Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Maximus Miles, it's our last real Monday episode of 20/20.

And you know what song would be appropriate right now? What?

Well, one of his would be most appropriate, but he it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas everywhere.

Even as we sit in your living room right now in the shadow of a beautiful noble for whom I love, it's my first real Christmas tree, elegantly decorated, very elegant.

It looks like it could be in the window at Neiman Marcus. Wow.

Thank you. It's kind of an OCD person's nightmare, putting ornaments on a tree. Like all I see, like, I need to move that toilet paper roll one.

Sure. So that it's more spaced out. You know, it's tough.

You know what? I'm going to take a picture of this for the cherries in case they get curious what you find disagreeable. Is that all right? Sure.

Now I'm going to zoom in on the toilet paper, OK?

Because people might have a hard time finding that toilet paper. That's my twenty twenty ornament.

Oh, that's a really smart one. Thanks.

It was the year of toilet paper shortages. It sure was.

I'll tell you who has no shortage of toilet paper or talent.

What's a good Segway? A ding, ding, ding. Sean Méndez. And it was so fun to have Sean Méndez on because he's actually been an armed Jerry from the get from the just so flattering.

It really is.

And he is a Grammy nominated multiplatform singer and songwriter. You love Senior Rita, you love treat you better, you love. There's nothing holding me back and wonder.

Now, his fourth studio album, Wonder is out right now and a great documentary with the title in Wonder on Netflix. So check that out as well.

And please enjoy Sean Mendez. We are supported by Bob's Red Mill, my breakfasts at least five days a week, let's say yummy one.

It's so easy. It's so convenient.

I've turned my daughters on to it. They love it. I add a little hot water and then I put a little scoop almond butter in there, spin it around and put the cat back on. And then about a minute and a half later, I'm in hog heaven and completely gluten free. So I feel like a million dollars after I eat it. It's my favorite thing in the world. In fact, I'm going to Texas on Thursday. Yeah, I'm packing Bob's Red Mill, my suitcase.

That's how much I needed in my life. And what's really great is the baking season is upon us and they have oatmeal, oats and you can bake with that lobby.

What made us the most amazing holiday cookies? You make them for us every year. They're incredible.

They have cranberry white chocolate. Oh, it's amazing. But he used Bob's red mill. Of course he did.

He didn't want to give me a flare up. Bob's red mill is super easy and delicious. You can use it in all kinds of baking. I urge everyone who wants to still pig out on yummy, yummy holiday treats to get into some Bob's Red Mill. Learn more about lots of awesome and delicious products and recipes at Bob's Red Mill dotcom stacks. And while you're there, be sure to enter for a chance to win an exclusive Bob's Red Mill Prize back in an armchair expert T-shirt.

That's Bob's Red Mill dotcom slash tax.

We are supported by saved by the Bell. What a pleasure. I have been reporting this on Peacocke, the wonderful streaming service they have brought saved by the bell back. The highly anticipated, reimagines, Saved by the Bell premiered on Wednesday, November twenty fifth on Peacocke and only on Peacocke. It's a new series.

Monica and I are so revved up for this.

I was such an enormous fan of Zack Morris, I love to say by the bell so much. Well, in the new series, Zack Morris is now the governor and he gets into hot water for closing too many underfunded high schools. So he proposes they send the affected students the most well-funded school in the state, including Bayside High. Now, the influx of new students gives the privileged Bayside kids who never have a problem that can't be solved. In twenty two minutes, a much needed dose of reality.

Elizabeth Berkley, Lauren and Mario Lopez, star in the new Saved by the Bell series, reprising their role as Jesse and AC Slater, John Michael Higgins also stars as Principal Todman, alongside a great cast of young actors now saved by the Bell, is available right now on Peacocke, the streaming service from NBC Universal. Sign up at Peacocke TV.com to stream. Now he's in our chat.

You hear me? Oh, my God, can I hear you? What a silky voice, right? Oh, man, you delivered already. Interview's over.

Good job, Sean. Thank you very much. I'm setting up the recording. We're going to lose you for one second, OK?

I've already begun recording. So don't I don't double hit. I will. OK, I can see. OK with my eyes. Wow.

I'm shocked by that. To be honest with you, I was about to say you have good eyes but you don't. You have terrible. But I can see a bright red light which is not to say they're not aesthetically pleasing, they just are not functional.

Well maybe you could only have one or the other. What are you saying that I can't see. If you had to pick whether you're pretty or.

Hey, guys, I've always wanted to just be like so laid back like this, seeing everyone look like they're relaxing so much. During this podcast, I was so excited to, like, cross my legs in an interview.

Now, you've got a real vibe going on this morning. You look like you're in a grotto and you look like you are also at Woodstock. You look very kaje supercut.

I mean, this is a big deal for me. I did Jimmy Fallon a couple of weeks ago, and I'm more nervous for this because I realize that this is like I really consume this content.

I heard Hugh Jackman say that in a podcast once and I was like, oh, I wonder if that's going to happen to me. And it is, well, so flattering, my God.

And I'm not unaware of this. So I've known that you like the your first one and I think early adopter, early adopter of the new technology.

And somehow we got connected on Instagram and I found it incredibly flattering that you liked it. And then I got really curious why you like it. I'm not mining for compliments, but you're a young man on the go. The world is your oyster. What on earth do you want to talk about?

Failures and humility and the fucking mental health. What I'm really curious. What appealed to you?

I mean, to be honest with you, like, that's more on my mind than music and pop culture these days. I feel like I'm doing more for my mental health to stay above water than anything else in my life.

You know, I'm so much older than you. And I was really saddened when I watched the documentary last night to realize, I mean, really much older. But we see all this data about younger people having increased levels of anxiety. And it would probably be hard to know if it's part of your generation or just your unique experience.

I think it's the generation and more so my unique experience. I'm also chasing anyone in an industry similar to mine. So when I started seeing you interviewing actors and talking about that type of pressure, I think the one that really got was Michael Penha. It was just his psyche before doing a movie. Yeah, the entertainment industry is just kind of crazy not knowing you and just watching the doc.

I'd say that you guys are really similar in your approach. He and I are opposite. Right. So I like being thrown in a very chaotic situation and trying to find my way out. And he is the ultimate rehearse or the ultimate prepare. And he wisely tries to control all the variables that are within his realm to downsize the anxiety about the performance. It seem that that's your approach as well.

Yeah, but also that's a very controlling approach and also sometimes leaves you with more anxiety than just trusting yourself. After listening to a bunch of your podcasts, I feel like you have this confidence, also this vulnerability, but this confidence that is kind of just there innately in what you do it as an actor now.

You know, it depends some situations. Yes. And then other ones it scares me. But again, you know, I've been at it for a while and I got really excited to talk to you genuinely. I never give advice to anyone. But you're so empathetic in the documentary. You're just so fucking likable. And I see the many things you're wrestling with. And then so much of it is just, you know, you're twenty two years old.

If you weren't wrestling with this stuff, something probably would be broken. But there's just a couple of things I was watching. I was like, oh, I really am glad to have his ear because there are a couple things. And you're already on the path like the dog starts with you walking around on stage.

And by the way, we just interviewed a Formula One driver. This is the same for anyone in a high pressure situation. Right. So the moment before the storm, there's so much going on. And you say like walking out in front of that many fans, you start with like ego to bolster yourself. Right? Like you try to let those people inform you that, yeah, I'm the fucking man, I can do this or these people wouldn't be here.

And then what I love about you is you immediately admit the first notes, always bad. I like that approach yields you not hitting the note. And then like 30 seconds later, you calm down. You remember you're just a dude who loves singing and performing, and then the thing takes off. And I find it so relatable and I think so many people would relate to that.

You know, you interviewed my performing. It's actually Michael Jouvet oh, I said, you got that? I've been working with him for like a year and a half and we I mean, I've been on this insane journey together. But the big thing for me was the signal to noise ratio, basically talking about your why, your reason of doing something and how that really controls how you're feeling at the moment. And during that, doc was my first time playing with my perspective on what I was doing and why I was doing it.

And before it was kind of just like bulldozing through, like they cheer. That means you do good, like keep going like. And then at some point during that tour, I started to try and practice this thing of like, look, I'm under the stage. I'm about to walk on stage in front of 20000 people. And I say to myself, you do this because you love it. You do this because you love to perform, not because you need praise.

Like if you walk on the stage and they're silent, you're still going to have a great night. It didn't make me believe it at all.

Oh, yeah, sure.

Yeah, I didn't I didn't believe that at all, but I started doing it every single night and it really helped my attitude of being a little bit more carefree about how it went. I was connected to my wife a little bit more, but I watched back the doc and I'm so different from then.

And that was a year and a half now. At that point, I hadn't had more than three weeks off for seven years since I was 15 years old, completely, absolutely non-stop. And then covid happens and I'm put into my girlfriend's parents house in Miami and we're there for three months together, just like doing laundry and cooking food again. Feels like the first time in my entire life in the last seven years hit me. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm like, I haven't spent any time with my sister.

She's seventeen now. She has who who's this guy she's dating? I don't all like I'm like I'm a horrible side. My mom doesn't even know, like how I feel about certain things. And it was like this whole like thing a couple of weeks of like extreme anxiety and then starting to flow into more of a state of like, OK, I get it, community and family time. And the people around you, the people that care about you is the most important thing in the entire world.

I hear the message loud and clear now. It's about trying to figure out how to get that balance, you know? Yeah, I mean, in essence, you're really talking about identity, right? And so for seven years, the number one thought when you think of who I am, is I'm a performer who goes out and performs. And then when that goes away, you're really forced to go like, oh, my goodness, well, what else am I?

Because I haven't been watering many other plants out of necessity. And I have to imagine it's terrifying.

Yeah, and success is a funny thing to happen to anyone at any age. But I think I don't know, I could be completely wrong. But I think maybe if I started now at 22, knowing myself a little bit better, yeah, I would be able to be like, hey, before a guy who has a few hit songs, you are a son and a brother and a friend, good friend. You just remember that. Oh, for sure.

Between 14 and twenty two is when you like. I don't know. For me I was going to be Jack Kerouac and I tried that for six months and I was like, oh this is fun, but it's a long way. I don't think I want to be Jack Kerouac. Then I was like, Oh, I'm really undereducated. I should go to college. Yeah, you know, I'm at college. Oh, I'm a Harley guy. I own a Harley.

