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Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert experts on expert I'm DAX Shepard. Hello, I'm Monica Padman. Hi, DAX Shepard. How are you?


I'm good. How are you? Oh, fantastic. Fantastic.


We have a really different type of expert today, which was really fun to talk to Scott Kelly. He's a former military fighter pilot and test pilot and engineer, a retired astronaut and a retired U.S. Navy captain. He is a veteran of four space flights. And Kelly commanded the International Space Station on three expeditions and was a member of the year long mission to the ISS. In October 2015, he set the record for the total accumulated number of days spent in space with three hundred and forty days, the single longest space mission by an American astronaut.


He has a new audio course teaching lessons in preparation, discipline and leadership called Lessons from a Life in Space Available Unknowable with a K knowable, which we will talk about in great depth.


So please enjoy Scott Kelly.


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He's now charged. Is this your office behind you? Yeah, I really like the Lucite box with the full outfit, the astronaut outfit space.


Oh yeah, space suit.


Do you ever see the movie Zathura by chance? No, no one did.


But I played a spaceman and they built me this really cool spacesuit. And then I asked for it afterwards. After we got done filming, they said, no, it's going to go in the Sony archives. And I begged for it. And I wrote a letter to the president of the studio, No luck. And then 13 years later, someone texted me a picture of it being sold on eBay for like thirty dollars.


Well, I'll say this one if you want.


Oh, God. Well, how do you get it? Like, do they want to keep that stuff? That's like an asset of NASA. Is it hard to get it?


It's not easy, but I bought it from the Russian space agency, so.


Oh, that's the way to go. How much is a suit like that cost to make to make? I have no idea because it's made in Russia. And the way they do their accounting is different, I think, than how you would do something in the United States.


Sure, sure. Sure. Well, I saw a great documentary on Showtime about these guys who got busted. They were in process of buying a Russian nuclear sub and they had already successfully bought like six heavy lift helicopters. And they all went down to the Colombian cartels and they bought these helicopters. That would have been like 13 million bucks here for like 60 grand right after the wall fell. You could really get in there if you knew the right person and buy a really expensive piece of equipment for a very reasonable price.


Yeah, I mean, there were guys that bought like the whole mining industry of the former Soviet Union for pennies on the dollar. Hey, you want a nickel mine? Sure. Here's ten thousand dollars for the million dollar mine. Yeah.


Yeah. And they went around and bought people's, like, shares that were issued for nothing. Very fascinating. Yeah.


So we watched I think four episodes of a year in space and I'm really pissed that we didn't discover it before.


I knew we were going to interview you because it's super fascinating. Yeah.


I mean it's really incredibly well done. It's on Netflix a year in space. And when you got approached to do that, were you gung ho or were you apprehensive?


Was that something you were like, oh, that'll be neat or I'll feel really weird doing that?


I think the one that's on Netflix is the PBS special, which was made from these smaller episodes that were produced by Time magazine. Yeah, yeah. I love my mission. And at the time I was working for NASA, so I was approached by NASA Public Affairs and they said, hey, TIME magazine wants to do this profile of you and your mission and mission, my Russian colleague. Are you OK with that? And generally speaking, you know, when you're working for NASA and they want you to do some promotional stuff, you're OK with it because it's part of your job.


So, yeah, it wasn't like I even gave it much thought other than. Yeah, sure. Whatever you guys need, however I can help. Yeah.


I imagine that would be my knee jerk reaction then when a film crew arrives at my house to like film me interacting with my partner, then I'm like, oh OK, we're, we're doing this now. All right. I guess that's part of it. Like, I just wondered if there was any of that once you had already signed on the dotted line. Yeah.


You know, like anything like that. Some of it can be kind of intrusive. Other times, not so much. But, you know, I recognize it's part of the job and they were great. I mean, after all, they put me on the cover of Time magazine, so I felt like I owed them something. Yeah.


You join a very select group of people. Not a ton of folks have graced that cover. How did you end up as an astronaut? What's the path to get to space and how many different routes are there for NASA?


There are two general routes, and that is you're either a member of the military, a military service, or you're a civilian. And of the people that are in the military, you know, a percentage of them, I don't know exact numbers, but especially when the space shuttle was flying. There are pilots. Yeah. That go on to become the pilot and commander of the space shuttle. So that was the path I took. I was a military fighter pilot and test pilot and then applied to become an astronaut.


But there's also civilians that apply to the space program. And, you know, there are generally scientists or engineers, medical doctors, accomplished people in technical fields, and it's about half military, half civilian.


But that's from NASA. Now, we're right on the cusp of other ways to get into space. Private citizens maybe flying eventually on a SpaceX vehicle.


Yeah. What's your knee jerk reaction to that news? I think it's great. Oh, good. Why not? OK, it's an incredible experience. I wish as many people as possible could fly into space.


Yeah, I guess if I were you, but I probably have a more fragile ego than you. I'd be like, OK, so I dedicated my whole life to this. I flew. Fourteen off of an aircraft carrier, but yeah, you should probably just buy a ticket and head on up and then be trusted to not, you know, cause some big fiasco up there.


Well, you know, I recognize that my job and what my responsibilities were different than what you would be doing if you were flying as a, you know, a tourist on a space. It's kind of the difference between maybe being the airline pilot and being the passenger, although make it so clear cut and totally debunk my whole position on it.


But, hey, it's great. I think it's an incredible experience. I think people would care more about the earth and humanity if they had the privilege of seeing the Earth from space. It really changes you.


Yeah, I want to explore that extensively. Incredibly humbling. Right. To look out the window and see Earth and you can't see us.


I mean, you can see the lights we made and, you know, maybe the Great Wall of China, but we're not even visible right now.


You can't see the Great Wall. Oh, you can. No, not with your eye. As a matter of fact, you can't really even see anything man made with your naked eyeball, certainly with binoculars. I mean, I could see my house from the space station. Really?


Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I was always checking for cars in the driveway. Of course. Of course. Did your ring not work all the way up there. You could just use your ring. Yeah, but I bet it would be hard to articulate.


But is what's humbling about it just the scope and size of it and how just physically insignificant we are to that size and scope? What is it exactly?


Well, it's a few things. So one is you see how fragile the environment our atmosphere is. I mean, our atmosphere just looks like a thin film over the surface of the planet, kind of like a contact lens over somebody's eyeball. Yeah. And so you see that. You see the beauty of the earth, incredibly beautiful, almost like the most brilliant blue paint you've ever seen in your life, painted like on a mirror like right in front of your eyes.


Absolutely breathtaking. But you also see pollution, certain parts of the world in some cases, like in certain parts of Asia and Central America, South America, there's certain cities that are almost always covered in a blanket of pollution. Oh, yes. So you can't really see any manmade stuff, really. You could see a city and recognize it. It's a city. But you can't really make out buildings. Right, unless you use a lens or your eye.


The other thing is you don't see any political borders during the daytime.


You do at night a little bit because countries have different colored lights and sometimes they define borders. But it just gives you the sense that we are all on this earth together as humanity and not in this particular country or this particular part of the world, or you feel like you're not in separated into tribes and it's all about humanity. And then, you know, you're doing something absolutely incredible, being able to live and work in space, fly in space.


And you realize that, you know, our species has an incredible amount of capability and potential to do amazing things if we can work together. Yet there are all these problems on the planet. Yeah.


So the notion of the stories we tell and how much we believe in them and how we all agree upon them, I have to imagine the absurdity while looking at the planet, as you say, with no borders, how preposterous the stories we all buy into are from that vantage point, like, oh, really, you guys are different over here and you're different over there. And everyone is so unique and different in your country, so unique and different.


It's got to be a bit laughable once you're up there a little bit.


But sometimes think imagine what an alien species would think about us if they visited Earth.


Probably not a whole lot. No, probably not a lot. This is my goodness. Favorite game is we always talk about the aliens watching the monkeys.


Like one time we witnessed a wedding on accident, things like that. Yeah. The aliens were like, oh, cute.


The monkeys gather and they all sit in a row and everyone seems happy. That's nice.


And then, you know, much more of our behavior is quite inexplicable. They're disappointed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


There's a pandemic and. Yeah, seriously. Yeah. Now once you were flying in A14, how do you throw your hat in the ring to them, pursue a career as an astronaut?


Well, generally, most pilots at NASA, the pilots of the space shuttle and the commanders of the space shuttle or test pilots. So the first step is you apply to and get accepted and graduate from test pilot school. And there are several of those that you can go to. I went to the US Navy test pilot school. There's one in the Air Force, the US Air Force Test Pilot School. Of course, it's not as good as the Navy one.


Right. How could it be the Navy's always better. Yes, you're in the Air Force. You got a Navy guy.


And then there was one of the guys who flew in space with you, went to the French test pilot school. So there are other ones around the world you can go to, but that's really the first step. And then once you're working as a test pilot and there is a application selection process going on, most of the people I found my colleagues in the Navy would apply to the space program. Not all of them. Not everyone was interested, but most of them were assuming they had met some of the other qualifications and felt like they would be competitive.




Was it a dream that you had always had or did it evolve like was dream one, like be Top Gun, be maverick?


