Happy Scribe Logo

Transcript

Proofread by 0 readers
[00:00:05]

How much would you risk to save the life of a family member for Fanelli Rowe? The answer is everything. The second installment of the critically acclaimed drama Save Me comes to Peacock with Save Me Two in season one. Nellie Rowe is accused of abducting his estranged daughter, Jodie, after a quest that turns his life upside down. Jodie is still missing, but Nellie uncovered dark, hidden world that he can't turn away from now and save me to know he's willing to risk his relationships and his life to find Jodie with new suspects, new stories and new secrets save me, too.

[00:00:41]

We'll have you hooked from the moment you start watching. This series stars Lenny James, Ciaran Jones and Steven Graham. Your next great binge is waiting for you with Save Me to the gripping Peacock original series. Sign up at Peacock TV.com to stream now.

[00:01:01]

De de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de. Hey, guys, today we're going to get into the Jennifer Kesse case from Orlando, Florida. This case was the subject of the finale episode and the Up and Venice TV series. If you missed it, you can stream it at any time on the Oxygen app. You may have heard of Jennifer Kesse case before is a pretty high profile missing persons case. And Jennifer went missing almost exactly three months after Tara Grinstead.

[00:01:46]

In the past years, some people wondered if the two cases were connected to jog your memory. Here's a quick overview of some of the key points in this case. In 2006, a young professional woman went missing from Orlando, Florida. John was very outgoing, fun girl, full of life, just a beautiful soul. She was always very safety conscious. She was just on her way to work and then disappears off the face of the earth.

[00:02:15]

On January 23, 24 year old Jennifer Kesse went home to her condo after work. She talked to her boyfriend on the phone around 10:00 p.m. and she hasn't been heard from since. My heart dropped and instantly I said, oh, my God, we have to find her. You know, I never expect to get a call that your best friend just went missing in a place like central Florida.

[00:02:39]

There are so many places you can dispose of a body. The next day, video footage captured a grainy shot of someone parking her car at a neighboring complex and walking away. I held my breath when the trunk popped open because I thought, she's in the trunk of that car.

[00:03:00]

However, the facial features couldn't be determined and the person was never apprehended.

[00:03:07]

She saw Jennifer the night of her disappearance being forced into the back of a car that she says looks just like Jennifer's Chevy Malibu.

[00:03:14]

I was just a gentleman in out just to track her down to long carpet to the wreckage as to whether her parents, Joyce and Drew Kesse, have worked tirelessly to find their daughter from changing laws to initiating searches. They've done it all. What this tells me is that they are indicating to human remains scent in this area. Where is Jennifer Kesse and I believe she's out there needing to be rescued. The following is an extended interview from Jennifer Kasey's case.

[00:04:04]

I am Shannon Butler, I am a reporter in Orlando. Somebody sent a fax into the news station one morning saying that there was a woman who was missing. And that's not usually how we get that information, usually the police send something out to say that there's a missing woman, but this was so odd because it came through a fax machine, a flier of this girl we have never heard of. And who sent that fax? Her sorority sisters kind of mobilized when people hadn't heard from Jen and they took it upon themselves to just let the television stations know that there was a woman that was missing and they needed our help.

[00:04:56]

I said, we have to go. And I remember there was some conversation, which is how it's done that the police hadn't said that there was a missing girl in Orlando. So until they say someone's missing, we don't always go out there because lots of people haven't heard from somebody in a few hours and they're like, oh, I think my sister's missing. Or but there was something about that fax coming into the station that I said, we have to go.

[00:05:23]

And I left. I'm not even sure that they had sent me. I just got in the truck and we went, I don't I don't know why it wasn't that often that we had cases where someone in their 20s had vanished. You know, little kids go missing. And it was unusual at the time for us in Orlando that that she did. And I remember we pulled into this apartment complex where I had never been before.

[00:05:58]

And I've been a reporter in this town a long time. There's not too many, like apartment complexes I haven't been by. But it was new. It was just turned into this condo. And I remember pulling in. And when you drove up, there were, you know, vehicles and stuff. And we were the first or the second truck on scene. And I remember looking, you know, it was a stairwell. And I remember looking and I could see her mother standing in the stairwell.

[00:06:27]

And I they were backing the truck into a spot so I could see her. And I thought that is not the face of a mother who thinks that this will turn out very well. She knew something had happened to her daughter. We didn't know till later why they were so sure that this she didn't just leave. And I remember that was a guard, you know, a gate at the front. And they just let the trucks in and we pulled and there were people and her friends and her brother and her parents.

