Nashville. I mean, come on. It's fantastic. $99 is the early bird ticket price if you want to get the best deal on tickets. So get your tickets now@ramsaysolutions.com. Events ramsaysolutions.com events. And in all seriousness, because we have to talk about these things, but it's really going to be fun. I think it's going to be a fun day.

If you've been to a Ramsay event, you know, this is not a seminar, which sounds boring. This is something that you can bring your 17 year old to or the 67 year old to, and they're going to have a good time.

I think that's true. I think that's true. And George is going to be doing balloon animals.

I'll be out there twisting before the.

Event on Friday night. It's going to be a lot of fun. Inspired by a caller you and I took recently, one of our favorite calls all time. Kayla starts us off this segment in Minneapolis. Kayla, how can we help?

Hi. Well, I kind of lost my job, and I'm a mom of four, and I lost it in July, and I'm trying to figure out how to, I'm starting to drain my accounts for mortgage and stuff.

What happened?

I was very fine. Well, they downsized. What field are you in? July? Pardon?

What field are you in?

I was a CCR. I worked from home, actually, and I made very good money at doing it.

And what were you making?

Downsized. I was making about 40.

What has kept you from replacing that $40,000 income between July and now?

Oh, I've been trying. It's not easy. I'm out in the middle of nowhere. There's, like, not very many jobs around where I'm at.

Okay.

And so that's what I'm starting. And I'm picking up all these little tiny jobs here and there, try to keep the mortgage paid, but I'm running out of finances.

How much money are you making right now? Give us an idea of the last couple of months. Just a round figure.

The last couple of months, I've probably made $6,000.

Goodness.

Okay. And so you're in a remote area, correct?

Yes.

Okay. And so the job you had before was a work from home. And so you've been trying to get something like that where it doesn't matter where you live. Correct.

Right. But I've also been working at, right now I'm working at a hotel and stuff, just these little jobs just to help me keep going until I find something better.

Here's my question, and I want to ask this. I'm trying to ask this with as much curiosity and no judgment here. Even though you're in a remote situation, is there not a Walmart a target of some type of big box store, something like that? That is maybe 30 minutes, 45 minutes away? That is hiring.

Like an hour and a half to 2 hours away is the closest Walmart target anything.

My goodness. And so you've been applying for jobs that are in your field, with your experience, that are remote but just not getting anything right. Okay. So I want to give you a snapshot really quick. Not to discourage you, but I think we got to light a fire here. The remote jobs in America right now are back to pre pandemic levels. I think there's this notion for a lot of people that since the pandemic, I can work remote and eventually something's going to pop. But the actual amount of jobs that are available that are 100% remote have shrunk back to pre 2020, and that's a much smaller percentage right now. You're going to have to make some really key decisions. And George, I want to bring you in here because, yes, this is a professional and she's got to make some income, but right now we want to keep the house. Do you have any other debt?

I have credit cards, but I've kind of had to let them go for now.

Of course.

All right. I've got to pay the bills.

How much do you have in credit card debt?

It's probably 7000, $10,000.

So you've just been living off of this to cover the bills or what? Or was this before?

I was doing for a little bit because it's just me.

How old are the kids for a little bit?

18. 1614 and three.

Wow.

So you have no family or friends around that could help with the three year old?

No.

What are the 16 and 18 year old doing? Are they working? Are they in school?

Yeah, they're working. They're going to school.

Where are they working?

Everything.

Where are they working?

My oldest is working at a subway right now. He's working part time. My middle son is doing grocery store, helping carry out groceries and do a kill. And then my youngest, she's got a job at.

And what are those jobs?

Got a job at an ice cream shop, like the grocery store? I think it's eight. Subway, he's making eleven something, and my daughter will be making, like, eight.

What are you making per hour at the hotel?

Right now I'm making 14, so I'm doing pretty well.

How many hours are you getting?

But not well enough. I'm only getting part time, maybe 16 to 20 hours maximum a week.

Okay.

So what is keeping you from working another part time job, making 14 or higher an hour so that we're now equaling 40 hours a week?

Trying to find a place that pays well enough to pay my mortgage.

Well.

But at this point, we can't be. Okay, what's well enough? What's that hourly rate that you need?

Well, I need to be making about 16 at least an hour, and I have to work 90 some hours to make that house payment.

90 hours a week?

No, a month. I sat down and I calculated how many hours.

Whatever.

But my point is, I have to.

Be making 16 an hours, ideally for the kids. But I took this 14. I'm just making or filling in at the hotel.

Right, but here's the deal, Kayla. You don't have many options right now. You need to be working two or three jobs. This 90 hours a month is the wrong way of looking at it. You got the wrong math. I'm just trying to be honest with you. You called for help, and I'm going to talk to you like you were my sister. Okay? And I would be like, sis, this is pretty simple. Working two part time jobs, three part time jobs. Believe me, they're there in Minneapolis. I mean, I know you're way out in the sticks, but they're there, and we're doing two and three jobs because 40 hours a week gives me on a four week month, that gives me 160 hours. And you're running math on 90 at 16 an hour. And I'm going, forget the 90 hours at 16. My math is 40 hours a week at 14 in one job, 1512 at the other. Your answer to saving your house, Kayla, is working and working hard. Where there's a will, there's a way. And I don't want you to lose your house. You shouldn't have to. Let's go. Let's get to work.

Let's make some money. They are out there. Do whatever it takes. And if you got to sell the house and move somewhere with all the kids to a better job economy, do that. This is your life. Act like it depends on it, because I'm telling you, it does. You need to get serious. And fast. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel. You've heard me talk about christian healthcare ministries, a health cost sharing ministry. But I want you to hear from one of their members. Abby racked up a lot of doctor bills with a recent pregnancy, but she said CHM shared all of her eligible pregnancy related medical expenses, and their staff was consistently attentive, helpful and considerate. That's Abby's CHM story, and it could be yours. Learn more and join chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We are here for you this hour taking your money questions, your work related questions. How about that bigger shovel? I'm here to help on that. Triple 825-5225 is the number. Triple 825-5225 is the number. Let's go to DJ in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. DJ, how can we help?

Howdy. So I'm kind of having some trouble wrapping my head around an issue where I'd like to start my own small equipment rental company, but I have a natural kind of aversion to debt. But I think that the amount that I'm going to need to start this company at the lowest level is going to be enough to where it might be worth getting into some level of low level debt. I found a 0% loan for the particular piece of equipment I want to buy, so I'm not sure which is.

What to go from here. How much? Tell us about the equipment and how much.

All right, so you need the backstory because it's a good backstory. The company that I work for is extremely motivated to help their employees out. They like to have their employees be able to have the equipment they sell. So they sell their equipment at cost plus a small transaction fee on the new equipment. The amount is $30,000 for the piece of equipment that I want, plus the attachments that I would need in order to make it marketable.

Oh, you get the attachments with the $30,000.

You get the attachments, you get the equipment, you get the warranty. And I'm also then allowed to be my own repair man.

All right, so what kind of a machine are we talking about?

What does it do about a 3500 pound mini excavator with zero tl swing?

A mini excavator. And are you going to rent that to people? Did I understand that right?

Yes, sir.

How much are you going to rent it for?

I'm going to try to rent it at 350. That's kind of what I've found has been a comparable rate.

350 an hour.

350 a day.

350 a day?

Yes, sir.

Seems like a pretty good deal. Of course, I don't know much about mini excavators.

They usually rent somewhere in that 350 to 400 range.

Who are the people that are renting mini excavators?

So my goal is to go for kind of the homeowner demographic who says, I don't want to pay someone $4,000 to do this. I'm going to rent this machine for $400 and do it myself. That's kind of my demographic is I don't have enough money to be wasting it, but I have enough money to rent something.

Okay, and a couple more questions here. You started off the call sounding like you were going to have multiple machines, and now we're just talking about this one. So is this what you're going to start with?

So this is what I'm starting with. Over time, I'm going to buy in cash, but just to get that beginning going, I'm thinking a loan would be.

How much cash do you have saved up?

So right now, me and my wife are trying to buy a home, and we're also having a child. So it's kind of.

This sounds like the worst time to do this, but answer the question really quick. How much money do you have saved up?

Sorry, I'm adding, I'd say about $7,500. Okay.

How many tons? You said this thing is for the mini excavator.

How many tons or how much did it weigh?

Well, I'm looking on Facebook marketplace, and I'm seeing a whole bunch of mini excavators running anywhere used from $5000 to. So why don't we just go buy a used one in cash to see if this business even has any merit to it.

Exactly.

So I've called a couple of local business owners over in the area that I used to work, and they said that they tried to buy the used excavators, but when that ended up happening was they would go through and have to put new bushings in and put new pins in, and then the amount of work that it would take to make it marketable actually got them up above the cost of the homeowner.

I don't care if it's the shiniest, newest one. I want something that's getting the job done.

Oh, I get that. But the cost of making it, that would make it run well enough that people would be able to rent it.

We've hit a wall. Dj. You called us.

You want to buy a home, having a kid, you're going to about to go 30 grand into debt in the middle of all of this to hope that you roi it's going to take 86 rentals at 350 just to break even.

This is crazy risk, DJ.

That's kind of why I really wanted to push towards buying the used. I just have a lot of fear about that because I've seen what those repair bills get.

No, you're missing the point, DJ. You're missing the point. You called us and you wanted to know our opinion.

I would not leave this loan. I would not raise business.

This is risky.

You should wait.

Have the child. Do you have any other debt?

I've actually paid off the remainder of my debt. Great.

You have an emergency fund?

I do.

Is that the 7500 or you have stuff outside of that?

I have a cash emergency fund set aside as well. But I tend to forget that that exists because I won't touch it unless I need to.

I would not start a business at this stage. Even if you had the cash, I'd put the cash towards buying a home. Wouldn't you, George?

