What is up, daddy?

Gang?

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper.

With call her daddy.

Are we ready? When is the last time you did an interview? Oh, my God.

Not ever. Face to face? I don't think I've ever done an interview face to face.

Okay, well, let's start. Emma Chamberlain.

Hi, Alex. Coopie.

Welcome to call her daddy Coopie. Oh, my God. We're on, like, nickname terms. Emma, welcome to caller daddy.

Thank you so much.

So my first question for you is, you don't do interviews.

Yeah.

Why are you here?

Okay, well, number one, Alex.

Yes.

I'm a big fan. Like, I've been a big fan of you forever. I don't know how, like, I wish I knew my discovery story of you. The clock. Clock.

Honestly, don't drag me like that.

I did. Let me tell you. I found you when things were very sexual, and I learned a lot.

Wow.

Yeah.

That makes me so happy.

Yeah. So, like, that's how I found you. I think I was really just, like, looking for advice on how to be crazy, but then, like, in turn, I fell in love with you.

Oh, my God. So we're just. This is a big love fest.

It's such a story how we're in.

Love with each other.

I know.

Quickly to give people context that are listening of our story. I was thinking about this the other day. So Emma and I have. We're, like, represented by the same agency. And this was, like, right when I started the show, like, the single father era of taking the show on by myself. And I was starting to have guests on. And I remember my agent was like, do you want to meet with Emma Chamberlain? And I'm like, absolutely sure. We get on Zoom, and we zoomed for, like, an hour and a half, and we wouldn't shut the fuck up. And we won't talk about what we were talking about because it was like everything just kept being like, this is off the record. This is off the record. This is off the record. Emma. Don't tell her that. I'm like, I'm not gonna go say anything, but. So we just start talking. But it was a weird moment because I think my brand was still very sexual.

Yeah.

So we said we were gonna potentially have, like, a collaboration. You were gonna come on. It never ended up happening. It just wasn't the right time. Then the next time we saw each other was New York fashion week.

I think that's what really, like, I was like, I don't even care what we talk about. Like, I need to do this because we just clicked so well, and we just, like, talked about so much random shit and, like, we just clicked so well. Yeah, we were.

It was kind of funny. Cause we were. To give people, again, context. It was like a ten person dinner party, and Emma and I are in the corner while I was eating bread. You weren't. Cause you're about to go to the Met gala, getting a facial done and.

Getting my toes done while I'm at the table.

And we just were talking by ourselves the entire time about, like, life and the industry and how it's affected us. And it was like, I think that was when we're like, maybe we are eventually now ready to sit down and just converse because both of our brands have evolved.

Absolutely.

And it's time.

Well, I think it was one of those things where, you know, I have been on the Internet for so long that people know me as a teenager. Yes. And I'm 20. I'm about to be 21, which is still literally like, a child. Like, I still am, like, prepubescent. Like, I know I'm 21, but whatever. Or almost 21, but I've been really trying to grow, like, in the public eye in a way, because I'm. I can't stay a teenager in everybody's mind forever. But I think I needed to do some of that work on my own before I came on here and was like, let's talk about big girl stuff.

You're like, so the gluck lock. And I'm like.

A year ago, and you guys won't believe what happened.

Impeccable result.

No? Impeccable. I almost got married six times.

That is helpful to hear you say. And we're gonna get into that. Like, the evolution of you and then the evolution also of your brand, because those are two different things. And I think as creators, like, in a great way, I think people have started to kind of peel back the layer and show people on the Internet, like, what it is like to have an online Persona versus, like, what is actually who you are versus that Persona.

Absolutely.

So here we go. Just like I usually do in every caller daddy episode. We're going all the way back.

All the way back.

Where did you grow up?

So I grew up in San Bruno, California, which is actually where YouTube headquarters is, which is ironic. A little bit of foreshadowing. I grew up with my parents. I was an only child, and when I was five, we're, like, already getting into my drama. No, when I was five, my parents got divorced, and my mom moved, like, 20 minutes away from my dad, and that was actually not a super bad experience. Cause I was so young that I just didn't really know any better. I was definitely a really bored kid because I was an only child, and, like, my parents were both, like, fully working parents, and so I had a lot of time by myself, and I was very bored a lot of the time, which I think is good in retrospect, I think it was good because it made me a lot more curious, I would say, because I didn't have a lot of distractions. You know, it's the Silicon Valley. It's a big tech area, and a lot of kids there are super smart, and there's this crazy pressure to go to a really good college, especially Stanford is, like, you know, the big school there that everybody tries to go to.

And there's also a lot of wealthy families, too. And, like, so a lot of people assume that if you live there, you're wealthy. But that was not the case for me and my family at all. But a lot of people there are very wealthy. There's, like, a very big gap, I would say, between it's, like, very, very, very wealthy and then, like, very, like, lower middle class and, like, definitely in. In between, for sure, but not as much an in between. It felt like there was a very stark difference. But I, you know, my dad's an artist, so, like, I felt more on the, you know, lower middle class side of it, which was tough.

But did you feel like your family, like, didn't fit in?

For sure. We're living in a one bedroom apartment, and all my friends at school are living in these massive mansions. It was tough. Socially, I would say. I didn't want to have people over, that's for sure.

So your parents are in some of your content. They seem very chill. How do you describe your parents?

So we'll start with my dad. My dad is very open minded and creative, but also very wise. Dad, this is. You know, this boy's a love of my life. And he's like, Emma, that dude's a. That's the worst dude I've ever met. Like, he's. You're like, really? I'm like, dad, what the fuck is incredible dad? I'm like, but he's so hot. Dad, what are you talking about? No, but he, like, he's very open minded and very sweet and very, like, creative and, you know, not super controlling or super pushy or anything like that. But he also is opinionated because he has a lot of knowledge and wisdom about things. So he's not sweet and creative in the way that makes him a pushover. He'll tell me what he thinks, but he also gives me the freedom to, like, make the mistakes, and he's always done that, so. And he never judges me, but a very, very cool man, the coolest person I know. I mean, he, like, paints paintings and surfs every day, and, like, that's his job, is painting paintings and selling them, and, like, started making YouTube videos before I did. Like, he's very cool.

