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While Canada was known for founding startups like Credit and Free judged, the man really should be known for his real form of wealth. I honestly believe wealth is both money as well as the knowledge you contained within your mind.


And that's what this episode was, an explosion of knowledge from a very fugit perspective, from a very in their perspective, from a very present perspective, from the perspective of what can we change up, what are the questions we need to be asking other Indians in order to get to the next stage of growth?


This one's going to stimulate you. You might want to hear this multiple times and you might want to hear this while noting down certain points, especially for someone who's driven by the idea of growing startups on the run show today, if this episode gets too long for you. Please keep in mind we've started that in video clips on YouTube, which is a channel that just contains the highlights of this episode. Enjoy Ourselves with one of India's smartest men, asked some of India's deepest questions on The Tonight Show.


Mr. Kuniyoshi, welcome to the runway show. Thank you so much for having me. How have you gained the reputation of being one of the smartest people in general, but also one of the smartest people in the startup space?


I don't know, man, I don't think I'm the smartest person that I probably vocalize my thoughts, which sometimes appear smart, sometimes they just go above my head and people and that because I'm pretty smart.


So I guess I'm just curious. I would not say I'm smart.


I would happily take the title of being the most curious person.


I don't know if I'm the smartest.


How have you built out start ups which have been so successful, like what has been, you know, the work that's gone behind it and why behind it? I mean, right from the time you were in college, what has the preparatory period involved? I guess so. I became financially independent when I was 16 and not a choice. The family went to financial crisis, so had no choice but to go out of my way to it. So I've done everything from selling pirated CDs to selling many to all sorts of things that I've done to kind of income.


I used to run a small cybercafé. I used to do to chernof computers. I've done all sorts of things that made money and I had no choice but to do that.


Good news is that it taught me how to make money very early on in life, and I think that is where I think our education misses completely. We get to learn to sell something solid and also because we have a lack of native culture, we are terrible excelling in gender. Right. So that makes us a country of terrible salesmen because 98 percent of the country's arranged marriages, which makes us terrible.


And I think I learned that doing that extra matter so much in a country where people are just not trying to push for it, like I appreciated the effort that it took to get the perfect setting for this podcast. And I like people who do that because the extra five percent, that makes all the difference. And not just like I tell my little guy, you send me a microphone, you get all the settings done to me. All the value that I have seen people create is by the shit that that they have in their work.


And I think that's been my thing, that I do not like to work with people who do not do this to the last level.


I like to hang around with people. I think businesses just happen to be happening around same time. But if I have to look at my journey, I've done all sorts of things. I've probably done, I don't know, 15, 20 different types of businesses. I'm known for one or two. But the thing is, it's been a constant journey of meditation. And if I have to point out one thing that has helped me kind of create some successful businesses is to understand the concept of human motivation.


What do people want and pay money for it. Right. And I think most of businesses miss exactly these two points and the imagine problems and therefore start solving it and imagine the severity of problems that people who pay for money for that problem. And I think that is the core to insight through, which I have kind of been very fortunate to constantly build businesses and I don't know anything else to do in life. So I keep building businesses. Hmm, I want to know why you think you don't know anything else in life, because your Twitter says otherwise, but is it would you would you reframe that sentence as you get your biggest kick out of business because life's high out of business?


I think that's a fair point. I think my core need is to be curious and to know things. But do I really know it can only be tested by family business? Right. So let's say business is the application of knowledge, because knowledge for the sake of knowledge is not as valuable because you have not tested it. Right. And I think it has too many guardians otherwise. So the application of gun is everything. I believe that otherwise knowledge is freely available on YouTube as much as you want.


But most people are so addicted to just listening to gain and motivation stuff and doing things in life. And I think that to me is the biggest problem of India. I would say summarising it that way. Too much knowledge, way too much gone. Very few people try to apply and improve that.


Hmm, I completely agree. While I do feel that's changing because right before this part got started, I gave you the gun that I give most entrepreneurs in their 30s, which is that a 27 year old and a guy even in his late 30s are way more similar in India compared to that 27 year old and the 22 year olds of this country because of the impact of the Internet.




I mean, I want I want I want to ask you a very broad question. Feel free to answer it in whatever way you wish to answer. What is Indian 2016 going to look like?


Whole and Sahadevan. I literally have an extraordinarily bright future, a very dark one. The reason it could be dark is that what capitalism has done in the world has become like a one big superconductor, right. All of us are connected to each other. And the way to understand this is very simple. A joke becomes popular instantly. Right. Like everybody knows about the joke, saying the next day also is not good because everybody in the world is super hyper connected and everything is spreading very, very fast.


And because of that, then innovations come. This spread very, very fast as well. Right. And sometimes they take away jobs. Right. And then we are not prepared for that change quickly. The skills that we have will be irrelevant very quickly.


India is unique because of edible education system, not having the curiosity mindset to learn more things right.


And fundamentally, the world will therefore take over the jobs and automate them. But the job losses will happen in India because the world is connected. Right. So an American becoming more efficient is taking over a job in India and we don't even understand this connection right now.




For example, let's say because of course, all centers in the US are not working and we somehow all figured out outsourced to homes. But now they realize that all the homes are outsourcing, whether they give it to India. But now they should automate this stuff because people are really either on their own and AP or airline monitoring all that stuff. Everybody has learned how to become excited for millions of jobs are gone or they're not going in the US. They're gone in India.


Right. So I think the word useless jobs are getting accumulated in poor countries. And in 2016, unless we shut our borders and make it look like kind of think of a North Korea kind of an imagination that we are only creating and we are only using kind of a thing, it's going to be very, very hard. Now, the positive side of this is that we have a very, very young nation. Probably the youngest in all the nations, and if people stick around, they really don't need to depend on the education system to become smart and learn skills and just that basic skills taught in other people's minds.


