Today's guest is that blue eyed bluegrass bad boy. You know it. He's a Grammy award winner. He has a new album renewal that is out now. Wherever you stream music, he's the pride of michigan. He just got back from the Grammys, so I'm looking forward to just to get in it. Know him. Today's guest is Mr. Billy. String that light on me.

I'll sit and tell you my story.

Shine on.

Me and I will find a song I will sing it.

Yeah. Thanks for coming in, bro.

No problem.

I appreciate it, man. Thanks for all the wild music, dude.

No problem, man. That's my pleasure.

How was the Grammys? You went to the Grammys?

Yeah. That was great. I brought my mom and dad out there.

No. And did you get to take them last time? I know you've been before.

Yeah, no, the last time I didn't bring my parents, but this time, the record that I was nominated for was actually. Well, I was nominated for three things, but the main one for me was this record that I made called me and dad, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's a record that I made with my dad, and he's the one that taught me how to play and taught me all about bluegrass and stuff and taught me how to wipe my ass and tie my shoes and everything. So to kind of grow up and make a record with him was just a big deal, man. It was something that was like a bucket list thing for me for a long time.

Like, it had been weighing on you a little bit, even.

Exactly. Yeah, because I've been on tour, like, when I was 19, I hit the road and haven't stopped. And I'm, like, 31 now and was like, man, time just is slipping by, and my dad's getting older, and I need to make this record. And then gigs just keep getting booked, and it's like, well, when am I even going to make it? And so eventually I just went to my manager and said, yo, let's block off time. I need to make a record with my dad. He's getting older, I'm getting old. It's time. We got to do this. So we did it, and it was awesome. We got nominated for a grammy, brought my folks out there and had them posted up at the sunset marquee and just, like, showed them a great time.

Yeah, that had to feel pretty amazing just because I think a lot of people want to have that moment where they kind of pay homage to a family member, somebody who's gotten them emotionally there.

Know, it's everything to me, my dad is know I wouldn't know anything about bluegrass music and Doc Watson and all the stuff that I cut my teeth on and is the reason why I have a good life today and a career and everything. It's all because of when I was a little kid. He was so inspiring. He's just sitting around picking, and he was like, everybody's kind of like, we'd have parties and stuff, and everybody would just be sitting around vibing and smoking a couple of joints, having a few beers, and my dad would be playing until he's, like, red in the face, and everybody's singing along and just. I was a little kid being like, damn, my dad's fucking cool as hell. You know what I mean? And I want to be like that when I grow up. And so I was a little shit already wanting to be a bluegrass musician. So it's like, what I've always wanted to do. So it's all because of him and bringing him out there and walking on the red carpet with him and shit. He's small town, old country folk. It was hilarious. We were doing this interview for Billboard or some shit, and the guy's like, oh, my God.

You guys look fabulous. Who are you wearing? And my dad's like, well, these are Levi's. And my son bought me this shirt, and I got my jacket at a western store, and I was just like, this is fucking the best thing ever.

What are you wearing? Hand me up.

Who are you wearing? Levi's.

This is my cousins.

The guy asked us to ask my dad if you could meet anybody here at the Grammys, who would you want to meet? And he said, tommy Emanuel, which is so awesome. He's just, like, an amazing guitar player.

Tommy Emanuel was.

Yeah, well, he know.

Oh, sorry. Bring him up. Yeah.

And then he ended up meeting Tommy that just. Yeah, it's crazy.

And who does Tommy play for? Wow.

He's just the man himself, man. He plays solo.

Oh, I'm not even familiar with him.

Oh, man, he's a killer. Yeah, he's a monster.

And he's in Australia, and. Yeah, I'm going to Australia in just a week. Or.

He'S like, you know, grew up kind of. He's sort of from, like, that Atkins school. Real. He knows a lot of. I mean, he can flat pick. He can play finger style. He can do everything, but he's a motherfucker on the guitar, man. There's a lot of good guitar players, I think. I don't know if Tommy lives around here, but there's this other guy, Jack Pearson, that lives here in town, too, that's, like, sort of. I don't know. I feel like a lot of people don't really know about him, but he's, like, the best guitar player I've ever seen in my life, I think.

Jack Pearson.

Jack Pearson. Let's get a look at him, man.

Oh, yeah.

He's literally the guitar player's guitar player. He's the man.

Jack Pearson. Yeah, man. He looks like an adventurous guy. What makes you say that? What makes you admire somebody so much on the guitar?

Well, I feel like when Jack Pearson touches the guitar, it's kind of, like, effortless for me. It's hard. It takes a lot of work, and I think people that are. When you see a true master sit down at their instrument, like, at the piano or on their guitar, whatever it is, it's just like breathing for them. Watching Jack Pearson's fingers go over the fretboard is just like, know. It's just so. And I'm just like, how's that even possible?

Wow. For you to say, how's that even possible? It's interesting to hear, like, somebody who a lot of people would consider amazing at something, how they then see somebody that's amazing at something.

I'm a player, and I've always been a player, but I'm not a master. I'm not a Jedi. Yet. There are people that are Jedis on their instruments, bro. And then they stick me in the room with them and say, go play. And I'm like, oh, fuck. I don't belong here. I recently just did this thing with Chris Thaley and Corey Henry, who are. Chris Thaley is literally MacArthur grant award winning genius. Like, the best in the world at his instrument.

What does he play?

Mandolin.

Oh, the mandolin. Yeah, man, there's a famous song, mandolin Rain. Right.

Mandolin Rain.

My friend Josh Kelly plays the mandolin. Yeah. It was originally by Hornsby and Range. Bruce Hornsby. And then I think he re. What is it called when you re.

Like, a remix or redo it?

Remastered or redid a song. Yeah, covered.

Yeah, he covered it.

Mandolin Rain. Yeah. So you're sitting there at the Grammys with your parents.

Yeah.

And you're nominated. Wow, bro. So that energy when you're sitting there. Because I never been there. Right. So when you're sitting there, is it like. And, you know, how long do you know that your award is coming up next or something?

Yeah. I mean, to be honest, we were kind of sitting there waiting for ours to come, and I would kind of go out and I got some nachos and shit and I would chill and I'd come back and are we up yet? Kind of thing. It was great then. The performances were great and we were having a good time. I have a hard time sometimes being in loud environments because my ears ring constantly and I'm super sensitive to. If I'm in a restaurant and somebody scratches their fork on their plate or something, dude, I'll snap.

Dude, I will literally call the fucking police on somebody who bangs their severe against their plate too loudly.

I don't know what it is.

I know what it is. It's unbelievable. Somebody would do that if there's a business that has chairs that when people pull them out, they make the most insane screeching sound and ruin the experience. And I will never go back to there. I will Google review there, but I will never return. There's a coffee place nearby. Somebody pulled a chair out the other day. I used to love that place. I will fucking not even drive by there in the daytime anymore. Ov I will go around because I don't even want to bring my energy over there where people are scraping stuff on the floor. Do you guys get burnt? Like you said, your ears ring? Is that a common thing amongst, I guess, musicians? I never even thought about that.

Yeah. I mean, some people get it. It's called, like, tinnitus or tinnitus.

Oh, yeah, I've heard of tinnitus.

Wait, how does it say that it's pronounced because the actual audiologist lady when I went there and the doctor lady, she calls it tinnitus, but I'm like, I don't get fucking arthritis. Yeah, it's called tinnitus, right?

Yeah, I don't get like, shingillicus or whatever. Or like, in a wheelchair.

Tinnitus. No way.

Tinnitus.

Tinnitus.

Tinnitus.

That's what it says.

Tinnitus. Oh, tinnitus, I think is something you get in Memphis, probably.

It's a little bit more tinnitus.

Yeah, but that lady's the same lady in my car. That lady is not. I don't trust that lady.

Yeah, she can't even tell. Like, when I play a song, she can't even recognize it on the fucking phone.

She can't recognize a my sister's name.

Okay?

I can't call my sister anymore because that lady won't let me and she can't even get me to Murfreesboro. So, yeah, I'm out. Do you know in advance at the Grammys, if you're going to win or not or you don't know?

No, we have no, it was just to me, it was like all about bringing my folks there and having that experience. We went the last time. It's just an honor to be nominated and to be even spoken in the same sentence as the other nominees like Molly Tuttle and Sam Bush and Willie Nelson was in that. It's just for me, it's like to even be in a classmate of these people is like, cool. I'm in the same class. At least I'm good. That's enough honor for me. All I've ever wanted in my life is just to be, like, a respected musician. And that's, I guess, what it really is. The Grammys and stuff is just being recognized by your peers. So it's a great honor, but it's really nice to win. Like, I won one and it's cool, but it's not why we do know.

Oh, yeah.

I would have loved to gotten my dad one.

Yeah.

But Molly Tuttle's record and her band and what she's been doing, she's been working her ass off.

I got to tune into her.

Yeah.

I'm so glad you're here to say some of these names because I start thinking I got to get into more new music and I'm just not getting enough of it, man.

There's a lot of great bluegrass happening and I think there's, like something happening right now where people are, like, getting back into bluegrass again or like banjo music and kind of hillbilly music.

Well, I think people are generally. I think there's a general feeling in the universe for me, anyway. I know it is that I want to get back to something that feels, like, less industrialized. I want to get something back to something that feels a little bit more connected to something human inside of me.

Man. I think that it goes in circles almost. If you think about, I mean, back in the day, like, let's say in the early sixty s and stuff, there was a time where blue moon of Kentucky was like the biggest song out.

Wow.

It was like one of Morgan Wallen's songs or something. It was like the biggest hit. It was like Miley Cyrus Flowers, blue moon of Kentucky, keep on shining. There was a time where Bill Monroe's song was like the biggest song, know, elvis covered it. That was on the b side to one of, you know, that releases. Yeah, but. And then it's kind of like rock and roll came out and stuff started getting really electric. Drums, all this stuff started happening. And then in the 60s, there was, like, this sort of whole barefoot sort of hippie movement where people wanted to get organic and back to the earth again and play acoustic instruments and feel their feet on the grass. And then the 70s happened, which was just fucking, in my opinion, just one of the best eras of music, really, in everything, man. I feel like people were just making kick ass records then. I feel like the records sounded good. The way they were recorded was just like, the gear at that time was just killer. And I don't know, there's something about when I go through my collection, the records from the 70s stand out as, like, for one thing, people were.

When they were in the studio, they were, like, working hard. Maybe they just had really good cocaine or something.

Yeah, they probably did. I mean, it's sad. Our kids can't even get good cocaine in this country anymore.

It's kind of fucked.

It's unbelievable. It was a decent upper. I mean, you'd have a trucker would get there. Yeah. He could get his load done and get home to see his family. And now he can't even do it because he's overdosed somewhere.

Shame, man.

Yeah, he's on those gas station uppers, which don't do anything.

Yeah, or he's stopping every five minutes to do a bump, because this shit ain't anything. And he can't even make his haul. That disco shit used to make the whole trip, man. You feel like a dentist. You just got back from the fucking dentist. After that, know, your whole body felt.

Like you got a molar pulled out. Like they pulled a molar out of your brain, man. Yes. That stuff was probably so good. I bet one little line would get you, like, guaranteed to get you to Atlanta.

