Today, we're excited to chat with Matthew Hussie, a New York Times best-selling author, speaker, and renowned relationship coach. With over half a billion views on his YouTube channel and a top-rated podcast, Matthew's practical advice on love and confidence has impacted millions worldwide. In this conversation, we'll dive deep into the secrets of all successful relationships. Now, let's dive in.

At a certain point, it becomes about deciding what we really want. What's the thing I'm trying to get? Am I trying to serve my ego in love or am I trying to serve my soul? One of the most sought-after dating and relationship experts in the world, a New York Times best-selling author, creator of the number one relationship advice YouTube channel, and over 382 million channel views, the Heart Doctor himself, Matthew Hussle.

What is a woman truly saying if they say, I don't like nice guys?

They're saying that my nervous system does not produce the effect that I call love around people who do not send it into some fight or flight response. This is not just a female pattern, this is a people pattern. Why is it that we respond to people who treat us poorly? By changing these patterns and healing these wounds, you will find yourself in a place where better and better relationships are available to you because people will start to see you. You'll start to attract a different quality of person.

If you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love that you wish you would have known then, that you know now, what would those three things be?

I think the first thing I would say is It makes me emotional as I say it because I think it does.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Matthew Hussie in the house, my man. Good to see you, brother. It's good to see you. I'm excited, This is our first ever interview in the... I don't know what I'm going to call this yet. The Greatness Basement. I don't know what this is.

The Dungeon of Greatness, something like that. I like it. It's very cozy.

Yeah, it's nice, right? Yeah. Welcome to my home and to my home studio. Very excited about this.

It's so nice to be. I always think it's funny speaking to you like this because for every one conversation we have on the air, so to speak, we have 200 off.

I know. Off. So many. We travel the world together at different things. We've been all over the place together. We've known each other for what? I don't know, eight or nine years, maybe, you think?

Yeah, long time. It must be 10, closer to 10.10 years.It's crazy.

Closer to 10.

It's fun because for me, I get to see you. I get to step back into your world where you're a master and just watch you experience you doing your thing.

You see me doing this with you every time we hang out. We're just asking each other questions and trying to understand the meaning of life and how we've ruined ourselves in previous relationships and why we put ourselves in these situations, which is what I'm excited to talk about because you've got a new book you've been working on for really 10 years since your last book. This is called Love Life: How to raise your standards, find your person, and live happily no matter what, not happily ever after, which is pretty cool. You and I are now, finally, in healthy, conscious, loving, abundant relationships that bring us a lot of joy and peace. But we went through different challenges of trying to discover who we are, how we can build ourselves up to really attract and learn how to choose the right person for us. It took us both a long time, but we did it. So congratulations.

Congratulations. Yeah, you were, of course, at my wedding with Audrey or with Audrey back at the end of last year.It was amazing.It was amazing. It was amazing, man.

Why What I want to ask you about today is, how do we become the person that we need to be to attract the right person in a relationship to become happily happy, no matter what? I think a lot of the One of the things I want to talk about today is, one, becoming the person you need to be to attract the right person. What do we need to do to become that person? However, when you become that person, you create a lot of opportunities. You start to attract a lot You have interesting people in your life when you become more of a high-value human being, when you build your confidence, when you develop clearer boundaries and values for yourself, when you're taking care of your health, when you're clear on your mission or the career you want to go after, when you're full of love and energy and passion, you start to become very attractive. You attract a lot of opportunities. It's almost like people just reach out to you and say they want to go out with you. They'll message you online. This will just start to unfold. When you really take care of self first.

So that'll be step one. How do you build yourself up to attract the ultimate person for you in your future self? And then step two, how do you, in a sea of opportunities of individuals that are now in front of you because you have developed yourself as a high-value human for a relationship, how do you know when to choose and who to choose when there could be so many great people in front of you that you might be dating or meeting? How can you actually make the choice that you know is going to be great for you for the next 10, 20, 50 years, potentially, in an intimate relationship? That's part two. Also, I want to ask you, you've coached, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of women online through your coaching program, your live events, millions in your social media, in your YouTube. I'm also curious, have you ever met women who have been in multiple relationships at the same time, who are actually happy and fulfilled with their life? I'm going to ask you that as well later. So have you ever met women who are like, I'm in an open relationship. I've got four boyfriends and one main boyfriend, and my life is amazing over a span of 5, 10, 20 years.

I don't even know if that's possible. Curious. I'm going to wait for you to answer that one. But first off, how do we become the person we need to be to attract the right person for us in love?

I want to challenge first the idea that when we become the person that we want to need to become in order to attract the love that we want, that we attract many more people. Because my experience has been that often in order to attract what you really need, You have to give something up. Often the thing that you have to give up is the attention that you have been used to. We all have our favorite way of getting attention in life.

Our thing, our trick.

Our thing, yeah. It's like our magic trick. What's our magic trick?

I got a six-pack. Let me be shirtless and post that. I make a lot of money. Let me show the money that I have in certain ways, or I'm funny. Let me be funny, or whatever it is, right?

That's exactly right. That becomes our known way of guaranteeing a certain level of attention. Different people can do it to different degrees. Some people have a very easy time getting attention. Other people have a hard time getting attention. But the principle holds across people. We have our favorite way of getting attention Like you said, for some people, it's physical. For some people, it's their sense of humor. For other people, it's their achievements in life. Whether it's their intellect or whatever, yeah. We tend to display the thing that we know guarantees us a certain level of attention. That often becomes the thing that we end up complaining about because while it works to get us attention, we often resent, in the end, the attention we're getting. I don't want people who just think that I am funny and don't really see me for who I am. That robs me of a real connection. I don't want someone who just wants me for my looks or just wants me for sex or just wants me because I earn a lot of money. We end up resenting the situation that in some way we construct for ourselves. A At a certain point, it becomes about deciding what we really want.

What's the thing I'm trying to get? Am I trying to serve my ego in love or am I trying to serve my soul? Am I trying to Am I trying to have quantity, or am I trying to have quality of connection, of love, of teamwork? What is it I'm really looking for? I think because a lot of us haven't truly decided that, we are still doing the thing that gets us the easiest or most obvious result, the one we know how to get.

We're still going broad of trying to get a lot of attention from as many people as possible, as opposed to focusing on being intentional about the type of person we want to attract.

Yeah, exactly. And by the way, the person, some people listening to this might not relate to using their magic trick to… Of course, it's not a trick. It's that that thing you're showing may be a very attractive quality that you have, but it's not all of you. And you don't necessarily want to bring someone in just on that thing because now you're engineering your love life to get just people who value that thing. And that thing might not really be you, or it might be something that is quite superficial, or it might attract very superficial people. That's interesting. Some people won't relate to going broad in the sense of, I love how much attention this thing gets me. It might be more fundamental than that, which is that I'm afraid that if I stop using this thing, I'll be invisible. They might feel like the only attention they get is for this thing. If I were to sacrifice that, I don't know if I'll ever attract anyone again. That speaks to a much braver approach that at some point we might have to take in our love life, which is laying down the weapons that we know how to use so that we can start to attract someone who sees us for who we really are, who loves us or likes us initially without all of that, who is open to a relationship.

It's like a guy who complains about always attracting people who want him for his money. Why on a first date do you keep going to five-star restaurants? Why don't you go to the family-run ramen joint down the street? The food's amazing. Why do you... Why do you... Why are you trying to press with that magic tree? Yeah, and some people will say, Well, that's because that's what I like to do. I like to go to nice restaurants, and that's fine, but you don't have to do that. You could do that every other night of the week. You don't have to do it on a first date. If you feel like you have to do it on a first date, then you have to suspect yourself. Why do I feel the need to lead with this? The same is true. If you find yourself within five Five to 10 minutes of a date, you've already slipped in some humble bragg about your career, why did you feel the need to do that? It's worth exploring. We all do it. There's no judgment. We all do it. But why did I feel the need to do that?

Why didn't I just connect with this person? There's a big difference between impressing and connecting.

What is the difference between impressing and connecting?

I think impressing is often about ego. Sometimes it comes from an insecure place. I think it comes from a place of thinking that this thing that makes me impressive is what makes me valuable. It's what makes me worthy. I want to make sure that you know that I am this thing, or I have this thing, or I've achieved this thing, or I'm capable of this thing. We lead with that. But impressing is really about us, isn't it? It's not about them. It's about us. I want you to see me in a certain way. Whereas connecting is really about them. Connecting The thing is when we genuinely... We don't just relate to someone else, but we make ourselves relatable to them. There's a book called On Writing Well by William Zinser, very famous book on Writing. It's actually a book about tips for writing non-fiction. He says that whenever he reads a writer, he often finds that in the first paragraph, it's just them trying to impress. It's just them wanting to be clever, have this very wordy, flowery, show their vocab, show this amazing sentence structure. He says, But buried three paragraphs in, he'll often find a detail or something that writer says that makes him go, Aha, a human.

