Welcome. Welcome to armchair expert. I'm next. Shepherd. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

Hi, there.

Hello there.

Your friend is here.

My old buddy. My sweet, sweet friend is here, Bradley Cooper. I don't need to tell you about Bradley Cooper, but I will anyways because he's an award winning actor and a filmmaker. He's nominated right now for 15 to 17 Academy Awards for his film maestro. But before that, of course, we have a stars born the hangover, american sniper, Silver Lanes playbook, limitless, you know? Hey, Cooper, what a fucking resume you've put. Know time's just passing, and all of a sudden this list here assembles and I'm staring at it. And what a career he's built.

It's incredible. But you forgot to say hit and run and brothers justice.

Hit and run and brothers justice. Yes, yes. Let us not forget his movie maestro is out now on Netflix. This is my favorite conversation I've had with him in years.

That's great. It was lovely.

Yeah, I really, really just like. I just. It was just very impactful, and I really, really enjoyed it. So please enjoy my friend Bradley Cooper.

He's an unchanged.

I was worried about the traffic, but I'm okay.

Yeah, you did fine.

Yeah.

Tell me about the Oscar luncheon. What happens there? What's that?

Klugman's coming.

Okay, great. Kluggy will be in tow. You mean the voice of t mobile?

That's right. And the creative. The creative nucleus behind it.

Shut up. Panay as well?

Yeah, exactly. You kind of can't beat his voice.

Do you know about his friend Brian Klugman? Best friend since Philadelphia. And he and Panay are partners with nay fun. Yes. And Klugman's in the movie.

Oh, who is he in the movie? I know.

Could we just break muffin for a second?

Yeah, Rob, explain yourself.

So it's espresso with water, and then they have, like, a special whipped cream that they put on top. Who's they? Maru Coffee. Okay.

Shout out, Maru Coffee. Black ops. Whatever. Nate, talk. Who else do we know from over our time together?

Wait, who is he in the movie?

Mr. Amaroso, my cello teacher when I was in 8th grade.

He's awesome in it. Bernstein.

I know. That's what I thought. It's too early for joke.

Sorry.

Okay, so your best friend.

I'm sorry. This is the first thing I'm having all day. No, it's fantastic.

So it's called something, right? Cream top.

Cream top.

Also not a great thing for you to sip just before the photos, because it does look like you just blew an elephant a little bit. Just right.

Yeah, that's what these hands are for.

This has happened a few times. I kind of think you're doing it on purpose. Rob.

What'S going on up there?

What happens before the interview or all over the place?

Back to look at this footwear that's going on.

Yeah, a lot of boobs.

Oh, all three sounds pretty good.

These are from what movie? What movie?

Tv show. A kitchen confidential. These are from 2006.

Wow.

Because I live in New York, but I still have the place here. But all the clothes are from, like.

They'Re just getting older.

Yeah. So I wore these Beneton women's pants I must have worn all the time. Remember those red almost pajama like pants I wore? Sure. Yeah.

Okay. Those were women's.

I got this when I was on a trip with my parents in 1997.

Really? 97?

And they're still holding?

Yeah, I wore them yesterday with the failure to launch army shut.

Oh, my God.

Do you do that too, though?

Yes. I was just complaining about it. I haven't acted in a few years, so I haven't collected any new stuff. And now it's starting to become really apparent, especially if I have to wear a suit, because I'll have had suits made for the game show, but I was one way, so nothing fits me anymore. And I'm not going to fix that. I'm just wearing stuff that doesn't fit now.

Right.

As a rule of thumb.

So everything's way too big or small.

For the last two and a half years, everything was way too small. I would put a rubber band in the little notch and then put it around the button for the neck of the shirt. You follow me? My neck was too thick, and I'm like, oh, I'll just be able to cover it up with the tie. But then I'd pop into the bathroom in the middle of an event and realize the tie had gotten a little loose. And you just see, like, my daughter's braces rubber band. I mean, it's not braces, but friendship. So, yeah, I don't know what I'm going to be looking like in about six years when I continue to not collect any new clothes.

Believe we're 49.

Yeah, baby.

How's it feel?

I actually feel young. I feel, like, younger than I did 15 years ago. But I know it's coming because people in their wait after 50, your body starts to change.

I feel healthy as I ever have. In fact, I was just thinking of you two weeks ago. I'm going to see how fast I can get to the very top of Griffith.

Oh, wow.

And I was remembering you doing that in Vancouver island.

Yes.

And then I was like, I need Cooper. I have no comp. I don't know if I'm doing good or bad. Right.

The fact that you could even do it is the win, I guess. Dude, are you kidding? I haven't done anything like that in years.

Oh, you haven't?

Oh, no, I don't run anymore.

You say thin, though. I was watching you in maestro and I thought you were really.

I got super into maestro for the prosthetic. That was the best thing because otherwise when you would put the stuff on your face, you almost look like a bobblehead. And then after that, I'm like 181. 182, which is great weight for me.

Yeah. Probably the healthiest weight.

Oh, no question.

Our height. Just diet then.

Yeah. And work out. Work out in my bedroom.

Okay.

Like body weight. You might need more clarification.

No, I have prints to the toilet. We see him. A photo of me working out.

My screen.

Video of me working out.

Let me see here.

I'll show you my routine. This was yesterday at nine.

What do you do?

So I have a peloton bike that I used to use a lot. I don't really now, but I like the way it looks.

People know that they're.

And the other thing, the huge thing is this catalyst suit. Do you know about this?

No. Tell me about that.

So this catalyst suit that I was turned onto like four years ago, it's a certain method of working out where it stimulates your muscles through electric.

There's like electropulse.

Exactly. And it's a 20 minutes workout. I've turned so many of my friends on because do you remember when I was doing sniper? My tendons were really sore. I was like, am I going to be able to build the arms up to match my back?

Yes.

Do you remember that?

Well, you had focused very heavily on deadlifting for that.

Deadlifting? My neck. Remember all the neck shit? Yeah. No, because he had this incredible neck and we always wanted to shoot from the back of his neck. Anyway, the suit.

Every other day working out.

Yeah.

You're sweating.

Yeah, it's hard. And the great thing is I just focus on my lower back and glutes, because again, as we get older, that's really the only thing that matters.

Yeah, but you already had the glutes.

I had the glutes, but not the lower back.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you came with glutes into this world.

I did come with the glutes into this world, which I've had a weird relationship with. Sometimes I've hated it, but often I'd loved it because basketball with Dax, surely.

Tennis court.

Tennis court.

Let's be honest, though, where it really shines is the dance floor. That's true. I was just talking to a friend of ours about this. I didn't like my face, you didn't like yours, but I had to build a self esteem.

That's right.

I just honed in on a couple of things I had. That was my first foot forward. No matter what you have to have known, your haunches were so powerful and infectious, especially on a dance floor.

I just loved dancing, so I was shy. But for some reason, get me on that bar mitzvah or bot mitzvah dance floor back up, and I felt like I was in a place of comfort. Yeah, I did.

And the response from gals was that no other boys were dancing. So it was like, finally, I have a fucking.

Somebody's dancing. That's right. Just the fact that we were out there meant a lot.

I try to tell young boys, like, just get out there dancing. You don't have to be good.

No, in fact, it's almost better.

Yes. It just says, I'm a good time.

That's right.

But do you think it works the same for girls if they're not good?

I still like it.

I think at that age, it's just about being out there and moving around.

It's a false flag of confidence, because it takes a lot of confidence to get up and potentially humiliate yourself. So, yeah, even if a Gail's dancing objectively poorly, God bless her look, she's confident and she's moving. That's attractive.

I just think you guys might be a little misunderstood in that you both didn't like your faces, but you had nice ones. Okay, go on, continue.

What specifically was nice about our.

And so the dancing, even if you were good or bad, it was just like, oh, that's cute. Because they're cute.

Thank you, by the way. You're welcome.

And it could be right, whatever the.

Outside perspective is what was going on. And that was one of the many things that we sort of aligned initially is our sense of self esteem.

We were monsters, and physically and all.

These things that we connected to, but that maybe the general populace would be like, what are you talking about? But it didn't matter because it wasn't like this thing we told ourselves. We had a dossier of factual evidence support that.

In fact, and that would refute.

Yes. But in a court of law, we felt like we had a very good case, strong case.

We didn't even need to make a final closing argument. Once we bring the gals up that didn't like us and we get them on the stand admitting, let's settle out.

Of court, we're like, okay, no, we're going to take this all the way.

We feel confident about the verdict on this one.

Oh, can I just say real quick?

Yeah.

They had this incredible weekend in Santa Barbara. They did this film festival and they did a retrospective and they made this montage of all the stuff. And then they showed a thing from hit and. Yeah, yeah.

You and I screaming at each other.

It was like a moment right before that.

You driving tough.

It was so quick. But it was like me looking at you. I think it was right before the fight. Wasn't there a moment where we just looked at each other?

Yeah, because we love each other.

It did look like hate. Oh, and then when we shot the t mobile commercial, the DP did hit.

And, yes, of course, Brad Stone cipher. There's been a lot of hit.

And, you know, because that was the limitless. Oh, and I was watching. We haven't talked in a little bit, but I've been completely turned on by reality television and I'm absolutely obsessed.

What specifically?

Well, love on the spectrum is the greatest show I've ever seen.

Okay. Yeah.

Really? Love the golden bachelor. That was my introduction into that world.

Monica's a big bachelor, but I was.

Just taking in the last season of the Bachelorette. I haven't finished it, so don't tell me. But they were drifting and I was thinking about you the other day.

They went on a drifting day?

Yes.

Oh, maybe I should watch. They've had so many years to try to wrangle everyone.

I can't believe.

Finally adrift. I can't believe they're going to have a bass angling episode or something.

What else can we do?

Belonging.

Love is blind, my lord.

Oh.

Have you watched love on the spectrum?

Yes. The first season I saw several.

We watched some during the pandemic.

I'm new to it all, but.

Wow, it's beautiful.

Do you have a theory on why this is suddenly appealing to you? Sincerely?

It's not a theory. It's just a logistical thing.

It entered your life.

It's entered my life.

Okay. And you can't turn away.

So it entered my life. And I was like, oh, this is the most incredible reflection of human behavior and social dynamics. But love on the spectrum. You're watching these people just move forward with their heart and mind totally open, and they're saying the very thing that we're feeling and never have the courage to say. It's like one date is the equivalent of 40 of our dates.

Yes.

Boom. Let's get right down to it. How are you feeling? How's this going? I think it's going well. I'm feeling this way.

I don't like this. That's what always kills me, is when they're like, no, I don't really like this. The first few I saw, I'm like, yes, dude. It's quite transparent to me why that appeals to you.

Okay.

That specifically because you are always on high alert for the truth. I know where mine comes from. I don't even know that I know exactly where yours comes from.

I think it comes from a similar place.

Okay. Maybe charismatic, deceptive adults.

I think it's about how to survive and understand what's real as a child, what's happening, because there's conflicting signs that portray different realities. How do I decipher what's real so that I can survive? So I'm going to predict what's next.

Yeah. So these folks, you're like, this is it. They're going to tell me, I plan on double crossing you in 15 minutes.

Yeah. It's nuts. I find it very moving.

I struggle with it immensely.

Reality television?

No, I love it. I don't have a show currently, but I've had long periods. I love dating shows where everyone's fucking. I love that.

Oh, yeah. I haven't seen those.

You can watch. Are you the one?

Oh, really? Okay.

Kind of the premise from 2 seconds. So it's 20 people, ten hot girls, ten hot boys. They're on some romantic location, and they're just free to mix and see who they connect with. They've been told that an algorithm knows who their perfect match is. That's the buy in that this computer knows who their perfect match is. So then at the end of every episode, they have to pair off and declare, this is my true love. Basically, only two of them are right. But they've fallen in love. Right. They've been fucking for a week.

Only two of them are right. Meaning to the algorithm?

Yes.

Do we, as the audience, know already?

We don't know. And so they're trying now to figure out which two had it correct and which eight other couples need to do c doe and switch partners.

Whoa.

But people are already in love. There's jealousy. It's like the most money.

Are they all living in the.

Yes. And they're drinking.

What's it called?

Heavily.

Yeah, there's a lot of drinking in all these.

You've got to get everyone hammered. Are you the one?

Do you watch love is blind? No, because all the cups, you can't see through them, so you don't know how much they're actually drinking.

Is love is blind. The one with. They'll show a penis part?

No.

Love is blind is where they meet in pods, I think came out of COVID initially.

I did see that. I did see that.

Okay.

And then they're kind of falling in love with what you would hope they'd fall in love with.

Personality.

Personality, exactly. And then they now get to see each other.

Yes. And they just did love is blind Sweden, which was incredible.

Oh, was there a big cultural shift?

Very much so.

To the degree where there was no more engine in the show. Like, they don't care what each other.

Looks like, just different mannerisms, different way of communicating. But they dubbed it, so I didn't like it because the voice is everything at the end of it. They do the live coming back show where find out what happened and that they hadn't, I guess, had time to dub, and then all of a sudden you're hearing their voices. It was fantastic.

Well, they hate small talk in pleasantries, which I appreciate about them.

And they're all real handsome over there in Sweden.

