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Lock the gate. All right, let's do this, how are you, what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck? Next, what's happening? We all know what's happening. I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. That was my citizens app. Oh, I guess the world is ending, is it?


Did you guys get that on yours? It just came up, world is ending. Nowhere to go, nowhere to hide, huh? I guess that's that's it. I knew I would be notified on my citizens app. So. The king. Chaos pig. Provoked and gave orders. For an insurrection. Aku. To a hodgepodge bunch of radicalized hate nerds and gamers. Gun dorks. Bullshit zealots. Cost players of the fascist ilk. Oh, yes, and Christians.


This is where it was going. This was the parade he always wanted. It's ongoing as I'm doing this, because, you know, I do this the day before, who the fuck knows what happened overnight? I'm recording this. Late afternoon on Wednesday, I'm not a news operation. I can't wait till tomorrow, but it's pretty clear what's happened and it's pretty clear. You know. That we have.


A fairly large contingent of anti-American, fascistic people in this country who are politically naive and utterly misinformed and excited to believe whatever bullshit honors their self victimized state.


But I mean, there's no I mean, I can't. What am I going to say here? I don't have any explanations. I knew this mother fucker wouldn't leave.


I knew he wouldn't leave easily.


And I knew that he would break the fucking country and the world before he left. I'm not saying that's good to know that. I've just been talking about it for months. But I got no explanation, all the explanations are out there. This was going to happen, this is a. Hodgepodge, but not without momentum, fascistic movement. Then our country with a lot of followers and with a leader, our soon to be former president. And they're willing to take instructions.


To overthrow the capital, the United States, by the president who will soon be. No longer president, but still the leader of an American fascist movement.


That's what's happening. There's no other way to look at it, but the radicalization of the army of unfordable hate nerds, the gamers, the disenfranchised young men, mostly as an ongoing militia groups have been around for a long time. Christian evangelical fascists have been along around for a long time, the sort of amalgamation of many of them under the banner of Kuhnen, which is an ever evolving spigot of bullshit connecting the dots of history and to something that.


Excites and angers and drives. The disenfranchised, the racists, the angry. So now what happens, I don't fucking know, I guess we'll see tomorrow. It's like today would have been a nice day to be like, congratulations, congratulations. Congratulations. To Raphael Warnock and John USCIRF for being elected. Senators. Of Georgia. An African-American pastor and a Jew. Are now the senators representing the state of Georgia. Now, that's a nice arc. A nice repairing dating back to the civil rights movement.


That sort of. Really kind of legitimizes and lands that journey in a way, of these two people in these two backgrounds. And it's also an amazing. Step in the correct direction. Politically and on a human level. This would be the day for that congratulations, but no. How can we get people who want to believe in fantasy that drives them? To violence, to racism, to anti-Semitism, to misogyny, to perhaps murder, to try to overtake the government, to take the capital and stop the Congress from doing its Democratic work, the work of the people.


How can we get the information correct once the brains are broken, when there's no barometer of truth and when just the desire, the frenzy to believe becomes more important than what is being believed? It's been around since the beginning of people. Why is it raining? Why is my house on fire? Why did my wife die? Why did my husband die? Why is there so much pain and trouble in the world? God, explain it, make it better.


God, who did this, what bigger force than me? People want to believe in things bigger than themselves and things that are fantastical in order to feel connected to something or to explain something. So once that valve or that portal or that gear in the brain is busted wide open and filled with fucking fascistic crap.


What do you do? You storm the Capitol. Well, one of those of us who know the truth do. Be scared. And I hope there's more of us. Everyone wants to keep their home and family safe, though, right, am I right on the basic level? Whether it's from a break in a fire, flooding or a medical emergency, simply safe home security delivers award winning 24/7 protection with simply safe. You don't just get an arsenal of cameras and sensors.


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I did not mention today on the show I talked to Steven Lee Bruner. Not ring a bell. How about Thundercat? That's what he goes by, he's a bass player, singer songwriter. He's worked a lot with Kendrick Lamar specifically on to Pimp a Butterfly and has four solo records out.


Great, amazing, transcendent musician. The most recent record is called It Is What It Is, and that is nominated for a Grammy.


And I talked to him today. Man, I wish people had something, the plague thing, too, is bearing down certainly on us here in L.A. and on us everywhere. My mother got shot one of the vaccine, I guess she waited a couple of hours and had an appointment, she's in the age group there in Florida, so she's on her way to at least a little bit of relief from the fear her sister already had, the covid.


As did my uncle. But my mother and her boyfriend have not, and they were both inoculated with the first shot, which is good to make me squirrelly that I know what's out there. I don't know what I can get it. And I know that it's everywhere where I live. It's everywhere here.


The relief is so fleeting that it's just the relief is so fleeting.


I appreciated President elect Biden's comments. He did say it was seditious, probably, which it is. He did call it an insurrection, which it is. All that anti-American you can add fascistic to. But he said, this isn't who we are, but you know what, I've got to tell you, this is who some of us are. That is what it is, some of us are fascists who seek single party rule and our brain fucked enough.


To other everyone, but people they see as within their belief system, and that violence can get awful, historically speaking, and we want to believe that it's a minority and it is, but. Symbolically, what? The pig president did yesterday. Was signal quite clearly that he will remain their leader? We'll see where that goes. What happens now in the next two weeks? That guy should be thrown in fucking jail. After all this fear of projecting that they do calling antifascists, calling liberal Democrats communists, calling everybody the names evil, he calls us calls Democrats evil.


They are the things that they are projecting, that's the most basic deflection of like a five year old. No, I'm not. You are. No, I'm not. You are. No, I'm not. You are. Why are you turning blue, because my hands are around your throat. I'm not killing you. You are. Man. He should actually be in jail. He should be forced out of office. Ted Cruz should resign. Senator Hollowly should resign.


They provoked this, they all fucking stood there and helped this along, enabled it, let it happen. Look, there's good and bad people everywhere, right, know who they are. I hope when you hear this, things have leveled off a little bit, I can't really go on about it. I'm just a comedian, folks. But just know there might be fascists in your family and they're proud of it, and they let everybody know that yesterday.


So Thundercat is somebody I always wanted to talk to.


I first saw him with Kamasi Washington at the Staples Center. I think the club at the staple Nokia Club, Nokia, I think is where I saw them come out. He had a broken leg, but I was amazed by him.


