Chelsea Handler ReturnsArmchair Expert with Dax Shepard
- 1,419 views
- 19 Oct 2020
Chelsea Handler (Evolution, Chelsea Lately, The Chelsea Handler Show) is a comedian, actress, writer, television host, producer and activist. Chelsea sits down the Armchair Expert to discuss how standup comedy is evolving, how she can tell by body type what drug a person can handle, and she admits that being known for insulting people puts them at unease when she first meets them. Chelsea discusses her path to realizing she wasn’t a very empathetic person, how people should look at change with open-mindedness instead of fear, and how she wanted to attack the issue of white privilege from her own perspective. Dax admits he doesn’t have as thick of skin as Chelsea while she explains the desire to keep putting herself out there in vulnerable ways.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert I'm Dan Shepherd. I am not joined by Miniature Mouse, the Emmy nominated Maximus Maximus as I'm in Detroit and she's in L.A. in the time difference is, well, insurmountable in this case.
But I'm very, very excited to talk about the return of one of my favorite guests, Chelsea Handler.
You know her, of course, from Chelsea lately. Hello, Privilege. It's me, Chelsea and her Netflix special. You got to be kidding me. She's also the author of many best selling books.
And currently she has a new standup special entitled Chelsea Handler Evolution. That's Chelsea Handler Evolution. And it's available to stream on HBO Max starting October 22nd.
So please enjoy Miss Chelsea Handler.
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He's an ultra. Hilaire, who are you on? That was Alison Statter, my manager. How's she doing? Oh, I don't know.
I just saw her last night, so she probably misses me. Is she married? Yeah, with three kids. I can answer it for you. She's miserable. Yeah.
She's actually a happily married person. But I understand what you're saying about people being married right now, being miserable.
I don't care how happily married anyone was eight months ago.
Monika, you're happy that you're single, right? Well, I'm single. Yeah, me too. I'm happy about being single.
It's hard to be happy in general right now, but as happy as can be. Right. How are you doing? First of all, you look fantastic. Have you just, like, done a cleanse or something or a micro dermabrasion?
Yeah, I've probably done a micro dermabrasion. I recently had a facial dacs. That must be what you're saying.
Well, you look fantastic. I'm even going to say you look even better than you do in your standup special, which you looked great in.
Oh, good to see you. Yeah, nice show. Thanks for watching, guys. You're always so complimentary. Well, I'm a big fan of you, Chelse. Thank you. And once again, watching that thing, particularly when you get into the things that annoy you, I have the same thing. My level of angst, when I try to order room service, I have to put my order in and then hold the phone like two feet from me or I'll go berserk as they read it all back.
And then I'm just trying my hardest to be kind and nice. And I'm like, this is so unnecessary for everybody.
And I just feel like for me, I think it's more like I hated rich people. And this feels like something rich people want to be fucking babied and pandered to and infantilized and.
Oh, yeah, I mean, doesn't everyone want to be a little bit infantilized? I don't I don't I want to appear strong and not weak and then I can handle my shit. The last thing I want is for you to think I can't extend to fucking flaps on a portable table.
Oh yeah. See, I don't have a problem with being infantilized. See, that's like probably male versus female. I love it because my parents didn't infantilize me. So I was waiting my whole life to be taken care of.
I was like someone, anyone. Yeah. So now it's my assistant, you know, how pathetic is that? I have to say to my brothers and sisters, we had a family vacation this summer and I had to say to them, I'm like, hey, guys, I need a little bit more like connection and support from you guys. I know you guys think I'm like Miss Independent, but you're my only family. Like, we're orphans now.
I don't have parents and I'm not married. I go, I need you to be checking in and making sure I'm OK. Yeah. The only person I have doing that is a paid employee.
I see my friends, but you know what I mean. I had to be like, very vulnerable because I've spent my life being so tough and like, you know, now I have to overexpressed myself so people believe me.
Yeah, but don't you think that's kind of like the Achilles heel of being? And I'm going to put it in quotes, Alpha for myself. I think I recognize like, well, I want to be in charge.
I want to be the guy with the plan. I want you to count on me. I want you to value that about me. And then yet I'm shocked that no one asked me how I'm doing or if that was rough for me. It's like, well, I'm sending a very clear message, which is I've got everything under control. I don't succumb to any human feelings. It's really for me, my own doing. I recognize.
Yeah, I mean, that's what we always do to protect ourselves. We want to protect ourselves. That's what being strong and fierce and being coming in and being a fixer. Right. Or whatever you want to call it is all about like, I'm going to be strong, I'm going to grow up real quick so that I'm never going to be in a position of vulnerability again. I can relate to that. Yes.
Big time. This special is emotional in a very cool way. And I think just in general. Right. Stand up. It's evolving, right? Like, I'll see. Stand up. That's just good.
The jokes are good and I'm like, OK, but I need a story or I need a message. I need a theme like and I think maybe because of Chappelle, I imagine is why I now have come to expect some kind of point of view or conclusion. Do you think it's evolved? Oh, totally.
I mean, I didn't do stand up for the last six years because I didn't have anything new to say, you know what I mean? And it became meaningless to me to just, like, tell jokes without a narrative. So when I came back around this time, like, you know, I was on a book tour and then that turned into a standup tour, which I wasn't expecting to do. And then I realized, like, oh, I have a narrative now, like, this is meaningful to people.
This is a true really like emotionally embarrassing, humiliating, funny story that is a human story. And after I saw Hanna Gadsby and saw that you could take a serious moment and put it in the framework of a one hour standup special, I was like, oh, it can be done.
And then I was like, I want to do it my way. You know, that's what's so powerful about Chappelle. Like, he's not for sale. He never has been. He's always doing his thing the way he wants to do it, because he loves comedy and he loves the deep. A message within it, you know, and he doesn't, like, hit you over the head with it, he's clever about it. That's why people look at him like he's a comedy God, because he kind of is he's created a whole new genre almost.
Oh, yeah, I totally would agree. But yours falls into this fun pattern. You just kind of expose your shitty behavior and your shitty opinions.
You become self-aware about what a cunt you've been. Right. So you're like, OK, this is bad news and then you have to try and organize. You're like new awareness with your old personality. And it's so confusing.
It is. And then so you kind of like putting yourself in a hole. All your setups are kind of like putting yourself in a hole that you're just a piece of shit. But then you let us in on the fact that you recognize you're a piece of shit and you know, you're actually taking a step or two to not be a piece of shit. And it's a fun pattern.
And once you kind of clicked into it, as you're exposing more pieces of shit, parts of your personality, like how the fuck are you going to dig yourself out of this one? There's some anticipation that's really fun. And then when you do it, when the turn comes, I'm like, oh, my God, she's back here with us.
Oh, well, thank you. What a good review, DAX.
I mean, that's so impressive. That was very thoughtful.
It had me thinking, well, isn't it funny? Sometimes you do shit and it's to the viewer or to the audience. It seems intentional. It can occur to you later that it was, but that you weren't even aware of it. If that makes any sense, like our show, I don't know what our show's about until we did it for a while and people told us what it was, I was like, you're right. That's what it is.
I don't I didn't know that. Yeah.
I mean, in my experience, the more honest that I am, the more well it's received and the better it feels. You know, I've always kind of been honest, but, you know, you have all these like what we're talking about earlier, you know, being like known for insulting people, you know, puts people not at ease when they meet you.
Yes. Yes. I was, like, surprised about that. Right. Everybody's scared of me. Like, why does it anyone. No one said anything. Actually, it wasn't until I really thought about it and reflected, like, of course, they're worried I'm going to, like, skewer them on television or something, you know, at that time.
Well, just to remind people, if they didn't listen to our first one or if they have forgotten our first interaction on your show is like I went in knowing because I was promoting a movie I was in that my girlfriend was the star of. And I am like, it's just sitting right there. There's no way she's not going to say, my girlfriend got me the role, which you did.
And then I immediately had in the chamber. Well, your boyfriend got you a fucking show, so I guess you're doing a little good.
And I had to come with, you know, with the arrow in the quiver and yeah, we had that funny real you anyway, you know what I mean?
You guys get what I'm saying. We've talked about this anyway before. But yes, self-awareness is really like a horrendous journey if you're really willing to get real, which is why so many people stopped going to therapy after their third session because they're like, oh, I don't even want to go down that road.
Yeah, I wanted to have a pity party where you were like, yeah, your parents were terrible. And then I wanted it in there.
You just it. Right, exactly. And then I'm great.
Yeah, I think that's awesome because I do think a lot of people are afraid to start pulling back the layers because then they get exposed of all the shitty things they've done.
And it's hard to reconcile and it's super uncomfortable, like it's not relaxing, it's super uncomfortable.
And those things become like what made us succeed in some ways are is what attracted our friends to us. And so the notion of getting rid of that key ingredient seems like it's existential that is threatening all these other areas of our lives.
Yeah, for sure. Because you're like, oh, wait, I have this new personality where I am self aware. Where's my edge from before? Am I still allowed to operate like that? Like that's what makes me me. And now I have to like sand down the edges. How much. Yeah. How much are you willing to give away for your own real like essence of who you think you are or your personality anyway. Essence seems like a pretty heavy word for it, but you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, but weirdly like your stand up, your current stand up revolution is what it's called evolution.
