You just have to keep training your mind. And I think sometimes people forget that part, that training your mind is so important. If you want to be strong mentally, train to be strong mentally. A tennis icon, she has won 73 titles, four olympic gold medals, and seven grand slams in her career that has spanned two decades. Please, everybody, welcome Venus Williams. Also, you have to think about the decisions you would make if you weren't afraid. If I wasn't afraid, what shot would I actually go for? What would I try? What would I give up? A lot of times, not even about going for it. Or actually, what would you leave behind? Just embracing unapologetically who you are and what you look like. This is me. This is what you get. This is my brand. Just knowing who you are and not having to apologize for it. When you find what you're passionate about, it just clicks, right? It's important to get connected to what you love.

I think a lot of people struggle with building a good identity for themselves. Do you ever think about identity, or do you just tie it towards kind of your values, your self confidence, and your belief system? Or do you think about identity in a different way?

That's an interesting question. No one's ever asked me that, but I think identity is.

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the school of greatness. Today's episode is truly special because we're honored to be joined by a true champion. The one and only Venus Williams is here to share her experience as a woman in sports and the vital importance of building body confidence. Did you know that a staggering 45% of girls drop out of sports by the age of 14 due to low body confidence? But fear not, because Dove, in partnership with Nike, is on a mission to change that narrative with their groundbreaking initiative, bodyconfident sport. So join us as we dive deep into this transformative conversation and visit dove.com slash confident sports to learn more about how you can join the movement. Let's keep her confident. And now, without further ado, let's jump into this episode with Venus Williams.

Welcome back, everyone, to the school of greatness. I'm very excited about our guest today. We have the inspiring and iconic Venus Williams in the house. Good to see you, Venus. How you doing?

I'm great. How are you guys?

I'm very good. Very excited that you're here. I just want to read a quick little bio about you because it's so impressive to hear about the results that you've done in your life and behind the results. Every time that people have a lot of big accolades and results, I always know that there's an incredible human being and soul behind the results. So I want to talk about both of these, but I want to let people know a little bit about you if they're not aware of the incredible success that you've created. You're a former world number one in both singles and doubles. You won seven grand slam single titles, five at Wimbledon and two at the US Open. And olympic gold medalist and widely regarded as one of the greatest tennis players of all time. And so many more accomplishments. That's just the scratching the surface. But you're an also incredible human being. You care about humanity, and you have a big heart and a beautiful soul. And so I wanted to connect with you on both. How you've been able to translate your mindset, your ability to care deeply about the things you love and the people that you love, and how you've been able to translate into your profession, into your efforts in the world as well.

So welcome to the school of greatness. I'm very excited that you're here.

Thank you. Good to be here.

Now, I'm curious. Something that I love about you is that I've witnessed about you. This is us connecting for the first time. But the things that I've witnessed about you in your career that I love watching is your incredible self belief. And I've watched your career for many years and watched your consistency of believing in yourself. And I'm a big believer that self belief is one of the greatest skills that we can develop in order to accomplish our goals and dreams. And I'm curious, did you always believe in yourself, or was there a period of time that you lacked confidence, that you didn't think you were any good, or you didn't think you were worthy of believing in or loving yourself?

You said, were there moments where I felt like that?

Was there ever moments like growing up where you didn't feel like you had self belief? Because it always seems like you have it. But did you ever struggle with that?

Yeah, I do hate to be one of those annoying persons that didn't struggle with that, but I didn't. I was also very oblivious as a child. I had a real childhood. I was a kid. I didn't think about what I looked like. I didn't have the best outfits or the best hair or any of those things. So if I would have actually looked at it, I probably would have been very self conscious. But I think I was just so oblivious that I didn't even know to think about that stuff.

Really?

Yeah. I just had a great childhood in the sense where we just went and we played tennis, we went to school, we went to church, and my whole world was my family and my parents and my mom and my dad. So whatever they told us was golden. It's like, believe in yourself, okay? Believe in yourself. Have confidence. Okay? Have confidence. You're going to be great. Okay. I'm going to be great. And obviously, there's a lot of work that went behind it, but it was almost like drinking the Kool aid, right? We drank the Kool aid, and so there was no room for any other kind of outside influence to get involved or get in the way. So I was lucky in that sense.

Interesting. Why do you think so many people struggle with self confidence and self belief today? Is it social media? Outside influences? Is it people just don't think they're good enough? How come you were able to drink the koolaid and stay in that environment and not let outside forces creep in?

Yeah, I think that's important. And I think there's a difference between having self belief at your core and having situational moments where you don't feel good about it. Right. There's 100 times more that I've walked on the court and just didn't feel great. I don't know if I can do this. Right. So that's different than ultimately, deep down, knowing I have what it takes to do it. So those are two different things. Right. So I would say, yeah, there have been plenty of times where I was like, oh, my God. But at the end, I always felt like I was worthy and that I deserved it. And that's purely my background. It was purely my parents who just gave us that from the very beginning. There was nothing else I ever heard since I could remember. So I was very fortunate in that sense. And I think as an adult, I've definitely faced some moments where I have felt like I don't know if I belong here.

Really?

Yeah. That felt like.

What situations do you mean?

I guess they call it imposter syndrome.

Really?

Yes. I've had different moments. I'm working with a new AI company, interior design. I'm thinking, should I really be here? I mean, I have a background in interior design. And then I had to fundraise for the first time. This was a nightmare for me, really. And, oh, my God, the anxiety and the issues going into it was horrible. And that's the moment where I understood impostor syndrome. So I went through my whole life of pretty much feeling like king of the court. And then I get there and have to raise money. I'm like, I don't want to be here. I'm so afraid what's happening? So I think that was a great experience for me, and I think that I saw it for what it was, and I knew I had to push through, but it was extraordinarily uncomfortable.

Really? What was so uncomfortable about it? Was it doing something you've never done before, like getting out of your comfort zone and asking to raise money for something that maybe you're new at? Is that what it was?

