What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Camila Cabello, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Yes.

I'm so excited.

I am so happy you're here to anyone in the Daddy Gang that is listening to this and not watching. The Daddy Gang. Camila, the Daddy Gang. Do you want to say hi?

Oh my God. Yes. Hello, Daddy Gang. I love the It's a community aspect of it.

I love it. Would you consider your sister Daddy Gang?

Oh, 100 %. Okay, that makes me feel cozy. My sister is Daddy Gang, for sure.

I love how can I say your mom walked in here and she's like, Don't worry, I'm not going to be listening.

I know, because I could just into it. I could read your energy that you were like, Oh, her mom is here. I'm like, What do I have in here that's sexual?

I'm like, Just close your ears and pretend this isn't happening. To anyone that's listening, Camilla walked in here, and she has platinum blonde blonde hair. How did you decide to do this?

I felt like I needed a big physical change because I feel like... I don't know, my dark hair has been with me for all of my life. I feel like it was just a big part of how the public saw me, the world saw me, how I saw myself. I feel like it's just been a year of the theme has very much been play and transformation and changing and being brave. But I feel like also the music is so different, the world is so different that... I don't know, for so many reasons, I was like, I feel like a physical change needs to accompany that. And then I tried on a few different wigs.

I was going to ask because I was talking to someone like, Would I ever change my hair color? I'm like, Oh, my God. I don't know if I would, but I would do wigs before you just go for it.

I definitely think you need to do wigs because it's such a big change. But I do feel like everybody should do it. I mean, not everybody should do it, but it's a fun... I don't know. It brings out a different part of your personality. It's like, I don't know. It's like a Yolo. I don't know. Just like, fuck it. Is it okay if I Please. Should I take a sip? A wee.

Cheers. Cheers. We're drinking wine. Okay.

Everybody- I need a little bit of wine because we were talking about I don't really do stuff like this. So I definitely was a little nervous. But I'm Also, I'm really excited for my fans. I feel like they haven't seen me be a person in a while.

Okay, cheers.

Cheers.

I'm going to look over and Camilla is going to be chugging the entire thing. What? Wait, slow down. No.

Yeah, it's 1:00 PM.

Yes. For context, it's 1:00 in the afternoon, and the sun is out, and we're drinking wine.

But honestly, I haven't drink in a second. I've been working so much. I feel like I deserve... You've had a really busy schedule, too. You told me yesterday.

I was doing meetings with foils in my head. What are we doing?

We deserve this.

That's what I get excited about for these type of interviews, that you haven't done something like this in a while. No.

And years, I feel like.

And I think it's important, though, to sometimes step back. Why do you think you haven't done something in a while?

I think it was just I needed to protect myself from... I actually wouldn't even say protect myself. I think I needed to just be a human being. I needed to be a person. I needed to step away from being a public persona and just work on myself from the inside out as opposed to the outside in. I mean, I've been in the public eye since I was 15 years old. So I feel like so much of, especially the first maybe seven or eight years, I was figuring myself out at the same time as trying to process and take in what other people thought, even if I'm not necessarily reading it directly, you just I subconsciously are trying to figure out what to do with all of that. So I don't know. I think I needed some time and some space to be like, who am I? What's important to me? Not only what are my values in that sense, but also what are my hobbies? What do I like to do? What's my taste in art? What people do I like hanging out with? What people do I not like hanging out with? And I feel like that's the journey I've been on for the past few years.

And it's been really nice. And And healthy for me. I feel like I really needed to do that. Amazing.

Yeah. Let's talk about you growing up for a second.

Okay, you're like, Cheers. Cheers again. My God. To exploring childhood.

We're going to go through all the eras.

Yeah. The origin myth. Okay.

Born in Cuba.

Yeah.

You moved to Miami when you're seven. Yeah.

It's so funny because I always say six or seven. My mom is like, you have to pick an age. Right. Which was it? I don't know. I moved when I was six or seven. And when I was six or seven, and when I was six or seven, it's like, I don't want to say that.

So six or seven. Yeah. Camilla moves to Miami. Can you tell me, how did your parents explain to you that you were moving?

My mom told me we were going to Disney World. As immigrant parents do, they lie to protect us. I love my mom so much. She's not watching, so I don't have to worry about hurting her feelings on that one. Hi, mom. Hey, mom. But yeah, she said she told me we were going to Disney World, and I was really I was excited until maybe a couple of months passed, and I was like, wait a second. I'm still here, and there's no Disney World. And, yeah, it's funny. I really empathize with that age, that version of me because I can imagine that it's probably informed some parts of my personality in the sense that one day I had all my cousins and all my family around, and the next day, not to whatever, a pity sob story or whatever, but one day they were there, and then the next day, I was like, Oh, where is everybody? I actually had this song that I wrote that didn't end up making it into the album, but so many empty chairs for Christmas dinner or whatever. It was some Lyric like that. But I think that's such a visceral image that I can remember.

It's a lot of noise, and then it was just me and my mom.

Why did you guys move?

I think it was just the situation in Cuba was getting more and more difficult. There was just a ceiling as far as my mom was an architect, and even if you had a good job, there was not a lot of resources, even food, medicine, education, I don't think a lot of people know. The situation there is really... It's pretty tough, especially right now. There's not a lot of food. I have family members that have come even a month a month ago that are still coming. And they see the food that we have in the pantry, and they're like, we're just not used to this. And I think that's what's amazing, too, about Miami and the community there is I think because everybody has those common start from nothing thing, it really is like, Hey, if you don't have a job, I got this uncle, I got this cousin. You come work for me. You don't know how to do this. Well, it's fine. I'll teach you, whatever. And everybody's just like- Helping each other. Helping each other and also just helping each other improvise. And we're constantly trying to bring our family over.