And I've listened to his solo records. I don't know everything he's done, but I enjoyed the the album Drunk. I listened to some of his earlier albums and then this new one is great. It's called It Is What It Is. It's nominated for the best progressive RB album, Grammy, and you can get it wherever you get your music. This is me talking to him.


How are you feeling? Hey, I'm all right. Yeah, it is a rough day already.


You know, this is somehow somehow between the Internet and them showing Teen Titans in the morning.


It's Teen Titans. I just can't I don't know that I can't do with this cartoon. Is the worst cartoon. No. Well, I mean, you have choices around cartoons. You don't have to watch them. True. So many subscriptions. So many. What is Teen Titans? Is that an old one?


I mean, it's it's an old DC comic, but it's also like, I guess the Cartoon Network kind of like they they that's their main cartoon.


They reboot. It is. Yeah. They rebooted it and it's just been booted. That's what it feels like. It's just no good. It's been boot boot oriented for sure. I feel like I'm getting kicked in the stomach every time I watch it.


Did you grow up with the comics? I mean, is that was that your thing for sure? I'm a Marvel kid through and through. Like I remember the day I started trading Marvel cards in middle school. Really? And yeah, I mean, I was I was a collector of many different things. But Marvel Cards is definitely like the beginning for me, you know.


Did you watch The New Wonder Woman? Yes, I did. And yeah, it goes right in line with this year. It's a great way to finish the year out. Disappointed.


You know, the funny thing is I like an old hit. I went to a comic store one day and this old had the guy that worked there. It was kind of like he told me, he's like, hey, man, be open to stuff because it's like, you know, it's got to translate for the kids. It's got to travel the generations.


It's got to go past what you know and all that stuff. And he was right. So there's a part of me that's always open to stuff. But as a marvel, as a Marvel kid through it, like literally every marvel had to have a couple of Marvel tattoos. There's a part of me that was just kind of like and I was like I was watching it with my family and I felt bad because it was like it was like almost like vomit.


I kept booing in between moments. It was like I was like, oh, I hope nobody here is going to get pissed. It's like I couldn't I couldn't do it, man. I couldn't do it.


I watched it and I was just kind of like, OK, you see the first one? Yeah. I took my daughter to see the first one and he liked it. You know, it's funny to I'll say this. I'll say there's something about it. Suck in so much more because not because of not being able to go to a movie theater. Sure. So it's like sharing the experience with my daughter. The first time it was kind of like it was an experience, right.


It wasn't just about Wonder Woman, the comic. It was kind of like, you know, I could read between the lines with this movie. And I was like, you know, it's a good thing.


You know, it's like it's like my daughter, she she vibe with it a bit, you know, even though my daughter usually listens like Slipknot and stuff, like she kind of she had a vibe with it, you know, I don't like I don't watch I didn't grow up with the comics, I didn't read many comics was later in life and they were just like Swamp Thing, Sandman, Hellblazer, like, I didn't grow up.


That's the good stuff though. Yeah. Yeah, great. And I don't know what I was in my thirties and I was like, this is the best nice.


But I didn't grow up with it or caring about it.


Now when I watch a Marvel movie, if I ever do, I'm always disappointed because I don't know, I'm not expecting anything and I'm a grown up, so, you know, but it's an age old tale, I think.


I think that there's always a hard a hard thing for adaptation.


It's like something that I said this to another comic store owner, friend of mine. I was like, there's something about the idea of fantasy when you when you solidify or make it real that it just like dispels it for you. You know, it's like there's even pictures, right?


You don't engage any of your own imagination. You're just reacting to this thing. Whereas for some reason, if you have the ability to contain, you know, contain a story that's written in panels, which not everybody does, that you don't really realize how much room there is in your imagination because these are just still panels.


And you have to point you're not even paying that much attention to them. They're there just to provoke your imagination somehow.


Exactly. That's exactly what happens. Right. So the relationship is a lot different than having it all done for you and then, you know, having to trust that person to do it for you. I mean, who the fuck is that person?


You know? Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, it's like, you know, I mean, like a couple of the moments, I was kind of like seeing the superpowers in real life. You kind of go, I could I could probably kick his ass. That guy. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I could probably beat him up, you know. Yeah. He's not scary. Yeah.


I guess for me that the first one was good in ways that a lot of comic book people didn't like. Like I liked the ending, you know, like all the big weirdness of the ending. But they thought that was sort of like a sellout or something or something kind of overcompensating. I said, well, what are we working towards if it's not going to be something great like that? Yeah.


Yeah, it's like there's so. Watch the pool from with these stories, just like he could, it could afford to go anywhere, man. And you know, one thing I will say, too, is that one thing that's dope is that it highlights a home guy, the guy that also plays the Mandalorian.


He was great. Yeah. Here's the best thing about that movie. Yeah, he played a real creep. The great thing about his creep, though, was like it was an insecure creep and you could see his insecurities from the get go. So you kind of had this weird empathy, you know, which makes him a more interesting evil guy because you're like, oh, he's just a insecure loser. He's like Trump. Yeah. He's just like the comb over and everything, right?




Well, I mean, I don't have much empathy for Trump, but I mean, if you could, it would look like the Wonder Woman villain.


Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a huge Kristen Wiig fan, and she's always good to see her, you know what I mean?


Like, I mean, I didn't understand that whole part. I guess you have to know the comic books like why why turn her into an animal when there's no real precedent for that? You go where she's just an on as a guy who doesn't know the comics, I was like, well, that's a weird choice.


Yeah. Cheetah, I knew who that character was, but I was also this like it again. It was one of those moments where I was like, you know, it's kind of like it felt like this, like it felt like a really bad cut and paste.


It's like, yeah, some of this stuff was really amazing.


And here's Cheetah and it's just like, all right.


Well, you know what else I just watched was I watched that Frank Zappa documentary. Oh, nice. As you watch it. Now, I've been meaning to I mean, completely just sitting here, just sitting here staring at the sky and watching cowboy beep.


Yeah. Oh, I'm a total anime nerd, man.


I'm just like, yeah, you know, through and through things like the gist of this has been me sitting here tripping out, watching Helen and me. But I, I've been meaning to a fantasy worked for you and it gives you relief.


That's great. Like, I don't I don't have that.


I you know, I just have, you know, dread and existence.


Yeah. And you wrote a song about that. Which album was that. I was that on the new one existentialist. And that was good. Yeah.


I could relate that.


