Welcome back to the School of Greatness, one of the top podcasts in the world. Today, we have the incredibly talented Zoe Deschanel. You know her as the star of the hit TV show, New Girl, and films like Almost Famous. But today, Zoe is here to share a more personal side of her story, from her recent engagement to the challenges and triumphs of her career in Hollywood. Thanks so much for joining us. I think you're going to love this. Now, let's dive in.

There were things that happened in the business that were, for a little bit, felt like we're going to be the end, right? I was like, Oh, is this the end? Am I just going to be a musician?

Really? You thought your career was over?

Yeah, I did. Really? I did. I really did. In addition to being a musician, a writer, an entrepreneur, Zoe DeChanel has been in some of our favorite movies, like Almost Famous, or starring opposite Will Farrell in the Christmas Classic Elf and the Offbeat Romantic Comedy, 500 Days of Summer. I had this thing. When I was a kid, people would look at me and laugh and be mean. And so the same feeling when everyone looks at you. And so it would remind me of that. That was really hard, actually. Really? I really wasn't prepared for it. People running up and crowding you and that stuff. Nobody gives you any playbook for that. When I let go and I'm not just going, Will they like me if I do that? When I am myself, I am successful.

What would you say since starting your career was the biggest challenge you've had to overcome?

The thing is, a lot of people see things from far away and they're like, Oh, you're so successful.

But you have Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Zoe Dechanel in the house.

So good to see you. Good to see you, too.

Very excited. In a past life, we used to be members.

It's true.

We both grew up in the '90s. Yeah. And we both got engaged around the same time.

I know.

It's incredible. So congratulations on the engagement.

Thank you. You, too. Thank you.

Thank you. Where How did you guys get engaged, by the way? Well, here's the interesting thing. I told her at the beginning of last year that by the end of the year, we'll be engaged.

Oh, good for you.

Because she wanted to start a family eventually, and she was like, What's the plan? I was like, Okay, by the end of the year, we'll get engaged. So I had a live annual event called the Summit of Greatness that I did in Columbus, Ohio, my hometown.

Your hometown.

Which I did every year. And I interviewed her on stage in front thousands of people. At the end, you'll like this, at the end of our interview, at the end of the event, I stood up and I said, Everyone, let's give it up for Martha. Everyone's clapping at the end of our conversation. Then I'm standing there in front of the audience and saying, Oh, wait a minute. I forgot. There's one question I've always wanted to ask someone on my show that I've never asked in 10 years of the show. I turned to her and I asked her, Will you marry me?

That's so sweet.

It was a cool little moment. That's really nice. Her family was there. My family was there.

That's great. It was a good moment. Was everybody... Was she surprised?

I think she was because I was planning to do it later in the year. So it was months before. So it was a good moment. That's great. Did you know that you were going to get engaged at that moment?

No, I had no idea. No, I was really surprised.

Did you guys talk about engagement?

We did, and I knew at some point it would happen, but we'd been together a long time, four years, and I just really wasn't expecting it. We were on a tour of Edinburgh Castle, which is this amazing castle, and we had the kids with us, and it was one of those things, going to a museum, you do with the kids, and they're like...

Did they know?

No. Not until the... Right before it happened, he... Jonathan went the other room to get miced up, and somehow my son saw it somehow got confused, was like, why does he have a mic on? He didn't know what a mic was, but he was like, something weird is going on. But they actually held up the sign. Oh, wow.

That's cute.

They had the sign. Yeah, it was all a big surprise. But we finished this tour of the castle, and my son had put this big, giant sticker on me. And actually earlier on the day, it was funny because Jonathan's like, We're going to this castle. We might meet the royal family. Oh, really? So you have to dress nicely. This was how it got me to not wear jeans. Wow. I mean, and I was like, Oh, okay. I was like, That's weird. I just thought it was weird. I was like, Why would they just be hanging out? It's not like a castle where people live. It's more of a museum. And I was like, Okay, that's weird. And then it was like, no hats. And I was like, also weird. It's all these rules. Yeah, there were a ton of rules in the calendar. He goes, I don't know. He's like, You better iron your clothes. And he was like, Actually, I'll iron it for you. He ironed my skirt for me. And I was like, he's really, really wants to be nice for this.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, he didn't actually tell me to do that. And my mom was actually... She was like, You need to get someone to do her hair and make up or something. And he was like, No, she's fine. Which luckily, I luckily had a manicure, all that stuff.

Maybe he knew you already had that.

He knew it. Otherwise, he might have been-I took her to go the week before.

I was like, Oh, we should go. We're going on a trip to the event.Let's get a manicure.Let's get a manicure. I was like, I'll get a foot rub or something, which I never do. But I'm like, I'll go with you. Yeah.

All these things you have to think of because they take pictures of your hands.

Exactly.

Close-up.

You know, Both of us growing up in the '90s, I'm curious. I didn't really learn about how to create healthy relationships growing up. I didn't learn. There wasn't as much tools, information, and books about love and vulnerability, and intimacy Yeah.

Not as much info, not as much accessible info.

Therapy wasn't an option growing up, really. It was more like being from Ohio is never talk about your feelings type of thing. When I got older and I started to do healing work and learn about relationships and vulnerability and intimacy, I was like, wow, there's so much more I needed to learn about love and intimacy. Since we're talking about intimacy and love. I'm curious, did you have a good toolbox of how to be in great, how to express love and receive love growing up, or was it more challenging for you to experience love?