No, no, not for me. You know, that is the case for some astronauts. You know, there's certainly a lot of my colleagues and, you know, I wish this was the case for me. Wouldn't be as interesting a story, I think. But there are those people that saw Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and then, you know, got straight A's for the rest of their lives, was always the top of their class. And, yeah, eventually became an astronaut.


My experience was much different because I was such a poor student when I was growing up was impossible for me to pay attention or do homework. I didn't do that well. I was able to get by. I think I have a lot harder time getting by now. I think school has gotten a lot harder. Yeah, fortunately, I was able to kind of just squeak by and graduated in the bottom half of my high school class, went to college, still not doing well and struggling.


Couldn't pay attention really. I was probably on the path to dropping out after my freshman year. And then I just happened to come across Tom Wolfe's book, The Right Stuff. And that really spoke to me in many ways and inspired me that if I could just improve my study skills, maybe I could graduate from college with an engineering degree, maybe I could become a pilot in the U.S. Navy. And if not the Navy, maybe the Air Force, a second choice.


Yeah, Air Force guys love that.


OK, now my first identical twin question. Yeah. Was your identical twin also bad in school? If he was, did it give you the confidence to just go, oh, who gives a shit he's doing bad to? What was their strength in numbers?


Yeah, it did at first. And then like we go into the tenth grade and, you know, over one summer he goes from being a bad student like I was to getting straight A's. Oh, g like for the rest of high school.


He abandoned you. Yeah. And a few years ago I said, hey, how did you do that? Like, what happened? And he goes, You don't remember? Our dad's sitting us down, like right before high school and saying how we were such bad students.


He was going to start thinking about a technical education and career. For the two of us looking into that, I was like, no, I don't remember that at all.


Probably only because there was like a squirrel running outside the window. Had it not been for that squirrel, I'm pretty sure I would have went to Harvard.


So, yeah, you had some probably ADHD issues, maybe some. Yeah. And you missed the pep talk, but your brother got it and he put it into action, which is impressive.


Were you resentful at him because of that? Were you like, what are you doing studying and getting all A's. What's wrong with you. Who are you trying to impress? No, I don't think I was resentful.


It was more embarrassing than anything else that he was able to do. Well, and I wasn't. Yeah, not knowing why or having no idea what the issue was.


This is one of my favorite things about our country, is that it really is a place of a bazillion second chances if you pursue them. So despite that stutter step start of yours, you do find your way into this program. You now we're talking you've spent more time in space than any other astronaut in the history of mankind. Five hundred and twenty days in space. Now you're shaking your head. Is that have you been surpassed?


I've spent more time at one time than any other astronaut, with the exception of me and my friend Misha, who I was there for the nearly a year with. So Misha Kornienko and I have the record for the longest flight on the space station. OK, I have three hundred and forty days. There are other astronauts that have more total time in space.


And I do two of my classmates, actually, Peggy Whitson and Jeff Williams, you know, they did multiple missions, long duration missions, and then there are a bunch of cosmonauts that have more total time.


But Mission I, our record is the, you know, the longest single flight on the space station.


OK, now you might ask yourself, well, how is this super rare experience going to translate into anything applicable here on Earth or in the lives of anyone that would be listening? But they're weirdly is so many in one that's exciting. Right out of the gates for me is the notion that when you were in F 14 pilot, most certainly the adversary you were training for was Russia. Right. Is that safe to say most of your planning was the inevitable conflict between us and the USSR?


Yes, as a matter of fact, the F 14 Tomcat was developed, basically. To protect the aircraft carrier battle group from long range Soviet bombers and their accompanying fighter planes that were sent to protect them, so, yeah, our whole mission was air to air combat, primarily designed against the Soviet Union at the time when I was flying. Interestingly enough, at one point one of my guys I flew in space with a Russian cosmonaut, Dmitry Kondratieff, was a big twenty nine pilot, basically on the other side of the Norwegian border with the Soviet Union.


So had we ever got into any kind of a shooting war in that place and time? It's possible. I would have been fighting a guy that years later I spent several months in space with.


Yeah, it's really wild. And also, you know, there's a very well documented approach to help men wage war in. One of the features of that is to really delineate your enemy as others. So it's us and it's them. And we gave the Germans nicknames. We gave the Japanese nicknames. We gave the Chinese nicknames. This is Vietnam. Don't laugh at me. Vietnamese. No, that's my nickname that I gave them. You know, there's all this kind of structured and intentional otherness.


And I have to imagine that at the height of your involvement and you're spending all your time and energy preparing for this, you had to have had a notion of who they were as the enemy.


Did you fall into that? You couldn't have been that enlightened to not fall into that or were you?


Yeah, we were actually taught about, you know, who our enemy might be, who you would be fighting against from a cultural perspective, what their lives are like, what their motivation is, which is, I think, important when you're training to potentially be in combat with somebody for you to understand what they're like.


Yeah, I think it makes you a better adversary, a better opponent. So, yeah, we were aware of that. And at the time, you know, when I was flying fighters, most of our effort was designed to counter the Soviet Air Force.


And so what some people might not know is that we don't send anyone to space anymore or we now are, as you pointed out, are going to be doing it privately and there will be contractors that do it. But for a very long time, the only route into space was through Star City in Russia.


And so as you become an astronaut and you take your very first trip into space, do you set out on that trip with one notion or fear or expectation that then changes?


But when I became an astronaut, my expectation was I would fly four times, at least on the space shuttle.


And then hopefully by the time that part of my career was over, I would potentially have a chance of flying to the space station again, launching on the space shuttle. Yeah. And spending a, you know, extended time out there. But sometimes reality doesn't meet your expectations initially. And things changed. I flew my first flight in nineteen ninety nine when I come back for that mission and all of a sudden they're trying to send me to Russia to be the head of NASA's office in Star City.


And I was like, what is this all about? I want to be a space shuttle pilot and space shuttle commander.


I drive a Corvette. Yeah. My philosophy has always been that when you're asked to do something that you don't want to do that's challenging, you make an argument. You know why you might be the wrong person, which is what I did, why I would prefer to do something else. But in the end, you know, if your boss, your leadership is asking you to do the tough job, you take it and you do the best job you can.


So that's what I did and got me this Russian experience that I think in retrospect was very helpful because my spaceflight career was very diverse, much more varied than other people like, you know, even my brother Mark, you know, he's flown into space four times. He was the commander of the space shuttle twice, the pilot twice all to the International Space Station. Whereas my career was much different. I went to the Hubble Space Telescope. I was the commander of a shuttle mission to the space station.


But then I lived on the space station for over five hundred days and got to do some spacewalks, just had a much different experience. So, you know, even though you might not appreciate or like the cards you're dealt at the time, you never know what when you look back many, many years later in retrospect and what really the privilege that I had having had one of the most diverse careers, I think, of any astronaut.


Yeah. Now I want to gild the lily just one bit on this, and then I want to get into the fun stuff that happens at the International Space Station. I guess this is promoting my own personal agenda. You have a literal enemy in Russia and then you get into this environment where your survival. Hands on one another and these two humans in this insane device that's orbiting Earth, your humanness is so front and center right, you both need to stay alive.


Are all five of you how many people are up there that all these little layers we've added, I feel like just melt in the reality of what's really going on is you're in this together in any of that other shit is just a mental abstraction. I just want to put it on us. The notion that the people of this country would see themselves as such enemies that they can't see, they're all in this together and we have to do it together to survive.


Is it got to be maddening, knowing what you went through in that you're there with the real Cold War enemy and yet you find a way to be productive and cohesive?


Yeah, it's something that some people have a hard time understanding. But when you're in a situation where you have to rely on each other for helping with your work, for emotional support, for friendship, in some cases, you know, you have to rely on each other literally for our lives in an emergency that transcends any earthly conflict that may exist between our two countries.


And certainly, you know, I think there are situations if things got really, really bad, it could affect the relationships between the astronauts and cosmonauts.


But it would have to be significant because, you know, your friends, your colleagues, you know, I'm friends with some of these cosmonauts. You know, there's some of the best friends I have now, even though I don't work at NASA any longer. And I think they feel the same way. So the earthly politics and conflict doesn't necessarily translate out into space, which is great was one of the great things about the space station program. The International Space Station gives the opportunity for countries that have not always been the best of friends to work in a peaceful, cooperative way.


Oftentimes it's nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Yeah, hasn't won yet. I hope someday it will. I think it should.


I agree. OK, I have some real dumb and fun questions about when you're up there. And of course, we're going to talk at length with lessons from a life in space which is available on knowable, or you teach an audio course about all the different lessons you've learned that are applicable to all of us. We'll get into that. But before we do, I have some curiosity questions.


OK, how do you bathe up there?


You don't you do not be not in the traditional sense. So basically you get a washcloth wet that has some no rinse soap on it. Uh huh. And basically what you do is you kind of just rub all the dirt around on your body, kind of makes you feel like you're getting clean, makes you feel a little bit better about yourself.


Old fashioned horse bath. Hey, I didn't say it.


No, I said, but you laughed. So that makes you guilty of something. How do you watch TV while you're up there?


Yeah, you can watch live TV. You can't change the channel. The ground has to change the channel for you. I don't know if it's still that way. Hopefully the technology has improved. It's not really good quality video. I would generally have the news on during the day in the background, just kind of like I do in my house generally. Right. But they'll send up movies and TV shows that are much higher quality, like HD quality stuff.


