I know this is an off week for the show, but today we're doing something new, often on social media, people asking what other shows are similar to this is actually happening.

So today I'm introducing what was that like by Scott Johnson, which is exactly the podcast you're looking for, featuring real people in unreal situations. What was that like? Covers similar jaw dropping stories, but with its own uniquely fascinating format and style. Scott and I connected and I immediately knew I had a kindred spirit. We had so much to talk about and we decided to share each other's shows with our listeners.

So today's show will feature the full episode. Tyson was abducted from the podcast. What was that like? The episodes about a man who was walking through a parking lot one night was jumped by two strangers and thrown into a car with no idea where he was being taken. You can find the rest of what was that like on all podcast platforms or check out the website. What was that like? Dotcom. And now here's the episode. Tyson was abducted.

What was that like, contains adult language and content and is not intended for all audiences, listener discretion is advised. Welcome to what was that like, I'm your host, Scott Johnson.

This is a show where we talk to regular people, people just like you or just like me, who have found themselves in an extremely unusual situation.

We'll hear their stories and get inside their head because we all want to know what was that like, more information about each episode and what was that like? Dotcom.

Here we go. The tagline for this podcast is Real People in Unreal Situations, and today's story is about as unreal as it gets.

Imagine you're leaving work one night, it's dark, you're walking through the parking lot and suddenly an SUV with two men inside pulls up beside you. One of them jumps out and grabs you, throws you in the car and they quickly drive away. And there was no one around to see this happen. The drive for a while, but you can't see where they're taking you, you end up at a house, you don't know where you are, but you know what's very quiet?

There are no sounds of traffic, no other human activity nearby. Then they start beating you. This might sound like a bad dream or the opening scene to a horror movie, but for Tyson it was real life. When he first told me what happened, it sounded just a little too bizarre and on this podcast, I don't cover situations that are fictional, only true stories.

So I did the research. I obtained police reports, verified addresses, all that to make sure Tyson's story is true. Unfortunately for him, it actually happened. Before we get to that, I have a question for you. I'm thinking about doing a special episode of frequently asked questions about this podcast, not on a percent sure yet, but I'm considering it because there are some questions I get asked all the time, like how do I find these people in these stories?

So if you have a question you'd like to get answered, I'd like to hear from you.

Just send me an email at Scott at what was that like, dotcom? And now here's the conversation I had with Tyson. Do you ever look back at this whole situation and think, did that really happen? It's one of those things that I really wish that it didn't. It's. It's frankly been very hard at times to the point where I have. To the point where I've lost jobs over it, where I've lost relationships over it, where I've needed to.

Even just. Leave town and run away simply so that I could feel safe as a person. I mean, I'm the only person I know who has a really an emotional support closet that I can run off to and sort of collect my thoughts. It's. It's something that it would definitely make my life a whole lot easier if it didn't happen. I can see that, yeah, there are just so many bizarre elements to the story. And I've got lots of questions, but I'm going to let you, for the most part, just tell the story.

Can you talk about the first night you were at work and you were leaving work? What kind of work was it?

Where did you work then? I was working at Circuit City. I had been working in Bellevue, Washington, on. Circuit City had at that time started to run their own version of the Geek Squad, and I was the second person hired in order to do that work and help to figure out how they would go about doing it. So what that meant was I would usually show up early, leave late, even close up shop after locking away customers equipment so that it didn't accidentally get sold to someone or go missing.

And one night I was leaving work late and Roman, who was the store manager, was walking out with me. He offered to give me a ride to the bus stop because it was raining and. Looking back on it, I really should have taken him up on it, but that night I didn't I. Was walking the three quarters of a mile to hop the bus and go home, and a yellow Land Rover drove up beside me and asked if I needed help.

I said no thanks, kept walking and they were just continuing to keep pace with me in the parking lot, leaving them all. And before I knew it. Well, David jumped out of the passenger side door. I had a rope around my neck, was punched in the kidneys and forcibly put in the back of the car.

This sounds like a scene from a movie. Yeah. You know what really happened? Oh, yes.

It it definitely happened when part of me thinks that some of those scenes in movies happened because.

That's the way people can be, the general sense of cruelty that's inexplainable that. Ultimately creates the sort of villain that as an audience you can't relate to, and I'd say that out of the situation that's probably made things the hardest, because over time, as everything was happening, I not only felt like I related to Larry, but as though he loved me and was caring about me.

In a way that I felt that no one else had. Was this a the classic Stockholm syndrome? I would describe any part of it as classic, but my psychologist sure says so.