Oh, my God. Yes. I just met our boss from Spotify and just a run of the mill guy in Sweden, but here he's six, two, broad shoulders. He's gorgeous. Yeah, this guy's just a fucking.

By the way, you look amazing, dude.

Thank you. Your eyes are crystal clear.

Really? We haven't seen each other in person. You look fucking great.

Oh, wow. Thank you so much. Right?

Doesn't he?

Yeah. I mean, I see him every day.

You look so calm and healthy and. Is life good?

Yeah, life's really good.

Yeah.

I've carved out a really crazy, impossibly good thing here.

Yeah, but I mean, just everything.

Yeah, but this kind of then informs. How much free time do I have to exercise? How much free time do I have to drop my kids off at school? It goes backwards from that, of course.

Still playing the drums?

Yeah, getting worse. That's the fucking bummer. But still have it by the children, right underneath. I work out and then I play a little bit, and then I'm like, God, it's weird. I'm getting worse.

Tell me your ritual, the exercise. No, just, like, get up in the morning. Great.

I'd love to. So self indulgent. I talk about all the time.

Oh, you do?

Yes.

So you've given me the blessing. I wake up 2 hours before the kids are up. Well, 2 hours before I got to drive to school.

So five.

No, six. I got to leave the house at eight.

How far away is school?

2 miles. I can do it in about nine minutes if I'm punching.

And what are we driving these days?

We drive mom's electric bolt there, because I can do uturns really good in front of the school and get the spot when mom's using her car. I'm actually resentful. I wake up, I meditate for 20 minutes. Then my reward for that is I get coffee and nicotine. And then I start journaling. I journal one page.

Still journaling. My God.

Yeah. Won't quit. Well, I quit for a minute. I started doing opiates. It turns out they were very linked. And then I minimally have to write a page of prose. So I'm writing a memoir by hand. And then it's poopy time because we've.

Got nicotine and coffee in us.

Yes. And we're hammering that. And then we get on the commode and the girls start filing in. They start chatting with me. And it's amazing. They don't care. Is this a toco commode, Brondel? But same thing. So there's a. Yeah, yeah. I do my posting for this show at that moment, it's a Monday. I put up the guest, and then the girls start coming in, out. And I wonder, is this the same with Leah, where they can sit and talk to me like a foot away from me? And it's terrible in there.

My bedroom is the bathtub and the toilet, the bed are all in the same room.

Yes.

It's twenty four seven.

You can't even walk out of the bathroom.

There are no doors.

And do you find she doesn't care.

Door in my bedroom.

There's no door to the bathroom.

No.

The stairs go up and it's all in one floor.

Wow.

Let it rip. Just move from zone to zone. God, I would love that, actually, because again, I'm moving through these little steps. But do you find that your daughter.

Doesn'T care at all? No, we talk. Where? I'm on the toilet. She's in the bathtub. That's sort of the ghost, too.

I have a great biological question surrounding this. Is it your genes that makes you not care? Or is it just the nurture of it all.

It's insane that they don't smell it. There must be something pheromonal.

Here's what's interesting. I didn't grow up that way.

Right at all. No.

I don't think I ever saw my father on the toilet until he got sick. Like ever in my life.

We can have 100 conversations. I need 6 hours and we got to talk about nudity with a daughter. So it's like we're the swedish style or german. Like we're naked all the time.

Me too. And by the way, I was like that. Not with my mom, but my dad. He was always nude and always took showers with him.

There was no poo evacuation, but showering was fine. Yeah. Okay. And you're quite comfortable nude?

Totally.

Okay. Then I take the kids to school. Then I work out. Then I research or research, then work out one of the two. Probably research first. And then I try to squeeze a workout in. And then we come up here and we.

So two workouts.

No, I said the order wrong. I would always research first because I can't drop that. And then I'll work out. And then we generally record at eleven for the first time.

And meditation happens where? In this area.

Oh, in my bed.

So you sort of sit up?

Yes. If Christmas. Leaving the girls. I can do that. If she's not. I wake up, I make my coffee, I bring it to the other middle bedroom. And then I meditate in there on the bed.

Sitting up?

Yes. And I've added cross legged to it.

Oh, you have?

Me too.

When did this start?

I'm like this.

Yeah, I couldn't do that, by the way.

I know this is crazy.

You do this crazy thing I do.

Because you are supposed.

I feel that there's a difference. It feels like there's not one circuitous.

I got you.

Yeah. It's supposed to be connected at all areas.

Right? Like you're breaking up. Skadoosh. There's something circular about it when you do that. A loop of energy.

That's what it feels like.

I got to add that I sit like this because I feel like it's going in a loop around my arms. Guys. I'm crossing my hands and setting them in my lap.

I'm doing this sort of like touching.

Your ring fingers with your thumb. Yeah.

It's the original position.

The op. Original position.

The thing is never to rest your head against anything.

Obviously. When did you start crossing your legs? Because anatomically I couldn't cross my legs. Three years ago.

I started like this. This is how I used to meditate.

You look like a schoolboy at his listener.

Then I stopped meditating for a couple years, and I think when I started back up, that's how it started. And I always go to the roof in the west village where I live, that's where I sort of try to go.

Even in the winter?

Even in the winter.

Better in the winter.

Well, it's interesting because I bundle up and then there's no chairs there because it's just a 450 square foot little area. And I have a little plot of grass. And you haven't seen it. Yeah, I have the very, very top.

I was in the backyard. I was in the bathroom. Toilet.

Just a tiny little deck.

Okay, lovely. Do you have mats you sit on, though?

No, there's just wood. So I just sit on wood.

So much tougher.

So that's why I had to evolve. Yes, because there was no chair.

I'm so jealous right now because I'm leaning against. Not my head, but my low back has got some pillows behind it.

Yeah. My lower back, there's grass, wood, and then I have the wood on the wall.

Okay, so you're up against a wall. Fuck. Because I was starting to think you were full, David Carrot style. That would be really hard, dude. I know this happens a lot that.

I'll be mid meditation, and I'm down here.

You slowly start drooping into the ground. Yes. I tell myself, you cannot think about this and also lift your head backwards.

That's right. That's what I always do. I'm like, oh, where am. Oh, okay, how did my head get down to my chest?

Okay, is that first thing? You don't have any caffeine before then, do you?

No. So what I do is similar. It's like, all predicated on when do I have to get Leah up? So depending if my mom is visiting from Philly, Leah loves sleeping with her all the way downstairs. And we have three dogs, so first is the dog.

Oh, my God.

The dogs are at 450 to 05:00 a.m. Walk down the stairs. So it's six flights down.

Oh, my God, five and a half. Yeah. No wonder you're not hiking.

You don't need to take them out to the bathroom, feed them, go back up to bed. Try to catch another hour if I can. I always push the limits. God bless our schools. Leah's always, like, tiny, late, and we live a block away.

The closer you are, the harder it is.

The morning ritual is probably my favorite part of the day, and it gives.

You so much self esteem.

Right? Well, I'll tell you why. Because there's a game changing element to it.

Okay.

Hit my knees right away.

Same prayer for the last 23rd step and ten step.

Serenity, our father. And then a list of people that grows really quick.

All this is our isms, right? So it's like we got to meditate. No, we got to sit more properly. No, we got to do this. And then the list is growing.

Yeah. That prayer must take like, it's madness. 45 minutes.

The last year of your life will be making that prayer. And you have to add your name right as you die.

And people have died that were in that prayer.

Sure. And then does it hit you emotionally or no? Sometimes no. Sometimes yes.

I'm always aware of it. Two of them have died.

Is Charlote's name in there?

No, I don't pray for the dogs. That's interesting.

Well, Charlote, I don't think you should pray for dogs, but maybe Charlote.

Yeah. Well, Charlote was like a human.

Yes. Your girlfriend, right?

Yeah. Look at her. No, Dax, look at her. That's a beautiful woman.

I sometimes felt like I was interrupting things.

Speaking of, if I was in a relationship with someone who had a prayer like that, I would be obsessed with finding out if I was in that list.

Sure.

You know what's really nuts is, like, in the 20 years I've been doing it, I think maybe I've missed, like, five days.

Wow. That's great.

Do you have a bit of a superstition, like I do about the journal and sobriety. That's not cornerstone.

But I do feel like there's no better way to wake up and start thinking about other people.

Yeah. Because the rest of the day, I'm going to be thinking about myself.

Exactly. Everything is about.

Yeah. Let's start it off.

Let's get ahead of.

Before we can even find today's obsession, let's make room for some other humans on planet Earth.

But do you worry it will turn into a pathology? Because I used to do a prayer at night, it became bad because if I didn't do it or I was forgetting something, it would become a problem, so I just dropped the whole thing.

There's something about the physical action of getting on your knees and putting your head down on your bed. That physical action alone feels so deferential in a beautiful way.

Again, it might be your only moment of humility.

It really is like to start out like that. It's so part of, like, breathing now I don't really even think about it. That dogs back to bed. And then I put a cold plunge in the basement of where I live.

Dude, I thought you were about to say your bedroom. And I was going to fucking laugh. This is becoming a Korean spawn there with, like, a bed in the corner.

No room to move. So I jump in the cold plunge every single morning for three minutes. And every day, I don't want to do it. Every day I'm in bed, I'm like, I don't need to do it. And I force myself to walk downstairs, and it's cold outside, it's cold in the house. And I'm like, how am I going to do this? And then I do it. Set the little timer on the phone. Three minutes. I'm so happy when the alarm. And then I feel so fulfilled. I could literally go to bed. And that's the end of the day. That's the level of fulfillment I do, too.

But I'm only about three days a week. I have so many God routines in the morning that it's like, I have so similar.

It's crazy.

It's a shocking. We can be friends.

Our birthdays are a month apart.

Oh, our sobriety. Birthdays.

Sorry. Yes, our birthdays. Birthdays are three days apart. Yeah.

Both born deaf.

Just remind us what are the ways in.

Both think we're ugly.

I know. I can't.

Trying to get all the approval in the world. If everyone could line up neatly and just walk up to us and say, you're good, and then turn to the left.

But then don't forget, you got to come back and say it again in ten minutes.

I probably won't believe it. 30 seconds after you left. It'll feel obligatory. In fact, if you could write it out, it'd be easier for me to.

You have that. You're an approval junkie.

Honestly, I think I've grown a lot in the last three years.

That's great. Was there an impetus for that?

Yeah. Getting older and realizing there are certain parts of me that have really needed serious work about intimacy with people, women, specifically. Like being in a real, healthy relationship. And also because I'm a father and I'm like, I just want to. The least amount of damage that I could do to my daughter. Please let me work on myself. And it's all just getting older and people dying and mortality.

Time's accelerating.

That's the currency. That's it.

Yeah.

Nothing but time. And I think being at a place where I felt like I was willing to go to those places, and a dear friend turned me on to this incredible therapist that changed my life and really realizing the problem was I had no self esteem. I think that when I came on before we talked about this, which was years ago now, I think it was not recent.

It wasn't. It was.

You have been promoting. You would have been promoting.

I don't think it was Guillermo movie.

Oh, so it wasn't that long ago.

Yeah. When was that?

2021.

2021.

November 2021. I thought it was more than that. Okay.

Yeah, we're okay. Everything's okay.

It does feel like a long time ago.

I was maybe, like, a year into it at that point, self esteem. And it all stemmed from. I don't know if you feel this, but creating a narrative about my upbringing that wasn't really my upbringing, so I was starting it all on a false premise.

Interesting.

Of, like, I'm from Philly. I thought I was, like, a beautiful kid, and they thought I was a girl and a chip on my shoulder and loving parents. That's actually not exactly the situation. So if you're starting it out, and also, Dax and I connected earlier on about our childhoods to a huge degree and our relationships to our fathers and all this stuff.

Our mothers, of course. We're like our mother's husbands.

Yes.

And we are the golden child that was going to be, minimally, president, but.

I guess that was part of my false narrative to a degree, too. Was that all it was, or was there more?

I'm writing this memoir doesn't need to be published. I'm writing it so I can get that version that I'm so afraid to lose out of my head. It'll be there. If I ever want to revisit it, it'll exist. That's my action of letting it go.

Wow.

There's the story I've been telling for my whole life, and now we're going to just set that over there. And maybe my dad was a beautiful guy, and maybe he was a loving human. Well, and also, like, physically nurturing, a hugger and a kisser who got that in the coming in. That's like. And my mom, I love her to death. She's also not the angel she was in my story.

That's right.

Nor should she be. And that's my fault.

It's not fair to.

It's not her responsibility. Yeah. I have no resentment over. It's just like, wow, I had a really story.

I used to not even knowing it, because that's how the behavior. I just found myself adrift and starting with the real foundation, which, again, let's.

Be honest, is just another one.

Yes.

I might reject the notion that there's a real one. It's just there's all this data. It's an infinite data of your childhood.

Well, it's all a story we're telling ourselves.

Exactly.

That's what one serves you in a feeling state. At least I can tell when I'm more present, when I'm not as a human being in my life. When I started to do this work of reevaluating the foundation of my life and trying to look at it with a more critical eye on honesty and reflecting on true memory, I found that the benefit is I'm much more present in my life. I don't need the things I thought I needed to fill up whatever hole I had. And all of a sudden, I'm willing to be more expressive, creative, present giving. Boundaried.

