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What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vial Files' Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, nick, joined by the household we got. Ali is with us in Saint Paul, Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet boy Justin, and Cierra is with us right now. It's going to be a long day. It's bachelor finale day. By the way, congratulations to Joey and Kelsey, the happy couple. They are together. They definitely have a love that's fun to watch. They're an adorable couple.

I like attractive couples, so yay.

They're definitely a hot couple for sure. They're very lovely. We will have the pleasure of speaking with the happy couple on this week's Going Deeper. We'll be so excited about that. That'll be super That's exciting for us. Also, our hearts go out to Daisy, the runner-up, fellow runner-up part of the club. Welcome, Daisy, to the runner-up club, of which I am a two-timer.

Do we clap for that?

Yeah, sure.

Let's clap for that. Also, congratulations to Jen, the first Asian bachelorette. Very big congratulations. Definitely a lot of discourse around the choice. But we'll be breaking down all things bachelor finale at the end of this episode because we'll be watching it later. Anyways, we have a very special guest today. Super excited to welcome then the host of the hit podcast, Disrespectfully. Katie Maloney and Dana Carthen. Carthen? Why do you always do this?

You were so close. You did this last time.

I know. Well, I do that because I get it in my head.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Dana Caithon. How are you, ladies?

Excellent.

How are you? Can I say it clean? Or do you want it to be wrong on the show? Or do you want to give me shit? It's all up to you.

I think keep that. Keep it in. I think because it's just going to happen every time.

Eventually it'll be Dana Kather.

Just so you know now. Danny Cathy. He looks at me sometimes and goes, Hi, Sheena. Oh, sorry.

I called her Sheena twice last week. Excuse me? Yeah. It was a...

Yeah, I know. This is a nick problem, so it's fine.

I'm fine with it. I have so much going on in my head right now. It's broken. Okay. Anyways, ladies, how are you? Welcome to the show.

Thanks. I'm a bit tongue.

Tongue, hungover.

Do you want to say how many margaritas you had? I think it's noteworthy.

I think it was about six.

Over some time.

But they come, they bring it to you in a little carafe. So that's like one and a half at a time.

That's how I prefer my margaritas. One and a half.

So did you have six of those? Yeah. Oh, okay.

She's a trooper.

What did you do?

I was at Casa Vega for a solid seven hours. With who? Chilling with one of my friends. Oh, wonderful. It was like a new friend, so we had to learn all-Oh, you got a friend date?

Yeah. Love. Was this a platonic friend date? Yeah. I don't know. It's a later... You're out there dating? I don't know.

No, this is like a new girlfriend.

Love. I love a friend date.

Yeah, I made a new friend for us. How did it meet?

I know. I'm feeling a little threatened right now, but that's fine.

We bonded over talking about margaritas, so then we went and had to drink margaritas. I love that.

Do we think there's going to be a second date? For sure.

I love it. Promising.

No, we need to celebrate. We need to We celebrate making friends in our society today at all ages because no one has friends. We're all buried into our phones.

Yeah. I think people feel awkward about making new friends in your 30s or something because you make friends at school, you make friends sometimes in the workplace, but making friends, meeting somebody one time out at a party, and you're like, Let's hang out sometime. You feel awkward about it. I know.

I don't know. Everyone's like, Yeah, sometime.

We should do that sometime.

Sometimes.

That never comes.

No. You need a hard... How did you... Who is the one, but when?

Well, we've been friends. We follow each other on Instagram. Then we just started talking. We're like, Okay, well, when are you free? Coming up. Then it was just like, Let's go sometime next week. Then I was like, When are you free?

Why wasn't Dana invited?

Yeah. By the way, I texted her and I was like, Hey, do you want to go to lunch? She's like, No, I'm going to lunch with my friend. Or she's like, I'm on my way or whatever, and she wouldn't respond to any of my text.

Because when I don't know this person, it's like you don't want to bring two people who know each other. Then there's one person who doesn't. You know what I mean?

Then it's an interview. Then it's just like, Hey.

Well, yeah, you have to make sure.

And how do you feel about?

Yeah, you have to make sure the dynamic's good.

So we're going to give you a situation. What would you do?

Yeah, I don't know.

Well, we've talked about that on disrespectfully that making friends in your 30s and 40s, 50s on is difficult. But you and I both value friendships a lot. Yes.

Yeah. Honestly, I don't even think it's difficult for adults, these dick-a-ful. You have the dick time right now. What did you do this weekend?

Went out, got tattoos. We had a late night. Tattoos, plural. Tattoos. Got two new tattoos. Loved them. We ended up having a late night. I got back at 3:00 in the morning on Sunday, but we did almost go to an after-party, but decided to pivot and do taco Bell instead. So we ate taco Bell like animals. That is an after-party. You're right. It is an after-party in and of itself. Then yesterday, I did a little bit of bed rot and then went to Olive Garden, which is still trying to get them to sponsor us. Solid. Bed rot. How many times do I have to shout your name, Olive Garden?

I used to work there.

Did you? Was it a pain in the ass to make the soup salad and bread six? I heard servers get annoyed because they have to do it themselves in the back.

What do you mean do it themselves?

Like, get it all prepared and sent as opposed to- Sure.

You have to scoop it. You don't exactly have to make it. Well, yeah, I don't think you're back to making minestrone. You're the only thing that annoyed me about it because the all you can eat soup salad and breadsticks, you know you're not going to make any money.

So cheap, yeah.

I always tip very well on that. The cheap ones come in for the unlimited soup salad breadfix. You're like, All right, well, you guys can go fuck yourself.

Listen, It's so good, though.

Yeah, but if you're going to get unlimited soup salad and breadsticks for 6.99, I don't know what it costs these days. It depends on- Take care of your wait staff.

It depends on if it's lunch or dinner. If it's us- If it's us.

If it's you, you're ordering seven margaritas.

Also that, correct.

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not worried about you. You're lush. But also you're a former server. You understand. Yes. You understand when it's the plight of the industry people. That's correct. Yeah. That's correct. Would How did you do?

I went out on Friday night with a friend to an event. I had some drinks. Then Saturday was when I stayed in bed all day. Then Sunday is reset, get ready for the week. Here I am.

What did you do?

I also had a friend date on Friday, so Katie and I are aligned.

Was this a new friend? It was just making- It was a new friend.

It was our second friend date.

How did it go?

I thought it went very well.

She's a big Bravo reality TV fan, so it was very How did you guys meet? I slid into her DMs. Love. I love the vulnerability. Justin. Making the first move. I hang with my little kitty, and I made sushi. Like a cat. Okay. That kitty. I don't know. That's specified. What? Who knows? It's 2024. That could mean anything. Oh, my God. I just got her, so she's like a little baby. She wakes me up in the night.

What's her name? Ruby. I'm going to need to see photos. I'll show you photos. Wait, sorry. What was the name?

Ruby.

Fantastic name, first of all. Second of all, I'm going to need to see photos as soon as possible. I'll show you.

She's five years old, so she's like a little woman.Oh, my God.But I love it. She's like an adult. You adopted. Yeah. Good for you. Natalie and I hopped up for the first time in eight months. It was good.Nice. Great.

Fun. We brought Rivers Cradle outside.

How was that for her?

A little awkward. For us, really.

She was fine. It was a good time.

It was her first weekend alone because her mom has been with us.

Did she go back?

She went back. She'll be back here in a few weeks, but she went back to take care of her garden.

How's it been without the help?

Honestly, great. Her mom has been so much help, but now- You guys got this? We got this, yeah. Heck, yeah. It's been great. Honestly, really no complaints. It's been nice to have her mom there every once in a while, hold the babies. Honestly, we do have a baby consider, which has been helpful, which is a family friend, which I can appreciate Sheena's plight. That's maybe the only thing about Sheena recently that I've been like, Yeah, that makes sense. Before we get into all things Reality Recap, I It was over the weekend. I'm going to go on a little bit of a soapbox. I know this is just like fun games, reality recap, and we keep it very light and fun because this is the show where we get to like your favorite reality TV shows. You just get to mentally check out at work and listen to us. But New Dad over here found out that Did you hear that Pornhub is no longer accessible in the state of Texas?

No, but that's not surprising.

Why?

I mean, it's Texas.

Everything is- But do you know why?

No. Why?

Again, for all of Texas' faults, I'm not here I'm not aligned with everything in Texas. But it's my understanding. I didn't research this thoroughly, but it's my understanding that the PornHub is no longer available in the state of Texas because they finally said, Wait, you have to make sure miners aren't on this site.

Meaning participating in videos or watching it?

No, just watching it. Right now, anyone can go on PornHub or any of these porn sites. Your 13-year-old child, your your 16-year-old child, your 12-year-old child can just... Nothing's stopping them. There's no actual verification. They might ask you if you're 18, but all you have to do is say yes. State of Texas was like, No, you have to make sure our kids aren't able to watch your smut. Pornhub was like, We'll just leave. I am here to say that's so fucked up. Again, for all of Texas's faults or whatever. I'm sure someone's going to write us in and be like, Oh, well, that part of legislation that are here. I read some of the article, the lawyer for, I think, Pornhub was basically like, Well, you're going to hurt the content creators and their ability to earn money. You're not actually going to help the kids. Listen, I don't fucking know. I'm not a senator or a congressperson. I don't know exactly how you do this or how you enforce this law, but I'm just here to say as a society, I definitely think we need to wake the fuck up. I think it's alarming that none of us know or realize that our kids can go on fucking PornHub and watch this stuff.

And shame on the other 49 states for not being like, Holy shit, no, we should not have miners being able to watch this shit. I think we got to start paying attention to the fact that our phones are weapons. Even the TikTok fan, I don't want TikTok to go away. We run our business on TikTok, but there's no personal verification for social media. I don't know what the number is. It's like, I don't know, 30 or 40% of the internet is their bots. It's fake, which means that anyone with time or money can influence discourse. They can troll people. That means a rich person, a corporation, a country. This shit happens. We are sleep at the wheel. I think for all of the divisiveness in our country, I think we can all agree that social media has ruined our mental health. I'm not saying we should get rid of it, but we have to start waking up and saying, Hey, how as a society do we put some oversight? How do we make sure our kids aren't able to get these fucking weapons of information? Twelve-year-olds are just on it and getting fucking brain. Why are there twelve-year-old influencers telling girls to go to Sephora and get fucking makeup?

That's fucking crazy. We're just all like, No big deal. I don't know. There's just no oversight. I think it's just fucking up our society. I want to be on social media, but it's fucking crazy. I don't know. Sorry.

I think that parents are deeply concerned. I think this is a thing that many people- But we're all asleep at the wheel.

But I think they're all concerned. That's what I'm saying. I actually think this is one thing as a society we can agree on. We can agree on that we need to do something. We need to wake up and we need to make sure that it's not just like when a minor goes online and logs in and creates a TikTok or Snapchat or Instagram, and they say, Are you 14? I don't even know what the age requirement is. I think it's 13 or 14, but there's no verification there. Why? Why is that the case?

Is there not parental controls on the internet that block certain sites? Sure. I I'm not being sure there is. Phones have that. Okay, but also 12-year-old doesn't need an iPhone.

I agree. That's what's interesting.

I don't know. I'm going to scroo.

There's a lot of absent parents out there.

Okay, well, then they're not concerned about what their kid is doing. If their kid's watching porn, then they're not concerned to begin with. I'm not trying to side with that. I'm just trying to look at both angles. You're either concerned or you're not concerned. If you're going to give your kid a phone and you're not going to put certain locks or controls on it, then what happens after that is- But the problem is, though, is this when they've done studies and they go around and ask kids, meaning like, I think there are things going on.

I think this has to start at the community level. As a community, schools need to start saying no cell phones at the schools. I guess they went around and asking teenagers, What would you do if you couldn't have a phone at school or you couldn't have Instagram? The first question was, Well, do my friends have it? They're like, No, no one would have it. Then I would be okay with it. But it's more about the FOMO of it all. If everyone else is having it. Again, as parents, as a father who has a newborn child, eventually It doesn't matter how crazy or strict Nelly and I are on. If they go to school and everyone else has a phone on it, you know what I'm saying? It's so hard. So, yes, parents need to step up and do more. But I don't think as a country or as a society, we should just start at... We need to We need to start acting like these social media platforms and these phones have immense power, and there is no oversight at all. I'm not someone who's big on more oversight and more government control. I'm not that guy.

I guess my question is, here's an example. If Budweiser somehow could, through phones or through social media, give your kids unlimited beer, all I had to do is log in. Through social media, they could tap in and drink as much beer as they want. We would lose our fucking mind. But what's the difference between that and porn? Because right now, they could get unlimited fucking porn as long as they have a phone.

Okay, here's the thing. I understand what you're saying. It's the same thing. I understand what you're saying in terms of the phones, the more accessibility. But when I was 16, there was definitely... I mean, you're at your computer or whatever, but there was still access to... Kids are... And also kids do find a way. Sure.

When I was a kid, I had some parents who they Their dad's had the Playboy collection, and we would go sneak. But now the access to porn and the crazy fucking porn out there, and now our young boys, my daughter, is going to be hanging out with a bunch of young boys who grew up on fucking porn from the age of fucking 11, and they're watching all this fucking crazy incest bullshit that's out there now. It's fucking crazy. We're programming our kids to be fucking sexual deviance.

Listen, I'm hanging out with dudes my own age that watch porn, and they're fucking out of their minds.

They weren't 12 when they first started I know.

It's fucking crazy. I think the onus has to be on parents to talk to their kids. But once you start taking it to the government level of police and those things, it can be a slippery slope when we start. I hear you. That's why I said. I think it has to start at home.

But do we allow our kids to drink beer? No, but come on. But I'm just saying, if we can do that, you know what I'm saying? There's a middle ground. I hear you say, I'm not trying to... I don't want the government to tell me when I can use my phone. I am just saying right now, the difference between There's no difference between Pornhub giving all our kids access to their product and Budweiser, if there was a way through their phone to have kids have unlimited alcohol, it's the same fucking thing.

This is the first time I've ever thought about kids logging on to Pornhub in my life.

I know. That's what's crazy. We're asleep at the wheel. That's what I'm saying. We're not thinking about it. We're just out of sight, out of mind, and we're all walking around like zombies.

When I'm hanging out with my niece or something, do you know what she's doing? She's not logging. She's not getting out her iPad and going to fucking Pornhub. She's going on YouTube and watching Barbie videos. You don't do it in front of adults. I know, I know. I was like, I'll figure out a way to get around parental controls because I'm bored. Right. No, I know. But I'm just saying, I think not every kid is going to be I'm interested in that.

