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Lock the gate. All right, let's do this, how are you? What the fuck is what the fuck buddies? What the fuck? Darians, how's it going? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast, WITF. You're listening to WTF with Marc Maron. That's a old school resect. Hi, welcome back. I'm Marc Maron. You're listening to WTF today. What the fuck is happening, man? Newly formed federal Gestapo.


That's exciting. I'm not going to go through the news. I I'm just trying to temper, temper the fear, temper the temper, temper the darkness, the bleak, hopeless landscape of current global culture. Fuck, man. How's it going? I'm sorry, I'm being rude. You OK? Are you moving any of those things from home? You would think that people would need them now, you would think that people are at home just wondering about those people that have, you know, either a debt problem or credit card issues, I would imagine are amazing things.


People with money are probably buying things. People with no money are probably selling stuff.


How how's your business doing? How the kids are you finding time for yourself? Are you taking walks, are you going outside or are you talking to friends? Are you saying hello to your neighbors in that awkward way with a mask? Are you cleaning up or are you organizing? Have you got everything together? Or are you in bed, get up, get out, make your bed, shower up, feed the fucking animals and buy animals, I'm talking about your family and then feed your pleasant pets.


Maybe the family can feed itself. I don't know your situation, I just know this togetherness is starting to crack some people. So, look, apparently, we're not going to be shooting. The fourth season of Gwo until sometime in 2021, I do not know, in stand up comedy is going to resurface.


I am not of the type of comic that needs to go do shows in Drive-Ins or at half filled houses spread out as much as I enjoy taking the stage. I don't I don't need to do that. I save some money. I'm OK for now.


You can catch me on Instagram live occasionally. You can catch me here where I'm not being particularly funny. But look, today I'm going to talk to my friend Tom Scharpling. Many of you know Mr. Scharpling, he's one of the great broadcasters. One of the great broadcasters. If you do know him, you probably know him from his show The Best Show, and that's been on a little bit of a hiatus, he's finishing up a memoir, but you can always go listen to the best show.


Stuff at best show dot net. Here's some of the comedy here, some of the amazing.


Pauses of Tom Scharpling, one of the great broadcasting stylists of the of the late 20th century and a dear friend of mine, which happened later in life, a couple of the people that are my closest friends are actually people that I have not known all my life.


But it's turning out as life goes on.


I know them longer than you might think.


I got a call from my first serious girlfriend. Out of nowhere, it's not that we've been totally out of touch, but we certainly don't talk much.


But she, you know, heard the news about Lynn and checked in. And it's really interesting, I mean, that's going back to 1982 83, you know, that's the one that set me on a course, an arc.


Of heart hardened anger over my own selfish, fucking emotional liabilities that persisted for decades.


That first heartbreak, even though I did not know how to love or be loved or even behave properly other than angry and jealous, possessive and insane, insecure and emotionally needy and aggravated, that's a that's a horrendous triangle. Needy, insecure and aggravated. Do not step into that. Tornado, but nonetheless. Through a lot of things, we've stayed in touch and, you know, she's had tragedy in her life. I have this tragedy in my life now and we had a nice conversation.


But what's interesting is when you talk to somebody that was in your life, no matter how long ago was if it was real and it was serious and it was emotionally connected, they are woven into the fabric of your being.


And when I heard her voice on the phone at all, it's not that it all came back. It wasn't it didn't all come back.


But the familiarity was there. It was just like the the symbiosis, the connection, the the sort of emotional frequencies just kind of sync up the laugh.


You hear the laugh of the person that you loved decades ago.


And it's not that it brings you back, but it it reconnects you in the moment to something deeply ingrained and familiar in you. And it's a beautiful thing.


It's happy to talk to her. For some reason, the last few days have not been to great. As many of you said about grief, you don't know when it's going to happen, you don't know when you're going to be overwhelmed with it. But I think what is happening for me now is that. The shock and trauma and sort of PTSD and the haze and fog of reality shattering tragedy. It's starting to recede a bit. And what's left is this sort of like just the the pure Los.


We don't lose. A history with somebody. But it stops. You lose a potential future, it's just, you know, it's just sitting with it. That this is my life and this is not what I signed up for, but what do we sign up for? I mean, that's the weird thing. I, I did not sign up to be the guy crying alone in his bed with his 16 year old cat. I didn't sign up for that.


And I have to let it happen. And there's something about it that I find to be pathetic and embarrassing where it's not.


What it is, it's tragic and it's painfully human, but somehow, in my mind, pathetic and embarrassing to who?


You wouldn't have known it until I told you. That I was laying in my bed looking at a monkey, listening to him as emphatically Weese. And just crying and saying, look, man, it's OK. We did it. You did good, thank you. But then, like, I just kept crying because I was alone and, you know, and I was processing the loss. This is it. This is the life. I'm not saying it's not going to go away or that it's not going to ease up or it's going to be there.


I'm not going to wallow.


I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I'm just having the feelings.


And in that moment, I believe the monkey was like, I get it, man. All right. And then he started licking my hand and grooming me. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, thank you.


But you got to be tired of this shit. And he's like, I'm all right.


All right. For now. But yeah, you know, I've been fucking eating dude, dude, too.


I've been eating pattern. Oswald sent me a box out of nowhere. I get this box of Jenny's ice cream again. And I've gotten it twice now from different people, I think even Jenny sent it to me. But it was from Patan. Now, you know, I thanked him. I said, thanks for the ice cream, pal. Now I can be sad and fat, really, though thanks makes me feel better.


And then like an hour later, a huge basket of food, cookies, brownies, olives, you know, the basket. And then I made a joke. I said, oh, shit. A basket, too. Thanks, man. This is almost as good as my girlfriend being alive again. Then I wrote to Dark, but, you know, we're comics, it was dark, it was, you know, obviously horrendous joke. And he went, ha ha ha.


Oh, man. And then he said, if memory serves, you are at the ice cream and baked goods phase of mourning. So I wanted you to have the primo stuff. And I said, ha ha, beautiful, thanks, I hope you're well, and he said, hope you're doing well and that you're getting better. And I said overall, better some days are sad, and he said the sad days will never truly go away, but the days where you get to experience joy and every other emotion in the spectrum are coming back, I promise.


And I said, thanks, man, it's good to hear that. Patton Oswald stepping up, nice man. That's the thing about friends showing gratitude to them, do that, talk to your friends, and that's what this episode is really about.


Tom and I have done shows before. We did a series called The Mark and Tom Show.


We've done a few of those. I was on his show years ago in New Jersey.


But Tom's a guy that, you know, we became friends later. Not that long ago, really.


And I just love the guy. And he's been really present for me during this time, Viki, between you and me.


He'll come over and we'll eat dinner like once a week. We'll be out back outside just talking Marsalis with some distance between us just having a nice dinner and, you know, talking for a few hours about stuff. Talking about people having some laughs, talking about movies. He just came over last night, actually the night before last. Had some dinner, talked about the safety brothers, Sandler movies, Paul Thomas Anderson. Had a few laughs at the expense of people not present, which is nice, talked about language.


Talked about his new book, he's got to read his manuscript. But it's important to do that, however you're going to do it. Obviously, some of you, like you guys, just talked without masks on and we did. Outside. Not to close. But yeah, man, I mean, you got it, you got to nourish that part of you, you got to stay engaged, you got to get some laughs and.


