Many Indians consider Mijovic, Jacob, to be one of the most legendary modern day figures of the Indian army. He's a veteran of the Indian Bhatta Sayf. The Indian bhatta itself is considered to be the most advanced part of the Indian army.

And on a world wide scale, the Indian border itself is looked at as one of the most respected regiments of any army anywhere in the world. And the experience of these and the stories of combat, the intensity of combat, the extreme combat situations, that he is seen as something that will stay with you forever. This is part one of our episode with Mijovic, Jacob. So many stories, so many experiences, so many mentality pieces to share with you.

We couldn't even encapsulate all of it into two parts of this chat with Major Vivec Jacob. This is just part one about his tenure with the Indian Army. Part two is about what he's doing now with his organization, Clore. But here's part one of his past. Everything he learned some of his most intense moments brought you under unusual.

To everyone, welcome to an extremely special episode of visual, sir, absolute honor. I mean, you let me tell you before we begin, this is a very, very request episode right from the time we started. We have Indian Army veteran Mediaweek Jacob of the Indian Special Forces. So honor having you here.

The Toyah seem so.

Did I did I introduce you right? Because when it comes to the Indian army, the army and the the public doesn't understand the way it's regimented, the way the army's like divided, people don't understand what the paramilitary is. This is what the Indian army is. So of course, we don't want those planes. But this part is primarily about your story. Everything that you're doing with Glawe, with Operation Blue Freedom, will Dajabón all those topics. But I'd like to actually begin with your own story.

Like after the end, everyone knows the journey to India. What happens after that? How does the Indian army get divided?

So it all begins before you get into India. Basically, people have you know, they want to join the Air Force or Army or Navy.

Mostly it's like that they already have like preconceived and some people are slightly on survival mode and all that they need to just get into the forces or something like that and then figure it out from there. A lot of people don't know what it's all about. So for them, you know, there's not much of a difference between an Army Navy or an Air Force. Some people are like that as well. But once you so you opt like that.

So you're when you you go through the merit and all those various stages which are there to enter into the India, you're classified into Army, Navy, Air Force. You come like a cadet like that from there only. So then in the term of India you are trained similarly.

You all go through the Army, Navy, Air Force cadets, you go to the same training to the fourth, fifth and sixth is when at least that's how it was in my time.

I don't know what it's like right now, but in the when you come to the fifth time you go, you divide into specialized subjects towards the Navy, towards the Air Force, towards the army, like the Air Force.

Guys start flying. You know, they start getting taught how to fly gliders. And then the Navy guys go into, you know, navigation and stuff like that of map reading at sea and stuff. And the army guys go into weapon training and things like that, which are more, you know, akin to the army kind of a job.

So when we finish off with all this training from India itself, we divide out the Navy guys, go to the Naval Academy, the Air Force, guys from the Air Force Academy, the Army guys go to Indian Military Academy.

Then we spend about a year there in our various academies and then we get commissioned and go into our various services. I went into the army, I chose the army, went into the army, and after India I went to Army. And I remember you completing a year and you're about to get commissioned. There is a place where you have to opt for which particular regiment in the army you would like to go to.

And what is that based on? Like what other different options or rules on in your head.

So for there there is a merit list which is prepared at the end of your training in Indian Military Academy. It is prepared during your your adjudge and in your service subjects, in your physical performance and your sports and games and your leadership qualities, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And then you you are placed into a merit depending on the total number of points that you have. So there is something called a superblock and something called a bar block. So and everybody else in between to superblock is the first 10 guys I don't even remember it first and the first 20 or something like that.

They are the superblock, they are the top and it in the course and they get to choose where they want to go, provided there is a vacancy, but mostly vacancies are there.

So they get to choose some people, job offer, engineers, some people offer, you know, like technical arms or for the infantry or for the special forces.

It's like that.

So the first training guys get to choose what they want, the next of the guys, they also get to choose what they want. But, you know, depending on the kind of vacancy, it depends where you go.

And then there's the bar. Block by block is apparently the lowest in merit and.

They also choose what they want, they want, but then depending on the kind of weekends they get, what is best available, the overall logic behind all of this grading and spreading out is that equal amount of balanced personalities, talent has to go into all regiments.

So you'll find a superblock guy going to the same place and you'll find a bar block guy also going to the same regiment.

But the special forces guys, they get to, they choose. You have to volunteer for Special Forces. Yeah.

You have to sign a volunteer form and you have to you get three options. Option one option to option three. Every guy gets three options. So like that.

So like, again, the Enin Special Forces, for someone who knows about the army, it's considered OK, this is like the most, for lack of a better word, badass part of the army that doesn't really understand what special forces entails.

Could you expand a little bit on that?

Because I really what perspective I'm coming from misses so much about US Navy SEALs, US Marines, and, you know, because of the media and Hollywood and all its projected, like all these guys are the most badass MFL in the world. And here we have the Iranian special forces who are probably even more badass because the kind of terrain we have in India, because of all the different kinds of operations that the Indian army deals with, and there's not much about that out there.

And I'm not going to change the next 10, 20 or so. But if the change had to begin with this question, how will you introduce the Indian special forces to the Indian audiences? So this whole perception of what special forces is very understandably, because people who are not in special forces, who have not experienced what the job is, have not gone through the training, we've not gone through the combat experiences, et cetera, would like to delve into who is more, who is less, who is better, who is, you know, more this or that.

But actually people who are actually in the special forces know that there's a certain kind of mindset. You'll find a lot of people in the special forces who are not there.

Right? You mean not up to the moment? You're not up to the mark? Yeah, definitely.

The I have what it takes to deliver what is required in combat from a mentality perspective.

Yes, it's all it's all what you do.

Finally, when when you know the shit is flying, that's what makes you special forces.

You can wear any fancy uniform and you can carry any fancy weapon and all sorts of daggers and grenades and fly all sorts of drones and all sorts of waves and all sorts of jazz. You can have it to dispose of.

But if you don't have that instinct to explore and to handle what you find when you when you are exploring, then it's, you know, you're not there.

So all the special forces across the world, the people who are there, who are going through, those who have chosen those experiences, we choose what we experience constantly.

So we are we are the same it's the same exploratory spirit, exploration, exploratory spirit, which is transferred into your brain and generates thoughts.

And you act like that on the ground. And in some way you have you have let go so you can explore.

That's the Special Forces mindset and that is shared by all the special forces across the globe.