Aren't you like a nine iron away from the actual direct TV satellite? Because you shouldn't you be able to get like the best DirecTV signal of all time?


Yeah, you're moving pretty fast, though. You're a little closer, clearly. But, you know, DirecTV is not designed for vehicle that's going seventeen thousand miles an hour or so. Right. You'd have to have some pretty good tracking of that satellite somehow.


I'm about to buy a motorhome that has a tracking device, so maybe we can get that at the ISPs that on steroids now.


OK, so onto that. So the thing is going seventeen thousand five hundred miles an hour or something like that, and the earth is roughly, what, twenty four thousand miles around.


Yeah. Twenty five. I think you're going around it, you're doing a full lap of it.


What, in like seventy five minutes or something. Ninety, ninety minutes. Oh right. Because you're then a bit outside of that. Twenty five. I get it. I know geometry. OK, so you're probably making like a thirty thousand mile lap or something.


Seventeen thousand five hundred miles an hour. Yeah.


Times 90 minute time's divided by twenty five thousand miles. I'm sixty is ninety minutes.


I guess the point is I'm making is the Earth's whipping by.




Like you're seeing in Africa and then you're seeing India and then you see in Asia. It's moving. Right. It's I have to imagine it's pretty stimulating about five miles a second.


So it's not the kind of sensation of speed you would get, like on a jet ski or on a motorcycle going a hundred miles an hour.


Right. But. Conceptually, it's pretty significant sense of speed in that you're flying from one side of the continental United States to the other in about 15 minutes, so you feel like you're going fast because of that? I think the fastest I've ever felt was not in the space shuttle or the space station. It's not in you know, it off the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, which is impressive. And you accelerate pretty fast. It was the one time I got a ride in the back seat of an Indy car and went two hundred miles an hour.


I've been on that ride, too.


Yeah, that's pretty fast. I thought you were going to say, because I also was lucky enough when I worked for GM to be a passenger in a NASCAR. And when you get on that bank, because the asphalt is only like 14 inches out the passenger side window and then so much, your peripheral vision is taken up by that thing.


That's the fastest I've ever felt like I was going.


Yeah. So even though I've gone seventeen thousand five hundred miles an hour, the fastest I've ever felt was two hundred miles an hour in that in that Indy car.


Yeah, it's all relative. When you're in the space station, in your weightless, are you at zero gravity or is there some percentage of point to atme?


It's microgravity. So it's 10 to the minus, whatever, six, 90 minutes.


OK, whatever math because of that, when you are weightless, my first question is, do you immediately just feel the most relaxed your body's ever felt? No.


You feel like all the blood is rushing to your head, and that's kind of an uncomfortable feeling at first and it takes a while to get used to.


Is that because your body is designed to be pushing blood up to fight gravity and then without gravity, it's just putting too much up there?


Yeah, your cardiovascular system is designed to, you know, squeeze and push blood up to your vital organs and to our brain away from the force of gravity.


So when you get up to space, it's still doing that because it hasn't figured out that I don't need to work as hard. Yeah, we also have more blood and fluid in our bodies than we need once we get into space because it's now easier to move around. So, yeah, that big headed astronaut is not just about like ego and it's about like your head is actually swollen. Oh, my goodness.


So is it painful? Do you feel like you have a mild headache the whole time? It's like standing on your head. Oh, God.


Because you know what's so funny is my question was designed to be the opposite, which is I thought potentially an exciting aspect is that when you were upside down, you wouldn't get that rush of blood. Your head like you normally get upside down. But in fact, it's the opposite and it's all the time.


Yeah, well, you know, it gets better over time. Like your body gets adapted, you purge a lot of that excess fluid. But even after being on the space station for three hundred and forty days at one time, my head still felt a little bit swollen and still had, you know, excess fluid in it. So you never actually feel quite normal. Oh, my gosh.


So you better tell the people buying a ticket about this because I think they might want to refund when they get there. Because of my fantasy was I was going to feel like I was in the ultimate lazy boy the whole time. Now it's fun.


You know, the floating sponge, it's hard to do stuff at first. It takes a while to get used to it. You know, once we do start flying more people into space for tourism, I think people need to realize is saying an experience for everybody, especially living there for a long period of time. And it is it's an extreme adventure. Some people love it, but other people will probably not like it very much because of, you know, the fluid shift.


The carbon dioxide can be high on. The space station is uncomfortable. Your digestive system doesn't work all that great in the absence of gravity because, you know, we just evolved to have gravity helping our digestion, let's say pulling the food through your intestines, down to your butthole.


That's not happening. That force.


Yeah, it's a vector, I think, for our digestion to know which way to move things.


So what's the remedy for that? When you're on the space station, you just poop once a month or something.


The Russians have some really great colloquial expressions and they have some space ones, too. And that's the one about like if you can't go to the bathroom in space, just eat more food, OK?


So eventually it's going to come out of one end, I guess, is the method. It's such a Russian way to look at things. Get a bigger hammer.


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Now, you said this on Cobbora, you talked about how it fucks with your sleep. Well, there are certain things about sleeping in space that you might think makes it more comfortable. And it is true, like I have issues with my shoulders that when I sleep, they bother me because I have like a torn rotator cuffs and things like that. But in space, that's not going to be an issue because you're just kind of floating this in your arms or just floating out in front of you.


So that's not an issue. But then, you know, you'll have back pain as an example, because now your spine, in the absence of gravity is elongated. You know, there's issues of the environment. The like I said, the carbon dioxide might be high, it could be loud, it could be warm, it could be cold. You don't maybe not have as much control over the temperatures. I remember my first spaceflight. It was only seven days.


But I get up to space. I'm like, OK, I'm going to try to just sleep with no assistance at all. Meaning I was going to get my sleeping bag and just kind of float there.


And then after every day I was kind of adding something to it.


I'm putting an eye mask and ear plugs in my head.


Seems like at least for my first flight, it had two neutral positions and it felt like it had to be in one of these two. And one of those positions was like right here. And the other one was like also right here. And they were like a couple of millimeters apart. And I felt like I would have to after a while, my head wouldn't be comfortable. I have to move it a little bit back. So eventually my head's strapped to a pillow.


Oh, wow.


So I have my knees kind of strapped up towards my chest a little bit. Yeah. And then you take an Ambien eventually you say this goes bad.


I mean, I would probably opt for some medical assistance and especially on the Hubble mission, when you're much higher, you see cosmic rays with your eyes closed, hitting your eyeball, which is kind of distracting when you realize, hey, not only that, cosmic rays just hit my eyeball. It actually went completely through my brain.


Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there any long term studies on astronauts? Do they have a higher rate of brain cancer or anything?


I don't know a brain cancer, but I think a few years ago when I was still at NASA, we tripped over the point of statistical significance for cancers in that population of people. I don't know how much, but yeah, so it is a risk.


There's not any eyewear you could put on that would block out those rays or that would intercept those maybe led.


I don't know. I don't know. The physics around protecting against cosmic rays I think are pretty hard to protect against aluminum foil.


Wouldn't do it. Beer goggles maybe. I don't know.


OK, buckle up for this one. Have people made love up there? And that might be misleading. Maybe it is fucking.


But have people had of course, up there as far as I know, no. Is it technically possible? Yes, absolutely. Uh huh. Is it likely to happen someday? I think so.


We are all humans after all.


But no, I don't have any evidence that that is actually happened.


Well, I can tell you when I fantasize about your role, first stop in my fantasy is looking out the window at Earth for a couple hours and then it's turning and getting straight to some zero gravity fucking if I'm just being that honest, it seems like the two most appealing aspects of potentially going up there are zero gravity, sex and looking at I would be better about it in zero gravity.


You could just spin the person around. You could just, you know, everything. The sky's the limit. And guess what?


You're beyond the limit of the sky. It seems kind of hard like they might float away from me. Like you'd have to really. It'd be a little game of cat and mouse. Oh, wow. I think it'd be pretty, pretty fun.


Sorry, Scott. OK, so you have and you don't know that anyone has. But you know, also there's probably rumors I would imagine there's always rumors.


Yeah. I'm not a rumor guy. I didn't share them with you.


OK, now I remember a long, long time ago one of the first Russian guys and maybe it was me. I don't know, maybe I'm conflating some things. But I had read that, yeah, his spine had been compacted to the point where he was like six inches taller when he landed. Is that possible? Were you taller when you landed?


I stretched an inch and a half while I was in space. And as soon as I got back down, I compressed back down to my normal six foot five.


I write four percent body fat frame.


So you gain an inch and a half in how quickly after you land. Well, this is another thing I think people might not know is that your muscles are solely there to pretty much battle gravity. So in the absence of them, do you have to exercise a tremendous amount while you're up there just to not deteriorate?


Yeah, if he did no exercise, you would lose about one percent of your bone mass every month and, you know, probably an equivalent amount of muscle mass as. Well, so, yeah, we exercise a lot to prevent that six days a week, seven days a week for some people if they can do that much. Also, your heart gets deconditioned, too, because you know, it doesn't have to work as hard anymore. So you also lose muscle mass in your heart.