But I think also it's important to be. Grateful to the people that are there for you and that somehow some for some reason, that's very hard for me to do.


I don't know why it's not not that I don't feel gratitude, but to connect with the words not to be like, hey, buddy. Thanks, man. Thanks for hanging in. But just sort of like, you know, really, because that's the tone.


Like, that's nice and it's polite, but that's you know, that's like pushing it out there, like, hey, you know, great to see. You know, it's different than like, hey, you know, has been very difficult time. And I really appreciate you showing up for me. And I said that to my friend Sam, I sent my friend Sam websites the other duty that guy calls me every night and we talk for like a half hour to an hour about stuff.


I'll tell them how I'm doing.


You know, it started off like a joke. And he's walked me through sort of suicidal ideation, crying heartache, you know, all of it.


But now, you know, we talk and he calls me every night. We just, you know, have a few laughs, talk about stuff, books, thoughts, news, ideas, the future. I just I don't know, I just got overwhelmed the other night and I thanked him, you know, with, you know, in a deep, deeply grateful way, you know, I got choked up.


And because he can't take your friends for granted and we have these people in our lives, some people we've had in our lives forever. And, you know, you just sort of like, yeah, man, best best pals. You're there for me.


But, you know, as you get older and when things start to break down, when things people start to get sick, when you know, just when people lose people, I mean, that's where the fucking.


Tire hits the road south, they say the tire hits the pavement, the wheel hits to the back, where the tire blows out and the rims get all fucked up. That's when you need a friend. When you're fucking you run over a fucking bunch of nails, put their. In the road by Wiley Coyote, the Trickster. And all your tires go out and you're driving on those fucking rims. Because what are you just going to. Give up in the desert.


Eventually, you have to. Start walking. And that's where your friends come in, so. That's what's going on, and this is what this is. Now, this was recorded before Lynn passed away not long before.


And, you know, as I said, you know, Tom and I have. Many episodes where we just talked about, you know, things going on. Things in the culture, things we liked in this recording is actually an attempt to do something like that, and it was just as the pandemic was starting. Right.


And it was really an attempt to to feel somewhat normal, to talk about normal things. And I guess my point here is that it's important to still do that.


Very important or else you're just going to be consumed.


By I don't know what your faith is or you know how you're holding up, but, you know, it's Bleckmann and you got you got a treasure and and really rely on.


That kind of human connection, I think that's why a lot of people listen to this show, it's important to do that. Also wanted to mention there's a new batch of ceramic cat mugs available from Brian Jones. These are the handmade mugs I gave to my guests in the normal times back in the day. So right now, getting these mugs from Brian Jones is the only way you can get them. It's almost like I'm talking to my guests now. I mean, I can send you one if you've been on the show.


But I guess also that saying, like, you can't just break into, you know, Josh Brolin house and get that mug, OK?


You got to buy from Brian. And he's donating a portion of the sales of these mugs to the Connecticut Food Bank. You can go to Brian R. Jones dotcom swag shop starting at noon Eastern today.


As I said earlier, Tom's taken a bit of a break from the best show as he finishes up his book, and you can always check out the best show material at the best show. And right now, Tom is doing a new podcast with Julie Klausner called Double Threat. You can get that wherever you listen to podcasts.


This is me and Tom celebrating things from the normal times coming right up. Folks, I love Ben and Jerry's, and if you've been listening to me over the years, you probably know that I have my favorites. I have my rituals for eating them.


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So wtf to make sure they know that our show sent you.


All right, are you all right? Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm fine, I got a little crazy occasionally thinking, you know, thinking I have something. But I know there will be times when I'm just suddenly like, yeah, this is it. And I just realize it's like, oh, no, I have these things happen my whole life. I have a bit congested for half a day and then it passes. But now now suddenly it's like, well, there's got to be this is it.


And I'm not I'm not going to make it through it. I used to smoke. I'm going to end up in the hospital.


So I will tell you that that coffee I went out of the way and I got some Dunkin Donuts beans, OK, just because. Sure, I got a thing for Dunkin Donuts occasionally. Yeah.


And that was in Ralph's. And I get a bunch of good coffee. I get high end shit. Yeah. And I just saw the bag, Dunkin Beans. I'm like, fuck it now let's go.


I'm living. You're going back to New England. They're all right. You're back there. Boston jacked up. Yeah, jacked up. Did they have in Jersey.


Oh yeah. Dunkin Donuts is everywhere. Chock full of nuts too. Yeah.


Less, less that. But that was more of a Manhattan thing. Like I would see those when I went into the city from New Jersey.


I'd see like chock full of nuts. I bought the canned chock full of nuts for a while, like chock full of nuts.


You'd see the oversized cans and like like my grandmother, like they would grandpa grab just like John thing is chock full of nuts and they would have like a jar sancha. Yeah. I guess they didn't want to think. Oh yeah. Go through the production of making coffee. Yeah. But then but Dunkin Donuts.


That's what got me drinking coffee like doing I when I was like my nobody in my family drank coffee so I didn't grow up with coffee drinkers. But then just at some point when you're like.


Like 18, 19 year, just like I got to check, see what the big deal is about this, it's time. And then it was like, oh my God, this stuff is this.


I was like, I would like I'm on a lifelong journey. I know my head would spin that, like that stuff would make you vibrate.


Oh, yeah. That's what I go for.


Yeah. It still does it. Yeah. I'm coming up now. I'm going up where you're just like Oh wow. Yeah.


And I don't do anything else. I'm clean as fuck. And I ran today so I sweat everything out.


Just going right in. Oh no you're just you know this is like if you just poured coffee in your car, like that's what you're doing right now. Exactly.


You drove up to the empty I mean, empty. Ten gallons of coffee. Yeah, well, that's what I used to do. And I did radio and Air America. I used to have the driver stop at fucking three thirty in the morning and I'd buy one of the, you know, the kind that people bring to the office. And they handled cartons. Oh, no, those yeah.


The I get one of those Dunkin Donuts on the box of Dunkin and I have a bag Eminem's and that's what by the time I got on the air as is crazy, I remember one time I was doing a live thing with, with John Wurster and were backstage and somebody.


And I was just like, so I need it, I was just like just like dying for just its energy and I took like a giant coffee and then I had a thing, a peanut Eminem's I'm eating and somebody, like, saw me. And they're just like like what is wrong with you?


Are you okay? And I'm just like going to ahead and I'm almost like ready to like, put the arms in the coffee.


You don't realize what you look like. You're like a squirrel. Yeah.


You know, you're drinking coffee and you're completely you're so focused.


Yeah. Oh yeah. I know.


Just like if I put the Eminem in my mouth and meant a mouthful of coffee and melts and then I just get that the one two punch of the chocolate and the shell melts away.


And then I got the coffee and it just like it's just the greatest thing. Oh my God. It's like flying high. Some asshole comes and interrupts you. You're all right. Yes. I mean, look at me. It's like, oh yeah, exactly. You're right. It's just like me. I'm doing great. You kidding me? Best I've ever been in my entire life. I got a mouthful of it. Eminem's and coffee. Like, how can I be doing any better?