I mean, that sounds what I'm obviously I'm not a psychologist, but that's what it sounds like, where the person that's been abducted sort of identifies and sympathizes with his or her captor. And they sort of become on the same side, even though you're still being held against your will. So were you just a random target that night, they just happen to be going through the parking lot or did they specifically pick you?

What they said repeatedly is that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, which I later found out that Larry, who was the main guy in charge, had owned a pizza place that was in the food court at the mall just across the way. So me closing up them closing up no one else around. Crime of opportunity. So it's the two of them you get put in in their car. Did you lose consciousness at all? I honestly don't know.

I know that by the time that I got to the house, I. I was being choked and I don't remember. B, being taken from the car inside, so you must have lost consciousness then, yeah, unless they drugged you or something. I don't know, I would assume so, but. But I don't know. So just take us from that point when you're in the house now, what happened then? The first thing I remember when I was there is I was sitting in a wooden chair, my hands and feet were tied up and I got punched in the gut, literally and figuratively.

Larry was. Completely silent at first and. He was beating me. He would use his hands after a while, he. He pulled out a a wooden paddle and just started going in to me. He would hit me in the face, the gut, the side of. The first thing that I remember him saying is grab his hand where it was pulled out and he just fell on, hit it with the battle. After that, I was thrown to the ground.

I had somebody standing on my neck and. And then I was told about how. What he told me was that there was no sense of fighting, that there's no trying that. That I could either. Do as I was told, or things would get bad and it sound like things were already pretty bad. Yeah, it's the whole thing felt unbelievable. It felt like I would do anything, say anything to simply get away. And. After that, I was dragged by a rope that I had around my neck into a room down the hall, thrown on top of a bunch of empty boxes and left in there for.

A whole day. As I'm picturing this and trying to put myself in your position. Obviously, you feel pain, but it seems like the biggest thing would be confusion, like what's the motive? Why would they grab me and just are they just going to kill me or what are they going to what do they say anything about what the plan was or why any of this was happening?

Not for the first couple days. It was probably the hardest part where I didn't get to know what was going on.

I. I was left alone with my thoughts, not able to sleep and trying to figure out really why me, what was going on, was this even real? What? Can I do to change this? But there was nothing right? I mean, you were completely powerless if you were restrained completely or absolutely. What could you do, right?

Yes, I I was powerless in that situation. I. Really, the best thing that happened was a couple of days later when David came in, in order to, well, clean me up, put me in the shower, give me something to drink and trying to get me to eat where he would tell me what was going on and how. I've been taken that they weren't going to let me go that. I needed to accept what was going on, if I was told something that I would.

Obey it completely and that if I didn't, then I wouldn't like what happens next. And in that moment, I. Truly believed that David was he was this close to an ally or as a friend as I could have in that situation, like he.

Cared about me in the way that Larry, the leader of this whole thing, did not and that he that he wanted me to be OK. But he didn't have any choice in being able to let you go now, since Larry was like the leader here. No, in fact, this whole thing ended up taking a turn for the weird when David told me that. That Larry believes himself to be a God and that he just doesn't know, but he is afraid of him, so he will.

Do as he's told as well. So really, David didn't have the option of leaving either then?

No, he was Larry's brother and at times he had said that he was trying to protect him, to help him, to make sure that he would be OK. But it had always seemed like David was just as much on on my side of the room as he was on Larry's. So you were there.

You got you out after a couple of days out of that room. What happened after that? I was given food, I was given water, I was even allowed to listen to him watching TV. I didn't get to watch it myself.

And I was told to stay. Just that and and I did I. SAT right there where I was told and remain there until Larry got home, so Larry had to leave each day because he had to go to work.

Yeah, and but David was with you all the time, right? David, I can't think of a single time that he left. Well, actually, that's not true, I can't think of a time that he left when he wasn't told and accompanied. So Larry was a real estate agent, which meant that he had quite a bit of flexibility over his time and schedule, but sometimes, yes, he needed to leave and that in that time, David was left in charge.

Did you ever consider a time when, OK, I'm going to wait till David goes to the bathroom or he goes in the other room or the door's locked, that you couldn't leave or did were you ever contemplating some type of an escape during this time?

Constantly. Yes, the doors were locked. Netscape was always on my mind. The doors were locked, which was one of those things I tried very early on, but. I knew from the very first night that. Things were dead silent that the only thing that I could hear was the sound of leaves rustling and one night, a couple of weeks later, I did get out. I broke a window, the one that was in the bathroom, actually, and started running and.

