I'm David Faria, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, when I took my trip back to New Zealand in December last year, I looked around the plane like I usually do, just to see what people were watching on their inflight entertainment. Usually, it's a variety of things. We've all done this. Some people are watching rom-coms, others are deep in a thriller, the occasional awkward man watching a sex scene, or plenty of people are just watching Big Bang Theory. But I noticed something truly remarkable on this flight to my homeland. Nearly everyone seemed to be watching the same thing.

Legend tells of a ring created by an ancient evil that gave its Where are the power to enslave the world.

That thing was Lord of the Rings. So many people on this flight to New Zealand were watching Lord of the Rings. And it reminded me that a lot of people, a lot of Americans, from what I could tell, still They come to New Zealand in part because they're fueled by Peter Jackson's famous trilogy released in the early 2000s. Here we were, I thought to myself. Over two decades later, still thinking about Hobbits and Orcs, Frodo and Gandalf. You shall not pass. I guess it's not surprising. Those three films got 30 Oscar nominations between them in 117. It's fair to say they left a pretty big cultural footprint.

My precious.

And as I watched all those people watching Golem on their tiny airplane screens, I realized that when I landed, I'd have to do something very important for Flightless Bird. I'd need to do an episode on Lord of the Rings. I would go to Hobbiton, the set left over from the movies that's still going strong today. The Shire is one of New Zealand's biggest tourist attractions, visited by hundreds of thousands of fans every year. So get those hairy feet, precious rings, and alfiers ready, because this is the Lord of the Rings episode.

Okay, Where do we all stand on Peter Jackson's trilogy of Lord of the Rings films?

I've never seen them.

This is great. Never seen them? Never seen them? Where were you in life when those movies were coming out? And did you feel they were big at the time?

They were big. They were huge. I must have been in high school, maybe end of middle school, high school. I mean, most people I know have seen them. I was never drawn to that genre.

Are you not a fantasy girl?

You don't do fantasy. But I love Harry.

You did Game of Thrones.

And I like Game of Thrones.

It feels like racism. See, really, these New Zealanders making this giant film. You've never seen any of them. What about late night scrolling through things? It popped on a bit of Lord of the Rings or accidentally watched some at a friend's house? Never. Never. Okay, Rob, I should note that you are dressed currently. Explain yourself.

I love Lord of the Rings. But tell people what...

It's an audio show, so tell people what's happening.

I'm dressed like I normally do.

Rob came in in clothing and then slowly stripped off the external layer of jeans and a top to reveal that he's dressed as a little tiny hobbit. For a while, I didn't really notice that you were. You just looked, you suited. It was just like, here's an outfit, your little cape on. Do you want to tell me about the ring you're wearing around your neck?

Yeah, I've got an actual ring that's inscribed like the movie on a necklace around my neck.

Does that happen in the movie?

The Ring's a big deal in the movie. Can you give me a Just base. Okay, so I've got to say something as well. I haven't really watched them either.

Can we do what you both know about it then?

Yeah, that's actually quite a good idea. Lord of the Rings is about a band of hobbits led by Frodo.

Okay.

Elijah Wood. You met him on your show. And they have to find a ring to save the world. There's a little creature called- Golem. Golem. He has the ring at some point and it makes him go crazy. So Elijah Wood has to find Golem, get the ring off the little guy. Sauron is the big bad guy, and he has just a big eye in the sky, a big evil-looking eye. Okay. And I think it's about Little Hobbit's defeating big evil. And Gandalf is a wizard.

Yes, I've heard about him.

Who helps Little Hobbit. I don't know why there are three of them. They're each three hours. Right. They're famous for having the extended So the extending cuts are more like four hours each. And so you'll get people who will marathon these from time to time.

It's a full journey for them to get the ring.

How hard can it be to get the ring off Golem and then throw it in the fire?

They have guys coming after them, too. Every time he puts it on, it calls to the bad guy. But he has to throw the ring in this volcano.

Monica, I'm the same as you. For whatever reason, I don't gravitate towards fantasy. I'm not knocking Lord of the Rings, good on it, didn't watch it. There's the other thing, Amazon tried to bring it back. It's the most expensive thing they've ever made. I think the really interesting thing about that, and I have to be careful because it's in New Zealand, I have a lot of friends that worked on it and they're in it. It didn't take off in nearly the same way. The show? Yeah, the show. I mean, who's saying, did you watch that Lord of the Rings show? No one's really talking about it despite it being the most expensive show ever made. And yet these films that Peter Jackson made two decades ago are still being talked I was looking on the Alamo's website the other day, and they were doing, Here's an anniversary screening of the Two Towers. So they're still around.

Is it called the Two Towers?

There's three of them. Okay. One of them. Maybe I do know more about it than I thought. The Two Towers is one of them.

Second one, yeah. The second one.

Was it before or after?

9/11. It was 2000. Well, it's a book. It's J. R. R. Tolkien. But the movie, the movie. Yeah, the movie came out in 2002.

2002, okay. So right after. So it was the Two Towers. I actually never made association in the culture. But okay, so Rob, just really quickly, how did you become obsessed? You just went to the movies, you loved the films. What's your relationship?

In seventh grade, I read The Hobbit, and that was one of the first books that I really loved. The Hobbit is the prequel to all of this. It's Frodo's uncle, Bilbo Baggins.

Right. We should mention that The Hobbit. Peter Jackson, who's obviously an incredibly talented man, he loved that universe so much. He went made another trilogy called The Hobbit. Right. Have you seen The Hobbit, Monica? No. It's not up your alley?

I just haven't ventured into this world at all.

Okay. Well, this is exciting then.

My hope is that at the end of this episode, we're both going to be so interested that we'll watch it.

I like to think that anyone listening is going to feel the same way, and they'll be like, holy shit, I want to be in this world. Or rewatch it. I want to read them. I want to rewatch.

I mean, most people have seen. It's bizarre that two out of three of us in here have not seen them. Most people have seen them.

It's sacrilege that I haven't seen.

I know. I feel like are you doing it on purpose? Are you like, is it bucking the system?