It was like the highlight of my existence. How are you even asking me that? Yeah, exactly. How do you think I'm doing what you worry about. I worry about yourself.


Look at me. Yeah. Oh my God.


So so you're burning through a lot of a lot of entertainment during this.


What do you what it seems to me like I'm like I liked what you said about Little Richard and and what's his name. Florian Schneider. Yeah. Yeah.


I think that made sense that without a lot of Little Richard in Foreign Schnieder that we would have infinitely less good music.


Well, I mean, it's crazy when you think about it like. Like using my influence, yeah, and it's just like I mean, like Little Richard changed everything. All of it, like over and over and just like really.


Set the pace for just like that kind of performer, there'd be I mean, there'd be no James Brown and Ramen's, there'd be no Prince and there'd be no Ramones, US, all of that stuff came.


I mean, let alone Elvis. But it's just like you see the that drive.


Yeah, there was the fashion of it. There was the showmanship of it.


But his particular, you know, groove. Yeah. It was even more than in a way it was more than Chuck Berry. There was the drive of his rock and roll. Like if you listen to the M.C. Five's Tutti Frutti, you realize. Right.


That's it. I mean that. And then that goes right to the Ramones, right?


Oh, yeah. It's a straight line and it's just dumb.


And it's also funny when you listen to it like these other things and they're so thin sounding and little compared to the original.


Yeah. Thing like sometimes like growing up I was not like a blues. Yeah. Person. And then you hear these blues records and then you hear the Rolling Stones version, just like I prefer the Rolling Stones version because it's just within my frame of reference. It's a rock group player. Yeah.


But then you hear like these like you compare like Little Richard's tutti frutti with like the M.C. Five's virtually empty five's version since it's thin and sure.


A chord kind of like assembled like it sounds like you hear them like holding it in the studio. Right.


Rather than them just playing it live in one room and just write with just mikes hanging over them, just like we got in that piano man.


I listen to the whole box yesterday and that the mono box set of all the for the first five. Sure, sure. It's just there it was just a drive in his voice. And you know, to me that like I was that I listened to that music when I was a kid. I don't know why. That's all I wanted to know how to do on guitar.


Was Katinka encoding it then? In in in in in any you know, I wanted to do those three chord things. And, you know, I guess I got too Little Richard through the Beatles. Mhm. Right. And my dad played all that shit when I was a kid. That was what wired my brain.


I talked about in the podcast just about how like my father's excitement about Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, you know, in that American Graffiti soundtrack.


That was my father's right.


I grew up with the thing that was just like the the template, the Rosetta Stone.


Oh, please. And it kind of is. Oh, you listen to that. And it's just amazing the bases that that the just the range of everything that those records covered. And they were just it's coming out of like a disposable industry. And it's weird how the timelessness came out of something that was just people thinking this isn't going to last two years from now just to turn out the hits.


Yeah. And they turn into garbage. And you just don't worry about what tomorrow is, because we're just gonna make money today on Seven Inch Records, right?




And yeah, I had the Dick Clark twenty years of rock and roll collection and American Graffiti my dad had in the car. We had a Buddy Holly collection. He loved it. Yeah.


And I think I got through like I knew Buddy Holly's slipping and sliding before I knew Little Richard's OK.


Yeah, but those records, all of them, like I always wanted to do if I was going to ever do a music show, I kept thinking about playing the songs that my daddy. So like in the car. Sure, sure. Oh my God.


That that's something I wouldn't be great. Oh yeah. That was like the most formative. Like that's the stuff. It's amazing how simple humans are when it's just like how you're going to hear this when you're eight and you're never going to forget it. Ever, ever. It's because this is this is this will stay with you for the rest of your life and will kind of always be your favorite thing, even if you don't revisit it often. Right.


Or you don't think it's your favorite thing. It's kind of your favorite thing.


I got some a couple of the songs I listen to, like I download them recently, like for like.


Oh but the thing I had was that this is stuff that my father and I bonded around that my father shared with me. But then I realized that it was really one of the rare times where he wasn't upset or yelling or freaked out or, you know, like he was occupied and seemingly excited. Yeah. So it wasn't that he was like, don't you love this? It was like, hey, this is making Dad feel better.


Exactly. That he's happy. Let's keep playing the let's keep the diagnosis. Yeah. Yeah.


I listen to no but that was the one he he loved the struggle for some reason, which I think was the diamonds. And it's got a really weird kind of greasy sax rift. You know that song Gum Licciardello. Yeah.


You know, he liked that. He loved That'll Be The Day and all those things.


But I listen to Peppermint Choice and then Stroll and Little Darling, which was also the Diamond Will A Little Darling is one of my all time favorite songs like that is like the most rockin each song because it's just like it's oh it's overwhelming how much is going on it where it's just like yeah it's like I go I it's, it's just like, it's just, it's happening.


You're just like this is the most overstuffed thing I ever heard in my life.


Oh, my darling. I need you to just like like one minute long, okay, everything is happening in this.


It's really it's just like.


Like that's that thing that. Yeah. That makes a mark on you. And then it's amazing that it's just like I mean, I was not obviously not a kid when that stuff was coming out. No. No. Because of our dads. Yeah. But there's something so.


Pure about it, that it just isn't like timestamp at all, it's just like I mean, you can obviously know when it was recorded, but just like the but but the spirit of it is just he had the proximity to the source point of rock and roll is close.


Yeah. So, you know, and you got to figure the newness of pushing out that way. Mm hmm.


Had to fuel that. So the purity of it is real. Right.


So if if rock starts in 57 or 56, really by a couple of songs that they don't even know, that's what they were doing. Right. Delta 88 or Rock Around the Clock.


Oh, yeah. Ike Turner and the rest just don't even know what they're. Yeah, it was because the critics decided that.


Right. But something happened. You know, somebody somebody decided it's funny that somebody told the story, that it went through someone's lens what this was. Yeah, right. And there's there's clearly there were people watching this story get told and being like, that's not the story. Right. I was there like, who's this guy? Like, he wasn't there. And he thought, backloading some fiction.


He's the one telling everybody how this went. And it's just it's like.


Even like as a kid for like the reference thing I can relate to, it's like Rolling Stone, like I would read like the Rolling Stones like Album Guide, and I would just like stare at the the ratings and the reviews of the stuff.


I was just like, yeah. And then you don't think like it just seemed like there was this like like this is just the truth. And I'm just like, well no, this, that album sucks. Yeah. Because it got two stars from the Rolling Stones.


And then you meet people and you just realize there's not some giant all knowing force called Rolling Stone. It's just like magazine writers. Yes.


Just some twenty four year old Dick who's like now I get the idea. I was to two songs and yeah, they had to review eight records that day.


You work on your record for your whole life and somebody's just like, yeah, I got to write three record reviews today and you're blasting through your thing. They're in a bad mood. This is the last on the pile. Yeah. Apparently you didn't do a very good job. Yeah. Didn't grab me. Yeah. But I just always remember would be just like.


Yeah, like seeing that story, the people telling the story would be like. Like they had their biases where they were just like Rolling Stone was so anti Zeppelin during the 70s.