It's like that.

And in some previous podcast also, I mention like if you you send me naked on a mountain like and all like that, that when I say me, I'm talking about the Special Forces spirit.

Right. You send me naked in a mountain and you leave me there, I'll get back and I'll go and do what needs to be done because I've chosen that experience.

So that's where the spirit comes from, where you are not.

Satisfied with what is there? You want to know more? You want to explore more. And in the quest of that exploration, Special Forces is extreme because you're constantly placing your life on the line.

So when you're placing your life on the line, you're going to circumstances and situations where you're placing the life, your own life on the line and your life connected with all the attachments. You've got to the rest of what is behind you, your children, your mother, father, brother, sister, love of your life, et cetera, et cetera. Right.

And you're you're able to put all of that there and then and then, you know, stand on the cutting edge of life and death you will find.

And that's a constant process. Constantly going through that, constantly going through that. So that's basically exploration.

Yeah. Again, like, I know that, you know, an Army man wouldn't like me saying that.

But again, this is just for the armed and this is the closest the real life gets to a Rambo or the highest wing of the military where special forces are sending, functionally speaking, when there is a difficult job, we don't know a very important job.

Would the Army send in special forces?

So it's not that that there's any job which is difficult or which is easy or whatever.

And then special forces are assigned to do the impossible and things like that. It's just a matter of efficiency that is all efficiency.

So there are certain kind of tasks, certain kind of roles in national security within and without the national boundaries of your particular nation, whichever you may be from where the powers that be, let's say the government or the armed forces were operating in various theaters, did they decide that, OK, this needs to be done and it needs to be done in this manner?

And they've got a variety of, you know, surgical instruments or, you know, hammers if you want to call them or whatever. So they choose that, OK, this job requires to be done in this way. This requires the artillery to come in, this requires the armored car to come, and this requires the infantry to come in. This requires the missile regiments to come, and this requires the Air Force to do it. This requires the special forces to do it.

It's like that. So everyone is specializing in the job.

We are just specializing in what we have been elected to do and organized, collected, inspired and short out to do that.

So I've again hung around you guys for the last two, three days. I've seen the way or even act glawe.

And of course, we're going to come looking for. You have not seen it. I mean, I've seen a bit of it. I've had like some glimpses and I've had deep conversations with Major Aroon as well.

One thing I've noticed is that your focus a lot on teamwork, which is the obvious thing. I'm sure there's the obvious skill that gets polished through the course of going through the Army.

The other thing I'd really again highlight is efficiency. US constantly ask questions about processes and ask yourself how things can be improved. So that's one thing I've noticed. Secondly is I got to bring this conversation to you on a very individual level, the podcast.

And, you know, we've had deep conversations about meditation. It allows the meditator or the podcast to psychoanalyze fairly well.

And I know that you guys psychoanalyze people well as well. That's a part of your job profile. But when I psychoanalyze you, I feel like there's been three versions of you once the guy before, you know, the army started when you were studying for it. The second is the guy who finished his dorm with the special forces and who took that call about, OK, now I want to change things up. Now, let's take another rollercoaster. Let's jump from this one to another one.

And the third one would be the guy you are right now who is still evolving. And there's probably gonna be a fourth, fifth, sixth one.

Might be an entrepreneur, might be someone who runs the personal brand, might be an online persona, might be just a purpose driven person, might be a spiritual person towards the end, whatever you are right now.

But I've seen these three distinct visions of you.

And often when I speak to podcast, guess I can see a certain level of their life, especially when they open up this much on the show, a part of you.

So I just feel like you've seen so many layers of things that irritate and Borgas to unplug everything you've seen.

So I'd actually love for you to highlight that, especially I know there's going to be moments, but would you agree with me when I say that till this point you've had three or max four different kinds of mindsets in your own life?

You had to tell the revolution to switch.

What I have understood, again, whatever I say is my perception. I am as imperfect as everyone else and as perfect as everyone else. So it's my perception of from my experiences and my understanding and maybe my past lives and something like that exists or whatever.

So the thing is that what I what I understood is that there are three levels of consciousness at a baseline that is. A follower, a leader and an explorer. So you can very easily classify people into let into these three categories, people who follow like like to follow something that makes sense to them, people who like to lead people because that makes sense to them.

And then there are people who don't care about who's following or who's leading. They are on their own trip that exploded, exploring or exploring what it means to be themselves, to be alive and to have a choice.

Right. So all human beings at various stages in their life are are existing in all these three spheres of following, leading and exploring, like even, for example, me.

Every day I'm following someone, I'm leading someone.

And I'm on my own trip as well. I'm exploring. So so it's like that.

So you shift consciousness, you know, or you shift in the level of your perception of what is going around you outside and what is going around inside of you at various stages.

Depending on where you are, you will be functioning as such.

So yeah, there will be shifts and all that, all these shifts are there. But actually what is there? That is there is only your consciousness actually that is only there. Right.

So it's that pure consciousness which is, which is trying to find out itself. Right. Trying to understand itself. Realize itself so it can be free. Right. And retail level of vibration, whether it is in bliss forever if you want to, you know, call it like that.

So yeah.

So if I look at myself, if I look back at my life and I see my consciousness level or my awareness levels and what drove me towards certain actions, certain choices in life and now where I am.

But I was 10 years from now, five years from now. And where I'm going to be tomorrow is, well, there there are these shifting consciousness or awareness levels, et cetera. But there is one single thing which is constant throughout, and that is a spirit to be free, a spirit to be free. Yeah. If you just want to Crunchie the spirit to be free now that spirit to be free manifests itself in our life.

And these three levels, sometimes the following to learn something, you know, you'll meet some guru or you'll meet some, you know, you'll have a commanding officer in the army or somebody you look up to and you'll follow him by choice or by because of circumstances or whatever.

And then there is you will be placed on leadership role. Everybody is in a leadership role in some way or the other.

And then and you then you are at an exploratory stage also constantly now where your consciousness is operating at that point of time, whether it is at an at at a follower stage or a leader stage or an exploratory stage at that particular moment is where you are, where you are. And then there is a general overall perception of a human being of his own life. And in my case, that's like a rocket.

You know, I just want to fly off. Yeah. Yeah.

Just reach what we already are. It's just that journey of raising your awareness levels that said demand from the ground is minimal.

Having a deep conversation yesterday about how you guys have your own trajectory when you joined the Special Forces.