Yeah.

So, to me, yes, it's another story, but it felt like, boy, it's way closer to something honest because the benefits are practical. Does that make sense?

It totally makes sense for me, I guess the thing I try to be critical of is the story is immaterial. Is the story serving to either excuse my character defects, justify me getting the things I want, or somehow setting up a situation where you'll be even more impressed by me because you know the story. So if the story has these kind of, like, self serving, gross motives, which most of my story does, I'm trying to self aggrandize myself and seem like a victim and a victor at the same time. When I recognize that that's actually the purpose of the story, I think that's more what I'm currently honed in on. I could also tell that I had the luckiest childhood that anyone's ever had. There's enough data points for me to point to these.

Well, relatively speaking, we're already in the stratosphere on that benchmark. But what's the goal? Why are we doing this? And the goal for me was I want to be able to be more of service to people in my life. And then me also. And I wanted to stop living in my head so much, really, so that I could be present, and I wanted to love myself, like, in a real way. And then through that, all of a sudden, boundaries just came up that I could never create in relationships.

What did those look like?

My relationship with my mother.

Completely. Oh, boundaryless. Yeah.

Like, completely. My relationship to friendship.

My daughter. Bed. Your shitter. Your mother.

Three dogs.

Does she respect the bound? Like, does she like that they're.

Here's the thing that occurs. And I don't know if you have felt this with your mother, but it all just effortlessly falls into place. Because the bottom line is I'm finally an adult, right? Do I fall back into adolescence and childlike feelings and behaviors? Absolutely. But my baseline is an adult, whereas before my baseline was adolescence. When I was in a good space, I could live in the adult world for a little bit, but that wasn't my norm.

Well, and Bradley, that's why work is so appealing to us, is that you have all the evidence of adulthood through work.

Because grownups work.

Yeah, and grownups execute and talk about.

There's boundaries. You're walking into a systematic, very clear.

Start time and hierarchy and everything.

I definitely have escaped in work before.

Yeah. Because it feels like a very adult thing.

Yeah, well, and being a parent is a very adult thing, too. That can be misleading.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. I wanted to ask you this when you were talking about being a father. I wonder if you've had this realization or thought, which is it's not a realization they would imply. It's implicitly true. Have you had this thought? Girls grow up and marry their dads, and boys grow up and marry their moms. So my daughters are going to go try to find me. Holy fuck. I better be, like, the most spectacular version of myself. I want them going out and shopping for the one that's not deceptive or duplicitous or lying.

I think about that a lot in terms of how does my relationship with my daughter impact her growth and the journey she's going to be on and specifically romantically in life? Wherever intimacy finds her, I've clocked that she's going to be seven in March. You know my relationship with my dad?

Yeah.

Spend a lot of time with him. I think I've already logged more hours with my daughter than I did with my dad his entire life.

Yeah, same.

That alone is bonkers.

Were they divorced?

No. It wasn't like I was estranged to my dad. Yeah, but the sheer just amount of time that my daughter and I have hung out is bonkers. I just can feel the safety that she feels. It's so tangible, it's palpable. That is so fulfilling. And again, this foundation that you and I created manifested in order to justify the needs that we had growing up was all based on living in an environment where we had to survive to understand what was real. Right. I was playing a game my whole childhood, a survival game.

Why?

Because things were not as what they seemed growing up with alcoholism in a family is a very specific way to grow up. What you think is real, you find out isn't real, and it's earth shattering. It's like finding out that we're living in some sort of metaverse. It's like that kind of macro. You're not human. You're not breathing right now. So as a kid, you're like, wait, that's not my dad. Who's my dad? What the heck's happening? All you do is dissect behavior like a scientist to try to understand what's real. So to be able to have a child not grow up that way, not.

Monitoring your every movement to try to predict what's next. Wow.

I want her to have as much as she can, a foundation that's like 25ft thick cement that she can walk on this earth with. That's the goal, of course.

And do you find yourself having conversations with her lying in bed or whatever, and then you leave and you go like, oh, yeah, I didn't ever have a conversation like that.

All the time. Every conversation. Her ability to articulate her feelings.

At six years old, my daughters can do a four step in, like, 30 seconds.

By the way, no question. Her mother and I are bald over at this human being that we're raising that is able to articulate. And by the way, in her voice, like, I don't even think I even found what my speaking voice was really like until, like, a couple of years ago.

Right?

I'm like. I think I'm lowering it a little. It's okay, I have a sort of higher. Sorry.

Just be me. Sure, it's fine. Someone will love me.

Or more importantly, I will.

Yes.

Our nine year old will have an enormous. I mean, she swears, which I love, I'll hear, like, you're not the fucking queen of this place. To her sister, she can let a fuck rip, and it's great. And she doesn't do it often, but anyways, she can go for it. And then, like, 15 minutes later she'll come and be like, I got really scared you weren't going to include me in that thing, so I tried to hurt you back, but I never feel.

When I try to hurt you.

I've been in AA for fucking nine years before I figured out how to get halfway there.

Unbelievable.

Oh, it's so.

And by the way, thank goodness they're armed with that, because the world now is so much more complicated than it was when we were growing up. And the access to information, everyone's opinion.

Yeah, we just didn't hear it. We were making up terrible stories about everyone's opinion, but they actually hear it.

I remember being, like, twelve years old and hearing the term corruption. And I remember, like, what's corrupt? I didn't even know what corruption was. What does that mean? Asking my dad that. I remember driving down Broad street. It was on, like, the news or something. Dad, what is that? I feel like our children are exposed to the realities of human behavior and how septic it can be. And just globally. What's going on. We just have so much information, it's hard for me to even be able to compute it and be able to keep moving on as a person throughout the day. To grow up with that. That. That's the norm. I'm so glad that our children have that articulation about their feelings. So that they can live in some.

Sort of calm equilibrium.

You got to wonder, like, chicken or the egg, maybe it's already just completely required. Like, again, we didn't change and evolve until we were forced to. And it's almost like they have to already have found that no question, or would be miserable.

This is all they know. But, boy, it wasn't like that.

Isn't it? I mean, it is. People get sick of me. I sound like a proselytizer. I'm always being a parent. Yes.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd be alive if I wasn't a dad. I don't know what would have happened.

I'd be alive. I don't think you'd just be fucking.

I don't know, man.

I'm not sure I think I'd be alive, but I also think. Do you? Yeah. I don't think I could have ever achieved real self esteem.

Oh, no question.

That's really what.

And don't you think at 49, with no self esteem, that's pretty scary with your makeup. Yeah.

Was I going to make it pretty scary? No. All the things I chased to get that feeling that was not going to be obtained through any other way than this for me. Other people get there for sure. I see it all the time. There's tons of childless people.

Of course. I'm just talking about my experience. Yeah. I just needed someone to say, like, we're going to drop this massive anchor. And I'm like, why? We're speeding. I just got an upgrade on the boat, and I know where the wind's coming in. They're like, no, there's a tsunami coming, and you need an anchor. And we're going to drop it because this is going to dictate everything you're going to do from now on. Your dna is going to tell you that there's something more important than you. I remember the first time I realized Cade's like, I would die in a second for my kid. I'm always like. If I'm being honest, I don't know. Like, the first, like, eight months, I'm like, I don't even know if I really love the kid.

We don't know her yet, dope.

It's cool. I'm watching this thing morph, and then all of a sudden.

I love that honesty, by the way.

That's my experience.

That's a lot of people's, I think, and they're afraid to say that.

I mean, my experience was totally that fascinated by it.

Love.

Taking care of it. Would I die if someone came in with a gun? It's only a couple of months.

I don't know.

She just arrived.

I don't know. She could be an asshole psychopath.

I could be doing you a favor.

Who knows?

And then all of a sudden, it's like, no question that knowledge alone.

For me, the thing is, I spent 38 years evaluating, had I gotten enough love, who didn't give me enough love, who should have given me more love, who should have been more of service to me? That was my only analysis. I was never asking, like, well, how many people have you loved? How many people have you.

Oh, interesting.

Committed your resources to? How much have you given? And I think having them forced me to flip the equation around, which is like, my goal now is to give as much as I could. And then, of course, ironically, and against what I would have guessed, I feel the most love by giving it. I don't feel that love by receiving it. Whether I'm broken or that's human, I don't know. But it's like, you can give me a lot of love, and it does work for a minute, but ultimately it doesn't. But the giving it, it's the self esteem thing, it's like, no, that's actually foundational and permanent. You can't take away the eleven years I've given to Lincoln. I can feel your love for me go away quite easily.

That's right.

It's like the first permanence.

Also.

How about looking in a woman's eyes and going, I love you forever, for real. And I'm never going anywhere for real. No matter how you act, what you are. I had not had that sensation before them.

Yeah. The word unconditional actually means yes.

Yes. And I don't say that I don't love Kristen and won't be, but it's totally different. Could do enough stuff that I would be out. That's also a reality. There are conditions to my love in marriage.

But tell me this, even what you've already been through, and I'm just speaking hypothetically, you probably would have been out. The old guy.

Sure. If you lined him up at the beginning and say, here's what's coming your way, I would have been like, oh, keep shot.

No, there's a sense of ease. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's like I'm a different person because it was always predicated on the behavior that could be happening right now. Like, I could be in and out. Let's see what you got, because I'll be out in 2 seconds. In fact, you're always looking for it, right? What a horrible place for the other person to be in.

I know.

What a horrendous place. Again, to bring it back to the bachelor.

Yeah. Let's go.

And you can see people that are living that way. In fact, I was watching an episode last night, and I was commenting on, like, I could see that that person is talking to the other person in a way of, like, what are you going to do? Because I'm out in 2 seconds.

I'd like to be here, but I'm also so scared.

But I'm not even showing you that I'm scared. I'm showing you that. Are you the person that you.

Are you good enough for me?

Are you good enough? Yeah.

And no one's good enough for you because you're not good enough for you.

I mean, I would never be so bold to say what that person's feeling, but I related to it in the way that I have been without even knowing it. But now I look back and think, what a horrible thing to put people through.

Yeah.

And we've dealt with this in our friendship. You share with me that you felt like you've had to walk on eggshells with me in periods of our friendship. And I think that's what that was about to a degree, but I didn't even realize it. Yeah.

I've had the feeling like he's trying to figure out how I'm screwing him over. And it's very stressful.

Exactly.

Like, I don't know how to say, I don't have any ill intentions for you.

It breaks my heart that I put you through that.

Well, I've put you. This is how they work.

No, it's true.

But back to the women, I guess this is where to the narrative, this is where it served me, is I do have conditions romantically. I actually kind of stand by that. You can't be a raging addict hosting orgies in front of our kids and think you're going to live with me in this house. But I do think this is where the story is corrosive, is I've been married since I was born to a woman, and that woman brought people around. And I have pledged to myself, because I love myself, I won't be along for the ride of a woman I love. And so that's the baggage I carry to previous relationships. It's like I'm waiting for you to behave in a way that maybe my mom did, that I've pledged to myself I won't tolerate ever again. Do you feel like you've been married to your mom since you were born?

No question that my relationship to my mother is a massively profound element of my makeup in life. But my relationship to my mother is so different than yours to your mother.

I agree.

One of the foundations that I didn't realize was the lack of intimacy in my life as a kid, and that seeking out intimacy was part of what I wanted because I felt so alone. That was a narrative I didn't even know because I grew up the miracle kid, and then they get children. All of a sudden, I looked like a beautiful girl. Do you know what? You know the whole thing, chip on my shoulder from philly, all that stuff.

Right?

It's like, wait a second, wait a second. What was the. What's actually. Yeah. Yeah. You were shy as shit, dude. You were alone a lot. And part of that bored imagination, which, thank goodness, I've been able to put.

Into art, we would both agree, right? I'm eternally grateful for my childhood. Oh, I'm exactly where I want to be clear. I wouldn't change an element.

Me neither. We always talk about this. Being addicted to cocaine. Greatest gift of my life.

Yeah, it's awesome.

Yeah. I don't think I would have gotten sober if it was just alcohol. I think I would have carried the lineage of my predecessors, and I'd be made at work. I'd be a dad thinking that drinking is fine, and then one day, my daughter would see me the way I saw my dad, and who knows what I would do.

Yeah. Then it all blows up.

Okay.

This is really perfect foundation for maestro.

Oh, yeah, it is. Yeah.

First of all, obviously, it's really, really well made.

You did it again, really, congratulations.

Perfectly acted. Everything's great. Very unique tone that's consistent over three different film stocks. And all of that is really impressive. The opening line is great. Art will create more questions than it answers, in a nutshell. And this man who I know nothing about, Leonard Bernstein, I'm so fucking mad at. I hate his fucking guts. I hate him so much. It's so personal watching this, which, again, is a testament to how fucking great it is. I finished it. My first knee jerks are like, why even make a movie about a guy like that? I mean, when he looks at his daughter and lies, I wanted to fucking go through the screen and kill him.

Because you wanted him to tell the truth.