Right? My mom is. How do I describe my mom? She's like one of the girls. You know what I mean? She's very lovable. I tell her everything, like, everything. And I have no hesitation. Like, she knows everything I've ever done in my whole life. Got it. So I'm very, very close with her. But we're more like sisters, I would say, like, you know, we used to butt heads a lot when I was growing up, and, you know, because she's picky. She's very, like, likes to keep the house clean and, like, set things folded a certain way. And she's very particular about things, like that very meticulous woman about everything that she does, which is a very admirable quality. But when you're growing up and, you know, you don't know how to fold a blanket properly, like, it can cause some problems. Absolutely. But, no, at the end of the day, we're very close. And even when we do fight, like, literal sisters, like, she's always there. I'm really lucky that my parents have always been very. Not like traditional parents. They're very sibling like.

Okay.

And I think it's because they didn't even consider themselves to be the type to be parents ever. And so they had me because they wanted to, but they were like, we don't fit the parent mold, so we're just gonna do it in our own way. And it's been great.

I know you said, like, you didn't know any different, but do you now, looking back, like, how did your parents divorce affect you?

Well, you know, I think in one way, and this is no one's fault, right? Like, I'm grateful for their divorce, and I'll say that before I, like, go in. And, you know, it was, number one, what was best for them and for their happiness. Number two, like, I never saw them fight. I never saw them argue. They divorced before it could ever become traumatizing in that way for me, and that's really mature. And also, they're still friends, and they talk all the time. I mean, I'm really lucky in that way too. Like, they get along great. Like, they talk all the time and they're so supportive of one another. So it's not been a negative thing in that way. But I will say that for one, not having a relationship to look up to when you're growing up does become a little bit jarring when you're older and you're like, okay, I'm in my first relationship. What is this supposed to look like? I don't know. I've never seen it.

Did you wish you had had siblings?

You know? No, because again, like, my relationship with my parents was so close because it wasn't. There was nothing in the way of it, right? Like, each parent was not in the way of my relationship with the other parent. And also, I didn't have a sibling in the way of my relationship with my parents. And listen, I think it could have been really fun to have a sibling. I don't know. I'll never know, right? But I liked the friendship I was able to develop with my parents in the closeness. And I don't think I would have had that if I had a sibling.

What do you remember about signing up for your first social media account?

I had two older cousins. Well, I have two older cousins. They're three years older than me. And they were like my idols, you know, growing up. And they got Snapchat and they're like, Emma, babe, it's time to download Snapchat on the ipod touch. And I was like, you got it, girls. Let's go. And so I downloaded Snapchat and, you know, we would just send each other silly stuff back and forth. Pretty soon after that, Instagram came out and I was like, alright, here we go. So I downloaded that too. I think my cousins told me to download that too. And my first post was a picture of a mini bag of cheez its with, like, some crazy ass filter on top of it. And I think my caption was something like, crunchy. Yum. Like, what the.

Thinking back to, like, the first, like, couple, like, the first year of Instagram, we would have, like, borders on our photos and, like, disgusting filters.

I know. Yes.

You would take a picture of, like, your shoe or like, an extension cord.

Yeah.

And be like, life's long. And then you're like, what am I saying? It was dumb shit.

So weird. Like, I would. I would do anything to be able to find my old Instagram.

I don't know if I would.

No, I would.

I'm like, traumatized. I'm like, what the fuck was I posting? Because I was like, a little older, and I was, like, trying to be cool with the cute selfies. Yeah, and those were not cute selfies.

Those were scary and spooky. What did your.

Did your parents have any rules or guidelines when you first started on Snapchat and Instagram or did they just kind of let you do whatever you wanted?

Honestly, they didn't care. Okay. Like, really just never brought it up. Like, they didn't care.

Cause were you getting in trouble as a kid? Like, were you a good kid or.

I was a really good kid. I had. Because of my anxiety as a kid. I think I had a really strong conscience, which is good. You know what I mean? I never did anything bad without my parents finding out about it 24 hours later. Got it. So they knew that I would tell them, like, if I did something wrong, my conscience would force me to report it back to them.

Got it.

I don't know what that stems from. I don't know why that is, but I was very transparent with them. And so when it came to things like social media, they were like, she's not gonna. She's not. She's just not a bad kid. Like, she's just not gonna do bad shit on there. And. And I didn't. Because I just didn't even know how to do bad stuff. I'm like, I, like, didn't know what bad stuff was. Right. I did have a kick that just reminded me. I had a kick that I used for, like, just kids at school messaging kids at school. I forgot. And then I would get, like, dick pics and kick, and then I got super scared, like.

So the first time you saw a penis?

Yeah.

Terrifying.

Oh, I was so fucking grateful. I think I'm sexually attracted to anything I do.

I do not know what I like, but I don't like that.

I don't like that. And so, like, who knows what's next.

Is that so sad that, like, it when you. If you get a dick peck and that's the first penis you see, like, you're, like, not attracted to it. Like, terrified. It makes you scared.

I was scared of penises until probably, like, I was 16.

Okay.

Like, seriously, like, I was like, I'm scared of them. But I was like, that is such a. For, like, it was so alien to me.

Yeah.

Cuz I didn't have siblings, so it's not like I had a little brother where, like, I, like, saw him growing up and I saw a boy exist. I didn't have a lot of guy friends, so to me, a penis, I was like, I don't know what that is. It scared me.

Everybody that listens to my show knows that I was obsessed with Hannah Montana growing up.

Same.

Okay. Cause I was gonna ask you, I'm like, who were you idolizing and watching when you were growing up that you were obsessed with?

Well, I have to give a few from the years given. Okay. My first YouTube obsession was Fred. Do you remember Fred?

Oh, my. Iconic.

Iconic.

I completely forgot about that.

Well, I, like, got on YouTube super young, too, because, like, you know, my dad was into YouTube. He was writing singing covers on YouTube when it first came out. And so he found out about it and was like, emma, this is great. And we didn't have cable, so he's like, here you go, little one. You know, you don't get cable, but you do get this, babe. Enjoy.

It's a pretty good trade.