I don't like I'd never find Black Sabbath right. All that. So they hated it. I don't know where the hell it came to me. Like I never trusted or never knew to read or like, if you're going to pick critics, who the hell are they? I'd look at Rolling Stone, but like, I never like I don't know.


I don't know how I came about the like.


I'm relatively new to amassing records.


Mm hmm. Right. But I know what you're saying, that Rolling Stone, everyone, everyone, they're all curators of some kind like show. The magazine is not a curator, but they have a context.


This is what Rolling Stone believes in and this is what we like. And this is what we don't like. Right. You can see that. You feel that. Yeah.


And it's the same with, like, guys that I buy records from or when I was a kid who turned me on to records outside of my father who set the groundwork, which was good groundwork.


I mean, I think having been, you know, built on the oldies for rock and roll in general, it's good, right?


Oh, you're so kind in there. Mm hmm.


But like then as I got older, you know, I had records everyone had than I. I inherited some records. And then, like, I had a few hundred records in high school and things were happening in high school. And there was a guy in high school that turned me on to the shit.


But now, like I mean, I don't even know what you're sitting on. You're like there's some there's this mysterious thing about you and that, you know, like, how many records do you have?


And then it's like, oh, my God, you know, like you can't even say. And then I picture there's there's probably houses filled with records back in Jersey. Yeah.


There's there's a lot of records, a fair amount. But like what do we talking thousands I guess. I mean I know. I mean it's just it's all I ever did. You know when from when I was ten I started buying records, avoiding secretive about it.


Are you ashamed of the sites?


Well, it's sometimes it's just I always picture the idea that you spend your life collecting a thing and you're just like, don't touch that one, that one thing and then you die. Yeah. And then so it's just that is just throwing all of it in a dumpster with. No, just like I don't know what this stuff is. They didn't buy it at the estate sale just right. It's cheaper to throw it there. Just rent one of these dumpsters they drop in your driveway.


And my brother just going through I don't know, do we keep this. Yeah.


And that's like I picture that being I also don't want to get caught up in the the I don't know, there's like a collecting side of things. That's always been such a bummer to me where it's like it works and it's like this sounds like a like a trite thing, but where people are just like they lose sight of the music being what this is.


Yeah. And I can't do that and I don't have the room for it. So that was sort of the I think I have a fear of I've had a fear of. The records owning me for a while, and it's a scary thing because the records can open, you know, I know and I've bought things sealed like so I had I sealed something yesterday.


I'm trying to remember what the hell it is that I opened because I got a sealed copy of it.


I'm like, who's who am I waiting for to listen to this? You know, I bought this at some point. Yeah. And it was still sealed.


But like, when I go through, like I've been listening to all the records, I've been primarily to a lot of the records, the older records.


I get hung up like I want I want to time travel. I want old records. I get sent a lot of new records and I listen to him a couple of times, but rarely I don't feel like compelled to keep new records.


I don't know why do you. Unless they speak to you. Yeah, you're amazing. Sure. Now I'm compelled to hold on to all of it. This is why I'm.


Oh, trying to.


It's a barrier, that guy. So so you've just got maybe I like it five years from now. I know. Maybe I've got an amazing thing. If I got rid of it then I'm I'm a real sucker for unloading this thing. Now if I'm going to want it five years from now, it's just like just say good bye to it and go get it again.


But you're right. But so have you found that that happens?


You got all these records that you thought five years from now you would like him and now it's ten years later and you still love them, still sitting there like there's a there's a certain philosophy that I have where it's just like, isn't it enough that I knew the right things? If doesn't mean I read the book or I write, listen to the record. It's like I knew what the good ones were. Isn't that half of that? Most of this like.


I think so. I can curate the. But it's like but that's but that's. But it shouldn't be though. It should be like should be able to be happy with just like this little stash of the best stuff and let that be what that is.


We'll see.


But see I can't that my thing has been like I'm amazed at how much I don't know. So like you know, when I deal with, you know, I imagine if we spent time together with your records, I would be like, I don't know anything about this.


And I like that feeling. So like then like, how am I going to learn about this?


Hmm. It's funny. I started this. And the pandemic, this has been a chance for me to start five new podcasts, which is great. I you know, Julie Clough's and I started one we're doing.


And then what do you do it over the. I do it on a zoom on my end, and she's.


Oh, she records good too. And then we just think that's good.


Yeah. Our producer puts it together. That's we're doing that. And that's called double threat. But they also started this other one for like a bonus thing for best show. Yeah.


People and it's me and the producers on the best show. We're going. Year by year through Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, through all of the through every solo album, really. Yeah.


And it's like we just recorded this morning for two and a half hours and I'm just like, we're doing two to each because it's so so you're going backwards to we're we're going in.


We're going chronologically. So we started with the first episode was Everything in The Hollies. The first episode was like Episode Zero would be like everything before season.


So Buffalo Springfield, all those little Bertolli. Yeah.


And then then we're taking two year chunks at a time going forward. We just did 75, 76, and it was just like. It's like one of the worst experiences of my life, Stephen Stills made like four albums a year at one point where he was just like, first of all, he recorded every one of his albums in Miami. So, you know, exactly. Running around with guns is like dressing like either a football jersey or like dresses like some paramilitary guy.


And you're just like and it's just like but it's like he has the music.


Oh, I mean, some of the stuff is like there's these Crosby Nash albums right there where they do what they did one like every eight months. Yeah. And you're just like you guys are just like you guys are like you look like you're dying, like you look at the cover and they look so unhealthy on it.


And these records are just and then but just concurrently, like Neil Young is like transcending. Exactly. He's just like reinventing the whole thing.


Yeah. Every album. Yeah. Like Crosby Crosby's too much.


Crosby asked him, did you listen to the thing I did with him. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great it's just like I'm kind of an asshole.


Dude, he would have stayed at my house all day. Yeah, but but the thing that was amazing about him is like, I never I didn't know him.


Look, I've got I've got plenty of love for Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and Crosby, Stills and Nash. Really.


You know, I don't that's the thing.


I like Sweet Judy, Blue Eyes and and the live record and, you know, deja vu, some of it.


But I listen to it. When I was a kid, it was formative. Sure. But but he like I didn't know him.


And I think I tracked him down on Twitter. I don't know if I told you this and I get this phone call from him to tell you about. Now, now.


Oh, I took time. And and I don't want to get into it now because I don't want to betray anybody but something there was something going on between between him and Graham that involved a woman. And these guys are like, AII right.


I mean, they've made some of this more public now.


Some of the like the but here's the thing like, yeah, he's telling me, you know, he gets things like, look, man, you know, I just don't want to get into that. So if you're planning on getting him, I got no one. I don't know what he's talking about.


But deeper than that, who could possibly give a fuck? Yeah. I mean, they're like ninety and they're he's like, let's not get into the chick. Then what do you do? Is there somebody who is active? We like waiting for this information.


Just they're fighting over chick girlfriends and they're just like still it's it is insane that these guys, first of all, since and all four of them are alive.


It's unbelievable. Like, you know, God bless all of them. They're still. Yeah. All four of the Ramones are dead. Yeah. And all four of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young are a lot I don't think Stills can hear now.


I think Stills is not doing particularly great. Crosby is just meeting kids he had.


Yeah. Yeah. And he forms a band with them. Yeah. Yep.