Revolution that didn't come through correctly on our link for me. Oh, you know, it was going to be a revolution. That's probably why with the R crossed out. But then we settled on evolution because it would be too hard for people to deal with on the you know, on the eve of a civil war.
Yeah, it doesn't sound exactly like that to.
Yeah. The thing fell into this pattern that I love about eight shares, which is generally in my meeting, at least dudes exposed themselves as having been a terrible husband or dad or having some grandiose fantasy about who they are. And then they they're telling on themselves and then they go. And then I remembered I had to do this. So it's like you can still do it all weirdly. You can have your cake and eat it, too, like you can still be a piece of shit is just you just got to own it.
That's really the only responsibility anyone's asking of anyone. Right? It's like no one's expected. And you not to be a piece of shit, they're just hoping that you recognize when you're a piece of shit and you apologize for it and you do what you can to clean up the mess you inevitably make.
Yeah, and not to continue to repeat to be a piece of shit you might like, you have to kind of amend your behavior if you've acted badly.
And I, too, believe that everyone is capable of forgiveness or, you know, I want to be capable of forgiveness to anyone. And that is it. It's like when guys apologize after there's been an accusation or multiple accusations with sincerely and come forward. And I'm like, listen, wow, this isn't something that I was well versed in. I had no idea how I'd overstepped. And it's sincere that, of course, we should forgive people. Absolutely.
It's inhumane not to.
Yeah. I mean, I haven't even had one of those accusations, thank God. Not yet. Not yet. This interview's not over. Yeah.
My joke to Kristen is every time something comes out, I go, tick tock, tick tock.
But even within what I think is semi feminist point of view, I am like monthly recognizing I have layers of misogyny I just wasn't even aware of.
Like we're watching TV, Chris, tonight. I'm so aware of the aging female and I'm not aware of the aging male. I'm like thinking about her age.
The whole show admitted to Kristen. She's like, Yeah, I am too. And I'm like, yeah, that's fucking baked into us.
Yeah. It's like racism. It's ignored in us. So we're operating in a system that we haven't even learned about. How sad is that? And so, like, you know, a few years ago, we're all coming to grips with our own privilege and our own sexism, our racism. I mean, it's almost like white people are just finding out about racism. You know, what a privilege to have. Not now. Yeah. And so everyone is just like, shit, what are you doing?
How are you doing? The levels of insecurity are so high because people are scared and they're operating out of fear. You know, everyone's so fearful right now. Yeah, I hear you. I totally can relate to it. And I can relate to, like, a lot of white males being like, whoa, wait. You're also being like, oh, shit, is the party over?
Like you're going to tell on us now, you know? And it doesn't have to be that way.
It's not like a zero sum game. And I think whenever we all come to Jesus together and realize, OK, listen, we all just need to be really well educated and respectful of one another and like kind and loving and all of that shit needs to be, like, employed into our children's schools.
Psychologists will say when you threaten people's identity, that's when they're going to fight for their lives. Right. Like if you're really trying to threaten who they think they are.
So I have to imagine all of us wake up in the morning and think we're kind of good person. No one would wake up and go like I'm an evil motherfucker and I'm in love in it and I'm going to keep going. We all kind of think we're good people. So if you point out something that is antithetical to being good, which is some level of racism, it's quite threatening to who you think you are. So I understand the defensiveness of it because it's your identity and no one's walking around thinking I'm a race.
Well, white nationalists are. But, you know, most people aren't walking around going like I'm a racist son of a bitch and I love it.
Even they don't think they're racist. They just think they're right. Well, they think they love white people and white people need to.
That's the way it should be. Not that it's racism. Yeah, but and then that's just like a lack of history. Like we don't understand what the hell we did to black people. There are not enough white people in this country that understand that we were selling them like, you know, cattle and enslaving them and stealing them from their families. And they don't think there's any responsibility to our generation because we were here, even though we stole twelve generations of black people, twelve generations, we did that and then we still do it.
It's just now under laws that protect the killing of black men, you have to be a police officer to kill one. Now, you know, that's yeah. It's systemic and disruptive. It is. And so we're sorry. I know I keep going to racism. You're talking about sexism, but it's my, you know, passion thing right now.
It's all there. All right. Is all fallout from a white patriarchal society that we've all lived in. I would actually argue people do get slavery.
So it's like, yeah, the big forest fire was out. The one you understand you shouldn't own people. That's pretty self-evident. But they're failing to recognize then what followed that and then what followed that. And then we don't give loans to people and then we forbid people to sell their house to black people. Like all these things in acquiring wealth like those are the things that are are not as loud and obvious that people just need, I think, education on.
People don't seem to get the the domino effects of that kind of system and the fact that this country was built on that system. We've signed the Declaration of Independence when we had two hundred thousand slaves saying we want freedom, freedom, freedom for all men while we enslaved two hundred thousand people. So. America isn't yet what it could be. It really never has been, but it can be it's the idealistic version right now of what we can all do when more women are in power and making decisions and white men aren't a dominant caste system.
I'm reading that book cast by Ingrid Wilkinson right now.
I'm trying to have her on. Was it? Yeah. You guys have to get out. The book is so intense. I mean, it's so well-written and it's so educational. It talks about how the knots sorry, this is heavy, but she cares. We're going to get to the funny jokes stuff. We broke the comedy special back to the Holocaust.
They talk about how the Nazis studied, you know, Jim Crow South in America to figure out how to oppress the Jews and how to make them into a subjugated caste. And that's what this book tells you. All this information that, you know, like I think I'm joke, but you're never really that may be the only thing Germany's copied us on.
I mean, generally, they had a better school system and better engineering.
This is there. So there you go. Kudos to us once more. Yeah.
I want to wrap this up with one thought, which is what your your white privilege documentary come out 19 or 18.
Two thousand nineteen. Yeah.
OK, so here's what I realized the other day. We interviewed Bob Woodward and, you know, I had to listen to all those tapes back and forth and to hear Bob Woodward be very, very both educated and having internalized the concept of white privilege, which I'm going to tell you was hard for me to get to. You know, I'm like my brother fucking I was poor of divorce.
Violence was my privilege. I started there and then my little gateway was. Oh, yeah. And you'd also be in prison being the drug addict you were for all those years if you were black and then building upon that. But anyways, to see Bob Woodward at nearly 80 years old have an understanding of that and speaking pretty profoundly on it, I realize. Oh, it's it's kind of disseminated. But you really were one of the vanguards of that when you did it.
It was we were not where we're at now. It was still very triggering, I think, to a lot of people.
And I just wonder if there's any not that you would ever want to brave for doing that, but is there any satisfaction in going like I took a swing and thank God, you know, people are more and more open to this notion.
No, I mean, yeah, it was a little bit before the big before George Floyd. Yeah. But Black Lives Matter had been going on for a while. And I definitely wanted to attack the issue of white privilege from my own perspective, because, like, look where I'm sitting, you know, and in my life or just by the way, I said thank you.
We've never been invited to a pool party, is it?
Maybe it's because we don't do Molly, but we can right now.
We only do Molly pool parties there. You have to have Molly to get into it.
I wanted to hang out my own white privilege. You know, I wanted to like obviously a white person can't make a movie about white privilege unless you're going to be like, hey, look at me and my dumb ass thinking that I got everything I deserved because I'm so talented. It's like, no, no, no, no. There's a bigger story there. You know, there's a bigger story with how much you get away with, you know, as a person.
And my ex-boyfriend from high school who is black is in the documentary and we revisit him. And we got caught with dime bags like two or three times in high school. And he was arrested both times. And I was let go both times. Yeah. So it's like you're looking for one person to mess up and you're looking for the other person to give a favor to.
When that happened, did you file it into oh, this just happened because I'm female and he's male or I'm younger and he's older or recognized. Oh, it's because I'm white.
No, I totally was delusional. I thought, oh, I'm pretty or I'm I'm a girl and he's flirting with me. Right? Yeah, like, whatever. I mean, I was so clueless. And that's what you you know, when you're saying, like, the stuff that you're admitting to seeing when you're watching television with Kristen, you know, it's important for all of us to say the things that were ashamed of out loud. It's important to recognize that we have bias and that, you know, you're not a bad person because of it.
You're a product of a culture that taught it to you. And we have to kind of just just mansel it. And it takes a lot of retrograde behavior. You know, we have to really deactivate all of the stuff that we've been taught. So it's not that you're guilty. It's just that you have to be really just kind of more alert to it, I think.
Yeah, we had this guy on who is an expert on systems and he said whatever result you're looking at is the result of a perfectly designed system to create that result. Does that make sense, like you could say, oh, the school system should be doing this and we have these policies. But when you look at the result, the result is a result. So what you know is that that system is perfect for creating that result. And again, I think that's also encouraging for other people.
It's like it's not so much about the people as it is about the system that's creating the people. And there's a lot more to me optimism. And then I can't police how everyone thinks, but we can police how we incarcerate people. We can police how we do a bunch of different things that can help.