He said, It lands as good writing the moment he gets that feeling of, Aha, a human. If you think about the way we connect with people, if you think all the way back to the beginning of your relationship or any date you go on, really a connection is born the moment that someone else has that moment. It's like you're speaking as... What did Christopher Hitching say? He said, Speaking is publishing in real-time. You're always publishing while you're speaking. When you're with someone and they say something, and you just almost breathe that sigh of relief of going, Oh, I get you. Oh, I've felt that before. Oh, I know what that's like. Oh, that's like how I think or feel or relate to life or the world, then we go, Aha, a human. When we feel that, we connect. Connecting takes us away from impressing.

Impressing sounds like trying to be perfect, whereas connecting sounds like trying to be real and authentic.

Yes, exactly. I think connecting comes from being real and authentic. Impressing is what we do when we go in like we have something to prove. If you approach anyone less from a place of I've got something to prove and more from a place of I want to find the human in you and I want to show the human in me. If we do that, then we're just going to enjoy each other's company That's the highest goal is that we enjoy being around each other. Not that I have some power over you by impressing you. Now you've put me on a pedestal, and now from that pedestal, I feel like I'm in control, and I can control the dynamic here because that's what so much of that is, isn't it? It's like if I'm impressive, then it gives me a sense of control. But if instead I come to connect, it's like we're really relating to each other. The The power isn't my power over you. The power of the situation is that we really enjoy spending time together. You and I are friends. The reason we love spending time together is not because we come over to each other's houses and impress each other.

It's we're friends because when we hang out, we're enjoying each other's company, and that comes from connecting. I think actually, our love lives would be served more by bringing the connection part forward. The impressing part, that will happen. All the things that are wonderful about you, don't worry.They're going to...They'll figure it out. They're going to figure it out. By the way, how much more powerful when someone figures out something that's awesome about you and you didn't scream about it, it's even more impressive. Very impressive. It's really powerful because you go, If they didn't feel the need to make that the headline, what else do I not know about this person?

It's interesting you say that because I can't remember what it was in the last a month, but Martha was like, Oh, I didn't know you did this 10 years ago. She just found out something that I did in the past. But she was like, I never knew you interviewed this person, or you did this thing, or that's really cool you did that. Just allowing someone to discover things about you, I think, is impressive that you didn't shout it at the rooftop in the beginning, the first date or something.

That doesn't mean that you have to artificially hide things either from a place of humility. If organically, certain things about your life come up, that's fine. But I think it's questioning our intention going into a situation. I think of it, look, I'm out there talking about a book right now and talking to lots of amazing people and people who on the surface are very intimidating, big shows, whether it's podcasts like yourself, whether it's TV, whatever. It's like you're in some high-stakes environments. If I go into those things thinking, I need to impress everybody here, then I'm already in danger of losing the thing that actually makes people connect with me. Because I'm trying to now be something. I'm trying to wear something and wear this badge of, Look how great I am.

I guess when someone is connecting with another person the first meeting, first date or first interaction, what is the biggest mistake they could make, you think, in pushing that person away from actually wanting to be curious about them and wanting to learn more about them? What is the biggest mistake that a guy could do and a woman can do in their first interaction of a date?

Something that I think there's a real deficit of these days is actual vulnerability. Not like there's a lot of fake vulnerability. There's a lot of people telling their hero's journey. You know what I mean? Sure. We all have one of those stories. We all have the story of when we weren't doing so well and when our back was against the wall and the odds were against us and we were in a really bad spot in life, and then we came through. But those aren't necessarily vulnerable stories because you're the hero of that story. It's like, look how hard it was and look how awesome I am that I was able to get out of that. There's no shame on doing that. It's just I don't think that that's the same thing as connecting with who you really are and what you think about. We have these very well-scripted hero's journey stories of our life that make us sound really impressive. But I don't think that's the same thing as really connecting and being vulnerable. I think one of the mistakes, I suppose, that people make early on is never really being vulnerable. And vulnerability isn't.

I always remember I did a TV show in Australia. Before anyone who doesn't know me watching this thinks that that must mean I'm Australian, I am not. I'm English. I feel like everyone in America always still thinks I'm Australian. But I was doing confusingly. I was doing a TV show in Australia.

Did they know you were British in Australia?

Yeah, they know. But I remember this woman that I was coaching on this show. She kept Going on to every date, she kept going on to every date. She went on this date, and I was supposed to give feedback, watching them on the dates and seeing how they did and what they could do to improve next time around. One of the things I kept noticing was throughout the date, she was just really laughing hard at everything this guy said. At the end of the date, I said to her, he wasn't that funny. You were laughing constantly, but he wasn't very funny. It doesn't mean you couldn't have politely laughed now and again, his attempts to be funny. But the way that you were laughing all the way through the day, it was inauthentic. That wasn't really you because I know you didn't find all of those things funny. By the way, you were laughing hysterically even when he wasn't trying to be funny. I said, that in itself was an absence of vulnerability because Instead of just connecting as you were and sitting into the date and maybe occasionally allowing there to be a breath without filling every silence.

Even that would have been a more It was a romantic experience. I said to her, The next day you go on with the guy, I want you to just share a little more. Because you also asked him a lot of questions. That's another version of not being vulnerable is when we just ask someone else lots and lots of questions and keep them talking. We don't ever share anything. I coach a lot of people who are like, especially a lot of women I work with are like, Men don't ask questions. I know that if you were to watch a lot of them, by the way, that's It's true. A lot of guys aren't asking questions. They're all too happy to just take the floor and talk about themselves. But if we're in an insecure place of not wanting to be vulnerable ourselves, we play into that dynamic because we keep setting them up. We ask another question, and when they finish talking, instead of vulnerably allowing there to be a silence for that person to have to now come in and ask you a question, you feel it again, and you ask another question, and then that person says, Okay, me again.

Then they start talking and telling you another story. We actually precipitate that dynamic by never taking the floor for ourselves and telling a story or sharing. Anyway, for me, her version of just asking questions and laughing was a form of lacking vulnerability, not really sharing. I said, The next date I want you to go on, I want you to be a more authentic version of yourself, and I want you to share. This is darkly funny, but you understand the context in which this is funny. She went on the date, and she told a story of a horrible car accident her father had had.Oh, my gosh.That changed his life forever. I just remember being tickled by it because it was obviously a very… This was a big story in her life. This was one of the most tragic moments in her and her dad's life. This was not like a second date. When I said be vulnerable, I didn't mean go and tell the most tragic story of your life. There's other ways to be vulnerable because not everyone deserves to know at the beginning of our connection with them, all of our flaws, everything we're insecure about, everything we worry about on our worst days, all of the things we're struggling with.All our wounds or traumas.

You don't necessarily trust someone enough with You don't feel safe with them enough to share all of those things. But there's other ways to be vulnerable. If you share with someone something that you're passionate about, that's vulnerable. Because often what we're passionate that you're passionate about isn't popular or it's not cool.

It's weird, it's nerdy, it's some unique hobby. It's weird, yeah.

It's like our thing. It's a little bit like it's very us, whatever that thing is very often or why we like it is very us. Sharing something, whether it's a TV show or a song that you listen to a lot, if it came on your Spotify shuffle, it would embarrass you that it came on in a room and that was on your... The Shuffle God's really screwed you by playing that while everyone else was around. Sharing those things and the things you're into, that itself is an act of vulnerability because you're allowing yourself to be seen a little bit. I think these are all ways that people can be on a date with us or be in a room with us and go, Aha, a person. It's worth asking ourselves, did I create any of those moments on this date? Or was I constantly tight and tense and censoring myself and anything that was really me and asking them lots of questions? It feels like connecting when you're only ever asking someone else questions because you're like, I'm doing it all right. I'm told to be a great listener, and I'm told to be curious.

I was doing that. I was being really, really curious. But there's a point where that goes past. Too much. Yeah, because now there's not a connection here.

No one knows anything about you. Yeah, exactly. Now, here's something I'm curious about. What is it that women actually want today in a relationship? I'll give you context. I was watching this video online recently of some guy on the street asking a woman, What's your biggest turn a man? The woman said, she was probably in her late 20s, the woman said, When a man is nice to me, she goes, I know I probably shouldn't be saying this, but when he's too nice to me, it's a turn off. Then turns into another video of a guy holding flowers at a restaurant who's taking a selfie video saying, I just got stood up by my date. We were having a good conversation online when we were connecting. I was taking the lead by choosing a restaurant that I thought she might be interested in by doing research on her profile and making suggestions. We were having great interactions. I was being very kind and generous with my attention. I brought flowers. I was on time, and she stood me up. I'm trying to be a thoughtful, generous, kind man, and I got stood up for it. What is it that women actually want today, do you think?

Maybe this is just this one woman that was interviewed saying, When a guy is too nice to me, it's a turn off. But why is it, sometimes it seems like, when men are actually trying to be good leaders, trying to be providers, trying to show up and do a nice gesture, Here's some flowers, pick the restaurant, show up well-dressed and grooms, why is that a turn off for some women?