No, it's great. I loved it. So I got super into YouTube super young. Loved Fred. Then as I grew a little bit older, it was Jonas Brothers. For me in Hannah Montana, which one was your favorite? It kind of teetered between Nick and Joe. Sorry, Kevin. Honestly, Kevin's. Kevin's coming back. No, Kevin. He's a fucking angel. He deserved. He deserved more.

He did, he did. Have you ever met them?

I met. I've met Joe.

I went to the Hannah Montana concert where it was like half Hannah Montana, half the Miley show. And I remember the Jonas brothers opened for them. And I remember my dad being like, I promise you, in like a year, everyone's gonna be obsessed with these guys. And I was like, no. And then I was obsessed. In a year I was like, I love them. And then when, like, Nick had the diabetes thing, we were all, like, devastated and everyone was obsessed, obsessed with. And it was like, we were like.

We will do it, anything and you save him.

Like, it was so dramatic.

No, I know.

Okay, so you, Jonas brothers, you liked Miley.

I loved Hannah Montana. Miley, all of that. Okay, I have to bring this up because it's so fucking funny, okay. But, like, when I was like, 1213 and vine came out, I was a huge, mad con girl.

Okay, that's okay.

No, it hurts. Wait, why?

Explain.

Why does it hurt?

Yeah.

Well, you know, let's. Let's explain this for people who don't know what magcon is. Basically there was a group of really hot. Well, okay, it's creepy to say that they're hot now that I'm 20.

No, it's okay.

But you. But, like, at the time, I thought they were the hottest guys I'd ever seen, they were on vine doing absolutely nothing of substance. Right, right. Which is fine, you know? Like, that's not their fault. Right. It's exactly like tick tock. It's basically, it was like a group of, like, really good looking kids that were on vine that were famous and they would, like, go on tours and do meet and greets and, like, meet all their young girl fans and, like, you know, do weird shit on stage that made no sense because they really, if you think about it, didn't necessarily have some sort of talent except for actually Shawn Mendes was in Matt Con and he is, like, now Shawn Mendes. So, like, it worked out for some of them. It was like, cameron Dallas and, like, Nash Greer. You know what I mean?

I remember that.

Yes. I was obsessed with them. Like, I. And they had YouTube channels, and I would rewatch their videos, like, every night before bed, and I was like, one day, like, I'll meet a mad con boy and I'll be able to just date one of them. They'll fall in love with me. And, like, I was, I.

A lot of people felt, though, oh, for sure, yeah.

But I will say that it, like, my crushes as a young person were all consuming. Like, they were not, like, cute little mini crushes.

Like, I was obsessed with feening for that.

I was feening. It was weird. Like, in retrospect, I don't. It's so out of character. Right? Like, people would not assume that of me, but I've always been so, like, when I have a crush on, so I'm not creepy. I don't, like, stalk anybody, but it is all consuming for me. I get that.

Because then you go spiral down. Like, you watch every YouTube video and you watch every single possible thing that you consume of, like, interviews and everything.

Every.

And then you're invested in their life.

Yeah.

And they don't even know who you are.

No.

Well, now they probably do.

Let's talk high school. Yeah.

You go to a private school. Yeah, I've seen the videos. You're wearing a plaid skirt. Sort of plaid.

It was. I don't even fucking want to think about it. Describe your high school. So I had an interesting experience with high school because basically I was a really academically driven student. Okay. And so I was obsessed with the idea of going to a super prestigious college, and I was willing to do anything to get there. And so when it came time to choose what high school I was going to go to, the public schools in my area were not great, and I wanted to go to that, I wanted to go to a braggy, you know, super prestigious, like, you know, impressive school. And I was like, I can't get that if I go to these public schools. So I was like, mom and dad, I want to go to a private school. And I went and I toured this all girls catholic school, had a really great education, and I was like, you know, this could actually be good. I really liked the environment when I toured the school, and I was able to get financial aid so that I could financially go there because I would not have been able to afford it otherwise.

And so there I went. I went to all girls catholic school, and I hated it after the first year, and I was like, I made a big fucking mistake, and I haven't seen a boy in a long time. And you're like, now those dick pics on kick. Suddenly I'm trying to fucking hack back into my cake to see those dick pics. I'm like, guys, anything?

So when you started high school, that's interesting to know, you did have college goals?

Oh, yeah.

Where did you want to go?

I. My dream school was Columbia, which was, like, not gonna fucking happen. But, like, you know, actually, I mean, I was a good student. Like, I don't know how I was a good student, okay. Why? I, like, just knew how to do school for whatever reason. And so I got really good grades, like, always above a 4.0 every year. Listen, I don't fucking know how it's possible, okay?

It was flex.

I was like, really? Just. And I don't think that school is a great measure of intelligence. I'll be the first one to say it because I'm a fucking idiot in a lot of areas. So, like, whatever. But I was good at school, so I was like, I'm gonna use this. And, you know, I wanted to go into the medical field. Like, I wanted to be an anesthesiologist. Wow. But, like, on what basis? One time, I had anesthesia when I had a surgery, and the anesthesiologist. I see, I can't even fucking pronounce the word of this. Okay.

No, it sounds good.

Whatever sounds good enough.

Yeah, it is.

I dropped out of high school, so it's fine that I don't know how to pronounce it, okay. Like, I didn't finish my education, so you can't expect too much from me. Like, I got a surgery once and was like, oh, this job seems chill. And then I looked up how much they make a year, and I was like, oh, this job's super chill. This is a good chill. You have to go to school for, like, eleven years, but, like, eventually you'll get that check. Why not?

When did you have your first kiss? Like, if you're not with boys, like, when did you have your first kiss?

I had my first kiss freshman year on New Year's Eve.

That's kind of cute.

No. Oh, it was not cute.

No.

Actually, you know, in retrospect, it was fine. Like, it could have been a lot worse. Okay. But it was pretty bad. How did you meet the guy then.

If you were at an old girl school?