I think we will learn how to track things. I think creating an entrepreneurial mindset. The country's biggest cause is that we are all job seekers.


Right. If you look at Google Trends and look at the top 10 keyword searches every day out of the top two out of a government exams. Right. And that is the level that I'm worried about, that if everybody is just hoping for that one government job, the problem is the government does not need so many people. And please understand, the largest employer of the world is inefficiency. And when the woman efficiency, those jobs are gone, right?


And the problem is the skill sets that we've hired that are so many jobs in India which are not required, like the lift ban, like our 18 watchmen, like there are probably, I don't know, millions of people guarding Indians. But what if people stop using, gosh, what happens then? Right. So I think we are just not ready on education systems. And not just there are dependency on agriculture that's way too high. And one more scary factor is nobody pays attention to the number of women working in labor force is dropping every year.


OK. Less than 10 percent of urban Indian women work. And how financial independence this is lower than Pakistan. Oh, wow, this is lower than Bangladesh, Bangladesh at 68 percent, we are at eight percent. China is at 90 percent. Right. And we just don't notice it because you don't notice it, because you don't pay attention to it. But look at the airport. How many queues for women and how many men?


How many compartments in Metro women versus men? The new standard rush hour, how many women do you see and how many men see, 94 percent or 92 percent of all credit cards are owned by men. Ninety five percent of all personal loans are taken by men. We are not fundamentally understood that we are a fairly patriarchal and aggressive nation because we don't look at the. And the scary part is every year the female participation of labor is dropping, not increasing.




What do you think will be the catalyst to change all this? There has to be a solution and this is where, you know, maybe the entrepreneurial side of people like yourself has to kick in.


It's a scary thing because India is trying to play the game of capitalism. But the bladers of socialism. Hmm. Oh, shit. OK, hold up. Could you explain capitalism and socialism really easily for the listener?


Like in very basic terms, capitalism is very simple. You use capital to produce more goods, employ more people. The whole society focuses on wealth. Innovation is rewarded disproportionately to one inventor and one manufacturer and one businessman, one initialised if they do good stuff and therefore the overall wealth of society increases. Right. But socialism, unfortunately, it just failed everywhere in the world. And India has still not adapted to this. Is that where everything is going by the state?


It's shared equally. So if like if a pattern is made in India, you don't get the benefit of it. It is assumed to be a public good. Right. And it's a complex topic. But the thing is, 99 percent of Indians have no clue what is capitalism or socialism, for example. A lot of people think MRP is a good idea how to protect them out of your diet. And fundamentally, that is against capitalism, because why somebody like you and me, who are staying in affluent neighborhoods, being hungry for Diet Coke and somebody who is not doing enough for liberals in particular because we should be paying for that because our rules are expensive in our area, store is more expensive.


The cost is more expensive, but it might of being the most this and it's a very socialistic approach saying that somebody buys. And this fundamental concept is not understood by an individual people who they might be good for you, everybody say, yeah, it's great, but this is why we have no clue about capitalism and it is going to take a complete overhaul of our education system or our government's thinking to really improve that, because the government somehow operates also with a socialist mindset, because the country has to this and therefore, like there are lots of subsidies and all of that stuff which does not create wealth.


And now the problem is most of our taxes are coming from capitalism, like the 30, 40 million people who are doing the jobs are paying taxes. A lot of businesses who are on capitalistic market are paying taxes. But the thing is that we have still the mindset they are pursuing a job and that government will object, A.J., that's the mindset you're operating at, right, who you heard about. And than 100 jobs created, like 100 applications like that kind of mindset that we are operating with.


And the country is fundamentally status seeking more than welcome and therefore the inevitable story of a very popular story. What about the story there? There was a story that says that one guy goes to a crab store and then a lot of these containers where jobs are stored and in one condition is kept open and the guy is, quote unquote, alcoholic. Why is this container open to a new class? What do you mean by that? Well, don't worry.


As soon as one that starts to climb up three guys and put him down.


Right, and this is the fundamental problem of difference between value driven society and status driven societies, right. Astana's driven societies fundamentally dislike anybody going up and left a very driven society that they haven't done enough.




And they are way more collaborative. And I think we both understand this because we've never seen a collaborative society. I'll give you one other factor that the idea that we don't understand. India is not one country. India is 25 countries, most of it on one country. And therefore, we have a need for neutral platforms. Let's take example of neutral platforms are neutral. Sport is cricket, not from India, though they're not in the mood. To speak to each other is to a neutral language, which is English.


Our neutral beverage is tea and coffee, not from India when we have a party at office, neutral football ordered a pizza not from India, Summerside not from India, is not from India. In fact, I recently discovered that even India is not from India.


Or really is it from Nepal?


It's from the East China, Nepal gastroscopy. But the point is, we do not realize that the need for this country to come to neutral platforms, for example, is magically arranged marriages. And we also ban same language relationships, let's say a Gujarat economic model, which Punjab economic model Punjabi. Fundamentally, all the groups that are born after that will be English. Naturally, because a neutral platform that connects Gadhafi to somebody Bengali, English, right, and I think we don't realize and accept these things and we are confused between some fighting elections on the old topics are stuck on some old principles.


And the reason we are like that is that nobody's interested in future. Everybody is happily celebrating past the fact that we are still thinking about, let's say, building statues of some old people or creating some things which take a lot of money to build some of the stuff about past glory.


I think every time I have seen nations super obsessed about the past are usually delusional about their future.