Okay. I feel like there's a lot to say about this. Let's, firstly, Can we talk about the spent a lot of time looking at her profile, figuring out what she might like, picking a restaurant for the date, bringing flowers? That raises a lot of questions for me. Okay.

Let's say it was all good intentions, though.

Let's say it was like they were ever good. No, but those might be good intentions. Let's just take it that they were good intentions. It's still like, I don't know if that's nice. I don't know if that's nice. I think that that's like a…

It's like trying too hard?

If you've just been talking to someone and you haven't even been on a date with them yet, it's different. If you were long distance talking with someone for a month and you were having an amazing time with them and you were having great phone conversations and FaceTimes, and then you show up. Finally, you get to meet in person and you've picked a restaurant you know they'll like because they've told you what food they're into. You've brought flowers because you know what flowers they like at this stage. You're bringing them because it represents a connection that you already have. Then all of that feels more appropriate to me. But that feels like a bit of a victimized A guy victimizing himself by saying, Look at everything I did for a person who's going to show up to that date and go, Why did you do all of this? We haven't even been on a date before. We don't even really know we like each other. Why Why are you buying me flowers on a first date? It feels a bit like I don't know a lot of people that would show up to a first date having put in all of that effort.

I would worry that anyone who puts in all of that effort for someone that they're just meeting up with to see if they like each other I would worry about that person coming across a little bit creepy. Interesting.

Okay.

I think that that's a... Look, we're talking about a YouTube video, so it's quite possible that someone did all of those things and they said, Look, women say they want nice guy, and then I brought flowers on a date. But let's rewind for a second because you said the woman saying... The woman said, One guy's too nice. Now look, I think that's very honest.

She was like, I shouldn't be saying this, but when he's too nice to me, it's a turn off.

Yes. Now, there's versions. Now, okay. There's the version of it I just said, which I think does indicate to a person, there's something a bit off here about how hard you're trying at this stage. Sure. I get that. It could be too creepy. I shouldn't be getting this amount of effort at this stage. And by the way, if I am getting this amount of effort at this stage, here's what I know about you. This isn't really about me because you don't know me. Interesting.so if you suddenly… It's like a guy…

It's like love bombing, almost.

Yeah. Love bombing can be a more manipulative or sinister aspect of love bombing that I know what I'm doing when I love… I think there's a There's a very dark end of the spectrum with love bombing, and there's a much more naive end of the spectrum with love bombing. The dark end of the spectrum is someone who's really trying to get you to move faster than you would organically move so that they can extract a lot of attention and value and love from you very, very quickly. But the more naive end of the love bombing spectrum, I think, happens with people who fall for someone very quickly. Then because they've fallen for this person that they don't even know, they are now trying on a level that is completely unjustified because they're responding to the story they've created in their head, not the person they actually have in front of them. When someone feels that, they can sense that there's something off about this, that you don't really know me. We've exchanged texts. You don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm into on a deeper level. You I don't know what I'm like.

You shouldn't really know that you like me this much yet. Given this flowers and poetry and whatever, this doesn't… This is actually a sign that you're projecting right now. I don't like that you're projecting. It makes me feel strange because you're not really seeing me. By the way, if you could be feeling this about me right now, based on how little you know me, what it says to me is you could be feeling this about anybody next week. Interesting. This is about you. It's not about me. But I do want to go back to the women saying they want a nice guy thing or that they might get turned off by someone who's too nice. I think that's one version of being turned off because someone's too nice. We sense that their niceness is false.

Got you. But what if someone is genuinely nice? They're just maybe not mean to them. They're not showing them poetry and flowers, but they're just attentive, kind.

That's a sign of an unhealthy person in If it's a woman saying it, it's a sign of an unhealthy woman. If it's a man saying it, it's a sign of an unhealthy man.

What is a woman saying? What is a woman truly saying if they say, I don't like nice guys?

They're saying that my nervous system does not produce the effect that I call love around people who do not send it into some fight-off-flight response. When I am met with someone who does not make me chase, when I am met with someone who doesn't make me feel I have to earn their love, when I am met with someone who doesn't play games, doesn't give me anxiety by being consistent for three days and then dropping off the radar for a five or a week, when I am with someone who doesn't do those things, it doesn't feel like love to me. It does not feel like passion. It doesn't feel like fireworks. It doesn't feel like the thing that I think I'm supposed to feel. There's obviously so much knowledge now on where those things come from and that there are old patterns in how we relate to our caregivers or our parents or how they related to us that gets us used to a certain pattern. We get this nervous system imprint that is created at a very early point in life, and we spend the rest of our lives replicating that if we're not careful.

The great challenge, I think, for all of us, and this is true, by the way, of men, too. How many men relentlessly chase after women who don't seem to want them? Who reject them, who treat them like they're disposable? How many guys are playing the friend to a woman for years on end who picks them up and puts them down whenever it suits her, and they're doing it for years on end? This is not just a female pattern. This is a people pattern. Why Why is it that we respond to people who treat us poorly?

Why do we think we do?

Because there is something about it that is known to us.It's familiar.It's familiar, and we don't realize it. We think we hate it. I hate it. I hate that this person doesn't want me. If I could just get this person to want me, I'd feel good again. But what people often find is if that person truly turned around to meet you and gave you everything that you wanted from the beginning, it would have felt strange. That there's something in this dynamic that is in a weird way safe to you. It doesn't make you feel safe, but there's something That safety in the familiar. That's not our fault. We should exercise compassion towards ourselves for that because it's not our fault that these really damaging and destructive patterns are things that we chase because This was created at a time when we weren't deciding our response systems to things. We were in survival mode. I spoke to a woman recently. I did a show recently where the host of the show said, I really struggled to have hard conversations with people. If I have to have a hard... A big part of this book is I have a whole section on how to have hard conversations.

Because by the way, every relationship is shaped, is made in the crucible of hard conversations. Can you have the difficult conversation? Can you say the thing you're afraid to say? Can you express your need without fearing that if you do, something bad will happen? So many of the times people end up in painful relationships, or not even relationships, they end up in painful dynamics, or they end up in limbo with someone where it never ends up as a relationship It's always casual, is because they're afraid to have the hard conversations. There was this woman that was one of the hosts of the show, and she said to me, I really struggled to have hard conversations. I don't know why. Every time I go to have a hard conversation, it's like I break out in sweats and I panic. She said it wasn't in my family, no one's really ever had hard conversation. She said, and she didn't realize what she was saying as she said it, but she said, it's like my dad, for example. If I try to have a hard conversation with him, he just leaves the room. She kept going, but she didn't realize what she had said, which is you're entirely In our life, because that wasn't a pattern your dad started yesterday.

Your dad's most likely been like that since the day you were born. What you learned is that if you tried to have a hard conversation with your father, he would leave the room.

He would abandon you.

Now you have what therapists call core abandonment wound. This is something that's now with you. You wonder why with this person that you're on date three with who shouldn't even be that important to you, why it feels hard to articulate that you are disappointed that they showed up half hour late to the date or that they didn't She texted you for a week and then all of a sudden, reached out out of nowhere to say, Do you want to do something in one hour? Then you went without expressing that, Hey, we had two great dates, and then you were like, I didn't hear from you for a week, and now you're like, Are you ready in an hour? The reason she didn't express that, and the reason it made her so terrified to express it, irrationally terrified, is because in her world, it's been perfectly rational. This is where compassion comes in, because we're very good at calling ourselves crazy. I feel crazy. Why am I so scared of having this conversation? Or we get called crazy by other people. That's a favorite thing to call people. She was crazy. They're crazy. You can't believe what they tried to do or what they said to me.

They're not crazy. Something happened. They experienced something in their world at a time when it was their reality. It was her reality growing up. I'm extrapolating here, but like I said, if she's saying that about her dad, almost certainly her dad didn't start doing that last week. He's been doing it her whole life. It was real for her that there was a time in her life where if she tried to express a need with her father or tell him something that she wasn't he with or something that she'd like him to do more of or less of or a way that he'd hurt her, he would not be able to have the conversation and he would leave. When you're a child, that poses a real threat to you. What she's feeling now is rational for her in her world based on where she came from. We look at it from the outside and go, I can't believe that she would be so afraid to say this thing. She's going to end up in a two-year relationship with someone who never meets any of her needs, who doesn't even know what her needs are, who she resents deep down because it's like he never thinks of me.

But she's terrified to have that conversation because for her, If she has a hard conversation, it means abandonment, and abandonment means on an emotional level, not a logical level, she might not survive. When someone says, I struggle, I find it a turn off when someone is nice, they are articulating a deep, deep pattern that has been there for a long time in their life that they didn't choose and that they may not even be aware of.