[00:07:00]

And I thought it was a small area because it was an apartment complex. But there was an awful lot of a lot of activity. And how could you not be out there every day? This mother and father, there were just regular people that didn't even live here and their daughter's gone. How could you not be with them every every day? Where do they live? They live a few hours south. She went to college here and got a job here.

[00:07:28]

And so she knew Orlando and made it her home. I've never seen someone move that fast for an older child. Immediately they knew they were in the car on the way. I had never seen anything like that. Why do you think they knew? The cases are a very, very close family.

[00:07:48]

And I know that sounds like every family's close, we get it, but they're family. And I remember we kind of thought it was a little bit odd how close she was to her parents, really, because she's in her twenties. They talked every single day and he knew even the father knew. There's plenty of things my father doesn't know. Right. But he knew everything when they didn't hear from her. They got in the car and said, we have to go.

[00:08:15]

The timeline. You know, it's still unclear if Jen disappeared that night by 10:00 p.m. or like 7:00 a.m. when shit show from work. There's just that little bit of time that we don't really know. I mean, you could kind of go either way, try to get her car in the morning. Someone approached her. She was in her house at night. But we know she made a phone call. She ended that at ten o'clock to her boyfriend.

[00:08:44]

So you know that. And then she didn't show up for work. So that's the the area that we're working with. And then the next day, her car was found where her car was found as I don't know, a mile or two away from where she lived, somewhere she would not go. And when her car was found, I went and waited and watched the investigators walk around. And I held my breath when the trunk popped open because I thought, I don't see her.

[00:09:16]

She did. All the doors were open, didn't come out of the back seat. She's in the trunk of that car. Sure, the trunk open. You could see their faces. No big deal. And that was it. I thought, this can't just be here, obviously, someone parked it here where she she didn't park here, you knew from the neighborhood it was in that there's no way that she parked parked it there. So now we're working with.

[00:09:42]

Right. A couple of miles, you're thinking, OK, maybe she is somewhere here because the car was found so quickly, there wasn't the evidence we hoped would be inside the car. Maybe if it wasn't 13 years ago would be a different story today. But you're talking about in a decade, a lot changes. And that car did not give us what we had hoped then kind of after the car was found. It's really like nothing has happened since that there were lots of searches and there was bones after bones after bones, because we're talking about Florida right there, swamp area everywhere.

[00:10:20]

And it was a turtle on alligator bone, whatever it was like after the car. It's almost like that timeline had stopped because we've had not no clue since then of what could have happened. Nothing. Zero. We had been there all day and all night. And then the next day someone calls in and says, I think the car's in the parking lot. It was backed in a spot so they could see the license plate. I think it was back to the spot.

[00:10:51]

They could see the license plate and it had been running now, right. For at least twenty four hours. This car, her face, the Malibu, Jet-Black, Malibu, the license plate over and over and over and over again. You couldn't turn on the TV and not see Jennifer. And the surveillance video comes out. And this is an old system we're still talking about thirteen years ago and we're talking about a old apartment complex. And the cameras weren't great, but they caught an image.

[00:11:25]

And so police have had that image for a bit before they released that. And I don't remember how long. And they release it. We think, oh, my gosh, they have a picture of the suspect. We cannot wait to see this person of interest is. And then you look at the photo and it shows you nothing could be anybody could be me walk in there. And that did nothing either. And you're thinking, how is it possible that in that short span they find the car and they get a picture?

[00:11:55]

And it does nothing, you know, the face is perfectly blocked by that fence, I always say the luckiest man on the planet. Do you think that that picture is of the person involved? I don't know. I've never been 100 percent convinced that that person was involved. But the police said that. So they know other things, obviously, that has them believe that that is the person of interest. I don't think I think there's more than one person involved here.

[00:12:28]

Maybe it's one of the I've never been 100 percent convinced that that's the person. Could be. They say it is. We'll go with that. But I don't know. I mean, the only people walk by those cameras. And why did they pinpoint that time? Because that's when they saw that the car had been parked there. So, you know, they narrowed it down to a time. And that was the person who kind of walked around that fence.

[00:12:57]

So it makes sense. Maybe they had somebody parked the car. I we don't know what gives you the inclination that maybe it's more than one person. Jen, from what I know from from her family, she's I think she to put up a fight. And I think that it would be difficult. And I don't know that you could get away with this situation with just one person. People at the police department told me that that they thought there was more than one.

