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At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question? Now it is. Cybernetic boarding is tissue living tissue and does go to Paris, so. Hello, everyone, welcome to the Tim Ferris show, episode five hundred, I am your host, Tim Ferriss. I'm not to Embarrass. I'm Kevin Rose. Tim thank you for having me. Dude, I know I was your first guest on Episode one, but I'm honored to be interviewing you for this episode.

I am so thrilled and excited and wouldn't have it any other way, so I am stoked to be reunited.

We have some wine. I have this kind of like Magnum bottle of white wine. Kevin worried that I had already polished off seven eighths of it, but I had I'm in the jungle with an Italian. There's more to that. But the table wine is courtesy of his house and he gave me just enough to it looks kind of like horsedrawn in this smart shot, but just enough to have fun without getting slaps because we have a history with one. You know, it's funny.

I told Dario is like, OK, here's the deal. I'm going to pour two glasses into my glass and I don't care if I'm texting you do not bring the bottle back down. I do not do it. So I actually but I totally screwed up and I brought the bottle and sitting next to me now.

But it was a good plan for as long as it lasted, dude. So, you know, it's funny. I remember you came to me and you said, I think I want to do a podcast and you've done podcasts before because I had done like three hundred episodes, the Diggnation prior to, you know, you starting yours. And I remember this is horrible, but it's true. I remember just being like, Tim, don't do a podcast.

It's stupid.

I was trying to talk you out of it. I feel so bad for that now because you went, you did it.

And obviously it's a massive success. So what do I know.

But well, do you must have given me some type of good advice or the bad advice wasn't compelling enough. Yeah, here we are. And I remember recording that first episode. We are in San Francisco, my first apartment I rented in San Francisco, and this huge wooden table and. I remember being really nervous, we had all sorts of gear, we had all sorts of fancy, you know, like mixers and everything else with somebody helping, my hands are sweaty.

And I had a list of questions, a printout. And I remember in that first episode, number one, it was per your description, Tim, Tim, talk, talk, because I didn't have a name. And then I remember asking you a question, which was, if you could be a breakfast cereal, what would you be and why?

And you went, oh, it's one of those interviews.

And I was like, never again will ask that question.

You had to test them out, though, you know, not every question work. So you were new.

It was it was good training. All right. So I saw you take a sip. So you've got your wine. Yeah. This is your dream table wine. I'm drinking grocery table wine, familia, Cielo, cia., yellow from 19 08 Pinot Grigio. And this is what the city of Fancy was drinking out of my fancy. Yeah, 12 ounce water glass.

Since I don't have any wine glasses, I am doing the twenty sixteen Napa Valley Reserve. It is fantastic white wine. I'm just a little chardonnay. Good stuff. Congrats on being guest number five hundred and congrats to a long standing friendship. Honestly, it's been cheers to that brother. Lots of lots of adventures. So cheers. Yeah, cheers. Really nice. Really nice to have continued to deepen and stay in touch over all these years.

Absolutely.

I feel like that is probably as sentimental as it's going to get.

And you seem to have lots of arrows in the quiver for questions. You gave me a lot of reporting, warned you via, via, via text message, and I have not reviewed anything. Well, so this is the cool thing is I was putting together a Google doc and I was like, OK, Tim will share the Google doc up with some questions in there and tell me what you think it is like. Actually, I'd rather do this just sight unseen.

Let's let's just roll with it. So I went out, did a little Twitter post. You retweeted it.

We got a few hundred questions there. Also, some of your good friends, like Mr. Chris Sacca, who's a mutual friend of ours, reached out and sent me some some very colorful questions, if you will.

Kind of I'm kind of saving those for a little bit. Well, actually, I want to start with a soccer one, but some of the more the more juicier ones are going to be peppered in a little bit later in the show. So this is fun. This is a good a good mix of of serious and crazy. And yeah, it's a a smorgasbord of questions, if you will. A grab bag of podcasting delights. I'm ready. OK, so here we go.

I'm actually going to lead off with the soccer question because he sent so many good ones. He said, what one thing do you eat that you've never wanted to admit to the four hour body tribe?

Oh, boy. Well, I will say the first thing that comes to mind, because it's a recent example, is if I've had two or more glasses of wine and there is pizza within 30 feet of me. It's game over. It's completely game over, so is having a bunch of pizza and by a bunch I mean like six to 10 slices just a few days ago. And this is at the tail end of a bottle of wine. And my friend, one of my friends I was with here said, what would all of your readers of the four hour body say while you're prohibiting them from eating carbs?

Look at yourself. And so that's that's the first thing that comes to mind. If there are any Tim Tams nearby, Tim Tams are this. Yes. Cookie treat that I just think are delicious. They're amazing. And there's the Tim Tim slam, which is when you don't get into something like milk or any number of other things, Tim Tams are also dangerous territory. So those are the pizza in Temp's.

When you say 30 feet away, do you mean that like your phone is 30 feet away and you order pizza and have it delivered to your house?

Because that's my that's what I do. That's my job. I'm eliminating the phone from this. If I walk, let's just say pre covid times. Yeah, had a few drinks. I'm walking down a street to get to wherever I'm going and we pass a pizza joint or if it's within like excusable rationalizing distance, like, oh, let's just go over, take a look at the menu. Right. If it's a right turn and you have to go a quarter mile, I'm not going to do it.

So I try to preserve some dignity. But if it's within wandering distance, say there's a place called Homeslice on South Congress in Austin and it's it's dangerously, dangerously close to the main kind of pedestrian area. So I would I would I would succumb. Yeah.

We're in the same camp if anything was within a couple of blocks of my house. It's like game over. Like, that's just going to happen all the time.

All right. So next next question. Love the show. However, it seems that you're constantly searching for the next big life hack, next product that will satisfy, etc. that would be exhausting and would lead to constant anxiety. My question, Tim, have you found peace outside of having things or knowing things? That's a damn fine question, is this from the interweb? It is. Yeah, my relationship to self-improvement or thinking about hacks and so on has changed over time, and the word hack used to not have as much baggage as it now does.

So I use that term effectively never these days, because it's just established such or taken on such a kind of a nasty negative overtone. But I'll tell a story. I think this illustrates how I'm reorienting quite easily. And that is a spending time with an incredible, I want to say psychiatrist. He's also, I want to say an ordained minister. I may be getting some of the details wrong here.

Maybe it's a masters of divinity, I don't know, named Bill Richards.

And Bill Richards is well known also for being one of the most experienced, let's call it guides or facilitators above ground in the psychedelic world. So he's facilitated hundreds of sessions, along with a woman named Mary Cusimano, who's who's equally impressive in so many ways and just an incredible human being. And I spent time with Bill.

He's supervised years and years of sessions, both pre prohibition meeting pre the Controlled Substances Act and post. So he's done all sorts of trainings all over the world. And there are two things that stood out from that conversation immediately. No one asked him what books he could recommend for learning more about the process of guiding the protocols they used to. And he said, well, so you know, the problem with books. And I was like, what's the problem with books?

And he said, too many words.

Again, it gives you an idea of his personality. And then the second thing he said was related to doing the work, because I said, I'm not afraid to do the work. And he said, well, you know, it's a tricky about doing the work. And I and I I asked him. What it was that was sort of tricky and he said, well, there's a very thin line between doing the work and just picking on yourself.

So I think that in a self-improvement and how much it affects you positively or negatively, for me personally, depends a lot on the motivation behind it. Right. Like, are you running away from something or are you running towards something? Are you finding problems with yourself or problems in your life just because you've been rewarded throughout your life as a problem solver? I think that's true for me. It's true for a lot of people. You're good at solving problems, so you get really good at finding problems, or are you doing it because there's some joy in doing it right.

So, for instance, right now I'm trying to pick up a couple of different games like board games, chess. There are a number of things and I find those really fun. So I'm improving my thinking and so on. Looking at a game of complete information like chess and learning about classical games and all this stuff like Goles mate, I think is one that I learned yesterday, which is just gorgeous with two nights. And I'm a novice, but I'm having so much fun doing it versus let's just say a contrast with that would be a therapy session that I had yesterday where we got into all this childhood stuff and revisited a bunch of trauma.

And I came out of the session feeling much worse than when I went into it.

And it occurred to me that I think that we can feel like we're doing a good thing sometimes when we're suffering and grinding. But that does not by default, mean that we're doing something worthwhile or improving. And so after that session, I, I sort of committed to myself not to dredge up all of the pain from the past in the name of doing the work just because I can. So I feel like I have a very good relationship to Hack's and all that stuff.

Now it doesn't cause me stress and in fact it never really has. But I think for a very long time I looked for problems to solve because I was good at solving problems and not all of those problems were worthwhile. And many of those problems were just masochistic. If that makes any sense. It does.