Yes, and I'll get to what it's all about. But this morning, while journaling, I'm like, what's going on? And I'm like, it's all a continuum. I'm on that continuum. I am Leonard Bernstein. I want glory. I want to be seen as special. I want to have a skill that's rare. I want to be adored. I want to indulge all of my carnal whimsies, but also have the love of my children and my wife. I want to be a selfish monster, and I want to create some kind of art or product that will excuse all my shittiness. And I always hate the people that are most like me. That's who I hate the most. That's who fucking gets me enraged. And I am in such judgment of other people that have what I have. I don't think I'm Leonard Bernstein, but I think I'm on the continuum, and I think I fight being him. And so, for me, of course, the one moral high ground I have is that I would never look at my daughters and deny the reality they witnessed. And so that was the moment where, like, well, he's a piece of fucking shit, and I'm not.

But I have a question. That scene, what did you think was going on with him in that scene? Do you think it was hard for him to lie to her?

I think it was really hard for him to lie to her. And I think he told himself he was doing it for his wife. And I think maybe you, even as an actor, were doing it for your wife. But then I go. But then go one step further. The wife only has to deal with this humiliation of having sold out her feminism, and she's afraid to be in front of her daughter, a bad model of what a woman should respect herself for because of you. So, sure, you kicked it down the road and said, I'm lying to protect my wife. But really, the reason your wife needs you to lie is because of you. He didn't get out of jail for me in that scene. Does that make any sense?

Wife? I don't think. I mean, it was. But it was for her.

Well, no, but he said, I want to tell her. She's old enough.

She's smart enough.

And then the wife was like, you can't.

But then when he's sitting with her, I think it was for her. I don't think it was in service of the wife.

Well, I could tell you what was going on because I remember that. No, mean going on with me.

This is so great, though, that Monica and I always have debates. Yeah, you can turn to the person who knows the truth.

No, but I don't know the truth. I don't know the mean. That's the thing. I don't know the truth at all. Meaning I don't even know the truth about the actual conversation that occurred. Or even the truth of what is the movie.

Yes.

And by the way, I don't know if I even shared this with you. But throughout the process of making the movie I went through the same machination that you just described about him. I was like, fuck this guy. I'm an idiot. Why am I spending all this time dedicated to an asshole? And it was only because I'm like, oh, no. He's reflecting all the shit that terrifies me about myself.

Dude, it's one of the most brutal mirrors I've ever seen.

And it's like, oh, shit. And if I want to try to approach this without acting, really go there. You know what I mean? Yeah.

You got to be anchoring it to the things in you.

Exactly. And in that moment, I remember so well because I tried to get it to have two cameras but the composition, I won. I couldn't. So we actually shot separately the side.

Because you're in four three at that point still.

Yeah. One three three.

So you don't have the width to do dueling overs.

Yeah, and I didn't want to do french overs. I could have done it if I did French over. It was like the movie showing that we're hiding. And I don't want it to be that way. It's supposed to be like I'm actually revealing.

You almost want it straight down the barrel in this one.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I don't want the audience to be behind them.

I want them to be in them.

No safety, no distance. We're distant. In other moments. Where we're peeking. Know when they're fighting, and we're like, what's going on? But now, no, we're in the middle. This is a reckoning. It was so hard for me to lie to her. Every element of my body was saying, this goes against everything I believe. As Bradley, as Lenny and Bradley.

Oh, that's true.

Yeah. You guys are in concert when she says, I'm relieved.

Exactly.

And I'm going, oh, fuck, no, I can't teach you this. Relieved about what? You're basically going to live through the constructs that have been dictated to us. Because early in the movie, the reason why he talks to Felicia is like, you're like me. I could tell. You have this accent that's kind of I can't place. But your father's american. But you grew up in Chile. You lied about coming to New York to say piano. But it's acting. We're the same person because the world wants us to be one thing. And I find that fucking deplorable. And I actually find, you know, remember in college, even when we first started hanging out, we spoke.

We just kept up without gas.

Yes. Dude, it's because you're so excited to meet a like minded person that was, like, his anchor. Yes. The world won't accept me, but I'll never put out this fire. And this fire eventually burns everything down. Unfortunately, we can get to that in a second. But in that moment, I would never say, that really is Lenny. But that character, Lenny, it fucking killed him to lie to her.

Yeah.

You could tell because the one thing he could hold on to was his identity of an unabashedly honest human being in a world that's trying to put him in a different category, which is the most selfish. Think about it also.

But it's the only time we've seen his own behavior actually catch up with him. He sees it affect other people.

He has to curtail his own way of living. So that was a fascinating scene to experience.

I think it's the most powerful scene in the movie.

I think it's funny that you two projected those feelings like you were so angry at him. Because when I watched it, I felt so bad for him.

I felt anger in the preparation. I didn't feel any anger towards him while I was filming it because life.

Is so complex and people are so complex, and he's just one person caught up in this complexity. And I believe that he can have all these feelings all at once and that the world doesn't allow for that. But that's his truth. And how do you reconcile that? So, for me, I was just like, oh, life is so hard.

What I like about it is it exposes our own things. So there would have been another character that would have been doing something that's one of your flaws and character, and you would be irate.

Yeah.

And I would be like, again, I've overcome snorting cocaine. So when I see people snorting cocaine, I'm not like those losers. They need to get their shit together. I just have compassion, and I get it. Six months sober, I was like, these motherfuckers never gonna get their shit together. You know, I don't have that issue anymore. But I think it's just so funny. And then it's so obvious to me why you and I have the same reaction and interest in this, is that we got a lot of feelings about someone that acts like that. I don't have a lot of feelings about Carrie. She might have been flawed throughout this, and she probably did things that if you were a codependent or someone that lost your identity to another person, you'd be in such great judgment of her the whole movie. I wasn't, because that's not the fucking dragon I'm battling every night in bed.

Dragon is the right word. That's what she calls him. You're a dragon. And that's part of. He's like, oh, you see me and you love me. You know I'm a dragon and you're kissing me. Yeah. That's why that first scene when they're rehearsing, that's what she says to him.

When he's playing the king. Yes, exactly.

Who doesn't want to be with someone who sees you and loves you? So I could do anything I want. And then there's the tragic flaw, and.

Again, you evaluate your life. It's the great relapse fantasy. It's like, I can do it this way, and as long as the other people don't know, that'll be a success. I just got to keep it from everybody. And you ignore the fact that you'll never keep it from yourself. His behavior comes home to roost in that scene with his daughter, irregardless of the other people around him, whether he's kept it on the rails or not.

And you're right. No matter whether it was that moment in his life or another, it was going to come back to roost, like you said.

And also the duality of he's also teaching and helping. No one's good or bad part of what she said.

Seeped in because be kind to him. Those are the last words she says to her daughter, basically in the movie kindness, kindness, kindness. So something did seep through.

I mean, of course, you're always evaluating whether someone's doing just enough good stuff to excuse their bad stuff, like just keeping their own self esteem in a homeostasis. Two for you, one for me. I've certainly been guilty of two goods, and now I've earned something for me, the other for me. Genius element was, I have no reverence for conductors full honesty. I have been to the symphony. I'm watching the guy with the baton, and I'm watching the musicians, and I'm like, they don't ever look at this guy. This is like, I'm wrong.

No, you're not.

Kristen explained.

No, but you're not. That does occur.

Okay. So for me, it was such a wonderful exposure of my own priorities and things I value, which is he's getting so much love and affection for this thing that a Dax Shepard thinks is almost fraudulent. Really? You spin this thing around that's such an accomplishment that's worthy of worship and praise, and it's preposterous that that little tiny thing he does would excuse anything. And then I go, yeah, and my things are just as preposterous. I, too, have a stupid thing I do. Does that make any sense?

Yes. That's really interesting.

I mean, it's very helpful that this character was such a legend in something that I didn't personally, but he also composed. Now, had you done a rock star or a film director or a race car driver, I would have been trapped in a little bit of, yes, this is a worthy pursuit and does justify some shit. You do have to dedicate yourself to your thing in a manner that alienates other people. But because I could find no purchase in the things he excelled at, that actually, like, as a gift to me, because it pointed out you couldn't. How equally preposterous the things I value are and that there isn't a hierarchy in it. It's just you do something great, and you hope you won't have to play by any rules because you do something great.

100%.

It got me fucking revved up.

I'm glad.

Really good.

Yeah, really?

Wow.

Really revved up. It took me all night to sleep on it and then to journal about this morning, because I was even thinking, like, what am I going to talk to Cooper about? What is my angle, other than the obvious things? Like I said, it's fucking perfectly made. I didn't know how I felt emotionally about it. And then once I was journaling, I'm like, oh, I know exactly how I feel about this. This is the kind of person I hate because this is the side of me I hate.

The reason I did the movie. One of the reasons in terms of focusing on him and investigating this person is that in the research and we talk about elements of ourselves in him, but this guy lived his life in all of those aspects. You're saying at 100, right? Like that one human being was able to, with such abandon, embody all of the hypocrisies and contradictions of the human experience in his lifetime was mind blowing to me. No wonder he died at 62.

Full throttle.

Full throttle. From 13 years old till 72, right? Started smoking when he was 13. Ashtrays in the bathtub. Couldn't sleep, by the way. Total insomniac. Add that to the equation. Asthmatic.

He was probably feeling physically terrible while also pushing through.

I mean, if he was healthy, he would have lived to, like 130. And I talked to his kids about it. I was like, what happened to his brain? Because drank a lot. The guy just devoured. He was a dragon.

Yes. Chomp, chomp, chomp.

And they were like. His brain was sharp as attack till he died. It's like God gave him everything. Let's see how the human experience works on this human being when they have everything. Beautiful, charismatic, effortlessly, totally present. If you watch interviews with him, he reminds me of Michael Jordan. There's like no inner monolog. It's just you're asking him a question and he's answering it. His sense of self, whatever that thing is that he was given, is so concrete and a Boolean for others to be around. That's why everybody I interviewed said, like, well, when he walked in the room, you know, it's what you hear about Clinton. The energy changes. If he looks at you, you're like, I'm seen.

You're the only person.

These are massive weapons to explore this guy that reflects to various degrees in all of us. He embodied everything at a ten. I thought, this is interesting. That was the thought.

I do believe the more I sit on it, because as you just say that, yeah, like, massive arsenal. What human is going to navigate that with total morality at all times? That's a lot. To have that effect on people and to not enjoy that and to not want to live in that permanently.

I mean, think about it. A guy brought a gun to school to kill him. A student, because he couldn't take that. This person was living because it reflected how less than he was and that his teacher strangled him during a rehearsal. Those things happened. One of the things I realized was that I'd never tell my daughter is, like, you hurt my feelings ever. Because a kid can't hurt an adult's feelings. That's too much power to give them. Because when I was a kid and I heard that I was causing acid to run down my grandfather's esophagus, right? Because he said, you give me ajida. I'm six years old going, how am I pouring acid down this God who was a police officer? Imagine being a young man in your kid comes to school to try to kill you because of jealousy, and your teacher is strangling you because you're too talented. Think about what that would do to you.

Have you found compassion in playing him? I guess we all know this. This is a well worn trope. You can't be in judgment of the people you play.

You know, it's interesting. I was thinking about that the other day. I think I live by that. Like, you have to love your characters. I don't believe that at all. The one gift that I've been given is empathy as a human being. And the flip side is that is I'm so sensitive and could be hurt so easily. I think that also is part of why I feel like I found the right thing to do with my life professionally. Those things could be a benefit to telling a story.

They're like height for a center.

Yeah. And I have so much empathy for him because of all the things I've just been saying, because he was alive and had all of these traits as a human being, and he had to survive with that. And it's not like a two for one thing that you're saying, but I don't believe at all that fight when she says it's just hate in your heart. All you care about is showing everybody that they're less than you. I don't believe that at all, and nor does she. And that's the hope of that.

That's also too binary.

Yeah, exactly.

I think it can be both.

Of course, he loves the idol aspect, but at the core, what I feel from him. And you could take any video if you like, YouTube. Leonard Bernstein played any random one, and you and I talked about his eyes and his voice. I don't see hate. I see generosity. Now, that doesn't mean he wasn't a monster at times. But I do believe there's a deep.

Light, and that's where we get into a much harder and more nuanced question, which is, can we have these super special people and expect that they're going to be completely normal than when we need them to be?

His tragic flaw, and it's by his upbringing, the way society viewed him, his religion, his talent, he had a whole bunch of weapons pointed towards him. But his tragic flaw and what we know now, living in this, in quotes, evolved culture, is that he could have done the work to try to be more centered and have boundaries and be able to live a life of kindness. And I think that he didn't have those tools.

Yeah, he was living when. If you were an alcoholic, you went to the sanitarium.

That's right.

Yeah. That's a great point. You can only be so disappointed in someone living in the context.

It has to be contextualized.

Yeah, that's very fair.

He had a lot of fires burning all at once. I could have a great family. I'll fuel that fire. Everybody wants to fuck me. I'll fuel that fire. I'm a once in a generation artist. I'll fuel that. Composing and conducting, very hard to stoke both with equal fervor. So you have all these fires burning. You can't keep them all. I mean, if I've learned one thing, focus on one thing, but if you're trying to keep all of these things going, eventually they're not going to be tended to and they're going to burn out, or they're going to take over everything.

Well, and that gets to the heart of one of my cardinal sins. I'm greedy. I want everything. I want to be the best drummer. No, it definitely has dissipated.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Even sitting here watching you, I don't see any of that.