I know. But I'm saying as a society, in general, all I'm saying is we need to acknowledge that A, this technology has evolved too fast, and we're not keeping up with how fast it's evolved. As a society, we have to stop and say, Wait, how is this affecting all of us?

Well, my question, too, is that it's accessible, but the fact of the matter is that it's not just like PornHub or porn-specific websites that you can get this or get access to porn. I'm like, It's on Twitter, it's on Reddit. It's on. It's like, how do you regulate?

Why are kids on... Again, why are 12-year-olds on TikTok or Twitter or Snapchat or Instagram? That's fucking crazy.

Even Roblox, I have a four-year-old niece and a nine-month-old, and I'm so scared for them as things advance. People were finding a way, and mind you, they're predators to reach kids on Roblox. There was a 13-year-old girl recently that ended up trying to go meet up with a man that had been manipulating her.

They were saying the pedophiles, the sexual deviance, the fucking flashers, they're not roaming the streets anymore. They're all fucking online. We're taking her kids off the streets and off the playgrounds, and we're just protecting them, and we're giving them phones to shut them the fuck up. It's fucking crazy.

Well, what's your opinion on parents having profiles for their children? Because that's a big thing, too, is that it's saying that you're giving access to a bunch of pedophiles who are liking photos of your kids holding a hot dog.

Yeah, I know. The more we have... Now that I talk about this, that's what I'm saying. It can't all fall on parents as individuals. It's just like, as a country, we have no problem saying, Hey, listen, alcohol company, you can't sell to our miners. You know what I'm saying? I'm just trying to get a bit of- Do a miner get away with it? Do they find a way? Sure. But as a whole, school systems need to... We need to get our kids off the phone, walk into a high school these days, and you talk to It's just like when we were in high school, those five minutes in between classes was like fun and socialized and we made memories and we were talking to our friends and passing notes. Now it's just like fucking zombie land and kids are on their fucking phones walking to and from classes being brainwashed by God knows fucking what, a bunch of fucking bots from who knows what. It's fucking crazy. We just need to say, time out, wait, how is this affecting us? As parents, what can we do to keep us and our more More importantly, are kids fucking safe?

All I'm saying is this, we're just arguing about all the wrong things these days. As parents, regardless of what you believe in or what your priority is or what your God is or what your ideologies are, we can all get on board to this. I just think we need to wake up because I think, honestly, our society is like, poisoned, and I think it's only going to get worse, not better. Speaking of, this brings us in the whole Kate Middleton of it all. Sorry, not sorry.

Just going to say it. Wait. Sorry, not sorry about what?

Of course, the world feels bad about Kate Middleton's alleged diagnosis. I hate saying alleged, but this is a boy who quied Wolf situation. The royal family has done nothing but put out these crazy fucking lies. A week ago, they wanted us to believe that Kate Middleton was doing graphic fucking design classes and photoshopping photos and tweeting about this, and we're supposed to take this at face value? It's horrific. It's horrific if she has to deal with this and our heart goes out to her if she's suffering from this. But they've done nothing. The royal family has done nothing but lie to the public. They have one job. They're a public-facing family. Their lives are paid by taxpayers. Their one job is to be transparent. That's it. They can't do that. We're supposed to, what, feel bad? Now, you have every celebrity going out be like, Oh, fucking shit. That meme I put out there, only fucking shit. Of course, we were having fun with it. They were putting out ridiculous lies.

Well, the thing is, I'm sorry, if that's their one job, they should be fired because they are- I don't think the royal- I don't think the royal family... It can't be king anymore. I don't think the royal family... Well, in terms of abolishing the monarchy, I don't think they are known for their transparency. I don't think that's ever been a thing, has it?

Sure, I know. They've only been criticized, but it is, in fact, their one job. Back to when I bring up technology, now everyone like, Listen, I don't know if that video was real or fake, but again, we need to wake up because today the technology exists for that to be a deep fake. There's a bunch of videos all over the internet of Megan. It's Megan Markle giving the same speech as Kate Middleton. The technology exists for that to be fake, and people are picking apart people like, Oh, it's glitchy. I don't know if it's fake or real. I have no idea. But clearly, we have a reason to question it. What I'm really scared about technology with AI is that we're months, maybe a year, but months away from not knowing what to believe in terms of what's out there. If we can't believe anything, then what can we believe? That sounds like fucking chaos.

Do you not remember the ads or the billboards for Black Mirror the last season? They were like, You're now in it. It was just a reflection, like a mirror. That's how I feel is that we don't know what's real and what's not based off of AI technology.

It's fucking scary. We need to start saying, Wait, time out. Hold on. Before our society just fucking crumbles to fucking nothing, we need to start saying, Wait, we need to put some laws on this shit because we need to be able to trust the fucking shit that's out there.

Who's going to put the laws on? People that we can trust?

I don't have the answers.

I know. Do you know what I mean? It's crazy. I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but I'm just like, I don't think we're ever going to get there.

We have to try. We can't just say it's impossible. I don't know.

I think it's funny because they've been using deep fake technology for years, and then it didn't really become prominent until the Taylor Swift situation happened to where it was like, Oh, wait, they can do this. This is not real what you're watching. I'm like, I don't know. It freaks me out.

That's very scary.

Well, obviously, our hearts go out to Kate Middleton and her family if she is dealing with this diagnosis. It's really sad that it came to this where now, even now, everyone's question the authenticity because, again, it's a boy who cried Wolf situation. Why should anyone be like, Oh, you know what? Now she's telling the truth. Or not even she. I don't even think it's a her thing because it could be people speaking for her. If it is a deep fig, and it's sad. It's sad that we even have to question this, but that's the state of the world that we're in right now, and that's the technology that is available for people who want to mislead us to mislead us. It's fucking crazy.

Coming to a government near you.

Yeah. Anyways, protect our kids. That's really my big thing.

I just wish someone could have the solution. The only thing that I would disagree on is I think that most people collectively think this is a problem and are scared and there's a level of anxiety around it, but it's just like, what is this? It's happening so fast.

I do think it starts at the community level. I think I mean, I hope that when River is old enough to go to school, we can find and listen, not everyone is lucky enough to be able to afford anything other than publicly funded school systems. I hope the local communities are doing this at the public. I'm a public school kid. Love to public school. But as a community, we have to be like, All right, hey, as these parents of this community, what should we do? Because, yeah, if at a higher level, they're not going to do that. But elementary schools, no cell phones, middle schools, no cell phones. Put it away. You know when you would go to movie screenings and they give us that little pouch that was sealed and you put your phone in? They can do that in a school system. I think they're talking about that. Kids shows up, phone goes in. Eight hours, unplug. Socialize. Honestly, it sounds like the kids these days would welcome that, but they have a fear of being left out. It's like, Until you make every kid not stay off their phone, no kid will.

Yeah, I agree.

I don't know what it's called, but I heard some parents talking about it on a podcast. There's a dummy smartphone, so it basically has the phone capabilities, but I don't know if it blocks the internet or whatever. Obviously, that's a privilege, but they switch their kids out. When they go to school, they have a phone, but they can't go on it.

Or bring back flip phones. If you want your kid to be able to text mom and dad and have access to your kids, flip phones. Bam. Why do they need fucking smartphones for fucking miners? That's what I'm saying. We all recognize that social media is a dopamine hit. It's a fucking drug. It's the iPad kids, what you're saying. They were born with iPads, and now they have TikTok. Yeah, but they're all drugged up little zombies.

To spoil little zombie.

But I think we can all agree. We are so much more aware of our mental health, and we're so much more tapped into normalizing therapy and all these things. And yet, as a society, our mental health is worse. The suicidal rates are through the roof. Pick a demographic, they're up.

I was like, when I was a kid, I was using makeup that came out of a box, blues, pinks. It was like, it's all in one. And then now it's like watching the TikToks where it's like the 10-year-old's being like, Got to get drunk elephant, $75 moisturizer for anti-aging.

Yeah, it's fucking crazy.

Like, Honey, you won't see a wrinkle for another decade.

Also, they're using because also when the adult influencers are saying, This retinol, whatever, also kids are using things they do not need. Kids don't need a set of moisturizer.

How sad it is that 11-year-old girls are that self-aware and self-conscious about their image or body or anything. That's fucking crazy.

I know. Bring back the awkward phase. I enjoyed my awkward phase.

Anyways, all right. This has been super uplifting.

You know what?

You need to use stay-knives, apacons Learn the hard way. Humble yourselves, children. All right.

Anything else before we get into Bravo land?

No. Let's go for it.

Let's go out to Kate, if you're saying so. It sounds so great.

I think she's sick. Yeah. I think she's sick.

The CNN had a couple of doctors on that even poked holes in how she talked about her diagnosis. I don't know. It sounds interesting.

She might be, but that video of they were at the farmer's market. She was good as like, but she's saying I'm not trying to poke holes on it, but I'm just saying you guys are trying to play it off. She's fine. Her and William were seeing out. She was a foot taller than she normally is. But I don't know.

They're having fake people. It's fucking crazy.

I believe that wasn't her. Exactly. I think that That was weird.

All of a sudden, we're supposed to be like, We're at fault. We should never- I'm not going to apologize because I speculated that this woman wasn't her.

My heart goes out to her if she's sick, but that she's sick. I believe that she's sick. But I'm not going to apologize for calling out a blatant, fake woman that's not her. Sorry.

Yeah. Anyways, all right.

No, I agree with that, too. I think it's weird.

Let's Let's start off light. Let's start out with Summerhouse. That's a good warmup. But eventually, it will be a fun conversation with these ladies. Question for you, nick. Yes. Would you choose Lindsay if you had to survive in the wilderness? Probably. Lindsay is a survivor, if nothing else. She doesn't back down from a fight. She's got bravery, a little… Yeah, no. Like someone who probably want on my side if I'm surviving in the wilderness. Why do you ask? I know they went camping. Sarah thinks that Lindsay would eat her. I do. I think it came down to it. Well, if the scenario is you have no supplies, it's the two of you, and eventually someone's going to have to eat the other, then yeah, I might not pick Lindsay.

Okay.

I would also volunteer myself to go. I have no survival skills at all.

I wouldn't want to be in that. I'd be like, Sure, knock yourself the fuck out. If I'm stuck here, whatever. Over it.

Yeah, honestly, just kill me now. I'm not going to survive this anyway, so knock yourself out.

Feast away. It's like preppers I'm like, Why, though? Let's just…

What is on the other side of this? What are you trying to survive for?

To come out to nothing being there and to be starting civilization? I don't need that responsibility. No, thank you.

Why are they camping? No, thank you.

Is that because of that summer house? Let's just do weird shit.

No, I don't know. Them camping in the background. I think that's cute.

Flashing each other.

It's like giving a kid's birthday party as an adult with alcohol.

I used to camp in my backyard.

Exactly. How old were you?

Well, you know. But I would do that with a group of friends. Okay.

I would be the first one to be like, I'm going to bed.

No, I would be like, I tent. There's a goddamn bed inside. No. This is stupid. Yeah.

Yeah, it was young. But every morning I woke up and it was wet.

Yeah, you're like, You got a stuffy nose. Everything's damp.

It's like a hot, wet. I don't know.

Yuck.

I would pick Lindsay. Lindsay can get shit done. She's very go getter and all that.

Who is the guy who wants to have sex with Paige?

Jesse Solomon.

Yeah, He's gross.

Not a fan.

Well, his big thing was just like, I like to go after girls with boyfriends. It's just like, Okay, you're fucking lame.

It's giving insecurity. That's an odd play. Why?

He only gets girls because he's super tall. Put that face on a guy who's 5'10, totally different life. He has a good smile, too.

Yeah, I think he's handsome. I don't think it has anything to do with that. I just think it's a weird thing to do. You know she's in a relationship. What's the point?

Yeah, I know he sucks. Do you know him? Have you met him? No. Who's the guy who... Who's the funny- West? Yeah.

Love him. Best addition.

He seems to be like- Is he the sweating one?

Yeah, the short, little sweating one. The short, little sweating one. He's funny.

The one that's serious.

Yeah, he's going after it.

I don't know. He's got some... He's got something. He's got some sauce, some swag.

He definitely has some Riz.

Yeah, Riz.

As the kids say. As the kids say.

He's got Riz. Yeah. I get it.

What is your take on the Lindsay Karl situation?

Oh, I think it's a bummer. I was just getting caught up, and I think that it's really problematic to weaponize someone's drug problem when they are Sober. Particularly, okay, so it sounds like he's cally sober to me, right? So you're smoking weed, but no hard drugs and no alcohol. Yes. But if that's what's going on when you're on drugs, it's weed, but you're insinuating then the type of drugs that he had a problem with, which I just don't think there's any space for that. And it seems to me like she's feeling defensive about her drinking. And when he brings it up... I don't think he's trying to talk shit to her either. I think he's like, Hey, we should talk when you're sober. This isn't productive. And then to do that is like...

It's like she gets triggered by it because it's an insecurity for her.

The whole cast is pointing out this to Lindsay. Every episode I'm watching, I'm waiting for... It's like when I kept pointing out that when I first started watching Vanderpump, I was always like, before Katie and I became friends, I was like, Katie is the only normal person in this cast. I was like, riding hard for Katie. Then you get a couple of Vanderpump friends. You have to go back and watch all these other seasons. I go back and watch. I'm just waiting for crazy Katie to show up. It just doesn't ever happen. It's always this normal, level-headed, well-thought-out, for the most part.

I have my moments that are not so savry.

Everyone has their moments, but relative to your peers, Katie. Okay.

I'm not disagreeing.

She said, go on. I'm waiting for the moment where maybe there's like, Okay, where I see what Lindsay was talking about, where I'm on Katie's… I understand her plight in terms of why she came on this show and completely just ignored all of her behavior or the commentary. For all the people, and I remember when Lindsay came on this show, some of the discourse that followed, at least from her peers doing interviews, was like, Just wait, just watch the season. You'll get all your answers. They said this all with confidence. Meanwhile, we're like, Hey, Lindsay, thanks for sharing your truth here on the Vial files, and it turns out her peers… This isn't like an editing thing. There's no way all of her peers would be like, Just wait, you'll see, and it come to fruition. Quite the opposite of everyone's going to turn on Ariana, which It seems to be falling on everyone's faces this season. But yeah, they all nailed it.

How do you think she feels watching that?

I would love to know. Lindsay, if you're out there, if you're listening, come back on the show. I would love to know why. Why was this her PR strategy?

