I've got some new tour dates to announce. I'm excited to say we will be going to the Australia. That is going to be Alclon, New Zealand. That's February 23rd, Gold Coast in the Australia on February 29, Brisbane, in the Australia. March second, Melbourne; on March fifth, and Sydney in March eighth, both of those in the Australia. Presale starts Thursday, December 14th at 10:00 AM local time. Over there with code Rat King, general on sale begins Friday, December 15th at 10:00 AM local time. We also have tickets remaining for Charlottesville, VA, Raleigh, North Carolina, Colombia, South Carolina State College PA, Syracuse, NY, and Amherst. We will also be looking to add some shows over there in you know where the Australia are. All tickets are available at theauvon. Com/tour. Also, if the tickets get overpriced, just wait. Don't waste your money on these secondary sites. We will add a date or we'll come back. Just thankful, grateful to get to bring the show and have people see it, man. I can't even believe it. In't thank you guys for being a part of this journey with me. Praise God, baby gang. Today's guest is an artist.

She's a tattoo artist. She is a musician and she's a unique witty, a unique person in the world. She's a Christian and she's just had quite a journey in life as we all have. We're grateful to sit down with her today. Today's guest is my friend, Ms. Kat Van Dee.

I'm a singer. I'm a singer. I'm a singer.

I'm a singer. I'm a singer. I'm a singer. I'm a singer.

I've been.

Singing- I'm going.

To go to the grocery store. I'm fine.

Those are to go... Do you want to pull the mic up? Are you okay with that? Yeah, whatever you- That's okay. You're going to the grocery store in those?

No, I don't go to the grocery store.

I can't even. I mean, maybe like on Neptune or something I feel like. I don't know how. I wonder if they would even if I were at the grocery store, I don't know if I would let you in. I think it almost looks like you're shopping. We don't.

Have to wear glasses, by the way.

No, we can take them off. I just I know that you walked in with these, and I was like, Wow. I feel like that was virtual reality before they had virtual reality, I guess. Well, yeah, because if you have dark glasses, I feel like then... The reality was virtual because it almost seems like when you have glasses on, that the world is a little bit separate from you.

Yeah, I mean, when I walk around with these, I can stare at people and I don't feel bad about it because I can't see it.

I don't know. Yeah, because they're skiing by you, probably. I would assume that's probably... I really was. No, but you always look so stylish, and so that's why I wore this nice jacket, too.

-that is nice. -thank you.

But yeah, we can take them off if that's okay with you. Yeah, sure. They look really neat. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's a pleasure. It's really cool. I've known about you for a long time. Sorry if I seem a little bit rat or I end up watching a movie real late yesterday. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I was watching... Well, it's holiday time. I know, so I was watching Family Man. That's my favorite.

Christmas movie. Okay.

Have you seen it?

No. Really? No. My son's on a Home Alone kick right now. Yeah, he really loves Harry and Marve.

Yeah.

To hear his little voice say like, I love Marve. I'm just like, This is the cutest thing ever.

Yeah, I mean, it also shows he might be likely be considering crime, I think, because Marve, they're the wet Bandits, right? Yeah.

I think it's the Tom and Jerry situation where he laughs at somebody falling.

Oh, yeah. I was watching that sequence the other day, and it's so funny when he sets the little race cars. And then I just love how they don't get deterred, though. They keep trying to get into the house and do the dumbest stuff. I wonder if people like Harry or Marv more.

I don't know.

I don't know. Harry was the lovable one. Yeah, that's Daniel Stern right there.

He was the-I'm a huge Joe Peshi fan. You are? Yeah, I think my cousin Vinny is one of my favorite. My cousin Vinny, it feels like, is my life currently. Oh, really? Yeah, because my husband and I... I mean, my husband doesn't look like Joe Peshi, but he dresses like him in that movie with the cowboy boots and the black leather.

Oh, yeah, like an Uber driver in Tulsa.

I don't know. But we ended up...

Oh, there's your husband and kid right there. Yeah. They're so handsome.

Thanks. But we ended up moving to Indiana in the middle of nowhere. It's like, weirdly fish out of water, but not really. I really do feel like we belong there. I always think about my cousin, Vinny's scenario.

Yeah, because he was in a rural area, wasn't he? Yeah. Yeah, that movie was good. You all like Family Man. Do you have a favorite Christmas movie?

I don't think so. I like Nightmare Before Christmas. I guess. It's the token, Goth Christmas movie.

I don't know. Yeah, I think after... What's that movie? What's the thing that all the Goth people do in town? I used to go to it sometimes.

Rocky horror picture show. Oh, yeah.

Or is that a Goth.

Thing or is that not? I think it's like a theater kid thing. I don't know. That's what it is. Yeah.

Sometimes the Goth kids would always get grouped in with that. I remember people would drive by them sometimes and be like, Yeah, have fun at Rocky horror picture show. They'd be like, What? So maybe.

That's just-No one's yelled that at me before.

Yeah, did you see McCauley Colcom was just on the news yesterday? Yeah, he got a star.

He got a star. Yeah. I don't know why that made me so happy. I don't know why it took that long, I guess. He's like the most iconic child actor, right? Yeah.

If you think about it. Oh, yeah, I think so. I try not to think about children much because if I don't, just for checks and balances and all. But yeah, I love... Yeah, he was the best. It was interesting. Kind of listen, did you see a speech that.

He made. No, but I saw Catherine O'Hare was there, and I love that support. It was so cool.

Yeah, it was really sweet. Right. Yeah, I think of that a lot about childhood actors, like how... Can you play it real quick? You can find it on Twitter. It was interesting just because of growing up in Los Angeles. It seems really scary place. The entertainment industry seems like a really uncomfortable place to grow up in. But yeah, thanks for coming in, Kat Bondi. Really nice to see you today. Just so for some of my viewers that don't know, right? I know that you are an artist and a tattoo artist and an entrepreneur. Thanks. People would know you a lot from L. A. Inc, and from a lot of your tattoo work and that whole universe, right? Totally. Is that fair to say?

Sure, yeah. I think a lot of people know me from the tattoo world and the tattoo TV shows that I used to be on and stuff. Then I've done a lot of things along the way.

Nice. Now you've moved out of Los Angeles, right? Recently, yeah. Yeah.

How long did you move out? Well, I bought a house about two or three years ago in the middle of nowhere in Indiana. It was really about the house. I mean, it was about a lot of things. There's a lot of reasons behind making such an extreme move. But I love restoring old Victorian houses. In L. A, I used to have a house that was built in 1890, and this one was built in 1874, so it's a second empire-style Victorian home. It was operating as a bed and breakfast for, I think, a few decades. My husband and I, when all the lockdown stuff started happening in California, we just saw a lot of different facet to where we called home and we just didn't feel connected anymore. We didn't really want to be there anymore. We looked up rural towns in different states. I feel like no one knows where this town is. Even my friends in Indiana have never heard of it. That was a really good sign. We were like, Let's find a place where we can be left alone. We went there and we loved it. People say it's haunted, but I haven't experienced that.

Well, it's haunted by you now, it sounds like, because if it wasn't haunted, I feel like now it's got its chance. But also 1874, that is so crazy, especially in Indiana. In Indiana, I think, had a lot of like, I don't know if they had slave stuff.

Up there. Actually, our house was built by Benjamin Franklin-Shank, and he was the haymaker of the town. His family made hay and they also owned a lot of the steamboats. Oh, wow. It's called Switzerland County because a lot of the original settlers were from Switzerland. What's really cool about the Schank family is that there's actually underground tunnels that connected underneath our house. They were pretty big advocates for.

Helping out.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

The underground railroad stop there, that's cool. Yeah. I think I could see you being in a place that the Underground Railroad at stop through and hoger, it's probably passed through it. Definitely a thorough.

I love getting pigeonholed right now. I love it. I love it.

It's good. The only way I know how to accept things in the world is to.

Pigeonhole them, I think.

Was it tough choosing? Because that sounds like almost so much fun, like once you guys made that decision, was it hard to make that decision to leave Los Angeles? No. Yeah.

It was almost overnight, too. We were just like, We got to get out of here. We have a son, too, and I think a little bit of what you were talking about before. There's pros and cons to everywhere you live. I think LA has some really beautiful things about it. I love my friends. I think LA has the best food in this country, to be honest, but it's just my own opinion- Yeah. -and I like the pretty things. I think there's nice... Where I'm at, there's no sidewalks. We just have a lot of dirt roads. There's no billboards, there's no Uber, no delivery services. We have one stoplight and a gas station. I don't know, I prefer the latter. But I go to L. A. A lot because we still have like, I make music. My husband is a musician as well, so we fly back out a lot. All of our producer friends and stuff are there. Oh, nice.

When you say of how it was interesting, once you made the choice, that was the same for me. I've been living in Los Angeles for maybe 16 years, I think. I still have my apartment there, just because it's cheaper than going and even getting a hotel for when I do go back. Yeah, totally.

I know when I go out there now, I stay with Charo. She's my best friend, and she's nice enough to give us a little room in the back of her house. I look forward to it. I feel like being able to see my friends and stuff, but I also look forward to escaping and just having a safe haven.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. Once I made the decision, there was actually a friend that said, You should move to Nashville. I was like, That's so weird. I talked to a friend of mine about it, an old friend of mine, and he's like, Dude, you used to talk about that when we lived.

About.

Moving to Nashville? Yeah. When we lived together, they used to talk about that all the time. I was like, Really? I don't remember it, but I was like, Yeah. Then I came here and before I knew it, I had moved and I was like, Oh, my gosh. I always thought it was so scary to be able to leave Los Angeles for some reason. There's something you're letting go of or giving up on, but it's only been like a gift, I think.

Yeah. Do you mean because of the entertainment industry or something?

I think that maybe that's it. I don't know. I don't know. There's nothing really... I decided there's nothing really that I want out of Hollywood, really, which I think is why I'm grateful that there is a thing called that you can do podcast, or you can do your own stuff, and you can do stand-up comedy where you don't really have to have Hollywood involved, really, these days. What did you ask me? I'm sorry, Kat.

I don't know. I don't think I asked you anything.

Oh, damn. That's where I live right there. People were like, I said I was going to be talking. People were like, Dude, who are you talking to? Did you ask me something? I'm like, You're not, dude. They're like, I don't even know you. I'm like, All right. I'm just going to go get my car and leave then. But I think- But it was interesting. Oh, just moving and making that choice and suddenly being somewhere. Did you guys look at, because you seem like you go to some realms on Zillow that the rest of us aren't allowed into. True. I feel like you probably gotten some passwords.

Well, it's funny because my real estate lady in L. A. Would always laugh because I'm just like, Hey, let me know if anything interesting or obscure comes up. It would be just some of the weirdest. I know all the castles in L. A. There's not that many, but I used to live in one. But yeah, just interesting. Yeah, you're right.

There are some- Oh, yeah, I think definitely if anything has had a missing person in it or just like a found femur.

Maybe somewhere in a place. I mean, one time I saw the Unibomber had his little shack in, was Oklahoma, right?

Yeah, he had- In.

Oklahoma City. That was for sale. I was like, Who would... It was in the middle of the forest. I saw that one for sale ones.