No, I just I've watched the first one at some point on TV with ads. So it was about six hours. Nightmare. But I just I've watched bits of the others, but never sat down and really given them a go. Okay. Well, look, when I was in New Zealand, I thought I needed a Lord of the Rings because it was comical how many people on the plane were watching Lord of the Rings. And I realized that Americans are still coming to New Zealand because of that movie. And they're getting hyped by watching... It's also a great thing to watch for a 12-hour flight because it pretty much takes up the whole 12 hours if you do the extended cuts of all three films. And I just realized New Zealand is on the map for these movies. And so I was like, I've got to go to the set where this thing was made and just see what happened.

It's 6:30 in the morning in Auckland, New Zealand, and I've just been picked up by an American called Matt. He's taller than me, and he's one of those Americans who's just very enthusiastic about life. Matt moved to New Zealand recently, but he has never come to Hobbiton. He's agreed to let me tag along as he experiences it for the very first time.

What are you expecting? What are you thinking?

I'm expecting small holes in hills and tight spaces.

It's a two-hour drive to Matamata, a small town nestled in the center of the North Island, with a population of just over 9,000 people. It used to be mostly well known for farming and breeding fancy racehorses. Then Hobbiton came along, a film set brought to life so Lord of the Rings fans can feel like they're actually in the Shire.

As an American in New Zealand, you're doing the reverse of what I do in Flight of the Bird. You're an American who's come to New Zealand. Has any thing stood out to you that you found unusual about the way New Zealand does things in either a good or a bad way? What jumps to mind?

I mean, always my to that. I start with the demeanor of people, the lack of abrasiveness from people. I find people to be a bit more personable and less, I don't know, I think that has to do with less individualistic. There's more of a camaraderie here amongst people.

Matt and I spent the drive talking about what it's like being an American in New Zealand. Like me in America, he finds lots of things different and strange and is slowly adjusting. He spent time working in hospitality. So had to adjust pretty quickly.

Do you miss things like tipping?

Tipping? Oh, tipping. Like, oh, tipping. Like restaurant tipping.

What other tipping is there?

Like cow tipping? I don't know why my initial thought was cow tipping when you asked about tipping. But here we are talking about cow tipping.

Maybe it shouldn't be a surprise his mind went to cow tipping. During the '70s, it became a bit of an urban myth in America, fueled even more in the '80s with movies like Tommy Boy and Heather's, which both featured a healthy dose of cow tipping.

She's sleeping. What you do, you put your shoulder into her and you push. And they fall over. So restaurant tipping, do you miss that?

I do, but I don't miss the wage. I missed the tips because they were hefty, but I relied on tips. I couldn't rely on a livable wage. It's quite refreshing to actually get paid what you should be getting paid and not having to... Going into a shift every day and hoping and not knowing if you're going to make money.

Before we know it, we see a sign for Hobbiton. We pulled off the main motorway. We don't have freeways in New Zealand, and we're winding down a fairly narrow road surrounded by a lot of grass and a lot of sheep. 20 minutes of this, and we see the main gates of the movie set. We've arrived.

This is cliché a textbook New Zealand, right?

Can you just describe what you're seeing right now.

I'm seeing sheep on a hill in fucking Hobbiton. It's literally Teletobu land.

I've heard them in Teletobu land. There are about 100 sheep staring at us right now.

The first thing that strikes me at 8:30 AM in the morning is that Hobbiton is really busy. We drive past about five giant tour busses, and we're waived through several already full car parks by a guy in a vest. This place is packed. There were 158 locations used to shoot the Lord of the Rings films in New Zealand, and Hobbiton is definitely the most famous.

No, you know what I've imagined happened? I imagine they got the bulldozers in after the movie stopped, and then someone who now owns the place goes, Wait, don't touch it.

I've got an idea.

Don't touch this.

Who wants to get rich?

Picture this. Hobbiton. And now it's Hobbiton, and now that fucker is rich.

We head towards the front desk to meet up with the big cheese of Hobbiton.

My name's Shane Forest, and I'm general manager of tourism out here at Hobbiton Movieset.

He loads us into a little van, and we set off on the short drive to the Shire.

We've been operating out here at Hobbiton a movie set. Tours for just over 20 years, about 21 years now. So it started in 2002. It was originally the remnants left over from the Lord of the Rings trilogy. So Hobbiton for the Lord of the Rings was built just to be here for the duration of filming, which was only a few months, and then pulled down. But in that time, the first movie hit the cinema and the locals recognized the mountain ranges in the back of the Shire in the movie on the big screen, and they realized Hobbiton was on their back doorstep. So the Alexander family had people knocking on their door asking if they could come and have a look around. That's how tourism started. So the first eight or so years, it was just through the remnants. Cattle stop. That was just through the remnants of Hobbiton. But then in 2008, 2009 was the big breakthrough. When Sir Peter Jackson came back, said he wanted to rebuild for the Hobbit trilogy, the Alexander family said, Yep, sounds perfect, but can be built permanent? Sir Peter Jackson said, I was thinking the exact same thing.

That's when the movie set was built permanently for the Hobbit trilogy and left behind as a little bit of a monument to Middle-earth, which is pretty special for us here in New Zealand.

So in short, they built Hobbiton for the first Lord of the Rings movie on some guy's farm. And the whole thing was going to be torn down afterwards. Then the movie came out, got huge, and people started freaking out about Hobbiton. So they kept it and started charging people to visit. Pretty much like what Matt theorized in our drive here. When Peter Jackson decided to make another three movies for the Hobbit trilogy, the set got even fancier. And here we are, a private farm owned by the Alexander family, which also happens to be the Shire, one of the most well-known movie sets on the planet.

We've just driven through the gates of the Alexander Farm. This is the 1,250 acre farm with 13,000 sheep, 300 Angus beef cattle, still farmed on a daily basis by the Alexander family. It's just a short trip out through this rural New Zealand site to the movie set.

I mean, this is classic New Zealand, isn't it? We've got an American with me here and it's blown away by the sheep and the landscape.

Yeah, it is. It is really quintessential Kiwi countryside out here, the beautiful rolling green hills. While it's not quite as green as it usually is, It's a little bit hot at this time of year, so we do get a little bit dried out in the grass, but still pretty good. But the beautiful rolling hills, the scattered tree lines, and the mountain ranges you see as we come around this corner, that's the reason they chose this location out here in the heart of the Waikato.