Well, and right now we got this baby on the way. We got to make sure that mom and baby get home safe and there's no medical bills to pay. And this is a lot of responsibility. And so I'm waiting until we got the baby, we're in the new house, then we can start this business with cash.

With cash.

Start slow. Even though you're getting a discount and it's this great opportunity. This is how most stupid decisions start.

I don't think it's a great opportunity. I'm not even trying to dash your dreams, DJ, but this is really the reason I walk through. Who's the customer? All this stuff. This is highly speculative and George ran the numbers. You got to rent it how many times?

86, 80 rentals.

You've got to rent it just to break even. Man, that is going to become a weight on your shoulders.

Yeah, the only reason that I'm more pushed towards it is because I've talked to four people so far that do this and they average about ten rentals a month in the slow season. But I understand what you appreciate. I would much prefer buy it with the cash.

Well, then do that. You are relying on four people who are giving you a story that's worked for them. There's no guarantees that's going to work for you. And they may be okay with debt. You're not. Why would you be okay now, but not later. That's what's weird to me. You're like, well, in the future I want a cash flow, but right now, let's go borrow money. And I just don't understand where future DJ is getting tripped up by present DJ.

I just have such a fear of standing still that I'll never do it if I don't. What if you're fear that fear of. I do still. Yeah.

But let me give you what you should be afraid of. You should be afraid of going backwards. This plan has a healthy dose of going backwards involved. I'd rather stand still and go backwards. What about you, DJ?

I'd say you're probably correct about that.

Not probably. I'm rarely right. I've been married 25 years and I have three teenagers. I'm wrong all the time. At least that's what everybody says, george. But in this one rare situation, standing still or staying still or holding serve. You pick the metaphor. George is a lot better. Why?

Well, there's a lot of risk here. And my brain just went to insurance and liability and starting the small business. What happens when this person destroys your equipment, gets hurt on your equipment because you didn't maintain it properly?

Yay.

And that part worries me alone. On top of the fact you're trying to buy a house and have a baby. We're trying to do too much at once. And so for those reasons, I'm out. If this was shark tank, I would opt out.

You really handle that well. I mean, when you started running through all that. I have a tad bit of anxiety for our friend.

You need some tums just thinking about it.

Yeah. You know what? Usually I have a little.

He's got some in the desk.

There used to be a thing. I was going to pop a tums right there.

There's something about when there's big changes happening in life, it makes us want to go do something a little crazy. Buying a house, having a kid. And you go, now I got to start the business. If I don't do it now, I'm never going to start it.

George. I want to bring back what I think is a really interesting wrestling match with millions of Americans. I want you to weigh in on it. I get what he's saying. He's young, he wants to get ahead. He wants to own something. He wants to be his own man, work for himself. I get that urge and he's going, I'm afraid of standing still. And he's forgetting about the risk of going backwards. What do you think about that? Wrestling match. That's a real wrestling match. Yeah.

Sometimes you're standing still because there's a cliff right in front of you. There's a precipice there, and it's your body saying, listen, man, you're not safe right now. And so I'm going to pause on this whole deal. And we love small business. There's a right way to do it and a right time to do it. And both of those boxes are not checked for me.

Hopefully, you'll listen to us. We're on your side. By the way, George Campbell, not with just great financial advice, but dropping the word of the day. Use the word precipice sometime in the next week with your colleagues and watch them. Watch them look at you. Personal brand goes up just a notch.

I make $10 words look cheap.

Great word, George. This is the Ramsay show.

Hey, guys.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're taking your phone calls about your money, your work. Triple 8825-5225 that's triple 8825-5225. Now, George, you were telling me during the break you got a little something to show us here. You've pulled something that America needs to see in here.

I live on social media, as you know, and I get a lot of dms from people sending me different videos and clips and reels and TikToks. And if one gets popped up enough, I go, we got to put this on the show.

Okay?

And this is one that genuinely made me belly laugh, but I don't know.

That I've seen you belly laugh.

I don't have much of a belly. That's the problem.

This is a fair point.

So this is comedian Neil Brennan, known for his work co producing, co writing the Chappelle show, fantastic comedian. And he's got this clip about student loans and I thought, we have to have Ken react to this.

I've never seen it on the Ramsey show.

Okay, so let's play that.

Let's roll.

I realized early on that these student loans are basically small business loans. And the business is you and you're maybe not such a great business. Look, if they call them small business loans, no 18 year old kid would ever get the loan because it's a bad idea for a business. If you had to go to the bank, to the small business desk and ask me like, yeah, I'm going to need $150,000 to be like, all right, what's your business idea? All right, here's the idea. It for the next four years, I'm going to get blackout drunk. But also I'm going to get a degree in sociology.

Yes.

Just know that I did have a way to pay you guys back. It's going to give you $80 a month for the next 240 years.

Brilliant. You know, he's at. Listen, there's not one thing in that clip that's incorrect.

No lies were told.

He's absolutely right. It is the biggest cash grab in the history of this country. And what I mean by that is the federal government should never be in the banking business. And you cannot call it anything other than that. If you look at Fannie Mae and Sally Mae and they are giving low interest loans to the american people and they're guaranteeing them, and do you know who gets paid right away? The college and university.

Yes. That tuition money goes right to their bank.

Instantly instantaneous. It is a cash transaction. The higher education business is going to the bank on the backs of the american people. And the federal government is financing all of it. And not only financing it, guaranteeing it if they default, because if they default, the taxpayers, we're on the hook for that.

And there's no risk to.

They don't go back to the school and say, dear, fill in the school, we'd like you to send 25,000 of that back because junior didn't finish.

And what's worse is that this has caused colleges to raise tuition to unprecedented.

Levels because they can.

Because we'll just take out more loans because we are that stupid.

It is ridiculous, by the way, the sociology degree. So let's look at the headlines. You know, I was in New York last week, did a town hall for Fox business, and the topic was education in America. And the segment that I was on was about college education. Is the ROI there? And the answer to that question is increasingly, no, this is not my opinion for those of you that are getting really upset at me right now. Oh, Ken, the liberal arts are just good. They teach our kids how to think. Let me tell you something. Companies by the score are removing the college degree requirement because the american companies are at a point where they're going. It doesn't matter anymore because they come out of college and I got to train them for the job anyway. So the status symbol that has been attached to the diploma, the degree, George, it's not my opinion. This is a fact. It is lessening and lessening. And is the good news for the american people is it's leveling the playing field. And so I just want to practically say to our audience, we have a lot of new people coming in all the time.

If I could give everybody listening, watching right now, two simple questions to determine whether or not you need to get a degree, thus potentially get a loan. Ask these two questions, is the degree the only way to get qualified to do what I want to do? Second question, is the degree the best way to get qualified to do what I want to do? If the answer is no, I've got great news, America. There's a trade school, a certificate program, an associate's degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar and find your path forward. George, this is the message that the Ramsey show has got to beat over and over and over again because we've been sold a lie, that the degree is a guarantee for success, and it's garbage.

On top of that, the pressure we're putting on 1617 year olds to go, hey, sign the dotted line for something you don't actually fully understand, which is six figures in student loan debt. To hope this is the thing you want to do for the rest of your life because the ROI is counting on that. That's exactly that. Four year degree is going to pay the dividends and give you a better job and better salary than you would have gotten without it. That's all of the assumptions.

And the comedian makes a very good point by going, would you bet on an 18 year old to that degree if you were a bank? And the answer is no. But you know why banks and people are given loans? Because they're guaranteed by the federal government, so there's no risk. The government's handing out money like it's candy. And anyway, so great clip, George. He's absolutely right, by the way. I want to make a mention really quick the get clear assessment, which is a very popular tool that we sell@ramseysolutions.com. I created it for this very issue. Parents, listen to me. If you've got a kid that's graduating high school, get the student version right now@ramsaysolutions.com. And it will in 15 minutes, give them a snapshot of how they're wired. In other words, what they do best, that's their talent, what they enjoy doing. That's passion. That could be turned into work they enjoy down the road. And then what motivates them? What results motivate them? You can, as an 18 year old, have a general idea of direction. Use the get clear tool if you're brand new, if you're an adult, you're going, I need that.

Ramsaysolutions.com. Click on the get clear assessment. You can see both the adult version and the student version. Because this will help people, George, not make a costly decision that they end up paying for for decades.

Oh, yeah. It's holding them back. When I covered, the stats now are astounding. How many people are delaying their dreams of home ownership and marriage and having kids and working a job they want to because of their student loan debt and the stats on how many people actually finish. I mean, you think about it, you're still going to carry that debt even if you don't graduate. And so that's something that, on top of the fact, you better hope you get a degree that has market.

What is the average length?

Do you have a to pay off debt? Yeah, 20 years.

So that's the average.

To pay off student loan debt.

That's absurd. Do you know what the average payment is?

$400 around there.

So, folks, that's unbelievable. Of average payment in America is $400 a month, and the average length of time is 20 years. Do you think the ROI is there, America?

Well, they've dangled forgiveness, Ken, so maybe that'll work out.

No. By the way, we got hammered for saying that that wasn't going to happen. We knew it was going to be challenged. The Supreme Court level, Supreme Court ruled on it, as we said they would. And it's going to keep being thrown out there as a football. But again, don't buy it.

I'm not catching that football.

You couldn't catch a football anyway. I'd have to hand it to you. And even then, you must.

That's what we call a soft toss, Ken, but in the biz.

But let me tell you what, you don't fumble the facts. You don't fumble the facts. I just put you on the spot. You were there, my friend. That's pretty extraordinary. I don't want to skip over that. Here's the question. Do you want to have a $400 payment for 20 years?

No, that's the question.

We ought to be. So, for instance, what if the federal government, when somebody applied for the student loan because you could do it so easy now online, what if there was this big flashing message that says, hey, warning, kind of like we do on cigarettes. You could have a $400 payment on average for the next 20 years. Do you want to sign up for this loan? What do you think the response would be? And I know I'm being facetious, but.