[00:13:38]

And I don't know, maybe they didn't know. Maybe they were at that point. We're taking a joyride in the car. I don't know if they know where Jenna somebody knows where Jenna is. And it's I don't think it's just one person. And that car, it was clear someone else drove that car DUNSTALL But that seat was pushed so far back. I don't think that Jenna could have reached the pedals. It's interesting on that flyer, it says Person of interest five three to five five.

[00:14:05]

Well, they could tell that from the gate, right, if you looked to try to figure out where his head was, they could they could tell and listen, Jen's not five three, you know, dense, taller than that. Not to say that he couldn't do it. I don't know what happened to her, but I'll never be convinced it was just one person. It was disturbing for this community, all of these people came out, you know, people with search, professional search crews, one came from Texas, they organized searches.

[00:14:40]

So it didn't look like it slowed down. I mean, police were working it and taking the tips that were coming in. I mean, they couldn't keep up. I mean, it was just, you know, lots and lots of tips. There were lots of searches. She was on TV every single night, every single newscast on every single station. You can go anywhere. You couldn't drive down the street without huge posters. And then you the years go by and bushes grow, water rises.

[00:15:11]

I don't know. I mean, it would be I mean, there's hunters, there's gator trappers, people in the woods all the time that stumble upon these things.

[00:15:21]

But 13 years later, nobody has stumbled upon anything. Not a shoe, nothing they did have. I remember there was a canine out there that did follow the trail outside the apartment complex. But I think they knew that someone parked it and walked away. You know, the two detectives that showed up there, they really thought, OK, you know, she probably had a fight with her boyfriend school and off somewhere she'll be back.

[00:15:52]

Her parents knew that wasn't true. First of all, there was no her boyfriend didn't even live there. Her boyfriend lived hours away. So where is she going to cool off? She can sit in her apartment and cool off where she need to go. He's not a year.

[00:16:04]

And, you know, he was, you know, suspect number one. That always is. Right.

[00:16:10]

And there was never a moment, you know, Drew and Joyce will tell you that they ever thought that her boyfriend had anything to do with it ever. But in the police defense, that's where they go and that's who they had to talk to. And they did. And I mean, he was there when they found the car and they watched him to see his reaction of that car. That's what they were supposed to do. But he had you know, at this point, they had nothing to do with it.

[00:16:37]

He's been cleared. Everything was fine. And he was a huge help. I mean, the minute she went missing, he and his mother on the road up here. And, you know, it was difficult for all of them because he had just seen her. They had just gone on a cruise. She just leaves his house, goes to work, comes home, talks to him at ten o'clock, and then no one sees her again. So when you look at that, I understood where everybody's mind went.

[00:17:03]

I mean, look, the family's always a suspect. The brother, she had her brother's friends staying in our apartment while she was gone. In fact, she was shipping a cell phone back to them. They left it and she was supposed to, you know, ship a cell phone and none was never seen again. Do you know why she was having her brother's friend stay in her apartment? Was she worried about the apartment?

[00:17:27]

No, I can't exactly remember. But I think they were in town and were staying because she wasn't there.

[00:17:33]

And she and her brother are very close. I mean, that family's really, really close. So it wouldn't be unusual that his buddies would stay with her.

[00:17:40]

And, you know, she lived in Orlando and, you know, she had a lot of cute friends. You know, I don't that would not be out of the ordinary. What did they find in Jennifer's apartment? Any sign of struggle? No. And that knocked the door to door, wasn't kicked in. The lock wasn't messed with inside. It looks just like your place probably looks right now. You got out, took a shower. You took one the night before.

[00:18:06]

I mean, the towel was still wet. So she had taken a shower. Her clothes were laid out like she did, you know, to go to work. I wear this or this. Clothes were laid out. That's why you can't tell that had happened the night before or the morning after. You don't know because the apartment looked like someone that just got up and went to work, got in the car and drove away. Nothing there's not was nothing in there that they found suspicious.

[00:18:35]

And her brother was already in that apartment before the parents got there, before police got there.

[00:18:40]

So he would have known and he would have seen. And listen, opening that door was probably not very fun for any of them because you didn't know what was inside. And they had already had the apartment complex go and check to see if she answered the door or whatever. But there was nothing that was strange in that apartment. Do you know what was going on in the apartment complex at the time?