Shane tells me that as far as tourists go, about 20 % are from New Zealand and about 15 % are from America. Then it's pretty much people from everywhere else. He parks up the van and we head towards a gate that leads directly into Hobbiton. You enter the same place that Gandalf does in the movie. And walking into this place, it does take your breath away. It doesn't feel like a ride or an attraction or even a set. You're literally just walking into the Shire. This world opens up around you, rolling hills little hobbit gardens and hobbit houses with hobbit smoke coming out the chimneys. It's hard to explain, but it just feels real.

You must have seen some amazing reactions from mega fans that come in here. People must lose their shit.

Yeah, there's people that grow up reading the books and then watch the movies multiple times a year. The biggest fan I've had out here is a gentleman from Germany that came in. He walked in, saw Hobbiton in front of him, started hyperventilating and kissing the ground. But then he started hyperventilating so much, he actually had a nosebleed. So we had to take him out of Hobbiton in, get him nice and well established, and bring him back in again.

I love that a fan loved it so much, he started bleeding. There are 44 hobbit holes across 12 acres of Hobbiton. You could easily lose a day in here. They're smart in how they run it, and that they purposefully leave the tour group separated out. So you feel like you're here on your own. It's not like the Star Wars thing at Disney, where you're tripping over people the whole time.

But as you look around, there's just the little hobbit hole scattered throughout. And as we're talking before, you feel like you could see a hobbit around here at any minute. There's the clothes hanging up on the lines, but someone was actually employed in the movies to walk from the hobbit hole to the clothes line over and over again. So all the tracks got a nice natural flatten look to them. So that's part of the process as well, teaching people about how this movie set was created. And Then the smoking chimneys, which is really nice. Basically an open fish smoker. There's some wood chips on the inside. There's the team that go through in the morning, light those up, and just continuously top them up throughout the day. But that's really nice as well. We try and engage all the sensors out here at Hobbiton. So as you walk through, you get the smell of burning wood as well, which makes this feel like a real living village.

I turned to Matt, and while he's not a giant Lord of the Rings fan, his mouth is literally hanging open.

It's lacking that gimmicky thing. It's way more authentic than that. It's not a movie set. It's way more immersive than that.

There's so much detail around us. Little hobbit clothes lines and little hobbit clothes, tiny spades and little wheelbarrows. I meet up with Josie Keen, who's fiddling with some tiny hobbit books. She's the set decorator here at Hobbiton.

I came on a tour seven years ago and I never left. No, I'm serious. I was on a working holiday and I came on a tour and my tour guide was like, Wow, you nerd. You should work here. I was like, Oh, my gosh. I didn't realize you could just apply for a job. I thought you were just appointed. Yeah, and that's how I started in the art department.

I realized that despite being in New Zealand and in the Shire, I'm beginning to be outnumbered, outgunned by Americans.

Any quirks of New Zealand that you find quite funny compared to America America. Have you noticed how the water level in our toilets is way lower than it is in America?

I think, honestly, the major difference was the first time I walked in a mall and everyone was barefoot. That was weird. I wouldn't do that in a major American city.

We love our bare feet.

Yeah. No, I loved it, too. I was just discombobulated. It was really strange.

As we walk along a hobbit path past multiple hobbit holes, we bump into Kate. She's a conductor, making sure the tour groups are in the right place. She's also American. Apparently, she was also in one of the Lord of the Rings movies.

I was basically hired because of my height.

They hired us to be the villages in the background here.

What movie are you in?

I was in The Hobbit, The Battle of the Five armies.

So you were shooting here. How long ago was that? Maybe 2010? 2011. So you were here while they were shooting Rooming Round, Being a Hobbit? Yes.

They dressed me up, and I got to be in the scene where Bilbo had his auction out front. They We're selling all his furniture. I was one of the hobbits at the auction.

I feel quite surreal because you're still at this place. You're in the film, but now you're working at this place still. Does your reality sometimes get a bit fucked up? Say, Am I in the movie? Is this real? What's real? What's not?

I actually love the experience in the books and the movies so much that I applied for a job here.

It's not hard getting staff for this place, is it? No.

We love our jobs.

Looking at all the Americans gathered me, I start to get confused about where I am. My worlds are colliding. I wonder if it's some honey trap for Americans, drawing them in like Golem to that ring.

I'm terrible with accents. Where are you from originally?

I'm from Ohio in the States.

What do you miss from the Midwest?

There's a few foods that I will go back and bring with me here.

But other than that- What food would you sneak back into New Zealand?

Don't have to sneak. It's not illegal. It's great. Where I am from, we have what they call Cincinnati Chilly, which they actually add a bit of cocoa to the chili, and it's a great addition.

So I always get that when I bring it here.

We continue on and into this big open field. I'm told this is the party field where Bilbo had his 111th birthday. This is the party tree, which is apparently one of the most famous trees in the world. The fact this pine tree was fully grown here a few decades ago is part of the reason Hobbiton's here in the first place. When they were scouting the movie, they saw the tree and were like, Let's land there and look at it. As we walk on, I hear a rusty old miał and this old, motly cat idles up to us.

So Pickles, our cat, she was discovered during filming, I believe, when someone was coming in to work and saw her on the side of the road in a box. So they picked her up and raised her, and she entertains tourists. She's about 14 now. She'll sometimes lead groups, or she'll go sit on top of a mailbox where she knows she's going to be photographed because she's just used to it at this point. She's really taken to the fan well, I think, gracefully.

I pat Pickles, the rescue cat. Pickles is in, she was in a pickle. And then we keep walking around round. We go to Bag End to Bagshot Row.

This is where our second most iconic hobbit hole is here. This is the home of Sam and his wife Rosie. So Sam, of course, spoiler alert, gets his happy lever after at the end of Lord of the Rings, settles into number three, Bagshot Row here.

Now, this whole time we've been walking past all these hobbit holes, their round, brightly-colored doors have been shut. You can't go inside because there isn't really anything inside. This is fake. But back in December, they opened a new thing in Hobbiton where they dug deep into the hill and actually built in a whole hobbit house. I'm a bit scared to say this, but it's basically the perfect house for Monica Padman.