Yeah, 100 percent, you know, a lot of the things you're seeing actually echoes this book I'm reading, but I'm sure you've already read. It's called 21 Lessons from the Twenty First Century by World War II, Daddy. And I know for a fact that you are a very avid reader. And considering everything that you said, I have a couple of points to. I think it is pointing at this question.


So I was recently hanging out with this Colombian girl, even though she was the cinematographer, the shoot I was at and she's been in India for six months, so she's actually been stuck in India because of covid are still. What have you noticed about India that separates it as a society? Like what's different about the people? She's like there's a lot of beautiful things, like spiritual sensibilities and empathy and, you know, a sense of warmth and friendliness.


But she's like, there's way too many internal barriers. People are having you so. So what do you mean, like insecurity?


She's like, no, not insecurity. She's like everyone has an ego about themselves on this. Enzo of ego is extremely strong. And that again, echoes your status driven point that you made where everyone's fighting for, I don't know, I should be respected. What I should be respected. In fact, I remember early on when I co-founded one of my failed startups with someone that guy had told me specifically that do the one thing I looked for in my own career always is respect.


I don't want money. I do anything. I want respect. And I told them, OK, but the thing is, I was are you will do well by that point. And I was automatically getting the ball everywhere we went. I was getting the attention and that's why he kind of drifted even as a co-founder. And then I thought about it over the years. I was like, no, no, it wasn't respect. It was ego massage.


Like because, I mean, you know, that's that's that's what masks itself as someone and, you know, these kind of concepts which are very deeply ingrained in our culture.


And the second thing I want to kind of talk about is now in that book, they spoke about how throughout the last 200 years there's been capitalism and socialism and communism and all these different governance systems where every country has sort of a system is the best assessment of the best.


And we've gradually seen all of them fail in one way or another. They thought that capitalism was the answer. They thought that America and Europe's model was the answer. And now suddenly Brexit is happening. America's elected Donald Trump, things are collapsing every so there's no chance anymore. And you are daddy's intuition is that the whole world is going to move back to what it was in ancient times in terms of China is going to go back to its own ancient version of itself, where they had one government that ruled everything that thinks that we are the shit not just in China, but all over the world.


Russia thinks that there's going to be one czar, which is Putin in there might become a collection of kingdoms just like it was. That's and he's actually written about this in the book industry.


And I could read the book. Yeah, but really, I've read the previous book because I have not read the second one. I've never got a chance to look at it.


But I think what is interesting, what he is saying, and it's actually to see society adopted, religion, capitalism or anything else to collaborate at large scale. But when you collaborate large scale automatically some people become more successful. And unless we accept the wealth divide, we will say that he is going to come back. So to have mentality brings it down. We will not care about that. We are all richer than before because wealth is not the result.


Right. But the fundamental thing is that this is, you know, some people don't like the idea. Remember one person or one very senior banker. It will make good on his countrymen. No comparable not everyone. But there are certain currencies in the world that. Right. So and therefore, you know, just one thing about all the people who are normally here, they'll always do this on Capitol Hill as a budget measure. Right. The reason is that because flashing wealth in this country is considered to be bad.


Like when I sold my company, the first advice I got is that Barack Obama, Glena, they've got to do this thing because people will hate your success and will work very hard to pull it off. And the thing is, why are you like that? What if it all became reality? What if all of us in Congress, because that's how many countries income per capita has gone from 2000 to 3000 dollars.


But we are fundamentally not accepting that part of the nation mindset. Not to your point of view, is probably good news, but it is very simple. Let's take a small example. If you go back in 500 years ago, the person who entertained used to be poorer than the person who got entertained, but slowly as they found distribution.


Let's take a look. And all four hundred people would watch something. Then suddenly the person who entertained became richer than the person who's being entertained. Hmm. Then they got cinema and they became really rich. Now they are on Internet and they become even more richer because the distribution is significantly higher. But there's an interesting angle to this. What is happening with education? You tell me not everybody is running on his own. Every student is learning on his own.


Why shouldn't this be taught by the best teacher of India to everybody in this country? And this is going to be a one hard question to answer, because if you do that, yes, everybody would like physics because it is extraordinarily dangerous time to start teaching physics now.


But what about all the other millions of teachers who have been teaching physics maybe slightly poorly or or extremely poorly? Right. And and suddenly this creates wealth in that region and teachers will never have any profession. But if you notice one thing, all the YouTube teachers are really good. They're actually entertainers. They make physics really interesting. But I can tell you do not make things interesting for us, because they were teacher, they had power, they had respect.


The modern world, if you like, and the point is that this is going to create a very, very different society and certainly even said celebrate, what would you do that would continue again? Well, the problem is, can you stop this change? The government is like a catalyst of future. It has accelerated future boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's there. Right. And you can't stop it. And therefore, countries are going to behave differently.


Families are going to behave differently.


And we don't know if the world needs so many people. One of the things that I remember watching a documentary, we talked about this before cars were invented. The horse population went like this. And as soon as a third of the population just went down, intelligence because you do not need so many of them. Hmm. Now, this is a very scary possibility because human beings are not horses. So certainly you have to keep giving them free income to survive, will they be happy with it?


And we are entering very scary possibilities that. We don't even have the mechanism to prevent a civil unrest. Yeah, we are allowed to put peaceful together. What if it's not? What if it has 50 percent of jobs for Longdale? And what if we are not going to get them like the only to gabs down billions of dollars and not having a job? What happens now? Right. So the thing is the moment a country becomes emotionally charged.


You do not know what outcome it creates because it behaves like a mob after that, and I think to me, imaginary 2064, India seems like a very hard thing because are going to go through a lot of pain before we get there. And, you know, it's a funny story, but if you look at every country that made it big, it first went through insane amount of crisis. It almost looks like it's compulsory stuff before you become big in life.