You're like, Who would buy that? And then you send it to your husband. You're like, What do you think, babe? I don't know. I mean, but yeah, people, some stuff is collectors items.

But yet you guys-It's interesting because I always say your idea of a good time is my idea of a nightmare and vice versa. I feel like you look at these houses that to me, I love the historical aspect and preserving things of the past. I like the human fingerprint of art in general. I have friends that are into the complete opposite. They love the modern stuff or even 1950s or Art Deco, some of that stuff. It's cool. But to me, I feel like I want every corner to feel like somebody dedicated their lifetime to it. Wow. I appreciate that a lot. I like conserving that and restoring it. But then some people would look at it and be like, Let's tear it down.

Yeah, I think that happens a lot. You seem like somebody that would have crown molding in the top of their mouth probably. Yeah. You seem definitely like you just are really ornate. I don't know if is the word.

Yeah, ornate is a wonderful word. Ornate, yeah.

I'm not trying to judge you, but I'm just judging you out loud and clearly. That's funny. I never thought about that. I always like to pitch it. I put people in little spaces that makes it feel man. I don't know if it makes it feel manageable. I never thought about that before.

I like it. To me, it makes life a lot simple, more simple because I don't know, I only wear black. I know it's a choice. I just like it. I remember the day that it happened. I had these beautiful dresses that I had accumulated over the years, they were really colorful. I was like, I'm just never going to wear them. Why am I kidding myself? I just gave everything away and I simplified everything. Now I just wear black. I pigeonholed myself into this gothy corner, I guess.

I like to wear black when I do stand-up comedy because I don't like to make a lot of choices. Like, even this today for me was making it... This took a long time to figure out. I don't know. I don't like making a lot of choices. Did you guys look at some other places when you were looking for your home? Because 1870, I mean, that's an old place.

Yeah, it is. We were looking at different states. I think Indiana was appealing to me because I saw the mass exodus of California happening and everybody was moving to Texas and Nashville. I don't know what the other places were that they were... I think those two are some Nevada, I guess. I just wanted to get away from as much as I could from the California mentality in general. I was like, Indiana seems safe. No one's going there. But yeah. Wow. That's cool. Our little town is cool because it's right on the Ohio River. The houses along the river are the prettiest because they're, I don't know.

I guess- Yeah, because you got to have money to live by.

The water, usually. Yeah. Then we have our little main street and it's just like our downtown or whatever is literally one block long. Then in between that and where my house is on the hill, it's like houses that could use a lot of love. I just felt like no one's going to move here. Okay, so you're from in California, you're like Silver Lake and Echo Park. I was around when that was just super ghetto. Nobody in the right mind would move there. It was actually quite dangerous in some areas. Now it's like good luck finding a tiny place for less than $1.2 million. I feel like I've bought myself a lot of time finding a place that's not going to get- Changed.

Yeah.

I don't want, you know.

Yeah, you wanted to get as far away from that as possible. Yeah. Interesting. What were some scary parts about moving into a house that old? What are things that people do not think about, I guess? Because that's old, bro. That's pretty old. 1874, you can't even really get much hold of that. I don't think they.

Had wood before then. I feel like not America. There are some houses from the late one, seven, hundreds, I guess.

But-i don't know. When did people start using wood to build houses? It's because at some point we evolved probably.

From-it's a regional thing, really, because on the East Coast, you don't have earthquakes, so you can have a lot more bricks. Oh, it's true. Yeah.

What's the most popular piece of house-building material?

Well, it's expensive now just because of inflation and everything.

Oh, yeah, these days. Dang. It is thought the first wooden structure was built over 10,000 years ago. Europe's Neolithic longhouse constructed in around 5,000 and 6,000 BC, and is an example of one of the earliest freestanding timber dwellings, huh? So wow, 5,000, 6,000 BC. So that's like almost 8,000 years ago. Yeah. Wow. But I guess it makes sense, dude. If you're standing around and you're cold or something and they got a lot of sticks around, if you don't do something, you're an idiot. I think no offense to whoever that guy is, but you got to figure it out, dude. There's only so long you can just go like this before you try to change the game. Oh, and the most common building material in the world is concrete. Wow. It's the most widely used building material in the world making it a good starting material to get to know. What did you guys have to do to the home when you got there?

We're actually still renovating it right now. Actually, we don't live in it yet because there's just so much work having to redo a house like that. We live actually at our church's pasonage. The pastor from our church lives in Louisville. Him and his wife, they drive up every Sunday. They were like, Hey, there's just no place to rent out there. There's literally no people. People live there forever, and then they pass it down or sell or whatever. When we first moved out here, we're like, man, where are we going to live? Then they were just so nice enough to let us.

Stay there. Oh, that's nice to them. Yeah, right. Yes, you were in a place where there's not even really a real estate market. Yeah, if you say there's no Ubers. Yeah. I was in a town recently, and I couldn't get an Uber at night. It was like, what? It's a busy, but it was like, I guess everywhere doesn't really have it.

Yeah, not where we're at.

Yeah. What have been some neat things about being out there?

Well, I homeschool my son. I like that Indiana has, they're very supportive. The state of Indiana is very supportive to homeschool families and stuff. So that was a very big selling point for us.

Why is it hard to do? Is there a lot of regulation?

Some states in different places have different... Yeah. So to me, I'm like, the less government, the better. So I was like, that's one of the perks of the state of Indiana. My son just turned five last week, so we're getting ready to.

Start-first grade? Yeah.

I know it's so cool.

Wow. And so do you have to redesign the room, like the learning room or whatever each year to make the grade seem different?

I don't know. Right now we're not doing crazy curriculum because he's just turned five. But once we get into the house, I do plan on having a little school room area. But that's the cool thing about homeschooling is that you can teach anywhere, really. I feel like the idea of putting your kid in a school or a classroom setting, I think people are tending to steer away from that in a lot of places. Yeah.

Well, some of it starts to feel dangerous, too. It seems like there's a lot of violence in schools. In school? Yeah. It seems really like... But I don't know, maybe that's just like the algorithm for some reason sends me those videos sometimes, but it seems like there's a lot of violence in schools. But I don't know, that's one of the reasons why I chose to live in Tennessee. In Nashville, it's very safe here. It's super safe. Yeah. And... Yeah, but I don't go to school anymore, so I don't know what.

It's like really. Yeah, same. I didn't go to school.

You didn't?

I started tattooing when I was 14 years old. And then I remember the first time I ever did a tattoo, I'm like, This is what I want to do. I just knew it in my heart. And so I was like, Why would I spend so much time in school when I don't need to? Not that I would condone people dropping out or anything like that, but it worked.

For me. Oh, people will do it without you.

Condoning them. I know.

A lot of people are just don't like it or they're not even smart and they don't like it. Your family started in... Because you're from another country. Your family is from another country.

Yeah. My family is from South America, from Argentina, and I was born in Mexico, and then I moved here in the '80s.

What were they doing there?

My dad was a missionary for the church. He's a long line of missionary doctors. He was building hospitals and little Pueblitos that didn't have hospitals. Then me and my siblings were born there. It was pretty cool upbringing. I loved it. We came from nothing, literally nothing. Really? Yeah. We had dirt floors and no running water. It was like truly third world. Wow. It's cool. You're from Nicaragua?

My father's from there. My grandfather, I guess, was a missionary. Oh, really? Yeah, and they were down in Nicaragua, and that's where my dad was born, because that's where my grandfather, I guess, met his wife or something. Then that's where my dad was born at. He grew up there. He used to tell me stories about kids in his village that would eat dirt, actually, and they didn't have anything to eat, and they would eat dirt, and their stomachs would get distended and stuff. He would tell me some crazy stories. But yeah, that's interesting that they were missionaries down there as well. Then your family moved up to America?

Yeah, we came up through Texas and then moved to a little town in Southern California called Loma Linda.

When you say came up through, what are we talking about?

Like driving. We just drove through. I didn't have my papers yet because I was underage.

I was going to say if the D stands for deportation.

No, I wasn't in the trunk or anything like that right now.

It would have been so you to be in the trunk, though, I feel like I'd be in some mysterious compartment.

Is the reason I look like this now?

You're like, This is the closest thing I can find to a coffin. Hey, this coffin's got a tire in it.

That's.

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What was it like? Yeah, I mean, it was pretty modest upbringings. I went to church a bunch. We didn't have a lot of money, but my dad and mom, they had a piano. And so all of us were classically trained in piano since I was five. I've always loved music. Music has always been my biggest passion. I like classical music because that's what I was brought up on. But now I make more electronic, synthwave '80s style music.

Oh.

Sweet. Yeah. My childhood was good. I have two siblings who I don't talk to anymore. They actually live in this state here.

Really? Yeah. You don't talk to them?

Uh-uh. No way. They have no interest in it.

Really? Yeah.

Wow. Wish them well, though. Yeah.

I have one that we don't really talk much anymore. It's weird, huh?

Yeah, it's strange. Yeah, family is funny.

I think it's interesting because it feels like a lot of responsibility, but it also feels like the only people that maybe will have a lot of the same insights that shared some common information, I guess, or shared some common experiences. I don't know. I think a family is something you really have to build and has to be put together pretty well by the parents a lot of times.

Yeah, I can watch a movie and I see people who are close to their moms or their siblings, and I can understand it, but I can't really relate as much. I probably will sound a little bit cold, but I just feel that you feel a sense of obligation because you're related to somebody by blood. But I think it's the opposite, or what you said, where you have to work at it if you really want it to be a good relationship, like any relationship. But I look at my husband's family and they're just so cool and so warm and welcoming. I'm like, Oh, I don't have that. That's okay.

Was it just... Because I think about family stuff a lot. I think about that stuff and how does it affect you as you get older and stuff.

I'm really close with my dad, and I'm trying to talk him into moving out with us. Oh, really? Yeah, that would be my dream if my dad could live on the same land with us.

Does he have a cool Spanish name?

Like his real name?

Central American name or no?

His name is René.

Oh, René. It's like a painter.

René Carlos.

Oh, yeah, he's in, dude. Yeah. Oh, I'll buy. Look, I'll buy a 28 by 12 from him. It's a unique shape for our butt. I'll take it. Yeah, René Carlos. Oh, for sure. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, I think if you're Spanish, you can have a little bit of a woman's name and it lets you slide more.

Yeah. I feel like there's probably a lot of Italian Renes, right?

Yeah.

For sure. Yeah.

Yeah, they definitely get away with being a little bit more of a woman in the name.

My dad's the opposite of that. He looks like a 1950s boxer. Oh, he does? Yeah.

Dude, yeah, because if I was like, Yeah, this is my buddy, Sarah, right here, a lot of dudes would... People wouldn't be as accepting, I don't think, in America. Yeah. You're a life now, so you moved out to Indiana. You lived there. Oh, one neat thing I saw on your Instagram was you have this pretty crazy tulip garden. Did you just throw it yet?

There's this plot of land right in front of my house. People know where I live. Once they found out that I bought the property, it was in the news and stuff. Also, the Schank mansion is famous on its own because of all the supposed haunting. I haven't seen anything, but.

What are you squinting at me? No, I'm just thinking of what it's going to be like when the ghosts.