[00:19:06]

Yeah, that was the the, you know, age when all the apartment complexes were turning into condos. So that entire complex was being flipped. And there were a lot of workers, a lot of undocumented workers in that complex in her specific complex. And when we drove in, I'll never forget it when we drove in there, workers everywhere and there were huge rolls of carpet that you would replace as they do when people move out these huge rolls of carpet and vans that would have the carpet sticking out the back.

[00:19:45]

You know how the back doors are open and the carpet comes out. And I remember as we drove down and you could see the carpet, you immediately think, oh, my gosh, someone roller up on those carpets because you've seen and everybody's seen the movies right now, seen it. And there were a lot of workers. And I always wondered why that place hadn't been locked down. Nobody in, nobody out or talking to everyone. And a lot of those workers scattered, you know, police throw up.

[00:20:19]

I mean, there's no way they could have interviewed everyone because I don't think you didn't know who they were. But they're just workers that were here at the time. We had no reason to believe that anything had happened with them until the story goes on. Oh, they were pouring concrete over here or digging up plants here. Then you start, you know, your mind starts, you know, going, I think they were sitting in the empty apartments, but I don't really remember this was anything found in the car when they when they opened it, there was a DVD player that was strapped in the back seat and it was still there.

[00:20:59]

And so we knew that somebody probably wasn't trying to rob her because they would have taken that DVD player. I don't know why I always remember this DVD player, but I thought it was so odd that you're in her car, she's gone, and you don't take the DVD player. You might as well. Right. And it was just strapped in the back like nothing had happened. And in 2006, that would have still had some. Oh, yeah.

[00:21:30]

Now you'd be like, what is this? But yes, the DVD player would have been something of value back then. Still there. It always felt like someone was just wanted to dump that car. I get the hell out of there. How do you think that law enforcement handled the case? You know, it's so easy to Monday morning quarterback those things. But as we've gone through, you know, 13 years and what we know about the first few hours or the crucial times, it was 48 hours, I think that they didn't take it as seriously as the family wished they would have.

[00:22:15]

Dru will tell you that the first detective didn't even take notes. There was so much activity at the time. We fully believed that OPD was doing everything they could and maybe that was the best they could do. You know, the family had gone into the apartment, which it was already compromised at that point. There was no reason not to go in. Right. Of course, you're going to open the door and be like a shoe here. But after that, I mean, they were sleeping in there and whatever.

[00:22:40]

I always thought that OPD should have locked that place down, too. There were tips that people will tell you that were never followed up on. They'll say, I called in. They never called me back. And that was hard to hear. I don't have any reason to believe that these people are lying about that. Why would they lie? Seems so weird to me that people didn't see or hear anything. How's that possible in see a struggle?

[00:23:13]

You didn't see the car back out. You didn't hear a horn honks. You didn't see four guys walk up the stairs. It was only odd to me that nobody saw anything. There was two workers that she had been in a fight with in her apartment. They were in the apartment, I think, the week before, and they were doing some painting because, remember, this is a condo conversion and they were doing some painting. And those guys, if I remember correctly, admitted, yeah, we were in our apartment.

[00:23:46]

I mean, obviously there's a work order. They were in the apartment. So those guys were always, you know, like, could something have happened because of what happened before? But they were in there the week before. Did you ever hear the theory that maybe human trafficking was involved? That's always been a theory, I guess, for anyone. You know, Orlando has a problem, maybe not a problem, but it's here. It's Florida.

[00:24:17]

It's here. She was very pretty. She was young, but she didn't to me. Fit the profile. I don't know in my gut that I really believe that's what happened, but if if tomorrow they said, by the way, she was human trafficking and we found her, wouldn't surprise me. But that has never been my gut feeling on that. She just didn't fit the profile of the girls that we have interviewed before who have been in that world.

[00:24:47]

But you hate to rule it out because you can't rule anything out, can't rule anyone or anything out of this case in 13 years. What do you think happened? Do you have any anythings after 13 years that you feel most strongly about?

[00:25:01]

Well, it will depend on the day that you ask me. Right? Something will come up and will we'll think about that. But if I had to to say what I think happened, I think it had to do with the workers. I've always thought that that's just my opinion. I don't know that everybody shares my opinion, but those workers were there. They could get in and out of the apartment. There was a lot of people working there and it was so close.

[00:25:39]

The car was so close to our complex. It's like somebody knew that area.