Well, she did double down the first time and was like, I just didn't use the right words when she originally accused him of being on drugs the first weekend. It's also like she's watching it and still feels, I think, justified in her reaction to it. She's saying, I felt how I felt, but I didn't use the correct wording, where my question would be, Well, then what is the correct wording when you're talking to somebody who's been sober off of harder drugs for a longer period of time? Wouldn't we just blatantly call out the weed if that was the issue versus, What are you on?

Then every time you get upset with them, that's the thing you go for to attack their history. Or let's Carl does get upset or raises his voice. We are still humans. I know it's 2024 and we're supposed to watch our words and be careful and not be toxic, but sometimes couples get upset and sometimes feelings get activated and sometimes tensions are raised and sometimes you raise your voice a little bit. That's not the end of the world. There's a difference between getting upset and fighting or coming out and screaming and saying, Fuck you, and using hurtful and abusive words or fighting with your partner. That's still allowed these days. It It seems like Carl and Lindsay sometimes fight, and every time he does, he gets fucking attacked for doing something he's just not doing. It's crazy. I just want to know what Lindsay has to say. This is a reunion I'm very excited to watch. Right.

I'm also like, you only have the weekend, so I'm also like, could we do this Monday through Thursday versus the only time that your life is captured on camera? Yeah.

They definitely seem down to have this conversation. On camera.

I mean, it's just a weird timing, I would say, where I'm just like, you literally only film three days, two days a week. So why are we having this argument?

Well, it seems like they're... I mean, obviously, they're all partying a lot on the weekends. I think that it's a known fact that when you're drunk or going out, those kinds of fights are more explosive because you're not necessarily your level-headed self. You're on your reptilian complex by the time you're wasted.

And I think that also is coming from personal experience with filming. And when you're with a partner like that and there's a lot of disagreements and discourse in your relationship, when you have cameras on you and you're around your friends, it's like, you both want to get validation from other people that you're right. So it exasperates the issues, and you tend to fight a little bit more on camera and around your friends because it's like, See? This is what she does. This is what's happening. And then The other person gets defensive, and it does like...

It makes sense because in any relationship, when you fight with your partner, there's always a little... For all the gaslighting we use, that's why I always say, for all we use that word, we're fucking crazy, because I've never been in a fight with any partner, including Natalie, who I'm very fortunate for how much we communicate and don't get along. But every once in a while, we're not on the same page. When we're not on the same page, you know what I feel? I feel fucking crazy. I feel it's like, How can you not understand what I'm saying? You know what she feels? She feels fucking crazy. She feels like, How can you not understand what I'm saying? It makes a lot of sense that when you have cameras and your friends there, it's a way to validate because you always That's why you're fighting with your partner, because you're not on the same page, because you're saying one thing that makes a ton of sense, and they're like, No. Then that seems like, Well, how can you not understand what I'm saying? Because our reptilian brains, they always say, once you're fighting for five minutes, it's not anymore.

It's your child self. Yeah.

That's why sometimes when you have a personality like Lindsay or like me, sometimes where I can say fucked up things that I don't mean. That's when you say things, you're like, I'm not excusing or trying to make excuses for anybody or myself. But that's when those things happen. Okay. That makes sense. I think it's probably there's probably other, obviously, other issues and other things are happening. Again, we don't see them seven days a week, 365.

Why isn't Paige on it more? Is it just because her boyfriend's not there as much or she's just slow playing it out? Because in some episode, she's just not there. She had like a- I don't know. She's a great character. She It was a nice little moment with Carl talking about her rent in New York.

With Craig? Craig.

Not Carl. Sorry. She pays $8,500 a month. Yeah, fuck, man.

Going up to $9.

It's New York. I feel like there's definitely places that are cheaper, but her place is really nice.

Yeah, she lives in a beautiful building.

She's in a really nice place. But damn. I mean, then I get why Craig wouldn't want to pay because it's like he has his own place. They split time, so it's like he shouldn't. And I understand her not wanting him to contribute to the rent because then it's like...

If something happens, I own one-third of your apartment. No.

But also, they've been together for a minute. I don't know that I would be doing this long distance. At some point, I'd be They're like, you're...

Or what's the end game? Because it sounds like she's not moving to Charleston. And he's not...

Didn't he say there's... He said, If it'll work out. Decent chance they don't work out or something? What was the exact one? He said...

I would never be opposed to a long long distance thing, but I have to put a cap on it.

I mean, to be sorry. You need to have any extra strategy.

Yeah, this is crazy to me. He said it's very probable.

That's what he said. It's very probable that what? It's very probable you'd be naive to think, Oh, it'll just work out. That's a little vague. Is that a double negative? It's very probable. There's a good chance it doesn't work out.

So basically, it's saying it's probable they'll break up. There's a good chance it won't work out, I think.

That's sad.

Yeah.

They do seem like they're going to go.

I feel like in that situation, though, it's one or the other has to give up something.

You know what I mean? Where it's like- Yeah, they recognize their own stubbornness. Well, they're doing what? What did she say? They see each other four days a week, maybe, and they switch going back and forth. The longest they go without is a week and a half or something like that. But I mean, Paige's whole industry or work is in New York. Her home, her family is in New York. Craig, his whole life, his business is based out of Charleston. So I'm like, even if she were to move to Charleston, for example, I don't see a world in which she's not spending multiple days in New York. So what difference does it make if she moves down there or if they just both have two places and are spending the time between it?

If this is working for them, but I feel like at some point Push comes to shop.

Well, long distance can work for a long time for some couples because it does give you that space. You can miss each other. If you can afford to see each other on a regular basis and fly, then it's like you're always missing your part. You never get sick of your partner. But either way, to Katie's point, eventually, you can't do that forever.

If there's talk that eventually one of us, then it's in your mind that this isn't a permanent situation. In that eventually. But no one's... I think they're just going to wear one. They're thinking one of them is just going to get worn down. That's not going to happen.

Craig's the one who believes in aliens and pandas aren't real people or real animals.

Yes. Tinfoil hat.

Tinnfoil hat. Wait, he doesn't think that pandas are real?

He thinks that they're people dressed in suits. In costumes.

No.

Wait, he said this? Yes. Multiple times.

This is the tinfoil thing. Tinnfoil hat. Okay, wait. I'm sorry.

How do we all feel about aliens?

Oh, they're real. They're real. They're real. I don't think that's crazy.

Mathematically speaking, yeah. Beyond, there's no way. The panda I think they walk amongst us.

To what degree? But is there intelligent life somewhere in the universe outside of here? For sure. Absolutely.

I believe that there's aliens among us. Oh, yeah.

Men in Black situation.

Yeah. I wish it was a little bit more like that, but something like that.

Is Tom Sandoval an alien?

I have to assume some of the bad dating choices I've made, like those people, let's just chalk it up to that. Maybe it was a little tiny thing driving someone around in the man suit.

If Men in Black is a thing, Tom Sandoval is an alien. He's the most alien.

He's not cool enough. No.

You think all aliens are going to be cool?

You just said intelligent life, and you want to say that Tom Sandevol?

Intelligent life means it's not like a vegetable. You're giving him too much credit. Intelligent life doesn't mean intelligent.

Aliens have seen things. Done things, can explain things.

You don't think they could be dumb aliens?

No.

Human race is the dumbest form of intelligent life there is. How do you know that? I agree. Let's just face it. Look what we're doing to our planet.

Sure.

How expansive the universe, how tiny our galaxy is within. It's just so vast. There's no way. I bet there's another civilization that has phones figured out.

Probably, but I'm saying there's also another civilization that just is getting started. Okay, fast.

Sure. I'm talking about if we're going to compare similar to us. I'm not talking about plans, whatever, but I'm talking about…

Tom Sandoval isn't smart enough. You know what I'm talking to be an alien.

You know what I'm talking about? Another type of, not human form, but in a comparable form. They're way smarter than we are.

Agreed. Well, yeah, they would have to get here. If Tom Sandoval is, in fact, an alien, that would require a level of intelligence that we're not capable of.

They got here and they flew here on a ship that we couldn't even comprehend.

But maybe.

Because we're stupid.

Maybe our ozone isn't conducive with Tom Sandoval's ozone, and that's affecting the oxygen or to his brain.

That's a reach.

He just can't help him. That's why he's just like, Hey, man, here's how you give a homeless person $100. That was fucking wild. That was disgusting.

We talked about it on Disrespectfully.

Did you? Yeah, we'll go check that out. Every Wednesday, by the way, this award-winning show, Disrespectfully, is on every Wednesday. Go check it out. Award-winning?

Yeah. I don't know about that.

I gave it the best podcast of the year award.

We're going to get all the awards. Yeah.

Give us a little time. Maybe we've never been ghosted. Maybe they've just unzipped their mansuit and they had to pop back to their planet.

Time was up.

That is still being ghosted. That's being abandoned.

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Then you finally say, You know what? I'm no longer doing that. I'm no longer giving you access to X, Y, or Z. Everyone hates a new boundary when it's being They're like, Hey, this is my new personal boundary. I don't want to do this anymore. This is a personal choice. If someone else used to have that access that they're no longer going to get, they're going to fucking hate it. You have an entire group of people who are throwing a temper tantrum because you and Ariana are just like, Hey, I'm just setting a new boundary. I'm just no longer going to fuck with these people. Instead of just being like, Yeah, that makes sense. I understand. They are just losing their fucking minds, and they're trying to poke the pettiest of holes. You and Ariana Ariana for the dumbest of shit. It's just like, when did adult people have to get… When they had any news whatsoever. When I get a job or booked for a show or something, I don't get on the phone and text in a group chat, all of my friends be like, Hey, guess what? Doing a new show with Patty Stanger.

I don't have a friend call me up and be like, Why did I have to find that out about on fucking Instagram? Meanwhile, according to Lala and Sheena, it's a capital fucking punishment that Ariana didn't tell them her life plan. Just one example of the pettiness that is your cast because you two are setting Boundaries this season. I don't know what you have to say about that.

Which part? Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Boundaries. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Typically, people who have issues with boundaries are people who have never had boundaries themselves.

Or they're just are hypocritical. Correct.

Yeah, I think It's been challenging to listen to feedback or hear people misinterpret what those boundaries mean and what they are in place because they just think that we're trying to control. When people confuse boundaries with control, that's also an issue because it's like, no, everyone's free to make decisions and move in life how they choose. But what they didn't understand is that I will also act accordingly in terms of protecting myself. These are boundaries to protect me from the crazy that surrounds me. Exactly. From the crazy that surrounds me.

Season 11 is about growing up or not growing up. You have a bunch of people who want to pretend that they're growing up and are not. What's so crazy to me is this, going back to the reunion of Season 10, you were the most quiet person. You have been Ariana's ride or die, her best friend through this all. And yet at the reunion, you said your piece, you said what needed to be said. But you had James, you had Lala, you had Sheena fucking screaming at Rachel. And what now appears to be, I don't know, performative outrage because it's just like, how do you say some of the horrific things that you said to Rachel? And then all of a sudden be like, okay, well… It was fascinating watching Vanderpump back is because throughout the years, some of your cast mates, Jack and Tom, have done some crazy fucking things. It's just like they've done some things that many people in many fan groups would be like, Okay, all right, can't be friends with you anymore. But it's like in Vanderpump world, as long as you just scream at them and yell at them, then the next day there's a scene where everyone's hanging out again.

In reality, that's fucking crazy. I feel like you two are just finally like, You know what? We did this for a while. In the past, we could scream and get over it, but now it's just like, No, I'm actually just like, you guys are choosing to make different life choices and grow up, and they're not.

In the past, that was what we would do. And somehow we're like, Yeah, we always got through it. We always would forgive each other. And that's just how things were. And it's like, Yeah, but that doesn't really work for me anymore. That's really not the friendships I want. That's not how I want to be in life. What worked when I was 26 does not work for me at 38. And the fact that you all are still thinking that's okay, knock yourselves out. But I just can't anymore. I'm sorry.

I'm also not sure why it's such a hard concept to grasp because I'm very much this If I do not fuck with someone, I'm never going to tell anyone, Don't be friends with them, but you will not see me as much. If you're spending time with them, that's totally fine. Knock yourself out, you do that. But I'm going to remove myself from the situation. That's a boundary. That's how you protect your peace. So I don't know why everyone is so up in arms and then especially accusing Ariana of telling people not to be friends. She's not saying that, but she's like, Yeah, then I will not be spending time with you.

Because this is what it is. She's like, I don't want him to have access to my life. I don't want to know. I don't want to know what he's doing. I don't want to know what I'm doing. What happens the minute Sheena goes to Tom Sandoval after she saw Ariana, Oh, we heard about your sexy single party. She basically just goes and repeats what Ariana just told her to Tom Sandoval. That's exactly what Ariana is talking about, what she doesn't fucking want. The access, the- Rumor mills, the gossip. The meshing of worlds and lives. Ariana wants it to be completely entirely separate. She doesn't want Sheena going, Well, I just feel like I just talked to Ariana, and This is how she feels. She would really like an apology. That's what she doesn't fucking want. That's what she's saying. If you want to be his friend, go ahead. Keep that between yourselves. Don't involve me in it. That's where I'll remove myself. That's what she's talking about. Because Sheena can't figure that one out, and other people can't figure that one out, that's why I'm essentially like, She's probably not going to be your friend.

Well, what's that? I'm just jumping right to the point.

I said last week that I thought that Sheena should pick Tom because I think that Ariana and you have outgrown Sheena and are maturing in a way that Sheena is just not. I think that for all the best friend conversations between Ariana and Sheena, that it honestly seems like Sheena and Tom Sandoval have way more in common. Their values are way more in line. To me, from outsider, looking in, because there's probably a lot about those friendships, I don't know. It just seems like it, honestly, as sad as that might be for Sheena and Ariana, it's just to me, it makes more It makes sense that Tom and Sheena will be the ones who will still be friends when it's all said and done. What do you have to say to that?

I don't necessarily disagree. I think she'll still try to show up for Ariana I don't see Ariana as being so ruthless to be like…

Yeah, I'm not speaking what Ariana would do, but just the principle that honestly, when it comes down to it, it just seems like they have more in common, and they have more similar interest and similar values, and they prioritize the same things where you and Ariana this season are making the tough choice of suggesting that maybe you've outgrown the show.

I don't know.