I can relate to a lot of the songs but but I was watching like I talked to Bootsy a couple of weeks ago and then I watched the Zappa doc.


So you're talking about Parliament and then watching, you know, what Zappa is trying to do and then listening to some of this stuff you've done. And the first time I saw you, I saw you with Kamasi when Kamasi had his broken leg and he was sitting in a throne down and.


Oh, yeah, it was like that was at the Staples. It was a I can't remember where we saw it, but you guys have been somewhere and he had to sit in a chair because he couldn't walk. It wasn't the mine. I don't think so.


I feel like it was like you just returned. It was in the small room at the Staples Center in the smaller. Wow. Maybe it was I mean, and that was when I first saw you.


And I was like, how many strings are on that bass?


So, yeah.


But I guess the point being is that, you know, my understanding of where music goes and what music can do, it seems something that you're highly aware of and there seems to be no real boundary to it.


Yeah, no, it's it's very open and I blame it on how I was raised. And, you know, I always feel like the somewhere between the lines is where we exist with the stuff. So we got to always consistently blur those lines, you know.


Yeah. Well, how well how does your upbringing relate? Well, quite literally. I mean, basically, I mean, Kamasi, my brother and we kind of amongst other people, we kind of we were kind of born together, so to speak. I mean, Camus's dad used to play together in high school or in college. Your dad. Yeah, our parents and and even what was his interest, Kamasi? My dad's my dad's instrument was the drums.


Camus's dad's a horn player, right? Yeah.


Kamasi dad is a horn player. Yeah. And then also another one. Another one like that is Georgia and Moldova. Like our parents grew up playing together and they had us and it was kind of like, you know, you got they could go one of a couple of ways and you got the kids that resents because it's always being shoved down your throat or. Yeah, but they write it actually translated. Otherwise it turned into like, you know, it was kind of passed down us.


So there's a part of it where we started taking it really serious at a really young age, like at a very young age. We got a chance to write with with the likes of Reggie Andrews and that Thelonious Monk Institute and in in all these different, you know, things as we were kids were very it kind of cultivated our ability.


And and on top of that, we were also doing stuff like playing in nightclubs. And, you know, like I was the kid where, you know, I couldn't stand in front of or behind the club, but I would come into play and then they would kick me out and throw me down the street. Right. You know, like we were those guys. And but any time it was a any time we got a chance to play and it was like we got a chance to grow, we would we would take it.


But you go see your folks, you would see your fathers play a lot. Oh, yeah, I could go to the rehearsal space or whatever. Yeah.


So like at that time, because, like, I don't I came, you know, I always kind of knew about jazz. I listen to jazz a lot more now. I've broadened my collection a little bit. Yeah.


And, you know, I can't wrap my brain around theory or anything like that. You know, I play guitar, but I don't read music necessarily understand things about it. But I can listen to stuff, you know, I do. I have pretty adventurous ears like stuff doesn't bother me no matter how weird it gets.


Yeah. So like, when you're younger, I mean, what kind of jazz were were you being brought up with really.


Everything from big band to to jazz fusion to straight ahead. It was kind of all in better. We like growing up with Reggie Andrews was a it was kind of like, you know, everything from we would listen to to to the to jazz in the mornings. And he would always quiz this on, you know, what kinds of things where we would have to be able to tell who was playing by how they sounded. Yeah. Yeah. So we would sit and listen to the radio and you it would be little little incentive, things like that he would reward is for people.


I mean who is this. And I mean it sound like I sound like Ornette Coleman or I sound like Wayne Shorter. You know, you hear certain types of note selection and stuff like that or certain you can do it.


Yeah, you can tell most of them. Yeah. It was kind of, you know, from that to like the types of standards we would learn, like Hamas's dad, we we would practice that Hamas's dad's house a lot and Cameron Cameron Graves is another one. We would practice at their parents house. And you know, Camus's dad would give Kamasi like a task or give us a task to write a tune or learn a tune a day. Yeah.


Know take you know, if you're going to sit back here and play is cool to be playing, but like challenge yourself. Ulmann is something new and it's going to be it's skewes and offsets the comfortability of how you know, all that kind of stuff. And then from that to like, you know, we were competing like the John Coltrane Jazz Awards and stuff like that. We would do all kinds of stuff and we would just be involved in exercise.


Yeah, it was like it was a constant learning, constant learning.


Even when you're like sleeping, it was learning. We mean Kamasi, when I remember the day ameba, I remember the day ameba set up and became a reality. And me and Kamasi used to live there like Massee would go to UCLA and, you know, him and Cameron would be in school. And then after they get out of school or when they would be on break and come back to, you know, they stayed in a spot at one point and we would just go get in the car, buy a burrito and go to ameba and spend like five hours there and come out with a sea of music.


And we'd be sitting in the car eating burritos, listening to, like, some new Cherkovski or some some, you know, like what is this?


OK, you know, just examining stuff like that and trying to listen with bigger years, you know.


So it was all it was all music and marvel for you. Oh, yeah, man. That's an anime music marvel in anime. And that was when I say that's to this day, it's kind of like that's what everybody is always up against.


Whereas just like in my in my most profound moment, I will still make a dragonball reference.


Well, you know, it's embedded in me.


And I think that maybe that's some of the stuff that I don't quite understand on some of the records, which are references to things that I don't know about. Yeah, that's Dragonball. Dragonball is life. That's that's what it is. You know, Dragonball is what is it?


It's one of the best cartoons ever created in the history of cartooning. It's like you got Mickey Mouse, you know, you got Gundam, you know, you got Marvel, you got I mean, you know, I'm not going to fully be a hater. I'm going to say for most first it's the same.


Is that the is that the Western with the with the with the sensei.


No, no, no. You got Gundam is a Japanese cartoon. That's a it's just giant robot. It's kind of like in the earlier years of giant robot, there's a lot of different giant ruvo.


But, you know, you got all these different things. You got Hello Kitty from Japan. You've got all the stuff with Dragon Ball. Sure. And Dragonball Z and now Dragonball Super Skipping Dragon Boat. It's like it's kind of like this. It's the story of this is basically following this alien kid as he's growing and watching him learn how to be human. It's kind of it's got a lot of parallels to, like, stuff that we recognize, like a Superman or like a, you know, or just a, you know, the X-Men and stuff like that.


It's like he's an alien. What's the matter with me? I don't know, man.