He, they self publishing self releases his record.


We got him to call the best show one night.


We're just doing the show and one of the producers, Jason, just starts just like poking them on Twitter being like, hey, call up and he calls up what's the weirdest thing that's ever happened.


So he's like, hey man, I just wanna say. And it's just like and I had no preparation for the no new experience David Crosby's online for.


I'm just like, OK, because I'm talking to David Crosby now.


And he was I was just like, I just want to say thank you for calling in.


And yeah, you know, this is one birdsong. Everybody's been burned is when my all time favorite songs were like. And he's like, oh, you like the old stuff.


OK, OK. And then I like quick type like David Crosby Dotcom. I was like, no, no, I like your new album. I like the name of a new album. I didn't know what the name of the I knew was going to call in. I would have listened to it if I had. I was like, I like stars.


How do you say who else was there is new stuff is like OK, ok, you like the new stuff.


And then he just started talking about nukes. Right. They start talking about nukes and but he was so like you just picture him just sitting there.


But he was one of the fucking first, you know, he was like top notch ego monster, just fucking and drugs and just like almost satanic. Yeah. Nasty and fucking cluster fuck up there in the hills, you know.


And he was like the Lord over it all. Yeah.


He was like those guys were the first people that like the hippies were just like. These guys are just out for the money, man. Oh, yeah, like like the money and the sex, like they got singled out, just like they're charging twice as much for concert tickets and they're just like they think they're the rock stars.


And we're supposed to like they were the first ones to kind of get to kind of get dragged by the partly by the counterculture, like CCNY really like represented this this thing or just like you guys are fakes and you're just you're not a part of the call, like.


Right. Right. Right.


Because back then it was always well, that's interesting because that kind of makes sense, because I think the either the an art guy, I mean, they were a Geffen project. I mean, deja vu is David Geffen.


So I one of his first and you know, I think in that in his push. Yeah. Like and he's clearly a guy who's going to sell out the fuckin hippie doesn't care. Yeah.


But I think that I think he was they were with him. I think deja vu is now and I'm just like, what do I know. I mean, they were all kind of hanging out. But obviously guys like Geffen saw a tremendous amount of money in the movie, you know, fuck the cause. They I mean, you can maintain the illusion fellahs.


Oh, absolutely. No, they were like because I think Geffen did that big. They did like this big 74 like mega mega tour where they were playing like football stadiums. Right. And I think that was a Geffen thing.


But, you know, like any of it, I mean, really, I like because Dan's big krosby. So a family like that, I can't remember.


I love that was a girl. I can't remember if only if only if I could only remember my name.


But you like that record. Yeah, I think it's because that's some serious hippie shit there, right.


Yeah. But that's a sad record too because his girlfriend had just died. Oh right.


Like you, you just it's a Yeah. You feel. Yeah. You can kind of feel this is a guy trying to get healed through music and I think that's in it. But then he goes off the rails kind of. Hmm. He goes on the rails and off the rails at the same time.


Oh. On that record he was kind of going to be just like over the next ten years. He's like, you can if you just look at the pictures of, you know, year by year, you're just like an aging like a dog, like it's like every year, seven years with him in jail.


I mean, it's like, you know, ends with a mug shot. I mean, he's got short hair clippers going.


Yeah, but here's my thing. Like a man like I'm going through the records. I've gone through them all. I got I got new record dividers that are very nice. OK, I move the jazz upstairs. OK, so I had more room downstairs for jazz and comedy upstairs because comedy is just sort of a guilty pleasure.


I don't listen to comedies like Jazz, kind of just like, you know, what people are is like my comedy is kind of like jazz. Yeah, I can jazz. You can listen to again. I can't. Yes, exactly. You know, exactly. Throwing on the Shelley Berman album again not to off the two hundredth time. There's no there's no nuance here.


It's like I didn't hear that. What did you hear the beat on that he took it took an extra second before he says like there's a woman hanging outside of the window.


And what is the upper limit of how many times you could listen to exactly record exact three? Well, some of them were kind of like there is one record that I will play for people, and it's Rodney Dangerfield record before he got the hook, like it's called the loser or something.


It's actually signed on where I got it, but it's where he kind of long form bits. So it's all it's Rodney doing this thing that you just don't know him from before he got the respect thing. Yeah. So it's kind of a nice thing. Like, it's kind of nice to listen to people before they, you know, fully formed. Oh yeah. Yeah.


But I think the most interesting thing about comedy records is just the bad decisions people make about the cover art, which I've done myself like.


You know, when you look at comedy records, like how did they think that was a good idea? Even peers of mine, people we know. Yeah, we have record covers.


We're like, really? You're holding up the thing with the thing.


You make it always like, what are you doing?


Those the covers of comedy records and. The the way a stage is dressed on a comedy special to me are so telling where you come out of the giant pencil.


I've made bad mistakes. People are just like bad. I got props.


It's like a just like it's like I'm in the playground.


But they give you these options. That's the fucked up thing. Is that like that's the worst thing you can do. Yeah. Because it's like with this Comedy Central half hours, you're like, yeah, let us know what you want to do at the stage.


So my first one, I did two of those and the first one I'm like for some reason I'm like, I want a sideshow banner, OK?


Because I thought I don't know what I thought I thought would be interesting.


Yeah, but it just looks weird. It's just a fat lady and, you know, and I'm like, what was I doing and what does it mean?


People are like, what's that? Why do you have that up?


Yeah. And then the next one was worse where it was worse.


I am ashamed of what was it. It's like 2002, 2006, I think. And like I'm like, you know, I want I want it.


Which is not one of your big big you're not one of your banner years to know it wasn't bad. I was at Air America. It was pretty political. Yeah. You know, I had I was to you know, that was type it is pretty political. Yeah.


So I had this idea I mean, in terms of like you were because people who maybe don't know the whole you're saying it's like you are not.


Oh yes.


Right after. I think I just was I separated yet. I might it might have been right before we got divorced.


Because you had the two. Because I was looking at seven. The Air America thing I always look at is like after 2004. Yeah. It was like because I went to that I went to that election party that Air America 2004 election party. Yeah.


Which was one of the most I mean that to me was the launch. You mean the launch party for Air America? No, no.


Like literally the night of the 2004 presidential election when it was just like. Oh yeah. Like when like when Bush won. Yeah, when Bush won. And it was just like Sam, I would talk to Sam Cedar in the morning and he would just be like, he's like, Kerry's got this in the bag. I just talked to somebody. Yeah.


You fucking answer. Donald did that to me with Hillary to at the fucking Bowery. I'm like, dude, is she going to win. He's like Oh yeah, I'm you.


And I just remember being at that party and watching, like, people like because I they're I can't remember.


It was just but it was such I just remember seeing like. Rachel Maddow, yeah, and Lizz Winstead, yeah, Lizz Winstead, and they were people were just like, well, there's counties in Ohio that haven't come in yet and those are more Democrat.


And just like you just watch this over, we lost.


Yeah, but people are just trying to, like, pull hope from nowhere. And it's just like and felt like the Air America thing was just like. This place existed to beat this guy, and it's like, what's this going to be now? Is that why did you just keep pushing against it? So, yeah, for me it was fine. But but the set was the problem where I thought, like, I'm going to have a big picture of a herd of sheep, OK, going the other way.