Show up over there. I've never seen a ghost, and I'm not saying that I have tons of friends that have solid, stable people and they have seen things and experiencing things. I just personally haven't. So it's hard for me to, I.

Don't know. But you don't believe in ghosts, you think? Well, I.

Don't know if I necessarily don't believe in it. I think I just haven't experienced anything. Also I've lived in old houses, so they make noises all the time. I think that a lot of people want to experience it. That's why they have haunted tours and things like that. But I don't know, I just feel like I haven't seen it.

Yeah, people want there to be somebody else. I think some people are lonely, too, and so they want a ghost to be around.

There was this these two guys that when I bought the house because I Googled the house to see if there's anything that came up. On YouTube, there was a house tour that these guys did. They rented out the bed and breakfast, but I don't know if they told them they were going to film. They were just dressed, I don't want to say goth, but just older gentlemen. They were just really wanting to catch some abnormal activity, and it's so bad. It was like dust in the air, and they're like, Did you see the orb? And it's like, There's nothing there. But I don't know. I haven't experienced anything there, but.

The shank mansion, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. I was to the store in 2000 and operated in a bed and breakfast is listed in the National Register of Historic Places in 2002.

Oh, look, it says that I bought it.

That's.

Cool. Yeah. Back to the Tulip thing. There's this plot of land that's right outside our gate, and it's just grass. The lady who sold me the house, she owns it, my friend Lisa. I hit Lisa up and I was like, Hey, look, I got a bunch of tulips, and I thought it would be cool just to bring something to the community, because people are coming here to take pictures anyway, so why not I give them something really cool to look at? I got 10,000 black tulips. I thought this is going to be an enormous field of black tulips.

Yeah, V. T.

M, bro. Because 10,000 is a lot. Then we did the math and the square footage is like, It's not that big. I feel like it's maybe twice the size of this room.

The.

What? The 10,000.

Of them. Oh, that's all it makes?

Yeah, because you plant them about 3-4 inches apart. I guess.

They don't want to be far away from each other.

Yeah, so we'll see. We should.

Have got plants that were a little bit more like-.

Spread out?

Yeah, or just like they're cool with doing their own thing. I mean, apparently, tulips are like, I guess they get lonesome or whatever, or whatever it's called. I don't know what that would be like as a flower. Yeah.

We'll see. We have wildlife out there, and everybody in my Instagram was like, Be careful because the squirrels are going to eat. They're going to dig them up or the mole. We're hoping that by the time spring comes, they don't eat.

All of them. Dude, if you had an only fans of you just fighting moles, I think a lot of people will subscribe to it. I think you get a lot of the hunting audience.

How do you fight a.

Mole, though? I don't know. It's up to you, I think. But I think it would just be pretty fascinating to watch. Do you feel different being out of L. A? What does that feel like? Were you done with entertainment? I mean, you've had a neat career and at least gotten to experience certain things. That's one thing about having a different opportunity. Sometimes at least you get to experience what it's like. Whether it was grade or you didn't like it, you get experience.

Yeah, I haven't retired yet, so I feel like... Like you said, the beauty of being able to create and do things, you don't necessarily have to be in L. A. Anymore. I think before you used to, I feel like you had to live in L. A. If you wanted to do things. But now it's like, I make music, so I could do that from my house or I could fly in and record. I don't necessarily have to live in Hollywood anymore.

Yeah, that's nice.

Yeah.

What else can we think about?

Did you know that in the state of Indiana, it's illegal to own a squirrel? I found this out because my son found a little baby squirrel that had fallen out of a tree. It happens a lot, like squirrels fall out of trees and stuff. This one was like, barely breathing and really dehydrated. I used to work at the California Wildlife Center back in California. Rehabilitating squirrels is pretty easy. It's not like an owl or something.

Do you need two hands to do it or do you can do it with one hand? You probably need two hands to do it on.

Yeah, too, because you have to feed them with this little syringe thing. We rehabilitated, my son named him Lucky. He's the cutest thing ever. Then I got baptized, and then I got a bunch of criticism about this baptism video. I had to make this. I didn't have to. I was inspired to make a video calling out judgmental Christians or whatever. In that video, Lucky is just flying behind me. He's just running around. And somebody saw him and reported me to the animal control. The guy showed up with a gun and everything was like, Hey, do you guys have a squirrel? You can't have one, so we're going to have to take it. I'm like.

They put him in cuffs? No. No.

I asked the guy, I was like, Are you going to euthanize him? Because I know that's what you guys do. You're not going to house him. They're like, Yeah, it's going to get euthanized.

No, are you kidding me? They took him out of a warm home.

No, of course, they didn't take him. Oh, you kept him. I lied and I told them I'm going to release him next day. Oh, cool. Then we made a little Instagram video.

Of him leaving? Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to tell anybody if he came.

Back or not.

Yeah, you got it. Lucky lives elsewhere. Wow, dude.

That's incredible. Who would do that?

That's crazy.

It's so cruel.

Well, it's just also just the weird how legislation is so obtuse from like... There's no intricacies a lot of times with laws and rules. It's just for this general thing. They don't have any room to bend a lot of these guys who come to, you know. They're just trying to do whatever.

The-no, I was just more confused by who in their right mind would be like, Oh, let me go and- Report a squirrel. Yeah, a baby squirrel.

Yeah, I would feel so perverted, even reporting it. Or I would just be like, Hey, imagine that call. Like, Hey, I'm not trying to be a snitch or whatever, like a branch snitch or whatever. But I'm going to be, yeah. But there's a cat, Mondi as a squirrel. Dude, they should, you know how they release that bodycam footage? They have to release that call. That call, you should remix a beat to that call, and that.

You should make-I wish they did have bodycam.

-one of the best house songs to ever do. Get Mondi as a squirrel.

Well, the best was my husband that opened the door, and he was topless, and he's fully tattooed with the squirrel on his shoulder.

Oh, well, then that didn't help. Yeah. People are trying to get this animal in M. Squirl 13 over here. There's not this bad stuff, but we're like, What's going on out here. Yes, so how did your journey go to, I don't know if I want to call it a journey, but what role has religion played in your life and stuff? Because I think we're at a time in the world. I think we're always at a time in the world, but I think it feels like a lot of people are looking for something that makes sense more. I feel like we're getting exhausted by the truth that a lot of the things that we feel like will make us feel good aren't doing it. I feel like that a lot of times. But yeah, what has some of that experience been like? I mean, if you got baptized, they really... And was it like... What are they doing in? What are they baptizing in?

Water.

Oh, yeah. Good. Oh, here's your video right here.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, it's prettythere, huh? Yeah.

I'm a friend of God, Dr. Ruckeberg.

Upon your.

Profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and.

In obedience to his.

Divine command.

I baptize you, my sister in.

The name of the Father, and the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit, Amen.

Oh, congratulations.

Thanks. I still get teary-eyed when I see that.

That's cool. It's powerful.

Yeah.

Yeah. What is that like in your life?

Yeah. What's it like?

How did you get there? Because I think a lot of people are lost. I feel lost a lot of times. I think a lot of us feel that way. How did you do that? And so how do you feel like you solved like you're lost?

Well, I mean...

Or is that even a fair question?

I don't know. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I was brought up with Christianity in my childhood, and then I strayed. In a nutshell, I just, in the last five years, have made my way back and have a different understanding than maybe when I was a kid. Because I think when you're a kid, you're like, or at least for me, it was like, we just go to church because that's what we have to do. I didn't have actual profound questions that I want answered like I do now. I think as an adult, you get to have a different understanding of that. That's how I, in a weird artsy way, just came back. The last five years have just been studying the Bible. Now at this church, we have our Women's Bible study and stuff that I attend.

You guys have a meeting you go to, right? I watched another podcast that you were on.

Oh, yeah.

I heard you talk about it anyway that you guys have a Bible study each week?

Yeah. I think I'm going to always have questions and continue to want to learn and have deeper understandings of things. But in that podcast that you probably watched, like I talk about a little bit what you said. It's like we're trying to find meaning or want to feel again. I think there's a lot of temporary fixes. I was an addict, and I'll have a 17-year sober in July. Wow. I think I feel like those are all things that lead you in that direction. I think it's such an intimate and personal thing. My relationship with God is my own, and I've never really felt like I belonged anywhere, especially now, I think. Being public with my faith puts you into this microscopic, critical tank. I get criticized from all sides now, which I don't care because at the end of the day, my relationship's with God, not you. Right. But it is interesting. I feel like now it just becomes funny, some of the comments I get. I think because people have a hard time understanding the esthetic and pairing that with.

Something, which is- Your esthetic? What did you mean? Yeah. Right, the ambiance of you and then.

Pairing it. In Christianity. And it's so silly to me. I don't understand how people don't see how close-minded that is. Why would you think that you have to look a certain way to have an understanding of the Bible? Yeah. Or, you know.

Yeah, that's a good point, too. I think it's a lot of that. There's a lot of interest and stuff there.

Yeah, I do.

There's a lot to think about in all of this. Yeah, for sure.

One time I went to a Jordan Peterson lecture, and my husband and I were the only people that looked like us there.

Black people, you mean? What? You mean black people?

No. I don't want to diss on Jordan's fan base, but I feel like everybody had their own uniform. There were just rows of people in front of me and they all dressed.

The same.

Really? Yeah. I was like, man, for people, and I'm again not judging or criticizing, but you would think that free thinkers would or maybe they just don't care. I don't know.

Or maybe there's just only so many stores, too, where you can... I feel like it's a lot of Johnson and guys who are set. I don't know, I'm a Jordan Peters and fan, but I'm like, I think it's a lot of lost boys, but who can comprehend well or well enough, because otherwise lost boys who can't comprehend, they listen to maybe Huba stank or whatever. But I think if you get or, Hey, come out and fight. Remember that song? You got to keep.

Them separated. Oh, yeah.

Offspring? Offspring, yeah. Dude, yeah. So if you are a lost boy who can't communicate as well as you'd like to sometimes, and this is a judgment, but you probably have owned an offspring album. And then if you are a different version than it's sometimes Jordan Peterson. But yeah, I could not imagine. It would be like playing Where's Waldo if I saw you at a Jordan Peterson. Yeah. Concert. That's interesting. But that's awesome that you guys went and you found like that.

What the-My whole point was just that I feel like maybe we pigeonhole ourselves, right? I feel like everybody... I went to this... The church I go to is a really small church, and there's not enough people to have a running trend or anything like that. But when I went to a big church in California recently, I looked around and it's like a lot of people have the same style. I realized that maybe because modern-day Christians are so used to being surrounded by people that look the same as them, when someone like, like me comes into the mix, it's like, Oh, wait, this is demonic, or this is, because I get called demonic a lot, or this is like, you're serving two masters. I'm like, I don't think any of that is accurate. I don't think you have to... There's no dress code to be a Christian. Yeah.

Oh, that's baffling to me.

Yeah, but I get it a lot. I just recently posted this, my last post was just, I thought it was a very cool, modest image of me in a dress and some funny shoes. The comments are just hilarious. People like, Satan is.

Going to bring you home. That's crazy. I guess there's all levels of everything. I didn't really know. If you get into the Christian, if you like-I.

Thought I was going to get hate from my existing fans, like just people who are-.

