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Warning.

The following episode contains explicit language and sexual themes. Listener discretion is advised.

Can we test your mic real quick?

Mic test, mic test. Cool. Yeah? Good?

Yeah, we're good.

Okay. I never said this to her anymore. Nobody knows. Every woman can seduce a man, and it doesn't matter how does she look. It's all about your skills. What do you say, how do you touch, and how you're good in sex. That's it. The most important thing, not to give him everything at the same moment. You cannot go to bed and sleep with him at the first day. Unless it's a special mission where you have to kill your target.

Some spies use poisons. Others use guns. But for Leah Rosa, who's sitting in front of me right now, her body was made into a weapon by the Russian military. Her mission: to seduce powerful men for their secrets or sometimes their lives. This type of intelligence work is known as sexpionage, and it's much more dangerous than you think.

What is sexpionage, actually? This sex becomes like a drug, and your target becomes like drug addicted. When a drug dealer wants to put someone on the needle, he gives a little bit. He doesn't give straight away everything. So the same way you do, you give a little bit sex, you give a little bit taste, and you tease, you tease, till you make sure that your target becomes addicted to you because you put so many anchors around him in his brain, in his body. Basically, the body gets used to you, so he physically cannot be with someone else.

I had to kill you.

I'm really sorry.

I had to do it. Got to go on my own. You didn't care, stuck behind. I was holding my gun. I got you, I tell you, I had to kill you.

Was it so episode 1, Chapter One, The Meeting.

Our story begins with the Mafia. I come from a Mafia family. It's a real Mafia family. I mean, not like some of the people that you know that will be, say, I'm connected and all that. My father actually did go before Robert Kennedy and McClolan. The interview you're listening to It was me many years ago speaking with Johnny Fratto, also known as the Beverly Hills Gangster. His father worked under Al Capone, and his brother was killed in the tragic plane crash that also took the life of boxer Rocky Marciano.

I have a question about the mom.

Has it changed?

It's all movies. It's all movies.

It doesn't exist. No. Never did. I was publishing a book with Johnny about his colorful and controversial life. We'd get together and he'd tell stories for hours. I said, Judge, I don't belong in here. I'm 24 years old. My wife is now pregnant with my son, Johnny. I don't belong in here. After Fratto moved to Los Angeles, he set his sights more on Fame than racketeering and unexpectedly became a recurring guest on The Howard Stern Show. The son he just mentioned grew up and wanted to leave the family business and get into the film business. This is Johnny introducing his son, Johnny Jr, to Stan Lee, the legendary Marvel comics writer.

This He's in my son, he thinks he can write a movie.

Everybody who's written his first movie has never written a movie before.

And why couldn't he do it?

Stan Lee says, I look like a writer. I look like one of them. You look like Fazio.

Not long after this, Johnny Fratto died of lung cancer at the age of 61. I didn't talk to his son, Johnny Jr, much after that. But one afternoon, after years of silence, he called with an incredible story.

I I have got a weird thing. It's going to sound fucking strange to you, and I don't even really know how to pitch this to you. Where do I begin? Because you wrote the book The Game, I met this girl that basically says she knows how to seduce men, pick up men, do whatever. Basically, she can own any man in two fucking seconds.

What Johnny is referring to here is an infamous book I wrote over a decade ago about About Two Years I spent Undercover in a Secret Society of Pickup Artists.

Here's the crazy part. She said she was a Russian spy at one time. I mean, it's the craziest shit you ever heard. She told me that there's a school that she had to attend in Russia where she had to literally have sex with her teachers in front of the class and have sex with different students in front of the class and learn how to give perfect blow jobs.

I'm sitting here- I've literally never heard of anything like this, and frankly, found it hard to believe. I'm sure the crude way Johnny Jr. Was speaking about it wasn't helping any. She was trained by the Russian government to seduce men and get their secrets or whatever.

Yeah, she was trained by Russia, she says, to fucking give the perfect blow job to fuck a guy perfectly. I believe her, man. I really do think she's telling the truth. And it's a little weird, but I thought if there's any one guy in the fucking world that it would be up his alley, it's you.

And can I ask the obvious question, which is, how did you meet her?

I met her through an Romanian guy named Art. And Art's a dapper, probably the most dapper little guy I've ever met. And he said, Johnny, there's somebody that you got to meet. You got to come over here. It's very special. I said, Okay, well, what is it? So I get there. He introduces me. Obviously, she's beautiful. She said she was trained to go in and fucking be with heads of state and shit like that.