Most likely, it sounds like their father probably was either rude to their mother or rude to them as a child, or maybe had some behavioral patterns that caused them to feel rude at different times.

Yeah, or they They were neglected and they felt like in order to get attention, they had to do a lot, or they had to be the golden child, or they had to meet everyone's needs. They had to go out of their way all the time to make someone happy. Then they'd get, whether it's from the father or the mother, they get a hit of love. All of a sudden, it's like, I feel calm, I feel safe. Oh, this feels so good. Then, of course, it's right back the next day, they're cold again, and you have to fight for that next hit. If you've experienced that, and now you're out there looking for love, you may very well have developed the association that love is something you have to earn. Love is something that comes in fits and starts. Love is something that you're grateful when you get a hit of it, and then you have to endure these periods of someone being cold in order to get the next hit. Of course, that's what's It's known as the trauma bond. But that's really what someone is saying. When someone says, I get turned off by people who are nice, and I get turned on by people who give me, and we have all sorts of euphemistic terms for it, the bad boy or the person who is super bold or the person who has an edge or whatever.

But a lot of the time what we're talking about is I'm trauma bonded to people who are hot and cold, inconsistent, make me have to earn their love, their attention, take it away from me and then give me it back again. That, by the way, makes that woman who said that a perfect target for abusive people. It makes them a perfect target for people who, forget whether they're abusive because they're narcissists or because they're sociopathic. It makes you a perfect target for someone who's in even just a selfish phase of their life. Because someone who's in a selfish phase of their life takes what they can get.

It's intermittent, it's up and down, it's hot and cold.

They're glad to be around someone who doesn't ask a lot of them. So even if you don't get someone who's truly toxic and abusive, you're still going to attract people who are selfish. Yes. And those people are going to waste your time and your energy because they're not where you're at. But you never test the relationship because this is on some level what you're looking This is what's familiar to you.

Lucy loves a good deal. So she waited until the sales to buy some walking boots, and she switched to 48 Mobile, getting all data calls and texts, plus 5G on Ireland's mobile Network of the Year for only 12.99 a month. Now, she can video call her mam from wherever her boots take her.

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Good call. Subject to fair usage, 12.99 one-time activation fee. 5g subject to device capability and coverage. 2023, switcher C48. Ie, Mobile Network of the Year. See, 48. Ie. I can relate to this because in previous seasons of life, I really struggled of having the hard conversations. I dreaded it.Me too.So looking back, I can say, Man, that's crazy. Just have the conversation and whatever. Just deal with it. But in the moment when I didn't have the tools or the nervous system to feel safe myself, and I needed I wanted the approval of someone else to feel safe, or I needed someone else to be okay with the hard conversation that I was having. When they weren't okay with it, or they would explode, or they would cry, or they would scream, or they would not speak to me for two days or something because they were upset of what I wanted to talk about, or they avoided it, it would make me feel like, Oh, I'm really insecure. I always had the fear of, I guess it was being alone, or it was the person not loving me in return, or me not being good enough, or something like that.

There was probably a combination of insecurities or fears that caused me to be afraid of having difficult conversations and just saying what I really wanted to say. Then I remember having throat clenching and heart palpitations over years of being in these different relationships where I never felt like I was able to speak up. I can't blame the other person. We We can never blame the other person for our decision to not communicate, not set standards, not say the things we need to say. We can't blame the other person. But it always felt like, Oh, this person isn't willing to accept me for who I am if I say the full truth, or if I talk about the things that I'm uncomfortable with, if I don't like this situation, they will not accept me. And they didn't accept me for my authentic conversations or my truth. But I was afraid of losing them for them not accepting me for who I was. Therefore, it was never going to work out. It wasn't until I started to really understand that and become aware of it and start to heal that process, a lot of things changed with Martha because I was like, wow, this is an incredible human being in front of me that I'm starting to date and connect with and meet.

She's pretty special. But I got to the point where I was like, But I can't be willing to lose myself in order to try to have someone want to stay with me. I cannot go down this path again, which I'd done five or six times in 20 years in different relationships, where I lost myself to try to please someone else so that they'd want to like and love me. And Therefore, hating myself in return, resenting myself, resenting the person, resenting the relationship, feeling guilty of why I wasted all this time and energy being in this relationship, fighting for it, while all the while, I was losing myself and losing my self-respect in that process. And it wasn't until Martha, I was like, Oh, man, I'm going to have the uncomfortable conversations pretty early on, in the first few months. I'm going to talk about, These are my standards. These are my values. This is what I want. This is what I'm not willing to deal with. In a relationship. And be willing to say, Maybe this isn't the right fit. If you don't have the same or similar standards, and if you aren't willing to fully accept all of me, my past, my shames, my insecurities, etc, then maybe We're not the right fit.

But that means I might not be with a great person in front of me. And that's a scary thing. It was scary, but it also set me free when I made the decision. Okay, I'd rather be free and be fully myself, authentic to myself, than trying to please and change who I am to be with someone to have them like and love me. And that set me free to say all the conversations I wanted to. It was like, the more honest and hard The conversations I had, it was like the more she fell in love with me.

Well, this is the interesting thing. This is the tragedy of giving into those patterns, because I think this is a really important thing for everyone to hear, is that the past does not have to equal the future when it comes to these patterns. Our nervous system may have gotten wired in this way at a time when we didn't choose for it to be wired that way. It just happened to us because that's what we needed to do to survive. But it doesn't mean that it's not a life sentence. Once you become more aware of those patterns, you do have the power to have an enormous impact on changing them or even just how you relate to those patterns. I relate to what you're saying because I know that one of the things that I have come to enjoy in my life It was just moments of being able to sit and read a book, just to sit and read and to do it. It doesn't matter if my wife, Audrey, is there, but just to feel like it's the same as if I was only on my own. In other words, I just feel like I'm in my own company and able to fully relax doing that without feeling the need to entertain somebody else.

Even what I just said is my stuff.

That used to scare you in the past?

It's a feeling of being responsible for somebody else's emotions.

And their happiness or their joy.

It would make me... I had to come to terms with the fact that I was afraid to speak up about what I needed, about really silly little things. I was afraid to say I really could use just a night to myself, or I could really use just a few hours to just read. Just something simple. On a Sunday, I love just reading or spending a few hours just catching up on the news because it's not something I do on the weekdays. Once a week, I like to sit down and just look at everything that's going on and just feel like I'm doing it at a leisurely pace.

And not responsible for someone else's activities.

Are they having a good Sunday?

Now, what did it used to be like in the past?

I just wouldn't say anything. Then I would become less of myself in the relationship. There would be resentment from my side, but I'd also be a worse version of myself because they would feel me frustrated on some level.

Was there something you'd… Did you try to communicate this in previous relationships?

No, it was all my fault. Oh, really? It was all my fault.

You never tried to even say it, and someone was mad at you.

No, I think...

For wanting two hours by yourself.

No, because even if that was true, it predated anyone I dated. It's this deep feeling from childhood of feeling like I'm responsible for-Right, because you're the oldest, right? Probably. I think in my family dynamic, I felt responsible a lot for people's emotions. It carried over into my relationships. With Audrey, I would notice that it's something that she'd be more than happy to give me. I was afraid to say. Even when I did say it, I would then feel anxious having said it.

Really?

Yeah, because I would feel like I've upset you. She's like, No, go do your-I feel like, Are you mad at me? Is everything okay? Are you happy? Almost like in my head, there was this subconscious feeling that there was going to be this weird comeuppance for it.

You took your 2 hours of alone time.

Now I'm going to get you. Something or like, I'm going to go and do something really fun that you would have wanted to do.I'm.

Not going to invite you.Yeah..

My brain was doing all of these weird things, and I had to pay attention to that and go... Look, what you said What you said is absolutely true. That if you keep doing that, it's a very similar pattern to yours. It might have different origins, but there's a similarity in being unwilling to speak up about your needs and what you want. What you said is true that if you didn't learn to speak up about those things, then you could be really unhappy in a relationship. We tend to focus on that side of it, that I never want to be that unhappy again like I was in the past when I was in a relationship and none of my needs were met. But we also often don't give enough focus to the inverse of that, which is that imagine Imagine how great your relationship could become when you're with someone who truly knows you. When someone gets to see all of those little idiosyncrasies about you and who you are. Audrey, my wife makes fun of me all the time. Really? Yeah, she's constantly making fun of me because she's like, You're so particular and you need...

When you wake up in the morning... She makes fun of me because she's like, When you wake up in the morning, you really like those couple of hours before I wake up where you get to just do all your little rituals and the things you want to do. She makes fun of me for it, but she loves me for it because it's like, That's you. I know you. I know who you are. The more she knows who I am, the more she can actually be a teammate in supporting that. Now, she's such an incredible partner that she'll say to me, Hey, do you want... She might say to me proactively, Do you want some time this weekend to yourself? Or do you want it? Because I'm honest about the things that I would like, which requires bravery and courage, because, again, it's like old wounds and old things. I feel like it's going to go, something's going to go wrong if I do this. I've given her the gift of showing who I really am. I've given myself the gift of truly feeling seen and accepted.

