Hey, folks, today's episode is sponsored by the new Showtime comedy series Moon Base eight, starring Fred Armisen, Tim Heidecker and John C. Reilly. Three subpar astronauts are stationed at NASA's Moon Base Simulator in Winslow, Arizona, trying to qualify for their first trip to the moon with sky high optimism and Soso capabilities, they're determined to prove they've got the right stuff with new episodes every Sunday. Moon Base eight premieres November 8th, only on Showtime. Don't have Showtime.

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All right, get out there. Vote today. Tomorrow. That's it. Those are the only options left. All right, let's do the show.

Lock the gate. All right, let's do this, how are you? What the fuck is what the fuck buddies? What the fuck next? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. I assume most of you have been here before. Maybe there's some new people. I don't know why this would be the day that you would check in all of a sudden, but if you're here, welcome. If you don't know what we do here, we talk openly and honestly about the struggles of being a human being on almost all levels.

We talk freely and openly about many different things vulnerability, creativity, art, work, fear. Substance abuse politics, we talk about everything with people to get to the heart of what people are, I think I think that's what we do here. So if that sounds good, welcome. If you already knew, that's what we did here. Well, there you go. Sorry. You know, what am I doing? What am I doing right now?

What am I even talking about right now? Jesus Christ, tomorrow is like this. It's like I'm beyond stress. I'm post stress. I post fear. I'm post nervousness. I'm in some sort of strange paralysis that feels like the present. That feels like acceptance on some level.

I know what we're up against. I know all the machinations of the garbage people and what they're going to try to do to steal the country, to destroy democracy. I know all of that. I know how the voting works. I know what we're up against. You know, in the next day or two or next week or next month, we'll know whether American democracy is over. Or we get new management.

And try to salvage what's left from the wreckage so either will get that opportunity with new management to salvage what's left of our institutions, our norms, our system of government will be able to salvage that with the new management, you know, perhaps take a responsible approach to this sickness that's leveling the global economy and destroying people.

Perhaps we'll get a chance to salvage that with new management. New leadership or else it will be sold as salvage. By the current situation, by the garbage people and the grifters and the con men and the incompetent children put in charge of big bureaucracies that a lot of people depend on who give zero fucks about those people's lives sold to salvage the fucking nightmare. But that's the precipice we're on. And I don't know how I why I've arrived where I met today, the day before this election and go vote.

If you haven't, for fuck's sake, there's no excuse not to really. There's no principle you can sit on for that one. I'm not going to vote because. Shut up before I get too caught up. Let's let's lighten it up a little bit.

I made a cake. Anyway, Dave Cross is on the show now. Dave's been on before. Dave's an old friend of mine.

This is actually Dave's sixth time on the show. He's been on two live ones, two in the garage, one on the phone.

But this is really this is actually the first time we've talked to Dave in a while.

And, you know, he's got he's in this new movie where I think he really puts the work in as an actor.

But more importantly, you know, I saw him on TV. I was just flipping around and I've talked a bit a bit about this before. You know, I don't know if it's nostalgia or just.

Taking stock of who we are by going over our past and I was watching Dave Cross on TV on one of his specials, and there was just something so familiar about the way Dave talked and moved and thought, you know, from back in the day, you know, we kind of started out together. And it made me remember made me feel made me know that I came from someplace, that I arrived somewhere else when I showed up in Boston and I met all these dudes and, you know, I committed my life, my fucking heart to stand up comedy.

You become sort of this weird family. It's not necessarily that supportive or whatever, but we were a crew of fucking gypsies and weirdos.

You know, bordering on outlaw's just trying to find our way in this goddamn racket and try to figure out who we were up there and, you know, he was part of that beginning's. And he's one of the guys who I see and he's remained himself at his core in a way, but I've seen him kind of grow up.

But whatever the fact is, whatever the case, the familiarity made me feel good.

It made me feel emotional, made me feel like I I have I have memories and friends in the world that I can sort of be grateful for and be happy about.

And then you just came to be that Dave and I get to talk. Got to talk. He's got this he's got this new movie out is called The Dark Divide.

It's playing in theaters and in virtual cinema. You can go to Dark Divide film dotcom to find out the best way to see it based on a true story. Talk to him about that and about other stuff.

But getting back to it tomorrow, I don't know what to expect, but I'm going away. Got somebody set up shop here at the house for a few days and watch my little cat, Buster. And I'm going to just go up and isolate, really going to isolate, try to disconnect until the 4th and by then it should be. Everything should be on fire with no known winner and Trump declaring himself the winner and, you know, just a.

Flaming violence in every major city. No, I'm kidding, that can't happen. What can it? We'll see. But the truth is, I've have to prepare. I have to prepare. In my mind, I guess this is how I framed it, sadly, that. Either we're going to get the new management or we're going to enter into a very dark authoritarian time. And aggressively, sort of kind of proud, fascistic time of minority rule and chaos that has happened in many countries around the world, most countries have gone through it for some reason.

We just didn't think it could happen here. And now we know how fragile it all is, don't we? And we'll see what happens.

I think there is a better outcome. The management would be good, but it's going to be an uphill slog, but the weird thing is, is we know who everybody is now. Everybody knows who their neighbors are. Everyone knows who their family is and where they stand. Who are the people that crave fascism? Who are the people that crave a simplicity, a kind of myopic. Minimal spectrum of human expression, art, ethnicity, gender choices, and it's interesting now to see, you know, who is who's jockeying for relevance in the possibility of authoritarianism.

What is the fascistic demographic? Who's going to play to the fascist demographic? Like, obviously, you talk about these bubbles and these bubbles are political and people are being misinformed by their bubble. Like if you talk about the Fox News bubble, you know, you can see the simplicity of it. You can see the editorialization of it. You can see them avoiding certain stories to feed.

Propaganda machine that engages and encourages American fascism, you can see it and there's no follow up, when those people want to source their information, they go straight to the bullshit spigot and, you know, connect the dots land of random conspiracy theories. So that's that. There's your demographic. Who are the entertainers in that future?

I don't know. Few country artists. A couple of podcasters that we know, a few comics, cannier, but whatever it is, the fascistic demographic will exist and be marketed to.

That's how capitalism is going to survive. Hopefully, it will not be the form of government. We'd be better off if it just becomes a demographic of sorts as opposed to the replacement of democracy. I don't know, man, I just don't know, do you? We're sponsored today by Squarespace, which makes it easier than ever to launch your passion project, but what does that really mean? Well, let's say you want to get a new business off the ground, or maybe you need to display your art or have a podcast idea.

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Head to Squarespace dot com slash WTF for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code to save 10 percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that Squarespace dot com slash WTF offer code wtf. You know, I made a cake the other day.

I told you about the failed Kentucky butter cake, but it's just in my mind it's just the way I am. I'm like, I got a fucking master this. So I went at it again.

And I made a beautiful Kentucky butter cake. Whatever that is, powdered sugar on top had some nice slices. Gave my friend Kip part of it. Gave my neighbor a couple slices, gave my therapist. So I still had many slices left three days in, I finally threw the remaining three slices away because nobody wants a three day old cake. And I read like half of it, not to mention I'm sitting on a trove of fucking Halloween candy. Nobody came out for Halloween, I guess they in L.A. they said you couldn't.

I even know that nobody bought the goddamn candy. I was out in the street chasing kids down the two or three that were out there with their parents.

I had to go out in front, you know, at the end of my my sidewalk and look around and go like you want candy. I got candy. I got candy over here. Who wants candy? Some people, no costumes, so one kid walking around dressed as a cop had a weird moment. I thought he was dressed as an ICE agent, but it was it was just a cop and he had a whistle. Must have been for this kid, even know what he was doing.