Feel like you could be a deserter or something. Or maybe people that are fans of yours that don't have a religion or aren't Christians or something that they would have a thought about it?

No, they've been super loving and open-minded, and I love that. But it's been the other side that I was just so surprised. Wow.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of interesting stigmas with Christianity, I guess. I like religion, right? I don't know if I care what religion people are. I think I wish I knew more about some of the religions. I probably prefer Christianity for myself because that's what I know the most. Or I would say that I prefer God. That's the term I like to use. And most of my belief started through AA, through going to 12-step meetings. It was the first time I ever started to get an understanding of starting to build a relationship with God and talking to God and feeling like that if I think or feel something that there's something on the other side of the universe that hears it or cares about it, right? Mm-hmm. It blew my mind, dude, because I've been electrocuted a couple of times. You have? Oh, yeah, but I never had a feeling like this. It's not like being electrocuted. It's just like.

Feeling like-What do you mean? You've been electrocuted?

Yeah, I've been electrocuted, dude. I've been electrocuted, I guess a handful of times or whatever. Yeah, I guess. One time I got electrocuted at a carnival when I was young. I got electrocuted. Three years ago, I was walking behind a food truck, and I stepped, they had a plug in, a big joint plug in, and I stepped right on it and just... It was like the opposite of being baptized, I don't think. It was uncomfortable. But yeah, I like thinking about God. I love thinking about it now. I was just asking God this morning just to help me, just to help give me some better direction in my life, and help me with a few things I've been struggling with. I've been struggling to quit vaping, so I don't want to vape. It's just been so hard, and I realized I'm an addict. It's like, Dude, I will wake up in the middle of the night and see if there's vape places open and stuff. Then some assholes started to stay open in 24 hours.

Oh.

Yeah.

Cigarettes was the hardest for me. Really? Oh, my gosh. I love smoking. I love cigarettes. But I don't want to be that mom.

Well, vaping became my higher power in a lot of ways. If I have an uncomfortable thought, feeling, moment, whatever, let me hit this thing. Yeah. In it. I realized, Oh, this is the thing. I'm serving this. Whether I want to have a higher power, whatever I want it to be, this is what I am serving this thing. I show up whenever the little a ping goes off inside of me, I show up for this thing. That's crazy.

Yeah. My life revolves around smoking, too. It's funny because you start treating it as little treats. I would be tattooing and I'd be like, All right, I'll just get through two hours and then I get a treat and then get these little breaks and stuff. But then everything, life becomes an inconvenience, at least for me. I've never talked about this before, by the way. I feel like usually when I talk about sobriety and stuff, we're talking about drugs. But cigarettes were the hardest. I love the ritual of it. I love the smell. Leather jackets and cigarettes to me is so sexy.

Oh, Sam Elliot and the mask, have you seen him in that? No. Was Shay a member of.

That movie? Oh, yeah, I was thinking the other mask.

Yeah, I wish Sam Elliot was in that one, too. I like Sam Elliott. I mean, I don't like him like I like him, but I like him.

Yeah.

But yeah, people don't talk enough about that.

Yeah, it's so, I mean, it's just all of it is like, I was like two packs a day. What? Like, until recently.

Packs Van D, huh? That's crazy, dude. Two packs a day. You're lucky you look so lovely still, after having.

Smoked that much. I know. Yeah, true. Not I know, I mean like I know.

But no, it's a blood.

Yeah, that's fortunate. You see some people that are just like, yeah.

Some people look like they start to eventually... They look like the inhale that they take off a cigarette. They're just like... They're whole just like...

Yeah.

But.

If I see people doing drugs in movies, I just instantly get sick to my stomach. I'm like, I just like... The idea of doing drugs again is like, I'm beyond that. But if I see somebody smoking a cigarette, I'm like, Man, I still have that. I can't cheat on that.

I stopped at a high. Dude, this is the saddest story. I remember milling around a high school if some kid was vaping after school one day.

When we were- Vaping is so not cool. That's the one that's like, I'm like, Why? Just smoke a cigarette. It's so steam punk with your little things.

The steam punk... I know.

They're the craziest. They're like putting together assembling. It's so weird. Just get a cigarette, be a man.

God, I didn't know that was such a loser.

But.

I'm okay. This might be the conversation I need that helps me. Yeah, I just didn't. Yeah, but there's some people they put this, they crank it and they make their own vape or whatever. They add vanilla season here. It's likeThey have a machine and there's a tumble drive sitting on it. What? Yeah, these are the guys that are doing this. This is a guy. Let's play that. Can we play that? Let's see one of these. Yeah, the people that blow the smoke and they what like this. There's a team-Do you.

Don't do any of that?

I don't do any. No, this guy is out of his mind. This guy has a 12 gage faith. Oh, my God, this guy. This guy's wife is missing. There's no reason to need that much nicotine unless you did something bad. Look at that. This guy's a damn mutter. But the craziest ones are the competitions. It's almost like it's one of those dog shows now. It's like the guy will blow a big smoke ring and then his wife will run and jump through it. It's like, What is this shit? Anyway, but it's hard.

It is.

It's hard. I think since I don't have a family or anything that I constantly need to address, then-I.

Feel like I probably wouldn't have quit if I didn't have Really? Yeah. The minute I got pregnant, I got the plus sign. That was the day I quit. No. And then I started again after I had my son. Not right.

Away, but like-You were hiding and doing it?

No. Fuck, yeah.

That's pretty awesome that you were.

No, I never would post. You'll be hard pressed to find. There's very few photos of me smoking online. Yeah. But then when my son was two, because I had my little smoking nook outside, and he came out. My son, he learned how to open doors, and he came out. I was like, Mommy, Mommy. And he's like, What's that smell? And it just felt like such a loser. I was like, I can't be that mom.

Yeah. I would hate that being that dad. What's that smell? It's like, Oh, it's cranberry, lime, crush, or whatever. Is that your flavor? Iced or whatever. Yeah, whatever. No, I prefer watermelon, lemon. Sometimes I'll do watermelon, lemon, mango if they don't have the one that I like. But it's sad. It's all pretty sad, I think. And the guy knows me. He calls me Big Boi when I walk in there. That's the worst part. And he's Hispanic or Egyptian or something. He's like, What's up, Big Boi? That's what he says every time I go in there, dude. And this is the saddest part. I will buy it, hit it a few times, and then throw it away so I don't hit it anymore. Then you have to buy it again. Then I'll go later on that day and buy it again.

I would just buy cartons. I would just buy cartons.

You buy a boatload. You'd be out there on the Ohio River, like flagging down.

I buy cartons. One of my biggest pet peeves was when people would ask to bomb a cigarette.

Why you have a carton?

Well, yeah, but I'm averaging one every 30 minutes. I don't have a spare. Why would you do that? Just go buy your own.

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That's how it was when I would do drugs, too. I remember in the beginning, it was fun party time. You're out with your friends. And then the minute that I realized like, Oh, no, this is mine. I would just start doing drugs by myself. Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah. That was it. No sharing because there's so many freeloaders.

Yeah, and I was one of them, first of all, and I'd finally gotten drugs. So the last thing, if I'm free, yeah, it's finally time I get to freeload off myself. But yeah, I would get cocaine, I would go home and just do it by myself. And it would be sad.

It.

Was the saddest, man. I don't know why. But yeah, people do that. But yeah, I think through going to 12-step meetings is where I started to build a relationship with the higher power and really believe in one. Before that, I just never had it presented to me in a way that felt, I don't know, that it messed. Yeah. I think that's important, I think, is how it comes into your life, too, a lot of times. And I just like having our power, I like having an invisible friend that... Yeah, I like having an invisible friend.

Yeah. I feel like I came from the School... I came from a thought where you have to be empowered and just believe in yourself and all this idea that it's almost like self-worship. I think in AA, they do talk about that, where it's like that you can't do this on your own. I think taking that to the bigger picture part of it, where it's not just with addiction, that for me, I've definitely surrendered to that. I don't think there's anything wrong to humble yourself and be like, I can't do this on my own. It's where I've landed, I guess. Yeah. Well, I.

Think that's the part I struggle with a lot. Sometimes it's just on a daily basis, like turning my will over God, turning my will over to higher power. I pray every day, but I know that it's a relationship that I want to be stronger in my life. I can feel it all the time, like me just wanting a stronger relationship. Yeah. And then, yeah, one thing I liked about churches was just the sense of community or religious places people meet up, worship centers, was just the sense of people doing something together, kids being able to do Sunday school or whatever, and you're going back and you're back there. Everybody's making little arts or whatever. I like that. I like that sense of community. I think it was good probably for communities to have some shared meeting space. I think churches and religious worship centers used to be that more in America. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world, but...

Yeah, I love that community. I personally love I look forward to my Sundays, and we do choir practice on Thursdays. I definitely feel... I think because we have a small church, which I think is a good thing, when people are missing, when they go out of town or they're missed, I feel like I genuinely miss my church family when I'm.

In L. A. Or whatever. Oh, yeah, it's cool.

Yeah, it's cool. I've never really had that before. I'm not that person either. I don't like group therapy. I don't like communal seating at restaurants. I like Lone Wolf. But where I have found my little, I guess, tribe or whatever.

No, it's fair. Well, I think there used to be a lot more of that. There's even that book by Sebastian Younger, I think it's called Tribe maybe, where it was about that. It was about when we were in smaller groups and stuff like that. People used to... Yeah, you would miss somebody, they'd be gone. It's like, otherwise you get so caught up with so many things and your space gets too big and it's hard to know. It's hard to pay attention. It's hard to connect. Or you're trying to connect to too many things people feel like, That's part of it. We're just trying to connect to too many things. I don't think our system is built for that a lot of times. Yeah. I think it's nice having a place where you notice if somebody's gone. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Yeah.

It's cool. It's important. I think it's important for us. Yeah. What was it like when you did you think you really had an addiction problem? What was that like?

Oh, yeah. I was like a big time- User?

Drug.

User? -user, yeah.

-loser.

Yeah, that's fine. No, I'm a quick learner, so it's not like I'm never casual about anything. It's like what starts off as innocent and just experimentational turns into my entire existence. Yeah, wow. And that part of my personality, I've managed to change over the years, too. I've grown up a little bit more. What part of it do you mean? Well, because I think before when I looked at my relationship, so when I looked at just everything has to be an excess. Now I'm like a little more balanced. Did you ditch the jacket?

Yeah, I just took my jacket off because I don't know if I'm getting warm or not, or I don't know if I'm just feeling like if something's wrong with me, I feel fine. I'm not going to faint. I don't feel like sick. I was like, Do I still want to have a jacket on? I just took action, I guess. Like, Yeah, I think faith is just so interesting. I think it used to be probably a long time ago, people had to have more faith because there wasn't... Your television stream was almost like the sky or it was like watching nature. If you wanted to be watching a nature channel, you had to go outside. You already lived outside, so you got to just look. I think we're so much more connected probably to the universe. I don't know. I don't know. It just think it's interesting what religion is like. Some people say that it's bad for people, that people call it the opiate of the masses. You hear people say that. But I don't know.