I'm going to join the Hells Angels. I mean, I had twenty three pursuits before I ever had any success. And so by the time I had a little money, I think I yeah, I had kind of honed in on what was maybe a more sustainable identity for myself, although I don't think it ends. Yeah. You were robbed of that really fertile experimenting time.

I still haven't done it. All I know is this is a very unique thing. I've been to like three high school parties in my life.

I have so many thoughts about going to school and like, do I need to go learn how to play music? It's nonstop.

Well, you've certainly sold a ton of albums. I think you've sold ten million albums or more, which is very rare these days. But even at that, your income is touring, right?

That's your livelihood and brand campaigns and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's got to be fear at the beginning of it. Also, maybe there's some guilt that, oh my God, I'm really grateful for this. That's certainly what I've had, which is like, oh my God, I've been with my kids in this crazy amount of time for the last year.

That would have never happened without this. So I have all this gratitude and then I have guilt about having gratitude.

Isn't it weird like how real relativity is? Our own experience is all we can ever know at some point. Hopefully I want to go if it's safe travels somewhere and be there for a couple of months to experience a different reality and understand and have some perspective of my life. Because when you have so much, you start to really just pick on things that other people would see as like they're just not problems, you know. And inside of this pandemic, I know a lot of really close people from home who are closing down businesses and their restaurants and stuff like that.

And I was here like being like, oh, I'm so grateful for this time to just, like, stop. And it's just the opposite reality for so many people. And I realize how different my reality was, you know.

Yeah, but I think that's a really easy path to start feeling guilty. Look, everyone has problems and there's a saying in a way like if you put all your problems today in a box, if you were able to do that and you threw the box in the trash in two days, do you think the box will be full again? It would be. That's human nature. So then you get into this thing where you feel guilty, because I shouldn't have anxiety about this uncertain future, because I have money and I'm comfortable.

Well, that's just an unrealistic expectation for a human. You could fucking have ten billion dollars and you still got to be a good boyfriend. You still got to be a good son. You still going to worry about something? I think that's just the human condition. And then because you don't feel like you're allowed to have that experience or it would be some sign of not being grateful for everything, it puts you in a very tricky trap. That, I think is what becomes really isolating about a life like yours.

Absolutely. And I mean, you can feel like the complex of like I don't deserve this and that go down that guilt thing forever and ever and ever. But then you just have to find a place of like, oh, this is it. This is what I have and this is my life. And there is amazing things I can do with it, ways I can push this voice in the platform that I have to really make a difference. But it's really interesting being in the position that you are, too, and understand is a position of real comfort in a time like this, you know.

Yeah, but I can at least speak to both sides. So often people post the picture. I mean, the sand dunes right in someone. All right. Must be nice to be rich. And then, of course, I get really defensive. I will tell you this. I was broke for ten years and I've had money for the last twenty years. So I have worried about money, the same exact amount with none of it and a lot of it.

So what that tells me is it really has nothing to do with the money. I have a fear of financial disaster and it's exactly that. It's a fear. In fact, I may be of worry about money more with it than when I didn't have it. So I luckily have had both perspectives where I'm like, oh, no, this is. Just me. Do you think that that has a lot to do with the culture of not just America but the culture of Western society, of like this constant need to be wanting more and not be content with what we have or this constant fear of not being able to maintain?

Yeah, and by the way, that's the topic I kind of wanted to talk to you about, like on a personal level, which is we say I have a disease of more, so I want more of anything I want and I want too much of everything that I want.

This is something I was actually talking to my girlfriend about last night because I'm from Canada and it's similar to America, but it is a different type of place. And then in Europe, in Portugal, where my father's from and England from a farm town, it's another type of culture. And in America there is certainly this like whole that needs to be filled of like more and more and more and beyond means. And I also feel it, too. I mean, for instance, like I released an album last night and the amount of urges I have to go online and check in hopes that it's more successful than my last and I'm getting more strains and there's more people excited about it is ridiculous.

I mean, I've read enough of self-help books and done enough therapy sessions and enough work with people who can tell you that, like, happiness doesn't lie in that. But it almost feels like a conditioning of the society, you know.

Oh, I totally agree with you. First and foremost, yes. The United States is the least regulated capitalist experiment of all time. So I definitely think when you look at what Europeans spend money on, say, like a three week holiday and experience a meal. And I just am reminded of that bummer of a Cadillac advertisement like four years ago that they pulled where the guy was like basically saying, yeah, I don't see my family and I fucking sleep four hours a night.

But I got this Cadillac. I was like, oh, my God, they just they said it exactly. What they're selling is like, don't enjoy a fucking thing.

Just have all the stuff. It's an obsession with more. And lately I'm just constantly trying to wrangle that in and be on top of that, because that is the main source of my anxiety and my fears. And it's this comparing thing and it's the conditioning of media that I think has taught me to believe that I need to be doing more and having more and getting more.

Well, the thing I really felt like I related to you a lot on was when you were talking about who you were going to be publicly.

And if you were this certain person publicly, would you lose all of those fans?

Would that result in people not being interested in you anymore? And I know that feeling so much. And specifically with this podcast, which is I can't explain why it works. I don't feel worthy of it working. And so for the first two years of it all, I thought about and I'd even say it to Monica, like, I just I know it's going to drop off. I'd watch the numbers. It's too good to be true. It's going to drop off.

It's going to drop off. And I really was ruining this amazing experience that I'm lucky to have. And you know what? I switched. And this was the one thing the only piece of advice I was desperate to give you is I now go, oh, yeah, if it collapses tomorrow, I still did this like it can't fail. It already happened. I'm trying to measure the success of it by what's happening in a week or two weeks, but that's just completely backwards.

I already got to experience this amazing bolt of lightning and it's awesome. So if it ends tomorrow, it was three years I'm grateful to have had and if it ends in five years, it's five years. So I'd really just switch what side of the equation I look at.

Now, when you're acting and directing, did you feel like you were in the game of trying to be in the top ten of that game?

Well, great question, that was the other thing I was going to bring up to you about your shows, I was going to ask you if you have the choice to go out and do a show and you could feel that the audience thought it was lackluster, but it was the exact show you wanted to do and you sang exactly how you wanted to sing.

Which of those two outcomes would you pick? Or they thought it was the best show they've ever seen. But you personally didn't like it.

I grew up in a family that wasn't spiritual at all. There was no talk of religion or God or anything. And so kind of over the last couple of years, just learning everything I can about spirituality. And I have a real belief in the fact that if it is the most authentic, direct route to what I want, it would be the one that people would enjoy the most. That's like the irony of how the world works, but it also might just be a naive, childish way of seeing it.

But I think if I don't see it that way, then I would choose the one that they want. You don't want to choose that one. That's a really honest answer. Yeah. Interestingly, the things that I had no control over, say, parenthood or some other things I've been in that were really successful, the things I had control over, the three movies I've made, I actually made the exact movie I wanted to make. And America did not want to see that or some section did, but not what I wanted.

Top ten, as you say. And so I really had to go like, well, what would I have rather had? It's a huge hit, but I didn't make the movie I wanted to make or I made the thing I want to make and it didn't work. And so I'm very much of the opinion on my deathbed. I'm very happy. It was this because I really have a imposter center of everyone loved it and I'm like, that was shit, boy.

It would be even worse.

But also we have to remember that Sean is really young. So for most of your life, social media has probably played a role and you are conditioned. We're all conditioned, but I think the younger you are, probably the more intense it is to be focused on numbers, to be focused on likes like our brains are now shifting into being numbers focused and always having numbers to look at and always having this comparison thing happening. Everyone is doing that. And so it's, I think, a harder.

Yeah. Battle way harder for you.

Yeah. Everything's quantified in your life view and live streams.

I often think about how like 30, 40 years ago, like there was only like celebrities who were famous and understood what it was to be famous. But now if you have Instagram, you understand in a smaller way what it is to be a celebrity, because this completely unrealistic expectation that everyone's chasing to put on Instagram, this is really exhausting part. And this is like brutally honest. I never really talk about this because I have this horrible guilt and fear of ever sounding like I'm ungrateful for what I have and what I do.

And I am so grateful for it. And I'm here. I am I'm defending it like I always do.

But let me tell you something. It is abundantly clear you're grateful. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And it's exhausting because this industry I mean, everything demands effort to be great. You can't just like half ass it and it comes out great. But the industry demands being on top of that numbers game and that numbers world and not only on top of it, but understanding the game and the codes and how it's working and why it's working for some people.

And it feels like even social media to like the coloring or the stylistically framing of your photo like it demands you to be on top of that, to stay in the game. And I know it should maybe be talked about as a game, but it does genuinely feel like that sometimes. And it feels like you have two options. If you want to be able to detach like, for instance, if I want to say to myself, like, look, tomorrow, if it all went away, like I would be OK and happy, I have to work so hard to believe that I would have to delete social media off my phone for years at least.

And any time someone brought up Instagram, I'd have to ask them to stop talking.

Oh, yeah, it's like an insane drug.

Well, it is so interwoven as well with what you do. You know, I don't know if there's a lot I tell myself, but I do tell myself if I didn't have to promote things, I think I would leave it like it's part of my business to have an Instagram account. You know, this episode I'll post a picture and I do tell myself, but I don't know if it's a lie could be a lie that if I had no business reasons for Instagram, I probably would quit.

I have deleted it. I've deleted it for like a month and I felt better. But also there comes a point where you don't realize that there's any difference, because I think it's not necessarily social media. It's more of just the way we're looking at everything. It's like the same everything is a comparison game and everything is a better than game. So whether it's Instagram or conversation with a friend or a manager, it just feels like it's so woven into our.

Culture to be thinking that way, if that makes sense. Oh, yeah, but although it doesn't make it better, that's for sure, yeah. Have you ever thought, like, OK, what if I didn't monitor any of this and then at some point I said I'd like to go on tour, then someone would have to tell you, OK, well, we're playing this venue and not this arena or you have this budget for your next album and this other budget having all the thoughts and anxiety about that inevitable outcome.

What if you just unplugged and then if that inevitable outcome happens, someone's going to tell you. You'll find out when you walk on stage and you're you know, you're at a theater and not an arena, but that's when you get real with yourself and you ask yourself why?

And you keep coming back to that question of why. And to be honest with you, I still am unsure of my answer. And I don't know if that's just because I'm terrified or it's because I have no perspective. You know, I think there's a lot of room in my heart and soul and mind that needs to be filled up with perspective and other types of lives and other people's realities to be able to understand how mine is existing in those, you know.