Just blowing the whistle with his mom, wandering and walking him around, gave him some candy. And I gave a Teenage Mutant Ninja some candy and a couple of witchy looking girls, a little bit of candy with their folks.

And everybody's wearing masks. I'm not wearing the scary mask.

Or I maybe I'm wearing the scariest mask of all the mask of hopelessness in the face of plague. Would you go as frightened middle aged man who can't see the future clearly anymore and is battling with hope and existential despair?

Wow, that's scary. I know. And all I took is just a little mask and I was able to pull it off.

So now I got a bunch of that candy cakes gone. Now I'm going to go away for a few days and see if I can do that. It's weird. I'm going myself, but I'm going myself. I mean, can you believe it's November already?

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Dave Cross is an old friend, and I was happy to talk to him about his new movie, The Dark Divide is now playing in theaters and virtual cinema. You can go to Dark Divide film dotcom to find the best way to see it. We also talk about how we're both playing Jerry Wexler in two different Aretha Franklin projects. And also we tried this new thing where we sent Dave a microphone that he could use pretty easy to use.

And we're trying to get the sound quality up a bit. And we sent him the microphone and we spent 15 minutes trying to help him set it up, which was, as you know, Dave, how is that not going to be hilarious? Right. All right. This is me talking to my old friend, David Cross.

Hello, David. Hey, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. I forgot we were friends, so yes, it could be better. Could be worse that I'm not here for a job interview. Yeah, it's me, Mark. So so did you. You haven't used this before? I have used it here at home. I tried it to make sure it was good. And it does give a princess. Is this better?

That's great to me. Thank you guys so much for giving me this microphone.

Wait a minute. I thought we were. I thought I said to Brendon. I said to Brendon right before this, you're the first guy we sent it to Mike. We're going have to get another one because someone's not going to send this back, you know?

Well, when I got the I got it in the mail, nobody told me this is coming or to expect it. And I got this box from Marc Maron, you know, an old boot box, maybe not even that old, but you seem like the kind of guy who collects boots, right?

What does that mean? Why would you say you have more than it means you have more than a pair of boots. That's.

Yes, but what? So why do you why are you why are you seeing this as a negative? Because what does that mean about me? I mean, he got defensive. How many people collect things, Marc?

OK, it's a fine thing to do. OK, you know, it kind of goes against your, you know, hippy. No, no people.

No, I collect boots. I just like boots. And I know that I have quite a few boots. Make sense.

You seem like a kind of guy who collects boots.

OK, and then and then is like also, you know, oddly, I don't want to say shy about it, but it feels a sense of shape clearly.

Well, I just wanted to know if there was judgment in what you were saying. You know, I understand.

I think you you that's your default. You just go to I'm being judged on, you know, but just get some can I get some milk? Two percent or whole.

Oh, God. What do I say? Two percent. No whole. No, two percent. All right.

All right. But you were judging me when he said that, right?

Yes. Yeah. Hey, I see you got you got the box for me. I got the box and and I was like. Oh, this is you know, he's he's and he seems like the kind of guy who would do this is just sort of randomly send me.

Not necessarily because it's me, but just send a like a present or something that I initially thought, oh, this is going to be something from the 80s that you found that, you know, is personal to the something we had.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly right.

And and I just got back from do I seem like that guy that's going to send you a thing from.

I mean, I think you would. I think you there's that hat. Remember that. Why not. Yeah. If you found something now that you have an assistant, I don't think you'd do it on your own.

I don't think you'd take it and go down to the post office yourself and wait in line.

But if you have an assistant where you can go, Hey, Jenny, you want to here's an address, go send this to my friend Dave.

Frank, you would do that? I have Frank. He's part time. He doesn't live here, doesn't check my emails for me. I was at the post office myself today. I'm not saying that you're being judgmental, but maybe I'm being a little defensive. OK, that's fine.

But but but you acknowledge that I had somebody do that. Yeah. Yeah. You acknowledge that you wouldn't necessarily do it. You'd be more inclined to if you had an assistant, as I would too. If I had an assistant I'd say, yeah.

I mean I would say, Jenny, because I would only hire an assistant named Jenny or somebody willing to answer to Jenny.

Jenny, would you take this down to the post office now? I'm in Brooklyn, so the post office is literally seventy five yards away. It's not a big deal. And if it was raining or inclement weather, I'd say, wait on it. It's just Marc Maron. It's just a hat for Marc Maron. It can wait a day or two till it clears up.

And so I'm saying that you're we're we're we're brothers in that.

Yes. And and that you weren't expecting the mike. So it came in. You didn't know anything about it. You didn't know if it was a gift or anything. Was there no instruction at all? Nothing. You just had to know. So so when you're when you're probably didn't open it up at first.

I just got back I traveled all day with my three and a half year old, just the two of us and, you know, on the plane, getting to getting from the airport with luggage and all this stuff.

Oh, my God, you're flying during this shit storm. I had to I had to go to Atlanta to finish shooting something that's shut down during covid. Right. So in we almost done I was halfway through Episode six, only one more episode after that. And it shut down and it had to come back here and just turn to shit.

And then I had to go back in and, you know, they started up again, very safe. It was very I was nervous, quite nervous.

Let me ask you something about that. So because I've been offered a couple of things here and there, and I'm just sort of like, if I don't have to do it, I'm not doing it. OK, so it was safe, but it was was it any fun at all?

Uh, does the fear ruin the fun? No, it was it was a much different situation than before. You couldn't have a lot of people in one place, right?

Well, you shoot it.

So it was sort of locked in a much different way than it would normally be, blocked your scenes and shot a little bit differently. But the level of we were tested every two days.

Yeah, and you don't walk. Everything was in three zones. Right. So you had people in Zone A zone being Zone C and you couldn't interact with other people. All rehearsals were done with masks and shields. And then you just take them off for the for the actual scene. And obviously, because it's porn, it's like much more intense. There's a lot. Sure. Yeah. Germs flying around.

But, you know, you're able to make do if that's a euphemism.

Yeah. Yeah. And but yeah, it was, it was I was very nervous about everything even flying.

And that was I thought that both airports, LaGuardia and Atlanta were really on top of everything.

The actual flight was was very safe.

I felt I was very, very nervous because we've been so careful here, my family and I and, you know, it was really bad like those those in March, mid-March to mid-April was scary and weird and surreal.

And and I think that's in part why New York rallied like they did because it was so bad. And we just have less of those dumb people. I mean, there's a plenty in like Staten Island and Long Island, right? We don't have those like it's tyranny. I can't breathe, you know, have that. Yeah.

It's not that part of the country. And it's so but yeah. Just to get back to it, it was it was, it was I felt very safe.

Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, this is for the thing that you were playing dual Jerry Wexler. Yeah. So we're doing dueling waxworks. Yes. Pretty cool. It is cool but I like like let me hear your Wexler voice.

You know, it was it was deeper. It was because I got the audio. There wasn't a whole lot of audio. There was a little bit of audio.

Yeah. And he talk like this. Right. But I didn't go to the Bronx.

He was like, you know. Yeah, but you went deeper.

You actually went deeper. I kind of I kept you around here, you know, I talk like this and believe me, I would have preferred to do that.

But that's how we you know, it would be easier, I guess, to do that, because I would always and I mean always by take three, I'd be right back up to that pitch. That's, you know, that's mine. Like more like this. Yeah. Especially if you got something to say. And because he talks pretty quickly. Yeah. And and I would find myself rising up in the direction.