Exactly. My parents, once again, back to them, my mom said, never ask for anything. So just for me that to have to ask, like, we're raising money, we need you to give us this. Oh, no, I have to ask for money. This is out of my DNA. I don't ask for anything. I'm used to be able to do everything for myself. Also just a pitch, like in AI. I don't know anything about AI. I had to learn new terror. What am I doing here? Just in general, I think on the second call, the person I was pitching with, they fell off. So they asked me, okay, yeah. What are next steps in the timeline? And I'm all by myself, and you.

Have to say something.

And so those kinds of things happen, and you're completely unprepared, and it's like, how do you deal with it? But I absolutely think that my experience in sport helped me to deal with that kind of dealing with ambulicty. It's not easy, but sometimes you don't know what's going to happen when you walk on the court, but you have to deal with it. So I think that helped, but by no means. It was a tough situation. Do I ever want to fundraise again? Absolutely not. I hope I don't have to. It's not a place I'd like to be, but it was good to be very humbled.

Yeah. Wow. What do you think was the greatest skill that you developed in your training on the court and as an athlete that you're able to translate into these moments of raising money for a business?

Well, I mean, it's hard to pick one. Right? I'm a workhorse. I don't mind working day and night. I'll work all day, work all night, and start over again. Repeat. I think that lack of fear of laying it on the line, blood, sweat, tears, leave your heart out there. Walk off on a stretch, or not even walk off, be carried off on a stretcher. So that kind of thing, not being afraid of hard work, I think a lot of people are afraid of that level of intensity, but that's honestly what it takes to succeed. People who are succeeding. A lot of times you see folks, when they get to the finish line, the trophies up, right, they played a beautiful match or created an unbelievable business. Now you see them and they're at billions. You never heard of them before. You didn't see them the ten or 15 years that they put in. You didn't see their failures beforehand. No one sees the injuries that you have around the court when you just can't get it right and the frustration and the back and forth and the losses. So all of those things really teach you all the lessons you need in life.

And the failures, too, the failures that you have to get back up and you still have to believe in yourself just as much. And if you don't still pretend at least that you do, sometimes just faking it is enough. Sometimes you don't know how you're going to get there. And I think being okay with not knowing, but knowing that there is a point a to point B, and you got to get to point B. It's okay not to exactly know, but you know, you're swimming through the water, you're climbing the mountain. Whatever you face, you have to do it on your terms.

Wow. Have you ever been afraid of failure? Or have you just been confident? Really?

For sure, everyone is. But you can't let it stop you. My mom always said fear is a devil. And also, you have to think about the decisions you would make if you weren't afraid. If I wasn't afraid, what shot would I actually go for? What would I try? What would I give up? Also if I weren't afraid, a lot of times, not even about going for it or actually, what would you leave behind?

Interesting.

A lot of times we hang on to stuff that's just holding us back. And also, if you aren't afraid, then you can actually look at yourself. I think sports teaches you self awareness, and I have a real thing for not being self aware and being around people who aren't self aware. It bothers the heck out of me.

Right?

If you're not self aware, if you do not tell yourself the truth, you will not win.

Wow.

That's. What about winning and being honest with yourself?

What's the thing, speaking of holding on to things, what's the thing that you in your life held onto for the longest period that once you let go of it, allowed you to step up in a greater way as an athlete or a human or in business? What was that thing.

This is going to sound weird, but I'm a person who's always involved in the arts. And when you are buying art for me, I buy or look at art that I love because it makes me happy and I find it beautiful. There is no category I don't buy, just this or that. And so over the years, when you look back, you're like, I should have gotten that piece. I thought about it, or I should have invested in this artist. And it's about buying work that you love and you get to live with it. Right? And so I would walk through art fairs and everywhere you looked was someone else that I just didn't get. That has blown up now. And I think finally, once I let it go, I felt such peace. Just like, such peace of, like, it's fine. That was hard. And I know that's a weird answer.

So the letting go of, oh, I should have invested in this. I should have taken this action and beating yourself up, you let that part of you go.

For that, I had to let that go. And now I feel free.

That's good.

I know you weren't expecting that answer.

No. Whatever's on your heart and mind, regret. What do you think has been the emotion that you held onto for too long in your life that when you let go, allowed you to be a better human being, a better athlete, a better person in your family? Really?

No.

Or beliefs? Or beliefs.

I don't know. I don't hold on to things. I think that's one of my strengths that I can do, let go outside of that art thing. But things happen as they happen. I think I would hold on to things if I was continuing to make the same mistakes over and over. But I'm human. I make mistakes. Sometimes I make a decision that could have been better, but I learn from it immediately. I set responsibility for it and I move on. And I think that's all you can do, right? So you can't hold on to stuff unless you have a time machine and you can go backwards, but otherwise there's no point.

What would you say your parents, obviously, I think a lot of people know about your parents making a big impact in your life. You speak about them a lot. What would you say was the greatest lesson that each of your parents taught you growing up that you still hold on to today and implement today in your life?

Yeah. You know what? That's hard because there were so many lessons. You have to understand. Everything was a lesson. Even watching a cartoon was a lesson. There was nothing that wasn't a lesson. So I'm so grateful for that. And as I've had time to spend around my nieces, I just feel like I've just totally failed because I feel like I haven't made anything a lesson yet. I got to bring my parents energy to this, but I think one of the biggest gifts my parents gave me was spirituality. It's so important to have something to believe in. It's so important to have hope. The world's a beautiful place, but it's a tough place, too. And if you don't have belief in values, you will do anything, and then you'll get anything. If you don't have hope, it's going to be hard to get through this world where so many things happen and it's not even to you, but to other people that you hear about. That is so disheartening. So all that is very grounding. And I think it helps you to let go of stuff. It helps you to play better in your game. It helps you to realize, like, I'm going to give my everything to this.