I think even when you were saying the six or seven age, I think at that time- The new age, six or seven. Yeah, new age, six or seven.

I came when I was six or seven.

When you were six or seven, I'm thinking about you moving to... Having to go to a new school, moving to a new country, probably not completely speaking English.

Oh, no, not at all. At all.

How did you- No speaking. How did you make friends? What was school like?

I really made friends. It's crazy to think about. In hindsight, I made my best friends through music always. I was always My first friend that I made, her name was Giselle, and we lived in an apartment complex. She lived in the same complex as me. And we bonded over the Cheetah Girls. I wanted to be them so bad, and I I loved, like, Cinderella, like that. It's actually crazy how much I am realizing a lot of these things came to be in my life.

I was going to say you manifested this shit.

Yeah, I know. I really manifested this shit out of my fucking life. Then you were Cinderella. Yeah, I know. And I was in a girl group. But Anyway, so we would bring the CD or whatever, and we would just dance to it and pretend like we were in a girl group. And then when I was in elementary school, it was like, we would pretend to be on American Idol. Fuck, I manifested that shit, too, I guess. I'm realizing. And then we were like, I made a mini girl group with my friends, and we were called Lion Girls, Queens of the Jungle, because I love the Cheetah Girls. That's not a musician flex. It's a huge flex. You're like, That's a really good name. I'm like, God damn.

What did he sound like back then?

And I remember this one friend that I had, my best friend. I remember during the summers, we would be on the phone, and we would just be singing on the phone. Like, Oh, my God. I That rift sounds so good. Everything was honestly really tied to music.

So you knew from a young age that you loved performing? I loved...

I wouldn't even say performing because I was really, really shy. I was almost It was really reserved for my friends. And I remember my friends even say now, they're like, remember when we used to be like, sing, sing? Because I don't know if that was a thing for when it was your age. But I feel like anybody who had a good voice in school Yes. It was like, sing.

And at the time, it was in such good faith that people were trying to... No, it was so cute. But meanwhile, the person that is going to have to sing feels like, fuck all of you. I don't want to sing. So if I was to ask any of the kids that went to your school that weren't your friends, okay, Camilla, at 15 years old, is going to become a huge pop star, famous. What do you think they would have said?

There were people that were like, I didn't even know that she sang. Because I went through different phases. I think there was with some people that I was really funny and class clowny and whatever. And then for most people, I was really shy. I'm shy.

Okay, let's talk about X Factor. So I'm reading online and I'm like, wait, is this true? I'm like, You said that you went on X Factor first to just meet one direction.

This is true. I mean- No, tell me the plan.

What was the plan going in there?

I mean, honestly, I was a huge I don't know if... I'm curious if you were, too, but I was like, I was like, such a big pop culture fan. Yes. Since I was young and my friends and I really bonded over that. We didn't love fucking One Direction. We loved One Direction. We loved One Direction.

We wanted to fuck One Direction.

I mean, at that We just wanted... I wanted to just kiss them. A kiss. Just anything. But yeah, even if at an early age, I wasn't like, I want to be a singer because I think it just wasn't even a thing that I thought of. It was Bitch, how? How will this be a career? I don't have anybody that knows anybody. I'm like, In Miami, nobody fucking... The most that we had was, I don't know if you remember, when that person would come on the radio and be like, Auditions for Nickelodeon. Do you want to be the next? Selena Gomez, Justin Bieber, and all my friends, I would be like, Yes.

And it's like, There's no way, bitch. Everyone, sit down. I know. Just so you know, I was one of those girls, too, being like, Yes.

Did you audition? No, I couldn't sing. All of my friends in our audition, and they were like, You are amazing. You're only going to have to pay $15,000 to go to this acting school. And my mom was like, Yeah, yeah. Bye. Yeah. Scam. But that was in hindsight, it was always the center of my life was music and singing, and writing, and whatever. It was always my obsession. And I think One Direction or pop culture was an extension of that in a different way, in a more probably hormonal In a crushy way. Yeah, relatable. But I really was like, I need to audition to X Factor, and I need to do whatever it takes to make it to at least the point where I meet Harry. Really, all of them, but like- Harry. But really Harry. So, yeah.

For everyone else, it was always hairy. Then Zane really popped off. And I met him in person. Great guy. I was like, oh, okay. No.

And Niall is so lovely, too. He's amazing. It's Harry. It's I was like, I really, really... He was an inspiring muse for me at 15.

When you talk about a guy when you're younger that you were obsessed with, it brings you back. I had that with Justin Bieber, where you're like, Justin.

And I'm like, I want to be the one less lonely girl.

Shut up, Alex.

It's crazy how delusional you are at that age. You believe. No, you believe that you're meant to fall in love, that they don't know that you are the girl for them. They don't know it. But once they do, there will be no stopping that train. It's crazy how delusional you are at that age.

Do you ever do this? I remember I'd be at concerts, and I'm like, If he just locks his eyes.

Oh, no, me too. Me too. I'd be like, I remember I remember going to the concert being like, I have to look incredible. Because for some reason, I thought me at 15 years old with my insanely terrible side bang, and that he would lock up, and then he would know for some It's crazy. I still have some of that delusion left in me now.

I think it's good delusion, though, right?

It's fun. It keeps things spicy. It does.

On your toes.

Oh, yeah, 100 %.

Just wanting things you can't have.

No, delusion is a necessary ingredient, I think, to my I'm happy with my happiness. But I definitely had way more at 15. I definitely was like, once he sees me, he's dumping Kendall Jenner. He will know. He won't even know what hit him.

When our eyes lock, It's like, game over, baby. Wifey. Okay.

And then I look pictures of myself at that age, and I'm like, oh, my God. I look like such a baby.

It was never going to happen. Never going to happen. But you join Fifth Harmony, and obviously, you don't join One Direction, although you probably wanted to be the one girl in the group.