So you did you did a bunch of episodes as WAXHAW. Yes, because I'm just in like we just did the movie. So you did this scene. Where did you do this scene where you yell at the guy who runs the studio? No. Did you have a fight with that guy?

Now, that sounds but the Muscle Shoals. Yeah. Yeah. Rick. Rick, yeah. No, I thought Ted had the fight with him. No, he did. Yeah, the Ted Haggard. And then and then Jerry says something. No, I mean, unfortunately, that sounds like it had been fun. And you see, I didn't have a whole lot of juicy stuff to do in it. Did you have to change your outfit?

How many years what's the span of the N-word went from?

Early mid 60s, like I want to say, 60 to 80 in the last year, 79, right.

Lots of outfits, lots of hair pieces that get thinner and grayer and see, like, I wish I was bald because, like, you know, they like you when they they spent all this money to make a bald wig for me because I had to keep my hair for Gwo.

And I was real nervous about because it was so right. Yeah.

So they went through that whole thing to make me bald, like, like Debra Messing and your movie and but then they do all that and then they put the little bit of hair on me to make me like Waxhaw and look ridiculous. You can't your face can express, you can see there's no way, no matter how good the bald wig is that you're not going to see.

I mean, that just begs the question, why did they hire you?

Because she liked me and she thought we were going to be able to do it this way. But she all kidding. I know. But she she obviously opted to no wig and just fucking deal with my hair. So, like, we there's a little give to that. So it worked out all right. Yeah, it was pretty exciting.

He has a lot of hair until really until the mid mid, early 70s. He has what the era. Where are you doing.

We did the 60s through the it sort of ends at the the concert in the church. Yeah.

That was the second to last episode I shot. Right. And then the the last episode. I'm not in that much. It's really just in the beginning where I tell her I'm leaving Atlantic and then it's like five years later that we catch up. So. Yeah. Oh right.

So when did, when is your waxhaw going to air. Because I think our movie is going to air like January.

Oh I, you know, they were trying to they change it like three or four times. I mean I imagine they'll change it even again.

It was supposed to air I think it was supposed to air in the late summer, early, early fall like like now and then they moved it to they try to they were trying to back into like Thanksgiving thing.

And they were like, there's no way that's going to happen. So I think they're looking at spring of next year. I don't know.

But did you did you like I read the I read his his autobiography, which is written by this guy with this guy Rits, who's kind of an interesting guy himself. But the autobiography was kind of insane. Did you read it? I read parts of it.

The it's to see the footage of that guy and read his his whole story. The fact that he he just doesn't look like the kind of I mean, he was like in pool halls when he was fourteen nights. He doesn't look like that kind of guy at all.

So I think I think the fighting was different and more Jewish. Then there less there's less intensity to the fights back because there was more cowering behind things.

Well, he had just like this profound impact on music. I reading about that guy was like, holy shit.

Oh, it's insane. He I mean, he you know, I'm sure you know this. He coined the the phrase rhythm and blues rhythm. Yeah. That was him.

And also like, you know, his daughter, like there's some sadness to the whole thing. But he was there all the way through the Allman Brothers. He did Capricorn Records and he liked it in dire straits.

He discovered dire straits, crazy and all all these stories about going down in New Orleans to look at talent. And anyways, I thought to be pretty fascinating is the Rick Rubin of his time kind of.

And I'm not that's I'm not trying to be funny. He was very there's a there's a parallel.

You know, there kind of is, except it seems to me. Yeah, I guess so. I guess. Why not? I you know, I tend to romanticize guys. You have to get in their cars to drive. Like, I romanticize a guy who has to he has to get on his phone to make radio stations play the goddamn Aretha Franklin single, you know, like he's working the phones off that whole thing.

Whereas I don't think Rick had to do that. Really.

No. Well, Rick had a probably had pagers and fax machines and he probably had a storm. He was working out of a dorm. Right.

You he was, wasn't he? Yeah. So now that's a place in Brooklyn you've got there where I am now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You live in Brooklyn. I do. I've lived in Brooklyn since two thousand eleven. Really.

Because I just like it. But you've still got the place in the country. I just assume you're off the grid. So you got the house up there and you got to and you've got a house in Brooklyn.

Yeah I got, I had, I got the place upstate. Oh gosh.

Thirteen years ago. Wow. Yeah. And honestly didn't never really imagined that I would be as into it as I was. I you know, not trying to be funny but I discovered some. About myself just now. For somebody who was so social, especially in New York City, and I'd be out all the time and albeit awkwardly, I was awkward, but like I'm really antisocial, I didn't and I'd probably become more antisocial as I've gotten older.

But I mean, I love it up there. And then, you know, I met Amber, who became my wife, and then we had a kid and cetera, et cetera. And it's been the one constant, you know, we have a way to able to back up like that.

So. OK, so you found out that you were sort of antisocial or at least just, you know, better off, not. Well, I guess we all used to force ourselves. I mean, you drinking the beers, you're going out you're hanging out with people running around.

Right. And then but like because I seem to remember. Like, how long has it been since you've been with Amber? We met in early, early 2008 and into February, March 2008, when and it was really quick, I mean, we were once I mean, she was basically moved in in a matter of months, and that was it.

And we never to the Brooklyn Bridge were not in Brooklyn, though. I was in the East Village. In the East Village now. Yeah, I kind of remember you being at that place, but I can't remember really the last time we hang out at all. So it must be a really long time.

But you just struck me. Were you were you were you against marriage or just you didn't see yourself having children? I can't remember which it was.

I was I was never anti marriage. I just never understood the the reason for it. I always thought, you know, if you are going to be with somebody, be with somebody, it's fine.

Yeah. There was I never had any kind of anti marriage stance. I just didn't think it would be for me. I didn't see myself as the kind of person who would be married. I didn't I didn't desire it.

Right.

You know, I basically had that stance until I met somebody that I wanted to marry and that was that. So, you know, and so.

But did she ask you to marry her or do you ask her to marry you?

Other people ask us to marry each other. Oh, that's interesting to hear your input.

Yeah, it was a very it was very we were in the middle of a rom com and we were taking a train Upper West Side. Right. We were having kind of an argument which was, you know, clearly we were covering up this tension between us. And then these people were going like, why don't you just kiss her? You know, it was a very there was an old Chinese guy and a lot of people involved.

Yeah. You know, some very spunky, precocious African-American children.

There were. Wow. An elderly Jewish couple.

So you couldn't leave the house without people just. Oh, as soon as we'd meet, they hung out. They waited for us. And then they were just like, why don't you ask her to marry you, you know?

And and then a Mexican polka band started playing. Yeah. And you got on your knee and. Yeah, yeah.

And then and we sold it to Netflix. And, you know, that's how I used the money to buy this place. And where'd you get what did you do. A big wedding thing.

Yeah, medium size. We did it upstate right along the river. We're over where we live.

I think I kind of remember like two thousand and what. Twelve. Wow. Yeah, we just had our anniversary like two two weeks ago, something like that, because I like her and she's a great writer and a good person.

You both, you know, are like minded.

But now this children thing was that did you ever see yourself doing that? Yeah, for sure you did.

You're not in a proactive way. I just could easily picture having a kid. I wanted a kid, but not in. I mean, I even like would daydream. Like, what if I just adopted by myself and I just wanted a kid in my life?

You did? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what do you think that is? Why did you did you have any sort of like like I'm going to do it differently, I'm going to have a kid and aggressively change the way I am programmed?

That was probably part of it. That was I did have a very real. So there are two parts to this. One is the not actually having a kid or any of the responsibilities, but but fantasizing and daydreaming about how that might be nice and having an understanding that that my life would change in some some ways for the better, in some ways for worse.