I just felt really just it felt like neither here nor there, there was some good stuff in it, you know, certain moments. But it felt like it felt like the trope of as compared to the feeling or the quality of Dragonball Z. So you would see, you know, like certain certain obstacles. Goku and then the guys had to overcome and Z were like, really like you could feel it, you know, Goku would die and like, you have to wish him back.


And then they only had this one. They can only wish certain people back. So executive decisions would have to be made about who they bring back. And Goku comes back ten times powerful. He's been traveling astral and. It's like he's been doing all kinds of stuff, so the story of Goku from a boy starts at Dragonball and then Dragonball Z is him as a man, and then Dragonball G.T. is just him after listening to Flock of Seagulls or something.


I don't know. And then. Wow. And then Dragonball Soopers him as a God, you know, and it's got to be for him.


But you just you explain it to me and it's like, you know, even if I'm interested, it feels like it would take a lifetime for me to to take it to catch up Dragonball Z, I mean.


Well, you know, there's there's there's Cliffs Notes, versions of it. And the truth is the manga. The manga is where it started as and if you were into reading like that, I mean, if you wanted to check out Dragonball, it's always available. It's like it's almost no, it's like Batman. It's like it's a common there's a good right. You could pick up at different points and it would still be like, oh, I get it.


Oh yeah. That's great. That's good.


OK, well how did this when you look at that, when you think do you have a whole room in your house for Vianello one for comic books.


I mean it's all in the same space. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Like it's all not separate. It is all vinyl's comics, video games, toys. It's just here. Right. Looks like kind of Broadway in here.


Well when you think about it, do you feel that, you know, somehow or another, whatever your love for comic and fantasy planted in you influence the music or your ability to to to see music differently?


Yeah, man, the cartoons. I'm not going to like the cartoons, inspire the music. It's like the like every Naruto and cartoons like Naruto and Cowboy Bebop in Dragonball Z. They inspired me to push harder. Like to know that there's a there is more there. You just have to push harder. Like it's always any time I've ever watched Naruto like it made me feel like I can be a better person, like any time I watch it. I immediately started doing push ups or like, you know.


Or really. Yeah, like I spent most of this year and as we're talking about this year and I mean, there is a giant weight loss that happened for me.


And yeah, you look at you look lean. I remember when I saw you at Kamasi, you were heavier.


Kind of bulbous. Yeah. But your big base, five strings. Yeah.


It's like it's one of those things with six strings or five, six strings, six rings, a lot of things.


But but every now and again you can definitely catch me playing five to it's like it's one of those things where a lot of things had changed rapidly on the on the the death of one of my best friends and also the loss of like a person I was really in love with. It was it became really difficult. So I went through a weird moment of being depressed for real. For real.


And this was this was like this year you had some it started a couple of years.


This started a couple of years back. And so, you know, your friend died and someone you were in love with died. No, they didn't die. They just left me. Oh, OK. Both of them are are that one passed away and one left you. Yeah.


And it's kind of consecutive. And it was like it was like it started getting worse and I like. Yeah. And when Mack passed personally it changed my life. That's right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think from that time period till now, a lot of changes drastically happened that would result in me physically changing. So I became vegan and I stopped drinking, um, because I was basically like I feel like I had seen too much, you know.


Well, I mean, I notice that with, you know, going through all the records, you know, from apocalypse forward that, you know, that, you know, when you talk from the first person, it's interesting.


There's there's a style of of.


Songwriting that, like I noticed a little more in jazz, like I was listening to Horace Silver's latest later albums where he incorporated, you know, vocals and stuff. Yeah, he brought in people. And, you know, there is a type of earnest sort of presentation in in some of that more experimental jazz singing where, you know, no one's looking for hooks, but it's more philosophical and more straightforward, you know, and it's not you know, it's not based on rhyme or anything other than ideas.


Right. So there's some of this stuff that I was listening to and I was like there were points in the work where I was thinking that.


Is he writing from the first person or is he creating a character here? Because if he's writing from the first person, this guy's heading for a wall.


And so is life.


Right. There you go. All right. There it is.


And it seems like you're drinking too much. And you you got a heavy heart and you're too sensitive and you get in trouble in Japan. That's what I like.


That is that is quite literal, sir. This is me in real life.


Yes. Well, that's good that you pull that together, man, but it's all in there. Yeah. I mean, you know, you're pretty honest in your work. You know, once I get past the sort of, you know, the music, which is great, but just listening to you. So it was it was because you worked with Mac Miller a bit, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was one of my best friends. Oh, he was.


Yeah, it's hard, man, you know. So did you see the struggle with drugs with him?


Yeah, I was there for the most part of that. Yeah.


And that and that. And that was a wake up call for you in the midst of the grief where you realized that, you know, even if you weren't doing the same drugs that perhaps you have, you were increasing your odds of of of of mortality.




Yeah. I, um. I mean, I mean, I really hate that it took I hate that it took that when I look back in hindsight, you know, but uh huh, it's kind of one of those things where it's like I just something something had to give. Right. You know? Right. Yeah. And you don't want it to be your your mind to your life.


Right. So, yeah. So, you know, and it seems like you either get the lesson or you get out of here for sure. One way or the other. Yeah. Yeah.


But well I'm glad that you chose the the art and the faith and the the decision to change the life.


Find some hope. Yeah.


You know, I watch a lot of Star Wars, so and but what about the work.


I mean, is the album. It is what it is the processing of that.


Yeah. Yeah. It was like I think it was like, you know, somewhere between real life.


It's like, you know, again, like you're saying sometimes stuff for me can be a bit literal.


And um yeah. That was, that was me processing it. That was the change happening. And yeah. Um it just was kind of it's again it's like looking back on it, it was really it was a bit traumatizing.


It was a bit um, emotionally traumatizing at least.


Um, it's terrible men and it's like it's like I, you know, I went through something this year just terrible. And there's nothing, you know, when you lose somebody and your heart breaks, you know both, you know, like however you lose people, it's heartbreaking.


And you get to a point, you know, I'm older than you were. You like, you know, I don't know how much of this shit I can take. You know, how much are we built we built to handle this. I don't know if I could do another one of these, you know, and and when when it's death, then, you know, because that's a surprising one.


Then you're like, well, shit, you know, there's no avoiding this.


And we're all going to deal with this grief if we if we live long enough one way or the other.