It was on a gravel road, which being barefoot was difficult, but that was the furthest thing from my mind and the only thing I could think is that.

This is a road, it must go somewhere. And. Maybe five minutes later, there was that yellow Land Rover driving right after me and. I was grabbed and I was brought back. And. I was grabbed and I was brought back at gunpoint, which. It makes its point pretty clearly that this sort of thing won't be allowed that.

Trying to run is not going to work out. So did you know where you were as far as what part of town or what street you were on or anything like that?

Not for the first six months, no. I was being held in Maple Valley, which is and this is in Washington, yes. Mm hmm. It was the other side of a canyon where the only road through there was a highway that wasn't really well traveled. And even that was.

Probably a good two miles walk away, he needed to know it was there because you sure you certainly couldn't hear it. I'm just trying to imagine going for six months and not knowing where I am geographically. Yeah. What about your friends, your your work, did they not report you is not coming in or your friends report you missing or I mean, obviously you wouldn't have known it at that time. But now that you're out, did they did anyone do anything like that?

Ramon checked up on me a couple times a day and he'd left me voicemails on my phone until my phone was turned off because I wasn't paying it anymore, which I didn't have. But that's doesn't really matter now, does it? So he so Roman, and this is your boss. Yes, I would think he would somehow think, OK, this is not right.

You you just don't you people don't just disappear. Yeah, but did he feel not any real obligation other than just your employer and he feels that you just quit? I talked with them after I got away and. It was obvious that he felt very badly about what happened and he tried to get a hold of me for a couple of weeks, but at a certain point, when you leave dozens of messages, both as a boss and a friend. You just got to realize that, OK, fine, this other person must not care about or respect you as much as you thought they did, and they're ghosting you and that they've probably found something that they think is.

Way better than what you could offer them. Did you have at work did you have an emergency contact person that he could call and check on? No. Which was probably my fault, they're. Well, we'll blame it on human resources. Yeah, so there really wasn't I mean, he could go to the police, but all he knows is that you're just not returning his calls, so. I mean, there's not a lot he could have done, I guess.

Thinking back on it. I don't know if I would have thought anything different that that this guy just got another job and me as his boss, he.

Feel self-conscious and just wants to walk away, because this is some some bullshit retail job who really sticks around and who cares about two weeks notice, right?

It's retail. None of that matters. Yeah, yeah. The next kind of event that happens in this whole scenario is they abduct someone else, right? Yeah. Someone else comes into the picture.

So after I ran away and it seemed obvious that I wasn't listening, was it corroborating that the beatings and the just being locked in a room weren't. Weren't making it clear what was going on and weren't that it wasn't breaking me as what I really meant to say, but that with all this stuff going on that I wasn't breaking, they.

Ended up going out one night, I was handcuffed to the radiator and they brought back someone else, Anastasiya or Nasty, as I called her nicknames and all that, she came back with them that night and they. We're doing much the same thing as they did to me that first night beating her, she was screaming and then David came in and brought me out.

And I was told that I could make that stop, that I could. That I could end her pain and that. If I would listen and do as I was told that. That things would get a lot better for the both of us. And yes, I. I broke, I did. I did what they told me I. Walked over I. I punched her in the side, as they told me to do, and I. I removed her clothes and I sat back and watched as they took advantage of her.

So much. Mental manipulation going on here. You know, with them to make you feel like you're responsible for her pain or the stop, the discontinuing of her pain or abuse. Absolutely, I was I was told repeatedly that. She was there as a punishment for me. And yes, that kept me in line, and it was. It was the start of how things would continue for. A very long time that. That I was responsible for her, it it frankly brought us closer together as a as friends that.

We both know that. If it hadn't have been pursued by someone else, that the only thing that we have control over is. What was inside our own heads and that the best thing that we could do was. Just try to be OK. With where we found ourselves and to try to find some. To try to find light in what was going on in the good times. And yes, there there were good times and a whole lot of good times happened after she was there.

It seemed as though. As though Larry softened as a person that he was much more. It felt like he cared for us, that he cared about us, that he wanted us to be OK. That. He knew something that we didn't and was trying to make sure that we would be strong enough for. For whatever else happened in our lives. It almost sounds like he pictured the two of you as pets.

Oh, without question, he they were for his amusement. Without question, he.

Openly called me his little stray. Which carries all kinds of imagery with it, but so much of what happened was around. Control and dehumanising and. And trying to make us believe that the only thing that should be on our mind was with pleasing him. So did you see your position in here in this as. Anastasia's protector, or you were just another person caught, just like she was. It would alternate I would want to make sure that she was OK and.

