Happy Scribe
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The aim of the show has always been to become an online library of India's best success stories and eventually the world's best success stories around. One is a brother.

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He's a dear friend. He's also someone who's paving the way for India's entire pop music scene. He made it big in Bollywood. He's made it big in the international space as well. Now, he's the only Indian single in the history of Indian singles who's made it to the billboard charts and who's made an impact on the international stage.

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This is Armand's real life story.

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And I don't want to call it a struggle story because I strongly feel that your struggles are very important in turning you into the person you need to be in order to get to where your soul wants to be in life.

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I hope you gain inspiration and insight from this episode of the Runway Show, because Armande really spoke from his heart.

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He's spoken about things that you may never have known about him. Even if you're not someone who's interested in the music industry or from the music industry, I highly recommend you watch this podcast just to understand what sheer human will and dedication can do for someone's life and someone's career. This is the bomb of inspiration brought to you by Ranvir and Armand Malik on the runway show.

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But before I begin the podcast, just want to remind you to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Baba Service, where he hosts the video version of this podcast and subscribe to that and show clips I told Channel that just contains the highlights from every single episode.

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If you want a quick dose of knowledge, go check out the visual clips on YouTube.

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Enjoy yourselves, guys. Mr. Aid of the almond milk in the house. What's up in my house? In your house?

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Dude, I want to talk about your story. What aspects of you that I think I'm fortunate enough to know what I think that the world doesn't know. I'm ready, man.

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You just bring it on and I'm ready to talk about a lot of stuff. So while we are going to begin with your Saregama story, I want to know I have a lot of questions from that part of your life.

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We're also going to go into who you are today. Are you planning to go abroad and live there and create English music? What are you thinking about life in general? Because I was living literally walk down and walk.

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Do you really think in like 20 places it's a good correct. What's your earliest memory of getting into this whole singing zone, dude? Like, did it come naturally to you?

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So I was like around four when I like sort of talking properly. I was singing. I don't know how that happened. And my parents saw that and they were like, you know, I think this guy has some singing talent and we should put in four glasses. And then they told me an Indian classical glasses. And for a year I was training at Rutgers Institute, but it was a fabulous class, but way beyond my age.

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So I kind of went back there after a few years to learn stuff and I knew that I could grasp that.

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But then I went to a teacher called Rita All, and she's a Kashmiri lady and she is the guru that has made me want to say, yeah, she's she's the one who kind of, you know, put all those grains in my voice, got me to sing the way I do today, got me to be a singer that could sing playback playback for movies, because being a classically trained singer sometimes can be disadvantageous when you're trying to sing film songs, because the kind of training that you have as a classical vocalist might not translate into restricted, not restricts you when you're singing a filmy song, when you're singing for heroes and you need a different kind of an approach, you need a different kind of dynamic.

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And I think heavy classical training. I did like classical, semi classical, but I didn't do heavy classical because I didn't want my voice to sound so hard.

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I needed that little bit of softness for the screen, for playback singing.

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And that's that's how my be also my guru planned to kind of teach me in that way. So I would grow up to be a playback singer at eight, at fifteen, at twenty or twenty five. I'd have had different almond milk versions of my voice.

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So what's your, what's your like Saregama memory. Like when you're like coming on TV as a kid.

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Like I told you when I was I was nine and I don't plan on the show. Wow. Yeah. What's, what's that memory like. Dude, you're just like out there for the nation to see you putting your dad in doubt.

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Um, so I think my dad wasn't very keen on me participating in on a reality show. He was he was wanting me to do my education and my studies and stuff like that. He being from the film industry, he he didn't want me to get into music so early on. And me and my mom were of another thought. We were like, you know, why don't we go? Why don't we try and let's see where you stand as a vocalist?

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Because till then, I sung for, like in the school competitions and I'd done fairly well there. And I was like wanting to challenge myself and be like, OK, I've done these state level things. Why not try a national level thing and see where I stand and what caused a good decision?

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Like when you look great decision, even though I didn't make make it past seven, I was in the top ten finalists. But it was a great decision for me because I learned so much. I was I was not the singer that I should have been. And I was on that show like I was I was trained to be very frank. I don't think I was at the level of the other singers on that show. They were much more experienced.

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They had sung live before. And this was my first time singing on such a big stage in front of a TV audience. And then obviously, almost every household in India is seeing you because Saregama is one of those shows that I can always go. We all know that then people see those shows. So for me, it was pretty scary. But I had to go through that to learn to learn how to be a better singer. I think as soon as I got out of that show, I worked so hard and as soon as that show got to, I knew where exactly I was lacking.

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And I trained in that department and strengthened myself as a singer.

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So it was something I've not told you before. I met do once or twice. It's on me. I'm sorry.

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I'm no, no, dude, I was like a video game. Kid, so I didn't watch much TV, but I'll tell you this, dude, so you went the Nazi and I have a lot of friends from them and I'm not very familiar with the whole Bollywood scene in general, but I remember them telling me about you when I was in engineering college, OK?

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And these guys said, like, you know, things like there were people who would pick on you just because you were famous or like who bullied you just because you were famous. Yeah.

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And you're one of those dude who ended up having a lot of attention.

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So probably that became a problem, a problem for a lot of dudes. And I was at this party actually summed up the way people were like, I'm going to be straight up, dude. Like, you know, just people generally bitch about someone. They are. So that bitching thing was going on about you. Yeah. And that got me thinking that would put it like, you know, he's probably training and doing his own thing and then he's gone back to school and deal with all this shit.

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So what was that phase of it? I do remember that. I do remember him coming in as another fact from the side, the other getting aggression because people are jealous of you. I very well remember that. And it's because of that phase of my life that I was almost going to leave Cindy.

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And the bullying had gotten very bad in school. I was in the sixth or seventh grade, I think when it started and I was on the show, I was on national television. My school was very proud of me that I was on on, uh, you know, representing Bombi and representing them on such a big scale. And they will vote for Armaan Holdings all around school. So I was pretty famous and obviously, girl attention happened because when you're famous.

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Yeah, it happens.

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Uh, I think it's because and at that age, I think every guy is just seeking for global attention. And they were like, okay, why is this guy getting it?

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I saw that these guys were getting affected with, you know, the fame that I was getting, getting insecure. And somehow there was an atmosphere of jealousy and hatred. And they started doing things to me. They started, you know, putting shit into my bottle, my water bottle, like. And so when I managed to come back from class, I wanted to grab my bottle and drink it. And like, there was all crap in it, like they had done some Muste with it or whatever.

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And it's just one of those instances, I think I can't really remember all of it. It's gone to a very, very deep seated part of my head because I've tried to forget about it. But it hurt me so much that I wanted to leave singing.

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And I expressed that to my mom. And my mom told me that that's the one thing that if you leave now, then they'll win. And that's the one thing that you shouldn't leave. That's the one thing that if you hold and keep it and become who you want to and who you should be and are destined to be, all this will be behind you. You won't even you won't even care about this in the future.

