Hi, I'm David Fariha, and we're about to tackle one of the big ones, the Moby Dick of conspiracy theories, it's just there alongside hidden alien spaceships, that Area 51 and faking the moon landing.

And it speaks to the very fabric of the United States and what the government is telling us or not telling us. It was November 22nd, 1963, just after eleven thirty am President Kennedy and his wife Jackie land in Dallas on Air Force One.

Their motorcades waiting. Their plan was to drive through Dealey Plaza shortly after midday before arriving at the trade march where Kennedy would give a speech. They get a bit behind schedule, though, thanks to Kennedy stopping first to shake hands with fans and then to speak to a nun and some kids. Eventually, though, just before twelve thirty pm, his limo enters Dealey Plaza. A minute later, his limos on Houston Street driving towards the Texas School Book Depository.

But as the limo turns onto Elm Street, shots ring out, how many shots depends on what witness you talk to. Some hurt, three others hurt as many as eight. Kennedy is hit and he turns towards his wife alive and shot. Then he's hit a second time taking off a great deal of his skull. You can see Jackie trying to pick bits of it out and it's all just awful to see, even six decades later. Here is a bulletin from CBS News.

The first reports say that President Kennedy has been seriously wounded by this shooting.

Texas Governor John Connally is sitting in front of Kennedy and Jackie next to his wife, and he's hit as well.

Meanwhile, police follow the sound of the gunfire and rushed to investigate the Texas School Book Depository Building, where they run into Lee Harvey Oswald.

He tells the police he works there, so they let him run off. And at 1:00 p.m., President John F. Kennedy is pronounced dead at Parkland Hospital from Dallas, Texas, apparently official President Kennedy died at 1:00 p.m. Central Standard Time. Quarter of an hour after that, Oswald shoots and kills Officer J.D. Tippit. He's arrested not long after this.

And later that night, he's charged with murdering a police officer and with murdering the president of the United States. Things got crazier. Two days later, a live TV crew is broadcasting Lee Harvey Oswald being moved by police, apparently shot Oswald shot.

Absolute panic here at base for the Dallas police headquarters where the alleged assassin has just been assassinated by nightclub owner Jack Ruby live on television for millions to see.

Oswald is rushed to Parkland, dying in the same hospital. Kennedy died in just two days before both Kennedy and Oswald have their funerals the next day. Two years later, the Warren Report is published assuring the American public there was no conspiracy to kill Kennedy. Lee Harvey Oswald was the only assassin that day. He and he alone fired three shots.

The fatal shots that ended President Kennedy's head and throat were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald on the Texas School Book Depository, acting solely by himself. There was no conspiracy, either foreign or domestic.

Fifteen years later, the House Select Committee on Assassinations released their report saying maybe it was a conspiracy. And we've been arguing ever since. Which brings us to now 20, 21. This is the JFK episode. Hmm. David, David, how dare you? There's a lot of crazy, isn't that going on? I mean, just in the world there is, but you look at JFK and you realize things have been crazy for a long time.

Sure. True. Yeah, we I think we egocentric.

We always think we're living in the craziest times or the ones that are most certain to end. Yeah.

And it's always been that way. And it's very easy to forget. And when I was looking at this week's topic, I was just like, yeah, it's always been that guys. It's always been nuts. Yeah.

I'm how are you both. Are you well. Yeah. How are you. Well, DAX is recovering from surgery.

I hadn't had one in a few months, so we thought, let's get in there and run around a little bit to maybe take a bone graft this time to see where we're at.

Oh, it's fair enough.

And then I have this cute little accouterment now, a little port in my arms, but my antibiotics. And so it's a good look.

I look I look virile. You look it's a beautiful look.

You look futuristic, a little tap into your arm. I hope this is the future that we just all live with the port and they've created the designer drug. That is, there's no downside. And then just the perfect mix of euphoria and optimism.

I don't have one of those in my the only drama I can report with sort of had a little tsunami in New Zealand, but it's all fine. We're all fine. And we went down into sort of a mini covid lockdown here in Auckland again for a while. So that mix with the tsunami, it's kind of been an action packed week, to be honest.

Yeah, yeah.

But it sounds also like kind of an anticlimactic action packed week. So the tsunami, when it did come to shore, what do we what was the rise in sea level?

Some little waves hit the shore. It wasn't a big deal. It was it's always the panic leading up to it. That's the problem. And I think because we're in lockdown as well, there was some worry about social distancing versus fleeing your homes in case you get flooded. So it was like two disasters at once.

If that happened here in America, there is some section that currently would rather die in their house from a tsunami out of fear of getting covid.

Yeah, I think I think you're probably right. I think you're probably right. It's funny, I and thinking about JFK and getting that introduction together, I realize this is a topic where I feel like I'm just being swept away and just so many theories and facts. So this could be a ten hour episode.

Oh, because I did a JFK tour in Dallas years ago for tourists and met this guy Robyn, who gives these amazing too is of the assassination or Mérida, as he calls it, from his point of view.

Oh, of the route that JFK went on. And he's got an old Lincoln convertible and it's beautiful. And he two is along because he's a he's a researcher. He's a historian, you know, is a conspiracy theorist. Yeah.

He wears a lot of hats.

He was a lot of hats, but he's been researching JFK for a really long time. And I thought it would be quite good just to talk to him about his take on things because he's like the conspiracy theorist. And so I thought I could talk to him.

Did he remember you? And you got a hold of him like, hey, I shot a TV show, you're on it. Was it memorable for him?

Yeah, it was, because he was quite nervous to do it. He's very Texan and very reserved. He runs a funeral home on the side. So that's his main occupation, is running a funeral home. And then he does these JFK to his like as an extra job on the side.

Wow. He's into the micawber. Yeah, he is. But it's funny because when we were filming the show with them, he was really nervous about what we'd put in. And he was one of the few people that wanted sort of approval and like to see what we were going to put in. And now you go to his website and it's all over his website. So I take it he liked being in there.

Well, funny enough, I was just listening to I think Radiolab did a history of Candid Camera.

And one of the funny interviews in it is a woman who has written in to complain about how distasteful the show is. And then they they want to ask her about why it's so distasteful. And she lists all the reasons. And then he says, well, would you be willing to have this opinion put on live TV across America?

And she said, yes, yes, I watch this.

What do you like everyone's innate desire to be famous yet? It was just really, really funny and ironic.