And that sometimes, yes, our friendship was used against us. And that that Larry knew that simply holding the well-being of her would control me and the same was true for her. Maybe six months after we were taken. Larry even started to have us go in and run errands. I mean, there was a grocery store that was a couple miles away and one of us would be given a list and exact change for what something would cost. We would go there, get whatever he told us, bring it back.

And you'd walk there. Yes. And if. If I was late, if he thought that I. Wasn't doing, as I was told, if they were even. If they didn't have good bananas, then. Something would happen to an austere. And it meant that I. Many times are just flat out run there and run back just so that. Just so that he wouldn't think that I was late or doing something wrong and you did something wrong.

She would be punished. That's the right is the point of it. Yes, exactly. That when you tell that story with going to the store, that to me, it's like, OK, there's your opportunity.

You are out, you're by yourself. You can go to the cops. What kept you from doing that? I believed him at that point, I was even trusting him, I. I do in every way that. If I went off that, he would find me again, that if I didn't do as I was told that she would be beaten, that. That I even started to believe that maybe he was a guard and that maybe he saw everything that was going on and that maybe he.

Really was looking out for our well-being and that. That even if I got away, even if I didn't care about Nastia, even if I could just. Pretend like none of that happened. That he would still find me. I mean, that went on even after I finally got away for four years. Where? Where I simply. Couldn't go out alone, that when I would go to a restaurant or a coffee shop, that I would always need to have my back to a wall so that I could see everything that was going on, that I was always paying attention to who would come in, where people were, where the doors were, and that I.

Knew that he just wouldn't care if he made a scene that if people saw because. Because he would take me again and that there's nothing that anyone could do to stop him. That's going to be so terrifying to feel that helpless. Yeah. There were so many mind games that happened daily that were. Designed so that the only thing we could trust was him, that above all else, he was honest and that even when he lied, it felt like the truth.

Nastia became pregnant. Yes. How long into the ordeal did that happen? I can't really remember for sure it was like. Eight, nine Munsen. So you've been at this place held against your will for several months. What was your what did a typical day look like? What do you what do you do during the day? We would. Wake up at about five thirty in the morning so that we could prepare breakfast for Larry, that we could sit down at his feet while he would eat it and tell him that we really appreciated everything that he did for us and that he cared for us.

And then when he would leave for work, we would be allowed to have a nap. After that, we would wake up and clean the whole house. Absolutely everything, scrubbing the baseboards, the walls, the ceilings, bathrooms, everything to make sure that things were exactly as he wanted them and that. That he would be happy, but he also wouldn't be able to use any of those things to justify punishment. And David is supervising all of this.

Yes, in a day usually sitting in the living room watching a watching a movie and that he would keep an eye on us and that if he. If he thought something was up, he would say, you just call out, ask where we were, and we'd just say, like, I'm in the bathroom or I'm in the hall, you'd say. Just checking. And then we would get everything ready, cook dinner, have it ready, sitting on the table, waiting for Larry when he got home, and at that point we were allowed to sit down with him on the couch only time during the day when we were allowed to really be at his level and we would watch TV or movie or or listen to one of us read a book.

Family time, yes, so to speak. That's that's what it felt like, that's how it felt. Yeah, that's how it felt. At a certain time, somewhere along now is when another person is abducted.

Yes, it's just like I said at the beginning, there's so many elements to the story that are just so unreal. Tell us about Polina. Around 10 months, Munsen seemed like is getting bored, it seemed like he was falling into too much of a routine and that it was angering him. He had started going in and having a regular sleeping schedule with the both of us whenever he wanted it and that we were allowed to stay with him. The only time we were allowed to sleep in a bed, too.

But he seemed increasingly bored, upset, just. Day after day, and then he disappeared for several days where Dusty and I were. Cooking food, waking up, trying to do our routine, and he wasn't there, we didn't know what to do, and then he came back and came back with a pollina. And he immediately after bringing her in. He would instruct me to to tie her up to to show her what was expected. And. And I did it, I tied her up, I put my hands around her throat.

I. Whispered to her, it said that it was all going to be OK. And then he. And then he told me to rape her. And. That kindness that I thought I was showing her by trying to say that that she didn't need to worry about what was going on, that trust was immediately destroyed, that. But I knew that he must have hurt me or that this whole thing was a plan to.

To show that I was not on their side, that I was just as cruel and heartless as they could be and that. I couldn't be trusted that I was. That I was an extension of them, that last year was an extension of them, that what was expected was that we were to follow his instructions to the letter. And after that point, Pollina hated all of us.