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I have to ask you a glaring question. Bullying carries itself into adulthood also. It does for a lot of people. For me, ever since I became successful, I saw all those same people who used to bully me and, you know, trying to be my friends again.

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And we value Otterman again. Hey, what's up, Bamburgh?

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Yeah, you know, all that has happened with me and I I of I also played along with it. I was doing that. I was not like, you know, gee, I'm holding any grudges and all. But I, I forgive, but I don't forget. And I know at the back of my head who was treated me how and but I don't hold it against anyone I know. I've gone above that. It's no more a part of me, but it dented me in a very big way, in a way where I stopped making friends.

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After that, I stopped interacting with people. I stopped wanting to be a friend of someone because I thought everyone was going to do this to me. Everyone is going to bully me. Someone on the other is going to do something to me, which is negative, which is bad. So I better not interact with people on this. I became a recluse kind of thing, my own thing. Music for any street, only music, only studies, only music, music, music, music.

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Achieve what I need to because I just need I concentrated only on singing, took my whole attention off of it.

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So social life went for a dose because I wasn't really meeting people wasn't going out and my, my job demanded me to be in the recording studio quite a bit. So I missed out on all the parties and hanging out with people and stuff like that.

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Dude, speaking of the recording studio, again, something I've thought about you a lot is that you begun like I, I think is nineteen eighty nine is where you began probably professionally as an adult playback singer.

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Yeah, I usually for most Indian guys, especially at age 22, you had this like wall where. Suddenly, the societal pressure on you, darling, money and do something with your life or at least to make a name for yourself, and I remember going through that same phase at 22 and the first three months of that phase before you do.

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Well, I, I was pretty intense because a lot of your anguish at one will go. What you're doing is wrong.

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It happens to all the boys, all girls at are correct and then take something from inside you to like they don't want to keep working and you straight up.

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I wouldn't be able to handle or let your daddy deal 19. So I want to know what you did then do it like as a teenager, you're suddenly thrown in the limelight.

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You didn't actually go for a college degree like you saw. I was in foster BMN and I was I was doing it not from the not from a place where I want to do be a mom or whatever. I was like. That's the only thing that made sense to me at that point because I wanted to concentrate on my music. So if I remember I was I was there inside college.

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I was hanging out as a normal teenager when I was working on my debut album, Armaan. OK, so we need to backtrack a little bit. Before I went to college, I had got a scholarship to do a five week summer program at Berklee College of Music in Boston, and that's one of the best colleges of music that is ever in the world. And I got honors in that. And I realized that, you know, I want to do English music.

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I want to do pop music and that, OK, Bollywood is there. But like, that's on my calling card. And as soon as I came back home to Bombay after completing the course, I started making my own songs, starting writing my own lyrics.

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And my dad saw me doing that.

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And he was like, What are you doing? I would like that. I want to create my own album plowshare.

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I don't think in my album artists, those those vibes, I don't I don't think it's going to work because Bollywood is Bollywood.

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You got to be a Bollywood singer if you want to do anything.

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I was like, no, that was my dream. I want to do this. My dad sat me down and said, can you do the Bollywood route, become someone really, really big in India? And then the model you can think of doing something like this, which may make sense to me now, but at that stage I'm like, we advise my dad telling me to not do something that I'm so passionate about, but.

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India is Bollywood, it was consumed with with only film music, so I kind of dropped my dreams of doing a pop album. I did my pop album, but it was in Hindi. I wanted to do an English one, but I did a Hindi pop album with, you know, until I signed a deal with them at the age of 17, which was a very big deal. It is. It's a dream label to be signed to when you're a teenager.

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Justin Bieber signed to Universal in America. So that is that the first step for like a young single like to get into that world?

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I know.

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But I mean, it is exciting as an artist to be signed to a label only to know that in the future you need to be independent.

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But I think initially it's great to be a label artist. You get to know about the industry. You get to know the inner workings, how a label artist relationship happens, how is music curated? So I worked on my album. I was released. I was about to release it in 2013. It got pushed to 2014. My mom told me being the marketing person she is, that we need a Bollywood name to release this album because otherwise no one is going to listen to albums, who listens to albums into it.

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I don't think anyone is listening to albums in 2014. And we were thinking of putting it out in the CD format and it'll be available in stores. I don't think anyone went out to buy at that point of time.

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It just happened in the 90s, but I still went ahead and did it. But my mom told me I need someone to launch. Do you need a Bollywood personality to launch it? So the only person we could think of who I think made sense at that time was Mr Sullivan. So we went and met him. He was in his vanity when my dad has worked with him for many films, for many Bollywood movies.

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And he was very hesitant that I go and meet him with this album. He was like, you know, don't you know why? Why bother someone else like this and ask, you know, for him to be part of it or whatever. So my mom's like, no, I think it's a great I think it will be a good step for us.

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So my me and my mom, we went as again, you know, competing with our dad. We went to his set. He was shooting an advertisement there. And we waited for quite some time. And then when he came to his vanity run, I gave him my CD and said, So, you know, this album, I would like you to hear it. And in his typical style, he said, cello, let's hear it.

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So we heard the album and he said, Oh, I like it. It's nice, but I like this song the most.

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Hmm. And that song was a song called Love You Till the End. It was the only English song on the album. So I was I wanted one English song, somehow the other.

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And it's like, I want that to be a song in my Bollywood movie. The next one, which is coming, and I was like, so that's in my album, I don't know how I can remove it from my album and put it into a movie I don't really I wanted. So it so happened that one of my songs from my debut Nordenson album. So I was not thinking of Bollywood at that point of time at all. I was not thinking of doing playback singing nothing.

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I was only thinking of releasing my music. Non-food, that's it, like independent space. That song went into Jeho, which was his movie in 2014, and that's how my debut as an adult playback singer happened at the age of 18. And he in turn came to my album launch and launched my album. And that kind of gave it a big noise. And people heard about it and heard the songs and stuff of that dude.

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While this is destiny, this is also the single power of asking, which is a very. I think, you know, you got to be OK. This is what my mom taught me. And even my manager, Irishman of out of the taught and both are amazing marketing minds. My mom is key to me. I'll get whatever I have become. Today's because of her pushing her telling me, do this, do that. She has always told me be shameless and ask for the maximum Gheorghe enabling alone.

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OK, no problem. But at least you have asked. And if that was a yes, that means you've got something. So I think you have to be shameless and you got to ask.

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And sometimes he knows that one. Yes, for sure. Also I think a lot of people, you know, I so scared. I was also very scared. Like I don't want to ask mom. It doesn't seem good. Like it's not it doesn't feel good to ask someone for work.

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Like, no ask. Yeah. What is the harm in asking.

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Yeah. Dude, this is also this whole concept of status driven society, which is where societies in that primarily a status driven society, but libertinism, my status will get affected.