I don't know either. But I find it to be very interesting as a viewer to watch because finally, it's not fun to watch you guys all like, I don't know, Lisa Vanderpump's Bart, Bartending. It's fun to see some people in your group grow up and some people not because that's life. That happens in every friend group out there is that some people just want to not let go of the old days. They want to bring it back. The group, we got to save the group. Some people are like, That's fucking weird, dude. We used to do that eight years ago.

Yeah. When I'll hear comments or people talking, I don't know, about the episodes and people are like, Well, everyone has cheated, or back in the season one or two, I'm just like, Why are we talking about that long ago? I get it. If you want to make the comparisons, but it just doesn't apply in life today. Our lives are a lot broader than that. I get you could do that all day, but that's just not where many of us, some of us are at anymore.

I also don't think there's an apple to apple comparison. That's what always bothers me about that. It's like, yeah, everyone's done some shady shit. But again, usually when you're much younger, and this was a different thing. So it's just we don't need to be comparing it.

Or being held to a standard that I didn't hold at 20 that I now hold in my 30 is that it's like, okay, I've grown and learned why are you still repeating the same mistakes for the last decade?

Yeah. Do you think you're a miserable person?

No, I was at the time. I'm not miserable, but I was not happy. I was not somebody that...

Even if you were, was that a crime? No. What is Lala's point?

That always gets me. I think that's such a weird trope for you. Yeah, just like you said, has everyone not had times in their life when you were not your best self and possibly be considered toxic or miserable? Yeah, but that's not fundamentally who you are at all.

Also, in saying having a boundary and being able to force it and being forced to be one of the few adults in a friend group doesn't mean you're miserable. It just means you are willing to make the fucking tough choices that other people aren't. No fun Katie doesn't mean she's miserable, of course. I'm not saying you're no fun. You're plenty of fun. You had six margaritas yesterday.

I'm saying you're the happiest I've ever seen you.

You went on a friend date. That's fucking vulnerable. You are making tough choices. No, seriously, you're making real-life tough choices that aren't easy to do because it's hard to grow up and it's hard to mature. It's hard to outgrow your friends. It's hard to look at your friend and say, We don't have the same values anymore. We've outgrown each other. Then to go on a fucking date with a friend. No, but we need to do more of that. We have to acknowledge that.

Truthfully, I love my life and I've been really happy for, I don't know, the last year. I I've had some stressful shit going on, obviously. But I think this new chapter in life and this transition that I made to really design my life and invite new people into my life and embrace friendships that I've been really excited and happy to have and feel like I'm really grateful for in my life. I don't know. Just, again, through my healing journey, I've come to an agreement with myself with the standard of people I want to have in my life. If this character doesn't meet the criteria, I'm just going to not have that. Yeah, I have build up boundaries.

Is Lala projecting, perhaps?

I don't know what's happening there. To be honest, it feels like it's a one-sided situation, and Like me and Sheena. I don't know. Lala and I were really fine. Sheena and I. I was at her house a couple of weeks ago, back-to-back days for her gender reveal. Where is this coming from? For Ocean's birthday. Where is this coming from? I don't know. I mean, the reunion was tough day, and there was some shit that was brought up. But I don't know. Because it started, I guess, because I don't know if it was after the reunion or before, but she was talking on her podcast about how we had a falling out going into the season. I don't know if that's retroactively. She's bringing that up. But we had a falling out seven months before the season started, and I thought that was all resolved and we were good on that.

What was that falling out about? Because honestly, this week's episode, you guys had to sit down and you were like, I just want to squash this shit. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I didn't even know what you guys were squashing.

We were squashing what happened at Ali's house.

Can I ask you about that, though? Was that tension building up or is that a normal aspect of your relationship?

Well, I mean, that's what we Over the summertime, we were trying to figure out why we were triggered by each other, why we were easily triggered, and why we were fighting. She was like, I feel like our friendship hasn't been the same since we had that falling out. And I'm like, well, for me, I was just like, we both were like, Well, we haven't been spending as much time together. You've been busy with Ariana in the shop. And I was like, Yeah, you and Sheena have been really close, and you buy your house in Palm Springs. That's where you spent all of your free time, which is fine. It wasn't not the same in a bad way, but we just hadn't been prioritizing our friendship. It didn't seem to me that there was any residual resentment from the falling out. I thought we addressed everything that had happened, but it was just mainly about the fact that we just hadn't prioritized the friendship. So when I was asked Funwatch It Happens Live about the falling out, I was like, Well, I don't feel like we had one going into filming. We had one a while back.

I was just confused about the wording of it all. That makes sense. And she did not like that.

Yeah, because she is leaning in to this alleged conflict between you two and her and Ariana, and she's going on these talk shows, and she's teasing the fact that her and Ariana are no longer friends. Do you think it has more to do with the fact that she bought a new house, and she just wanted to make sure that she's keeping the money in? I don't know. She's got a family to feed.

I'm scared to say I don't know because that's what started this whole thing. But I don't know. I don't know what this is about. I don't know why she had to post that thing on Instagram and bring my mom into it all. Yeah, that was weird. That was really fucking hurtful to my mom. Don't do that. Just don't do that.

Also, yeah, if you want to talk shit, talk your shit. Why is she bringing it up? I don't know. I wasn't going to post this because I love her mom.

Sorry. I don't know. It was weird. I'm just weird. I don't really have... I don't know what to say. I don't have much to say because I don't know what is going on.

To me, it's what it seems like is what's going on is you and Ariana just are generally indifferent about hanging out with the group.

What group? They don't even fucking hang out.

I don't know.

To be fair, I didn't see anybody that I recognized besides Schwartz at the sexy singles pool party. Yeah.

I don't know. But it seems like the bond of this, I don't know, the ensemble cast is Lala recently. It's like they're mad at you two for being like, It's a new show. I don't really want to do this. It seems like they're trying to poke little holes and make mountains out of mole hills, so to speak.

I went into this season the same way I go into every season being like, I'm just going to tell my truth. Be authentic. Our group is fractured. We're not the same as what we used to be, and I'm I'm not going to go in and pretend that I... I'm not going to pretend with people.

Ariana or you, to my knowledge, have yet to lose their shit and been like, Why are you hanging out with so and so? Why are you doing... You haven't questioned anyone doing anything?

I mean, I do, but only because when I feel like people have very shifting opinions, I think they should have a little conviction about it. And beyond this, I mean, I know we're filming a show, but it's also Like, but how? Like, I got to like, I don't do things that I cannot stand behind. So it's like, besides just like, when we go to cold time, it's like, What else? I don't do things just because I'm told to do them.

Well, from watching the show, too, I have to say mad respect because I'm like, the scene where you're sitting with the girls at lunch and you confront Sheena with the, I don't understand why you can't let this go, with wanting to be friends with Tom Sandoval. I I think it's respectable to where it's like, Listen, you can feel how you want to feel, but I just don't understand it. And for some reason, I think people want to paint that as, Oh, you're not happy for it. You won't allow people to do what they want to do. But at the end of the day, you're just like, Hey, this person did something fucking terrible, and you know it, has done it to you. Why are we now trying- To agree to disagree. Yeah. Why do you think that they are trying so hard to involve Sandoval when they were the ones that were on a campaign against him?

I don't know. I don't know. We have It's a moment of outreach. Well, yeah, because I'm not... It's fine if you're like, You know what? I'm tired. I just want to put my pitchfork down. If that's what you want to do, then fine. But there's also not Yeah, there's consequences or there's going to be another side on that, too, that you need to prepare for, just so you know. How strongly do you feel about this? And if your only argument is that, well, 12 years ago at the upfronts, and you're hanging on to that. When there's been more really despicable things that he's done. It's like, Yeah, but 12 years ago when no one was my friend. Well, yeah, but Sheena, in the interim of that, we became really good friends. Yeah, we weren't always really good friends. But why are you acting like that was more recent than it was? But we I don't know. Since then, other people showed up for you. I showed up for you for a period of time. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I'm a little crazy. On the heels of Sheena's.

Well, I could appreciate that. I'd be frustrated for you.

I'm not leaving anything out.

No, I I'm not saying anything because I just agree with what you're saying. Also, it's just for me, it's a stand-on business thing. If you want to be friends with this person, it feels like there's some edging happening or laying the foundation of saying, I'm going to keep this person in my life, and that's totally fine if that's what you want to do. But then, like you said, not necessarily consequences, but things are going to shift, and that's fine for that to happen, but be prepared for it.

After Sheena reminded us that she had an orgy with John Mair, that video popped up from 2009. Before, she was even on VannerPump, and you said this video comes up every couple of years.

I feel like I've definitely seen this video a few times.

It is the most outrageous interview I have ever seen. Because I know in the interview, she's addressing criticism that she called Hollywood life on herself. How did this story come up? Then she proceeds to give an eight-minute interview of her hanging out with John Mare, and she is loving every minute of it. She's like, Well, I can't really talk about it, but you're asking me questions. A hundred % chance John Mare has not spoken to her since that interview.

Wait, the orgy thing, was that on a confessional from this season?

Yeah, last week, she was like, My Body is a Wonderland.

Yeah, we were playing Never Have I Ever, and it was like, had a threesome. I think Brock admitted, whether you drink or something, I don't know. Is that how it works? You have, you drink. If you haven't, you don't. They're like, Oh, what? Sheena also did. They're like, What? She's like, Well, it was more of an orangey situation. Then in her interview or professional, they were like, So what was that about?

She first dropped A-list celebrity.

Yeah.

That was really important.

Well, why I asked is because I wonder how she just like Lindsay earlier, I wonder how she feels watching that back.

I don't know. I loved it, though. It was awesome. It's eight minutes of just Sheena pretending to not want to answer this reporter's questions and definitely not going anywhere. Then just waiting for... She's like, Did you guys have sex? Well, I can't answer that one. She would answer every other question, but couldn't answer that because it's personal, which means she's like, Yes, we've talked. John I saw that video, I was probably like, Nope. There's no way he hung out with her after that. How could you feel safe? Anyone. If you are dating someone and the next thing you know, they're giving an exclusive interview.

As not your girlfriend?

As not your girlfriend, but someone who thinks you're funny and has a good personality. Just throwing out… When you have to say there was no cheating, when you even have to bring that up. I don't know. Immediately, you're like, Wait, But when timeline, it's just like the whole thing is such a mess. Can you imagine John waking up that day?

I don't think he probably even saw.

What outlet? You don't think he saw that? No, I don't think so. Oh, boy, he saw that. Every one of his buddies, everyone was sending it to him. I mean, that reporter, she was seasoned. She knew what she was... She crushed it with her questions.

I saw somewhere, though, that he was asked about her and he just said no comment. Yeah.

Crushing. It was dating.

It Regret. Immediately regret.

I think the whole discourse is funny because on tomorrow's episode, we talked about this. Sheena recently talked about me in a Juicy Scoop interview, and it was a quick passing comment. Sheena talked about you. Yeah, it really pissed me off. What she What did she say? I'm not happy about it. She just brought something up from the past that was unnecessary, in my opinion. At the time, the way that she navigated it, I just didn't appreciate. She'll so openly talk about orgies and threesums and whatever. Yeah, we talk about that tomorrow.

I know, right? Go and check that out. I don't even know.

I don't even know.

Opinions on Tom Sandoval's pool party telling new girls that he chops up chips and feeds it to his ex. Was he?

Did you watch it?

No. What the fuck? When I was watching it with Nelly- Did you watch Manna?

No, I'm behind.

Come on, Manna. When Nelly and I were watching it, Nelly was like, he's trolling them. I was like, I don't know. That's Tom.

For sure. He was going down, he was like, Yeah, my roommate. You know who my roommate is? Yeah, my ex-girlfriend. It was a long relationship, just 10 years. And everyone's like, Okay.

Wait, give me context about the chips.

What did she-Sorry, I missed that. And then he's like, Yeah, She lives upstairs, but you know. What is it? I keep her locked up in there. I keep her locked up in the room upstairs. But don't worry, I crush up chips and I slide them under the door.

For her to eat. Yeah. It was very like domer vibes where I was just like, why is this the route you're going?

Does Tom know he comes across a douchebag there? I mean, is he doing it on purpose? Is it like-Zero game?

When he's like, So you guys ever been to Burning Man?

At 40 years old, come on now.

Well, that's when Now, he was trying to give him the best of his doubt, being like, he's trolling them. He's deliberately trying to sound like a douchebag.

Oh, I don't know.

I was like, I don't know.

I think that's Tom. No. Even having not seen that directly, anytime he says something shocking, the unhoused people thing, he thinks he's being authentic.

Have you ever seen him, the video of him at Schwartz and Sandy's where he's dancing? And these girls are just standing there looking at him and he's like, Don't My threshold for second-hand embarrassing is so difficult.

And yeah, he's basically about to do the worm and everyone in it's not super packed and there's not a lot of people dancing.

That's why when I say to people, and again, this is not me defending Tom Sandoval, but when people are just like, he's some master It's your manipulator. It's just like, he's Tom Sandoval.

I think he's very manipulative also.

Sure, I don't think he's manipulative, but I don't think he is capable of...

I don't think he's self-deprecating. That's the thing. I don't think he's like, Oh, I'm going to be cringy on purpose.

No, no, no. But I also just don't think She's that sophisticated. Speaking of, Rachel/Requel, what's your take on her latest... I'm officially over her in her just desperation of trying to continue to be the victim in a situation that she's not. But recently, she called out Logan for walking in on Rachel and Tom. When we had Brad on way back when, off the show, Brad told us a similar story, and he didn't want to Logan under the bus. Whatever you think about that relationship or the friendship between Logan and Ariana, I am curious what you have to say about this. But I will just say, Rachel herself, when she's talking about this, she still, when she says, doesn't know for certainty that Ariana knows. She is saying, Well, they're best friends, so she must know. I don't know. Maybe she does. It's all speculation. Rachel is admitting that she has no idea what information was and yet she is now claiming in the fucking court of law that Ariana somehow knew when all she is speaking on is assumptions and conjecture and bullshit.

She's not sure that any of these people knew anything. She's just assuming, Well, they had to have known. They had to have known. No, they were so shady and denied and lied to everybody. They were not as open and whatever as obvious as they think they were.

Even if you do, that's like walking... It's like if Kanye and his... Is it his wife or his girlfriend or his- Captain.

His captive? His captive. Whatever.

Why didn't she bring up Ali in that? Ali sauce at the Abbey because you guys denied it. Hardcore to everybody.

Just because people are acting weird or dressing funny or doing weird shit together, people- She also told the story wrong about Logan.