And if I fail, that's fine. I have something bigger and better that's backing me up. And I think it just lets you be happy. So to me, that's the biggest gift that they gave me. I'm just like my mom, though. My family jokes. Transformation complete. We're exactly the same.

And I'm proud of that.

I love being just like her. But we have our weaknesses. We definitely have weaknesses.

What is your weakness that you think you could improve on?

Zero patience. Me, I can't always read the room as well as I like. My emotional intelligence isn't as high as I'd like it to be. And that's not something I fix. You're born how you are. And I just tell people I'm empathetic, but I don't always pick out Bonnet. Just tell me, I'll be there.

Just may not know.

So you got to let me in on some things. And I think once I became aware of it, because during COVID I had a friend stay with me, and the friend came and ate all the food, drank all the drinks, didn't get groceries. So I'm like, buying food, buying drinks, buying groceries, paying the rent. It was everything because we thought it was going to be a few weeks and it lasted months. Right? It was a fun experience, but I had to learn how impatient I was. And also the standard I hold for myself is so high. But because of the standard my parents held, like, we weren't even allowed to walk slow. My dad would say, a slow walker, slow thinker. You can't walk slow. So everything was fast. Quick. So I learned to do things so quickly, so fast, so efficient that then someone else is in your house and you see that they're moving so slow. You're like, this could be done in a minute. What are you doing? And my house is someone else's. So I never complained about it. But it was like, buy some groceries. Like, you can't just eat all the food.

So I learned a lot about myself, and I realized that I needed to work on my Eq. And then I realized that some people had more of it and others don't. So my family helps me understand things in situations. They're like my crutch.

Do you feel like you're just overly generous and you're not thinking, oh, is this person just taking advantage? Or just maybe they weren't thinking about contributing?

No, not even that. But, like, at once, I was at a party and I was talking to some friends, and then one of my friends came over, and when she left, everyone said, what's wrong with her? She seems horribly sad, and I never saw it. And so I said, wait, let me go check on her. So those are things like, I will never see. And it's not because I don't want to. It just goes over my head. So those kinds of things I've seen, I can't improve on. That's why I tell people I care about. It's like I have this thing that it doesn't work as well as others. So just tell me everything.

Sure. I'm curious about your mindset against someone like yourself who has accomplished so much at the highest level in the world at what you do. Can you break down a little bit on how you think before entering a big moment in your life, in your sport, or in the business you're building? Is there a process that you think about when you're going to enter the arena of whatever you're working on? Is there a mantra, a process? Do you visualize something? Do you release something? Can you just walk through a little bit about that process?

Before we jump back into our powerful conversation with the legendary Venus Williams, I want to take a moment to thank our sponsor, Dove, for their incredible body confidence sport initiative in partnership with Nike. Now, I'm still wrapping my head around the statistic I shared earlier in this interview, that nearly half of all girls drop out of sports by the age of 14 due to low body confidence. I also want to emphasize that the bumps scrapes or bruises they might endure aren't what's stopping girls from playing sports. It's the low body confidence, and 45% is not a statistic we can ignore. I'm so honored to support dove on their mission to change that narrative and ensure every girl has the chance to stay in the game and feel confident in their own skin. And I'm grateful that Venus Williams is here today to help get this message out about the importance of body confidence in sports and share her inspiring journey. But listening to this episode is just the first step in taking action. You can be a part of this transformative movement by visiting Dove.com slash confidenceports together. Let's keep her confident. All right, time to dive deeper into Venus's incredible story.

Her triumphs, her challenges, and her insights on work, happiness, and the crucial role of effort over results. Trust me, you don't want to miss the rest of this conversation. So let's get back to this episode with the one and only Venus Williams.

I think the process changes depending on the moment you are in life, right? I think you have these moments as an athlete or in business or in life where you're on top of the world. You can do nothing wrong. Everything's golden. Then you like, okay, it's great. You're in a flow, right? And then you have other moments where it's not great. And so you have to be more cognizant of that process. Be super self aware and really extract out what you're feeling and figure out what part is real and what isn't because we can get the feels right. And you have to distract, like, what is just a feeling and what is the issue. And I do that by journaling, really. I just start writing what I'm feeling. And then once I start writing down all the things I'm feeling, then I'm able to recognize this is actually the one thing that's real is the issue. The rest is just a bunch of other stuff that's just floating in my head, and I can get rid of the fluff and then focus on the real thing that's bothering me. I think also a lot of being about being your best is just preparation.

You cannot be great without the preparation, and you can't feel good about what you're doing unless you've done the work. So the greats are doing the work. They're putting in the work day in, day out. If you're in finance, you're up all night reading whatever that is that it takes to do that. Being on top of your industry, thinking, literally just sitting and thinking and meditating about what you like to accomplish. And it's the same in sport, too. You sit and you meditate about what you'd like to accomplish. So being great is intentional. And then when you're in a bad place, also getting out of it is also intentional, too. But it's just realizing where you are and applying what you need to succeed, no matter where you are. And I think when you're in a bad place, you just have to realize that a lot of it is also mental, too. You can just. What I try to tell myself is that this moment I'm anticipating what might happen. That could be bad, but anticipation is just that. It's not even real, right? What if something great happened? What if something amazing could happen?

What if I could make that happen? And it's like changing your thought around things is so powerful and it's not easy and you have to constantly work on it. But if you put in the work, your mind will change just like anything else. If you go to the gym and do those biceps for six weeks, you're going to see some improvement. So if you flex your mind in a different way, instead of saying, I can't for six weeks, if you say I can for six weeks, your mind goes on a completely different pathway. And it's so powerful and so true and it's not easy. And you have to continually do it. Once you do it just once, it doesn't just stick. You just have to keep training your mind. And I think sometimes people forget that part, that training your mind is so important. If you want to be strong mentally, train to be strong mentally.