But I joined what felt to me at that time. I was like, oh, my God. Yes.

This is happening to me now. No, that's actually so crazy. You were becoming the female version of the new One Direction.

Yeah. I remember when When we were at X Factor and they started calling our names up, I was like, I know this fucking story. I have seen it.

Obviously, there was a lot of drama when you walked away from the group. And now that time has passed and you look back at everything, how do you feel about how everything went down?

I feel like I can really focus on and remember the really joyful times. I grew a lot in that group. I remember waking up on tour and going to my hotel room at 7:00 AM and going to my garage, man, and writing songs because I didn't want to do it while everybody was there. And I had such a passion for that turned into writing. At first, I was like, Oh, maybe I want to write for other people. But then it turned into like, no, actually, I want to sing these songs by myself. And I started just distancing myself from I feel like the group vision. And it felt like they were still really passionate and into that. And so I just was I'm not happy here anymore. It doesn't feel aligned.

I think also that's so okay. And I think there's two parts of it. One, people can look back and be heartbroken that something breaks up so understandable, similar to One Direction.

Of course, it is. Oh, my God. Yeah, it is.

It's necessary to grow.

It's like any breakup. Like, yeah, it sucks. Yes.

Which we're going to get into. Okay.

So I'm thinking back, you join this group at 15, And I'm thinking about you were in it for four years.

That's basically a high school experience. Oh, my God. Yes, it is. Crazy. You're a celebrity at such a young age. You're touring. You're busy. Did you have time to date? How did you meet guys? What was the vibe?

When I was 15 to 19, it was guys that... Not a lot, a few. And it was very like we saw each other maybe once or twice a year. I really started dating and whatever, probably when I was 20. Okay. Yeah. Because before that, it was just the group was all-encompassing. That was your relationship. It was everything. That was my relationship.

I feel like everyone remembers their first love. I remember mine. I feel like you can never be the same after it because it teaches you so much, and you experience so many first with this person. What comes to your mind when you think of your first love?

My first love. My first love was... I feel like I've had a few, maybe a couple great loves. Okay. How about you?

I think I've had a couple as well. I think it's interesting because now that I'm engaged, I look back on it and- You're like, that wasn't. Well, it's interesting. It's different. And I talk about this with Matt all the time, and I'm so happy that we have a healthy enough relationship to talk about exes and not be insecure about it, which I used to. I would have been insecure in past relationships to talk about exes. But when I think about being in love, I definitely can pinpoint the first person I was in love with that I met when I was 16. And it was just this all-encompassing-Oh, God.

Yeah, me too. Just like, wrecks you. Me too. And 17 was probably my first-Yup. Really in love. I don't know. It's like there's so many different connotations to in love, though, because sometimes it's like, who was I happiest with? Or who made me the most devastated? And sometimes it's like, God, what even is the right definition of in love? Because there were people that... There was one person that made me the happiest, and there was the other person that made me the most sick and crazy. And I don't know what is the definition of what's the most in love. It's a good point.

I feel like when I look back, I agree with you. All of my loves are different, but it's also just so fucking weird because you are so different. And I think of what I was giving maybe in my first love. I was definitely not someone bringing health and wellness to the relationship. Oh, my God. It was like fighting and writing letters. And it was like that notebook type of love where it's so fucking hard and devastating. You're just like, fuck my life. But when you leave those type of relationships, I feel like it leaves the biggest lasting memory for a while because it was so hard and you thought so much and it was so loving but then difficult that you can romanticize it once you leave. Where the people that left you happy, and if it was more stable, I have found it was easier to move on from just because I can put it in a corner of my brain and be like, That was so great, but I know it wasn't meant to be. I don't know if that makes sense?

No, totally. I mean, I think there is a part of me that still... It It depends what mood I'm in. Sometimes I really want peace and happiness, and other times I still miss and love that chaotic, sickening feeling. And I don't know what that is. I have to explore it further in therapy. But there is something so addictive about that. And it's interesting because it's the classic nervous system quote, whatever. I mean, actually, I don't know why I said classic because it's not a classic. Classic.

It's relatable.

You know that quote? It's like, Find someone that's good for your nervous system. A lot of the times, the people that do make you feel fucking sick with love are not good for your nervous system. But it's addictive. But it feels so good and terrible at the same time.

Because when it's good, it's so fucking good.

Because when it's good, it's like, you could cut my leg off today. I will be smiling all teeth. But when it's bad, and I think this is what's so interesting, when it is bad, and I think back to those type of relationships, there's something that makes you feel even more romantic about it because it's like we're fighting, we're working.

Yeah, totally. It is convoluted. And there are some relationships that take a lot of work to then get to be good, or there are just a lot of relationships that just shouldn't fucking work. But we put so much into them because it is addicting.

And it really changes, I feel like, as you age. I feel like when I was younger, so many relationships were my projection of people in my head. And I really romanticized the shit out of them. And I really took a little thing that they said, and I just ran with that. But now I find that it's the people that you meet that are really exciting and you have real chemistry with. It's really rare and hard to find.

It is so fucking hard to find. I find the first couple hangouts, you will be able to just gage if it's there, because I'm not someone that's as much of a slow burn type of person.

I am not a slow burn. And what sucks is that I hear that that's the healthiest thing. I've heard a podcast where people are like, if you like this person, and if you're curious, just go on a second date. And I'm just the person that's like, if I am not going to sleep wanting to have you inside me. I get it. Honestly, that's extreme. Maybe I'm not that. But if I don't leave the date and I'm like, wow, it's really hard for me to have that slow burn approach. But I'm trying to be more like that. I think it's just- I agree.