I have such great parents and my sister is so great. I have a really great family unit that I came from, and I went to a school that was very encouraging. Basically, every year from seventh grade on at my school, we had a weekly group therapy session. Really? Yeah, it's called the Mistries program. Everybody learns how to express their feelings, and it's great. But I still have learned so much just As an adult, going to therapy, all those things I have found to be incredibly enriching to my life. I'm always learning and always discovering. I'm very much a self-improver. I'm always looking to get better. There's always something to work on, and that's always how I've been. I'm like, Give me notes. Really? I'll take them. Yeah.

I Even in acting and in your career as well?

Everything. I want to always be improving. I'm always looking to get better. That's just in everything. Because if you're just, What? I just want to stay in the middle? No. I want to keep going. I want to get better at everything all the time.

Sometimes you hear the stereotype of actors or actresses that can't take feedback because they get so criticized and they feel like they're not good enough. But you are more of like, I want to dive in and give me feedback.

You have to. I think partially, too, because I'm actually I'm actually a very direct person myself. So I'll say what's on my mind. And then if somebody pushes, yeah, I'll be like, I don't know. Tell me why. I only want to know why. But I'll push back hoping that somebody will, not a rude way, but hoping that somebody will give me why and we can come to a better understanding. I think it's like, I really want to do the best job possible. And that's always the goal. If If you are respectful and nice and you say, I don't know, I don't agree with that. But still, as an actor, it's part of the job to take direction. You have to. Wow. If you can't trust your director, then you're in You're screwed. You're screwed, yeah. Sometimes you have to push back because you don't understand, or sometimes you think maybe they have the wrong idea and you'll do a better job doing something else. I always think an actor... It's an actor's job to know the character better than anybody else. Really?

Better than the director or the producer?

Yeah, because they have a lot of things to think about. Producers thinking about very, very, very many things on the outside of the production. The director is thinking about everything overall. They certainly will have a lot of ideas about… It's more big picture. Director's more big picture. It's more micro. And every job, pretty much other than director and producer on a film set is very micro. So you have a lot of people doing very, very, very detailed work. And I think of an actor, you're just doing very, very detailed work on your character. So if you think something's off, you have to say something. But again, you also have to be able to take directions. So it's like you have to be quite flexible.

That's interesting. So you're big into growth and wanting to become better. Oh, always. Yeah. What would you say since starting your career was the biggest challenge you've had to overcome?

Oh, since starting? There's so many times where you're like... The thing is, a lot of people see things from far away and they're like, Oh, you're so successful. But you have moments of great success, and then you have moments where that success dips, especially since I started out doing movies. Movies are like, you might have a big movie, and it is marketed to everybody, and there's tons of publicity around it, and everyone's hearing about you. And then you get a ton of attention, maybe a lot of offers. You get a lot of accolades. People come up to you. You get that. And then when that marketing goes away and people aren't seeing, then those things ebb and flow a lot, and you feel it.

How does that feel like when you get all the attention for three to four months and then maybe crickets for a year, six months?

I mean, it's nice to have... For me, it's It's nice to have breaks from... If you're being... The people maybe say Taylor Swift, right? Taylor Swift can't go anywhere without. Every day. Every day. And that's challenging that you can't go. Sometimes you just want to go and be a normal person, go to the grocery store and not have people looking at you all the time. I think it's nice to have some breaks. But I definitely think that hopefully as an actor, you have a long career career, and then you go through phases of your life and you're going to fit different... As an actor, you play different parts, so you're going to fit into different categories over the course of your career, and then you have these... It can be awkward transitions between... Really?

Yeah, very much. What's the hardest transition you've had to make in your career?

I don't know if I would say... I mean, it's definitely like... I mean, I really did I think about... I mean, it wasn't even my... It wasn't even... There were things that happened in the business that were maybe for us, for a little bit, felt like we're going to be the end, right? Because I do music, too. And I was like, there was a time I remember it was like I was doing indie movies, my whole 20s, and was successful at that and doing it. And then some bigger comedies and stuff like that. And all of a sudden, around the end of my 20s, a bunch of the studios cut their slates majorly. So then they cut out those comedy movies that they would do, and they cut the parts of the studio that would do the smaller movies. The stuff you were working on. The stuff that I did all got cut. And then they were making superhero movies only. And that's cool. I like superhero movies, but that's not the only thing I like. That's not the stuff that I cut my teeth doing. I was like, Oh, is this the end? Am I just going to be a musician?

Really? You thought your career was over?

Yeah, I did. Really? I did. I really did. I remember, I toured for a year straight. I was just not working on anything. Yeah, I just toured. Then New Girl popped up. I remember getting that script, and I hadn't thought about... Back then, it's funny, now we just think TV and movies, all the same. All these movie stars do TV. Back then, people who did movies did not cross over to do TV. It was considered this weird thing. There was some line of delineation, and it was like, Oh, no. Why would you do a TV show? It was like, maybe occasionally-Don't ruin your career. Yeah. Maybe it would be an HBO show. Somebody would do Showtime or something like that. But doing a network TV show was not done. And I remember being like, That's stupid. Why would that be? And I think my own a little bit of rebelliousness inside me going, Well, that's ridiculous. Why would I let that define me? If the material is good and I trust the show creator, which I did, she's unbelievably talented, and I know who's involved, like Jake Cazan, who directed the pilot. I've known forever, and he's extraordinarily talented.