Yeah, but the exercise equipment is good. And, you know, we figured out a good way to mitigate those risks, but it is a risk. Bowflex similar. Well, much better, actually.


No offense to Bowflex, but the thing we have is like very well designed hardware that uses evacuated cylinders to create resistance. So actually feels like you're lifting real weight. If I could, I would have one of these things in my house. But, you know, it's a NASA thing, probably caused a gazillion dollars.


It'll trickle down, though, into our workout. Technology is seemingly every NASA invention. Does is drinking permitted in the space station? Alcohol.


I mean, now it's against the rules. OK, that's like an internationally agreed upon. No drinking up there. The rules are there is no drinking. OK, all right.


So the rules are no drinking, which is not to say the drinking hasn't happened. I once watched a documentary about these MiG pilots and they were pounding shots.


I could just prior to takeoff. I was really amazed by it. I can't remember what documentary it was. But of course, I immediately wondered if there was some vodka up there at the space station. But no vodka, no vodka. OK, before we applaud all the many aspects of the partnership with Russia, I want to know this will feed into what you ultimately are doing, I believe with lessons from a life in space, which is how do you compartmentalize fear and are you even aware that you're compartmentalizing?


My case would be I can't imagine the first time you blasted off in a Russian rocket. You've just left Star City.


You see how most of the mechanical things are working in that area. It's probably not super confidence inducing. And then now you hop into this enormous rocket and you just pray, oh, I hope they built this.


Like Toyota builds their cars, I hope is the one thing they decided to build perfectly. Are you not afraid that first time you're on the Russian rocket?


Well, I would go back to just the first time you launch into space, especially on the space shuttle. I mean, the space shuttle is the most complicated thing ever built, complicated vehicle, aerospace vehicle. And, you know, the amount of energy involved to get a space shuttle that weighs over two hundred thousand pounds with the external tank and all the fuel and the solid rocket motors, it's five million pounds. It takes seven million pounds of thrust.


Oh, it's just, you know, operating at extremes of temperatures and pressures and the fact that you're not on the top of it, you know you're on the side of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On all of that fuel. So watching on the shuttle, especially the first time, I was more apprehensive and nervous about it than the first time launching on the Russian Soyuz, because the Soyuz doesn't have the solid rocket motors, those solids, you turn them on and that's it.


You can't turn them off. You can't control the thrust that comes out of them.


It's like getting on pregnant. Yeah, there's nothing you can do to stop it.


Right. And in the case of the Soyuz, it's liquid engines and you're on the top and there's an emergency escape system.


So you felt a little more safe, a little more comfortable, actually, not physically comfortable because it's painful in the position you sit in and the fact that you can't really move hardly at all, then you're kind of like locked into this one position for many, many hours. But from the perspective of, like, being scared or nervous or worrying that something's going to happen, the shuttle is more risky in that regard.


OK, so when that's happening, are you in the mode of like when you're a kid and you jump off a tall bridge into water, do you just go like, yeah, I'm terrified, but I already know I'm going to do this, and now I'm just going to put that in a little vault in my head and not think about it. What's your strategy to navigate that stressful situation?


You know, I think fear is a natural emotion to have. I think it can be helpful. It allows you to focus on the stuff that's important. In the case of me flying in space on the space shuttle, especially the first time, you know, you think this is quite possibly the last thing I ever do in my life, meaning I could die. Yeah. And it could blow up and that's it. But eventually, you know, you come to terms with I'm actually going to do this and then you realize, is it helpful to be scared about it?


Probably not. And then when you get into the rocket, you're more concerned or more scared that you're going to mess something up, then the rocket is going to blow up and it allows you to kind of compartmentalize away that fear. Yeah.


Getting focused on the task at hand. What actually are you doing as the pilot of that thing? Are you I mean, there's no steering involved or anything, is there, on the shuttle launch?


If everything goes normally for that eight and a half minutes, you throw one switch and you don't touch the. Roles, but you can in an emergency actually fly the space shuttle with the control stick after about 90 seconds. So still, when you're on the solid rocket motors, you fly it from one to the ground to land it. But what you're primarily doing is monitoring the systems and being prepared for what happens if the engines fail at this time. What options do you have to abort?


Where can you go land? What do you need to do? And the systems were so complicated and interrelated that it's really the most complex puzzle, basically, that you're working continuously, you know, in your mind with your crew members always trying to think ahead. And what's the next worst thing that can happen, your worst failure? How does that affect these other systems? So even though you're only throwing one switch, you're really busy.


Yeah. Now, once you're up there on the space station, how much free time do you have during the day?


You generally in the evenings, I would have, you know, a couple of hours between like nine and 11 o'clock when I would generally go to sleep to do some personal things, to get on the phone, to do email, to maybe watch a TV show or something or. Yeah, on the weekends. One day is really a workday. And then, you know, usually at least at least a half a day off on the weekends, sometimes a full day.


But, you know, your time up there is very valuable. So it's not like you would want a lot of time off anyway.


Yeah. How often do people visit? It varies. So I've been up there for one period of time with two Russian guys for six weeks, me and just Gennady Padalka and Misha Kornienko.


Generally speaking, there's six people up there and they swap out in groups of three. So every two months or four months or so, you might be up there with the same group of people for about three or four months.


Is it so exciting when someone else comes? I would imagine, like even the least boring person arriving after three months of no visits.


Yeah. When a space shuttle crew comes up there or the new Soyuz comes up, I had a Soyuz come up. That was a couple of guys that were only going to be there for a week. But it's kind of like when your relatives visit during a holiday, you're, like, excited to see them. Yeah, yeah. I know. You're also excited to see them leave. Yeah.


I guess it gets pretty cramped and pretty quickly, I'd imagine, especially when they're only going to be in space for a short period of time because it really takes about a month to get used to living in space. You know, you're not bouncing off the walls or kicking stuff or losing stuff or getting your space legs underneath. It takes a while.


Yeah, well, I have a question about that. I watched you float through the space station. I recognize how many things you could bump into, how many switches you could bump and do, cords you could get entangled in. And I was wondering, I guess you kind of just said the opposite. I was wondering if, as you grew accustomed to being in there and things become routine, if it gets a little more dangerous because you kind of drop your guard a bit, is that an issue?


No, I would say you're always getting better. I mean, the risk in the beginning, not only are you at risk of breaking something, but you're at risk of hurting yourself, like bumping your head into something if you're going too fast and out of control. So, yeah, I would say the longer you're there, the more safe and controlled you are.


Yeah. Now, when you're going to bed, you had to have nights where you would acknowledge how incredibly vulnerable you are. And did you ever have to fight off like panic setting in now?


I've never really had feelings of panic. You certainly recognize when you're in space, you're at risk. You're always at risk of there being a fire, a depressurization. The space station uses some high pressure ammonia to cool the systems. Generally, it's on the outside, but there is risk that it could get inside. It could be very deadly very quickly. Orbital debris is an issue. So, yeah, you recognize you're at risk, but you do everything you can to mitigate that risk and prepare for it.


And, you know, like launching on the shuttle and knowing that they could blow up, you come to terms with it. So it's not something I would really think about. Right. OK, now, when you do a spacewalk girl outside and you're in a vacuum and Earth is two hundred fifty miles below and you're attached by this little very thin tether, you realize you're in kind of a precarious position. Great.


Because I wanted to ask, where is the most dangerous duty that you had to perform routinely on that? Is it the spacewalks?


Yeah, the spacewalks or launch landing and the spacewalk. I would say the launch and the landing are the most risky, but spacewalks are pretty risky. Fortunately and surprisingly, you know, we've done so many now on the space station and no one's really ever been seriously injured. It's kind of shocking, actually, once you overcome the.


Uniqueness of it in the fear, is it exhilarating to be out there? Yeah, it's impressive to be on the outside of a spacecraft flying at those speeds in a vacuum and seeing Earth below you. And you're in this really what is amounts to a small, tiny space ship itself. The spacesuit. Yeah. Life support systems and the cooling systems and the the protection. It provides a very complicated suit. You recognize it's no joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


OK, other quick questions. Everyone wants to know what it's like to look at Earth, but I'm curious, what is the view like looking out at space? Is it different than a super clear night?


Yeah, it's a good question. So if the sun is up, so if you're on the daylight side of the earth, you really can't see anything. So the sky is not like pitch black. It's more like a dark ish grey. The sun is really, really bright and you can't really see much of anything. Sometimes you can see the moon just like you see the moon on earth when the sun's up sometimes. Yeah, but when you're on the opposite side of the earth, if you turn the lights down, if the moon is not in the wrong place and it's really dark and if the Milky Way galaxy has risen, so it's, you know, in the part of the sky that you can see, it is absolutely spectacular.


You could see the Milky Way, kind of like how you might see it in pictures from the Hubble Space Telescope. You can kind of see that with your own eye.


Oh, wow. You know what people don't realize? You know, it's really a privilege to be able to fly in Earth's orbit because the Earth blocks out the sun someday when we have people that are going to Mars and it's going to take two hundred and sixty days to get there, you're going to look out the window. You're not going to see anything. Yeah, because you're not going to see Earth.


It'll be a tiny dot. You're not going to see Mars. Then your view of the sky is just going to be washed out because you're in perpetual sunlight.