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot more that we can be doing. You know what I mean? And I just feel like, you know, when you have a lot of privilege and you have a big platform, you got to shout about the things that you really care about because it's not about you. You know, at a certain point you have to realize, OK, we have to give back. You can't just sit here collecting paychecks and not do anything meaningful with it, you know, and just sit on.
I mean, I'd love to sit in my shoes all day and just smoke joints. And a lot of the times I do I do that like on a regular basis, but I don't do that every day, you know, I try and give back.
OK, now here's a really funny parallel that I saw in the standup special, which was making me laugh with embarrassment, which is I too am the family doctor. I'm the doctor and our friendship circle. My brother was visiting and his shoulder was hurting. And I'm like, well, take a shot of my humaira.
I mean, that's a very that's a very serious immunosuppressant. My wife was like, you cannot be giving your brother Humaira.
You know, he's got to get tested for TB and he does not have TB. Give him a shot. He call, man, I feel fantastic. I'm like, great. Well, now go to the doctor, make sure you don't have TB and then keep on it. And similarly, I'll give out anything. And I have the same exact relationship to drugs as you, which is like I do well with them.
I don't get out of control.
I don't lose my well, I don't know that you're sober for a reason. That's something. All right. And maybe I maybe you heard I just relapsed on opiates. But side note, I didn't ever go berserk. And when I was on shrooms, I wasn't the guy who lost his wallet was pissed in his pants. And when I did Coke, you know what I'm saying?
Like, there's for me at least, was a faux level of like I handle it all. Well, I don't have bad trips. Like, as you were saying. Did you really relapse? Yeah. Yeah, I did. I didn't know that. I'm sorry. It's OK.
I had a bunch of surgeries and then I decided when the prescriptions were done that it was time to just get some and manage it. And then it didn't it didn't pan out as you would expect.
OK, well, I'm glad you're talking about it. That's good. Right from your accident, right? You had a motorcycle accident, right?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, that is another question I have for you. I'm going to get to that. But when you were saying you can kind of look at somebody and be like, you know, what your things should be is you should be on edibles, you need Adderall big time.
I can tell by a body type what person needs what drugs. Like if you're going to respond well, like, I would definitely no, you should not have been taking opioids. I can tell that Monica could probably handle them. Fine. Thank you. You know, I can with edibles once I'm able to because, you know, the opioid industry obviously is disgusting and the pharmaceutical industry is discussing it. It's such a nice opportunity to be able to pivot from, like the cannabis industry into weed and edibles and also like it reduces your need to drink alcohol if you're a drinker, which for me was like, you know, a sentence I never thought I'd say.
But I'm so good with diagnosing what people need, especially with edibles. Like, I know if my friend can have a five milligrams or ten milligrams or if this is going to be too much for her, you know, because people are pussies, they can't handle that. I mean, I can I can handle a lot of stuff. Sure. But a lot of people cannot. And it's people that you sometimes like it. It's counterintuitive. It's like, you know, heavier people sometimes are the biggest lightweights.
Oh, I have a friend who's an E.R. doctor in the emergency room at Cedars, and she said that when they get the shut ins that come in, which is about, I don't know, once a month at Cedars, they bring someone in who hasn't left their house in years. And those people that are very, very heavy, like over 400 pounds, they can't even give them a Vicodin. They'll stop breathing. And I'm like, oh, that's so counterintuitive.
You'd think you'd be able to give them, like, horse tranquilizers.
Three Vicodin. Yeah, but not the case.
Now, let me ask you, do you think you and I are physiologically different or do you think are wanting to be in control or wanting to be strong or wanting to be powerful, that we have willed that reaction to all these things?
Yeah, maybe. I mean, I don't think everybody who feels that they want to be those things necessarily achieves them. I don't know. I haven't experienced a lot of people have said they wanted to be powerful and not accomplish it.
But that's another hard conversation people would have a hard time having, right?
Yeah. I mean, do you find that? Well, that's what I'm saying.
I don't know if it's a chicken or an egg. I just know that from the age of 12, I was trying to demonstrate to the world at all times that I was immortal and powerful and could ride wheelies and could jump ship and when fight guys and girls and would take all the drugs. So I'm inclined to think I have a physiological advantage. I mean, I can drink a fifth of Jack Daniels and still ride a motorcycle a lot. Most people can't.
So I don't I don't know. I'm genuinely curious. Yeah, I don't know either.
I mean, it could be a mental advantage. You know, it's a mindset also more than anything. Yeah.
It's like riding the line. Right. Like, I feel like I'm pretty good at like staying right on the line where I would start feeling a little queasy.
Yeah, absolutely. When I go skiing with my girlfriends like I'm a maniac maniac, like I see off a cliff last year in Whistler, Canada, and literally like back down a mountain, I mean, skate off a cliff and landed so quickly that I skate up it without trying to and then back down. These guys were clapping when I landed because they thought it was intentional. And then I chose to wipe out and they were like, oh, that's not that cool.
Did you have any thought of, like, I'm going to take my goggles and helmet off so they know it's me? Not only do you see something cool, I'm also a coward actor, but that. Hey, that's surprising.
No, no, no. I didn't feel the need to do that.
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OK, my family, my brother and I screamed at the top of our lungs to each other, we fist fought hourly and the conversations at the dinner table were screaming and everyone was fine with it. And I was very much misled to think that the rest of the world communicated that way. And it has taken me a lifetime to recognize that the way I'm talking to people is not comfortable for them. And that was something that kind of came up in your special.
When did you realize that? Mostly through Kristen and Monica. We get into it. I will start saying fuck often. And that for Monica is like that, I hear.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can't really continue this conversation. If you're immediately at a 10 and you're screaming fuck at me, like we can't get serious.
That's totally how I was, I think. But I mean, I would just be like such a bully. And if people disagree with me, I'm like, you're wrong, you're a fucking idiot and you're wrong. And I was confident about my opinion.
I was like, what is everyone's problem?
Well, in our defense, I believe if I hadn't taken that position, I would just get fucking run over my family.
Yeah, I hear you about that. You're seeking confidence and attention like we all want attention. Let's not pretend we don't.
Oh, no, I need it all.
And I hate other people who are trying to get attention in a manner I don't approve of totally. I'm at a dinner party.
I'm I fucking hate this guy. He's like trying to get sympathy. I hate I hate that approach to getting attention. Is it any less disgusting?
Do you find yourself to be very judgmental of others on that note?
Only when they're doing the shit I'm doing that I hate about myself, truly, I don't think I ever have a problem with someone's shittiness when it's not my own shittiness. I can just see it for what it is. Oh, that's kind of a bad personality trait. It doesn't make me emotional, but if somebody has got a good calm going, I'm like this fucking you know, this is totally, totally I have something like that.
I'm like, oh, please, I can't even fucking hear her name. She's so ridiculous. It's like, why do I care?
Yeah, I know I care because I hate that about myself. OK, I just want you to tell us about going out to eat in L.A. First of all, L.A. vibe is a lot different than anywhere else in this country.
People go out to order and act like they're at their house, you know, ordering from their chef. So it's a lot of, like, embarrassing orders. And then you become the embarrassing person.
At some point you're like, I have no problem going into a restaurant and, you know, getting a chicken sandwich with no, no, no chicken on the chicken and chicken over here.
And like, you ask for things that you never believed you would even be capable of asking. You just have to be here for two years. But people who don't pay attention to servers because I was a waiter for like five years. So I'm very sensitive to servers and obviously their plight and how miserable their fucking jobs are. So we were out to and this is when I was first going to therapy and I was like first basically facing the idea that maybe I had an attitude problem.
Right. Maybe. And I had just come from lunch with, like three of my girlfriends and one of them ordered a turkey burger, no onion, no bun, no cheese.
And then I was, you know, just rolling my eyes immediately. And then the waiter comes over. I didn't say anything right away and it was right after the election. So I was extra pissed. That really set me off. Right.
And he was holding like four giant plates and he's like, you know, turkey burger, no onion, no bun, no cheese.
You know, I'm immediately looking at him like, let's give this guy a load off. And she's just sitting there like, you know, Stevie Wonder at the piano, just smiling, happy, clueless as to what's going on. There's not even a waiter there. We may as well not even be in a restaurant as far as she's concerned. And I just fucking lost it. I was like, I you fucking cunt is not the turkey burger.
Does the person just be standing there for five minutes repeating everything they're holding?
And I, I just lost it. I was like so mad I could even eat my meal.
My other two girlfriends are like, dude, relax, you know, what is your problem?
I mean, they didn't say that, but they looked like like I don't think anyone had to say it. It was like, oh, God, you again. So it was like at that point where my anger and outrage had reached a crescendo where everybody annoyed the living shit out of me.
You know, people still annoyed me, but I now have tools to deal with it and not judge people so harshly. Right. Right.
But that was definitely at the peak.