Yeah, 100 percent, which also echoes a scary thought there in the book yesterday, which is that the next war is always going to be a civil war within countries. Countries aren't going to fight each other. It's just that that's been the nature of mankind that the worst and most pivotal wars in human history are always when a brother fights a brother, as in when you fight, unable to all the future wars, possibly according to the trajectory of where we are going to be within countries again, because all those thoughts we spoke about with this whole concept of artificial intelligence becoming a crucial part of mankind, taking away our jobs, you know, the concept of retail actually going door mall, actually window shop to buy something versus 3D printing everything at home.


All these concepts are probably going to let a lot of people remain jobless. And even while Numerati experts of the world have no answer, the way I look at it, I kind of feel that man. And this is just the optimist inside me talking. I feel that humanity will find a solution in some way. Will that be that there will be a very good model of communism or socialism where the government takes very good care of its citizens?


I don't know what the model will be, but my big hope, and this is something I feel strongly about, is that the next Facebook of the world and the next Amazon of the world might come out of this country. And that's also a floor window where, you know, we always aim to create national businesses and not international businesses. But do you agree with me when I say something like that, that possibly the next startup, which will revolutionize everything in the world, can come out of the next virtual reality startup can come out of you?


I have very little hope on that. The reason I have a little hope on that is naturally, the country has always lost its best talent to the global audience. Right. I'll give you a story. I was once in Stanford and I met a bunch of Indian and Chinese students over there, and I asked every incidence of bizzaro and not a single person was coming back. And I asked all the Chinese that, hey, what's your plan after Stanford and all of them are going back to China?


So if our smartest brains are going to be leaving the country, and I think that's where the tricky part of socialism comes in, right, if you feel that as a taxpayer, the country's not rewarding your back. Let's say Bombay, Bangalore contribute a large chunk of taxes, but what if the taxes contribution back to the city is very, very low because they have a lot of people to take care of this country? Then you were like, let me just go and now with technology, you can actually be anywhere, right?


For example, Facebook can employ somebody in Colombia with an Indian sitting over there. So what is going to be going on mismatched and and and the whole different kind of matchmaking is going to start happening where everybody's looking at anybody going anywhere. And that is a scary possibility. Now, I do. We build these companies. The thing is talent and audacity and money and product mindset is something that is extremely hard. Right. Like I said, we've had, like a lot of global companies here are Indians.


So it's not there is no brainer. But the exposure we forget that all the Indians that we are proud of have changed their citizenship long ago, have lived abroad.


They are very more Americans than Indians. But in psychology, it something called basking in reflected glory. Right. So we were happy. Get out of the casino, Google Indian. And what was asked about by the Nuzman right to. The point is we we've had had the opportunity for the years and years, but we're constantly losing talent and. As a country, it's extremely hard to take care of the smartest people that we have. We have millions and billions of people who invest behind their education or their food, like the amount of subsidies that we have to take care of them on the loans that have to pay off.


So my worry is that the brain drain that is happening constantly. Is scary because it is happening in sleep, like some of the people that smart people that I know have now moved abroad and working in big companies like Spotify and all these other places. And I'm like. I'm just going to keep losing people who are really, really good then who's building the product for India, right. And I think that is a scary possibility. And why don't you just call a nationalist to say, get me out of my life?


I guess either one of you plan without a good idea with all of that early signs. They. I think that is the scary part. And, you know, an interesting pattern is that many times we had Indian startups doing something. Global companies came and they became bigger in the same space. Right. And almost completely electronic in many cases. Like you look at cab companies or e-commerce companies or payment companies, like fundamentally, we are not able to keep up and competing with them.


So the thing is that how do we become global companies? Right. The sheer ruthlessness of the sheer relentlessness that we need to make it big and the amount of capital and talent required is probably likely to not be there because great talent can work together. Are we creating a country where people will still be enjoying their time, would love to have their kids raised? I think these questions are hard. And as a nation, we are conflicted between there a small group that feels like that in Singapore and the rest of the nation that feels like Africa.


And we join them together. An government official and therefore is an interesting thing. When you fly over Bombay or Barnardo's is a blue sky then and then together. That would be right. And that is the state of India. Right. That if now let's say medical care is not there, like where would you want to be locked down during covid India or abroad? If life really opened up using money, you would just probably go in countries that are likely to have more better healthcare.


So I think those are the questions which are harder to answer. And it's not in government hands. A lot of times you just start coming and blaming the government. Are you going back to the government? The problem is the country is built by its people. All the monitors on your. How much are people reading that they are having to constantly dump on content so that it makes sense to people? But the point is that you are competing in a global world.


We are making textbooks easier to understand. We are making videos easier to understand. We are summarizing books so that people understand a little bit about it. But you are competing with global talent. How are we going to win? So my worry is that our skill set, our talent is not keeping up and gender curiosity is just very, very low and everybody thinks separate hogy. But in the world we are living and you can never separate only because you have to constantly up your game to be relevant in the game.


Right. You can disagree very the whole outcome. In fact, I would say most degrees are extremely irrelevant on.


But who's going to give people who are currently in college? That's bad news. Do you know, I mean, there's so many things I want to say right now, right, from the fact that back when I was in college, I feel like parental psychology was very different from the parents of college students today. But they are actually telling them that you will do what BAJADA whatever. You know, social media, business school friends are thinking differently. That's a positive.


I do feel that, you know how we are getting a brain drain. So who's actually leaving the country? It's like urban kids. Maybe it's not really the Beatles, I mean, because they don't have the money to live.


Now, just my experience has been that some of the pivotal hires have been from the industry, including during the pandemic, where I've had to actually file some long time people at our organization because they were too expensive and they weren't working as well as someone who we could hire for one third the price and who would do triple the amount of work.