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That's why a lot of people don't. Exactly. They look like Beutner's. They give you know, if we ask, we might seem like a lesser of person or whatever it is.

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It's not that you just you're talented. You have certain things that are going for you. You want a certain thing from that person we are asking this thing for. And if you don't ask, you won't get. Yeah. And if you never try, you'll never know Goldblatt's because lying and fix you. So it's as simple as that. I was launched in Bollywood in a big way.

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Flipside of that is that the movie tanked does not affect the music, the music also tanked. Music didn't do well at all, wasn't popular, didn't catch on with people.

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So it was touted as my big debut, Amal's big debut, because he had composed Love You to the end of that track, which became part of the movie, and both of us for a year and a half without work after that movie, because obviously no one wants to work with someone who's had the big debut, but the music didn't catch on.

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How many singles fade away like that?

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There are many, many, many you don't get to meet on and in especially in Hollywood.

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It is very cutthroat. It is you either you make it or you don't make it. It's I hate to say that. I hate to say it, but I think it's you work a lot. You have to put in that hard work. But that little sprinkle of luck is very important. I believe in that. And you either get that little sprinkle or you don't get it.

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And I mean, there has to be some formula like I mean, I was just talking to you outside right now and you're telling me about what I think about streaming platforms and fugitivity. Yeah. Yeah.

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And what you thought of and what your mom has told you. So you got to have an analytical head. You got an engineer in your head somewhere. Yeah, I guess I am.

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I think I'm a musical mathematician in my brain. And what's the next step? A mathematician in the world of musical business. Yeah, exactly. What did you do in that one and a half years that helped you break out?

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OK, so for me as a single, it gave me a lot of recognition. I got I gained a lot of fans from my social media. I started blowing up. I started getting a lot of followers. I was on Twitter. I had just joined Instagram. So I started getting a lot of traction. People started following me.

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It was very tough for my brother because once you debut as a big music composer and me and my brothers, Carlos Adlington ofay because for us, we we both were just waiting and wanting to get our family up there, because for a long time I think we had seen a lot of failure on d'Argent of the success that he should have gotten.

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He didn't get.

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So what has his role been in Amahl and your life and have a and you had a conversation. We are like, dude, we got to stick together and do some something. Yeah.

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So that actually had this very open conversation with Amahl and me and said, guys, I think my time is done in this industry. I don't think my, you know, my musical career is going to hold on from your on. And if you guys want to make a name for yourself in this industry, you all got to start. Working and assisting people, assisting as in like learning the job we didn't we didn't know, like, you know what, learning music is different and actually being in the music industry and learning how music songs are made and how you sing in the studio is a very different ballgame altogether.

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Like, how do you say you learn more hands on and on the job than you can ever learn from universities or courses or whatever it is? Theory. Yeah, always when you're doing the job, you learn the most. So I think that pushed amale to assist composers and I wasn't even singing for a lot of composers. I had a lot of technical knowledge in the studio and how to sing in the studio.

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And I've done voiceovers, jingles, all of that, like for almost 200 commercials.

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So that was a very, very big space for me until the age of 13 or 14 when my voice cracked and they didn't want any any teenage voices. They wanted only kid voices. From there on, my different journey had begun. So your dad sat us down and told us that I don't think from here on my career is going to do anything. You guys need to take the responsibility and move this thing forward. And at the age of 15, for Amal and me.

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And to hear that from that was like, dude, we got to get shit done. We got to pull our socks up and take responsibility and money wasn't that good in the family at that point of time. Dad was doing two, three things, you know, that like some projects. But it wasn't it wasn't a strong it wasn't we weren't financially strong at that point of time. Tollman started assisting and doing his bit. I started doing recordings.

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Whatever was coming into the house. That's the atmosphere I grew up in. And I think I matured very early because of that. When I started working, when I started owning, when I started seeing what am I spending on? Because you're surrounded by all the people, you know, not because I saw I became involved in owning for the family so early on. And like I realized that, OK, if I'm doing these many recordings, this much is coming into the family.

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So that was a big deal, big responsibility on my shoulders at the age of 11 and 12. And I'm matured like, well, one night I think even today at the age of twenty five, I don't think I'm only twenty five.

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I'm much beyond because I've seen a lot of my parents journey, my journey so up close and so early on, which I don't think any, every kid like you said after 22 when they think like OK, it's a lot bigger than I was since the age of 10, doing it and living it.

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So for me, my mental state was very, very different. And we had to we had to get the family on track, which we worked very hard to do. And when this whole thing happened and when the songs didn't do well, I'm always very disillusioned. He was like, you know, the next thing that I do, if it doesn't work, I'm quitting the industry. And I was like, dude, you just started. You can't think like that.

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It's like, no, no, I know what I have to give my best now. And if the next project doesn't click, I don't think I'm going to stay any more than this. And I lose on business side business. And the next project came in the form of Nenna. There was a song called an iPhone when we called Seurat and we finished recording the song just two days before that at least.

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Wow. And in two nights, we created Nanao from Clepsydra, then we put that out and we've got a fab reaction from fans and everyone and people love that song. The movie did well. Am I got that boost that, you know, I think that's there's still something, you know. So at that point of time, both of us are having this journey together, even though he's a composer. I'm a single. But we were living this dream together.

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And then he got the chance to do Sooraj to buy her from Roy, which was, I think. The career defining, life defining moment for the Mallick family. It was in my song, I was in the single digits and I sang it. But what that song did for our family, I don't think I don't think any other song is done that does music work like that as an industry where like one piece of art.

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Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

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One song can just change everything for you.

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And it's in terms of equal opportunities, harmonizing recognition numbers, everything you get.

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It's a whole rounded success. It's like it's doing killing it on the charts. It's you're getting amazing fans on social media. The traction is amazing. You're getting awarded, you know, you're getting Filmfare awards. You're getting all the big music awards for that. It changed everything for us overnight is typically that example of overnight success takes years to build.

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Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you'd asked I'm all at the time of who he was at the at the brink of giving up his career. And he was like, no, I don't think I want to do this. He was that he was assisting composers at that time. He didn't want to become a composer. He was he became an accidental composer. And then after that album didn't do well. He's like, maybe this is not what I'm cut out for.

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But then when that song became so big, SOORAJ Dubai, I think all of us, just as a family, were like, we got this, we can do this and you don't. You just need that one little bit of success and then that energy comes onto everything that follows after that. And from there on, we had two, three years of continuous snowballing bangles like songs coming out, left, right, center, killing it on the charts.

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I started touring and into 2014 is when I did Jeho 2016. I did my world tour in US and UK, played Wembley in London, which was a dream venue for any artist. And for me, life changed supersonic in those two years. But that whole journey of becoming a man, Malick, wasn't just those two years, which a lot of people see. I mean, a lot of people just thinking that we were in 2016 when he went on his world tour and he got these many songs in awards and recognition.