I love that. How do you train to stay strong mentally? Personally?

Yeah, for sure. First is preparation. Right. Doing the preparation, that's ground zero.

Doing the work, part of the reps.

Yeah, putting in the work, whatever that may be, you have to put in the work. So if you don't do that, you're never going to be great. You're never going to be mentally strong or whatever it is you'd like to achieve. Once you put in the work, then you realize what you're good at, what you're not. Me personally, I think there's probably a lot of people who are smarter who are going to get that 1600 on the SAT. I'm probably not going to get the 1600, but my strength is that I'm extremely logical and I notice patterns. I'm very quick in those sorts of things. So then I have to set myself up in a way that plays to my strengths. Not everyone's going to have the same strengths. Not everyone's going to be good at everything. But once you've done your work and you see your strengths, then you got to figure out a way to play to that. And then always, of course, work on your weaknesses over time and those at some point can come up, too, until you're like this complete player ready, player one. Let's play this game to win.

If we're going to play, let's win, or else there's no need to play.

Absolutely. I think a lot of people want to win at whatever game they're playing in life or their career or their business or their sport. They want to be more successful. They want to win. And it seems like more than ever, society, at least in America, american society, seems like everyone lower. Lots of people want to become more famous, wealthy and successful. And the more people I interview and ask about this who have fame, wealth and success, they talk about the pressures that come with that. Can you share a little bit about how you were? Did you feel like you were mentally and emotionally prepared when you became a world icon in your sport and you started to gain popularity, fame, success, money? Did you feel you were mentally and emotionally prepared, or was that a challenge, or was it a lot of pressure?

At first, I think I was aware of the pressure. I started really young. My first promatch was 14. So a lot of it, though, the youth and the inexperience is in some way a protection. You just don't really get it.

You don't know.

Yeah, but also, it can go the other way, too. And I think there were some matches where I felt pressure to perform up to maybe what I was supposed to be like, this hype. But at the end of the day, I failed sometimes. And then that failure was a lesson and I learned from it. And so that was like, even though I failed, it was still a step up. Yeah, it wasn't a step down because I learned something and I got more determined. So I think that a lot of what people want today is based on what they think other people have. And social media. I think that's a lot of pressure for young people, too, to be successful immediately. No one's successful that young. I was successful young, but I started playing tennis at four and I put in a decade.

Wow.

Before I even went pro. So, yes, it was young, but there was millions of hours of work that happened before that happened. Nothing happens that fast. And really, the process is the most joy I find. Right. When you can't figure something out or you do figure it. Once you figure it out and you've put in the work and you find the right process, and you're able to repeat that process over and over and over again. The sense of pride and accomplishment that you get, not from the success, but the work you put in to get there, that's where the happiness comes from.

Wow.

And I think there might be a generation now that doesn't understand that, that there's so much pride in your work. Like, what you do. Work is a part of your happiness. You don't want to circumvent that. That's a part of who you are. That accomplishment, accomplishing things gives you confidence and happiness. And so if you are empty because you've skipped that process, then it's something to look at.

Wow. I mean, it's interesting you say this. You say you were kind of young and maybe innocent and wasn't aware of certain things, and that's maybe why it didn't impact you or create a lot of overwhelm and stress. But there's a lot of either child stars or actors or young musicians who have a lot of fame and success and money quickly and then go through years of depression or drug addiction and fall apart. So there was something that you had that a lot of people at your age never figure out.

Yeah.

Do you think that a lot of that was just the community had with your parents and just the process you were in and the values you developed, or was it something else?

Two things. Just having a great support system, my family. Because when you're winning, everybody's texting you. There's people that, I call them the finals mongers. They're like, oh, if you get to the finals, I'll come. And I'm like, you absolutely will not be coming to the finals. You will come to the first round. Like, the first rounds have to be played. There's the first and the second, and there's moments for the final. It's like, no, you won't come to the final.

Show up in the beginning, and then you could stay at the end.

Exactly. So everyone's there for you when you're winning. When you're winning, everyone's sending you a text, you lose a match. There aren't that many people who are there. And then those people were my family. Those people were my sisters who believed in me every time. And they said, you'll get the next one. When you're feeling sad and low and you feel like you could have done better, those moments, they were there for me. And I knew that it didn't matter what happened. I had something else to fall back on. So a strong support system is so important, and knowing that the effort you give is so much more important than the result.

Right.

You could sleep at night if you just left it all out there. Absolutely. Those are the values that are super important. So that way, you don't feel, like, that sort of confusion where you kind of lose it. I had that, and like I said earlier, the strong spiritual background. And my dad, when we walked on the court, he would always say, have fun, he would say. Sometimes he'd say, look at the ball, too, which, weirdly enough, is extremely important. Even the pros will not look at the ball because you're, like, looking where you're hitting because you want to hit a good shot so bad, you have to look at the ball. But sometimes you say, look at the ball, but you always say, have fun. And so I had that support of that I could possibly have fun, more fun. You win. But that was the only expectation, and I knew that they wanted more from me, but to know that I didn't have to come off the court and hear yelling or. I've seen players where they.

You should have done this. Yeah.

Sprints, and it's crazy. None of that. It's just a hug, and that's all we need in life is that love.

I mean, I remember running suicides and running miles after losing football games, staying on the basketball court after you lose while people are still in the arena and our coach telling us to run suicides after we just exhausted ourselves. Did you ever feel like you got punished after a loss?

No. Nothing was worse than the punishment that I felt like internally, that my expectation of myself, and I think that's a good thing and a bad thing. You got to temper it. Right. Sometimes your expectations can be. You can be so hard on yourself that you never pat yourself on the back enough, but some people aren't hard enough on theirselves, and so then they never make it. You got to find the middle. The middle ground of being hard, but also recognizing the things you accomplish, too.

Yeah. And not holding on to it for days or weeks of a loss.