They exacerbated the hillside in the Matter Matter Township. They built all the interiors Then down in Wellington, they did all the soft furnishings, the beds, the furniture. There were three builds happening simultaneously. Then they came back together, rebuilt it all in one spot, so we could make sure the project was finished in nine months. Now it's pretty exciting to be able to venture beyond the doors and see how a real hobbit family would live.

I'm not a giant fan of this particular series, but I'm excited to go inside.

So in a bit, this 6'2 Kiwi opens the door of a tiny hobbit hole owned by the Proudfoot family and steps inside.

Oh, it's exciting stuff. Cliffhanger? It's exciting stuff. It's a cliffhanger. Oh, my gosh. It's a cliffhanger as these episodes get.

I can't wait to hear about it.

You would... I mean, we'll get into it, but it's really cool. It is really neat in there. The thing about it, and it's hard to get across an audio, you walk in there and it is like you were in the movie. There's no signs or ropes.

It's just the movie. But does it feel amusement parky?

Not at all. See, that's what's interesting. No, you're literally... You were just in the world of the Shire and there's rolling hills and landscapes. It's massive. You're surrounded by it. It's a bit like if you go to Super Mario land at Universal, Yeah. You're surrounded. Any park, right? You're surrounded by the park. This is naturally done. So you're surrounded by hills. It's not like you look in the background and there's a normal human house. It's just purely little hobbit holes in the ground. And also, do you know what I'm talking about Can I say hobbit hole? Is this making sense?

I feel like that's a small hut.

It's a small hut. It's a small hut. But it's built into the ground. So there'll be a rolling hill, but the door goes into the hill.

Oh, that's cool.

And so the magical thing, what's just happened, you can open that door now and you go, holy shit, I'm actually going into the hill. And there's a whole house there with rooms and bathrooms and dining tables. And it's all there. But nobody No, no one does Hobbit's Hunter. No one lives there, but they make it look like it is lived in. And so, as I'm saying, they light the chimneys every day. There's like a little smoke machine. So smoke's coming out of the hill from the little Hobbit house. It is really stunning what they've done.

I'm surprised they wouldn't make a place. Aren't they doing that with Disney?

Oh, you can go and live there? Yeah. I mean, that's what an American would do. I think that's how an American would think is like, we're going to sell these lots for millions and people are going to live in this place.

People would do it.

No, they would. Another thing I was thinking about that's different to how America would run it, and I always find this interesting. So they made a decision not to have any characters, so you don't get a little hobbit actor popping out of the hole. But that somehow makes it even more believable because I find it so funny when you're at like, there's nothing better when you're at like a Star Wars thing. And they got a real bad Luke that comes out and you're like, and these sets are amazing and they're built, probably billions of dollars go into it. And then we got little man comes out and you're like, oh, God, this is like a bad birthday party. Can I look at Rob sitting over there now and I'm like, fly him to New Zealand, put you in a hole. If you came out of one of those holes, I'd maybe buy it.

They have one in San Diego. They built one that you can rent on Airbnb. Oh, just one house? A little hobbit house. Yeah, that's built into a hill.

That is really neat, actually.

I've wanted to Stay there.

Yeah, you should go and check it out. They have a friend's apartment on Airbnb also.

All that themed little worlds. Okay, a little potential Christmas present for Rob. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Helix Sleep. Now, probably like you, I love sleeping so, so much. And I love sleeping on a good mattress, which is where Helix comes in. I got a Helix mattress about two and a half years ago now. It arrived at my door like a small miracle, and off I went. The Helix lineup offers 20 unique mattresses, including the award-winning Lux collection, the newly-release Helix Elite collection, and a mattress designed for big and tall sleepers like me. If you've got kids, there's even a mattress made just for them. To find the mattress for you, you just take the Helix Sleep quiz and find your perfect mattress in under two minutes. And your personalized mattress is shipped straight to your door free of charge. I took the Helix Sleep quiz and was matched with a midnight mattress because I tend to sleep on my side, and I was straight into it, old mattress out the door. The fact is everyone's unique and everyone sleeps differently.

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I'm going to venture into that hobbit hole soon. But first, there's this Lord of the Rings meme that's always made me absolutely lose it. It services every few years doing the rounds, and inevitably, I get sent it again and again because people I know know I love it. The video is titled The Lord of the Rings, but with female interactions only. It starts out with the iconic Lord of the Rings score, massive and huge. Then it cuts to all the instances of females interacting with other females across the 9 hour, 18 minute run time. And it's this. Where is Mama? That's it. Three seconds. A tiny girl says, Where's Mama? Her mother shushes her, and the credits roll. The point is, when it comes to the BecDile test, the Lord of the Rings doesn't fair particularly well. In saying that, the meme is not entirely accurate. Youtuber Yormelich commenting, You missed two more scenes. The girl has a scene where she talks to her mother, and then there's another where a and thanks Eeroan for bringing them to Helms Deep. All three are in the second movie, and all three are about two seconds long, and the other two are only in the extended version.

I suppose a lot of people would call the meme Woke, as it's making the point that a lot of the Lord of the Rings is just men talking and talking, like I am now. But I just find this clip very funny and could watch it all day. Where is Mama? I also find it very funny that the little kid who says, Where's Mama? Is my friend Olivia Tenet.

I think my friend Kyla was the first to send it to me. She's a Lord of the Rings fan, so she probably follows some Lord of the Rings account and sent it to me.

Liv Tenet gets sent that meme a lot. Now, I thought about tracking down one of the giant lead role Lord of the Rings actors for this episode, but I realized that if you want Frodo, then just listen to the Elijah Wood episode of Armchair Expert. I wanted to talk to Liv, now 33 years old, living happily in New Zealand with her husband and kid. I wanted to know about that meme scene.

I was nine when I filmed it And I played Freda, who was a Rohan child.

What was it like being an actor at nine? Do you remember the day you got that role? Was that a big deal?

Not a big deal?

What was that like?

I'd done a couple of projects before. I'd done an ad, an anti-smacking campaign, Quite Dark. And I'd done an episode of Xena, which is classic. And then I auditioned for this with my real brother, because he is also an actor. They wanted a brother-sister combo. But then the awkward thing was I got cast, and my brother didn't. But we now realize that that was probably because the boy that got cast as my brother in the movie looked more like me than my real brother. It was very good matching.