Yes.

For who I am. I've also given myself the gift, and her the gift, of her knowing how to support me better, which is a beautiful thing because she wants to support me. She wants to be the best partner she can be for me and vice versa. We can only do that if we know each other. We've both worked on that together. That's another form of vulnerability, by the way, is sharing those things. This is like beyond any relationship I've ever had in my life because of those moments, not just me and Audrey have the most extraordinary connection and chemistry and all of those things, these amazing things. But we also just... I've never felt so seen and accepted and loved. That's pretty cool. She would say the same, and it's because both of us have been more brave than we in previous relationships.

But how do we learn the skill of expressing our needs and having a hard conversation without the fear of some blow up or backlash happening? How do we If we've never done that before, had hard conversations, how do we learn to have them without the fear of something bad happening?

A couple of things. I think first, just noticing... I'm a huge fan of Nicole Apera's work because so much of her focus is on understanding that there is a nervous system response and therefore, bodily sensations that we feel that you have to detach from the story that goes with them. If you start thinking When you're speaking about having a conversation with someone, your body starts to react as if there's danger, if that's your version of danger from your past. When your body starts to react, we try to logic ourselves out of it by... It's very common. Self-development is very common in self-development to come up with reframes. If you have this hard conversation, it could actually It could improve the relationship, or it could... Reframes are really important. Reframing is something I use all the time in my life. But one of the things Nicole said to me recently that I really loved was that until you can regulate your nervous system and the sensations that are going on, you might not have access to a better story. Because that's what a reframe is. It's a more powerful story. You For example, someone came to me some time ago about a hard conversation they needed to have with their boss.

A reframe that I gave them was that you're treating this hard conversation like it's the be all end or hard conversation that you have to have. Actually, this is like the first of the next 10,000 hard conversations you're going to have in your life. This is like one of so many hard conversations conversations you're going to have in your lifetime. Instead of seeing this, this big, epic moment where you have to have a hard conversation, actually see it as practice for the next hard conversation you have to have because you're going to have to have many in your life, and you're Your ability to have hard conversations is going to determine the quality of your life. Instead of seeing this as really high stakes, see this hard conversation is practice for the next hard conversation you're going to have to have with him or with anybody. That's a reframe. But when our body goes into a true nervous system response, when we go into fight or flight, or when we go into freeze, for example, it can be extremely difficult to even have access to a better story. So hard. Someone can tell you. It's like a heartbreak.

Someone can come along and say to you some story. There's plenty more fish in the sea. It's a story. It's a reframe. There's more people out there. That's a reframe. You're trying to give someone a more empowering story, but in their state of heartbreak, which has physiologically overcome their body, they don't have access to the truth of the story you're telling them, even if it's true. Regulating your nervous system first, whether it's through, and you and I have done so much of this together, when we went to Poland with Wim Hof, what did we do every single morning? We regulated our nervous system. We did like 45 45 minutes of breathing, but you don't need to do 45 minutes of breathing. You could do five minutes of breathing. You can find a way to slow yourself down, whether it's through meditation, whether it's through losing yourself in a different task. We could even be calling a friend and having a nice conversation before revisiting this hard conversation you need to have. It's taking your body out of that state by regulating. Then when you've regulated, I feel it, I do Brazilian jiu-jitsu. At the end of it, whatever problem is making me anxious at the beginning of a session of rolling.

At the end of an hour of rolling on the mats, I have access to a better story.

You can communicate it better.

Yeah, because I've burnt off a lot of anxious energy. I've been forced any sport like that forces presence.

You're not thinking about the problem.

It's like when Wim says, being in the ice, being in a frozen lake or whatever, for him was the thing that took his... It was the first time he wasn't thinking about the greatest tragedy of his life was when he was in the ice. It's true. Because all his focus was just on the feeling, the shock, the pain of being in the ice. For me, I get that from a Brazilian jiu-jitsu where it's forced presence for me. Then at the end of it, when I'm laying on the mat, I'm like, That thing doesn't feel as scary to me, or I feel like I have access to a deeper truth or something better. The start is regulating your nervous system first, and then to start to look at what are some better stories that I could tell myself here? For example, I have this story in my head that if I am honest with someone about what my needs are, they're going to leave me. But what if... Firstly, let me remind myself that in the beginning, when I haven't done this, it's been a special hell. The relationship where I didn't get my needs met wasMiserable.

It was hell. It made me so… I've been in those relationships, and I know that people around me at the time who loved me were like, Oh, my God, he's in a dark place.

I'd much be single than in a relationship with intermittent love where my needs are not met.

Knowing that is a power because if you've never experienced that pain before, then you're liable to go back to it. But if you have had it and if you connect to that pain, then all of a sudden you go, Well, nothing is worse than that, so I can't go back there. Then there might be It's also a very positive story that if I think of my dream relationship, if I think of the... I don't mean dream relationship in that you find the perfect partner. I mean, if I think of the connection, the team that I want to be a part of, That's a place where I really feel seen. If I want that, then I have to allow myself to be seen. That means me sharing. You might also tell yourself that, Hey, me sharing this stuff also gives them permission to do the same. My end of the bargain, by the way, I think this is really important. We talk a lot. There's a lot of Instagramable content out there now of getting your needs met. But you're also in a relationship with a person who has needs on the other side. It's It's popular to talk about when our needs aren't being met.

But what about when their needs aren't being met? What about the things that would make them really happy? There's not nearly as much content around that stuff.How.

To serve your partner at the highest level.Yeah..

Now, the reason there's not, I believe, is because those posts are usually created by people who have experienced the pain of overgiving and never being vulnerable enough or brave enough or confident enough to receive and to ask for what they want to receive. But the other end of the bargain is when someone... You're looking for someone who sees you and your needs and wants to show up as a teammate in meeting those needs. But the thing that often gives someone the sense of safety that they can do that is when you're also taking care of their needs. People don't feel safe to meet our needs when they're worried that they've got to watch their own and vice versa. It's like when I said, When Audrey anticipates my need, it actually frees up my energy because now I don't need to be worried about my needs. I'm like, Oh, she's got me. She's got me. It frees up energy to go, What does she need? What's the thing? She just asked me the It's the most beautiful question in the world. She said, What do you need? How can I be better for you this week?

How can I support you this week? That frees me up. It frees up mental bandwidth to go, Hang on, have I done anything that awesome for her this week? This is someone who really has my back. Who else in my life is asking me that question? That's unbelievable. This is the greatest teammate in the world. I'm so lucky. I'm so grateful. From that place, you're like, I better be showing up for this person in the same way. What does she need? How can I be there for you? What are you missing? What am I not doing enough of that would mean a lot to you? It's a two-way street.

100%. If you're giving and giving and you don't feel like your needs are being met, then you probably need to communicate, Hey, I need some time for my needs as well, or Here's what I need, and make a request. Is this something you can provide?

And notice if you are giving and giving and feeling resentful because that has nothing to do with them. It may come from the fact that they're giving less than you are.

But you have an expectation then, too.

The fact that you're resenting it and you haven't said anything? That's on you. That's your pattern. That's your work to do because there's something, I bet you, that pattern doesn't just show up with this person. I bet it shows up with other people in your life, too. I bet it's shown up people in the past. We have to suspect ourselves. When we have the same resentments all the time, it's suggestive of the fact that there is a pattern that requires healing within us. That healing That could hold the key to the relationship you've always wanted. Because, by the way, like I said, by changing these patterns and healing these wounds, you will find yourself in a place where better and better relationships are available to you because people will start to see you. You'll start to attract a different quality of person. You'll start to attract someone who sees that you respect yourself. You'll start to sculpt the relationship that you want. But we deny ourselves these relationships, and we wonder why it is I keep running into people who take me for granted.

This is something I used to do in relationships. I used to I think that everyone in the world thought the same way as me, essentially. That if I'm attracting this person, they must think similar to me. They must want to give like me. They may want to be thinking about me the way I think about them. They may want to be generous the way I'm trying to be generous, and therefore thinking they're going to be similar with their generosity like me. But when it wouldn't happen, I would get frustrated and be like, Why aren't they giving the way that I'm giving? I had an expectation, and this expectation left me feeling frustrated, resentful, confused, whatever it may be. And because I lacked the ability to communicate my standards through hard conversations, the relationships never worked. I'm sure there's many other flaws that I had, why those relationships didn't work. But that was one thing that left me feeling frustrated, not only in intimacy, but also in friendships or business relationships, where I was like, I'm going to show up a certain way, and I have an expectation that other people show up a certain way.