Yeah. That's easier said than done. We hold on to our losses, whether we realize it or not. And you just have to think about, it's a new day, like, absolutely new possibility, and that's not easy.

Absolutely. But it sounds like you got a great support system around you. And speaking of support, your sister Serena has been a big impact in your life. Can you tell me about maybe a challenging moment that you had during a performance, a match, a tournament where you were struggling and she intervened and supported you with your mindset, or a reminder. Can you share a story about that?

We were once playing like a Wimbledon doubles final, and Serena was playing the Wimbledon final, and I had such a stomach ache, and I just thought, it's going to pass, it's going to pass. I just kept taking medicine, so I warmed up before for the doubles before her match. I couldn't even eat. My stomach hurt so bad. I was in her match. Like, I didn't even realize it was match point because I was, like, out of my mind. And I'm thinking, it's going to pass, it's going to pass, it's going to pass. So finally, we had 2 hours to prepare for the match after her singles, and I'm just thinking, it's still going to pass this hours later. And she was smart. I don't know why I didn't figure this out. She got the doctor, made sure I got the right medicine I needed. Unfortunately, for our opponents, it would have been better if there was like 50% of the team there. And I don't know why I couldn't figure it out. I didn't even know what was wrong. I just thought it was going to pass normally. It did. If I had just taken the normal medicine I took and she fixed it for me, and that was huge.

We got another title, and I was actually finally able to eat something so that we would have some energy for the match. So, yeah, those kinds of things. And that's a huge example. But other things, too, like small ones, just a small text or how do I play this person? Like, sending extensive notes, those really things.

Will she give you those notes and kind of feedback?

Yeah. How did you play her? How did you beat her? Let me know. Those kinds of things. Yeah.

That's cool.

Yeah.

That must be nice to have that kind of support and that inside thought process on how to win as well.

Yeah. It's an interesting experience because all I know is playing tennis with my sister. To me, it sounds weird to not do that. And I know pretty much every athlete's experience is not playing tennis or sports with their sister. And I can't imagine people having to go through that by themselves. And I know exactly what she's feeling on the court when I'm watching her playing because I've been there and I know what it feels like, and I'm like, we feel that for each other.

Wow. Do you think you know her more than she knows you.

Oh, wow. That's a good question. She has a lot more emotional intelligence than I do. Like, huge amounts. So she might know more about me than I know about her. She's good at that stuff. She's good at that stuff. She has that skill.

I'm curious about the way you think about identity, because I think a lot of people struggle with building a good identity for themselves. Do you ever think about identity, or do you just tie it towards kind of your values, your self confidence, and your belief system? Or do you think about identity in a different way?

That's an interesting question. No one's ever asked me that, but I think identity is a lot of things. It's being proud of who you are and your heritage. Right. Knowing who you are is so important. Knowing your history, that can be as simple as knowing your family. For me, as African American, there was a time where it wasn't easy to be african American. Maybe it wasn't easy to be proud of who you were. So different kinds of people have different experiences that could make it more challenging or less challenging to be proud of who you are. Or depending on where you are, you might get teased because of who you are. Right. So, first of all, it's just embracing unapologetically who you are and what you look like. This is me. This is what you get. This is my brand. Sometimes that joke is like, you knew what brand you were getting when you entered this and you still decided to come. Just knowing who you are and not having to apologize for it, and I think that's so important. Knowing what you like and what you love. I think if you don't know who you are, I think get out there and experimenting, try new stuff, expose yourself to new things.

Maybe you aren't in the right calling for your work. Maybe your identity will be easier to know if you're doing something that you love. I think continually to try new things and have new experiences. Meeting new people that you can learn from, I think is important, too. It helps you get closer to who you are. I mean, I personally will always identify as a tennis player, even when I'm in a cane. God willing, I'll get old enough to be walking with a cane. We identify as athlete. That's who I am at the core. And as much as I would say, oh, I'm more than an athlete. I'm a human being. That's who I am, because I found my passion. I think finding your identity, too, is finding your passion. When you find what you're passionate about it just clicks, right? So it's important to get connected to what you love.

That's really cool. One of the reasons we're talking today is because you've teamed up with dove to raise awareness about the body confident sport program, which I think is really cool. It's a first of its kind online coaching program developed in partnership with Nike to build body confidence in eleven to 17 year old girls, which I think is really cool. And one of the things I was asking you about earlier was kind of the identity of the younger generation and the lack of self belief and self confidence that I feel like the younger generation might have today, or the confusion around how to build confidence. Can you share, and I think this speaks into building a confident identity. Can you share your passion for really starting to shift the conversation from appearance to capability and your own personal journey, given the insights in this issue?

There's this movie called mean girls. I don't know if you've seen it.

I haven't seen it, but I've seen the commercials for it.

Yeah, the girl gets mean and in the end she's in this math contest, right? And she said it doesn't matter if I make fun of this girl because of how she looks or what she does, it's not going to make her not answer this question more. I have to find something in myself to answer this question, right? So I can win this math lead, whatever it is, right? So it's so important, it doesn't matter what you look like, it matters what's inside of you that you can get out to live the life that you want to live and figuring out what that life is and that having other people's approval or none of those things really matter, that doesn't help you get out of bed. So those things are really important. And Dove, I'm so happy to team up with Dove because body confidence sport, the program is so important for young girls between the age of eleven to 17. And the research has shown that about 45% of girls globally quit sports by the age of 14. And that's due to low body confidence. And when I think about what if that happened to me, I turned pro at 14.