Liv appeared in the second film in the trilogy, The Two Towers. With all three movies shot together in '99 and 2000, there was no big concept of how they were going to do. It's not like the Marvel films where one comes out, they check the box office, then the studio greenlights the next one. Peter Jackson shot all three at once. So Liv's mom, she had no idea what this role meant for her kid.

When I got the role, My agent rang my mom and said, Liv's been booked for this thing. The fee is going to be this. And my mom's reply was, Oh, Linda, we won't be able to afford that. What? And my agent was like, No, no, that's what she gets paid. You don't have to pay anything. My mom really didn't know how it worked at all.

Now, I wanted to know one main thing. I wanted to know what led up to that big meme moment in the movie from the woman herself.

I have to preface this by saying I'm not a Lord of the Rings fan. I have not watched the film in a long time. I'm not the person to ask. I know my name, which was Frida. I know that I was a Rohan child. I know that Robin Malcolm played my mom. I know that the town of Rohan the town, that's what I'm calling it, is attacked by- Orks.

Orks.

Or Urukai, is that another type of monster?

No idea. I won't butt in. They were attacked.

And so We are told to evacuate. There's a very emotional moving scene where my mother puts me on a horse and I'm crying and saying, I don't want to go. I don't want to go. And then I'm sent away with my brother on this horse. And then we are wondering for days. Then there's a shot of Gandalf coming out onto a hill and looking out and seeing a small child on a horse. And that's you. That's me. Cut to me eating soup in In the Great Hall. Miranda Otto is there talking to me. And that's the mean moment.

And can you just take me through what the scene is?

Yeah, sure. So we've arrived at the Great Hall. We're being fed soup by Miranda Otto's character. I just say to her, Where's Mama? And she just says, Shh. Where is Mama?

As you would to a traumatized child who's asking for her mother who she's been separated from.

Do remember how many takes you did of that? Or was that one take wonder?

We did that so much because I remember the soup got colder and colder and colder. And I do remember Peter Jackson coming over to us and being like, so you guys have got to look like you're starving. Because We'd stopped eating it because I was like, this is gross now. And so then we were just having to shovel down cold soup. So, yeah, think of the children, guys.

How often does that mean come around to haunt you, would you say? Is it every month, every couple of years, every decade decade.

Oh, every couple of weeks at the moment. Yeah, it's really doing the rounds.

I have to say this surprised me. The movie was released in 2002. That's 22 years ago. She's 33 now. And a few times every week, she still gets sent that one line she uttered when she was nine.

There's that thing of never read the comments. I read the comments. Someone had been like, This is Peter Jackson's children. They were only in the film because they're Peter Peter Jackson's kids. And I sat being like, How do I respond to this?

Being like, I'm not Peter Jackson's Kids.

And then I was like, What am I doing? Just delete, delete, delete. I didn't reply to that person, but I'm not Peter Jackson's child. I wish I was known.

Of course, nine-year-old Liv did a lot more in that film than that me moment. She tells me she shot for a total of 18 days over the course of a year, and that involved another key scene, one that was a lot scarier than Cold soup.

And then there's shot of Gandalf coming out onto a hill and looking out and seeing a small child on a horse. And that's you. That's me.

You're a nine-year-old thrown on the back of a horse. Did you know how to ride a horse at that point? Was that a new thing for you?

It was a new thing with horses. They did give us a few lessons to get us all trained up. But I remember it as a nine-year-old, the horse being absolutely huge. I think they probably were X race horses. So this horse was massive. And for the shot where they needed me on this hill looking lonely that Gandalf looks out to. So they put me on the horse with a stunt rider dressed as my brother's character. And what they wanted was us on this hill, the stunt guy, to fall off and me be left alone on the horse. And so they were like, Yeah, that seems fine. We can make that work. So they put miles away from the crew and my mom, who was my chaperone, because I wanted this huge wide shot to look like we were really alone, no one else around. And the stunt guy drops off and the horse starts to freak out. And so we're on top of this hill and the horse is freaking out and it loses its footing, and it starts going backwards down this hill. It just freaking out, and it reared. And the crew and my mom just start sprinting across this field, expecting me to be flattened onto this horse.

And I remember it happening and just thinking, I just have to get off. And so I just swung my leg off and jumped down and covered my head because I just remember thinking these hooves are going to just fall back on me. Yeah, everything was fine. I was just lying on the grass. But my mom then said that they still needed the shot. So they said to me, Are you okay getting back on the Of course. And my mom being like, I'm not answering for Liv. She's just had this quite traumatic experience. She needs to call it. And apparently I was just like, We can do it again.

Save the day. You got the shot. Save the day. I mean, what?

But at nine, you are probably just like, Okay, sure. There's a lot of people here. I'll do it.

I thank Liv for her time and insight. And it's time for me to head back to Hobbiton. As I left things, I was about to stoop over and enter my first hobbit hole. Stepping in, I wonder if Monica would have to bend over at all. Walking down the front corridor, I'm in another world. The tiny corridor opening into a tiny hobbit lounge. And yet it's all so vast down here. I thought it would be a dinky thing, but this underground burrow goes on and on. It feels like someone is living here. The lounge I'm in, complete with a crackling fire, and all the rooms coming off it, it feels lived in.

It's been beautifully crafted and looked and created by a majority of people that worked on the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit trilogy. Sir Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh were involved as well in Philippa Buyns, so they created a narrative of the hobbits that would live here. In this case, it's the Proudfoot family. They live here with their two children and baby plus their grandfather.

It's got a whole backstory.

The whole backstory. It's very much part of that glimpse of how a movie set is constructed. There's a narrative that's created and then that informs the art department and all the theme that goes on in here. There's no hobbits in here. The grandfather's not asleep in the bed, but you feel like you could see a hobbit at any minute.

Absolutely. I mean, the fire's on. It feels so lived in.

You do not give me a chance to not believe this is real. It's relentlessly real. It's like, I'm there.

Honestly, it is that thing where, yeah, if you're in America, there'd be a cone up or like some little, some what.

It's like a thing ushering you through. Ushering you through 100 %.

We are a movie set. We're very different than a theme park. America does theme parks really, really well. But we are different.

There's nothing here to take you out of the experience. The closest thing is probably the exit signs, but even they're disguised.

You won't even let me not believe it with the exit signs. It's a hobbit running through a hobbit hole. Shut up.