And I'm going to be you're the sheep on the other one going the one sheep.


Sure. It's not that I'm not going with the herd. Yeah.


So there's a picture of literally a photograph of the asses of a herd of sheep. All right.


And then somehow I signed off on the idea to have one stuffed sheep shirt on the stage. OK, so and I did that.


That exists in the world that there was a point where somebody said to you, you like the sheep and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, put the one out there, because that sort of solidifies message.


Yeah. You know, you just see me standing up there with she passes. Yeah. Behind me and a big stupid stuff. Sheep on stage. And in my mind to my I'm nailing this.


I'm nailing this. That's so funny that you get to the point where you're just like. Of course, they don't need any of that, nothing like you needed literally none of it. Well, they gave you the option, that's what I'm telling you. That was their way of personalizing it because they turned those things out. The 1/2 hours were all shot one week, sometimes two and a day.


Yeah. So, you know, you kind of they're like, what do you want? We're going to make it your own.


And whatever backstage look like at that thing is a giant crib. And then I remember, but like every comedian has little or nothing. Well, they yeah, they're good.


That's what they put their money into is I guess, getting these set changes. But that what did it take for my nothing. You know, they put a slide up and they brought a stuffed sheep in.


We got the slide and the sheep got for good. This guy's easy. Yeah. And the other time is just a sideshow banner.


That was a bad that was bad because like, I was you know, I was not sober yet and I came out to L.A. It was a sad experience and I was still married to Kim. I don't remember what year that was weird.


You tape that at, like over here in Hollywood on Vine. I remember what theater was. It was one of those theaters over there.


OK, the evar maybe or something where they I don't remember.


Um, but but it was like that was the year that Hedberg taped his that changed his life. That thing he did.


I was there and he was like, he didn't do that well but the kids loved it. Yeah. And I remember they bussed in a lot of Samoans. I don't know why they were bussing in audience members. And all I know is that, like, I'd come out here, I knew my material and I watched some of it the other day and it's bad.


And I wore a black suit with a red shirt. I was well groomed. I really was like, I'm going to stay clean. I'm going to come out here and just be cool.


So like the night before the special, I just went over to the guy I did drugs with at that time who was out here, you know, and Bob, I was like, I just do a couple of lines.


And they ended up like up all night, not with him, but just in my fucking hotel room going like, why the fuck I do that?


And I do the I do the SAT and it's bad.


It's OK.


Nothing lands like someone had done the thing on YouTube or written an article, a deep dive into the rabbit hole of me just all the way up through the current special and had a long clip of that one I'm telling you about.


And I'm like, oh my God. And there are things I remember loving, loving about that set.


And so here's how this was the worst moment about it.


Those like I do this, Fugate's my first half hour for Comedy Central and I walk into the dressing room and I got no friends there. Nobody's there except my coat guy, except for Bob.


And and he's in the green room going, they got roast beef. That's that's what I walk on stage is Bob.


Yeah. Standing there with a plate of roast beef. Yeah. Didn't even say good set. And I was sort of like, yeah.


What the fuck have I become now. This is bad. Yeah. I played I was it Maxwells for a yellow Tiangong one the first. And that's one of the first times we had an extended conversation with one of their Hanukkah shows.


That's right. And I never felt like I did well at those things. That was the night you and I had a long conversation right in the hallway and I decided, like, we should be friends.


Exactly. It's like back then, it's just like this thing where, like, you're like it is such a weird thing where you're just not sure, especially when you carry so much stuff like shittiness. Yeah. For and which I know I do, where I'm just like I mix it up with this guy. What's it like to be sure. Like this guy should go after like for no reason.


Yeah it's it's so.


Yeah. Fetich. Yeah. I can't. Oh no. He's a great guy. I like him. It was sweaty too. Wasn't sweating. It's always hot.


The Maxwells muscles are those Yo La Tengo Hanukka shows. Yeah. Were so. Crowded, and I just remember early on, like I tweeted something that was like a weird blind item sub tweet thing that like about taking a shot at some at another podcast, not at not at you. Right. And I remember Brendan like writing me before I even knew Brendan.


And he's just like it's like, hey, man, are you talking about us? I'm like, no, he's like, oh, cool. Because I like your show. And I was kind of like, oh, I like your show too. And then suddenly it's like, that's all it took to be just like Brendan. Exactly. Friends with everybody was just like, no, no, no. I was good. I was ripping on somebody else.


Oh good.


I don't like them either. Yeah. Well that's exactly like. Yeah, they're terrible. Oh good. We're friends with sad state of affairs, the Rodney thing you're saying.


I've been watching so much like he has a YouTube channel up now.


I guess there a lot of like all The Tonight Show.


So like I said about him, I say about him is like, you know, it's odd that in the big picture in the history of comedy, he doesn't get the respect he deserves. He still doesn't know it. And he's great.


It's unbelievable the level of it's like him and Rickles covered every thing I'm interested in, like those who represent all of the comedy I could ever want to think.


And it's like. His thing is just so like if you don't if you watch a bunch of The Tonight Show things you realize, like the game within the game, that when he would sit down on the couch with Johnny and then just be just kind of like they're just going through just like hell.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dumb kid. Yeah, yeah. We're going to do this ramp up to like he just like he just like and he gets to and it's just like you could see the amount of fun that they're having knowing that this is a game that like oh he's looking to do is land one with Johnny.


And it's like like he doesn't always win one because like because Rodney like right out of the gate, he's like everything's twitching every day. Everything is moving on that guy's head, his arms, his legs and he's sweating. He's touching himself. Yeah. It's like it's everything's going and it's all funny. It's it's the funny the the funniest conceit is that he sits down and then Johnny goes, how are you doing? It's like, I'm doing good. Last week I was in rough shape last week.


Rough idea that like to tell you rough shape last week.


Last week I was in rough shape is the funniest thing I've ever heard. And then when like one doesn't land, he'll just go like, well, you know, not all funny that someone just not to be cute is like and that just kills Johnny. The idea that just like he knows when he bombs.


Oh my God. He's only trying to learn jokes, man. And it's like he's so like he's such a package guy. Oh. And then to find out in retrospect, he's been paralyzed with depression.


Oh he's profoundly sad. Oh yeah. Unfixable. Yeah. Richard Lewis, you say he referred to it as the heaviness I got the heavy.


Oh yeah. Heartbreaking. Yeah. You can just feel it just like I mean I just think you you feel this guy and there's this seems like there's a part of him that's just like where were you bums when I was trying to make him look me. Thirty years to get here.


I hate all of you. I had to sell pot out of my trunk and been fucking go get into the aluminum siding business with Joe ANSYS because I had fucking kids. Yeah, you asshole.


Exactly. Where were you guys. You made me you made me grind it out till I'm in my 50s before you started paying attention. Yeah.


Everything like, oh, all he's doing is trying not to get sucked into the vacuum of self, you know, it's just the darkness he's fighting. I'm trying not to drown here, Johnny. Don't give me. And it just won't. I'm swimming.


He just knows to not show the person like he just knows. It's just like I'll never show you. I'm not. And like, once all you get these little glimpses of like the like the act.