I'm about to get activated. First of all, we're defending Logan 100%. That is not how it happened. We discussed this in-depth on the episode tomorrow, so I'll leave it up to that. All I have to say is her version of how it happened is not what happened. At the time, he had no reason to believe something so evil could be going on. He never said anything about that to me. He never said anything about that to Ariana at the time because it didn't even faz him, because it didn't seem like what she's described happening happened. So I think that she's taking just like we caught her and Joe and Tom and Tom at the Abbey. We talked about this, too, in September, October. Another bar, yeah. Yeah. At another bar at another time. And at the time, because she was making out with shorts and shit, I thought it was that. I thought it was a shorts thing. But then in hindsight, we were like, Oh. So they, first of all, weren't as messy as they alluded to. But second of all, then if anything came up, they'd be like, What are you guys? That would never happen.

Are you kidding me? Blah, blah, blah. Because they thought their plan was going to come to fruition, which was ride it out, Tom and Ariana break up, and then eventually they date. So no, that doesn't work.

It's giving us, Sandoval's, If only she got in the car and followed me, she would know.

All you had to do is follow me.

Come again? Yeah. Who is telling Rachel what to say? It's just so bizarre.

No one. She's coming up with this in her own- Delusion? Her own reptilian brain. I don't know. I'm like, at this point, she is 100% allowed to talk about her story, but the way that she paints things is just not how it actually happened. So that's where I have a problem with it.

No, she just keeps looking like she's trying desperately to be a victim in a situation where she's not.

If she wants it to die, how long are you going to go back and talk about these different things? Each thing serves at least from what I've seen on TikTok and whatnot, to paint her in a better light and take some of the accountability away.

It's just like- I think it's just- Let's just move on. I think I heart's making her. I don't know. I've never met Rachel. She doesn't strike me as someone who- Would you say that she's a sacrificial lamb?

Yeah. Well, that's interesting. That's weird.

No, I think- She said that she was Bravo sacrificial lamb.

No, you have way more. She has way more agency being on that show.

She's an adult woman. She's an adult. The grooming thing made me so mad. You were a 28, 29-year-old woman. You knew what you were doing. He didn't groom you.

Also, when she's like, You know what? After he mentioned that, or Lala mentioned that, like, Baby, I was. It's just like everything that Rachel is coming up with, it's always like she just hears out there the zeitgeist on the internet. She's like, You know what? Maybe someone... Millions of people are fans of the whole Skandival and Vannerpump world. There's a million different opinions, and Rachel is cherry-picking the opinions that defend her and goes, Yeah, you know what? Maybe I was.

I need someone to explain to her what figure of speech is and quick because the way she wants... She's like, I'm inciting violence because I'll be like, I'll light you on fire. That was wild. She's like, It's really messed up because there's people out there that'll actually do that. Katie can't be going around saying that.

What did she say? She said she would get fired. You would get fired if you had a normal day job saying what you said.

A normal day job. If I said that I would like this person on fire, I would be fired. It's insane that I'm out here inciting violence because- Because someone thinks you're going to actually...

It's not a figure of speech anymore.

Also, you don't have a normal day job. It isn't a normal scenario.

I know, but also, I don't mean actually with real fire, do that. I'm not suggesting someone do that.

Ma'am. Do you think Rachel is listening to this? Which I've heard she does. Good.

It's time to learn what figure stage means. It doesn't mean like- Literal? Literal. She was like, yeah, can't you? She taught me boundaries.

Because a lot of people say literally when they don't mean literally.

Girl, welcome to Earth.

I'm also like, if you engage in a situation where you have to keep things secret. You see his partner and feel like you need to withhold your relationship. You know you're doing something wrong in the process. It's interesting to me that now that we're looking at it in hindsight, it's I was groomed, I was this. But you You went through a situation for seven months where you couldn't talk to your friends, couldn't talk to the people around you about your relationship. You're consciously making the choice to sneak around. So where's the accountability?

Well, grooming implies a power imbalance. We always talk about this. It's like Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky. She was a 22-year-old girl. He was a President of the United States. A grown-ass, 50-year-old man that was a President of the United States. They are both on the same show. They were friends. They were in the same friend group. Where was that? You knew what you were doing, and you were good with it, and you wanted. You've openly admitted you were hoping they would break up and you'd end up together. So, yeah, I understand. In hindsight, looking back, you're being like, Wow, I wasn't in love. I was in a really dark place. And so I got excited about this person, and we were both mirroring the version of ourselves you wanted to see on each other, and it felt good, and was exciting. That's all fine. But you were not taken advantage of. Couldn't agree more. So please sit down.

Have many. Why does Andy Cohen think Brock is the voice of reason in the remaining episodes? Did he say Brock? He said, Brock and Lala.

I don't know.

He said, Ellie and Brock were surprising the voice of reason. Are we going to see something that I'm not going to?

I don't know.

Okay. He did say a lot of good things about the remaining episodes.

Yeah, no, it definitely gets a little more exciting, but I don't know. Everyone watches it through a different lens. So I guess that's his take on it.

The thing about Sheena, it's just like, well, obviously, I I don't know if you guys… We had Charlie on the show. She called Brock a payroll husband. Sheena's hated us ever since. Then it's not my fault that Sheena is embarrassing herself this season. I don't know what to make of her actions. When she says this shit about the orgies, the whole dancing with the stars scene, we haven't even got into that.

I do get down on Sheena for hanging out with Tom and then getting upset that people get upset about it. But watching her this season and being very open about her relationship with Brock has been very… I've not enjoyed watching it, but it's like she has, in the past, always tried to paint a pretty picture and tried to make things look nice. She's been very image-conscious and when it comes to that, but watching her and Brock work through things, it's like, Okay, that's very vulnerable in real of you. I haven't seen that from her.

I wish she would focus more on that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, she spread a little thin. But yeah, I don't know. I think she was definitely going through a lot this year.

I don't understand the whole even dancing with the stars. You can't have it both ways. You either can support your friend or you can complain that you're not on it. You can't complain that you're not on it. Talk about all the reasons why you have the right to be a little upset and then be like, But I'm happy for you. It's never going to land the way you want it to land. She is allowed to want to go on dancing with the stars, but Ariana should not have to defend herself. When that whole scene where Sheena comes over, then she's like, Yeah, so I heard that you were upset or whatever. Then Sheena gets mad at Lisa Vanderpump for allegedly gossiping about her. Then Sheena basically confirms everything that Lisa allegedly said, which would be, Well, yeah, I guess I was a little upset that you didn't tell me a certain way. Again, why does Ariana have to tell fucking anyone about this announcement? Ariana is right. I know she's publicly come out and said, Listen, until this is done, done, you don't fucking sit there and talk about it.

There's an NDA as well.

Yeah, she was- I don't even want to… You can ruin your chances of getting cast.

Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, I think it was more about that. You have to make sure it's a done deal. Even if you're good friends with someone, yeah, she was very careful about telling anyone. I don't think it speaks to necessarily your friendship or where you're at or how close you are. I think making it about that is unnecessary. It's making it about you. You're really good friends, but it's okay for her to be until it's publicly announced and whether it was Dancy with the Stars or her being on Broadway, not wanting to discuss it until it's out.

I know you can't talk about what we haven't seen this season, but to me, it has seemed like an attempt. Before the season started, there was that commentary about Ariana potentially be painting as a villain, so much so that even Ariana commoded somewhere. Even I wouldn't be surprised because it's like everyone knows how this shit works. It's like once you're up, then you're down, and the whole thing. Obviously, we had the Tom's on this show. Sandoval, more than anything, if nothing else, proved that he, at the end of the day, hasn't really done any work, and he hasn't really… Still, to this day, he doesn't seem to understand why people see him for what he is. And yet this season seems to be an attempt, hard as they might try, to paint Ariana in a certain type of light. So far, it seems like they're failing miserably. Is that more of the same for the rest of the season? Because it does seem like even publicly, Lala is trying to separate herself from Ariana.

What do you mean when you say they? The people on the show with that? Or who? Yeah, your cast mates. God, I don't No. I mean, I was trying to figure out what was going on in front of me the entire time. I was like, How are we feeling about this? It was confusing because, again, just like a few months prior, people had very strong opinions that were very different than what they were saying. And you know what? Fine. Change your mind anytime you want. It's your life. It's your choice. It's your whatever. For me, personally, I usually don't change my mind about a person or things until I see new information or modified behavior, which there wasn't. I was confused. I think with Ariana, it was just because I think they were like, Well, if we're going to have to all film together, we got to do the show. I think that was the thing that was happening. I think there was just frustrations that were happening. I think it was just coming from a frustrated place, I guess. I don't know.

Frustrated that they didn't think Aria was playing ball, and it's just like, Hey, we all have to play ball.

Kind of, but it's just like, she doesn't have to. Again, we all have the agency. At the end of the day, I think that's the reality. That is the reality of what is happening. I mean, it's like she still shows up to film it. We saw in the last episode, she went to the Balmain. He was there. I think not being forced to have a conversation on camera that just doesn't feel like authentic or real. I don't know.

Also, When people use their own life situation and they use themselves as an example. Who was it? Was it Lala? Was it Sheena? Was it Lala? I'm not trying to make it about me when I bring up my past. No one does. When they say, Yeah, me too. Here's a situation. Even when you are trying to empathize, if you're going to use yourself as an example, you risk making it about you. That sometimes can land and sometimes it doesn't. But not every situation is the same. When you break up with someone and you don't have kids with them and you're not married, it's a lot easier to separate yourself and say, I don't want to fuck with this person. Nelly and I, we have a kid together. No matter what happens, we'll be in each other's lives for the next 18 years, hopefully much longer, and we love each other and we're very happy to have the relationship we have. But that's our reality. Lala has a kid with Randall, and that's her reality. Ariana doesn't have a kid with Tom. Other than now, and she's at a new house, and other than the whole weird living situation for a while, Ariana didn't have to make certain concessions that Lala Probably had to because she had a kid with Randall.

That's not the same situation. If Lala had to get over something, fine. But doesn't mean Ariana has to.

But also it took time, though, still. Ariana was still fresh out of it. I think just because she was having these opportunities and she met a really great guy, that suddenly she should be further along in the process. But it doesn't matter. Everyone deals with things in their own time and in their own way.

That's what I was going to say. But I'm just saying, even if she doesn't want to, even if she never gets to the point where she's like, Yeah, yeah. Indifferent.

Correct. But that's what I was going to say is people obviously are watching the show and they're not putting it, I think, into their mind frame that that was three months after all of that had happened. It was extremely fresh. You're right, No matter what the timeline, she doesn't have to. But I mean, imagine having to deal with that. It's not like they have no interaction at all ever. They certainly do. I'd say it's pretty raw and authentic. But yeah, it's just like she doesn't owe him I don't know.

Do you want to talk about Joe? Or do you want to talk about the sandwich shop?

My question about Joe was that Joe called you a jealous accent and implied that you were blocking her from becoming friends with people or in the group.

I know Kristen introduced her to the group, but I just wanted to ask you, can you break down? Was Joe actually around you before you and Schwartz split? Were you guys friends?

I mean, friends adjacent. No, the only time she was around, like Kristen, if Kristen was having a thing at her house, Joe would be there. Right. So that's when we would see her. So again, Tom and her weren't... I don't know how to explain this.

You did say that she was DMing you asking about haircuts.

That was weird. She would message me. She'd be like, I want to get more guy haircuts in my butt, which I'm like, I've only seen you cut guy's hair. As far as I'm concerned. But she kept texting me to ask Tom if you a haircut. I'm like, Why don't you just send Tom a DM? Why are you going through me? She was like, I just want to be respectful. I don't want to step on your toes. Then she moved in with them. Then she starts talking. Then she sends me that message the day we announced our divorce. Then just months later, it's Then she has no problem hitting him up and then asking him to stay with him.

It seems pretty bold. At first on the show, I did feel a little bad for Joe because she was pointing out your comment. But now that you added context to it in the after-show, Yeah.

Well, because my comment was pretty harsh. Yeah, harsh. But I get it. But I mean, I'm even watching the season that I feel a little bad for Joe because Tom is not being a very good guy, which is like- When Ali was reading her horoscope and it's just like... A friend vibe. She's like,.

She's like, but sometimes-I mean, I love Ali.

Ali jumping in, but sometimes, maybe.

You didn't need to read someone's horoscope to realize that you're friends.

I mean, the thing that she posted, the really long caption about him and the video compilation of their friendship, which it doesn't seem like he even acknowledged. Yeah, it's clear that the comments she was liking on that of like, You guys should be together, and whatever. I think it's just clear that they wanted different things that weren't aligned on what was going on.

It seems like from a guy's point of view, that Tom had sex with Joe out of convenience and selfishness.

Yeah.

Where he was bored enough to say yes to her advances, not thinking about how she might feel afterwards. Now in a classic Tom Swartch way, is trying to just, Everything's cool, everything's fine. Everything's cool, everything's fine. Everything's cool, everything's fine. It's not usually that easy as adults when they start.

Yeah, it's two things. It's Tom, them having whatever relations that they had and everything. From what people that were around them and what they know is like, Yeah, no. He was always very upfront. I just, I don't want to be friends. I don't want a relationship. I don't want a relationship. I don't want a relationship. So it was not like he was not being honest about that, but he would also say things to her like, What we have is magic. This is so special. It was a woven romance. All like that. So it's like, you're saying two different things, and your actions are also saying otherwise because you would ask her to hang out. You obviously were intimate together. So while it's like, that's on him, but it's also on her because as women, we also have to believe dude when he's simply saying, I don't want a commitment. I don't want a relationship. And also guys will just get what they can.

Yeah. It's like the breadcrumbling of it all and letting her believe it was more than it was. I don't think Tom is a malicious or evil person at all. But I think that you also, as a woman, have to come to the table and be like, Okay, I'm accepting this. And for me, it seems more like she was hoping that it would develop into more. And she's like, Okay, if I keep it cool right now, and we're friends, but we're sleeping together, and he tells me all these nice things in private, it'll become more, and it just didn't.

Yeah, that classic case of, I hope eventually he sees me the way I want him to see me. That just never happens.

Which is such a bad feeling. Yeah, I feel for her on that.

Yeah.

My final question, because we talked about this on the app when we were doing Vannerpump Recap. Was Tom Schwartz actually pre-med, or did he take a couple of science classes that were going towards that direction?