Yeah. So you got yourself to a position right. Where you were so upset with the election results, you know, is really starting to affect your daily and hourly life as you move through the world enough so that you finally saw some counseling. And the counselor pretty quickly zeroed in on this notion that maybe you're not very empathetic and then you take the time to explain the difference between empathy and sympathy, which I think is very useful. So tell us, what is the difference?
Well, I didn't I thought empathy was just like being a Republican. You know, I was like, wait, no empathy. That's that sounds like a Republican. But then I was like, go draw the distinction again, I said to my guy that I was seeing that I was like, draw the distinction between empathy and sympathy and sympathy is obviously when you feel pity for someone, when you do something nice for another person that you feel sorry for or that's in a bind.
Empathy is actually imagining what it's like to be that person that's going through the difficult time. So we talked about sympathy and I was like, oh, yeah, I would get you know, I would help strangers. I would give anything to anybody to help them, like, no problem there. And he said, what are you thinking about what it's like to be them?
I'm like, no, that's depressing. Like. Right, right. Right, right.
He's like, that's empathy. And I'm like, shit, how do I get some?
I worked my ass off my whole life, so I didn't feel that way. Why on earth would I choose to feel the way I was avoiding for the last 20 years?
Yeah, exactly. So then I was just like thinking about all the different times where I lacked empathy, you know, like I remember seeing that movie called me by your name when I went in and it was a gay love story.
And I'm with one of my gay friends. Five minutes in. I had no idea what the movie was going in. And as soon as I realized it was a gay love story, I was like, oh, my God.
Put Is this a gay love story? Like, shut up. Like, you are so selfish.
And I'm like, oh my God, that is so unsympathetic. I mean, gay people have had to sit through our fucking straight love stories. Oh, yeah. Since the beginning of time.
It is crazy. I mean, you really got to imagine that you're straight and you grow up in a world where everyone is gay and you've only watched a fucking night. Don't you want to know all the dudes were dating and all the women were dating and there was no you never saw it. I mean, you really got to think that. The other thing, like, crossed my mind is like four women growing up going into each classroom and there's like twenty pictures of awesome dudes who've changed the world and you never see yourself.
I have my own issue with the Bible, you know, like did women get involved at all in this, you know, where are they?
And you got to stop and try to imagine that experience. Yeah.
Imagine what it's like to be, you know, a gay person if you're not a gay person.
Now, I just in honor of gay people, I have gay porn on on all of my televisions all day long running on a loop.
OK, the other thing I love about you is almost everything seems to make you horny and like the way you're describing going to the nail salon and having some bad thoughts, I'm like, you get it.
It can be anything. I think mine's rooted in dysfunction, but I don't know if you have a healthy horniness. I don't know.
I don't think I have a healthy horniness. I think I might lack horniness, actually, quite frankly. I mean, I'm definitely not actively having a lot of sex or thinking about having a lot of sex. I mean, I'm open to it, but it's not I don't feel exceedingly horny.
I think I was drawing the distinction between men when they get horny and women when they get horny.
And their reactions, which are for men, is to pull their dicks out and just ejaculate onto whatever they're closest to and where the women were able to control ourselves and understand that we can't just start finger blasting ourselves in the middle of a nail salon or let anyone else do that with us.
You're so right. My best friend, Aaron Weekly, we used to work at this place in Troy, Michigan. And on the same industrial court, there was the I'm afraid to say this because it's probably still open, but the most disgusting restaurant imaginable called Boodles.
Oh, at some point I said, do you imagine eating at Boodles? And Aaron goes, No, I've been in there like ten times, but I've never eaten there. What do you talk about? It's like, oh, jerk off in the caboose bathroom some time because, you know, we're at work and I just got to swing over there and get into a stall and spray somewhere. And that caboodle is the closest. And I thought, man, that is a serious thing to have to go to Boodles midday.
I mean, I'm glad that that is the difference between women and men.
Right. Monaca, have you ever known any woman that's masturbated onto a plant now? But I know a bunch of men who have.
It's so disappointing because also women have to understand what it's like to be a guy. You know, it's not your fault necessarily either that you guys are kind of disgusting, you know.
Yes. Earned and picked up. Need to fucking spray midday. You know, you would have someone to come loose if he did.
And I think, well, that's probably not true either. But but we need to understand that you guys have grown up in this culture, too. And so you behave the way you do because you're a product of your environment. You know, it's I don't want to say it's not your fault because we now are getting educated. So we all have to take responsibility. But we have a lot of work to do. And it needs to start with, you know, less public ejaculation.
Yeah, my place to start. Yeah. That's a good place for her. That's a good. Yeah. Like a little bar to set.
I don't think I have a single male friend that hasn't jerked off in the airplane bathroom and I don't think I have a single female friend who has done it because it's so foul in there even as the guy you're like trying to ignore a lot of stuff, you see.
Oh yeah, those are great. I mean, to Matt. In that bathroom is so close to even go to the bathroom and that bathroom is yeah, but it's because men are used to getting what they want when they want it right now. And so if you feel like you're horny, you're like, yep, I'm going to I'm going to figure out a way to come on the closest thing near me, as opposed to a woman who's like kind of used to a slow burn if if they get anything at all, you know, so it's like I can hold off.
Well, I think that's certainly part of it.
There's also a biological part of it. Well, it's true.
We have testosterone and you have estrogen. And that's my next question. You took testosterone cream, which I love. Did you feel hornier?
Well, so my doctor was like, you're very low on testosterone. I'm like, that's weird. I'm pretty angry.
She's like, pretty aggressive, pretty aggressive. And she said, no, you're low on it. You don't have any of it. And so I she's like, it's good. You know, when you're losing your hormones, it's good to kind of replace them, you know, if you want to keep maintain those levels. I didn't ask tough questions at that time about what testosterone did. And then like a couple of months later, I was like the front of my hair was like getting thin and there was like hair coming out.
And I was like.
And so I went to my doctor and I told her. And she's like, Well, are you taking testosterone? I'm like, Yeah, bitch. You prescribed it to me.
I'm like, So what are you what do you mean? That's why my hair is like thinning. She goes, well, sometimes testosterone can make your hair thin. And I said, well, what is testosterone giving me in the first place?
And she said, it's giving you energy and a sex drive.
And I'm like, So I can be bald and horny like, no thanks, I'm not taking that anymore. I'd rather be alone and have hair.
OK, really quick, you're pointing out what could be the worst scenario for you is bald and horny. Right? And guess what? Half of America is made up of men and half of them are bald and horny. It's a it's a death sentence.
So then they should be allowed to ejaculate. No, it does not. It does not. But we could have a little bit of empathy to figure out how we prevent them from fucking spraying on plants.
I agree. No one should spray on plants. And also twenty five percent of America's bald and horny. Yeah, there are.
That explains a lot of our problems, probably. You know, that's why people are angry, because they're bald and they're horrible.
And then that can turn into white supremacy if it's not monitored closely.
But did you feel hornier with the testosterone? Yeah, I stopped taking it, obviously, but no, I didn't feel horny. Or I mean, I get turned on when I'm into somebody, you know, when I have somebody that I have to focus on, not as an abstract idea, like when I am into somebody totally, but not in my spare time. I'm not just sitting at home masturbating, you know.
Well, I can just share you my experience, which is there is the thing you have, which we also have, which is we fall in love with people and we want intimacy with people and we want to connect with them. And also we would fuck a pile of wood hoping there was a snake inside.
Let me think about that for a second. It's a great joke, my older friend told me, hoping that there was a snake inside. I don't get that joke.
You would just rub in anything that was soft or warm.
Oh, I think there's two things. There's like young boys, it's pretty unanimous. They're all jerking off every single day and sometimes two, three times a day. Oh, shit.
Did you guys lose me? No, we hear. We hear you. See you anymore. Oh, wait. I see what happened.
One sec. One sec. You guys.
Brandon's coming up to help me. No worries because I can't do anything on my own.
OK, ok guys, I'm back. OK. OK now. Wonderful, wonderful. Wonderful.
So yes, I'm not going to relent on the fact that there is a biological component.
I think it's a very complicated stew. That is the male. I think you made your point. OK, thank you. Thank you for letting me make my point. And I didn't say fuck wants to make my point, which I'm so pat myself on the back.
Was that your assistant who checks in on you. Mm. Yeah. Brandon, he's lovely looking. Yeah he is.
How do you decide whether you're going to have a male or a female or a gay or straight assistant. Is there thought that goes into that. Not really, no. No. If you dig someone's vibe you're you're in. Yeah.
Yeah. He's been with me for like I mean he was an intern on Chelsea lately. OK, I originally originally and then he came to work for me like three or four years ago. So yeah. Most people I work with are from Chelsea lately. That's great. Yeah.
Well you could you zip recruiter. I'm just going to say most most people find a qualified candidate four out of five times. OK, I want to talk about edibles because you love them. I just want to start with saying I am very pro edibles. I am pro marijuana. I don't think there's really any difference for many people between an edible and an antidepressant. I think it's kind of nature's antidepressants. Yeah, really. I'm definitely pro them.
So there's zero judgment. You love them. I see why you love them. They've benefited you in many ways, you drink less, you have fun with your family members, I get it. But is there any part of your brain that's like, but why do I desire a different state at all? Yeah, totally.