Yeah, well, I mean, part of the joy of I think filming in America is everyone kind of does want to be famous. And it's the opposite to New Zealand, where everyone's so shy and no one wants to be on camera was I feel like every American is born just with the innate need to be on screen, which is great when you're making something a thousand percent.

I don't think I have a single friend that hasn't envisioned themselves on TV, but what is the distinction in his mind between a murder and an assassination? I thought any famous person that's killed is an assassination.

No. Yeah, I think he thinks assassination is linked with the idea of like one lone shooter going out and assassinating someone, whereas he sees it as a really cynical murder. Of his favorite president, you know, and he's just so passionate about that, and when I went in to meet him a couple of years ago, I was really skeptical of him because, you know, I've watched JFK. I know the theories, but I was skeptical of, like, meeting a JFK researcher.

But, you know, the first thing I talked to him and maybe we should listen to that now is just how he got so obsessed with JFK, because it is an obsession like he literally gives six hours to is in this car. So this is how Robin got into JFK.

If I give you my perspective of November 22nd, sixty three, it's through the eyes of a nine year old and the fourth grade. That experience I was having, it was a very primitive experience. My class came back from lunch.

Our teacher was called out of the room when she came back and she was sobbing. She had been given the news and soon everybody was sent home. Now, that was the experience for every kid in America. And then my experience over the next few days was just noticing that every adult in my world was sitting around a black and white television.

This picture has just been transmitted by wire. It is a picture taken just a moment or two before the end.

So as far as November, twenty second, sixty three, that's the extent of my memories when I got personally involved in investigating and solving murder was in the fall of nineteen seventy three. Ten years later and a movie was released that fall on the 10th anniversary. And this movie was the executive action.

Don't make your decision until you see executive action, possibly the most controversial motion picture of our time.

This was cutting edge because nobody was questioning the Warren findings at that time. What are the Warren findings? That one man acted alone with no assistance, which is a mythology that was created by the perpetrators of the crime. And if you questioned the mythology that one man acting alone murdered Kennedy, then you were considered a conspiracy nut. So who would want to be known as a nut and I walked out of the theater not having been invested at all in this story, I was 19 years old and my reaction was I've been asleep for 10 years.

And that propelled me to become the pitiful creature you see in front of you now.

So he's very self-aware of what he is and what he looks like to other people.

But he's so knowledgeable about this counternarrative to what the official story was at the time.

I mean, honestly, whether there was one person or twenty six people, like it doesn't change at all. The real important thing, which was this great president was killed and he's dead and he's not coming back to me.

It's it really makes me think of, like, the difference between if you're your father dies at thirty nine of coronary failure because of his diet versus if he dies at thirty nine because of a terrorist attack, like those things feel so different in your head, but they're not.

The reality is you don't have your father anymore. That is the focus. That's what's relevant.

I'm happy to believe Lee Harvey Oswald did it on his own. There are guys that are that good of shot. There's dozens of them in the military.

There's people who shot people from 1500 meters. That is a mile. They can shoot someone. But again, if there was three guys have to do during their preparing lunch, what does that matter?

Yeah, I mean, the fact is we're all walking around in the same world and it doesn't affect Robin's day or my day or your guys day in any way at all. But I guess the counterargument to that is that it paints this huge portrait of whether the government is telling us the truth or not and whether we can trust them with that and with anything because we can't trust the government and the Warren Report on who killed the president, how can we trust them on anything, whether it's like covid or do aliens exist or any of these things?

I totally agree with that. That is actually not my point. I'd like to put a distinction around what you just said and what I was saying. So, yes, if there was a state involvement, that's completely relevant. But whether the state involvement employed two people, three people, seven people or one person who gives a fuck. Now, what's interesting is, yes, did Russia fund this? OK, that's interesting. To Germany fundis. Did the CIA fund that?

That's that stuff's legit.

But the number who cares? Yeah, the details involved.

And you hear Robin and other researchers like him talking about like skull fragments and entry wounds and exit wounds. It is just this all consuming thing. And I guess you could say the same for people that are digging into any conspiracy theory, including the ones that have come up recently, like it's fun exploring, like every little stupid detail and you feel like an expert and then you get invited to give talks on it. And it creates like this life for you almost.

And I mean, he's got this whole tourism business built around his expert knowledge of JFK conspiracy theories.

So it's like a lifestyle choice almost.

I think there's also more global human thing, which is like why someone would kill this beautiful man defies understanding. So it's almost smoke and mirrors, like a if I can understand every aspect of it, every single bit that went into the sausage, I will then understand how this could have happened. But I don't believe that can be answered like the sad, unfortunate, tragic. This should never have happened. How could this have ever have happened? Won't be answered in those details for me.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaking of Oswald, we know is this guy who defected to the Soviet Union and fifty nine, again, I can't imagine being obsessed with this topic, but had it happened in Milford, Michigan, I bet I would really be obsessed with it.

Like the notion that the president came to his city and it happened in his state. I do imagine that gives it some more significance in your life. Yeah.

And I guess when locations are mentioned, like the School Book Depository, you know, you know exactly where that is. And you've driven down that underpass before. So it all hits. So the rest of us are kind of like, oh, who cares about the grassy knoll?

If you like, walk there every other month, then you probably do care about that stuff like it hits you in your soul as opposed to just your brain.

Also, like, how could this happen is one question. We all experience that. But how could this have happened in my town?

There's like another craziness to it. And there's so much craziness to this as well, because like what's so amazing about this is that it was caught on film. Like, you can watch this assassination on the spirit of film as many times as you like.

And I think it was souls now that added up. I think it's worth about sixteen million dollars. That's how much the government paid to put it in the archives. So it's a very expensive short bit of film. But not only that, also caught on film live was the assassinator. Oswald being assassinated by Jack Ruby. And I want to talk about that later, because the fact that was broadcast live a couple of days later, it's outrageous like this.

So much crazy timing around the story that gave us so much footage.

It was one killing away from. A Simpsons episode like if Ruby had been shot on his way into court by a stewardess totally and just so much crazy timing. And the thing is this, like if things had happened slightly differently, the entire time, lines would have gone in different ways, like the timing that Oswald left the School Book Depository like it was seconds different. He probably would have been caught then and Officer Tippit would end up being killed. This is so much crazy timing that had to be perfect.

The fact that Jack Ruby, who kills Oswald, just wandered into the police station 30 seconds before Oswald appeared and it was just like, oh, there he is, my it's crazy shit.

But I just want you to hear about the alternate version of Oswald from Robin, because I found it really fascinating. Who is Oswald?