His major is classified as a pre-med Okay. Yeah. Don't ask me what it is. But it's what people, I think, take if they want to be like a- You do a couple of science classes. Yeah, I don't know what it's called. It's technically in a pre-med. If you wanted to later on go to a medical school. But I think it's like sports medicine thing. Copy that. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. But it goes into that category. I don't remember what it was, but technically. Kinesiology? Something like that. Yeah, where it's like body. But I don't think it's… We're not talking like heart doctor shit, but in the category of…

I know You're definitely tired about answering these questions, but it sounds like you guys got your liquor license.

We've had our liquor license for some time. That was the easiest part of it, surprisingly.

A lot of people made a big deal about the before and after photos, about the shop, and I suspected that you guys are filming a TV show. You had to film some scenes there, and you probably weren't able to keep that shit up while all this was- We had to take the whole front of the building had to change.

We have to get a whole new awning done. We also have to get permits for There's a lot of sign offs that have to be done before we can put any of that shit back up.

I'm just saying the people who want to see Ariana fall are just trying to use a sandwich shop against you guys.

I am so... And then people are like, Well, you could just give some updates. I have. You don't want to listen. I know it's boring. It is boring. It's government, this and the government or local government stuff. But I have given the updates. It's not interesting, I guess, to you all, and you don't want to believe it. So I don't know I have to say, and I don't mean to be upset and angry, but I'm frustrated. Not with everyone, but just with how it's all- It's a grind. It's a grind. It's stressful. But those are the updates. But we're opening soon. All right.

The Valley. We loved it.

Surprisingly, yeah.

I love it.

It's what Vanerpump almost should have become on its own.

Well, that's what we were always hoping to transition into in life. Like a dollwood. Yeah.

But now, before When this season even started, we have two of the pre-existing couples of episode one, one separated, Jacks and Brittany. Brittany wants to talk about it with anyone who asks. Jacks keeps pretending it's some private information, which is hilarious. Then you have the other couple. What's the other? Who are the cast people?

Jessie and Michelle.

Jessie and Michelle, they've already filed for divorce.

All I know is that they're in that separation.

All I know is they were the one couple that wanted to talk shit about the valley. It is fun to watch the valley because, well, Sierra is in the valley. Nelly and I are in the valley. You're in the valley. We're all in the valley. We're all in the valley. It's like, Okay, a little TV show about my neighborhood. Okay. It's fun.

It is weird seeing all the restaurants and places and being like, Wait.

Hey.

It's great. What a way to launch your single, like new coming out party single career? Because that's what these couples, they announced their divorce prior to episode one. Now what we're watching is like...

I do have to wonder, I'm like, so now what is it about? We're supposed to be about like, we're watching the follow. But moving forward, what becomes of this show because it's about the whole intro is like kids and couples, and now it's like, well, okay. So now it's Van der Pomp rules where we're at. Just mess.

I mean, what did they expect from Jacks? Chaos. By the way, he talks shit about you, too. I fucking hate Jacks Taylor is a terrible human being.

I haven't seen him. You'll see coming up on them. Did you get to film with him? Yeah. But that was the first time I'd seen him in a literal year. So I'm like, your disdain for me is creepy. Like the stuff with Kristen anyway.

Speaking of Kristen, she's trying for a baby with her partner that lives in Colorado full-time?

That was fucking wild. Jacks Taylor, season one, not having been on TV, and I don't know how long, and he's talking about his growth and his change, and he's no longer the person. We got to learn who he was in Van der Pump. Somehow, while Skandival was going on. Jack Taylor wanted us to believe that he was somehow some reformed piece of shit. Family man. And he comes on episode one to tell Kristen that she's not ready to have kids. Are you fucking kidding me? In what world is it your place to walk through whether Kristen Doty is ready to have a child.

Genuinely.

He acts all precious about the nuclear family now, too, which is super weird. I thought his comments to Luke were so out of pocket and being like, Well, it's out of wedlock, which also is at 1950. Who the fuck says wedlock? But it's also not your business. A lot of people choose not to get married and have partnerships and have kids. It's not uncommon these days. Why does that matter?

He contradicts everything he says. The same way it's like, I was like, Calm down. I'd stay at home. He makes up shit as he goes. He gets in the car and he's like, I want to stay all night drinking shots with shorts.

It's like, So which one is it, dude? There's that one scene someone's shot and Jacks goes, Yes. It was like, Holy shit. Calm down.

Jesus Christ. It's not like in high school.

Well, no, he said he's very much on the family man, doesn't go out, do all of that. Then the second that he announced the separation or the separation was announced, it's like, Club, another club, out. Kids with Brittany going to dinner, and he's in Montreal partying. It's like, What is it, Sir Jacks?

Yeah. What is it? He doesn't know, so don't ask him.

Who is the couple that's getting divorced? What do we know about them? Jessie and Michelle. Do you know them?

Have you met them? Yeah. I don't know them super well, but I've spent some time with them, and I I was not a fan of him.

Michelle seems lovely.

She's the sweetest. Of course, I've never said anything, but I would make comments with some of the other gals in our friend group, and we were like, He's a pig. Awful. They had this boys group chat, and he would say really whack stuff in this group. I'm not going to repeat it because it's- About his wife or just extracurriculars? No.

Just a tease?

I think it's also some of that's going to come out this season from what I've heard.

Extremely problematic.

Okay. Yeah, I'd say problematic.

Are we sexist, racist? Which one?

Is it Ist?

It's an ist.

Yeah. I've spent, which is not a ton, but more time with Michelle, and she is the sweetest person. They have a beautiful daughter. I think she's a wonderful mother.

I'm very happy for her.

I am, too.

I will say watching It's like, I feel like Kristen really has matured over the years. We are going back and watching all the episodes of Vannerpump. As a fan, selfishly, and I apologize to Kristen, I want Crazy Kristen back on my TV screen because she was awesome as a TV character. I'm really curious if she's going to bless us with just a hint of that, or is it just going to be... Again, because while Jacks is questioning her her right to be a mother, she was rather poised.

If she's in the right state of mind, I would have lost my shit if Jacks, of all people, is questioning if I'm ready based on my state of mind.

Yeah. Right.

She was level-headed.

Conviction.

Yeah, she was convicted.

It was a little sad.

I wanted to see.

But I feel like the Crazy Kristen thing is similar to a Tequila Katie thing. It's like, Are we crazy and is it Tequila Katie or are we just over it?

Yeah, no.

Have we just been pushed to the edge.

I'm glad Kristen has demonstrated growth. I'm just saying as a fan, selfishly.

I'm just saying from the teasers and everything like that, it looks like she does pop off a bit, but Crazy Kristen is…

It really seemed like Jack's the whole episode was trying… When you were watching it, I feel like he was like, I'm back on TV. Him running around the party, pantsing people. To me, that was Jack's being like, I'm back. I'm back on TV, and I'm just going to act like an asshole.

I could be wild and crazy.

I'm so much fun. I'm a star.

Yeah, that was super weird.

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, he's just such a piece of shit. What? What?

Don't hold back. No, I'm just watching your face, and it's funny. Yeah, that's true.

What does my face do? Sometimes I don't.

All right, the thing I forgot to talk about in the valley. Also, everyone, welcome to the show. Lea, Time Warp.

There she is.

We replaced Justin.

Justin was fired in between. That's a sweet boy.

Yeah, anyways, welcome, Lea. Welcome to the show. It's night time. Anyways, we did a time-lapse. But before we get to the Bachelor, I know we have to wrap up on the Valley. But the new couple, and that's the couple who's... I keep forgetting their names. They're new. The one's getting divorced already. Jessie.

Jessie, Michelle. Okay.

Jessie's Is it the guy or Michelle's the guy?

Jessie's the guy. Who do you think?

What are they, French? Yes, Michelle is the girl.

What are you talking about? Michelle.

Is it that crazy of a question?

No, it's. A little bit. Anyway, so that couple.

Jessie and Michelle. Jessie.

The one who hates being a father.

The one who wants to drink champagne at 9:00 AM.

Who wants to go on the... It's a serious question, Katie. Yes. You are a veteran. You are an iconic reality TV character. You've been on the show for how long have you been a Vanderpump?

Emmy nominated Vanderpump Rules cast member. Thank you. For eleven Seasons Running. Yes.

Check off those boxes. Yes.

Let's just put the It all. Get it right.

But for the people, the Jags Taylor's of them all. I can't imagine some middle-aged guy be like, You know what? I'm going to go on this show and I'll be the deadbeat dad.

And look terrible.

Yeah, I don't know. Is that just Can you explain it? Because I only come from Bachelor World, and Bachelor World, the worst you can look is not there for the right reasons. But you're just- Did he go on the show signing up for that role?

Is that what you're asking?

Yeah. It's his first episode. He's like, Yeah, I'm a terrible fucking father. My wife, she's a great mother, and when it comes to me being a dad- He also made that comment to Lala about being his mistress in front of his- That he also came off as a little creepy.

That's him.

Okay. You guys film so much, and like on The Bachelor, at the end of the day, yeah, they pick and choose spots, but eventually, you'll show your true colors.

It's a little hard to, I think, hide who you really are. I mean, people will try to present themselves in a way, but I think it comes across as phony. Eventually, it's easier just to be honest about who you are.

I guess.

I think some people are a little too honest about who they are, case in point.

Yeah, I guess. I mean, I'm interested. I don't know why. I can't imagine.

It seemed like a natural off-the-cuff comment when Michelle was saying, Do you want to help with our daughter? I can't remember specifically what he said, and he was like, No. I think maybe that was him trying to be tongue-in-cheek or whatever, but it just bowing. It didn't land. You know what I mean?

I'm only seven weeks in. Maybe the charm will rub off. But we just got done viewing the Bachelor finale, and it was a no-brainer for me to first, before we got back up here, started re-recording, which I was excited to get into, to go help Natalie take River back in the car so they could go home. That's just something you do. He's just gone, No, I'm not going to go in this show. I'm going to try to be funny and just be the guy who's like, No, I don't like being a dad.

I'm wondering if he truly just thought it was going to be funny. He's just trying to be ha-ha. But just like, I know this- I would never joke about that. This is a small thing, and not to be nitpicky, but even the ice cream thing where he got her all the ice cream and then was just like, and also just then let her go into the wild and was like, Good luck. She's walking around and Michelle was like, Okay, we need to have lunch, not just the ice cream. It was just like...

It's certainly a choice. I'm just saying it's a creative choice I don't think I would make to go on this show.

She's a single parent is what it looks like. She's a single parent with an adult child. Yeah. Yeah. And a small child as well. Mother of two. You know, literally.

Tough episode for him.

I also think he came on, right? He's a friend of Jack's. I think there's some back history that they've known each other from back in the day where I'm also like, That's not the most promising reference.

When everyone comes along, they're like, Yeah, I knew Jack's back in the day. We were roommates It's modeling together. It's like,.

Is that the main character?

Immediately, no.

Something I forgot to bring up when we were talking Vanderpub, my favorite part of last episode, when it was Tom was... I felt like it was when Tom was on this episode trying to convince me I was late when he was talking about Ariana's alleged Five Night Rager.

Oh, God.

I knew he was totally full of shit and lying when he was like, Yeah. Then I had to get up for work.

I had work the next day. Where?

Which one? Where? And when?

I don't know. Yeah, trying to say that it was 4:30, 5:00 in the morning.

He's not a 9:00, 9:00 guy.

No. I had to wake up for work.

I was making that up.

Yeah, no, I don't think so.

Am I wrong? Did Ariana have a five-night ranger?

No.

I just wanted to make sure. I don't want to...

No, she did not.

No. I mean, if there was nights that we were ever... I remember there was nights that we were up late playing music, but he wasn't home, so he doesn't know. So he can't complain.

That's what I assumed, but I had to get up for work. He just says shit that just he thinks sounds believable.

I know. Well, especially considering that there was just so many nights where he was doing that. She was like, PTSD because she'd be in bed, lying there, and she would hear the JBL speaker turn on and makes this noise where it turns on. It goes,. She's like, Oh, my God.

All right. Maybe this story is too close to home, but you made me want to... You reminded me of the first time I went to Tom Sandoval's house when I was on Special Forces with him.

So last month.

That was three months ago. It was three months ago. You know when it was? It was your ex's birthday.

So October. Yeah. Yeah.

I read... Swartz was there. It was his birthday. He was celebrating his birthday at the viewing party. He was giving me the tour of the backyard, and he pointed to the pool. He He goes, he pointed at the hot tub. He's like, and he sincerely was like, Yeah, man, that thing's just like a time vortex. Like, once you get in, you're there all night. And I'm thinking, It's just a hot tub. Why are you in there all night? But he was so passionate about the persuasion that apparently that hot tub had over him and Tom Sandoval.

No, it's a persuasion that Tom Sandoval has over him. We see it all.

But on this episode, he did bow out that party.

Yeah, if Tom Schwartz is leaving your party because it's weirding him out, that says a lot. Something's gone terribly wrong. Tom Schwartz has never left a party at that house early. You don't think that that's not a sign of growth per se? I don't know what is a sign of, but it said, I was like, Yo, that's...

It's a sign the wheels have fallen off.

Tom, I don't know what... I remember him telling me, at some point, maybe the day after something, he's like, I felt really uncomfortable. Seeing it, I was like, I would have... That was the most uncomfortable I've ever seen in my life.

I feel like getting to know him a little bit, I don't know, maybe you have a different… You definitely know more than I do. But I feel like Tom Swartz's loyalty to Sandoval is well-documented.

Unwavering.

Unwavering. But it seems like now, you can see him see it. Even the after shows where Tom's doing his bullshit. His straight face. God bless Swartz, where it's like, he won't give up on him, but it's like he sees what he's up against.

I see him disassociating. He's like,. He used to try to help him in some ways. Now he's just like, I'm just going to...

It was on this couch where it was trying to explain what Tom Sandoval meant, and it was like, you don't need to be his interpreter or translator. Math equations. Now it's the after show where he's just sitting there like, Please stop talking.

Please stop talking. He's literally just like that.

It's great.

Anyway. He gets his phone out.

Before we get to The Bachelor, I want to know, while we watching The Bachelor, they showed a preview for Lisa Vanderpump's new show on Hulu, a Vanderpump Villa. I am dying to know your opinion.

I was on my phone. I told you I was on my phone.

Do you want to play it? Do you need the...

Okay, you know that she's dropping a show that seems to be like a new Vanderpump.

Yeah, except for it's people that are living in a villa. I didn't see any guests. Are they supposed to be helping? I don't know. It's 10 to guests.

It doesn't… Is this a Lisa Vanderpump Villa or is this a French house they rented?

It's formatted in the style of below deck. Every episode will be a new group of people staying there.