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But it's this back story that a lot of people don't know, that it's been a build up of 10 to 12 years.

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That's what I like is when we grew up, you know, we looked at people like someone who did not. And they become established in Bollywood and it kind of caps off that got to and from the outside. That's the assumption most people make about the music industry, that once you become a good established payback's Shelf-life Camurati for Gebhard, then, you know, it's it becomes stagnant.

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Yeah, but why did you say that? No, I'd be that was Indian guy who let go and create waves abroad with that from that your original dream ultimately.

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Yes. So I'll tell you one thing. While all this madness was happening of Boldon was that a man who hirota all my big Bollywood hits, the undergarment was like, wait, I want to still do my pop music. I want to do my English music, I want to do international stuff. I want to do stuff globally, write my own songs. What's the thought behind that? The thought is you get to be more involved in those kind of songs than you would ever get to be on a Bollywood track like a Bollywood song.

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A composer called you. He's written, he's composed a song, a lyric writer song. And you just come sing and go via the creator. Yeah, yeah. And in this scenario, I'm getting to create the song. I'm getting to choose what mood I want the song. And what is the video like. What is my image like, what am I being portrayed as.

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What are the clothes I'm wearing in the video. All of that. And that is exciting for me. I want to become an artist and not just a playback singer.

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I took this route so that I could become this what my dad had initially told me that, you know, become a successful artist and become a star in your own country before you try to become a star abroad. So I think it was very sensible of him to build that into me at that age. But inside, a regular man who wanted to come out was waiting, was was dormant for some time and then became very active towards 2017. And that's where I got there was a phase where I came back from a short crying into my room.

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And then I told my mom and dad, like, I cannot do these shows and I don't sing these songs anymore. I'm tired. Same songs I'm singing night after night, same lyrics, the audience maybe liking it because they've heard me for the very first time, but I'm singing it for the end time and I'm done with this. This is not what's inspiring me. I know these songs are made me Malik, but like to hell with this.

[00:31:24]

I just want to I don't want to do any more shows. And I took a break from everything and did what just went traveling. So I wanted to take this trip to do some self discovery to kind of understand who I was inside. Because unless you understand who. You what you can put that out to the world is what I think. And at that point of time, I was very confused about who I was. Was I a Bollywood singer wanting to do this for the rest of my life, like Sonu Nigam, like shone like a gay and all these amazing singers, or was I wanted wanting to become a pop artist of all global musical icon.

[00:32:03]

And that was my dream. While Bollywood has been such a big part of my career. I am on my own because of that. I would never want to lose that from my identity. Even today, if you see I'm doing English songs, but on the side I have mainly songs happening.

[00:32:17]

I have my Bollywood film songs happening, but the true artists inside me is craving to be something that he's wanted to do for a very long time. And I wanted to say that I want to research the truth inside of me. And that's why I took that whole break and went traveling. And I it gave me a lot of a lot of internal peace. And when I came back, I resumed my Bollywood shows. Whatever I was doing, I was happy with it.

[00:32:40]

I guess I just needed that little bit of self realisation, little internal thinking, like, how do you break into the American market or how do you begin that process of becoming an international artist while you're in India?

[00:32:55]

Um, it's very it's very, very tough, to be honest. I just like, you know, any other artist you would think that, you know, just like how there's Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music and us that are Indian counterparts of them. Also here, there's Universal Music, India, the Sony Music, India, everyone in India, um, I thought maybe I'll take my English songs and go to the Indian counterparts and be like, you know, hey, this is my English pop songs.

[00:33:27]

Do you think you can speak to your, uh, you know, global partners and be like, hey, we have this guy, Ahmad Malik in India who sings and writes in English and he wants to do a global single or album or whatever it is. What do you think of it? I thought that that's what the root was. And I went I went to quite a few Indian labels, played the music, but didn't see any headway.

[00:33:51]

They were not sure of how to have that conversation with their with their superiors and you and us. And then I realized, like. Um, I think maybe I just go to the land where it all happens rather than be here. I don't think that is going to happen from you. Eventually I went to L.A., I went to L.A. But there's a little backstory to that as well. I met a friend in in Bombay who was a writer songwriter.

[00:34:18]

Her name was Natanya, very dear friend of mine. Now she's collaborated on all my stuff up until now. And I met her at Cinemax and she happened to tell me that, hey, you know, I'm in town for a week. Do you want to catch up and write some songs? And she came over the next week and we rewrote a couple of songs and she told me that, dude, this is not stuff that needs to be hidden in their business to go global.

[00:34:47]

You know, when she heard me sing and write and stuff like that, and that's where I she told me this, you know, why don't you come for a week to L.A., just see how it goes, like a few songs with some of my writer friends and producer friends there and just see how the process is. I somehow feel like she came into my life probably as a blessing or something, as a catalyst to make something happen. And I believe in that.

[00:35:10]

I believe there are certain individuals that come and be part of your life that help you follow your dreams.

[00:35:16]

And I think she's one of those individuals in my life. And she told me, why don't you come to L.A. for a week and let's write together with my friends and whatever and see how it goes. It might not lead anywhere. Just come and do something. And I went there, wrote a couple of songs, came back six months, nothing. I was doing my Bollywood shows again, my concerts, my songs here and all.

[00:35:38]

One day I get a call, there's there's a there's a there's an Indian dude. His name is on it and he has a music label in in Sweden, in Stockholm. And he has quite a few friends working in Universal Sony abroad. And he happened to jump this demo music that I'd created for a week in L.A. And he passed it on to some of these executives in these big labels. And the one of them showed interest. And that individual was David Massey.

[00:36:13]

He's the head of Arista Records, which is a very legendary record label in the US and rests on the Sony Music. He was going to London for the Brit Awards and he told me that he why don't you come and meet me there? And he's the guy who launched Jonas Brothers. He's the guy who who, you know, signed Sean Mendez. So it's coming from there when when you hear when you hear someone of that stature listening to your music and saying like, hey, this is some amazing stuff, I would love to hear more about you and see where this goes.

[00:36:47]

You kind of get that. You kind of get that feels right. It feels right. Because, see, honestly, you might play your English music, do Indian friends and Indian people, and they might not know how to react or whatever. They listen to English music of the Western artists and they might not know how to react to it coming from you. But for them then when kind of when when they hear it and they and, you know, always there's this this notion that Indian singers don't get English singing right.

[00:37:15]

Kind of pronunciation Galatea, they come out as want to be. You know, that was something that I wanted to squash. I didn't want that imagery only for an Indian artist. I know there are so many Indian artists who sing English beautifully, but that notion is that quiet in them English might gautam up to them. I didn't want that to happen. But the amazing thing goes in India. And I was like, you know, I want to break that.

[00:37:40]

And if I do this right now, there'll be a lot of singers behind me who will want to take this journey. And inspired by my journey, they'll have confidence and taking that journey forward because they are squashing their dreams of singing English to sing Hindi now because people are telling them Kinnane, you don't sound good singing in English.