I think there's bad representations of everything. I mean, there's certainly bad representations of people in AA. I always had a hard time going to AA because I just couldn't stand a lot of the people, to be honest. Also, I just feel like it was never really anonymous, especially in LA. People go there as a scene. You would go and it's like, so and so was at a meeting. I remember I was going with a friend and then someone took a picture of us from the back or whatever and post like, Man. It's like my friends trying to get through something and then it's like this unnecessary attention. Or the worst would be comedians that would show up and they would speak and they're just.

Practicing.

Their-really? Yeah. Oh, my God. No, it's like the worst. The worst.

This is why I vape. At least now I have somebody to blame it on. But no, I'll say this. You know what? There is some things about that that make people feel uncomfortable. I try to go to meetings and share as honestly as I can.

That's cool.

But sometimes that part I'm able to get over if somebody hears something I'm thinking or feeling about, because that sometimes could be a hang up for me a little bit. If people started to recognize you, it made me feel scared, I think, a lot of times.

I mean, it all helps and it all doesn't. I feel like if it inspires somebody to keep coming, that's cool, too. But you don't want that to get somebody sobriety, the hinge on that. I think there's also churches. There's some that are mega churches that are preaching weird gospel. Then there's smaller ones that are not or whatever. I think it's like, because I know there's meetings that are much more private and it's not a scene or a dating scene or something.

Yeah, A is interesting, though. I think it's interesting that A is interesting. But then also you're like, Well, this is why I'm here. Sometimes it depends on my attitude. If I'm in a good mood that day, it's like, I don't care.

But.

Yeah, there was a meeting in Las Vegas recently where a guy was filming himself with this, with me in the background.

That made me just...

I spoke up for myself and I asked him what was going on. But it was just some of that stuff is a little bit weird.

Yeah, it's to.

Be- But then you're like, Well, yeah, I don't know. But I love going to meetings. That I really like. I thought it was super helpful.

That's good.

I'm trying to think of something else with faith that we could talk about.

You want to talk about that stuff more?

Is it.

Okay with you? Yeah.

I love thinking about it. I don't have a lot of people on that I guess that we talk about it with as much.

I'm probably the worst person because I'm not a.

Studied-i don't know anything about the history of it. I know about the family in the woods. I know they had the apple. I know one of the sons killed the other one. Things got a little hectic right out of the gate. But there's a lot of this specific... I don't know a lot of the logistics. Yeah. I think I wouldn't, yeah. That part I don't know about. But I just think about feelings and stuff.

I.

Like thinking about that stuff.

Some of that is intuitive, too, I feel like there's parts of... I think there's some things that are ingrained in us that you can't really explain. It doesn't feel good to harm somebody or things like that. Yeah. But I don't know.

Yeah, but then it's interesting how that stuff happens in the world sometimes. I don't know.

I don't- Yeah, but I think then people go, Well.

If- Why would God let that happen? I'm going to.

Take my shoes off. Is that okay? Yeah, for sure.

That's.

Fine. But just don't get a shot of it because that's gross. I hate people do that.

I just want to do this. I won't. I don't even have my phone on me. Okay, cool. Well, if we can blur them out.

No, you don't have to blur them out. Okay. Yeah, but I think sometimes people want to blame God when it's bad and not for the good stuff. But I think you look at like, I always think we're human, we sin, we were capable of making mistakes, and we have free will to make good and bad choices. So it's like, yeah, of course, there's going to be evil in this world, but I don't think God would be the one to blame. You still have to take accountability for your actions. It's a shame that bad things do happen to a lot of good people and innocent people. That's the way of the world.

Yeah, I think that's always been there throughout time. I don't think God of God is like a specific instance to instance type of like a landlord or whatever you want to leader or champion or whatever. Some people call him different names. But I think of him more as just this jet of like, I like to think of his view of us as like a general energy, more like it's just something that's always there. Even if things are horrible, it's there. And if things are good, it's there. It's almost like this like aIt's like this code or something that fits to whatever you need it to be. I don't really think of it as too much of a rigid thing. So, yeah, I guess I wouldn't blame God. If something horrible happened, I don't know if I would take it to God. I would just be like, That's what we do here, unfortunately, in the world. I might talk to God to try and have understanding, and maybe I would blame him, and he would let me blame him. That's one of the things he does. He just lets you blame him. I don't know. I like thinking about this, though.

Some of it's interesting. Yeah.

Because.

It's like, Yeah, how do we... And I don't know if our brains can conceptualize everything. We only have five senses. I was just talking to my buddy about this the other day. I'm like, Dude, we only have five senses?

Yeah. Not that many, dude. A lot can be done with that, though. Huh? A lot can be done with that.

No, and look, people are doing a great job.

No, but you're right. I feel like there's like, parts of my brain that can't comprehend the concepts of time, you know what I mean? But we just try our best to get through that. I think about the story of Job in the Bible. That one is, even if you look at it, not literally, where Job was this guy, and I'm going to just paraphrase.

It, obviously. Totally paraphrase. And look, if anybody judges somebody for paraphrasing out of the Bible, dude, we're not pastors. Yeah, for sure. Exactly. We're just two people sitting somewhere trying our best to be alive in the universe.

Yeah, it's true. Thanks. But Job was put through all these trials and all of the worst things that you could imagine happening to one person. And through it, he just maintained his faith. And even at a point where even at one point his wife was like, Come on, are you serious? How can you still praise God when you're losing your children, you're losing everything we've had? Now you're sick and covered in boils and on the brink of death. And he was just like, praise God. And I feel like a lot of times through my decades of tattooing people and hearing the worst and saddest stories, I was known for doing a lot of portraits. And so I would do portraits of people. They're or their loved ones who have passed or their loved ones who inspired them, things like that. And you just hear some of the most heart-wrenching stuff that I can't even begin to imagine how you're still walking. But they still find a way. And I feel like... I want to be like Job in that sense because the last few years for me have been so rough behind the curtains. I don't share all of my...

I'm not the type of person that goes on Instagram and cries. But it's like we suffer quietly through things and no one has a perfect life. But I'm still going to live in a state of gratitude and I'm still going to be excited to be here sitting with you today. And it's like theworld could be falling apart and I'm still like, I praise God.

Yeah, it gives you hope, I think. Yeah. That's the thing that I think that's, I don't know, I mean, yeah, I love that. It is interesting how we suffer quietly.

Yeah. I mean, some suffer loudly like a dick, but.

Oh, yeah, like my freaking neighbor's dog. I think he's not even suffering. But it's loud.

Yeah. But it's all going to be okay.

Yeah, I think that's what God is to a lot of people. It's a real... I would way rather have hope-.

Me too.

Than not have it.

Yeah.

That's the thing. Yeah, I don't know. I've just felt God. I've just felt God. It was the only thing I could say it was. Because one time I was smoking a bunch of menthols, actually, going back to cigarettes, but my girlfriend had broken up with me and I was about to just peel my skin off of my body and feed it to something. I wasn't doing real well. I was just really doing real bad just on the inside. I swear it's crazy. I felt like something literally just put like a big hand went around my heart and I started to feel better. But I felt like it really felt like that, which is-.

The same. Yeah, I had the exact same feeling. Really? Yeah, it was weird. I don't really talk about it because then you sound all.

Like-i don't give a fuck. People know I'm that. We're doing our best. If anybody thinks that they think I know anything about God, like any exact low key BTS information about the Lord, they're out of their fucking mind. If they think they do, too, then they're out of their eff in mind. I just am trying to think out loud and feel out loud with somebody. But you had something similar?

Yeah, where I felt like a hand just wrapping me in warmth. I just had this feeling of surrendering to it where I was just like, Oh, man, it's going to be fine. It's not me just be like, Oh, I have to tell myself until... No, I had a clear understanding that you got me. It's cool. Yeah.

Well, what's interesting, too, for me is that I've even taken my own will back so many times since then. That's the tough thing. I think that's where I want to get more into my morning routine. It's just turning my just die will be done. Because then it just takes all the pressure off of me. It takes all the pressure off of me to feel like I have to make everything okay or that I got to make everybody okay or that I.

Have- What are those pressures like?

I don't know. I think I just feel I've always felt like I'm running late for something. I've felt that my whole life. If I don't keep doing more, then I'm not enough. I think I felt as a kid, if I don't do something... I just wasn't seeing my mother. My mother didn't really look at me, right? And so I think I felt like I have to be perfect. The only way I have a chance of being seen is if I'm perfect. And if I'm not perfect, then I just don't have a chance to be seen. It makes me sad to think that a kid would think that. But I think that's how I felt. I'm not blamingmy mother, I think, or my father, I don't know. I don't know what their lives were like, but.

I.

Just remember, as I've gotten older, I've been able to recognize that, like, Man, that's what you were feeling for so long. I felt like I always needed to go do something to try and make myself better so that I was enough.

Same.

Yeah. Yeah, to be seen.

I.

Think when I say yeah, I will be done, it's like just letting none of that, Matt, it does. Everything's okay. No matter how you are, if you're good or bad, or if you're not doing your best, if you're not even trying, really, I feel like you should try. But just that you're just not alone. I've always had a tough time letting people love me.

Really?

Yeah, it's been really tough.

Like in relationships or something?

Yeah, I think that muscle just wasn't built up when I was a child with my mother. I just have had a tough time with it. I think the interesting thing about having through 12 Step for me has just been trying to build some relationship. It's the first time that I've really let somebody into my life in my negotiations with God. I hate to call them that, but that's...

That makes.

Sense, though. How much am I willing to turn myself over to that somebody else is going to be with me, even if I'm not enough or if I don't feel like I'm enough for them to keep me around. Anyway. Yeah. Sorry.

I know it's a lot of stuff, but... Don't worry about it. No.

I.

Had this scenario last week when I was in L. A. Actually, where I had this makeup line for 12 years, and it did really great. Then at one point, I got a bunch of backlash, and I ended up having to really sit with myself and figure out what I want to do with my life if I want to keep up this fight of... I don't know. There's contractually things that I can't talk about anymore. But when I sold my makeup line, I had to sit there in a meeting with the production company and and lawyers and stuff. I remember I just wanted to shut it down. Let's just let it go. I don't want to do this anymore. They were like, but I think they saw their profits to be made and stuff. In order to buy me out, there was negotiations. At one point, and I was always very fair about things. I wasn't asking for the world. I remember at one point, this guy... This old man with this balding old man with an alcoholic potato nose, looked me in the eyes and told me, You're not worth anything anymore. Those words and his voice, like, haunt me still, even though I know it's not like, This guy's telling me what's cool.

I know it was just like a leveraging point to whatever, try to give me as little as possible. When I go to L. A, This is one thing that I do complain about where I'm at in Indiana is that there's no places to work out. Actually, it's good for my health to work out every day. When I go to L. A, I'll fly in, and then I just go to Barry's boot camp where I just have a bunch of people yelling at me to run faster. But if you've ever been to a Barry's workout, it's like there's no talking. And that's another thing I like about it. You just go, you work out, and then in between you do floor work, and then you have to switch to the treadmill. And in between that, you switch. And so we're right about to switch, and I'm just sitting there. This guy's voice gets in my head. I'm looking at myself in the mirror, and it's just like, You're not worth anything anymore. I'm like, What am I doing my life? I was on the verge of tears. Right at that moment, this blonde girl just comes up to me and was like, Hey, Kat, really quick.