He's an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency, and he has been since 1959, Oswald, more from being a Marine to going into intelligence work in nineteen fifty, that Oswald was never a communist. Oswald never hated America. He was a patriot. And our government sent Oswald to Russia. He was trained by our government to go to Russia and be a spy and that our government returned Oswald to the states in 1962. Oswald is working in that building because one of the people above him in the CIA told him to apply for a job there.

He had been working there about six weeks. Oswald's in the building. He had nothing to do with firing a rifle at the president. As a matter of fact, Oswald did not fire a rifle that day. And the FBI knew that by Friday evening. By Friday evening, this is November twenty six. The FBI knows Oswald didn't fire a rifle that day. They performed a paraffin test on Oswald at Dallas police headquarters. He failed the paraffin test.

But if a person has fired a rifle in there, given the paraffin test, gunpowder will show up on their face. Oswald failed the test. The FBI knows that by Friday night, which means he's innocent. But the FBI agents that performed the paraffin test on Oswald, their boss, J. Edgar Hoover, is one of the conspirators. And it is Hoover that is determined to create the lone nut mythology.

And he paints he paints a real picture. He's so passionate about this and he get so wound up about this whole lone gunman reality when you're listening to someone like that.

And he's very authoritative when he speaks and he's very persuasive. So I'm thinking, oh, what part of this is is the facts and what part is.

Yeah, what's proof. Yeah. Just really quickly, the paraffin thing, does he does he deny that he shot an officer on the way up?

Yeah, he denies killing an officer and killing the president. OK, he sort of just blankly denies everything. And I actually was reminded of a fact about him, which I'd completely forgotten about. In April of that year, he tried to assassinate US Major General Edmund Walker.

So then he found out about this after he had killed the president and then they investigated him more. So he tried to assassinate someone before.

This wasn't you know, he was he really was known for not being a big fan of America.

Where's the evidence that he was in the CIA? Did Oswald say that?

Honestly, it's so complex to get into, but it's like a whole lot of disconnected sort of ideas and maybe being connected up into various supposed truths when they're really not. But, you know, he took a lot of trips around the world. He was off to Cuba. He's off to Mexico, is off to different embassies. And depending on like how you read into that depends on what theory you come out with. Hmm.

I'd be remiss if I did not mention and remind listeners that our good friend Gordon Keith owns.

Oh, yes. Bathtub. That's right. Yeah. Oh, really?

What about that? Yeah. In fact, we probably should have connected. We should because he's really into it.

He's really into he's from Dallas and he owns Lee Harvey Oswald's bathtub. So that's neither here nor there. But if you if you listen to the show that might tickle your anus. Wow.

You know, I love that. I love that. I love the idea of bathing in his bath. What is the real thing? It is. It's intimate.

So, yeah, it's hard when he's talking because, man, it all sounds factual, but but Monica, I think what's happening with the CIA thing is he was in the military and then he did defect and he went to Russia. So they're saying, well, that part's definite.

That part's true. That part is absolutely. And they're saying, well, that was a common thing for the CIA to have spies do so.

And that is true. So one thing is true and the other thing is true, but that does not mean these two things together are true.

A lot of assumptions being made along the path. Yeah, yeah.

The main thing I think that put Robert on this path and it sort of convinces a lot of people is that it's this old rifle, it's about action. And to be able to get off like three pretty good shots in that time, in the time it took is just it's a it's a big chance. So I think that's what kind of catches out a lot of people. Yeah. I want to play you Robbins' take on actually what happened, because it's like an action film, like how good is that day instead of one shooter.

This is utter madness, OK?

You're saying that the president is waving everything's fine, and then suddenly he grabs his throat.

Where did that shot come from? It came from in front of the president, below the president, towards the triple underpass. How do I know that? Because the doctors at Parkland said this is an entrance wound in that moment, that they're getting their hands on Kennedy at twelve thirty eight at Parkland.

They know this is an entrance wound. So the first shot that we see him react to came from in front of the president was that shooter behind the picket fence.

Did that shot them from the triple underpass?

Either way is fine. The shot came from in front of the president and below the president. The next time we see something happening, we see the governor of Texas, John Connally, hit and he falls into his wife's lap.

The bullets that struck Connally all came from behind the car. What's behind the car? There's a shooter in the sixth floor window. There is a shooting team of mobsters on the second floor of the now takes building. Connally's wound came from behind.

OK, let's go back to common sense if the back right of Kennedy skull is blasted out, where did the bullet come from that caused that? Well, we know where, but sometimes we're afraid to admit it. This is an exit wound. Watch the Zapruder movie. What is the president doing at the moment of that red halo in on Jack? But he's facing west towards the grassy knoll or the triple underpass he's facing west. The surgeons at Parkland see there's an entrance wound in his right temple.

That bullet came from in front of him. Where was the shooter behind the picket fence? Was the shooter hidden on that triple underpass either? Location is fine for me.

He gets so wound up about this single shooter. He's just like trying to fill in those gaps that make it work for him. And I am reminded what you said it is that thing of like doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

You know, this is paralleling 9/11 a little bit in that people don't like the physics of how the building fell. And again, that's assuming they've seen the building of that size fall and they're comparing it to that. But we've not seen a guy's head blow up like that in a moving car.

And I think they're just assuming that they know how it was supposed to go a little more than maybe you can know how it's supposed to go. I understand ballistics. I understand that a bullet makes a smaller wound at the opening and then it flattens out inside the body and then rips a bigger hole out the back.

But was his head turned a little bit? I don't know. And that's the details that people just get so obsessed with. And you're right, we saw this with 9/11 as well, that the littlest detail becomes a 40 page monologue about one specific thing, and you end up with a scenario that potentially makes even less sense than the idea of the being a single shooter in my mind.

Well, when he threw out there's mobsters on the second floor and there's a team of shooters on the sixth floor, and then we got a lot of characters. Characters can't keep secrets for 60 years. It can't be done. A guy can't cheat on his wife without telling people at the bar like nothing can be kept a secret unless one person did it.

No, and again, like mobsters, probably like some of the worst to, like, keep quiet about things, you know, like let's just loose lips sink ships.

It's like it's an impossibility. So but I mean, I just I love how passionate Robyn is about it and how he's dedicated his entire life to this particular conspiracy. And it's amazing that we're still talking about it all these years on. I think we're going to be talking about it until the day we're all dead.

I guess to I should own my biases at the beginning of this, as if, like, we're talking about a company and I own stock.