If I know all these people, and I know they do quality work, and they are doing something that I want to work on. Why do I care whether it's a movie or a TV show? Obviously, doing a TV show is a little bit more like getting married, so you're in it. You're in it. You could be in it for a really long time. But yeah, I remember being like, I'm not listening to that stupid old idea that film actors aren't supposed to do TV. So I just did it and it paid off so well. And then all these film actors that I knew were coming up and going, I want to do a TV show. I remember famous, very famous people. Really? Yeah, coming in and saying, Oh, I want to do TV. And I was like, I felt good about the fact that I had done something that was a little bit scary, but it paid off. That's why I think I think you have to go where the... As an actor, anyone creative, go where the material is. Don't think about the medium so much. Really? Because who cares where it is, whether it's a play, it's a podcast, a TV show, a web series, a movie, a little tiny indie.

If the material is good, that should be the thing that's the most important.

So what makes you decide what you want to work on And would you do a small web series if the material was incredible now?

It would have to be really incredible. No, I would do... Honestly, I go where material... It's material and who I'm working with. And the team. And the team. Yeah. Because obviously... I've also read scripts and been like, I don't get this. And then it turns out to be great because the director knows how to To make it great. To make it great. Interesting.

Was there ever a script that you that you read and you said, I don't really like this. But then it later went on to be this big success?

So many. Really? Yes. Well, because sometimes it's like, I don't get it because it's not for me. There are things like knowing our own what we are great at is also important. I always want to know I'm going to add value to something. If I don't get it, I'm not going to add value. I'll be floundering. But then I'll be like, there have been times where I've read something and I'm like, I don't really get it. And then I'll see some actress just crush it. And I'm like, oh, she knew how to do that part. It's just who they are and their angle on it. And yeah, it's happened so many times.

How have you learned how to, I guess, deal with rejection or with not getting the part? When I look at your list of credits, it seems like everything that you've ever auditioned for, you've got. It's what it looks like. There's so much you've worked on, right? So many successes. But I know just being in LA, that you've probably done many rounds of auditioning, especially earlier in your career, where you just go on audition and you don't get it. Oh, yeah. How have you learned to navigate and, I guess, go through that process of rejection?

Yeah, it's really hard at first. And I'm really happy that I did it. I was in high school when I started. So it felt like, oh, this is bonus. It was what I really wanted to do. But I didn't think, oh, I have to make it now when I'm 16 years old. I thought, oh, hopefully by the time I'm 25, I'm But I wasn't like, Oh, I need to be crushing it as a teenager. Crushing it as a teenager. I knew that it was recreational, but it did mean a lot to me, and I would take the rejection pretty hard. Really? Yeah, I'm an emotional person, so I would be like, I remember crying. Sometimes you get really attached to something. You work on it. You really want it.

You're practicing it. Yeah.

But then I think I realized after a lot of that, I don't know. Your skin gets thicker and you start to just go, well, if they don't get me, or maybe I wasn't the right person for it. Like I was just talking, it's not an insult to you if you don't get a part. It's not like, Oh, you suck because of that. I think actually, the best thing, now that we're talking, the best thing that happened to me was I remember the first time I was involved on the other side of casting, I had already been cast in something, and they wanted me to come in and read with all the guys coming in.

This was a TV show or a movie?

It was a movie, yeah.

So you had the part, and you were like, We want to see you test with other people. Exactly.

They wanted to see me read with a bunch of guys who were coming in to play my boyfriend and see chemistry and see how they were. I remember that The guy who was actually the absolute best actor, he was so incredible, was just not right for the part. Interesting. There was another guy who was more limited in his skill, but he was right for the part and was the one who got it. But I was like, Oh, I wish I could just... I didn't ever tell the actor that didn't get cast because I never saw him again, but he was incredible. And you're like, Oh, my God, what an actor. He just taking everything in in a way that I admire so much. But it's not about you. It's not about your skills. It's about an overall persona. It's like, there's certain parts I'm just not going to play because I don't represent that to people. It's like, there are just certain things that you don't work in that part. And that was it.

But I feel like a lot of people take things so personally when they're project doesn't work out or they launch a book, people don't buy it or whatever. It's really hard. So when did you learn to not take things personally and to realize it's not about me and my talent. It's just I don't play the character the way that needs to be played. And it's just not the right fit. When was that? How old were you?

When you started to-I was in my 20s, for sure. I mean, it took me a while because I started when I was really young. But yeah, I was definitely in my 20s. And it's still like still things keep connecting. As I get older, I'm like... I'm less affected by those things. But every once in a while, I'm surprised by something that I'll be like, whoa, that hurt. Really? Of course.

When was the last time you had that experience, though? Because I'm assuming at this moment, people just say, We want you for this part. You probably don't have to audition that much, or maybe they just want to do a quick read.

I don't audition very much. Yeah. I don't audition much.

They're just like, Hey, we want you. If you want it, you got the part.

Right. I mean, it's not so much that stuff. I can't even I'm just saying I'm still surprised by stuff. I can't think specifically. It's not the same stuff because it's not like going in a reading and then putting my heart into an audition and then practicing. Practicing, yeah. But I actually I don't think that stuff ever goes to waste because even if you work really hard on something and you put that energy into a character, you end up using it later in another character. I always think, you work really hard on something. And people remember when you work hard and people remember. So it doesn't go away. So it's like when you do a good job, people remember.

And maybe in three years.

Yeah, they might go, you know what? She wasn't right for that part, but we really liked her. And she put so much effort into that. It is really appreciated when you... And I know for myself, there are times when I don't... When I really say, I still meet directors and producers and things. And when I take the time to really study their past work or study the script that they're making, it really pays off. If I haven't done the work, I don't come across as well. So all those things. I mean, we still are freelancers. Actors are freelancers. You got to prepare and show up. You still have to prepare and show up. Wow. Yeah.