Have you figured out what country you're going to go to, where people aren't going to know you for these experiences? I'm a little I'm a little concerned about where you're going to be able to go.

No, I spoke to Ed Sheeran and he told me to take a year off after every album and tour, and I haven't done it ever. So he has like a whole routing for me. He's like, there's some places you can go in Asia where, like, you're good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was walking through this jungle in northern Thailand once and I was getting stopped because I was legitimately the first white person anyone had seen and they were like touching my skin and looking at my eyes.

And I thought, there are places guitar, right? Yes, sir. Thanks for noticing. I noticed you're pretty tall from the documentary.

Got the long legs. You see that? Oh, yeah. What what are you.

I think I'm like six two or six three oh oh oh. That's exactly what I say.

Somewhere between six two and three. Oh you two. Yes. Yes. Now do you just genetically have that sweet chassy or are you a slave to the gym. I'm a slave to the gym.

Oh I was since I was really young but less every day and I like free myself from like what I think I have to be. But the most mind bending things I've ever done. I did a Calvin Klein campaign. When you do a Calvin Klein campaign, you really kind of have to be in shape. Marky Mark set the bar high at the bar high. And it was like one of the biggest cultural things of my career. And that moment was so hard for me because then I was like completely obsessed with not ever being anything less than that.

And it was crazy for so long. But I mean, this is the good thing about Zoome is like it's all angles and no one can really tell you look like any more.

So it's great. Well, the good news is you're already confronting all the shit I didn't start even thinking about till thirties.

This career has brought a lot of anxiety and insane shit into my life that I have to work with on an everyday basis.

But at the same time, it put me in touch with people who pushed me in a direction to confront this stuff at a young age. Yeah, I mean, everyone says that to me. Like, I didn't start thinking about this until I was in my thirties. And I'm like, holy shit, if I had to go through another ten years of not handling this stuff, I don't know what I would become.

Have you recognize that this is why the road that you got on is littered with bodies from people become addicts because it is such an isolating, bizarre experience. And so you either got to be A miserable B get to work or C, numb yourself.

It takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of hard work and it takes discipline. And that's something I actually find naturally. Something I've always had is discipline in anything I do. So I found it easy to be disciplined with my mental health. But I can't imagine for people who struggle with discipline, I'd be finding ways to know myself like that too.

I was relieved to hear you smoked pot. I hope you saw a good deal of pot.

Yeah, enough to get me through the year, I think mostly.

But I have this whole belief of I have to be the absolute, most incredible, a perfection of everything I do and I treat like my mental health the same way.

Well, that's what's interesting. So all these things are Double-Sided Saud's, right. So I noticed you have a manifestation journal. Yeah, I was like, that's such a cool idea because it starts forcing you to take the littlest bit of control that you can. But then I also noticed the way you do it is you will write, I will not blank or I am going to this, but you'll do it like one hundred times. And then I was like, he's a little OCD.

And probably that's required to learn guitar, to sit there and practice endlessly and become good at it. So it's like all these things that are. Two sided coins that you just have to learn to manage the downside and right. Nurture the upside and it's tricky when you say you're a little obsessive, extremely.

I mean, I've calmed down a lot now. I've been on the last week of promo. It feels like in every interview you just come up with almost an automated response. I hate that. I don't want to come up with automated responses. But you do regard this as some version of an automated response. And I've been doing that for like a week. And now I'm sitting here and I'm like freely talking. And I'm like, oh, I'm I can just be like a human.

And I'm like realizing something very honest and humbling. Over the last year, I really started to tap into a world of meditation and mindfulness and really setting myself free from expectations and gratitude. All the things and the last couple of weeks have been like, I'm on top of this ship and the ego is fading away quicker than I ever thought it was going to fade away.

I don't even care anymore. Like, I could be living under a rock tomorrow. And then I get on this conversation and it's like I'm completely full up with like, you have to say something that's found profound. I'm just saying that because it's honest and it's what's happening.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

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Yeah, I worked at a place when we used Zendesk when we had questions and it was awesome. You got answers so quickly.

When you get bad customer service, boy, it can go rough. I just had a real bad one.

I had an appointment and they cancelled their scheduled for an hour later than two hours later than three hours later. This is like six times they rescheduled.

I kept changing all day long whether we had to be home. And then ultimately they just said, oh, we're not coming and we'll see you in four days.

Very frustrating.

Very frustrating.

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I don't know if you heard my admission, but when we interviewed Bill Gates, my main goal is to try to not make him think I was smart. So I got home that day and I was like just thinking, well, you did it. You did not try to make him think you were smart. And I was proud of myself. And I was like, look at what humility can yield. And then my very next thought was, I wonder if we'll win a Peabody Award for that interview.

This is real time. I went from patting myself on the back from being humble to wondering if we were going to win a Peabody Award.

I was like, at least I laughed at it immediately, I think when I was younger. Oh, I would have ran with that fantasy of what I would do with the Peabody. I'd start making a speech.

I take myself so serious all the time. I don't know who told me that. I was like the lead actor in the movie life, but I really believe that sometimes and I'm like really taking myself so seriously and everything I say and everything I do.

And so I don't know how many times a day I'm like, dude, you're fine. This is not as big of a deal as sometimes I think I make it out to be.

Have you gotten good insight or connection from different people like when you were touring with Taylor Swift?

I saw her documentary and I was really impressed with how aware she seems to be of this duality of a public and personal persona and the needing the approval and what a treadmill that is. Is anyone, like, really said something profound to you that you put in your back pocket?

I mean, I've always been young, like 17, 18, 19. So like a real child in an industry full of adults. And I'm not really sure if people thought that they should give me that honest human advice more than give me the career advice.

Right. Right.

I feel like I've gotten a lot of amazing advice on career, how to make that a bigger and better thing, but maybe not as much advice as I needed on how to just be human, if that makes sense.

Yeah, well, this year in quarantine, we just have interviewed so many humongous singers in this story is just so uniform in the loneliness, the spike of everyone loves me then back in a hotel room and now I'm by myself of all these people love me. Why am I by myself? I mean, it's just so predictable, so clear that it's something that everyone's going to go through doing what you guys do.

It's interesting. There's an juxtaposition here because people feel connected over music at concerts. Everyone's there because they all love you. They all have like one singular thing. And music is a connecting device. It's this beautiful device. But the person making the music is actually outside of that. It's this bizarre thing where they're almost isolated while everyone else is connected. It's not really fair. It's weird.

It's certainly weird and always has been weird. So many musicians, it's the same story. You can go back to Elvis and it's that isolation for so long and separation from kind of normal life. But I think I'm like on this pursuit of forcing it down. I don't even know if it ever is going to go, but I'm forcing it down to normal life to try and have them be aligned with each other and searching for other musicians and other people in industry who live that way.

I think you should seek Sting's counsel. I think Sting took the path that you're on.

I don't think I'm ready for his words yet because I've met him a couple of times and he's got this very it's like almost like he's scanning me spiritually.

Yeah. Yeah. I felt him scan me, but that was like a couple of years ago. So maybe if he scanned me today I'd be ready for the words. But but I was.

Yeah. Like Yoda. Yeah. Well you never know anyone's real life, but it appears to me that he has figured out how to do the thing he loves to do without any desire of the approval related to it. And whether or not he's meeting your expectations, he seems to just be very centered and what his job is.

Yeah, I mean, he's a super spiritual guy, too. I think that people who have a strong belief in a higher power can sink into that and dig their teeth into that as a stable thing.

But I mean, the thing for me is like it is a choice. I just don't really know what I want yet. I don't really know what it is that I want. And it all kind of stems from fear, because I do know that I want to live a life where I'm not constantly chasing endorphins and little ego bumps. But at the same time, I don't know if I want to exactly slow down either. It's confusing. Sure. Yeah, the stakes are huge.

Enormous.

I mean, half the girls you're talking to out front of your hotel, they're balling. And I was like, wow, what an emotion to have to see somehow meet. I had this crazy, absurd rule and my rule was for like five years is if there's anybody ever asking me for a photo, I take a photo. So I'm not kidding. I was in England and this was last year, the tour before last year. I slowed this down a lot.

But two thousand people outside my hotel, I lined them all up down the street and I took a photo with every single one of those two thousand people. And halfway through, I'm just like basically doing this. Yep, yep. You know, it's like, aha, there's nothing human about that. It's like I my autopilot robot to be able to say that I do that to be able to say that it take a photo with everybody or to be able to show the fans that I love them.

And I realize if I can just like spend 30 seconds talking to a couple girls outside the hotel and maybe really kind of say something genuinely and connect with them. I mean, you can feel it in your heart, the frequency of like what that means compared to taking two thousand selfies, it's a different world or you have limits as an actual human being.

You have a capacity. So it's two thousand pictures. At some point you kind of clicking in a survival mode, which is like, I don't know if I have the stamina for this.

If we don't pick up the pace, like I might have to bail out of this and I couldn't bail out because I set these crazy standards to, like, always take every single photo that was asked of me.

So and thinking back, I did a lot of really crazy, weird things like that that I think sometimes we're just driven by the fact that I wanted to be able to say that, because then I'd get an interview and they'd be like, you're different than every other artist.

And they would say, you take photos with every single person. Why do you do that? And I would be like, you know, like you just got to take photos of everyone. But like, if you were actually there in person, you'd see me as a robot going down the line where maybe it would have just been so much nicer to just like spend five minutes trying to communicate and talk. I try to do that a little more now.

It's a phenomena and it always will be. And it's super weird. And I don't think we're ever going to really understand that type of thing. But I really think that giving a couple people some authentic heart to heart is so much more impactful than a ton of people, like a smile or a wave or like eye contact. That's when it starts to become another job.

Yeah, OK, I have a question. There's a mystery in the documentary and I doubt you're going to tell me the answer, but you come home from two or you haven't been to your apartment in Toronto for, I guess, six months. And as you walk in, you're being followed by the film crew and then you immediately snatch something off your piano and you went and hit it in a bag with and then an alarm went off. And then you were kind of freed from having to explain what just happened.

But I caught you.

What was you're not the first to catch me. I think every single person has asked me what that photo was.

Oh, shit. I'm not so unique.

My girlfriend and I posted a video of us.

We might have had a little too much tequila one night and just like recorded ourselves making out like as though we were like just monsters to get a rise out of people.

I think it was just felt like everyone was just talking about it and taking photos and there's paparazzi hiding in bushes. And it was like, what if we just post a photo of us, like licking each other's face like no one's ever, never seen this case?