[00:25:46]

And so that's just always been my belief. And if you look at the surveillance photo, what you can see of it, it could could be one of those workers, because to me, that picture looks like somebody in work pants and a white shirt. I mean, people have said and sometimes it gets in your head because so many people have commented on that photo. Well, it looks like they've got work pants on. It looks like painter's pants.

[00:26:13]

It must be. I don't know that I could tell you what kind of pants those are, but to me, that looked like a worker. I don't know how the face is covered in every you know, I mean, the perfect steps. I mean, as far as only this big, big weather, this big or whatever reason covers the entire face every time. I mean, the luckiest aspect on the planet, they will right now, if you call Drew and someone said we think somebody saw her, he'd get in his car and he will never stop.

[00:26:49]

And that's his life's goal. That's what he lives for. You know, that was his little girl. There were very, very close. They're doing, I guess, as best they can. They are that is those are great people. And it's a shame. Sometimes the case comes along that is so heinous, so shocking that it's called the crime of the century.

[00:27:34]

Truth is, though, there have been a lot of those cases over the years. I'm Amber Hunt, an award winning journalist and author with a new podcast that marries true crime with history. It's called Crimes of the Centuries from the Obsessed Network. I'm examining stories that left a mark.

[00:27:52]

Some of them are first of their kind, like the country's first recorded murder trial or first kidnapping for ransom. Crimes of the centuries will explore not just the crimes that were committed, but what was happening in the world at that time and what effects they had on society that we may still notice today. Subscribe to crimes of the centuries from the Obsessed Network, an Apple podcast, or wherever else you get your show's. Hiring is challenging, especially right now when you have so much on your plate.

[00:28:35]

Luckily, there's one place you can go where hiring is simple, fast and smart, a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates that places zip. Recruiter dotcom approach. Zip recruiter does the work for you with their powerful matching technology. ZIP recruiters scans thousands of resumes to find that people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You can even add screening questions to your job listing so you can filter candidates and focus on the right ones.

[00:29:06]

Zip recruiter is so effective that four out of five employers who post on ZIP recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now to try zip recruiter for free, my listeners can go to zip recruiter dotcom approach. That's Zipkin or dotcom app or a A.H. Zip recruiter dotcom slash approach zip recruiter. The smartest way to hire. Our team sat down for a final roundtable to discuss Jennifer Kesey's case. On January 23, 2006, Jennifer Kesse, 24 years old, disappeared from Orlando, Florida, and many of our up and vanished listeners may know about this case.

[00:29:54]

It only happened a few months after Tara went missing. And there are some other similarities. There was actually a theory that there was a serial killer on the loose at the time that may be connected to both of their cases and more. He's got to one actually worked the Kesse case for several months as well as working Tara's case, obviously. So there was obviously some connections there between these two cases. And we all knew about it prior to actually this this series in investigating it.

[00:30:20]

I think one of the things that stood out to me about this case was not only the very bizarre circumstances of Jennifer's disappearance, but even after her disappearance, the fight that the Kesse family went through in order to get justice and then to even get the support and documentation and evidence so they could launch their own investigation. You know, nothing has been easy. And the thought of trying to launch your own investigation have to fight the state of Florida while grieving the loss of your daughter was heartbreaking and something you just can't imagine.

[00:30:52]

The last time that Jennifer was seen was on January 23. She had gotten home from work. She talked to her father and her boyfriend that day and never showed up to work the next day. And there was just, you know, so many takeaways from the apartment itself. That was we know she made it home. Her car was outside. Her apartment was being renovated at the time. So there was a lot of people in and out, a lot of painters, a lot of construction workers.

[00:31:21]

And the case becomes more and more difficult to get answers because a lot of the people that you needed to talk to at that time, if you didn't talk to them that very same day, you probably would never get to talk to them because they might be transients, because they're there to work on the property. Even if the police are showing up, people aren't showing up the next day for work because they don't want to just be in that environment.

[00:31:43]

So it was a difficult one. I think that it was uphill battle for the police, but there was just so much that they didn't do that day and couldn't do that. They couldn't do that to actually. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you.

[00:31:55]

I think the family is really an incredible part of this case. Mr. Kesse is such a force to be reckoned with.

[00:32:02]

They have. Really? Run a lot of the investigation on their own, which is incredible, and it's been such a battle and they've changed laws in doing that, like they raised the age. Hey, Mike, what's that law that they changed?

[00:32:20]

So it's the Jennifer Kesse and Tiffany Sessions Missing Persons Act. It directs law officers to start looking for a missing person, 25 or younger, within two hours of his or her reported disappearance. I can't find what the age used to be, but I think it was younger than that, like 18 or something.