What is the the part you played or the project you worked on that taught you the most about yourself? Maybe it was a well-known thing that people know about and see, or maybe it was something small that no one really ever saw. But what's the part you've played in your career that taught you the most about you?

Probably getting to do New Girl because it was so long. It was over seven seasons. I mean, it was eight years of my life. Before that, because I would go from film to film, you show less of yourself with a film. To some degree, it's like... I was probably playing less lead roles, more like large supporting roles. You show just more... You're picking and choosing what you show, and that's an important thing in terms of telling the story. But when you're telling this very broad story, and it's very long, and you have a limited number of lead characters, and you show a lot of yourself. And before that, I also was not necessarily known for doing that a little bit more broad comedy. I wasn't doing that. And I knew it was something I could do. When I read that script, I'm like, I know I haven't done this before, but I know I can nail this. It was a really... I felt extremely confident. I know I can do this. And I know nobody thinks of me as this yet. My first thing when I was really young, first in my career, and I remember I would go to auditions and I would do movies and I would get cast in a lot of these sardonic, dead pants, sarcastic roles, and then move in playing and things like that.

And it was just different. It was different from a lot of the stuff I'd done. So it was fun to get to be like, I can do... It's nice when you know, you're like, I haven't done this, but I know I can nail it. It did teach me a lot to have confidence in the things where I know I can value add here. Wow.

So eight years of your life for one project, essentially. Yeah, long time. What would you say were the three biggest lessons you learned about yourself during those eight years? Maybe personally in your life, in your career, what opened up for you during that time?

That you got to get enough sleep.

Sleep.

Sleep is so important. It's your health. Yeah, I think I really took... We were just working so hard. Our first three seasons, we were not getting... I mean, we were just working so hard and just spending so many hours on set. And I got into horseback riding at that time. The time I spent outside with animals, I would take all these vitamins to help with my... Make sure that I didn't get sick. I did not get sick ever. Everyone was like, couldn't believe it. But that was because I really started really taking care of myself. Really?

Yeah. Did you feel yourself starting to get tired or exhausted from just all the shooting?

So exhausted. Yeah, we were all so tired.

Oh, my Like 16-hour days, just nonstop.

All the time.

Yeah. Really? And the season was what? Three to four months, roughly or less? Eight months. Eight months for the season?

Yeah. Wow. That's intense. It was intense. We spent more time around our cast mates and our crew than we did around our families. Wow. Yeah.

Okay, so that's one lesson. What else opened up for you during that time?

I had both my kids while I was on the show. Wow. So I did like...

How was that? Being a mom and being a star of a show and having...

It was really hard.

It's like you have two high-demanding jobs. Being a mom and being a star of a star show.

I will say, too, that my sister was on the same lot as me shooting her show. Wow. And also she had her younger baby around the same time I had my older one. So they're just a couple of months apart.

So they got to be together. They got to be together.

You got to be together. It was nice because she was such a great... She's such a great role model. She's a very hard worker. She's a very good mom. She gave me so much guidance that used it. I think definitely, I'm not one to ask for help very much, but getting advice from people can really just be so helpful. That's beautiful.

Was she there the A whole time filming as well?

Pretty much. Almost. I think the last season of my show, she was done, but she was pretty much... Because her show went like 11 seasons.

She's getting those royalties.

Yeah, I was going to say the drama tend to go longer when they're... Wow.

What was it like growing up with an older sister who was also in the industry, the parents in the industry? What did she teach you really helped you in your career?

I actually started before her, even though she's older than me. She wanted to do it at the same time, but she went to theater school in Boston, and I was here in LA in high school, and I was like, I had the hustle in me, and I was like, I have to do this. And so I started auditioning when I was 16, but she was in college and not what was just focused on her studies. I mean, she was studying acting or theater and acting.

She wasn't trying to book gigs?

No, I was trying to book gigs in high school. I don't know. It's crazy to me now to think... My mom had this thing because from the time I was little, I was like, I have to do this. And she's like, okay, that my parents made a deal with me because they were like, We know a lot of child actors, and we're not cool with that. Don't turn out well. Just because it's a lot. And you have to have a special temperament It, which they're like, You don't have. Like child actors that are really good. It's like you have to be okay doing something over and over again. It's a different skill than being a grown actor, right? So they're like, once you can drive yourself to auditions, you can...

Yeah, okay.

Got you. You can get an agent. And so basically, when I was 16, I was like, here we go. I wasn't out. I was still living with my parents. So my mom is an actor. My dad is a cinematographer and a director. So I have a lot of... I can't... I can't possibly emphasize I don't realize enough how much creative help I had from my family unit. Because everyone is... It's funny because people will be like, oh, nepotism. I'm like, no, my dad's a DP. No No one's getting jobs because their dad's a DP. It's definitely not. But my dad is a great creative mind, and he's such a talented person. So incredible, like knows everything about film. My mom is a great actor and is so nurturing. And so they both... My mom would coach me. When I didn't have an acting coach, she would coach me and she would help me read lines with me. He should be so supportive. My dad, I would have so many great discussions about film and filming with my dad. They both would help me so much. I mean, my dad would also read lines with me and give me great direction.

And then having a sister who's an actor, it makes you just automatically have a community. And how much our communities help us, whether it is our family or whether it's our found communities, our found families. That's so important to keeping going, because this is a business, the one I'm in, it's easy to want to just go away because it can be like, you just have to not go away. You have to just keep sticking it out because it You can have long periods of time. I remember I quit college to do the movie Almost Famous. And it was my first year of college. And I basically was supposed to just come home and do the movie and go back. And then I just made this weird decision to ship all my stuff home from Chicago. I was going to Northwestern. I just was like, I'm just going to ship all my stuff home. So I shipped all my stuff home, I do that movie, and then I got no work for a year. I was Yeah. And I was like, What do I do? Because you could have a year where you don't work. Or even last year, we're all on strike.