How do you apply this, though, to actual products? Like, for example, you know, you did the five Black Friday really famous newsletter. You finding all kinds of stuff. I imagine people are they just send you free stuff, like if you have any kind of following, it's like very common on the Internet. People want to try and send you things to check out, like how do you not just accumulate a bunch of crap? Like I find that every little object you own is some type of subconscious like burden.

You know, it's just like just storing it. It's just psychic drag.

It's like, imagine dragging all that shit around behind you in like a a net.

So what do you what do you do? What do you do there? Because you must see so and get so much stuff like how do you clear that out, how do you not try out the latest product. Yeah, no one is. I really don't encourage people to send things to me.

I mean, you know this because for better or for worse, you've turned into my unpaid executive assistant. So you people try to go through you and I'm just like, nah, I'm good.

I'm good for now. And what I'll very often do, No. One, I've policies. So I try to make one decision that removes a thousand decisions.

Right. So. Even in 2009, I was getting 30 to 40 books sent to me by publishers or authors per week, that's that's impossible, right?

You can't even begin to read those, let alone have your own life with your own priorities if you bend to that type of incoming. So I initially just said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

And they're all but even saying no is exhausting and took a lot of time when you start to have not 30, 40 a week, but several hundred a week. And I then posted, for instance, a blog post, which is a general policy of not reading any new books in twenty twenty, meaning any books published in twenty twenty. I've extended that to twenty twenty one. I'm not reading any books published in twenty twenty one. So when someone asks me or asks someone on my team they can say, sorry, I'm just not doing that.

Check out Tim blog for its new books is Back Depersonalizing. Yeah. Depersonalizes it so it makes it easier to say no and it makes it easier for other people to receive. No. The other thing is like if someone's like, hey, let me send you blah blah blah blah blah.

Free product free. Fill in the blank. The first thing you got to remember is like I remember somebody said once and I can't remember the attribution, but like free sex is the most expensive sex you'll ever have, right?

That's true for free books.

That's true for free product. It's not free. There's going to be if you have an audience, there's going to be a follow up. And sometimes it's like, oh, my God. Ten years later, I've had 73 emails from this person. Don't open that door. So if someone says, hey, I'd love for you to try X. If it's really close friend, and I know they're putting their reputation on the line and putting some skin in the game, right, they're risking something then maybe, but very rarely if it's a book or something else, I'm like, you know what?

I'll bite myself.

So how do you around the purchasing side of it, like how do you make a decision to actually buy something? Like how do you prevent yourself from overspending on items like is there anything that you used to be more minimal?

Well, I know you've you've had this snooze function, right, where you will allow yourself to make the 3:00 a.m. Amazon purchase. You have to hit snooze for twenty four hours. Yeah.

So this brings up questions related to some level of what people might consider success.

Right. So you end up in situations and this is a very rarified situation. So I want to acknowledge that up front, like you and I are in very fortunate positions, but let's say I get set a bunch of shit. Somehow it gets sent to me and it's not useful to me. I'm not interested in it, but it could be very useful to someone else. Let's take an easy example. Someone sends me a bunch of swag, right?

Like sweatshirts and hats and so on. It's like I have more I have enough clothing to last me forever. I don't need any more T-shirts, none of it. The cheapest thing for me to do. Is to throw that out, right, to literally throw it in the trash. OK, then there are karmically better things to do, like taking it to goodwill, which is what I usually do, and then I'm paying an assistant 20, 30, 40 dollars an hour to do that.

Right. I could return something. This is another consideration like, am I actually going to return something if I don't want it? The answer is likely no.

So I really try to measure twice and cut once in those cases and. I think I am disinclined to buy too many things right now, although if you looked at my Amazon order history, that might sound ridiculous. But compared to, say, even a few years ago, I buy. Far fewer things, because the the for me, the visual punishment of having a disordered kitchen table, of having a disordered house is so irritating and very visually sensitive and kind of like Monk from the TV show in that way.

I dislike that so much and I dislike waste so much.

This is particularly true of food. I'm very sensitive to food waste.

That is sort of a self-correcting system in that way. I've become much more sensitive to clutter in the last few years. Yeah, it makes sense. All right, let's move on to the next question. Is there any advice you used given to you or that you have given in the past that wasn't the best, not trying to be a troublemaker. I'm just wondering how high performers now wind, of course. Correct. Abandon faulty notions. The very good that it does make sense.

That's a very good and it's a very important question because you always get advice from people who have done well or you see advice from people who've done well. And there's a survivorship bias. Right. It's like. The Warren Buffett. Parable of sorts, maybe it's a parable, maybe it's a metaphor I always mix up metaphor and analogy. In any case, maybe it's a similarly, I can never keep those straight. But he talks about if you take like 10000 orangutans and they're flipping quarters, like eventually you're going to end up with one orangutan who is like flipped heads a hundred times.

And then that orangutan is going to write books about how to flip quarters and beat the stock market.

And so there's so much chance involved in such a survivorship bias, meaning you only see the advertisements for the mutual funds that survive in a magazine like Barron's or whatever. It's important to ask that question, and I'm saying all of that to buy myself some time because I know those must exist. I'll give one good one.

I had an incredible aversion to any type of investment in publicly traded equities in stocks until just a few years ago. You know this. You've watched this.

Were you telling people not to invest in stocks or was this something someone told you? So was it advice that you gave or advice you received because that was advice, it was advice that I received from a few people I respect who were very uncomfortable in investing in publicly traded equities because they felt like they could not directly impact the value of those companies. And these were startup investors. And that made a lot of sense to me at the time. And that logic still makes sense.

Like what am I going to do to increase the the market cap and the price per share of Tesla? Right. Like very, very little. I mean, I suppose my audience is large enough that maybe for a day I could register a blip, maybe, but really not much. And my thinking has become more nuanced. Right. Because the argument that I can't have a substantial impact on the price per share, therefore I shouldn't invest is kind of two parts.

Right.

So the assumption that I can't have a substantial impact on price per share, that's valid. But does that therefore lead to the conclusion I should not invest? I think there are other considerations. So thinking about timeline. Right. So if I'm trying to invest in a company over six months, I've zero confidence or very little confidence unless there is a huge drop for some reason that I think is unwarranted. But if it's over a two, three year time horizon and I don't feel any pressure to trade, then I've become much more comfortable investing in a hand.

Excuse me, a handful got the wine burps already after one, and I feel much more comfortable investing in a handful of companies that I feel are kind of inevitable unless they're grossly mismanaged, like from a tech trend perspective, they're kind of inevitably going to do decently well over two to three year period.

So, you know when to course correct, though, that that was actually a really interesting part of the guys question is like as a high performer, like, you know, it's easy to get really kind of into someone's advice, especially if it comes from some of, like, super vetted. And you really believe in like when did you decide, like, this is bad advice, I need to change this. Yeah, you're good.

This you should interview people. So I think it was forced upon me in a way. By covid in this particular instance, because I was sitting in almost I wasn't entirely cash, but largely in cash like let's call it just for the sake of argument. Fifty percent cash.

Yeah, it was so dumb. Well, maybe, I mean, in all caps, you're losing by just by inflation, you're losing money just now. Well, we could we could fight over this one for a long time.

I slept well at night for several years. And I got I had a huge because I had a bit of cash. And I don't think that should be underestimated.

I don't think a good investment is a good investment if it has really high returns. But you're like sweating bullets within Syria. Right. And that's a very personal thing. So for me, having a lot of reserves and cash helped me sleep. I don't regret it, but when covid hit and right before covid hit and there was the gigantic plummet, I knew there was going to be a Plumm. I suspected with high conviction there was going to be a gigantic plummet.

I was not savvy with options or credit default swaps. That was just not on the menu for me.

But I thought they were going to be buying opportunities in many places. And so then the question was, well, I've been sitting on the sidelines. I said I would be back even in twenty fifteen. Right now we have to be aware of the sunk cost fallacy, not the sunk cost fallacy, but the confirmation bias and all these various things where it's like if I publicly stated, like when there's blood in the streets, I will be back and I will invest.

I said that in 2015 when I quote unquote retired from startup investing, but I deeply believed it.

I was like, this is I don't as Tim Ferriss is the person who really understands very few aspects of investing with any competence. I don't get a lot of fat pitches like this. And I was like. Where am I going to put money like I have all this money that I have claimed I've been waiting to deploy? What the fuck am I going to do with it?

And I spoke with dozens of investors, not just two people I respected and ultimately came to believe very deeply in a few positions, whether the consequences severe and also extended of covid on both the economy, on technology, on behavior were cute or.

Two, three years long companies, I felt, would would really benefit in either scenario and the liquidity profile of equities like you want to get out, you can get out, you might get kicked in the balls from a tax perspective, et cetera. But you have liquidity, unlike a lot of the stuff that we do. Right. Like you put money in and like you are in, like your chips are on the table for five to 10 years.