Wow. And then how would you describe her just as a person in general?

She's very a cool, seductress that looks you straight in the eye all the time and always knows the right thing to say. Every single thing I was saying to her, she just had the perfect retort because I'm not trying to be an asshole, but look, this town is hard.

A couple more questions. How do we know she's not still working for the Russian government? Johnny said I could ask her that question and any others I had when I met her. I figured if the Russian government wanted to get me, there were probably easier ways.

Hey, man, what's going on? How you been? I really miss you, man. I mean, Jesus, last time I saw you was what? My dad's funeral or something? What was it? I think it was your dad's funeral. Jesus Christ.

Johnny He introduced me to the woman standing next to him. She was tall, with dye blonde hair, cut short and stylish, and wearing what looked like very expensive designer clothing. This was the reputed former Russian spy, Alia Rosa. Neil Strauss.

I want you guys to meet each other.

Thank you so much for an introduction, Neil. That's awesome. It's been great meeting you. Thank you.

Nice meeting you. I'm telling you, by the end of the night, you guys are going to be best- We sat down for dinner with a few other people I'd invited to get their take on the situation, including a former top-ranking agent at the CIA.

That That's what you had, both on the spot. If you want to tell a little bit about Alia, then we'll get stuck on- I'll tell.

I always have to get permission first because the story is crazy. Do I have permission to basically get fucking crazy with it? Tell them what you're really doing. Tell the truth. Fantastic. I'm going to tell the truth. I'm going to say something. This woman right here, and this is no shit, went through a fucking training thing that she literally- Johnny Jr.

Then repeats much of what he told me earlier in the same crass language.

I know that sounds too bad, though, but I'm just telling the truth. Anyway, that's it.

Is that introduction, putting thoughts in the introduction?

Okay, I'm fine with that. I mean, it was authentic, right? It's authentic, right?

I'm just saying what I… You know.

I know. Yes.

I know. But there's much more to the story.

It's clear that Alia is a little uncomfortable and that there's a lot more to her story.

Never, ever before I shared this story with anyone, including my parents. Nobody knows. Those people who knew, they were killed.

After the dinner, I spoke with my source from the CIA, who didn't want his name or voice to be used. And asked what he thought. She seems credible, he replied. But her story is incredible. That was a great dinner. Thank you. It was really intense one. Seriously, thank you. It was an odd dinner. It basically the CIA, the KGB, and the Mafia. I was left with more questions about Alia Rosa than answers. To me, that's always a good sign to move forward.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who You always spoke in truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robé.

And me, Simone Voice. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.

Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. Chapter 2, A Dirty Organization. After meeting Alia, I decided to look more into her story. There wasn't a lot online, but I did find a few items legitimizing her, a few items delegitimizing her, and a social media page that was very influencer-y. Then I looked into actual evidence of a seduction program operated by the Russian government, and there was no in-depth information online. It seemed like something out of a spy movie.

You made such a bold entrance into our little drama.

Who doesn't appreciate the occasional twist, Mr. Bond. James Bond. I probably wouldn't have believed it at all, if not for a strange experience I had a decade earlier. I received a call out of the blue from a special agent at the FBI. We are dedicated to national security investigations of the highest order, he told me. He went on to reveal two things that shocked me. The first is that my book, The Game, was required reading for his agents. The second was that he'd like me to fly to Washington and train a group of field agents and analysts on the art of seduction. It was an offer I couldn't say no to. When we're talking, I would say, What do you feel like doing tonight? What feels right for you? Because I'm talking in your language. When I'm talking to a visual person, I'm like, What do you see yourself doing tonight? How do you see yourself going out to this world? Because I know they're going to be visualizing. These things are really key for getting report. It's called modalities. If you want to talk in the primary modality. This is how people live. I called Robin Drieke, one of the agents who was present at that session, and the former head of the FBI's Behavioral Analysis program, to ask, why was the FBI learning The Art of seduction?

We brought you in a benefit of what you brought to us was a deep understanding of human psychology. In our work, where you're developing confidential human sources and recruiting spies, the understanding of to develop quick rapport and attraction is key and critical, minus going for romantic interactions. A lot of those other techniques were extremely effective, and you brought a vast amount of personal real-life experience to that with the book, and you're coming in and training with us.