It can be confusing. I'm really referencing the foundational stuff I battle, and I do think there's been great progress. So I am in no way, because.

Your core that I will go to the grave is kindness. No matter all this shit you and.

I have been through, if not kindness, I want the best for the people that I love.

I would say that's kindness.

Okay, good.

That's how we're going to.

And I don't know. Here's the thing. I wasn't sure I was urged to declare this diagnosis on him, but I was looking for just textbook narcissism as, like, a real personality disorder. Are the people around him props, or is he genuinely concerned about the people around him? Does he want to help them as much as he wants to be helped by them? That was another thing I found myself kind of evaluating, and again, because, like, I would alcoholism, I try to really go, hey, man, it'd be real easy for you to start drinking the koolaid. You got to really mind yourself about narcissism. And so I think I'm hyper aware of other people, right or wrong, but.

Who'S keeping him in check? Why can't he have all of it? For a long time, no one's saying, stop this, or no one's giving ultimatums. So what human would say, I guess on my own, I'm going to give up this thing that is fulfilling me right now. None of us would do that if there weren't people saying, you can't, like.

If you weren't actively betraying someone.

Yeah. And they're saying, look, I'm walking out or I'm leaving, or, you can't do this to me. That was not happening. And so it would take an astronomical level of understanding.

I think there was a lot of no. First of all, just professionally, what he overcame. Never an american conductor, certainly a jew, to come into this art form. Hoover had a folder on him that was this thick.

Looks about three inches to the, for the listener.

Yeah.

Imagine those are all tiny papers, very.

Thin papers for the FBI, he overcame.

And if you go back and read, talk about bad reviews.

Oh, did he get eviscerated his whole career?

Really?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's so comforting, isn't it?

People made fun of his tactics in the conducting, was all of a sudden praised by the very people that were ridiculed. He was a unicorn. People don't want unicorns.

Scared.

And the other difference I felt that I can't relate to is, I don't know, so much that he needed the praise of people because he was so aware that he was a dragon.

He had that in his own heart.

Because it was a reality. That was the idea of the beginning of the movie. He's not living with us. And God says, I'm going to call you to come down here and show people this thing. Now that's a huge gift I'm giving you. Let's see what you do with it.

We've witnessed it most recently a couple times in John Batiste.

Oh, dude.

Dude.

Yeah.

No, he is. He's a gift.

Joke and talk about present.

I can see in John Batiste's eyes that he is both grateful for the adoration, but that's not even in the equation.

His pursuit is so far beyond that. And that was Lenny's too.

I felt that helps me link those two, actually.

Okay. He was like a ridiculous talent. Lenny, when you get a chance, just YouTube. Leonard Bernstein does the history of music in five minutes.

Oh, fuck. Okay, dude. It'll be a very John experience.

It is. He takes you through the beginning of sound to now.

Oh, wow.

In five minutes.

Yeah, I need to see that.

And you're just like, okay.

And you're asking a lot. Again, here's the compassion thing. You're asking so much. You're asking someone to live on another plane where that stuff is accessible. And then between 05:00 p.m. And 09:00 a.m. Live on your plane. That's what I was asking. Do we have to have some kind of tolerance for if we want the things we want? Is Michael Jordan the funnest teammate? No, you're not going to get the funnest teammate and the teammate that brings you six championships. There also has to be some level of honesty in these equations, I guess.

Yes.

Now, it doesn't excuse if you're being hurt by that person, but at the same time, there's just a certain reality. I think a lot of people want a lot of reward and not a lot of risk, and that feels dishonest as well. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

Getting back to what's the reason to make this movie, I never really thought about weighing the analysis of it all in terms of judgment or win or lose. It was more like, I think this guy reflects things that we all feel and go through on a cinematic level because it's on steroids. So the hope is there's reason why you guys do this. You want to connect with people. That's it. Bottom line, can it connect with you so you don't feel so alone as a human, period?

It's real simple and I hope to let you into my pov occasionally.

That is the connection.

Yeah.

That's the means by which we don't feel so alone. I don't want to live in a room by myself for my whole life. I need people.

Also, they're great reminders because you evaluate everyone around you, assuming they're living in the same reality as you are, and it's wrong. And to have something tangible to experience someone else's reality actually reminds you, like, oh, no, we're all living in our own little thing. And so it's really important to remember this isn't the only version.

It's all subjective. There's nothing objective about reality, which is scary, but we assume it is.

And don't you think social media and media in general reflects just how disparate realities are.

100%.

We actually have a booklet of another reality that we could open up and read, and you're like, oh, wow. That's a completely different analysis of even things and people that I know.

Right. You and I are doing it individually, personally, with our own story. It's like, oh, that was a story that worked for 40 some years.

That's right.

Is that still the story that'll work for the next 40 and might be time to make a new one?

Yes.

I just want to ask really quick, because you had done so much research. I recently read the Mike Nichols biography. Have you read that?

I read sections of it. I heard. It's incredible.

I was thinking about you the entire time I read it. I just kept thinking, Cooper has to be obsessed with this book. And again, I was a philistine on him. Everyone in New York knows about Mike Nichols. It's like a very elevated. Same with Lenny Bernstein.

And Leonard Bernstein was godfather to their children.

I knew you were doing the movie, and then I was reading the book, and then I was learning that Mike hung out with him in Martha's vineyard all the time. And then, of course, I got more interested in Leonard Bernstein because this new guy I'm obsessed with, Mike Nichols, was somehow connected to him and sharing some thing. But again, I don't know what parts of that book you read, but he was, like, fucking smoking crack during a lot of these movies.

I know.

And then addicted to this benzo that made him go crazy for a year, and he sold everything he owned because he thought he was going broke. I mean, this motherfucker was on a ride while making all these incredible things, and I didn't even know he had been the most legendary comedian of his day. What?

I know Nichols and May. Insane.

Yes. So, to me, I was like, oh, these two feel very similar in that they're doing Everything.

Yes.

Somehow, Mike Nichols is the best Broadway director, but he's also doing movies, and he was the most inventive comedian with May and's fucking smoking crack and a.

Father and married to Diane Sawyer makes.

Me so fascinated with her.

And beloved.

Totally. That's the key.

But that was at a time when you could be, I don't know, about now.

Given his lifestyle, you mean?

Yeah, and just that we don't like keeping people on top now.

Oh, interesting.

We want him to be that, but then we'd love to tear him down at this point if he was.

What's your relationship to that?

People wanting people to fall.

Do you agree with that?

Yeah. I don't think anyone's nefarious or malicious. I think that we are all blueprinted to tell stories, and when someone gets to the very top, we need a third act. So unless they can get higher. Yeah. I think in general, people are like, well, what's next?

And status monkeys. You get tired of seeing the same people on top, and it feels unjust and unfair, and so let's use our power to take them down. I think it's rough.

What do you think about it?

I never thought of it. It's always so interesting to hear your point of view, this idea of just needing more of a story, because then it gets stale. I look at it from a different point of view, my own lens, which is, I don't want to be alone. And I do think that's a deep need. I mean, we're social animals.

Exactly.

Period. There's nothing easier to connect with somebody by putting somebody else down. Right. That's the old thing. You and I can shit on somebody that we know, and we'll feel like, oh, look how connected we are.

It won't last. Let me applaud you, and I have given you credit on here many times. You are actually the person that pointed that out to me. I can remember so clearly three things you've said to me. One was, when someone's talking shit about someone else to me, it tells me more about them than the person they're talking shit about. I was like, that opened up a whole world to me. One was my own vanity. Other people are onto what Cooper said. I'm just exposing myself. Two, I started noticing. I do it to point out a virtue of my own. If I'm on set and I go like, oh, where's Mike? 15 minutes behind. I guess if I say that, I'm saying I'm on time, and I actually won't move through the world bragging about myself for being on time. So once I just connect the pieces of what I'm really doing, then I don't have an appetite for it anymore.

And I've discovered so many traits of my behavior that I didn't even realize until this foundation thing, this new story we are telling ourselves, that's more close to the truth. And I laugh at my boundaryless behavior. And I think, like, oh, I know what I was doing. I had justified it all because I'm honest. That whole thing. Well, I don't lie. It's a little bit more than that.

Unless you're lying to yourself.

Exactly.

You might be telling the truth all the time. Your truth, totally wrong.

And I could feel to myself, it's so much easier to shit on somebody and connect. And I feel like this new reality that's out there that has been cultivated for years. When we first started being in this business, I think is the inception of it with, like, message boards.

Remember back in the day? Your story with message boards is so.

Fantastic, but I think that was the beginning of it. And now if you're part of a school council, you can go and read the comment like it's everywhere. Everybody has their own little pocket of Hollywood and has to sustain a level of humanity, or just sustenance, given the amount of slings and arrows that they can read about themselves on a daily basis. What saddens me is that it's the easiest way to connect with people by putting other people down.

That's kind of sweet, though. When you actually frame it that way, it gives me sympathy for the two monkeys talking shit on the third monkey. It's like, oh, I see. They want companionship. This seems like the easy, but it's still hurtful. Oh, God. Yeah. But my goal is to hopefully give everyone the benefit of the doubt. It's very hard for me a lot of times, but when you frame it that way, it actually allows me to be a little sympathetic to it.

Yeah. Because I can relate to. It's not like these people are monsters and I'm a good guy. I don't want us as a collective to go into that base, easy way of communicating because all it's going to do is cannibalize ourselves because everybody's going to start feeling horrible about themselves, suicide rates going to skyrocket, drug use, and we're going to get lost. To grow takes work and not easy work, and it never ends.

Yeah, bad news.

But when you work hard and people are working hard around you and love is the actual tool. I can't believe that this movie got made the way it did. There was a tremendous amount of adversity, but there were enough people filled with love that made this film. And that's the only reason that it was able to become what it is. And that I know for a fact until I don't know it, which is you and I undertake something and we work hard and we approach it with love. I don't know what we're capable of achieving because we're doing it together. I don't know where the ceiling is.

Right.

That's really exciting.

We're a multiplicate, but if I do.

It on my own, I know I'll never get to where I could get if I'm surrounded by people that are all working together. This ability to connect with each other so quickly, globally, as a collective, we have so much opportunity. It just saddens me that the negative aspect of it is also so destructive, because it's the easiest.

Yeah, well, it's incredible. Do you know what you're going to do next?

Yeah.

Oh, fun. I watch it, and when it ended, I was like, I don't know where he musters up another.

I want to talk to you about it offline. I'm very curious what you're going to think, because I always love your perspective.

Well, thank you. I also need to just point out it doesn't have anything to do with Maestro, but of course, in my research, I watch your most recent. Fallon. You guys have the most special thing. It's so fun to watch. I can't believe how fun it is to watch you two. I'm glad you fucking just feel that going there. You are so calm when you're there. It's incredible. You've got, like, these very low energy counterpunches that are so great the whole time. You're never in a hurry. It's very Bill Murray when you're there. What do you think it is about that relationship? Does it exist outside of the show?

I don't really know him outside the show that well at all. Like, zero.

Wow.

Did you see the most recent one?

I don't know if I saw the most recent.

Oh, my God. I don't know if it's an in show promo for these actual. He's got, like, these glasses that you can hit record on it anytime.

I did see that, yes.

And they're, like, going back and forth. The glasses, it could probably have gone on for 26 minutes. I don't know. And then we're trying to talk about the high school reunion. You guys can't do anything sincere. That's what's consistent between the two.

Chemistry. That's real.

Yes.

And every time you try to talk about something for real, it cannot be done. And there's something so fucking entertaining about it.

Getting back to this story thing I know I keep talking about, but I've noticed as I've gotten older and more present and boundaried, I'm just calmer in my life. And one way that I really recognize it is how I cry, because this love on the spectrum show, I cry.

Through the whole show. Right.

Whenever I get emotional in my life, I'm always like, I'm the ugliest crier because my whole body starts to shake. Like, I was never, like, the one tear guy. Like, I'm like, you sure you want me to cry in this scene?

Because you're going to feel very wide now. My body's going to move. It's going to be very uncomfortable frame at some point.

And music is so moving. I mean, I cried a lot through the research of this movie because I went to so many concerts, but that was happening in tandem of all this work I was doing. I cry so differently now. Oh, my body doesn't convulse because you're.

Not trying to squeeze it in so hard.

There's just more relaxation. That was one of the byproducts. I recognized that a couple of months ago. I was like, tears are just coming down. I'm not, like, having a seizure.

Right.

I really think I'm just calmer and more open. It's interesting. And that's kind of a beautiful thing. I was so happy to feel that and recognize what it was because I thought, I've never in my life cried like that. Remembering my dad when he would cry, which I never saw till I was, like, in my 20s, he looked like a baby. First of all, his voice would go three octaves higher because he wasn't open. Yeah, it was really interesting.

I'm not shocked that we're on a similar crying journey because we've been paralleling each other so perfectly. But, yeah, I've become a huge crier in, what, Monica? Last year and a half, two years, we did this show on Fridays where we interview armchairs. Half of them I cry in. I'm just crying all the time now.

There's a 30 years time with that person. See me cry, probably. I'm not exaggerating, Dax. I'm not kidding. Probably 150 times in the last year, and I just didn't go, like, it's bonkers.