But if it's people leave in or you leave and then it's like, I don't have to do this again, like it, as my buddy Brendan said, you know, you sort of earn your stripes as a human when you process this shit without, you know, destroying yourself. There you go. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that, you know. Yeah. And it's you know, it's it's never easy. But you don't realize that, you know, like you don't realize.


It's always like you have to it's going to, you know, the consistent having to overcome and trying to like. Oh yeah. Be able to still walk straight after somebody hit you in the side of the head with a glass bottle. You know, it's like, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. And and the work help did.


I mean, when you when you were doing the music, did it help?


I mean, I remember it's always music has always been a bit therapeutic and a bit like it's it becomes that. But I think in this moment it really was it was like overwhelmingly painful. So getting if I didn't have Flying Lotus there with me and he's always been there with me, like I always talk about him. But it's the truth. If Flying Lotus wasn't there with me to help me see me through some of these moments, I it just would be me, a tail spinning, you know, and.


Yeah, he's a good friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


It's genuinely like beyond the music, even though I mean, like I always say, when I, when I refer to him, I always say people can hear our relationship in the music, but yeah, beyond the music, it's one of these things where it's like, I don't know, he's just always I feel like he's always cared for me, you know. Yeah. And and important when you're in the grief. Yeah. In those moments, he's he's he's kind of you know, he may he he would help me be able to stay standing straight on stuff with me on the side of the head like that, you know.






To hold you up in a way, you know, to get you like because like when my when my girlfriend passed away in May, I got a friend who, you know, he just started calling me and we talk every fucking night, man, you know, even now, like, you know, right from the get go. And it was just sort of like it's grounding because if you just have to sit in it and you don't got no love coming your way in the form of just a guy going, like, what's going on?


What would you do? What you eat? You know what? Even thinking about you read a thing, you know, whatever, just to be like, get me out of it, you know, for a minute, right?


Yeah, absolutely.


MAN And then Flying Lotus, I like that guy's a genius. You're a genius. So, like, you know, you're swirling around in the possibilities. You know, I imagine that outside the friendship, you're like, well, let's let's let's get into this thing. What's that thing you were working on? Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah.


Lotus can keep me focused and he really can.


What's that guy's background? Because I talked to Anderson PAC about him and then I went on a little spin with some of his work and I knew like before I knew you guys. Buddies are work together like a couple of days ago when I knew I was going to talk to you, I'm like, he's got to be with Flying Lotus because the groove is sort of similar where you guys are going. Yeah. So that you kind of inform each other, huh?


Yeah. Yeah.


That's how I mean, you know, again, you know, there's a moment where you see stuff in weird shades and greatest. I still remember vividly meeting him at South by Southwest. I remember what he was wearing. I remember his sentiment. I remember the necklace. I remember I remember the shoes.


I remember how hot it was. And it was like it was it was one of the greatest moments, you know, not knowing, like unbeknownst to both of us, it was kind of like those kind of things, like we and we should hang out. And it was like we should definitely hang out.


And yeah. And it just, you know, like life changes and the different growth and, you know. And did you know his work before you met him?


Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We both we both knew of each other's work to, to I mean I feel like he I was a little bit more spotty back in the day. It wasn't I didn't have albums. It wasn't something that was like solidified like that until I signed a Brainfeeder Records. But, uh, I mean, he knew of my work by way of like the different things like Saraa Creative Partners and Erykah Badu and different of different people that I would work with.


And he you know, it's like we both knew that there was something that, you know, was like, yeah, man, I was a very big fan of his work.


Of course, you know. You know, yeah. This man is the sound of Los Angeles, you know. Yeah. It's it's like it's interesting when I entered the world that you guys live in musically because it's not really my world. And when I go in there, I realized a couple of things like, well, this is amazing and deep and broad and and I you know, where the fuck am I living?


You know, I if this is happening all right. And I every once in a while I walk into it. I'm like, holy shit, there's a whole other planet here, you know?


And I, you know. Yeah.


Because all you guys kind of like the world of of of him Flying Lotus and you and Kamasi and Kendrick and like there's whole like amalgamation of different styles of music, sort of constantly coming together among the crew that you guys are seen to be with.


Yeah, no. At any given moment, you know, we'll get together in and something, something comes of it, you know, it's just I think that's just kind of a somewhere between like, you know, that's like the not I want to say by product of the environment. But as compared to that's it's somewhere between the actual relationship and relationships that you have with each other. And there's no way it's not going to translate musically. You know, it's going to it's because music is the way we communicate.


It's like we're part of it. We're it's it's embedded in there. You know, it's like, you know, you're looking for a chance to accentuate, you know, you're like you're kind of like, OK, let me see if I can challenge me, challenge this a bit or like, oh, let me go. You know, it's like I'm constantly tinkering with each other stuff, you know, and.


Well, it's interesting to me, like like you guys like you and Kamasi, like, come on.


Like when I first heard EPIK, you know, I talked to him years ago, you know, he talked to me and I like, you know, I heard EPIK and I'm like, holy shit, man, the production on this is insane. And then I realized, you know, when you guys play my song, you play live that like you're playing life. Like, you know, all that stuff is not you're not doing tracks, you know.


Yeah. So I'm like, holy shit, you know, he's got the choral group there.


He's got the strings over here. He's got his dad and he's got you and another guy on bass or two keyboards. Like I'm like, what the fuck is happening?


Drummers, you know, but you got to imagine being what you wanna hear something funny.


You got to imagine that in a small nightclub off of Crenshaw Boulevard, like the whole entire without the without the orchestra on the strings, but the whole band hanging out and trying to play like Fifth Street did. So you Lammert or don't seem to be hanging out the side of the club, have to man on the outside of the club. Oh my God. I just see some of the funniest moments.


You know, you got Cameron and Brandon playing and me and Myles and, you know, Isaac and in his capacity, everyone, we would just be playing and they wouldn't.


It was like, man, there doesn't really need to be nice because we're the audience. Yeah. So many of you have to be the little small coffee, like fifteen band who's getting paid from this kid.


Nobody to pay us some coffee and sandwiches.


But that's what that was, that was the the kind of the, the, the primal super the thing. Right.


I mean yeah that's where else. Guess that's who we were you know. But like but my point was like when I was an epic I was like this is groundbreaking and it is. But, but then I listen to Mingus and I'm. Oh, well, there that Korrell thing sort of a precedent, you know, that I mean, that's been around, right?