Or if I'm going to be generous in one way, I have an expectation that if I do something for someone else, that they would be just thoughtful in similar ways and be as generous. And when some people did that, but not everyone. And so it left me feeling frustrated more times than not because I had an expectation. As opposed to just communicating, Okay, here's what I'm all about, and here's what I value. Here's my values, here's my standards, or not having any expectations at all, and being the generous person and not being resentful if there's not a standard met in return and being okay with that. I've had to learn the hard way of making sure that I either don't have expectations in certain friendships, business relationships, intimacy, or communicate with hard conversations and see if someone can meet that standard.

That's the interesting thing. That's where romantic relationships hold this strange space of their own, because there's things you can do with other relationships that take all of that pressure out of it. With business relationships or certain friendships, maybe you're not your very closest friends, but with people who are on the outskirts of your core circle, you can have few expectations because you say, When I'm with this person, I have a great time. They don't really show up for me in meaningful ways in my life, but they're fun company when we to have it. That's okay because I got other people. I've got a handful of core people in my life that really do show up when it matters. I don't need that from this person, so I don't have to have any expectations. If I give to this person, I'm just going to know the deal that I'm going to give to this person, but I'm going to expect nothing back because I know that probably I won't get it back from this person. Our intimate relationships hold a special place of power in our lives because they tend to be the person we have the most proximity to on a daily basis.

It's the person that we expect the most from, and it's the person that we can't meet certain needs elsewhere. It's not like sexually, you go, Well, if this person doesn't meet all of my needs, I'll go elsewhere, and I'll mix it up and spread it around. It's not like that. We have certain rules in place for most monogamous relationships that say that there are certain things that it's inappropriate for me to get elsewhere. Even if that's not the case, because that's not the case with many of our needs, It's still the case that this is the person I'm going to invest the most time and energy into, and the most love into, and the most of myself into. If that's the case, by definition, it's the relationship that has to come with the most reciprocity. It can't be a one-sided thing because of how much I am required to give to this relationship, how much I'm prepared to give to this relationship.

That's why you got to communicate the hard thing is to express them.

You have to. Look, you're right. People are different. We're not all the same in relationships. You might really like this, and she really likes that, and they're different. But it's why I I think compromise is important. Where might we be able to give each other a bit more of what we want? But it's also the thing that I think people fail to do a lot is view their romantic relationships holistically. I might not get this thing as much as I want, but it's like if you really like phone calls, and your partner, when they on a trip, you don't really hear from them because it's just not like for them sitting on the phone, it just doesn't lend itself to their communication style. So they'll text you, but being away and then sitting on the phone For an hour, it's just not their natural thing. You could try and force it, but most times it just feels a bit forced. Yes. Well, if that person in every other way is an incredible partner, and when they're with you, they are so present, and they text you. It's not like they leave you. They don't ghost you on texts.

There's a back and forth through texts. They'll send you pictures of where they are and what they're up to. They might leave you a loving voice note. And, big and, you're in a relationship that's not long distance. In other words, the majority of the time you're together, it just so happens that sometimes they have to take trips without you for work or whatever. Then it's like, this is all right. I'm loved. Yeah, of course. I feel loved in this relationship. I don't need them to try to be good at this thing that they're not good at or they don't feel natural at. Because I get my needs met. On the whole, I do get my needs met. Would it be nice if they enjoyed sitting on the phone as long as I did? Maybe, but it's okay. Now, start adding in variables, and you can quickly see how justifying that can become a problem. Let's say that this person also isn't good at texting. Let's say that this person's work takes them away for half the time. Now you might have a real problem because you're not together 50% of the time. You're someone who values closeness.

Phone calls were a way that you felt close, but fine, you would have settled for messages and pictures and just feeling a little bit involved in their day, but you don't even You can feel that. And are they away half the time? You're going to be miserable. It's viewing these things holistically. No one is ever going to be 100% of everything you needed a person to be, and there are always going to be differences. So when we ignore the fact that our needs are getting met less of the time than... They're not being met more of the time than they are, and you're ignoring When you're doing that, then you're unhappy. Yeah.

In your book, Love Life: How to Raise your Standards, Find your Person, and Live Happily, No Matter What, you talk about, there's a quote from your book that said, I made a big miscalculation. I underestimated people's ability to make poor choices in their love life, even when they had an abundance of choice. When we have an abundance of choice, of opportunities, maybe great men in front We have us or great women in front of us, and we're going on lots of dates, and we're like, Wow, there's so many inspiring people. Where most people are struggling to find one person that they're interested in, but now you have an opportunity with lots of people. How do we choose properly when you have an abundance of choices with the potential partners? How do you know the person you're going to choose for the next 20, 30, 50 years, potentially, is the one for you?

Look, I think a very simple place to start is who do I feel most at home with? Who, when I spend time with them, makes me feel most like myself? I think when we listen to that, we are listening to... Do I want to say my heart? We're listening to our heart. We're not listening to our ego because I think ego drives us a lot in our love lives. We chase after people who seem impressive on the surface, people who look a certain way, people who have a certain life, people that we think are going to look good to our friends and family, and they're going to be celebrated by the people around us. Everyone's going to go, They're amazing. By the way, the person that all of your friends and family initially say is the most amazing is not necessarily the best person for you. So true.

How many people have you- So many people have gotten married by saying, Oh, but my family loves this person.

Yeah. And by the way, your family aren't all the greatest judge of character.

And they're not spending 24/7 What's going on with this person.

They're not. What they're getting is an advertisement.

Two hours on a weekend or something.

How many of us have ever spent a few hours with someone, a day with someone, and thought they were the greatest person ever? And then Weeks or months later, we looked back and we realized, Oh, this was a very charismatic person who really knew how to be endearing and was very charming. When I met them, I just felt so good around them. I felt like, Oh, my God, they're like... You just felt this amazing thing. But later on, you realized this person's actually... They There was no friendship there at all. This is just a person who's really good at making people like them. Some people were like that with your family and friends. Now, by the way, that's not me saying, if all of your family and friends think someone is bad news, you should not listen to that. Because if the people you trust the most are like, this something doesn't feel right, you should hear that. Again, if the people that you trust the most, it's almost like on that level, it's more important that the people you trust the most feel like, Oh, this person's a really good fit for you. I can see that this person is like, You two go really well together.

They get you, as opposed to, This person is really amazing. That's a bit different.

You should be thinking of, Does this person bring the best out of you? Correct. If your family sees that the person you're with, maybe he doesn't make as much money or have the job that I think I wanted to have or whatever. He's not there yet in life. But if you are a happier human being in general, if you shine more consistently, if you bring out the best aspects of yourself because of this relationship, then that's something that people should approve of.

That's exactly right. Do they bring out the best in you? Are you sad constantly? Exactly.

Are you constantly having the conversation of problems with this relationship?

Everyone's experience a friend or a family member who is terribly anxious and unhappy in a relationship that they are desperately clinging on to thinking it's the most important thing in the world. The rest of us from the outside are going, This shouldn't be the most important thing in the world. You're unhappy. I think someone we feel at home with, someone who makes us feel the most like ourselves, look for the areas where ego seems to be driving. Ego is often driving when you have a poor answer to why you like someone.

When you're asked the question, why do you love this person? And you don't have a good response, no.That's.

A red flag.It's for sure. Dr. Ramony, our mutual friend who's the leading expert on narcissism, says one of the surest signs that something is up is when she asks why someone loves someone, and they do not have a good answer. The answer approximates to there's just something about them. That's not a good answer.

Saying there's great sex isn't a great answer either. No. We just have great explosive sex.

There's some prerequisites for a great relationship. Chemistry is important. It's not that you can say, I'll just be with someone who's nice to you, even if you have no chemistry. That also isn't going to work. You have to have chemistry, but chemistry is a prerequisite. It's not like the thing you have to go like, I'm trying to get the greatest chemistry anyone could ever have. It's just that you need chemistry. There's a moment in the book where I say, Don't comparison shop for chemistry. Instead, see it as a beautiful thing. If you found someone who's an incredible teammate, who's all of these things you really want, values that are important to you, and there's chemistry, that's an amazing thing. Am I coming from ego or am I coming from a place of what actually makes me happy is a huge, huge, huge decision. Sometimes we don't learn that until we have spent time with people that are less familiar to us but make us feel really good. Your ego might flare up in some way or another, or you might be like, Oh, but do I want to do this? Maybe I could have someone with this or that or whatever.

There's a lot of that in the world, and it creates massive confusion. Instead of just going, This feels unfamiliar, but there's something about this that feels really good.

I love your definition of when you know that you're choosing the right person as someone who makes you feel most at home. I love that idea. Martha, my fiancée, she's always like, Man, I wish I would have met you 10 years ago. We would have had so much fun over these last 10, 15 years being together. I keep saying to her, I wouldn't have been ready for you. Because if I would have met you 10 years ago, I would have looked at you and I would have not have had the same level of, I don't know if you would call it, attraction or just curiosity to be in a relationship. Because my nervous system wasn't built for you. It wasn't built to feel safe and accepted for who I was. It wasn't. I still needed to learn how to regulate my nervous system, heal, reflect, and really go through a growth period, emotionally and physically, really, to feel familiar with safety. And feel familiar with peace, because I didn't have I didn't understand that that was safe.