People would take a long, hard pause and probably go, all right, I'm going to back away right now. But instead, they make these loans so easy to get from the palm of your hand. You can go sign up for six figures.

Nobody talks about how long the average payment, the payoff date is. That's extraordinary.

All we do is promise the kids, you're going to have a great life if you work hard in school. That's what we tell them.

So we go, hey, you get the loan. Success is guaranteed, youngster. And so what do they do? Right? And then they go, you say, well, what about trade school? I don't want to get dirty. I don't want to wear a t shirt. And it'd be all greasy at the end of the day. And you got plumbers making $300,000 a year, electricians making $300,000 a year, starting businesses. The american dream. I mean, working for themselves, barbers.

It doesn't have to be dirty. Jobs with Mike Rowe.

No degree required. Remember those three words. That's the now and it's the next. And you're going to see that continue to increase in the job market in America. No degree required. Wake up, America. Great stuff, George.

Fumble the facts.

Don't fumble the facts. There it is, folks. There it is. He picked it up again. That's a touchdown. I'll explain that on the.

That's an interception, actually.

Thank you for being with us. This is the Ramsay show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsay Solutions. This is the Ramsay show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. Triple 825-5225 is the phone number. Triple 825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. George camel joins me, and we are here for you, George. Take those money questions and I'll weigh in. And then I'm here on any of those bigger shovel, more income questions. You want more income? Let's talk about it. Because that helps you get through the baby steps faster. And I'm here to help with that. George weighs in as well. Let's start this hour off with Ali in Tucson, Arizona. Allie, how can we help?

Hi, can you hear me?

I can, loud and clear. George, can you hear?

Absolutely.

There you go.

Perfect. So my question is about investing in retirement versus paying off the house quicker. We are a single income family. My husband has his preferences set to where 15% comes out of his paycheck every month or every week to his 401. For some reason that has not applied to the bonuses he gets throughout the year. And we're just now taking a look at that and wondering if we should make our own individual contribution to the 401 for the bonus amount or if that money would be better used paying off the house.

Okay, what's his income?

His base rate is about 95,000. Plus the bonus last year, it ended up being a total of about 15 gross.

15 in bonuses?

Yes.

Okay.

So about 110 in total compensation?

Yes.

Has he checked with the HR team?

I'm not sure if he has. We'll have to double check on that.

That would be my first step is just to talk with them and say, hey, I know these bonuses are happening. I don't see the 15% coming out. Is there a way to apply that to the 401K, even if it's retroactively, and get some intel on that on their side?

Okay.

And if you can apply it, then go for it. That's 15% of your household income. And any extra money beyond that 15% I would apply toward the principal on the mortgage. And if you can't apply it for some reason, you can't do it in the 401. You could do it in a Roth IRA and contribute to that.

Okay.

And the max this year is 7000.

Okay. You'd recommend treating that bonus as just regular income and do the 15% rather than throwing it at the house?

Yeah.

Because this bonus is part of his compensation plan. And so I'm just going to consider it just like the IRS would. This is your gross household income. And so I'm going to do 15% of the gross household income into retirement.

Got it.

Okay.

How much extra money do you guys have to throw at the mortgage every month?

It varies. The last few months it's been around 2000.

Awesome. On top of your normal payment?

Yes. There's a kink there. It is a rental property.

But you guys aren't living?

No, sir, we're not.

Are you renting or do you have your own primary residence with a mortgage?

We have extremely subsidized rent through my husband's work.

Okay, so you'renting very cheaply, and you hung onto your property as a rental?

Yeah. We actually purchased it last year.

While you were renting.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah. I think it's a great goal to have a paid off rental. That thing will cash flow like nothing else.

Yeah. We're intending for it to, whenever we do move to a more permanent situation, to sell it and use the equity towards our personal residence. But since we don't have anywhere here that we want to live and buy a house, we went forward with the rental.

That's wise. You guys have done it really well.

Off to a great start. All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina. Julian is there. Julian, how can we help?

Hello, Jimmy.

We hear you loud and clear. What's going on?

So, I just graduated recently in May, and I ended school with about $270,000 in student debt. And I make 52 annually pretax. And I think I'm just looking for direction.

What was your degree in?

Computer science.

Wow. What happened that caused you to go 270 grand in debt for the computer science degree?

It took a fifth year. And the school has. It's a public school, but it's basically private school tuition. I didn't get any. Is it out of state or anything? It is, man.

So what are you looking for? If we could snap our fingers today, what would we want? As far as work.

As far as work?

Yeah, your job. Let me ask it a different way. What's the path up the ladder for you? Making more money? What's that look like? What are you aiming for?

I'm aiming to live comfortably and pay off these loans, or at least make it so my co signers. Who's the cosigner? My uncle and my father.

Oh, yikes.

No, but let me re ask one more time, Julian. What are we looking to do? Are you wanting to go into coding? Do you want to go into cybersecurity? What is that computer science degree that you overpaid for? What are you looking to do? I know you're looking to be comfortable, but what is the professional path up the ladder? Name it.

Software engineering.

Okay, so what's keeping you from moving up right now?

Well, I'm afraid of the impact on my co signers. And one of the solutions I saw was if you join the military and do ten years, then you could have them forgiven or something like that.

Yeah, but that's not.

Your cosigners aside, forget the cosigners. You need to be making six figures in software engineering ASAP.

Well, you need to pay off or on a path. I want to be realistic. You should be in that 65 70 range pretty realistically. Have you done your homework on this?

I guess not.

What are you doing now for 52?

I work remote for a small company in Canada doing cybersecurity during the week, my friend.

I don't think your sites are high enough. And by the way, I'm not getting on you. I'm trying to push you a little bit. Julian, your path to software engineer. Let's go. Let's start working in Raleigh, North Carolina. Is it the research triangle? How is it that you aren't on a pathway to making 70, 75, six figures in one or two years as a software engineer? I think it's just effort. Am I right or am I wrong?

I didn't know it was possible to do that that soon.

I guess it's absolutely possible. You may have to pay your dues for twelve months, which you're already starting. I mean, good at least. At least you're in the technology field. But you need a ladder, a path forward. And you don't need to go to the military because all I heard was a guy who goes, well, I'll go ten years and pay my penance, and then hopefully they wipe my loans away. No, go make really good money and do what's right and pay off the loan and take care of your uncle and your father who bet on you. It was a bad bet. They didn't need to do that. But you did it. Hang on the line. Let's give him a copy of my number one bestseller, the proximity principle. You need to get around software designers in Raleigh. It's your second job. Coffee, lunch. Find out what opportunities are there, how they got where they are. Get after it, young man. Opportunities come when I'm around the right people in the right places. And that's what you need. This is the Ramsay show.

When families were asked how long it would be before they faced financial hardship if a spouse died, nearly one third said they'd be in trouble immediately. This is why I talk about getting term life insurance coverage from Xander insurance. They're committed to protecting families with only the products I recommend. Plus, their team keeps the entire process simple and affordable. Go to xander.com for quick online pricing, or call 803 5642. 80 has to be the top priority.

Welcome back to the Ramsay show, where we help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. Triple 825-5225 is the number triple 8825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. My colleague and good friend, George Campbell joins me this hour. And, George, I got to tell you.

What'S clumping your cat litter, Ken.

What?

Clumping my what?

Your cat litter. That's an old saying.

What's clumping my cat litter?

That's an old saying among the gen Xers. That would you appreciate.

That would irritate me, and I'm irritated.

Well, what's irritating?

Well, I got you.

Say, I gotta tell you, it means Ken's irritated.

I gotta tell you, I think we need more haggle. We don't have enough haggle in today's economy.

We've lost our haggle.

We've lost the haggle. And this is not a minute issue. This is a massive issue. Let me explain. Do you know what I mean when I say haggle, George?

100%. I love the haggle.

I like the bargain. It's a kind of slang word for bargain. And have you ever traveled internationally, George? Yes. Have you been to one of these markets where they're selling goods? There's a lot of haggling going on. I mean, it's a normal deal. You show up, you smile, and you haggle, and no one's upset about it. Everybody gets the haggle. You're haggling, I'm haggling. We're all haggling. I think we need more haggle in the United States, and we don't have the haggle in one major area, and it's got me a little upset. I am in the middle of now research to buy my second child a car. He's turning 16 in April, and here I am, and I'm reminded of the experience that I had last year trying to haggle. So let me give you kind of the bad guy in this deal. It's Carmax.

I threw him under the bus.

I like that. I am. I'll tell you why. They started this nonsense 30 years ago. Did you know this?

They've been marketing the hey, we're the no haggle guys.

They were the first ones to come out in the car industry that I know of, and they made it a national campaign slogan. It was, you come to Carmax, and we got the no haggle pricing. And I remember, first time hearing, wait, how does that work? I remember when they came out with it, George, I went to myself, I'd like to haggle still. And I remember going to Carmax, going, is this really a thing? And boy, oh, boy, is it. They weren't interested in haggling.

Now, the price is the price.

The price is the price. And the notion was, and they did a good job, and they actually won with the messaging. They said, look, if you come to Carmax, you can buy your car. You don't have to worry about the slimy car salesman trying to work you over on price. But I can tell you that it's actually hurt us. It's gone against us. It was brilliant strategy. You know why? Now every car dealer in the world is no haggle. They just jumped on the no haggle train. And I don't like it because when I buy a car, as I did for my oldest son about a year and a half ago, I bought it from private sellers. And there's haggling.

You get the haggle back.

When you go private, you get the haggle back. And I think, now I'm going to go a step further, George, and you're Mr. Save people money. So I'm bringing you into this. And that's why you, I gotta tell you, I think we need haggling in every walk of life. I'd like to haggle over a cup of coffee. Tell you what, I like to go to a coffee shop and go, listen, I got my buddy George with her. We're going to have a cup of coffee. Probably going to have more than a cup. We're probably in for multiple cups. Tell you what, I'd like to buy one, get one free on this first one, because I'm probably, why can't I haggle over coffee, George?