It's so interesting. I'll fill you in and get your thoughts. At dinner, Elia said she'd worked for a Russian intelligence agency called the FSB, which I'd never heard of before. So I asked Robin to give me a little background on how Russian spy programs operate.

In general, it mirrors ours pretty closely. Their SVR is the equivalent of our CIA, and their GRU, that's the Russian military intelligence, is the equivalent of our DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency. Their FSB is the equivalent of our FBI. They see intelligence more as a factory event in the sense of it's an assembly line. I don't remember the exact number, but at the height of the Cold War before the KGB broke into the SVR and the FSB, I think that the number of employees that were part of the KGB were in the millions compared to a handful of our operatives overseas for the CIA and DIA. They are an intelligence machine. They suck it all in and they collect it all.

Why, I asked Robin, does Russia have this evidently deserved reputation as the world capital of spying?

The gross It's a domestic product, GDP of Russia, it's like Italy's or Texas. I mean, it's not huge. When you're a country that relies on hydrocarbons for your economy and that can fluctuate as much as it's been fluctuating, definitely in the last bunch of years, they don't have a huge economy. It's not very strong. And so when you're cash-strapped and you're trying to be the big boy on the world stage, if you don't have the military because you can't support it, you're going to do it in another way, and they do it in intelligence. Because intelligence collection, the way they do it is a lot cheaper than anything else. And they send their messages, whether they're going to publicly, even though they say it's not public, but killing people with depleted uranium. There's a lot of other ways to take someone out silently. Those things are made for public statements saying, We can find you anywhere in the world and we'll take you out. And that's intelligence operations. And it's a lot cheaper doing that than anything else. And so that's why they utilize their intelligence organizations to do just that.

I Phil and Robin, who spent 22 years recruiting Russian spies on Aliya's seduction training with the FSB, and ask him what he thinks.

Anecdotally and totally believable. The FSB, that is a dirty organization. It's an organization that is founded on doing things just like that. I mean, they use Honey Traps. They use it with Clayton Lone tree. I know there's been others that just don't hit the news.

We'll get into the story of Clayton Lone tree and some of those others later in this podcast. Podcast, and we'll also talk more about honey traps. The honey in this term is the agent who's seducing a target. And the trap is, now that I have evidence you've slept with me, or now that you've fallen completely in love with me, here's what I want from you.

No one volunteers the FSB. That's why they have to use honey traps and train people to do that because they're dicks. If you're a foreign diplomat over in their country, they're going to harass the living hell out of you, and then they're going to try to trap you and coerce worse you into cooperation. That is not the way to recruit a human being. That does not make anyone feel safe.

I ask if the United States has seduction spies, and Robin claims that they do not. Even taking a source to a strip club and using government money for that, he says, would be a political liability. When she was talking about her experience, you're just there and you stay there out of fear. There's like, if you leave, your life is going to be destroyed.

I mean, you know this from the world you've been, and that's broken toy. And broken toys have an unhealthy outlook on the world unless they've realized it, they've been through counseling.

Define what you mean by broken toy.

First of all, People that are susceptible to being recruited or trafficked, because basically she's human trafficked is what she is. There was a need in her life that wasn't being fulfilled somewhere else. And the FSB came in and fulfilled that need to be seen, heard, and valued by others, and then they manipulated that against her.

Keep in mind that I don't know a lot yet about Alia's story or how she was recruited, and neither does Robin. He's basing this analysis on his intelligence experience.

To me, there's no difference between a child predator and what they did to her. But welcome to the world of Russian intelligence.

Chapter 3, The Target.

Hi, Neil. Nice to see you. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, of course. Really excited to share with you.

Awesome. It's a sunny Wednesday afternoon in Malibu, and Elia Rosa has come over to discuss the podcast. When someone says they've been trained their whole life in the art of seduction, you tend to question everything they say and do, and wonder if it's all a manipulation.

I love your shoes. It's just so cool. Good. I know.

I think you're so unique, right?

Yes, very. I have never seen anything like this. Yeah, that's why I came. Really stylish. My son would really love it.

There's a controversial and often hurtful technique that the pickup artists in the game taught and it's called the neg. You give someone what appears to be a compliment and then say something slightly backhanded so that they're not quite sure if they're being complimented or insulted. And that's exactly what Elia just did to me. Elia has brought over a bottle of wine, which doesn't often happen in the meetings I attend. I hand her the corkscrew while I go to check on my son. When I get back, the wine is unopened and she hands the corkscrew back to me. I get the funny feeling that she's trying to prove to me that she hasn't tampered with the wine.