But also I think a lot of it was a I was looking for an outside force to change my behavior.

I was so the kid is sort of like a beer replacement.

Well, I mean, you know, you. Yeah.

Like, I was not I wasn't very responsible or healthy or. Right. You know, there were there were several years in the early aughts in the East Village where I just I and look, I was enjoying myself, but I think on on and on in a deeper sense. I was not enjoying myself. And I was there was probably a little bit of shame.

And I remember when people were like I because because we, you know, whatever time we spent together was it was real. And, you know, and I love you. And we had a deep connection over the years. We didn't spend that much time together. But I remember it during that time. There were people concerned about you.

Like I remember there was like people were like he's he's he's running around with the strokes with a fishing tackle box of pills.

All right. Well, I don't know if that's really completely accurate, but I but the idea sure.

That I was I was very yeah.

It was very irresponsible and doing all kinds of things I shouldn't do. And again, I was enjoying myself. But I think on some on some level I was, you know, needing to understanding that I needed to stop doing that.

Did you ever did you get scared for your life?

No. There were certain times where part of the problem is I'm oddly resilient for somebody who's, you know, five foot nine and, you know, a hundred and fifty five pounds. I can really absorb a lot of drugs and alcohol.

Do you remember it? Is your stomach OK? Remember when your stomach hurt all the time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a part of that is changing my lifestyle. Right. And yeah that's that, I mean I'm a I'm definitely a healthier person than I was.

So you wanted to have the kid because you wanted something outside of yourself to make you change your life.

That's a subconscious thing. I think that was not necessarily and I probably would allow myself to realize that occasionally. But I think that was covered up by this other idea sometimes. More. Sometimes I believe it more, and sometimes it wouldn't be right.

You know that I'd be a really good dad and I had a shitty childhood, shitty dad situation, and I almost owe it to the world to raise a decent kid, you know, a lot of bullshit, a lot of white liberal garbage.

Is your dad still alive? Yeah, as far as I know, I'm pretty sure I would find out if he died because I have two cousins that I don't that every five years or so they'll they'll get in touch to say something and we don't. One is I'm on good terms with one. I'm not.

But I thought you were going to say that I would feel a change in the force there.

I mean, he's he's I don't know how much longer he'll live. I mean, he's I think he's like a he's got to be like eighty, eighty three, eighty four, something like that.

I'm not exactly my dad's like 80, I guess my dad's eighty one and I talked to him yesterday and I, you know, I was having some problems with him, but he seems to be losing his mind a bit. And it's getting it's there's a sweetness to it now where he said yes, it was yesterday on the phone. He said, look, I just get worried that someone's going to want to hurt you and you've done very well with your wife.

You live the life you want. And but I don't understand why you're not on the cover of TIME magazine.

Oh, they giveth and taketh away, don't they? Really? It went from good for you. I'm proud of you to like. But you know. Yeah, yeah.

No, yeah. Not on the cover of time. Yeah. We'll just lie to him. Just tell him he got a Nobel or something like that.

He said the weirdest thing yesterday. So I don't understand why there's not more Jews doing things like what he's like. There was a time I think culturally where I think it was we were talking about the virus and he had Jonas Salk in his mind specifically. And it's like, why aren't there more Jews at the forefront of everything?

I'm like, I think there's plenty of Jews working behind the scenes to send him Seth Rogen IMDB page.

You know, I actually tell him and with the caveat that he he has not been on the cover of time either. But.

But you think your dad. Hold on a minute. Uh oh, my God.

Breaking news, Keith Ranieri. The life in prison, good, good, good. That is the most boring documentary I've ever seen in my life, the vow. Oh, my.

Well, it's it's like a lot of those documentaries, specifically the kind of new, you know, 10 part series where, like, terrorists only had to be this only had to be seven.

What kind of fucking person would listen to that guy, tell them to do anything? I mean, like, he can barely get through a piano song. He says he's a genius. He looks like a little hippie turd. He plays volleyball the best.

My favorite thing in the whole whole thing is it's torture. It's like one of the earlier episodes where he describes himself as he says, you know, and I'm I'm paraphrasing this, but it's pretty close.

You know, I'm one of the world's best problem solvers. I'm actually considered the third best problem solver in the world.

Like there's a ranking of something is Vega's problem solving. And somehow he is ranked third in the in the world. Society has deemed him Cambridge University because he thought that there had been he thought that would be more believable.

But don't you just look at that guy. Wouldn't he be like one of the guys?

We're like, if we were ontology, it's all the same. I get it. But look at that guy, though.

If you and I back in the day, we're going to go play softball with some fellas. He would be the guy. I'd be like, yeah, I just got him come.

You know, would he's not he's no charisma. There's no leadership. It's like he's like the annoying guy that hangs around.

How does. Absolutely.

Yeah, he is the annoying guy at the periphery of your group of friends.

Right. A bar. Right. When you're starting to talk about something that's starting to get deep.

Right.

And he chimes in and you're like, wait, wait, wait. Backup like that doesn't make sense. Like everything he said when he's talking to people. My reaction, you know, and granted, I'm sitting in my living room with the with hindsight being, but I would never be in that situation to begin. Exactly. But everything he says and people are nodding along to it, you're like, well, that doesn't make any sense.

And you. And you know me. And I know you. And you, right. You, me, our friends, 90 percent of them would stop the conversation. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.

That doesn't make any sense. Explain that. No, no, no.

What you just said, aren't you glad we're not that fucking lost or that fucking craving of that type of sense?

But I imagine. But getting back to you, to your old man and to your like. So so you have this sort of my brother had the same thing with the kids.

He's like, I'm going to do it differently. But it seems to me that, like, everything changed and I know this because I have friends who have kids and I'm now I've gotten to this weird age where I want to hear more about their kids than them.

And, you know, I get very attached to their kids. I'm not really particularly sorry that I don't have children, but I.

I do I do imagine that whatever happened, so did it was it a discussion with you, too, or did she just be was she just like, I'm pregnant?

So and I feel like I can speak to this because she wrote about it in her in her second in her second last book. Yeah. Fucking thrown under the bus, dude. Go ahead.

I'm not throwing around. You talked about this. Is she she you know, she asked me if she, you know, because so we did get pregnant and this would have been in 2012.

Well, I want to say 13, maybe 12 or 13 and. She wanted to get an abortion and I did not want that, and I was really bummed and it was very if you read and if you read her book of essays, it'll it's all in there. But because you're right.

Because you're like, well, how well, how old were you? You're already, what, forty five fifty. Dude, I was I would have been yaf late forties.

I would have been one of my 50s. You're fifty six now. Forty eight. Yeah. So that would mean.

Is that right. No. No. Forty nine. And how old the kid. The the other side, a three and a half, so B, for an answer, you're like in your 50s. Yeah, no, I'm not. Well, no, this is I'm talking about the first one where she had an abortion, it would have been I'm just I'm not good at the math here. No, she didn't abort our current child. No, I know.

Yeah, you shouldn't do that. Yeah, I.

I don't know. I didn't know we were telling an abortion story. I thought this was the fight that produced the first child. This was a different fight.

Well, it wasn't a fight discussion. Discussion. Yeah. She got pregnant when we weren't really trying for a baby, but we were OK with the idea I guess. And you weren't married yet? We were married. Oh, OK. We're married.

Oh, interesting. Right. And we probably just got married.

And so that was a an issue and.