And I've had these same organizations and major as well.

Just very different mentality with you guys and from the outside looking in.

I believe it's because of two things in particular. One is the training and the mentality you develop during the training. You're explain this to me, and I'd love for you to cover that aspect on the podcast. And the second thing is actual combat, because if you're me and you're practical to what you've studied, that really changes you as a human being. So first of all, do you agree when I say that?

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Your experiences unlock your own potential of what you are. That's it.

Could you highlight these two phases of your life and what you gain again as a man like, you know, because I mean, every human being has that. But also as we are going from being a child to becoming an adult and it happens repeatedly. But specifically when we talk about the Indian Special Forces, I feel like these are the two big changes, your training and actually going through combat. I'd love to know that.

So. Special Forces. Is a state of mind, like I said, right, it's a state of consciousness level, it's a state of being exploratory in nature and willing to put in all that. You have to be able to see more, to explore more and even the cost of your own life and your cost of the attachments that you have.

Right.

So in the special forces or I'll speak about myself, I would look even I would look for all these probationers who would come, I would look for that spirit knife. That guy had that spirit.

It's very easy to spot. You know, you can pick it up later when you spot it, then it's just a matter of letting it happen.

The selection process of Special Forces is so intense that, you know, all your all your paraphernalia of your ego and and and your perceptions of yourself and all those things that dissolve in the amount of energy which is expended or you are exposed to, it just shatters all that is around you.

And very quickly, you are brought out from there and then looked back.

So you mean like energy, like physical, mental, emotional, all kinds of full spectrum of energy, your circumstances around you, the world that you are experiencing, be it what your body is experiencing, what you are, what your eyes are seeing, basically what your mind is experiencing in those set of circumstances which are created, time tested, set of circumstances which are created to break you and then see what is there and expose it, bring it out and have a clear look at it and straight up and make a judgment that do I want to work with this man in combat or not?

If I'm going exploring what I want this guy by my side or not, can I trust this man to be able to do what needs to be done?

Right.

So so the first filtration process starts from the well entering phase itself.

And so, people, it takes a lot to volunteer for the special forces, especially when you've been in the academy, you've been in India for three, three and a half years, whatever, like me and a half years related, I had a broken leg, blah, blah, blah.

So three years in the NBA and then one year in the Army.

And then after all of these intense amount of that, you get and you still choose four more.

Right. So it takes balls to fill in your volunteer form. So when people volunteer, that's the first level of clearance that they've already crossed.

And they volunteer for special forces when they take the decision to put their pen on that paper and sign it. I want to go one level higher. Yeah, I want to see more. Mhm. Yeah.

So that's the voluntary of this thing. And then you have to be at a certain level like there are meritless and all that. A lot of people now apply for the Special Forces and all that in our time. It wasn't so many men in my bachelorhood that an explosion normally that a fire six guys out of a course of three hundred and fifty or applying for Special Forces in my time that was 33, 34 people who applied. So because our instructors were there from the Special Forces were so inspiring.

So when you volunteer, you come into the you come into the you know, if you fit in the bracket of various things that are required, you are you are picked up and you're allowed to come to a special forces unit.

And in that Special Forces unit, when you come in from the from the moment you land up at the gate, from there onwards, your life shifts. Everything is stripped of you.

Right. Right. From your ego to your clothes to your whatever it is, then you are brought into the moment.

And that moment is crushing in nature. Right.

Are you allowed to expand on that? Yeah. Like like what happens.

Yeah. So I'll complete what I'm saying and then take you down the various alleys, you know. So you're so you're, you're basically you volunteer. That's the level of clearance itself. It takes a lot for a person to be able to sign that form because he knows if he feels, you know, there's so many things to lose. Some so many people know that you're volunteering for the special forces on alert. You don't make it. There's so much disappointment then.

And then if you have an ego, you'll have you'll feel less because other people will judge you and stuff like that. A lot to lose if you really think about it.

But then people who are able to and there is never any surety that you will make it. That is never any shortage.

Only those people are sure who don't even think about it.

They just end up there like the rest of the people who start judging whether I will get selected, not get selected. What will happen? This will happen. That will happen.

They go through a lot of inner turmoil and they have to deal with that.

Besides dealing with what, you know, shit has been thrown at Orlinda.

So then when you reach the gate and then. Certain you come into an environment, that environment is built to screw you.

Is built to eat you, break you and teach you new things, but the spirit is the same.

So you it's. You're already there, you just being taught, right, so you go through that process.

It's a three month process and I was very fortunate to go through six months of that process because of various reasons.

And then when you go through that entire process, you learn a lot not only about special forces skill sets and things like that, but also you learn you come to realize about yourself a lot of what your body is capable of, what your mind is capable of, what your heart is capable of, and what is there beyond.

When you give up, when you when you just let it all go and you're hanging by a thread of choice because the choice you made so you're hanging by the thread of choice constantly.

They're constantly there. And when you have when that choice is so strong and you remain there, that's what we are looking for.

Self of an ability to make a choice for yourself and stick by it. So that's what filters out in combat you. That's what we want in combat. So when when combat is happening, when bullets are flying, bombs are exploding, people are freaking dying, killing each other, all that shit is happening. Intense amount of chaos.

It's chaos. The whole universe is gone just like you're dead. Right. So it's that time there is an immense amount of clarity or there will be an immense amount of confusion.

So that difference between immense amount of clarity and immense amount of confusion is based on how much of an ability to make a choice you have got. So that we are able to determine during the probation process itself, during the selection process itself, we are able to determine that is this guy going to stick or is he going to run? We don't judge it. It's OK to run or whatever. It's natural, but that's not going to work in combat.

And if you run your weakening the the team itself, the demise of stand line up and fucking get into it. So it has to be like that. You have to go in rather than get out. You have to go and penetrate, reach buried open and open it up and make it your own.

You make that space your own skin.

So there are certain kind of people who are that consciousness level where they understand that the choice is theirs. Those are the kind of people we look for.

And the entire selection process is to be able to see whether that guy is like that or not. So people are are already like that.

So we choose from those people.

And the circumstances are such that all those people who are not already at that stage of making their own choices and sticking by them, the rest of them just get out from there.

They get out very, very quickly. There are some who are more and more and more so be. That's why it is a long process.

People have different levels of being able to make a choice. We want the guys who can make the ultimate choice because they made it and they can stick by it. Even if Maraj comes and stands in front of you will tell our fucking put a bullet in you, man. Get the fuck out of my way. It's like that.