Then when we come here into the hobbit hole, people are surprised that things aren't behind glass. You can actually physically touch and pick things up and get some photos and play with things, sit down on the couches. As long as you remove your shoes, which hobbits don't have, you can jump into the beds and get some photos as well. People are, because we're trusting them and their fans, they are very respectful.

I turn to Josie, the set decorator who's followed us in, probably to make sure I don't pinch any tiny hobbit props for Monica's eventual housewarming.

What do you make it? I mean, this is your domain.

Oh, this is the dream. I get to craft things authentically and give that to people and watch them interact with it and feel like they're in a book series that I've loved my whole It's the playhouse that I dreamed of in my head as a kid, and I get to work in it and make things for it. It's just the best. The day we opened, I just lurched in corners to watch because I was so excited, and I saw a whole bunch of people. This It was dumb, but people my height. I'm a shorty. I'm not an average height person. I kept seeing people go, Oh, my gosh, the couch fits me. Oh, wow, the beds fit me. I was just crying quietly in a corner because I was so overwhelmed. It was the best feeling in the world. This world is made for me, and I get to make it for other short people, and that means something.

We spend about 30 minutes existing in this hobbit house. I get into a tiny hobbit bank. I sit down at a tiny hobbit dining room table. I sit on a hobbit toilet, and I get into a tiny hobbit bath. There's even a tiny hobbit kitchen.

I need a hobbit version of Gordon Ramsey right now. I need a short little Gordon Ramsey running It is a messy kitchen, mid-cook. This is wild.

Little pies fresh out of the oven.

The oven is on.

This is a recipe book? And it's oven's hot.

Get out.

I hold my hand to the oven and it's hot. That attention to detail is crazy. I learned that 280 people work here to keep Hobbit in running. There's a whole team just to look out to the various veggies gardens.

I can see where the German I had a nosebleed at all.

Finally, it's time to go. We exit through the gift shop and there's everything from Hairy Hobbit feet to the Lord of the Rings ring. Of course, you can buy the films on DVD, too. Matt has his eyes on a doormat.

I think that you got, or the thou shalt not pass a doormat, which is so clever.

Good gag, isn't it?

It's a good gag. Yeah.

He ends up going with a baggy end tea towel as well. I realized New Zealand shares something with America, a love of Gift Shops. Maybe we aren't so different after all.

That was my experience at Hobbiton.

That was fantastic. I love a gift shop.

This gift shop was really impressive.

I wonder if you could do an episode on gift shops, even though, like you said, they're everywhere.

Americans do do them well. Yeah. And I just find it very funny. I did do a good gag with a friend where I said I was going to bring them something special from the Lord of the Rings Hobbiton Gift Shop. And I bought them the two towers on DVD.

Oh, you did?

They sell those things. And I should know that it's all incredibly interactive, but you can't use the toilet. You can't. Okay. So I sit in the dock. I was sitting on it. I was just posing. I wasn't taking like...

I see. A poop.

Where do you use the toilet?

Where you go. That's a good question. There's this little cafe outside Hobbiton, and they have toilets there. But you can't do normal size shits in a tiny Hobbit toilet. Yeah, that wouldn't- Don't try. That wouldn't work. But you can get in everything. I climbed in the bath. You can in the beds, you can climb on the banks. It's very interactive.

They're not worried about liability or anything. This is New Zealand. I know. It's all I could think is I can't believe they're not making you sign a waiver.

If you climbed in that little hobbit bank and I fell off the ladder I've been in her at myself. We have a thing called ACC, and the government just covers all your injuries. So you can't sue in New Zealand. So I couldn't sue Hobbiton. It just wouldn't legally be possible. But the government will go, yeah, we will pay for your rehab from the time you fell out of that hobbit bed for two months rehab. And that's all built into the deal. So, yeah, I think that's part of it. They let you do things you wouldn't normally do otherwise. Right. It's probably why when Tom Cruise made that Mission Impossible movie with the helicopters, I think the only place in the world where he was allowed to do those stunts in a helicopter was New Zealand. Right. Got this weird loose thing going on.

That's so interesting. I really loved your friend's acting story.

How fun. So the weirdest thing is, she's not like a close I have this personal friend, but I've known her forever. And when I first saw that meme, I didn't realize it was her. And then someone at one point is like, that's Liv. I'm like, oh, my God, that is Liv. I love how decades on, she's still got people sending her. Of course. This annoying meme of her going, Mama, where's Mama? And her mom being like, Shh, shh.

But it wasn't her mom. It was a different person. It was hard to follow. I mean, all these words and names. I get it because I love Harry so much. And if I'm talking to someone who doesn't get it, it's the same thing.

No, totally. No, I think Miranda Otto was the actor who played her mom. She couldn't remember what her actual mom in the film was called. So she was just remembering actors that she was playing with.

But I thought she got taken from her mom.

In the film, she did. And also in reality, she got taken from her mom because they popped her on that horse.

Oh, my God. Can you imagine the idea of Seek My Kid, Fall Off A Horse? It is so dangerous.

People die. Horses are wild. I always find it funny how, and maybe it's not the same in New Zealand. Parents will happily let their little girl ride a horse. And if their other kid wants to do, or that same girl wants to do motorcross.

Exactly.

Don't even think about it. It's like horses are animals. Dangerous. They're unpredictable in wilds. It's mad.

A lot of people die. Can you look at how many horse deaths? It's by horses. Because they do. She was smart to cover her head because they kick.

Being able to swing her leg off and get off was in a amazing thing. And then covering her head up. Also love that she just went and did it again.

I know. I would have totally done that.

Would have been so people-pleasy. There's another thing she talked about, and she probably an episode just on her own, but she also shot so many other scenes that just never made into the film. So she shot a lot, but there's so much that didn't even make it in, just these little moments. Oh, man.

There's about 710 horse riding related deaths per year in America. In America?

It's a lot. I mean, that's a lot. Yeah. If you fall off a horse, you really got to get out of the way quick because when they kick, often they'll kick your abdomen and you internally bleed.

Oh, God. Just because that's the height that you're at behind a horse.

Or you're on the ground and they can't see you and they have such force.