Well, I think, number one, America has a lot of, we have a lot of shame when it comes to social.

I think we have fear. Well, think about it.

The tipping screens is another version of the shame based culture, which is, I feel like I got a tip, otherwise, I'm going to get shamed. And the same thing with haggling. It's a very awkward, shameful thing, whereas in other cultures, it's normal.

Can you imagine going to the mall with Whitney and you're getting a little something, and you walk into the purse store and you go, I'll tell you what, the ticket price on this purse is $150. I'll tell you what, would you take 120 every time? My wife Stacy, and you know Stacy, well, she sells.

She loves to haggle.

Well, people haggle with her. I always hear on the phone, she goes, okay, you go to a yard sale. You know what everybody's doing?

Haggling. Facebook, marketplace, haggle. People love to haggle.

The haggle is in a lot of places. I think it's time in 2024, George, and I'm going to make the proclamation today. What say you, America? I think we need haggle everywhere. I think we need to be haggling cars, haggling a steak. I want to go and go. You got the tomahawk right there. You're charging $65. I tell you what, I'll give you 50 for it.

That's a good deal on a tomahawk.

Yeah, I'm making it up. I don't know what a tomahawk.

Well, it was 128oz.

That's too much meat. I can't even look at that section.

Yeah, I'm with you, though.

What do you think, George? I think, why can we haggle in certain areas and we can't haggle in others?

Well, some are standard businesses. I can't go to the grocery store necessarily, and just go, hey, I think 250 is a lot for the head of lettuce. Would you do two? The 14 year old working the register can't help me with that. And so I try to choose my battles, and there's places you can and can't haggle. That's just how it is. I don't make the rules.

I think we, the people could make the rules, and I'm suggesting that we all start haggling a little bit more. Try the haggle. You never know what you'll get. What if we take that reverse shame and we go and it's the poor 14 year old kid at the coffee shop? He doesn't know. It's not my problem. Listen, I'd like to get two cups of coffee for one. What do you think, pal? And he's nervous.

He's not going to go for that. He's scared of getting fired over this.

I think he's scared of telling me, the customer. No, I think we need a little more haggle. If we can do it in the marketplace place, George, I think we should be able to haggle at the mall, getting my kid a pair of shoes. Hey, here's the deal. You're charging 119 for that. I was across the street at JD's. This is football.

That's a legitimate version of haggling, which is price matching.

But that's a haggle.

That's haggling.

So at foot locker, it's $20 cheaper. You give me the foot locker price. I think they do it.

And I always look for the price matching policy. I tell you, and I'll always take advantage of that.

By the way, James, in America, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. All right. I love to frequent J. Crew. And I have decided, as of today, you're gonna moment. I'm gonna go haggle for some clothes. What's the worst they can say? They look at me like I'm an alien. That's not the first time that's ever happened.

There's a version that's classy of this. You could go, hey, I'm not going to ask for that shirt for half off, but could you say, hey, you guys got any discounts you're running? You got any promo codes you can apply?

See, that's a classic millennial cop. That's not haggling. You're asking if they have coupons that's getting a discount.

The same end result applies.

I want to say yes, and I want to ask for the coupon. And then I want to haggle. I want to haggle some more.

I'm going to haggle with you just to get you to stop talking about the haggle.

Can people haggle on your books, Ken?

There we go.

Now, see, this is a very good point. I respect the haggle. The answer is yes. Just Ken's got a family to feed. When somebody buys something from Stacey that we sell, because we do this a lot in our neighborhood, people buying and selling all the. Always. Nobody buys the thing. You sell at full. And I'm just. I'm having a little fun with this, but I'm a little irritated because I think the car industry, I think we, the people need to stand up and start haggling. It's going to take some courage. So I have three tips. You ready, James? I wanted to give some practical takeaways, so here are the three how to's of haggling. Are we ready? I should have given this to the guys to put on the screen because this is gold, George. All right, three how tos to haggling. You can add or edit. You ready? Number one, be strong.

Fair.

You gotta go into this knowing that it's not normal. Maybe they're going to look at you like it's weird. Maybe they're going to shut you down and reject you. You got to be strong, number one. Number two, you got to know your stuff.

Do your homework.

You got to do your homework. Look, foot locker across the street. Or you got to know your stuff.

I don't know more about that product than they do.

You got to know. And then, number three, you got to have walk away power, 100%. You actually have to walk away here's what I'm going to do. I'll tell you what. I'll buy the shirt if you give it to me for this. I'll tell you what. I'm going to go across the street. Here's my number. Text me if you want me to buy that shirt.

That's it.

And you leave the three how to's of haggling.

I think those are strong. And I've done all three of those.

Has it worked?

Yeah. Because they can tell if you're going to a. What's that? The guy wrote Chris Voss. Is that his negotiation?

Never split the difference.

Never split the difference. And Rachel Cruz and I did a whole episode on Smart Money happy hour about negotiation, and I pretended like I was wreck the boat salesman.

It's one of my favorite episodes. My point is that she buckled, but that's the haggle. You can't haggle successfully if you don't use those three things. Be strong. Got to be okay with rejection. Number two, know your stuff. And number three, walk away. Make them think about it.

I love that.

Now, they may never call you back and get it, but that's fine.

A for effort.

So there you go. Now that's my opinion. What do you say, America? Speak up in the comments. Let us know however you're watching, wherever you're watching, you can email the show. I don't care. I want to know, do you want more haggle in the american economy? I say yes.

You've got my vote.

I think we need more haggle, especially cars. I'm tired of paying sticker price on cars.

Don't do it. I don't pay full price for pizza.

You know what?

You need to follow me on your YouTube channel, and I'll haggle in disguise at the car dealer. We'll see if it works. All right, more of your calls coming up. Hagglemore. America. Welcome back, America. You're joining the Ramsay show. I'm Ken Coleman, and George Campbell joins me. Triple 825-5225 hey, the money and marriage getaway is back. I thought I'd bring this up since tomorrow is a big day. George, you got your roses, you got the candy, you got the chocolate. What is Whitney's?

We have opted out of the consumerism Holidays this year. Just opted out.

Tell me more about this. I think America wants to know about this.

We're getting pizza at home.

No.

Picking up some pizzas.

Yeah. Now Stacey and I have opted out of the Valentine's Day mania for probably a decade because I'm tired of fighting for a table.

I tell her I love her.

Every take you out on Valentine's Day before, two days before, maybe three days after. Kind of random.

I may stop by and get a little ribeye, make it at home and.

Put it on top of the pizza.

On top of the pizza. Underrated. Move.

Now America wants to know more from our money saving.

I've never tried.

I'll have to report. What other holidays? Consumerism holidays. Are you guys opting out?

Almost all of them. I mean, outside of Thanksgiving dinner with family and Christmas dinner with family, we don't really do a whole lot of celebrating.

Now, when you say opting out. No card for Whitney.

Not really card people.

Really?

Yeah.

Man, we got to find a way for you to send an accidental, on purpose text to Stacey to tell her that, you know what I mean? Send it to her. But as soon as it goes through, you go, oh, sorry, that was meant for Ken. And it was you going, yeah, we don't do the Valentine cards anymore.

Wow.

Something like, you know what I mean? She's a big card person.

Well, I think it depends on the people if that's her love language.

Yeah, but what do you do when your wife's a big card person and you're not?

You do it anyways. That's her love language.

That's what I do.

So it makes you a great husband. Yeah, but my wife is more into, like, treats and food and experience versus the flowers and the cards and all that.

So I think you should make the pizza tomorrow as a romantic gesture.

I think what's more romantic is getting a good pizza versus me attempting a gluten free pizza at home.

I digress. I was supposed to be talking about our money and marriage event and I got excited about Valentine's Day. James, are you a card person? Are you guys a card couple or you get each other Valentine's Day cards?

Yeah, but we're usually diy, kind of.

So I see you with a pair of little scissors and the construction paper.

Well, it's more about the kids. At this stage, it's all about the kids dad of the year right there.

This is something I want to know in the comment section. Are you people card givers at Valentine's Day, or do you just skip all the nonsense and do the I'll give.

You a life hack? I refuse to spend more than ninety nine cents on a card.

Can you get a card trader today is inflationary.

They only sell 99 cent cards at Trader Joe's. That's where I go to get my cards.

I like Trader Joe's. Hey, our money and marriage getaway is back. It's this fall, October 20, 425 and 26. Join Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz for a weekend away in Nashville. Two and a half days of teaching on communication, intimacy and money. Lot of q and a lot of fun, and you and your spouse can get away and build your marriage. Platinum tickets already sold out. There's a few vip tickets left, which includes meet and greets with John and Rachel. Visit ramsaysolutions.com right now to get your ticket. They start at $799. That's a little bit above George's budget. Visit ramsaysolutions.com events. The money and marriage getaway and I heard it was great last year or this year, I should say.

It was amazing. I did get to speak. I did a great budgeting talk. Did you this previous one, I hope I get invited back. We'll see. But it is 799 per couple, which is a steal for a weekend marriage retreat.

Right.

And we make sure it's worth your while.

By the way, that's a good time. I feel I should be responsible and point out that this is a no haggle ticket price and haggle. Unfortunately, the Ramsey solutions not on board with my more haggle clarion call today to help the american people. I'm a patriot. I feel like this patriotism, is this constitutional? Yeah. Free speech. Haggling is free speech. Don't get me started. Steve is on the line in the motor city. Detroit, Michigan, home of the Lions, who almost won the NFC championship. Steve, how can we help?

Hey, guys. I'm recently running into some medical issues that has my family dipping into our emergency fund. I'm just kind of wondering, how much do we bleed down that emergency fund before taking the next step? And what would the next step be as far as selling the house, selling the cars, dipping into retirement, and what the process would be like?