Basically the all girls school had a corresponding all boys school. Right? Classic. And so we would kind of party with the boys from the all boys school, and they had friends that they knew from middle school that were at other, like, co ed schools. And then we knew other girls that went to other co ed schools, so it kind of all, like, congealed. But I think that the thing that made it possible for the boys and girls to be together was the fact that both boy and girl schools were desperate for each other. Got it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So. And, you know, there was, like, a distinct, like, okay, this is the corresponding boys school. So it was like we didn't see each other every day, but at football games, we'd see each other and prom and things like that. Anyway, I actually ended up kissing a guy from, like, a school that was probably 30 minutes away that, like, came to a new year's party that we were throwing, like, the two schools, and it was extremely set up.

Those are the worst.

You know, it was like, oh, he's outside waiting now. Okay, but you also have to, like, we paint a picture. Like, I was a super late bloomer. I mean, I had, like, no boobs. Like, I looked really young. Like, it was like, I looked super young.

Yeah, I always have.

I even now look kind of young. A lot of people think I look young now, so I felt super. Also, I never felt, like, mature enough for. For, like, this type of behavior. You know what I mean? Cause mentally, I felt mature enough, but physically, I didn't. I felt like I didn't fit the super feminine mold. Right? Where you, like, have, like, boobs and, like, you know, you wear, like, a low top and, like, whatever. I could not participate in that. So I felt so uncomfortable when it was time to do anything with boys. Cause I was like, I want to. And, like, I mentally feel ready, but outwardly, I don't feel like I look ready. And I feel insecure of my appearance, even though I know that in my brain, like, I'm ready and that I, like, love boys. And in fact, I'm, like, quite obsessed with boys. But I didn't feel like I looked that way.

What were you most insecure about appearance wise?

I was super insecure about my boobs because. Which now I'm like, I love having small boobs. Like, it's the best thing ever. Like, I don't care. But, you know, when I was younger, I, like, didn't have any boobs. Like, it wasn't just like, oh, there's no. They flat. And, you know, guys in middle school used to give me a hard fucking time about that. Like calling me, you know, like a door, like, whatever. Like shit like that. And which is fine, like, whatever. I'm friends with those kids now. Like, I forgive, but, you know, it's good to. It's good to be forgiving. But I also, like, didn't get my period until I was 16 and I felt like I wasn't a woman without it. You know, I was like, you start.

Making videos at one point in high school.

Yes.

And when I was growing up, I was familiar with having a camera in my face because my dad is in the tv industry.

Yes.

And so every single Christmas or birthday, there's cameras everywhere in my house. And so naturally, I knew I was the star. And I know that's cringe.

No, it's not cringe.

I was like, dad, cue the cam. Here.

I meant to be right here.

What do you remember about your early performances on a camera?

Well, I was always really obsessed with YouTube because as I mentioned earlier, I didn't have cable and so I watched a lot of YouTube. And when I was like, in fifth grade, I tried to make a YouTube video on my iPad. I wish we could watch it so bad. I need to find that iPad cuz it has so much good shit on it. But my cousins and I were constant. Like, we were constantly making little videos during family vacations, during, you know, holidays, like whatever. Constantly making little videos. Like, there were these iMovie trailer templates that you could use so you could make like a movie trailer, but imovie provided the template. So all you had to do is like, film little things and then they plug it in for you. And so we would do those all the time. So I was familiar and comfortable in that sense where, you know, my cousins and I were always obsessed.

There is a big difference between recording something and then pressing upload on that show. Like, you gotta have balls to press upload, for sure. What compelled you to press upload on your first YouTube video.

Well, my first YouTube video ever. I was in fifth grade, and I was like, I don't care. I didn't even want to, like, be famous. Like, I never thought I could, like, get any, like, recognition from it. I. To this day, I've always, like, looked at fame as an impossible thing. So I was like, I'm not gonna become famous from this, but I was like, even just, like, a few people commenting will make me feel good post. And then, of course, like, nothing happened. And then I deleted it like, a week later. That was my very first one. But then, you know, when I was 16 and I uploaded, I honestly just. I was in such a shitty spot that I was like, I have nothing to lose. Like, I'm so depressed. I'm so unhappy. I, like, I want to do something that makes me feel good. And YouTube has always made me feel good, so I'm. I'm just gonna post on there.

Did anyone from your high school, when they saw that, make fun of you or, like, say anything mean behind my back?

Yes, but never to my face. And I heard about people saying shit behind my back, but it's like, like.

What were they saying?

They were just like, does she really think anything's gonna come of that? Which is, you know what? No, listen, fair enough. Like, if I would have seen someone from my high school posing on YouTube, I, number one, I would have said the same thing about them. I would have been like, really? Like, what's gonna come on, you guys? Like, it's not easy. But on the other hand, I was even saying that to myself. It wasn't like people were. It wasn't like I was posting YouTube videos being like, I'm gonna make it big one day. You know, I was posting videos, like, this is just a hobby for me. And, like, even if I just get 100 subscribers, like, that's fun. Like, I just. A little community. And also, I enjoy making the videos. I enjoy the process of it. So what happened after I pressed upload was more just like, well, at least it lives somewhere.

When did you go viral?

So about. About, like, two or three months after I started.

That's crazy.

It was, you know, it was crazy. But I also think that a big reason for that was I was uploading every fucking day. Like, I was uploading every single day during the summer. And by the end of the summer, I had, like, something like 50 videos. And so I had such a collection already that it was easy. It didn't take as long because I was grinding. I mean, every day I was like, I need to make a video every day. And then I ended up cutting it down. I was, like, three days a week, and then I cut it down two days a week, and then I cut it down one day a week. But it was, like, in the beginning, I started, and I was like, I just want to get as good at this as I can as quickly as fucking possible. And then when that one video did really well. Which one? It was this video where I went to the dollar store and I bought a bunch of, like, random shit and did, like, a fake haul. Like, I was kind of, like, kidding around doing a haul, and I was really proud of the video.

And it, like, after two weeks, it had, like, half a million views or something. Or maybe it was, like, it had a hundred thousand views after, like. Yeah.

And what it. When that was happening, what were you doing? Like, were you telling your parents? What were you.