Like we're just going to go full on like like gross. And people were so offended by it and so excited by, too. It was like this really intense thing because I was getting messages from people we like. That's the funniest thing I've ever seen in other people being like, you should really take that down. I don't know. That's kind of offensive. And I was like, put me in the excited camp.

Yeah, it's me too armonica too. Yeah, it was ridiculous, but at the time it was relevant. And my nan in England, who's in her 60s, I don't even think she knew what the photo was from. She framed the photo from that video and put it in a little Happy New Year's thing, like he sent it to me and it was on top of the piano. And I was my fear, just the governor's. I got to get this.

Oh, so that's what it was. Great. So Nans in the excited category, too. I'm glad to join her. And I think most people are in the excited category. I just think they're excited. They're a little less loud than the offended sometimes.

Yeah. That they said. Yeah, well it's like I always say, when's the last time you asked for the manager at a restaurant to go, hey, just want to let you know this fucking meal is dynamite in the service was spectacular. But if I find a fucking glove or a fingernail, I'm talking to that manager every single day.

I mean, I don't think I've ever done that, to be honest. I can't tell you a funny story. Tell me. I was younger and we went to big boys. I'm from Michigan. I noticed that your early shows, the big travelers' that had saw you were from Michigan. I was proud of that. We're at a big boys restaurant. There's a salad bar. My mom gets a bowl of soup. She finds in the soup a condom and unfurled condom.

And my mother, in her brilliance, asked to see the manager and the manager came over and she said, I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is your employees are practicing safe sex. The bad news is they're having sex with this.

Oh, my God.

Where were you in Michigan. It was a big boy in Milford, Michigan, and I was an employer at one point.

You were an employee there. Wow. That at the time of the condom fiasco. But yeah. Oh, I didn't know it was you. And you would have just told me not to put condoms in the soup.

Well I guess you really did rough it at some point. That's gross.

You know, it was a really cool podcast to listen to. Way back was with me the. Kunis and Ashton owe separately, but I do this thing where I like, desperately reach out to any celebrity who I like, think has figured out how to be a celebrity and be normal at the same time. So I did the same with Matthew McConaughey, too, and I ended up just getting in touch with Ashton and Mila Kunis. And I listen to both of their podcasts.

I'm starting to realize a pattern. And also, I think that's why I probably got addicted to your podcast, was because I was like searching for these people who really had this. A grounded reality of being a celebrity has been such an amazing person to me now over the last couple of years and reached out and me, there's also been so kind and stuff. But yeah, that's because of you, man. Oh, man.

That makes me so happy. Yeah, they're both delightful. That brings me to one of my questions. I think those two benefit from each other, both being on a similar level of fame. And I will say that I have benefited from when I work with my wife. Because she keeps me from being bratty, she's like, it's no big deal, like if I'm on my own, I could start thinking, that's a big deal. I do the thing I do.

But when she's there, she's like, what are you talking about?

Do it five more times. What do you care?

And I wondered if having Camela around when I would watch you guys on stage and stuff, I thought, is that a good force where it's like you can't buy into your hyper uniqueness all that much because your partner does the same fucking thing and it's not that big of a deal.

I mean, that is the conversation our constant is. So I am taking myself a little too seriously now. Sorry, my it's like that's our conversation to each other. And we're constantly apologizing for being like, oh, shit, I'm realize the ego's getting involved. And I'm like, I'm thinking I'm a superstar right now, but it's fine. I can totally do this. It's no big deal. I'm like, I'm unhappy about the lighting to do a liner for your cousin, but it's like, oh, it's not a big deal.

But we both struggle with that. And I think we're both really kind of settle each other down to a place of humility for that reason. Like the second she gets on stage, it's like you can't really hide, which is great and ends up making the performance better all the time.

Yeah, it's really fun to see you guys out there together. I have to imagine you, like, didn't date a ton as a non famous person. And so you're kind of entering your dating life is already someone famous. And I was wondering, did you have any fear that you wouldn't be interesting enough off stage for anyone? No, I actually have always really liked myself. Oh, good. I mean, I've had a lot of insane insecurities, but I think my insecurities had more to do with my craft and my career than my human ness.

I always felt like if I could walk into a room and be there in front of the person, I would be able to pull off anything because it's just like that's the default, that's the human. And that was really good for me. The hard part about dating Camela was only after five or six months being able to even sing a small lullaby around her because I didn't want her to hear me sound bad.

And it was suggesting it was an exhausting I couldn't even do vocal warm ups around her anything because I was so terrified of not sounding like I was like a perfect out of tune to human being.

But that's ironic because was in that kind of how you guys started getting romantically involved as she came into your dressing room while you're at some Taylor Swift show and you guys just sat down and wrote a song together.

Absolutely. But can I be completely honest? I have a mental block on the first like four years of my career. And it's weird and I can't explain why, but it's almost like the only things I can remember are the things that everyone has talked about like that.

Oh, yeah. And I don't know if it's because media has repeated it and so many times that it's just like it's creating copies of it and pasting it in my mind and it's removing the actual memories.

Yeah, I think I have memories of things.

And then I go home to my mom's and I'll look through a photo album and I go, oh no, no, no. I just remember that picture. I thought I had my own mental image of like my brother and I sit on the couch and no, I just remember that picture. So much of your life has been documented, like, who fucking knows what's a memory and what's that?

Sometimes not even true. Sometimes I think things happened that were just once a myth that people were talking about. And I really believe that happened. It's weird.

Oh, man, this is fascinating. I'm fascinated by you. I'm fascinated by that, too.

Actually, I have this really odd mental block on that first four or five years of my career.

Now, I think you were in a very tough position. There were all these rumors about you being gay early on. And I remember thinking, oh, you're in this impossible situation because if you want to come out and go, I'm not gay, it has some weird veil of homophobia, which I'm certain you're not homophobic in. So I guess if I were you, I'd want to go like, hey, I'd be happy to be gay. I don't mind being gay.

I just I happen to not be gay. I just seems like a weird position to be in.

Yeah. It was also so frustrating for me because there's some people in my life like I was very, very close to who were gay and in the closet. And I felt like this real anger for those people. I don't know. I mean, it's such a tricky thing. You're right. You want to say, like, I'm not gay, but it would be fine if I was gay. But and also, like, I have nothing wrong with being gay, but I'm not, you know, like you don't really know how to respond to the situation.

It's like it's a trap.

I've realized that we just have to stop having to be experts and like politicians about it, especially like as a famous musician who's a guy like I need to, like, be really fucking messy and say the wrong things and apologize and say the right thing after I apologize and like, be confused about how to respond when people say I'm gay and like now all of a sudden everyone's calling me gay since I was 15 years old, I'm not gay. And I'm like, well, what does that mean?

Then I had these problems with the way my voice sounded. I'm like, how do I say it? Like I'm always first to cross my legs and sit with, like, a position of this feminine type of style.

And I really suffered with that shit, but it kind of just like ended up becoming something that I wanted to just be really open about and really honest about, too, because I think a lot of guys go through that. And even worse than that, there's just so many guys who are gay and in the closet and must be hearing shit like that, just being like I'm terrified to come out.

Oh, my God. Yes. There's definitely two obvious reasons, I guess that gets rumored is like generally if there's a beautiful dude who doesn't have a girlfriend around him at all times.

Sure. That's one reason people go like, well, something doesn't smell right here or another reason would be the one I guess is the one you were nervous about was that you were somehow not acting manly or masculine or straight or something. You had to start thinking about how you moved.

I grew up. All my cousins were girls and I didn't grow up wrestling. I grew up like getting my hair braided on New Year's Eve. It just completely depends on the way you grew up in your life and your surroundings.

Then came a point where I just started to be like hell, yeah, I've got that divine middleground that like Freddie Mercury. I'm going, right? But then I'm also not there either. I'm totally not there. I'm still a little bit more manly than that. So I don't know. It's all a little confusing. So I'm just going to let it be what it is.

Well, you're definitely on the generation. It's like an interesting. To be who you are, because we're on the cusp of, like a lot of these things breaking down for the better, I think, to take the shackles off men and if they should be emotional or they should be scared or weak or strong, all these things. And you're kind of at that moment, I think you're one of the people that will pave the road for other people.

I even think about it in a much simpler way. I was watching your documentary in all your childhood friends show up and this feels weird to say, but first thing I thought was like, you got a desk friend, you got a black friend, you got a redheaded white friend even that's different from when I was a kid and you saw rock stars like they all looked like they were all this and already that's different.

Yeah, that's my reality of where I grew up in Canada. It's a complete melting pot of so many cultures. And like that is my reality. It's also a fine line to balance, too, because I think people are really quick to just say, like, oh, well, he's an artist. So he gets a pass to be vulnerable in a place to cry. But like most men shouldn't guys need to just be vulnerable. We need to cry, stop thinking this is being brave and strong and start thinking it's the opposite.

Actually, we're holding in these emotions and not crying and being assholes. Nothing about that is nice.

I admire you. You're evolved, mailed to point out. But I had to go like right. Wheelies on motorcycles and stuff. I had to do so much, quote, masculine shit so that I felt like I could get away with all my female emotional side publicly. I felt like I had to be doing both.

And it's not anyone's fault, though. It has so much to do with the way media has portrayed men in the way media puts men in movies. I also think like there's an aspect to it of the way women want their men to be. And I definitely know relationships of friends of mine who are like, oh, my girlfriend doesn't want me to just like tell her how I feel and cry and stuff around her, like I got to be strong for her.

I'm in a relationship with my girlfriends, like, we're going to get in bed and you're going to put your head on my chest and you're going to cry into my chest and you're going to tell me how you feel, because if you don't do that, you're just going to be an asshole for the next week and I'm not going to do it. That's it. So I'm just lucky to be in a relationship. That's for it.

Yeah. It makes me think of this funny Onion article I read two weeks ago, and it was like week effeminate man decides to cry for two minutes in his bedroom instead of telling his son to shut the fuck up. I thought, oh, this is so fantastic. Yeah. Like, what if that was the response to your frustration to your kids, is it let go. Fuck, this is hard. I'm going to go cry for two minutes in my room.

That's so brutal. But no, you're like I got to control these little shits. I got to, you know, be the captain of the ship.

What a world that would be. Also, I think something that needs to be talked about, too, is like there is a natural feeling of how to be masculine as a man like you, just always some sort of masculine thing. But it doesn't mean that that's what it has to be all the time. But you can't be afraid of either. I think it's the allowing of whatever's coming up to come. It's our courage. It's complete courage. You are right, though.