Why do you think it's on Hulu and not Bravo? I don't know.

Or Peacock. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't either. Maybe she's trying to branch out babes.

I was going to say, I feel like Lisa, didn't she have a show where she invited people over for dinner and stuff? That wasn't on Peacock or Bravo.

It was on E. It was like, so she's just... Bravo Jason. It's, yeah. Okay.

That would also be Peacock.

Yeah. I don't know. That is a good question. I don't know if... I don't know how that happened.

What do you think about it? You seem to have an opinion.

I'll tune in. No, I don't. She's an insider.

I'm not. It's Hulu. You think I'm an insider? First of all- More than I am. I didn't even know that it was happening until she was going to go do it. I had such minimal information. I'm curious. I I'm learning about it with the rest of the world, you guys. You're not going to be defensive. Truly. What I found out about it, I was like, Can I come to France? Can I come hang out in the- You're not going to ask. Is there going to be a crossover? I don't know.

I know that they were looking for people for bachelor at parties, all that stuff, because my friend sent it to me and was like, Should we go to the French Villa, like fake a marriage, and just go? I was like, Maybe, but no.

I'm willing to give it a shot. It really just depends on how the casting is.

I think they're just trying to re-kickstart the magic that happened season one of Vanderpux.

Do you know how many How many times that's been tried? Tried? Yeah.

I don't think you guys went hard of the pain.

We've said a million times why we think our show worked and worked so well, and it's not something you can recreate. But it doesn't mean it can't be entertaining or it can't be a great show. It's just not going to be the same show. I think it's something they try to do with Southern Hospitality, but I'm enjoying that show. I think it's a great show. It's just not the same show. It's a show about a staff that works at a club in Charleston and stuff like that. It's entertaining. It's the same drama of people that work in hospitality and that things, but it's not the same thing. Same, yeah. But I don't know. I mean, yeah, of course, I'm curious. Of course, I want to watch it, but I don't know. I don't have the insight. Sorry, I can't help you out there. Totally okay. I know nothing about the casting. I know nothing with the people. I know nothing about filming and all that.

Now I feel like I'm Jessie Palmer because I'm like, Now, before we get to the Bachelor. We were also watching the Bachelor. Another commercial that we saw was the movie for the Stuntman. Was it the Stuntman? The Security. No, it's with-Fall Guys. Ryan Gossling, the Fall guy. It's a bottom Stuntman. Ryan Gossling and Emily Blunt, two very charismatic characters, and I couldn't help see their charisma pop off the screen watching it. It's just like, How do you be married to an actor?

You be another actor.

You got You got to be very secure.

You got to level the playing field. Is that how you do it? If you're John Krasinski and who's he?

You got to be very secure.

Ava Mendez.

Ava Mendez, yeah.

I don't know. I think that Ava Mendez wakes up in the morning and looks in the mirror and is like, yeah. I don't know that she's even Emily Blunt's stunning, and yeah, they're making out the- It's not a matter of hotness.

It's just more like, damn, you guys are very charismatic together.

Yeah, but the thing is, I don't think it's what you think. I don't think it's as sexy as you think it is.

Well, yeah, then they say Ryan Gosling and what's her name? Kate McAdams did not like each other.

Kate McAdams. Rachel McAdams. Rachel McAdams.

They dated for several years.

They were a couple for a long time.

Isn't the rumor on set, they weren't fans of each other?

No, they didn't. I'm crazy. No, that's 50 Shades of Gray.

I think you're thinking of Dirty Dance. Oh, yeah. Jennifer Gray and Patrick Swayze did not get along. I saw.

Maybe it was the internet giving me fake news, but I definitely saw somewhere that they did not... Fuck me.

No, they dated.

They did an interview with Zendaya and Timothée Chalamet, and they asked questions about their chemistry, and they were just like, No, we are just friends.

Did they have chemistry?

In Dune? Yeah.

Well, just phenomenal actors, I guess. Anyway.

Great actors. It looks like a good movie.

It's almost like they should get paid for it.

Sure. That chemistry. Sometimes that chemistry is just natural. Like Joey and Chelsea.

You can fake it. You find something you really like about the person, you love about the person, and then you use that to not fake it. You create chemistry out of that. It's not the same chemistry you have with your partner or person.

I mean, Brad and Angelina, he was married to Jen Anaston, and then that happened. Obviously, different situation.

They were so good at acting. They actually fell in love.

They literally were so... The chemistry was so crazy.

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Is it time for Shot O'Clock.

Shot O'Clock. Oh, my goodness. What was that? No, I know. I know it was Jen's thing, but why did she lead with that? I don't know. Anyways, obviously, Joey and Kelsey are Very solid finale.

I love them together. I think they're so adorable.

Across the board, just good vibes. The Daisy exit was nice. I mean, I got emotional. Like, women empowerment.

Was it different than anything you've ever seen before on The Bachelor.

It's never been done, but I don't think Daisy's the first one who wish they could have done it. Totally, sure. Most people aren't as delusional as I was when I was in that position. I was like, full steam ahead. I'm like, there were a couple of moments moments where I was like, Yeah, it's definitely not me, but I would snap right back in. I'm like, No, you're fucking in this shit. But I think a lot of people before that... I think Raven for my season, I think she fucking knew. I was very careful about what I did and said and what I said. I really didn't want to lead people on. Raven's a very intelligent person. I think Rachel knew. I think they all knew.

Well, I could say that Joey wasn't as subtle. I'll say that much. It was pretty obvious.

I think they almost had to do what they did because what was Joey's line? I hope you fall in love.

I hope you fall in love, even if it's not with me.

Even with me or just in general.

Or with someone else. Or with someone else or something.

Once, Joey said to the daisy, that was it. They were like, You just told her you're not going to pick her, dude. She's smart.

The joy literally left Dazy's face, body. She was like, Okay, I'll kiss you.

They couldn't edit it out. I'm glad they did what they did because they could have edited that part out. They could have edited that part out and had Daisy did what she did, and that would have almost made her seem like, You're quitting. How do you really know?

Well, her entire demeanor changed. She was like, literally, she turned into a sad little puppy. It would have been hard to explain.

Or just in general. I don't know.

Just in general?

Or just in general.

Imagine how many women are on that show, and I guess when it's also the Bachelor, like men, who have anxious attachment styles when all you're doing is seeking validation. She kept saying, I'm not getting the validation here. I'm not getting the validation. Because it seems like he was also careful to not... I mean, he told her without telling her.

We should get T-shirts and say, or just in general.

Yeah, I could not do that. Show.

Never.

I could not do that because I would be like, I need clarity. I need you to tell me exactly where your head's at.

Competing for a man in this economy? No, absolutely not.

I'm like, I I'd like to be pursued, so you're going to have to- No.

I was like, I'm not going to go into Kelsi's room. I'm going to go into Joey's room being like, Hey, is it me? No. Because I'm feeling like, no.

Do you love me? Are you choosing me? If not, I'm leaving. Exactly. That's not how this works, Katie. I'm like, I don't care.

The friend thing was It was- Did it play out for you? I mean, whatever.

Did you like it?

I didn't care. I don't really have a strong opinion.

I mean, they made a big deal about the two of them being in the car together for it to- That was a nice moment for sure.

It was a nice touch. I When I say I don't care, I feel like other people have stronger opinions about the moment. I think you suggested that almost like- Kelsey was being a girl's girl in that moment because at that moment, she's like, Okay, well, it is me, obviously, because this girl So, clearly- Kelsey was wearing white.

Yeah, she was wearing white. She's like, I know it's you.

She's like, I know I'm wearing white.

She's wearing your wings. She walked out.

She's like, I got all the validation I needed. And Daisy's like, I got zero. And she was like, Yes. Oh, sorry. Okay, well, let me cuddle She was like, Let me just be here for you in this moment. Let's go together.

So, Kelsey was a better friend.

No one was being a better friend. I think she just put her stuff aside for a moment just to be an emotional support for Daisy. That was being a friend. But not that Daisy wasn't. She had to just be in her emotions, and she tried to hold it together and do the graceful exit thing.

Well, also, that has always confused me because friend, yes, I guess friendships form, you're in a house together, but you are all competition. So is it like, is that a scenario in which that would even be required? Yeah, you don't want to be a dick.

It gets very weird towards the end. It gets very personal. In most cases, the reason they separate it is because even if you like the person, you're just like, This is too fucking weird. I mean, again, Joey was just like, or in general. And in that moment, they were like, Oh. I felt bad for Kelsey. She knows she's not going to be picked. So how else can we make this work? Had they cut that out and air it where Jay's just moping around? Yeah, he's definitely not going to pick me because she fucking knew.

How did you feel bad for Kelsey?

I feel bad for Kelsey because I feel like her moment of getting to go up there and be proposed to and not know beforehand was taken from her.

I hear what you're saying. I just think having been in that position, you don't care about anyone ruining the surprise. If any moment, if you were to be the one or not be the one, a heads up is fully appreciated. I don't think Joey knew, though, because he tried to do the fake out. Joey definitely knew.

He tried to do the fake out, though. It could be wrong. We'll ask him. Then he went with it, but Kelsey already knew that she was going to be the choice.

Oh, I'm sorry. You knew? Okay, I get what you're saying. I thought you said that Joey didn't know who he was going to pick.

No, I'm saying I don't think he knew that they had that moment before.

He might not have known. For sure, he might not have known. He almost certainly didn't, unless someone told him.

Well, when he, after walked away, when he walked off and was talking to producers, you don't think someone was like, By the way, they came together. Definitely. They tried to do the thing. You don't think so?

Well, first of all, only if they wanted him to know. That would have happened without him knowing. There are a lot of things that the lead doesn't get to know. If they want the lead to know, they'll tell them, but only if they want them to know.

Where's he like, How does she do?

I mean, I don't know. Afterwards, they would be like, She's fine. They'll give you the whole, She'll be sad, but the bachelor or bachelor will often check in after they send people home late in the journey. You're like, Yeah, how's so and so? Because you feel like you get to know. You're like, How's that? You get to know. I just don't want to say names from my season. But yeah, in Joey's case, he might be like, How's Rachel? How's Rachel doing?

I have a question. Is it true when you're doing the rose ceremonies, when there's 15 of them that they're telling you the names?

No, there's no earpreas. You walk in.

You have to remember their names?

They give you four names. Or it's a game of guessing. Usually, it's four. They'll give you four names. First of all, when the women are there or the guys are there, it's a quiet room. Unless you've listened to the show before, you're some super fan, you have no fucking clue what to expect.

I can't remember one person's name when they've told it to me 10 seconds before.

I know. Then this is what it would happen to do. Basically, they give you four names and they walk you out and they say, just do your thing. If at any moment you forget, if you forget, just walk on back. Because the people there, they'll just think there's more suspense or you're still making a decision. They have us guys who are sitting there walking in and out five times. You're like, Holy fucking shit. Will she make up her mind? You don't fucking know. They give you four names and you say four names, you walk off, you say four names, you walk off. The first time you're there, you're like, What the fuck is going on?

Now they know. I'm just glad you didn't have a Chelsea and a Kelsey on your season because that would have been a mess.

Now everyone- Well, Jessie Palmer, classically, now hosts the show. I think classically said the wrong He did. No, sorry.

She walked up to get the rose, and he's like, Oh. He's like, Stop.

Not you. I would just leave. I think they had to bring out another Rose.

But now I just wonder that. I'm just like, he just remembers all his names?

Well, luckily, there's a lot of names.

They're like, Matt P. Matt S. It's not that hard.

Again, if you forget, you just walk off and everyone's like, that much more intense.

But now everybody knows if you're ever on it and he's walking away, it's because he doesn't remember. Yeah, now you If he comes back and he calls your name next, it's because he couldn't remember it.

You're not a front runner.

Jenna's a new Batcherette.

Wow. Shocking.

Very shocking, everyone.

I was shocked that it wasn't Daisy after this episode.

Well, first of all, obviously, First Asian Batcherette. That's amazing. Love the representation. Sad that it took this long. Elephant in the room, everyone's super disappointed. It's not Maria, mostly. I think there was a lot of Daisy fanfare after her strong ending because she was the last person to get broken up with. There's always going to be that buzz around her name. But where I feel bad for Jen, I think there's a lot of positive sentiment for Jen because she seems like a wonderful person. We just don't know anything about her. That's what's a bummer is because there's 30 women, right? 32? 32. Okay. However many participants plus the lead, there are that many stories that they have an option to tell. They always focus on the lead, and then they have, what, three or four other stories to tell because there's limited time. They chose to focus on Maria, they chose to focus on Obviously, Kelsey, she ends up. It's like they didn't do Jen any favors by not focusing on their story. Now, I was told by someone who was told that as a week ago, Maria was the best she had. Now, this person could have been definitely wrong.

They clearly were. But I thought it was. Two hours before we were recording this, I called a friend, and they were like, Yeah, so it's not her, it's Jen. I was surprised. But I guess I heard that Maria was the choice and that they couldn't make it work for reasons that are unclear. But I could be wrong. I'm sure Maria will get asked about the process. I mean, Daisy, Another, she came out and said she's not ready to date, but the big question is, is that Daisy being gracious and being a good sport and everyone showing support for Jen? Or was Daisy asked, did she turn it down because If she is, in fact, not ready, I'd be curious to know.

Call me, Daisy.

Let me know. Do we have any speculation in the room?

No, I feel like it feels genuine. I don't know. Maybe she's just really not. I mean, she seemed pretty, not traumatized, but pretty, I don't know. Shaken up.

The intensity of reality television, it wouldn't surprise me if she genuinely just needed to take a beat, even if it wasn't maybe for the show's sake, she's like, Oh, I'm not ready to date. Maybe in general, that was a really big experience, and she needs a breather.

That wouldn't surprise me. I think she had a strong enough… This was a very popular season, no doubt. She was a star in this popular season. If they needed to go back to Daisy, they definitely could. If in a year from now, they have another bachelor season where for whatever reason… You know what this season… You know what's the season that's really underappreciated? Peter Webbers' season. Did you watch that season?

I did.

That was fucking crazy. Is it Pilot Pete? That was fucking crazy. Yeah. That was an amazing season.

I don't remember.