She would go out of her way when we were trying to explain what was going on, what the rules were, how to keep Larry happy, how to keep the bad things from happening. And she would pretend to follow along.

And then 15 minutes before Larry gets home, she would throw something across the room and make a a huge mess, trying to make him upset, trying to make us afraid and even to go in and say that we were acting out and that that it was our fault that things. Were not as he wanted them. And would she not get punished for those things as well? Oh, she absolutely would. Especially those first few times when it's oh, this is all Tyson's fault.

He did this where she would be taken and beaten or. His favorite thing to do with her was to throw a rope around her neck and hanger, but yeah, it's it became clear that. She would be punished for our mistakes so that she started to make mistakes of her own and at that point Nasty and I were needing to watch her every moment of the day to try to make sure that she did as she was told that she couldn't sabotage us trying to avoid anything happening to her or to us or.

Or to just make things feel normal again. Normal is a very normal may not be the appropriate word in this in this scenario here, I don't think no, it's really all perspective and over time, anything can start to feel normal. It's just a question of what the routine is and having some sense of accomplishment in what you're doing of trust that. That what you're doing is appreciated. What happened the time when Larry's car got stolen? Tell us about that.

Front door was left unlocked again, the way that so many of these bad stories started and she she started off the night by. Trying to seduce Larry and to. Get close with them, have sex with him and have him let his guard down, which he did, and she being in the room with him after he went to sleep, took his car keys, she snuck out. Went out as quietly as she could when everyone else was asleep.

And then there was the sound of the car starting and of the gravel hitting these of the windows of the sunroom. And David Anastasi and I woke up immediately and ran outside in order to in order to stop her. And we just saw brake lights off in the distance. David was looking around for the keys to the to Land Rover in order to try to go after her and. Nasty and I just ran out, Polina tried to take the Lexus, just ride on up the hill in order to get to the highway and got it stuck.

So there we were trying to try to push it down the hill, get it all cleaned up and back into the driveway. And David took her back to the house and grabbed some rope and tied her naked to a tree. And this was in the middle of the night, yeah, she was cursing us a whole lot of the time. How long was she tied to the tree?

A couple of days at least. We would take her out. Food, water. She would yell, spit at us, scream, say that it was all our fault that.

That we were all just a bunch of fuckin pussies to listen to all of Larry's bullshit, to not try to get away, and that if you had any respect at all, that you would have been gone long ago. So if she hadn't gotten the car stuck, she very well may have escaped that night, the. At some point, eventually, both girls became pregnant.

Yes, that must have introduced lots of complications to the scene. Yes, it really did. And. Really, a few things it. Definitely seemed to make Larry a lot kinder, as though he didn't want for anything bad to happen to them or the beatings sure stopped at that point for all of us. But it made it much more common for him to go out drinking and bring Mike back every couple of weeks, and he Mike is a name we haven't heard yet.

How did he come into the picture?

Mike was Larry's best friend. He. He viewed himself as being a a big deal in the BDM scene and that the only way he could be turned on was by seeing someone hurt. So he would.

He would come over to scratch that itch and to. To do whatever entered his mind that he wanted to try, where he felt very strongly the concept of consent, and yet he. He do unequivocally that we. Wouldn't couldn't say no, so he would do whatever he wanted. And yeah, he started coming by a whole lot more often, and it used to be that he was only there maybe once every other month, and then he started to become a pretty regular fixture, even down to the point where he would join us for dinner some nights, then choose someone and take them out to the shed off to the side of the house.

Like the stuff of nightmares. Yeah, whenever he would show up, both Nasty and I were. We were in tears, we were so afraid of what would happen. We knew that Mike was the sort that crossed lines who maybe even didn't see them. And. Larry was the sort who would throw a noose around his neck and leave her there to dangle for a little bit. Mike was the sort who would. Tie someone to the wall. Beat their ass until they bleed, choke them and just.

The stuff he did. It scared me. The stuff that Larry did, it all felt tame and so it came from love. The last year actually had the baby, right, had her baby. Yes, she did. She had the baby and she had.

Did you go to a hospital or anything for that or. Yeah, Larry took her over to the hospital. He told her that that we were going to be back at the house and that I was going to come by in order to keep an eye on us and that he'd be calling to check in on us throughout the evening. And she went off with him, had the baby, was there for a couple of days, came back and she at least told us that she kept her mouth shut.

