Hey, it's Payne, and I'm here to tell you that we're back with a brand new season of Up and Vanished, called Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun, available right now on your podcast app. In this newest season of Up and Vanished, I'm investigating an unsolved missing person's case in Nome, Alaska, on the edge of the Arctic Circle. Florence Okpiolik, an Alaska native, was last seen on August 31st, 2020. And I've spent the last year in Alaska trying to find what happened to her, putting myself in the most dangerous positions I've ever been in. You don't want to miss this brand new season of Up and Vanished. It is by far the most intense investigation I've ever been a part of.

Here's a trailer.

She was murdered, taken out on the tundra and dumped somewhere. There's no way they'd say something like that if they didn't know what happened.

Somebody's being hurt or taken advantage of.

You don't just look the other way. Stay on the phone with you, please.

Did you have a license for this vehicle? There's a truck that's following you guys. We heard gunshots. Where were the gunshots at? If you think you're investigating a murder scene, things have to be documented. We don't know who to trust.

From Tenderfoot TV, Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun, is available right now.

Listen for free on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

The Raven is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free. But if you want ad-free listening and early access to next week's episode, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus. For more information, check out tenderfootplus. Com. Enjoy the episode. You're listening to The Raven, a production of Tenderfoot TV, in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Let's try this number. Just an email there, too. Hi, is this Kwame? Yes. Hey, Kwame. My name is Tim Livingston. I'm a podcaster doing a story on the Atlanta Double Homicide from 2000. I'm sure this is not the call you're expecting today. Want to see if you had a few to talk. I've spent the last week trying to connect with members of Ray Louis' group. I haven't had any luck until now. Louis' high school friend, Kwame King, picked up my call.

That was a horrible event, man. And I'm not really going to get into it. But the one thing I took away from it is that I watched Ray go on trial, and he didn't touch anybody. I was just flabbergasted that something like that could even happen. So this belief is the only thing I can remember about that incident, man. I just didn't think that the wheels of justice turned like that.

Quamin doesn't want to talk and tries to end the call, but I'm able to keep him on for another minute.

I guess God intervened and gave him success afterwards. But man, one thing I would never tell. I don't want to really get into it, but the biggest thing I took away from that is that, man, people put you on trial knowing that you're interested. And I just wouldn't have believed it until I actually saw it.

I appreciate it, Kwame. And just to clarify one last time, you contend that Ray Louis was not involved in the fight?

I think everybody who was close to the fight knows that Ray Louis wasn't involved in anything, man. He didn't touch anybody, man. He didn't touch anybody. And everybody who was involved in that situation or saw the situation, they knew that he didn't touch anybody, but that didn't keep them from putting through that. The only thing that I will say is, man, that Ray didn't touch anybody, man. In that altercation, never was there a moment where he touched anybody.

From Tenderfoot TV, I'm Tim Livingston, and this is The Raven. Episode 7, My Side of the Story.

During this time, did you take part in this incident? Never. You've heard the testimony from Jeff Gwyn? Yes. And you indicated that he saw you holding someone. Never. Is that true? Never. You heard the testimony of Mr. Foster, and that's your limousine driver. And he testified that he saw you draw your fist back. No. The testimony also was from Evelyn Sparks that she saw you pull someone away. Did that happen? No. That did not happen? No.

In 2000, Ray Louis had to deny that he was part of the fight. Until this day, he's maintained that narrative.

My entire career, high school, Little League, and pros, I've been in one fight in my life past 13 years old. Saddest thing about this story is that they still don't know who killed those two kids.

Louis's guilt, by definition of George's party to a crime law, was to be determined by whether or not he was involved in the fight that killed Richard Lawler and Jason Baker, but was sending Louis to jail for life, an inappropriate punishment.

The only fault that I had throughout that whole ordeal is that I was not man enough or mature enough to tell people that I was hanging out with, Me and you ain't on the same ride. That's the only thing I've ever been guilty of.

Louis told that he partied with a group of friends, acquaintances, and strangers on January 31st, 2000, and that his biggest takeaway from Atlanta was that he needed to choose better friends. We've been trying to connect with everyone in the limo that night, especially Carlos Stafford.

Had you met Carlos before? No. Was there anyone else with Carlos? I think Gino and Claudius, some guys like that, but I never seen them that night, really. Had you met them before? No.

Prosecutors never charged Carlos Stafford with a crime. It's unclear how many meetings they had with him or if Stafford ever told them anything of value. We have yet to connect with Stafford, but we want to because according to Louis' testimony, Stafford was party to the crime.