I'd write an entire album. I'd write an fucking. Yeah, man. I'd be like, well, let's triple this guitar part. Let's have three drummers. I need more know. And let's record it all to tape. And it's going to sound incredible.

I need a mean or. I'm sober now, but I would do a couple of grams or whatever. And this shit's got so much Sherwin Williams back end on it.

It's like, it's just not worth.

Next thing, I'm applying to do drywall.

It's like, it's just not worth it anymore. I think I held out for the last couple of years. I was like, okay, someday I'm going to come across something good. But it just never happened. And I was like, okay, it's actually over. It's not worth it anymore. Especially with all the fentanyl and shit people are dying from. I know people that have just gone out to just have a harmless little party and ended up dead because they did, like, a line or something. It's really.

It's horrible.

Yeah.

Oh, that's unbelievable. And the fact that that family never got prosecuted or that started that opioid epidemic, that didn't help anything either. Sorry.

The sackler. Oh, man.

Dude, I wake up. I think half of America wakes up furious about that every day that that family got off the hook.

I mean, I grew up in a small town. A lot of my homies were. At that time, you had people stealing from their grandmas and shit, stealing their tvs and shit to sell, to get money to buy oxies and shit. And I remember doing that shit a little bit. I'd do it because it was just around. I mean, like I said, I grew up in a small town. I just never really had any rules.

Where were you at?

Well, I grew up in this little town called Muir.

Muir?

Population 666, last time I checked, which is hilarious. Yeah.

John Muir.

No, I don't know. Just Muir. And it's right outside of this town called Ionia, in Michigan.

Ionia. Maybe I've heard of it.

Yeah. Will you look up the population of mewer, Michigan?

And Ionia was probably a slave town. I'm guessing just by the name of it.

It's a prison. There's like. I mean, when I was living there, there's like seven prisons there. Most people either work at the prisons or in them. Yeah. Are getting hauled off to them. There we go. I told you, dude. Dude, 666 people. It's a small ass town. Ionia was, like, the town, like, where I went to school and all that. Why are we talking about Ionia again?

We're just saying. What was it like, fenty?

Oh, yeah.

People getting oxies.

Man, when I was in school and shit, I was a terrible student. I had a handful of teachers. My home life was kind of colorful at the time.

And your dad was a music guy you spoke about?

Yeah. My parents are both just, like, really awesome. They're kind of old hippies, but they're like hippies and redneck. Half hippies and half redneck in a way. And it's like they're just kick ass. They taught me about so much good music. My mom and shit taught me about everything from Hendrix to the Beatles and Zeppelin. And my dad taught me about Bill Monroe and Doc Watson and flattened scruggs, and about fishing they were different parents. And during the time when I was in middle school and high school and stuff, like I said, stuff was kind of crazy at home.

You mean at the house?

Yeah. And we're all like, my parents are recovering addicts. Aren't we all?

Yeah, I am. Yeah. I was at a meeting 2 hours ago.

Yeah.

Well good.

That's awesome, man.

Yeah, no judgment at all. Half our audience is there.

No. And man, they're doing so great these days and we all are too. It's like we've all sort of made it through some crazy shit and we made it out the other side and we went, holy shit, how the hell do we do that? But all that is to say that I'm super proud of my parents these days and I'm proud of myself. We all made it out of that shit. It was crazy.

Did you struggle too? Sometimes?

I don't want to say that I never struggled because I was never a hardcore addict to anything. I mean, I like, I haven't drank in seven years, but even then I guess I'm an alcoholic. I don't know when to stop every once in a while. It's not like I even drank all the time or anything, but every once in a while it's like, man, we had a good gig. I remember the last night I drank was like June 16, 2016 and we had this killer gig and it was crowd was apeshit and we sold a bunch of merch. And it's like, yes man, let's go to the bar. Like drinks on me. And we were all drinking. I did coke that night. I was drinking wine, beer and liquor and I didn't eat anything like for a day and a half. And it was just crazy. So I woke up the next morning and I had the worst hangover ever. And I was like, oh. And we got in the van. We had to drive like 5 hours to make it to the next gig to get there by three so we could load in, sound check and play our gig.

But I thought I was good to go. And then when I got in the van, I go, oh, hold up. And I went and puked by the bushes or whatever, got back in the van ten minutes later, I'm going, oh fuck, pull over. And then every ten minutes it took us 7 hours to drive the five hour drive because I had to stop and puke. We were late for load in and sound check. We had to set up our gear in front of the audience. All just hungover. It was like embarrassing. And it was all because I was so drunk the night before and I was like, I'm never doing this again. And I haven't drank since.

Well, they're probably weighed on something. Yeah. Sometimes when there's a moment, I feel like, for me, anyway. I know, and it just sounds like it. Like, if there's a moment where you can get enough reflection, where it costs you something that means something to you, like, in a moment, my career was just.

I could see it. It's like, man, if I don't fuck this up, I could actually turn this into something. Maybe it was, like, at the point where it's like, I shouldn't blow this.

Dude, that's crazy. Because that kind of moment doesn't happen to a lot of people where you just have that perfect thing where you're on stage, you're loading in. You're like, fuck, we're late. It's because of me.

It started as like, okay, I'm not drinking. At least for the rest of the weekend.

Yeah. Shout out to everybody that's ever said that.

You know what I mean?

Okay. At least till next weekend or whatever.

Till this baby's two.

Yeah. And then. So that turned into, well, I'm not drinking for the rest of the week. And that turned into two weeks, months. Two years. Seven years.

Yeah.

Wow. You know what a big moment for me was? When I realized how many times I had slept in the hotel room with them little mini bottles in my fridge and I never even fucking thought about it.

Yeah.

One day I was in there and I reach in there to grab a coke or something and I realized that I was reaching right past a bottle of Jack Daniels. And then I realized how many other times I had done that before. And then I never even fucking thought about, well, I'm all alone in my hotel room right now. I could just fucking. Nobody would know. And I've never even thought about it. It's like, wow, it's really kind of out of the back of my mind. That's so good.

I think people have started to evolve. I was looking at a chart the other day that drinking has gone. It's not as big on college campuses that. It's just that drinking is kind of. It started to dissipate or whatever. The desire for it.

Did you go to college?

Yeah, I went to LSU and we were drinking over there. I think I was kind of like you. I didn't love getting all wasted, but.

Oh, I fucking loved it. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the thing, is when it was going down, right, and it was like, wait a minute, man. Like, it was the celebration thing. It's like, man, you get a couple of Indians, like, all of a sudden it's tasting good. Even the more I drink, the better it tastes. And that's the other thing, too, is like, I never drank for people drink wine and they drink these heady beers, these hoppy beers and everything. Like whispering hooker, man. I grew up drinking fifths of McMasters and Captain Morgan and didn't. I never gave a fuck about what it tastes like. It's like, I just want to get blacked out. That's the goal.

Pirate syrup, baby. That shit will get you, bro.

Yeah.

Young adults in us drinking less than in prior decades. I feel that, man. Let me see what it says here. It says 62% of adults under age 35 say they drank down from 72% two decades ago.

How does that correlate to teen pregnancy?

That's a great question. I don't know, but I think they should put birth control in some of this white claws. I was going to say probably. I wish meth had, like, a birth control aspect to it, but I would go, white claw.

I think it does. I think when you smoke meth, just everything dries up.

Yeah, maybe that's true. I never smoked. I always wanted to smoke crack. I never got to smoke.

Um, did you ever smoke it? Oh, yeah.

Really?

Oh, fuck yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

Really?

Oh, fuck, yeah.

No way, dude. I didn't know that you smoked crap.

I wasn't like, on.

Yeah, I wish. Yeah.

I grew up in a town where there was nothing to fucking do, man. I skateboarded a little bit. I played guitar, but it was like a dead end. It felt like there was nothing to do, so everybody did drugs. I was 16 the first time I ripped a crack rock and it was fucking right.

God, I want that.

And you want to know what else is? I've always considered myself to have a pretty strong will. Like I said, I've been around meth and heroin and shit, growing up. All my crack and lots of coke and whatever, growing up. And I never got addicted to any of it. I've been around a lot of tweakers and shit. I've seen some crazy shit, bro. I'm saying I used to live in a house where they were sleeping on my couch and shit. Fucking toothless sores on their face, fucking cigarette butts on the floor. Fucking tweakerville, man.

Tweakerville and just taking apart stuff.

Oh, yeah. Motorcycles in the house. No, I'm saying yeah, there used to be this guy named Speed, bro. He lived in this old farmhouse out on Charles Road. And you walk in, it was an old farmhouse. It was like a barn that was just falling down in the backyard. You walk in, and there's, like, tvs, like, stacked on top of each other, and you can see one's, like, a camera on the front porch. One's just, like, static. And homie's got a motorcycle ripped apart in his living room with, like, folger coffee cans with nuts and bolts everywhere, and he's, like, ripping out of a light bulb. We used to get him a box. It's called getting a box. What we used to do is you get a box of pseudophed, and you bring it to him or something. He's the cook. He'd give you a quarter gram or something. Wow. Because they were running out of people that could get pseudofed, because all them tweakers were on the list at Rite Aid and shit and Walgreens and shit. And saying, this guy's been in here. He bought 13 boxes of pseudophed last week, so don't sell any more pseudophed to this guy.

So the cooks got to the point where they would give you a quarter gram or so for a box.

Yeah. And is a quarter gram a lot.

Of that's enough for a good weekend, right there it is. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's like, whenever I hit that shit, I was up for two days straight. There was a time where I played guitar for 48 hours straight, and I didn't put it down. Nah, I swear to God. And I played pretty much the same riff the entire time. It was like I was just holding my guitar, and my fingers were just going, and I was just like, wow. And it was like an orchestra was coming out. It was like I was writing shit that I never could have imagined. It was like a beautiful mind type situation.

Oh, my gosh, bro. And you feel like that was drug fueled, or did.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, so much so that I can't even sit here and say that I'll never smoke meth again because I might want to do it in a controlled environment as a creative experiment.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Because, dude, I swear to God, I think I could write an album in three days. That's, like, the craziest shit ever. Obviously, I'm not, like, condoning it. It's fucking terrible. Don't do it. But I am saying that those 48 hours when I was playing guitar straight, it was like I worked some cobwebs out in my brain. That was kind of crazy. And, dude, this was crazy. So I'm sitting upstairs, and this was the first time I ever smoked meth. And I was 16, and I was upstairs. I lived on Main Street. I was in the band. My drummer, Carl. Shout out, Carl and Jordan.

Oh, man.

These are my homies from. These are my homies from back. Uh.

And they passed.

No, no, they're still around.

Okay. Yeah, my bad, then.

I mean, Jordan almost fucking passed away. He needs to fucking keep his nose clean. God damn it. Yeah.

Amen. And so does everybody.

Yeah. But, no, I lived in this house, bro, on Main street in Ionia, which is tiny little town. And we were renting this place, right. But there was renovations happening, and I'm like, man, why is this guy coming over at fucking 07:00 in the morning? Start banging on shit? It's fucking seven. Sun's not even barely up yet. So one of my buddies comes over, who's tweaker, and figures out that this guy, the handyman, who's working on this house that we'renting is holding. And I'm like, well, if you guys are going to smoke here at my house, I want in. Because I was just curious about what was.

Yeah, what is it?

Well, it was like, my parents were into it at the time, and I was like, I want to know what the hell's going on.