Yeah, yeah. Be honest. I don't have an opinion about this. I haven't decided. I think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter. I haven't decided whether I think it was solely love for Russia, not CIA involvement. I had a position on 9/11, which is I believe it was al Qaeda. I think they're the ones who did it and that's that. But I don't I don't even have one on this. I'm just more hung up on the mechanics of the theories that are seem less plausible to me.

How about you, Monica? Do you have any take or are you just kind of like, oh, does it matter?

Well, no. I think it does matter if the government has hired people to kill the president. I think that's a huge problem.

That's problematic. Sure, it is. Very yeah, it's not great. So I understand feeling like, if that's true, that that needs to be exposed. So I get it. But I don't think it was the CIA. I think there are just other things you can do besides killing a person to get what do they want? What do they want him not to be president? What would their motivation be? Oh, to kill him.

I think one of the theories is he wanted to get us out of Vietnam. The CIA wanted to stay in Vietnam. He was going to take a less harsh approach to dealing with the Red Scare in the CIA. Of course, one of the very militant approach just feels like killing him.

That's so extreme. Well, in what I like, you're pointing out to not just killing him. Let's even say that was the best way to do it. So many people got to be involved, the CIA, to get that done.

But beyond that, why are the fucking picking a moment that's going to be filmed with seven thousand witnesses like the CIA wants to kill you? The guy is alone. He drinks from cups. They could poison the poison. Could women do easier ways that are far more controllable?

I mean, this would be like if they waited to catch Osama bin Laden while he was in a parade instead of his house. You just that would not be the plan.

Yeah. It's so public effect I really like about this is that there are one hundred and forty witnesses. They questioned one hundred and four people that had heard the shots trying to piece together like where they came from in front behind the School Book Depository.

Celtics. Oh, this downticks building all of this. So I love that fact. Yeah.

You can't even trust someone's eyewitness. How could you trust someone's earwitness? That makes that's not helpful.

Yeah, I agree. I've been in that intersection. There's tall buildings all around. It's echoing you're in. Then you're asking someone, well, did it come from the left?

Was it six o'clock. Was it twelve o'clock was you know. Yeah, come on.

And initially, like, people didn't realize it was gunfire. Like it kind of was like life is normal for a moment because people weren't expecting that to happen and it's so unexpected. So you to be able to get an exact memory of when you hear a sound from after the fact, it's not going to be particularly reliable.

Now, my first thought would be, oh, fireworks are accompanying the celebration. Yeah, that makes sense. We got the big honchos in town. Let's pop off some starbursts.

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Another of my favorite things was there was a guy there pictured with an umbrella. You can see him in the spirit of film and that was like a big mystery, like, why do you have an umbrella on such a beautiful day? It must be a mystery. And so the conspiracy theory is it was actually a dart gun, which he fired from the umbrella, which froze the president and that lit Lee Harvey Oswald get his shot, has killed, shot.

And because he was paralyzed like so, they've borrowed that from the penguin in Batman. That's literally where they got that idea. I mean, there's so many wild theories and it's all it was.

He was there to protest. He was just there to be in a hole with his umbrella to put out.

He was just there to be a pest. Mm. Oh, wow. The other part of this whole JFK thing that I really love that I don't think gets talked about enough is the murder of Oswald by Jack Ruby, this nightclub owner. Because the fact that you've got someone, a man who's assassinated the president, there needs to be a trial about all these questions. Why did he do it? Was there a conspiracy? Did he act alone with other people for him to suddenly just be killed when the police knew that there were death threats that had come in, and yet somehow they left him that exposed on live TV for Jack Ruby just to wander in and kill him.

That, to me, is almost madder than the assassination.

I agree. Although people are weird, people make stupid decisions because they want their police department on television. And, you know, there's weird motives for these kinds of things.

And maybe back then they weren't us on top of it now.

Well, I wanted to figure that out. And I feel like I spent so much time talking to Robin and he certainly had a very conspiratorial side. But Dan Abrams, who's ABC's chief legal analyst, he's got a book coming out called Kindies of INJ. And it's all about Jack Ruby and the Jack Ruby story. And so that's like the first thing I said to him was like, who was Jack? And like, why did he do this? Like, what went down?

Do people think he was a part of the conspiracy? Like he's also CIA? Oh, yeah.

The person that silence the killer, he was definitely part of the conspiracy. When some people think, like the mob was involved in the killing of JFK because of various machinations. Of course, when Jack Ruby, who had sort of links to mobsters. Absolutely part of the conspiracy. But this is Dan who's like the opposite of Robin. He's like Robins Ying to his yang almost. And this is what he said. The FBI had warned the Dallas police they've gotten calls, people threatening Oswald's life, so they went to all of these efforts to protect Oswald.

They changed the cars that they were going to use to transport right beforehand. They had a decoy. There were all these things that they were doing. And yet their Jack Ruby literally walks in the back entrance to the police station when a police car is coming out. And Ruby knew a lot of the cops. So it wasn't that unusual that he was hanging around. But he just walks in and then literally a minute later, Oswald comes out. It was just terrible security preparation.

I mean, look, if you're a conspiracy theorist, you will say that you think the police might have been in on it. But I think in the end, you probably just have to view Jack Ruby as someone who, yes, liked Kennedy very much, but was a tough guy, hothead. And that's the key to understanding Jack Ruby. He's a guy who has an explosive temper regularly here at his clubs. He served as his own bouncer, you know, throwing people out of the club, if they were misbehaving, cetera, regularly got in fights.

And so if you view it from that perspective that he just becomes enraged seeing what he described as Oswald smirk and he pulls out his weapon and shoots and kills him and thinks that people are going to treat him like a hero.

Hmm. I really loved that illustration that was just painted for us about Jack Ruby. I think I like this guy. He's the bouncer at his own club.

He's mixing it up all the time. He's walking around strapped. This now reminds me of the conductor of the train.

Remember when I asked, do you think in this person's mind they thought they were going to go to prison or did they think that their goal was so righteous that they would be exonerated?

And I have to imagine this guy thought that he couldn't have possibly been deciding to trade his life for his in that moment.

Totally. And I think he did think that he would be treated as a hero. And a lot of people probably did think that. But he weirdly, officially, he had a heart attack in prison, I think, and ended up dying innocent because he got convicted. There was going to be a retrial. So technically, he died and convicted, which is pretty amazing when he's been caught on camera killing someone.

OK, that's like the way an American justice system, right?

Oh, wow. Yeah.