Can you tell us a little bit more about your medical condition and is that going to affect you working going forward?

Yes and no. So it's actually been about two years. You guys really want to go down a rabbit hole? It's long Covid or post Covid. So at this point, it's basically leaving me bedbound for most of the days. And there's no cure or no timeline of recovery at this point. I've seen people recover after two years, after three years, things like that.

Are you married?

Outside of that? I am married, yes.

Is your spouse working?

She is working, yes.

What's the income of your spouse?

She brings home after taxes and everything like that. Right around 22. $2,300 a month.

And that's the only thing keeping the family afloat right now?

Correct.

So did you leave your job? Were you fired or what happened there?

No. So I went on short term disability because of the illness and everything like that. And that ran us through basically, up until December of 23. And now the disability on that has ran out. We're currently in the process for filing for Social Security disability, but reading everything, it sounds like it's going to be an uphill battle.

How old are you?

Two.

I'm 35. She's 31.

And how many kids?

We've got one two year old.

Okay. How much of a shortfall are you having based on her income? How much more money would you need to kind of not be living way below?

I mean, using a budget, we'd probably 500, 600 a month. And that would be very minimum.

That would be break even more comfortable paycheck to paycheck. But you would be making it.

Yeah. Without having to spend that extra from our emergency fund, that kind of stuff.

Well, I don't want to in any way minimize your situation, but five to $600 a month, that's extremely doable for your wife right now. She may be working a lot longer, but you can't. And if she's working a part time job or she gets a better full time job, we can get that $500 to $600 a month.

Yeah. And I don't want to make excuses. It's just, unfortunately, it's to the point where we have childcare kind of during the day, and then when she comes home, she's a giant help with our child, who I'm unfortunate because I'm not fully able to take care of.

Are you able to do any work from a computer at home?

Not consistently, no. Like, a phone call like this could wipe me out.

I mean, even a digital job where you're not having to talk all day.

No screen time, things like that, it'd be very minimal, maybe an hour a day.

What are you able to do all day?

Very little. So it's called post exertional malaise. But basically, the more that I do, the worse that I feel. So I could get up and I could do something all day long, not a lot, but I could be up and moving around. But then it laying me in bed for the next week at a time.

Do you have friends?

It's been a wild ride. It's very bizarre.

I'm just staying on the money thing right now because this is about brainstorming and going, how do we get more income in? And I understand the childcare issue because she needs to help when she gets home. But friends and family, I mean, this is a rare situation. Are you surrounded by people who know your plight? And they go, hey, we'll help out until bedtime.

Yeah, we got a great support system, but it's to the point where my mother's coming over and kind of taking care of my daughter during the day. We do have other family and friends who help out a lot, and we lean on them quite a bit. So I guess it might be a possibility to expand that.

It has to be. What are your other options? You have no other option. You can't burn your emergency fund.

The goal is to use as little as possible from that fund.

Yeah, you can.

Not sustainable. You can't go into debt and live off credit cards. It's just going to make the problem even worse. So we have to figure out how to spend less and make more. That's the only way to get this $600 in margin.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, right now it is on your wife, and that stinks. But she can make more money, and that solves this problem and keeps you guys from burning through really important funds. That's our reality right now. So we got to work within that reality. I'm so sorry this is happening, Steve. This is the Ramsey show.

Folks.

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Welcome back, America. This is the Ramsay show, helping you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. We'd love to hear from you. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, and we're going to go to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Tom is there. Tom, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Hey. Yeah, I'm 60. Be 61 in June, zero in retirement. My wife and I bring in about 7200 a month after taxes. That's clear. I have about 26,000 in debt right now. Between credit cards, some personal loans, and the tax bill, it's due the end of June. I have my budget out. Everything's done. My question is, in October, when they are paid off, I would like to do a max out two Roth Iras and then do my work. That still leaves me about 2000 a month extra to invest. Where is the best place to put that? So I get the most return on it for the next four and a half years. Five years.

What happens after five years?

I would like to retire when I'm 65.

Oh, boy.

Well, I wish you could just announce that once you turn 65, you get to.

Man, I would like to do that.

I would love that for you, Tom. But I don't know that the numbers will work out if you just stop working.

Yeah, we'll get no less than 4000 a month from Social Security. And I took in the fact in 2034 it's brisket down 80%. So I have all those numbers crunched in there and everything. My thought is if I can get around 150,000 to 100 and 6175, I can take an extra 1500 a month out of the investments. And that's at 8%, averaging 8%. I know it's pretty aggressive. We have a fidelity growth fund in it at work which averages eight to twelve. So I've looked at that. So I've done some homework. But I'm just curious if there's anything other than the 401k where I'm going to get hit with taxes. Probably when I take that out, I'm going to max out the two Roth IRAs for my wife and I. Yeah.

You got four hundred and one k through your employer. You have the IRA outside of an employer. And then you can also invest in health savings account. If you have access to one of those through a high deductible health plan, that's another spot you can invest.

Okay, is that taxable at the end of the year or whenever I take it out? Because that rolls over, right? You can roll that over?

Yes, the HSA will roll over. And if you use it for qualified medical expenses, you can take it out tax free. It'll grow tax free if you use it for something else, then after 65 it kind of turns into more like a traditional 401k where it will become taxable income if it's not used for those medical expenses. So those are three options for you. Outside of that, there is a brokerage account that's not connected to retirement, non retirement brokerage account that is taxable. So you'll have short term capital gains, long term capital gains. But I feel like right now we need to just focus on stacking, getting out of this debt, do you have a mortgage as well?

No, our house is paid off.

Good.

So we have this $26,000 in consumer debt you said will be done by October.

Yeah, I have a $5,000 tax bill. Our taxes are $4,500 a year. Which is why I want to probably sell the house when I'm 65 and downsize.

Would you pay cash for the next house?

Exactly, yes, absolutely.

That's a good plan.

The proceeds from this and get something smaller, hopefully maybe have another 50 or 60 left over from that.

And then you do have catch up contributions with the IRA at your age.

Right.

So I would take advantage of all of that, Max everything out once you get rid of the consumer debt and once you have a three to six month emergency fund.

Right. Yeah. I'm not worried about the 1000. I have that.

Well, you need more than that once.

You'Re out of debt. Yeah.

So you might not be investing until next year, correct?

Yeah.

Okay. But that's the game plan. You might need to work longer than 65.

Pardon?

You might need to work longer than 65. And I would plan on that.

Yeah. I've done the numbers all the way up to 67, which is my Max or my actual retirement date. I've looked at it and that gets me like an extra 400 a month to my Social Security. Not that I want to rely on that because you never know.

What do you enjoy doing, Tom? Let's just fast forward and let's just assume you're bored out of your mind a year into retirement and you're like, man, I got to get out and do something. What would you do? What do you enjoy?

This is another bonus on that. I've started two companies during the time frame from I was 18 through now, I've started two companies and sold them. We've done very well. We've been blessed. The problem was, and I'm going to say this, my dad passed away when he was six months away from retiring. I had a heart attack four years ago. So I was like, I'm going to live like it's my last, because you just don't know. And I think that's where I fell into a trap of some of the other stuff. So I have actually, about three months ago, started a small company, small business to take care of me if I'm bored. My wife and I love to golf, so we have that also. That's an entertainment thing. But as far as making extra money, I started a small candle company, local. I'm already in some retail shops looking at doing an etsy thing, not looking at blowing it up, anything huge, but there is some extra cash flow. It is financing itself. Right now, I'm reinvesting everything. I've only put about 600 of my own in it to get it started. So I do have some things there.

Okay, well, that's good.

Yeah, I have a plan. That was my one fear was being bored out of my mind, because you're going to need a golf at golf course so many times before, you're like, okay.

And that's my point. You can slow down, enjoy life, do those things, but fully retiring in your situation, if you're supplementing some of your basics like gas and groceries and utilities in that paid off house, working for yourself or somebody else, that's supplementing because you are way behind on actual retirement. And George is right, that's not going to add up that quickly. So having a fallback plan right now is really smart. And I would say to you that we need to change the way we talk about this in America. This idea of retiring doesn't mean just waking up and just fotsing around all day doing hobbies. There is a way to work. I think we should continue to work on some level, not necessarily because we have to, but because we want. You know, I think that we got a lot of people that are George Boomers that are moving into retirement, and we're watching people come back because they're like, I want to do something. And in this case, Tom, the right do something could really help you out on those basic expenses for a while.

So, Tom, can I ask, as a case study, what causes someone to not invest a dime until 61 years old?

Well, I think I fell back on that one where my dad, like I said, he was six months away from retiring. I hate to say this, my motto was, money is only something needed if you don't die tomorrow. And that was my thing. And we just. Two, three years ago, we took 17 golf trips down to Virginia.

So you've just been yoloing your entire.

Adult, kind of that Tim McGraw song, live like your dog. Skydiving, Rocky Mountain Climbing.

Wow.

3.7 seconds on a bowling all over.

And then all of a sudden, it's hitting you like, oh, crap.

Yeah, there's a lesson to be learned there. Enjoy life. But also ask yourself the question, hey, how am I going to retire one day?

I would find something that you enjoy doing, because I think it's.

I enjoy the candles. I've had good reception.

Not a lot of margin in those candles, though, are there, tom?

More than you think.

Really?

But you got to move a lot of candles.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

I buy a candle, like, two times a year.

I'm about 85% profit margin on a candle.

Okay. I got to tell you, I'm very surprised by that. I'm going to do some research on candles, George.

I think mine are soy, all natural. I have a great place that I can go pick up all my materials myself. I don't have to pay for shipping or anything, so everything's real close.

Tom the candle guy is going to candle make his way right into retirement. Light one up for tom. Shall we? This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. This is the Ramsey show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. The phone number to jump in, Isaac? 5225. Triple 825-5225. I'm sitting next to the incomparable George Campbell.