Oh, yeah, do some. Yeah, that makes sense. If somebody.

I mean, that's why I had to. My biological father died from a heroin overdose when I was two years old. That's why I had to do heroin. I was like, what was so good that took my dad from me.

Oh, man.

So I had to figure it out. And I met the green reaper and shit. He tapped me on the shoulder and was like, dude, it was like, man, we're jumping stories. I got so many of them, but.

I didn't know this man. Hey, I'm sorry to hear that, dude. Well, it kind of breaks my heart, but it's interesting that I'm curious about wanting to try.

Let me just finish the tweaking for 48 hours.

Yeah, let's start there, dude. Finish that. Fuck.

I was upstairs.

Yeah, a lot of people here do home renovations.

So this dude was. He was working at all hours of the night and shit. I'm like, what the fuck? So my budy figured I was tweaking, and they're like, you got a light bulb? And I'm like, yeah. And so they showed me how to take the little silver thing off the bulb and you can take it out, and then you put some warm salt water in there and swish it around. You get all that white shit off the bulb. Then you got a nice clear bulb. So then you kind of just tap some shit down in there and you can burn it and smoke it. So whatever. I hit the shit.

Whoa.

All of a sudden, where's my guitar? I want to play guitar so bad. So for two days I sat there and playing. Two fucking days. I didn't eat. I don't even think I pissed. It was insane. And then two days later, somebody finally snaps me out of it by knocking on my door. It was my friend Brendan, Brendan Lauer. And I hear the knock on the Slider door and like, oh, fucking. I put my guitar down on that. I'll be right back. I hate to leave. You know, I wanted that guitar so bad still after two days straight of playing it. And I go open the door and my friend Brennan's there. He's like, what the fuck's all over your face? And I'm like, what? And I go in the bathroom and I look in the mirror and my face is all green. And I'm like, oh, fuck. I thought it was, like, from the meth or something. It was like, oh, no, my skin's turning green. And it was from, like, the. I was playing my guitar for so long that the bronze on my strings had, like, gone to my fingers and I had touched my face.

Wow.

And so I had green shit on my face from my guitar strings. And I was so twacked out, I didn't know what the fuck was going on.

Have you heard any other stories? If people are like that, are they doing sex? Are they doing like.

Man, I think when you're tweaking, what do you like to do with your hands or anything? Do you like to string bees? Do you like to paint? Do you like to. I mean, besides just like, crank one out?

Yeah. And that's over quickly. And then you're just sitting there.

Well, maybe on speed. I don't know. It might take a while.

Oh, yeah.

And you have to work for it. And then it's, like, even better.

Yeah, well, that's probably like cocaine. Yeah. I think if I was all sped up, I would just look out the windows. Make a lot of promises to myself. Look out the windows.

Make sure those silhouettes aren't real.

Organize things. Whatever. That's the Vegas term ever. I'm going to organize things. That was always a term that I.

Would use, dude, that's one thing people do, too. I was at this crack house one time that was fucking spotless. It was insane. Me and my friend went over there just to, we were going to smoke or whatever, and I had this homie that knew all the man. He was just like, connected somehow with. Like, he would just go into a new city and all of a sudden he would be like, oh, there's our guy. How do you know that that random man on the Bicycle is the guy?

Yeah. Some people are just, they got that fucking, that drug dog in.

They're street smart.

Yeah, they're german shepherds.

Yeah, man. And so I had a buddy that was like that. And so I ended up. There was one night I smoked crack with a fully pregnant lady, and that's how shitty that stuff is, really. I mean, dude, crack is the worst fucking thing in the world to me. It's instantly addictive. Like that first night I did it. Like I was telling you when I was 16, I've always considered myself to have a pretty strong will. And like I was saying, I've been around shit forever, but when I hit crack, I was like, all right, I know this shit's pretty crazy. I'm going to take one hit and that's it. And then, so I took a hit, and then it was like, boom. I was like, oh, holy shit. It was, like, crazy.

What does it feel like? Does it feel like.

Felt like I got hit in the head with a frying pan. Body life. Orgasm.

Wow.

It was like, bam. And it was like, just euphoric, like, all of a sudden. I don't know, man. I shouldn't be on here describing it. No, and look, it's going to seem like I'm like, well, tell us the downside of it.

The downside of it was so that people know that. So if anybody right now is trying to uturn to go get some crack.

Or whatever, no, don't do it. Because it's. Oh, man. I was like, I'm just going to take one hit and that's it. And like I said, I got strong will. I can do this. I take one hit. That pipe didn't make it around the circle before. I was like, man, I hope there's enough till I can get another one. And I was really nervous. It was like, man, I hope there's enough. And so then it was like, do I have any more money? It was like, how much money do I got? Could we get some more right immediately.

Without you even thinking 50 seconds? Right. So it hijacks your thoughts even immediately.

I was ready to sell shit. Just whatever it takes. Everything. And then the next day, I go to school, right? And I got this little rock left over sitting on my desk. And I go to school the next morning, and I didn't make it 40 minutes into fucking first hour before I'm sick, Ms. Julie. I got to go home. I signed myself out, went home and smoked that rock because I couldn't fucking stand the thought of it sitting there on my nightstand at home. And I'm sitting in school, and I'm going, fuck. I know, right? At home, there's that rock, and I could go smoke.

It's just looking for you. Wearing a fucking probably see through bra, dude.

Yeah, it was terrible.

I couldn't handle it. I couldn't handle it, man. I'll tell you why, Billy. Because I remember, even if I got some cocaine, right, I would get some cocaine and then I would go home. It's just me and my is. This is the relationship I'm in at the moment.

That's not good.

It was bad. And I would do a little bit of cocaine, and then I would be like, all right. Some of my friends hit me up, like, let's go do something. Like, all right. And then I would do some more, and then I would start walking out the door, and I'm like, let me go back in and just make sure I did some. It was like, what is that even. That was a real thought in my head. That's not even a legitimate. Let me make sure I did some. I'm still pulling it out of my nose from the. And I'm like, hey, bro, you should go make sure you did some.

What the fuck, dude?

That's not really interesting just to even think about how it hijacks our thoughts, man. Because your thoughts come out of nowhere. So it's like, if it gets above those, it's a fucking. It just shows the power of it.

Oh, man.

Yeah. I think to say that kind of stuff is important, but how'd you get out of it then?

Well, like I said, I would do it for a night, and I'll be like, okay, never again for at least six months or something. Whether it was math or crack or heroin or whatever, I would do it. And then I would be like, okay. It's like, I know that I can't do it more than one day in a row. Where speed, if you do it, I would smoke one little bit, and I'm good for the weekend. It's like, I'd be up for two days off a couple of hits or whatever. Wow, dude, that shit's really crazy too. Like what you were talking about, looking out the window and seeing silhouettes and shit. There was one time where I went over to miwer to hang and me and my buddy Jake were like. We tweaked from Thursday to Monday, and by the third or fourth day of being awake and getting no sleep, it was like my friend Jake, who I know well, and I'm sitting right there next to him, but I'm looking at him and it's not his face on his face, it's like somebody like some guy named Brandon or something. He looks like a different guy.

And I'm like, jake? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, you're not Jake, though. Like, the fuck? I'm looking right at you and you start to really get. After being awake for a couple of days, I remember looking out my window and seeing silhouettes of people standing by the tree and behind the car and stuff. And you think people are watching you and shit. Paranoia has got to be one of the worst fucking things that can happen.

Yeah. There's a comedian, Shane Moss, and he wanted to do a documentary, I think, and I'm paraphrasing, an amazing comedian, great guy. Go see him if you get a chance. And he was on here once and he was talking about. He was trying to make a documentary about doing, I want to say it was mushrooms, right. But he got so deep into it, he started getting paranoid, and he started thinking the documentary crew that he had hired to shoot the documentary of him were that they were like ops, like they were like government. He started to go down a real rabbit hole, Billy.

No.

And then he started to give clues to the camera so that when he watched, whoever watched it would know that he knew he was getting deep, bro.

I think there's a level to it because psychedelics is another thing that I've dabbled in, and I think psychedelics is a very positive thing.

Yeah.

I am an advocate for psychedelics. I'm not an advocate for meth, crack, oxycontin, cocaine, any of those things. Little mushrooms. I think it's take a hit of acid and if you're brave, like a hit of DMT or something. But it's not for everybody. I don't think psychedelics are for everyone, but I think it can help a lot of people. I think a lot of people would benefit from eating a mushroom stem and going and sitting down by the riverbank pitching a tent, making a fire, and hanging out with some friends and looking up at the trees and staring at a bug and realizing I've hung out with. Whenever you're around the Grateful Dead camp, Bob Weir and Bill Kreutzman and some of those cats. For instance, when I was out in Hawaii hanging out with Bill Kreitzman and those guys, a lot of the people that are just around the friend group, they're all like. And I noticed this while I was there, because these people are doctors and intellects. They're all adults who are still children, but they're not immature. And it's like you see this 45 year old woman who has many degrees sitting there staring at an aunt and being like, wow, almost like a child.

And I think it's just a great thing to not lose that. Maybe some people get it without drugs. I know my banjo player, Billy failing. He might take a hit of weed, like, every once in a while, but he doesn't do anything. And I'm, like, talking to him about that, like, man, when I take some mushrooms or whatever, I just feel know. I feel like psychedelics can make me feel like one with nature and stuff like that. And he's like, man. Well, I get the same thing when I go on a three day long hike and sleep on the ground because him and his wife go on these outdoor long hikes and stuff for, like, weeks at a time, and they sleep on the ground and grand canyon or we're out national parks and shit.

Yeah, and being lost. But it's like organized.

Go shit in a hole for a week. You get one with nature pretty quick without drugs. Yeah, but taking some shrooms or acid or something can really get you there a lot quicker.

Well, shrooms are a connector, I think. And even fungus itself is like an expansiatory type of thing. It's that thing that fills in the space. It's like a caulk almost in a. Definitely. I think that mushrooms are great. I've always thought that, yeah, you can get a little crazy and then your buddy's fucking. Somebody's doing the Heimlich maneuver on him at a damn waffle house or something, and the guy's hitting on your friend or something and he's a kid or whatever. But the biggest problem, I think, is you just run the risk of people not being able to do it in some sort of control or moderation.

I was just going to say the moderation.

That's the key with everything. But we're getting more to the point now. You're seeing, like, I have people that hit me up that I say, hey, man, you should work with this therapist. They do, like, mushroom guided therapy, right? And you see a lot more, like, ketamine guided therapy, right? And ayahuasca adventures. You're seeing things where I think people are getting away from the idea of, like, I just want to poison myself, like, with alcohol, which is a fun poison. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not condemning anybody that drinks. I would be drinking if I didn't go buy cocaine and end up trying to.

Yeah. No, if I was a responsible adult, I would drink, too, but I'm not.

Right. Yeah, I'm not responsible anyway. But, yeah, I just think we're seeing, like, kind of astray from that a little bit. This is yours, man.

Yeah. You brought this for me, man? Yes, sir.

This is mine.

I brought you a couple cases of it.

No, really?

Yeah, bro.

This can is great, man.

It's made by Schwartz Brewing company, which is a place where I celebrated my 21st birthday party, actually. And I used to play gigs there all the time. And they're just my homies from back home. And since I don't drink, we wanted to do a collab anyways, but we made this sparkling. It's like a hop water, bro. It's good. It is good. I love it.