No, and when you're in that, I think for a lot of people, especially those who are playing the field and experiencing different people and whatever, there is a being single is this dopamineogenic cycle. It's hard to get off that cycle because you're wired for it now. You're wired for instant gratification, you're wired for variety and excitement and what next and the The traumas of the first few weeks of knowing someone and the romance of just figuring each other out. All of that is like and texts and phone buzzing and this and that. This person is now called and it's like a frantic dopamine engine that you get stuck in. At a certain point, you have to come to value something else more Because otherwise, and this happens, of course, routinely, is people get locked into that cycle. It was clear to me at a certain point, Oh, this happiness doesn't lie here for me. Anxiety lies here for me.Uncertainty.Uncertainty. It's having an effect on the way I see the world or myself. This is not going to serve me long term. But just because you realize that, it doesn't mean that you immediately have an appreciation of what the other thing is, or that you even know what it looks like, or what package it comes in.

You don't know any of those things. There's a whole chapter I wrote in this book that I'm really insanely proud of because I think it's so on the money of what's happening for so many people. It's called Never Satisfied. That, I think, is the feeling I explain the steps of why it is we struggle to be satisfied. The next chapter is how to rewire your brain so that you can actually rewire your sofa happiness. Because I know for a long time, I was that never-satisfied person.In.

Relationships or just?Yeah.

My love life. I think in life, too. But in my love life, I was just chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing. Dopamine, dopamine. I'm not happy. I need to get out of this relationship. I'm single. Dopamine, dopamine. I'm not happy here. There must be some perfect person who's going to make me feel differently about this whole thing, and I'm going to feel different when I meet that person. That person didn't come because it wasn't really about that. Something was going on with me. I was in that cycle. The other thing that is available to you is so This isn't a lecture on whether someone should be single or in a relationship.I don't want to become that person.Sure. But what is so amazing about a healthy relationship is not available to you until you come to value something different. It's like someone who's been used to doing drugs every day. Then the day that you get them to quit drugs, you sit them outside their house in front of a beautiful field and you say, Appreciate the sunset.

Yeah, there's no dopamine rush anymore.

A sunset is amazing. A sunset is an awe-inspiring, unbelievable thing. It's something that is mind-blowing. Why do we all go on holiday and everyone at the same time goes out onto the beach and watches the sunset? Because there's something stunning and magical about a sunset. But for the person who's been doing drugs every day, that's not the day you can appreciate a sunset. You are coming out of all of those feelings that you've been addicted to and all of that instant gratification, dopamine. It's about, again, it's nervous system stuff. It's retraining my nervous system. This is some of the stuff we talk about in how to rewire It's your brain, but you have to orient yourself towards a different goal. In the beginning, you can't expect the new thing to feel like the old thing because it's not going to feel like the old thing. But the more you lean into the new thing, you develop an appreciation for how much better it actually feels. And that's like a stunning and eye-opening realization. And I feel really passionate about this because I see a lot of really unhappy people. I was one of them, by the way, who are stuck in those cycles.

I think there's a lot of people who get stuck in optimization cycles in their love life, where it's like, especially Taipei people, not everyone does, but a lot of people do, where it's like, I'm trying to find the perfect thing, and if someone's missing this thing, I'm going to optimize and go for another person who's got all the good things about this person, and also that thing. It's like, people don't work like that. You exchange one basket of ingredients for another basket of ingredients. You'll get new good stuff and new bad stuff and challenging stuff. I'm a huge believer. I think the settling is a word that has a really unfairly negative connotation, and it shouldn't. Is there something amazing about that word? You can change the meaning of that depending on the word that goes after it. If you tell someone you have to settle for something that feels immediately negative. It's like settling down. Yeah, because I feel like I'm being short-changed. But if you say settling on something, that changes it because you, Lewis, settled on a particular business and brand. You're such a capable person. You could have done a hundred different things in this lifetime, and you would have been a success at them.

How the hell do you decide which one you should do? You found one that scratch the itch in a bunch of different ways. It allowed you to be creative. It allowed you to broadcast, which is something you're really good at. It allowed you to connect, which is something you're really good at. It allowed you to harness all of these relationships, which is something you're really great at is relationships. It allowed you to put to work your strategy mind. It allowed you to be competitive, which is something that's in your bones. This business, it ticked a lot of boxes for you. But it's not the only business that would have ticked boxes for you. There are other things you could have done that would have ticked boxes, but you settled on greatness. You said I'm going to go all in on this, and I'm going to keep going on this. The thing that has made what you do so great, and what you have done is extraordinary. What you've built, the audience you've built, the platforms you've built, the body of work you've built, it's extraordinary. But it's not extraordinary because you found an extraordinary thing.

You didn't find the word greatness. You just went, I've got the... If you'd have said to me, 15 years ago, we didn't know each other then. But when you started, if you'd have said to me, Matt, I've got the greatest idea. I am going to take the word greatness, and I am going to just own that world and a word and build a brand out of it and do all of the... I would have been like, That's not an idea. You've taken a common word in the English language.

You talk about it.

You know what I mean? But that's not what's made this extraordinary. What's made this extraordinary is that you have settled on it and you take this thing to another level every year. People who are looking at you going, You've got a lot of... I've walked with you in the street in Vegas on holiday in places, when we've traveled, you have people coming up to you everywhere you go. You're a hero to so many people, and so many people want to create what you've created or want to be where you are. But you didn't start with this really special thing. You spent year after year after year making a really special thing. Every year, I see you take the same core thing and stick with it again.

Yeah.

Not go, You know what? Now, what I really want to do is now I really want to do real estate.

Yeah, I'm over this. I'm going to move on to something greater.

Yeah, that's not it for you. You're like, I'm going to make this thing even better.

I think that's how people should approach relationships.

That's my point, is that you settle when The thing that makes a relationship the greatest relationship of your life is that you take someone who ticks the boxes for you. And that's the starting point. But then, based on the values you each bring, and I think there are some very powerful values for a relationship, like being growth-oriented, like teamwork, like loyalty, like prioritizing the vision of the relationship. I think when you take those things and you put those two people like that together, what they start with is not nearly as interesting as what they will create together. You can only create that if you settle on a person, but you will never settle on a person as long as you are looking for the perfect person as a starting point, because the perfect relationship doesn't exist at the beginning. But the perfect relationship for you can exist over time if you settle on someone and you resolve to make that relationship as good as it can possibly be. And that's why I get so excited about my relationship because I'm like, it's amazing right now. It's going to be even better in six months. Because we're building something together.

Martha says that to me all the time. She's like, How do I love you even more today than I did last week? I think it's because we're both focused on growing ourselves individually and growing the relationship together. I'm sure there's going to be adversities and challenges we face, but us facing it together makes us even more connected and appreciate each other even more.

There's something even fun about that. When you know you're an amazing team, there's even something fun about knowing that there's going to be challenges and how you're going to solve those as a team because you're a killer team. Absolutely. Even that, there's something exciting about it. Absolutely. I think we almost have to pay attention to some of these ideas we have about love and relationships. The way we use words like settling, are you settling for someone or are you settling on someone? That will change. If you settle for someone, you'll become passive and resentful in that relationship. If you see it like you settled on someone, of any choice you could have made, you chose this person. Because you chose it, you're going to lean into it and you're going to make it as great as it can possibly be, that relationship, that will change the way you approach relationships. The same is true of the word commitment. This is amazing. This is such a fantastic example of the point I'm making. If you look up, I think it's in Apple dictionary. I don't know how it's reflected in the Oxford Dictionary, but if you go on your Mac and you type in the word commitment, there are two different definitions that come up.

Really?

What does it say?

One is a... I think it reads, and people can go and look for themselves and get the exact wording right. But one of them says roughly, a obligation that restricts freedom of action. Wow. Now, if you give me someone that has that as their definition of commitment, and I'll show you someone who has a hard time ever being in a relationship. But there's another definition of commitment under that one. It says, commitment, a dedication to a cause. Now, When you think of dedication to a cause, it creates a completely different energy in your body. I'm dedicated to this cause. I'll fight for this cause. I'll do anything for this cause. There's something heroic about that. I'm dedicated to the cause of our relationship, of our future, of our vision, of where we're going. There's something stunningly beautiful about that. Dedication to a cause. An obligation that restricts freedom. One is about shrinking your world, and the other one enlarges it. There are so many people out there struggling with the idea of committing, whether it's to a business, an idea, a path, a country, a person, a new sport, and And your definitions around these words, the way you choose to see them, is going to determine your ability to stay with something, to invest in something.

And I think that's so fascinating. I really do.