That reminds me of the Robert Durst trial where he fully acknowledges he he cut up the body of his neighbor and put the bags in the ocean. But that in no way means he was a murderer and got off. So what was the time frame from when he shot Lee Harvey, who never good friend, owns his bathtub? I just want to keep making that point from the time he shot him to when he had the heart attack, how long was that?

He went to prison and he had the heart attack in prison like years later. So he did serve some real time. He served a little bit of time. Yeah, OK.

And this is a little bit like the bathtub is completely off topic, but again, the time is right to say it. I learned this from my father watching my father die. He was never bested. He got in fights at Costco over the free samples. He got in fights at the gas station. He rarely went somewhere where he didn't have a challenge in a duel. And I was watching him and I said, oh, you're the victim like you in all these things.

But then you lose. And I just want to point out the fact that the guy's heart blew up at a relatively young age. That's the price you pay for mixing it up.

That's my conspiracy theory.

Yeah. No, no, I like that there's a certain, like, poetic nature to that. I like that. And thank you.

I don't know. I mean, it's still hurt a lot of people along the way. That's like the amount of people he hurt versus then is his just desserts.

Yeah, I'm just trying to point out to the hotheads in the audience and the people who like to mix it up, you can't do it because even if you win, you lose. That's what I'm trying to say. That's my service.

Public service. Public service announcement. Yeah, that's that's what I took from my father's passing. And I applied it to my life.

I like that. And I did like how you like nodding and smiling as we heard about Jack Ruby's.

Yeah, I got it.

I got really affectionate towards him, which also now ding, ding, ding. I also felt so affectionate towards Robert Durst.

I don't know what it was, his little Kermit the Frog body and this sad, weird life. I wanted to care for him, even though clearly he's a brutal murder. I still felt sad for him.

My friend's mom actually went on a date. With Robert Durst, oh, wow. Yeah, so like that is always been a fact. That's just amazing how close she got to just as chaos. That terrifies me. Wow.

Wow. So probably not as fun for you to think of him as a Kermit. You're going to take in, say, me.

I mean, I've been fine. It was like the one date. Yeah. But I mean, what I like about that Durst story, like as a documentary, it just has, I think, the perfect ending, because whenever you're making a film, you're trying to make a documentary, you're trying to get that ending. And I can just imagine them in the edit, like sifting through all this crap like hours of audio and then to get that one bit of what you don't want to spoil it.

But holy shit, I doubt there will ever be a conclusion to a documentary that rivals that one.

By the way, Tical. Yeah. Yours is yours. Yeah.

The fact that the subject of your film attends the screening is so weird.

That was amazing. You him turning up to the screening and you're getting his stepmom on camera talking about his upbringing was just utterly surreal. But that's all the best documentaries have completely unexpected endings. Like that's the magic of it. Owsla you wouldn't even bother because it's just so traumatizing to make them.

Yeah, but you're just proceeding hoping some magic happens. And in your case it did and in the sense it did. I mean, you certainly can't plan for that.

No. And this is a complete deviation from JFK. But just speaking of documentary, there's this documentary that's just come out called Stret and I recommend it so much. It's following a pack of stray dogs around and Istanbul and it's just so beautiful and interactions with humans and it's so good. I just I highly recommend it.

S-t are a y. Yes. Stray into a platform. It's on it's on a website. It's all like streaming or the way it is.

I think you jump on the website and watch it. If you search for like stray film, it's everywhere.

And man, I watched it last night. It's so, so good. There's no murders in it, which is kind of refreshing for a documentary.

Well, do they find a corpse at any point? Dogs are good at that. There's no corpses. Oh, it's really are afraid. There's some really, like, beautiful moments, some really sad moments, because it's all observed from the dog's point of view. And like a dog's perspective of humans, it's really cool, actually.

It's so good to have a dog on the Q it's so good.

But speaking of things being filmed, the other thing that Dan Abrams talked about just to get us back on track, is that just how crazy it was that this was on camera? And I just thought I'd share his thoughts with that, with you.

The fact that they had video of the murder. Was a first that you're introducing into evidence in the trial, the event itself on camera, and it also created all sorts of interesting novel legal questions in the context of the trial. But even more so, it was the Ruby incident that was, quote unquote, caught on camera, meaning that for the Kennedy incident, there had to be an investigation there to find Zapruder. They had to go get the tape.

They had to analyze it with Ruby. It was on the news within moments. And there's this guy stepping forward and shooting Oswald shot. He had been shot. Oswald has been shot. There's a man with a gun. And so you would presume that when you watch a guy walk up to someone and shoot him in the stomach, that it's not a complicated trial. There is no question about it. Oswald has been shot and you would be wrong.

This ended up being a very complicated trial. One of the challenges in this case was what was the defense and initially the defense was actually a very strong one, in my view, which was going to be that it was a moment of passion, that Ruby was just totally distraught about the Kennedy assassination. He sees Oswald, he jumps out, he shoots him. If that had been the defense, the most he really could have gotten would have been up to five years in prison and he probably would have been released within a few.

But that's not the defense that they pursued. Instead, they pursued an insanity defense to try to get him completely acquitted, not guilty. And that became quite an endeavor. After the trial, it becomes clear he hated the defense and that he really just wished that they had gone forward with the defense that he lost for a moment.

The lawyer, Melvin Belli, who is really probably the best known lawyer in America at the time, but he was a personal injury lawyer.

He became so famous as a result of this case, he was already very famous. He ended up in the following year being an episode of Star Trek as a bad guy.

And then he actually auditioned for The Godfather for the role that Marlon Brando got oh.

Oh. Oh, my God. Ding, ding, ding. Everyone wants to be famous.

The role of Marlon, Don Corleone, Jack Ruby's lawyer is believable than the 20 shooters.

Oh, my God. I like it. Just it's another reminder of how unlikely everything in the story is from the timing of things to the fact it's all either broadcast live or documented. And the fact that, like, yeah, Jack Ruby's lawyer wanted to go and be like an actor and was an actor afterwards.

But also it is you know, it's just worth reminding because I think now we're more accustomed to seeing videos of horrific events. And this was just the first novel. Yeah, it was the first time and then the last time for a long time.

Proprietory. Yeah. Did Bobby Kennedy get shot?

Was that recorded? I don't know. That's a really good question. And I should know this, but I don't.

And I am reminded now as well that, of course, JFK Jr. is now subject of endless conspiracy theories since he died in a plane crash in ninety nine.

There's conspiracy theories about that. Yeah. Oh, yes. So he is apparently still very much alive and is spotted in the background at Trump rallies.