We're on the cusp and like twenty years, I really can't imagine, like, what it's going to be like because I already think in like two years it's like a different world.

Oh, I totally agree. I had one creative question for you. Well, two things. One is I really like, again, something that took me, oh, I don't know, thirty two years to figure out, which is to give myself permission to be shitty at writing. I found that when I sit down and write a script it has to be great. So I just don't start. I'm afraid of course is going to be great.

So just learning to tell myself like hey, write something shitty, you're allowed to do that. It sounds like you've embraced that concept when you're writing. Ed Sheeran told me this concept to get to the Clearwater, you have to open the faucet and let all the dirty water pour out. And I always felt that there was so much more easy to digest than write something shitty and be OK with it.

It was like, no, there's only one out. You can't just get to the clean water. So you got to, like, let it almost vomit out. I will say, though, for me, it's not about writing something shitty as much as it's about just like writing something and then that is what it is and freeing myself from the expectations of what it's going to be. Really, really freed me up over the last year.

Well, in my experience, I permit myself to write something shitty. And guess what? I don't ever really write any. You don't write any. I just feel like, yeah, just start. It can be shitty. You'll rewrite tomorrow and you'll fix it. And then the only real hurdle in my life is just my fear of being shitty.

Absolutely. I mean, that's the constant. And that was what I used to get confused about because it's like I don't really ever actually want to write something shitty. Can I just, like, write something? They can try for it not to be shitty. That's why the fosset thing always helped me.

Yeah. Yeah. You're not giving yourself permission to put out something shitty. Good. That's a whole different thing. Yeah.

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How do you channel the devastatingly and love vibe on every album? How is that sustainable?

I was really curious about that because I've certainly fallen in love a handful of times.

But, you know, it's sporadic and I don't know if it's because you're still young. That's really accessible. But is that hard or not?

That's because I was never in love all those times I wrote about it. I think the only time I've ever really wrote about being in love is this time, and I'm not devastatingly writing about it anymore. It's a much more subtle approach to writing about love this time around. But yeah, in the past I would hear the smallest little thing and it would set me off to write a song that was like, you know, you're ripping my heart to the floor and I'm I'm going to absolutely die if you don't text me back.

But I was never in love before. That was just me dramatizing anything I've ever heard about love.

Yeah, well, on Wunder and in the movie that you're writing that song with very cool lyrics about wanting to go to sleep, to get in bed, to rush to bed, I'm not with you. I want to think about you and count backwards from one hundred.

And I was like, oh yeah, yeah I've felt that.

But boy, I couldn't be required to feel that every album there is a world that you tap into love and hate and darkness and happiness like the extremes are like so entertaining and so fun to talk about and to listen to. So when you walk into a studio, it's like you walk through a door that's like you're going to be dramatic today.

You're about to be dramatic, just like except it, you know, so I think I was like 15 when I really started writing. So it's just become a part of a process that I haven't even thought about actually until asked about it, because it just feels like it is how I do it, you know.

Yeah. And Jeff, what's Jeff's last name? Jeff Warburton. You guys write a lot together, is that right?

Yeah. You know what? Jeff was one of my best friends from home, older brother, and he kind of taught me how to play guitar. I was about to go out and to do promo, but my parents couldn't leave because my sister was young and they were working.

So he kind of became my your guardian yet. And it was so funny because he was hired as a guardian. But then he was also teaching me how to play guitar and we were just writing songs together in hotel rooms. And that was how that relationship started.

When I see you on stage, it looks cool, but it doesn't look like a life experience I'll think about.

But when I see you in the studio, I'm very jealous of those moments where it's like you throw a little bit of on and then the other person throws a little bit of paint on and then all of a sudden this thing just catches fire. Like that has to be a euphoric Zen like flow experience.

It is as long as you can remember that it comes when it comes and you don't spend all the time when it's not coming. Exhausted from stress about the fact that you don't have a song yet, you can really thrive and enjoy those experiences. Do you just like sit in a living room talking about things and kind of playing some chords and kind of singing some things and then something kind of sticks. And then, like you said, it catches on fire.

And next thing you know, you have a song.

Well, I think it's a really, like, outward display of vulnerability because you don't know it yet. Right? Like, when you go on stage, you're going to play whatever 18 songs that, you know, those fucking people are going to love. Whereas when you strum a new chord and then try a new lyric, it's like it could be terrible for me.

I cannot write trying to write something that people were like, I can't.

I have to write a trying to be cool if that sounds so ridiculous. But I mean, I have to write trying to be more interesting than I have in the past.

So it's like a weird record or a weirder sentiment or weirder words I haven't used before. A different type of key like that's what triggers my creative sense. If I go into like I have to beat the next song, I'll make the worst song.

Well, so then what's the dynamic when you collaborate with some of these bigger artists like you and Justin Bieber did a song together, does it elicit a lot of fears like, oh, I'm not good enough to be here with him or not, I'm going to be shitty on this? Yeah, totally.

I mean, I was so exhausted by the end trying to just cut a couple vocals on that song after he laid his first down. I just didn't even know who I was anymore when I was in the studio for three hours cutting vocals and I walked out of it like spinning a spinning mess of who I was comparing myself to him. And he's so, like, gracious and so kind. And this is something I keep learning over and over again. But we were on the video shoot and I come into the room and I'm like, if the cameras were rolling, I have to actually sing.

Otherwise, it doesn't look like I'm emoting. I'm going to sound like shit like I'm not the best if I don't practice. And he was like, I feel really intimidated and really nervous in front of you actually right now. So, like, we both had this real moment of like such human interaction that it really freed us to move forward together.

But that is wrong. That doesn't always happen. I mean, it happens actually one percent of the time.

That is beautiful. You guys both. Just were humble. Yeah, some people you cross in life, you just can't really bullshit.

Well, you guys seem like drastically different people, but at the same time, there's so much similar stuff.

I mean, you both being from Canada and being very young phenoms, I think we share a lot of similar trauma being young celebrities. And I think Camilla actually and I share the same thing. It's kind of like in Harry Potter, like when Ron, in her mind, end up falling in love.

What Monica's favorite thing in the world is Harry Potter.

So I don't get me started. It's my absolute favorite thing in the whole entire world. It's the reason I ever thought of anything cool ever.

That's so good. Are you a Gryffindor? No. I bet you're a raven claw. I feel like I have a puff.

Actually, no, I have no idea what you guys are saying. I love it. What's a hoverboard?

It's one of the four houses and it's generally considered to be like the doo doo doo house, like the dumdum or the region, not dumdum and not the happy go lucky.

Kind of. Maybe I'm not. Actually, you're right. Maybe I'm more of a raven, more anxious and neurotic. I think so. I think so. And I think I am, too.

Monica just took a personality test yesterday on air and she got a one out of one hundred for emotional stability. So she's really kind of reeling right now still from that that that actually really affects you.

Yeah, more than it should have. I been really surprised by that number. My identity was shattered a little bit. I had therapy the next day. We talked about it. The more interesting part was my reaction, obviously, that I cared that I'm not stable in that way, although I think that was misleading. I think I have a little more stable than one percent. But, you know, I guess I value that more than I thought.

Have you been sitting there today, like, being like I got to be more emotionally in touch today? No, no.

That's just more able to emotionally in touch, I suppose, or it's just a roller coaster ride. Who creates those things? Who's the professional that decides? Well, there's the big five personality traits. And we decided to take the test. And I'll tell you, if you're an extrovert, if you're disagreeable, your stability, your openness to experience, it's a good test.

It's like fundamental fun things. But what I enjoyed about it is I could so relate to Monica. She got her score.

I saw the look on her face and I could tell in her mind she somehow was evaluating like, oh, God, what is DACs now? Think of me.

When I said that, after I said, I think you're going to use this against me, which is comical because I just think what I think about Monica, it really wouldn't matter what some tests said. I already think what I think about Monica.

Did you already think she was emotionally unstable before that? Yes. And I love her for it. Yes, exactly. That's the point. That's the interesting thing is like, I don't think we even realize why people like us I don't even know like why people like me. Sometimes I think they like me for other reasons and it's just not the case. We love you because you're emotionally unstable.

Well, I think we all spend a lot of time trying to figure out what other people like about us. And we don't spend a ton of time figuring out what we like about ourselves.

Oh, my God. Something that really stuck with me was this realization of like these grooves in our mind. And if we have these deep grooves of self whipping and not meeting our own expectations and you fuck that up, you didn't do that good enough. You weren't whatever that groove gets so deep and I feel like we're killing it in that game, like our grooves must be so deep. And the one that's like like you said before with the manager at the restaurant, like we're never like, dude, that was nice.

You were right. That was great. You open the door for that person. Great one. Like, so what I've been trying to do over the last year is like I have a journal and I'm like literally writing in the journal trying to deepen that groove because it's a completely habitual the way we think about ourselves, depending on what we've done. So I mean, I work on that nonstop, trying to just be like, I like you.

I'm so happy you're journaling because what the Journal ends up being is what Google can do. Right?

So Google actually knows what we've done over the last ten years. They know every single thing we've done. So when they're trying to figure out what we're going to do next, they have the data.

Yeah, we don't have the data. But your journal can be the data where you're like, oh, last time I went on tour, let me just see how I felt three days before tour. Oh, I was scared. I think I'm this I'm that what I feel like on day two of tour. Oh, this is fun. It's so great to see everyone. But and I was like, let's just skip today, too. We know it's coming because I have the proof.

It always comes.

I mean, I just wish that my journal was as good as Matthew McConaughey, his journal, to be honest, because I read it certainly during the process of reading his book, I started writing in my journal differently, turning like any sort of simple situation into some sort of messier, dirtier grid.

Yeah, like just gross situation.

Yeah. I mean, he's a storyteller 100 percent. That was weird. Good. I don't know why it was weirdly good, that book. I think you and I share that I aspired to be as comfortable as he is in his own skin and seemed to enjoy the exact situation he's in.

He does things that I would be really afraid to do, like go down the Amazon River on my own for two weeks. I would be very afraid to do that. And I think that's why he's so comfortable in his own skin. He does really gnarly things.

Yeah, well, listen, if you're ever in Los Angeles, I'd love to take you out to do some gnarly things. You're invited any time you'd like. Thanks, man.

I would love to come to San Diego with you and have people comment about the richness on the photos. I think it'd be funny.