I thought you were going to say incompetent.

No, you've been great today.

Pretty wild how close those two words are.

It's only a thin slice between the two sometimes. And, boy, do I know. I know because it's live, man. And you never know what's going to happen. Folks, it's one of the great joys of doing live broadcasting. I'm Ken Coleman. I'll be your host this hour. George Campbell co hosting with me. Let's get to David now in Orlando, Florida. David, how can we help today?

I'm just kind of getting into this. Started listening to you guys a few months ago, and I'm trying to pay off a little bit of personal debt that I have, but I am unsure of kind of the best way of doing. I read through the steps, and I'm working on paying down roughly 20,000 in personal debt and have some maybe 5000 in school loans. And then I have 20,000 in vehicles. So I'm just trying to figure out, like, I don't know, it's a new concept of not just kind of make more money so you can survive. And that was always my answer was.

I'll just make more money out earn the stupidity. Oh, I'm glad you're here, man. Welcome to our crazy crew.

By the way, you're not alone, David. No shame in your game here. We've all been there.

So what's your income.

Before taxes? Maybe 320 a year.

Whoa. Fantastic. What do you do?

I work with computers and cybersecurity.

Nice. See, I'm trying to tell people we.

Had a guy earlier in cybersecurity making 50, and we're like, what are you.

Doing, David, really quick question. How much was your education and what did you get?

I think total ended up being probably 60 or 70,000.

Would you believe we had a young guy that was how much in debt?

$270,000 in student loans for computer science degree, now making 50.

Can you believe that, David? In cybersecurity? That's what he told us.

Schools, different schools, different prices.

Exactly.

I said, I got a bachelor's in computer information systems.

Well, David, congrats on the big shovel.

Yeah, that helps a ton.

My goodness.

So now it just takes, we got to go, how little can we live on to throw the rest of the debt? And that's where a budget comes into play. Have you actually done a budget laying out your income minus expenses?

Some, but probably not a great one. I said, in my household, we kind of split everything, so half of what I make goes into all of the house.

Are you married?

All of the house things, yeah.

Okay, so what's the total household income? Is your spouse working outside the home?

Yes. She brings in before taxes, like 150.

So you're telling me you guys are making 470 gross income somewhere in that ballpark. And you're in 45,000 of consumer debt?

Yes. I guess since we split it, I think of my personal consumer debt. I said, outside of that, we just have the house and then her car and then whatever personal debt she has. But she doesn't have any school loans, so any credit card and so forth.

I would encourage you, this is an aside, but to combine finances completely and attack these debts together with both of your incomes. Okay, what's stopping you guys from doing that right now?

I think we learned that the system really worked well when we started doing this way. I said early on in the marriage, it was one person makes more, and it felt like they weren't paying their part in. Then it was like, all right, each person pays in their part. That goes towards all the family stuff.

Yeah, I used to do that when I had a roommate, but when I got married, that wasn't going to fly with my wife, because if my wife stays home, I don't go. Well, you're not bringing any income. That means you don't get to eat out this month. And so I think it creates a weird tension in a marriage that doesn't need to exist.

Whose idea was this, yours or hers? Are you both equally for this separating of the finances?

I think we're both equally for it. This was before maybe the high point of our earning. And it would fluctuate, one person making 60, 70. And then it was like, all right, well, you have to put in your portion for the. Before we were married and all that. All right. It never seemed to equate out. And then it was like, all right, whatever half of what you make is goes into the family pot. It pays for vacations, it pays for activities, all of that stuff.

George is suggesting this for a reason, that we're unified. But I can tell when he made that suggestion, it was like me saying, you should eat kale for three meals a day for three straight months. You were like, okay, thanks, George. I don't think you're going to do that.

I just think it's going to speed up the process, and it's going to create a better marriage. Both and.

Okay, I agree.

What's your wife's car loan?

I think she has maybe 20,000 left on it.

Okay, so you're 65,000 all in on consumer debt in this household, right?

Yes.

You make 470. Let's say you bring Home 250 plus. That's about 55% take home with that income.

Okay.

Is that fair?

That seems fair.

That's about 21 grand a month if you guys aren't investing, even if you are, that should be 21 to 25 grand a month you're taking home. Okay, so the question is, can we live off of five grand and throw 20 at the debt and be done in three months?

Probably. I can't imagine that we couldn't.

And that's where the budget, instead of a probably, the budget says yes. If you follow this math and process, which you do in cybersecurity, there's a lot of processes, and you're a process guy. You will be out of debt in three or four months completely. Not just your debt, her debt, too. And then you're going to free up all of those payments that can now go toward investing and spending and enjoying life. Okay, so I'm going to gift you our every dollar premium budget to help you lay this out. And you're going to list income at the top both of your incomes. Every single paycheck gets its own line item. Below that is going to be every single one of your expenses, from food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, whatever it is. And for the next three or four months, you're going to hunker down and go, how little can we live on to get by to throw the rest of the debt? And I'm telling you, if you do that for four months, you guys will be debt free.

Okay. No, that sounds great.

And you're going to list out your debts from smallest to largest balance, even if it's three different student loans making up the five k, split it all out, pay them off. Smallest to largest balance. Ignore the interest rates. This is about momentum and progress. And I'm telling you, man, call us back if it doesn't work, because I will be shocked if you don't call back three months from now saying, dude, we're debt free. It worked.

Yeah, no, that sounds good.

David, we're going to challenge you to sit down and have a new conversation, a different conversation, about how George challenged you, and I agree with him, to combine your finances and what that's going to do, not just for your financial prowess and the ability to multiply things, but also just for your marriage.

Couples that do this together, that do money together, they have better lives because you're either growing apart or you're growing together. And I found people with separate finances, they tend to grow apart, and I'm not okay with that.

Yeah.

And I think they are apart from day one. It's just a different life. I got my life and expenditures, and you got yours. And, oh, by the way, we've got this little pot we're contributing to.

Listen, couples that venmo each other. Y'all good, bro? Yeah, y'all good?

I don't know what is happening. It's like my fantasy football league. We all put $100 in at the start of the season.

And, hey, that's not the kind of fantasy I want to live.

Well played. George Campbell, folks. He's going to be here for the rest of the show. You don't want to miss more of those quips. This is the Ramsey show.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you@ramseysolutions.com. Slash agent. Ramseysolutions.com slash agent.

Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation about your life. We do it with you here on the Ramsay show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is triple 825-5225 time for our question of the day. It's sponsored by neighborly your hub for home services. There are some things around the house you can handle yourself. I can't, but maybe you can. But electrical problems probably aren't on the list. You know what you do, George? When you have electrical problems, what do you do? You contact Mr. Electric. Naturally.

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Ramsay today's question comes from Angela in Utah. I keep hearing about 78% of people in the US living paycheck to paycheck, and I am wondering if we are these people. We do not have debt. We paid off the house, have our one year emergency fund, paid cash for college for our son, and have iras. We try to live a modest lifestyle, but we need our paychecks to fund it. Does this mean we live paycheck to paycheck? Do we need to be very wealthy, to not need income at all, to not be paycheck to paycheck? Well, good news, Angela. You're doing great. You are not in the bucket of what we would call paycheck to paycheck. And here's how I know that the idea of paycheck to paycheck, this can mean a lot of things, depending on who you ask. But my definition is if you cover your just necessary bills and have nothing left over, you are paycheck to paycheck. But you guys clearly have a lot of money left over. You're able to fund retirement, you're able to save up the emergency fund. You're able to pay cash for college. And so that would, by definition, mean you're not paycheck to paycheck now.

Yes, you need income to keep up your current lifestyle and make it sustainable and cover bills. That's normal. But the idea is, if one paycheck went missing, you guys would still be okay. You have your emergency fund. You've got your bills taken care of. So that's how I see it.

Ken. Yeah. What do you think?

I agree with you. That concept just is that we have zero money until we get paid next time. And you are not in that situation. I mean, a one year emergency fund, plenty. You got cash for your son, the IRAs, she doesn't tell us. But I'll guarantee you, when you see a person that's got a one year emergency fund, I could tell you their.

Iras are chock full and they probably have a bunker just in case something.

Goes down in Utah. Nonetheless. Good point.

So yeah, I mean, the way I look at it, when we do a zero based budget, income minus expenses equals zero. So when my wife and I sit down to budget, every dollar is accounted for. There's not just money sitting around because we've put it all in its proper place.

Right.

Maybe that's investing in retirement and 401 ks. Maybe that's putting it away in the high yield savings account or spending. But it doesn't mean that we have no money. We've just allocated every dollar intentionally.

Yeah.

And where are you on the emergency prepping? Where are you on the scale to you don't care at all to you've got a bunker.

I'm in the don't care at all. And here's my thing. Find a friend who's got the bunker and set up an arrangement. So like John Deloney. That's my buddy.

Yeah.

Something goes down, I'm going to John's cabin in the woods.

It's going to be awkward when he doesn't let you in.

That's the hope is that they actually let me in.

I am on the not do anything at all because I believe that there's just no matter if whoever they is wants to cook you with the drones and all the things. Yeah.

They'll find you.

I'm just heading to the beach. Well, I'm ready for the good lord.

To take me at that point.

You know what I mean?

Why stick around in a post apocalyptic?

I don't want to be there.

Left behind tribulation universe.

I'm gonna go out, get myself a good margarita, sit on the beach, sand between the toes. And when it all ends, I'm gonna watch it happen. It's gonna be great.

Drink your gumby slumber and take a long slumber.

Well, this is a great suggestion.

There we go.

Great suggestion. All right, there's your segment on emergency prepping from Ken and George. We really don't care. So not the show. For that topic, Julie is waiting for us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Julie, how can we help?

Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. What we're looking for is a solution to reduce our workload. My husband currently works full time and we have investment properties as well.