What if I had stopped sports at age 14 because I didn't feel good about myself? This is literally my life. I got to play sports and change my life. And through that, that was never my plan. I just wanted to win Wimbledon, change other people's lives just by doing something positive for yourself. You never know what impact you're going to have on not only yourself, but the world. I had no idea that was going to happen and just wanted to lift the trophy. So it's so important, when I look at that, how it could have happened to me that it doesn't happen to other girls. Not everyone goes pro. Not everyone becomes an athlete. But what you learn from sports is unparalleled. You cannot teach in a classroom or in a book what you learn from sports. I think Suri and I were once were laughing, not laughing, but we were like, is this like, there's different books? And we were like, oh, this certain school is writing a book and a series on how to be resilient. We're like, yeah, just get out there and push yourself physically. You'll learn resilience. You start pushing yourself to get your mile time down, you will learn resilience quickly.

You don't have to read a book to learn it. You will figure it out because you will have to stay resilient to beat yourself and to beat that clock, and you don't even need a racket to experience that. So it's so important for girls to have that opportunity in sports, and it's so important also to have that impact on coaches and the coaching program that dove has to make sure that coaches are getting girls in that right direction, giving them the right feedback so they can feel good about themselves and about their bodies and stay in sports. I'm so excited to be in this program because it's literally my life.

It's really cool that dove is supporting this. And I'm curious, why do you think so many young women and so many young girls struggle with body confidence? And more importantly, I guess, why do they care so much about what other people think about their body versus kind of what you went through? You weren't really thinking about it. You just said, I want to win. It doesn't really matter how I look. I guess as long as I win, that's what matters. How were you not affected with the body confidence challenges then that a lot of young women have today?

I was asking my niece, and I was like, oh, what do you do at recess? And she's like, well, I play fashion school. Abyss. And I was like, yeah, but you aren't playing sports. I was like, aren't you playing four square? Are you running? Are you jumping? And she's like, well, it's hard to play with the boys, so there's different challenges. And she's, like, six years old. There's different challenges there. And also, women are much more judged for what we look like, right? Oh, she wasn't hot. Oh, she didn't have a good body. But you don't always hear that about, oh, he wasn't hot. He didn't have a good body. And women are judged from the very beginning to till they get older. And it's hard, and there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure to look the way you're supposed to look, whatever today's look might be. And women take the brunt of that. And I understand the impact of negativity that can happen in sports. I remember I was at this tournament and the reporter asked me, did I gain weight? And I took it as a challenge. It's like, okay, if you want to ask me that question, let's dive on, Dan.

I said, did I gain weight?

Where exactly did I gain it and how much? And he's like, no, I'm sorry, I withdraw the question. I was like, no, I want you to answer the question. Where did I gain the weight? Where do you see it? I put on maybe five pounds, like five pounds. On a six one frame.

Let's go.

Five pounds on my dog, who's ten pounds. Okay, you're going to see it. But on a six one frame, how hard can you be? So I've personally had to go through the most ridiculous questions that they're never going to ask a guy that, did you gain weight? It's a lot of pressure. So this kind of program is developed specifically to prevent that. And also, even coaches who might be well meaning might say, oh, you need to lose weight to be able to compete harder, or you need to get more muscle, and maybe a girl may feel uncomfortable with getting more muscle. So how do you word things in the right way to keep girls in sports? So this program is developed specifically for coaches that's scientifically proven to build body confidence for girls in that age so they can not only stay in sports, but enjoy it. Associate sports with joy, not associate sports with something that's sad and depressing because you don't stay in anything that's depressing.

No. If you feel like you're not good enough or you don't look good enough or you feel like you're not celebrated for your gifts and your talents, this is really cool. I'm curious, what do you think is the number one thing that parents or coaches can say to someone who maybe doesn't look perfect as the perfect athlete or whatever at their age? What can they say? Or how can they encourage them in the right ways to make them feeling more confident about themselves to want to continue the sport as opposed to feeling like I give up and I'm going to go worry about my looks all day.

It's all about what your body can do for you, right? So I think using these kinds of terms of you need to eat to fuel your body, so make sure you're having lots of vegetables and enough protein. Really talking about that endpoint, inviting them to talk about anything that might be making them feel uncomfortable. It's important to never comment on someone's body or appearance. However you're born with your genetics or whatever you might be going through at that age, puberty and whatever it might be, those are tough times. I think inviting talk about how they feel, letting them just express that and then letting them know that your body's beautifully made and that your body is serving you to do this wonderful sport. And I think listening also is just so important because sometimes someone might feel a way that they're holding into that you might just need to hear. Just commenting on body appearance, though, is always a no no, right? You need to lose weight or you're not looking muscle enough. Those kinds of things. My kind of frame, I'll just never look like I have a lot of muscle, even though I do always joke that my calves are like putters.

It's never going to happen for me. That's my body type. And as an athlete, I always wanted bigger quads and it just was never going to happen. So I had to just deal with whatever I had and realize I was still strong, even though it maybe didn't exactly look like it.

Right. I've heard this from female friends of mine that a lot of, and I don't know if this is true or not, but this is what I've heard from some female friends, that a lot of women, when they're going out on a date or with friends, they're really trying to impress the other girlfriends with the way they look and their appearance. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I've heard from some women. Do you think young women in their teens are more concerned about their girlfriends opinions of them or kind of the peer guy friends they have in school or in sports? And where is the pressure coming from? More from female girls, kind of. You mentioned this movie mean girls. Is it more of like these girls are mean or really they're worried about what a guy is going to say about them? I'm not sure.

I think it's all the above, right? You don't want to be the one with the wrong outfit, or you don't look like whoever it is that's, like, the most popular, and that group of girls and the popular guys may never talk to you. It definitely comes from both ends. And then at the end of the day, you take all those inputs and then you take them on yourself, and then you judge yourself so hard, and then that's the worst one, the judging of yourself. Right. And that's when you have to realize, our young girls need to realize that you can't judge yourself by someone else and someone else's life. I think I've been very successful, and I've won grand slams. My sister's won, like, three times as many more. Like, what if I judge myself by her success? I would never feel great about me, and her success is my success. So you have to be happy for whatever someone else has and realize you have your own gifts as well that they may not have either. And just celebrate yourself every single time. Put on your blinders, celebrate you.