How could you highlight the circumstances that actually caused the segregation? Like what does the training school put you through? Like just a few of you mean.

So it's a dual process. So Special Forces stand for efficiency.

It's the highest form of efficiency that a human being can achieve in this reality.

Above this, maybe it is the yogis or whatever. You know, when you come into this environment, you are put into a dual process of being broken down, shattered, torn apart. Right. And being trained as well. It has to be efficient because the other time inner children overcome. So we need guys to come, come, come, come, come like that or you can get out from it. And it's like that.

Right. So you so you are being trained and you are being broken down as well at the same time.

So in this process of being trained and broken down at the same time, you are you're taught certain skill sets. Right? You're you're you're taught a certain skill sets that you need to be able to execute in combat.

For example, there may be explosive training, there would be a noncombat training, there may be weapon training, there may be endurance training. There may be navigation training that a lot of things, emergency medical response, training, you know, survival training, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

You're being trained and you are being trained while being broken.

Hmm. Yeah.

So, for example, when your day starts, if you are lucky, your day starts around four, 30. Otherwise, if you're unlucky, your day started yesterday, you have not slept well. And that would be like like a couple of days in a stretch.

So, for example, I'll tell you. I had a very I have a bad memory, you know, maybe that's why I'm so happy. So. So I have a bad memory and all that. And I was always like poor and gay, you know, like, I. I have no I have no interest, like, things like that in who is president and who is who who is what.

It's not my purview of things that are affecting me. Right. And. When I came in, so the whole day till seven thirty in the evening, you are being taught and you're being screwed, right? You are being really screwed to an inch of your body choice, right? Constantly. And if it's over, it's over. Like people just get up and and get up. It finishes off that quickly. There is no maybe one more chance or something like that.

So when you are so, you know, the whole day going through that whole thing and centered in the evening that you're broken off, then OK, go have your dinner or whatever it is, and then the people go and prepare and all that. So you're basically doing probation with the soldiers. So officers, soldiers, whatever, everyone is together. You live together, you eat together, you train together. Everything is happening together. So you go through the entire set of experiences, the seven thirty in the evening or eight o'clock or whenever it is on that particular day and you broken off, generally broken off to go and prepare for the next day to dinner, you know, make your diet and your, you know, making stuff that can go in and give you energy and recover what you have lost and prepare for the next day.

So essentially, they would be broken off and I was the only officer doing probation there, right. So I would have to go to the officers mess as the officers mess with the real probation would start. So all the all the bachelors of my particular unit would be there for dinner and was compulsory for me to go there and have dinner.

And I would I would reach that half an hour early and I would be told, you know, I had to learn everything which is there in the mess over or begins.

There are so many trophies and there are so many, you know, memorabilia and so many things which are there. You have to learn of each and every damn thing. Who gave it?

When did he give it? Why did he give it? And what is the significance of it, etc.? I mean, there are hundreds of pieces laying around there, right. And then there are these people who have died in combat. Right. Like so they really are wanting to slow down at the various legends of our battalion who died in combat. They saw dead. Their stories are there in the officers mess.

You see it sometime and then you have to learn why. Who was he?

When did he get shot up? You know, how did he die? And you know what I was he awarded for and things like that.

So all of that you have to memorize, memorize, memorize and learn and learn and learn.

And then by the time everybody comes for dinner and then you sit and then the question answers start. Wow. Yeah.

So they'll start asking you, OK, and it can start from anything and you can start from like, you know, like what needs to happen to me.

Like I would start putting like you're hungry, you know, all day it's been done out of you and you want, you need that bloody food going into your body.

So the first spoon is going into your mouth. And, you know, somebody will just say, Jacob, what is the moonface today? And they're.

So, you know, they'll start asking you questions to check your level of awareness and so many other things in veejays to fail all the time.

I didn't know I conjecture.

What is the moonface with the president was nothing. I knew nothing. Right. And if you answer wrong, what happens? Your line. Either you know or you don't know, that's it, if you don't know and you say you don't know. Yeah, so that's what I started doing.

I would just saying I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So they'd ask one question. I'd say, I don't know the look here. They're in extreme disgust and this guy doesn't even know this. Like that. Like that. Like that.

So they'll keep asking. Keep asking. Keep asking. Keep asking. And you know that this is all piling up, right, and then they'll say, you know, you need to learn and so they'll tell you, OK, do one thing, half an hour gacek whole like. So every half an hour, you're circling the battalion. The whole battalion, there's a certain number of checkerboards, the radar that is moving, patrolling, a very high level of security going on.

See, you're circling the whole battalion the whole night, every half an hour of retake one circle.

And then in the morning at five o'clock, there's going to be a beautiful and at five, 30, there's going to be a battle preparatory endurance test go where you will be competing with all those guys. Who broke off at seven thirty last night, and they were like cooking you meat and this and that and, you know, eating almonds and whatnot and all of that, and they have slept. And they are going to be running alongside you and you better be number one, two or three, ideally one or two.

So if you don't come one, two or three, you're out. Brother, you can't make excuses that, you know, I didn't sleep last night and everybody knows you slept last night, but you will yet perform.

Because you have to lead these people in combat, you have to lead the men in combat and special forces, you don't lead by position of your rank or whatever. There is no authority in combat when the shit is flying. And that is like constantly zipping around you like like like like that.

There is no authority. There is no captain, Majorcan Little Brigade Brigadier and frickin No one. There's just you and the people who are there with you. And what are you going to do right now.

That is what decides leadership, that that is what either keeps it all together or everything is destroyed.

So that's what is checked. Yeah.

So like that you go through a process and then again the next day and then again the next day and then again the next day. Like that. Like that. Like that.

Six months. That's a little intense honesty, to say the least, but so like. You get through this process, and from what I hear, it's a lot about breaking them and breaking through all the layers, getting to the core and breaking those layers, some people's scores break.

And those are the ones that lead. And the ones who are left with that bill are caught. They become more powerful.

What do you mean? Well, now you realize yourself, now you are, you are, you know what you are. You just look back at what you have gone through for this long period of time, you know, and then you realize that nothing is impossible. Nothing, nothing, nothing. So that is the kind of realization, which is the. Chief weapon of a special forces operator. Who knows that? That all this I have gone through now you just like whatever, man, whatever, whatever.