Carlos was running up from the direction of the limo. As he got up to the limo, Oakley was hitting him across the chest like this, and Carlos was kicking him. Carlos was kicking him? Yeah.

When we started, there was very little public information about this case. We started from scratch. We've yet to meaningfully connect with any of Louis' group, but I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what happened the morning after Super Bowl 34. As they were leaving the cobalt lounge, Louis held back a belligerent Reginald Oakley and apologized for Oakley's behavior. The linebacker did not want to fight that night, but at least one, likely two guys in his group, did. They were angry. They bought knives, and somewhere in the back of their minds, they knew if they saw the guys from Ohio again, they might use them. And those two guys walked free. Reginald Oakley painted the picture that he was wealthy and successful to get in with Ray Louis. But in reality, I don't think that Oakley had much money, and And I think seeing Jeff Gwen's friends, draped in expensive coats and chains, triggered something inside of him.

Actually, I haven't been back to this area since that incident happened. This is the first time Reginald Oakley has talked on camera about that night. Oakley has written a book which we find he's eager to sell. From my point of view, I think it was self-defense.

Oakley disappeared from social media in 2018, and his lawyer, Bruce Harvey, told me that Oakley passed away. We've tried countless numbers and haven't been able to reach him. But Oakley did talk about the murders publicly once back in 2013 when he said this on Anderson Cooper, 360.

If you end up with stab wounds, what does that mean? Somebody stabbed you. Right. But you're saying you weren't the one that stabbed him? Correct. So who could have stabbed him? You have to read the book and find out if I knew or not. Are you saying you know who Did it? You have to read the book and find out. There are a lot of people who think you got away with murder, basically. Well, that's why I wrote the book, to clear for all that. You know everyone watching that's going to think this is a really weird answer. No, it's not. I think it's an appropriate answer.

I've read Oakley's book, and it doesn't provide any new information about the murders. While it's certainly possible that Oakley killed Baker, remember that Detective Allen thought Sweeding might have killed both victims. Oakley's lawyer, Bruce Harvey, also pointed the finger at Sweeding. Who did the actual killings? Sweeding. No doubt in my mind.

I know that Sweeding had the serrated knife, and I think my cross examination of the medical examiner talked about the ridges when you stab somebody and you can see ridge marks if the knife is serrated. You don't see much if there's no serration on the knife. It's a very clean cut. Anyhow, none of the knives were associated with Reginald at all. Anything that Reginald may have had wasn't the instrument that caused any injuries to anybody.

In fact, he was the guy that was injured. Sweeding turned down our request for an interview, but I think it's almost certain that he killed Richard Lawlor, and I believe there's a 50/50 chance that Sweeding also killed Jason Th Baker. But even if Sweeding was responsible for both of the stabbings, Oakley is still culpable. He started this whole thing. Remove Reginald Basically, from the story, nobody dies. And that is how party to the crime should work. But party to the crime, in the case of Ray Louis?

Was Ray involved in the fighting? In my opinion, yes. I don't know if he was wrestling or fighting, but I know he was right in the mix there with everybody else.

Because his lawyer and his side have always said, Hey, he was trying to be the peacermaker in that situation.

I didn't see that. When the police asked him what happened, he wouldn't come clean.

Louis should not have been charged with murder, but I'm not sure if he's been entirely truthful when it comes to his actions. Louis told Dan Patrick that his obstruction charge was for claiming that he didn't know the full names of everyone in his limo. But that's not entirely true.

I said, No, I do not know everybody's names in the limo. That's what I was found guilty of.

That's the obstruction of justice.

That's the obstruction of justice.

Louis knew at least seven of the limo's patrons, but gave Lieutenant Mike Smith only two names, and both of those names were aliases. And then there's the question of the suit Louis wore that night, which infamously disappeared. But the white suit Ray Louis was wearing that night has never been found.

Prosecutors suspected it was stained in the victim's blood and that someone took the knives and suit and threw them all away.

Louis withheld information, and the suit, if it had blood on it, might have proved that Louis was involved in the fight. But the suit disappeared, and police believed it was discarded by Louis' date that evening. Jessica Robertson. Hi, is Jessica there?

Yes, this is she.

A few nights prior to the Super Bowl, Louis met Jessica at a party thrown by Magic Johnson. According to another patron of Louis' limo, Jessica burned the only photo of the group from that night, a photo that allegedly showed Louis wearing the cream-colored suit. The prosecution alleged that Jessica threw Louis' suit in the dumpster of a fast food restaurant. Getting Jessica to talk would be a huge coup for our investigation. But after telling her about the project, I'm met with heavy skepticism.