And this is the name of thirst mutilator. Wow.

You want to hear a DMT story or two?

Yeah. And then I'll trade you one, and then we'll get back into your music. We don't have to get back in anything, but I don't want people to forget that you're a Musician.

Psychonaut. Billy strings.

Psychonaut. That's what Shane Moss was.

A psycho. Nice.

But, yeah, let's go down a DMT story.

Well, because I feel know since I'm talking about all the other bad bullshit that I've done, I need to kind of clear my name here and tell you about some of the better stuff that has happened to me because of my experiments.

Yeah, it's important.

When I was living in Traverse City, it was just, man, my budy, Seth, he's gone now, too. That sucks because them fucking opiates, man. God, his ass. But he was my budy who always had whatever. He was, like, into the EDM scene and shit. And he would just have a backpack, which. Oh, yeah, I got whatever, bro. So he would come over and whatever. One time he had this DMT. Let me get a little bit. Let me get a little bit. I'll buy some off you. Right? So he hooks me up with a little bag. And that bag sat on top of my dresser for fucking, I don't even know, six months. Yeah. Because that's the other thing about psychedelics that I'll say is, like, it's not something to play around with. If you're not in the headspace for it, don't do it. And I've learned that lesson from psychedelics. It's almost like dipping your toe in the pool or something, and it's like, don't do that. You know, if you want to go swimming or not. Do you or don't you? Right. Do you want to stay dry or do you want to get wet?

Right, okay. Yeah.

And if you're wearing something that can't get wet, then fucking don't.

Yeah.

Then just chill.

Yeah.

Like, if your attitude is an attitude that can't get wet right now. Yeah. Then just stay on the bank.

Yeah, exactly. It took me six months to gain up the courage to hit this DMT. And one day I came home from work and there was nobody home. My roommates were gone. I knew they weren't going to be back because they were downstate and I had the house to myself. The sun was shining. I was like, you know what? I'm feeling pretty good today. It's like, I'm happy the sun's out. Fuck it, nobody's home. Like, I'm just going to rip this DMT. Let's try it.

Amen.

And I was also ignorant at the time about what it even really was, and I didn't know what to expect, so I wasn't really scared of it. Now. I haven't done it in years, even though it's been so enlightening and helpful. I haven't done it in years because of how intense it is. But at this time, I was, like, 21 or something, just like, man, I'm just going to rip this DMT. So I sat on the couch and took a big hit of this, and I was listening to this. It was actually the old brother where art thou? Soundtrack. I'll fly away with Killian Welch and Emmy Lou and Alison Krause and Mike Compton and all these instruments and stuff. And I hit this, and all of a sudden I'm kind of floating and the instruments are surrounding me, and it's all this beautiful kind of shit happening. And I start to see this blue light, and I'm like, whoa, what's that? It's like this blue light way up ahead in the distance. And it's getting closer and closer to me. And all of a sudden it's like, whoa, it's a chick. And I'm like, I can see this lady.

And she's swirling and dancing, and she starts murmuring this ancient language that is brand new, something that this language has only been used right now for this particular occasion, but it's ancient, and I understood every word. Somehow, she's telling me this information as she's spinning and twirling and dancing for me. And she's wearing this skirt. And every time she twirls, her skirt kind of twirls like that, and it's made of, like, eyeballs. And then she does a 360, and it's made of ears and then teeth and then hair, noses and pupils, and just all these different facial features. Her skirt was made up of thousands of them. Every time she turned, it would change. And she's getting closer and closer to me. And then she got close enough to me, and she kind of caressed me in a way, like, put her arms around me, and it was like, are you good? I'm like, I'm good. And then we went. Shot me out of the atmosphere, out of outer space, through this placenta, where we kind of broke through. And then it was like we were on this beautiful pink mountaintop overlooking this vast everything.

Damn.

And she was kind of standing me on top of the mountain, pointing and looking and showing me everything. These are all the universes. Notice how they're spinning and working together like a gear, like a watch, like a clock, like a movement. And then she zapped us down super zillow or something. It was like all the universes spinning. And then she took me down to our universe and showed me all the galaxies doing that same thing. And then she took me to our galaxy, showed me all of the planets doing it, then to our planet, and showed me the wind and water and currents. And then to a grain of sand. It was like a fractal out from everything. And everything is spinning and working together. Yeah. Doing the dance. Yeah. What you do affects your neighbor, basically. She told me, it was like, you need to be strong in yourself. You need to work on yourself, work on your mental health, work on. You know, she didn't say all this shit, but you caught it from. That's what I got, is like, you need to work on yourself. We're all links in a chain. We're all together.

Me and you are the same, bud. And we need to be the strongest links that we can be for everything. For not just humanity, but all of everything and what that is to be a strong link. You got to work on yourself and basically just not be a dick and dive down inside of yourself and figure out what it is.

Why?

Are you an asshole? Or how can you change to be better? How could you be a kinder, better person to your neighbor, to Mother Nature, to yourself? To yourself especially. That's how you do it, right? That's how you find the strength. Yeah.

Are you struggling with keeping your website up to date and running your business? Now you can binge all the web design and digital marketing you want with modify. Modify helps you with unlimited web design and redesigns. Unlimited website updates. Twenty four seven support digital advertising. Plus you get a designated designer. Consider updating your existing website or getting a new one. Visit modify.com theo for 50% off the last website you'll ever need. That's modify modiphy.com theo for 50% off the last website you'll ever need. Yeah, man, it's fascinating. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that experience, man. Yeah, well, it's just interesting, the relationship that we have with ourselves. We've outsourced our own responsibility. A lot of times it feels like, it's almost like I look entirely at medicine or at other people for my responsibility, for me to be okay, right? Which I'm not saying that we don't need other people.

We need help.

And we do need help. We do need therapy. We need communication. And sometimes we need medicine. But I think that we can fall into a trap, or I know that I have. That's what I should just say. I've fallen into a trap at times where I've completely outsourced if I'm going to be okay onto other people and things that the relationship that I have with myself is. So it's not even there a lot of times, or it hasn't been that I'm reliant completely on if other things are going to make me okay, as opposed to, like, I think there was a time, probably a long time ago, maybe, and I may romanticize the past sometimes, but where I felt like people had a bit more like agency or something, it's called with themselves, where they had more of a relationship with themselves and they reflected on themselves more and reflected on experiences and behaviors and just had a little bit more probably say in how they were doing or how they were feeling or what was going on with them. And I don't even think we've done it on purpose. I just think a lot of it's the way our society has kind of shaped things.

Well, nowadays you just look down at your fitbit or whatever. My heart's beating. Everything's good.

Yeah, my budy has a fat bit. My budy? Burt Kreischer, he looks at it and it just tells him he's fat.

Oh, man.

God, bro, you gotta.

Get him, like, a mechanical watch. Yeah, we need something.

Well, we need to get him a meth addict to take that thing apart, first of all.

Put it back together.

Yeah. So when people were on methamphetamines, if they take that stuff apart, what are they then looking to do with it? Why do people take that kind of stuff apart?

I don't know. I think maybe to put it back together better. But what I was saying is, whatever you do, if you did speed, I feel like that's what you do. It's like people I knew, they would string beads. I'm making necklaces, making jewelry, or they would draw pictures or write lyrics or poetry. It's kind of like, whatever you do, if you have, like, a little thing that you like to do.

Right.

I feel like that's a great activity. Oh, dude. Okay, check this out. So there was this place, Barkus park, where I grew up.

Barkas. It's for dogs.

Well, B-A-R-K-U-S. Barcus Park. Barkas park in Lyons, Michigan. So it was a campground. My buddy Brad Lasko owned it. He was like my uncle Brad. He was my dad's best friend. He played the banjo. Oh, wow. And he was like, barker's campground. So this place, when I was growing up, dude. Yeah, there we are right there. There's little Bradley picking, man. That's where I grew up, man. That's the vibe. That's my dad right there above him.

No way, bro. That's the damn Google image that's on this park.

Yeah, I think this is just y'all's yard, bro. Dude, that's how I grew up. Right there, bro. Sitting around that campground, picking just like that. That's my childhood. And, dude, so cool. It was epic, man. There's stony creeks right there. The salmon run every year in the fall. We were, like, spearing salmon back then.

Yeah. I won't tell anybody.

It was crazy. But this dude, Brad Lasco, owned it. There we go. That's what I was just going to say. They found out. So my childhood there was great. But as I got a little older, 1012 years old, all that meth moved in and fucked everything up and everybody up, including Barkas park. And they, while everybody was tweaking on meth, found out that there was gold in the creek.

No way.

Oh, my God. Can you imagine a better activity for meth head than panning for gold?

I can. At all, dude. I mean, it's like pan at all.

Literally sifting through every grain of sand in the fucking creek to find specks of gold. How could you do that and not be a meth head?

Dude, why every meth recovery center isn't currently located along a river or stream in this country, I will never understand. We have got to organize meth users and get this gold.

Yeah, seriously, because we could get some big bucks.

Dude. That's unbelievable, bro. Have you written a song about that?

Not about paying for gold. I wrote one called Dust in the baggie first.

Yes.

That's about Brad Lasko, man. Yeah, he just passed away a couple of years ago, too, man. That me and dad record, we dedicated it to Brad.

That's him. No, this is the video for it, Dustin. A baggy.

That's a video for it.

Okay.

I wouldn't play it, but. No, that's a famous video now because of that guy in the background, barefoot Ben. We were all on mushrooms that night. We were sitting in my buddy, well, my friend Gina's basement, and we're all picking songs. And there was a big party upstairs and everybody was drunk, but we were all tripping. So we wanted to go downstairs and be quiet and get away from all the drunks. So we were sitting down there in that basement and picking tunes and then. Yeah, barefoot Ben there, man, he was, like, the only hippie in Ionia that you know what mean. I guess there was a couple, like, skater kids or whatever, but he was, like, barefoot at every party. He was, like, wearing tie dye. People call him Barefoot Ben or hippie. And, yeah, like I said, he was, like, the only hippie around. But he was at every party.

He lived it.

He was at every party. And he was like, how'd you get here? Who do you know here? He was just. Every party. He was there. And in this video, he's literally like, we're tripping. And I'm just playing these songs, and he's smoking an unlit cigarette and he keeps hitting it like it's lit. And I don't think he does it. But if you look at the comments on that, shit is hilarious. They're talking about Ben. Like, this dude looks like he's standing there giving out side quests and shit. Shout out, Ben. Hope you're doing good, buddy.

Barefoot Ben. Amen, brother. Yeah, man, they just found a huge gold nugget. Can you look that up for me.

Where?

There we go. Biggest gold nugget ever found that weighed as much as a person. Shit would be worth an insane amount today. The biggest nugget of gold in the world weighed as much as an adult man.

Millions.

John Deeson and Richard Otitz, the jackpot. Oh, this is in 1869. So a little bit outdated. Australia, when they found. They discovered the monster nugget while digging in Australia. Yeah. Weighing in at eleven stones, 72 kg. Still no idea how much that is. I think it's 220 pounds.

Eleven stone.

It was weighted at a London charter bank, and they were paid just under $10,000 for the massive chunk.

In 1869.