I also just want to validate you because it's not extreme what you just said. I think when I've left first date, you want to... I know it sounds fucking crazy, but this is a Girls, Girl podcast, so everyone, Girl, will get it. You leave and you can literally quickly go through picturing yourself in positions with them and places will not Well, positions physically and places in life, and just quickly the next year with them, and you're picturing the next date and your sexual chemistry. It's disgusting. You can envision it. And then if I can't with someone, it's hard to go on the second date.

I know. But a lot of people say you should. Fuck us. Yeah, I know.

You're like, God damn it. It's interesting.

But I love it. I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What is single Camilla like? What is single Camila like? Okay.

I try to really prioritize that part of my life. Okay. Because it just makes me feel It's just so fun. I honestly love being single. I love it. But I also I've been in relationships for a lot of my... Since I started dating, since I started dating. Since I started dating when I was 20, I was in long term relationships a lot. So it feels fun to just get to know people and talk and see what happens. Yeah.

Those beginning stages are like- beginning stage also.

Also my weakness because I love a beginning stage. It's so fun.

It's so good. I think why I had such a hard time getting into serious relationships for a while because the thrill and the excitement and the unknown is so fun. And then once it becomes predictable, I used to be like, bye. I feel that. But when you get older again, you start to realize there can be a balance.

And you start to realize also there are other things that are important. You can go deeper, and that's surprising. And at the end of the day, it's like we're people that are... I really believe we're never just one person. We are constantly changing. Matt could be a different person in two years. He will be a new person. And so there's always something new. Yeah, that's a good point. But I do feel like I'm like... I think also because I was just in a heavy writing process, writing stage. It's really experience. I'm just so hungry for experiences. The more experiences- The better. The better.

Okay, so one experience you had recently that we all saw online was you were on a vacation with Drake.

Oh, gosh. Well, you know what?

I have to ask. I can't not ask.

Yeah, of course.

Have you guys ever been a thing?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't say straight up vacation.

Okay.

It was vacation plus some work. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Man, I love him.

We all love that man.

We all love him, right?

The Internet really loved him recently. Yeah.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Okay, so have you ever had... Can we confirm or no?

Have I ever had what?

Like a little thing with Drake.

A beautiful artistic collaboration with him? Yes. I may or may not have.

What is it like going on vacation with Drake?

Okay, first of all, we did not go on vacation. This was like a homie, like friends trip. Okay, so let me break this down.

Rewind. Okay? Rewind.

So basically, Drake was a big... Love him.

Love him.

Love him as an artist, for real. Me, too. Love him, right? Yes. He's the best. Yes. Who the goat? I love him so much, and I really listen to him a lot during my writing process, during my album. And I really felt like he would like my album.

Love. For real. Confidence. Fucking love it.

And so I DMed him, and I was like, Hey, I really want to play. I was like, You know what? I'm just going to put it out there. That's fucking baller. We got to make shit happen. You got to make shit happen. We got to make shit happen. So I DMed him, and I was like, I would love to play you in my album. I honestly feel like you would really love it because I listen to him a lot, and I just feel like we're... I really do feel like musically, in a lot of ways, we like the same things. And I feel... Yeah. So we hung out. I played in my album.

What did he say?

He loved it. Okay. And I thought that he would. And I was so excited. It was also such a surreal moment for me to play Drake, my songs. That's another one of those things that you're just like, wow, I would have never expected that this would happen.

It's a dream.

It's a It's a dream. It's a dream. I remember being there and being like, wow, this is so fucking sick. And he's so generous and so kind. But anyway, so I didn't just go on vacation. It was like a vacation, like work thing. But honestly, I will say I love him, and that has been such a fun part about this whole experience. This has been the most... It's been a really insular process in terms of me taking it back to basics in terms of me really focusing on my craft of writing or whatever. But at the same time, literally, I could chug this whole thing right now. But like, huge toast to that. And he's amazing, and I love him.

Let's do a toast to Drake.

Toast to Drake, to Champagne Papy.

God bless. We all love you.

God bless. We really do love you.

I love you. Okay, so you are single. So what is the approach to dating? Are you looking for something serious? Are you going on dates? What is happening?

As far as looking for something serious, I don't I have phases. Maybe two weeks ago, I'm like, oh, my God. I want to really have something real with someone. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready for something real again. And then I am talking and meeting someone new. And I'm like, oh, my God, I love this. This is so fun. I don't want anything serious right now. So it really is different phases. I really think I'm like, there's so much going on right now that If it was somebody serious, I would really have to connect with them on a really deep level, which I always hope it is. I'm a hopeless romantic at heart. I love my fun, but I'm a hopeless romantic for sure. And I literally, if I have a great kiss with somebody, I'm like, I would die for you. Right.

We're in love.

Oh, yeah. 100 %.

Are you someone that will have a roster? What's the situation? Are you good at handling multiple men at once?

I do like a little bit, not too much, but just a little bit of a There's maybe a few vibes. There's a few vibes. I think it's good to have that. I think there's a different level of... For some people, roster is like... The intimacy is like, Maybe sleeping with all them. That's too much for me. It's more like, vibes and talking, hanging out, whatever. But I can't be serious, at least at this point, with more than one person.

I completely agree. I feel like when you're in the single stage, it's helpful to just pick around and just keep a couple of people in the arena just to be like, yeah.

That's where I am. Like, what's your vibe?

What's your vibe? Right. And then once one drops off, you can pick up a new one. Yeah. But it's fun. You're my new favorite. Yes. And I think as busy as you are, I get that. It's like, unless the person is going to be like, holy fucking shit, this is like, late night till 3:00 AM, you're fucking talking.

Exactly. If it's late night till 3:00 AM and we have this insane connection and I'm like, oh, you're like, it's The saving father of my children vibe. I will fly anywhere. You come, whatever. Then I will do that. But if it's like, I liked him and he was cute, and that was cute, then it's like, I'll see you when I see you.