And afterwards, Larry had manipulated and lied to her and all those sorts of things and told her that that she would need to marry him and that if she even thought of running off of doing anything that that he would that he would take her baby, that he would either see her dead or deported or to make sure that that she would never, ever see anyone of them again and that she would never feel happiness again. Was she what was her status as a resident in the US?

She here illegally? I honestly don't know. I know that she wasn't born here. I know that I did that for sure. She was she was from Vladivostok. And she I think she probably came on a green card, but I don't know I don't know any of that stuff. Right. She wasn't a citizen, obviously, so, or deportation wouldn't have been a threat, right. So tell us about the night or the day. I don't know what time it happened when you actually were able to escape.

Larry came home from work. He had dinner. He. Told me to go to my room, which I did, and I lay down to sleep. He stormed in, it was dark outside and had his gun in his hand and. He told me that I was going to die, that either I could make him happy one last time. And that he would make it easy for me or I could fight and that he would. That he would make it something that I would beg for him to end it.

He grabbed me, threw me to the ground and. Knocked over everything that was on their. I had a chessboard on my nightstand that shattered and I fell right on top of it. He grabbed me to to pull me to my knees and. I took one of those pieces and just shoved it straight into his stomach and then got up and started running.

And this was broken glass or what was the chessboard made of marble, marble, OK. And as I say, they got up, started running. A couple of gunshots missed me and I ran to the front door, was unlocked again, and I just kept running rather than before I followed the the road, I took off into the forest to the right in order to try to take a shortcut to where the grocery store would be, to try to make sure that I wouldn't be seen if he was on the road looking for me.

I kept running, found my way to the highway, ran up. There was. Was trying to flag down people for what felt like forever and a cop finally stopped for me. He. He seemed angry that I was standing in the middle of the road and that I was trying to get myself killed.

He. Didn't seem like he believed a single word, but I said and he frisked me, put me in his car and took me out to the bus station the other end of the canyon. This whole time, I was worried about everything, about. But what was going on with Larry, if Larry is going to be OK, if minute you were worried if he was going to be OK from you mean from where you stabbed him, you were worried about his well-being.

Yeah, I know, thinking back on it, it's, yeah, the sorts of things that go through your mind, I was worrying about him. I was trying to make sure that he'd be OK. I was trying to think that if he wouldn't be, what would happen to nastier plena about how? None of the stuff that was happening seemed like it was going to be OK to be in a car driving away from them. This guy who seemed like he wouldn't even listen to a damn thing that I was saying and as though I.

So I was inconveniencing him as though he as though he would rather be doing absolutely anything else.

Well, you know, the story you were telling him was so outlandish. I could kind of understand how he wouldn't believe it, but on the other hand, you know, his job is to protect the citizens of the town there. And you were one of them. Seems like he he would need to at least investigate to see if what you were saying was true.

I can't help but feel that if I had been a woman that he would have less, that he would have cared, that he would have done something rather than rather thinking I was just nuts and I'd be doing something like taking a statement, doing something other than leaving me at that bus stop, anything at all. I mean, the thought that, the thought that. There I was in the car going the wrong direction, that we were not going back there.

We were not going to check on that, that I was. That I knew nothing of what was happening, but. That baby Larry was OK, baby, he was so angry that that he'd already killed both of them, but that any of the stuff that.

I was in tears, I was horrified, I just couldn't. I even kept thinking that all like that I, I just need to get back there, that I need to make sure that everyone, including him, were OK, that I made this horrible mistake. That may be, yes. That I should have stayed there, that I should have stabbed him, that maybe this was all just one of his games in order to play out of fantasy, maybe, maybe a thousand different things I didn't know and and that I that I shouldn't have left.

And how far away is the bus station from the house? Maybe 20 to 30 miles off to the northwest. Oh, so it was too far for you to walk back then. Yeah. So what did you do at the from the bus station?

I slept there overnight and then I, I tried to call a couple of friends who would pick up the phone because some random number, whatever else like that, they could call me back because you know, I was at a payphone using change that I found on the ground.

And at that point, yes, I started walking back to try to get my self back there. And this other car stopped for me, this woman with a. Silver dodge and that she at least drove me to the exit and I I pretended like everything was OK and that I was just stuck and needed to get home. So I got back there. I found out that that Larry David had gone that they had that after everything that happened, they left and they thought that he was at the hospital and that they didn't know what to do.

So it's just you and the girls there at the house. Yeah, and that we left, we all just kind of took off at Pollina, maybe talked to her a few times after that, where she told me just how much she hated me, you know, sort of the usual. And for Nastia that after everything that happened, she she needed to get back with him, to care for him to to just make sure that that he would be OK, that their that their son would be OK, and that she knew that it was something that she needed to do.