I just want to tell you I think you're so amazing. I just lost it. Then she just went on her treadmill and didn't see her again. I was like, Man, I know this is the part where you should blame God for these beautiful divine moments where it's like, Man, you sent this girl to me just to say a few little words that just changed my... I was just so grateful in that moment. I went back home after that workout. I just went to my husband. I was like, This girl just changed my life. He was just like, Yeah, why are you even listening to that? I'm like, I know. That was years ago. I don't know what part of me, and it's probably my childhood stuff where I don't know yours, but mine was constantly seeking validation through my mom that wasn't there. And it's like... And I've gone to years of therapy to fix myself and stuff. I'm not where I was before, but before I was definitely like, Oh, yeah, I need to do more. There's not enough. There's so much I want to do that it hurts. And it's just like... And it's not...

It doesn't really matter if you have a sea of people that are cheering you on at the end of the day. It's just all in here. But yeah, it's crazy to see it in real time now. I feel like ever since I got to this place that I am now with my faith, I start seeing it in real time all the time where it's like God's just diving in and being like, cut that shit out. But I don't think it's ever going to go away, though.

Yeah, and that childhood stuff and all that, I don't suffer from that stuff.

Every day. No, it just.

Creeps in sometimes. Yeah, sometimes people, they're like, Man, you seem like you need to be like, I'm okay. But it's still a part of me that lives inside of me. And sometimes there's still like, I noticed there's a lot of feelings. I never got to have feelings when I was a kid. I didn't know. I was always in some type of mode of like, I need to be seen. I need to make sure my mother sees me so I'll be just taken care, whatever. So at that point, you're not developing any other feelings except for like, you know.

Yeah, like a stress. Yes.

And so I think, yeah. But I think the first time I've ever really been able to have some an even discussion of a relationship in my life has been through recovery and through the introduction of God that way because it was like, You get to choose your own God, right? Yeah. And I've just chosen the most common God that I know and the one that friends, families would take me to church and stuff. And that's fine for me. But I think a lot of that's interesting. Yeah, man, I can't believe... What gets me is that somebody would even want to work in a job where debating or negotiating for money is worth even the value of saying something like that to someone. That's the sickest part of the world.

I mean, it worked. I definitely was questioning myself in that moment and I was like, Maybe I should just settle. But lessons learned. I think everything turned out the way it was supposed to anyway.

Yeah, but that's a lot of LA. It's like you almost have to hire sick people to deal with other sick people in some of that. But that's the nicest thing about being out of there, I think, is having some semblance of like, I don't have a manager, I don't have.

I don't know. I've simplified my life, too. It's crazy. A lot of these things have just... Because I've been so used to being in this little bubble where it's like having the assistants and the managers and all this stuff. Then we move out here and I was like, I don't want to bring a compound of people over here. We had a nanny, for example. I wasn't blessed with a very close family. So when I had my son, it's not like I had a village of family that was helping us out. It was just me and my husband by ourselves. It's fine. We can do it. But then I ended up hiring a nanny who was like family to us. She would just come from 9:00 to five so that I could do all my work during the day. Then once we moved out here, I was left alone and I was like, Man, this is actually cool being a full-time mom. I know it sounds so dumb to say that out loud, but it's just me 100 % of the time instead of having somebody help. I think it's made me obviously a better mom.

But you realize with less is sometimes easier. It's definitely less complicated. My life is definitely... I let go of publicists and all that stuff. We'll definitely hire, like when I have an album launch and stuff, I'll put together a team and we do things. But in general, I'm not dealing with a sea of people anymore, and it is definitely liberating. And it feels like there's just more benefits to it, I think. Even when you guys hit me up and stuff, I used to be like, Oh, yeah, I'll just let so on, so handle. I'm like, Oh, it's cool. I'll just drive myself here. Because southern Indiana is not that far from here. I'm like, My son and my husband, we took a little road trip. Oh, nice. Yeah. It's just easier that way. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. These days it's like, I don't want somebody fielding something that has no idea what my interests are. They may have some idea what my interests are, but they're not going to make the choices. It's almost like a lot of that whole world is built on this shell system that you need somebody to help you be a human. But these days, people don't even believe a lot of stuff in the press. Nobody takes it.

I don't believe any of it.

It's all a bunch of fucking SoundCloud, right? Yeah. It's like a lot of fucking... Sorry.

I mean, if anything, usually if I see certain headlines, especially with my friends, I'm like, Well, you already know the truth behind things. I'll be more... My first thought is to be like, Oh, it's probably the opposite of whatever it is out there. But I feel like do people still fall for it now?

Probably. I don't know. Look, if you don't think that... I have friends. Who was my friend the other day who was telling me that there's some celebrity that they pay a couple grand or something and then people show up and take pictures of them, and then it's going to be in some tablets, but it's all set up and none of it's all for show. None of it is not real. I've never.

Heard of that.

People will come out with a brand and then they'll call their friend in a magazine and they're like, Hey, can you say that this brand is amazing? And then their friend writes an article that says the brand is amazing. We don't even know if the brand is. It's just like so much of it is just valuable. Because it's not true.

I.

Think that's the thing is just trying to sort out what's true. I think that's what we're all trying to do. I think a lot of times just in our own lives even, it's like, Well, what do I really think or feel? What's true? I think that's something I've had an interesting time.

I think that's one of the reasons I've always loved you and everything you do is there's a level of authenticity. Earlier we were talking about style and stuff, and I'm like, I love your style because it's just your effortlessly doing it whatever you like, or unless there's a lot of effort. I don't know.

I mean, it took a while to stay in there and be like, I don't know if this is okay. But I'm here. I don't wear that black coat because I know you like black stuff. I love that. I wish I could be as brave as you, I think. Really? I did think that's the reddest lipstick I've ever seen in my life. But it's a nice Christmas color, too.

Wait, what do you mean brave?

I think it's just.

Brave to- To put this on.

To be like... Like, because I remember when I was in junior high school, my friend Matt Schinevair, he was a neat guy, and his brother played in a band. I don't want to say the band was bad, but the band probably had a unique sound. Okay. Okay, so. And their name was like, shuddering, like it was something crazy, like desperate victim or something. Definitely, the name of the band was one guy was playing the drums, but he was just fucking shaking with anger so much and he had the sticks in his hand, and he was just keeping some type of a vague wooden metal falseto. And it was just that's who they were. But so I would go sometimes and try to be like and I would listen to Blind Melon and.

Like fucking- Blind Melon is like the one that...

But they somehow rolled, I guess they weren't Goth, but they were hippie. I don't know if we had gotth. Maybe we had one dude. Oh, yeah, gotth was different. Sorry, these were.

Just like... Blaine Melon is like the opposite.

These are just like violent hippies.

Okay, all right.

That's the group I was in for a little while was this violent hippie group. But yeah, the goth kids would wear those shoes that were like, and then -like Frankenstack. But they had to wait till everybody left to walk back because it was such an uncomfortable walk sometimes. She's like, Why are those goth kids still hanging out by the tree over there?

They're always in the trees. It's weird. There's even a website. I think it was called Goths in trees. There's a fascination with goth people that are in trees. I've never felt the feeling calling, but I don't know, there's a lot of them. That's cool. It's a thing. So go on.

There it is, Goths and trees right there. Let's look at a few of them.

They all hang out.

That guy is not that Goth. Yeah, that guy definitely. Oh, that guy is Goth, dude.

Yeah, they all hang out in trees. I don't understand.

Oh, there's something very Edgar, Allen, Poe about it. Do you know?

Because of.

A raven? I think so. Now this lady seems like...

It's a thing. I have never done it.

Let's see more. This is fascinating. I know. That's what I'm seeing. Now that guy is goth. Yeah.

Look at their inside trees. It's weird.

I wonder if there's something about it that feels good to him.

To our species?

Yeah, I could see it. Now, this is really interesting.

She brought props.

Oh, yeah, she's a sith. Or sith. Is it a scyth? She's a sith. Oh, wow. Yeah, these are goth on a...

In trees. Is it a tree house or?

Yeah, it looks like a tree house or a zipline. Gosh on zip line would be good, too. But I love this. This is really fascinating. I used to love when there was some dope Tubler pages out there. That was fun, wasn't it?

Yeah, but you were going to get to the point where you had the friends that were in the band.

Yeah, and I thought I was goth, but I wasn't, I guess. We would just listen to Skinny Puppy or different bands like Epilepsy, Lizard or some shit like that. And then, yeah, that was it. That was about as goth, as as goth as I get. But I was always marveled at the people that could go full dark-winged duck.

I like that, dark-winged duck.

Yeah, I think the people that could be like, Whoa, this person, how did they get to school? Did they flew here themselves? That type of... I think there was something interesting about it. There's such an allure, I think, about that woman. I would probably say woman more because I think it's like there's something interesting about a goth person. What is it about goth people? Why is it?

Like the loose screws, probably?

What is it? What is the calling towards? Is there a code of conduct or something?

There's got to be some childhood stuff. I know for me, like I said, I never felt a sense of belonging even within my own family unit. I remember discovering music and then not necessarily seeing myself, but there was a reflection of emotions happening. I love The Cure and Susie and the band, she's the pashmong. I think, lyrically and just the soul to it. I feel like a lot of people are sensitive in that sense, and then they just take it to the outward expression of that. But I don't know, I just like it.

Maybe that's it. Maybe a way to be seen, too, because I guess it was an outlier. I grew up in a small town.

But it's not.

Right, because you have your own group then. Is that what you mean?

Well, I don't know. I'm not judging. I'm just looking at it.

It's just interesting. It's funny. Even this morning when I was getting ready, I was like, I feel like I tend to dress very cover all the time. I very rarely show my tattoos at all. I was like, I'm going to change it up. I'm going to go see Theo today, and I'll just wear short sleeves. But I feel like I would always get tattooed for myself. I just like to look at images, or I like what it looks like, the appearance of it. I'm in the middle of nowhere in Indiana, I dress like this every day. But it's not for anybody else other than, Why are you laughing?

I could just see how many men have pulled up back at home and like, Honey, I've seen a damn apparition down there. That damness neighborhood is going shit. Really? I think there's something interesting about it. No, there's something. Look, I think a lot of men, I remember in our town, a lot of men would go and cry over by the wind, Dixie, in their truck.

I remember. Why?

I don't know why, but we would go ride our bike over there sometimes. It was a sad place. I think men would just go sit over there and be sad sometimes. I remember seeing that. But I think there was something very alluring about a Goth woman to me. It seemed like a siren, like in that book.

For.

Odysias, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. That's what it seemed like. There was something like, What's.

Going on?

This is different. It's different. I think it's, well, it's brave to be different.

I.

Think that may be like, Well, yeah, there was an element of like, This feels brave to me. I'm just interested how somebody leans into that or how they, not that they're joining a group, but it's like, how does that... Yeah, why does one goth?

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I just like what I like, I think, and I just do more of that or do a lot of that, I guess.

Yeah, it's interesting. I've never gotten it. I think there's maybe I might have dated a goth woman at some point. I don't remember. But I think I could have. I think I did.

She didn't.

Write you a poem? I'm sure she did. I'm sure. Dude, I was in the French quarter the other day with my brother, and there's people there. If you go up to them, they'll write a poem for you and your friend that you're writing.