We both have examples that are way past 10 years.

And so that would be an example. The example is interesting, not because equities, not because the stock market, not because blah, blah, blah, it's the process. Right. And I was lucky to have a forcing function. I will say here's another one. I have really relied on dietary interventions and exercise and so on for manipulating my blood markers, my blood tests for a long time. And if you look at my lipid profile. So my.

Let's just say my cardiac and lipid profile, genetically speaking, I have terrible, terrible, terrible software for a few things. It doesn't matter if I'm vegan.

I've tried that for a period of time just to see what it did for my blood. Why does matter from fasting? I've done tons of fasting. Pure keto doesn't matter if I eat all meat. I've tried all these things and I've looked at the blood tests and my Apoe B count and various other things are terrible.

They're so bad. You, me both man sucks. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's just like, look, I have my dad's had a heart attack.

My uncles have had strokes and cardiac issues. This is a we just got dealt a really shitty hand from a cardiac perspective and I've never considered going on medication like a Z imbibe is the one I'm considering long term or indefinitely.

But after doing cardiac calcium scoring, which is zero currently, but also angiograms and all of these things that are more nuanced and provide more detail, I've kind of changed my tune. I think there is a point where the risk benefit. Ratio leads one to the conclusion that it makes sense, right, and this is true, it's also like the vaccines. I think the Theotokos vaccines make overwhelming sense for a very high percentage of the population.

Yeah. So that would those be two examples? Yeah, that's great. Awesome.

Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show.

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All right, another question, I'll let you try and guess who this one is from, ends with Akure. When was the last time? When was the last time a blood or urine sample was stored in your fridge?

It's a good one because there was a time when you open up your fridge and it's like a six pack of beer, there's this urine everywhere, like, yeah, there's urine, blood, stool samples were the best with the biohazard marker on it. Yeah. You have to be very careful in the Ferris household. You also you also really don't want to take any supplements until you confirm that the label corresponds to what is actually in the bottle you do.

When I brought it to you, I was in your house. I went to the bathroom one time and like, I know you had the cupboard open or some shit. And I look up and it's like it's like a freaking Walgreens dude.

Like you had thousands of supplements.

I was like, how does he take all this stuff? I mean, you just were simulating over time.

Yeah, it's been accumulated over time. I, I also have dramatically reduced the number of supplements I take. But.

All right. So as far as blood, blood and urine samples go, I haven't stored any of that in the refrigerator for a long time now. Doesn't mean that I haven't taken samples.

So the last time I took see blood and urine samples, I mean, within the last two weeks or three weeks, within the last three weeks. But I have realized during covid that there is such a thing called mobile phlebotomy. So you can rather than going into Quest or one of these labs to have a draw performed around your doctor's office, there are, in fact services or people who provide mobile blood draws so you can set an appointment. You could even meet them outside.

And literally it's like you wake up, you probably do not eat breakfast, but you wake up, you're fasting and you have a blood draw within five to ten minutes. They're actually not that expensive either.

I looked and I had one happen here in Oregon and it was like fifty bucks to have it done. And yeah, it's fantastic.

Like what a specialty drinks it did.

You don't want to be around it like fifteen other people in the room. Yeah, it's amazing. I have found it to be a godsend and really, really convenient mobile phlebotomist for people who are wondering how it's spelled out. Phlebotomist is p h p h l phlebotomist with a bunch of E's and O's and other Wheel of Fortune ingredients. All right. All right.

I will say though, that people want us to get a lot of the comments was they get personal, like it into. I always tell one of the little story when I when I was leaving your house that one time, remember, this is a long time ago is like a decade ago or something.

You're like you're like, OK. And like most friends, they said like goodbye.

They, you know, give you a hug or whatever, fist bump, whatever you like, hand me like you like I do like have a good one like and you have me like a bottle of beef liver pills.

Do you remember this.

I'm like, oh those are great. I'm like, yeah. OK, cool friend. Thanks for the beef liver. You didn't even tell me what to do with them. It's like, hey, take some beef liver on your way out. Yeah. Those were that's dessicated beef liver from grass fed cows in Argentina.

I remember that. Yeah. Those I had a friend who was deficient in all sorts of things. I gave him those and he took them and he like I feel like I'm on crack. Like I have so much energy that I cannot even begin to understand how tired I was for so long.

So, yes, no question that was. Offhand, I don't I don't think it's on Amazon. I know that I ordered it on Amazon, so. All right. Caveat emptor. Beware, you're not all beef liver pills are created equal.

Yeah. You don't want, like, nasty hormone injected beef liver pills.

Like don't know. No. All right. So going a little bit more sensitive. I wish we had like some background music that we could play with.

This kicks in.

I bet. I bet we can figure out some background. Yeah. It's like I said, we'll make it happen. Sweet.

You have the resources. How how did you meet and fall in love with your girlfriend?

Just a quick note from the editor in post-production, this is Tim, I had to cut part of this one for privacy reasons, but I love you all very much. Now back to Usha. Which which is the strong hand like, that's a good move and I was very interested, so texted her we had a drink and that up and rest is history. That's amazing. That was quite a few years ago.

So let me ask you a question, though, because I got your fans are going to want this. I have to do it. I apologize to him. It says in the actual question, fall in love. So when was the like like for me? You know, you talked about when I met Daria at the bar, we talked about Zelda and she was a big Zelda fan. I was like, oh, my God, I could love this girl like it.

Was there something that jumped out during that first couple of dates where you're just like this girl could be an amazing match for me.

Oh, and again, these were the traits like, was there anything that you jumped out as like a common movie, like something she said that was funny. Like what? What was it that that they started to check those boxes for you? You know, it was none of that. It was none of the data points or things she said like, oh, we have that in common.

Oh, our values are aligned. It was more of a feeling like I felt very at ease with her. I felt like I didn't need to have my defenses up. I felt like there were I was very confident there were no ulterior motives. That is the hugest thing for you, dude. That's awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. I just felt very comfortable. And she was so playful and funny and light, basically all the things I'm not most of the time.

And she also gave me so much energy, you know what I'm talking about. Like, that's a big deal. Yeah, right. Like there are people who drain your energy and there are people who give you energy and there are some people who are maybe neutral. But I think over time, as you interact with more people, as you get older, certainly as you develop an audience of any type, you become much more sensitive to that because you're much more exposed to it.

Yeah, and she just gave me so much energy. I mean, it was such a net positive for my state of being, and I think that drove it. And yes, we ended up having all of these values in common.

Yes, we ended up having lots of priorities and interests in common, but that was secondary to the feeling.

That's so cool that, you know, one of the things that, you know, you know, I've talked about privately a lot that I think is worth mentioning. You can always cut it out like you do.

By the way, just so people know, you've cut out some shit out of previous forecasts. I don't cut this out. Well, I want to tell people there are now for some legal reasons in some cases. But, yes, you continue.

So I was just going to say that I love that she brings down brought the anxiety level down for you, because one of the things that that I know is is tougher for almost probably anybody that has some some fame and fortune as you have. It's like there are so many people that would date you, you know, because of your quote unquote, Tim Ferriss. And like, there's there's money and fame that goes along with that. Right. So you could go to L.A. and there's any number of people, I'm sure, that you could date because of those reasons and because of that, I know you've had a pretty big wall like you put up a wall to protect yourself because that's not what you want.

You want someone long term, you don't want just like some rando. And it's cool that she.

No, it's cool that she brought that down, though. That's a huge thing for you to find.

I'm happy about that. Yeah, I'm happy about it. Too. Thrilled about it. It's. It's fucking weird, you know, having, you know, meeting people who. Let's just say eight times out of ten have Googled your name beforehand, that's fucking weird. Yeah, it's really, really strange.

And you have to be very careful because let's not kid ourselves like there are a lot of sharks out there.

Yeah, it's been really nice. And her parents are amazing. I've spent a lot of time with her parents and she's very down to earth and by down to earth.

I say that in the most complimentary way possible, right by down to earth like it makes me think of I think his name is Donald News K and but at some point he disavowed email.

I think it was at IBM. I might be making that up. And he said email is great for keeping on top of things he's like, but I don't want to keep on top of things. I want to get to the bottom of things. I'm paraphrasing here. The people who are down to earth from my perspective are like getting to the bottom of things they're aware of, like the tectonic plate level of things moving and their awareness is much more grounded.

I use that word again in what I would consider a true reality then a lot of the people who are higher up in the stack right of abstraction. So there is a computer science analogy here, but I won't be labor that I'll just embarrass myself.

The point being, I felt like she really had her feet on the ground and was paying attention to the important things.