[00:37:58]

So I wanted to change things not only for myself, I didn't want to just g is my dreams. I wanted to change the way people thought in India as well. You know, people never give that much importance to Western pop or pop music. In India, it was only film music happening or that's completely in the music happening, which is not a big audience for that. I was like, why isn't the mainstream pop happening? Where is the pop culture that Indian pop stars that are Punjabi pop stars, but there's no one who is singing in Hindi or in English but is and is a pop star from India?

[00:38:33]

I don't see that happening. I was like, this is a gap that needs to be filled and that needs to be an army of Indians and goes out there in the world to do this. And this was my dream. And then I went to meet that that executive in London and we chatted for a bit. And I had a deal with with Sony Music Global. At the same time, I realized that, you know, a you know, a lot of these Indian labels didn't know how to go about it.

[00:38:57]

The same company, Sony Music and Universal and everyone. But when the whole global thing happened and when, you know, they realized that, wow, I'm I'm the label has signed on and like, this is this is a big deal. This is India's moment.

[00:39:14]

So sometimes it takes a little bit of a U-turn life. You know, they might not see the dream as you presented to them, but when they see the whole picture now, I have the most beautiful working relationship with the Sony Music and their team here in India. Which did they actually at that point? I mean, I played them my music initially. They didn't understand the vision of what was happening because it's never happened in India before. There is no one who has tried to break out globally here and there, isn't it?

[00:39:43]

Because there's no precedent. People are scared. Gadkari, what do we do? What is the route to take?

[00:39:48]

Because there's no there's no case study. There's no one who's done this before that we can learn from and kind of put that into action.

[00:39:56]

What we all like in that journey, like from India to the West, I think it was learning there was no cockups. Like, no, not doing it all. You know, I think it was a perfect timing. I think it was the absolute perfect timing to have made the switch over. And, you know, in the music, English music, all kinds of music was having its moment in India. Our listeners were exploding. Streaming platforms are coming into India in a big way.

[00:40:24]

Consumers, listeners were getting so many of their ideas on us to listen to people, listen to so many different artists. I thought this is the perfect time to kind of do something internationally because. Global giants like Spotify have now come to India and set up shop Amazon music happened, so if they are coming here, that means they have sensed a certain business opportunity here that is certain. There's a market here. There's something that can be made out of India.

[00:40:53]

There's something new. So I was like, OK, this is these shifts are happening. India is being looked at is one of the most important markets in the world, not only from probably other fields, but from an I know only my musical fields. I know from a musical and entertainment field.

[00:41:12]

It's becoming a hub, a hub. Just by the sheer numbers we have here, the kind of people who consume the number of people that consume music. So I was like, this is the perfect time for anyone to do the shift. And then this whole control happened. My first single and I got featured at Times Square on the Billboard Spotify billboard, and that was just unreal for my first single to have that kind of that kind of a look.

[00:41:41]

It was fabulous.

[00:41:42]

That's at Barclaycard's Dream Man, young man. It's like, you know, when that song released, when I was in control released and it was available on these platforms, I was jumping like a kid and I had two hundred and fifty plus songs released in different languages. And I never felt that excitement like I felt I felt like this is my first song ever. Yeah.

[00:42:06]

I felt that that energy, that excitement, that childish happiness. And I think it somehow was the realisation of my my childhood dreams, my teenage dreams that came true. And if you if you really manifested and you really want it to happen, it does happen totally to work.

[00:42:27]

And I think great to create a kind of unrelated to music.

[00:42:32]

Yeah. That this one burning question, what can the Indian professional space learn from the Western professional space?

[00:42:38]

Like what difference is it also? In some ways. No, I think.

[00:42:44]

I think they're very collaborative. We want very collaborative. We are learning to be, but inherently I think we always have this notion or that thought, gee, why is he going ahead of me?

[00:42:58]

Yeah, and roll up. Not Carlos Copnall. Canadarm up knackering. Never like what of me and him do something together on me or do something together and how we accept it, that'll do really, really well and that'll benefit both of us.

[00:43:14]

That kind of thinking on the Hill, which is now happening, obviously you're doing collabs with other creators. It's it's that same thing with statis driven society also. Well. That's been the theme of my life. It's crazy. I mean, it's for me, when I started working in the West with these producers and writers and I had a lot of unlearning to do. And, you know, there was these years of Indian learning that I had like what?

[00:43:38]

Like a new dog like.

[00:43:42]

Like being probably being in charge of everything, you know, like maybe on will be good only because of that it's more like, OK, we're going to do this. Let's get this line is coming from this dude that wasn't doing the Gadabout or whatever. Everyone's putting their ideas in your head like composers composing lyric, writers writing his lyrics. I'm going to be my singing and that's it. Everyone slotted that. It is like whoever comes up with the best idea, we want that even if a guy who's, like, just scribbling on on his notepad and comes up with one word, which becomes the hook of the song, that's a genius idea coming from someone.

[00:44:24]

And everyone welcomes different ideas from different individuals that in that one room, I think it's a great synergy. Yeah.

[00:44:31]

Again, it's like for the overall good they focus on and probably not exactly they they focus on getting the song in the best possible manner.

[00:44:40]

Beer, whoever gives the idea, it doesn't need to be like, oh man, Higa gonna have done it.

[00:44:46]

Do you think, like too many egos are massaged in the creative industry and that's why the end product kind of declared? Because that's what I feel in that space for sure.

[00:44:53]

Yeah, there's just too much ego in the Indian in the Indian space Indian industry. Everyone wants, like things for themselves, be like, OK, I want this successful me to not go to them. It's not about give or what if we get shared success. That's never the scenario. That's not what the thought process. Everyone's like me, me, me. Why is that guy going ahead? What is he doing so always in that lens and never has it been about collaboration.

[00:45:20]

Never has it been about like, hey, why don't we all create something amazing, we'll get that dude. Which is also the other aspect of this conversation.

[00:45:27]

I want to bring in your whole luck factor. Destiny, this shit that's larger than the human experience.

[00:45:34]

Yeah, I feel that once you have that energy of being collaborative, stuff starts working on mind when you actually have an engine of giving in the engine of algebra, all of us will like go make sure it works out.

[00:45:44]

It grows. But this is something you only experience after you actually switch on mindset.

[00:45:49]

Also, a lot of people we have this fake notion that I got.

[00:45:57]

I'm good at getting it on that Jamelia.

[00:46:01]

It's never like or if you force yourself to do something that you don't want to do, you will get good. That's never the case. You have to actually be naturally wanting to give something away, wanting to be collaborative. If that energy, you know, Mrs. Universe is very smart and recognizes what's true energy, what's fake energy. If you're trying to do good, trying to do good and not actually do good when you want and you mean to do good, you can be easily differentiated.