Wait, have you ever flown I'm the guy somewhere.

Only in relationship- Relationships. Vibes. Okay. No. I haven't flown them. Got it. They fly to- Not at the front of the plane. No, I haven't piloted them to my hotel room. But I mean, They have flown to me, but I haven't been like, Let me just get you a flight. Yeah, I'm not- Daddy energy.

Oh my God. Yeah, I know. What gives you the ick?

To be honest, one of the things that would give me the ick is I don't really want to be with a guy. I don't want to be on my daddy shit.

Have a little bit of that masculine energy, take control. Especially because you're in control all fucking day with your career.

And that's a big psychological thing. Do Do you feel like that, too?

I was going to say, I want, for sure, respect. But if I'm like, I am literally running the ship here.

No, same. If I'm making decisions all day and I have to be on my fucking whatever- Daddy shit. On an ironic daddy Daddy, boss girl shit. You better come correct when it's time and let me just not think about anything. I want you to... I want to let go and surrender.

What is your philosophy Are we around ghosting? Are we ghosting people?

No, I don't like that. I actually had a conversation with my friends the other day because I went on a date with this guy. Okay. One date.

How did it go?

Not great. Okay. I didn't like it. And I went on a date with this guy, and he was texting me, and I asked my friends. I was like, Hey, guys, if I don't answer, is this ghosting?

Do you go out in public with this person? Yeah.

Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. But they're not like... He wasn't famous.

Why did it not go well?

It was just so boring. There was no spark. No. I was just like, I was just like, I was just like, I was just like, I was just like, I was just like, I was just like, I was just thinking about- Every other ex. I was just not thinking.

That can't happen. That's the fucking worst when you're like- Or just the number one on the roster. You're like, he's like, I'm real good right now.

I'm just thinking about number one. And you're like, get out.

Just leave.

Yeah.

But you went through the whole fucking date.

I honestly... This is actually crazy. So I I was hiding my hair. Were you wearing a beanie? I was wearing a black wig. No, did- I was just like, my head really hurts.

Camilla, you said that you had a headache. Did he know you were wearing a wig? I told him. You're like, Babe, the wig's really pulling. I got to go.

I was like, I got to go.

What did he say?

He was like, Yeah, of course. Let's go.

You're like, No, but alone.

Yeah, I I feel bad. I really hope he doesn't see this.

He won't. There's no way. I don't think he'll see this. But the thing is this, sometimes in life, you got to just feel the vibe.

And you know what? Let me rephrase this. Just in case.

Yeah, just in case. Just in case.

It wasn't that it was boring. I just was like, my heart wasn't in it.

It wasn't in it.

I think that's okay. My heart was with someone else.

Listen, I think that's fine to say. And I think we, especially as women, need to get more comfortable because how many fucking times are men like, nah, she ain't hot enough. Or like, No, she's not that. Totally. You just didn't vibe with it.

It wasn't it.

That doesn't mean you got an amazing person.

It wasn't a fit. But I am sensitive about ghosting because I feel like you have to be kind to people. However, I didn't Text him back. Because I was like, I don't know. Honestly, and if somebody were to say right now, Hey... And my friend, actually, they gave me good advice. They were like, Don't text him back. If he keeps texting you, then Then say, Hey, honestly, it really wasn't a fit, but it was so nice to meet you. Wish you well. But he didn't keep texting, so I was like, I'll leave it. But if things had gone on further, then I'm not a fan of the ghosting thing. I just feel like it's like, why hurt people? Just be nice. Don't lead them on. I agree.

And I also, just to clarify for your own conscience as we're drinking our wine, that's not ghosting. I don't think so either. He sent you one text, you didn't respond. And I love a guy that's self-aware enough to be like, got it. To stop. Check it.

A hundred %. She got into it. And also, it's like, it's one date.

We didn't have three months together. A hundred %. That's crazy.

When people do that, if I was with somebody, no. And they ghosted me after we were intimate or after we whatever, I would be like, you're just like, that's a very unkind thing to do. And I wouldn't want to be with somebody like that anyway.

What is the biggest red flag that you've ever willingly ignored? So many.

I mean, right? So many. I don't know. You start. Give me an idea.

I would say, I think when I look back at past relationships, something that comes up for me is feeling insecure around him.

Big.

You should never feel like, oh, my God, I don't want him to see me in the morning if I have a breakout or do I look good enough for this date, or if I'm on the date, is he looking at other women? When you're with the right person, you would never I think that way. And I think that is something I would ignore in this one relationship I had where I was constantly feeling like I wasn't good enough. And it's like, why? I am. Yeah.

I think that's a big red flag is how you feel. That's just such a big temperature check in relationships. I've been in a relationship before where I'm like, if I am miserable for this long, there is just something off. Every time I've been like, it's me, it's me, it's me. It's me, oh, my God, oh, my God. It's my, what is it? What am I? Oh, Oh, my God, blah, blah, blah. But a lot of the times, it's just not right. I agree. It's not right. It's like, if I feel so much better when I'm not with you, and then when I'm with you, I feel miserable and overth and anxious every time, then we are just not right. And then I think you keep going because you have this hope or some ideal of what the relationship is. We can work on it. We can this, we can this, we can that. Sometimes it's like, you have It's a temperature check. Yeah, just like, it's not right. It's not right.

Have you ever been cheated on? I actually...

I'm lucky to say I have not been cheated on.

It's amazing. I know.

That's amazing. Maybe... I really don't think this counts, but I was 17 talking to a guy, but I don't think that counts.

Have you ever had someone go through your phone? That's a yes. How did you see them checking it?

I had deleted some text. Right. And they were like, Why did you delete this? Text message history. Got it. With another person. And I was like, My phone deletes things. I was young and- You You were being a little shady.