Do you have some that always set you off? Because I have a very specific thing that seems to set me off. It's not sadness. It's almost like. No, it's like spirit that breaks through when humanity.

Yes, when I see humanity. And that's why love on the spectrum is like, black tar humanity.

You know what I mean? Colombian flake. Yeah. For me, it's these documentaries about female singers.

Oh, wow.

Kristen came into the room about six months ago when the Sinead O'Connor doc came out and I was sitting in bed watching in the middle of the afternoon. And she came in my shirt was wet. I was just bawling because this woman, despite everything, would stand there and let it rip. Fuck everything. Open up her throat and the chest and let it rip. And fuck you. I won't let you not let me shine. And I'm like, it fucks me so bad. So it's the same kind of vibe.

It's funny you say that. As the business has changed, most of what I talked to Dave Boliari about is, are we going to get another t mobile commercial? And is Louis Vuitton going to keep us for a watch?

Like, that's it.

That's literally the discussions.

Yes. Well, you're kind of handling the other thing on your own, and it doesn't.

Really bring in, you know? So it's like everything's changed.

Oh, I know.

And so I was at the Louis Vuitton Paris men's fashion show for that, and pharrell is the artistic director, and after the show, he brought on a group of musicians from a reservation. So they start singing, and I'm sitting know with the Louis Vuitton outfit, trying.

To represent the brand well.

And these men open their mouths and start, like you said, will not be quiet. Right. And I'm going to show you. All the pain is going to come out of my instrument, of my body right now. Because we're wind and string instruments, right? That's what we are. We're both as humans, right? Because we have our vocal cords and air goes through us, so it's like two instruments at once being played through a human voice.

Never thought of that.

Ambro, luckily, because as I'm getting older, I need glasses. And I don't know about you, but I'm so happy. Luckily, I need bad eyesight, and I was, like, convulsing, but again, I was loose, so it wasn't hard, but I was. And just floods of tears. By the way, it wasn't like it took a second.

You didn't need a ramp up. They said action.

That's right. It was exactly the same thing.

Yes. That someone would be beautiful despite all the fucking voices trying to shame them or embarrass them for being. Oh, it's the greatest. All right. I love leonard Bernstein.

You came around. Oh, bradley, we really.

Yeah. Also, I'm shout out to Dave. You just brought him up. But I'm always so flattered. Occasionally, boogs will text me that he's listened to an episode, and it's always so thoughtful and nice.

Big shout out.

I wanted to talk about your high school reunion. I think it's so fascinating. You went there, but we don't have time.

You got to come back more.

I would love to.

It's so fun.

What percentage of your life is in La now? Ten? Five?

Oh, no. Two?

We going to ever just pull out entirely or.

No, I don't want to.

Right.

And luckily, it's a two bedroom house. It's okay. But, you know, who knows?

Who knows if Baton gets the footage of you fucking collapsing at the fashion show? If you want to be an extremely sensitive man, Louis Vuitton.

That's what we want. That's what we want. That's what we're asking for.

You gotta go.

I'm getting calls.

Okay. Okay, great. I'll let you go. Did you watch the Beckham doc?

I sure did.

As I've gotten healthier, I know about less people now. I don't know who's doing great at this or that. I'm not really sure who's succeeding on massive levels. I think it's like, a good sign that I'm not tracking anybody. But in that, I've also lost as I've gotten older, people I just am in awe of, and I miss it. And I watch Beckham and I'm like, thank you. We're back to me seeing brad Pitt for the first time.

Oh, interesting.

I want to look like you. I started wearing sweaters and blue jeans again. I love his tattoos on his neck. I love how he cleans his countertop. And I'm like, oh, good, I got one. I was afraid I couldn't get that in.

That's funny. I almost had the opposite reaction where I was like, yeah, everybody's human. Everybody's dealt with adversity. Because my idea, Beckham is like, oh, the guy. Which people, I'm sure, have said about us born, and then everything is easy.

They never had a cavity they don't have to wipe.

I was like, oh, yeah, the human experience again, getting back to that is filled with strife, period.

Yeah. But if you could look as cool as him while you're going through it, that'd be dope. Oh, my God.

All right.

I love you. This was so fun.

Thanks for having me. I'm glad you're doing so well.

You too. Eyes are banging.

Oh, good.

Yeah. All right. Love you.

Love you.

Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

You?

No, I was getting my haircut.

Oh, yeah. Looks nice.

Oh, thank you. Two years younger. One's years younger.

40.

Four years younger. Oh, I just love how the sides feel.

Do you like to touch it a lot?

I do. I remember when I was younger and the first time I shaved my head.

Probably chewy caramel will dissolve.

Wow. I almost caught it.

Me too. And mine didn't see mine come until right before it hit my face.

You really believe I'm going to like it?

If your problem is that it's like an hour to chew through it, okay.

You'll be done in seconds.

45 seconds.

And should I suck it or chew it?

Oh, wow.

It depends on your preference.

I don't know what your kinks are, but if you suck it, it'll last.

Thing I'm eating today. Is that bad?

Yeah, not ideal.

I know. Why don't I wait till I eat? No, but we need it for the pod. I guess this is what work is about.

It'll make you hyper for the fact check.

No one's going to like what I'm about to say, which already it's too much.

Well, it is a big piece.

It's, like so sticky. It does taste very good.

It's the duck fat.

The game is to chew. Not all the way. It's like dance it on your molars so it doesn't stick. I kind of like the challenge of it.

It tastes so meaty because of the duck fat I got. Put it away.

Oh, you're not going to finish that?

I'll finish it later. This is how I feel about caramels. I don't want to finish it. It's going to take me an hour to finish it.

How could people not like the sound of that? It sounds so funny.

All stuck. It's all stuck on my teeth. I appreciate you trying.

I loved mine, but I already knew I loved it.

It does taste really good, though.

I even broke my sugar for you.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's a big deal.

Okay.

Back to the first time I shaved my head. I remembered submerging my head in a bowl of water, like tipping my head down.

For what?

I had shaved my head.

I know. Okay.

Then I wanted to get all the. Whatever residue, all the little particles out. And when I dipped my head in, it was one of the craziest sensations of my life.

Wow. What did it tell me more.

I don't know what to say other than tickly. You know when you get tinglies on your scalp?

Like when hair play?

Sure. Yeah. It was just like putting a dome of hair play on.

So it's like someone was playing with your hair when you put your head in the water.

As I was inserting it into the water, as the water took over the whole shape, I was like, I got it. Like a chill. Pleasure chill. That's what they're called. Pleasure chills.

Wow.

Yeah, I really missed that. But not worth shaving my head again, that was part of my downfall in junior high. When I got too close to the sun, I thought I could pull off. I thought I could pull anything off, and I couldn't.

I know it.

Really expose how big your nose is when you shave your hat. Did we ever address the fact that we did the nose swap we posted?

Oh, I don't think we talked about.

Yeah, it was pretty concluded. Well, first of all, a lot of people were like, oh, my God. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with that photo, which is funny. But also, it did prove, I think, once and for all, that my nose is three times the size of yours. Because your nose looked tiny on my face. Mine looked enormous.

Okay, but this is a false negative. Negative. Because obviously, your nose is bigger than my nose. Because your face is bigger than my face. Because you're a bigger person than me.

Okay.

It's about proportions, and I think proportionally, my nose on my face is at least the same, if not bigger than yours on your face. Well, yeah.

Agree to disagree.

Now, there's no way.

We need another system because we thought that was going to prove it. Your nose was a button nose on my face.

Well, obviously. Also the angle.

I was like, oh, wow, I can do another one. I intentionally did not resize noses. Normally, if I'm doing, like, a face swap, I'll try to make it proportionate.

I have a new idea. Okay, let's do molds of our nose, and then we will be able to hold the mold up. In your case, you'll be able to put my nose completely over yours, is my guess.

Okay. But again, this is the same problem.

Because you're talking proportionate.

Yes.

So what we need to do is we need to measure from the top of our hairline to our chin. But that's a little unfair because I'm a male and have more of a receding hairline.

But this is all part of it, I guess, visually. Yeah.

Anyways, yes. We do need to do a full ratio. Can we use your penis mold that you posted to do a nose mold?

Well, I don't know. I kind of want to save it for a penis. I don't think I'm ready to give it that up yet.

And that was the only one on planet earth.

Yeah. Yes. Drive away dolls, the movie, which I haven't seen yet.

But that's a movie promotion.

Yeah.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. Ethan Cohen.

It's a Coen Brothers movie.

Yeah.

And they're handing out penis.

Yes, of course.

Well, I don't know. Of course. That sounds very risque for the Coen brothers.

Oh, don't you think? To me it sounds so accurate.

Oh, okay.

Because they're funny.

They are funny, but they're also classic.

They're also not saying, even though we've talked about this before, because you said, well, when it's one, it's actually both. But they're not saying it's the Cohen brothers. They're saying it's Ethan, I think. Bradford, Vermont.

Brad from Vermont.

Bradford, Vermont.

Oh, that's the location?

Yes.

I thought it was your friend. Bradford, Vermont.

Brad Vermont from Vermont.

Yeah. Like, this is what basketball players will do. Like Susie Denver, Tiffany Sarasota.

What do you mean?

Because they go to a city to play basketball and they meet a Jennifer.

Oh, you mean in their phone, in their thought you.

I thought you had a Brad Vermont. I was like, oh, this is so exciting.

Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah. People do that. They go to places, they hook up.

And they put in, they don't know the last name. Even if they knew the last name, they know in three months the last name won't ring a bell.

Exactly.

And I think more ambitious and prolific, some of these players got. I think there had to be more adjectives because I think there are multiple jennifers from Denver. And then. So sometimes it's Jennifer Denver, red hair, freckle on nose.

Oh, my God. I think you're also giving them a lot of credit because I think they just didn't even put the name in.

They might not have put the name in. I don't know.

It looks like. So his wife wrote it a while ago. Script was conceived several decades ago.

Oh, several decades ago.

Yeah, by his wife. And she edited a bunch of their earlier movies.

Wonderful.

And then Ethan explained, me and Joel would never have made this movie. It would not have happened. I don't think me and Joel would have written a romantic comedy about two female leads. Here's the funny thing. I think 20 years ago we could have gotten an important lesbian movie made, but this is an unimportant lesbian movie.

That just didn't compute.

Then.

That's hilarious.

That's really funny.

Also, Matt Damon's in it for a quick hot second.

Oh, he's got a pop. Who are the leads?

Margaret Qualy. I mean, I said Margaret.

Yeah. I was like, this is a fresh face. Introducing Margaret Quali.

Margaret Qualy.

Okay.

Beanies in it. Anyway, okay. When I saw I got my penis in the mail.

Yes.

And it is exciting.

Yes. Now let me ask you.

I have to mold someone's penis.

Yeah. Now here's a fun question for everyone. I would be very flattered if someone.

Asked me for the mold.

Would you feel comfortable just asking Matt Damon, would you mind molding your penis?

Right.

Because if I were him, I would feel so flattered. Such a compliment.

That's what I wonder. How inappropriate is it to request to.

Ask Jimmy to ask Matt for you?

Yeah. To ask a best boy to ask another best boy. Yeah. If he'll just make a little mold for me.

Don't say a little mold because that may trigger him to not want to do it.

Or he'll really want to because he'll want to show it's a big mold. Or maybe it's a little. That's fine.

Yeah, I know. Everything's fine. I'm just telling you, if you approach the dude and say, I want a little mold, I can just promise you.

That I can't help you.

The wish can only do big mold. If you want a big mold, call back.

Okay, but this is sort of similar to the question of, like, can I have just a little bit of your sperm also?

Is that also a question?

Yeah. Because we talked about this on race to 35 with Andrew Huberman.

All right.

How would you feel if someone asked for you sperm to be a donor that to me?

Well, we've talked about this under maybe a different guise. No one asking me. But just that would be a no for me because I couldn't handle knowing that a child of mine was alive and I wasn't helping. I know, but a penis of mine out there giving pleasure to somebody you love, some guy or girl who.

Yeah, maybe both. Maybe it gets passed around.

Who knows? Maybe it's a group party everyone has.

Right?

Sounds unhygienic. Well, then I'm sure they could figure out.

I don't think you're really thinking much about hygiene when you're.

You've thrown. Yeah. By the way, if you're worried about hygiene in an orgy, get out of the orgy.

That's not for you.

Not for you.

Well, I don't think it's for me for that reason.

Sure. And that's great.

Well, I don't want to say never.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I agree.

Right. So everyone's got to be honest about it.

Well, you can have cake and eat it too, if you have cake at the orgy.

But ironically, that might lead to more infections than anything anyone else was fearful of.

But it tastes so good.

Yeah. I do think, like, high school kids wound up with Utis and stuff because they got a little too adventurous with the food and stuff they were smearing on each other.

Yeah, Utis, they'll get you.

Okay, so back to the penis mold. You're going to send three emails.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah. Three emails.

Anyone in the whole world. Emails that would go directly to them. Like, not to their. Jimmy, to the. That's wasting too.

You've got a direct line.

Okay.

Hey, it's Monica. I got this really fun thing. It's a penis mold. And I was just thinking of, like, whose penis would I want a mold of? And yours. So if you're up for it, I'll send it over.