Yeah, yeah, yeah.


And where he'll just be like, like he'll just say like like I got dates, I'm playing over it, you know, I got this movie coming out easy money and it's a good movie but I really like doing the live stuff. It's just like, like you just know he hates like he hates these movies, like he just, he just knows he's grabbing. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever they'll give him he'll take. Yeah. But it's not why he's there.


The live show like standup is what. Yeah. Yeah. You kept the lights on for the guy and then whenever he gets to that moment where he's just like oh I played a lot of rough places like Veto's Boom Boom-Boom Room. Really. Like if normally Annunzio Yeah.


It's, it's a I'm so glad these I like looking at those two.


I always end up on him too.


I like Rickles to the thing I liked about Rickles is that Rickles, like almost always on TV appearances, would say like twenty percent of what he said makes no sense at all.


Oh it's in me. Yeah. It's, it's just word salad. It's like it's just like this guy, he's got the thing on his head with the two four things in the ninth in the and the five spaghetti O's. Yeah. Looks like this guy is busy knocking on the door. He's trying to tell me he's trying to sell me a pair of pants and you're just like what's that mean.


Like the timing was always good.


He just knows he can like ram it through and he knows like some of these are nothing I've ever like.


Watching him do is special and like the thing that killed me, I'll never forget. He just he says to some guy up front and I think it was a play. Is that because where did you get that suit that come with that?


Two pairs of pants and a yo yo, yo, yo?


He said he would go his there's this like I think it's like a it might be like five hours long of him every every like it was like I think it was like every Letterman appearance for Rickles from there from like eighty three all the way to when like his like final one.


And it just like when he came out with cocaine when he would be out there already, like they would come back from a commercial break, he'd be sitting there because he couldn't walk so but he would be like one of the funny, it's like one of the meanest and funniest things.


He did this. He would like all he would like do variations on jokes, or he'd just be like he'd be like, you know, Dave, I went to I was on Jerry Lewis telethon and he comes out, he sings, You'll never walk alone. The kids get up and leave.


And this is like that's the meanest thing. But he does like there are moments where you watch Ricky. And he's filled with real fury, like, you know, like you can see it like it's all but like something behind there that's sort of like, oh my God.




Well, he also he it must be a thing to know you're the court jester for them for for these for these like.


Do you ever see that one of him, just where they set up a makeshift Vegas lounge for him to entertain people in show business? Have you seen that? I don't know. I don't know. It was like I don't know who did it was a Dean Martin roast or something.


I think I might have it. But they're like, you know, this guy, we're going to he's the guy who does this. And we if you've never seen him in Vegas, so they created on the set like a stage for him to do his shtick. But in in the audience is Pat Boone and like all these weird celebrities of all different kinds. And he just goes, Adam. Oh, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy because he's sweating and it's like it's probably how is it not the worst nightmare, you know, but it must be it must be the worst and the like.


He's he's bulletproof. He knows it. Just like I can say. I have the mic, I can say whatever I want and you people are going to laugh, oh, he's not the roast when he says they like.


His timing was so good when James Jimmy Stewart, Jimmy Stewart on the dais and Rickles like Jimmy.


I talked to the family. You're doing fine. Those are always good.


Oh, my God. He would like he that album. He did this album. Hello Dummy. Which is like just the stand up.


And it's like with the song at the end, I don't know.


At the end of it there's the speech he always did where it's like we I was in the Navy and we stood on that ship and we looked out and we were all brothers and.


Right. I don't make fun of little people.


You're all big like you just like it's kind of a cop out. But yeah. But he like there's a point where he's like. He's just shown he could, like, make fun of anybody, is like, where are you from? And the guy is like, I'm well she's like, let me make you feel at home.


Aren't Caven like.


So he could just do it like a mining joke. And everybody is like I was like, this guy is just like he can say anything, he could spin anything. It's all rhythm. It's all pace. Yeah. And it's just like force of the words. Yeah. Like you have to kind of realize how little you need. It's like it's not unlike the specials. You didn't, you realize you didn't need a sheep on stage.


Now you don't need anything and then you're better off without even shooting the audience. That was the best thing I started doing. Don't ever cut to the audience. It's just a trick so you can cut make cuts. Why look at that weirdo white guy like even the improvs. It's like, why am I looking at those people?


I never want to see the audience, any of those things. And it just feels like, you know, I can't stand the comedy specials whenever there's, like, this thing when, like, you like something to make a reference to, just like that. But like, yeah. You know, they'll basically mention some either like either a gender or ethnicity. And then they cut to the audience member who lines up with the joke. It's like that's like one of the it's like the worst thing I ever saw in my life to black people.




They're just like there was nothing worse than the audience cuts during. I think Paul Rodriguez did a special in a prison. Mm. Just horrendous.


So that might be the only one I would want to see audience reactions to it. It just but they would like people clearly didn't want to be seen.


What is the what is for you. The ceiling on. What is a for, for comedy. Crowd wise, size wise, like what? Where do you think it gets lost? I would say you you start to kind of buckle at twelve hundred.


OK, I think you can still kind of make something intimate with twelve hundred and make comedy real, like you can still reach the once you get up into like 2000 or you know, 1500.


What was Carnegie Hall. Twenty two hundred. Yeah but that's a different kind of that room's got like the perfect sound situation.


So that like when you did Carnegie Hall you, you felt like you were reaching the people.


I felt like I did not do well, but I thought that was such a fun show. Never got off stage in like two hours because I was sitting there. I was sitting one row and from behind your mother. And then you just went off and you did the stuff about your mother. And I'm watching your mother watch this.


What was the highlight of my life? Right now? I'm watching this guy reckon with this thing person. And twenty however many thousand people. Yeah, they're great. We're all spectators to this guy finally squaring off with his mother.


Did I do them? Yeah. You just like because you're doing the whole thing about just like, why don't I get to pull the plug?


Why are you all right about my brother. Yeah, your brother. He's the number one. He gets to pull the plug on you. Yeah. Yeah.


Why does he get to kill her like boxing. You do that in front of her two to her.


Really. Was this like you could just erase all the. It would just be it was you and her sitting in Carnegie Hall.


And then I had the lady bring out my phone to read the email from my father.


Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, I was riffing.


I it's a big night for me to fucking riff for an hour, but that's the cat that to you is like, no, that's a different structure.


Yeah. It was, that was tricky. I felt the weight of it. OK, like you could like I can open my I can feel when I'm open and when it starts to buckle like I can feel like like in my heart OK. I can feel like oh no, I got to fight now. Like I'm losing them back. OK, did you feel like you lose.


I know this is so interesting to me. Do you feel like when you look at a theater. Yeah. Are you focusing on sections. Are you focusing on the entirety of the room or you know, when you're in it, when you're on stage.


Oh wait. Some theaters like have a good roll to them and you know, you feel, you know, boogied like say it really depends also on the acoustics in the theater.


But like when I did a symphony hall both times I did a symphony hall, um, three times I did one in San Francisco, I did one in England and I did bam like there like that that type of structure that's built for an orchestra. Like I started to feel like like at any second I could get zero laughter.


OK, and I don't know why I like it was just like that was there was the potential for like the connection. The break. Yeah. What it is. Right. Right. Feels just like. Yeah.