There's no work. You could have a terrible year where you don't work, or the pandemic, or all kinds of things. And you just have to be like, No, I like this enough. I'm just going to just hope next year. Keep doing it. Yeah, keep doing it.

Did you ever have a time where you thought, Oh, maybe I won't get booked again?

Yeah. After I had kids, you change a lot. Were you? Yeah. But you're on a star show and you're crushing it and you're ratings. You still have those feelings. Really? Yeah. I thought, not that I wouldn't get booked again, but it I will say, actually, it's not just about kids, but when you're on a show that everyone knows for a long time, and that's what people know you as, and it goes away.

It's hard to get booked again sometimes.

It is because people think of you as that. And I think, especially me in particular, my face and who I am was very much associated with that brand. And Yeah, you get a little nervous. Who am I now? There's a short film by Jonathan Demi with Susan Sarandon and Christopher Walkin called Who Am I This Time? It's about actors. I always like the title. It will ring in my head. It's like, Who am I This Time? But it is scary to go, Well, that character is behind me. I can't just be that character again. I have to find new characters. It's like, Well, who am I now?

After When you were seeing your girl and did, was it a challenging time for you?

Yeah, it's hard. I mean, also, that was my family.

So you're seeing each other every day for eight years?

Every day. For eight years. Then you all separate. Yeah, and we'd these inside jokes, and we make each other laugh every day, and we have our rapport. I miss that. It's weird to go from that to seeing them. It's not like we can... We'll never again see all those people every day. It's like graduating from high school and moving off. College or something. Yeah. You're with your family every day, and all of a sudden, you're not.

Everyone moves on to different relationships and jobs and opportunities.

Even if you go back and you're with your family a lot, your friends from high school, they all scatter around the country. It is a huge transition. It's a long time to spend with people. Here's a long time. It's a long time. It's longer than high school.

That's a long time. It was a decade. It's interesting because I used to work with one of your co-stars with Max.

Oh, nice. Yeah, he loves to work out.

Crossfit. I was just in CrossFit classes with him when I moved here to LA. I love him. It's just like, I guess, maybe the height of the show or the first few seasons. I knew who he was, and we were always competing against each other. One time, we were just chatting after a workout class, and we were like, Hey, you want to grab a smoothie and just catch up? I was just like, I didn't even know his story, but I was like, How long have you been out He's like, I've been in LA for a long time, and I've been essentially for 10 years busting my butt every year, feeling like I'm not going to make it, getting a little job here and there that would keep me in the industry until New Girl showed up.

Yeah, he worked so hard. Max was an example.Like a decade before he got an opportunity. Yeah. Everyone knew was so talented, but just hadn't had the right break for him. We were talking about earlier, Oh, yeah, sometimes you're great, but you're not right for that part. He just hadn't had that part. It was like, Schmidt was like...

He was it. Perfect. He was perfect for that.

Yeah. I mean, he was probably the easiest casting we did.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, he and Jake Johnson were the first two people, other than me that were cast. I read with everybody, pretty much. Everybody that was coming in a second time. I went in. I said right away, as soon as I was cast, I said, I want to read with everybody because I want to see how they are with me, not just how they are just generally. It's like, how do we play off of each other? And I also wanted to be there to make people feel comfortable because I know how hard it is when you walk in a room, it can be so intimidating. And I'm like, I can be the person and go, It's okay.Let's have fun.We're here. Let's have fun. So I just wanted to be there to make everybody feel comfortable.

What was that like reading with both those guys? Did you know right away, Oh, these got to be the guys?

Yeah. I mean, Max was pretty obvious, and Jake, they both were pretty obvious. I mean, Max was just had that... It was like, and again, I think all that stuff is like... And Jake was similar, where he had been toiling away for a while and hadn't quite hit the right part. But you know what? The thing about Jake, what he did was... Max just was Schmidt and figured out how to play that part like guns blazing. Jake played... A lot of people played at the nick character, little bits, more... There were lots of... Pretty much everybody that I read with was good. It wasn't like... There were no bad actors I read with. They were all great because they were being called back. But what Jake had was He was like, he made it all feel natural, real. It wasn't like he was playing at it, like he was playing at jokes. He was playing it like he was it. He was being it. Yeah, which is the There's a difference to me between something really succeeding and then just something being not bad. Right.

That was a good job, but it wasn't it.

He got the character in a way that was like, he he was real.

We were talking right before we started about being original and leaning into your uniqueness. You also mentioned, and you've talked about this before, growing up ADHD and feeling feeling, I guess, maybe not accepted in certain moments or feeling shut down or feeling like people needed to put you in a box or whatever it might be. I grew up very dyslexic and still struggled reading and writing today. You were saying beforehand about how if you can learn to be original with the, I guess, difficulty you have or the challenge you're facing with, that can be a beautiful asset to yours later in life. How did you learn to be original with your unique gifts or challenges and not let them hold you back but allow you to blossom. Yeah.