So that's my personal big hope. I feel like those kids need to be taught concepts of entrepreneurship, leadership, even very human concepts. Like you don't like just thinking that like relentlessness, things like that.


My question to you very quickly, it's actually a pretty vast question, but I love to hear your opinion on this today. I think Jeff Bezos is networked across two hundred billion dollars. What can a kid sitting in a village in India that you've never heard of, what can that kid learn from Jeff Bezos in terms of a mindset and that we can adopt if he has to become the Bezos of India? That's a very good question.


I think. All the billionaires will become billionaires have become big to very basic principles of life, right, and understanding how things work right and understanding is not the responsibility of teacher. Understanding the war and how it operates is your responsibility. And if you're visiting that area and pulling it in the third quarter, will the to places like our biggest cause of this country with all of the important places to solve a super dumb exam, so super dumb hacks, and then we think we are smart.


Then you understand? And I would say that the simple thing is you are not going to make it big if you do not understand not very small marks when you do not understand what is a business, what do the principles of the business?


How many people are curious about understanding like geocaches shelter. Right. What is the revenue model? What is the average output? We don't know this one. And I'll be waiting for education system to teach us this stuff, because by the time you get bigger and go to college, all these words are irrelevant anyways. And you look, if you like a piece of the performance, a little cigarette. Right, because it is our entrepreneurs building education institutions all.


So they are already on some of these things, right? So many Stanford courses are available free on YouTube.


I sometimes see 5000 videos of you, all of you go way up, according to the reason it is like you're talking about Y Combinator is how to start a startup instead of you do it like you can just keep surfing.


And I think all of us, you I have become smarter not to work on it is by watching content or constantly having this nuclear Janiak has improved, greatly improved. We're constantly searching. In fact, it's funny the word how at UW, if you look at Google Trends in last five or 10 years, the world has declined. All searches will also tomorrow ship.


Right. And the thing is.


But there is so much more to figure out, I thought for almost every home and I guess I said tonight, the environment and media gets the headline on Gluskin. The default isn't a search for everything. Recently I was shouting all yes. Glaspie followed those traditional Najia and I thought, OK, if you put the shampoo and VIPR, the shampoo never falls out like this is great. Like 40 years of my life, I did not notice. Now I know it right.


The point is the need and curiosity is just not there. And we are very happy getting our status from the top videos and likes. And also looking at the problem of lakes is that not everybody can make it big. Right. We forget that no matter what we are seeing in a country with low trust, there's always going to be 25 companies that all the profit, 25 Bollywood guys will have all the profits, 25 apps that will have all the users.


The thing is, you have to really break out and create new territories, right? One fun story in India, inheritance was always shared. So naturally, when a person dies, the land was divided between two sons and we do not have civil inheritance, which was a different controversial topic. But in the West there, the concept was first born.


So the first one got inheritance.


The second one has to go and do exploration to get his own property. So naturally that society became exploratory and capturing and India kept deciding which languages applied native language. Right. And this is the fundamental difference. One more thing. I also I was once in Portugal and I went to a beautiful church over there is a beautiful monument for Vescovi Lama or one of these explorers. And I was like, why is it inside of the church? Because normally you see the outside of the church.


This is the culture in Portugal that all the explorers but given higher status, more than the king and they were buried inside the church.


Wow. So suddenly explorers are respected, but who's more popular in India? Bollywood star entrepreneurs. So what would you decide to be your desire to be the cool guy, like a Bollywood star? You don't want to be an entrepreneur because it's not cool to be entrepreneurs, right? We've not made them heroes yet. And yet and I think that's the one interesting thing that they have to be very sure of what we want. We've made a lot of people popular being politicians.


A lot of people want to be politicians. They like to go and college politics, they want to go against. That is kind of interesting fact, right? You will see all sorts of people who manage to get status through comedy to portray or whatever become a politician. But you will never see a politician become a poet or paternoster. And that is the ultimate status, Jim. Right. And the point is that we have a fundamentally wrong role models.


Now, the question is, do we want to become a Western society? It is the question that we need to answer. I feel that we need to make them the heroes, right. We need to make people who create wealth heroes. We need to encourage people, employees to have stocks in the companies that they work for. You don't have those concepts. You don't even understand these concepts. How many people are participating in the stock market? 20 million people in one point two billion people like a mutual fund, but just is going to not only a maximum of.


The point is that is someone very shared something about capitalism, something about that and how are we playing this game? Yeah, I want to just bring in two, three concepts from Passport, Gus, Amando, Mind, Doctora and Bielecki speaking. What is going on with Shiki, which in ancient India was the first subject we were taught in Junior Gazy. You were taught to look at an object and ask yourself why this object shaped like this visored not shaped like this, which is again the same concept.


You said that wise that ideology kind of left us somewhere over medieval times. I think it left us, which is something I spoke to with al-Istrabadi Tripathi about.


So he basically he said that, you know, something's gone wrong.


It was this whole, again, an ego game, a kingside fighting each other. Therefore, society got destroyed. And the third thing I want to talk about is, again, the present times there was this conspiracy theory I read about how not all warfare is physical.


So you can have wars like between two nations where there's tanks and missiles and planes and soldiers killing each other. Or you can have psychological warfare.


And the big conspiracy is that. Hmm. Has China started psychological warfare in India by introducing the dog in this country and by introducing Pobjie in this country side? Firstly, my question to you is, let's hear your thoughts on psychological warfare and what do you think of this conspiracy? And the second question is, what do you think about gaming in general? And you think gaming is benefiting or spoiling the future of the youth of this nation, first of all.