You know, we I supported her. Ultimately, it's like, you know, it's her body decision, I'm not going to force her that I can't do that. I wouldn't do that. And it wasn't without a lot of discussion. And I understood why I understood her reason, but I just wasn't happy with it.

And and so that happened. And that was a thing that we had in our lives that was now permanently and forever moving forward, going to be a part of our history and relationship.

And then we did a couple of years later, we yes, we're going to have a baby.

Well, let me ask you something, though. Like in that, like, you know, just just because of the nature of who we are politically and who we are as comics and everything else now. After that decision, you know, which she wanted have the abortion and you were against it because you wanted to have the child, it, I imagine the discussion of that hangs over you.

But you don't you don't think you you don't think about that child necessarily, do you?

Only in an abstract sense. Right. Because I did when she was pregnant and I did. And I especially thought about it when we were upstate because I just had this. When I go in the woods, I go for a walk with my dog or just go just walk in the woods. And I would.

You know, imagine having, like a five year old holding a five year old's hand and pointing things out and all all that kind of bright romantic father imagery and especially upstate.

Yeah. And. So I mean, I did in that sense, and it was also, you know, going back to what we were talking about earlier, was this like, I'm ready to do this, I'm ready in a in a self-centered way like me, I'm ready to do this. And she wasn't. And, you know, we came to that understanding, but that's what a lot of it was about.

What ninety nine percent of it was about was I'm ready. I want this wasn't significantly younger, you know.

Sure. So that was part of it. And and then we got pregnant. She was ready. So and now we're happy to do that. And now you got one.

Yeah. And she's awesome. I'm ready to have three and a half year.

So you were fifty three or so. Fifty two. When did you turn. Fifty six. April. OK, yeah.

You're like I don't know, I just turned fifty seven in September. We're close. I'm fifty six and a half.

OK, but I really want to use this your podcast as a platform to try to encourage older people to start saying and a half.

I think I'd like to see people on, on a on the floor of Congress going. Now listen here. I'm sixty eight and a half years old.

I am fifty seven and two months, I think almost so.

So like I can't imagine it, but it must be like but there's so many things in your life that you had resolved on some level. You know, you got money saved, you got a good marriage and now you're at this age because that makes me nervous, you know, because people are always like, you can have kids whenever you're a dude, but, you know, you got you want to be part of it.

And I think you got in just under the wire.

I think I think you're right. And I really am concerned about if we did have another one, like my energy level, I've always had a pretty good, you know, a reserve of energy. And I'm pretty healthy. Yeah, athletic. But I like the idea of having another kid running around and having to run down the street while they're on a scooter.

I mean, I literally, especially in Brooklyn, like running like stop is hauling ass constantly.

And people are because you're Dave Cross, there's always someone across the street laughing.

Yeah. And I'll stop I'll let her go into traffic just for a bit and I'll sign some autographs. She's got she has to learn. She has to learn. Quick cameo here.

The the idea of like doing that again in three years from now, three and a half years, like forget it.

Well do you think. Well, yeah, of course. But do you think like. Like this this idea of like learning that you didn't you weren't as social as you thought you were, that you would rather not be hanging around with people as much, do you think that you know, the connection or whatever, however, the kid opened your heart that kind of made you realize your priorities and got you more sort of in touch with yourself?

Yeah, for sure. And I you know, to every you know, all the cliches are true. It's it's there's so trite and they're trite for a reason and they're they're wonderful. But the cliches are all true. And I am now I'm aware of my language. I'm aware of my attitude, the energy I give up, I'm aware of.

So what you don't say what you don't say fuck. But do you still say Konta or no? Yeah.

Yeah, I say cunt in place of fuck. Not good for you and yeah.

Yeah. And she goes, you know what. What is that. What is cunt. And and I keep saying what. Yeah.

I can't hear you that I can't hear you. It's really fun.

Yeah. We have a lot of fun. It sounds fun but just morality. And I think about morality in a I'm just more conscious of it. Like what do you mean.

Well what are the lessons that I'm teaching. All right. Good and bad. What is right and behavior and how I act and things like that. And and and I try not to get to show my frustration with something is as readily as I normally would.

Don't scare her with the with the weird outbursts of anger I got. Damn it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your crankiness has subsided a bit.

I hope so. And I do hope so. I do hope so. And I don't know if it has. And I and the last seven months have been brutal. The the you know, the fact that one great thing about Ambanis relationship was, you know, we're both in the business.

So we both understood when, hey, somebody's got to go away for two weeks to ten days or whatever it is.

And we check in and we travel with each other a lot, but sometimes you just can't. And it's and it's a relationship saver, you know, to have that built in. Oh, I get to be by myself and same with her. She gets she doesn't have to listen to me and and I'm not the easiest guy to to live with.

And so are you about to tell us that she's walked in a room or.

I blocked her in the room. She's in the basement. I'm only telling you that because I want you to know that I have a basement.

That's pretty cool, right, in Brooklyn. Yeah. Yeah.

So now she's in Toronto, actually, right now she's shooting something too. Yeah. Yeah.

God, everyone's going back to when I was with that's why I was with the kid in Atlanta. I had to bring her down to Atlanta with me and I was with her because Amber had to go. They have a very, very, very strict she's in Canada, very strict quarantine regimen. And they will track you and they will, you know, find you heavily and kick you out. So, you know, they're not fucking around because they know how bad it is to get a movie or TV show, TV show effects.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's I guess they're recasting glow and reshooting it.

Wait a minute. I'm supposed to be fucking bad. I'm sorry to hear about that man. I truly am. That was you're so, so fucking wonderful in that. Oh thanks buddy. I really, really impressive.

I just I yeah. I mean, I mean it's just one of those things, you know, there's nothing you have no power in that thing, you know what I mean.

I get it. I mean the cast is so big. How are you going to how are you going to work around that and when is it going to be OK to shoot like that? There's just I don't I really do think it was about that. I don't think, you know, there was just no way to do that safely and no no way to see when that could happen.

Well, it's it's again, I was nervous about, you know, going back, going back to work. And there are ways to do it, you know. Yeah.

If you really lock it down, perhaps you have to bubble. Yeah. Much like NBA and. Right. And they did that successfully. I don't know how you get around that, especially for something like your show where you've got that.

Yeah. I don't know, close contact and everything. I got choreography.

I just like to me it's like so much about doing what we do and I'm not a big I don't know how to have fun generally, but but just that the idea of having the exchange of ideas and being able to socialize on set and all that stuff, like all that stuff being removed and you just kind of render it down to like, all right. All right, ready. Masks off. We're doing it. Yeah, I got masks on.

It's just like to me. Sounds terrible. Yeah, you're right.

You're you're you're right.

And but I mean, work is work. I get it. But I, you know, I just I save some money, so I'm not panicking about that. But but it just doesn't sound fun and there's also this idea, it's like, are we going to put our lives on the line to create entertainment product? Isn't that part of the fucking problem?

But I don't know. I don't know. I'm with you on all of that.

Yeah. And as much as I am anything else, I'm also a writer.

And I there have been so many ideas. I, I've thought like, oh, this would be a cool idea to explore and to try to write and to develop for standup, maybe not for standard for TV series.

OK. OK.

And then you know I think about it like in practical terms, like how would I shoot that.

This isn't a good idea. This would take I couldn't do that.

And then and I try to, you know, telescope everything down to its minimum or do I do I need to shoot this in New York?

Can this be shot with just four people in a room?

Like can we green screen all of this?

Can we can we cut and paste people in it changes your approach or at least changes my approach to how I because I'm always with with the stuff that I develop. It's usually about story. I want this kind of story to be told. And it and it's and I it just is not conducive to to. Working under covid conditions. Yeah, I mean, lately, like, I'm I'm just trying to look, you know, I outside of the wash that I experienced and outside of the we're all in this sort of like horrendous grief zone around the world, you know, and the covid and everything else.