I mean, I just like altered states in that you have to accept about yourself. Like when we started quarantining for the first two weeks when we thought it was going to be two weeks, you know, I treated that like spring break, like I just went off. I was like, OK, I've mushrooms. I have I have edibles, I have capsule edibles, I have THC, pure edibles. Like, I took that as my, like, discovery time.
And then after two weeks, you're not interested, you know what I mean?
Like, well, then the altered state is sobriety. So it's like you click. Yeah. So then you flip back and you're like, all right, I'd rather take a break from edibles. Well, eventually you have to show you're not brain dead. You know, you don't want to overdo everything. And I have a pattern of overdoing things and then I just get it out of my life, you know, like I'll be like, oh, I can't do that anymore.
I blew it, you know? Yeah.
But I always will be open to reintroducing it. But I have to behave myself. I can't just be like a lunatic, you know what I mean? I have rules about that kind of stuff.
But with edibles, it's almost like the way that micro dosing works is it's so helpful you can attain what you're after. Like, if you're trying to have a little bit of an upper and you're going to dinner and you don't want to drink, then that's what it can provide you with. If you want to get creative, then there are certain strains that can provide you with that. So it's like you're in control of cannabis rather than cannabis controlling you.
And that's what I like about it. It's almost imperceptible with micro dosing, in my opinion, in the terms of effectiveness. Like if I'm going to have a day where I want to be like creative or something or be writing, then I just want a little bit. That gives me a little I don't want to be overtaken by the cannabis. That's not my first desire. It was for a long time and I've experimented with that. But that's why I love drugs, is because they're such a big spectrum of feelings and different ways of looking at the world and looking at yourself and looking at life like I love altered states.
Yeah, I do think it's funny, though. Dan Savage says that he does miss the days of the pot brownie lottery.
Like, are you going to get the one with six hundred milligrams with three. Yeah. Right, exactly. Browny that's a lot.
Yeah. It depends what part of my thought cycle I'm on.
It made me just think, you know, when you're describing your brother in the relationship you had, I just related very much to I didn't have a dad around and I had a brother that was five years older than me and that we had a quite often a parent child relationship as opposed to like a sibling relationship. And I think in the past, when I've done like any kind of analysis of why I'm the way I am, I'm focusing on my parents.
But more and more and more, I just keep thinking I probably need to look more into the relationship with my brother and I because he was raising me.
But he was only fucking nine. You know, who's qualified to raise a kid at nine and then at twelve. So I think so much of my stuff is really more sibling than parent. Do you find that?
Well, I think it's like an attachment figure, right? Who's your attachment figure? And you can have two. But like, you know, I found out through therapy that one of my attachment figures wasn't my father. It was my brother that died and it was my mom and my sister. Like, you can have multiple, but it's like, who are you attached to and relying upon? I mean, that makes perfect sense, what you're saying.
Yeah, your brother was like a parent, so, you know, you start to think of them that way. Yeah.
So here's another thing I was wondering. As you've gotten more and more open and you made yourself incredibly vulnerable in that special and got emotional, when you have gotten vulnerable and owned these things about yourself, is it easy for you to do when you control it and then hard for you to do when you don't control it?
Well, in the special, I just let it be real, like I just try to be real. I can't manufacture that stuff, you know, and you can't control it really. Like, you just have to be like in the moment and see what happens. So the special ended up like hitting me, you know, in a way that it was captured. You could you know, you could see it. So it was just being real. It was like being real with the moment I've done that show plenty of times where I've gotten emotional and plenty of times where I haven't.
Yeah. And it just depends, you know, and when I'm really present, which I try to be obviously now when I'm performing, you know, now that I know how important it is to actually be mindful of what you're saying and doing and being in the moment rather than waiting it for it to be over or waiting to go get shitfaced after with your friends, like it's important to be in the moment when you are on stage. And, you know, I took that for granted for a long time.
So that's helped me really not try to control it, but to know it. You know what? I need to know the material without controlling the material.
OK, and again, that's like a performative aspect of it. And I get that. But ultimately, you are at the steering wheel. It's your standup special.
The people sitting there are spectators.
And then ultimately, if you hated it, you'd fucking kill it and record another one. There's all these back steps where you are in control of how you perform it. You are in control with. You release it, but then it gets released and then you might see a headline that all it says is Chelsea Handler breaks down in her stand up for me, that would trigger me. I'd be like, that's incomplete.
Yeah, but I mean, I'm used to that. I can't hang my hat on what somebody says about me. Of course, they're going to be bad things written about me always. I mean, whatever. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't like that, but it wouldn't do that much to my sense of security or sense of confidence about putting it out there.
Yeah, I have that. But for me, I don't have as thick skin as you. I will do that. I haven't been on Twitter in a week because we released an episode where I walked through the whole relapse and I was again, I had control of talking about it and what day we release it and what's it's called. But then everything posts that I had to ignore because it does affect me. I hate if I take the time to be real, that someone would cannibalize that in a way that I hate.
But then for me, it's just it's control. I can't stand if someone else is in charge of how I'm being represented or painted or.
Yeah, like with my standup special, obviously I'm in control of that. I'm going to edit it. I'm going to give notes on it. I'm the one who's putting it together and writing the material. So yes, from that aspect. But once it's out of my hands and once it's out into the world, there's nothing I can do to control the response. And I've learned that lesson. And yeah, it's not that I'm don't I'm not sensitive like you, but I would say, yes, I have thicker skin than you, from what it sounds like.
I mean, I expect that to a degree that's part of the equation for me.
Yeah, well, you have been much more controversial your whole career than I think I have is just part of your comedic persona. It's like baked in to that.
Yeah, but you can't please everybody. I mean, people are going to say things about whatever you do because they're coming from a completely different place or they're in a bad mood or they don't like you and they want people to know about it. Like that is part of being in this business is like knowing that your people are going to write mean and nasty things about you and you're not supposed to take that seriously or let it affect you in any real way.
I agree with you.
But in the past, though, there's one joke in your standup that let's say you say I want to give a PSA to white guys who are fearful of women who have dated black men. And I just want you to know that the beaver retracts, right? So let's say that caused a shit storm. And people are like, you're perpetuating a stereotype that black men have big dicks and the ones that don't feel insecure about you'd easily be able to go as a fucking joke.
So I could get over that. It was a fucking joke. You're getting too serious.
But if they start critiquing you, your vulnerability and your real experience and how you process the loss of your brother, you can't just go like as a fucking joke.
You know, like he's been her whole career is her. You're used to being an actor where you have like a veil.
And so she's had so much experience of being critiqued as her because it's always been her.
I totally agree. I guess what I'm pointing out is, as your show has gotten more meaningful to you and more honest and more vulnerable, I guess I just wonder if it opens up the door to some fear that you had gotten over previously because you could always just go as a fucking joke.
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I do really believe, like, you know, it's, again, about being real. You know, I want to be real and really transparent. I don't want to pretend to be something that I'm not. And I don't want to ever give airs to that like and I'm always trying to keep my feet very firmly planted. And I feel like sharing this kind of stuff is a great way to do that, you know, because it is humbling.
You're putting yourself out there in a very vulnerable way. But that's a great challenge. And why not? Yeah, OK.
This is a really fucking gross question, but I'm going to own it personally. And just I wonder if being honest and vulnerable and there's a release that comes with it and then maybe you tell it once and then maybe you tell it twice and then around the third or fourth time I start feeling pretty grody about it. Does that make any sense? Like, yeah, I don't want this to be shtick. I don't want this to be one of my funny stories that I shit my pants.
It's up to me to police that.
Yeah, I agree with that because then you're banging on about, you know, whatever you're going through at the moment, if you're going through therapy, you're telling everybody about therapy and like, shut up. If you're into meditation, everyone's like, oh God, she's going to tell me to meditate. You know, you kind of bang on about what you're going through. But the good thing about all of it, like putting it out there, is like you move on from it and you move on to the next phase.
OK, last thing, this just occurred to me while I was watching it, and I well, first of all, I just love that you basically get to a point where vulnerability's bravery, it's a burning brown thing. It's a you know, I was going to say glutting Doyle. Yeah. Glenanne, Doyle, Berney, Brown. There's a lot of people, thankfully, that are pointing that out. And that's always what I think is most brave about people.
But you get to this airplane ride where you now have this new set of tools. Practice being empathetic and a gentleman comes to sit next to you on the airplane and and what happens?
Well, I don't want to give that away because it's the ending of the special. But I'll just tell you, I could tell that he was a Republican. He sat down next to me and I was thought I was cured at this point. And I was like, this is my opportunity to have a nice, compassionate, empathetic conversation with a Republican. Yeah. Who's wearing denim looking pants. But they weren't denim. They were cloth. So it was an affront on multiple.
All right. OK, so let's leave it let's leave it at that. Let's leave it at that. But I'll tell you, this is the thing that I weirdly thought of while watching it that I don't think I had ever thought of. I personally think I've made great effort to be empathetic to people on the right. I understand that the real issues that people care about and I make a real effort to understand why they care about them.