Well, there may be even more pissed to be like must be nice to be friends with Sean Mendy's. It'd be I'm rich and friends with you would be a double whammy.

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. I know I messaged you like a long time ago.

I was so flattered. You really made my day. And then, yeah, we've been trying to get this going for a couple of years and I'm so happy that we were here.

I really want people to listen to your new album, Wonder. I have it. I was with my daughters this morning preparing for some school, eating breakfast, listening to all the new music. It's fantastic. Thank you. The documentary is absolutely fantastic. I really like it. And that, too, is called Wunder on Netflix. And is there anything else you would like us to put out there that we haven't? Yeah.

Now it's so funny. Like, I think as a musician, like I'm always in the wringer of people promoting my album and my music and stuff. So I really was so excited to do this because it was not about that. I knew you were going to just be like talking about the condom in the soup in Michigan.

So I'm really grateful. If you need the address for that place, I'll forward it to you.

Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate you guys.

Yeah, I hope we get to talk to you again. Yeah, I can tell I like you a ton and we could see perfectly. I was six, two and a half high. That's rare.

Let's obsess about our bodies together in my home gym. I'd love that we should film and put it on Instagram. All right, John. Well, good luck with everything. I hope you enjoy the end of quarantine and I look forward to seeing you in person. I'd love to bring my daughters to come see you.

That would be so whenever you want. If everything shows again. Take care, guys. Thank you very well.

Bye. And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soul mate Monica Padman. Oh, dream of a cruise groups like the ones I used to know, jingle, jingle, jingle, jingle bells, jingle, jingle bells.

It's time money. You know, it was just a matter of time that we were going to get in business with McDonald's on account of how often I talk about how much I love the Big Mac with specifically with extra sauce and extra cheese. But we don't have the mission of moving any Big Macs. In fact, we're here to talk about the fact that in L.A. and around the country, McDonald's is proud to be a meaningful part of the community because, you know, their owners and operators, they don't just work in the communities, they live in them, too.

And that's why McDonald's supports their communities when they need them through food donations and serving hot meals to first responders who are working to provide aid after disasters or right now in our current pandemic.

And we love spreading kindness and supporting others and helping our community. So I thought we could, in honor of celebrating community, each maybe share some holiday traditions from our own holiday community. How out of ten how hard did you guys go for XMA in Georgia?

You and the family we never went hard at because I don't really know what that means, but very, very predictable.

OK, Gulfam, every year at my parents house, grad's grandma and grandpa and aunts, everyone comes around one on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, Christmas Day.

We didn't have any Christmas Eve except my brother and I started creating one. We would watch the holiday on Christmas Eve. Oh, fun together. Yeah, we we enjoyed that because first it was a joke because it was on once randomly and we were laughing at the way Jack Black said chocolate covered macaroons.

You loved that. Oh, we loved it. We laughed and laughed. And so then we made it a tradition and we watch it every Christmas Eve, except not this year.

Maybe guys go watch it virtually.

Maybe he texted me and said and was bummed I wasn't coming home. And I said, me too.

But the way it goes this year, a little different, but that's OK.

OK, so that sounds nice and warm and lovely. So this is what I would say.

Going hard is what Laura LaBeau would do. OK, so. Oh my God, what a day. This was about two weeks out from Christmas, maybe three. We get in the car.

Carly, David, I my mom, we drove to downtown Detroit.

We'd go to Cobo Hall and they had this huge indoor festival. They had all these weird rides. And then they have this thing.

We spent most of our time at this area, which was Styrofoam snowballs, and you try to throw them in the mouths of all these different characters and then real ball fights would break out, so on, so forth. Then we would hop over to Hudson's back when Hudson's was still thriving. And when you walk through their little Christmas thing, you got to meet Santa Claus. It was all decorated. It was lovely.

And inside of Hudson's was Sonders. You know my love for Sanders.

So Sanders deals exclusively in sweets and we would go and get a hot fudge ice cream puff. Oh, I'm telling this of order. We'd actually go after Cobo Hall to Lafayette, the best Coney dog in the city. We need our chili dogs. Then we go over to Hudson. We'd walk through the fun little thing and then we'd end at Saunders' and we get a hot fudge ice cream puff, which is like this beautiful pastry.

They've just cooked flaky pastry stuffed full of vanilla ice cream and then smothered in Sondra's hot fudge. Wow. And that's just to get into the spirit of Christmas.

That's weeks out. Sure. Now, Christmas Eve, because divorced parents would start over at the Shepherd's House and one Uncle Jerry, they would host all the shepherds would be there. We would rage.

And then my dad would then drive us to Uncle Larry's house, where we would be with the LeBeau's and we'd wrage hard there.

We would not get back to our house to probably 1:00 in the morning now.

Then we wake up in the morning, do an elaborate Christmas morning waffles, the whole nine yards. My mom always put herself in debt, buying really nice presents. And then we would get picked up and then we go to my dad's and have Christmas.

So did your mom go with you to your dad? Occasionally, my dad would sleep at our house on Christmas Eve so that he could be there for Christmas. No kidding.

That's nice. When she was without husbands, that happened.

But obviously some of the stepdads didn't want my dad spending the night there. Right, right. Right.

That is so fun. Yeah, mine's is definitely a little bit more low key. The morning is cooking together, not breakfast. No one eats breakfast on Christmas. OK, the food's about to get in a big hit hard. Yeah.

So we'll cook and then open presents and then the rest of the fam comes and then we have the Christmas feast and our. Lots of fun chitter chatter at the table. I love it. It's really fun. It's really, really fun.

Yeah, I love the day that there's literally the chore to do that day is to open some presents.

What a great guy to give. I love having people open presents. I give them.

Yeah, I like it. Yeah. I give Wirth's presents the news so it's not as fun for me. I generally get like one or two great presents and the rest I do, I don't do a great job. So that's all right. Yeah.

And as I've gotten older I don't really want anything. So to me it's all about laying on that couch fire going and just lounging all day long.

It's so comfy and cozy I keep the shades closed.

So you get that pop of all the colorful lights in the house and the fire. I wanted to kind of be nighttime all day. Oh, interesting.

Cozy, cozy, cozy. Family time. Now, we have partnered with McDonald's because McDonald's has a lot of great work with the Ronald McDonald House. So to celebrate our family traditions, we wanted to start a new one. So armchair expert has made a donation to the Ronald McDonald House Charities this holiday season because like McDonald's, we believe in the power of celebrating community and the joy of giving to those in need. So I hope other people donate as well.

It's a great, great organization, McDonald's serving here.

Now, I wouldn't mind getting some French fries on Christmas.

I would like a Big Mac with, you know, how I order my Big Macs exercice extra cheese. Yeah.

Wow. Does that take it to the next level? It could be Christmas Eve Eve meal. It could be new tradition. Oh, yeah, that'll be fun.

Well, we'll all be together. Let's start that tradition. I love it.

I regret not asking Shawn Mendoza what he was going to do on Christmas Eve.

He's going to be soulful and attractive in Miami. And beautiful girl. Beautiful girl. Exactly. I'll probably make love under a Christmas tree.

Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

What a thing to observe. Just looking at my tree and seeing that that would be quite hard. Well, to be literally under it, it seems like it'd be impossible.

But if you put out a huge red felty soft throw and a hat type throw, but that was huge enough for two adults. And then you laid on that in front of the tree.

Oh, in front of OK, then you could do your sweet Christmas lovemaking in the shadow of the tree.

That sounds cheerful. Enjoy your holiday Joy. Yeah, because under the tree if you a tree like mine mine mine starts low, real low. You'd get many prickles. You sure would. Which might amplify the experience. You never know that fine line. Oh oh.

Poke poke out a little bit. Oh and you never know what it's due to. That's right. Mixed messages. Oh God. We love our mixed messages.

I'm so glad we got to chat with him because as you said, he's an arm cherry and also he's a humongous star.

He is a humongous and a lovely person.

My goodness.

I don't know how he has the disposition to be asking himself these questions at his young age.

I know this is why I have hope for the future. Me too. These young kids are thinking in ways we were not thinking. No.

And sadly, I think it's out of necessity because of the really epidemic levels of anxiety and stuff. I think they're kind of forced to confront this.

Yeah, you're right. Or get taken out by it. And he's fighting like a motherfucker to not get taken out by is impressive.

I know. Good for him, good for him and good for his hair and good for his sultry, soft, sweet voice. You're going to hate this. Oh, go ahead, prepare.

I did get worried that he's not going to have sex enough. Why? Well, just because he's so healthy, you probably won't be filling a hole in his body, in his soul by just having sex with a lot of people.

That sounds like he's going to have sex the exact right amount, then. Probably, yeah. You're like the healthy amount. I hope that's what he does. Yeah.

But I kind of want him to traipse around all you want him to hurt people's feelings and also get hurt. And that's not a good Christmas wish for him.

What about about a multiple person situation? You don't you want him to miss out on that? You know, he could have that. Whoa.

And everyone could be, but they wouldn't hurt their feelings wouldn't be hurt.

And that's what if everyone's coming in knowingly.

Yeah, well, I the type of traipsing around I'm implying he do be with full honesty and everyone be excited and not hurt by it as well.

I think he's just going to have some monogamy.

I don't know what he's going to have, but I think he's going to just probably try to do it in a healthy way. And I hope he succeeds.

It might be easier for him because he's so fucking gorgeous that the thrill of getting the approval isn't as much as it would be for me.

Yeah. You know, yeah. He said he's always liked himself. I really liked that he said that. Me too.

I guess maybe if you're starting from a place of like, oh, I bet no one likes me, then maybe don't have to go out and try to prove that they do. I don't know. It might be. One of the advantages of being Gheorge, I'm sure it's one of the many advantages, I'm sure, but he's responsible with his gorgeousness. He's taking his life seriously. And I appreciate it.

Me, too. Oh, I guess I know what I'm trying to get at. I didn't even know what I was getting at, but now I just realized what I was getting.

OK, so he has the expressed goal of, like, living a real life. Yeah, it's something he wants to do. And I guess I'm nervous if he becomes self actualized before he even has that experience, can he get the experience he wants while being self actualized? Oh, that's interesting.

I guess that's what I was thinking when I was like, well, yeah, but that doesn't have to come via sex.

No, it's just preferred from my point of view. Sure. You know, I see what you mean.

You have to learn from mistakes. So you do have to have them, right. Right.

When we talk to him, when he's like forty five and we'll find out. Let's check back in and let's check 20 years. Put it on your Cael.