No, no, no, no, no. He loves he's so handsome. Everyone would we would know if he was alive because everyone would be talking about it because he's so handsome. Well, we were just talking about this.

We were I was trying to, like, figure out Monica's type the other day.

And I said, is it is it like the Kennedys in she lit up like a Christmas tree?

And that used to be what put you off?

Well, he died, OK, but if you so I got good news. I wondered why you seized on this so strongly that it was the attraction to him that he's so handsome.

Yeah, that could be eternal. Monica, your attraction to him, it doesn't have to be it can be rekindled if he's alive.

Yeah, well, I got some bad news for you. And that is the man that everyone thinks is Kennedy now looks very different, weirdly enough.

Yeah, strange.

The weird thing with so they just picked a random guy that looked nothing like him and said, oh my God. Well, what is worthy of the conspiracy and this would be more of a celestial one is the Kennedys have had the craziest luck. Bad luck. I mean, that's the simulation.

Yeah. It's really hard to imagine a family that dealt with more crazy stuff.

I mean, just one after another. Oh, yeah.

And I mean, you can see why, you know, any of them dying still seem suspicious when you look at everything that's come before. So I can see why people treat the plane crash in ninety nine as another conspiracy, but also like bad luck happens, you know.

Yeah. And all of them are so public that we are going to hear about the crazy stuff, whereas most families do have crazy stuff, but you don't hear about it totally.

Another chance thing about the whole JFK situation, JFK was actually talking to his special assistant, Kenneth O'Donnell, just before leaving for Dallas. And these were the words that he said just before he got to Dallas. If anybody really wanted to shoot the president of the United States, it would not be a very difficult job. Obama had to do is get into a high building someday with a telescopic rifle. Now, there was nothing anybody could do to defend against such an attempt.

Oh, my God. He ordered his own assassination right there in print.

That that to me is like, what are the chances of just very specifically talking about the way you're about to die just before it happens? And again, it's just chance it happens in life. Wow.

Is there a theory that he was a part of it? Oh, there will be. Yes, it well, after this absolutely will be OK.

We know the defense. We know their tact, which was insanity, which is, I think, stupid. I think he could have definitely got them off on me. Like finding your wife in bed with another man.

Absolutely. A moment of passion. Yeah. It could be manslaughter or something. Was the prosecution's position that it was premeditated or that he just went there to get a look at this guy and when he saw them, he snapped and shot them. What was their position?

Pretty much just that. Oh, yeah. They weren't even going for premeditated. No, that wasn't their thing. No.

OK, what if part of the defense was when they were trying to prove that he was crazy? They just had, like, witness after witness that had their ass beat by him at the restaurant and they were like, I crazy.

Listen, I just I tipped eleven percent. It wasn't great service. And he came behind the bar.

I do love that he was his own bouncer. That brings me back to I love so, so much.

It's a guarantee of. We do a check up in 10 years and you say, what do you remember about that JFK episode? It'll be the sole thing that I hold on to for life that Jack Ruby was his own bouncer.

I've got one other story that Dan told me about Jack Ruby. I'm going to play at the end. That is better than all of this. It's like thing I never heard.

But before that this is Dan's take on why it definitely wasn't a conspiracy that Jack Ruby as well.

Let's clear this up. The most regular conspiracy that Ruby gets dragged into is that he had visited Cuba in 1959. And there was a well-known mobster who was in prison there at the time. And if you believe that the Mafia was behind this, then you can try to link Jack Ruby through his sort of low level mob connections.

You know, he'd been from Chicago, where, again, he knew some mobsters, but, you know, you talk to the people who really knew him and he was actually more focused on pleasing the police than he was on trying to ingratiate himself with mobsters or the mafia. Look, if there was a conspiracy, right, if Oswald was involved in a conspiracy, that's certainly magnified by many times the chances that Jack Ruby was involved as well. But I view it from a different way.

Having written this book about Jack Ruby, the evidence that Jack Ruby was somehow involved in a conspiracy is almost non-existent.

There's no way of all the people, blabbermouth Jack Ruby, who always wants to be in the center of everything, is going to be the guy who they're going to hire to quote unquote, silence Oswald. And the most compelling piece of evidence as to why Ruby could not have been involved in a conspiracy is that Oswald is shot at eleven, twenty one in the morning. Oswald was supposed to be moved at 10 a.m. They had told the media that Oswald would be moved to 10:00 a.m. So if you are Jack Ruby in your assignment is to kill Oswald.

You're going to be there at nine a.m., nine thirty, certainly by nine fifty eight a.m. when Oswald is supposed to be moved if you are going to be there to kill Oswald. Jack Ruby goes to a Western Union at 11, 17 a.m. to send twenty five dollars to a dancer who worked at one of his clubs who needed to pay her rent. There is a receipt from the Western Union stamped 11 17 a.m., the Western Union happens to be across the street, right down the block from the police station.

Ruby seen the activity. He says that he presumed it was already over. He leaves the Western Union. He goes, walks in and literally arrives with one minute to spare. If Lee Harvey Oswald had not decided he wanted to put a sweater on that day, Jack Ruby probably wouldn't have crossed paths with Oswald that day. Wow. Yeah, just blind luck and a fiery temper, that's probably what it all comes down to. Hmm. Wow.

Wow. It is fascinating. I get why people go down rabbit holes. Yeah. I'm like, intrigued.

Yeah. I mean, of course, the thing that overrides that is like maybe the cops tipped him off. Maybe they let him know when it was actually happening.

That's my theory. It does change the thing like how we think about this, because there's two killings that happen. But you have such a different attitude to each one because you know, the president being killed, you feel different emotionally to that than Oswald being killed, who is already a killer. It's like also like a weird way where you react to those two assassinations. Oh, yeah.

You don't even give a shit. Yeah. For me, I'm like, yeah, OK, cool, good. I'd saved a bunch of taxpayer money and whatever.

I love the point. This is so obvious and true that he is not the guy you're hiring to keep a secret. This guy is a blowhard. He's thrown people all around the restaurant for every minute he fights. He talks about it for two hundred minutes. We know who this guy is. Also, he's probably telling people he's got Mafia connections, but he doesn't. He's a bar owner. A restaurant here. Yeah, totally.

And cozying up to the cops more than organized crime, you know.

Yeah. And he'd been seen many times at the police station. They said he was a regular, whatever that means. Yeah. So not the guy. Again, the secrets part. I just always come back to the like. How are you keeping this secret, Jack Ruby didn't tell anyone in prison in those four years, you know the truth.