Yeah. Wow. There's so many bizarre thoughts about going to Mars like that. Kevin Pollack, it's taken me an hour, but that's who you remind me of. Kevin Pollak Have you ever heard that? No similar voice heard Phil Collins.


Oh, well, visually.


And Mark Kelly, that was a good one. I walked right into that one. All the satellites, are they all orbiting in the same direction?


You don't ever see countering satellites, do you? Are they all going in the same direction now?


There are satellites that are in retrograde orbits, meaning like opposite where? Like the spin of the Earth. I don't know how many. You know, we have satellites that are in polar orbit. So when we're kind of at a fifty one point six degree angle to the equator. Yeah, in the space station's orbit, there are ones that are just going pure north and south. But you don't really see a whole lot of satellites when you're in space, even though there's a lot of stuff up there.


Oh, you don't.


That was imagining like the combined thirty five thousand miles an hour of a whip by. And that could be exciting.


Yeah, that'd be hard to see. That's twenty times faster than a bullet from a rifle.


Yeah. OK, last one of these questions. Did you see anything while you were up there that defied explanation?


I always wanted to, yeah. I always hoped, like, I would open the window and there'd be some, like, flying saucer hovering next to us, but never happened.


Sometimes you would see something and you'd be like that. Light is not behaving like I think it should if it was a satellite or a planet, looked like it would have some motion, that's not in its normal trajectory. But then you realize as soon as you think how that's that's really weird. What is that then? You realize it's just something that's passing behind the lensing of the atmosphere, OK, and making it look like it's moving. So those things are always explainable.


Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.


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OK, now lessons from a life in space, which is an audio course and knowable, is it a site where people can go and learn about different peculiar topics?


It's a new app and it's for audio courses, kind of like Spotify is, but it's for learning.


So, you know, different people have their own courses, some new ones. Alexis Ohanian, Chris Paul, mine, of course, which can be found at knowable dot f y I forward slash Scott. All right.


Knowable dot I forward slash Scott. And, you know, my course is about things I learned throughout my career that hopefully might help people. I think there are probably lessons learned that will help people, hopefully also to be a little entertaining.


Well, right now, I mean, a couple of things that immediately come to mind is we've all been in some level of quarantine for the last 10 months. Right. And people are really struggling with that. I know I am. And everyone I know is. So, you know, the challenges of a prolonged period of solitude and isolation is something that you know a tremendous amount about. Are you almost laughing at people that are unraveling here and in quarantine, like get over yourself?


No, I get it. It's hard. My daughter said to me recently. Twenty six term recently turned twenty six.


She's complaining because I have absolutely no social life.


I said, Samantha, neither does every other person on the planet. This is a worldwide pandemic. All of our social lives are gone. She goes, OK, well, that makes me feel a lot better.


Thank you.


As long as I'm not missing out on some big social promo, it's not like there's another planet you can go to without the pandemic.


But yeah, did you have an actual structured approach to dealing with your feelings of isolation and loneliness? Did you have a routine or a schedule? Yes.


So, you know, I flew a flight that was six months long. And towards the end of it, like the last couple of months, I felt like the walls were closing in a little bit and the anxiety is building. And then I had the opportunity to fly in space for a year or nearly a year. And I wasn't that interested at first. But eventually I realized, you know, I want to fly in space again. I want it to be different.


I want it to be challenging. And what could be more challenging than the hardest thing about being in space for a long time, which is being in space for a long time. Yeah. Where you have very little control over your daily routine, your schedule, very little freedom of choice, being with the same people a lot, even though the people I've flown in space with are all great, not being able to go outside. No nature, no sun, no rain, no wind.


All those challenges working in the same place that you're living. And, you know, a lot of those things are things that people are experiencing right now.


But I put a lot of thought into it prior to me flying. And that was things like, first of all, recognizing that this was my job, it was my mission to be there for a long time.


And I think now people can kind of look at this pandemic and think, you know, this is our collective mission, the first time in our lives that we've all been engaged on one singular thing ever in our lifetimes is this pandemic.


And I think people should recognize that this is our job, this is our mission to do this the right way to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. So I think having that perspective is important. I think it's important to pace ourselves. I think it's important to recognize that this will be over someday. Not sure when, but it will be over someday. And when it is, you know, do you want to look back on this experience in a positive way with pride of how you performed?


Like I said, are you a part of the solution or part of the problem? And then, you know, what I did was I tried to follow a schedule very closely. It's kind of easy to do when someone's making your schedule on the space station, but also, you know, schedule time for rest, for hobbies, for connecting with people in various ways, getting time for yourself, which I think is even though we're in a pandemic, I think a lot of people probably struggle with that, that they're.


Oh, yeah. Know everyone's living situation is different, but there are things that I think we can do that make this easier and get to the end. My goal when I was in space was to get to the end of the mission with as much energy and enthusiasm as I had in the beginning. And I think I was pretty successful at that for my year long flight. I wasn't as successful when I was in space for only six months, and it's because I really didn't have a plan and how to cope and deal with it and then also ask for help.


You know, people need to realize there's nothing wrong with asking for help. If you're having, you know, issues and you're struggling with this at NASA, they don't even give us a choice. We have to talk to psychiatrists and psychologists every two weeks, whether we like it or not, when we're in space. And that could be very helpful.


And, oh, I think that's fantastic. Yeah, the game plan is so important.


I think I'm struck when you're talking about this, that there is almost physically no difference between what you did and being in prison for a year other than the story you're able to tell yourself, which is, well, I'm here with purpose.


And when you're in prison, it's very hard to find purpose. But that's the only difference. You guys are basically living the same lives, but you have different stories in your head and that's the difference.


I think there are some parallels. I've actually thought about that. The big difference is as you're there by choice and you're serving a purpose larger than yourselves are in prison, probably not choosing to be there. And your purpose is just either rehabilitation or punishment. So you might not feel as good about the purpose. But I've actually thought, you know, the challenge of reintegrating yourself back into life after being in space for a year is not insignificant. It exists and it's probably similar to how people feel when they get out of prison, particularly with regards to the schedule.


Like one of the challenges of getting used to living in space for a long time is following this very tightly controlled schedule. It's also a similar challenge when you get home is then no longer having that. Yeah, and not having someone telling you what to do all the time. And I think people that are getting out of prison probably feel the same way.


Now, another thing you cover in lessons from a life in space is how essential truth and science are. The one thing that I hope people understand about us going to space is this isn't something that you can trial and error or actually research and develop in a traditional way.


When we sent a rocket there, these were all the theories of how things would operate in space, how they would move, how we could turn things around.


These were all theories that were learned from here that we figured out from here. And by God, we did it. We understood what it would take to go there and return without being able to experiment. Really, other than, you know, there's obviously some controlled experiments here on Earth. But in general, that whole thing succeeds on the power of our scientific research and understanding, doesn't it, more than any other thing we've ever done?


Maybe, you know, if it wasn't for science, we wouldn't exist. And, you know, it's why we live in this world we live in today. It's why the human species has been able to evolve to the point we're at now.


And, you know, everything we have really, I think is due to science. And I don't know how we've gotten to the point where now people think science is political or it's subject to some kind of a debate. It's opinion and not fact. I mean, science always evolves, but it's based on processes and, you know, objective observation, evidence, experimentation, peer review. And, you know, I see people all the time now being interviewed about things or people with their opinion.


They're like, oh, yeah, I don't believe that. Yes. Why don't you believe it?


I don't know. I just don't. Yeah. Like what happened to us where stuff that used to be revered and considered facts and knowledge and is now by a certain demographic look upon with disdain and skepticism. And it's dangerous.


Yeah, it's very unfortunate. It's gotten coupled to this notion of elitism or some kind of condescending nature to it when it doesn't have any agenda other than discovering the truth. And my main pet peeve with it is that the ala carte nature of people believing in science or not, when they get in their car and they turn the key, well, there certainly believe in science in that moment or they want to plan their day knowing they're going to drive their car and then then they get on their iPhone, have to tweet that they don't believe in science, I think.


Well, OK, well, you believe in that part of science. And it's kind of the la carte approach that I find frustrating.


Yeah, I've never heard it put that way, but that's a very good point. I mean, people choose to believe the parts that they want to believe for some political reason or cultural reason or whatever. I don't even get it. And some of it's like people do it as a joke, like the even mentioned their names because I don't want to encourage them. But like, you know, the flat earth or Yasuni make believe the earth is flat or whatever.


But if you're willing to believe the earth is flat or you don't encourage other people to believe the earth is flat, you'll believe anything.


I'd argue you got to go now all the way back to when that was an agreed upon premise. So no more electricity for you, no indoor plumbing. You can't just decide. I'm going to have a 13th century understanding of the planet in a twenty first century understanding of how to get an Uber somewhere. You got to be. You're lying. Yeah, that's a good point, I'm going to use that a please do it yourself. I'm confronted by a flat earth.


Now, could you tell us what you've learned about failure? Well, I think failure is something that is important in life. Like if you never fail, I think you're not trying hard enough. Your goals are not high enough.