Yeah. Like they say that while you're training, you should train, you know, for the worst case scenario so that when you're actually in the practical scenario is not the worst case scenario because you've already gone through the grueling time in your training.

Combat combat is touch-And-Go actually no training and much combat, no training guy.

Mascoma, do you feel that combat also continues your training process? Of course. Of course. It's like a painter wasn't painted. If a Special Forces soldier has you know, you've gone through and they've gone through. I mean, you've gone through a lot of shit in life. You go volunteer. You got into, you know, reached the battalion gates of hell and you reach there and you've gone through a process of six months of bloody getting screwed up and this, that and all that.

And and then you have not seen combat or you've seen very less of combat.

You are you're not there in so combat.

You know, er stop even further combat actually places you at the right mindset. And the more you see combat, the more you see this. What is combat. Combat is life.

That life, that life. That duality at its, at its cutting fucking edge.

That's combat. Right. So when you're constantly on that cutting edge and choosing to be there, you're evolving.

So yeah. So it can just keep getting intense and intense.

And what happens at it after a certain period of time, depending on what your level of consciousness is, where you already were, you know, so you're able to predict, you're able to feel it like after a certain point, like I used to tell my guys that I know something's going to happen today.

I've felt like I've known that something is going to happen.

I do. Yeah. They intuition become so powerful, so powerful that it's there in your head and thought it comes from intuition.

It turns into thought and turns into action.

It's like that you're there. You can see it. Oh, I just want to highlight one thing for the audiences that this skill of inclusion as you develop through the course of your journey, I suppose you end up going away from the army and writing something after your army.

Daniel, you apply that intuition in your second innings as well.

And I've seen this with you got bondable, just taking the experience from the army and applying it in the real world to make the real world a better place. But that's still just like the highlight. Come back a little bit again.

So do you remember the first time you went into combat and you don't have to tell us where it was, what happened. But I'd love to know what the man in you was thinking. Was it just excitement? Was it aggression? Was it again, muted efficiency come to the top? And were you really do DBS, were you in a state of law?

So I remember my first combat experience. I remember everything I did in the Special Forces, every damn thing. So what happened?

So when I went into combat, the first time I was taken after my probation, blah, blah, blah, got selected, became, you know, got into the lowest rung of the Special Forces team that was operating and.

I was sitting on top of a mountain. And we were supposed to go down into into a place into a very deep ravine with a very, very, very jagged terrain and.

We had to hold ground on top and we had to go down and do what we had come there to do, so I was supposed to sit with the radio set and listen to what my team commander told me.

I think one of the very, very, very, very, very experienced and very balanced person in combat. So he told me that, you know, Jacob, you do one thing.

You you know, you do this radio set that you have. You sit right there on top of that mountain.

And he was also sitting, you know, some distance away from me on top of that mountain. He was controlling the entire combat operation going on that he was watching and controlling and getting food from all the all the squads which are out there.

And I was also sitting and he was sitting about maybe 20, 30 meters in the forest on the other side. And he told me, you listen to the cricket match, you listen and learn the story and keep sitting there. See what happens. So I was sitting and waiting. And then the two squads which are going down for the hit, they are passing by just next to me. Yeah, they were going down. Six and six, so they were going down and I saw the last I was watching them go down and I knew fucking they are going for combat right now.

They are going to experience right now and. The last guy was going and I just told my buddy, I'm also going, bye bye. And and I went down behind the last guy. So I went down, down, down, down and reached the point of where the contact was supposed to happen.

So I reached there and I informed my team commander that, sir, I'm here now. So he said, OK. Obviously, there is no extracting me back from there now because the contact is going to happen now, right. So he let it be. It was my choice. So and then first, our first contact. First it that's how I experienced it, I chose it when the bullets started flying in, the bombs are exploding. What was in your head?

Years of training?

No, no. Pure instinct. Pure instinct. It's pure instinct. Your body just works.

Yeah. See, what happens is, like I said, they're breaking it down, yet they're training you as well.

So, for example, like so naturally, I was a good marksman. I was like pretty good with a weapon from childhood. Like my fathers taught me. I've been cleaning, cleaning various kinds of weapons, opening them up, cleaning them up, using them, etc. from a child like from class to three. I've been handling pistols and things like that, filling in ammunition and things like that at home on our dining table or not.

So I had a lot of experience with weapons and if you want to call it DNA or whatever.

So my father was like a national shot. He could write his name with a pistol.

Yeah. And so that experience was there probably in my DNA or whatever.

And then I ended up in nine Special Forces.

And then, you know, when I entered that gate, like I said, they straight away took us to the armory where the weapons are kept.

And they opened the gates of the armory and said, you know, pick up your weapons. And the whole light weapons are no dummy weapons, all light weapons. And they told us that these weapons are going to stay with you.

For as long as you are here in this battalion and once you clear your selection, then you can, you know, there are other things that you can be exposed to. But this is your baby. This is part of your body. It doesn't go away from you. So and then. So then you are handed. That's the first thing that happened to me.

They gave me a bloody AK 47, like they gave in to open it up and I chose an AK 47. Now, I had a certain understanding of weapons or weapons, so I chose a particular weapon. That weapon for six months was stuck to my body.

Well, if I was eating, it was on my lap, if I was rolling, it was between my knees. If I was sleeping, it was tied to me. If I was shitting, I was I was holding it.

And it was constantly six months that that body with that weapon became a part of my body.

It was like with me stuck with me, because if if it separates from you, the whole unit is waiting for that weapon to separate from you. They'll try to they'll break you down so much that you get confused and you lose the weapon for a minute, two minutes.

If it's away from you, they'll take out the moving parts and you will not even realize that the firing pin is gone.

You realize that when you go for fighting in you and no bullet comes out, the firing pin is gone. And if that goes, you are gone.

You're you're told to leave, given some beer, drink beer, happy. No, no, no hard feelings and bye bye, buddy.

You know, so it's like that because of six months.

That damn thing was with me. It became so. So much of a part of my body that wherever I would point my finger, the damn bullet would go there only more so in the first contact.

It's a flesh most contact sort of flesh, right. There is no intense, prolonged battles going on. We don't want to get into prolonged battles and. All right, we want to just go there and finish it off.

Going head smashed out. Right. So when that first contact happened, it was an instinct, instinct, Seetha, to talk. It was like that.

There was no you know, she's lying and we will forsight backside and whatnot, and we will take a deep breath and this, that and pull trigger slightly and all that. It's not like that is just like that. It finishes like that.