My parents? My dad was, like, super interested. He was like, I think you could really do something with this, actually. And I was like, okay, I don't. But thanks, dad. I was like, dad, like, that is, like, one in a trillion. Like, why are we. Why are we. Let's not go there. Cause I'm just gonna get disappointed, you know? But he was like, I don't know, Emma. Like, I think if you really get good at this, like, something could come of it. When all of a sudden, like, so many people are watching, you're like, I actually cannot comprehend this number of people. I can't comprehend the fact that all of a sudden, now I'm making money. You know, I can't comprehend any part of this. So I'm just gonna go robot mode. And, like, just, like, I. You know, you stop at a certain point, you stop processing it.

It's a really weird thing to try to explain, too, because it's not like you're a singer where you're, like, filling a stadium for a concert. So you're, like, making these things and pressing upload and then going to bed, and, like, yet it's crazy to see that number, but it still doesn't fully register that, like, whoa. Like, half a million people just watched that video.

It feels. It's like a different metric in your brain. Yeah. Like, it's like you're looking at it in a different. You're not looking at it as real people, but you're also not looking at it as just a number. There's this, like, weird in between way that your brain processes it.

Yeah.

But it's. It's kind of. I think I knew subconsciously that if I looked into it too deeply and I thought about it too deeply, that I'd psych myself out, fuck myself over and ruin the whole thing. So I was like, I'm not gonna think. I'm just gonna just tunnel vision keep going. And, like, I did that up until probably the last three months. And it has been really uncomfortable when. When you really, like, wake up and realize like, oh, shit, this is the situation. It's like I finally turned off my tunnel vision and it felt like everything was like, that had been building for four years was now right in front of me. And I never looked at it. You know what I mean? Yes.

And we're gonna get into that because. Yes.

But first. Yes.

Why did you drop out of high school?

So the summer of sophomore year, I started my YouTube channel because I was depressed. And I was like, my dad was like, you need a hobby. I said, okay. So I started my channel, and by the end of the summer, you know, I was making money. And I was like, and I've never made money, you know, and I was like, oh, shit. Okay. This is actually pretty serious, you know, and I was loving it. And people at school were, like, respecting me because I had. They weren't being an asshole anymore. Some people still were, but, you know, people were, like, excited for me and I was excited. And junior year, I was like, okay, I. This is the year I take hard classes. So I was taking, like, three AP classes. And long story short, it just was so I couldn't do schoolwork and YouTube, but I was like, obviously schoolwork is more important. So I was like, okay, I'll just drop some of my classes and take easier classes. But then YouTube kept building, and I was like, I already took all the, like, I'm just taking added shit to help me for college.

And I started questioning, okay, am I even gonna go to college? Anyway, now that this YouTube thing is going the way that it is, I'm making an income now. I can support myself. Now. All of a sudden, by the end of the summer, I was like, I actually could support myself. I don't. It changed everything. And I was like, I don't think I need to be working this hard because I don't think I'm actually going to college anymore. I might try to ride this out. And then when this doesn't work out anymore, then I can go to college even if I'm, like, 30. Like, who gives a fuck, you know? And so I took one of those standardized tests and just left school. Like, I kept basically dropping classes more and more until it got to a point where I was like, I just don't need to be here because I'm not. I'm number one. I'm not learning anything that is necessary. It was all stuff that was only really necessary for college. I had already taken all of the classes that I needed to that were like, normal high school level. I was just doing added shit.

What's the point of that? I was like, this is stupid. So I was out of there.

How did you tell your parents and how did they react?

Honestly, it was kind of their idea. Hahaha. It was kind of like, it was not just my idea. I wasn't like mom and dad, like, I want to leave school. They were like, you're so miserable in school, you know? Well, actually, at first we were thinking about homeschooling me.

Interesting.

So actually, that was the first idea. They were like, you, this is not. This structure is not working right. And so we toyed around with the idea of homeschooling me. But then after doing more research, we were like, okay, actually, just. Let's just cut it, cut it. Because I know that I don't recommend people drop out of school, and I think that my situation was very unique because I was fortunate enough to get all of my general high school education out of the way in the first two years. And that's a really, like, again, like, it would have been irresponsible to leave if that had not been completed. And I. And I always. I actually have never said that out loud, I don't think. But I know it's kind of fun to be reckless and be like, I dropped out of school. Like, fuck that. But it was, it wasn't this super irrational, super irresponsible. I could have gone straight to college from that point that I was at. Got it. You know, so, like, I didn't need to. It wasn't fucking me over. I completed my high school credits. Like, I was done. You know what I'm saying?

So how did your friends react when you told them, like, were you close with a lot of people in high school? Did you have a lot of friends.

The first year and a half of high school? Yes, but towards the end, no, I only really had one friend. And even. And she, like, knew everything about, like, she knew about how school was, like, affecting me negatively and how I just was depressed. So, like, I couldn't be social, you know, and I couldn't deal with the ebbs and flows of friendship. I just didn't have that in my. In me. And so she understood that and she was kind of kept up to date on, like, how things were evolving, but she, you know, she was like, she had other friends, like, so she was just like, peace. You know, everybody was just kind of like, peace. I really just disappeared one day.

Honestly, if you could change one thing about that time in your life, what would it be?

Nothing. I really, you know, I have a lot of moments in my life that I look back at and cringe at, and I have a lot of moments that I regret, like, for sure and not regret. That's actually completely the wrong word. I have a lot of moments that I'm like, damn, I would do that so differently now. But I refuse to ever even think about how I would change things because every bad experience has just made me me.

Do you. Have you ever been had one of those moments, like, a little jealous of that, like, classic college experience you see on TikTok, people are at the frat parties. Do you ever be like, okay, yes.

What?

So you do? Is it more about, like, the social aspect that you kind of wish you could partake in?

I think the thing that I sometimes get a little bit upset about is, like, how quickly I had to grow up. And it sounds so, again, like, just so, like, Emma, shut the fuck up. But I don't think I realized when I left school and immediately started working how there's no leeway for me anymore. You know what I mean? There was no room for being a kid anymore. Like, it was like, okay, no, you have to get your fucking act together because you're. Now you're saying, you know, that you can make a living on your own and that you're gonna make this shit work and that you're gonna make it last. And that, you know, moving to LA is a good idea and that being friends with other, you know, youtubers is a good idea. And, you know, having to do your own laundry and do your own dishes and cook for yourself and taxes, like, there's so many facets of it that you're like, oh, shit, you know, I didn't realize that this came with this, you know, right, by quitting school and by just going straight into being technically self employed, I was also saying that I could handle all those other things.