I was being a little shady. And then they caught you. But that's where it's so fucked because you're like, Who's in the wrong? And then it's the meme of Spider-Man where it's like...

I was definitely in the wrong. Okay.

For sure. But I love that. My phone deletes things.

Oh, that's terrible.

That's such It's a bad lie. It's amazing.

I was like, I've never been... To this day, I don't think I've ever been so scared in my life. I was like, my phone just deletes messages, like whole complete message. I don't know. It's crazy. But I honestly, I broke up with him literally three days after that. Okay, that's good.

That's good.

But shit happens. Life happens. It happens.

Okay, we're going to play rapid fire. If you had to trade lives with any celebrity, who would it be?

I honestly would say no one.

Really?

I like my life. Love. What about you?

I don't know why this just came up for me. I don't know if it's the wine. Yeah, go. But I was going to say maybe Meryl Streep.

What are you saying? I think I would- I mean, it would be amazing to be one of the best actresses in the fucking world. Totally.

I think it's more because I think if I had to pick a celebrity, I would want someone that's not in the public eye and chooses to not... She's never been paparazzi. She's never been. So Meryl Streep. Okay, we're moving on.

No, that's a good one. Okay.

Have you ever had a lie to your friends about a guy you were seeing? Yeah.

Oh, my God. All the time. Not all the time, but I love this TikTok that I see. It's like your friend is like, you show them a terrible text, and it's like, And How did you respond to him? And you're like, My friends are always like... My friends are cold as fuck. Cold-hearted.

Those are good friends sometimes, though. They're like, How could you text him back?

Don't text him. Don't do that emoji. I'm like, Oh, my God. I didn't know you guys were mean.

But it's good. They're keeping you in line.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Because I'm the opposite. I'm a dumb ass.

I get it.

I'm an idiot.

I was just going with it. What is your biggest insecurity My biggest insecurity, internal, external, whatever.

Whatever. This is just probably the wine, too. And I saw this Jody Foster interview. I was reading it yesterday. Congrats on your New York Times article, by the way. Oh, my God. Thank you. I didn't read it because I didn't want to make myself nervous before the interview. But I love the New York Times, and I was like, Oh, my God. There she is. But I saw this one New York Times or New York or whatever. It was Jody Foster interview, and she was like, For somebody who values privacy so much, I really want to be understood. And that really resonated with me. I feel like my insecurity is, I don't know, some childhood thing of being like, I don't care if people get me. I don't care if people whatever. I'm just going to be myself. But at the same time, really wanting people to understand me and not dislike me or whatever. So I don't really know. I think it's a general insecurity of probably being seen and then not loved or whatever.

I think that is one of the most relatable feelings. I think we all can try to put up a front of, I don't care about the mean comments or things like that. Totally.

I try to not care, but- We care.

At the same time, it's like, yeah, I really- We're humans.

I want love from people.

And you want people to understand you because I can tell you have such a good heart that it's a the whole balance of people seeing things online. And then you're like, I can't run to defend myself every moment. No, not at all. But it is tough when you are being perceived in a way that you're like, That's not accurate. That's infuriating.

It is. There's a lot of surrender. You have to really let go.

If If you're spicing it up with linger, what color are you wearing?

I think black.

Morning sex or night sex?

I honestly love morning sex. I like both, but there's... And my favorite is actually, I I love an afternoon vibe because it feels so European. It feels so like you're not working, and it feels so primal in a way. I don't have to work. Right. The sun's out. Let's just eat fruit and I love you.

It's so good. If you're going home with someone, are you going back to his or is he coming to yours?

I prefer him coming back to mine, for sure.

Biggest turn off in the bedroom.

I don't like silence and just no passion. Yes.

I need like- Going through the motions.

I hate going through the motions. I'm like, why are we even doing this?

Why are we making eye contact? Why aren't we making out?

Why are you saying things to me? You know what I mean? Yes, I got it. Yeah. To me, I'm like, I would rather not have this.

Favorite sex position.

It depends on the vibe, and it depends on the energy of whatever's happening in that moment. There's in love, I got an X, and then there's freaky vibes. Yes.

I get it.

I get what you're saying. So I think different strokes for different times. I get it. Okay. Literally.

I got to ask what your opinion is on getting back with an X. I got to ask what your opinion is on getting back with an ex.

I'm personally, I think it's a known, I'm a fan. I I support it. Supported in the past.

Cheers.

Cheers. What about you?

I think it's so...

I personally think it's helpful. It's helpful because I am not a person. You can't forbid things from me because I will want to do it more. Yes. If I tell myself, some of my friends are really good at that. They're like, well, not going to text him because blah, blah, blah. I'm not like that. I'm like, if I want to text him, I'm going to text him.

I agree. I completely agree. I've gotten back with X's. Even if I know it's not going to work, sometimes you need that closure. You need it.

You need to know that it's not going to work.

And it needs to be on your terms.

And then you need to be over it. And you need to be like, I did it. And I know. I know. I know. And I know.

Okay, so I have to just say it.

Yes, sure.

Fuck it. Okay, so it looked to the world like you and your ex, S hawn Mendes, dabbled with the idea of getting back together about a year ago. What was going on?

I think it's what we were just talking about. You were just like, Yeah. And it's crazy because I'm impulsive in that way, I would say. I feel like if I feel it, I say it, and I'm not really good at not doing that, like I said, because then the worst place for it to live in is my mind. Totally. And then I'm Ryan Gossing in the notebook building a house for this person. So I would rather say it and see what happens and then wake up the next day and find out that it's been heavily documented. I opted for It was a great route. But it is what it is. It was a great route. It was a fun time. It was a fun moment. And I will always care about him and love him. He's such a good person. And I'm lucky because some people have exes that are awful. And he is not a really kind, good person.