Yeah. What do you think you'd do if you got that thing, brother? If you're on meth and let's say this, let's go on down a road, all right. That doesn't exist. But we have zoning rights in this space.

Oh, yeah.

We find a chunk of gold the size of a man, and people are on meth. Do you tell other people you have it, or do you, like, are meth people? Can they keep a secret, or is it not a secret area?

That's a good question. I don't know. I feel like some people can, some people can't. Yeah. We would just pawn that fucker. It would just go to the pawn shop.

Yeah. I mean, it would go to the closest pawn shop. I would probably give it away for two racks, bro.

Yeah, dude. I mean, fucking two racks. How many boxes can I get with that?

Right?

We just got to drive all over Michigan to get it.

Pseudofed central. I remember when they started locking up the pseudofed, man.

Oh, yeah. You got to show your id and shit for it.

I was like, I have a fucking runny nose. That used to be your id to get pseudophed, and now everything had changed and, yeah, not condoning drugs, but just sharing experiences. People get that.

It's kind of like the Shit that I've been through and the stuff that I've seen and all that is the reason that I can do what I do today. I kind of got it out of my system in a way.

Wow.

But I don't want to go back.

Right?

That's the thing I don't want to go back to.

Why?

Because it sucks. It's a miserable life. Who wants to be sitting in a tweaker pad with no food and start. It might feel good for a couple of hours, but real quick, it gets real bad. And, man, it ruins people's lives. It ruins families.

Yeah, look, that's just what I want. You said it better than I could have thought a way to say it. That's the truth. There's a message you did. This was almost a decade ago, I think. We were looking online, obviously we were looking up things about you online and we found this post that you put up. This is like almost eleven years ago now.

Yeah, I remember that day because, man, I was working at this.

You were in acne, Michigan. I'm just going to read it. Is that okay, Billy?

Yeah.

It says I put in my two weeks notice today at work. I decided to pursue music as a career. Maybe I'm going out on a limb by doing this, but I don't care. I am ambitious and passionate enough to try it. Working 8 hours and then gigging all the time is physically and mentally stressful and leaves me no time at all for creative output. I'm going to work very hard, practice, and write music every day. Besides, there has been nights that I've made more money in 1 hour playing music than I make in two weeks at work. I want to thank all of you for the support. Without you, I would not be able to make this decision.

Yeah, man, that's cool, man.

It's just a cool thing to put into the universe. What was that feeling like? So at that point, I guess you decided what you wanted to do.

That was at a point where I was working at this hotel, the grand Traverse resort. And I was partying and I was working and I was playing lots of gigs and the gigs were starting to. I was like saving up money for guitars and stuff. And I had this little pile of money in my top dresser drawer so I could finally get this guitar that was worth like $2,500 that I always wanted. Yes. And I was realizing as I'm saving up money, I was going well, I used to just live off the hotel check. I used to not have the gigs, which what I made from the hotel was like, I don't know, like $800 every fucking two weeks or something. But it was enough to pay my rent and get gas back and forth to work and shit.

Stay alive.

Yeah. But then I started playing gigs too. And I would be out playing a gig until I'd play a gig until eleven or so, but then there'd be a party afterwards. So afterwards I'd go to the party and I'd be up till five in the morning and then I'd get an hour and a half of sleep and then I'd go into work hungover and then work all day and hate it and then go back and then 06:00 would come around and I'd be back on stage somewhere.

Yeah.

And I was burning the candle at both ends and I could just feel it closing in on me. It's like, well, got to choose one or the other. And it was like I said, I used to make only like $800 at work. Now I'm making one, $200 from music. It was nice to have both the check and the music, but I used to just live off this and was fine.

Yeah.

So, okay, fuck the job. I'm just going to live off the music and basically have the same amount of bread or whatever. So I just started putting all my energy into it.

And what did that look like when you say putting all your energy into it? Because I think that's kind of interesting to think about. Well, for one, you made it your focus point. You kind of told the universe, hey, this is going to be what I'm going to do. You put that out there. So that's interesting because I think the universe does listen to us. I don't think we talk to it enough, but I think it listens to us.

Yeah.

So then what started happening there musically?

Well, I was already playing gigs. We had like a weekly gig at this place called Little Bohemia in Traverse City. And we were playing like shorts and all these different places. We'd play breweries, coffee houses, stuff like that for tips and for whatever. And I was like a weekend warrior and just a working musician. I'd play at the steakhouse, I'd play at the fucking brewery, whatever. But once I kind of got the job out of there, then it was like, okay. And what I meant in that post is like, I'm not fucking around. I'm going to practice, I'm going to write songs. I'm going to take this very seriously because of the folks that were out there coming to my little weekly gigs and stuff and making it to where I could pay my rent just with music, I felt like I had a duty to basically give back to those folks that supported me and say, look, if you continue to support me, I'm not fucking around. I will really work hard if you guys will still support me. That's what I decided to do, man. And that was like, around the time I was like 18.

Well, let's see. I'm 31. That was 2010. Anybody good at math?

It's eleven years, I think. I'm guessing I might go to math.

No. Yeah, it's eleven years.

Oh, it is good.

So what's that? I was like, 21.

20 or 21?

Yeah. So at that point, I had already been on tour and shit. When I was 19. I had been on tour. By the time I was 19, I was playing 200 gigs a year.

Oh, my God.

And I did that up until just a couple of years ago.

What do you think are the things. I know that you had some viral moments online. What do you think are the things that really cemented you in with people? Do you think it's a way that you play? Because I think artists start to see. Some artists are great performers. Some artists are captivating. They can make a unique sound or do something new or novel. Some you go for the songs and you don't even know anything about the artist or care about the artist at all.

Right.

Does that make any sense?

No. That's a really interesting thing that I've. I kind of learned that the first time that I went to the Grammys, because I'm a guitar player, I'm a bluegrass musician. I grew up singing around the campfire. There's no computers. There's no auto tune. There's no backup dancers. I went to the Grammys and I saw all this shit, and I was like, whoa. Like the kpop group, like BTS and shit. And I was like, okay, well, none of them are singing. This is all pre recorded tracks, but they're dancing their fucking asses off. I was like, oh, they're dancers. They're not musician. They're not a musician like me. I stand there in blue jeans on stage and strum the guitar and sing songs. That's what I do. Lady Gaga can direct an entire fucking orchestra to. She can sing, act, dance. She's a comedian. Some people have the whole umbrella over them. I'm just like a musician. And so going to the Grammys and seeing somebody with all the backup dancers doing all the moves and stuff, and I was like. Like I said, I grew up going to bluegrass festivals. I never seen that shit.

Yeah, I was like, whoa. They're not actually singing, but still cool because I guess they're dancers, but I've always been sort of like a grasshole. That's what you call it. It's like auto tune or anything like that.

Oh, I see you saying more the.

I work my ass off my whole life to learn how to sing and play, and then there's folks out there that are just pressing a button on a computer and singing through auto tune and shit. And they're selling millions of records. It's like, that's not fucking fair. Yeah, but it's a different style. It's a different. Okay. This person's not a bluegrass musician. They're a dancer or they're a rapper or whatever. That auto tune sound is a stylistic. It's a part of the sound. It's like a banjo is to bluegrass.

Right. They're almost like new orchestra. Yeah, it used to be this guy was the guy who was, like, the DJ. Nobody ever gives that guy any credit for being the first fucking Zed or whatever.

Conductor.

Yeah, the conductor. Nobody's like, oh, look at that. There's cascade. They're just like, oh, look at this penguin. Fucking guy with the two sticks. This guy's obviously fucking dork. Yeah, but truly, that guy was the fuck. That guy was the cascade. That guy was g. He was the g man. He was the chain smokers. It was just a different time. And then now people use more autotune. They just had an article the other day. It was about, like, t pain.

I remember hearing him talk about. I don't remember what show it was on or something, but he was talking about how Usher or somebody told him that he ruined music by introducing all that auto tune shit. And he said he got really depressed about it.

Oh, wow. Like the I'm on a boat.

Well, I don't know. I'm on a boat.

Didn't he make that song?

I think so. But either way, I feel like that was his sound was the real auto tin. And I think somebody who he really looked up to told him that he was like, yeah, Usher told him that he ruined music.

That usher telling him he ruined music led to a four year guess.

And then you see t pain coming out singing these Chris Stapleton songs and shit. And it's like, this motherfucker can sing.

Yeah, it's like if anybody, he was the last person that should have been pressing the button.

Right. But, I mean, that's what I'm saying is, like, it's a stylistic choice. It's like, it's not like the guy can't fucking sing.

Oh, I see what you're saying. So you're saying that. Yes, sometimes in the instance, it's an instance of somebody just trying something new, trying a different style, seeing what else is going on, as opposed to somebody just not having a certain skill set.

Like, check this out, man. Like post Malone, for instance. That's my dog. And he uses a lot of auto tune on his rap music, whatever music. How do you even classify his music? It's just like posty music.

Well, he's a concierge of joy. Honestly, I've only hung out with him once, but he is a concierge.

Fucking best dude ever.

Concierge of sheer joy.

The first time I really met fucking care bear, I love him.

Yeah.

But the first time I met him, he invited me over to his place or whatever, and we fucking sat there and sang Johnny cash. Hank Williams, fucking. He knows more old country songs than I do, I think. And he can play them on guitar and sing them like a fucking angel. And it's like I'm sitting in a room with him watching, like, okay. Like, dude's talented. Like, I'm fucking impressed. He knows the words to more Hank Williams songs than me. I'm like, holy shit. I mean, it's like the same thing with Luke Combs. When I was in a room with him for the first time, and he opened his mouth and started singing, I'm just like, wow, okay. Great voice, man. Yeah. Like, motherfucker can sing, write, and I'm just honored to be around any of these mean and especially more than even those cats who are big celebrities. I'm the Jack Pearson's, and more of the guys who are in my scene, the flex, the, you know, Stuart Duncan's, the Jerry Douglas's, when, like, go to the Grammys or something like that. Those are the cats that I'm really. I love seeing the big celebrity and stuff, but I'm looking past them and seeing who's in the band.

Like, oh, that bass player who's backing up Justin Bieber right now. Justin Bieber's drummer. Holy fuck. Who's that? Know, that's what I'm looking at is, like, the cats. Yeah, dude.

What a phenomenal. That would be so neat if they had Billy strings and the cats and it was just a tour that you did. Sorry. I hate when people give me ideas for shit, but I'm going to be that guy, brother. And you just featured, like. Yeah. Because it's so the spinning wheel of luck and fortune sometimes that some voices get heard louder than others, and then some people don't want to be the center of attention also, as well.

I still have a hard time with success. I grew up the opposite. I grew up poor. I grew up going to stay the night at friends houses just so I could have some dinner. I grew up fucking sleeping in my winter coat with a pit bull that had fleas because she was warm and waking up in the middle of the night and fucking. You can see your breath in your bedroom and shit. So I have a hard time with success because all my people are still living that back home. I have people that are still going to prison, still addicted, still dying from ods, and I'm sitting over here shitting on a heated toilet at the Sunset marquee, and it's like, well, why me? I have survivors.

Guilt. Oh, interesting.

You know what I mean? Wow.

Yeah, that's interesting, man.