Oh, really? About you? Is it funny or is.

It like a.? No, it was like a nice poem. Okay. They're like, Okay, tell us a little bit about yourself. I was like, Oh, this is my brother. You tell them a couple of little things, and then you have to stay in there for about 11 minutes. That's the tough part because they're on typewriters.

Yeah.

They're all sitting there sitting there on typewriters. There's like a row of four of them, and everybody's just like... And there's music playing, like people are playing the street music, and it was pretty awesome. We had a great time, and we got a nice little Christmas gift there. That's cool. Super cool. Yeah, it was real nice. I was in a class with this lady, and she smoked a lot of weed. I think she had discoloredated teeth from her mouth. But she was awesome. She was like the stoner teacher, her alleged stoner. We would write poems in there all day. I think that's maybe where I saw.

Some gock. Were her teeth.

They were yellow. I think they had a tint to them. I don't want to call. I don't know. She could.

Have had a-I'm so self-conscious about my teeth lately. I feel like in pictures, because I wear a red lipstick all the time. No, I'm looking at yours. Yours are super white. Mine are not white. I don't know you can show me anymore. I even Googled why, because I brush and floss like crazy and I quit smoking. I thought, Oh, I'm going to get white teeth. It's going to be amazing. Then it's just not happening. I don't know what to do about it. I won't get the fake teeth that everyone's getting now. Everyone looks crazy. Hey, brother. They look so crazy.

I'm like, Damn, what have you been eating, buddy? Electricity? What have you been eating, dude? You got glossed finished teeth? What's crazy? Your teeth look very nice. I have nice teeth. Your teeth are whiter than your skin.

No, your teeth are so white. Nuh-uh. Yeah-huh.

Oh, I guarantee you that. But this is... Look, everybody watches like, These people have the yellowest fucking teeth, these idiots.

I'll live with my yellow if it means not having chiclet teeth or whatever that.

Everyone has. Oh, my mom was always brushing her teeth and putting on a hand cream. Our house could be burning down, but as long as she was getting her hand cream on. Yeah. It was pretty cool, though, actually. I think, yeah, it was just she'd always had that hand cream. She liked to have it. I think it was probably calming to her, too, maybe to be due to to do this with her hands.

I wonder what my son's going to take away from... That's one of your little core memories. I'm like, I wonder what-.

Oh, what his.

Will be? Yeah. Because he's so sweet. He learned the word ravishing. Now he's like, to this morning, Mom, you look ravishing. Thanks.

You're like, Go get in that tree for family pictures. Actually, no. Dude, that.

Would be a neat idea. We do a lot of family portraits together. I likeI love our little family because we look like a little family. My son, he is not scared about what I think, not scared, but spooky to him is fun because it's what he's around. His normal is a lot different than normal kids. And we get a lot of criticism about that, too, because he wears black. I'm like, That's what he likes. At this point, he sees his dad or his mom. It's normal to him. We did a photoshoot for this. It was actually for an interview for a magazine thing, and they wanted to shoot us in front of our house. I was like, Oh, there's this little fountain. I had my little Tim Burton, like Parasol thing, and people just hated it. I think they just hated seeing it bothers them that we don't look normal. I don't understand. It's really weird. I would think they would think like, Oh, that's cute. It's very like Adam's family or something.

Well, even like we were saying earlier, people want to put, and I do it too, I want to have a box. I want to have a safe space for things to be. I don't want things to... I'm okay with the edges fraying, but I think there's a part of me, even like a system of organization, I think, because all your brain does is just organize. It's just an organizing tool. Yeah, that's true. I think when things start to get a little weary, people don't know what's going on. What's your husband like?

He's cool. His name is Raphael, and my son's name is Leaphard, which is Raphael spelled backwards. Leaphard. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Wow. I know I wish I had a cool name that sounded good backwards. Yeah. I don't. But it's cool.

You don't. I just read it.

I know. Sorry.

Yeah, right? Sorry.

But yeah. The NoV attack.

The NoV attack. But yeah, it's very... You should get your son a vulture or something for Christmas if you like. Anyway, sorry. Sorry for making so many jokes about your esthetic and stuff. But it's cool. Some of them are very.

Accurate.

Though. Well, I wish I gotten to talk to more people that are goth people, I think I don't ever do... I don't know if I don't go to enough goth places. I think I've always had an affinity for goth women, maybe, I think. Oh, my brother likes goth women, too, I think. Or he likes creative ladies.

Like artsy.

Yeah, I think where I was growing up, being artsy was weird. I think it was like people thought you was gay or something, or you was damn gay or whatever. I remember if you got good grades, people thought you were homosexual. Really? Oh, yeah, dude. I think being brave enough probably, and when I was little to have somebody be unique.

Like.

You seem like you are, I think that would have beenand so maybe that's why I think it's really fascinating.

I think it's maybe the trauma, because I think about, Why do I think cigarettes are sexy? Because there's this sense of you don't care that you're damaging yourself. Oh, yeah. There's not a danger to it, but just it's self-destructive a little bit. I think maybe it's just like... I don't know. Some of my favorite bands and the music I listen to, there's some stuff that I'm like, Oh, they're good, but you could tell they don't have any trauma. I just don't listen to Happy Me. I don't like Happy. I'm not attracted to it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's what it takes. I know I've had trauma. I've seen some crazy things.

Do a lot of people mistake you and Dave Navarro ever or not?

No. But you know what I do hate? Because I really want to have bangs, and every time I've ever cut bangs, people come say that I look like Cher. And I don't think I look anything like Cher. I think it's because we have a deep voice, right?

Oh, yeah, that could be it. I don't know. I saw Cher at a game. She was running around with a young brother at the Super Bowl last year. Yeah? Yeah, she's dating like a 17-year-old, I think, or 18, sorry. But yeah.

Yeah, but I don't look like Dave Navaro.

Take that back. Sorry, you don't look anything like Dave Navaro. I was just trying to think if somebody were really ridiculous, they would run up and say that. Dude, the saddest thing, his mother got murdered.

I know. I did a portrait of her on him.

You did? Yeah. No way. Wow. The street I lived on is where it happened in Los Angeles. Oh, really? Yeah, and I always think about him all the time for some reason, I guess, because of that or something. He's the interesting guy. I never got to meet him.

I don't really know him that well. Yeah, yeah.

I never got to know him or know anything about him. But yeah, I just.

Remember that. I like Jane's addiction.

Oh, dude, yeah. Bro, a friend of mine threw his one-year-old kid's birthday at Perry Farrell's house, right? Oh, cool. I didn't know. I knew about Jane's addiction, but I didn't know Perry Farrell, right? Yeah. So I'm over there just lurking, loitering.

Wait, somebody's.

Kid's birthday? Yeah, my friend, they didn't have a lot of... In L. A. A. A. Lot of times if somebody finally gets a nice house, everybody starts throwing their children's parties there because it's a big enough space. Yeah, okay. They did it there and Perry Farrell was in there. I didn't know. I was just loitering around in the other room because I'm hanging out with a bunch of fucking one year old. Do you know what.

I'm saying? Well, I was just thinking about this the other day because it was my kid's birthday, right? He's super into Billy Idle right now. He loves Billy Idle. Not even Billy Idle, he loves Steve Stevens, which is the guitarist of Billy Idle. I just love that my kid thinks he's so cool. He has this little plastic red guitar that he'll be in front of the mirror at the house and he'll make the faces like Steve Stevens. I tattooed Steve a while back. I did a portrait of his beautiful wife on him. I texted him and I sent him a video of my son. In the video, I'm like, Hey, who are you? He's like, I'm Steve Stevens. This is the coolest.

There is a picture of him there.

Yeah, right? That's cool. Exactly. I'm like, Oh, I love it. See, my son gets it. My friends were like, Are you going to ask him to come? Because I did a rock and roll theme birthday party for him. Are you going to ask Steve Stevens to come? I was like, No, dude, I'm not going to do that because I feel like that's one thing that irks me about L. A. People, that they'll do that when they get weird about their kids and be like, I want to get... Without naming names, I've dated some people that put their kids on these weird pedestals and they'll use their name to get people to cut, you know? Right. I was like, No, I'm not going to. Also, it'll be weird if he just shows up and is just hanging out with a bunch.

Of-and a five-year-old if he's hanging out with a five-year-old.

Yeah, or it'll be boring for.

Him, right? Yeah. It's not him and Steve. Steve needs to take a walk and talk about their careers or whatever together. That part, I think, would be the strange part. I think it'd be really probably sweet for.

Your son. Even though I did ask Leifar, I'm like, Hey, what would you do if you hung out with Steve? I would take him to the pirate park because there's a pirate ship park there. I'm like, Oh, cool. Show him your sonic the Hitchhawk toy.

But.

One time, a long time ago, Kirsty Alley hit me up. Really? And was like, Hey, my son, True, is your biggest fan. And he's having... And this is when he was really little. He's an adult now. But we're having a Cat Monday themed birthday party. She showed me the cake and she's like, I know it's weird and annoying, but do you think you could come over and just surprise him? And I was just like, Kirstie is so cool. I loved her. And I was like, Should I go over there? I was tattooing that day and afterwards I just rolled up and it was just so awkward because it was just like, Hi. Then you're just like, I don't have any tricks. There's nothing to do.

There's nothing weird, I think, when you realize you don't have an actual.

Skill set. Yeah, things to do like big.

Balloons or something. Unless you start tattooing little kids. Dude, my best friend, Scott, his aunt worked with Kirsty Alley, and we went out to Maine one time.

That's where they live at, out on Ilesborough Island. Really? I said, We got to go out there and we got to go eat dinner at her house.

One day.

Oh, cool. It was pretty cool, I think. That's cool. My memory is not that great, but I think it was pretty great. Yeah. She had a tennis court that was in the ocean on these rocks. Really? It was literally in the ocean. It was just like... So cool. Being on Maine is so just like, Yeah, we'll see about that. It's got that fucking grit in it.

Yeah, Stephen King grit.

Yeah, a lot of fucking domestic abuse up there as well. I'm not pointing fingers, but you could point him anywhere up there and you'd be right. But yeah, I love that place. Portland, Maine, have you been there?

Portland? No.

One of my most favorite cities. Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't know it would be amazing, and it actually blew my mind. Is there a place that you really like?

I'm not going to say it because it's uber-goth.

Oh, it is? Transylvania?

No, I would say Prague was my favorite place. Oh, yeah. Just the Gothic architecture and stuff. Also I love Beethoven and I'm going to be a nerd right now, but one of his apartments is there. I went and took a picture in front of the apartment and everything. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm trying to think if I seen anybody's good death place or a place that's like... Have you ever done any weird rituals or something? I'm sure people think that you've done some.

No, but my friend and I, we used to collect pictures at cemeteries all around the world, which I thought was really cool. I think my two favorite cemeteries that I've ever been to, well, there's three, but obviously in Paris, there's the famous one where Edith Piaf and Oscar Wilde and everyone else is buried there. Then there's one in Argentina that is the coolest one ever. There's this huge waitlist to get buried there. But it's just the most monumental mosques or whatever they're called, but super cool. You walk and see all the architecture.

New Orleans is like.