Efficiency comes to the fore.

Yes.

Is muscle memory my confidence coupled with muscle memory.

So if you take sports shooters, right. People who who are shooting for sport.

Right.

Air pistols, rifles, big board, etc., whatever it is, even like skeet and trap or whatever that you are into, what happens is that you are capable of a human body and the human mind is capable of photocopying each and every action.

Its capable of that. Right. And these are very controlled environments. The is on. There is no sound, nobody's disturbing you.

You are the right temperature, you have eaten the right kind of food, you've slept well, etc. etc. etc. etc. so that when you go into and you're able to repeat the same.

Ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten like that.

Right. Combat is not like that.

So uh, you are in combat. It's all chaos.

So in that entire chaos, if you can, you know, in that one flash you have to hit a bloody Denman because if you don't hit a ten, that is going to take ten bullets is going to come towards you. The bust will come. There are no single bullet coming towards.

You'll come like a fucking wave boom like that third rail come like that. And so you don't want that happening, right.

So instinctively you reach that level of, uh, survival and exploration where you are.

You go, it's one shot. One shot is a ten. Yeah. Are you are you allowed to speak of the most difficult mission you are to face to your tennyo just a bit of it.

Like, oh, what you found, you know, to be challenging.

Yeah, only one. And I'll tell you what was challenging about it, but, uh.

I enjoyed my life in the special forces, constantly evolving, constantly at the cutting edge, and every combat situation is new. Yeah, yeah.

Something like for every day, every every day, you know, the circumstances are different. The people you meet are different.

Things that happen to you are different, the different food that you eat, etc., etc. There's variety in life.

Similarly, in combat there is no combat situation is the same. None, none whatsoever.

And in my case, what I got to experience was I've never like. Had the good fortune of sitting and waiting and in a perfect situation where you just go and it's over, it's never happened like that with me.

What has happened with me is that I have reached a certain place which there. And.

Then things have played like all my contacts that I've had are moving contacts, moving flashes, finished, finished, like that prolonged battle.

As like very few, few, few times where something prolonged into something and it's like so the most challenging thing I ever found was when one of my guys got injured.

But that was the comments I've ever been.

I was able to extract that man from that, it was when I say I, I mean, my team, we were very small team, very few guys heavily laden with combat gear and all the things that you need in various kinds of situations that may come up during combat.

You're not going to get a chance to go home. And, oh, I forgot this. I'll get that happening, brother.

So what does happen is that you have years and years of experience and experience and experience and experience at that point where you've been able to calculate every damn thing and reset situation as prepared as you can be in equipment, in training, in mindset and experience and et cetera, all of that crunched into that, you know, four or five minutes or one, two minutes or whatever.

So we were in a very, very, very, very, very difficult place.

And guys, like, blew up and.

Yeah, it was like I was looking at that guy and I was thinking, no, he's dead, he's going to die right in front of my eyes.

And that we were like, we are like brothers because in combat, you know, like I said, there is no there is no major captain, colonel, brigadier, all that doesn't exist there.

What exists only that exists in combat is love. Is love.

Yes, yes, yes. I love my men. I love them. I still love only love can penetrate like that. Nothing else. Only love can be that efficient.

So it's that love which forms after trust. Trust comes before love. So then the love comes and then that with that love vibration you can fucking penetrate anything. So at that point of time I was seeing this guy and what a guy man, what a guy like is is like ankle below was gone.

There was space there and then his is his one foot which had basically blown up. There was only one bone. There's the bone of the longest two, you know, that was just there was no flesh on it, it was just a bone. And we had broken in like a hook and there was nothing else there. And this guy was like he had his hands behind his back like this, we extracted him in five minutes, five minutes and formed a protective circle around him and we were like pumping him with morphine.

We're pumping him. I put an I.V. put in tetanus. We'd like, you know, bandage the wound. He was spurting blood like like, you know, like a machine.

Every time it would pump it would spray blood like that.

And, uh, within five minutes, we had, like, sorted him out. We had brought the blood down to a trickle and we administered whatever was needed to be done.

There was no doctor there. It was just us.

So we were we are trained to be able to handle something like that. And then it goes into instinct and only love can actually get something out like that.

So that guy had such fucking balls on him.

He was he was like this and he was just looking at his foot like that, just looking he wasn't saying anything. And I was just looking at this guy starts screaming right now because he's staring death in the face.

He's he's so calm. He knows he's going to die and he knows it so well.

You are doing that. I was looking at him.

What is he going to do? When is he going to start screaming? He did not scream, so while we are doing it and then there was a little piece piece of his heel which was hanging off, so we were trying to put it back on the bone and then trying to bind it up because it will be needed later when he gets and gets it become a stump so the stump can take the prosthetic. Right. So we were just putting that heel back so that he has some cushioning and later on in life.

And he was just looking like that. And that's when he opened his mouth and said that.

Is Go-Kart giving the.

So basically, just chop it off and throw it away, Stuart, whatever you're doing, stolen and just did what we had to do and at that point of time, you know, so at that point, we had it had taken us like 48 hours to reach there down down a jagged mountain, yet fixed ropes and whatnot to reach them, but then to fucking pull him out from there. It is it has taken us two nights of climbing down and this guy is going to die very, very soon.

He knows that there is no way there is no way humanly possible for him to reach to reach a reach medical attention, the kind of emergency medical attention he requires right now.

But we did it. There's a guy was when we were like laden with I was getting all 33 packages as a as a team commander. Right. Imagine what all of us were carrying. And when we started, like, we did not go like this, like that or something just straight away like that.

We went like that like a fucking rocket that just fucking picked them up, surrounded them. There's a guy who there was a guy on my team, a very young guy, and he's used like a big man.

And he was new, relatively new. And it was like first combat experience and all.

That's what I'm talking about, love.

So he just lifted that guy on his back, right. Lifted that guy on his back and said, I'll climb.

And we needed that.

We needed that at that point because various reasons, blood flow, blah, blah, blah. And there's probably enemies around.

Yeah, obviously. Yeah, there are enemies around and they know what's up. So they are hunting, you know, so you have to get out, not because you are afraid or anything of contact, of combat.

That's what you've come here for. Like bring them on man.

We were fucking like that buddy. You know, six of us. If we were at that stage, if you got surrounded and we got surrounded by whoever we got surrounded, it would take them one year to kill us one year unless they bloody bombed the area that that level.