[00:32:35]

Yeah, yeah. I think it was 18 and under. Well, it only applies to those suspected of being in danger or the victims of a crime. So it's not just anyone who goes missing.

[00:32:46]

Well, yeah, I think it used to be minors and now it's older. And so they've really been like these total pioneers for missing persons cases. And Mr. Kesse really helps out a lot of other families that are going through the same thing. And they've used like a ton of their funds, their own personal funds, just to look for their daughter. And they're really incredible people to talk to. So it's been absolutely like honestly an honor to to know them.

[00:33:12]

And their drive is so intense. It's interesting that you say Jennifer Cassie's case was only a couple of months after Tara Grinstead, and in some ways they look very similar and that both women kind of young, independent women. Were last seen, you know, going home. Getting into there, getting into their respective homes, and then they were gone, you know, both places, Jennifer's apartment antagonises house locked. No real sign of a struggle and then all of a sudden, no one knew where they were, but they weren't inside their homes.

[00:33:53]

And it's similar with Jennifer Kasey's case, and now I know antagonises case, there's some kind of gray area where some people believe there there was, you know, visible signs of a struggle in there, but they weren't overt. It's not what you would you'd think it's not, you know, ransacked and stuff everywhere. And Jennifer Kasey's place was the same.

[00:34:11]

They said it looked like she had kind of just taken a shower or something or, you know, just kind of it looked like she just had been there and talking to Jennifer's parents, Drew and Joyce Kesse, as well as her brother Logan.

[00:34:24]

I really felt like I got to know Jennifer a bit because the way they talked about her like she was she was prepared. She was a fighter, like she would have conversations with her brother, with her father, about protecting herself, about being prepared. And, you know, she was she wasn't like she wasn't the the typical victim that you're thinking of, the damsel in distress, you know what I mean? So, you know, they believe and it sounds, you know, reasonable that she would have not have been someone who easily grabbed off the street or taken out of her apartment.

[00:34:56]

She would have put up a fight, which makes you believe that, you know, there was some struggle to some screens that will need some some evidence that the police will be able to follow up on quickly. I think that was one of the issues was how quick they got on the scene. They talked to people and they weren't really able to follow up to really get the cases, any information that would lead to anywhere quickly. And it just came a very relaxed investigation in ways.

[00:35:19]

And they really keyed in on the one main piece of evidence which was surveillance. You know, her vehicle was driven off property and dropped a couple of miles away from the apartment. And the person driving that vehicle was seen on surveillance camera, unfortunately, couldn't make out who that person was. Yes, she's last seen leaving work on a Monday around 6:00 PM, talks to her dad around that time, then talks to her boyfriend that night sometime after 10:00 p.m. and she's never seen or heard from again.

[00:35:55]

The next day, around noon down the street, a surveillance video picks up her car being moved by an unknown individual and just dropped off at this different apartment complex. And this man steps out of the vehicle and walks behind this fence and goes, who knows where? Because the camera cuts off. I mean, there was only one good angle of her car being parked there. But obviously, whoever has her vehicle at that time and has never come forward is associated with her disappearance.

[00:36:33]

And the problem is it's classic black and white grainy footage. It kind of looks like he's wearing a painter's outfit. It could just be the way that it looks. It looks like he's wearing all white, but again, it's black and white, so you can't definitively say that. But he just casually rolls up in Jennifer's car, parks it and then walks away. And whoever did that, whoever that person is, has never come forward. And that tells law enforcement and tells me that he's probably involved in her disappearance and likely murder.

[00:37:07]

Yeah, it's interesting that you say. You know, the black and white footage, it's hard to tell what he's wearing. And I say he as an assumption, it also, you know, you can barely even tell if it's a he, it could really be anyone but that person in the video footage. I've never worn an outfit like that, you know. It really does look like painter's coveralls or coveralls of some some type. It's just totally one color, kind of a formless.

[00:37:38]

Outfit, it's very baggy and you can't really determine much about the person but that and it's in and of itself is kind of strange.

[00:37:46]

And on his head, it's either like a golf hat or. The person's hair in a bun or something, it's there's sort of this elongated part of their head where it looks like they're wearing either a classic looking golf cap or they have their hair back or something. I mean, again, there's like three frames of the entire video that you can see. That's the thing, too. It's not like there was just this bad black and white footage of it wasn't just bad black and white footage.