My parents were very helpful with the technical stuff, but emotionally, you know, there's no way to prepare.

College is basically four years of you to be able to fake act like an adult.

Yes.

You don't really have much responsibility, but you are on your own. And for you it was like, oh wait, no, you actually do have responsibility because if you don't keep uploading, like, you don't have a job and you didn't apply to college. So like, where are we going? 16 years old, you become famous on the Internet. How did people start treating you differently?

I would say at first not much changed. It was really interesting because, yes, I had a following on the Internet that if you look at it, you know, like 100,000 subscribers, that's a fuck ton of subscribers, right. But in the grand scheme of the world, people didn't really, they were like, eh, we'll see you at a million. Like, you know, this is, yeah, whatever. My family was very skeptical, like my outer family, they were kind of like, what is going on? You know? And so they didn't treat me any different, but they were definitely just like curious. A lot of people were really curious, but I didn't really have any friends so I didn't have any friends reacting to like, what was happening to me.

When you say you didn't have any friends, did you feel lonely?

Yes, but I really wanted, once I started to, you know, turn YouTube into my job, I started to feel like I couldn't really relate to kids in my high school as well. And so I was like, you know, I would still hang out with those kids and we would have fun and like, that was fine. But there was a disconnect. And so I started looking to find people that were in this space that could be friends with me and I ended up finding those friends and that was really awesome. So like, and we didn't live near each other but I made quite a bit of friends on the Internet that were doing the same thing. And it was nice because there was a mutual understanding and also there was no weirdness. There was no questions about it. There was just like an unspoken understanding that was very special at the time.

There's always the moment when you start getting recognized in public.

Yeah.

When do you remember, like the first time you got recognized?

So I go to Maine every summer with my family on vacation and I had like 6000 subscribers when I went the summer of sophomore year. Like 6000 subscribers, okay. Which to me was like, oh my God, fuck all y'all. I'm popping off. I'm popping off. Y'all don't know me anymore. I'm different now. No, but. So I'm on vacation in Maine and this girl comes up to me and asks me for a photo. Now I had 6000 subscribers. I thought that this was a real interaction. My grandma set that up.

No, you're like, oh, my God, you guys, I just got asked for a picture. Your grandma.

I'm already getting a big fucking head. Grandma, do not play with me like this. Holy shit. No, but it was sweet. It was sweet.

That's actually so cute.

It was hilarious.

Eventually, though, you did start to gain attention. How did you handle initially getting noticed in public and, like, the attention at.

First, I've actually gone through phases with it. Like, in the very beginning, I was stoked, and I was like. So. I was like, this is so awesome. Like, it was, you know, my dream was coming true, right? It was so fucking cool, and it was. And then, you know, I've gone through ebbs and flows where it's made me a little anxious because if I'm not in a good spot, like, I'll get anxious about not being in a good spot mentally. And I'm like, is this showing? Like, I don't want. I started getting anxiety about giving these people, like, the best experience they could possibly have meeting me, and then that kind of got into my head, but I didn't have that thought in the very beginning, so that came into play later.

It feels like no one hates you, and I'm gonna take notes right now because I'm a little bit more polarizing. Why do you think you're so lovable?

I don't feel that I am, and I think that really. I mean, I've gone through the wringer.

Really? In what way?

Well, so there was, like, there's been chunks of time throughout my experience on the Internet where I've been, like, widely disliked. You know, whether people thought I was annoying or people like. Or, like. It's interesting. Like, there's just been periods of time when people have just not liked me and the general conversation around me has been negative. The thing that's really interesting about it is that I noticed this just from talking to other people in this space. A lot of people, they're so hyper focused on themselves as they should be. We're human, right? So, like, I perceive you, and I'm like, you're. Nobody fucking hates you, right? But see you. Because I'm not seeing people giving you shit. Right. Where it's like, you're not seeing people give me shit. Everybody gets shit. And so everybody. Their own perception of their own career and, like, general likeness is not. Right.

Right.

It's skewed in a negative direction for everybody individually. I look at any other person personality on the Internet, and unless they're like, genuinely.

Yeah.

Just a bad fucking person and everyone knows it. Unless that's what's going on generally. Like, nobody is gonna see it except for you. Yeah.

Like, it's almost like you. Everyone ebbs and flows with hate and love.

Yeah.

If you're putting content out there.

Yeah.

And also, everyone's memory is so short on shit.

People don't give a fuck.

No, they act like they do because it's fun to, like, get together in a group and be like, let's handle this person. But then in a week, if they're like, oh, my God, like, you're doing this, and then they love you and it just ebbs and flows. But that is a good point to say, like, to hear from you saying, like, you do get hate.

Yeah.

To summarize, like, what do they hate you for?

I mean, I would say that, like, when I was a lot younger, I edited in, like, a really, like, fast pace, like a kind of, you know, flashy way, and it was kind of like. And I thought it was, like, funny and annoying, and that's why I liked it. I was like, I think this is just, like, funny and entertaining and, like, it's not serious, like, whatever. But some people just found that annoying. And we're like, why the fuck do people want to watch this? Which I totally get because that's not. Everybody was gonna like the style of editing and my personality. I was a loud kid, I was a, you know, outgoing kid, and people just thought I was annoying. So that was, like, one thing. But then also I think a big part of it was just like, when you become successful, people just are gonna nitpick just about anything. Yeah. And so. And I understood that. I was like, I get it. Like, I'm, you know, I'm a target, and I understand that. And I think some of it might have been from jealousy and some of it just might have been from, like, people just simply not enjoying me.

And, like, that's fair, but it doesn't make it not hurt, you know? I can't blame people. I get the culture of the Internet, but it still sucks. It does suck, you know?

Well, it's hard because then you get all these good comments and then you see one and you're like, it sticks with you. And then it's like, wait. All these people are actually, like, telling you how great you are. They love the content. Then you see one, and then you're like, my whole day sucks.

It's always that way.

Yeah.

You think you can and you might have a good moment where you're like, oh, this shit doesn't bother me, but it always comes back.