Yeah. This is big, man. There's so many more questions I want to ask you, but I want people to get the book because I know you're going to answer a lot of these questions in here as well. Love Life: How to Raise your standards, find your person, and live happily no matter what. So make sure you guys get a few copies. If you have a friend who's been struggling in relationships, get them a copy as well. If you know someone that just went through a breakup, get them a copy. If you know someone who's in a healthy relationship, get them a copy so they can still use these tools to improve their relationship as well. Love Life. Where can they go and get this copy? Is there a way we can get some extra goodies or bonuses? Or should we just go on Amazon? Where should we go?

You can definitely get it from Amazon or Barns & or wherever you get your books. But we actually have a website, lovelifebook. Com. The advantage of getting a copy through that website is we have something really, really special going on right now. On the fourth of May, I'm doing a worldwide live event, and it's going to be a very, very special event. It's the event that if we just ran this as a normal event, it would cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars. This is my first book in 10 years. It's amazing. It's a huge celebration for me and for my team. It's a big moment. It's a big milestone. I've poured my heart and soul into this. I think people who read it are going to see there's a lot more vulnerability from me in this book.

You're a completely different person.

Yeah. I tell those stories in the book in a way that I've never told them on YouTube or anywhere else. This is a big celebration for us. As a result, we wanted to do something very special for everyone who gets a copy of this book and supports us and supports themselves or someone they love in the process. So every single person who gets a copy of the book, when you go through lovelifebook. Com, you'll see you can order a copy of the book, and then you can literally take your confirmation number on your receipt wherever you got it, even if it's from a regular bookstore and not Amazon. You can take your confirmation number, put it in on the website, and that confirmation number becomes your free ticket to the worldwide event that I'm doing online on May the fourth.

There you go.

Yeah, that's going to be a great accompanying to the book is to actually spend this day with us.

Lovelifebook. Com. They'll get that event for free by getting a copy of the book.

Exactly.

There's so many great concepts in here. Again, how to rewire your brain. I love the chapter in here about if you know you want to leave, but you don't know how to leave, it teaches people how to get out of a relationship the right way.

Yeah, there's a lot of talk in there. That's a big chapter on anyone who's in a toxic, abusive, or narcissistic relationship. You can apply that, by the way, across the board, not just to your love life, but if there's family relationships that you're struggling with and you don't know what to do about them, that's a very hard-hitting chapter. There's chapters on confidence in there, which is why this has mass appeal. I want to say this just to... Because I think it's important for people to hear. I have come to believe that there are three relationships we are all in in life. One is our relationship with other people. The second is our relationship with ourselves. The third is our relationship with life itself. These are three relationships that you can't get out of. For as long as you are here on this planet, you are in these three relationships. And these relationships, the quality of them, will determine your happiness in this world. So we better focus on those relationships. And that's in many ways, this book is designed not just to be a book for people who looking to find love, but a book for people who are looking to find love, but a book for people who are looking to improve those relationships.

I talk about my own journey. Even I talk about some times where I fell out of love with life because I was handed some difficult cards along the way and struggled. Maybe we could talk about it on another episode, but was in a very dark place, in a very depressed place. I talk in the book how I improved the tools that I used to improve my relationship with life in the hardest times of my life. That's why the double meaning in the title of this book is so important to me. This isn't just about your love life, it's about your love for life. It's why that last line, How to raise your standards, find your person, and live happily no matter what, was really, really important to me. I don't think this is just a book about finding love. I believe that this is a book that will get passed around for people who are struggling with all sorts of things in their lives.

That's cool, man. Again, if you don't have a good relationship with life, you're probably not going to have a good relationship with yourself. If you don't have a good relationship with yourself, how are you going to find someone that you can actually love and appreciate without being jaded on them trying to hurt you in some way? You need to have a healthy relationship in all three areas, or those first two, at least, if you want to have a healthy relationship with someone else and trusting them in your life and opening your heart to them. So I want to get the book, lovelifebook. Com, to get that special event with Matthew Hussy. We're going to do another episode here in a moment. So I want people to check out part two, a separate episode. Make sure to subscribe so you can watch this and listen to this as well for part two coming up here soon. And I'm going to ask you some of those questions you just talked about there. But to wrap up this interview, I wanted to ask you about I've asked you a bunch of questions at the end before. You've been on this show many times, but I want to ask you a question about if you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love.

Let's get out of my pen.

If you could give Give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love, knowing everything you know now from being in multiple different relationships, going through breakups, being in challenging situations in love, being single, and dating a bunch of people over the years, now being married. If you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love, knowing everything you know now from being in multiple different relationships, going through breakups, being in challenging situations in love, being single and dating a bunch people over the years now being married, if you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love that you wish you would have known then, that you know now, what would those three things be?

Okay, I think I got it. Three on the spot is hard, by the way.ImagineI.

Got it, though. 18-year-old Matthew sitting in front of you saying, I just want to find love, and I just want to feel loved, and I want to find a great... I want to have a great family and be married one day. You get to sit in front of him with all the wisdom that you have now, and all the heartache, and all the pain, and all the love that you've experienced. What are you going to say to your younger self?

I think the first thing I would say is that it's not... This is going to sound cheesy, but I really mean it. I would start by saying it's not your fault that you are the way you are. That these things that you think are a sign that you're broken, whether it's your shyness or your anxiety or feeling like you're terrified of rejection or that you're not good enough. These things, they've either been part of you from the beginning or they are a response to things that have happened in your life. I'm not saying everything is nurture. Some of it is just our DNA, our brain. But either way, these things that you keep judging your sofa and telling yourself that you're broken for, they deserve compassion because you didn't choose them. I The reason I think that's important from a love-life context is because what I lacked for so much of my life was self-compassion. I thought I wasn't good enough. I thought that deep down, I was shameful. I was ugly. I was unlovable. I was bad, not a good person. I was just not... If people really knew who I was, they would think I was disgusting and pathetic and weak and unlovable.

I'm not saying all of this was I was conscious, but on some level, this must have been how I was feeling because I was really deeply afraid to be seen. I would have said, It's okay. You're okay. The way you are, it's not because you're broken or that you made choices to be there. It's that you're responding to something. That would give me self-compassion. The second thing I would say to myself is share those things. Now, I don't know how well it would have gone for me at 18 to share those things with girls my age. But in I would have said as a lesson for life, share those things because everyone else is also in all the ways you fear you're broken, everyone else is, too. If you can share that with other people, that is going to be your ultimate power. I spent my 20s, Lewis. I was coaching people, and I was lucky enough, like you, to be quite known, relatively speaking. As a 25-year-old, I made a bit of a name for myself, and a lot of people knew who I was. I never really allowed myself to truly just be myself because I was trying to be something else.

I was trying to be impressive. These days, I'm much more focused on connecting with people. You and I would never have had this interview 10 years ago. You've been trying to impress too much. I'm sure the first interview we did together was strong because it's fun sometimes when someone is being impressive. We get to watch someone do their thing. But this now, this wouldn't happen 10 years ago because I wasn't sharing myself in that way. I would say share yourself because that's the route to real connection, real friendships, real love. Then the third thing I would say to myself is have compassion for these flaws in other people. Because I spent way too much of my life writing people off or judging people for things that they were struggling with and things I didn't like about the way they did this or that or the way that insecurity showed up or the way... I Honestly, man, I look back on it now and I'm like, They were me. They were me. They only didn't know that that was me because I wasn't being vulnerable with them. I didn't even offer them the ability to have compassion with my deeper flaws or my insecurities or my vulnerabilities because I never shared them.

You didn't reveal them. No, because I judge those things in myself. When you judge them in yourself, you judge them in other people. The more in my life I've developed space for myself and who I am, the more compassionate I've become with myself, the more compassionate I've become with other people, the greater my capacity to love other people for who they really are is. I think that's such a big point to me. One of the comments that I read a lot in self-development circles is like, it's really hard to meet someone when you've upped your game in life and you now are someone who is growth-oriented and you're doing this and you're doing that and whatever. It's like your pull shrinks because you're just so awesome and everyone else sucks.

You're so cautious and everyone else is unconscious.

That's basically the subtext is that, why is it so hard now that everyone sucks and I'm great? I have to say, I have found a slightly different experience to be true. I have found it easier to love other people the more that I have learned to love myself and the more compassion I've developed for my own complexities and the things that make me a difficult and complicated and somewhat damaged and whatever person. It's made me able to love other people more because now that I'm making more space for myself, I also make space for the way that other people are and the things that Those things on the surface that are easy to judge, the deeper wounds that those things represent that they're struggling with. It makes me emotional as I say it, because I think that I have found it easier to love. I think that having that compassion for yourself breeds compassion for other people. I would say, Stop judging other people so much and have compassion for who they are because they're you.

This is beautiful, man. Make sure you guys get a copy of the book, lovelifebook. Com. Check it out. Matthew Ose. Thanks, brother. I appreciate you, man. Thanks, man. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple podcast, and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at luishouse. I really love hearing the feedback from you, and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness. Com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.