She had an awareness, including a self-awareness, perhaps principle among all of those that led me to feel very comfortable. Right. But when people are surfing that shop, when they're on the surface and it's like whatever's trending on Twitter is directing their attention four hours a day, even if they're on some level, at their core, really good people, it makes them a liability.

So that makes sense because they're so easily swayed to one channel or direction or meme or hashtag or movement or crisis.

Like, that's a very unpredictable person.

I was on. Q Osgoode. I like that. His phone's ringing. I don't know. Call me twice, sorry you get pushed through. Keep going. No problem. Who was that? Was it your bail, Tony?

Tony Conrad. Just freaking call multiple times fucking Tony Conrad. And we're going to Casca. God damn it. Tony is a good friend, so I feel free to give him shit if you guys actually want to, which is a side note, research, a really good early stage investor who's a good dude and really likes his coffee and he will tell you about Bluebottle.

So be prepared. You should check out Tony Conrad. He's a good guy. Also a partner at your firm is a colleague, a co-worker. He's done some good deals. He's got a great guy.

All right. So let's move to the next question. Name a mistake you made in one of your books that you wish you could take back. There has to be something.

Don't say I don't know. There's gotta be something. I mean, there are probably hundreds of them.

Uh. My books are fucking long, I mean, you have so many opportunities. Everybody there had to be something like the consumption of horse urine or there was something in there that you have.

Well, I mean, there was one mistake that I pulled out. So in the first edition of the four hour body, there's a whole chapter on extended Bretholz.

And I realize that's just too dangerous. People don't understand the safety precautions you need to take for breath. BRETHOLZ And it was yanked, so that didn't actually make it depress. Yeah, it made it to press for one printing that was a David Blaine chapter talking about how he trained me to hold my breath for like five minutes.

And I realized that you just have to assume that 90 percent of the people out there aren't going to read any of the safety cautionary tales. They're not going to read the caveats. They're not going to read the preamble. They're going to skip straight to the how to. And it's it's it's very dangerous. So that was one. How about the science? Because the science changes so fast. Is there anything you look back on and you're like, oh, gosh, that's just not accurate anymore?

Well, I will say there was a weight loss stack of supplements called PAG, nicknamed PAG, which was politicus and all probably mispronouncing that, but I've only read it, never heard it said in fact, alpha lipoic acid garlic extract like alisson and green tea extract, preferably decaffeinated.

And of that stack, the most suspect or questionable of those is the first polycrystalline. And there are some studies that came out of Cuba. But like how much can you trust that if they're exporting sugar cane and blah, blah, blah, blah?

So I would say. If I were to put anything on the chopping block, it would probably be public arsenal and really the evidence for that from and if one perspective was my own personal experience, there seemed to be some effect on cholesterol or lipid metabolism with poly and all that increased fat loss above and beyond that, which I was able to achieve with Eigg.

But that is not doubly blinded. That is not randomized. That's not possible controlled.

So but the Alé is there for a fat loss, right? Yeah, so, yeah, I'll fly Polke acid is insulin emetic, as I understand it, it imitates and produces some analagous effect to insulin to a lesser degree. So I've lipoic acid is interesting.

If you overconsume it, it can cause all sorts of issues, which is true of a lot of things. Like you overconsume Zenk, it can inhibit copper absorption, like you have to be very careful suppliments, which is part of the reason why I have really reduced the number of supplements that I consume.

Well, this is a great segue into that question, actually. It's like, what do you consume these days in terms of supplements?

Not much. I take zinc occasionally. I do find it to help sleep. I do find it to help Lucid Dream induction, which we've talked about before. I find zinc interesting also from an immune perspective. But if you overtake it or you take it too consistently, it can cause all sorts of issues I take right now.

B twelve and L methyl folate, Jarrod's specifically, that is your homocysteine levels or is that Y Yeah. Yeah. Related to homocysteine. So that is dependent on my personal blood profile. So that doesn't mean everyone listening to this should take that right.

And I also am taking right now sistas Quadrangle Lárus, which kind of has a funny tie in to us actually and also methyl safonov methane or MSM. I'm taking both of those because I'm nursing a wrist injury and I found them to be very helpful with joint injuries or a connective tissue ligament tendon issues.

So Cyesis Quadrangle Harris is what I took on during our trip to China.

I took off lipoic acid and sissies as I see us. Quadrangle Arace, you'll figure it out. I took those two together before every meal because we were eating pounds of fucking rice every day. Yeah. And I would be doing workouts in my like skivvies with my backpack.

You remember that once you see temperatures in his underwear doing their squats in front of your bed, that you cannot unsee that shit.

And you said something to the effect of, like I said, quit doing.

You're just getting in your fucking underwear. We're all there. Is that there? Is that for sure? And then there was also like we're just getting fatter and fatter and you're doing more and more reps.

Fuck is going on. That was the most confusing part because we were like a weekend on the trip.

And in Glenanne they are just fat as shit from all that, that the rice and you're like six packs are popping out is crazy.

Yeah. So I'm taking that stuff again, but not for the fat loss, for the the, the, the potential joint assistance risks or a huge pan the ass. I jacked my wrist really badly and I want to get back into handstand practice so I'm eager to get it figured out. All right.

Actually leading. I want to stay on that for one more quick topic. Someone was asking, how is your body these days? You talked about your wrist, but these are three questions. Real quick, do you still practice for our body? And what is your approach to longevity? So is there any practices that you're doing now on the longevity side, kind of transitioning out out of the I just put need to put mass on, but more on the while live longer.

Yeah, I would say those are probably inversely proportionate, right? The more you try to put mass on, the shorter you're probably making your life as you're doing over an extended period of time at least.

But I would say body like I'm not in great shape right now. I've had a bunch of injuries which just goes to show like it's I think it's better to have a few extra percentage points of body fat and more strength than to be lean and sacrifice strength.

I think right now I've sacrificed strength for a bunch of reasons. I'm in the jungle, I'm eating pretty poorly and not getting much in terms of resistance training in.

And so so I would say body overall right now is pretty achy and I'll fix that. I have a high degree of confidence that I can fix it, so I'm not worried about it.

Which leads to the four hour body piece. I still follow a surprising amount of what was in the four hour body.

If anything, the vast majority of the four hour body that was viewed very skeptically, was received very poorly, has accrued an incredible amount of scientific support in the last ten years because I was published in 2010. So I am very proud of the four hour body that was kind of the tip of the spear with a bunch of areas that has only received more support in the last ten years. So I'm very happy with that.

And I would say the general tenets still hold for sure. So from from the perspective of slow cadence, weightlifting, ACMS protocol, I probably wouldn't be eating the same food because I'm not trying to gain mass, but using that type of slow cadence or super slow protocol to add muscle mass while minimizing injury potential. Absolutely. I'll be doing a bunch of that. And then there's a bunch of stuff from Tools of Titan. So let's not forget the Tools of Titans was basically my update to four hour work week for our body and for our chef simultaneously.

There's a bunch of stuff in terms of titans related to, say, medius training, related to gymnastic strength training and so on Accredo that I view as a really important component of what I do these days for physical longevity.

Yeah, meaning like how old you feel, I think is how old your joints feel very often.

And aside from that though, like with the longevity stuff, like am I using metformin. No, my using rapamycin, no. Would I consider it maybe at some point. But the most likely thing to kill me is heart disease. So really I can focus on so-called longevity drugs. But for me personally, those longevity drugs might take the form of something like antiserum. I'm probably not a statin due to the fact that I am a hyper absorber of cholesterol, not necessarily a hyper producer.

So you need to get really deliberate and surgical about how you approach medication.

And none of this is medical advice should not be construed as medical advice since who the fuck am I but to talk to your GP. But. I think the obsession this is going to upset some people, but the obsession over longevity is often very misplaced. I got to look I looked at one point at the average lifespans of males in my family on both the paternal and maternal lines. And if they didn't die really, really early, which they clearly didn't, because they lasted long enough to procreate.

But if they didn't get wiped out by, like typhoid fever in at age thirty five or something in the eighteen hundreds, pretty much all of them die at 85, they die around 85. Fucking everybody. And it doesn't matter if it's, you know, 20 years ago or 300 years anyway. It's a good run due. That's not that bad. It's not that bad, so as far as yes, as far as is as you know, pulling straws, like I didn't get the short straw, I didn't get the shortest straw.

But it is striving for immortality. I'm glad there are people who are preoccupied by it and are spending time on it. All things equal, which is never the case, by the way, but all things equal.

Would I prefer to live to 120 versus eighty five? Yeah. Why not? Sure.