Yeah. No, they're strong things. I went to a stage when I was 10 of getting into horse riding. I had a year of horse riding, equestrian. I was before I'd had a growth spirit, so I was a bit smaller. I was scared of them. I think you're either a horse person or you're not. I always was a bit like, I don't trust you. I don't like the way you're looking at me.

People love horses. There's a whole equine therapy.

Do you know about this? Not really.

It's a whole method of therapy using horses. And apparently they have some calming-Effects.

Haling powers.

Haling powers.

In saying that my niece has a horse and she loves that horse. And there is something about the... They are calm. They're majestic. It was big eyes.

And it's never tried to kick me, very friendly.

Yet. I saw, and I wonder if this is a dream or real. Sometimes you don't know.

I know. I agree.

They take cats and dogs into hospitals to jump on the bed and comfort people. I'm sure there was a hospital somewhere in America that was doing horse therapy. And I just remember this tiny old lady near death in a hospital bed. It's just this giant horse next to her in the ward. In the hospital?

Okay, this is a dream for sure.

No, I'm seeing Wait, really?

You're the same dream? Yeah.

What the hell? Now, I've seen a lot of photos of horses in hospitals.

No, they take them in. If I was a hospital director, I'll be like, If it goes well, great. But if they start kicking the IV machine and all that. Right, exactly. Also, have you seen a horse take a dump or a piss? Oh, my God. It's horrifying.

Can you imagine a horse emptying its bladder in a ward?

That feels not good.

In New York City, when you're walking through Central Park because they have all the carriages and stuff.

They've got to stop doing that. They've got to stop doing that. There's just enormous dumps everywhere. They've got to stop doing that. I put my animal rights hats on, but there's footage and when they make the horses do that in the height of summer. And there's shots where they just get so fatigued, they just drop down like they're done. They really need to stop that horse-drawn shit. But yeah, and it was just shit everywhere. Yeah.

They're wearing an outfit in the hospital. There's a gown it's wearing. So maybe it's catching the shit.

Is this a surgeon?

The horse is operating. Maybe catching the shit.

I wasn't a dream.

Wow. I was 99% dream on that.

I wish right now I'd tee up a horse walking to the attic in my moniker. There's a surprise.

Oh my God.

It's like horse clops in.

It just poops immediately everywhere.

Have you ever been on the back of a horse? Have you ever had a ride as a kid?

I feel like I have at daycare if we went on a trip. You know, you went on all these day trips or whatever. I'm sure I was on the back of a pony.

Yeah, right. I did one of those tourist see things where you can go to a little ranch in Hollywood and you can get horses and walk up the walking tracks on a horse. And you did that. I feel like the horse I got was about 102. He was very sloppy on his feet and he insisted on walking on the edge of the path. No, no, no, no. And that felt bad. I'm not going to do that. I feel like those... I'm not going to do that again.

I've probably ridden two dozen horses. Two dozen? All the time when I was a little... Who are you? Vacations, that's what we would do. You'd go. Family trips, we'd a little horseback riding. You're right. On a trail, nothing crazy.

Yeah, I could see you on, especially the way you're dressed right now. I can see you on the back of a horse.

I would wear this when I went on. It would be true.

Kate would be trailing behind you. A lot of horses in Lord of the Rings. Okay. I think Thinking of Liv, brave Liv on the back of that horse, I think that's something probably that makes these movies so respected is they got the real horses and they got the real people. I think there's something about those films when you watch them where, sure, there's CG, but it's also very grounded and real. I think something about that has made these movies last so much longer and people love them so, so much.

I need to watch and see what I think.

Same.

Yes. I think we need to come in.

I mean, it's bad form that I did this episode without having watched the trilogy, but it's a lot of time. It's over nine hours.

You guys will like it. I mean, it's about a band of different species coming together to conquer evil.

Because there's like- Full wine common good.

There's dwarf, there's elves, there's humans, there's hobbits.

I like the idea of it.

It's got that actor in it, Legolas. Orlando Bloom. Orlando Bloom. That was his big thing.

And Vigo Mortensen.

Vigo Mortensen.

Yeah.

But when these things were being shot in New Zealand, and these actors just lived there for years. So you occasionally see these people wandering around.

Does the New Zealand airport, like the Roswell Airport, is it immediate?

In Auckland, I don't know if they do any more. The main Auckland, they have- The eagles? So eagles are in Wellington. The Wellington Airport goes ham. So it's actually amazing. So they've got these giant eagles overhead when you walk through arrivals.

Gandalf rides eagles.

I think he's on the eagle. That's the old man I saw on top of the eagle. That's Gandalf. Yeah. And also, New Zealand is very famous for its in-flight entertainment videos. You know how sometimes in an American airline, you'll get a wacky video where they're not in plane seats, they're somewhere else, and they try and make it a bit cool and edgy? In the old days, they were all just like, they're on a plane. This is how you do your oxygen mask and your seatbelt. What New Zealand started doing our airline Air New Zealand was doing, and a lot of this was really solidified when Lord of the Rings came out, doing wacky in-flight videos. Really? It started there. It ended up being a marketing campaign, whereas I think Taikoaitidi directed one of them. What? And it's just They're in hobbit land and they're putting on seat belt, so they're on the back of an eagle. Oh, my God. And that, I think, made the other airlines, and the other airlines never do it as well. And I think Air New Zealand doesn't do them that well anymore either. But my point is, New Zealand invented the wacky in-flight entertainment video.

And the airport is- Very Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings.

It is really cool. That's a massive giant eagle flying overhead, Gandalf's on the back. Oh my God. So New Zealand really does embrace it. And there is a guidebook you can buy where it basically takes you to all 250 locations. And there's people that come to New Zealand, probably that- Just for that. Nosebleeding German, who just spend their entire time in New Zealand seeing all the places. I know.

I really like that. I like when there's something that brings people together. Yeah. That's really nice. There's so few things like that anymore. Totally. I do want to go into one of those small hobbit holes.