I think and the thing that occurred to me is the thing that binds us together is the reason we're on either side is that we fear something. I fear that a woman's rights over her body are going to get taken away. I fear that our environment is going to collapse and we're all going to die. I fear that we're going to let people die and suffer on the street without helping them. Right. I'm not attracted to the Democratic Party or the left because of things I necessarily love about them.
I'm actually attracted because of the things I'm afraid of and they represent the things I'm afraid of. And then I can extend that to the right, which is there on the right, because they're afraid that they're going to get attacked by militant fundamentalists, that they're going to lose the right to go hunting, that babies are going to be killed. What's weirdly uniting about us is that we're all just driven by fear.
Yeah, fear and insecurity for sure. I think every problem everyone has is rooted out of fear and being insecure, which is the same thing as fear, right?
Yeah, it's easy for me to think that what our difference is that we have the ideological like kind of north stars we're chasing. But I think it's it's even more just things that we're very afraid of. And we're trying to get someone in there that will make sure those fears don't come true. And again, I'm sympathetic to both of us.
Right. Right. Well, I think Republicans fear people of color and black people being elected to office. I mean, this is a reaction from having Barack Obama as our president. So let's not make any mistake about that. And, you know, Republicans are fearful of losing the power of white supremacy. That's what the Republican Party is right now.
Well, I know that's a very, I think, judgmental take on it as opposed to they're very afraid that the world they grew up in and that they liked is going to disappear. Now, if you started pointing out that a lot of that is built on this, I think it becomes a different conversation. But I can empathize with having grown up in a way that you loved and recognizing that's all about to change dramatically and being very afraid of that because you loved your childhood in your life.
Yeah, but you don't have to be afraid. You could also be open to it. You could say, oh, this might change, might be good. Instead of being fearful about losing what you've had your whole life, which is white supremacy, that's what it is. It's white people being in charge and then all of a sudden knowing that they're losing their grip and ruling by minority, you know, they're ruling the majority of people by a minority.
That is what it is today, unfortunately. You know, we used to be the Democrats that were the white supremacist party and now it's the Republicans. But that's what you're talking about.
You know, what you're saying is if they're losing something that they've grown up with their whole lives, it's the power of being a dominant white male over women and over everybody else. You are the top dog. And that's what people in the Republican Party are scared of.
Yeah, and I'm not condoning perpetuating that, but what I am just trying to look at as a bridge is they're terrified of change. And I think that's a human fear. I'm terrified of the change of the environment. I'm terrified of the change of my daughters having to carry a baby to term that a rapist put in them. So I'm afraid of change, too.
I think that's something we can ride on. No, that's a good point.
I mean, we are afraid of what could happen with the Supreme Court and if the Republicans win were to win this election. You're right. There are real reasons to be fearful on both sides. I find some you know, the world is changing.
We're opening opening up to more people. That seems to be a hopeful message, you know, and that's my opinion. But there is a way to look at changes being open minded to it instead of being so fearful about it. But when you bring up, you know, your daughter's rights, of course, that's going to implant fear in you. So I get it. I mean, yeah, you made a good point.
I make my worst decisions when I'm scared. I'll just say that I know. Tell me about it. Do their worst thinking when they're scared.
OK, well, evolution is on HBO, Max. When does it come out? October. Twenty second. OK, so nine days before Halloween. That's relevant. Oh. Good map. Where are you today?
Boy, I tried a lot of tactics. Who knew that would be the one? Well, I adore you. I love how outspoken you are. I love that you you know, whether I always agree or don't agree that you're fighting for the things you're passionate about. And I think it takes an extra level of bravery to be a female. We have male opinionated guests and they don't say shit on the comments. And when you're here or Amys here or Leena's here, it's undeniable.
I know I heard about it afterwards. It's undeniable.
Like we have male actors that are as progressive or whatever Sean Penn was, people didn't blow that fucking comment section up. It's pretty shocking.
It's been illuminating. Again, one more little layer I've been forced to recognize, like, oh, people don't like women having opinions.
A man can have an opinion they disagree with, but it doesn't threaten something in them. But it's helpful.
It's helpful to have you guys on and and see that for other women, like, it's not stopping you. Those mean comments or whatever they are, it's not stopping you. It's not stopping Amy. It's not stopping Lena and all these awesome people that any woman would want to be in your club. So I think it's just hopeful and helpful. Yeah.
And I mean, that's another thing to go back to what you were saying dacs about like putting yourself out there and having people not respond in the way that in which you would like. You know, it is a good example to set to continue to hold your head up high, you know, to continue to put out projects that you feel that have integrity, that you're saying something, that you have a message that you're not just abusing a system that was handed to you and not abusing your platform, you know, really being conscious about it.
And, you know, I wish I had gotten here twenty years ago, but I did it. I'm here now and so I can make it count now.
Yeah. I love you. Grateful. I love you. I'm glad you came back on. Please come back. Thanks, guys. All right.
Nice to talk to you. Have a great day.
Bye. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. We are supported by Felix Gray.
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And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soul mate Monica Padman. Boy, we just had a what would you call that, a snafu systems normal, all fucked up, but I don't know if snafu applies because systems norm that wasn't systems normal.
We lost power and we had recorded a good deal, the fact check, and we lost it.
But you know what was really good?
It was really good. But who cares, right? We can be really good again. I don't know. This is how it started. I'm just going to say there was there's a mix of technologies happening for this fact check, which is you came over with a stack of yellow pieces of paper and your phone, which also has some facts.
Right, makes media mixed messages, mixed mediums and messages.
And I guess I was curious, what's with the new plan?
So on the fact check, the lost back check, that was a different cheeses, you know, OK, on the fact check that we did for Bob Woodward that we decided not to air because we thought I thought it was a little too politically contentious, correct?
Yeah. So within that, I declared to our armed Cherrie's something that was happening and I feel a little guilty about it, so I have to air it out. Yeah.
Our friend Laura Moses has come on armchair expert as an additional editor, and we are very grateful.
Yes, she's saving the day and she earmarks facts as she listens. That's right.
And so the facts on my I found, I guess, which again, I mispronounced it last time I found.
So we just stuck with it. So we're going to stick with it now, too. So on your iPhone, those are from Laura, right.
And I edited Chelsea additionally. So I do an additional edit, but it's just much faster now because Lara has done the majority for me. But while I was listening, I wrote some additional fact shots, some sticky notes.
So we have of medium. Yes. And you basically have a big stack of paper and a digital thing. That's right. So it's really fun.
But then in that conversation, I brought up that people are pissed. Some people I don't know what the percentages, probably. Ninety nine percent of people are excited about that.
I found twelve.
Yeah, but a lot of people are pissed about the iPhone twelve because they're comparing it to either the five or the seven, whatever the last one was when Steve Jobs was at the helm, came out. And apparently this thing has some innovations that already existed from his last iteration.
And they're also pissed, understandably so. Again, I have no position on that. I found. Yeah, because you have a Samsung. I use a Samsung Samsung 10 that I think is technologically advanced enough for me. But at any rate, apparently they don't come now with a charger at all and they don't come with a charger.
I mean, they're going to get to the point where there's just no ports and you can't hold anything up to it. There is a port. You just have to buy the are you going to buy the charger? But I'm saying next stop is probably just no port. So you can't plug anything into I don't know. I'm guessing now I don't want to get sued by Apple and I'm a fan. Look, I use a Mac computer.
Oh, look at my beautiful Mac computer. Just gorgeous. In fact, we had to go to that to understand if we had lost the fact check, which we did. And I also have an iPad, my son. I love you.
Can't speak ill of your son. And I love cousins. I love Apple TV. Any who all that to say.
We were talking about high tech stuff.
And then I wanted to say that Delta, who's given us a ton of stuff, I would have assumed prior to getting this new fosset. Yeah. That foster technology was over. Exactly.
Because why why wouldn't it be over? What do you do? You pull a handle and you get either cold or warm or hot water, not Delta. They're like, fuck that, no. We're going to give you something called touch two point.
Oh, which are Fosset now has. And let me just air out a grievance. My number one complaint about cooking steaks, which you do a lot. I do quite often, and I've kind of perfected it.
Would you agree? I would add they're really good.
Thank you so much. I'd like to put the dry rub directly on the meat and I massage it. It's part of your technique. It is. It's proprietary.
And I get presumably e coli and God knows what other bacteria on my fingers have bacteria. And I don't want to then touch the faucet and get it all over.
I have this issue with chicken as well.
I think a lot of people do. So guess what? The Delta Force at two point.
Oh, technology allows you. I just hit it with my elbow. Any touch will set this thing off and I can have a preset temperature so I can have my grimy, gross fingers and hands.
I bump it with my my elbow.
It turns on now we can just wash without touching it so that that is they've thought about what the consumer really does need. Yes. Because I hate that too. Because then we have to do is touch it, wash your hands very thoroughly, then you wash, find and wash the handle with soap. Then I always get nervous. A sponge has equal. I mean it's a whole thing, it's a shit show.