But am I going to do caloric restriction every day so my testosterone falls to the floor and like I lose all my muscle mass and I look like a fucking prisoner of war. No, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, yeah, so I I don't spend a lot of time thinking about longevity, persay or ultra long lifespan, I do spend time thinking about what stupid mistakes I can prevent easily or what medications or supplements or interventions I can implement easily that will prevent me from dying earlier than I should based on my genetic average.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's the whole PTA thing, which I think is beautiful, just really digs into the family history and says, what are the things you're going to die from unless prevent those from happening, you know?

Yeah, yeah, totally. It's like. You know, the focus on the fundamentals, the basics.

Next question, best movie to watch on mushrooms as I get on, I you know, it depends a lot on the dose. It depends a lot on that. It's like if you're micro dosing, you can handle one type of movie. If you're on like three grams mushrooms, just look at the little ferret. Just fucking chill out and look at a flower because it's going to, you know, three three rows is actually navigable for a pretty decent percentage of the population.

But like five, six grams just lay down later. Yeah. Just lay down and listen to some really cheesy spa music and fuck and relax because it's going to be an interesting six hours. But but let's just say hypothetically that someone has taken 600 milligrams, three to 600 milligrams of psilocybin mushrooms dried, I would say, spirited away all arguably my favorite movie of all time.

The animated movie Spirited Away will fucking blow your mind.

And if if that isn't interesting, I think soundtrack is important to pay attention to.

Do not watch something, even if it's beautiful like Baraka, if it has a weird, moody soundtrack, that may not be good for you. So I would say something.

My predisposition would be something animated like Lilo and Stitch or How to Train Your Dragon or something like that.

If you try to get too fancy, if you're like, I'm going to watch a moody black and white French film, you're just asking to get fucking kicked in the nuts.

When I was a kid, it was Pink Floyd, the wall. That was not that was not mushrooms. That was weed. So I think that be a little too intense, too intense or much different. Yeah. Different. Yeah. Yeah. My I would say pay attention to soundtrack when in doubt. Pay attention to soundtrack. All right. Next question. What is something you have failed at but haven't spoke enough. People just want to know about your failures and yeah they want all sales.

Number five hundred, the low light rail.

Let's see something. I've failed that but haven't talked about Hesder.

You know, you did this you did the series where you went and did a bunch of episodes. You know, you hack things really quickly and you're so good at, like consuming books and like getting to the meat of what something is and figuring it out. There has to be something where you were just like, I want to figure this out and you just fucking suck at it, right? Like, well, I'm in honestly.

Episode one of the Tim Ferriss experiment. When I did Parkour, which was my insistence, I was like, we're going to do Parkour first episode one.

And I fucked myself up so badly. I mean, I had so many injuries, like elbow, wrist, knee. I tore three of my four quadriceps thigh muscles in front of like quadriceps for right. I tore severely tore three of them from impact, from jumping off of stuff. It was a fucking disaster, like an unmitigated disaster. And I don't think I talked to I've talked about that much.

And so I insisted with in retrospect, the most idiotic reasoning ever that we would do parkour first. And what that meant was we had 13 episodes to film. We were filming every fucking week without a vacation for 13 weeks straight. And the first week I basically became a cripple. Like, I fucking ruined myself. It was so bad. And so, you know, for weeks afterwards, I'm wearing like a medical grade compression pants, which take like an hour to get on.

It's like if you imagine you're a three, I'm not a three year old guy, but just imagine you're like a 300 pound guy and you have like a plastic gap kids fuckin long underwear. You have to get on. It takes forever, like it takes so long. And there are points. I've definitely not talked about this where I was so fucked up after that parkour episode and I'd be wearing these like compression pants just to function to like hobble around like a pirate for, you know, whatever.

I was filming episode two, three, four, and I would get so tired and they took like forty five minutes to get off maybe an exaggeration, but they took fucking forever to get off. It'd be like an extra small wetsuit. They have to get off your legs. And I would be so tired that I'd be like I'd get it down to like my midcap and I'd be like fuck it. And I just laid out on the bed, like with with these with these compression pants around my room, my ankles or my my shins, unable to get them off.

Now just sleep, sleep with these things around my ankles. So that's one that comes to mind.

That's a good one. There are. Yeah, there are many, there are many, but that's that's a colorful one. It's amazing what OK, when it happens, what type of dad do you want to be? Oh, that's a big one when it happens. What kind of dad do I want to be? You've got to leave the space gap in here when we had the episode. Yeah, it's good. Yes, thankfully, I think and everybody I'm watching.

It's like watching a dog try to figure out a maze.

I you know, I think the first I'll go with the first two that come to mind.

I just want to be really present and really engaged.

And loving, obviously, but I I just want to really fucking pay attention and be engaged because I know so many guys, including good friends of mine, who are just like, yeah, man, I'm fucking missed it. Like they grew up so quickly and like, you missed two years. It's like missing 20 years. So I want to be really present and really engaged to you. And I think it's yeah.

If I pay attention to that, I feel like all the tactical sleep training versus attachment versus whatever, like I can figure that all out.

But if you don't have the prerequisite attention and awareness and engagement, then none of that, all that stuff is window dressing.

I feel like when I think about being a father, I think about some of the attributes that my own dad had that were amazing. And I would certainly want to continue those on and then other little tweaks I want to do, because, you know, that's what we're doing. We're kind of pushing things forward. What attributes would you say you did you really enjoy from your father? And there are any little tweaks that you would make. You know, I think my parents did a great job considering the circumstances that we found ourselves in.

Right.

I mean, I think a lot like you, we didn't have very much money. You know, there was not budget for new bikes and stuff like that. We made everything go a long way. Lots of TV dinners, lots of TV dinners. I was there, too. Yeah, the man does. Yeah. God, there was. There was. There's the good, the bad and the ugly with the TV dinners like those shitty brownies were so delicious.

The shitty shitty like brownies in the middle square at the top. Those are so good.

And the fried chicken was good but some of the, some of the TV dinners not so great. We did a lot more beef stew in my house. That was good. I love that.

You know, and there were all these special moments like some of the celebratory, I guess something big happened and we had a celebratory dinner.

We go to Red Lobster. I'm a Red Lobster. We'd have we'd have virgin daiquiris and immediately get brain freeze and then eat those fried mozzarella sticks. And there are so fucking good. So, yeah, I feel like my pasta. Really. Good job on a lot of levels. I will have the benefit of more time. Right, so. If I if I in any way say I don't have time or I feel like I don't have time, I just want to plant the seed now that that is utter horseshit.

Right. Like we make time for the things that matter and. I'm in a much better position than my parents were. And finance, did your dad work alongside travel a lot or work a lot, or what was it like to travel a lot? You know, my my my mom and dad worked a lot and. I'm good at working right, like you and I are both good at playing certain games, and it's very challenging for me at least to sit on the sidelines or switch games when you've spent so much time getting good at certain games.

Yes, part of the reason I'm in the middle of nowhere right now is to just create a little bit of space and. And prevent myself from overcommitting to a bunch of new projects just because I have a void or a vacuum and. I'm excited about the. You know, fatherhood, but being a parent, I mean, I'm excited for you. I think it's going to be a fun, fun chapter. And a long chapter, long chapter, yeah, the longest chapter, especially at our age, man, I just think the thing I think about is just like when our kids are twenty one, we're going to be so old.

It's going to be crazy. We're going to be we're going to be really old. You and I can go to the park with walkers together. Exactly. All right. Next question from this is I had to say the name because this is a tweet from Hun's conduit. So some guys use his business accounts to say this guy runs Conduit, which is great.

Tim famously asks his guests about a message that would hypothetically plaster on a billboard. Will you asked him about his current message.

What would your current billboard message be?

Yeah, I don't know. My message is still the same. It hasn't changed much.

And that is and I've borrowed this from other people. But you are the average of the five people you associate with most. Yeah, that's a great way.

I like like whoever you spend a lot of time with, like you are going to absorb and vice versa.

Right. They're going to absorb you so. Really be aware of that.

Like physically, emotionally, psychologically, financially, yeah, it's so true, I've just seen it confirmed over and over and over and over again for me and for other people.

Yeah, that's a great one. I don't think you can get better than that one. That's great. Next question from Ryan. Hair transplant. Questionmark gives you a hair transplant. No, not at this point. The technology has come a long way.

Do not knock that right away, because there are there's it looks really good. I have a couple of friends who done it. They're not going to be named here, but it can it could look amazing.

Look, I mean, here's my perspective. There is one reason. For me to get here, by the way, if this is financial, I will pay for your hair transplant. I'm going to do that right now. I'm serious. I'm serious. I will pay for right now.

Go on the record. Do I need Kev Kev etched in the side like kids playstyle? Exactly. I number one, I'm very fortunate to have a reasonably regular Dohm, so I don't have a whole lot of Moghuls on my skull.

And I don't mind being bald, but I really don't mind it.