[00:46:28]

You won't you won't be like, oh, I have to do this, so I'll get good from it.

[00:46:31]

And you're one of the few guys I've met in my life, in our industry who talks openly about like the universe and numerology and things I love.

[00:46:40]

I'm a big believer in cosmic energies. I'm a big believer that anything you do has that is a cosmic conspiracy happening to this is this is magical.

[00:46:53]

Whatever is happening right now, me and you sharing thoughts, me and you speaking, you know, are about our journeys, about our thoughts. I think it's beautiful. And we take this for granted. We take these small little moments for granted. I think, you know, as the universe is present in all these smaller moments and for me, I've always looked out for these signs from the universe being in the form of numbers. I'm a big believer.

[00:47:22]

But covid Facebook, I was I needed a long list, but 111 Zerega. I don't know what it's talking about.

[00:47:32]

The 111 and the eleven eleven is going to take care of it. Yeah, for sure. This one was meant to happen.

[00:47:38]

So I'm a big believer in those, even though like I'm not scientifically in on that whole.

[00:47:44]

Explain what 111 eleven eleven is to the listener. Like I know what you're talking about but there needs to be a little backstory.

[00:47:51]

So I mean each number represents something different. I don't know what are the back of my head. I always search what does this number mean when I see it.

[00:47:59]

But basic the basic of I think the premise around this whole number thing, eleven living on one level is that the universe is trying to grab your attention to something that's happening in your life and telling you that probably this is something good or this is something bad. You need to change this all. You need to realign or you need to you need to be ready because there's abundance coming to you, all those amazing things lying ahead for you. There's a big change for you.

[00:48:31]

So I think these symbols, these are these numbers.

[00:48:35]

I just want to give one perspective. This is basically like when you look at the clock and it's always 111 or 11, not even not only the clock.

[00:48:42]

Sometimes I'm I'm randomly just driving and I see the card in front of me and it's three, three, three or it's two, two, two or whatever.

[00:48:53]

And I'm like, why are these signs coming to me? And it's not a one off. It'll be like that whole week you'll see a two to two or three, three three. It could be random.

[00:49:00]

I could see all of them in one week. And I try to I try my best to decipher what pattern is happening and whatever. But that's that's me. I'm crazy.

[00:49:11]

But the basic essence of it is that the universe is trying to tell you something. It's trying to bring your attention to something happening in your life. It's trying to realign something in your life or just trying to keep you prepared for what's going to happen.

[00:49:24]

So that's that's what I feed off of that that energy I don't believe in. And a friend of mine kind of like brought my attention to it. And after I started paying attention to it for the first few times, then it became I started noticing patterns.

[00:49:44]

Yeah.

[00:49:45]

It just happened to me. It's not like, oh, I was looking out. And then we'll have to wait for Levin. It's not that.

[00:49:51]

It's just randomly I just look at my phone and Levin, Levin or 222 or whatever.

[00:49:55]

Like I talk to a lot of people about these conversations with questions instead of just Googling that. What does this mean? Like, that's that's been my place where I get answers.

[00:50:04]

So I'll give you one perspective on like, oh, something I found. So the perspective is basically from the world of astrology. I think I've had this conversation with you, but it's OK. I will do it once again for the podcast.

[00:50:15]

Let's do it.

[00:50:16]

So when people think of astrology, when you say the word astrology, you automatically think of the Gregorian calendar and Gemini, Eighties, Vogel, whatever, like, OK, but astrology as a concept is really, really, really, really, really old in the history of the world.

[00:50:31]

And early on, they used to be some civilizations which were established somewhat like tribes in some countries, and there was like properly established citizens in those established parts of Africa to establish Egypt was established, South America was established, and I think some part of Southeast Asia was established.

[00:50:49]

And all these places this is like fifty thousand B.C., OK, before even like a modern like the writings that we have now, which we have deciphered, I think it's only up to the industrial civilization.

[00:51:00]

And that's why we think that of people, but actually all those civilizations considered themselves as modern and they thought there was some prehistoric, oh, astrology that Gonzales comes from, that prehistoric thinking, OK? And all of them have the same logic.

[00:51:14]

Egyptian astrology, solid American astrology logic. The logic is like what we call currently an alternate, like, as you know, have you seen those charts, the astrology charts? So are you familiar with, like, how it works?

[00:51:27]

Like, I don't know. OK, so we'll do that on the podcast.

[00:51:31]

I suppose you're born in this room. They'll map out the sky in a certain way, like they'll they'll figure out, OK, if they take a certain image of the of how this how the the sky looks at the time you were born.

[00:51:46]

Yeah. And that ship somehow denotes your astrological sign.

[00:51:50]

And so basically they'll take a map of the sky and the map of the sky is divided into 12 houses.

[00:51:57]

And each of those houses represent one aspect of you as a person or when you want.

[00:52:03]

No one will be your personality. One will be your model eventually of either one would be something or to manage your career or your finances, your debt, your friendships and partnerships. OK, so they basically represent different aspects of you. Now that is a map of the sky and our solar system, our celestial bodies. So the nine planets plus the moon in the sun. Yeah. The other celestial bodies that have the maximum impact on the earth.

[00:52:27]

Now, any object like this below you, the light, the like, all of it has its natural frequency, but you can also see it like it's got its own body and always giving all the frequency. The beagle and object is the more powerful, the frequency it gives out.

[00:52:44]

So a planet, a moon, the sun is so massive that is giving out a very powerful electromagnetic energy, as well as more subtle energies, which has yet to be discovered by science. Oh, and that's the basic logic of astrology when they say that, OK, how do planets actually affect your life, your future as your life progresses?

[00:53:05]

The position of those planets changes in your horoscope.

[00:53:08]

But you're born with a certain position of all those planets at that point, which predetermines, OK, this is his likely personality.

[00:53:16]

This is likely money and understood, but it can all change so that all of your guesses. If you practice your wife, you're a good person. If you're spiritual, if you meditate, all this becomes null and void eventually. Like and then it's just about your hard work and your dedication. OK, and if you if you keep meditating, it becomes clear.

[00:53:32]

So all those civilizations spoke about astrology as this concept, unfortunately or fortunately, of all the civilizations in was the only one that kind of retained its old or eating's. OK, so when you even before European imperialism happened, before the British came and took over and there was a lot of Europeans who visited India because of the Silk Road and they understood that all these guys have this astrology system, which they really believe in and which they thought was accurate.

[00:53:58]

Yeah, but they didn't exactly understand what it was. And they carried it back to Europe and developed modern astrology.

[00:54:05]

What we know, which is that they'll divide all people into how many signs are there. But that's not very accurate.

[00:54:12]

It's a very general it's not not accurate. It's like a very all of.

[00:54:17]

Yeah, it's an overview, but it's not like like how sun moon rising and all that stuff. Yeah.

[00:54:22]

Yeah, exactly.