Whenever you find flaws in people and their first reaction is to blame somebody else. They are not really reflecting on what the problem is. Hmm. As a country, we should stay away from all the people who sell conspiracy theories to us because they're not trying to gain followership.


Hmm. Do not idolize people because they give you the gold to which you come and gather and make them the leaders. Hmm. You are to question every single thing. Right, and unless you question every single thing, you will always be manipulated. Because the human brain does not like to burn energy for the short answer to you without having checked the readings, it is the largest ever. Yeah, and you keep forgetting that we keep dressing up like Prince and princesses for the last 50, 60 years headings.


What is that? Isn't it statistically, half of all Americans are like volunteers, actually kind of person, would you or I or quinceañera can dance? All right, what is it? What are you doing? We keep we need to ask these fundamental questions, and any time the shortcut answer that comes to our mind, the first tendency should be to rejected an Oscar. Deeper question. Otherwise, we will keep shifting from conspiracy theories and theories because the brain one shortcut, you need genital utilization.


Right, and this is our country's biggest problem, we have never been trained to think of criticality one thing, any country that respects elders. Stays done, done, I'll tell you why, because your is accepted. I don't have a violent. Elitism of the slave mentality, and you fundamentally give curiosity to ask tough questions, how many kids in India will be allowed to ask a question about why does God exists? Why should we be doing this ritual?


How many people have questioned why should Russia abandon exist now that we are an equal society?


The moment we ask these questions, we will have so much of outrage in our society because we accept, but we accept norms to not be messed with.


And I think that creates a very interesting society by itself that there is a value for values, right. But the question that if you don't allow questioning, then you will always be ruled by the next person who can give us a story. Right. And I think for our country to be convulsively. We will always be manifesting what we truly are right on our country will be like what we are. A lot of people say that really a Bollywood movie, some bullshit movie.


How can people like that stuff? But we have to understand that those movies meant to underscore because probably the average IQ of the country has stayed low. And what have you done to improve that? We can't keep judging. I see so many people from Netflix keep it on the small screen.


There is a meme right now, a sort of a Cougar KPO But the point is this content is the highest diarchy content.


Yeah, why is it the case that the reason for it, right. And I think unless we ask ourselves tough questions, take efforts to really evolve minds, we are not going to get better. And I think that the biggest problem is about worship or canonical worship because he's questioned the thought about this.


Why? What if he's wrong? What is the latest on why are you following people like we keep moving from? Let's follow Gary here, because what they've uncovered. But what if he's on? What if everybody is wrong? Why are you not questioning, why are you not seeking truth? And I think thinking is very hard to learn later in life because, like, it's like I know you have to believe very early on in life. I'll give you one example.


In Israel, mothers don't ask children when they come back from school, they ask you the question that they ask is, what was the most interesting question you asked today?


Now, imagine the power of that one single ritual every day that the son or daughter are thinking of any concept question by which I'll tell my mom.


And because they're asking a very good question, the teachers are becoming better. And the society becoming smarter and smarter? Yeah, dude, I've been to Israel and it's been it's been one of the life experiences that stays with you forever. That country's just different. And I feel like I wrote when it comes to human progress in the world. But go on, please. I'm sorry I'm interrupting.


You know, I'm just saying that the thing is, when we go abroad and we see it on YouTube and part of any world war, yes, we are almost going abroad like we are going to zoom and observing.


The world is like a zoo made commando versus immersing with that world, learning something from it. Right. What's the point of going abroad and eating the same food that you eat at home? OK, or handled with the same people you hang out with in Bombay, it is. Hmm, how many Indians have traveled alone anywhere in their life? So they're very likely to get individual opinions are opinions out of a group? There are more news and opinion because we don't appreciate anybody trying to be alone.


If you are a young kid, Anderson, tell your parents I want to go alone to Lubbock or I want to go alone to spend the apologetic. How are you going to find individuality without explanation? So I think we are very early days into these things and it will take some time.


While that was a heavy answer, I think the core kind of insight I got is change the culture, change the culture right from the top, have have whoever the PM, the educators telling people to explore people, to accept people, to question whether the world is going to happen in the next 40 to 50 years. But in saying that, you never know how social media is going to grow and will it actually be a situation where purely by numbers of one hundred million YouTube subscribers will be very normal for an audience, considering the fact that we have the biggest population in the world?


So will we have these really powerful social media influencers slash Bollywood actors who will influence society? That's my optimistic outlook on it. But the question I have to bring you back to is the big gaming question. Will Pobjie wave that's going on? And I want to know from you, because you're someone who's considered like what society would call wealthy and successful, considering the fact that you've asked about the status and the wealth. Kim, what's your outlook on ABC?


Is it kind of helping kids develop, you know, in certain fields? I'm sure it is.


Obviously, it doesn't have the reflexes, et cetera.


But how much does your reflexes matter in terms of setting up a wealthy family life? You know, like that's what I want to know, that, like, what's it actually doing for you as a person? Also, keep in mind, just generally, the gaming community is extremely possessive about what they are protecting, which is their ideals, about what I want to career in gaming and I'm going to kill it in gaming. And Wii gaming is a growing industry in the world.


We're very aware of that. You're someone who has an outlook on the modern startup world, the future of this country, what gaming doing to the youth of the population?


It's a good question. First of all, the reason gaming is becoming big is that we have a natural tendency to get short of minutes. And if the big screen remember that. Let me ask you a question. Can I build biceps by just doing something for two minutes? Is that a way to do that? It's not like I will need to give hours and diet and muscle effort to be able to get a good body. Right. So anything that is worth fighting takes deliberate effort for hours and months and years sometimes.