Not many people can not care what other people think about them, but it sounds like you figured out how to do this from an early age and been consistent throughout your life and career. I think that's one of the hardest things to do, to not care what other people think about you and not let those inputs you talked about make you believe that you're not enough. What piece of advice do you have for a mom or a father who's got a daughter that maybe doesn't believe in themselves and is taking in so many inputs from peers and society and social media that they're not pretty enough, they're not good enough, they're not worthy enough of feeling love and accepting who they are. What piece of advice would you have to parents who have those young daughters out there today?

Right. I know sometimes coming from the parents, they'll be like, oh, well, you're my parent. You have to love me. But it's still important to say it. It's still important to say, you're amazing, you're smart, you're fantastic. If you're not saying it, who else is, right? So you have to still say that, even if it becomes a broken record. That's so important, even from a coaching standpoint. I always just did better when I had someone on the court who was, I've hit a million forehands. I still need to hear that my forehand looks good. I still need someone to say, great job today. So that's so important to still give that positive feedback and just remember that people are worried about their own lives. At the end of the day, they're not even worried about your life. They're worried about their life. They didn't wake up, brush their teeth in the morning, say, I wonder what Susie's doing. I wonder why she doesn't think she's cute. No, none of that. They're worried about what they're trying to do. And once you figure out that the dialog you have in your head is your own dialog and everybody else is doing their own thing, the quicker you'll figure out how to just focus on you.

It sounds like your parents reinforced in a positive way daily with you. Isn't that right? They weren't like, you need to do better. You're not doing good enough. They were always positive, is what it sounds like.

Yeah. Growing up, my dad told my sister and I we'd be number one and two in the world. He always told us that. Okay, so granted, that doesn't just happen, right? It almost has to be a perfect storm, right? The center of a storm, it somehow works out. It doesn't always work out. And there was a lot of work, like endless work. That's all we did was play tennis. And then you have to do it the right way, and then you'd have to not get injured. Anything could happen along the way.

Right.

But what was important was that we believed that we could get there. And so then we walked on the court. Not only how we put in the work, but we also had the right mental forcement. And then he would warn us too. Like, if you don't bend your knees, you're not going to get there.

Okay, I'll bend my knees.

It wasn't all just like, Rosie, Rosie, Rosie. He was tough on us. But at the end of the day, the message was, you can do this. You have what it takes. You can absolutely be the world's best. And you have to hear that.

That's beautiful. I'm curious about. We talked about the challenges and the pressures of winning, success, maybe some fame or notoriety that a lot of people struggle with. And a lot of times when people achieve their dreams or their goals at the top of their industry or their sport, they don't always stay there forever. No one stays at the top forever in their thing. Right? There's a transition. You've been at the top, but then you've fallen off the top, but then you've been back at the top, but then you've gone up and down. There's been waves of momentum for you to get to the top and then a setback and then back to the top. And I feel like a lot of people struggle once they get to the top of whatever they're doing and they start to fall a little bit. It's really hard for them to get back. But you've done it over and over and again. And I'm not saying that you've fallen, but how, if you're not at the number one spot or the top of your game, when you've had a setback, maybe a minor injury or something, how do you build the momentum, the energy to get back on top when most people can never do that?

I think for me, realizing that I could have a great start, I could win a bunch of matches or it could go the other way, that I might have to fail a little bit along the way and not taking that failure with you or the next match. I think sometimes I still do. On the corner, you're remembering the last three matches you lost. You're like, why am I doing this to myself but still fighting through it? I think also a few things. Embracing the battle, like enjoying the battle, like this is going to be a fight. I'm going to fight my opponent, I'm going to fight my own thoughts. I'm going to fight injuries, whatever that may be. I'm going to fight bad market conditions. If you're busy, it's going to be about, you got to enjoy the battle. And then part of enjoying the battle is just knowing it's not going to be easy and not being afraid of that. When we know it's not going to be easy, it's like there's a certain amount of fear, right? You're like, oh, it's going to be horrible, but just almost embracing that pain, too, of like, it's going to be a process.

And just like recognizing and say, yeah, it's going to hurt. Instead of like, oh, it's going to hurt. It'll hurt, but we'll get through it. And it's interesting, too. We remember and tell stories about the challenges that we succeeded. No one remembers the easy games. No one remembers the easy times in the matches. The stories we tell and the ones that stick with us are those ones that went the distance. And those matter. Those matter the most because they took the most. To be able to have those war stories that's worth getting 80 years old and being able to tell that story.

Tell that story. What's the war story that you're most proud of that you had to face or overcome? That maybe is super public and everyone knows about, or maybe no one knows about, but you do. It was like something inner battle, an outer battle, something that you overcame.

I don't know. I'm like a pit bull. I'll run through a fence to my own detriment. It's not smart. I was once playing a match, and I was coming off of a hip surgery that I'd never announced. In fact, this is probably the first time I've ever said it.

Wow.

And I played this match, and I guess I came back too soon, and I'm, like, playing the match and I did something to my hip and I just screamed on the court, and so I couldn't really run or move, but I kept playing the match. This is the first set. Lose the first set, I still play the next two, and I'm stifling screams sometimes. And so it was in a grand slam. It was the Australian Open, first round. Let's just say it's Monday. I needed to play Wednesday, so I took the next day off. I played Wednesday night, took Tuesday off, took Wednesday off, didn't even play until, like, it was time to warm up for the match and didn't really move. Like, I was like, okay, I'm just going to get through this. I'm thinking it's just mental. I get on the court, I get to seven points, and I'm just trying not to scream. And I have to retire after the 7th point. The audience booze me. I go on my merry way. I never announce what happened to me, but I tore them like a muscle called the psoas in your stomach, and it goes into your leg.

I tore it three inches in this match.

Oh, man.