Like I'm going to be up here alone and I'm going to hear myself talking and it could happen. Yeah. And I don't know why and I think it's my own fear.


Maybe it's because ultimately that's on me. Right. Like I don't know what what makes me continue to be confident in those moments. But even when you're bombing, you've got to keep doing the act so like you do not.


And it's a liability.


It can happen. And it's a horrible feeling. I don't know why, but like, I can't open back up and here I am, you know, not even on autopilot, but I'm just doing it. But I'm not connecting. And now I got to live with this.


Yeah. Yeah. For an hour. It's the worst. And and I don't know, I always think it at a symphony hall. It's sort of like this isn't built for one, you know, troubled Jew.


This is built this is built to house a symphony. Yeah. You know, people that spent, you know, put together a big thing. Yeah. Not me going, oh, God, what is going to happen with you?


And do you do feel yourself watching yourself do it? I've only had that happen once or twice. Like it's observant when you leave your body. Yeah, the worst.


And I literally like I to go backstage, do what you can. I mean, I'll meet you back there. I'm sorry buddy. I just can't hang out for this. Oh my God.


But that's funny that that this one form caps out at such a relatively low number before you start to feel like you lose the connection to me.


You know, I mean, guys like do arenas, you know, and but like, I still think a lot of that's a cash grab. I mean, who the fuck would go see comedy at a football state?


That's what I don't understand. It's just the idea of like when you would have when there was that stretch where all these people were playing Madison Square Garden and the like.


You know, I think Louis and Amy Schumer and everybody was like like got to do the garden, right? Yeah. Like they were doing the garden.


And it's just like that's what does that 15000 people for a stand up thing. Or if you're not even doing the back, if it's it's over ten. So. It just feels like there's there's just such a there's such a ceiling on any kind of connection you could have just based on it looks like.


Yeah, right. But you're doing a different kind of thing. Your jokes, like, I can't like I like room so I can fuck off, you know, and find something new, you know.


But if you're tight and your jokes land like like you got in order to do that size, your room, your jokes, you've got to land strong.


You can't just you know, you can't be thoughtful. You can't you can't be lyrical.


Really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like then you're going to come to the end of it and people are going to be like is it done, you know. So you know, like you'll notice most of those guys to do the big rooms.


They're going to, you know, everything, boom, boom, boom.


Oh yeah. It's, it's got to be it's a it's like the equivalent of just like just you have to it's like like if you're going to be a band playing there, you have to just keep your thing has to translate. Yes. To the whole room.


And that's why they play the hits man. You know what I mean. Like yeah. It's just got to land in like I mean I could do it and I've gotten better at doing, I did those oddball things for 20000 people. And I when I do it I'm like, which jokes do I know?


Close, strong and a lot of guys. That's all they think about. Like everything like.


But some of my jokes are, you know, they're, they're, they're not, it's not they don't close strong, but they go a different direction. They're more personal. But you don't you don't really have that option there.


Now I know when you're in a place like that, you know, anything that anything that's subtle you can read as not working. Right. Right. Which is just such a crazy thing.


But that's the way that is. It's just the nature of the thing. But with music, it's amazing that there's like there's no ceiling on how big. If you're big enough for the people, you can play to 200000 people that five people can be playing for 200000 people.


Every works. Yeah, because it's music's magic. Yeah. Because everybody has a relationship of different, like with the song and they can listen to it over and over again. Yeah. And you know, they're just all amazed. It's just it's a whole different thing. Yeah. But it's so funny that when they first started having bands at Madison Square Garden, I remember I think I was talking to Terry Reed who is opening in a band opening for Cream or somebody I think it was Terry.


And when him and Clapton got into Madison Square Garden, you know, and they were walking around it like looking at it, marveling at it because they'd seen Sonny Liston fight there on television.


Yeah, it was because bands had played their traditional boxers.


Yeah, that is so funny. It's just because it's an all purpose entertainment center. Right.


Where it's just like, yeah, we'll have we'll have Elvis is going to be here and then there's going to be the Knicks are going to play a game. Yeah. Tomorrow. It's just like then we're going to a hockey game in here. It's just like everything. Yeah. Yeah.


Well that was the weird thing about Carnegie Hall that had to realize too is like as mythic as that place is.


Most of the time it's not filled, you know, like it's it's some Saturday afternoon concert series. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know, it's a Persian fiddle player, you know.


But but I'm not saying that's bad, but I'm just saying he's not there's so much weight to it like it's Carnegie Hall.


It's like no one ever goes there.


It's like they run things every day. Yeah. Yeah.


You have four times a week and they're like, oh we only got twelve people in there for the Persian dance, just the functional concert hall. We're just like, we got to do something here.


The worst part about that night was like outside of me not feeling great about it was, you know, we, you know, I have I had my management scrambled to get Katsas for everybody and put it in a room upstairs. And I wasn't told that, you know, if we're there after a certain hour, they got to, you know, pay the union overtime.


And so, like, there was all this meat upstairs and we all go into this room and all these people came up and they were like, you got to get out.


Like, what's going to happen to this was kind of yeah, it was rough. And I didn't realize that the festival was like just we don't want to pay them anymore. Yeah. You got to get out.


And I mean, you walked like 90 blocks. Yeah. And and Nate Berkus, who gave me some dip, I remember I was Skopec in and you and I were decompressing.


Now that was exciting. That was just like took the walk, seeing that whole thing. And just you kind of you kind of like doing a postgame thing after it was not was very flattering that you asked me to be there. And it was such a it was a special night I didn't feel. All right, you said you recorded it. I know it's not like I can't release it. I have it somewhere. Yeah, I have a hard time.


I listen to it. That'll be in your box set. It'll be in the box set.


I thought I talked to Schlissel about putting him out. He's got most of my records, you know, to put him out. But like, is comedy really like that? There are some records I've done like. Final engagement seems to resonate with some people because it's like it's such a dark, angry record and I recently talked to Louis Katz, who's a comic, which going through a breakup and he's like, I listen to it. I think it was helpful.


And it was like one of these records where I'm like, I'm going through that separation. I'm heartbroken, I'm angry. I can barely keep my fuckin standing together. And I call up Schlissel, who does recording. I said, I think I got something. You should just meet me in Seattle with the shit where. And he did. And I got the worst comedy club in the world to let me work there. And we taped like four shows of me, just sort of like in the darkest place in my life.


And it exists in the world.


Yeah, well, it's and now it's it's helpful to people that are going through heartbreak. Yeah. You made yeah. That's the comedy equivalent of some of these records. Exactly.


Well this was fun. It was great. Good. Oh yeah.


I'm about to have a crash from the coffee. Yeah. No, that's that's how it works. I think we got a lot done. Yeah. Well I think Tom, take care of yourself.


You have to stay safe. All right. That was me and Tom Scharpling, you can hear, Tom, if you go to the best show archives, as I said earlier, at the Best Show Nather, you can listen to his new podcast with Julie Klausner. It's called Double Threat. And you can get that wherever you get podcasts. I mentioned that I'm getting fat and Tom and I the other night, as I told you earlier, about the gift basket from Pat and Tom and I just pulled out the brownies, the cookies and the brittle and the other thing.


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