Is there anything that made you almost quit?

I will say there has been a lot of times where I've almost quit.

And how do you not, like, what brings you back to not quitting?

Well, I'm in an interesting spot now where, you know, I'm 20, and I am in a spot where I'm ready to evolve things. And I don't really know what that means for myself right now, but I need to, like, find what mediums and what things make me excited because I was in this hamster wheel of, you know, creating content every single week for four years. And the thing that kept me coming back was the fact that that's the. It's like, literally like a disease. Like, when you start doing YouTube or you start a podcast or whatever you do, which I, you know, I've been doing both now for, like, two years or so. Like, you're like, if I miss a week, I'm done. People are gonna fucking forget. People won't care. And you. You, like, guilt trip yourself into pushing through even the roughest moments because I burped, because there's this stigma that, like, the second you take a break, you're out. But I'm done with that. I've taken a break for the past few months. I'm like, sorry, I'm done. Or two month or so, not that long, but I was like, I'm burnt out, so I'm gonna take a fucking break.

When we talk about going through this hamster wheel process, it's so hard to explain, like, a tangible feeling that is. And, like, I talk about it in therapy all the time. Like, I started this podcast, kind of like, when you started YouTube and you didn't have anything in mind of, like, a start or end date, it was like, I'm just gonna start this. And then all of a sudden, you wake up and you're like, I've been doing this for years.

Yeah.

And, like, who am I without my podcast? Are you without YouTube? Who is like, it.

There's no light at the end of the tunnel. It's also not, like, the type of thing that you can ever stop thinking about. I've been thinking about YouTube for four years straight. There's not been a day or an hour that has gone by where something about it has not come into my head. And whether it's like, how do I want to evolve my videos? You know, what am I going to film next? What are people gonna think of that? Video. Was that video shit? Like, same thing with my podcast. Was this episode. Did I rant too much? Did this episode, like, was this episode fucking annoying? Like, was I repeating myself too much? You know, it's like, there's no end date. There's no room for a real break. There is, but you don't wanna let yourself believe that, right? And there's no room for mistakes. There's no room for mistakes. There's no room. It just feels like, you know, your boss is humanity in a way. Like, your boss is literally just, like, public opinion. It feels like. And that's fucking weird. And it's so out of your control because the court of public opinion evolves.

It ebbs, it flows. It's not like you're reporting to one person and, like, being like, here's my work for the week. You just have to be constantly trying to guess what the people want. And when you're living by that, it's like, what formula are you to follow? There's no formula to follow. It's like uncharted territory. And sometimes the people don't even know what they want. So if they give you an idea that might not actually work, sometimes you have to predict what people want. And it's just this whole mind fuck. And listen, I'm not complaining about it because in every job, in every, you know, profession in life, like, there are elements of it that are just a nightmare. And I think just with this, it's like everything could just go away so quickly. And I think the way that I found peace in it is I'm like, okay, if it does, then it does, and I'll just get pregnant and have a baby.

This is Emma's pregnancy announcement, right?

You guys, I'm pregnant. Like, no, no.

It's like, goodbye.

No publicist said, no.

I have never heard someone explain it like that.

Where your boss is, the public, every.

Single creator said, does exactly what you just said. You quickly say, like, and I'm not ungrateful. And I'm not saying I'm not, like, so happy with what I have. That's not it. But in everyone's life, you have your struggles and you have your adversity. That comes totally. And when you have millions of people every single day having not only an opinion on you, but sort of a holdover, whether you have a career or not, right? It is a lot to fucking handle as a young adult.

Well, the thing is, too, about it is that as humans, you know, we're not supposed to. I mean, this is just an issue with social media in general. But you're just not supposed to be exposed to that many opinions, that many people's successes, that many people's vacations, that many people's hot takes when they're. You're just not supposed to experience that many people's lives. Right. We're programmed biologically to only have to compare ourselves and listen to a handful of people. Right. I've watched a video about this. I'm not a fucking scientist, but I did watch a video about this. Yeah. I'm citing my sources. Long story short, like, you're just not supposed to hear from that many people. It's not like something that we're evolved to be able to comprehend. So it makes sense that for us, for example, reading comments all the time from hundreds of different people, sometimes thousands and sometimes millions, that's just not a normal experience. And so when our brains react in weird ways, it's like, what else did we expect? This is a weird situation and is not natural. Yeah.

And I hate when people say, like, then just don't do it. Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I. I do love it.

I totally.

It's my passion.

Mm hmm.

So then you have to basically, I think what we're both saying is, like, it is. There is no book.

Yeah.

That gives you. Here's a guideline.

Right.

This is. There is no one that can tell you, like, this is exactly how you act. The minute you get this many followers, then this is gonna happen. And then you talk to this therapist. Cause they'll know how to like it. There's just no formula.

Yeah.

And so it's weird you eventually moved to LA.

Yes.

How did the change of scenery affect your videos and your life?

Should I go pee before I do this? Yeah. Okay.

Wait, let me pee. Go in the.

Sorry. Sorry, daddy gang. I'm pissing now. No kidding.

You don't want us to listen to Pete. Go down the.

All the way down the hall.

Anyways, Emma's back. How is your pee break?

Hello? Hello? Check, check.

Pee break was Poppin.

It was Poppin.

I hope there was toilet paper in there. I don't. Like.

We could literally talk for 6 hours. Oh, wait. This is just like, the podcast house.

Is the dad pad.

No way. Yeah, it's kind of nice to, like, not be in your own house.

I used to do it from my bed all the time because where do you podcast from?

My bed. Yeah.

And, like, there's pros to that, but I started to feel like I could never turn it off. So I just.

Yes, I've been having that struggle recently.

Because if that microphone is sitting on your bed or near it, you just keep being like, should I start?

Should I start?

Should I start podcast?

I'm like, I could record right now.

And it will be, like, almost midnight. And I'm like, oh, I have a thought. And I'm like, no, I need to, like, set boundaries. Thank you.

Absolutely. Okay. Okay.

So I asked you, how did the change of scenery to LA affect your video in your life?