Here's what was so amazing. You just have to remember the ending with Barb, his mom, and the fight that his mom had with Maddie Proust. What people don't realize that Peter was so chaotic and so messy. Now, keep in mind, after that messy fucking finale, Peter Webbers, God bless him, and I love him as a person. He's a great guy, started dating Kelly Flanigan, and then they broke up and then got back together. But before he started dating Kelly Flanigan, he got engaged to Hannah Ann, star. Love her. She's Baker on the internet. She's crushing life. Happily engaged. You had Victoria Fuller, friend of show who famously didn't even show up for her hometown. Right before her hometown, She just picked a fight with Peter and said, Fuck this. I'm not even going. Left her parents sitting in the fucking house.

With him?

No. She's walking with Peter. I don't know what the fuck happened. They were on her doorstep. I don't know. Victoria Fuller got activated and she said, Fuck this. Picked a fight with Peter, said, I'm out. They made up the next day. It was awesome. It was iconic. I think as great as she is, I think she was a little messy for maybe the Bat-Shiret, whatever. But they had no... You couldn't pick Hannah-Ann because he was like, just... You went into the finale. It was just like, he's engaged, but five minutes later, they broke up. Then he was with Maddie. Then he was with Maddie. So all these great options of Bat-Shirets were on pause because Peter was so fucking messy on his season that you're going into the finale being like, who the fuck is Peter Webber with? And he was maybe with half his gas. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but not really. But that's why you didn't have anyone from that season. My energy.

Who ended up being the bachelorette? Did they use someone from a previous season?

Who ended up being the bachelorette? It was like, 2020, '19.

nick, I know it's your job to be… You're so knowledgeable about this. Were you a fan of The Bachelor? We covered the show.

I had never seen it.

Had you ever seen it before you wanted it?

Before I got cast, I bought Desiree's season, which was The Bachelor before I went on, and I watched that. Then I watched the current season, which was the Juan Pablo season at the time. I definitely did my homework. Prior to that, I had friends who'd watched it. I had seen episodes of Sean Lo. I knew who Emily Maynard was. I was familiar with it, but I wasn't a fan.

Was it Claire?

Yeah, they made it Claire. Then Claire- Oh, my God.

Yeah, they called- And that was the worst- And then that happened.

Then that led in LaTasha.

Then Tasha had to fill in. Because that was also COVID, too. Was Tasha from Peter's season? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, they had to pull in Tasha because Claire picked somebody after the second week or something.

Anyway, I'm happy for Jen. I just wish we would know. We knew more. We don't know anything about her, and I hope they aren't as precious. They're usually so precious with giving us access to their leads, but they did such a poor job of telling Jen's story on this season. I hope they decide to let us know who this person is because-I feel like we got to know her a little bit at the Women Tell All.

A little. She had the hot seat. Well, maybe that'll make it more interesting. I don't know.

Sure. Yeah, for us diehards, we're going to watch it either way. But I'm just saying for the people who…

Well, but maybe not having all the info, so you're not going in with already an opinion that is already colored that you're like, I don't know anything. So we can all learn about this together.

We'll see. I don't know. Listen, they surprised me with Hannah Brown. That worked out. That worked, yeah. They surprised you with me and say what you want, but you guys watched the fuck out of that season. Yeah, so who knows? Who She does Shots.

Shut O'Clock.

Is that a Bachelor thing or is that a her specific?

That's a her thing. The first time I've ever heard that in my entire life.

I guarantee that's going to be a thing of the season.

No, it'll probably be a thing because we don't know anything about Jen. So all over the internet for the next three days, Shut O'Clock. You remember? This another thing reminds me of when Becker Koufrin was the bachelier at, what was her big thing? You remember? For three days, everyone was saying it, and everyone was like, Now, don't ever fucking say it again. What was it? Oh, my God. What was her tagline?

Let's do the damn thing.

She said it like 30 times at the finale, and then she was the Bat-Shirad. Three days later, I was like, Don't ever fucking say that again.

It's given that the guys are going to be pretty messy this coming season then. If her tagline is Shot O'Clock, I'm like...

She wants that, apparently.

She wants someone with a big personality.

A big, big... Shot O'Clock. Maybe this time it gets a little messy Because how old is she?

Do we know?

I don't know. I remind me. No disrespect to Jen, but he was like, So who do you know who the best Shoret is? My friend was like, Jen. I was like, Who? I was like, Who? Again? Which we Did they go home? There's so many. There's so many contestants. It's such a blurb. They didn't tell her story. She's 26. Not like they told Dazies and Kelsies and Rachel's and Maria's. She got kicked out. Alexi. We know more about Lexie. Facts.

I really liked Lexie, but she got kicked off the week before Homes Town, is correct? Lexie? Jen.

Oh, Jen.

I think so.

We didn't get to see her family and home stuff and everything. No. It's a bummer.

What did you think of Maria getting up at the end and giving her stamp of approval for Jen?

I think it was very smart for them to do that because it's no... Obviously, a lot of people wanted Maria. The internet was very... I mean, a lot of people wanted Maria. The hashtag the Basher was very pulling for Maria. So much so that when they did the whole Daisy fake out, there were even... And Daisy's very popular. I thought Daisy was a slam dunk. They were upset about that. I think it was smart. Maria very graciously said a lot of nice things about Jen. I think that was a very smart way to support their bachelorette and pass the torch, so to speak. I don't know if it'll work with Bachelier Nation. Then a lot of people immediately were like, Oh, maybe Bachelier in Paradise. But who knows?

If they don't do Bachelier in Paradise, they're really missing out because the women from this season have been- Maybe that's what they're waiting for.

Are they not doing it?

I think they were- It was such a fucking mess last year. They had, I think, one of some of the worst ratings ever after following the Golden Bachelor, which was through the roof ratings, and it was not good. It was not good.

Also a hot take, but I feel like the men on Bachelor in Paradise have ruined it in the sense that they're not really going after the women. They're like, Cool, bro, hang out.

It's very bro-y. It's very like...

The women are like, Hey, are we on a couple or not? He's like, Well, let me just go hang out with my bro. I'm like, If they actually had men that were of caliber, actually looking for relationships, it would be great like the old times. But I think that's where it fell off a little bit.

The problem is, I don't think any of them- Men want to kiss each other for the most part. That's probably the problem. How many people are going to look for a relationship? But what if they make it so it's like, they're not there to look for a relationship, but they're just there to look for, I don't know, someone to hang out with for a little while. Take the pressure off of it. I think what it is. Take the pressure off of it.

I think what it is. Summer. You're right. No, everyone's going there not just for a relationship, and I think it would be insane to only go for a relationship. I would literally say that. But I think when the women show up, they're more like, All right, let's lock the fuck in. We're here. The end goal is engagement. When I showed up, I was there. I was literally there. I was like, I've never been to Europe, so this will be cool. That was my justification.

Didn't you film in Mexico?

No, we went to Europe the first time. I mean, either way. I knew we were going to travel. I had never been to Europe or Asia, so either way, I was going to be winning.

But the way that people get engaged in Bachelor in Paradise, and I know it's worked out for some of them, but that's insane to me. But I think, can they make it a bit of a different premise in something? We're talking about doing the Bachelor Games again.

I think they should bring back Bachelor Pad or some Bachelor of Games. Reality competition has never been more popular.

Yeah, so it's not about just trying to lock it down.

Bravo did so much better of creating some universe. I think ABC, The Bachelor, they're more known for alienating their alumni and being like, Thank you next, for whatever reason. And they just decided not to leave.

While it's more than obvious that no one's there trying to... Once you're off the buzz, everyone's like, they get put into a sphere of, I don't know, it's on world. They're going to the bachelor. They didn't get chosen. They weren't like that. They were trying to be like influence or whatever. Something. Just don't try to capitalize on that, what the bachelor already is, where it's like looking for love, trying to get engaged, the whole thing. If they just made something else entirely, I don't know.

Yeah. Why can't you just admit everyone, we're all frisky, and half our hearts are broken. Why does it have to be this serious thing? Is it bachelor, am I supposed to be the Bachelor light?

It's just Yes, but Bachelor, I mean, again, depends on who's making the decisions there. It's a company like any other people come and go. People's opinions on what the show should be change. It's been a comedy at times. It's been more earnest. The people who run the franchise, I mean, they take making great television very seriously more than anything, but some are more into the love, and they are very earnest about it. Part of the problem is that the show has shamed people for showing up for the wrong reason. So people are feigning sincerity because they're so afraid of the show being like, You're not there for the right reasons. Well, that's what I mean.

If they don't need to be there for a reason, period, then just to show up, look hot, maybe make out with somebody, have a good time. I don't know.

Yeah, you come from Bravo. Sounds great. What I've learned watching Bravo in The Bachelor, two very different fucking- I was going to say you're just describing Love Island now.

Well, they… It worked. Katie, a week ago, Jessie Palmer on the tell-off was like, The craziest thing this season was like, Did Maria tell so and so to shut the fuck up?

That was the big like, Oh, no. Meanwhile, Jack is like, I fucked a porn star. So just two very different levels of entertainment.

I know, but...

If you were a producer on the show, Katie, what would you want to watch them to the best or more? I don't think they could use notes, to be honest.

It's this wholesome show where it's like, No, why the fuck is that? No, it's not.

What do you want it to be?

I want to see Mess.

I want to get nasty.

Yeah, I want to see people bitch each other out. I want to see people get wasted. I want to I want to see some slob kebabs immediately.

Everyone's too buttoned up. Slob kebabs.

It's too buttoned up. It's like, Oh, my God.

It's ABC, The Bachelor. It's network television still. I don't care.

You had Corinne. You had who's the girl that passed out during.

You had to have the guts to take the wrath. The problem with being, especially the bachelor. I know.

Kylin Bristol was like the... She was the wild card of it all. She wasn't that wild. I'm like, what the hell?

You get judged. You get judged Especially as a bachelor or as the bachelorette for who you keep and send home, even though half the time you don't give a shit. Me knowing that Corinne… Corinne was a star, an absolute star. Whether we had… But I knew I was going to get shit, and I fucking got shit. But you're welcome.

You're welcome.

She's a star.

Well, yeah. No, I get it. I get it's ABC. I get it's middle America.

They want to keep it wholesome.

That's why we have you, Katie. Step away from Walmart. So we can cruise on over to fucking cable.

The best thing that's happened to nick is branching into Bravo. He's like, wait.

It's like, oh, my God, the discourse here. So much fun. So much to talk about. Yeah.

It's great. Katie's like, That's my life.

Dana, I Can I ask?

Here's a question. What? You filmed the reunion. We hear it's messy. We hear Andy Cohen saying, Strong finish. I think a lot of people went into season 11 thinking maybe it's Celeste. I'm assuming you don't know, but if you were in Vegas placing bets, are you expecting a season 12 or no?

I would assume. The ratings have been really good. Unless the ratings are bad, I can't imagine that they wouldn't. I don't know. We don't find that out. We find out when everyone else does. It's usually not now.

Do you expect any major mixups, any core members, possibly not returning?

I don't. I mean, I don't know.

Anything's possible?

I think anything's possible.

Dana.

Any chances?

I love your input on this. Any chances of returning? Maybe it's safer for you to answer.

I think anything's possible.

We literally just said that.

I mean, because I just think I could see it going one of two ways. I hope a shake of happens.

Is it them or them? Is it like it's either you or me to the death? Just throwing out names.

I don't think that would ever work. I I don't think you can make those demands. I think I've heard housewives maybe do that in the past. Not even demand.

I don't know.

I think that certain people are sick to death of certain things about the show, and it will probably be up to them, ultimately.

Do you think Ariana is going to graduate from being on Vanderpump Rules?

I don't know.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I think some people.

I would watch a spinoff of you and Ariana Where do we get the drama, though? It's like you grow up and then everyone else still is doing whatever they're fucking doing in the fucking... Maybe they would just be... I don't know.

Dana, would you ever return to reality TV?

If it was a certain set of circumstances. So like, Vanderpump Rules is just obviously not a fit for me. It definitely not no, but it's not something that I'm like, I really fucking want to be on reality TV. If it was something that I was excited with people that I was excited being around, yeah, sure. Why not? We're on a rock floating through space.

We're all going to die soon. Sure. I think you're excellent television. I think you're too good for your own good. You're too afraid to go on and say what you would really want to I don't- I don't- Did I say that as a compliment? Well, thank you.

But no, it's not that I'm afraid of saying what I want to say because that's how I operate in my real life. The reason why I'm not back on reality TV.

But there are There are certain elements about it that I do feel like are not to be a bitch, but more elementary than I am that I just don't...

There's certain things I don't want to participate in, and it's like that's playing the game.

You still have to pants people as a 40-year-old man.

I won't be pantsing anyone, but if it were the right circumstances with the right girls.

Well, we are loving the Valley and Vannerpump. I'm excited to see how it all goes down. Anything other bachelor thoughts? Again, congratulations to Jen. Bachelor, I'd love to know who your next lead is anytime before the season starts. Thank you, ladies, for being a part of this episode. This was so much fun. Thanks for playing with us. Thanks for having us. Lots of fun. We had a great time. We talked a lot. We spent the whole goddamn day together. Yeah, it was Overall, a great episode, I thought. It was a great episode. If you want more, tomorrow, disrespectfully is out, another episode. I think you elaborate on some of the tea we talked about today.

Then some.

Then some. Then on Thursday, a reminder going Going deeper, we got Joey and Kelsey with us. Hopefully, we'll get to know them a little bit more. I will say it's a hell of a time between fucking when they wrap filming in this moment. Those couples are not set up for success.

I can't I'm not going to ask them all about it.

They're not. Imagine, okay, you get engaged on a show. You've spent, I don't know, let's say 10 hours together. I think that's being generous. I think you have a weekend. That's pretty cool. Off camera, you get a weekend.

You can 10 hours combined? Probably. The whole time.

Then you get put up in a really cool place. That weekend is pretty cool. You get to connect, you call your friends, everything's exciting, and then you go back to your world and that's freaky and you're freaking out what the fuck just happened. You're not allowed You get your phones back, you're back online, who knows what's been saying who or what. You talk to your friends, you can't see your person. Every 2-3 weeks, you get to fly out. They lock you in a house. It's nice, but again, you can't fucking go anywhere. That's fucking hectic. Meanwhile, then it starts airing. You get to watch. If you're Kelsey, you get to watch Joey say all this crazy shit, make all these women. He's just like, Baby, it was always you. Meanwhile, every episode is just like, I could definitely pick date. It's just very fucking hard. I could see myself falling. That's before you get into all the bullshit we say on this show and all the fucking bloggers and their opinions. It's the first time on your show. It's a lot. I wish them all the best. I hope they're doing well. I can't wait to talk to them and see how crazy it's fucking been.

Anyways, goodbye.

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