Okay. And I have another one more question. Am I allowed to send it to three people? Three different. Am I allowed to collect three?

No. My thought here is just like, you're going to mail to multiple colleges.

Oh, I see. One, acceptance. Yes, I'm going to accept one. Okay.

Feel like we know two of them.

I know. That's why, like, three is a small number.

Okay.

You want to do five?

Yeah.

Okay, let's do five.

Because then two, we know.

Yeah. Matt and Ben, let's just reiterate, because your first episode of Armchair expert Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are number one. And two males sent. Not in that order. No. Particular order.

Particular order. Those two. That would be so interesting to see the difference between those two penises.

Do you think you could tell?

That's a great question. In my heart, I feel like I.

Do think I could tell. I know, me too.

I already feel like I can imagine what they look like.

Sure. Me too. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. Those two.

I feel like you're playing longer than you. I think you know me.

No, I don't. I really don't.

Okay.

Because, look, this is not.

Let's not get into the reality. I know what you're about to say.

What?

Who really wants this penis anyway?

Oh, no, I wasn't going to say. I was going to say it's different than who do I want to get married to? Of course this.

Whose dick do you want inside of you?

Yeah. Which is very specific. Yes, maybe.

Can I suggest one?

Yeah.

Carmelo Anthony.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Because your fucking pants exploded when he was sitting here.

They did.

Again, if you're new to the podcast, your first episode, Monica's wardrobe literally broke in two places while we were doing the interview. The crotch ripped right out and your buttons popped.

They really did.

I know from sitting.

Just from.

Yes.

Yeah. So that's actually a really good pick.

Okay, great.

I think my body is going to respond well.

Yes, clearly, as has already been demonstrated.

And if anyone's married or girlfriended up with these people or you consent in this whole thing, well, that's the thing.

So if anyone wanted a mold of my penis, again, it'd be super flattering and great. Obviously, my first question would have to be like, hold on, I've got to ask my wife if I'm allowed to make a mold. And my wife is.

Never ask her that.

Well, I'd have to ask her no.

You just have to say no because you know that she would not want that.

Let me paint a scenario. I bet you I can paint a scenario virtually. We get a letter from Dame Judy Dench.

Oh, okay.

And she's like, I hope this isn't inappropriate, but I was watching something, and it occurred to me I would love to have a mold of Dax's penis. If this is offensive, my apologies.

She's so polite.

Yes. And playful and fun, and you don't feel like everything's great. So Dame Judy Dench requests a mold of my penis. I would say to Kristen, hey, I got this email from Judy Dench. I'm inclined to make her one.

Okay. And I have a hunch she'll say yes.

Kristen would say yes.

I think you're right.

Yes.

But realistically, it depends on the person.

I know, which is funny, because that just proves how arbitrary in your head.

It would depend on the person for you. If she was molding, it would.

Well, for sure.

You probably wouldn't want Mike to have access to that.

Oh, interesting. I have a sliding scale. This has already happened in real life in the past, which is I have a ton of variety of friends. I've had varying levels of them being inappropriate with girlfriends. I've had. And there are certain friends of mine that I saw more predatorial than others. Brie and I used to play this game. We walk in and we're banging x. What's the reaction?

I love this. Yeah.

Yes. And so always, like, if I walked in and Nate and her were making love, I'd be like, I'm kind of happy for both of you know.

I used to say that about Kristen and Nate, too.

Yeah. I say that about Nate's love to make love to anyone.

Okay, now, hold on. I want to deep dive into this? Yes.

Because I want to make clear it's not pity because Nate's a stud.

That's what I was about to say. Because if I heard that about me, I would take that poorly.

Oh, right. You would think it would mean you're not threatening.

Exactly.

That's not it. So I'm glad we're getting into the granular details of this. Every girl likes Nate.

He's very attractive.

Yes. And his personality is, like, the greatest of all time.

Yeah.

But he would never, ever make anyone uncomfortable or he's just not, like, a hungry, predatorial type.

Yeah. You feel like it's safe.

He's so safe. Yes. And he would never cross run away with them.

Yeah.

He's not trying to get what I have, so he feels better about himself.

Right.

I can isolate when people are trying to get what I have so they can feel above me or superior to.

Oh. As opposed to just being attracted.

Yeah, that's not really.

You're okay with people just being very attracted to her but having nothing to do with you.

Yes. And I told you there was a very weird hookup. Freddie and slip. There was a very weird hiccup in my open relationship with Brie.

Yeah.

Which is like, I didn't care. I was not jealous. But there were a couple of different people over nine years where I just felt like dude on dude when I was around them, I was like, this is more about you trying to alpha me. And something male to mail happened that had nothing to do with whether or not I cared. They did something, and I didn't know about it.

And did you kind of feel like.

It was a challenge?

Do you even like her?

Right. And there's just a couple of different dudes that I felt like, well, this is more of a challenge to me.

Interesting.

And then that became a completely separate issue, but one that did make me interesting against the notion.

Okay.

Yeah. There's certainly a ton of people that I guess I wouldn't care, and then there's a bunch of people I would not want.

And same for her. Right. That's the whole point.

Well, I do wonder. This is what we don't know. Is there anyone she'd be like? Yeah, that's okay.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm inclined to say, like, definitely this dame Judy bench example, I think is a really good one.

Like Meryl Streep, you know what?

Oh, Meryl Streep. Yeah.

I don't know if she'd want.

That's a good one. I'll ask her. I'll ask her.

Yeah. Okay. The reason I feel like the answer is no is because even the idea of asking her this type of question, I feel like she's not going to like this.

Okay. Yeah. It doesn't need to be.

Yeah, yeah.

Even the Judy Dench example.

Because she'll be like, why do you need to do that? These questions, it starts getting out of, like, they're a snowball. Why do you need your penis to be out there in the world?

Right.

And what would you say?

Okay, I'd have two things. One would be, she asked for it.

Yeah.

Dame Judy Dench asked for it.

Yes.

And then I would be honest and go, like, I find it very flattering. And I like the idea that she wants that.

Yes. And she would say, that's mine. That penis is mine.

Yeah. And I'd go, okay.

Yeah.

But I would own that. I feel very flattered by that.

Of course. I think a lot of people would. I mean, I would. If anyone wanted a. Oh, my God, I would love. Very flattering.

But the conversation I'm having now about all this with Kristen is like, now you're getting into this very interesting and dynamic spectrum of what is cheating.

Exactly.

Which is, like.

Exactly.

Never endingly fascinating. And there are so many things for some couples that would be just cheating that are not. For others.

Right.

Everyone kind of gets to set their.

Standard, is this would be. To a lot of people, this would.

Be cheating, which is funny, because it's not cheating. The person's, like, never even touched the person. They didn't witness any of the stuff. Now, if it escalated to like, now I'd like to show you a video of me using it. Now we're definitely. We're inching closer and closer.

Yeah, I think most people.

Still not cheating to me.

Well, to most people, yeah.

I believe you're right that a lot of people would be. But, like, if I walked in and Kristen was watching a video of a guy jacking off that he had sent.

Her that on DM that she knows.

Yeah. It wouldn't be cheating. The fact that she watched it. She was curious and wanted to watch. Don't. For me, that doesn't constitute. Cause, like, what's the difference between that and pornography? So now we've drawn a line between, you can watch pornography, but if you know one of the actors in the pornography, then that's an issue. So that's just a very arbitrary and interesting.

No. If you know them and you talk to them in life and you're around them in life, it's much different than a stranger.

Well, is it different than her just watching once, or what? Do you catch her, like, three weeks.

Later watching it and masturbating it? Okay, great. So this is what I'm suggesting. So, yeah, on the surface, you're like, oh, my God, she's jerking off to this dude that she knows. But if I walk in and she's jerking off watching pornography, the physical reality is identical. She's having a fantasy about other people to climax. And so what I'm really saying is, like, I don't mind her imagining being with these people sexually to climax by herself, but I mind if she's watching someone she knows to climax. Okay, so that seems like an obvious line until you think. I don't think I have a right to tell her she's not allowed to masturbate in her head about people she knows.

Yeah, you don't. You can't.

So all we've added is, like, a video component. Like, I'm fine with her masturbating to people she knows, and then I'm fine with her masturbating to videos if it's pornography. So, weirdly, I don't think it's as.

Clear cut, but it is. Well, it's not clear cut. Again, everyone's making their own rules for this, but it is crossing an emotional line if someone is sending a video that they made for the person.

But let's just say she's never sent anything back. She's just consumed it. Now. Where it gets now, I think you add another layer is like, I walk in and she's facetime. Masturbating with somebody she knows. Then that's, like, time to chat, right?

Yeah. I mean, look again, you're an anomaly. And most people are very uncomfortable, would be extremely uncomfortable.

And I'm not judgmental of those people. I would ask them to not be judgmental of me.

You have your own.

Yeah, I'm just not terribly threatened by that.

I mean, but emotional shit mixed with Physical, the. I think it was Mike.

Sure.

No, I already said this on his episode, so I don't even feel bad saying it again. Like, her and Mike sure, going to a book conference in Pennsylvania for two days. That's way more problematic to me than her masturbating, watching a video of him.

That he sent her. Because that means when they go anywhere is it. Is the chances of them really crossing the line are much higher.

But again, I'm threatened by Mike's philanthropic good nature. The thing I can't compete with. That's the thing that threatens me, is what I can't compete with.

But don't you think part of why she would be masturbating to him is.

Because of the books?

It is. It's because of his whole package. It's not his sexuality. I think one thing, again, that's different often between men and women, women are not necessarily. Which is why, back to the original premise of this whole thing where I'm picking these penises. Right.

But I'm thrilled you're actually excited about this, because I could even see you saying, like, oh, I don't care about the penis. That's where I thought you were going.

To go at one point. And I was like, I am sort of getting there now, unfortunately, but like.

It was going to go.

That's the truth about women. You're attracted to the.

I keep forgetting. I'm so sorry.

It's okay.

Every time you're making a point, I'm.

Like, you're attracted to the whole piece and the personality and the connection, and those things skyrocket the sexuality to a much different level. Of course, that is threatening.

Although women do watch pornography in enormously high numbers.

Totally. But I think they're picturing.

They're projecting a personality onto them.

Yes. I don't think it's just.

That's probably true because I project onto them. And in fact, this is. I've already talked about this, too. But again, if it's your first time, great. This will be your first time.

Welcome to armchair experts.

Welcome.

I hope you're enjoying it. Not normally this pervy, but also, it is sometimes this pervy when I'm looking through the options for pornography.

Even though you don't often look at porn.

I don't. And I think I've been so honest this whole time.

I hope people will believe me.

I think some people watch porn every day. I watch porn, like, probably twice a month. I'll watch porn. Okay, right? 24 times a year, I'll do it.

Okay.

I forget it's even a thing.

Right?

When I do and I'm scrolling through these pages when I'm on high. Look, I know from listening to stern guys are like, they like stepsister porn or they like babysitter porn, right? They have a genre they like. I like porn where I actually think the girl's super into it and getting off.

Right.

And I'm like, want it to be real, Manning. To try to evaluate whether I think this woman's enjoying it or not. That's nice, because my projection is like, giving tons of pleasure in being validated as being good and all that stuff.

Yeah, but yes.

So ultimately I'm projecting. Yeah, we are. I guess I'm at least searching to find the thing. I think that matches what you want in life. So maybe, like, women who have a personality type are like, they're scanning through and then that guy looks like a jock. I don't like that. This guy looks like.

Yeah, probably. Or I just think it's more a whole blown out fantasy versus just sexual pleasure. Yeah. The physicality of it. There's more happening with women, as we.

Learned responsive and or spontaneous arousal people.

Vanessa Marin. Yeah. She's been getting. I mean, people love that episode. It was a great.

Your first time listening. Go back and listen to that one.

Okay, well, I still haven't picked my.

So we got. We have three of the five.

Yeah, we have three of the five. I want Brad Pitt's.

Okay, great.

Yeah, that's the kind.

You know what's funny is if you had this penis collection, I can only imagine there'd be one that when girlfriends came over, you'd be like, you want to see Brad Pitt's penis? You'd probably have it in a loose sight box and show.

Yeah, yeah.

Maybe some lighting. If we interview him, I'm going to ask him. Not for you, but I'm going to ask him, has anyone asked you to make a mold of your penis? And then is it something you would do for somebody?

Okay.

Because that seems like a pretty good interview question.

I feel like maybe out there, because then he'll definitely not coming on. Okay. And obviously, I'm not like, no one in my life is on my intentionally. No one in my life is on my list.

Right. Don't feel.

Charlie.

Yeah. Don't have your feelings hurt, Ryan.

Yeah, exactly.

If you said Rob.

No, Rob's in my life. He can't be on the list.

The looping guy.

I was just thinking about him.

You were considering him.

I was considering him.

We're Donald Glover.

I was considering him. Yeah, I know. Okay, here's the other problem. Yes, Donald?

Just because they have the personality doesn't mean there's an ideal dildo.

Correct. And he's so sexy, but his dick on its own is not so sexy. It's just. Is what? It just is.

Now we're back.

Why? That is why Ben and Matt's are so premium. Yeah. Really? Because I have so much emotional connection to.