I went over to the police station to file a report. It's covered in bruises. Now, let me stop you for a second. How long from the time you were first abducted to you went to the police station to make a report that night? How much time had passed overall?

About a year and a half. So the report you were going to make was. About all of that, that you were, yeah, kidnapped and held against your will for a year and a half. Yeah.

That I was there, that these other girls had been taken, that all this stuff that had happened. And what I was told was that I had no proof that. Than any of it was was really a kidnapping that that I wasn't there voluntarily, that I wasn't just a roommate, that that people have all sorts of, you know, relationships just because this guy was. Being intimate with. Well, a couple different girls and a guy that not really anything against the law there, but.

I went in and stabbed him, that I was openly saying that, yes, I had did that in order to get away and that that seemed like the only thing that was actually a crime.

And that if he pressed charges that that I would be arrested, that's just another really such an oddball turn in this whole thing that it all the way it comes out is like, oh, it's just a domestic squabble and you're the one that could be arrested.

Yeah, because I would take and stab someone which, you know, aggravated assault that, you know, maybe attempted murder or who knows what. And that really it was just his word at this point. And that if he went in and said anything that that he would again have complete control over me and what happened and that. At least for quite some time, really cemented the whole he is very much still in control things, so. So, yeah, I ran away, I left the state, I went to a friend of mine who was living in advance.

And I told him that I really needed money, that. That I needed to get away, that it was that if I didn't, I was going to die. And I believed it, and he seemed like he believed it to, so he of course, now this is a friend you haven't been in contact with for at least a year and a half. Yeah, I mean, it's I met Deeter, you know, that friend in middle school, and we'd been talking and spending time together ever since I I went to concerts with him.

I stayed at his house so many times. So he was the obvious one to call then.

Yeah.

He jokingly even said that his parents loved me a whole lot more than they loved him. But I mean, I, I was really close with all of them.

Did you tell him the whole story? No, no, not for years.

So when you called him, you were just in a bad spot. You need some quick help?

Yeah, I knew in my mind that if I told anyone else what happened, that Larry would come after them, that he would hurt them, that he would do to them what he did to me or I don't even know what I mean. All manner of justifications of of everything made. Because at that point, yeah, I, I was really drinking the Kool-Aid and I was believing every word that he said.

So you went you were able to go and stay with this friend? Oh no, I didn't stay with them. He bought me a train ticket to go and hop the Amtrak. And I went out to Denver for a little while and I had a a few hundred bucks there and that was that. I had tried to go by the house for my family will now be used to live and it was up for sale. No one was there at Deeter to have any idea where they were, just that I guess they moved.

So, yeah, I so you didn't know where your parents were then? Now what? I finally got in touch with them. They I told them what happened about all this and. The only thing that that my I've received here was that I was in a homosexual relationship with this guy and that not only that, I allowed him to to beat me and. And I didn't raise someone to be gay. I didn't raise someone to be abused and I did raise someone to do this.

And do you have any idea what this means to me, what this means for me, how this makes me look, you know, being her at this point.

So it was all about the appearances of what people would think of her if this all came out and they disowned me. They didn't want anything to do with me. They wouldn't take my phone calls. My sister would even go around telling people that she was an only child. So I had to have them to turn to.

I just I can't imagine the feeling of such being alone. I mean, typically, if something happens. You break off from friends or whatever you think, well, at least I've got my family to go back to, but that wasn't even an option, right? I kept feeling that I shouldn't have left, that things were going to be OK, that maybe I could even go back.

Maybe he'd forgive me.

And then I. Me not having any friends, just. Went in and got another job and was trying to support myself and staying as far away from everyone as I could to basically just throw myself into my work, work longer and harder than anyone else and to.

Feel as though I was irreplaceable there, simply so that I would have some sort of safety net so that someone would know me, remember me, that I just couldn't be taken again. But also making sure that along with all that, the complete contrary view of being completely forgettable, not being someone's friend or just being this really, really good guy at work that took years to be able to to just find enough trust to to call someone a friend, even though I view them more as acquaintances and kept them off of the distance and would view it more as an eyeball.

I'm there for you, but I am not going to tell you shit. You're not going to know anything about me. I'm going to keep it all really superficial and sounding incredibly boring to the point that none of them could in any way feel bad or self-conscious or worrying about, you know, whatever, and that somewhere in that process they would.