I think that was the journey of my school years was learning to be myself. I've always been a pretty... I always felt like I was normal, but then everybody else would be like, you're not. Everyone's weird, yes. I think being my authentic self, but still thriving within a system. That was the journey of my schooling years. And I think when I was really young, my big challenge was that, again, I think I mentioned I'm a very direct person. And so as a kid, I didn't know kids are supposed to be quiet and not... And I would just be like, I don't like that. I mean, like a little kid. I didn't know. I'm like, that's just I felt. And I didn't know you weren't supposed to say that. And I'm not sure exactly how that came about in my personality, but just how I am. Saying something like that to a teacher, not the best idea. Sure. But learning how to be in a system, navigate the system, be a good student. By the time I graduated high school, actually, by the time our records counted, I was the best student. It was so funny because I went from being this little misfit, wild, in the principal's office every day, about to school, got diagnosed with ADHD when very few girls were because I wasn't crazy hyper I was just like...

Distracted. I was very distracted. I was very distracting. I would talk to my neighbors. I was chit-chatter. At the desk, yeah. I make jokes out loud. I have a very loud voice. Yeah, do all kinds of stuff you're not supposed to do. Sure. But by the time I was in eighth grade, I was like, I want to be a good student. I want to thrive in this system. How can I do that? And then I started seeking out answers. And I remember my mom being like, well, maybe just listen sometimes and just talk right away. Okay, that's good advice. Maybe if you want to make more friends, ask people about themselves. Don't just speak about yourself. Don't just talk about yourself. I'm like, Those things that I didn't know naturally. Those were things I had to learn. I know I'm outgoing naturally, but I didn't have every social skill just automatically. Sure. There were a lot of things that I learned and really helped me thrive. And then I wanted to be a good student. I actually spent pretty much all my time in high school I'm studying. Yeah, I was like, I want to be a good student.

I know some people do it naturally and just don't have to study and they can just waltz in. But I know I learned... That's not me. I have to study. I have to work hard. What's important to me, theater and academics, and I'm just going to focus on those things. And knowing that I can't just do all that and party and have a crazy social life, I realized that focusing on those things because that's what was important to me, that I was able to achieve those things because I really put my laser focus on it. And then by the end of high school, I graduated with honors. I was like-Crushed it. Yeah, exactly. It was like, I got I got a really good SAT score, all this stuff, but it was only because I studied and I worked really hard, not because I just like... I think a lot of people want you to think they're just naturally gifted. Maybe there are people who are, but-That was you. Not me. I had to work hard. Wow. Yeah. But I realized how much applying myself, how rewarding that was.

It probably set you up for success with your acting career as well. It's because you were really preparing for all the roles you did.

That's what I try to impart on my children. I think I was telling you that my daughter was in a play, and I told her, We got to go over your lines every day. Then there was one day she was like, Well, I don't want to. I was like, Well, then maybe you don't want those lines. Then she's like, No, I do. We I think if I impart anything to them, it's that just working hard, it's not a burden, it's a privilege. Absolutely. If you have the inspiration to work hard, that means you really like something.

It seems to me, I was talking with Dr. Becky, who's a big parenting expert. You know Dr. Becky? I follow her on this. I was just had her last week. She was saying that one of the biggest challenges with parenting in kids today is the lack of hard work in kids. Parents trying to rescue the kids a lot and make it easier so they're less complaining or less having fits and just happy all the time. She was saying how that's one of the biggest challenges for kids to develop strong character in themselves, strong self-confidence by going through adversity and putting them in more adversity. Yes. It sounds like that's something you like to do as well, is make sure that they're instilled in hard work and discipline. Why do you think so many parents today struggle with that?

Well, I think it's not about... It's funny, you say discipline, and I'm like...

We're not disciplined, but just instill the hard work.

No, it's the right word. I think people associate it with the wrong things. Discipline means teaching, right? But people go, Oh, discipline. They think it's hard. It's like, no, it's really about feeling inspired to do something and that we know we have a practice where we do something every day, even if it's not the most fun thing, but we leave 20 minutes for it or whatever, even five minutes, leaving that time to devote to something. And I think it's more about those practices. And not shying away from having a hard time. Not everything is going to be easy all the time. And I can tell you, we all have our challenges, and that those challenges to make us who we are. And I do think that the hardest things I went through definitely helped me so much.

Really?

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

What was, in your mind, one of the most challenging things you had to overcome that supported you the later in life?

Yeah. I would say... I mean, look, it's funny because I said it a long time ago, and then sometimes people make funny when you say, Oh... I had a lot of people be very mean to me in seventh grade. It was very hard, right? Look, I know that happens to everybody, and I'm not saying, Oh, I'm a victim. I'm not. I only say it because it was painful to me at the time. I was upset a lot. But But the reason why I tell the story, it's not to say I'm a victim. It's only to say that even things that are painful, I learned a lot. I learned to laugh about things, having a sense of humor about things, having perspective on it, going, Well, this is bad now, but think about how it's going to be next week. Maybe it's going to be better next week.

You had that perspective back then?

Well, And I started to learn it. It was like you're getting little bits of it. Now I have that life philosophy, but it was over years that you developed that knowledge that you go, Okay, well, seventh grade was horrible, but eighth grade was better, but it was partially because I invested that time into it, and I didn't want it to be so bad. And I realized, I think the important thing, and probably what you're talking about, Dr. Becky, saying that When it's not the parent going in and swooping in and saving somebody, when it's the parent giving advice to a child or an adolescent and saying, Well, if I were you, I'd do this. And then the kid figuring it out on their own and then going, That really helped. And then them being empowered to get through something themselves, that gives you confidence, that helps their self esteem, All those things are positive things.