So I started to put that stuff together. And then when I listen to you, like, there's definitely like, you know, there's a Kamasi Jazz and then there's, you know, what you're doing is a little different in your own way. Right. Your approach is more fusion oriented, where commodities like pretty much traditional hard bop, bop, bop, like he's coming from a different place in a way.


Yeah, absolutely. It's all it's all embedded in there. You know, of course. First album together, we recorded as a young jazz giants when we were kids. It was just, you know, it was kind of like we would try to, you know, incorporate everything that everybody was into, you know? And it's like there's a right I'm playing up right on the album. I'm like, there's a song called Stephen's Song where you like where it's kind of like, you know, my electric bass, you know?


And then there's like this giant drum solo at the end and then and then Cameron and you know it Cameron's insanely gifted piano playing. Um, one person I feel like I don't talk about enough is Cameron Graves, to be honest with you, Cameron. And it's just growing up with a Cameron Graves. It also was a it was a really big deal between Cameron and Kamasi.


They were always teaching me, you know, they were always showing you, showing me how to play through what they would be processing. Why? Oh, this is these skills. Go with this. This is what fits here. Like they would be from that to like, oh, nah, man. You know, like the repetition, the part where I learn the repetition was growing up with Cameron Graves. I watch a guy sit and practice piano for nine hours a day growing up and literally we could be having a conversation.


It wouldn't matter. He had the metronome on me, chewing his tongue and going through the scales. Are you trying to sit here and play Resident Evil? And then he'd get up and play some resident evil and then go right back to playing?


You know, it's just it was that's that was my upbringing, you know? And I was very fortunate, very fortunate to have Cameron and Kamasi and my older brother as teachers, you know what I mean?


And what think early on, you know, outside of those guys, you know, and living in the sort of world of jazz all the time.


I mean, who were the who were the people, the artists that really kind of connected with you early on where you were like that? You know, like I want to play bass. I want to play bass like that, or, you know, I get it now.


It was definitely, definitely JoCo and Stanley, you know, Stanley Clarke, right. Jack and Stanley like in it again, of course, the introduction is to JoCo around the age. I'm around ten or so. And the same thing with Stan. Yeah, I was of a certain age.


And then, you know, it's one of those things where I had many different moments. I remember everybody would always talk to me about different, you know, different cats growing up, you know, getting Ray Brown and, you know, Mingus, of course, and stuff like that. And then I would you know, Ron Carter, of course. And Myroslava was like, but it's funny because I think that the place that it was specifically for me was in the jazz fusion era, because there was everything in being embodied in those moments from upright to electric.


And he felt like in that moment as a transitional part of the music, I think there was somewhere where I knew that there was a place for me that existed, you know? I mean, it's like there's a part of it was, oh, as a bassist being able to do all of that, you know, like something like this is this is OK, this you can do. It was like almost like being introduced to what this is what you can do with your instrument.


Right. Right, right.


Well yeah, I'll get it. Yeah. Because like, you know, because of the way you grew up, you realized on some level that there were limitations to traditional jazz. Right. So, yeah, I imagine, you know, getting hip to Stanley Clarke or JoCo, you started to like the departure from upright. Yeah. Like almost any possibility at all. Yeah. Yeah.


And then one one two other important ones are Anthony Jackson and Paul Jackson. Anthony Jackson like changed my sense of melody and harmony tremendously. You know, it's kind of like one those things are all I mean, there's only a few bass players that I would always say I wanted to be like growing up. It was definitely Stanley and Jaco and Anthony Jackson, Anthony Jackson and Paul Jackson and Anthony Jackson played electric.


You know, I mean, I have my favorites, Eddie Gomez and Charlie Haden and stuff like that. I was very aware of different, you know, cats growing up. But Anthony Jackson's relation to Melody and how often he would be able to how how effortlessly he would change the course of music from the simplest place. It just always was like, I want to be able to do that.


I want to be able to do that. I want to it's like you could hear him talking under the music. It was crazy. But that's what I guess that's what that's the.


Opportunity that base gives you is that you can just sort of like almost quietly change everything. Yeah, yeah.


If, you know, where are we now? And I don't know, the bass player just did something. We're in a different place entirely. Yeah.


I always, always feel like, you know, we always say, you know, lead singer and guitarist, you know. Sure. Like, you know, we know deep down bass players around the world.


They do. They do. The rhythm section runs the world really, right? Yes. Yes.


And I don't understand that relationship with like, you know, I learned about it later in life, just like listening to rock music that, you know, that if the rhythm section is in tight, the whole the whole project's a mess.


Yeah. You and you can drive a Lamborghini with a donut.


I mean, yeah. You don't agree with the line properly.


Yeah, but where do you put like people like like, you know, I have to assume only because I just talked to him a couple of weeks ago that Bootsy is important.


Oh yeah man. Yeah, yeah man. And be honest with you.


Like the man, man, old man. And it's like again, like Bootsy and Bernie Warrell.


To me that was also who I wanted to be like, well, I hear like all through your records, like there's like, you know, because, you know, you get a groove and you're not you don't you don't you're not concerned with hooks. You know, you're kind of concerned about your movement. But everyone's like, there's that Bernie rural style synthesizer. It's just pop in. Occasionally we hear like, okay, there's a reminder of something, you know, intergalactic reminder.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Bootsy and Burning Man.


It's just it's and it's like somewhere between being able to vacillate between roles as as as the instrument is always like leaned on or it always has like this heavy anchor trying to find the ways that it like can also become texture, can also become progressive progression. You can also become, you know, percussive, you know, like finding those places.


Yeah. Because like I notice that, like, you know, if you play a couple of bass tracks down because I know yesterday I might it might be on the new record where, you know, you're kind of, you know, doing something very up front with the bass as a, you know, a single voice almost where, you know, this is the bass singing here up front. But then all of a sudden, like a different bass or drop that bottom beat, you know, you know, as a percussion, but you're still on top of it with the other one or however you're working that.


And then you really kind of illustrate what you're talking about, the two differences to, you know, the approach in the possibilities of bass.


Yeah, yeah, yeah.


But like Bootsy, what struck me about talking to him is so I got to nowhere on this last record, this new one that he did, the one you know, you know, he's playing with George Benson and I'm like George Benson really.


And then like you. But then you you know, you got Kenny Loggins, you got Michael McDonald, but you've got this respect, you know, coming through Phusion in the 70s for these cats, like in my youth, I might have found a little boring. Right.


So I George Benson, you know, George Benson's all right.