[00:38:18]

It was also on this timer where it wasn't filming continuously. It was every couple of seconds. Yeah. So you literally get like three frames of this person and on almost all of them, he's being partially option. Yes. He's either fully blocked or partially blocked by this fence.

[00:38:35]

Yeah, it's just the just unfortunate timing. You know, like I said, it's not a full running video that's capturing, you know, all motion. It's like every two seconds. So you never get the suspect right in the middle lined up with the camera. So, I mean, it's just bad timing and extra frustrating part about this case.

[00:38:57]

It's almost unbelievable luck that he's covered by a bar of the fence every step of the way. Mm hmm. It's got to be maddening for the family that that is all they've had to go on for all these years, like a terrible video footage from all accounts, so undeniably linked, yet says almost nothing.

[00:39:17]

You know, one of the theories in the case is obviously there was construction going on at the apartment, painters at the apartment. The suspect looked to be wearing something that could be could resemble coveralls, painter's outfit that when the vehicle was found, which was, I believe, two days after Jennifer disappeared, they sent dogs over, obviously, to where that vehicle was found and the dogs traced back to the apartment as if someone dropped that car off and then walked back to the apartment.

[00:39:46]

So, again, all leads to she was abducted there. Her car was used in some way. Then who knows where the car went. But we know the car ended up at another apartment complex, walkable to her complex. And, you know, putting all those things together, that theory does seem plausible that it could have been someone who was working at the apartment, saw her come out of her apartment, maybe go to work because her purse and keys and cell phone were not in the apartment and abductor there and didn't.

[00:40:18]

We just don't know what happened after that.

[00:40:29]

A healthy lifestyle should be easy, right, eat veggies, drink green smoothies, exercise to get your heart rate up. Do yoga to bring your heart rate down. Maybe not so easy, but there is something that helps improve everything. And you can do it with your eyes closed it sleep, sleep, no knows what it takes to sleep your best. The sleep number three sexy smart bed lets you choose your ideal, firmest comfort and support on each side.

[00:40:53]

Your sleep number setting. It's the perfect solution for couples. These beds are so smart they respond to your every move and automatically adjust to keep you sleeping comfortably all night. Proven quality sleep is life changing. Sleep discover the sleep number three sixty smart bed for proven quality sleep during the Veterans Day sale. Save 1000 dollars on a special edition. Smart bed now seventeen ninety nine plus exclusive offers for military members. This is for a limited time only at sleep.

[00:41:24]

No stores or where you sleep. No dotcom kadence. See DNC Caden's. This Monday night on CBS, it's the return of the CBS original series All Rise, a legal drama where Judge Lola Karmichael, played by Simon Missick, is a dynamic and bold African-American judge fighting to change a flawed legal system.

[00:41:52]

There are compelling cases told in unexpected ways, featuring beloved characters and plot twists, its entertaining, heart stopping, absurd, but ultimately hopeful. The All Rise season premiere this Monday night, 9:00, 8:00 Central on CBS. As we were working with the Kesse family on the episode, Drew Kesse, Jennifer's father, mentioned a tip that he thought could be extremely important. On November 7th, 2019, our team went down to Orlando, Florida, with Tracy Sargent to search Lake Fisher for Jennifer, his body.

[00:42:23]

Tracy brought two dogs for this search and both dogs hit the exact spot, the tip mentioned. Here's a little behind the scenes from that day.

[00:42:40]

I don't know the exact name of the city or town that we're in at the moment, but Drew said it was exactly thirteen point three miles from Jennifer's old apartment complex. So it's within the range of where they would suspect someone to dump a body. So that that we do know I mean, the way it looks right now looks like it's very swampy. These huge mossy trees, you know, we can't see the road. It's definitely very secluded. I mean, just from first appearances, it looks like a place that you would do something like this.

[00:43:15]

What happened so far is that there was a particular spot that Tracy was interested in based on the tip. The tip was that 13 years ago, this lady saw an individual with a rolled up carpet dumping it in the water and it set out to her. Obviously, it's a weird thing to do. So, lady, in this neighborhood. Yes. A lady in this neighborhood on the other side of the lake here, she witnessed this like early morning hours and it stood out to her as strange.

[00:43:47]

And I believe she did call the police and tell them this. I don't know if it was somehow lost in translation or if it just sat on a desk somewhere. But what made it come back to light was that a few years ago, Drew Kesse was holding a press conference and they asked for anyone who's made tips at all, please call in and tell us again. And so from that press conference, this lady called True Cassie's team directly and said, hey, this is Worstall 13 years ago.