And I have resigned to the fact that that. Just how it goes when you make me, but now I'm realizing, no, that doesn't have to be my lot in life. I'm going to blow your mind now. No. Yes.
And also this fosset also has voice IQ technology. So it talks to your other home devices that are controlled by voice. What?
Let me tell you what you can do. I swear to God this is true. You can fill up like your dog's water bowl, right. And it'll fill it the exact amount.
Or you can even say, like, pour one cup of water, my God. And it so you don't have to measure any more because the device has meter dispensing that. So you understand what I'm saying.
Meter dispensing it can it can dispense an exact amount of liquid. That's all believable.
And you can just say, Delta, pour me a cup of water, make me some pasta.
Well that's what I'm saying. I bet it's one or two updates away from going don't make me macaroni and cheese.
Oh, my God, this is amazing. I can't wait to put this in my house. Yeah. Your new house. Yes. You're going to be able to just tell it to do whatever you want. Oh, my. I love telling people and things to do what I want.
Listen, I would be talking about this thing had I not been gifted it by Delta. I really would. I mean, they are response. Ah, we should say. But but who cares.
I know I got now a faucet in my bathroom that I can pull out and spray all the beard hair down.
And now I'm going to say does that make me macaroni and cheese. That's a miss that you can't really say, but I do foresee that. But you can tell to pour you a cup of water. It's incredible.
It's amazing to touch it with your grimy bacteria. Deqi covid hands. I'm just impressed that their engineers didn't settle.
They're not done. I know. I love that. Need to give me faith about where we're going to. Yeah. So we speaking about where we're going.
We've now finished Rabbit Hole, both of us. Oh the New York Times podcast. We talked about it a couple of weeks ago. We had only at that point heard about the young man who was led to a very militant extreme corner of the Internet.
And all of a sudden he's like, wait, I don't even have these beliefs. Yeah.
And then came cutie pie people, Purepecha and I didn't know anything about Pudi Pie made me feel so old.
And I was telling you this, I knew, but I didn't know why I knew it like I knew and I knew then I knew.
I just knew that word. Yeah. But I didn't know anything about what it represented, which is also may I talk about something that's hit the zeitgeist where, you know, in your brain, but you have no idea why.
And, you know, I think at this point he has one hundred million followers. So clearly we're in the minority to not be up to date on Puti Pi.
So that was its own fascinating thing.
And then the last two episodes hit us right were right in the sweet spot for us.
Q And Iron Man, the New York Times podcast are fucking unbelievable.
They really are. There's so good, they are so good at the way they drop information and the way I, I think they show, they show both sides and they really do get into the humanity of what is going on. Yes.
That and look, they're very open about the fact that it's on the left to like the left leading people into insane places on the right. So I preach like definitely I think when I when I posted that people should check out Rabbit Hole, I got not not a lot. Just one or two is like New York Times pass.
And I'm like, that's like saying Encyclopædia pass this bullshit that that is a rigorously fact checked institution of journalism.
And when they get it wrong, they have to correct it, which they do. Yeah.
So I don't know. And and podcasts, you know, there's more leeway obviously like ours to tell a human story and they really do here. And I got so scared.
So they're not a sponsor. I just want to say no, they're not a sponsor.
I got nervous because they'll yeah. The last two episodes were about Kuhnen and one lady who got kind of sucked in.
And by the way, it all starts with like really good frustration, which is the banking system. Yep. And the banking bailout. I didn't realize that a lot of this stuff was driven by the 2008 bailout of the financial system.
Yeah, I do. I want to point out that I don't like a people should be pissed about that because those banks were fucking absolutely reckless and they caused the subprime mortgage crisis. That's true.
But when the government bailed them out, they're not bailing them out. They're bailing us out. Right.
Anyone who might have a 401k, anyone who has money in Bank of America or any of these banks, and they don't want to run on the banks so that your all your savings are gone like it's not really us and them as much as people feel like it is.
I could not agree more like if you have money in a bank, you hope that bank is getting bailed out. Yes.
That the government shores it up before it collapses, like Bear Stearns are the ones that were allowed to collapse.
Those people just lost everything. Yeah. And I understand the frustration with the system that it could even happen that they did that.
Yeah, the thing to be pissed about is that the banks were super fucking irresponsible and then they. Delayed, and that is that's worth getting pissed off about. And that's why we need regulation. Exactly, yes. But I do understand, like someone else makes a financial error in their real life, an individual. Yeah. And they don't get helped.
Like they got swindled by the bank and talked into remortgaging or buying some house they couldn't afford and then they don't get helped. So, yeah, I'd be pissed about that.
Yeah, me too. And that's how a lot of people first started getting just disgruntled in general when government it led them to believe, like, yeah, there's just this big conspiracy happening to save the elite. And that's sort of what led to this. But the woman who they focus on, you know, she's like older and her kids were like grown or something. And she was just kind of like started to spend time on YouTube.
And that's my mom. Oh, really? Now she's on YouTube. She's on YouTube all the time watching make up videos. And he has no interest. She really likes watching make a video.
Oh, wow. And I started to think like, oh, my God, what if there's just like a kuhnen thing on the side recommended video.
Exactly. I mean, that could happen. Sure. Yeah. I really hope it doesn't. I thought I need to call her and just say, like, hey, beware when you're looking at these make of videos, like they could come in or just beware when you're watching YouTube, period.
Exactly. Also make videos because they could tell you to do some bad makeup. Yeah, they could. They can get it straight like a fucking mandrill. It's a primate with a big colorful face. Oh, huge.
Drells they're awesome. Oh, yeah. I like that you've seen them.
They got the long snout and it's really colorful. Blue and red I am now.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. They're beautiful. How do they become that.
That's amazing. Well that's the boys look like that to demonstrate that they're physically fit enough to attract predators and still survive.
This is a it's kind of like the peacock. Yeah. Same shirt, same situation. Different any other animal trying to get some ass.
God, I just think when I was listening to it, I felt this is ISIS. This is what they do.
They roll through. Yeah, yeah.
People who want community who feel disenfranchised, let's even say are disenfranchised.
Yes. And they place an umbrella of greater good above it. Like they say, you're doing this because the institution needs to come down.
The truth come out. Everyone believes the tree should be out.
There's so yeah, there's this grand sort of moral high ground they're placing on it, which is exactly what they do in ISIS with religion. It's the same thing. Yeah.
That the the once pure religion has been watered down and bastardized and infected with all these different and the West is the cause.
Yeah. So it's you know, I don't see a difference there. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We're so quick to be like those guys and terrorism and it's like it's happening here.
Yeah. Well I mean the outcome of ISIS has been much worse of the outcome of coming on so far. Yeah. Yeah. So good. It's really good.
I recommend me to strong recommendation. Where can I go. I got to grab like a cracker or something. I'm feeling a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
So to update everyone we took another little break because that's got hungry. He needed a little snack and my house doesn't have a lot of good food. So there was a box of cereal but no milk. So he's added water to the cereal and that's where we're at.
You know, you make a good cereal when you can have it with water. That's true. This is life cereal. Yeah, but I got to say not to bring it back to our sponsors, but this is a result of me running out of the Bob's Red Mill bars.
Normally, I grab a couple when I come over here and I was out.
Well, I need to have some here. That'll be great. OK, OK, lackies. So factis Chelse.
We love her. We love her. She's and when I was listening back I was just like, God, do I respect this person? I really, really do.
She just knows there's going to be some backlash to things she says and it's not going to get in the way of her saying what she believes. That's right.
And she also she's the one who recommended Isabel. We interview her like four days before Isabel.
But also, I mean, just just because I want to be like her. I had already reached out to Isabel. Oh. Before she said it.
OK, OK. I think I say in the interview, I say we're trying to get her all right.
But in fact, obviously, Isabel has already come out before this and she was unbelievable. If you haven't listened to that one, please do.
Yeah. Really good. Really good. I love her and I then I since I've started reading her book and it's incredible. OK, so you were on. Chelsea show to promote a movie, and you said I was in it with my girlfriend, I assume you're talking about Kristen and Kristen, right? Yeah, yeah. OK, OK.
So you talked about how Aaron used to jerk off in a restaurant called Boodles.
You weren't sure if it still existed? Oh, there is a kibbutzes cafe, but that's in Akron, New York.
Oh, no, this was Troy, Michigan. Is it capitals with a, K or C? That's a great question.
I'll ask around while we go through. Maybe he can give us I put Kibbutzes Restaurant, Michigan. Nothing came up, but I spelled it with a K.
That's so Georgia of you. You're right.
So TBD on whether Boodles is. Yeah. I bet Aaron will respond. I'm sure.
I hope it's not because we spoke very ill about it in my area. We could probably get I don't know. Could you get sued. No, it's a fact. He's a jerk off Boodles. I don't know. I don't think. I don't.
Do you think they would suit? They come after him personally.
Well, we said it was disgusting in there. Oh, that. In that. Well, then let me clear that up, because I don't know what it's like in there.
I've never been inside a cabooses. I just just driving by looking at it. It's not a place I'd want to jerk off.
Or any public bathroom, really, for that matter. Right now it's not true. Like certain hotels have really nice bathrooms in the lobby with like big full suite.