They would be someone that I could get close to over time and that they would view me as a friend that had to count for something, even though I wouldn't even begin to trust them. Have you gone through?

Have you gotten counseling or therapy?

Oh, yeah. I think six years at this point. It's, uh, it feels like it's been helpful. I mean, what it's now at the point that I can talk to people.

I have some friends. I am even married.

That's getting close to someone. Yeah, that is true. It was really hard for quite a long time to just to feel as though I could open up to someone that I could that I could be OK being me, that I could be OK just being around them, that I could be OK. Having them in the same room as me and not be afraid any time that I hear someone make a noise, the floor creak, say something. What?

I wasn't expecting it.

What I feel hearing this from you is respect just to be able to talk about this and, you know, recount this incredibly horrible situation that happened to be able to I mean, that's obviously a lot of that's a lot of progress for you to be able to, you know, to be able to do this.

But it took a while, though, without question.

It was it was very hard for quite some time when I wanted to try to forget it, where I wanted to try to pretend that it didn't exist, and yet where it defined so much about me, where were if I were going somewhere and felt like there was even a chance that I might be staying overnight or need to sleep, that there I needed to like. Take my own blankets with me just so that I could feel some sense of normalcy, that I could be able to touch them and know that while being there in the dark, that I am not just waking up from some fantasy and finding myself back there.

Know you want to know that everything is still OK. Yeah. Have you had any contact with the girls since then?

Yeah, I've, I've been speaking with Nastia maybe once or twice a year since then. So I know that a couple of years ago she ended up getting her citizenship and then finally leaving, Larry, that she was able to basically destroy any trust or credibility that he had as a person getting fired from his job and ostracized from his friends, and that now she feels like her life is finally back on track, where she's putting herself into creative things like a ETSI clothing style stuff and caring for her son.

It's no longer even thought of, even for a moment, that he's theirs and as though she could kind of get on with her life and be OK. And I've been trying to do the same, too.

I'm imagining that the day when her son is old enough to. So tell me about Dad. What was he like? That's going to be a very difficult conversation, I'm sure.

Without question, I. I haven't even thought about that. And what about Paulina? Do you hear from Hertel? Oh, she didn't like you.

She's not going to she's not going to contact you. Yeah, I'd maybe spoken with her twice since this all happened and D'Astier as well, she basically just cut us completely out of her life. What is your life like today?

Well, I married. I try to go in and be someone that people can trust and look up to and to really do a good job at work may no longer be the irreplaceable one going in and making friends, spending time with them every once in a while, trying to do game nights. I have some poodles now that are a huge part of my life.

Dogs are incredible therapy. Yeah. And you have your emergency contact information on the phone.

Yeah, I've made sure that one for the past few years. Well, it seems like you've obviously made a whole lot of progress.

Yeah. I mean, there's still the there's still the time that I need to run off and collect my thoughts in my closet where I can make the world a little smaller and easier to tackle. And I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to break away from that. I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to go somewhere and spend the night without my blanket. I mean, even as I'm talking to you and everything, I.

I have it right here. You know, some sort of miscellaneous item to remind myself of where I am and that I'm OK.

There's something about a blanket, you know. I mean, obviously, that's very common with kids especially.

But it's just that that sense of security, I mean, that's why it's called a security blanket.

Yes, absolutely.

I feel that it's important for people to know that that when in abusive situations and this definitely was that that it's OK to to question things and to feel like like it's OK to matter.

Like you you were allowed to have a say in these situations that I I keep wondering so many times if if I would have been there now and if I would have done anything different. And I want to believe that I will because I've grown from it. But the only thing I really do know for sure is that I know now how much I need to trust and respect myself and that remembering to trust yourself is probably the most important part to being able to let go of the past and try to.

It to try to even just be OK, making a plan for the future and the future is where your hope is. Sounds like you've got a future to look forward to now. Yeah, I mean, the future isn't just about where I want to be in five years. It's about being OK expressing that that I want to go out for sushi and I want to do that tomorrow. It's about knowing that that tomorrow is good enough to plan for and to know that no matter what happens today, it's really not that bad and that I shouldn't spend all my time worrying about it.

Because here I've accomplished so many things here. I've been through so much that no matter how bad today is that that I've already been through a whole lot worse. So this can't really be all that bad. You're able to handle it. Yeah. Just smile and figure it out, it's a good outlook, Tyson, I appreciate you sharing your story. I hope you continue to do well. Maitland and thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode, Michael, for each show is to introduce you to people and stories that you just won't find on other podcasts.

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