When you say you're trying to solve the case, what do you mean solve the case? I thought it was already Solved?

Yeah. There were a lot of questions. I don't know. Did you follow the case closely? I assume so.

You said it was a lot of questions as far as what?

I bring up what I believe are unanswered questions in this story, and Jessica meets them with a long pause. She deflects and attempts to make me feel foolish for investigating a case that's already been resolved. I would love to hear your story. Everybody's been quiet about this for a long time. Would love to hear your experience on that night.

Give me a minute to think about, take everything you said, and I'll give you a call I never reconnected with Jessica.

But I think it's important to note that blood on Louis' suit doesn't mean that there was blood on his hands.

That there's blood in the limo. Easy when somebody get busses in the head with bottles.

The only thing that matters in this story is intent. Who started it? Reginald Oakley started the fight. Lieutenant Mike Smith started the circus. Louis' missing suit could be evidence that he was in the fight. But Lieutenant Smith prematurely arresting Louis and charging him with murder is the biggest reason the victim's families didn't receive justice. It's hard to put into words how misguided that decision was. And the more you talk with Smith, the more you understand the man who made that decision.

I testified during the trial because I arrested Ray Louis. As far as what He had been watching everything Paul did, they took the investigation. I didn't have any more responsibility for it, so I really didn't care.

Two murders in his city. Smith arrests Louis, then stops caring. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people came to Atlanta for the Super Bowl. Smith had one detective on duty the morning after the game. One. He had junior crime scene techs on assignment, he wasn't ready to handle a homicide. And when Louis was implicated, he wasn't ready to conduct a real investigation. So he threw handcuffs on Louis, charged him with murder, and forced the linebacker to play defense. And when it came to playing defense, Louis and his team did that quite well. If you were Louis and facing a life sentence, if the cops didn't even let you tell your side of the story, what would you do? How far would you go to live the rest of your life outside a prison? I'm a good listener.

They see me as an oculous or, you know.

Look at this one. I just got this one. Isn't that cute? She looks so big already. I know. I'm not even two. I'm sitting with Ninning Moran, Diana Moran's mother, at her kitchen table in Santa Monica. Diana was my friend who was stabbed and killed in high school, and sitting here brings back a lot of memories. Diana's laugh, the tiny room she shared with her sister, taking shots of Picardi for the first time, and how that ended. I'm proudly showing Ninning pictures of my daughter, which I do now every time I come over. Ninning doesn't have email and still has a flip phone. She would tell you she's old school, but I think not adapting to modern technology is how Ninning makes time stand still. The last day of Diana's life was November 17th, 2001. And I know that part of Nini is still there, reliving that day over and over again. I think you've always made a great effort to keep all of Diana's friends close. Does that help keep alive?

Well, I think I owe it to her friends because they weren't as strong as her.

A lot of them weren't as strong as her.

I want them to think that I pay attention. I want to know if they're okay, if you have children, that I'm replacing her in a different way that I want to know about what they're doing, right?

I spent almost every weekend at in his house before she died. I rarely went back after she was stabbed. It was too hard to process. Diana's killer, Katrina Sarkisian, committed suicide the morning after killing Diana. Two girls died for nothing, died over broken pots. To move on from Deanna, I had to run. I ran from everything. And I've gotten older and realized that I've never stopped running. The sprint that I've been on has brought me a lot of good things, but it's also meant that I can never stop to process what happened to Deanna. And the time, it was foggy and dark, and she was backed up against a tree.

She was backed up against a tree, and you can't just run away. And she wouldn't run away anyway. So her My last statement was, I don't know if you know that, right? Do you know her last statement?

Was, just listen to my side of the story. It feels good to be close to Ninning, to be close to Diana, and remind myself over and over again. I don't have to run.

Sometimes you may find yourself in the wrong place simply at the wrong time. And you got a better chance to get yourself in trouble if you find yourself around the wrong crowd and in the wrong place at the wrong time. So maybe what I went through actually saved my life. How so? Because of how comfortable I was with just thinking I was just a normal joke. And the harsh reality is I'm not.

Ray Lewis sat down with journalist Graham Benzinger a few years back and talked about his experience in Atlanta.

Because of the media outlets, all these different things that exposes us in a whole nother light. You can't do the normal things that you want to do, even if you thought you can get away with it. Do you question yourself? Absolutely. But when you find time by yourself, spend 15 days in jail, God said, Can you hear me now? So when you go through things like that, you have to be very careful. And my only cry or plea is the saddest thing in the world, in the world, is to be falsely accused. That hurts.