But like I it's made me reassess fuckin everything. You know, it's very weird to see show business in its raw form like this, that these people that have these shows, these nightly shows who are under contract have to do this work. It's a great leveler. It's like everybody's doing their goddamn, you know, network television shows from their couches. And and on some level it's OK, but it does strip everything bare. And you start to realize, like we really are song and dance people.

And without the song and dance, we're just people sitting on couches. It's OK.

But it's kind of like I mean, you that's that's you kind of. You know, ended up, I don't want to say stumbled into it, but you ended up in the the greatest covid gig you could possibly.

It's great to not complaining.

And, you know, and we make a living off it and like but now I've got to just work stand up material because, like, the weird thing is, Dave and I don't know about you, but I'll admit it to you. I don't fucking miss stand up at all.

And I don't know why, you know, because I've done it my entire life.

And I'm surprised to hear you say that. I'm very surprised.

Well, I mean, you it's like one of those things where I think I get I miss working through stuff. Do you know what I mean? But like, you get into the habit, like, you know, for me, like I'm going to go Doucet's every three or four times a week no matter what. So I've never not done sets. But, you know, even if I didn't have anything, I'll go. I'll make myself do it.

But there was something about just the time and the space and the loss and the covid and everything else where it kind of forced me to reckon with myself and see where I'm at.

And I'm pretty comfortable like I could. I feel like I could. I'm OK doing nothing.

Did you did you prior to all this, did you have that kind of, you know, innate need to do stand up that that that stand ups talk about that?

Like, I don't know, man. I just got to get up there.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure that I did. I did. But not it wasn't to entertain people. It was a personal thing. And like because I dropped that last special right at the beginning of lockdown, like, I don't know that I'm going to get much better than that special. Like that special is good. Right.

So and now like but here's where I was going to say is that something's happening because I've started doing these live Instagram's every morning and I'll do like I'll do like over an hour, sometimes two. I can go anywhere from five hundred to twelve hundred thirteen hundred people, but thousands of people come watch it. But it's reengaging that part of me that thinks on my feet because you do the same thing. I got to talk through my shit.

So, so but I don't I that's this whole performing in a vacuum thing. I do not, I don't, I'm not comfortable with it. I don't it's it makes me self-conscious. No, I don't like it.

I don't like I'm not waiting for laughs but I do like thinking out loud and am ok.

But I want to go back to something you said before. People are you know, they are like, I've got to get up on stage and I just want to entertain people. And I always found that to be such bullshit.

I don't have and I don't think most people do. I think there I know plenty. People say it. A lot of people. It's like this altruistic thing that that's what they're what's driving them to the stage. And and it's bullshit. It's a selfish not that this is the end result is bad. It's still a good thing.

The reason I do it is basically to you guys will sit around and listen to me, because this is how I know I exist and this is how I think. Enjoy, enjoy.

Yeah. I think that's how it is for most people, that thing. And so many people do that. Like, I just I mean, I've got this need. I've got to get up there and entertain people.

I've got to make them laugh like, fuck you, you're so full of shit. I need you to see me and hear what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah.

But do you miss it? I do. I do a lot. And I, and I, I did towards I think in part because it was combined with not working at all. I finished this one project I was developing. I got to to where I was kind of contractually obligated to finish finish that. It didn't seem like it had all this kind of excitement behind it moved on. And then I, I had nothing. I was not doing anything.

And I was trying to force myself to write. And I really miss stand up. And I was in the kind of what I what I like to call the end of I had like three phases to what I'm developing stuff at least the last two specials and tours I did where I just developed stuff out and I watch one.

That's when I reached out to you.

Right, because it like it made me feel nostalgic when it was the one with the big colonic closure. Which one was that? Was that the last one? The colonic?

No, I think that was that was the that before.

That was the one before that was make America great again. Maybe that's the one in and that was in a theatre or a rock club I think.

Or the theatre. Yeah. Yeah.

That was make America great again that I'm pretty sure it's just so funny because I had this moment where that's when I reached out to you because I'm watching and there's like because we go back to such a developmental time for both of us or something so familiar that I hadn't seen in a long time, but had that ran pretty deep in me, you know, like just just watching you do stand up and sort of move through your stuff. And like, I remember this.

And you do it, there was moments in there where I'm like, he's doing this just the first time right now. No, that was all true.

That was like every every word of that was already set.

Well, pretty much, yeah. I mean, I was I, I mean, I would I always riff within stuff, but write that story.

It was one of those is one of the handful of things I've done where I can as I'm doing it, I can remember it, even though it was a long time ago with Amber when we were basically first dating where I just remember I can remember it visually right now. I remember the fucking place on Santa Monica Boulevard who doesn't remember their first colonic.

I mean, that's why it's and to this day only König me to Tom. Agnese sent me to his guy in New York. It was this little African dude.

And he had all these pictures when you while you're waiting in the lobby and he had these pictures of tribal peoples with these long things that could come out of their asses because of what they eat, like they like literally these show the tapeworms and stuff.

No, they were like I said to the guy said, what does that a shit snake? And he laughed and laughed and he thought that was the greatest what thing to call it a shit snake.

Oh, he was patronising you. There's no way he had heard the terms shit snake ever before. Come on.

Really, I don't know. Hey, I got a genuine laugh. It seemed like a real life. There was no reason for him to fake it.

I already I already have my appointment, but but, you know, it was just like, very disturbing. No, they weren't.

It wasn't a parasite thing was literally I think these people were eating tree bark or something.

And it was just that was his way of saying, like, you don't want this to happen.

I'm like, dude, that's not going to fucking happen.

And are these, like, big, glossy, beautiful kind of motivational poster type prints that know they were like those they were almost like from a like a medical journal of some kind, you know, where they show the picture of the people, like in the tribe, and then they'd show these horrendous animals.

I understand this correctly that these were these were on his wall as. Yes. As like welcome.

Just to make yourself. I want to go there. Yeah, it's here in New York. Yeah. Ask do you still talk to Agatha by any chance?

Where is the last time you talked to him and does he live on the moon or in Thailand or someplace in moon Thailand.

I don't know where. I don't know. I don't know where people go. I don't know. Are you in touch with anybody? You.

I mean, not not really. It's weird, right? Yeah. Become very antisocial.

I know, but you got the kid. That's great. But anyways, what what were you doing. Where were we going. Oh about about improvising and missing. Stand up.

So I was I was developing some more material and I was I kind of do it in three phases where I just sort of take a tape recorder and just go to, you know, or go to some place in Brooklyn. And I talk for an hour and then I tape. And what works I keep and. Right, sure.

And as opposed to like going to clubs and doing 12 minute sets and stuff like that, I mean, I just do an hour and I tell people it's going to suffer a little bit.

That's what I do too. I just get a space and just go, yeah, do an hour or two hours, figure it out.

And then, you know, phase two is like, OK, I think I know I'm getting close and now I can sort of try. I'm not going to stick around anymore. Here's what I'm going to work on. Right. Work on that. That's an hour and fifteen. And you always things always inflate.

And then phase three being like the much the phase three for me is the week before where it's sort of like for me it's like a month where I'm trying to sequence things.

I always end up like, you know, I've got the callbacks, I know what's going on, but it's still like it's still an hour and 20 or it's an hour and 30. And I know like I want to get this down to seventy five. And that was exactly. Yeah. That last week where you break it, you outline, it's literally like you see what you want to do and you like this doesn't fit.