[00:54:25]

So it's like if you ask me if I'm wrong on June 1st and June 2nd, they don't think I admonitory are roughly the same people. Yeah.

[00:54:32]

But even that June 1st to 2nd, there's been a lot of value in a lot of shifts in the cosmic world. But any of these things are beyond science, man. And it's all those of those things where you only. But I love all this.

[00:54:43]

Yeah, I'm a big geek when it comes to this kind of stuff because I mean, dude, I think you've had some experiences in your life and it's all the experiences that finally determine what you think.

[00:54:53]

But I think only of people who make themselves more open, open to accepting things from the universe and are the only ones who are given this vision, I believe. I agree. I agree. I believe, you know, there a lot of people are closed to this chapter of whatever existence.

[00:55:12]

Yeah.

[00:55:12]

That they don't believe that there's a there's a cosmic bubble or there's some kind of energy that some are above human energy that is happening, that is working its magic in the world today or do whatever whatever is happening is because of this.

[00:55:30]

I mean, it's not I believe that whatever you do, you do. But there is always this certain power that's around you that is I wouldn't want to say control. It is it is kind of letting things function the way they're doing. It's kind of veering things in the direction that it goes in. So there is this that is this entity. I don't know what it is. Even I can see what it is. I only don't know.

[00:55:57]

But as long as you keep yourself open to it and that energy exposes itself to you and you receive more and more knowledge about it, I honestly, if someone gains more knowledge of what they won't even be able to explain, I cannot explain what knowledge I have learned from the universe because it's more deep. Yeah, it's not something like all this. It's not clear.

[00:56:19]

Yeah, it's very what the love bug spit it out under the under the under the breteau like it said probably it's ambiguous esoterica. Yeah.

[00:56:31]

I don't, I'm very bad at my English. I don't get these last words. That's, that's the word for word. Okay. So basically it's esoterica.

[00:56:41]

It's not, it's not very, it's not expressed as it is.

[00:56:47]

It's, it's, it's something that you can only feel and understand and it's inside your system. So I think I even I wouldn't be able to share what I've learned from the universe for myself. But I think it's a very powerful, very powerful energy.

[00:57:00]

If people know are open to harnessing it and open to accepting the guys who are deep into like astrology believe that the 111 to twenty to thirty three the for this Fausto's indicate though, your second no indication at all. For example, your second house is the two. Yeah. The lady in your life. It could be a mall.

[00:57:19]

My wife understood she needs your attention or you know you are doing something which which is wrong.

[00:57:25]

Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Similarly then money is like one of them. I think creativity is for something like well you need to ok, you need I think creativity three three. You need to go and like give your creative work process and 111 or. 7-Eleven is usually stability. It's like you are doing you're on the bottom, you're on your own, the correct, but you are doing exactly what you meant to do in life.

[00:57:47]

Which also brings me to our next question, which is that dude in your whole career, Johnny, can you give us, like, instances where shit has just happened the way I like? OK, dude, this wasn't me. It wasn't my Manop, because people assume that hard work directly resulted in the success.

[00:58:05]

But there's actually a lot of other shit that happens when it comes to success, which you only realize three, four years after experiencing success.

[00:58:12]

Yeah, even in your Felicio, you still think it's just by chance, but just by the Baydon just happened way too much. Yeah, it's happened with me.

[00:58:19]

A lot of instances. I'll give you one instance very early on the Filmfare towards it. As you know, it's one of the most prestigious awards in our country. And once you have a sense of what that means, you've arrived. My family, at least my family has, like my dad, never one of them or even been nominated, not even invited to the ceremony. So for me and I'm honored to be invited to be nominated was a very big deal.

[00:58:46]

So I wasn't nominated.

[00:58:47]

I had I had sung, you know, the song Man who wrote it. So that song I'd sung and I thought it would be nominated, but it wasn't nominated. So I was not nominated in the best playback singer category. And I just went there to cheer Mal because he was he was nominated for the for that rEU album. And with Sooraj Dubai. I was there and I was like, pretty sure Amalia's going on today and going to win the award.

[00:59:09]

And I was going to root for him and I was like forceful and let's address all that blood and all that. So I'm all the world happens, he wins, it comes back. We all are super emotional. Then there is this this award that gets announced which has no nominees. They just announce the winner.

[00:59:28]

And I was just getting ready to just bounce because we're like we're done with Minds award and like all of us just need to go back home and party. And that gets announced. Armaan Milligan's already won one award for new dazing music talent and you know, for me who wrote it and I was like, wait, what just happened?

[00:59:50]

I did not expect this and I was not in the mind frame to get it. And sometimes when you're not in that in that zone and when life surprises you, when you get things that you don't even expect and at the age of be winning that award, I was the youngest male playback singer to win the film award. And and that even happened without me getting nominated for it. It just was a surprise award which got announced.

[01:00:15]

I think these are the moments that make me believe, like I think that someone looking out, someone who is making things happen and making you believe that, you know, here this is all, you know, possible, possible.

[01:00:28]

This is possible for you. That's some magical shit that happens to you sometimes.

[01:00:33]

What's the again, this is like one of those criticised words on the Internet just because there isn't a good enough word for it.

[01:00:40]

But speaking about spirituality, I want to know what's the definition of what you call spirituality?

[01:00:45]

Because I don't I also want to know I'm also wanting to understand there's two parts, like one part of the body you just described in this whole conversation, which is the professional path. Correct. And there is a second. But that's your other purpose in life.

[01:00:59]

Like what have you come or not to do? Yeah. OK, so what's Armaan on this true. Well this is what is that soul which is now occupying the body mind. Why is that. Come back. OK, so that's the basis of it.

[01:01:12]

Spirituality means that this is an old soul that's come into our mind, something like it's a parallel part to the one you're already existing on. So when you have that 111, 111, 22 that you see around, OK, that's actually the other body getting activated.

[01:01:27]

There's that other body inside you.

[01:01:30]

So, OK, it's against the world of spirituality. It's like really broad. But the basic definition of it is like focus on your karma can be a good person, work really hard, like with whatever we're going, stay honest and the process of meditation and self discovery, like we went to New Zealand to, like, discover yourself.

[01:01:48]

Yeah, that can happen when a person does like a lot of deep meditation daily also because that's effectively what you're doing. What is meditation? You're pulling your focus away from the real world just into your breath or just into that one thing you'll think. Yeah, correct. You're completely. But the goal is to forget your identity, forget that you're a single. Forget that element and just come back to that one. Make yourself you basically. Yeah, exactly.

[01:02:12]

This is already gone. It was this philosopher musical entrepreneur, OK?

[01:02:16]

He says that meditation is like intermittent fasting for your brain because intermittent fasting bodies, you stop your body, it heals same logic with meditation when you're that quiet and that focused brain heals. Wow. So again, all this like forward just spirituality.

[01:02:30]

But it's a broad definition. Now, I'll ask you do what's your like outlook on it?