Louis reached financial settlements with both of the victim's families. Benzinger asked him about those deals, and this was Louis' response.

So when I got to that table, it was more of a release for me to even look into the family's eyes, man, and say, Take it for what it's worth. I was born to help. I'm the last person to hurt your child. Just know that from my heart. Deal with it how you're going to deal with it from there. Hate me? Can never speak to me a day from this. But every one of them, but both families will tell you, I looked at them out of my eye, man to man. And told him straight up. No. Violence? Hell no. So too much of it. Would I change anything? Absolutely not. Couldn't. Because now I got a glimpse of why I had to go through that.

Louis said that he wouldn't change anything. It's offensive to the victim times, but I don't think that's Louis' intention.

I realize now that some things, some pains, you have to go through. You can't go around. You can't take a detour. You I had to go through it. And if I had to go through that to be sitting right here, then so be it.

I think Ray Louis has been running from Atlanta for a long time. I don't I don't think he ever stopped to realize how many people this affected. The victims, the victim's families, his friend Dwyane Fassett and his family, the cities of Atlanta and Akron. The blood on Louis' hands isn't from Richard Lawlor or Jason Baker. It's from everyone else who all these years later just want to hear Louis tell the full story of what happened that night. Handsome.

Yo.

How are you doing?

I'm blessed, man. Can't complain. How are you feeling, brother?

Hansam and I stayed in touch after Akron. I called him regularly to give him updates on the project. Then one day, he stopped answering calls and texts.

Please leave your message for 3, 3, 2.

I tried everything to get a hold of him. I called, texted, and e-mailed every number I could find for Handsome and anyone in his immediate family. But I haven't been able to get a hold of him for months. The last time we spoke was shortly after I interviewed Clint Rucker. Look, after talking with the DA, the same DAs, Paul Howard and Clint Rucker, the same guys who were there in 2000, they'd been there for 20 years. Paul Howard just lost this most recent election. I told Handsome about the facet tape and explained to him that Paul Howard and Clint Rucker remained in office for over 20 years after the Super Bowl murders. Meaning if we tried to make this podcast anytime between 2000 and 2020, Clint Rucker would have not interviewed with us, and the world would likely have never found out about FASET's original statement. It's hard to talk about because it's such... It helps this project and this revelation gives your family what it needs to understand what happened from a prosecutorial standpoint. Howard, there's a series of simple steps that he needs to do to get the limo driver's audio testimony that tape introduced the jury, and he somehow didn't do it.

Right.

Because I think if this gets played- The case is over with. Yeah.

I mean, it's done deal. This is the key. This is the high key witness, the limo driver. He know these people. He's a personal limo driver, so he can't get nothing mistaken. He's not drunk. He's the only person in this situation that is not drunk. You know what I'm saying? He is the key A1 witness. Whatever he says, tick. You know what I'm saying? So for him to say something like that, the case is done. They don't even need no more evidence. For real, for real shit.

I don't know if Handsome's right, if Fassett's original statement would have made this a slam-dunk case for the prosecution. But I know that it felt good to get Handsome some answers. And I hope that this is just the beginning. I hope Louis will hear this and agree that it's finally time to tell his story, to tell the world about that tragic night in Atlanta from beginning to end. Yeah, I hope Richard's looking down right now smiling.

Oh, for sure, man. You know he is, man. What's the odds of that? Everything just come in and playing so perfect. That's crazy.

The Raven is a production of Tenderfoot TV and Journeyman, in association with Odyssey. Donald Albray and Payne Lindsay, are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. I'm the executive producer on behalf of Journeyman. Alex Bespistead is our lead producer and editor on behalf of Tenderfoot Labs. Patty Cotter is our producer. Tracey Kaplan is our supervising producer. Paul Cucceri and Sydney Evans, our associate producers. Original Music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. Sound Design, Mixing and Mastering by Cooper Skinner and Daten Cole. Cover Design and Illustration by Mr. Soul. Trial archival provided by CORE TV. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and Grace Royer at UTA, Beck Media & Marketing, The Nord Group, Ninning Moran, and The Moran family, Russell Rathner, Alyssa Gonsarca, James Yu, and Todd Baines. If you enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review. For more podcasts like The Raven, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit tenderfoot. Tv. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Raven. If you want to listen to next week's episode right now, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus for early access. Tenderfoot Plus is available on Apple Podcasts or tenderfootplus. Com.