Yeah, I'm going to have Rob put it in the armchair calendar. Twenty, forty one. Let's give Shawn a call.

Is your child's favorite. Oh my God.

We have not stop listening. Do I know what you did last summer? It's on every single morning now. She loves it.

I like mercy. Mercy, mercy.

Is it on this a new album. No, you know it. I'm going to play it for you. OK, hopefully he won't see us since we're like.

Yes, and oh I love this song. Yeah. I didn't even.

I thought this was what's his name. Bieber.

No. The like English kind of. Oh.

Shot Sam Smith. Yeah. I thought it was Sam Smith. Wow. Yeah. This is a good thing to excuse me. I can't take any more baby Jesus. Oh God.

Oh it's so good. Yeah you're right. Sam Smith. That's who I thought had sang that song until I went down the little Seanie Méndez rabbit hole.

Lincoln has good taste in music. Yeah, she does.

I attribute that to her. And then also the fact that we never went down that road where we played bullshit kid music to them.

Some parents will get these kids CDs and it's the most annoying music ever. And they're just like held hostage by these terrible, terrible songs. And we were just like, we're not going.

That's going to be part of our life. That makes. Yeah, but that seems like it. But he's working out people gifted them to us and I just. I tossed.

Yeah. Or donated them. You tossed. I don't envy people who wanted to be held hostage by I mean Hall and Oates was their main education on music. That's what they heard the most when they were kids.

Man, that's a good one. It's a good entry drug. OK, so some people enjoy our quizzes.

Oh. Oh, tell me. Well, I thought maybe we should take a quiz. Oh. Since it came up, which house were in at Hogwarts. Oh great.

Yes, because I'm totally in the dark about how this works. Yeah.

I remember knowing if you're giving someone a compliment or burning them by saying you're an muggle barf or urine skeleton.

No, no. Half half Hovell POV and slither into the to your thing slithering and you seem to like people in slithering because you're in slither. No I'm not in so that. Oh my gosh.

So therein is evil but also also not so people are screaming right now because there are no good and bad horses.

It's just characteristics like people. Exactly. But it's widely known how awful puff is for Dodo's. Dodo's and Southerns are four evils. All the dark lords came out of slithering.

Not a great track record. No, but they're very smart, intelligent, and they have also beautiful people come out of Slither.

Oh, and the big thing, Harry.

So when he went to get his so bosna, Gryffindor, Raven Claw, slithering huffily, Raven Claws, the one that you when I've heard you tell people there in Raven Klodt, what I say to myself is Monaca likes Raven Claw the most.

Raven car is the smarty pants. OK, so I was right. Yeah.

But I also love Gryffindor. Yeah, but you like Raven Pant's. Don't call it that so. Oh sorry.

Smarty Claws.

Gryffindor is the brave house you want to be in.

Gryffindor really. OK, mainly because Harry's in Gryffindor but. When he put on the sorting hat, the Sony had said basically this could go either way, Richard, or slithering, right.

And he said, I really want to be in my Campean Southern, please. No. And so it it allowed him to go to Griffin.

And this is the age old battle between the good force and the bad dark force and the good for us. That's right. I'm not saying they're a dark force in. Yeah.

From Star Wars. Oh, I don't know anything about Star Wars. Use the force light. The dark side. The good side. I don't know. Yeah. Something something positive one.

But it's the same force but yeah it can be good or bad.

So let's take it.

Oh great. We're getting some interference. I want to be in the house that solves problems. Because there were some electrical interference just now, right? And I solved it and I feel so proud of myself. I want to be in that house.

OK, well, that could be any of the houses, but probably Raven Claw or maybe Gryffindor or Slithering.

Not dumb. They don't really solve those kinds of problems, OK?

They're not mechanically inclined, I think, on my log and worked my Pottermore. Oh, you have a look. I have a passport because I got Gryffindor when I did this.

Surprisingly, I did do it one other time and I got rave and club at Pottermore. I got Gryffindor. And when I put the hat on at the Warner Brothers studio, I got Gryffindor.

Oh, OK. I mean, from what you've told me about both houses, yeah. You're a shoo in for either, but you're brave and smart.

I probably have a lot of slithering on me too. I don't. Why don't we all. We all do.

Well, the couple pups really don't have the full puff's I know they couldn't even give them.

I know they didn't even mascotte much that they're dumb dumbs. We were bozo's. This is it.

OK, ok, here we go. You're ready. Yeah. You won't be taken simultaneously. I can't. Oh I have to type it in.

I guess we're going to every other one because you gave me the zip code test. I gave you the five personality test.

We already know as is my passport says I'm Griffin.

You're Griffin. You're a brave what would you least like to be called? Ignorant, cowardly, selfish, ordinary po boy.

Do you know what to.

I would hate to be called cowardly and ignorant, cowardly and ordinary, but cowardly would be the number one burn for me.

OK, yeah.

When you're dead, what do you want people to do when they think of you, miss me and smile. Think of my achievements, tell stories about my adventures. I don't care what people think of me when I'm dead, it's when I'm alive that counts. Yeah.

The last one when I'm dead, I want people to remember me as the good, the great, the wise, the bold, the bold. If you can make a potion that would guarantee you one thing, what would it be? Love, glory, wisdom, power.

Love for goblets are placed before you, which do you drink, the golden potion that gives off bright sun spots that dance around the room, a silvery glittery potion that sparkles as if containing ground diamonds, a thick potion that smells of plums and chocolate, a black inky potion that gives off fumes that make you see strange visions, a golden stuff that puff of.

I don't think so. OK, I do kind of know, but I don't want to sway.

Why don't you give me my score before you find the results? We'll see if you're at the end.

Yeah. Yeah. Before you find out the official results, I want you to make a prediction. OK, sure.

Which instrument is most pleasing to your ear? Violin, piano, drums, trumpet. It's a toss up between piano and drums.

Oh. Most pleasing to your ear. Trupiano, thank you. Thanks for putting me back on the right track.

That was fun to play, but I just like beats, I like when I hear beats because then it makes me want to dance. Was it drunk dance in your pants, no piano, you're right, pleasing you enter a magical garden. What do you look at first? Luminous pool with something in its depths, statue with the twinkling eye, a silver tree with golden apples, talking toadstools.

It's hard. It is because I want to hear the toadstools, I have to say. But I think I'm going straight to that tree.

I don't see those golden apples, really. OK, I got really excited in my mind.

I hate to admit this and bust myself, but every time you say, like, I'm going to walk into a thing and see my immediate thought is like, what thing's going to be sexual? And I'm going to pick that one like, oh, I want an invisibility cloak or I want I'm going to go into the thing.

There's going to be a nymph. But why is golden apples?

It's not there is never an option. But before you give me the list.

No. Some of the options picked any yet that I think are a little little more carneal like like the one that was like a black kind of inky inky and then something is like working.

That's it, though. But you think that's sexual?

I kind of do. Oh, wow. Four boxes are set before you. Which do you open a plane, jet black box with a silver spoon that you know to be the mark of Merlin, a golden box with carved feet that worn secret knowledge and unbearable temptation lurk within a plain pewter box that says I open only for the worthy a tortoise box. It sounds like something living is squeaking inside. Holy smokes, could you just read me the first one again?

Of course, a plane, jet black box with the silver rune that you know to be the mark of Merlin.

I think that one. What's Aroon I'm going to say.

Oh, OK. No, let me look, because maybe that's important. A letter of an ancient Germanic alphabet. So just. Oh, yeah. I go with that one like a black box. What smell is most appealing to you? Home, the sea, fresh parchment, a log fire, a log fire.

A trail breaks into the headmaster study order the following items in the order you would save them. Dragon pox cure that the headmaster has nearly completed student records going back a thousand years. A book of indecipherable ruins thought to have been owned by Merlin. So you have to put those in order.

OK, the kids are last the grades. I don't care at all about the grades. The records.

Yeah. And then the disease cure that we're about to have. That's number one, I'd say.

OK, so you do cure, then you do a book of indecipherable ruins and then grades.

What would you rather be trusted. Liked, praised, feared and we'd imitated. Trusted, which of the following do you have the most trouble dealing with hunger, being ignored, cold, boredom, loneliness, but being ignored and loneliness sounds very similar, right?

I think being ignored, if I'm being honest. Yeah. I hate to admit it, if you could have a superpower, which would you choose, read minds and visibility, change the past, change your appearance, talk to animals, super strength. Oh, man. Wow.

It's between super strength and invisibility. I'm going to go invisibility it again. That's more to the perfectness, right. What would you pick?

I pick read minds. Oh, God.

I don't know that that would go the way you would think it would. I know. Exactly. I know that's a painful thing to want, but I do in AA, they say what other people think about you is none of your business.

Yeah, I just it just made me think of that.

I'm not saying you're not wrong. Reminded me that I think that's a good thing to strive to believe. Which of the following would you most like to study center? More people, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, goblins. You love the word goblin, love the word goblin. Would you want to set it? And then trolls is the last.

And these things are all real in this world. Yeah, OK. Because initially I'm like, I don't want to say something that's not real.

No, no. They're all real werewolves. Oh OK.

They're pretty sexy.

OK, well the more people are sexy are they, are they oversexed because they're sirens. Oh wow.

More people are still werewolf's but yeah.

All right. Which subject to the Hogwarts would you be most interested in studying. I can help you if you don't know what some of these words are. OK, great.

I didn't know any of those words, but werewolf and vampire were. Well, I don't know. People you didn't know. I didn't know. Shit, that's a mermaid. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Like from my herbal essence commercial.

Um, but these are sirens. They call you to the sirens actually in that commercial. Yeah. There was some shipmen. Saylor's Yes. Sailors. Thank you. And we were Luray.

That's right towards the rocks. So they'll smash their trip. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

I don't want to wash their hair with Opalescence. Oh it's ok. Which subject to how much would you be most interested in studying everything. Apparition. That means going from one place to another.

Like who. Astral travel. Yeah. OK, Hexis Jinx's no secrets about the castle. No transfiguration. That's when you become an animal.

Oh shapeshifter. Yeah. OK, Broome flying home care of magical creatures.

Oh boy. Apparitions. OK, I want to zip here and there because I have wanderlust.

You and your friends need to cross a bridge guarded by a river patrol. He insists that one of you fight him before you can cross. What do you do? Confuse the troll. Have all three of you fight without telling the troll volunteer to fight, draw lots to see who fights, volunteer to fight.