Yeah, I have not always been the best at anything when I started, but I've always gotten good and I've always challenged myself and I've always taken risks knowing that, hey, it's quite possible I may not be able to do this, but being willing to take that risk and see what you're capable of achieving is what makes a lot of people very successful in their lives.


Is that kind of risk taking and failure is a big part of it. Not only does it allow you to understanding that we sometimes fail, allow you to set lofty goals, but also is a learning point, too. And, you know, just because you failed at something doesn't mean you can't pick yourself up, dust yourself off and and try again.


Have you had a failure that you can think of that ended up leading to your greatest success?


One that always comes to mind is just trying to land on an aircraft carrier with the 14 Tomcat the first time and failing miserably with my first arrested landing attempt and the hook of the airplane hitting the back of the ship. Oh, boy. Basically almost crashing or being sent home and then given the opportunity to go fly like an airliner for the Navy, that maybe you're not cut out for this. And I actually thought, well, I might fail at that, too.


Who knows? But if I don't try, I'll never know whether I was actually capable of doing this. And just because you fail doesn't mean you can't be the best at something that you fail at. Initially, it's possible. I would have never guessed. I would have had the opportunity to fly in space after being such a failed student. Right?


Yeah. I can't imagine the stress of having to land that plane and get the hook on the cable. It has to be the most harrowing thing that's done in aviation over and over again.


Yeah, yeah. That airplane was a great plane for a lot of reasons. But one of them was not because it was easy to land aboard the ship. It was probably the most challenging airplane ever. And at night I would say about half the time it was just downright scary. Oh, I bet.


And again, it's one of these things. It's almost like a baby bird jumping out of its nest. There's no way to enjoy yourself closer to landing on the aircraft carrier. You just have to commit in fuck and try to land on it. There's no inching closer. Are going one mile an hour faster over the jump each time.


Yeah, there's no training version of the airplane that has a control stick in the back. Right. When you're doing it, you're the guy the first time or the girl the first time. And you know it's all in your hands. Success or failure is all completely up to you, especially when you're young doing that too. I think I'd have a much easier time with it now after all the experiences I've had of regulating your heart rate.


Yeah, that's twenty three years old.


Oh, man, it's so impressive. Do you fancy yourself a good car driver like. Like a racecar driver. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Are you skilled behind the wheel of an automobile. I can drive a stick. Oh okay.


That's good. I did the Richard Petty driving experience. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.


And Weyco that were, you know, in Orlando.


Oh OK. I'm timing OK. Because I think because I'm good behind the wheel of an automobile that I would be good to land a plane in an emergency armonica. Disagrees immensely. And you haven't helped my cause yet.


You're not saying that there's a lot of shared DNA between the two skill sets?


Well, maybe a little bit, but I think you would have to go fly an airplane to really see. Yeah, yeah.


Well, I'll wait for my first flight to when I have to land because there's something wrong with the pilot. I like a high pressure situation.


Well, Scott, you're an incredible human being.


I don't think I'd ever grow up to talk to somebody who spent over five hundred days in space. What a unique experience. And I really hope people check out lessons from a life in space which is available unknowable. So go to knowable FOIA forward, slash Scott and you can listen to lessons from a life in space and find out the many similarities between what he went through and what we're all kind of slogging through now. I think it's incredible timing for this.


So, Scott, thanks so much for talking to us. Do you ever want to unload that Russian space suit? Please get a hold of me. Make me an offer.


OK, before you put it on eBay, just reach out, OK? All right. All right. Well, all right. Take care, guys.


And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soul mate, Monika Padman. Hi, mommy. Hi, good morning. Morning time. Good morning, Aaron. Good morning, Dad and Mommy. Aaron's here for our fact check. Fact check.


Poppen Bubley, I just want to apologize on the air. I'm so sorry I'm late. I set my alarm. I moved it 15. I should have moved it 30. I was being too optimistic. And then there was a new remote control was purchased. The cable didn't work.


And I had a fix for the girls. And then it just I got to improve. I got to get better. I'm sorry.


I understand, ma'am. I do understand. But it's still offensive. It bothers me. I know.


I don't want I don't want it to bother me, but it does because I know it's not true. But I feel then like you don't think my time is as valuable.


I certainly do. And the whole right here, I was in a fit of anxiety and I for real. And then as this stupid coffee machine is taking forever, I'm building more and more anxiety. I'm really sorry. I really value your time.


I'm just kind of committing to too much in the morning. I should have just said let's meet at eleven forty five and given myself some nice big pad.


Yeah. Yeah I blew it. That's OK. We live and we learn.


Well this will be we're coming up on a New Year's Eve resolution time and I'm always looking to improve so that's a good one.


I'm going to do it. OK, I like that. Yeah, I'm going to be brutally pessimistic with my time estimates.


You know, give yourself extra buffer. A buffer is always good. And then, yeah, it might not be able to do some things in a day, and that's fine. And you will be a little less stressed.


Yes. My anxiety was building as well and thinking of Monica sitting.


Oh yeah. How are you on time management?


Arendse Pretty good. No complaints recently. Yeah, I'd say in the course of our lifetimes, like for work airmen's always early.


I was the one that was always five ten. Consistently late huh. Yeah.


I really dropped the ball parenting for a while with the pick ups and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.


Oh and but I've gotten really good at that so I guess I am pretty good recently.


That's good. You do not need to put it on in New Year's resolutions. No, no. My main thing when I go. Yeah. Your resolutions should be keep nailing it. Yeah.


I'll always nail your appointments. Who are we fact checking. Scott Kelly, the astronaut. Oh my God. I told Aaron so many of the things about this episode.


Mind blowing. Yeah. I don't want to be an astronaut anymore.


No. Right either. I have I've never had any desire to go to space, but now I have even less.


I've had a great, great desire to be weightless. I think as I'm tall and I have some injuries, the notion of just being your body's completely relaxed at all times.


It doesn't need to do anything.


Well, that's how you feel in your La-Z-Boy. Damn near. Yeah. And that's why I love it.


I love it so much. Yeah, I covered it up. I love it and I love it and covered it because I have it covered. Well you.


Do you want more. I do want more always. I want every chair I ever sit.


In truth I know we watch that lousy fight last night and the only thing that got me through was the lazy boy.


So what happened?


Oh, man, I don't want to be disparaging because I love Mike Tyson. I really think he's kind of a pillar of humility at this point. His outlook on life and why he suffered and why he was miserable. He he felt entitled and he had expectations and now he has no expectations and he embraces whatever anything will be. So I really like him.


Yeah, I like that a lot. But it was not it was not a fight. It was kind of like some dancing, I guess. Hugging, hugging Snoop Dog, who is a commentator.


Oh my. He had the best comment at all. He said, he said, oh, this looks like two of my uncles fighting at a barbecue.


Oh, God. If you've ever seen some uncles fight at a barbecue, this is a mess. Yeah. Yeah. Both guys are tough guys, but neither really is a tough guy, usually drunk. Oh, man. Like now barbecue.


That's funny. You know, I did a commercial with Snoop. I sure do. Yeah. Fast food, right? Yeah. Burger King. The King is a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. He's so great.


You know, if not for him the entire night would have been probably a bust. Totally. Yeah he, he did save it again. I don't want to talk disparagingly but let's just say there were some other musical offerings and they weren't our taste or whatever and they were long.


Well there was like between fights you'd watch six, seven songs from somebody I had never heard of again. No disrespect to anyone. I'm sure it was hard. There was no audience.


Oh, there's singing by themselves in a black box and it's they're feeling awkward now.


We're feeling it was kind of like watching bad stand up.


Oh, boy. Oh. No one knows, no one was no one was set up to win, that's for sure, like everyone. And then the commentator, he had such heavy lifting to do because I don't think it was on schedule. I was trying to fill the whole time and the sidekicks didn't have a lot to say. Nothing to say.


I mean, so it was, oh, we should have done it.


Honest to God, I said at one point I said, we put on a much better live show, this huge production.


Nothing was dragging.


No one had anything to say on any who. And then the fight was it just wasn't a fight. Like clearly Tyson could have knocked him out in one second. Oh, he could.


Yeah. You hold his power. Oh. Then why didn't.


Because it was an exhibition, I think to get that to get it like sanctioned by the WBA or one of these fight organizations, they had to call it an exhibition.


But I think all of us going into it thought, well, his nature and training will just take over.


Oh, sure. And he just won't be able to resist knocking.


Oh, I see. But he was able to follow the rules.


OK, I like that. I mean, I know I don't like it for the audience, but I like him. Yeah, well, I like it for Reuters Jersey.


I like the furniture because Roy came in dead asleep. They look they looked like they woke him up and shook them awake. Yeah.


And he was walking out to the ring like, oh, you know, so I couldn't wake up, you know, those mornings you can't wake up. He needed a fucking hot couple. That would have been the best part of him waking up. Mind you, you can hear everything because there's no audience, Monica, which is so weird.


Oh, boy. Oh, God. That reminds me of the first one. But just we're not claiming this, so don't sue us. But we think the ref farted in his pants right before he went, oh, and grab this.


I'm like, oh, man.


I mean, seconds before the bell rang and it was, oh, I must have just to yell like, oh, he's fucking our man in the ring.


And then I read this morning, I want to see what the kind of the consensus was about it, which which was really positive. I read like all these different sports publications and everyone like it. That's great. I'm for everyone involved.