[01:02:35]

Um. So I've always been the kind of person that I feel that, you know, apart from my singing and apart from my musical career, I've come here to do good. And I feel like that's one colleague of mine. I feel like I've come on this planet. One side music, obviously, but also to share what I have learned or what I know I feel at the age of 25, I know a lot. I mean, not bragging about it.

[01:03:05]

Nobody ever 15 year career went on. Yeah. So but at the age of 25, I have learned a lot.

[01:03:10]

I know a lot, which I feel I can share with younger musicians who are now beginning, beginning and probably disillusioned about what they want to do or how they want to go about it or bring a certain structure to them and say that this is this. If you do this, this will happen. And I've done it and I know it will happen. So I feel like I have that side to me.

[01:03:30]

I got ask you, I don't know if that is spirituality. It is. It is. It is. OK, which is I asked you to define it because I don't know what it is, but I definitely do strongly feel that that is the side of me that wants to really help people and guide people.

[01:03:43]

And, um, I am I, I go by that hashtag, Bob. I am going to write any quotes and inspire people and stuff like that. So I go I'll have my own brand of Patanjali and stuff that I have to ask you a hard question.

[01:04:00]

Yeah. About just like modern day musical talent. Yeah. Very simple question. How do you guys own money? Like what is the actual process of money going from your audience's pockets, your labels bogard to your pocket. Like what are the different ways in which your own money.

[01:04:16]

So singers in India own money through live shows, live concerts.

[01:04:22]

They mean money comes from that that mean money. OK, my main income comes from live shows. We would love if we would earn money from the sales of songs, but we don't. That happens in the West. It happens in the West. We don't deal because there's no structure yet. Now it just come it's finally coming to shape like all are, you know, right. Societies now that are never there. They were there for a long time, but they were corrupt for quite some time.

[01:04:56]

And now they're cleaned up and they're now giving royalties, giving, you know, revenues to the creators of the songs.

[01:05:06]

But it's not in the ideal way that it should be, even in the West. There are loopholes actually. There are certain loopholes even in their system where certain traders don't get compensated enough for their work. You're too Hainey. India is like very, very, very behind when it comes to being fair to creators. But in 10 years, it'll be different. It will be different. It will definitely be different. And I can see the change happening right now in front of me.

[01:05:34]

A lot of creators are owning their own songs, owning their own masters. So when the song releases or when it's streamed on any of these sites, that money, having shared money with the distributing partners, may give an example of hundred rupees is made from one stream. This is not the real figure. I'm just hypothetically saying they give one stream of a song, bring 100 rupees. This message will be percentages you have to distribute to the guy who has helped you distribute that song to those different stores or their streaming platforms.

[01:06:08]

He'll take his percentages and the percentages. The streaming side will take its own percentages and then probably go down and you will get forty rupees out of hundred.

[01:06:18]

That forty usually comes to the label unless you own your own song and usually goes to the label. But it depends on how you structure your your business. We've all been label artists for me until now. I don't think all the songs that I have sung, I could have owned anything because I'm not created the songs and I'm not I'm not a composer on those songs and neither am I a writer on those songs. I'm just a singer and a vocalist and a performer.

[01:06:47]

But on my English songs, I am a contributor towards this, like I told you. Right. I'm part of the song making process, so I'm part of the song creation. So I am a writer and vapid writer means person who writes the song as in the lyrics and the person who makes the tune for. So both of them are called writers. Yampa.

[01:07:07]

There's a distinction. That person who makes the tune is the composer, the person who writes the words, the lyricist, that it's like anyone in the room who gives a good line as a writer. So that's that's how it is. And in Bollywood, I've just sung.

[01:07:23]

So I'm just a singer, so I'm not entitled to those royalties that I create. I'm not the creator of the song, but there are all these that as a singer you get for having performed the song, which are called Performance Royalties. Which of you societies outside of India that give even in even in India, there are no royalty societies that have come up now. So the scene is changing. It's becoming better for creators, for artists and who want to earn money from their songs.

[01:07:53]

So primarily right now, we only need from live shows, obviously for the next one and a half year. I don't see any live shows happening given to the scenario right now. So the popular belief is that as singers, we get paid to sing a song and. And that's not true. Did you know that or no, I'm assuming it's like you saying it's all you get, like money and then we don't get involved. I mean, I've sung songs in the South Indian industries and in other industries outside of Bollywood, but I don't think anything has gotten paid to sing a song without eating with me, with whoever.

[01:08:35]

As far as I'm aware, I don't think we get paid to sing a song. It's understood that if the song goes in your voice and the song becomes famous, you learn from the shows while you understand.

[01:08:48]

But it wasn't the case earlier, right? I don't think so. It was. And it was. So you know how I would like to change the industry. It would be like, OK, if I've come into the studio, it's a service rendered and I need my remuneration for my service rendered. And that's how I look at it.

[01:09:03]

I have a very practical way of looking at it. But here I think that is not very short of who they want.

[01:09:11]

So they test different things, that's different singers, obviously, which is OK, obviously, we want to know who's who would fit the song best, but I've come that two hours of my time have gone there. So that is my time gone, my effort gone. So I think I should be compensated for that which any single wants to be compensated. But obviously that's not the norm. And who decides these rules?

[01:09:35]

It's I view you won't even like if you ask. It came to a point where sometimes if you ask for money, it becomes like, do what attitude, I guess.

[01:09:46]

And good. While it's like a little guy is a belly, basically about him, about God. And he's talking about money just before even like singing the song. And he's he's not even thankful that we have called him to sing the song.

[01:09:59]

But who calls. I run like is it a composer or is it a producer or is it. So sometimes it is sometimes just producers, mostly it's composers. And usually the money doesn't come out of the composers budget or whatever. I think it comes from the production house and they just don't have the motivation for singers. But, you know, I'm slowly wanting to change that and I hope it changes. But you can't really change it. You can't really it's like an unspeakable thing.

[01:10:31]

You can go into the studio and say like, hey, listen, there's my bill for the you know, for what I did and recognizing the voice that's not there, that's that's not even part of the conversation.

[01:10:44]

You have to just sing the song and just pray that the song comes out in your voice so that when you when that song becomes, as you do shows and then you earn money. That's how it is. That's how crazy it is.

[01:10:54]

Man. Malik, thank you for being on the road with your brother Jonesboro.

[01:10:58]

I was a nice covid fist bump. Guys, guys going to be looking all Vermont down below. Make sure you go check it out. And Naaman, any last short message for the world.

[01:11:09]

Just chill man. Just chill out.

[01:11:12]

All of us in the same boat, all of us are going through the same shit. There's no point stressing. Just take your gamble, put on Netflix or Amazon Prime, whatever works for you and just chill out, have your favorite food, burger, fries, whatever and just chill. Let's relax. Let's get over 20/20. I'll get because I got beautiful. Thank you, brother. Cheers.