Those were the lobby where they have the full door. Not like you. Sure. It closes all the way. Law. Yeah. You feel like you're in a bedroom with a toilet in it, but there are people right next to you.
As long as that's locked in, they can't peek through any of the cracks.
So I have a question about obscure public upscale bathrooms.
Yeah, you have to be quiet. Yes, of course. So does that get in the way? Does that hinder the pleasure level?
No, I don't believe I'm making all that much noise when I'm doing it. Now, I could be wrong because I am in a in the heat of it. Right. I'm in the fog of war. So maybe I'm not aware of how much noise I'm making. But in general, I don't think I'm making you know, it's not like I'm using, like, Vaseline, intensive care, like a lotion.
I'm saying you're having to suppress a little bit when you're in a public space. So does that get in the way of the pleasure level?
Oh, no, no, no. Oh, yeah. You're whoa. For me, I can't speak for everyone. For me. You know, you're very much in your mind at that moment.
Yeah. I'm not like taking in my surroundings at all. I'm like having whatever fantasy I'm having.
But you also have to monitor the fact that you're not alone, I guess is what I'm saying.
Well, but you don't you just close your door, the door to that in your mind, which is like it's locked. That's that. And there's no reason to think about anything around you. Even if you heard a fight break out, you could still just continue on. I think this this is also fundamentally a difference with men and women. Like I don't think women can do that. I don't. Well, look, again, these are all generalizations.
It's best just to say, like, I OK, I don't think I could do it in a way where, like, I'm completely shut off from the rest of the world. And if I'm in a public bathroom and someone next to me, like, makes a poop sound, yeah. I'm going to come out of my fantasy. OK, well, now that's a that's a different question.
Like, what if I heard a big explosion while I was in my fantasy, I would probably be like, well, when you would have drilling it would be a couple of steps backwards.
I would have to like regain momentum. OK, but I will just say this as a counterpoint.
I feel more vulnerable defecating than I do masturbating. Like, let's put it this way. Let's say a modification in a male with a knife runs into the stall versus I'm jerking off. I like my odds a lot more when I'm jerking off. I can stand up mid air evacuation. I'm so vulnerable at that point.
I wouldn't want to be in a fight with about cleaning up first. But if I just have a boner and I'm fighting a guy that's preferred to.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
OK, does that make sense? I'm just worried. Are you cleaning up? Well, of course that's the part that, you know, so irresponsible for people. But you know me, I clean up other people's pubic hair, toilet paper.
I do recall our fact check that one time.
I'm actually, I think, pretty ethical when I go into a public bathroom, OK?
It's just it just makes people scared like me when I hear the story like, oh, my God, there's semen places, right?
Yeah. You know, maybe maybe there is. Oh, well, I'm just saying I can't speak for how other people handle their business, but I'm very respectful, I think of the shared space.
I am also this is I don't know how many times this has happened in my life.
I'm forty five, but I've only cranked it in a public bathroom maybe twenty times.
Whoa. OK, that's not a ton. It's not like I do it even once I thought you're going to say five. Oh no.
Well no, I'm not going to say five. I've been actively masturbating for thirty.
Let's see, I'm forty five so. Thirty three years.
Yeah. The small percentage, we're different also I do think in general I'll stand by this stereotype. You know, it's easier for men to reach achieve orgasm than women. Yeah. Yeah. So that also I think explains how guys can do it in the toilet.
Right. But it's, it's just like for me.
There's just never been a moment where it's like I'm bored so and I met kaboodle and I'm just going to go into the bathroom now like well let's just be clear.
He wasn't at kaboodle board. That's right.
Let's call him really quick. I wonder, do I have the name of the restaurant wrong, the one right by shows and shoots an industrial court in John R.. What was that restaurant reference?
Yeah. OK, well, first of all, you did use a jerk off in there a bit, right, sir? Yeah, sure. All right.
Sure I will. You don't happen to remember how it was spelled, do you?
Because we can't seem to find it on the Internet.
Was it with a zero k? I don't even know why. No, it's called Boodles.
Also real familiar. I mean, I want to pick the I pick I go. Thank you.
That's what Monica did. Yeah. But maybe that's probably not there anymore.
No, I hope not because we talked about that it was filthy in there and that I was impressed that you could reach climax in front of you take me there because I was I Home Depot and I'm like and then I sort of think of all the places I jerk off, I go Home Depot's.
There's so many fucking men in there.
Oh, absolutely. While we have you, there's no way you would remember, but can you think of one, like, the worst place you've jerked off?
Well, what happened was I was a regular thing. Port a potty for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, they have lost and part of that is like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. All right, well, we love you. I just wanted to hear that update.
All right. I'll talk to you guys.
OK, so I don't know that that got us any closer to the truth, but it is reassuring that he thinks it was Boodles as well. We're going to hope it's close.
We really we're going to hope and pray, although the food's outstanding. If it's still open. Yeah, it's a clean, tasty establish. I think it's a it's a Michelin star restaurant. OK.
Oh, wow. Set off on their Harley. Well, there's many. Well, you know what that is. I can tell you what that is. That's like a motor scooter club. Really.
Yeah. Those were all like Vesper.
Do you ever think of your motorcycle as a horse, a motor horse. Um, thoi I think that's what it is a little bit.
There are moments when I'm coming out of a turn and I'm getting back in the saddle because you call it a saddle. Right. And yeah I feel like I'm like the one I've seen in Westerns when they're riding the hell out of that horse in there all over the place. Yeah, I've I've had that feeling.
We have a friend who's on a horse trip right now, and she said that there was a scare and a woman got thrown.
And I immediately thought of you because I know you don't like horses.
Well, I just think it's very funny that people who are so anti motorcycles might ride horses. The horses are just so much more unpredictable and dangerous. I know way more people that have got paralyzed from horse accidents, the motorcycle.
But in general, you you are not a fan of horses like. No, I used to like them, but yeah, I had two bad experiences.
Yeah. In a row and yeah. I'm like, OK, there's no brake pedal on the horse.
Well right. So I just think it's funny that you're like no horses are dangerous but that you ride a motor horse. That's right. Racehorse. Yeah you do. Yeah. I actually ride two hundred motorized horses.
Yeah. Exactly. Two hundred horsepower in the motorized horse. Mm hmm.
OK, so you said you could handle yourself on drugs. Yeah. And what you're saying is you just didn't get out of control. Yeah.
I'll tell you what I mean. Like my friend Leslie and I were at Arclight one time.
We came out and there was this guy who he clearly was out of control, like he he didn't know where he was at.
He was very confused. So we started talking to him. And we're both ex drug addicts, so we know what to do. And it was quickly figured out that he was on a lot of mushrooms and he didn't know where his friends were or whatever.
And we said, can you call your friends? And he kept pulling his wallet out of his back pocket and opening it like a phone and holding it to his ear. And he thought he literally thought he was calling somebody. And I mean, this guy was a mess. I think people are kind. And I like what a sitting duck he was. Yeah. Anyone could have done anything they wanted to this guy.
I've never been in that state, you know. That's what I'm saying. I can always get to where I'm going. I don't lose my friends. I don't lose my phone. I don't wake up somewhere. I don't know where I'm at. Right in that way. I handled my shit. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's true to a degree. But you also can't handle yourself.
But some people take drugs and they start crying. They start like panicking. They start. That's what we're talking about. It's just like we don't lose our composure. Why drugs?
OK, and she said I could handle opioids just fine. Oh yeah. Yeah.
I didn't fact check it. I didn't try any, but I, I never had them. You never have Vicodin or something.
I have ones for oral surgery. Yes. And I hated it.
OK, so I'm going to have to fact check her on that. I don't think I'm, I would be able to handle them just fine. OK, we talk a little bit about balding and testosterone.
That was interesting that actually the testosterone makes you bawl.
Yes. But specifically that's counterintuitive.
Mm. I would think you'd have more hair growth with more testosterone.
Well ironically you do you have more body hair growth. So guys with really high testosterone levels have more body hair.
But but there's different bits of testosterone in the I believe it's pronounced Dutrow hydroxy testosterone. DHT is the actual chemical that attacks the root of your head in male pattern baldness.
Specifically, it doesn't attack your follicles in your body hair or your beard, you know, and that's just a very evolutionary thing so that we can get more vitamin D on the top of your head.
But you could have low testosterone levels, still have male pattern baldness because everyone has a right. And so if you have the gene for male pattern baldness, you're going.
Send DHT to those follicles in front. Yeah, and I'm out on a limb a little bit, but pretty much this is roughly what goes on.
There's probably some geneticist going now. The hair follicle itself is what's carrying the gene and it's more susceptible to DHEA and are about. Yeah.
So it's either that those follicles are designed to be susceptible to DHT and that's why they fall out. Or the DHT specifically targets those and they fall out either or when you're taking like Propecia or finasteride, what it's doing is blocking DHT from going to your scalp.
And there's topical versions of that, too.
Again, all of them are available for him, for him, for him. And your eye for an eye.
Fange. That's all right.
I love you. Love you.