[00:44:17]

It's always bothered me. So, I mean, she saw that press conference and thought this might be related. I'm not sure if back then she thought that. But either way, even 13 years later, she thinks that it's strange. So today, when chance the first time went out there, he hit almost instantaneously in the exact same spot as that. We had marked almost just like the exact same place that was in question. So then Tracy brought Chance back and then brought out Draco, the second dog.

[00:44:48]

Same thing happened. And both times both dogs hit. They sat down and they, you know, reacted the way that they do. And then they their first urge was to kind of run to the water as if, I don't know, maybe something's in the water or that's the path. But both dogs did that same thing. So, I mean, right now we're looking at this very weird, suspicious tip and in that exact same spot to cadaver dogs are hitting on cadaver.

[00:45:14]

Could someone have cut their finger there years ago? Sure. Is it maybe just blood on the carpet and not a body, maybe no guarantees that it's even Jennifer Kesse. But I think that with that strange story and that, you know just how specific that spot is and then two dogs hitting their you know, you would think that something happened and we're going to find something.

[00:45:35]

But what is this would have been one of those lost tips and had Drew not requested for people to call in and, you know, retell what they heard or saw, then we wouldn't even be here today.

[00:45:48]

So there's a lot of people arriving who is here right now. So basically, the state police is here. So they've phoned in to them. What's going on?

[00:46:00]

They sent out two officers. They just met with Drew, his attorney and the P.I. And the guy in charge is walking down to the pond again with Tracy now to see exactly where this location is. And so I think, you know, from my understanding, what happens next is once they've seen it with their own eyes and they have testimony from Tracy and they feel that it is valid, which I know that they will, then they can initiate some sort of search.

[00:46:37]

They come back in a minute and say, let's go search this and execute on that. And that that happens today before 5:00 p.m.. Yeah. So both dogs hit both dogs hit in the same exact spot here. Drew said this is the first search he's been on looking for Jennifer, where they've had a hit on anything in 13 years. So for what it's worth, that's a big deal. I just showed them where the the witness was at the home across the lake and the area where the dogs indicated and just explaining with the witness, all looking at the logistics of, you know, could somebody actually do this, explaining to them this was completely undeveloped.

[00:47:31]

So certainly someone could easily come here and dispose of something pretty quickly and easily and explain to them how the witness was was very concerned. So concerned that she hid, did not want somebody knowing that she was there, seeing what they were doing. So. It's worth for further investigation, what makes this a little bit more challenging is Water said, those are specialized resources for that. Yeah, I would imagine this is just my best guess being Florida and they have a lot of water.

[00:48:06]

So they would have, I'm assuming, water resources more readily available than, let's say, Georgia or Alabama or something that, you know, is not a lot of water. Yeah. Yeah, up in Venice had never been a part of a surge that had actually become viable enough for the police to be called the police check the area. And I mean, a lot of police, about a dozen officials showed up and looked at the spot. Then they called a diving team in.

[00:48:37]

The divers are suiting up with oxygen tanks. Looks like they're getting ready to enter the water. Copy that. Having those orange suits there, they went enough to their chest and they waded through the shallow area. Now they're going to go in with dive teams with a sweep. You know, they did like a line. You know, there's a lot more legs here in central Florida. There's a lot of water. They they basically run a rope between two guys and the diver follows the rope back and forth.

[00:49:04]

That way, he makes sure he's doing great. Now he's coming out of the water. Is coming out of the water? Sounds like. Of course, if you saw the show or the news, this search did not pan out the way Drew or his family hoped, it did not yield any remains and ended up being just another spot crossed off the list. It was an extremely frustrating day with high hopes in the beginning. Drew expressed multiple times how much he wished this whole thing could just be over again.

[00:49:37]

We're all left hoping that the next tip will finally be the one. That's a wrap on the up and vintage TV series on Oxygen. Thank you all for tuning in. If you have any tips or questions, give us a call at seven seven zero five four five six four one one again at seven seven zero five four five six four one one. If we have any updates on these five cases, our team will make more episodes right here in the future.

[00:50:04]

So stay subscribed. And as always, thanks for listening. Executive produced by Pam Lindsay and Donald Allbright, additional production by Mike Rooney, Meredith Steadman and Cooper Skinner, voice narration by Robert Karda, original music by makeup and vanity set a big thank you to the crew and everyone we spoke to during filming.