You know, I know him from the hits when I was a kid. Yeah. Bootsy's like I always wanted to play with George Benson.


And I'm like, really rip man.


I know he's great. Yeah. I mean, but I judged because of my association, you know, I'm it's hard for me to sort of adapt to fusion. Dude, I don't know why you're like out of all the jazz styles, it's hard for me and dad.


I think one of the reasons is because there is a kind of softness to it.


And I you know, I require anxiety and, you know, out of it. I need I need the Jazz to have a Ritalin effect on my own trip. Like I need I hey, you do OK? Yes, but but listening to you or listening to Lotus that like, you know, if you want to go on the ocean and, you know, just, you know, take that journey, you know, it's it's here for you.


You know, if you want to be in a fucking storm, then, you know, go live there, right.


Yeah, right. Right, right. I hear you. That makes that makes total sense. And I'm like, I don't know. And I go like this. Well, here you go. That's where enter George Duke and Frank Zappa. Right. You know. Right.


Yeah, man. Right. Because like that stuff like you listen to the production on that shit and there's there's no way it's not going to be hard on you. It's not going to be harsh no matter what Frank's doing, the way that they put that stuff together, you know, stuff that is pretty aggressively dissonant and challenging. Yeah. But still, there's there's such a ring to it.


You're like, no, I'm OK with this. It's not making me. Aggravated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what was it like, you know, I guess Jaco and Stanley would do it because that seems to be, you know, where you prefer to live is in that kind of, you know, starting with that fusion foundation.


Yeah, I mean, it's I don't know, because it's like I think it's important.


I think it's important man on to a major degree, like the ability and prowess of the instruments, you know, like your physical ability. It's like it's important. It's just as important, you know, and.


I feel like there's a lot of I mean, and like I said, I always am a firm believer in the idea of somewhere in between, you know, like finding where it's almost like it's no different than a marriage or a or a love for something.


You know, it's like the hard work as compared to the feelings and stuff like that and trying to understand how to balance those things. It's literally always somewhere in between. I think the same. And when it comes to the music, I think, like, OK, be able to have that, but then also be able to pull back, but then also be able to, you know, like intensify and. Right. Have something to say. You know, it's it's a it's imperative.


And it also structurally like because of the way you've set up how you conceive of albums and music, like you've really set up a situation where you can do whatever you want, you know, for, you know, you have 30 second, 40 second too many pieces, but you can move through any any sound you want.


I mean, you know, one of my favorite things is I always say, you know, like Dre, I can do a 20 minute, 20 second song and nobody batting an eyelash do it right. It's like, yeah, it's like that's all in there. I'm like, you know what? That's sometimes that's all you have to say. You know, it's like sometimes that one moment is it and it's not right. Meant to be anything.


Why not let it be its own thing? I think those moments are just just as important, you know. Yeah.


And you're probably gonna have this before, but like talk to me about because it seems like you and Kamasi and whatever you guys, you know how that all came together with Kendrick on to Pimp a Butterfly, that there is something fundamental about like I now know the evolution out of, you know, jazz, into hip hop, into rap.


Like I watched a documentary on the Blue Note, on the, you know, on Blue Note Records. And I never put it together quite like that. And now I kind of get that.


But it seems to me that when you guys did that album, that you would really sort of discovered the kind of the perfect samba symbiosis between jazz and and rap.


Do you feel that that that that something was that you like because of, I guess, Kendrick sensitivity to, you know, what you guys were doing?


I don't know if he grew up with you guys that you created something. I would say almost totally original with that record because of the jazz element. Yeah.


I mean, that that album, it was the definition of a perfect storm, you know. Yeah, I have that happen of man.


You got you know, it's it's it's the snapshot of everything that was literally happening, it happening at the time.


I mean, every I mean, again, if we were going to keep it musically, it's one of those things where everybody's mind and heart was open. In that one moment, we're trying to push into something new. And, um, the way he would go about bringing that about, you know, it's like sometimes it's like the part where, yeah, you got to get us all in the room together sometimes, you know, that's definitely a part of it.


You know, you know, everybody's everybody, along with their heart and mind being in the same place. It's like physically with the instruments and stuff like that. You know, we were spending a lot of time in different ways and stuff like that, you know, Commodity's. Me and Kamasi are always on tour in our own worlds and stuff like that.


And yeah, at this point, I'm writing music like every day and get on the computer and, you know, I'm digging around up here and, you know, digging around over here and yeah, in and it's a bit like, you know, it was kind of like everybody brought their best to that moment.


I think, you know, this is.


And did you guys know Kendrick? Did you grow up with him? Not as not as not in the same way that I grew up with with the Kamasi. I didn't I didn't know Kendrick as a kid now. But in the process of working, he reminded me or let me know the first time that he you know, he got a chance to interact with me. And it was like I think I was playing with this group, DJ Dave and him and his group, I think Black Hippy Open for DJ Davy at one point.


And he expressed to me how he remembers seeing me play with him. And I think I met him. And that was, again, years prior to to Pimp a Butterfly coming out, of course. Yeah. I mean, for me, it was hard for me to remember, too, because, again, you know, mentally I'd be in different places back then, of course, you know, but, you know, it was crazy because it's one of those moments where I think that this is a moment where he he just wanted to bring me in to what it was, I guess, a bit.


And I'm happy he did. You know, I'm very happy he did.


And it was all it was open. Right. So because it seems to me that that generally is not like you and Kamasi had a shorthand and, you know, and you were you know, you were all it seemed like the creative convergence was not was not that common in that world. In the sense that using real instruments and whatnot is that, you know, again, this is years and years of us having played together. So it's like it's one of those things you get us in a room, it's not going to not happen.


You know, it's like it's just it's that's what we have spent our life doing. So it's like, you know, even if we hadn't seen each other in ages or I was saying MACV, you know, to our tour, you know, Miles, doing this thing or however this translates, it's like, you know, it's you know, we would learn wheadon we've known each other's music since we were kids.


So, you know, you start playing a tune and boy, I remember that tune or like you know, you know, you know, and it and Kendrick was just open to it because he knew what you guys were capable or he would, he would take elements of it in like you know, you know, you know, he'd play it or he'd find places for it.