And I think I led into it easily by starting to shave my head when I was like 12, 13 and wrestling. So I'm accustomed to it. The second thing is I would get. There's so much shit from people forever, if I had some weave, like if of you have ever seen Hellboy, but there's that one guy who has hair and plants and it just looks like Ken Doll, I would get so much more shit.

Yeah, it's too late that I do. I would be disinclined.

And then, you know, third and I think I was saying this earlier, to cut myself off, like, why do guys care?

I think ninety nine times out of a hundred, it's because they want to have they want to be more attracted to women or get laid more often by having hair like period, full stop.

I don't care. I don't care about that. Right. Like, I'm I'm very, very happy with my girlfriend.

We're planning on having a family together. And like, if if I couldn't be with someone because I didn't have hair, I don't want to be with them in the first place.

Like, that's your that's that's a that's a very charitable easy layup, yellow or red flag for any guy, by the way, that you did the right thing. Like the wrong thing is leaving, like decides on and just kind of going with the bald top, like the power donut, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm not look, there are a few people who can pull that off, like if you're what's his name, Commander Picard or whatever, Star Trek.

Like, if you're somebody that bad ass, you can pull off the power donut if you're like a hedge fund manager, just just gives zero fucks and is a master of the universe. And you're just like, look, I can I can move global markets and decimate currencies with one twitch of my pinky finger.

Great. Then like, keep the power donut. I do not have the confidence or the wherewithal or the skill set or the power to make that work for me. So. Well, it looks great. It's nice and shiny right now. The lights sit in the right direction. It's beautiful as a healthy sheen to it. Like us, like a dog coat.

All right.

Moving on to the next question, your favorite episode in why? And I will say that with the caveat that we you know, you can mention the one that you talked about that was really dear to you, that you did a few episodes back. But I think outside of that particular episode about the there around the abuse. Yeah.

I mean, favorite episode is is I get this question quite a bit. It's hard to get a favorite episode because almost all of my episodes have some personal driver behind them. So the reason I do episodes vary so widely that there is objectively no one best, even subjectively there is no one best.

It has everything to do with what my goals or challenges might be at any given point in time, I think. Let me ask you two questions.

I'm going to hold on. Let me ask you two questions that we can harness in a little bit. Favor fanboy episode. Meaning I oh my God, I can't believe I had this person my podcast. And then I'd also love to know I know who it is as Hugh Jackman, isn't it. Right. Hugh Jackman is super high up that that was definitely a huge one. Arnold Schwarzenegger was the first, like, gigantic fan boy. Yeah. Episode Jamie Fox, another one.

I mean, those three episodes are also killer. Like, they weren't just fanboy encounters, but they were really strong episodes. Yeah, really, really strong episodes.

So fanboy moments, there are a ton of them. I mean, I've spoken with so many people, I never thought I would ever have any interaction with Jerry Seinfeld. I mean, it's a long list.

It's a long, long list.

But certainly Hugh Jackman is way up there, Arnold Schwarzenegger way up there, Jamie Fox and Jerry and so many others.

Those are a few. How about someone that just really surprised you or you're like, oh, I should have this person on then you had him on.

You're like, God damn, that was a good episode. There are so many chemicals. You just had to be one. Yeah, I love I love the fanboy episodes, but those are names that people automatically know. I mean, they're household names, right. B.J. Miller, who is a hospice care physician. And I think the episode it was titled something like B.J. Miller, the man who's helped a thousand plus people to die, something like that.

That episode had a huge impact on me. Still does. Then you have people like. Mary Karr is an author and very well known memoir writer. And teacher who's just incredible, that episode is pretty recent car K.R., she was incredible. Let's see here, honestly.

I mean, I have to mention again, but just like there are certain episodes like Jamie Fox or Hugh Jackman, where you're like, holy shit, I hope my equipment is working. Yeah, exactly. So fucking good. And you're like, oh, my God, if this fails, I will just have to throw myself out. I mean, when I interviewed Elon Musk on my show, I was like, please do not fail hard drive like, you know, because you're like, oh yeah, yeah.

Totally, totally crazy.

Yeah. They're so there are there are those moments for sure. What was it like for you to interview Elon? It was hell, I've never we've never talked about it. I mean, he's he's a really cool guy. He was super friendly. And I've met him a couple of times at various parties and stuff, and he's always been really nice to me. I think he knew me from back in the days when I created Dick or, you know, he was it wasn't it was clear to me that it wasn't just some like he had heard of some stuff I had created, which was nice because I could do a little bit of that in in a way to have a conversation.

I loved it.

I thought it was a lot of fun. I mean, I try to ask him some questions that were just a little bit like not the ones the standard reporter would ask. And so he had a good time with it. We talked a lot.

We just talked about like I always like to go really, really back to his childhood and like some of the entrepreneurial kind of moments he had growing up and some of the things he was a fan of and some of the comic books he was into, like nobody talks about that, you know, but he talks about his favorite comic books on my my show, like stuff like that.

So it was yeah, it was a really we talked about Space X and some of the stuff that he was doing with Hyperloop before it was announced. Yeah, it was, it was awesome. Nice. Obviously he's quite the icon these days. This is a couple of years ago, so. Yeah, Tony Stark, totally in the flesh. All right, moving on to the next episode, our next episode, the next question, what do you think about all the recent government UFO footage?

Is it real?

Well. Do you believe in UFOs? I don't know if it's real in the sense, do I know? I don't know if the footage is real. I've read way too much about, you know, well documented programs like MK Ultra with the CIA. And so, I mean, it's like it's it's very hard to know what is propaganda and what is not. What does it alter or what is that?

This is sort of the deliberate and nonconsensual administration of LSD by the CIA as a possible truth serum or destabilizing agent and all sorts of craziness. And you have also looked very closely at the Stargate program, which was utilizing remote viewers or those considered to be remote viewers, remote perception and all this craziness. So, like, are UFOs real thug?

I don't know. I will say this. That's a big question. But above my pay grade, I will say this, though, that there are a few places on Long Island that are fairly well.

Known by locals for having what some people consider UFO sightings, and when I was a kid on Long Island, I and a whole car full of people, including like a babysitter and some other people all saw some weird object like fly across the sky, hover for a period of time, kind of bounce around and then shoot off at speeds that made no sense.

So was that. An illusion, was it caused by some type of weather pattern, right, like the lights of Marfa in Texas are supposedly created by some type of phenomenon that can be explained meteorologically. Was it that?

Was it test flights for some type of aircraft being performed by the government, which are unknown, unannounced? Was it some type of aircraft from elsewhere?

I mean, either way, it is an unidentified flying object. So do I believe in UFOs? Yeah, I believe in UFOs.

Are they aliens? Fast fucked, if I know, like, I have no idea, but. I'm in a remain open to the possibility, yeah. All right, let's move on to the next question. This one is a little bit this was a little bit harder than last, right? Have you ever tried Viagra? If so, thoughts.

We're going to get into it. Yeah, this is great. Yeah, this is great. So I have tried Viagra, I've tried everything.

I mean, I've tried just about everything minus heroin.

And I actually had a really scary response to a small amount of Viagra, which was I got a shooting pain like a ACSA pick in the brain pain from taking it, which has made me contraindicated from taking I don't know if Viagra is a what is it, a phosphor destress inhibitor of some type. But I have to be very careful with that stuff because in a small percentage of the population, you're going to have these massively powerful adverse events.

Does that apply to all like Cialis and stuff like that, or is that just Viagra?

I don't I don't know. I'm not I'm not sure did it didn't matter is. Oh, I'm in it.

But yeah, I mean, not to get too graphic here, but yeah, it was fucking fantastic. I mean, that stuff. Why the hell do you think it's so popular. Like, yeah, it works as advertised. It's like why do athletes use anabolic steroids.

Because they fucking work. Right. I mean like there are certain drugs that really deliver as advertised. You just have to be aware of the possible side.

If I had a really weird experience with that stuff, that stuff is strange.

Well, hold on, you can't let that hang so well, I just feel like it's well, we're a couple of glasses of wine in trying to ride that fine line.

So I'm going to say this in a very pissy way, the best I can at this moment in time. That was in a piece.

OK, so when you take it, you know, 30 minutes later, it kicks in and you can tell by like you feel like a fluffiness in your face. Did you get that? They kind of like like tingly flashes in your face. I got a flush in my my so that I don't know what happens next is things elevate. And when they do so it's like at the it's like blowing a blue balloon to like 12 when it should be at a 10 and you reach down when you reach down, it feels like it's another dudes thing because it's like it's way bigger than you.

You're used to riding because it's easier to twist. The knob is gone to a 12. So it's just confusing, that's all.

But it does it does make it does make you feel like you're a Dragonslayer for a couple hours at least.

Like it's just, you know, you'd agree with that, though, right? Yes, it is.