So I've talked to my therapist about this a bunch, and I'm going, okay. Well, I go stand on stage and play guitar. Now, granted, I've played guitar since I was four years old, and I've worked very hard at it. I mean, this is 25 years of fucking playing every day, trying to get better, and really wanting to be a musician since I was in kindergarten, since I was a baby. But still, when I'm at my house and we are doing some renovations or something, and I see some mexican dude out in the. Working on laying the asphalt or something, and he's out in the hot sun, and I'm going, this is cockeyed as fuck. He's out there doing actual hard fucking work in the sun. And I play guitar, and he's the one making my driveway. This is fucked.

Yeah.

And I really feel like shit sometimes about, like, this is what the fuck happened. Why is the guy who is doing harder work being paid shit?

Yeah.

And it's like, I told this to my therapist, and she's like, I understand. But she also said. She told me about this pyramid of competence. It's like, as a musician goes, well, how many guitar players do you know? How many do you know that can play and sing at the same time? How many do you know that play, sing at the same time, and write their own songs? How many do you know that play, sing at the same time, write their own songs, and have good business sense? How many do you know that play, sing, write their own songs, have good business sense, and are willing to tour 200 days or more a year? It starts getting narrowed down, and I'm just the crazy motherfucker that will die for this shit. I'll never go back to where I was. I play for my life. It's not a job. This is my fucking survival. And it's literally everything to me.

I think even going back to the fact that when you were high on a drug, you reached for your guitar.

I've always reached for my guitar.

I know that. But it's a survival. I'm just thinking of that. I'm not trying to link this shit.

My guitar has always been my best friend and my coping mechanism through everything, right?

And here's what's crazy, though, Billy, is people are going to all have to do jobs. I remember working at a pizza place, and I would listen to the second the boss would leave, I would turn up fucking guns and roses, and I would fucking hell, right? Oh, dude. I would fucking cry in there, listen to November rain, and fucking threaten other people that worked at the place. And I would drink beer back there. I would open up the deep fryers, dude, and I would put pudding in there. I put pepper, I put anything you could. I would fucking fry it and eat it and drink beer. But what I'm saying is sometimes that person is listening to your music, and it's what's making the shift a little bit shorter. It's what's keeping there. So it's like we all, I think, are part of some process where it's like, I remember working on a farm for a couple of summers and having to do 14 hours days.

Oh, my God.

But I would listen to bail and hay or.

What were you doing?

No, I was running fertilizer running. Just help cleaning. Like the frogs on the planters. They let me plant. After a while, I broke some shit.

I probably still need to hard work, man.

Got to resent or get an asphalt amends. Yeah, but I just did whatever needed to be done. But I remember this. I would park that tractor sometimes. I would just park it because I'd be in like 300 acres. There'd be nobody around. I'd park that tractor. I'd stand out on the fucking hood of that thing, and I would play just the top ten country. They even had an old radio and you couldn't even see, but you knew when you hit the channel and I would just sing the fucking songs, it was like the one moment I had during the day that made me feel good or not that made me feel good, but that just fucking let it all out, right? And somebody who had probably played those songs had maybe done a job that I'd done. I remember I worked at a pipe Federal place over there in New Orleans, over in destran or something, and we would play that song, I just want to fly. Remember that song put you on? And it was just kind of a groove. It was one of those songs that hung around for so long in the ether, they kind of overplayed it and shit, for sure.

And they started playing it at cvs and people wanted to kill themselves and shit. But for the first, the younger guys who were like the guys who would just go sit out in the sun, and we would paint the glue onto the pipe so they could fit the rubber in there so that the hold wouldn't crack the pipe and stuff. Whenever that song came on, we had to go in and dance for the guys who've been working there for a long time, these welders, dude, and they fucking hated it. But we'd go in and it was this one fun moment we had during the day that was just ours. Nobody knew about it in the universe. And these fucking. The first day, none of them even look up from their welding and shit. But by the third day they were like, these motherfuckers.

Yeah.

And it was almost like us, like hazing ourselves in order to be accepted by the other group.

Oh, that's great.

But I think it's just because of music. If that song never comes on and we never would have done it, it's just like there's certain things that it does help. So I see what you're saying, man. There's times I get off stage and I'm walking past the people, the employees that are help cleaning up the stands.

Yeah. And I feel bad for everybody, dude, always.

And I want to think about this with you right now, man. Do you think it's that you feel bad or do you feel.

Well, I just feel like, why should I have it better than anybody else ever, for anything, right? Why should there be anybody out there who's struggling, who's sad, who doesn't have a roof over their heads? And I do. We're all the same. I'm not better than anybody else, right?

I think it's that you got chosen to be some semblance of, and we all get chosen at certain moments, I think, to be some semblance of hope. That's what I think. Because that's the thing. I hear your story, man. I think about like, it reminds me of certain things in my own life. It reminds me of people that I know. And then when I hear your music, I'm like, man, this makes me believe that something could be different for me, that something could be different for my son, for my daughter, for an in law. It gives me hope. But I think it is hard to accept that you're going to be a beacon of hope in some way. But I think we're all beacons of hope at different moments for each other. I'll have some people call into the podcast sometime and tell me a guy called in the other day and he said that he's like, hey, man, a few years ago I called in and I was going through a divorce. And I was heartbroken. He goes, and I just want to call today. It's three years later, and my new wife and I are expecting our first born child.

And it just turned around for him.

And in that moment, dude, that guy was my fucking hero. That guy was my Tom Brady.

When I listened to that, totally, man.

It was like. So I think there's all, like, I don't know. Am I sounding too think that? Yeah. I think that we're all just taking turns. I think we're all just taking turns. And you worked so hard at the fucking music. You worked hard at it.

The best reward that I could ever receive is somebody saying, hey, man, your song helped me through a tough time or something. And I've got that a bunch. And it's just the best thing ever. Better than any accolade, better than anything like that. It's just the fact that some of them have helped me. I've written songs that, like, I wrote the song and I thought I was writing it for other people to hear and that I feel like what they need. Then I sang it for a couple of months on stage, and one night on stage, I'm singing the words and I'm going, oh, my God, I wrote this for me. I'm the one that needs to hear this message.

Wow.

It's just like, holy shit.

That's crazy. Yeah. I think we're all, like, instruments of a higher power, and we just don't know how we're being used. It's funny, man. I'll get home and I'll be tired or whatever. I mean, everybody's fucking tired and shit, but I'll go to the airport now. And sometimes at the airport, you still see somebody waiting for their kid to come home from the military or waiting for a boyfriend or girlfriend, or you'll see a guy out there with flowers, waiting to see his wife. And that guy or person or family is my. Like, they are my damn Frederick Douglass. I don't even know their name, and they are like my Mozart for the month. Just seeing that there's, like, pieces of excitement and hope anyway. But do you think there's, like, an illness in America or in our culture that because we go through a lot of cities and towns and it's like, you start to feel like there's an energy missing from the culture. Do you feel that at all, or do you think that's just.

I don't know what it is, man. I mean, I don't know. Shit.

Yeah, me neither.

None of us do. We can just sit here and bullshit about it, but I don't know. I feel like people are just cruel to each other, but it's also not in real life, like, online, they are.

Oh, yeah. Online is crazy.

But I'm just saying, at the height of, know, political tensions and stuff like that, like, a couple years ago with Trump and everything, it's like you just go online and you see everybody know talking shit to each other, but then you look up from your phone, and you're in the airport, and nobody's doing that, and it's like, well, wait a minute. Are you guys actually enemies, or are you guys just doing this online because you're all here in the same airport and nobody's saying shit? So what the fuck? I feel like the Internet just spews and breeds, like, hatred like that. Okay, not the Internet. Maybe, like, social media or whatever, but I just feel like it's great for some things and it's not so good for other things. I wouldn't say something maybe to your face that I would say online or whatever.

Yeah. Oh, deaf. Yeah. I think there's things you can comment, like.

Easier on, but is it different to hear? Let's say I wouldn't stare you in the eyes and say, you're a fucking piece of shit. But if I said that online and you receive it, is it any different than me actually saying it to you? Wow.

It's interesting because when you read it, you're still okay.

This person thinks I'm a piece of shit. What the fuck?

Yeah, that's interesting. I think it's definitely not good. I'm amazed that we allow it to happen to our culture. You would think there would be a governing entity, and maybe I don't understand government sometimes or something that would say, hey, this isn't good for us. We'll allow it during. Maybe you allow it during certain hours of the day. You know what I'm saying? Or it's the same, like, with the opiates. It's like, hey, a company that is fucking killing people, that has people selling their grandmothers in third generation egg beater to cop a pill, hey, you're not good for us. It would just think, like, they're good.

For the economy, man.

Right? But it's like, at what point does that even have any? Because people are sick. I don't even think we're sick on the outside. I feel like our souls are sick, and we're out here having to take care of them.

That's why people need to listen to more bluegrass. There we go.

That's probably the truth.

It really is, man.

Well, look, the power of music, man. The power of music. Dude, if I had to work all day and listen to no music. I mean, in slave times, they sang, they made beautiful fucking music to get them through.

Yeah, and the prison lines, too. Them guys out there hammering away and shit. Them songs, man.

Oh, yeah, I saw this. This is pretty captivating. A dying mom blown away after she creates final song for her son, and it makes the Billboard charts. This is really cool. This is Kat Janice, I think. Yeah. 31 year old Kat Janice noticed a lump on her neck. In 2021, that doctor is diagnosed as sarcoma, a rare type of tumor that collects within the bone and tissue and is also no joke. I went to school with a girl named Sarcoma Jackson growing up at fucking William pitcher Junior high school. Move on, though. What else did it say about her on that article? Cat was declared cancer free after undergoing treatment, but the cancer sadly returned in June 2023, this time in her lungs. One of the ways in which Kat coped with diagnosis is through music. In a video she violently shared to social media after finding about her most recent diagnosis, she said, I'm going to go back into treatment. I'm going to be really strong about it. The mother posted an update to her health back in January to her followers. January 10, 2024. The tumors basically tripled overnight. Oh, she's in hospice now.

Oh. She says she told the publication that she signed her entire discography over to her son and added she wanted to release one final track. And this is the track, I guess, that's been blowing up.

Wow.

It's cool, man. I have to check it out, actually. You can probably play. Play? Like, play a little bit of it. Might be able to put these on. Put these on for a second. Just want to hear this. Cat Janice. Yeah.

Million firelight don't have as much as.

My body tonight oh.

Beyond.

Your.

Let's go, Cat Janice, baby. I like it, bro.

I do.

That's exciting, man. And what a neat thing just to be able to have it. I can't believe it's interesting. I think that shows you people want to support things that make them feel something. People know she's making that song, she has a son. They think about her. I can't imagine you're in hospice and that happens. It's got to keep you well.

It's like what I was talking about earlier, how the music was like rock and roll, and then the hippies wanted acoustic music, and then it got back into some heavy stuff in the disco happened, and then eventually people were like, okay, enough of disco. And then grunge and then, like 90.

Yesterday.

And then now it's been kind of like electronic music and hip hop has been sort of like reigning supreme. And I think people are just. They like to hear a guy strumming a guitar again or playing drums or sitting there playing an instrument and singing. I don't know.

We want something real. Yeah, I want something real. I think that's. I just. I want to see. I want to fucking see something that means something to somebody. I don't want something that feels like it's, I don't know, contrived for.

Yes.

I think part of me is tired of feeling tricked.

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like an.

Addicted to the tricks.