Yeah. Right, right. Right. So what is what's your relationship with Japan? And, you know, it definitely again, it started when I was a kid. They definitely started, uh, early on. You know, I through anime, it was definitely anime for sure. Definitely anime for sure. Realizing realizing how much stuff was anime. As a kid, I always talk about it where it's kind of like, yeah, you know, all of our cartoons from like him into the silver hoggs to, you know, the mighty Aubert's, to the Transformers to Thundercat.


Those are all Japanese animators, you know, Sheere, princes of power frickin. It's the other one, Jim and the holograms. That's all that's.


So we're already we were already being fed that. And then on top of that, my first introduction to Dragonball Z was a wrist, a bracelet that I got at a dentist office. And I remember it because I also I don't talk about it as much, but I I also illustrate I'm also the illustrator. And it started back then for me, it was kind of like intrigued with the shapes of the figures and stuff like that. And then from there, from that moment, again, it's like it's it's so embedded in in in interweaved and stuff.


You know, I was there when Pokémon was incepted. You know, it's kind of like the common cards, huh? Were you were there in Japan?


No, no, no. Like I mean, the introduction of Pokemon as a kid. I was one of those kids from that to realizing the Power Rangers was a Japanese franchise, you know, like all of that was like it would just be swirling around and at different points, you tap in and be like, oh, wow, of course, that's Japan. Oh, that's Japan. And you get older and you like, of course it's Japan.


And then, you know, they're jazz heads to over there.


Oh, for sure. For sure. And yeah. You see the connection. You see the connection. Yeah. And you go over there. Do you spend time there.


Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's kind of like.


It's my happy place, to be honest with you. I go there and, yeah, I go there and just completely turn into a Japanese schoolgirl and then yeah, no.


One that the Tokyo what albums out on Tokyo.


That song Drunk, I think. Oh yeah. That sounds like a pretty, pretty good night. Yeah. Yeah. Restless nights in Tokyo and. Yeah.


Yeah I had some wild moments in Tokyo.


Oh God. Oh my God. But it's, it's like. So all of that kind of going in and around and then like, you know, my first introduction to anime was like the cognizant introduction to anime I used. The one job I ever worked was at a comic store called Collector's Paradise.


And it was what it was my summer job when I when I said, that's here. Right? Yeah. Collectors paradise. I'm pretty sure it's all around the states. And yeah. And I worked there when I was around between the age of 10 and 14 or something like that. Know my grades were really good and I didn't have anything to do in summer and I wasn't practicing. I wouldn't practice 24 hours a day. So my dad was like, you got to get out and do something.


So I would go work at the comic store. Yeah, I would work at the comic store. And they would like let me bag and board comics and I make sure the displays were right and make sure steel and stuff, you know, they would have to make sure I wasn't stealing stuff. And then, um, but like one of the first things I remember they got when they got a TV in the in the in the in the store and they would play like an old crazy Korean horror films and they were playing anime.


And I remember seeing Fist of the North Star in Streetfighter first. And I remember Streetfighter was so cool as an anime.


I was like I was like, whoa, this looks insane. These characters. This is insane. And I remember maybe maybe somebody in the store was like, oh, you like anime?


And it was like, you know, oh, OK, that's that's what this is. And then here comes the flood of Pokemon, Dragonball Z and all this other stuff. And I'm just like, oh my God, I love anime, you know?


So you and then you became anime radicalized. Yeah.


I mean, and I've been the same every since it quite it's so funny that like those moments where I imagine that it was similar when you first heard JoCo or you just sort of like yeah, but yeah, it was like it put me on my put me on my ass, you know, it was kind of like, whoa, you know, and yeah.


Again, as an illustrator or you know something, I do wish I went to school for illustration because it's like that's the I've been drawing just as long as I play baseball and I but I just don't have as much discipline in it. Um, it's one of those things where it's like the and the illustrator and me and like the that part of it would be like oh my gosh. Like oh you know, like. Big man, like it was just a it was just it was it was a it was intense, you know.


Yeah, I get it.


It's all loaded up. There's a there's a whole, like, the style of anime, even though it's not my thing or I don't know enough about it.


It the it definitely has it seems a bit more sort of sexual than just regular Marvel stuff.


Oh yeah. No, I feel like in in anime a lot of the times they don't, they don't limit it to, you know, this whole idea that it's a child's thing. It's kind of a thing where it's like now this is this is an adult and child world. And it's like just like in reality like these this is also reality, you know, and you get sucked into the credits and stuff into the communities around anime because that seems to have gone kind of bad.


Yeah, no, no. I just I would just watch cartoons. I literally like I would just be watching cartoons. Not like I'm not one of those guys that likes to discuss it unless it's on with another anime nerd, you know, it's like. Yeah, like.


So this Gramin in the Grammy nomination is how do you are you excited?


He must be excited. It's pretty trippy, man. Like, I you know, I'm excited. I'm definitely like, tripped out.


I'm kind of like, whoa, you know, like, cool.


What is the category progressive Ourimbah I think.


What now who who else is in that category? Janaya, AECO, Khloe and Haley, genetical Khloe Haley, the free nationals. Wow.


No, like, you know, you can't like that. You've got there's a whole group of you and your own different ways that have sort of entered this unchartered territory of music where they, you know, like even you can't label it. You know, it's kind of interesting.


Yeah, no. And I'm I'm really excited that, again, it's like it's all family in there, you know, for the most part, the free that's like, yeah, those are my brothers. Like for real. For real. And so it's an agency is like she's like family, you know. Oh yeah.


Right, right. Sure. Of course. And I guess Beyonce has been nominated in that category before word.


OK, there you go. So it's a little more so that it's not like it's out of the mainstream, you know, in a sense. Right, right. It's it's still meets and meets, you know.


Well, I wish you all the luck, man. It was great talking to you. Man, thank you for thank you for having me. I really appreciate you. Yeah.


Man, you know, I hopefully will have a better year. Sorry for your recent losses. And, you know, time does make it a little easier, buddy.


Yeah. All right, man. Take care of yourself. Thank you.


Thank you, man. All right, that was Thundercat, fucking brilliant musician and kind of a, you know, a what would you call it? This guy is a real nerd in a good way. Beautiful nerd man, amazing bass player. The album is called It Is What It Is. And and the musicianship, musicianship and songwriting is great to have that guy. Just remember, fascism is bad and we're in fucking trouble. God bless America. Here's some guitar.


Don't get the plague. Boomer lives monkey in the fanda and cat angels everywhere, and I fucked up right at the end there, I just fucked it up just right at the end there. But we're going to leave it.