It was well substantiated that Tyson had smoked a bunch of weed before the fight, which he said so that he can kind of numb his body.


So he was which is interesting because when he was in the corner sidenote, they kunie every round eight rounds.


They couldn't find a stool to give them.


When they found it, they couldn't get it in the ring anyways. So half the time he was just standing, waiting for a stool.


And then he had a very, very placid look on his face every time they'd cut to him in the corner.


And I thought, he is so placid. And now I realize he was he was pretty baked, I think. Yeah, yeah.


Wow. I love them. No, I know that's I like that story.


I mean, it was nice that he like playfully between rounds, would either like hug them or tap them, tap Roy Jones a little. And it was real playful and very unlike the Tyson we're used to seeing in the ring. Yeah.


So although that was nice, I think like when I watched boxing, the animal in me takes over and I straight up want to see violence. Yeah.


And yeah, I've always loved boxing and I've loved watching Tyson turn into that person. That is so scary. And it just we're hoping maybe he was saving it for the last round to just knock him out.


So give us our money. They just danced and hugged them went revolution. I get it.


I also want to acknowledge our privilege like we were saying afterwards, you know, if I had two hundred dollars in my bank account and I had spent fifty for that fight, I'd probably be pretty bummed today.


Yeah, that's. And I wasn't bombed, so I was just very grateful. Thankful it was. It gave me a giving. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. A lot of gratitude. Another ding, ding, ding. Speaking of can't get your stool out.


Oh my God. What a great Segway. A lot of people in this room, not me. Well, it's a problem.


It's the Shepherd House is full of people who can't get there. Yeah. We don't want to out any Hollywood starlet. She posted. Oh yeah. Yeah, she's pretty impacted. It seems so interesting.


Even the dog we took the dog on a hike and Frank made a dog. And it was it looked like a cork from a wine bottle.


Yeah, almost petrified. Oh yeah.


I felt bad for him. Yeah. And then about I don't know, twelve minutes later he had a little mustard came up.


Oh OK. So he got his out. Well yeah. I mean I just, I had a hunch there was a ton more of the mustard. I don't know what's going on with him but everyone was. Yeah, there was some binding agent in our food. Oh, it's like a Veronica Mars style mission. So she should she should run on Mars this time because some of us who had the Thanksgiving dinner are fine, you myself.


But I was trying to get more out, but I always could. So that's where I'm at.


I have motion or I have activity, but it's just unsatisfying. It's like I every time I'm like, that's probably 50 percent.


I don't have that, like, leap off the ball feeling like I'm light in area. Yeah.


Oh. Ding, ding, ding. Scott Kelly. Yeah. Can't poop in space exactly the way you were about to go in. It did it.


That was great. Mine is just an update about my body. Oh, I've switched antidepressants just since my Felicitas sometimes are on this ride with us. Oh yeah. I've switched because I was having some effects that I wasn't crazy about. Yeah. So as we should, I like the one I'm on now.


More, much more. Oh good. It's a process in which one is it now.


Zoloft. Oh so we're on the same one. Yeah. OK, great.


And I'm not as sleepy, I'm not asleep.


I mean I still want to sleep all day but I'm up like I wake up. Yeah. And then I just decide to go back to my bed or roll around a little. Right is a lifestyle choice.


What were you on before. I was on Lexapro. Which one are you on Lexapro. Oh I know a lot of people who like it.


Yeah. Halsy loves life. Yeah. Yeah.


I've been on it a little over a year and I would never even think to try another one just because everything seems to be working.


Yeah, I'm going to admit it now in this context. But you know, one of my efforts to break my co-dependency with you is I wanted to ask you if you were still taking it about six days ago and then. Oh, yeah, I stop myself.


Yeah. But now I found out I just thought, like, oh, I hope he still takes that it.


I you know, the whole if it's not broken, don't try to fix the thing.


They always refill it and no one seems to ask. Yeah. I'm not seeing a psychiatrist anymore since covid but I haven't been depressed in a year. Oh that's great. And I assume along with other things, that has something to do with it.


Well, a lot of different behavioral changes and maybe some chemical changes. Yeah. Oh man. I'm so I guess I'm just so grateful for you.


I love you. I love you more. So happy to hear you have been depressed in a year. Yeah.


OK, I'm going to start my facts. So you said that nobody saw Zathura sixty five point one million worldwide.


You U.S. know, USD box office. It says it right here.


It says sixty five million. Yes, too. I don't think that's right. Well, look, I'm sorry.


I thought it did worse than that. It says USD US dollars. Yeah.


So that could be worldwide. No. Oh really. Yeah. I don't think here it it didn't make us. I don't even think I mean as much as people thought a panel here.


So U.S. dollars is still world wide. Well it could be either it could just. Oh U.S. domestic. I let me look it up one more time. I'm so sorry. This is the one issue that Monica and I can never agree on.


This is the one issue. OK, are you what it did at the box office? That's what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah.


It's so funny because, you know, my personal experience with that movie was I was in without a paddle and it made like fifty nine million bucks. And then the next movie I was in that came out was a thorough and I went to the screening of the Thorough and I was like, this movie's incredible. Like without a paddle made 50 whatever million dollars this thing's going to make one fifty. Yeah. My expectations were really high.


I guess they should have been because it's a damn fucking movie. Oh my God. My kids. I've seen that ten times each.


I think it's probably the best movie I'm in. OK, you're right. OK, what was it. The third ended its theatrical run. Thirty four hours of thirty. Basically the international box office total was thirty five, bringing its total worldwide gross to sixty five. OK, ok. This shouldn't put USD by that. I have a grievance now.


Yeah. OK, I would have felt crazy because then I'd be like oh you said it did great. Yeah.


Yeah it made sixty five. I think that's what it cost. Sort of been like oh it broke even then. It's had a great life and DVD. I'm sure all your ancillary income and or the residual residuals amortized over time.


Yeah I felt bad for myself of course, but really the person I should have felt bad for is Fabro because he put his life into that movie that was two years of his life and it was fucking great.


Well, at the time. I know. And it was. Great, and because the movie was unpronounceable, that's my big takeaway, you know, while we were Mark, while we while they were marketing that movie, one of the things they discovered was people are really having a hard time with this man.


And so I think they did an episode of like Celebrity Apprentice really, or The Apprentice, where people had to come up with an ad campaign to help people pronounce it.


And even on the show, none of them could pronounce this back for that. Hard to say. Also, it's weird because isn't it kind of like Jumanji?


It is Chris Van Allsburg book, just like Jumanji and Jumanji is also a strange name, not quite as fun to say. Jumanji. I love Jumanji.


Yeah, I watched you for the first time the other day with the kids. It's phenomenal for the first time about Bob Williams.


I love it in a holds up, huh? Yeah, it really does. Oh, God. Really does.


It's not like I've never not thought Robin Williams was brilliant, but just so many movies you revisit now you realize, oh, there's no movie without him. You have someone else in the movie.


It's not even a fucking movie like Mrs. Doubtfire.


Oh, I know the premise guy dresses like, you know. Yeah. Thanks so much. Heart to everything. And Aladdin. Yeah, Latin.


90 percent of that is clearly improved. Yeah. OK, I was so tragic. Yeah. Really makes me sad. Oh me too. Yeah. Ding ding ding. Depression.


Oh OK. So you said that not a lot of people have graced the cover of Time magazine because Scott Kelly did. So I started to count and I couldn't.


And I guess well, I don't know the answer because I started to do they do an issue every month.


So 12 a year. It's been around for one hundred years. So 120 people.


I'm sorry. Twelve hundred people. Yeah. Too fast, man. Oh, my gosh. Faster, faster. My.


OK, so it started in nineteen twenty three the first year had forty four people.


Oh. Must have been like multiple episodes a month.


Well the second year at fifty two then fifty three then fifty two. Then the weekly I was counting and so I had to stop because I was only at nineteen is twenty seven.


It's thousands of it used to be weekly maybe. Is it still weekly. Yeah I think time is weekly. Oh it is.


We got two times twelve hundred by fifty to five thousand two hundred plus two is another thousand six thousand three hundred.


But sometimes there's two people on one cover and recently they've you know had covers without people, you know, there was like a corona one, there was the earth and like they have repeats. OK, so we'll never know the answer. I mean we could count, but I'm never going to count.


If you had to guess who who had been on the cover the most times, who would you guess?


Unfortunately, I believe it's Trump.


Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, I thought you say Hitler. That was no famously Person of the Year.


I'm one of these publications, I think. Regrettably so. Let me should I look at something you can answer?


Yeah. Let's see. OK, this is former President Richard Nixon has been among the most frequently featured on the front page of time, having appeared at fifty five.


Oh, my God. Wow. Wow. Week. Oh, see, you're saying among because they didn't want to count either.


I love how much your hand your nail in the G in among among.


They're saying among. Yeah. Oh long ago.


Oh oh my goodness.


Among other padman. Well anyway but I don't know when this was accumulated because I do think Trump is, he's been on it a lot, has been a lot more over there. Let me see.


I want to just ask was Hitler.


Times. Man of the Year Hitler named Time magazine's Man of the Year, and on this day in 1930, Adolf Hitler was awarded Man of the Year by Time magazine.