I just keep running and keep playing and I say, oh, it's mental. Finally, I get the mri the next day, and I'm like, oh, well, that's why it was hurting.

Wow. I just had a three inch tear in my hip.

Very crazy. I will run and play, and I've had to learn over the years. I don't even trust myself anymore, because if there's a bad decision to be made, I will make it. I will keep playing. I will play until I'm dead and buried, not 6ft under, like to the center of the earth. So I literally need people to tell me, step away. You do not play. And that's hard for someone to say. That's hard for someone to say to someone else, like, you can't play. That's my choice.

I know.

Yeah, that's definitely a Wolfson race.

Wow. But sometimes we need other people to step in and save us from our own harm that we might do to ourselves.

We do. And that's when you have a real friend, right?

Yeah. At least they can say, hey, you got to stop, and then if you don't listen, that's on you. But, Venus, I've got a couple final questions for you, but I just want to say I'm so grateful that we're connecting. I'm so excited for you on everything that you've created, your journey, and I just want to acknowledge you before I go to the final few questions. I want to acknowledge you for your consistency on how you show up as an athlete, as a human, as a sister, a daughter, a friend, all these different things. And your consistency in evolving as a human being into businesses and fashion, all the different things that you're into. I just think it's really cool that, again, your identity as athlete, but you're evolving it beyond sports and athletics as well, and you continue to grow and learn as a human being based on the conversation I'm hearing here. So I want to acknowledge you for everything that you've created, everything you're going to create, and more importantly, the human being that you are inside and the peace that you have about yourself and the belief you have. It's really inspiring to see.

Before I ask a couple final questions, I want people to check you out and follow you. Venus Williams on Instagram and social media, Twitter, Facebook, everything. They can follow you everywhere. Is there one specific place to send people to to follow you that you think they should go to the most?

Instagram or TikTok's fine.

Okay, cool. Awesome.

Thank you.

Also. Also, it's really cool that you're a part of the dove body confidence sport program. And I just think young women need these type of tools, especially when there's a lot of confusion or pressures from society that might be out there right now. I think young boys need these tools, too, but I think it's really cool that you're doing this for young girls. Where can people go and learn about dovebody confidence sport program? Is there a place that they should check out online that we should send people to? Yes, comconfidenceports, dove.com confidenceports.

That's where we go, right?

Yes, exactly. But I'm excited about that. And how can people really get involved in that? Is it something they sign up for? Is it something that's just online, that there's a curriculum, and are you a coach in this? Are you adding your take as well?

Yeah. So what I'm doing is building self awareness. I don't think that anyone thinks about it every day. Like, oh, 45% of girls are dropping off sport. What do I do? No one knows that. So awareness is super important that we know this personally. When I first started working with Dove, I thought that was not a thing anymore, that girls were dropping out of sports. I just thought that was like a time from yesteryear when girls know had a harder time getting involved. So I was shocked to hear that. I don't want that to happen. So that's important for me to get involved. And then if you go on the website, then you can find ways to get involved in the program.

Awesome.

There's different workbooks, there's different ways to get involved. So different guides that you can provide for your own family or to another girl that you think that could possibly benefit from that. So if you just get on, you'll have a chance to see it all.

Love that dove.com, confident sports to check that out. I love it. It's an inspiring program and I think it's going to help a lot of sounds like parents and their girls in sports as well, to have more confidence. These are the two final questions I have for you. Venus. Again, thanks for being here. The first one is a hypothetical question that I ask every guest that I've had on the show for the last, I don't know, eleven years almost. And I call this question the three truths. So let me set up this scenario. Imagine you get to live as long as you want to live on this earth. You get to live as many years as you want to be here, and you get to accomplish all the dreams from this moment until that last day on earth. But for whatever reason, on your last day on earth, you have to take all of your content with you. So all the videos about you, this interview, anything you ever put out online on social media, we no longer, in this hypothetical scenario, have access to your content or videos or anything like that. But on this last day, you would get to leave behind three lessons for the world.

Three lessons that you would leave behind. And this is all we would have to remember of your content. I call this the three truths on the top of your head. What would those three truths be for you?

Okay. I would say just be positive and love your life. Have fun. Number one, just have fun and just look at things. Half glass pool. Number two. It's hard to pick just two, but bet on yourself. Just always bet on you. Believe in yourself. Not always easy, but just bet on you. Number three is just give more than you take. Just be happy to give and give whatever you can. Not saying just be foolish about it. But you still want to teach men to fish. But just be about that gift. And yeah, that would be my top three.

Those are beautiful. Venus, final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness? I think it's so individual. I think it's giving everything, given all that you have. And when you do that, whether it's great or not great, the effort was great. Greatness isn't about the effort you give. And when you give that effort, put your hands up in the air, you're done. So I think that's an individual, right? Also, what's the point of being great if you're not happy? So have fun while you do it. If you're not having fun, figure out how to have fun, but you don't want to look back and be. I think we all can look back. Or you hear a song and you're like, I remember this time in my life I was sad. Or remember this time in my life when I was happy. Your life is your soundtrack. You want to look back and say, I failed a lot. Things didn't go right, but I had a good time. You should have a good time.

That's greatness, Venus. Thank you so much. Powerful information, inspiration. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for being here so much.

I appreciate you. I had a lot of fun.

Thank you so much for joining us today. What an incredible conversation with the inspiring Venus Williams. And as we wrap up, let's remember that we all play a role in creating a more inclusive and empowering landscape in athletics. With initiatives like Dove's body confidence sport in partnership with Nike, we can make a real difference in the lives of young athletes everywhere. So let's keep the momentum going. Visit dove.com slash confident sports to learn more about how you can join the movement. A big thank you again to Venus Williams for sharing her wisdom and her experience with us. I was so inspired by her lessons. And of course, I want to thank you for continually striving for greatness in your own life. And until next time, stay inspired and keep making a positive impact in the world. Let's keep her confident. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Close.