When you rekindle something with an ex, I've done it myself. I find, and I don't know if this is for you, I find the second breakup is always a little bit easier than the first initial because it's already been over. Then you We had to rekindle again. How did you guys make this huge decision to be like, Okay, we're moving on?

I think it was just like... It wasn't even a decision. I think you just are like, Yeah, this doesn't really... It's It's not a fit. It doesn't feel right. And I think, luckily, I was in a place in my life where it took me less time to realize that. It took us both less time to be like, This doesn't feel right. And we don't really need to try so hard to make it work. It's all good. This is not feeling good. Let's be friends. I love you. It's all good. Let's move on. You go do your thing. You go do mine. Become the person that you're becoming. And I'll root for you. And that's it.

Getting back with an ex for a moment, it is sometimes helpful because it makes the first thing less hurtful because you relived it for a second. You're like, check. Still not right. We can now fade off and be like, it wasn't what we wanted. And that's okay. Yeah.

And I think the worst thing that you can live with is a what if or a doubt.

What is your take on the idea of right person, wrong time?

Wow, that's a great question. I don't think that there is such thing. I feel like if it's the wrong time, it's not right. It doesn't matter. I think right person or wrong time is still a way of keeping yourself tied to the person. And it's almost like, right job, wrong time. It's the wrong job.

So true.

You know? So true.

When you say it like that, you know?

You're right. There's just no such thing. I feel like if it's the wrong time and that makes it a person that's... I love just the simplicity of it sounds so clinical and non-romantic, but it's just not a fit.

When I met Matt, I was like, this isn't the right time. I really wasn't looking for a relationship, and I really didn't want a relationship when I met Matt. I was like, fuck. But we made it work because he was the right person.

There's no such thing. Because there's no such... I feel like there's no such thing, really. I mean, maybe there is such thing as... I mean, maybe wrong time could be classified as long distance or you're going away or whatever. But then And in that case, it's not right. Right.

If it's right person, you will find a way to make it work.

Yes, you will. Yeah. A hundred %.

What do you personally think is the most difficult aspect from past experience of going through a breakup?

I think it's a long term breakup. I think it's really just the where does the love go vibe. You have so much care and love for this person. It really does feel... Luckily, up to this point in my life, I haven't experienced loss, real loss. But it feels like loss, but that person is just still out there, and it takes your own restraint, reminding yourself why it's not the right thing to keep you away from texting that person or whatever. And also it feels very out of your control because sometimes it's like, I wanted it to be this person so bad. I wanted it to be, but it's not. And that feels really hard to let go, to be like, I really wanted this to be it. But the fact that it's not that I can't make this person who I wanted them to be, it's tough. It's really tough. It really feels like you can't always get what you want.

I do love how you said that, though. It's so true of where does love go? When I'm thinking of what would my answer have been, I'm similar where you're like, how did we love each other so much? And now it's not going to work. And we know the reasons it's not working. But we loved each other so much. How do we just float away from each other? And that's it.

Where does the energy go? I find it was so funny after there's been breakups where after I tell my best friends, I'm like, can I just hold your hand more and be more touchy with you because that's a big love language for me, as you've probably seen in videos is like, touch, physical touch. And even the touch starvation after. You know what I mean? It is really hard. Totally. I'm like, can we just hold a hand?

That's when it gets tricky when you go through a breakup of like, do I miss him or do I miss the things that came with having someone that I was in love with? And that's really hard to discern of like, I miss my a best friend. I miss someone that's going to hold me and hold my hand.

And it's usually that, I think, for me in the past. I agree. And that's where you really have to be like, I didn't get what I wanted. I really wanted this person to be this. I really wanted us to be this. But it's not. Yeah, it's not.

For all the girls listening, I'm curious if you have any advice. I've been through it. I think social media makes it so much fucking worse. How do you handle from past shit of when you know you and and her ex are moving on at different paces? How the fuck- Oh my God, it's the worst. I'm like, I be out here fucking stalking bitches. It's torturing. It's just like, how do you handle it? I don't even know if you have advice.

I really think it's like, I have been an absolute psycho. I love you for admitting that because aren't we all? And honestly, even worse when I was younger. When I was younger, I would be dating a guy and stalking his ex. Camilla. I'd be like, What is wrong with me?

Everyone raise their hand in this I still honestly, I definitely...

We all do it. I've been in a while since I've been in a long term relationship. But God, I was like, he's telling me he loves me. And meanwhile, I'm torturing myself over somebody he's not even with anymore. It's so crazy. It's so hard. The torture. I think my advice would be, I've gotten better at this is I'm a big mindfulness, Buddhist Practitioner person. Not practitioner person. That sounds so fucking weird. You're a practitioner. I know. Like, what? But I think self-compassion is really important when it comes to that stuff. It's like, I could do something that's going to really hurt me, or I can put the phone down. It's so fucking hard. It's really hard, but you almost have to do it out of kindness for yourself.

And I think giving ourselves grace. It is normal to want be interested in that shit. I think it's so annoying when people are like, oh, my God, you stalk your ex. It's like, oh, fuck you.

It's literally, fuck you.

It's like, if this person was in your bed, you used to have sex, you were intimate, you were in love. Of course, there's moments where you're eating a French fry one day and you're like, oh, what is he up to? It's like, it's natural. Just like you're wondering what fucking kids from middle school are up to and you go on Facebook to look it up. Oh, my God.

Also, the people that don't admit that, I'm like, oh, please. You're not fun to talk to. Where is your You're fucked up human side?

We're crazy. We're crazy. Let us be crazy. Breakup sex. Are you a proponent? Has it helped you in the past? Does it ruin things for you?

So what does breakup sex mean?

You're like, This is over. Oh. And then you do it one more time. Yeah, of course. And have you found it makes it more messy, or is it more like, okay, bye?