Yeah. That makes sense there, probably. Can you imagine how embarrassed you know, it's not saying they're the best. It's not exactly. Well, they got that right then. Yeah, OK. All right. I think that's why I think Trump is probably also want it for the same reason.


Do you want to hear the five of the most controversial choices of time? Yes. All right.


So Trump. Yeah. Adolf Hitler. He's number one, as you would expect. Sure. Joseph Stalin. That's a rough.




He also certainly impactful Nikita Khrushchev. Dick Nixon, Tricky Dick. Oh, the Ayatollah Khamenei.


The Ayatollah as a whole set of rap lyrics.


Oh, also, this is obvious, but many, many royals have been on top.


Oh yeah. I asked Monica last night if she wished to be a royal. Yes.


I said I can't pull off the hat, so. No, and that's one of the main perks. And then I said, don't just don't have a driver. And then we thought you could really be a princess of the people if you drove yourself, especially in your Toyota Prius.


I know. Oh, I've never been happier that I had a Prius yesterday. I got a Christmas tree and I went to Home Depot and they brought it out and they said, do you have any cloth or anything to put it on top? And I was like, No, but who cares?


Are you using, like, a pickup? Yeah, like, I don't have to worry about it. I was so happy I didn't have a white Mercedes.


Yeah, well, when I buy you that white Mercedes, you probably keep the Prius around just for all your Home Depot runs the tiny hardware store HDR.


Oh, OK.


Yeah. And you can be like pop the hatchback and just fill it with sod.


Yeah, that's a great idea. I was so happy. Unfortunately it's a weak car so. Well I shouldn't say that not to the toilet, but this is what I mean. They strapped the tree on and they use string obviously. Yeah.


And my daughters were upset. They could feel the strain and it kept saying the doors weren't close, OK. And so it, it made that horrible noise the whole ride home. Ding, ding, ding.


It was a bad ding, ding, ding all the way home. This reminds me of one of Britney's most trashy things we ever did, which was we got just bomb drunk leading up to the holidays and we decided we should we should go liberate one of the Christmas trees from in front of vans.


And so we went up there and we took her Toyota Corolla and we just stuck the Christmas tree in a panic.


Wait, you you stole it while I'm going there also, we we shoved it in the back seat. My knee was like 2:00 in the morning. It is two blocks away. It's it's deplorable. We had been drinking and we were driving. But I'm just telling you the truth. Yes. Thank you. The tree would not fit in the back. So the door was wide open with the tree hanging outside. And we're trying to not get pulled over because we're obviously drinking.


And mind you, it's only a couple blocks away. But anyways, we we get home, we race into the back of the parking thing, and then we drag it in the house and we wake up, both of us, you know, we barely remember any of it. And we wake up and there's a Christmas tree laying on its side in the living room. And then we you open the door in the hall. There's just needles all the way down to the car and the barrier doors still open.


Oh, wow.


Had anyone, Xena's would've been the easiest to bust us. Wow. Oh, wow.


Oh, boy. Okay. All right, everybody, what a life you've lived.


Didn't have to be a detective to solve it. Oh, so you don't have to be on Mars. OK, let's see.


OK, how many miles around is the earth. Hmm. Oh, I'm not good at physics.


So an IRA, I had to look this up on multiple sites because I didn't like the answer. Just over twenty four thousand nine hundred and one miles. Right.


That does not seem right. How come this is not enough or not enough? Do you know how I remember it?




Because the earth is spinning at about a thousand miles an hour and so there's twenty four hours and. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.


But there's a tiny bit more than twenty four hours in a day. Well yeah.


That's why we have a leap here and why it's a little over twenty four. Uh huh. Mm.


I still don't think it's a big enough number.


OK, you know, what to do is tell you about that, the ruler out there, because the radius is three thousand nine hundred and fifty eight miles, that does not seem right.


Well, the radius is just half of the way. I know. OK, but but three thousand miles is from here to Georgia.


Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't see, none of this makes sense to my brain that that is the same amount, but that's just looking at the side now.


But still, it should be much, much, much more than what we look like.


What do you want it to be? One hundred thousand miles around a million. Oh, my God. I mean, it's the earth is a substantial place.


Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Well, and we're 93 million miles from the sun, 93 million miles divided by four thousand two.


I can't even do that.


Math can faster math or do out of the twenty six point nine seven.


The space is definitely something that my brain has a big blind spot. Like when Eric teaches us about astronomy. I don't understand any of it. You don't? None. None of it.


Well, I'm glad that you have a little, to be honest, a little weakness. I'm fine with it.


I don't feel like I need to know more. Yeah, because it's a mystery, not a Ron Mars mystery like one I don't need to know the answer to.


I remember more from any class in college, from astronomy, and it wasn't even an interest of mine.


Yes, but learning how they figured all this out is to me so fascinating because they have one single thing to go on.


Their one clue is light. Yeah, I just incredible.


I know it's crazy. It's crazy. And they can figure out what the stars burning, how far away it is, whether it's going away from us, whether it's coming towards us. All that from looking at light. It's unbelievable. I'm impressed.


Hmm. Mm. Oh good job astronomers.


OK, can I, can I tell you because you said zero gravity and he did. Correct. I'm just going to elaborate a little bit. Microgravity is what it was like.


Point one atom or something. It doesn't say the exact amount. I tried to look OK. It's called zero gravity, but it's misleading because it's not zero gravity.


But it does cause you to flow. Mm hmm. And appear weightless. Hmm. Yeah.


That's why on the moon, when you see that footage, they do come back down to the moon, but they can just jump for 60, 70 feet. I don't know. I love it.


I want to dance around up there.


Oh, maybe like Mike they should do a boxing. Oh. On the moon. That would be a mess because they would throw a punch and it would take them spinning somewhere on it.


They'd have to put leashes on their ankles and keep bringing them back towards each other.


Also, how could you get knocked down. You couldn't get knocked down. You just get knocked away. That's right, yeah.


There would be boundaries. But how would you even make boundaries? Yeah. Maybe be like you're fighting in a steel hemisphere. OK, like a big steel ball.


Connect the shuttle and then when you get hit and you hit the masche, whether it's up or down or sideways and then you stay on the mesh for three seconds, that is OK. Not three, ten.


Sorry, no knees, no need to shorten it. This isn't w-w know anything but bingo spectacular. That would be. Oh yeah. Like one percent gravity.


How do they actually go to the bathroom. Like do they strap themselves down.


I have to imagine there's a vacuum involved.


OK, they're still there I suppose.


Right. Because they'll flow off the toilet. Oh my God. I don't do that harness.


Oh it's every I mean I was always like knocking on the capsule. Are you in a hole in a cloud of onis for years.


Oh, oh.


Keep me away from space. Oh well I had to go there.


You couldn't pay me to go. I am not going to go now Hanegbi of you that you felt a little Lucy in this in there.


There has that's there must I wish I had asked him. I thought everyone knew I felt stupid asking that and I did ask him but he didn't seem to want to elaborate.


He just said it's very hard to prove up there. Oh the Russians say more food if you want to bribe.


Oh. Oh. You are asking logistics.


I thought I also assumed what he assumed, which is you were just like asking about that's what did that you told me the other day that he said, yeah, you just have to keep it.


Tell them, oh my God. Yeah, well. And that's what Christians trying to do.


So she's taking she's taking her cues from the Russian cosmonauts. Right.


So astronauts and cancer, it seems like there was some studies saying it was a little more prevalent.


Thank you. But there's a new study that says space radiation doesn't seem. To increase astronauts risk of death from cancer or heart disease, at least not at the doses they experienced during historical missions, longer missions such as a mission to Mars will likely come with a much greater radiation doses that could pose larger health risks. Not great for Scott Kelly because he was there like the longest.


Five hundred forty, all told or so. But he is the longest uninterrupted, correct?


Well, with his partner. Yeah. Misha, Misha. Good memory.


Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding dong. I don't know. I have to tell one joke before we complete those.


An astronaut. Oh, it's not a joke. I'm sorry.


Because you guys are Seinfeld people. You're not going to know this. This is a Friends reference. Oh, OK.


One of my favorite lines from friends is because Scott's a twin. Yes, he is. So this is why I'm connecting it. He's an identical twin and Phoebe has an identical twin on friends. And there's one episode where Phoebe wants to buy all the furniture at a flea market and Rachel wants to buy it from Pottery Barn. So Rachel starts lying and saying the stuff she's buying from Pottery Barn is from the flea market. Okay. And then Ross comes over.


He admired the furniture and then Rachel told him it was from Pottery Barn and that he had to lie about it.


And he said, twins are so weird. Wait, let me get this right.


Oh, my God. This is no problem at it.


I used to I used to know all the words. Fuck, yeah. Fuck yeah. Oh, fuck.


They said, you know why? It's because she's a twin. Twins are weird. And Rachel says she's not weird. She just likes for things to be one of a kind. And he said, you know what's not one of a kind, a twin.


There we go. That's really good. Yeah. Oh, so it wasn't a space joke as much as a it was a twin joke. OK, but still connected to this episode. Very much so, yeah. Yeah. Really nice.


That's all. OK, all right. All right. Love you. Bye bye.