How have you learned... I mean, there's a lot of people that are watching this and listen who are successful entrepreneurs or they're launching businesses. They're very driven individuals who also want to better themselves. There's a lot of women that watch and listen who also want to be driven and successful in their careers and want to be moms. Yeah. Oh, God. But sometimes they feel... It's hard. Sometimes I feel like, how can I be really successful and competitive in my career, but I also raise good kids and show up and be a great mom and not have mom guilt if I have to go and pursue my dream at the same time? Yeah. So it's like teaching through example to live your dreams, but maybe you won't be there all the time for your kids. Or certain times you won't be able to be there. How did you learn to navigate that when your career was just booming with these eight years and not have the mom guilt, but also be willing to pursue your dream? It's a dance. How How did you navigate that?

When I was on New Girl, I was taking my kids with me pretty much every day to work, and they had their own little play area and stuff. That was really helpful. I felt supported. My sister had done it similarly. She saw it, yeah. I saw it. I was like, Okay, this is... I remember asking my agents if they could connect me with some other actresses who had done that. And so that was really helpful to me to be able to have that role modeling and advice. Again, I just I don't think our world is necessarily set up for working moms, unfortunately. And so you have to fight a little bit for it. I think, yeah. I mean, you have to say, well, I need to... You have to set your boundaries. Understand what's important to your kids, right? If it's important to them to show up at their sporting events or their school plays or whatever, you try to do that as much as you can. And then if you can't one time, it's okay. I mean, look, the way that I work, I'll have to go away for a certain period of time sometimes or be working really hard.

And I don't always have control over my schedule. But that's why When I'm home, I drop my kids off at school. I pick them up from school. I take them to their dance classes and their theater classes and all the things that they do. And I go to their performances, and I go to the meetings at school, and I'm like, they're all the time. I mean, I try to because my work is concentrated, right? So I have these periods of time where I can't be there as much. So I try to, when I can be, there as absolutely much as possible. I I'll tell you how many times if you ask my managers or agents or publicists, when they call me, I'm in the car, my kids are going like, mommy, in the back seat, because that's like, I'm just there all the time. I'm like, watching classes. The thing I wanted to for my birthday was sit and watch musicals with my kids and Jonathan. I love spending with them. So I try to, just as much as possible, be there when I can. And they know that I work, and they know they're proud of me.

That's beautiful. But I try to be, and I'm very involved in their school, and I like to be there whenever I can. And so I think that's how I do it. I just try to, as much as possible, be immersed in that. That's beautiful. But we can't always be there. Of course.

Yeah, of course. But you're such an inspiration for so many moms who also want to live their dreams and not feel like they can't do both at the same time.

It is hard. I mean, it is hard. You just have to... It is hard. It does become like Tetris in your mind. Right.

Navigating the schedule.

How can I be here and there at the same time, right? Sure.

This is a question I ask a lot of people that I'm curious in your response. Before you I guess it might be hard for me to ask this question because your career has always been growing and taking off since you were a teenager. You've had a lot of opportunities early on. But can you remember the TV show or the movie that really took your career to the next level? Can you remember what time that was or maybe the project?

It's always been like little. I always felt like it was just little steps. I'm always just stepping, stepping. I definitely think when I did New Girl, that was a big thing because all this... I had never been marketed on that level.

Okay, so it was like another level.

I was 30 or something when we started. So it wasn't like a baby. I was a full-grown adult.

You'd done a ton of projects already.

I've done a ton of stuff. But when I did that show, my face was on the side of this building that was down the street from my house at the time. And I remember driving. It was on Highland in Hollywood. And I was driving to New Girl. And I see the face. It's my body, and it says, Simply Adorkable. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is crazy. And this guy comes up, sees me in my car. I didn't have tinted windows or anything. I just had a... I think I had a Prius or something. Sure. And this guy sees me in the car, and he comes running across Highland. And then you just start pounding on my window going, Hey, hey, and pointing at the thing. And I was like, Ah. I remember I was stuck in traffic, like Highland, anybody who goes to LA, like Highland is always blocked. And I was like,. And I was like, I got to get away. This guy's like, pounding on my window. But I remember being like, that's a different level of marketing than I have experienced before. Because I was like, I did like, 500 Days of Summer, I was on a bunch of posters.

And it was a different thing, though. It was funny because it was like, I wasn't the lead character that. I was more like the object in that. But I was on some big billboards for that. But when you're on a billboard, it feels... It's a weird, surreal thing because it seems like it's so physical. But there's billboards, and then this was a building. This was a building, and it was at the bottom of my hill, basically, at the time. That was crazy. Yeah. So it was crazy.

How did you learn to, I guess, navigate Fame on that level?

That was really hard, actually. Really? I really wasn't prepared it. I felt very shy. I wanted to go... Because I love being on stage and people look and they clap.A lot of you.Yeah, I love that feeling. That's obviously every actor performer singer, loves that. But the people running up and crowding you, that was something I had to... Nobody gives you any playbook for that. I I didn't have a playbook, I would just run away. I didn't know what to do. And so I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes. But I think at a certain point, I realized it's like, okay, I made this decision to be an actor on television. And of course, these people, that means they like the show and be as gracious as you can. You don't want to get stuck in a dangerous situation. But I think having a little bit like some of those meditative practices. Taking a deep breath and just being like... Because it's scary when people are... I think the same thing. I had this thing when I was a kid, people would look at me and laugh and be mean. The same feeling when everyone looks at you.

It would remind me of that. I'd be like, They are looking me because they're being mean.

Even though they're cheering you on.

Yes, but it felt the same. So I think getting over that. That was an aha moment. Like, oh, my gosh, this reminds me of when I was a kid. People would be bully-ish to me.

So it triggered you emotionally.

It would trigger me emotionally. And I was scared. I would feel like I want to get out. But now I don't see it that way at all. I feel like, Oh, my gosh, it's so nice. People come up and say hello. It's like, as long as my kids feel safe. Right.