So when this guy picked them up and all this, let's call him eight.

So they picked up the guy who got blown off his leg. This guy started saying, no, no, no, put me down.

I'll walk and go. I'll walk.

And that's what he was saying. His leg is gone like his ankle below gone, and he's saying that, no, no, you put me down, I'll walk and go. I'll carry my weapon. He was getting his I.V. bottle in one hand in which he was getting IV fluid inside his body and he was getting his weapon. He was saying, no, I'll walk.

So I had to tell him, my brother please climb on his back.

So he just he said, OK, OK, let it go.

So he climbed on his back and we were going and there was this huge rock in that ngala where this guy put his foot on to climb up and that huge rock like roll rolled onto his shinbone and he just sat down and and the guy who was carrying the other fellow, he just sat down, got his foot like this and like about 30, 40 seconds he was like this. And then he got up and told me to climb again. And then we started climbing and climbing and climbing and climbing and climbing and climbing and and we had him extracted by three, 30 a.m. in the morning.

I had him on the fucking alapana. And he was out, he was out and then, you know, whatever. So that was pretty intense. Yeah.

So that particular situation, like it was so much of intense, hard work and planning and guts and balls and fucking whatnot had gone into being there at that point of time.

And, uh. It was a long planned days and days of stretch there in that position and.

And on the fifth day in the morning, I started getting a feeling of dread the first time I felt dread in combat. I've never felt dread or fear or anything.

Just there's no mindspace for all of that. You are in combat and you start feeling fear. You're not going to get out of your life. And it's a natural body instinct, you know, fight or flight. So you're in the fight mode.

So at that point of time, on that fifth day and we had a long stretch ahead of us on that fifth day. In the morning, and I was just thinking, and this dread started building, building, building, building, building, building, building, and by around nine, thirty, ten o'clock in the morning, I wanted to get out from there.

I want to believe that.

And I just kept thinking, you know, in 12 years, this is the first time I want to leave combat.

I don't want to be here.

I want to get out. Why so stinking? Trying to use my mind to understand what am I feeling? So it was so fucking intense that you can't ignore it. You can't suppress it. That kind of dread was coming in.

So I was thinking, why is this how it had never happened to me before, before all the intrusions I had was that like something is going to happen and I've gone in to take it right. But this was I wanted to get out, so I was thinking why?

So I was thinking, you know, maybe, maybe what do I want to get back to?

I want to get back up there where there'll be a warm blanket and there'll be some rum to drink and there'll be some chicken to eat and all of that starling and all of that. Right. So I was thinking maybe I've become lazy, I've become lazy in my head. I spent so much time in this thing and now I'm becoming becoming like the other guys who left because they couldn't handle it anymore. So I've become like that. I'm becoming lazy.

That's why I want to go. So I told them fucking no way, I'm not going back for that reason. So I stayed put.

But the dread kept becoming bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

And that's the first time I smoked in combat. I couldn't help it. I just I just pulled out a fucking cigarette to suppress that dreaded had reached such a bloody level. I just and I. You can't tell that to the other guy sitting around you. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're leading them.

So it was just I was processing inside and thinking, thinking and I think by around around four thirty in the evening I was like.

I pressed my radio set button and I was going to tell the other guys, we were like two squads out, right? I was going to tell the other squad extract.

Get up, come to me and we'll get out from here as I press the switch and I was going to pass. And I left it, I decided at that point, no, I'll see this through. I'm not going from here because I couldn't understand why I want to get out. So I just crushed that feeling of wanting to get out and I stayed put and around like 20, 25 minutes later, boom. And then like five minutes of radio silence.

So I knew some shit has gone bad, various permutations, combinations came in my head.

There were people in my own squad, guys telling me, you know, open the radio, ask them what, what, what, what, what happened. What happened was selling. I knew shit hit the fan. Like who?

The guy who was leading that scored like I was leading to the guy who was leading that scored. That's my team. So waiting for him. Five minutes I waited, sitting on the radio waiting for him because I knew he's in chaos right now.

He's in fucking chaos right now. And the last thing you fucking need to hear from me is what the fuck is going on?

He'll fucking handle it. That's what he's been trained for, and at the end of the day, you know, either God is working with us or not. We'll find out what we'll see. So five minutes, I just.

Waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. And he came on the radio and told me shit, hit the fan. Guys blown his leg. So then. You cannot lose another guy because you will not be able to extract, because then the Lord will become too heavy. So you cannot have another casualty trying to extract another casualty, so we did certain things after that at that point of time, and that was a situation that you are not what you see it experience it so that that hard that confidence and love and the skill set and your experiences.

All of that comes together, gives you fucking clarity like nobody's business, and with that clarity, you are able to go in and then face what is there. And in that particular case.

We were able to successfully extract the guy. Yeah, yeah, when I talked to someone from the army, like the two things that really stick out for me are leadership and brotherhood.

You know, you got a sense of love and that's what actually triggered this whole situation, even within your mind.

So what have you learned about leadership?

So through that and your and I'd also love to ask you that you said that while there's no hierarchy in combat, I'm sure that through the course of multiple combat situations, some people come out as the leaders.

So how are they collectively chosen? Who's chosen as that guy? Who says that?

OK, here's what we'll do until you create the listening ability.

I'll tell you. So what did it teach me or leadership? Is that what you asked me?

Yes. Leadership is about responsibility. It's about the man who can take on that responsibility, so simple as that. It starts with that, right? So. There is pre combat, there is combat, there is no post combat, post combat is only analysis of all the shit that you have done. But pre combat is preparation for combat and then there is combat.

Both required extreme amount of leadership skills because your life is your life. And I say my life means my team, my team, my life.

Right is is dependent on me and, you know, are wearing some funny ranks and all that.

So that is supposed to be placing you in a position of responsibility. But in a way, it is easy to lead a special forces team because all of them are bad motherfucker, you know, the fucking good. So and they all love no, that's only that's the only way you can survive there if you love each other only that's the way otherwise you will fail. And if you fail, you will pay the price in blood. So it's like that.

So leadership is a responsibility. Simple as that. Those people who can take on that kind of responsibility are natural leaders there in the vibration of leadership, if you want to call it right.

But you're also constantly following things also at that point of time.

But you're calling the shots that ultimately you are listening, following, thinking, analyzing all of that thinking going on, and then you're calling the shots.