And that's the thing like it's human nature. You tell people secrets. I mean, how many times have someone come up to you like a friend and being like, hey, look, I've got a secret. Don't tell anyone about this, but I can tell you that's what everyone does.

And then inevitably, you bump into a third friend two hours later and that friend says, hey, don't say anything. But then you go, oh, my God, he's telling everybody, yeah. I mean, that's the most common experience you have in life.

I think you can apply that to any conspiracy theory, like human nature is just to blab. And that sort of fellow beings can somehow rise above that to keep the stuff secret. It's just not going to happen. We're useless. Yeah. We're not the right species to carry off big world changing conspiracies like it leaks. It does.

You want a cat to do the killing, like they could keep us to think. Absolutely.

Because they don't want your approval. They don't give a shit if you're impressed with them. You know, you're the owner of a new cat, by the way. Those pitchers are getting kinkier and kinkier. I think there's going to be a doc about you.

And that cat soon called Purdy's her per person per herbut op.

You are Venz.

My name is British Blue Kitten, and I'm sort of taking over. So they'll be furious when they listen to this because they are angry that people think I ionis.

That's even more shocking. This isn't even your pet. No, I just hang out with it a lot.

But what I love about this kitten is it's so stupid. Its eyes are so bright.

You can just tell there's nothing happening. And I'm like, it's so stupid. And I love it for that. Yeah.

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The last thing that Dan said was the side story to the Jack Ruby story, and it makes me think that Jack Ruby should be the subject of some amazing feature film. This particular little side plot blew my mind, and this is what he said.

So the world is at the Jack Ruby trial. There's never been coverage like this before. International coverage, people from all over the world are there. There is a jailbreak that occurs at the courthouse.

Where literally seven prisoners take a hostage with a gun made of so that they had put together and they have to end up walking right past all of the cameras as part of the jailbreak.

I couldn't believe it.

I was like I mean, I knew I knew something about the trial. I didn't know about this jailbreak.

And think about the media is all there. So it's all caught on camera.

I mean, in the book, we have a picture of one of the prisoners with this gun being held to the back of a woman walking out of the courthouse.

There were seven prisoners. Five were captured pretty quickly and two of them escaped. So that was the most shocking thing to me about the Jack Ruby trial.

Oh, my God. What do you know, though, I know like every president over a full moon in Dallas and not every like the domino effect that happens since this assassination, just crazy and crazy.

And imagine being those prisoners that are like jailbreaking.

You've come out with this amazing plan of making this fake gun with soap and then you just don't bet on the being a row of cameras live, Brody, because maybe in this street, were there bullets in that soap gun?

Like, why not? You know, bullets just look like a gun. They probably put like and polish all over it to make it black. Oh, my God.

Yeah. And it just made me go, like, you can't write this stuff, right? You can't.

So, OK, now here's where I would say a media circus could work in your favor, because talk about a distraction like light of a distraction.

No one's looking. Everyone's looking at where the cameras are pointing. So if you could you could have probably been riding an elephant through the room and no one would have noticed.

So in that way, genius. OK, I have a new theory. Oh, my God is exciting.

The CIA who did hire Oswald then did hire Ruby and then hired those killed people. Well, you know, convinced them somehow to escape at that time so that Ruby could then escape in the middle of all that commotion. But then he just didn't do a good job escaping it.

Oh, he's OK. That was a recon mission that. Yes, OK.

No, I like that because you're explaining all these events with the one Massada and that it's well played. But Ruby was just too useless to follow through with the whole thing.

Does anyone incorporate that aspect of this story in any of the popular conspiracies that they're not aware of that?

I haven't come across it, no. I think Dan was really surprised when he came across this jailbreak story because it's just like another weird sideline of the main crazy event. But I think, like what you were saying about it being a distraction with all the cameras. I was in Sydney when the first Borat film came out and it was outside the Sydney Opera House and Borat was there.

And the media in Australia had all turned up to film Borat because it was a particularly big deal then. And I'll never forget, there's this photo of all the cameras on Sacha Baron Cohen's character, Borat.

And off to the side, you can see Kanye West just stood there and no one noticed him because everyone was focused on Borat.

Wow. Wow. That's exactly why I married Kristen so that everywhere we walk, they're all staring at her. And I can just, like, pick my nose and fart in public and no one catches anything. Yeah, it is kind of magic.

Just position yourself next to someone who is just so insanely well known that everyone just sort of like blanks out what we're so single vision out and like we're locked on to one thing, like a press conference.

We don't see a jailbreak happening in the background as guys are bumping into you.

We're so basic, like we can't keep secrets and we can't look beyond our small, narrow focus. Yeah, we're so messed up as the human race.

The aliens are regularly embarrassed for us as they watch the circus. Oh, yeah.

Whoever invented the simulation is just being like this is a dumbest simulation I've ever made. Like, they're not going to believe this is real. This is ridiculous.

On that topic, are we going to do a simulation episode? I think we should, yeah.

This will be the first one that that Monacan are fully enmeshed in. Like we could be the people you interview here.

Have you seen a glitch in The Matrix, the new documentary about simulation theory?

No. Yeah, you should watch.

It's from a guy he's made a really amazing documentary about, like crazy theories around a Stanley Kubrick film, The Shining. Oh, he breaks down like big ideas using found footage.

But his latest one is looking at basically people's experiences of having a glitch in The Matrix where our imagined reality glitches, you know, it's pretty persuasive argument for it. So I think we could touch on that.

Oh, that being the first one, we believe. And that almost comes down to that idea. Yeah, that's going to be the breakthrough. It comes down to that idea, though. It doesn't matter. It's like doesn't matter if Oswald acted alone or whether it was, you know, the scale of the conspiracy. And, you know, it doesn't matter if we're in a simulation or it's real, like it doesn't matter.

Well, I can tell you, obviously, hour to hour it doesn't because you can't tell the difference. So in that way, I agree with you in the way it's very disappointing is I'm writing a story about my life and I like the story and I'd be pissed to find out I had nothing to do with the story.

But it's probably good for you to know.

I don't think it's good for us to be like writing this story of our what we do.

We're all that's exactly how we make sense of what we do. We make narratives. But I think a Buddhist would say don't. That that's actually not good for you today. Oh, sure, I think it's ego for sure. Yeah, but I do think it's OK for me to be proud of having been dyslexic and then graduated from UCLA. Like, that's something I like about myself. I tried. I double down. I worked hard.