Yes. Yeah. You'll hold it and you'll be like, oh, I'm holding his. Wow. Yeah, I'm getting excited just thinking about.

Like, even Carmelo is not that.

Except that's more like, I think you visceral.

I get excited because primal, the way your clothes express. I'm only going to send out three emails.

Wow. Wait, so Donald. No. And Lupin.

No.

I think.

No.

And Brad Pitt. No.

Oh, yeah. Four.

Four.

Yeah.

That's great. You got 80%.

I'm going to think about the fifth.

I want to pick someone weird for you. I want you to do, like, a genius.

Why?

Because maybe there's something special about that. I think you could dial into exactly what we're talking about with Ben and Matt. Like, if you had Einstein's penis.

Oh, we can do ghosts.

No, but I use him as an example of someone that might be thrilling or.

Oh, you know who I'd want to.

Do if it was Shakespeare's penis?

Who's JFK Jr.

Right? You'd love that. Hold it, hold it.

It's just, like, so waspy. It's such a waspy.

The mold was one color, but it comes out like translucent white.

Oh, my God. Or. Never mind.

Do it.

I was going to say, like, someone from high school who I wanted badly.

That's good.

And then I felt bad saying that, because then it felt like a teenage dick. But they're adults now.

Yeah.

I think I would be, like, so mean to that one.

Oh, you would slam it in the door.

Yeah, because it was.

You would hate. Fuck that one.

Yes, exactly.

This is incredible. It's incredible.

Okay, look, it's a ding ding ding. Because this is for Bradley Cooper, a very coveted.

Where most people would want a copy of his dick.

Yes. And I ruled him out because it didn't feel appropriate for this.

Yeah, that's good. That's smart.

Okay. One of the facts is when Bradley says, and you said it too, but him disliking his.

Uh huh.

Which I believe him. Right. Like, he's not. That's true. But it's like, a little bit. It's like when.

Like when Bezos feels broke.

No, but when models go on talk shows and say they were tomboys and you're a little like, oh, God, I.

Know what you're saying. But I think it's different because I think he's not pretending he was a dork in high school. Some of these really hot. Look, there was an Amy Schumer sketch about it.

Famous.

Great one.

Yes.

It's a well worn thing. No, guys liked me, and I was like a gaming nerd. That I think is a lie.

But the problem, I don't think it's fair for us to say that. I know it's just fair.

But there was so many. I know there was so many that there was a sketch about it. So I definitely think they know it's easy to hate someone as beautiful as them and it just feels like less. You would hate them less if you found out that they were an awkward duckling for a while.

That's what we are saying. I don't know, it gives me a little compassion for those women who we've now made. We have made jokes about like, oh, God, like they're saying they're a tomboy or that. Yeah, they some of it ugly ducklings, but they probably were.

Sure. That's possible.

I think it's funny because when Bradley Cooper, who objects exactly, is saying he doesn't like the way he looks. It just is reminiscent to me of when a model goes on a talk show and says they were a tomboy.

So what's interesting, though, is funny. Oh, yeah, I see your point. I recognize your point. I don't see it the same. If Ashton was doing that, that to me would be identical to the models from CWD doing it. There is a class of dudes. If Josh du Mel was saying it and Ashton was saying it and some of these other pretty boy models were saying it, I think for me it would also file into the category of the crazy hot actresses who have done it.

I think it's also hard. You've been friends with him. You've been friends with him for so long and you've been on the ride.

Yeah.

I think it might be hard for you to.

I'm trapped in his lower status.

Yeah.

I'm glad. I am, I guess.

No, you should be.

Yeah.

We met, like trying to claw our way into that number seven on the call sheet of wedding crashers.

So it's just different when he just appears on the scene.

No, I think a lot.

Hangover coming down the escalator. Who is this person?

Yeah. Powerful.

Powerful.

Now I wonder if what he would admit, because I would like to hear it from him and I've never even asked him. I'd like to know if he does acknowledge he has an animal magnetism. Because I could see him not liking his face but recognizing, yes, somehow I do have a major power over girls.

I think he has to know. Well, I don't think so. Based on what he was saying about Leonard and his magnetism and his weapons. He was saying it not like I can relate type of my take from that was that he doesn't recognize that he's him, that he also has all those weapons and does have a magnetism that people are just. Their pants are very drawn to.

Yeah.

Okay, so the catalyst suit, he talks about that he works out in.

Yes.

It's catalyst with a k. Yes. It has EMS technology, electromagnetic surge, and, yeah, you wear it. It's FDA cleared for consumer use. Custom suit sizing, machine, washable textiles.

Oh, wow.

Unlike your I wonder, donut from the apple.

Well, they just arrived by the first meditation this morning with the new donuts on.

Exciting.

And you know what I decided to do is go two tone. So I have the green ones, but then I got the silvery white donuts. And I like how it looks nice.

I like that.

Yeah.

Cool. Okay.

Let me put the green ones in the dishwasher. I'll let you know how it turns up. They're sitting in there right now waiting to be blasted.

Wait, did you really?

Yeah. Tax what?

It's going to make everything so stinky in there.

In the dishwasher?

Yes.

Oh, I don't think so. It's like a nuclear bomb goes off of those things.

Okay, well, it says you can do a full body workout in 20 minutes with zero compromises.

Oh, wow. Good, because I hate compromising.

Yeah. So that's that. Okay. The reality tv show that you wondered if he was talking about but he wasn't is called naked attraction. That's the one where the penises are. Everything gets exposed.

Right. Okay. Now, you know what's interesting? I'm now going to join your side of the street a little bit.

Okay.

Which is. I watched an episode of that or something. What I can relate to is I haven't seen the person yet.

Oh, it's not remotely sexy.

No. Like, I see the vagina and I'm like, yeah. I just don't know what it's attached to. I'm not willing yet.

Interesting. Yeah.

So you realize it is subjective and tied together.

To some degree, it is.

Yeah.

Okay. Why can kids be around Dad's poop?

Did you get some info on this?

I asked Adam Grant if he could help me, if he could point me in the right direction.

Okay.

He gave me.

This is too PG 13 for him. Did he, like, immediately bristle?

I said, I'm sorry. I said, I have a pretty disgusting fact to check. Dax said his kids often come into the bathroom to tell him things while he's going to the bathroom, and they don't seem to care about the smell. Our guests had the same situation with their kid. I wondered if there was some sort of evolutionary explanation for this. Do you know anyone who could answer this? I'm sorry to rope you into this very gross inquiry. And then he responded with, like, this face.

Yeah, exactly.

Like a yikes. But also a laughing face. Okay.

This little that.

And then he gave me an email of someone at Yale. So that's TBD. I haven't.

Okay, great. So this is kind of going to be a multi part exploration.

Also, when I just did this, it reminded me in Mr. And at. She does your.

I know, I know.

She looks in the mirror and makes a horrifying face.

Great things in that show.

Yeah.

She's so good.

She is.

I love when Mr. And Mrs. Smith gets into race stuff. I love it. Yeah, you just don't see it. Everyone's pretending that people talk different than they do.

He gets to tell that side of know.

Yeah. And she gets to tell the asian side.

Exactly.

But I'm just refreshed because these are the real fucking conversations couples have about everybody. No one's putting their best foot forward to appear good in public and not get canceled.

Right.

And you just don't see it on tv anymore. And it's kind of maddening because I know what real life is about. Couples talk about race. They talk about everything.

Yeah. Okay, there's the five minutes of history of music. Leonard.

Oh, fuck, I forgot to look that up.

Yeah, I was going to play it, but this is going long. Okay, so check that out on your own time.

Okay. If this is your first episode, we don't normally give homework, so don't think this is standard.

But sometimes I do probably one in.

About as frequently as I watch pornography. Twice a month.

Maybe you'll get homework. Okay. He says skadoosh when he's talking about his meditation pose. And that's from kung Fu Panda, right? That's it.

I want to say, for the record, I deeply, deeply enjoyed this interview.

Yeah, me too.

And it really stuck with me and it really made some things click for me. And it's one of my favorite chats I've had with Bradley. Well, just like, stuff that then I brought into therapy to kind of discuss. And I just like, when I bring up all the stuff of, like, it's hard for me to watch a guy that I'm on a spectrum of, and these are my qualities I hate. And to hear that he had no defensiveness against that. He was very much like, oh, yeah, I have the same kind of thoughts. And obviously he's been thinking about it for two years. And I've been thinking about it for 36 hours. And so kind of, like, once again, his synthesis of it and maybe his compassion he has for that person was just kind of. I liked observing it. Yeah. I thought it was. Know, coop has a history I have to acknowledge of, like, every five years, he has a little pearl of wisdom. I end up using a. You know, I never even finished my list. It occurred to me after the end of the interview, I said something like that, you've taught me three, actually.

Can you share?

Because I can't remember the third, but the first one. Right. Was it about people talking bad about other?

Yes.

Yeah. So that one was really a light bulb moment. The other was while in a relationship. Not Kristen. Him teaching me how to acknowledge what fear this situation is really bringing up. Because I would say the whole fight, and he would say, wow, if a woman said that to me, I would be feeling very less than. Or I'd be feeling very this and that, and I really couldn't think that way yet. That was 18 years ago or something. I was so stuck on that. That was a mean thing to say to me, or that was objectively bitchy or cruel. And I didn't then think, well, probably that same statement wouldn't affect someone else that had a different set of fears.

Right.

So why does that affect me? Like, adding the piece of why is that so impactful to me? What fear do I have? And then him encouraging me to say to that person, when you said, x, it brought up this fear in me, and I am very insecure about this. And that's the impact. And that felt like if I were to have ever done that in front of a woman, she'd be so put off by me being weak and vulnerable that she'd be out the door. And it was always the opposite reaction. And I did not think that was like a paradigm shift for me.

Yeah. Wow.

That's like the beginning of the whole vulnerability thing, maybe.

Yeah. Change your life.

And then I can't articulate the third thing.

I think I know what it is.

Tell me.

I think I remember it. You were sharing something with him, and then he said, oh, that's why you don't like. Because you're him. Basically, yes.

That was just a really punch in the nose observation. I already knew that, but I was ignoring that. I knew that because I wanted to be judgmental of this person.

Right.

I wanted to hold on to that. My moral, righteous indignation. No, it was a different situation. I remember it very well. And he was basically pointing out like, I felt slighted by somebody very public. And then I was about to be in public and I was going to share that. And I had this all mapped out of why it was fine and why this person deserved that, and they shouldn't acted this way if they didn't want this known. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he listened to this whole story and he's just like, you could totally do that. He's like, but I do think when you engage in negative, then everyone just engages with negative around you and you just start this whole swell of negativity. It never ends anywhere positive. Then maybe that person responds and they are now forced to be negative. As opposed to putting your energy into starting a project that's negative and will result in more negativity. Why not just ignore it and talk about the things that are positive and productive? And again, I'm not articulating that one so well, but throughout the course of this conversation we had, it occurred to me, yeah, I don't want to do that.

That's why I don't ever shit on movies in here. I don't shit on things. I think that came in 2012, me stopping shitting on things.

That's great.

Yeah.

I have a theory that I don't think you like. Right. Which we've talked about it. I think we talked about it last time he was on that. I think he's one of the only people you, what's the word? Really listen to, like can hear.

Yeah, he's in the. Tom Hansen.

Yeah. There's like a very small amount of men, I guess. Well, I'll say men.

That's what it is. Because I think I actually don't have a hard time hearing women or learning from them.

Yeah, I think that's right.

But yeah, I have a real issue with men. And there's very few that I just blindly trust that they're telling me something they believe and not that they have an ulterior motive for me.

I think you look up to him, to Bradley. I do think that. I don't see you have that thing a lot with people.

You're right.

Yeah.

You're absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, I don't know why I would be hesitant to say I look up to him, because I do. I look up to parts of him. I don't look up to him as an know. I don't look up to him. So I guess I'm like nervous people would think. But yeah, somehow Tom Hansen synthesizes things in a way that I can hear what he's saying, and they penetrate my brain, and Cooper, too. And I think, well, I can tell you what both guys share in common, which is they're abnormally truthful about their character defects and their flaws, and so I guess I just trust them a lot more.

Yeah, that's great.

And I think people who are really not trying to hide that stuff about themselves, I can hear a lot better.

Yeah. I also think it's kind of one of those, like, we don't always know why. We don't always know why there are people in our lives who. There's something about them that we want to be or like, or. It has nothing to do with how much you like or love a person.

Yeah, definitely. Hansen and Jimmy are, like, dad figures for me.

Yeah.

And Cooper's a brother figure for me.

Right.

That's why maybe, like, not like, I can't go straight, look up, but I don't know why. Because I look up to my brother. I looked up to him growing up.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I definitely look up to Cooper. That's my conclusion. I think you're right.

Yeah. I think it's nice.

Yeah.

It's good to have people to look up to.

Yeah. It's an act of humility, in a sense. It is why I'm struggling so hard right now.

I know.

I don't think you want to be in a position where, like, a pat on the back from nobody would feel special.

Yeah. Okay, well, this was fun.

Yeah.

So much fun. And welcome for those first time listeners. We love having you. Hope you'll stick around and give us another shot. Love you.

Bye. Love.