I think Dragon slaying on Viagra is definitely going to make it into the headline of this episode. It is. It is a weird thing. It is definitely a weird thing. I bought mine in Mexico, of all places. This is like, yeah, you got to be careful. You got to be careful. Who knows? Like, if it was like an amplified dose or something, but yeah, kind of insane.

Could have been Clorox basically. All right.

Any other four hour books in the future.

None planned. Are you done here yet. You're done with the four hour. Yeah, I think so, that's fair, that's fair. Rest in peace for our. The four hour thing was it was fun for me. Remember, I used this place to set you you set you text of like the four, there was a four hour lunch in the laundry cleaner in S.F. and I would I do I like, walk by foot for a long time to do so.

It goes on Van Ness or something. That's right. I remember that.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I've thank you for your service for our. I think I am. I'm done. It's retired. His jersey framed on the wall. Nice. What a beautiful chapter. And it was chapter. That was a good chapter. A good couple of chapters was.

All right. So what will you be doing at age 50 and 60?

That was the actual question. Yeah. So I just retirement.

I don't know why they picked those years, but like let's just say later in life, like give me what is Tim Tim look like 20, 30 years from now. Yeah.

You know, retirement. I don't think that's a thing. Yeah. I just. I sort of enjoy getting amongst it too much. I can imagine, like just like sitting around doing so Sudoku all day watching Wheel of Fortune or something. I just I don't think it's going to be me.

So 50 or 60. I mean, let's see. I'm the star of the far off 50. You know, I'm forty three. How old. You're a..

Forty three. I can imagine forty for this seven years away. I know it's crazy, one turning of the locusts and we're 50. So 50. I mean, let's just say I have, like, you know, six or seven year old kid at that point. I will probably be in increasingly cantankerous and salty, I will be increasingly uninterested in social consensus or social media or. I mean, I feel like that's due to the popularity things. Yeah, so it was yeah, I think it'll just be like ten plus it'll be like Tintin plus I love it.

I think there's I think there's a good chance that I will be spending more months of the year with the family in and surrounded by nature, less time in urban environments.

From an athletic perspective, I would I would anticipate to still be doing things like acro yoga, skiing, probably weight training at least once per week. I think they'll become more and more and more important.

Still, I will be paying deep attention to and supporting psychedelic research and other aspects of that type of medicine work.

I it's hard for me to envision a huge change aside from Focus on Family, which I think will be a gigantic shift. But I would hope not to have to contend with any major medical emergencies or crises in my family. But TBD. I mean, 60.

If I'm 60, you that could be at the point where my parents one or both passed, which will be a huge transition. I don't know how that will affect me. It's impossible to predict. For me, I just I just don't know. I don't even have a point of reference. Yeah. You know, let's move on to the next question. We've got a couple more left and then we can wrap things up. And I do have some extra bonus ones if you want to keep going.

But bonus, bonus, do it. All this to the last Sakar or a quick Sakia one.

What's your quote unquote. Holy shit today. Soft drink or drug of choice. Soccer. That's a great one. Well, it depends on at what time of the day.

I determined that the day is already six p.m. if it's. Well, hold on. So if, if it, if I wake up and I'm just getting fucking haymakers for like the first two hours of the day and I'm like, wow, like today is already second donkey dick. This is terrible.

Then I might just fucking call it and have a day of mushrooms and walk through the forest just like I'm done.

DTAP I am complete so that that's one I would say otherwise.

The one that is ill advised for me is drinking copious amounts of caffeine. Right. Having just like four or five, six cups of coffee which it's like on the way up, on the way up. Feel so good and you get so manic and like you forget all your worries and then the coin flips and you just feel like an anxious mess on the way down. So that's that's a mixed blessing for sure.

I would say gin and soda like a hendriksen and soda or a CUSA. Are this like a tequila and soda at like dusk.

So these days like a five thirty kind of happy hour, like you know what, I'm not going to try to like squeak this out and grind for another hour, hour and a half like no going to call this one at four thirty five if it's really brutal. If you're just like why. Like if I, if I'm still in the game I'm just like limping along with the ball, getting crushed by like 500 pound linebackers. Like what am I doing this for.

This is pointless. Then it's a gin and soda or tequila and soda. What was the gin that you gifted me? Botanist. I think you were given those out of one year for around the holidays. Was a botanist. You were. Oh. Could a botanist anyone in. I love it since the best. Yeah. It's so much more, so much more interesting than vodka.

Right. Like the botanical garden there. And it's, it's a fantastic beverage.

I love, I love clean tequila. I love interesting, Jane, and there's something called So Tall, so TSL, which is found in Texas, which is also quite interesting, it's it's for people who need a. Maybe a comparison, it might be somewhere between tequila and mescal. Oh, so a little more than. Yeah, but not as this company called. Yeah, exactly this and there's a brand I think, called Desert Door, which makes some really nice, so it's pretty hard to get.

I also find that quite interesting. But if you drink enough of that to get plastered, you are going to feel it for sure the next day. Yeah. Oh, bad like hangover type. Stuff like that, it's got that smoky, it's got that smoky element, right? Same with Miskell. Yeah, I mean, I feel like a donkey donkey's kicked me in the eye for, like, an ashtray mouth the next morning. Like, you're just like.

Oh, like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, who had a campfire in my mouth. Right. That one.

So you mentioned Dragon is I think it's important not to skip over that one. Fantastic tequila.

Yeah, and also fantastically expensive tequila, they actually make a less expensive version now, a couple of them, which. Oh, nice. Yeah, Kassa that are going to the House of the Dragon makes some really nice stuff. And I was introduced to that. Yeah. Pretty funny story. So I was first exposed to that. Am I making you sick with this little camera keeps. I think I'm going out of focus and it's like zooming in and out.

I'm like if I drank that much I can keep going.

It's like the cinematographer, like imitation of being drunk. Oh my God, it's making me seasick. Just looking at my own my own image, going in and out of focus.

But in any case, I consider going as I was first exposed to when I spent time with a friend of mine who's a former Navy SEAL, and he and a bunch of guys were doing weapons training and shooting range practice with, you know, all sorts of like R platform handgun, need a sidearm, you name like all sorts of stuff. And their ritual was to then go back to the house, disassemble all the guns and clean all the guns while they're all sipping Cassadaga and.

Oh, my God.

Well, you may disassemble like like all the way down to bare metal or like, what are you talking about.

Just click just clean them. Yeah. Yeah, cleaning them, but in some cases disassembling the handguns and so on. And they're doing this very safely.

But we're just like sitting around with a bunch of like hypermasculine dudes who are like real professionals. I don't know what I'm doing, but like cleaning guns, drinking, sipping tequila. Right. Like no mix's, no cocktails, just drink it, sipping tequila and like, it was amazing.

It was a great experience and a really great group of guys.

And I had that and I had always had the association with tequila that it gave you a nasty hangover. And I drank so much of this tequila woke up the next day and I felt like a million bucks and like, how is that even possible?

So did you read about it? You know what the deal is? It's been filtered 12 times. The dragon is the. Well, there you go.

Yeah, it's like more like a super ultra filtered. It's like the cleanest of the clean. Like it's that's why it's so expensive. It's fantastic. Yeah. So if you feel like getting to get a nice gift for somebody or for yourself. Yeah. That's one option. All right.

Two more questions. Does anything make you feel old or does anything make you feel young? Well, makes me feel old would be aching joints, so elbow that I've had elbow surgery on the wrist that I've jacked up. I injured my lower back recently in a stupid accident. Joint pain. Yeah. Makes me feel old. Same dude sucks for sure.

Like muscular pain I could deal with, but like joint pain makes me feel old, makes me feel young. Riding bicycles and riding.

My girlfriend goes to see this dude is not going to make it is.

It'll make it. It'll make it was great to those, to those two things. Keep me young. All right.

This is the last question and it's more serious when I wanted to end with this one, because I do want you to take it seriously. You know, we don't know how much time we have left. And I am curious, when you die, what do you ultimately want to be remembered for? For our Schäfer, the stupid meme videos that I text Kevin twice a week, I think about that, you know, I don't think any of us are remembered for that long.

I think that kind of overfocusing on legacy. Can. Warp and contort, a lot of thinking about. Life and what you pursue. I think it can lead you to pursue things for prestige and I think the prestige, approval, guilt, shame are all really bad reasons for doing things oftentimes.

And, you know, as we were talking earlier about parenting and what kind of father I want to be, you know, of talking about awareness and engagement being these prerequisites for other things, you can try the tactical stuff, but if you lack that base level, that foundation, the rest of it doesn't really matter.