It's amazing. And it's hard to describe how lived in and magical it feels. You feel like you're in another universe and it's lived in and it's there. An interesting thing they did tell me is that it's not scaled as it is in the movie, because they said, if we made it the actual heights that Tolkien laid out for a hobbit hole, humans would go in there and you'd just be uncomfortable. You'd be bent over, you'd be banging your head. So they scale it up to a point where it still feels tiny. But it's like a human level where you're not crawling around having a nightmare. So they have done a very... So going in there, I was like, oh, yeah, this is what the actual size would be like. It feels small. But they're like, no, we've scaled the shit up because we were planning how it could have been if it was actually accurate. People will be having a horrible time. They'll be crawling around on all fours, bumping their head. I'd say maybe four and a half feet in through a doorway. You have to really- Get down. But you would have to couch a little.

You're not that short. I just like doing jokes about high because.

I am very short.

When that wonderful woman that was doing all the props and everything, she just got really emotional.

Emotional. I think that's so sweet.

Yeah, just love people feeling like, oh, this is a universe that was built for me.

There's something about seeing the fruit of your labor. She spends her life doing this bizarre thing and then seeing people like it.

Just lose their mind.

Yeah, it must feel so good.

And I also love the other employee there that was in the movies. Her scene shot there, and now she works there. She's been doing that for almost 15 years. What a lie. It's just a very... Yeah, and it was funny. There are quite a few Americans that do work there, and I always said, what does your family think you're doing? They don't understand. They're like, you're working in the Shire? What the hell? What are you doing in New Zealand? It's just such a funny thing to do.

I don't know. It sounds appealing to me. It sounds like if you need a break from the world, the real world, and everyone needs a break from the real world because it's intense, that's a nice place to go or a nice place to work and immerse yourself in.

And correct me if I'm wrong, Rob, but Hobbiton represents utopia, right? It's the way the world's meant to be. So being there, you feel. It does have a similar vibe to Teletubbies. Just feels like... No, not that. It's a bad... That's bad. But you know how Teletubbies is? This is heightened and magical.

I hate Teletubbies. What are you talking about?

They're so creepy. They are weird.

And are they children?

I assume they were aliens from another planet or something.

But they were young.

Were they like, young-ish?

I hope because they act... They're pedophiles. I feel like there's something. They're grown men.

There's something off.

I feel like there's something. Well, men invented them.

Yeah, they did. I mean, no, that was a bad comparison. Hobbiton is not like Tally Tubby land. I guess I just mean they're both heightened.

They have hills. They've got hills. They've got hills.

That's all. That's all it is.

I am never... Now, when I watch Lord of the Rings, all I'm going to see is Teletubby, and it's tainted.

They're barely at the Shire in the movie. They're on their journey most of the time.

I've got one question for you, Rob, about Lord of the Rings, and it's something that I watch on YouTube, but it just always sounds very funny. The very end, spoiler alert, It's the very end. It all goes well in their journey. I think they succeed. The last 10 minutes of Lord of the Rings, I think the hobbits are in a little bed, and all the main characters in the film come to greet the hobbits, and it's just shots of... I'm going to pull it up. I'm going to pull up the final scene.

Just because they like sleeping. I mean, Lord of the Rings-No, but it's just...

It's so like...

Okay. It notoriously had an ending where it ended for a half hour. Where it just kept going and going.

Final Lord of the Rings scene. Okay.

It's very Jesusy. Gwenale? Gwenale? Gwenale?

Yeah. Gwenale? Yeah. Gwenale? Yeah. Okay. It's very Jesusy. Gwenale? Yeah. What the fuck is going on?

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Oh, there's tension. There's tension with these two. I don't know what it is, but...

Yeah, you're watching Sean Austin coming in now? Yeah. You think it's over. Do they hate each other? No, they love. There's love in real life. There's love in the world. Wasn't that amazing?

Wow. I mean, it's hard because I have no idea what came before it.

Yeah, it's just a very beautiful... There's a lot of characters all looking at each other, giggling, and it's fun. And they're jumping on the bed.

You'll cry. There's a whole nine hours leading up to that of their hard journey, and this is...

Right. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Out of context, it looks crazy.

Maybe- Has it intrigued you to watch it now? Are you the type of person who reads the last page of a book? No, never. What I just did is such bad form. It's sacrilegious. But I feel it's been out for so long. I feel okay doing it. You know, my friend Roosevelt, she sometimes will, before a movie, will go to the Wikipedia page and read the Wikipedia page to see if she wants to see the movie or not.

We were just talking about this on a fact check because we called my mom. Dax asked her about the Super Bowl. She She said she was half watching, and she was watching something else. And then we got off and I said, yeah, she's always on many devices. And then often when we start a movie, she looks up stuff about the movie as we're watching it.

Yeah, at relatively spoiling it. I know. Because, you know, Rosebelle would argue, I think that she has limited time. She doesn't want to waste her time. So she wants to have an idea. And I'm sure she doesn't do this with everything. I would never misrepresent her. I feel I might be in this case. But reading a Wikipedia page is one of the funniest things I can imagine because that's synopsis, reception, everything. I'm the guy that when I'm watching trailers, I'll cover my ears and eyes for some trailers because it's giving too much away. I know.

It's so interesting.

Anyway, I'm sorry for spoiling the end of Lord of the Rings, where they all live and are really happy.

They're all happy.

Sure, some people die along the way. People die. People die. Does Golem live or die? I'm not going to tell you. Okay, fair enough.

Well, I feel the same as far as the The same amount of New Zealand, the same amount of American.Unchanged.Unchanged. But I am intrigued.

Watch part one. Yeah. Just three hours and see how you feel after that. And then you know you've got another two Lord of the Rings films. And if you really like those, you've got three Hobbit movies. And then you've got a season of the Amazon show.

Oh, wow. It's a whole world.

And then you've got the book.

I feel like you're more American for having not seen it.

I am actually showing my American colors by not having seen it.

Yes, it's true. You're definitely less New... You're I'm less New Zealand.

I'm more American. I don't know how I feel about that. Thank you for coming on the journey into the Shire with me. That was fun.

Thank you, Liv.

Thank you. Liv is... She's the best.

That was great.

And Rob, thank you for dressing up and getting on theme with today's episode. I hope that you wear it tomorrow. Can you fucking wear that tomorrow? That would be incredible. And that little line with all those people from LA? Absolutely not.

That would be so good.

Thing is, The thing is, it suits you. You'd blend in. You know what? I don't think anyone would say anything. I agree. They're just like, you're a Losvillas resident. And here you are. And try and pay for the coffee with your ring. Okay, bye.

Bye.