Yeah, maybe even push some people out of the way so I could fight them, like push them over the bridge to kill the fight. Yeah. Kill the other two people so that I can fight it. Yeah. And then revive them so they'd be impressed. Yeah.

But yeah unfortunately that's not an option but that is the truth. You know that a fellow House member cheated on a test. You got the second highest grade in the class. Your housemate was the highest and he cheated. Professor Flitwick confronts you and asks if they were cheating. What do you do? First, tell Professor Flitwick the truth, if your classmate is willing to come in first by cheating, he deserves to be found out. You'll make up the house points your classmates lost by coming in first.

Tell Professor Flitwick to ask your classmate and tell your classmate that he won't tell the truth, you will know. Tell your classmate that if he won't tell the truth, you will lie and say you don't know. But hope he finds out somehow. If you knew someone was cheating, you wouldn't wait for Flitwick to ask you tell him before the test started lying in and hope he finds out.

OK, which path do you take? Twisting leafy path through the woods. A dark lantern lit alley, a wide, sunny, grassy path, a cobblestone street lined with ancient buildings.

The first one leaves. Which nightmare would scare you most? None of your friends or family know who you are, who fuck being trapped in a dark room with an eye peering at you through a keyhole, being caught up high with no handholds, being forced to speak in a funny voice so that everyone laughs at you.

A Having the people in my life not know me.

You're walking down the street late at night and hear a cry that you're fairly sure has a magical source. What do you do with Drawn to the Shadows, reviewing offensive and defensive spells that might be appropriate? Draw your wand and try to discover the source. Proceed with caution, keeping a hand on your still concealed wand. Draw your wand and stand your ground.

Draw my wand and stand my ground. One's not a euphemism.

No, no, no, no. It's a real thing. And you do spells with OK, a muggle approaches you and says you're a wizard. How do you react? A muggle is a non as well. I'm not sure about me. OK, but you as a mother and you're not allowed you're not supposed to tell them like you're supposed to keep it a secret that you're a wizard. Yes. OK, ask them why they think so. Agree and offer a sample of a jinx.

Agree and walk away bluffing. Express your concern and offer to call a mental hospital.

So they Mughals accuses me of being a wizard. Yeah. In my options are ask them why they think so. OK, agree. And offer a sample of a jinx. Agree and walk away bluffing. Why is that bluffing. I guess you'd be like yeah I am like make them look stupid I guess. I guess. OK, express your concern and offer to call a mental hospital.

I would bluff. OK, I have a hard time with that one, I wouldn't I wouldn't lie. Yeah, I wouldn't lie. No, you wouldn't lie. But I think you'd ask them why they think so. Like the one I want I wish was the answer was I just say, yeah, I am, but then I don't do a trick for them. I wouldn't want to do a trick for them. That was the second option. Yeah.

I don't want to then show off as one go. Yeah.

I am who I am and where you're not. No it's not like that. It's like I equate it for this. Like when you were hiding drugs. Oh.

Like you're equated to like me being in AA, which is a lot of people are ashamed to be an AA or not know it like it's not your it's not like for you it's a shameful thing.

It's like it's bad for the wizarding world if in general.

Yeah. Well, so that's that really puts two of my values in opposition to one another, which is truthfulness and loyalty. I value both. Those things are both characteristics. I value that a bluff. Then I feels like the best of both worlds. I didn't lie and I said it in a manner that hopefully I'm not exposing my tribe.

If you could pick any house to be sorted into, which would you pick Slithering Griffin? Do I have a puff raven claw?

I'll let the sorting out decide where I should be. I don't want to be in half a puff. I know. I'm sorry.

I put a stigma on it, so I guess I'd say Gryffindor. Gryffindor.

All right, let's see. I think you would be in Gryffindor. You got Gryffindor. We'll be roommates, you might belong to Griffin, to our dwell, the brave of heart, the daring nerve and chivalry set. Gryffindor is a part. Welcome to Gryffindor House, where bravery and chivalry are valued. You belong here because you have a lion's heart. You'll put your life on the line for anything, whether it be for a friend and ally or for the thrill of it.

Very little stops you from having fun, but you have good morals when it comes down to it. You choose good over evil. Hmm.

Doesn't really sound like I'm a Gryffindor based on that. But why? What part?

I'm not daring. You know, I'm not brave in that in that sense.

Well, you have this first of all, you're not in a position anatomically to be brave in the manner I'm. I am. That would just make you stupid. Well, that's true. So so I would say you're you're fearless when talking to people, confronting people, arguing with people, standing up for people. You're fearless now. You also worry when you go jogging, someone's going to kidnap you.

So, yeah, I do.

I think you're mixing up a reality with your bravery. You shouldn't be getting into fist fights with full grown men.

OK, well, what about trolls? Are they big or small, huge. Oh, geez, OK, then, definitely not. OK, well, now we know Griffin, I think if you had a super power, you'd be fearless physically. Like if I have that disease where I had so much muscle.

Well, not that persay, but just a wand. And you were good at it. And you're a strong, strong wizard powers. Oh, I see.

I think he would be value like a Hermione. Oh yeah.

She's not strong physically, but she's a Gryffindor and she's brave and she's got some pretty serious powers.

Oh yeah. She's the best she can throw now. Best wizard. Oh, she's stronger than Terence. Wizarding wise, she's the best in the school. Oh, you must you must have thought of yourself as her son. Well, I wanted to be or I'm not. I've never been the best in my school.

I wanted to be the best. My school was a girl, Sophia. She was number one in our class of five hundred red hair. You like that or don't like that? I love it, OK.

She was so, so smart and white.

And what is the driven snow, which is rare. We had a lot of Asians the rest of the next top, whatever. Oh. Oh yeah. Good for her. And what I really liked about her.

I mean, this is nothing to like nor dislike, but it was really practical, so she got in to like all the Ivy League schools and she chose to go to Georgia Tech, OK, because she got a they call it something specific there, but a full Allbright scholarship?

No, I don't even know what that means, but something similar. It just means every single thing is paid for. Oh, wow. Including like, I think living like all chowder and.

Yeah, on me on these on these embalmer's. And you sleep on Brooklynites and asleep. No holy fudge. No wonder she picked that. I know.

Was hard to turn down. That's kind of cool. That's like Pat Tillman turning down more money to go to St. Louis.

Well, I hope Sophia's doing great.

Whatever she's doing, I hope she's happy and doing well. And she'll always be the harmony for you. For me?

Yeah. OK, you know what? I always thought when I would see those movies check in with them sporadically, I didn't watch them in order or whatever.

I just thought Ron Horsely, what's Ron Weasley was so gorgeous at some point you loved I couldn't believe how gorgeous he was.

And also Hermione stayed so cute. Emma, I know this is like almost impossible to cast kids. I know. And then follow them through puberty and they stay cute like that.

When the movies first came out, there was a little too there was a little issue some people had that Hermione was too hot, too cute, because in the books she is written very clearly to be not attractive. OK, that's not what she's selling. And that even as a kid, Emma Watson is so cute. Yeah. So, so cute. And turn into a gorgeous adult. Right. But that's fine. I love Emma Watson.

This becomes a dilemma quite often in making movies and it's talked about regularly. I've been in part a lot of these conversations. And what it comes down to is, you know, there's a basically a market reality. Yeah. And then there's a authentic reality. And, you know, they do have to sell tickets to pay for the movie. So it's it's it's not e-. Exactly.

You can just go like we're going to cast everyone will know people like movies are fantasy.

People want to be a genius like Matt Damon and look like him, of course.

And that's that's just what the market said. That's why the superhero movies are so big. This aren't representative of anyone. That's so unrealistic.

I know, but at least that's supposed to be unrealistic. There are literally superheroes. So I think it depends on the type of story you're telling. And I do think we are moving more towards more real looking people and stuff.

It's just a matter of whether you can have your cake and eat it, too, like, can you do it and have it work? And if it doesn't work, there's nothing much to talk about. After that. If you cast someone no one wants to look out for two hours, then they can't just keep making movies with the person and losing thirty million dollars at a time.

Yeah, it's just there are people it's unfortunate. There are people who are, in my opinion, physically not the standard of attractive that that you end up wanting to watch for hours and hours and hours because there's something super compelling about their face. They're acting all of it for sure.

And it's definitely a leeway given to men way more than women. Yeah, like the the yeah. The margin of attractiveness and that's in quotes for women is so much more narrow than for men. Yeah.

But then there's also very encouraging things. There's a lot of different shows led by not conventional. They wouldn't have been leaders of TV shows in the eighties. Exactly. Yeah.

I think we're moving forward. Yeah. A few people have responded that they liked Luke Duke. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I'm glad people like Luke Duke, he was a great Duke boy, he's a good, good Duke boy, he was shorter as well.

OK, but people liked him.

Can I show you a picture of the two of them? You can tell me which one you would want to roll around with under your Christmas tree.

OK, here they are. Let me get a good look.

Feel free to go back at the look at other pictures if you need more data. OK. Bo is just really cute. You're going to think I'm lying, you're like you're not going to believe it, but I'm just going to tell the truth. I like the dark haired person. Oh, good. Yeah. That's great. I mean, I like Beau's body profile from what I just is gorgeous bonds.

I was so envious of his. He could fill out those wranglers, huh? If I'm being honest, neither of them are doing OK.

Let me say they're very 80s. Yeah, but look at that. Look at the playfulness of that smile. I think everything. Have you watched the show? You would have liked Bo. Maybe he is just more playful and Luke was more serious.

Got it. Wow. Wow, just just wow, wow, well, everyone can like who they like.

Yeah, and I'm glad everyone likes different things, as my father would say when he was in the car business, there's an ass for every seat. That's right. And I think that's that's a good thing to remind yourself of.

Agreed.

There's an asshole for everything you guys can like Daisy do. You can like both. You can like look. But can I can I just.

I hope I hope you're not waving the Confederate flag.

No, no. You can like the the Dubois' without embracing the Confederate flag.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. End of the year, which is not to say we're over, we've got a spectacular Christmas episode coming your way on Christmas Eve. We do.

And we have a little our yearly best of on Monday. So there's a couple more things for you. But, oh, and Thursday we have a regular episode. But this is our last Monday. Our last Monday.

And we love you. We thank you for getting us through this year. Yeah. Yeah. We really appreciate you all saved our house.

I think we'd be both in very deep, dark depression without getting to do this one hundred and four times this year. Agreed.

Well, I love you. Happy New Year. I'm excited to start a Christmas tradition with you this year.

Mickey Donald, Michael Dunn.