Right. Can I become an Olympian gold medalist by getting a dopamine here and there? No, I have to give hours and hours of practice. Can you become good at is an exam? No, you'll have to give hours and hours of contribution with it. But what happens is that the brain can be easily fooled into getting the small, small shocks right. Instagram for though like I don't have a picture yet. We'll go back and then we go to Georgia and we go somewhere else.


We go something and the brain is just moving shallowly from one place to another place, constantly getting hit right through what's out there in the middle. And we keep doing this all day long. Right now, you can keep saying on Instagram we learn we just almost always see on the gaming's that reflects flexible time. The question is, will anybody pay money for it? There's a concept in Japan, Kolasinski guy. It says that you have to do three things.


One stuff that you like, one that you're likely to be good at. And the third, I'm assuming it's about what the world will pay money for. If everybody decides to do, you do what you do. They have on. Hmm. And the point is that we do not understand that some professions are fundamentally limited in what we will do when. How will you beat their biceps on August, he's been around for five years, just because you see that are coming to Chicago and I'll copy what he's doing, but you can't because there are 500 things that he knows about his game that he's not even documented.


It's in his brain. Our every single thing that you've done, so I think my my biggest worry is that we do all of these things are supposed to be for fun, but if you think that the will create income skills, it's not possible. And therefore, we have to understand that entertainment has to be treated like entertainment according to be watching a movie or Netflix or playing a game or chilling with friends at all your break times. And we all deserve it.


But if it becomes an identity. It's a very scary situation. What happened to all the tick tock stocks suddenly went down? What are they doing now? I'm curious to know, because it became that identity for the good guys, for the guys who were looking people at the top of the audience examining it. But for people who believe the community, it's going to be a big thing. So I think the question is that what makes money, right?


Getting followers and legs is not good enough. I don't think that creates wealth. And you have to solve the problem with the golf either because you are afraid of it. And I think people often confuse these things because we don't understand what do people want. Right. And what are the people willing to pay money for? What are people willing to pay a lot of money for? Right. And that to me, is in a very early phase right now where we are understanding the things that you have to be told, like entrepreneurship.


Exists in the country of Buganda's and businessmen, we are not country of late job makers, but we've forgotten what makes people pay money, what makes people kind of good stuff. And I think that is going to be answering your question on Charton, on giving, I, I think it's a good blip because a young population that is bored and alone and lonely and a lot of times people feel fortunate to have friends and do the thing. They're converting their identities to different things.


But my biggest worry is that if this becomes identity, what happens to your real identity? That's going to be a scary place to be. Yeah, it's one of those things where definitely gaming has its advantages, the gaming industry has potential to grow, it will create some jobs, but not jobs to kind of satisfy that whole bubble of youth that's kind of invested in it. And I think that people are so into the dopaminergic aspect of the game that they will go to any degree to defend even the concept of gaming.




So the final takeaway is that, dude, it's cool, have fun. But growth skills that even outside of it, even if you grow a gaming skill set, just having that second, third, fourth, fifth skill set can add so much to even your gaming career. So I'd probably look at it like that. Now, one of the final few questions I have for you on the board, because, again, we spoke a lot about wealth driven societies in this.


And that seems to be a concern that you think about a lot. Therefore, I feel like you think about wealth a lot in general. And I'm not going money. I'm just talking about wealth even means knowledge.


Wealth means, you know, just the ability to invest in different places, the ability to affect other people's lives, ability to elevate your team, all that is wealth. Keeping that in mind, what other industries you as an entrepreneur would invest in would keep an eye out for for this country. For the world. What are you looking at specifically? And I obviously have to ask you that. Do you have an eye on social media? Like, I guess that's a selfish question, but really want to know.


On. All wealth is created when you help people achieve what they want in life. Right, so the moment you make it easy for them to achieve what they want, they give you money for it. So money is what we pay to somebody or a product to make it easy for us to achieve what we want. That's a summary of a business right now. People want different things, right? For example, if you ask a lot of Indian parents, they would disproportionately spend on, let's say, educating the kids.


But would they pay five of these extraordinary charges to get one minute faster?


No. Right, because as a country, we never had a massive revolution, a country that does not have a natural revolution does not understand the value of time. Right. So, for example, if you go to any Western country, you ask them, what is the salary per? Everybody knows because the first job was an Army salary job. And even if they income to do the math in their head, is one out of the salary cap that.


In India, if you ask anybody what they're incomparable, they have more to. Because our first job is the monthly job. And continues to be a monthly income and therefore we do not the good decisions that time on an hourly basis. For example, if you find out that your salary per hour is 5000 rupees, does it make sense to spend 30 minutes to look for 200 people, just kind of like ticket? And these questions are not asked because we don't understand this concept, and therefore in this country, making money on products that save time sometimes is order versus products that increased status because of their status in society.


And fundamentally, all the profits are in status society. One fine example, I have a friend who used to be a buyer at a very large retail company in India. I asked him to just take one thing. Can you please check the margins of product in all four living room and all four bedroom? And she's like I said, there's a new level of dining, we have kitchen and need other Gambro, please check your living room was his bedroom and the profit margins of products for a living room had 3x small margins and better in a lot of those company.




Because living room, their products are made for status.


Bedroom is not and fundamentally, therefore, margins in India are on more than living room floors and bedroom products. But if you switch this context and go to Western countries, very individualistic, they're spending a lot more money in their bed sheets and a lot more than their mattresses and beautiful pillows and their bathroom. Very expensive products because they're taking care of themselves. But we need to look at them and they're full of motivation and margins exist in about statis. Let's think about all the candidates.


Am I likely to make money from them if I offer them status or convenience? Think about it. The answers almost in. Like what what would be examples of status driven businesses like, you know, that have this status, Gamak, they like think about Monero Chatikavanij right.


I've only just met, like, you'd be surprised.