No, no, no. And then there you go.

And not being so self-indulgent. Precious about that. I love that. Right. You know, people aren't thinking and look, if you give it, you know, four or five, six, seven tries and you're not getting it, then just ditch it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And move on.

Well, no, it's just great. It was great seeing it and made me feel like. Do you remember the name of that? You know that there a couple of things I wanted to bring up. You remember inner beauty, hot sauce. The Caribbean hot sauce it had, it was almost like it had a papaya, a mango and habanero, that's vaguely familiar. Yeah, I feel like it was from our past inner beauty. It was a beauty.

I do. Wait, what is that from? I don't think we ate it. I think we had a bottle of it, but they didn't make it for a long time. But they're making it again, that's all. I just want to tell you that. And the other thing is it was a really hot habanero hot sauce.

And I feel like this stuff at the Yucatan, the Yucca hut on Franklin. No, no, this stuff, it's similar inner beauty was about you could buy it.

And I feel like somehow or another the hot sauce, difficult food era was somehow tied to Bob Wilson's apartment for me always. So, yeah, sure.

But here's the question I want to ask. What was the name of that? Some place that we used to get those subs en masse.

And remember, they had like the oh, the I did have a number in it, like the five seven five.

There was the meat bomb, right. Berlanti the meat bomb. And it was literally every it was everything they had. Right. And cheese right around the corner from the Middle East, right around the corner from the right around the corner from the back. It was right around the corner from Bob's.

We could walk there from Bob's on Marcella's, what was it called, five star or something.

Oh, that sounds right. Yeah, something like Dunhams.

And it was right either by Tietz to the Bears or Middle East. And I mean, that's all deaneries. Yeah, dramatically.

But but we had that meat sandwich. We get like four or five meats on there.

Yeah. And cheese and onions was crazy. It was like sausage, meatball, cheese steak. I think everything they had, they just dumped it on the you know, and it was when you're poor and drunk and and then.

Oh man. And I just remember you the next day, hold in your stomach bent over stop. Always, always holding your stomach and bent over.

But you're better now so not a lot better. Yeah but now.

OK, so tell me about all these hackneyed things about having a kid though. Like what does he seem like to do you do you tear up, do you get overwhelmed with feeling what happens?

Well, it's it's the highs are so high and the lows are just just suck, you know, and we've been very lucky she's she's healthy and hasn't exhibited at this point any kind of real mental or learning deficiencies. And she's, for the most part, a happy, fun kid. Funny.

There's a lot of time we're imbursement here, you know, and she's she's out of town.

And she had a whole run for like six or seven months where she was doing all kinds of things, either promoting her stuff or some writing that had come out or doing stuff for feminist causes or political people, politicians or whatever, and she'd be gone for four or five days or whatever. And and. It's just it's the most exhausting thing like. Being with a kid sunup to sundown when they're it's mostly it's great, but it can be really, really just you're just wiped out by the end of the day, wiped the.

You don't have any help over there. I do, but like when I was in Georgia, you know, Georgia didn't, but Nancy has her own schedule and her issues, too, and has her own life and sometimes can't just can't be here and Benadryl and bring it back, which will be in early November. Yes. Just like but that that's it's been like that since she was a kid, really.

I've been with her pretty much outside of 12 days where I went to Europe on the last tour and made a made a talk about a lesson learned a tremendous mistake in that I was I was so nervous and depressed and upset that I was going to go away from her. I'd never been away from her for more than, like a day and a half at that point, maybe two days tops, and. And I I designed my trip to Europe, and I didn't do half the shows that I did on the last tour.

Oh, come on. Yeah, I didn't do half those right. I only did 12 days. And I went and I flew in RedEye to Manchester, did a show that night as fuck and out of it and jet lagged crazy. And then my last show was in Amsterdam and went had like a six a.m. pick up to go to the airport to fly from Amsterdam to Manchester, back to New York. Yeah. Just so I could cut out whatever it is, a cumulative 14 hours off of the itinerary so I could not be away from her for so long.

And I walked in and she didn't give a fuck, man.

She just I was like, I got my suitcase. Hey. And my dog's all excited. And like Mila, she's she's got her back to me. She's looking at the TV on the couch.

Hello, Talita. Hello. Hello. And she just kind of turned around and looked at me, didn't say a word and went back to watching TV.

And so I will never, ever make that mistake again. Wow.

And that's when you said to Amber, what the fuck is her problem? She Amber wasn't there, just the nanny. So yeah. But yeah, I had twelve days there. And then I did this movie, The Dark Divide. Are we supposed to talk about that.

I watched, I watched the whole movie.

I'm just some dude. I think that the sandwich place had the word high in it like high high high something.

Phi Phi Phi Phi Phi Phi Pizza High five pizza pie pizza. Yeah, that's it.

High pizza. Oh thank God. Oh good. All right. So. Pizza had very it had really quality fidelity. Yeah, but the sandwiches were where it was that it was a great sounding pizza. Yeah, awesome.

But yeah, I watched a movie, man, and I was very proud of you. You seem to like, you know, I thought like, well, this is a changing man he's accessing. You know, it was like, you know, it was like a deeper dive into a character, I think, than you usually do.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And like, I was moving and it was it was a painful story, but also a beautiful. Well, thank you.

Yeah, it was it was it was, you know, cool to do, wasn't fun to do know to be outdoors in Washington, dude, it was like the lowest budget, most grueling. I mean, a lot of those scrapes and bruises were all real.

And did you get to spend time with the real guy? Yeah, yeah, Robert Pyle, some guy is a butterfly guy, and, you know, it's it's it's not it takes from a couple of his books.

Right. And there are some liberties taken with the story. But, you know, it's 90 percent of it is all, you know.

So basically the idea is that, like his wife, he he nursed until she died of cancer and he'd always won. Yeah.

But he was really kind of as sweet and nice and kind of killer as he is in real life. He's very, you know, shy and and and he.

Isn't very proactive, and his wife is extremely extroverted, he's introverted, she's extroverted, and and she was really the one who was holding, in a way, holding his life together, and he wouldn't have done anything without her pushing him to do.

And so that's like her dying thing to him is is applying.

For him, for the Guggenheim grant to go find this, these species that have never been able to go into this place, it's it's one of the last wild bits of the lower 48 states and it's one of the last stretches that is very, you know, still very wild. Still. Still. Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, you can hike it.

It's just there's no amenities. There's no rhino.

Is that how you guys had to shoot it? Basically, yeah.

With a skeleton crew, a lot of where we were, there was no there's no cell service, no electricity.

And you couldn't access a lot of the parts, anything around those like the lava tubes, you know, a lot of that stuff. And people got hurt. You know, there were some, you know, albeit relatively minor, but there were a number of people who had to get some help.

But you're out there also. There was a mountain lion that was like stalking. It was fucking nuts. And and there was no, like, changing trailer.

There was no craft services out there.

He had to hike everything in their equipment and everything and then shoot. And if it if you see it's raining, that's because it rained. And those those that weather changes like that, I mean, it just changed.

My God, how long was this shoot?

I think it was I want to say fine, I must say for weeks and the first week was in Portland, so it was three weeks out in the now when it's like Apocalypse Now, but not all of it.

Not I mean, the stuff when you see like when it's kind of nice out and there's like the the the we're on top of the ridge like that wasn't that wasn't scary or weird, but a lot of the stuff in the interior was really hairy and not not fun. I mean, it was and there's again, like there's no trailers, nowhere to get.

So this was there was this director like he was like just like this was his vision. This was he was willing to commit this insanity to it.