Okay, tell us more about his job. What does he do and how much does he make?

He does maintenance type work and he makes approximately fifty two k per year.

Okay. And are the rental properties paid for?

They are paid, except for many properties. Yeah, 15 properties, 18 doors.

Okay, and how many are paid off?

I would say 60% to 65% of them.

And do you work outside the home?

I manage the properties.

What kind of revenue? What are you guys paying yourself, if anything at all, from these rentals?

Yeah, well, I would say on average, we're bringing in about 6500 profit.

Yes, 6500 a month profit. And then are you guys paying yourself out of that, or are you just putting that money back into maybe a fund or something that takes care of expenses? What are you doing with the 6500 a month?

Yeah. So up until recently, we were not having that much income because we've just paid some off recently. So it generally just rolls over in the checking account or we have it in a savings account as well.

And what are you wanting to do? What's your question?

We just work a lot. My husband works 40 hours a week and goes to work. And then almost two to three times a week he needs to go out and make a repair. We work a lot of Saturdays when there's turnover with cleaning and things like that, it's hard to find people who want to do that kind of work that are reliable.

So are you wanting to have him quit his full time job?

Well, that's my question. I don't know if that's a wise decision. We have medical benefits to his full time job.

Well, your take home pay from these rental properties, will it increase if he's working on this full time, what would that do?

Yes, we paid about 65,000 last year for someone to do repairs that my husband would then be doing.

And he's capable of doing every single one of those repairs. It was just a time issue?

Yes, it's just a time restriction.

What's your equity on these? So, I know you've got, I think you said 16 properties and you owe 250 total across all of those.

Right.

So of the ones that are paid off, what's your equity?

Oh, probably around the same.

What do you mean?

What do you mean the same?

Two hundred and fifty k?

Yes, probably closer to 400k.

So 15 properties total are only worth 650k.

I'd say 15 properties total are worth about a million.

Okay, well, you owe 250, which means you have 750 in equity.

Right?

Okay, you see where we're going. And the reason I'm asking this question, Julie, is because if he would prefer to walk away from the current maintenance job and the only thing keeping him there is benefits, then you want to get to a place where you're self insured. Right. And the only way to get self insured is to look at, can we cash in some of these properties, pay off the 250? So George is doing the math for you. So that's why I'm asking that question, because I want George to kind of weigh in. I personally would start unloading some properties, remove the debt, and then look at.

And do your homework on plan what.

It'S going to cost. Yeah.

Because I've got friends who do this, Julie, full time. They're in the rental investment property business. They are paying thousands a month in health insurance because they have to go get private healthcare out in the marketplace versus through an employer. And it's a huge cost that could make this not worth the juice, may not be worth the squeeze here is what I'm trying to say.

And so where I'm going, Julie, is, do we cut back on how many properties we own to where? Because this is about time. This phone call is about.

We're working our property management company, and they take a cut, and it lowers your take home pay, but it alleviates the time on Saturdays. And all this stuff that you called.

In about, we got about 40 seconds. What are you thinking, Julie, about what we said?

The other thing I did want to mention is we have the means to pay these off. Now, do you have the cash? I have the cash. I could pay them off.

Do it. You know what that's going to do? Increase your cash flow?

Yeah, I'd look into property management.

It's going to reduce your risk. And then you can afford to do the property management, take the cut and still be fine.

But you guys are trying to reduce your amount of time working on these things. So you got to weigh it. How much is it costing us financially to manage all these properties ourselves? This is a simple formula. You guys just need to cut back somewhere, pay more somewhere else. But I'm proud of you. This is a great situation to be in. This is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back, America. We're talking about you, with you. This is the Ramsay show, helping you win in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, and we're here for you this hour. Triple 8825-5225 Triple 825-5225 let's go to Birmingham, Alabama, not too far south of us, here in the Nashville area. And Ryan awaits. Ryan, how can we help?

Hey, quick question for you guys. I am 24 years old, and I work in the sawmill supply industry. And I'm a salesman.

I'm sorry, the what?

I work in the sawmill supply industry.

Sawmill. I apologize.

Okay.

You're good. And I make around 45,000 a year. I have no benefits. I make no commission on any sales, and I do deliveries to kind of supplement what I do at the shop there. And I end up working a lot of overtime and being on salary. I don't get paid for that overtime. And I think last year, through about October through December, I worked 76 hours of overtime and I didn't see a penny for it. And I have talked to my boss, and it's kind of a hard situation because my wife's cousin is married to my boss, and we go to church with them. We're very good friends with them. And I had a conversation about it, telling him that I wasn't really exactly happy with working that amount of overtime and not getting paid for it. And he looked at me and he told me, I completely understand. If I was in your shoes, I'd feel the same way. And then the next day proceeds to send me out to out. And I worked about 30 hours of overtime that weekend. And I had asked to have off Monday, the day off. And he told me that that wouldn't work.

How should I go about handling that from the work life and the, I guess, family life, social life situation? I'm just really confused about how to handle it.

Okay, so you need to handle it the way that you would want somebody to handle it with you. So you put yourself in his shoes, and you've already been really upfront.

Yes.

I'm going to reserve my real feelings about this guy because he's married to your wife's cousin. I could care less about the married connection. So I'm going to reserve what I really think about the guy and just tell you that you need to start looking today, period.

Yeah.

And when you find something that is something that you enjoy, maybe sales, you're good at sales. You got something that the compensation is matched up to your effort and there's no lid on you. You are in a situation where there is a lid on you. You have very respectfully, it sounds like, raised your objections. And he kind of said, I understand. I'd be the same way if I'm you, but sucks to be you. I need you to go out this weekend and I'm not giving you money off. I mean, it's just tone deaf. So that's about all I'm going to say. I already went past the line. I said I wasn't going to say anything. I couldn't help myself. But here's the deal. You find something else that's better, that gives you a ladder. So better in the now and better in the next is our goal. Does that make sense? And then once we find that, we accept that job and we get that deal done, then we walk into him and you treat him with class, even though I don't think he's been classy to you, I think you go in and you just treat him like, hey, man, listen, I appreciate what you've done for me.

Gave me an opportunity to work here. I appreciate it. I found a better opportunity for me and my future. I'm turning in my resignation.

And you wave to him at church and everything's fine.

That's right.

There's something beyond. I don't think you're staying here because of the relationship. Are you worried that you can't find something better or that you don't know what that next thing is?

Basically what happened was me and my wife. I actually moved here about three months before I got married. I'm originally from Ohio. I went to school down in Florida. That's where me and my wife met. She's from Florida and we moved here. So we're about 10 hours from both of our families. We would kind of like to be closer, but just right now, I'm just afraid of. I won't be able to find anything.

There it is.

If I were to quit.

Yeah. Let's think that fear is unsubstantiated.

100%.

To give you a big word, let's.

Play that fear out, Ryan.

Okay. Fear.

I'm not going to be able to find anything. Okay.

So we look, not being able to find anything, just more of, like, something that would compare. My wife does have a job and we make together about 85,000 a year. So we're not by any means struggling.

What do you want to do?

Right? I eventually would love to. Before I went to college, my brother and I, we had a decent lawn care business when I lived back in Ohio, and I would love to get back into that and doing general property maintenance, that kind of thing. I'm good at it. I know what I'm doing. And it was just. My fear is my wife and I are wanting to start to have kids. I would love for her not to have to work, but right now she has to.

Yeah.

But hey, I can't plan my weeks out or anything, because usually these trips I go on, I know the day of if I'm going and if I'm going to be gone for three days at a time. And it's just a struggle because also, my boss's father, who actually owns the company I work for, we have financed our house through him, and he said he'd be willing to buy it back, but we're just tied in a lot of different ways and I don't know how to handle it.

Well, I just told you how to handle it. And in the finance thing, I mean, he wants to get paid back. So if you handle yourself like a turd, maybe he changes the terms, maybe he tries to mess with, but you're not going to handle yourself that way.

If you went to him and said, hey, we're going to move, we need to sell the property, what happens next?

He actually said whenever we want to sell the property, he would buy it back from us for how much ever is owed.

Well, then for how much is owed?

Wait, did he give you that? I don't understand.

No, sorry. It was a mortgage. We had a mortgage through him. Basically, he was acting as our bank.

So he gets the mortgage back with 0% interest.

Right. We're paying about 5% interest right now. So he said, whatever we have not paid off of our mortgage, that's what he will buy the house back for.

That's what I'm saying. That feels like a crummy deal for you guys. You lose all of your equity.

Exactly.

This sounds like a scam.

Yeah. And a part of what I'm going through right now is the reason that the mortgage was so high. The house was bought for about 150, but he tied into that mortgage as a loan to remodel that house. And a lot of it was, they did surface work, but our plumbing is bad, our duct work is bad, all that kind of stuff. And we just got quoted $17,000 to fix all that, and I don't know if I want to spend $1,000 into a house. You got used, dude.

You got played, and it sucks. And it's a stupid tax that you might have to pay at the end of this. But I'm getting out of this whole situation. I would stop getting tied with family and boss situation.

I mean, Ryan, you got a bad deal, and there's no fixing this bad deal. Get out of it now. Now I want to go back to the other issue of the fear, George's great perception there. Listen, if you want to get into lawn care, you're not making a ton of money right now. You're making 45 a year, I think I wrote down. Is that right?

Right. Yeah, dude. Correct.

You could go make 45 a year for somebody who needs somebody who's a hustler and who will get out there and do a lot of the work himself managing properties. I believe you can go from 45 to 45 right now with not too much effort in Birmingham. But more importantly, I would look to get into the lawn care business, property management business. Now, here's why someone's going to pay you to learn how to do it for yourself one day. I don't think this is a big stretch, but listen, instead of sitting around thinking about it and stewing about what would happen when you leave, start thinking about what you want your life to look like. You need to cut ties with these people. I think it's manipulative that you're in a manipulative, unhealthy, weird situation, and you need to be thinking about what you and your wife want to do, who you want to be, where you want to do it, how you want to do it. Take some ownership of your life. I think you got to be moving into the area you want to be in the future, but have someone else pay you to learn how to do it with a path to 55, 65, 75,000, $100,000.