Well, when you take away all the stuff that I want to use, all of the technology I can to make music, at least that my peers are. It seems like every time we get into a studio with a producer or something, because we're a bluegrass band, they go, oh, man, we're going to record you straight to tape. And it's going to super old school. Like, it's the something. And I'm going, well, fuck, man. All my peers are using auto tune and shit. This ain't fair, right?

So it's like, we kind of want one thing, but then we also. We want to use the things that can help us.

Yeah, for sure. So I'm just like, what do you do? But when you kind of take all that stuff away and just hear a song that's just like a guy strumming a guitar and singing something that means something, I think it's just. I don't know. It's more pure or something.

Yeah, pull up that one where you and postie were doing that. Yeah. And why he's not our ambassador, United nations or whatever, I know.

He's literally the kindest guy.

He's unbelievable. The Vietnamese love him. Everybody loves this guy.

He had a sig and he was like, can I put it out? He's just the nicest guy ever.

Yeah. Can we listen a little bit? Can you just play it for us if we put these back on? Yeah, I want to hear a little bit of this, man. Dude, that's cool, man. It just looks fun.

Yeah, he just hit me up and was like, man, come out. And then we were just hanging. I was like, you want to come sing one? He's like, fuck, yeah.

Wow, that's cool.

I was like, let's do that. Johnny Cash song we did at your house.

How fun is it when a special guest gets on a concert? Is it really just.

It can be fun. It just depends. This was really fun. See, he asked me if he could drop his cigarette on my stage. What a gentleman.

I respect that. It's like when you're a comedy and somebody puts their feet up on the stage in the front.

Dude, where the fuck did that shirt go?

God.

Yeah, I lost that shirt. I don't know where the fuck it went.

Grab that gun. There you go, Billy boy. That's so cool, man. Mexico. That's awesome, man. That's good, dude. I think it's just. I think. Well, that's the thing. It's like, I think one reason people love musicians, it's just you can make something that makes people feel good pretty quick. You're like a drug. It's a damn drug, dude.

When I was getting my wisdom tooth pulled out, I was all, I don't know. No, I wasn't nitrous either. I think they knocked me out. And when I came back too, I was all kind of loopy or something. But either way, I was, like, getting super sentimental and emotional about. There was this woman, this endodontist or whatever, and I was like, oh, my God. You've literally. For one thing, I fucking hated school. You went to more school so that you could help people. That is so noble. You literally went to more school, which is like the worst fucking shit in the world, just so that you could help people in their life and help people with their face and their teeth. Like, oh, my God. Thank you.

Yeah, look, that's true, dude. Yes. Some of our perspective, I just got to have a good perspective.

It's like, thank you for. I mean, you put in the work, a doctor or something like that. I mean, a musician too. A chef. Fuck. This motherfucker spent all this time learning how to brew this beer that tastes so good now or whatever. It's like, thank you.

Yeah. I wouldn't think of a chef as somebody making beer immediately, but I respect.

Well, no, a brewer. A chef. An artist brewer. A fucking.

If you're going to, like, a five.

Star restaurant, man, you made this beer. And the steak's good too, man. Goddamn.

Yeah. I like a medium pale ale.

Yeah, medium rare for me. Keep mine a little bloody.

But no, it's like, no, you're right, man. Respecting the artistry that people put into things. And even as a thing like a chef, I think there know. Because some chefs, they love being chefs, man. I talked to my budy Brad last night, he's a chef in Nashville. He loves being a chef. He's talking about. He's just excited about, you find that.

Thing you love, man.

Respecting the artistry of things.

Respect for the craft. Yeah. My budy, Corey Wong, was telling me that he was on tour somewhere over in. I don't know, but they met this cheesemaker, this fucking guy who was all about cheese.

Oh, yeah.

And so they were trying all these different cheeses and shit, and at the end of it, they were like, okay, well, we want to take some to go. And they were, like, trying to figure out how to package it. And Corey's like, well, we can just all put it in one bag. And the cheesemaker was, nah, like, respect for the craft, dog. We ain't mixing up the cheeses. They all go in their own container.

Yeah. Gorgonzola, first of all, has been in solitary confinement for a couple of weeks, so we're nice.

Yeah, I mean, he's not allowed to be around the other inmates, so.

Yeah, no, it's a good point. Respecting the craft of things. I think that goes back to some things in our society, bro. And I talk about this kind of stuff a lot because I think it's been. I'm wondering why there is so much addiction and stuff in the world and why people are sick or what is sick inside of us. And I think one thing that people need to have is purpose. And I think people used to feel more purpose when they had, like, you knew who the guy in your town was that was, like, owned the wood shop and was the woodworker, or you knew who was the cheesemaker who made.

The best pastry when life was, like.

Mayberry, when it was just a little bit more like unmass, just where everything wasn't a krispy, not a.

Exactly.

Because then it was like, I got to go. Oh, the baker, dude. I can learn from the baker. And the baker felt value in the town because he can share information, and it came from his grandparents. And so then your grandparents had value, and there was lineage. And I think that things like that were important. And now you go through a lot of cities and towns in America, and there's not a lot of that, I.

Think, know not to just tie everything to bluegrass music, but I think that's part of the reason why people love bluegrass music, is it's almost a tap back into that world before all of the industrialization, like, when people were sitting on their porch picking and you knew the neighbor and they came down for dinner, know, Floyd cut everybody's hair. And Andy Griffith was the know. It was like, simpler times. Really?

Yeah, dude, our bus driver gave everybody same cut. Dude, rip Ray, I don't know what his name was. Deceased Ray, I guess they call him now or whatever, but he was our bus driver and also had the barber shop in town. And it was like the red and white barber pole. And everybody went in there. Yeah. And you'd wait. You have to go. If you knew, if you didn't get there early, it was like 325 or something. But on the bus days, once a month, he would cut on the bus, and so he would cut everybody's hair. It was like $2, bro. Everybody got same haircut, man. Woman down syndrome, whatever you had. Everybody got the same exact cut on that bitch. Dude, we all had the same cut in town. You knew? Yeah. So it's kind of. Those are the echelons. If you went and got it cut actually at the shop, or if you got one of those bus cuts, dude, Ray would just rattle people off, bro.

Yeah, got the old bus cut.

Yeah, it was a different time.

Ratling Ray.

Dude, you've gotten to do so much with music, man. Yeah. I think what I was asking about was sitting there with your parents was just that energy. When you're sitting there waiting to get called, that's almost the most exciting thing, whether you win or not, it's just. That's the coolest, is just being in that moment where there's possibility.

Well, there is possibility. I mean, today's the day you can wake up and decide that today is the day that I'm going to just. It's not all going to happen overnight, but it's like, we can start chipping away at it. We can start doing whatever it is to be better, work harder, or whatever it is that you feel like you need to do. I like to set goals for myself. Write them down. Really? Yeah. Just like, what do I want to do? I have this little journal where it's just like, what do I want? What do I want in life? I want happiness, I guess, or also, like, goals for myself. I smoke, like, mad amounts of weed to the point where it's like, okay, I should probably at least cut back just for the.

Just you smoking weed.

That's a big old joint.

That's a real joint.

Yeah.

Oh, my God, bro, that is a.

That's just like Tuesday morning, bro.

That's a prosthetic limb.

Yeah.

Oh, my God, bro. You're smoking out of somebody's. Damn. That's like a four year old's tibia. That thing should have an ankle on the end of it.

Hell, yeah, bro. Hold it up like Simba. But no, it's like I'm trying to just eat little edibles and just vape more and stuff. Because one of my doctors told me. He just gave me this list of things to survive. And it was just like, don't eat sugar. Like, don't smoke anything. Ever. Have a lot of sex, get exercise, go fishing. That's all good stuff for you to. I don't know, it almost seems like it would be, like, self explanatory or something. Just like, okay, do things that make me happy and don't eat and ingest things that are bad for me. But how hard is that to do, to go out? I eat a lot of sugar, like candy, and it's good. I love fucking Coca Cola, dude. On ice. Oh, my God. So fucking good. And then you're drinking it, and you're just thinking, man, I'm just drinking, like, sugar right now.

I'm just drinking pure misery for my body.

My doctor told me any white powders are bad, pretty much.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Even flour, they say, is not that good for you.

Yeah, that's one of them that he.

Said, I like flour, I guess. I don't even know. You don't even see it anymore. It's like you used to always see Flour.

When I was fucking Martha white self rising flower.

God, my mother would get that fucking flower out, and then she would beat us.

Yes. And then the way it just clouds everywhere.

Oh, yeah. During a beaten.

It's fucking great.

Nothing like it.

Like baby powder doesn't do the same. Doesn't have the same effect.

Yeah, you can't hide a child's beaten behind some.

Yeah, you need that real Martha white self rising flower. My grandma used to try to beat me with. Try. It was funny because it didn't hurt, but it was like those little thin, little balsa wood things you stir paint with. And me and my brother, we used to pretend like it really hurt just to not hurt grandma's feelings. She'd be like, all right, I'm going to give you a beating. And she'd hit us, and we'd be all. And then we'd walk around the corner and he'd be like, did that hurt? I'd be like, no. Yeah, it didn't hurt. We literally pretended like it hurt just to not hurt her feelings.

Yeah, that's interesting, man. That's just empathy at a young level. Yeah. We used to have my dad my dad was so old, and my mom would make him go beat us or spank us or whatever, and we would just be, like, screaming, even though it didn't hurt. He was, like, 80 years old, hitting us with his belt.

They can't do that anymore, can you? I don't have kids, but I feel.

Like if your kid doesn't have social media, you can. I feel like.

Yeah, well, I mean.

There'S a difference between reprimanding your child, but it's just great. It's like, I don't know.

I got spankings when I was younger. Yeah. But it wasn't long after that that I just kind of had no rules. But when I was young. Young, yeah. I got a couple of lickings. It wasn't anything terrible. I think it made me a better person. I guess there's a line that's drawn. I was never abused physically, but I had a couple good lickings.

Yeah.

And then old timers I heard stories from. It was like, oh, man, they used to do that in school.

I had it happen to me in school.

Did you? They would whip you.

Bill Brady, I think was his name. And he might have changed his name because he whooped a lot of kids in our, uh. But I'll say this, man. I saw him not too long ago. A friend of mine.

What now, motherfucker?

A friend of mine passed away. No. And honestly, he was the coolest.

Fuck me now, bro.

He was the coolest dude, bro. And I totally was like, this dude, bro. I give the dude $11 to freaking beat me now for no reason, just for fun. Yeah, just have it. Yeah, bro. He was the coolest guy, bro. A friend of mine. Yeah, my friend will pass from addiction, man. And that's where I saw him at, was at his funeral.

Oh, damn. He whooped you? And.

Buff. I'm sure I deserved it. I should still roll over and just let him beat me for a half hour.

Sounds like you kind of want him to do that. Yeah, I mean, look, it's kind of like some deep seated shit.

Look, dude, after you get older, it's hard to find things that really make you feel something.

You got to go back to that childhood shit that really.

It really gasses you up.

Yeah. But then you're like, well, this is kind of fucked up. Why would I like this?

Yeah.

Start thinking about yourself.

Yeah. Thinking about yourself. And it's sometimes just a trap. Thinking about yourself too much.

Just let it happen. Right?