Yeah. He he grew up in Portland and went to a lot of these places as a kid and he can't remember how he came to know Robert Pyles work, but he did. And then he kind of devoured all of his work. Now he's a he's an accomplished writer. He wasn't at the time that the movie takes place in ninety five I think.

But he's by training a butterfly guy. Yeah, he's a lepidopterist. Yeah. That's his thing. And, and now he's, he's a lot more than that. But that's what he was when, when this journey goes on this journey and this thing happened to him and. Yeah. So this, this guy got to know him, he got the rights to it. And I think it's it's it was about ten years that he, you know, was trying to get this thing made.

But the impetus of it was that, you know, his wife had wanted him to do this and he didn't. He kept saying he was going to do it and we're going to do it. I'll I'll do it. I'm going to yeah, definitely. Next it when it warms up and then it would warm up. I'm going to wait a little bit till it's because I'm not really ready right now, but I will be. And he was always putting it off and then she dies.

And she had applied for the grant knowing she was dying. She only had a matter of weeks left and he gets accepted and has to go. She's already dead. So he's like now he's got to do it.

And through that process, I mean, like, how did you approach it differently?

Because it feels to me it felt to me like this was something, you know, that you couldn't you know, you couldn't just goof through. You couldn't just make a caricature and do it right. So, like, it has to be there has to be some relationship between you coming to terms with yourself that enabled you to do this emotionally with this guy.

Well, to to bring it all back around to where one of the things we were first starting and talk about, it's it's really about embracing that what I came to see myself as is antisocial and not.

It it spoke to that part of me and and.

I could never do what this guy did. I mean, not in a million years and I know everybody says, well, you could if you had to, I wouldn't. I'd be dead. I'd be dead. I would quicken the death. Right.

I mean, I just couldn't do I couldn't survive it. So it was one hundred and twenty eight miles.

I think you just went out by yourself with very little went up by himself. He was in way over his head, didn't know what the fuck he was doing. Right.

And I, I just it was like embracing the.

Letting all those other facades fall away and go, all right, this is who I am, I've got to do this right.

I'm going to do it because he has a couple there's a couple of moments where he could have bailed, right. Didn't. And he does it for her. And he knows he knows deep down that he will change for the better. He knows it's hard and he knows that she was the better person in that sense. And, you know, he's got her kind of memory and spirit there with him guiding him. And, you know, just and we do it in the movie.

And it's and it was really happened to to Robert, the real guy. But he thought he thought he was in there for, like, I can't hear what it was. He thought he was in there for like twenty eight days and he was in there for almost 40. He had just completely lost track, really everything. Yeah.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but we had a scene that we eventually took out where he puts on his he's leaving and he sees people on the dashboards of cars like the name a phone number to get in touch with a relative when he's expected back or that person, he or she is expected back and he goes, oh, and he puts his he writes it on like a piece of paper and he puts it on the dashboard.

He's off by weeks.

Yeah, I thought that was in the movie. When he comes back to the car and realizes how long he's been gone or.

No, maybe it was I don't know. I've never seen it. So you'll have to tell me. Oh, yeah, I think so. Well, you don't want to see. I've seen it one hundred and fifty times, so it's just it's not it's an ADR and I know I don't remember, but yeah, it was I don't think like I think you keep saying you're antisocial.

I think you're just more comfortable with yourself.

Oh, wow.

I think when you go running around and you've got to it's like that thing you're saying, you're looking for something outside of yourself, whatever it is, you know, to kind of make yourself feel better. And I think you just probably just just kind of more comfortable with yourself if you're lucky. That happens when we get older. You know, a lot of things don't matter.

I never thought about it that way. But that's that's interesting. And I will I will give that some thought. Maybe that's that's interesting.

OK, well, do whatever you have to do with it. I'm going to take off and actually I do kind of have to run. No, no, it's good.

It's good. It's fine. But the movie was good and it's great to see you. And I thought you worked well with Debra Messing and I thought the journey was good and the Bigfoot thing was my spoiling it.

No, I mean, that's I think they did a really good job of handling that.

Not ridiculous. Yeah, it's not ridiculous.

I mean, that was a big eye every step of the way. I was like, you guys can't show big, but you can't do this. You can't do that. I mean, it has to be just sit in the beds and.

Yeah, the the the thing at the very end, I don't want to give it away, but, you know, the literally the very end.

Right. Happened but not quite in that way. But that did happen. Yeah. And he did come upon a print. OK, yeah. And and I know this guy is a he's a scientist.

You know, it was a really difficult and people you know, when they're interview me about the movie, like, do you believe in Bigfoot?

And I do not I don't believe in it, but I do believe in the ability for for mankind to invent things. And but I thought what he he says something in his book. He writes about how there's every reason to think that a Bigfoot could exist and has the wherewithal to not make himself known right. In that part of the country.

I guess that becomes clearer to you when you're out in it, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And it's and have you been to, like, central Oregon?

I haven't spent time there. Now it's one of the most fucked up. I grew up in the south. Yeah. And it's one of the most fucked up. I mean, it's it's weird in a way I have not experienced.

What you mean like like people wise. Kinda not that they're scary, but just they're they're very it's almost twins, twin twins, right, in that like it's a it's a culture that is onto them and they're very suspicious people. It's it's weird.

I haven't felt that kind of vibe since I've been in the Deep South. Like in Appalachia. Right. Right. Appalachia, yeah.

There's there's a hill. People all over the place.

But I'm telling you, man, maybe just because I'm used to the south and right when you go, especially in the upstate New York's got to do not like this man may not like this.

All right. OK. All right. Maine, maybe. Maybe Maine. I haven't been to, like, super rural Maine. And I think it's kind of a similar, you know, just a suspicion and and not a friend about the friendliest vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's what you can imagine a lot of Kuhnen. Sure.

Sure. Stuff the kind of like saying, hi, how are you doing. Just passing through. Yeah.

I guess I am now. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a it's a trip man. All right.

Well it was I enjoyed watching the movie and I like the movie and you know, you did a good job. Well, thanks, man.

And it's it's truly great to see you and your success and your how you've been able to branch out as well and do that stuff. Thanks, man, as well. Which is which is an opportunity we don't we haven't often gotten to do so. No, sir. No.

Yeah. And I'm excited. Yeah. It's great talking to you. Great seeing you. I love you man. And you as well, man. Take care. All right. David Cross. He felt that that ending was abrupt. I guess it was, but I do that sometimes. Don't know. We were done. He felt done. I kind of felt like it was done. You can go to Dark Divide film Dotcom to get the virtual send the links for the movie The Dark Divide that Dave and I just talked about.

And don't forget the new Showtime comedy series Moon Base eight, starring Fred Armisen, Tim Heidecker and John C. Reilly. Three subpar astronauts are stationed at NASA's Moon Base Simulator in Winslow, Arizona, trying to qualify for their first trip to the moon. With sky high optimism and social capabilities, they're determined to prove they've got the right stuff. New episodes every Sunday Moon Base eight premieres November 8th, only on Showtime. Don't have Showtime. Go to Showtime, Dotcom, and start your 30 day free trial now, OK?

Oh my God. Good luck, everybody. Good luck. I'll be back on the Instagram lives probably Thursday and that the t shirts, the Maroon two shirts are selling like hotcakes. It's a good shirt. You can go to pod swag dotcom or go to pod dotcom, click the button. I think it's one of the better shirts we've done. I don't even know why. I just got it. It's got a vibe. It's got a nice the nice teal colored whatever guitar.

I want a little guitar. All right. OK, here we go. Good luck. Oh my God.

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