This is what they're going to do. Right. So you have to trust, so leadership is about responsibility, being able to take on responsibility and being able to fucking trust yourself to take on the responsibility. Right.

It's not that, you know, you lose some money or, you know, you break some friendship or some shit like that, you'll fucking die if you die. It's all well and good. Your mind is over.

But then and then the rest of the guys, somebody else dies. You are going to sit here and watch his children weep and his children go through various things and, you know, you'll miss him and things like that and you will judge yourself. Why? Why? It's all those things, you know.

So during combat, combat is like like a purifications.

Like titration, you know, only.

Only those who can lead, who have got all it takes to lead at that point of time when chaos has hit, you smashed you smashed everything that you had planned and just smashes into you girls begins at that point of time. You can you have to be bigger than that chaos. And the only thing that is bigger than that fucking chaos is your is the fucking trust you have in yourself and all the bloody all that life has put you through.

And then finally being able to throw it all in that moment be more chaotic than fucking chaos.

And that's what I'm going to get you through.

So at that point of time, especially like in combat and all like within don't ranks and all those things.

So we don't wear ranks. We don't wear if you see like if you'd seen me in combat, you would like you'd be confused who the fuck am I right. Like that.

So. To give you an example, so when I was very young, when I when I when I was very young in combat, at that point of time, we were penetrating into a place.

Heavily invested, heavily invested, and we were penetrating deep inside. To hit some particular target, and we were on the side of a mountain and we were going on the mountain track like that at night, must have been around. Eight thirty nine nine nine thirty at night and. There was no it was a naked mountain, basically, there was no undergrowth, no trees, no cover, no rock, nothing.

It was just grass like that and like that. And we were going like this, the whole team, the whole team in which I was like a new guy and, uh.

You know, Special Forces guys can be pretty ruthless if you interact with them, they will ridicule you, they will make fun or whatever, you know, it's like that depending on the kind of personality are coming across.

Right. And the soldiers and all, they will not give you your respect because you just fighting a lieutenant or a captain or whatever it is that you are, they will give you respect when they respect you. It's like that when they fuck in their heart full respect for you. That is when they will respect you. Otherwise they will not respect you.

And in combat, respect is a is the most, most most important tool to be executed, to be able to execute that combat situation, that chaotic motherfucking situation with precise efficiency, because respect will keep everything together and love in a slightly higher format.

But love takes time, right?

So when we were going down up that side of that mountain like that, there was a huge like like Nahlah below us. And then there was the other mountain on the right side and.

Suddenly, a whole like machine gun fire started on us, accurate machine gunfire like you have to like here to experience it to understand what how chaos comes out of the darkness.

Boom. Accurate fucking believe this big motherfucking bullets coming at you, bouncing off all of the motherfucking place at night. So the whole team.

Whole team. I was in the lead group and the whole team went down.

Whole team went down into the ground.

And there was like there was no space to hide. There was no space to hide.

But you're like you just find that fucking space man, like, you know, the fucking centimeter will get into it. Right.

And I was just it had just started and I was just looking I will also down.

All of us were down. I just looked I had two, three guys ahead of me and I look behind whatever where I could see.

I could I could see whole column down and it just started like two seconds into combat. Right. Two seconds into being ambushed. We were ambushed. So two seconds into that.

And I just thought at that point of time that the man who stands now and returns fire, he's the leader.

The man who stands now stands now in that fucking hail of fucking machine gunfire, who stands now and fucking gives it back, because that's the only way you can stop that.

Otherwise, they'll keep fucking there more and less ammunition and soon know rocket launchers will come and soon a lot of other shit is going to follow.

Right. So the man who stands now is the fucking leader of this group. So I stood up and I started fucking fighting back, and as I was fighting back and I started seeing people started standing and fucking fighting back, giving fucking shit back, and that's how we control that situation. Yeah, that's leadership, so you got to earn the respect there's no earning and all that, it is just who you are, as simple as that. You don't have to earn respect.

You don't have to do anything but be yourself.

If that's what chaos hits around you, if you can center in the more chaos, the more centered, the more efficient, the more chances of getting out alive with everyone, all the people you love, you can get all of them out.

It's like that.

So you also told me this other really intense thing for me, which is that in all your missions, you've not seen casualties to the extent where, you know, I don't think you've taken a bullet yourself.

If not, how did you not think? Nothing.

Has there been a hand of God over your head? Or is it is it training, is it good leadership, is it being aware it's a choice?

Ultimately, it's a choice and it's a choice you make and the circumstances will be as such, but you will be tested rather than be tested.

What do you mean so? So, like I said, there is no, you know, easy combat situation that I was like. I had the good fortune to experience, but I would just be, you know, things would just happen and just press the fucking trigger and it's all over and we just collect what we have come to collect and move on. It's never been like that.

All chaos has hit every fucking time. Chaos has hit right all the way until the point of penetration to the point of fucking contact.

Smooth, hot knife through butter. Right.

But at that point, explosion, contact, chaos, chaos, chaos.

Right through that chaos.

Never lost a guy. Never got hit, no one no one got hit ever in nine and a half years, right.

And the first time like when like this situation with this guy blew up his leg.

That's the point, was the only mistake or you want to call it whatever you want to call it is perception. But yeah, that's it. That was it.

So, yes, never taken a bullet enough of bullets fired at me.

I have a fucking weapon shoved in my face. I got a fucking I've been surrounded by enemy. I open my hands like this and looked at him in the fucking eye. And that's okay. I've killed for like you. Okay, kill me. Fuck off. Right. And then look beyond what is there to see. What is there now. To see it, there is nothing to see it and experience it, like my whole life flashed in front of all three times, it has happened the whole life.

All life is like a photo album, you know, you have in your hand and you go like that all your life, entire life in photographs, each photograph having channels of videos, all life flash like that. It's a flash. It's beyond time.

There is no time. It doesn't happen in a microsecond or one second or ten seconds or whatever, just happens.

So, yes, there have been a lot of out-of-control chaos which has come like that. Come suddenly, come without warning. And got out of a it and safe. So the last one, well, guys, sorry we had to cut the conversation at that, but there is a part two to this conversation that's coming up very, very soon. More of this legend's mindset, more of this legend stories, and that part two of this conversation is going to be about what Mijovic, Jacob, is up to at this stage of his life, some very special word that this man and his team are doing in the world.

I hope you enjoy part two just as much.