I feel like if you're wanting to have breakup sex, you're probably going to hit each other up next week. There's still something there. And like I said, I'm sorry, I'm a proponent. I don't believe in the forbidden fruit. If you want it, do it. Date until you hate them vibe. I don't actually hate anybody. But I'm saying, Do it until it's out of your system. And my friends really don't agree with this. They're like, you're an idiot, and we hate you, and don't ask me for advice anymore because I'm sick of you. But it's been helpful for me. And And I also think the hard part is sometimes you do waste some time in that way. You are still entertaining something, and maybe there could be somebody out there that's better.

I think the point to close out the dating chapter is like, every Everybody that's listening, don't feel shame if you go back to an ex. No. But protect yourself in those moments of just knowing what... There could be an end date, and just be okay with that. And maybe there's not an end date. Maybe you guys are going to stay together forever.

I think it's just- And know why. Know why you still keep going back. Is it the sex? Is it the chemistry?

Is it- The emotional connection.

Is it your self-esteem? Is it whatever? Because I think one thing that I feel like I'm always trying to do, I'm not trying to... Whatever. The risk of sounding... I'm not trying to sound preachy. I feel like always doing the inner work and inner questioning of why am I doing? Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? And if you still want to do it, do it. Totally. But just know why you're doing it. Why you're doing it. What you're getting out of it.

Your new music is on the way, which everyone is freaking out about. Did you hear it? I did. So I was at the hairdress, and I'm like, Where do I listen to this? And I'm holding it up to my ear. And I'm listening also like me I'm obviously interviewing you. I was trying to listen to the lyrics. I'm like, What is she trying to say?

Which I love, by the way, which I love. It's so good. Thank you.

It's everything because it's so fucking raw and it's so fucking real. And I wanted to ask you, what has it meant to you in the writing process and everything. Yeah.

Well, I think this is my... I love this quote by this poet, Reina Maria Rilke, that's like, Live your questions. Have you ever heard of that?

Wait, no.

I love that. I read this book. It was actually in COVID time, and it's called Letters to a young poet. And there's this poet that's asking him, he has so many questions, and I think he's probably in his 20s. And he's like, the one advice I can give you is to live your questions. And I feel like this was my Live My Questions album, Live My Questions And it's really sitting in the discomfort of things and realizing there's not going to be a neat in a box answer. It's like, I feel strong in these ways, weak in this ways. And there's no real clear answer here. But yeah, the album process has been such a journey. And it started off with me really having that intention of going back to how it started for me, which is just sitting with myself and really getting back to that first passion of songwriting and nerding out over references and artists and poetry and whatever and really tapping into that and then finding the collaborators that would really help me. I worked with this amazing producer named Pablo Elgincho, and he really championed that for me. And whenever I would get nervous or doubtful about, should we bring any other co-writers in the or whatever, he'd be like, No, this sounds like you got this and we got this, and we can do it.

And he brought in Jasper Harris, and three of us made this whole project. I'm excited for you to hear the whole album because it really is almost turned into this very solidified songwriter voice for me that became a persona in a world. Oh, wow. Which is the first time I've really done that with an album where it has its own color palette and mood, and esthetic and Sonic vibe. It became its own world. And then obviously, the people that I'm a huge fan of. There were so many artists that came in, and it's just been so fun and amazing.

I'm so excited for you because when I just read some of the lyrics, it feels like we're actually just inside your brain, like reading your diary almost in a way. Thank you. And And I love how so much of it felt, you're right, of this back and forth of where your brain goes when you're in the middle of situations. And it felt so real. And when I was reading it, I'm like, oh, my God, I've experienced this in my life before, too. It was very relatable. But the way that you were able to articulate it was just fabulous. And I think so many women, specifically, I think are going to be like, you're speaking from my experience. Yes, I've loved this. And it's really cool.

It's also really cool because the album, esthetically, and even so many of the themes in terms of it. It's like, there's a lot of lip gloss and nails and whatever. It's very hyper femme, which is so fun because it's like, I feel like I'm really tapping into the fun of the feminine experience and sensuality and even the things that we do, all those different...

The hair. The hair. No, it's so good. I'm so excited personally to hear the whole thing, but I'm excited. I can't wait. Because I think people, the beauty of conversations like this is I haven't really seen you like this online. We're like, you really are our girlfriend. I feel like we're all friends with you now, and I get you. You just feel like someone that is very relatable.

That's why I wanted to do this podcast, too, because I feel like it's very For the Girls, and I feel like my album is very For the Girls. And also, so much of it is so much of me And who I am is inspired by my friends. You know what I mean? That dynamic and drinking wine and talking about whatever the worst sex you've ever had. That's life. That is life. That's the best part of life.

What message do you hope fans take away from this album when it comes out?

That's a great question. I really think it's live your questions. And I would add a bonus to that is I think it's really embracing the playfulness of it, the playfulness of being alive, of being a girl. And I think that's honestly why so much of this album has themes, I don't know, sex or whatever, is because It's playful.

It's playful and it's hot.

It's hot. And being hot is fun. Yeah.

Some of the lyrics I was like, oh, Camilla.

Well, I think it's just this spirit of, I think, freedom and just ownership and really just owning your fucking life. And I don't know, just fucking being free and being you.

I am so excited for you. The Daddy Gang will support you the minute this comes out. Oh, Daddy Gang. I can't thank you enough for sitting down. I know that you don't do this often, and you're a fucking pro. I could do this with you all day.

Well, me too. And I knew that it would happen like that because I was listening to your stuff and I was like, Oh, this is a girl that I would be friends with. But thank you for real for making me feel so comfortable. You're so kind. I love you. And I love this one. And I love you, too.

Thank you so much. You're the best. Thank you.