Now, if I didn't do any of that, I only had dyslexia. They hit a button. I didn't even have it. And it was easy to go to UCLA just so I could have that story.

That's, you know, it just takes away all the pride of any of the achievements any of us have had.

Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. And I guess it depends on whether it's like a preordained simulation or whether within the simulation we still have AI and are capable of still making their own decisions. So while they're not real decisions, your digital self is still making them. So I might not be a loss.

And then one upside is, if you're Jack Ruby, you go, I didn't kill that guy. I can't even take credit for it. That was the role they gave me.

Yeah. I mean, if simulation theory is real, it opens up a real problem for the courts. There's no doubt about that.

But the other thing of like the more I look at I mean, it's interesting talking about simulation theory and we should do an episode on this, but when you look at all the stories we've been talking about, the assassination to Jack Ruby, to all the side stories, like what are the chances that that is actually real life? When you put all those pieces together? It seems very low.

Yeah. Yeah. If you're an odds maker in Vegas and you go, hey, here's our prediction. Next Sunday, president's going to get shot and the assassin is going to get shot. There's going to be a jailbreak. The assailant will have just wired twenty five dollars to one of his employees for, quote, rent. There's a guy unemployed. What are the odds that, you know, if you bet a dollar will pay you two trillion dollars, that should be the odds of that.

But then again, that's the joy of real life. Like, we couldn't have predicted any of it. And I mean, that's part of the joy in it. And I'm always like I've never written like a script and I don't really understand Hollywood very well. But I think when they write amazing plots for films, they must have to, like, always make it less realistic by making it seem more realistic.

Do you know what I mean? Always having to pull it back in it. You wouldn't believe the stuff so often in life because we are in show business, we're in a real life situation. And one of us will say, well, I was directing this. I would be like, that's way too much prop department. Like, no one will believe there's this many eggs on the table or whatever we're always commenting on.

Like when when something poorly dressed or like the plot. I've never the eggs. This is crazy.

Great meme at the beginning of the pandemic. Let me see if I can find it real quick.

Please do. I do like how much you like eggs stacks. You are a big man. Well, you know, it's one of the great heartbreaks of my life is I can't eat them, I'm allergic to them and I fucking love them.

I didn't know that. Yes, if I pound eggs my knee, I have arthritis in my knees, I'll start killing me.

Oh, that's so annoying. It is such a more stimulation. Like they need to give me this little bullshit hurdle, like there's still going to let me be famous and stuff and tall. No, but but we don't want you to be too happy or you want to appreciate it so you can't eat eggs.

OK, here it is. I found it. OK, this one is the writer's room for twenty. Twenty is terrible. You don't put a small earthquake in the middle of a race revolution and a pandemic storyline. Also, you don't just introduce Murder Hornets in the third episode and then do nothing with them. Take a workshop.

Twenty twenty. But yeah that's that's real life. Yeah.

It's so true. Just really quickly as well. I just keep the documentaries as a documentary my friend Michael made about Marada Hornets. It's so good. I think it's just called Attack of the Mérida Hornet and it tracks down these kind of like bumbling but passionate specialists that were called in to find the main big nest of the hornets.

And it is thrilling, highly recommended.

OK, before we go, I just want to it's kind of what Monegasques earlier and I have a very thin knowledge of it, but what is the motive people believe in for this grand conspiracy?

There's a lot of different motives, depending on who you think's involved. But I think generally, like you hit the nail on the head, sort of the main one is that because Kennedy was sort of pulling back from Vietnam, a lot of people in the war effort, helicopter manufacturers, arms manufacturers are going to lose a lot of money. So let's just take this guy out.

Mm hmm. That's the tip of the iceberg.

Honestly, why didn't they kill Jimmy Carter? That's the thing.

Like the KGB, Castro, the CIA, the FBI, they've all got motives that you can invent about why they'd want JFK publicly executed. So it's a rabbit warren.

I'm not going to pretend to understand it all. Yeah, but that's why someone like Robin, the conspiracy theorists, researchers, spent 40 years doing nothing about this and he still hasn't gotten to the bottom of it.

Hmm. I hope he does. Yeah, same.

Yeah, I really do. I do. I hope he has closure in this hour in Dallas, his JFK to it and the limo is extraordinary and he will just talk your head off for hours. He's a really beautiful man, and I don't know if I am with him on everything he says. But as far as tourism to his go, I'd say it is a really good one.

Well, I think you this is where you and I diverge. We have some similar interests and some similar proclivities. But I think your aptitude, your willingness to be captive in a vehicle while someone's talking that to me is paramount concern.

That's really high on my list of things I would really not want to be involved with.

No, you want to be involved. I mean, that's why you're so good at what you do, both of you, that you want to have a conversation. You don't just want to be talked about.

I don't want to be talked to and I don't want to be in something I can't exit.

Yeah, it's too I would feel like your version of Al. I don't want to be a passenger. I don't want to be fucking lectured to. I don't I want to be able to leave places. Yeah, it's I feel like Larry David on this topic.

No, no, definitely. Please don't take Robbins to everyone else. It's probably going to be OK.

You'll love it if you love being captive and lectured, there is no better lecture. Last thing is there's a mafia one too. And is it date all the way back to Jack Kennedy because he was famously a bootlegger?

Now it does. And I'm not going to pretend to know the background to all of that because I actually don't. But yeah, the mafia involvement is all family related.

OK, all right.

Well, I came up with a great theory, the best I've heard yet. So I hope everyone adopts that. Yeah.

I mean, that's it's going to be your responsibility. Once you start getting these follow ups, you're going to have to put up with dealing with them.

Now, do you want to label it something? I think it needs a name.

Get the correct, the correct, the correct one. Yeah, that's right. We'll go. Yeah. Why be obtuse. Call it like it is the correct theory.

I bet you. I bet you all the way. David, we we love you. I wish I did that for you. So you're so pleasurable to talk to and that is consensus.

I'm coming over to America mid April so I'm feeling excited. I mean I've been there before but I am sort of going to be settling in for the rest of the year. So I'd really like some maybe some tips on where to eat and how not to get knifed, you know, that kind of thing. I'd really appreciate Allami.

OK, well, well, arm you up pretty good. Really nice. Turn me into an American. Give me weapons.

All right. I love you, David. I love you guys, too.

Let's talk about the madness in the future. Simulations and aliens and other conspiracies and cannibals. I'm down for it all.

Oh, yes. Bye. You too. Bye bye.