These are like 70, 80 percent gross margin because they make you look good, right?


The material cost is nothing will probably be 30 to 40 rupees, but it's all for you. What about you next to it? You'll probably sell for five thousand twenty five thousand sixty thousand. Right. On a product that we signal like this thing I'm getting. What is this? Just because there's a hundred US law would be so much more expensive because you can recognize all the. I know what this is. Right. And stuff is designed naturally that way.


I don't remember very well in school and anybody who got a magnetic compass box was called. All kids that is doing that are, well, them by Hezbollah, and therefore, while all products for kids are usually very high gross margin because kids are constantly trying to compete degenerate status, don't look at all the stars. We got flash cards. They were so expensive. But we took it because we could show off to our friends, right?


So fundamentally, products that increase your status will always be higher gross margin, and you can either increase the sales or prevent statis loss rates or anything like that. In charge would be high gross margin business because it would reduce the social status. So you protected in some way. So basically, anything that's emotional in nature will always have high risk margin either. I remember watching this movie of. I to put it on, and then parents have kids at a very early age, I'm forgetting the name of the movie.


I know the one you're like and I hope. But are you. Yeah. And there's a scene where this guy goes to a wedding of a judge and he says he asked, have you come on the. And the shaman says we need to see lighting that commentators clear-headed. So the Indian mindset is of key collecting money and allow various. But how many unicorns in India startups have background of weddings, zero. The reason to zero is we have no idea how to copy from from the vault because one does not have identity matters.


I spend so much on weddings, so we have not learned anything. Most of our ideas in India are copycat models of the Western or Eastern models, whereas spending on a wedding is a very Indian thing. But this is education, the lots of education, some very, very big because we don't spend disproportionately on education. Right. I often tell people that education is actually like always right. If we do target the toughest job we did not always, etc, etc.


because everybody takes a job for a living in the in. So I think that's the way to think about it. Right. Fundamentally, the country is confused about these things and will never understand these things. And therefore your job is to not make them vulnerable. Job is to serve a big. Right. And the surprising thing about when you managed to get money from your parents for doing some work for them was did more to save the time or was it more to increase their status and sometimes asking this question of doing more things?


What what industries would you point young investors at or young entrepreneurs who just don't know what they want, to end up finding a big idea as to your mom and dad cousins and ask them, would you pay money for it?


Hmmm, not look at the Internet, don't look at Internet. The answers are around new. And if you can find a way to let them pay for it, make up a large platform like an Apple distributor or a Web distributor. I always ask this question, do your family members, will you do you think people will pay money for this when you pay money for this? What will your dad pay money for? What would you want the money for?


What will your cousins, brothers, sisters pay money for? And if you know this 90 percent of time, you'll get a successful business because you fundamentally ask the question is over again. Hmm. What are your knowledge sources, how do you work your brain muscles, like what would you recommend any books that created an impact, any book to go back to? What do you do for your mind?


I, I have a very different approach. I don't finish any book I read. I am a guy who gets curious about a topic that I researched every week. This concept of the millennium God, for example, I randomly got curious about evolution Shambu Gonzales. Then I found out that the word shampoo comes from the word jumbe and the guy who used to sell for jumping champion and went into Europe and Europeans converted into shampoo. She was converted to shampoo and the word shampoo comes a little jumpy.


Now, the point is, this is random information that I know because nobody else has ever gotten curious about your shampoo glass. Right. And the thing is, I didn't randomly curious about many, many topics I researched completely and I let my curiosity be very little. Why is an important topic in India if you are a kid and you randomly got to do about something up and is not the mocktail primate of Montealegre? This random curiosity, but every good has it.


Fortunately for me, because I was television screens, I lived in a major city. Right. And use the Internet for asking this question, how does this work? Why does this work? How many people know how banks work? How many people know how automobile companies work, how many, but not as little as possible. But how many businesses bocaranda cars out there? How many people know how many people Facebook has using the product every day? If you are not going to be randomly curious, you will quickly become somebody who makes less income compared to most people.


Last question of this broadcast on a very brotherly level, without your entrepreneur suit on, just your in your boxers. What is the best and worst aspect of your life as a guy right now, huh? As best as I get to meet people smarter than me constantly by writing to them, I shamelessly write to them and constantly try to spend time with people who are smarter than me. And there are two or three ways of doing that.


You read their books, you watch their videos or you read them. And if 90 percent of your time is spent with people who are smarter than you, you will become smarter. It's very simple, right? And what the thing that I'm disliking right now, I I'm just tired of this whole thing, of everybody being hauled in endless spontaneous thoughts, discussions, wildness, creativity is stuck because all of us are stuck in this Zombo, which is great.


But other than covid, I'm not talking about I hear you about covid, but in life I wish I had more time in life.


And I want to do so many things, read so much. I wish I wish I could not sleep and just be constantly doing just stuff out of curiosity and constantly be amazed at things and intrigued by things. And I just I wish I was getting younger in life. I'm 41 now and it is hard to keep up. I need my sleep and I'm like, you can get it right. And I think the thing that I would really love to change is that what if we had more hours?


But the thing is, no matter who we are, we are Mukesh Ambani, Elon Musk, anybody, Jeff Bezos, everybody has money for hours every day. The difference is what they do with the 24 hours. Beautiful. Thank you, Mr. Kenosha. He was the first episode of, I'm sure, a lot more episodes going forward over the years. I really appreciate this. Everything from you helping us with the setup to giving me my next few business ideas, too.


Just opening up your mind and all your conversations to me. I appreciate it a lot. I will be linking down all your handles in the description box. Is there any last message you have for a young Indian watching at this point?


I would only say get curious because life is going to get harder. Beautiful. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you. Bye bye.