Okay. Right. Cheers, first of all. Cheers. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Yes.

Did you purposely not open the wine just so you knew I could trust the wine?

You left To check on your son, I could drop something. I know that you have this thoughts. It's normal. You and Putin, you are the same type, believe it or not. You protect yourself, your environment, your family, of course. It's a good thing. That's what Putin does. He also protects his country.

I'm not sure how to feel about that Putin comment, and that's probably just what Elia wants, another neg. She then shares something else that really messes with my mind, something that just may be true, given what Robin Drieke from the FBI just shared with me.

Actually, you'd be surprised. There are so many agents working in America. Like so many. Yeah. Even in Malibu, seriously, just be aware. Don't say anything about Putin. I mean, yeah, I sound like don't say, it's putting some fears, but it's better not really to... I mean, when Americans discuss Biden or Trump, it's like, Yeah, okay. But once they discuss about Putin, there are always many ears around Everyone in our country has a voice.

It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robé.

And me, Simone Voice. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more.

I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side.

You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. I turned the discussion to the podcast. Even though the period Ali is talking about was many years ago, I assume Putin still wouldn't be happy about her sharing state secrets. Speaking of that, are there concerns for your safety in speaking out and telling your story and sharing all this information?

To say I'm not scared, I would lie. Yes, of course. I am mother of 13 years old son. Yes, of course, I'm scared. I don't know what might happen, right? If I will be dead tomorrow, let's say, I know that my son, even it would be so hard for him, he will grow up and he will respect me for that. At least I had enough courage and bravery to stand up and speak out against this evil.

That evil, she explains, is more than just Putin.

Sharing that life event is a proof of how disruptive the whole system is and how the male dominance is just so strong there that being a female in Russia, it means that you're almost like you have the same rights like a dog. It's just not even like it's not right, but this is antihuman.

The other question is if we're going to go Tell the story. Are you comfortable just sharing all your experiences, good or bad, and no matter what people may think?

I don't feel comfortable at all, honestly. I don't want people to think that I can kill people. I'm a murderer. It's bad. If she could kill people, then Maybe she can do it now. Who knows? She doesn't have this stop. Because on the good side, I protected my country, right? And I tried to survive. On the bad side, I'm still a murderer. I still killed some people, and I still feel guilty for that.

I'd asked Johnny when I first spoke to him, Oh, how I know she's not still working for Russian intelligence?

You know what? I don't know how to answer this question, really. How do you know if I may still work for Putin, right? Because I will reveal the real truth was going on there and what was happening before when I heard about the Ukrainian war. I felt that moment that I really want to speak out. I felt like I can't just sit down there and just be silenced like I was all this time.

Looking back on the time you were in Russian intelligence experience, do you think you were a hero or a victim?

Definitely a victim. But brainwashed that I was a hero.

I play Elia in my interview with Robin Drieke. She pauses and reflects when he calls her a broken toy. I ask her what she's thinking about it.

I mean, for so many years, I didn't feel that I was broken. But it's hard. Neil, it's so hard to accept that because it's such a big guilt. It's such a big pain when you realize and when you accept that you, I, was a part of this evil system. So, yeah, I guess I am broken. And yes, I'm a toy.

As Elia talks further, I'm reminded of the grim reality that the victims in sexpionage are not just the targets, but the seducers themselves. Thank you. I'm so happy you came over. It's been an intense discussion, and I tell Elia afterward that I would like to move forward and share the story of her training, her espionage work, and her escape from the Russian military. I just have one last question. Is she ever able to turn off the role she was forced to play? Her answer confirms one of my deepest fears.

No, I mean, seduction is... I think, yeah, it's a lifestyle. It's definitely a lifestyle. Once you learn it, it's just like It's a habit. You go everywhere with this. You live like that. I wanted to work with you, and you, in this case, were my target. So I did it for this goal, which are having right now. And I can tell this is seduction. And when I realized that you're my perfect target, I seduced you.

We will continue in episode 2, available now, along with all eight episodes of To Die For, Volume 1. Continue listening for free on Apple Podcasts.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robé. And me, Simone Voce.

Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.

Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side.