What else do we want to talk about? Anything else? We got your water. I know I wanted to say that this is good, man. Yeah. Are they all seltzer or not?

Yeah. None of them have, like, booze in them or anything? This is the only flavor. We're actually doing a grape one next. Like, grape. Good. And then.

Oh, that reminds you. Mattress Mac just came out. He was sipping lean. You know who that is? He bet on the Houston Astros to win the World Series, and if they won, then every mixed couple got a mattress or whatever in Houston.

That's him.

That's him right there.

Damn, he looks hard as fuck.

He's g'd out, dude.

He'sipping. No way.

Yeah.

With the jolly ranchers.

Did you get chopped and screwed by a competitor who said they were going to hook it up, then went ghost when it was time for your delivery. Here at gallery furniture, you know, we stay knocking on doors like Pipsey and little Kiki. And you know, when you talk from.

Gallery furniture, in 4 hours or less.

Our delivery team is going to.

Do it, gang.

Dude, what gallery furniture we are all about.

We can't leave you riding dirty on that hand me down sofa. We need you to shine so clean, gang, bro.

Dude, that's my boy.

That's where it's at now. I think it's like, hey, you want to pull up, cop this ottoman. You want to pull up, and we'll serve you. We'll break you off with this lazy boy.

Yeah, that's where we're at. Yeah. Hey, speaking of gang, gang, what's the rat King thing?

The rat King.

Do you know what a rat king is?

I've heard about this before. It's a group of rats.

It's like a group of rats that are.

All.

Their tails are all tangled up. It's the most fucked up thing ever.

This guy, my friend said I look like this guy from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

A rat.

And so it's just a dude who's not doing well who has a couple of rats with him.

Okay, all right, I get it now. So you kind of are, like, the ringleader of the rats and shit.

I'm just a fucking guy who's just trying to get a little bit of cheese, man, and make it through that Monterey Jack. Oh, yeah. I'm trying to not Monterey jack off anymore either, dude. I've been trying to lay off the old hand, the old body spout.

Are you doing the retention thing?

No, I'm not doing that and just saving it up for somebody. Unless they're going to pay for it or something.

I know.

Yeah.

What the hell?

Any, like, artist collabs you've done. You've done some amazing ones so far, man. You're a Grammy winner. You got to sit there with your parents and go to the red carpet and go to the Grammys. Take them from Michigan over there. That's so fascinating.

Yeah, they came from Ionia down there to the.

Were they just fascinated?

Yeah. I mean, they're just proud of me and I'm proud of them. And we're all just like, really? And my brother's got two young kids, my niece and nephew, Jimmy and Bill. And they're just, like, really awesome. And I don't know, my family is just doing so good these days, and that's all I've ever wanted. It's like we've had some rough patches, as every family does, but, man, I don't know. Everybody's just doing pretty good these days, and it just makes me so happy because that's what I've always really wanted, is just for everybody to be okay. Yeah, I think a lot of people.

Can relate to that, man. I think a lot of people can relate to that.

Yeah. It was cool bringing them out there. And my dad's. That's as far west as he's ever gone. He's only been on an airplane twice.

Wow.

He's a 55. He's born in 1955. Only been on an airplane two times, and this was in the last year.

Wow. First time to LA.

Yeah.

Oh, that's crazy experience. That's such a ride. And to get to be at the graves and see all those other musicians and stuff.

And for my mom, too, I remember growing up, she would watch the E. Channel and stuff, and she's like, into the fashion. She's into all that shit. She used to watch the red carpet shit, so it was cool to be able to bring her. And for her to see all them crazy outfits and shit, like, know she's all into that. It was. It was kind of neat, but I just love my dad's. Like, that one guy was like, who are you wearing? And he's like, I got Levi's. He's like, my son bought me this shirt and this came from. I got it at a. You know, it's not. No Gucci or just.

No, it's perfect.

Got it at a western store.

Yeah. What music are you listening to right now, Billy? People ask you all the time, anybody popping in?

If I pull up my.

See what pops up?

Let's see. I'll go on. On repeat. Okay. I'm just going to read them down. Yeah, on repeat. Number one, the grudge, tool. That's only on there because I had to learn that. Because I sat in with tool and I had to listen to that song about 300 fucking times that day. Paris. Suicide boys number two.

Suicide boys.

Yes.

No way, bro. They're going to come on in April.

Are they?

Yeah, bro. I just texted Ruby and scrim last night.

That's crazy, dude.

That's crazy. You said them.

Oh, my God. I fuck with them hard, bro. Now check this out. We got tool, we got suicide boys directly to James King, the old swinging bridge. Oh, yeah.

God.

And then we got Pike county. Breakdown. Errol Scruggs. Low down Hank three. Yeah. You fuck with Hank three at all?

I don't listen to it that much. I should, though.

I got riding the Danville Pike, Blue Highway, Donna Lee, Charlie Parker. Concerning hobits, Howard Shore. This is on my. On repeat.

I love that, man.

Oh, yeah, you guys probably can't play that shit on there. My bad. That's okay.

On the audio version we can.

The flower and the corpse. Flesh and blood robot. The game, blue highway. Harbor of Love. Stanley brothers. Stratosphere. Boogie. Jimmy Bryant. Cold Virginia night. Ronnie Bowman. SOS West Montgomery. Scapegoat blues. Jimmy Herring. Whale. Bud Powell. Something in the way. Nirvana. More Ronnie Bowman, more suicide boys. Hank three gang, long tall Sally. Lil Ridge. Yeah.

Dude, I used to love Chuck Berry, bro.

Oh, fuck, yeah, man.

I used to listen to so much Chuck Berry.

He's the shit.

What have I been listening? I was listening to Wilson Jr.

Is.

There anything else that you want to share, Billy, or anything else you were thinking about? Well, you want to play anything? Are you have. I'm not saying you have to at all. I just saw you.

I could play something.

You brought an instrument? Yeah.

Let me rock a piss or something. I could pick a little bit. Yeah, I'd love to.

Dude, one question I had. Was there something on your mind?

Well, no, I was just saying I've just been working on a record, like, the last couple weeks. We started out in LA working at this studio, and it's just like I'm kind of at the point in my career right now where I just don't feel like I need to go into a big studio and have all that. So the last year and a half, I've been sort of building a studio at my house, and we just started cutting there. We've done two sessions so far. We were there for like a week, and then we were there for like five days. So I got like 21 song new songs in the can wow. That I recorded at home, and it's so awesome because the vibe is so killer there. We have the whole house, and then the studio is just like one little section. So whenever you're not in the studio, you have a whole house. Plus, I sort of live out in the country and we can ride bikes and stuff while we're at the studio and go outside and just. It's just, like, such a killer vibe. So that's what I've been doing the last couple of weeks, is working at home and making a record, and it's pretty badass, man.

I'm loving having my own studio to work at.

Yeah. It's one reason why I like having my job here at home. It's nice to be able to just have your job at home. Do you have a family at home or.

No, I have a wife.

Oh, you do?

And I have a cat.

Okay. That's a family.

Yeah.

Oh, in some cultures, yeah. In Japan, that's considered, I think, a large family.

Right?

Yeah. Cool, man. Yeah.

Well, let me rock a piss and I'll pick a tune for you.

Yeah, will you?

Yeah.

That'd be sweet of you, man. Thank you so much. Wow.

This guitar right here is like. It's my pride and joy. This is a 1940 Martin D 28.

Praise God, baby. Dang.

Yeah, man.

Wow. Who gave it to you?

I did. Let's see you recording in there. Well, since we were talking about all that, all them powders and such, gotta give you guys this little cautionary tale.

Okay, brother.

Gotta get her in tune first. All right. Here goes the old cocaine blues. Or wait, some people call it tell it to me.

Well, sniffing that cocaine all over town honey, don't let my deal go down hey, hey, buddy, let the cocaine be it was meant for horses, not for men doctor said he killed you but he didn't know when hey, hey, buddy, let cocaine be yeah, tell it to me tell it to me to drink corn liquor let the cocaine be hey, bud, let cocaine be yeah, tell it to me, tell it to me drink corn liquor let the cocaine be hey, bud, let cocaine be.

Wow. Close it.

I'm walking up the field going down, man trying to find a nickel for to buy cocaine hey, hey, but let cocaine be it'll burn out your nose, y'all turn red, the goddamn cocaine will kill you dead. Hey, but let cocaine be yeah, tell it to me tell it to me to drink corn liquor let the cocaine be hey, but let cocaine be yeah, tell it to me tell it to me to drink corn liquor let the cocaine be hey, hey, buddy, let cocaine be well, I don't know what I'm gonna do. It killed my friends. It's gonna kill me, too. Hey, but let cocaine be some of your people, you think you're tough sniffing that cocaine just like snuff hey, but let cocaine be well, tell it to me, tell it to me drink corn liquor let the cocaine be hey, but let cocaine be yeah, tell it to me, tell it to me drink corn liquor let the cocaine be hey, buddy, let cocaine be.

Wow.

Yeah, man.

Bro, that's so cool. Wow, man.

Got one more for you.

All right.

This one's from the late, great blaise Foley.

I want to go home with an armadilla spread her little legs and really try to thrill her to her very soul with my cowboy pole old scaly skin around my face lord, I'll be her saving grace I want to go home with an armadilla my cowboy pole wake up in the morning with my head on my pillar my finger in her ass you know I'll thrill her I want to go home with an armadilla on my cowboy pole amen I want to go home with an armadilla sleeping on my pillow next to me my rough old hands in my vaseline oh, she made a fool of me no more songs about armadillos.

I want.

To go home with an armadillo my cowboy pole wanna go home with an armadilla on my cowboy pole.

Let'S go.

Bro.

That's so cool. Look, everybody wants to catch astray, man. That's for damn sure.

God.

Yeah, because sometimes they're just laying there after you hit them and you're like, now what do we do? Billy shrinks, dude. Thank you so much, man. What is that feeling you have whenever you lock in on a. There's videos of you just in there. Is it a video to keep going, or are you still knowing where you're placing stuff? Or is it just like a second language? What is it like?

I just get inside of there and try to. Trying to pay attention. I don't know. Almost feels like stuff goes away. Everything else goes away. Sometimes, like, when I'm on stage and I'm really getting focused, it's kind of like playing basketball, I imagine. It's like you got to pay attention if somebody passes you the ball and you're not ready to catch it. You know what I mean? With me and my band, it's like we're just in there. We're super focused. We're playing, and it's like we're passing the ball around. I imagine it's kind of like playing ball. It's like, you got to be in the fucking focus.

Yeah. Wow. It's fascinating, man. Dude, thanks so much, bro.

Thank you, brother.

I think I was just kind of having a day, too, and just like, this was just, like, about. It just made me feel like, what's important. Just talking about stuff with people. It's important. Yeah, man. Thank you so much. Billy strings. Check him out. Wherever he is. Where will people be? I mean, you'll just be touring again sometime. It's so funny. I was just saying, because I've been going to places where you had played, and everybody's like, that motherfucker's crazy. That's what they say everywhere, bro.

Awesome. It's awesome, man. If you ever want to come out to a show, just let me know. I'll put you on the list and stuff. You're always welcome.

I appreciate it, man. Same, bro. Thank you so much, Billy strings.

Thank you.

Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone but when I reach that ground I'll share this piece of mine I found I can feel it in my bowling but it's gonna take closer.