I think that in the last 10 years, especially five years, especially last five months in particular, I've realized that without hope, the rest of it just doesn't really matter. Right. It's like you can give someone the prescription, the how to you should do this. You should do that. But without some level of hope and and hope to me is slightly has a slightly different feeling to it than optimism. I think optimism can be a part of hope, but that hope is broader without without some element of hope.

A lot of that other stuff just doesn't matter and get what gets washed away. So I would like to be you know, I used to say when people ask me, like, what would you want to be remembered for?

Like on your gravestone, I was like, well, as a as a sort of creator of master students who are better than himself. Right. That was an answer that I had.

And I think now it would be as a purveyor and provider of hope, like someone who's providing hope to people who feel hopeless and not in a misleading, not in a Pollyanna ish, not in a naive way, like I'm providing hope because I am a test subject, like I'm a guinea pig. I am someone who suffered from severe, extended, repeated bouts of depression, who is on the front lines trying to encourage the testing and research of things like psilocybin and others that show incredible promise for these so-called intractable, untreatable psychiatric conditions, whether that's depression or MDMA, assisted psychotherapy for complex treatment, resistant PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder or.

Opioid use disorder, anorexia, these things that have really found no home from which they can be treated effectively, that they'll be one example, you know, one dimension to it. So I would say as a as a seeker, as a fellow leader and hopefully spreader of hope. Well, that's what I want, I got to tell you, I think that I a lot of people would agree with the statement and that everything that you've done, I mean, when I first met you, was at your book launch party for the four hour workweek and then later the four hour body like that.

Those have all been about hope. They've been about how can I improve myself, you know, and how can I live and do things on my own time and by my own design. And I'd live a healthier lifestyle. And then now taking it to the more philanthropic side of things and working on mental health like this is the easy thing for you to accomplish, because like you've already done it, like your your career has been all about hope. So I think you inspire a lot of people and for that reason.

So that's great. It's thanks, man. No, I'd say it's something to look up to.

Like I know you and I talk about this and we have a slightly different take on philanthropy and that, you know, I've done bits and pieces of it. My take and it could be the wrong one, but I'm in the prime of my earning career and I think that I want to, like, get a little bit more resources so that I can do bigger impact things long term. But like, you're definitely an inspiration for me on that front.

And certainly something that I want to eventually imitate and figure out how to do is have a bigger impact in that way. So thank you for all that you've done on that. And dude, it's been awesome that you'd even share the space with me for Episode five, so thank you for that as well. Now, thanks, Kev, Kev.

Yeah, it's you know, I want to give my give some some additional thanks to my girlfriend so that I don't have my last mention of her in the same answer at the bicycle, which which is, you know, when I was considering.

What to do? About sharing my experiences with abuse as a kid.

I told her about the plans for the book, the possible book, which would be years off in the future, and the possibility of then doing a podcast, maybe as a stopgap measure or even a replacement for doing the book because it would be sooner and. No, she just made the point that if you looked at the discrepancy between those two, let's say a podcast coming out in a few months and a book coming out four or five years later, that.

There there would be and there are many people who would die by natural causes, take their own lives via suicide or otherwise not ever have access to the book. Who would benefit from the podcast, and I think that there is there's compounding of wealth and resources. And you can make many compelling arguments for if and when to jump into the fray to try to address problems based on compound interest and so on. I would just offer to people who are thinking about this for themselves that there are certain problems that compound also.

And there are certain problems. Certain subsets of populations and so on who are more easily reached, more easily addressed, more easily helped now than they will be in a year or two years because the problems compounded at a faster rate than your capital.

So, you know, that's that's that's one perspective that I would offer.

Not to say that everybody should immediately jump into the fray and use as much as they can afford to effect change in the world. I don't think that's true for everyone. I think it's absolutely not the case for everyone, but for me, at least with some of these mental health conditions and having the ability to set precedent. Right.

To create the first center in the world dedicated to psychedelic research, to create the first center in the U.S. dedicated to psychedelic research and consciousness research offered me a rare window and opportunity to tip the first domino in a way that I knew would then trigger and unlock all sorts of other developments.

Right. So I was able to put in, say, a million dollars with the expectation that it would generate ten or one hundred million dollars an impact.

So I so I do think that you got to pick your time. You got to pick your target. You really want to be surgical with this stuff and very thoughtful. And there are sometimes just like with startups, right. There are some times when you're like, oh damn, there is that one window. Yeah. That door opens a crack and that's your shot. Yeah. You have a real opportunity to make an impact. And for me, I just felt that way in the last few years.

Yeah, but I'm excited to I'm excited to see what you do to men.

Yeah. It makes it makes a lot of sense if you think about it, because there was this little tipping point that happened where all of a sudden there was a window to create some research around psychedelic use. You know that because if the government had totally locked this thing down, like, let's say we were in some country that was clamped down on both the federal and state level, it would be probably like pissing away money at that point. Right.

Because they wouldn't you wouldn't even be able to fund research. But you found a window. The momentum was going in the right direction. And now, you know, we're seeing benefits from that in terms of it being legalized like in Oregon and other places where this could be real therapies going in into people in the next year or so, you know, which is really cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's moved a lot faster than I ever could have hoped. And there's there are going to be challenges. They're going to be setbacks are going to be messes. They're going to be.

Players in the arena with less than pure motives, which is to be expected, and that's all that's all part of the game.

So, yeah, well, the last thing I want to say is and I'd be curious to know how you were able to do this in yourself, is that one of the things that I I want to push more forward, especially given that I have a couple daughters and I think that more men should be vulnerable. People like able to talk about, like you've talked about suicide and depression and child abuse and like all these really tough, sensitive topics. And, you know, I've certainly talked about couples therapy and the abuse my father gave my mom and things like that.

Like we need to encourage more of that. And I just want to say thanks to you, you've helped me be more open with myself and my audience about those things. And I think it's that like starting that conversation with Tim can talk about it. I can tell it's such an important thing that we all need to do. Well, thanks, Kevin. Thanks, man.

This is a truth, though, dude. Like, it really is like it helps me when I you talk about this stuff, I can talk about it like and I know that's the same with so many other people. So. So anyway. Thanks, brother. Cheers to you, brother.

Congratulations on five hundred wishing you the five hundred more or a thousand more. We'll see.

When do you hang it up, by the way, how many you think you got left in you? I have no plans to hang it up. Good point. You know, this this gives me this is. This is joyful for me. It's fun for me. And if it stops being fun, it's either time to hang it up or more likely, it's time for me to change something. And I've just succumbed to some temptation that I need to fix.

Right. Like for this episode, let's take this episode as an example. Number five. Right. I could have done like lessons learned over five hundred episodes and done like a monologue. Right.

Instead you get biodegradation. Yeah. Which is more fun. Right. It's more fun for me. It's more fun. It gives me more energy, gives me more pleasure. Like this is a good time.

And like you said, you don't know how much time you have left. Nobody does. And so it's like if if you're not having fun, at least in my life, like chances are it's my fault. Yeah. Fucking fix it, you know?

And if the choices you're making, your default choices or the way things are set up aren't working, change it. Experiment, try something else. So for me, the way that, you know, I used to do six episodes a month with the podcast, I cut back to four on average.

And I used to handle, say, sponsorships and this that the other thing a certain way. And then I changed it because it was starting to feel like an obligation and I was starting to procrastinate and not look forward to it. So, you know, this is, I think, a game of iteration. And what what might give me joy today might not give me joy tomorrow. And things change. They evolve over time.

But I love doing the podcast, so it wouldn't surprise me if I do another five hundred, another thousand and then take a look and reassess.

Yeah, I think that really it doesn't really matter where you are in life, because I remember, you know, when I was not like being a VC and doing these things, I left Olive Garden, which had good tips and unlimited breadsticks to work at Computer City for less pay. But you know what? I was a hell of a lot happier when I was working in Computer City than I was in Olive Garden. So it's like you just got to do it to change it up.

If it's not working, switch it up. You've got to switch it up, man. It's so good to see. Yeah. I miss you, brother Amisi, to see you in person sometimes. So let's get these shots to make it happen. Seriously. Exactly right. And to everybody listening. I love you guys. You know, I really so deeply appreciate everybody listening. It gives me the opportunity to play. It gives me the opportunity to push to challenge myself, also to try to do things I don't think I can do with respect to this podcast to wrangle people I think can't be Wrangell.

That also just as important to shoot the shit and talk about Viag or people like.

Yeah, so so I really, really appreciate everyone who tunes into this podcast. And I know this has been a Lucy Goosey banter filled episode, but this is what I wanted to do. And ultimately, the only way I'll keep doing this is if I have some fun along the way.

Thanks for having me, Tim. That was awesome. Yeah, brother, I'll see you soon.

Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is five bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday if that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend and five? Black Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest. Things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week that could include favorite new albums that I've discovered, it could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up into the world of the esoteric as I do.

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