Let's go. Let's start looking today. Like, when you hang up, you need to start looking.

And I already have been. I've already started down that process. I've got a lot of connections in the town and where I lived, and I've handed out cards and everything. I know it's doable. I just would hate fur because my father in law is a very successful businessman, and I'm just trying to be as good as I can at what I do. You money for me.

You're terrified to offend somebody, and you got to stop. I want to bring it back to George, for the remaining 30, 40 seconds here on what he needs to do on this house situation, take it away.

You need to figure out what the terms are that you signed to, if there are any, and get out of this deal as unscathed as possible and get your equity back. I don't like this deal where he gets it for whatever's left on the mortgage versus the market value. So you need to figure all that out. Do your homework so that you guys get out of this thing with as much money as possible. Man, that sucks. Golly, that makes me angry.

Time to man up, Ryan, and not worry about what everybody else is going to think or say about what you are supposed to do with your life. You're a good dude. Own it and make some action happen quickly. This is the Ramsay show. Welcome back to the Ramsay show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. Our scripture today comes from Isaiah 68. Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I send and who will go for us? And I said, here am I. Send me our quote from Thomas Edison. If we did all the things we are really capable of doing, we would literally astound. I feel like that's got a sports reference for you, George. And I feel.

I don't think Thomas Edison was a big sports guy.

No, but I'm applying it.

Oh.

He's saying if we did all the things we're really capable of doing, we would astound ourselves. And this is my encouragement and pitch to get you out on the pickleball court with me. I know you're a little reluctant to do any kind of sport.

I feel like over 30. You're asking for a torn ACL on the pickleball court.

No, I've been playing for months, and I'm fine.

These hammies don't move like they used to, Ken. I'll tell you that much.

I've played golf with you. What are the chances that we play pickleball?

After seeing me play golf, I'm surprised you ever want to see me do.

I think it's a lot less work. It's a lot less motion. You just keep it in. Know it's not this big, long swing. True story, James. I played golf with George one time on a Ramsey personality retreat. And I don't want to exaggerate here, but you swung at the ball on one tee, I think, six times, and never hit the ball. It was the funniest thing I ever.

Everybody was laughing because I was just hitting air or dirt.

I was on the ground. I was sitting on the ground beside myself, watching you. Because you were really trying.

Yeah.

And you weren't swinging hard. That's the other thing. It wasn't because you were really going after it. You were like an old woman missing it. Yeah, but I appreciate that you went out there and did it, but to.

Be fair, I also.

You did.

Destroyed you in mini golf one time.

That is such a rumor. There was no destroying. You snuck up on me. Because I wasn't taking it seriously.

All right. Hey, bring Ken to the skate park and see how he does on a skateboard. There we go. I'll outskate you any day.

I will admit that I wouldn't be able to stay on the skateboard more than.

That's an extreme sport, Ken.

No, I couldn't do it. I have no ability on a skateboard. So there you go.

We stick to behind the desk because it's a safe place for us.

A safe place on the mic is a good place. How about Harold joining us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin? Harold, how can we help?

Hey, guys. I'm a little nervous, so I apologize.

Well, listen, you just heard the two of us talking to each other. How could you possibly nervous talking to.

Well, George and Ken, by the way, thank you for taking my call.

You're doing great.

Yeah, thank you, George. Just want to tell you that your book has changed my life around a lot.

How about that?

The world.

Harold, I'll be honest, man. I got one more chapter to finish up, which is tonight. But I'm a newbie. I started listening to a show three weeks ago by a friend who kept telling me, like, you got to listen to Dave Ramsey. I'm like, who's this guy he's talking about? And started plugging in. And to this day, I'll listen to all your episodes back in November just to keep me going and going. But my question is, I am in $31,000 in debt, 20,000 in school loans, and 10,000 is in my credit cards and stuff. But I think I make good money. Last year, I grossed out about $110,000. I have a goal, and my. Why is my kids, my kids and my girlfriend. But my goal is I want to clear my debt off just because I want to be able to take my family on a real vacation. I've never got to experience that as a kid, but I want to take my daughter to Disney World.

It's a great. Why.

I love changing the family tree.

Have an amazing experience.

Yeah.

Tell him how he does it, George.

Well, we're going to help you break these chains, man, you're going to never see debt again. After we're done with you, you make 110, you're 31,000 in debt. So there's a simple math equation here and it's how little can we live off of and how quickly can we pay off the debt with the margin we create.

Correct?

Yeah.

Not to cut you off, no. Good. Within these three weeks, I paid off two credit cards and like I said, I forgot to include it was I have two personal loans, which are roughly about 5001 of them. I only owe 1200. And I feel like if I pay that personal loan, that will save me a lot more money to keep going after more of my credit cards. But yes, I'm sorry, not to cut you off, but I just wanted to.

No, that's help you.

Well, I found the people who actually pay off debt, they follow the debt snowball method and what you're wanting to do is, hey, let's free up the bigger payment, let's do it this way. But we found that you're going to knock out these debts so quickly that it's not really going to make a mathematical difference, but it will make a psychological and emotional difference when you knock out another two, three credit cards in the next month because of that momentum that you've created. And so you're going to free up the payments either way and making 110, how quickly do you think you'll be able to pay off this 31,000 plus the personal loans with some intensity.

I'm hungry. I'll be honest, eight months.

Great answer.

I'm hungry. My goal, I'm not going to lie. I told myself six to twelve months. Love it, but I'm trying to attack it as soon as possible.

You got any savings?

I do. I actually have about my emergency fund of $1,000.

Good.

That I put to the side, but I also have an extra about 5000 as well.

Dude, that's amazing. So if you list out your debt smallest to largest, how many can you knock out? With that 5000 sitting in savings?

I can knock down, I want to say, two credit cards and a personal loan.

That's amazing. And that's going to free up a whole bunch of payments which you're going to apply to the next debt and the next debt. So I fully believe this debt is gone in six months. Pause all investing, just go scorched earth. I mean, cover food, utility, shelter, transportation, take care of the kids, but outside of that you're just working, man.

Yeah, and I'm not going to lie, I've been with my girlfriend for seven years, and I want to put a ring as well this year. So that's probably another reason why I want to go to Disney World. Just propose to her and surprise her.

Oh, I love this.

I got engaged at Disney World.

Did you?

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

You don't know the story.

Following the footsteps of greatness, Harold, with.

Karen over here telling you she will tell that story for the rest of your life, it's a great move, but you got to pay all this stuff off. I mean, like, when this phone call is over, George, is he not cutting? You're knocking out the three, dad five grand. Boom. Let's go.

Yeah, I will.

I will. And then I do have one last question.

All right, real quick, because you got to get to it fast. We got about two minutes, Harold.

Yeah.

With the financial peace university, I was thinking about buying it tonight to actually take. I don't know. I guess once I start something, I don't want to stop. So I'm so focused into this right now. I was thinking about investing in the financial peace university to probably help me more, to keep me going and going and going.

Save the $100. We'll gift it to you. Boom. I don't know if that's your angling for, but I'm in a good mood today, and I like you, Harold. And while we're at it, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, breaking free from broke so you can get someone else's journey started.

Oh, my God.

Thank you.

How about that?

I appreciate that. You just made my day.

Yeah, I'll sign it for you and personalize it as well. So I'll get with the team. Hang on the line. Austin will get you hooked up with financial Peace University, and I'll send you a signed copy of the book since you're an inspiration to me.

Man.

I love a guy who just decided one day, Ken woke up and said, enough is enough. I work too hard to feel this broke. I'm done with debt. I'm done with games. I want to leave a different kind of legacy for my family. Done with the chains. I got kids. I got a girlfriend that I want to marry and start a life with. What am I doing still playing around with debt?

And can we just highlight the fact that he's got a great motivator in the form of a vision that he really wants? He wants to take his daughter, take the girlfriend to fireworks, everything. And that is pulling him forward like a magnet to knock this debt out Harold, you did great. I know you're nervous, but, man, you're just crushing it. And financial peace University is George's pre wedding gift.

I love that. Good way to look at it.

And I will tell you, my friend, call up the Disney wedding department. Tell them, look, I want to do something custom. Here's what I have to spend. What can I do? That's what I did back in the day.

You tell them the budget.

Yeah.

Now I'm sure times have changed. Do you think it's still going to cost a nickel and a bushel of raspberries to make something?

I had five gifts delivered throughout the day at different times. Stacey thought I was in Virginia. I was there with a Disney staffer behind the scenes. Her father was leading her to different places throughout the park, and she got five different gifts with a note saying, I'm sorry I couldn't be with you. Today was all a setup.

I didn't know such a romantic.

We ended up right below the castle. Tinkerbell flies over. I pop out from behind us, a sign. Bada bing, bada, bada bing, bada boom. Put a ring on it. 25 years later, the magic is.

Congratulations.

The magic is still there. George Campbell. Great show. James Childs, our fearless leader in the crew. Thank you, guys. And thank you, America. This is your show. This is the Ramsay show.

Hey, guys, I'm Rachel.

And I'm George.

And you've probably heard our voices before on the Ramsey show.

And do we have a surprise for you.

Yep, we have our very own show, smart money happy hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and, of course, money. George. It's a great show. And what else do we talk about?

So much, Rachel. Not enough. And yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control, and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.

I'm glad you were taking such a stand.

And we also talk about something else. I'm passionate about Disney adults. Why is it a thing?

Listen. Some adults still find the magic.

Sure.

We also talk about toxic money, traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast.

Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun.

We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say.

We help you out.

So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.