That, too. I went to the New Orleans. It was good, but it was right after the Hurricane Katrina. A lot of the body parts and-Or back up.

Yeah. A lot of people coming back to probably get money from the government or whatever, even bodies were like, you see an arm coming out of the ground like, give me a check. It's just that city, I think, over there. What else do you want to do? You've had an interesting life, Kat.

Yeah.

And look, I know some of the things we say, like being able to leave Los Angeles and do that things, we've at least had enough being able to... I don't know. I sometimes wonder, does that seem egotistical?

I mean, I never want to put down LA because I love LA. I love the dirt there. I love my friends. I love a lot of aspects of it.

Yeah, and the weather being able to go to the beach if you want.

The beach.

Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's your arch nemesis.

Yeah, the sun. I forgot about that. Sorry. You had to put me back in that little box with a bow on it.

Yeah, I know. What if your name had been Cat vitamin D? That would have been so ironic.

Well, I thought what if you and I would have gotten married, then my name would have been Cat von von.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was like, Damn, this lady is interested in looking, but even crazier, she's got dyslexia.

Who's that starstarted to stutter.

The stutter, an Icelandic chick? Yeah, she's something. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. There's some pictures that we had of some tattoos that we wanted to just look at with you. Is that okay for a minute? Okay. I'm sure people have done this a lot.

Do I have to say bad things about him?

No, we can just say whatever you want. But I want to ask about your tattoos. You're getting inked out. What is it? Is there a term for it? It's really fascinating looking. It reminds me of one of those hairless cats.

Yeah, I have hairless cats. I've been blacking out all my tattoos. I'm in the process. I have almost 80% of my body done now.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, but it's not going to look like I'm wearing a scuba diving thing. I'm going to have these black flowers.

How long does this process take.

To do all that? I think I'm up to 40 hours now. But I've done.

The arms were... That's a work week.

Yeah, but in increments. I can't sit for more than two or three hours. There's this guy in Philly that he specializes in it. But it's funny because when I first got into tattooing was during a time when there was no tattoo shows or anything. So it was like you would not get hired if you had a face tattoo. You know what I mean? It was a different era. Then I think when certain celebrities started getting tattooed like the Drew Barry Moore's and the Angelina Jolie's, it started bringing it to the... If you had a tattoo, a cute one, it was okay. Then the TV shows blew up and then everybody has a tattoo now, and it's boring. But I feel like ever since I started blocking out my tattoos, I feel like I went back to the time where people hated tattoos again because people just do not like this. They're very confused by why I'm doing this. Every time I post progress shots, it's always like, Why are you doing this to yourself? This is so ugly.

I think for some reason, I didn't know what... I think it looks nice.

I do, too. I like the simplicity.

It's very interesting.

It's.

Almost fascinating in a strange way. It's like the inverse of something.

Yeah.

Exactly. It's like that car. It's like... Carb, I don't know what it is.

I don't like pain, so I just numb myself up and he sits there.

And tattoos me. When you say numb yourself, what do you put on? The analgesic or something? There's something where.

You do a pill. -a topical anesthetics, like a cream.

Does that work, really?

Yeah. I mean, it saves me a good an hour and a half or something like that. No, I can't do pills. I can't do anything.

Yeah.

Oh.

Yeah. I can't do nothing like that, boy. I don't do no pills, bubby. Now you're going to get 80% of your body done?

No, I'm going to do all of it.

Your whole body is going to be in dark ink?

Your.

Whole body is going to be in dark ink? Yeah.

But it'll have sections that are like, see.

How there's-Okay, so parts that aren't. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Wow, it's almost like... It reminds you of stained glass or something for some reason.

It'll look nice. People need to trust the process. It'll look good at the end.

Yeah. If anybody has an eye for something that's unique or trying to do something new, I like that. It seemed like you would be at least granted that ability to experiment.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Here's a video of you right here.

Yeah. So that's like my last session I did. Wow.

What is that? Boy, is that a damn.

Cake cutter? That's 40 needles.

God damn, brother, that thing.

Wow.

That's cool. Have your folks been to visit your new place?

My dad has, yeah. My dad's my contractor. Oh, he is?

Yeah. Oh, good. You can bitch at him easier. What about your mom?

She lives in Southern California.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Are you guys close or not?

Not as close, yeah. But I think when I had my son, I feel like she likes being a grandma.

Oh, she does? Yeah, I think so. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's one thing that's fascinating about kids. It gives your family a chance to regroup a little, I think. I remember when my niece was born, it just was the first time that our family started to have any resemblance of a family. Oh, really? Because we all had one thing in common that we cared about, and it was undisputable. And so it was like other things start to bloom from that a little bit.

That's cool.

Yeah, that must be traumatic hearing people's stories when they come to tattoo, because some people are coming with a story.

Yeah, every single one. I don't think I've ever tattooed somebody that just was getting tattooed out of boredom or anything like that.

Yeah. A lot of our therapists in the world are getting they're oversaturated with pain, I think, from other people. Yeah? What do you mean? I just think there's a lot of therapists, a lot of my friends that are therapists, they are oversaturated with people because even if somebody shares their story of their comfort or pain, it still lands on somebody. I find a lot of my friends that are therapists are starting to struggle because they are waterlogged with other people's trauma and sharing of it and stuff.

Yeah, it's going to be a heavy job.

Well, that's why I thought when you said it about tattoo work, because I never thought or tattoo artists, I'd never thought.

About that. Yeah. I love hearing people's stories, so I'm always very welcoming or I was welcoming to all that stuff. So it never bothered me. But I know that a lot of tattoos didn't want to.

Didn't want to hear it? Yeah. What would they do? Would you say quiet tattoo time only?

No, I just think that I think when the TV shows came out, people saw it as an outlet for therapy, which it can be, but some people aren't equipped emotionally to do that. For me, I'm like, I can talk about anything. I don't care. You're welcome. I ended up studying books on death and everything just so I could better understand grieving processes and stuff. I'm not a therapist by any means, but...

Well, these days anybody will listen to somebody caringly, I think is better than half. Sometimes it's better even than half the stuff we have out there. There's a lot of shit therapists out there, too, because anybody can do it.

You just.

Have to go to school and then they'll let you do it.

Yeah.

That's why I'm.

Crazy, dude. You can do that. Yeah, It don't know how much of that works. I don't know how.

Much of that works. But I mean, there's a lot of great.

Therapists, too. You have a lot of therapist friends?

Yeah, a lot of friends that are therapists, and you just start to see that they're getting... I start to notice a lot of them having a tough time, and I think a lot of that is just them taking on that people's pain. I'd never thought that tattoo artists hear a lot of it. I just never even thought about it.

I mean, different types, I'm sure. If you're just doing Dragons all day, I'm sure it's not the same experience.

But-what's the toughest part for somebody to get a tattoo on them?

What do you mean? Toughest? Like the hardest part?

Like the hard part? Like the hard part? Yeah.

I think some people assume that if you have a fatty area, it's not going to hurt as much, but it's more based on your nerve setup. Your spine, you're going to have a lot of nerves branching off of it. Places like your lower back or your butt, things like that are pretty sensitive.

Your butt cheek is sensitive?

I remember. The crease where my leg meets my butt was fire.

That seems scary.

The back of your kneecaps.

Do you think there's something about the pain of getting the tattoo that is also part of.

The-i don't know. I'm not one of those people. I know there's, kinky people. I never like. I was-.

That's not their thing.

I don't know. I have a hard time with it. I don't like it.

Anything else we can think about or talk about? Do you ever find that video on McCauley Colton? Yeah, I did. I just thought that this was interesting. I'd like to thank Brenda. You are absolutely everything. You're my champion. You're the only person happier for me today than I am. You're not only the best woman I've ever known, you're the best person I've ever known. You've given me just all my purpose. You've given me family. And after the birth of our two boys, you become one of my three favorite people. You're somewhere in there. But I love you. I love you so much. So, yeah, to wrap things up, and in the spirit of the holiday season, I just want to say Merry Christmas, you filthy animals. His life is like... There's a part in the beginning of that where he seems like he still seems like a kid and a man.

I never heard his speaking voice as an adult until now.

Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, Kat? Is there any other endeavors you think about in your world? Do you think you'll go back to tattooing or do you still do it? Is that a weird question? I don't know a ton about tattooing.

No, it's cool. Yeah, I think I'll always want to tattoo until my eyesight goes or something, but I don't know if I'm interested in doing... I stopped doing tattoos for money decades ago. It's been almost like 18 years or something. I just tattoo my friends. Oh, yeah? Yeah, because I think the dynamic can be pretty intense sometimes if you're tattooing people you don't know. Because you're like, we're in a room together intimately for hours.

But you're stuck in there. Sometimes it has been a nightmare being stuck in a room with somebody.

I'm never alone, but usually when I used to tattoo strangers, but now I just tattoo my friends.

Do people say they hire you for a specific guest tattoo? Does that thing happen as a tattoo artist? When you get to have a claim as a tattoo artist, do they say, I want you to come and do my tattoo. I want to hire you.

How do you book an appointment, you mean?

Specifically, does that happen? Some people might like... -no, it's a commission. -commission? -commission, yeah. -yeah.

I mean, it works that way. When I used to take appointments, it would be more like they'd have to show me what they wanted to get and have a little bit of the backstory, that thing. Then we would have a booking process.

But now do people, does it ever get a ring from a prince of naught and ham or something? Does that.

Happen to- Yeah, and I don't like that. I don't like when people want me to go to them. Because first of all, you're creating a sterile environment, and so I don't want to do that in your kitchen. I've only done that a few times for my friends friends, but something about like, I don't know, I don't like feeling like a stripper or something.

Oh, okay, there's something about that then. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. I would hate to be a stripper. I would be so bad at it. I don't like people seeing my butt. I think my butt, sometimes I think. Sometimes if I hook up with a woman or something, I'll walk out of the room backwards.

Really? Yeah. I don't.

Think there's anything wrong with it. What's weird with it? Nothing is wrong with it.

I think just - Just know that when you stand up after we're.

Done here. I think people just makes me nervous. I think because I know I look at people's butts sometimes, so I'm just like, Dude, so I just got to stop looking at people.

I'mi'm self-conscious about that stuff, too, to be honest. I feel like even in photoshoots, I always try and conceal myself somehow. I was like, hide behind things.

Yeah, I love to be hide. Dude, I play I can go seek. I go hide. I fucking leave. I'd go home, dude. My buddy's out there looking for me for three hours, bro. Fuck him, son. That's life. You better get used to it, buddy. Thank you so much, Cap Van Dee and everybody. You can just find her wherever you usually find people in. Okay. Best of luck with your new home. I want to see when that Tulip.

Garden is going to be done. I know.

Yeah, you have to come up. Yeah, what's the ETA on that thing?

I think in spring is usually when they come up. Yeah, boy.

That's going to be interesting. You got to get a good scarecrow in it. Yeah. Maybe not.

Yeah, you could.

You don't want to? It's fine. Yeah, that's all good. Kat, thank you so much.

Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me. Now, I'm just.

Floating on the breeze and I feel I'm.

Falling like these leaves.

I must.

Be cornerstone. Oh, but.

When I.

Reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found.

I can feel it in my bones.

But it's going to.

Take a.