People are respectful.

Yeah. It's a different thing.

Where were you on that scale of self-love before that show took off and then after the show took off?

Actually, it was funny because I would always joke about ego fluctuation. I always had a very strong sense of self that I know is me. I was like, This is me. I know it's me.

But when you're that famous now, there's a different level of- But I would definitely...

But then there's this shift, when you get a perspective shift, where all of a sudden you're like, whew, you were micro and then macro. Those perspective shifts can really throw off your feelings. I wouldn't say I always love... It sounds funny. I always love myself. I always felt a good amount of self, believing in myself and that, I guess, self-love.

So on that scale, where before the show?

I mean, I knew myself, and then I'm still always learning about myself. But also, then afterwards, I mean, again, you're thrown off by the shifts, but I still knew who I was. That's great. I mean, it's hard. I think sometimes when... If somebody misunderstands me, that's the hardest thing. And that will throw me into a little bit of spirally stuff. If somebody really misunderstands something I do, that feels really bad to me. I would say that's the hardest thing.

The reason I asked this question is because so many people ask this, too, before they have a rise in success or money or fame, I asked them this question, and a lot of people are always higher on the self-love scale before they take off in their career or business or following or whatever. And then it drops a little bit afterwards. But it sounds like you had a really good sense of self-identity.

I have a good sense of self-identity. If nothing else... You are who you are. I know who I am. I'm very much like who I am. From the time, I was little, little.

But how did you learn to accept yourself when others were making fun of you?

It was hard. Yeah, that's hard.

How did you learn to adapt and change so others could like you? That's a really great question. And to stay the unique, original person that you are?

Well, I think that was the struggle of my adolescence, was being like... And I did retreat a little bit into myself, really was trying to follow what other people wanted for a long time. And then I do think through acting, actually, through being a performer. And it was like I ended up with the most success when I was embracing who I Wow. I think that came early on, so I knew that. I'm like, Oh, when I let go, and I'm not just going, Will they like me if I do that? When I am myself, I am successful, more successful than being... Especially as an actor, you have to be a little bit uninhibited. Sure.

When you are yourself, You are successful. Yeah.

And you're constantly working- I associate it with success, I guess.

That's beautiful. Even though if you're playing another character, you're still being yourself in that role.

You're still yourself in that character. I know there are actors that totally lose themselves, but I'm sorry. Even the best actors, you're still like, I'm not going, I don't recognize Meryl Streep. She's the greatest actor in the world, probably, but I still know it's her. Yeah, of course. She's still like, and she can do incredible transformations, but still, I know it's her. There's still that person in there, and there's a reason why we like… There's some essence that stays. Yes. So we have to at least… And then every actor is different. There's some actors that don't go too far from who they are, but we still love watching them. We still love... They're still great actors. They're not as transformative as with some others.

Where are you at in this season of your life? What's the vision you have now after 20 plus years of a lot of success in a lot of different genres? What are you excited about creating and developing moving forward, personally, professionally?

I still love acting, and I still love doing music. I still love doing all the same stuff I liked when I was a kid. I still get excited about it. I still love doing that. I always think of being an actor as you're a filmmaker. We're just focused on a more micro thing. But we're there to help get this made. And again, I think I talked about value add before, but am I a value add? How could I be the most value add? It's my job to be on the film set, helping the film get made however that is. So it's like, That's fun for me. I enjoy that work. I still really love it and enjoy it, even though I'm a parent now and I have a wonderful relationship now and all kinds of things going on that are different than different phases of my life. But I still love doing it. It's amazing. It's so fun.

This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths. Okay. Imagine a hypothetical scenario. Okay. You get to live as long as you want to live in world, but it's your last day.

Okay.

Many years away from here, it's your last day. And you get to create everything you want to create from this moment moving forward till that last day. But for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your work with you. Everything you've ever created, projects you've been a part of, this conversation, anything, your music, for whatever reason, we no longer have access to it in this world. Okay. But on this last day of life, you get to leave behind three lessons. Three things you know to be true about your life, experiences that you would want to leave behind. What would be those three lessons or three truths that you would share with people? If we didn't have anything else to be remembered by you?

Okay. Yes. I think being able to shift your perspective is one of the greatest strengths you can possibly you possibly have, and it's something you can practice. That if you're not having fun in your work, you're doing the wrong thing, and that you should always try to be 100% yourself.

Those are good.Thank you.I like those. I like those. Be yourself, be original.Yeah.Be original.I love I want to acknowledge you, Zoe, for how you've been so consistent in your life and in your career and how you've been original. You've had a lot of fun. Everything that I feel like I've seen you in and other people have seen you in, you have a lot of fun. Yes. I do. You bring out joy, laughter, love, and a range of emotions for people when they experience your art. Oh, thank you. I want to acknowledge you for being a great artist, constantly evolving as an artist, showing up and adding value, not just trying to take from every situation, showing up, loving yourself fully, and also contributing to others around you, and just really showing up with a beautiful heart. So I want to acknowledge you for-That's so sweet. Of course. I want to acknowledge you for all that. Obviously, I don't know you that well, but from what I've witnessed of you and the work that you've created, you bring a lot of love and joy.

That's really nice. Thank you so much. I took that in.

Good. I'm glad you did. Final question. Zoe, what is your definition Definition of Greatness.

Definition of Greatness. I think when you can be humble and recognize the things that you don't know and where you can learn, and and how you can be better. For me, that's a state of greatness because you're not saying, I'm done here. You're saying, I'm just getting started. I'm still working on I have many places I want to go. And of course, I don't know everything. Who could?

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