Well, I think a lot of people who were following me at the time when they found out I was moving to LA were like, there she goes. You know what I mean? Like, there goes the girl that we fell in love with. She's about to die. You know what I mean? Like, she's not gonna be here anymore. And I think to a certain extent, that was a valid concern. And I think, well, okay, here's the thing. It was such a huge life shift in my foundation and my reality changed so much that my sense of identity kind of went out the window and I was having to rebuild my new. I mean, and this happens regardless of if you're moving to LA and doing YouTube or if you're just literally a teenager, you know, like, there was a lot of shifting that was going on. It was like I was making new friends. I was starting to try to date guys. Like, I was, like, living on my own and, like, trying to figure out what that entailed. And, like, there was so many life changes all at once that, like, a whole new group of people, a whole new scenery.

It was just like, whatever. My sense of identity was fucked. And so when it came to, like, making videos, the shift from moving from home to moving to LA took such a psychological toll on me that I don't think I was willing to admit to myself at the time, but it was so exhausting to, you know, find your footing in a new place, especially LA, that, like, I was very drained just from life itself. And so when it came time to, like, make YouTube videos, I was like, I am so fucking tired just from, like, existing here right now that I think my content, at certain times throughout the first year and a half, two years of being in LA, like, my content had moments of suffering because there were just moments when I was. My life itself was a mess and not even a mess in a bad way, just simply a mess where I didn't feel like I had a foundation.

Like, can you explain, in your opinion, like, the good and the bad evil parts of LA when you're talking about your experience.

I think the good is that there are so many people here that are in a similar industry. To me and to you, it's so being here is nice because there's a lot of people around that can relate because it's a very unique situation and it's comfortable to be around people that are in the same industry as you. But, well, also another good thing about LA is that, you know, there's a lot more opportunities here and it's a lot easier. Like, you have to do a shoot for something or if you have to do an interview for something, you know, everybody's in the same area, so it's just a lot more convenient to get a lot more done because everything's here. It's either here or New York and usually it's here. Actually, a lot of people from New York fly here to do stuff and so living here is very easy to get the most done and I can't take that away from LA. Also LA, you know, it's like, the weather's nice and, like, you know, you're close to the beach. Like, there's great things about LA, but I will say that there is a lot of toxic stuff about it.

Number one, being that you can't walk anywhere. That makes me really upset. Number two, that's like the stupidest thing to complain about, but it sucks. Number two, being around people that are in the same industry as you is also not always the best thing because there's a lot of competitiveness. There's a lot of trying to use you to get farther and that's something I didn't anticipate. It's great when you can find someone here who is in the same space as you that, like, just wants companionship, but that's actually more rare than you think. Yeah. So there's a lot of room to get fucked over when you're being friends with people in your industry. And that's something that I really struggled with and experienced.

When you say that, can you elaborate a little bit on, like, when was a. And, you know, obviously you're not naming names, but of course, when was a moment that you realize, like, I think I'm getting used right now.

Oh, my God. It's like, been so many times. I mean, like, I. And sometimes using is not always a bad thing. Like, sometimes you can even find yourself being like, well, yeah, they're maybe using me, but I guess I'm kind of using them too. You know, like in certain types of collaborations, things like that. But I think that's kind of different because usually when it comes to, like, a collaboration of some sort of, it's a mutual benefit. Sometimes it's not, though. And in those moments, you're like, okay, I'm not benefiting from this at all. This person's, like, profiting off of me in some way. And I don't feel, number one, like, it's having a positive impact on me. And number two, like, I don't think that they actually care about me. And so that's when it gets a little messy, is when it's not a mutual thing. And you can tell that they actually don't even care about you at all. And, you know, it's a part of it again, like, it's a part of it. And so I, in retrospect, now that I'm far away from all people or all things that could ever put me in a spot where I would be used or would feel taken advantage of in some way, like, now that I'm far away from those things and I can look back at those moments when I did feel that way and I was wrapped up in those things, I forgive because I understand that, you know, it's like we're all just trying to prove that we deserve to have dropped out of college or to have dropped out of high school or to have moved to LA.

Like, we're all just trying to make it happen. And so if somebody thought that they could benefit from me in some way, yeah, that's not nice of them. But also, I understand where their head was at. And I'm able to forgive now, when.

You say you're able to forgive, so you've been burned by people. And, like, again, so not saying so surface, but not going to into actual detail. Like, when you say burned, like, can you give an example? Like, was it someone asking you to be in a video? Was it someone asking to come in your videos? Was it someone a brand deal? Like, what are you referring to?

There was, like, a few instances where, you know, people would want me to appear in their videos, for example. And, you know, I would be like, I can't today because, like, I need to be working and I need to, like, I have to be. And they'd be like. And, you know, maybe because they were more successful than me in some ways or whatever, when they would be like, you have to. I would be like, okay, you know, and so I was young and very yes man when I first moved to LA. So if somebody and these, like, youtubers who are maybe more established, I think that they knew that they could kind of push me around a little bit, not only on camera, but off as well, just by, you know, like, they just knew that I was really also still kind of a fan of everyone. I think they could sense that as well. So a lot of people, I think, knew that they could take advantage of me and that it would be fine. And listen again. It's fine. Like, I get it, but I'm also like. But it still sucked in it.

It made me a lot less productive and it made me depressed because I felt like just an object in some ways, which, again, I don't think that was their intent, but I felt like I was just like a fucking drone. A corporate drone. You know what I mean? Like a YouTube corporate drone. Right. And I honestly would say that the ways that I was burned the most, though, were, like, more personal ways. Like, the ways that just, like, people who were, like, kind of bullies to me, like, behind the scenes, like, you would never, like, not necessarily on camera, but, like, most of the shit that was, like, bad was, like, behind the scenes where it's just, like, shitty friends. Yeah, blank. You know what I mean?

And I feel like when you're also saying that, would it also. But it would always somehow tie back to content.

Well, I mean, I think that our friendship was based in Kanye. You know, a lot of the times it was like, what was our friendship without content? Yeah. Like, if we weren't friend. Like, if we weren't making content together, would we be friends? It's hard to say. Yeah.

I think a lot of people aren't able to, obviously aren't privy to that information on the Internet. You see these people? They're hanging out. My God, they're new friends. Most the relationships that I have seen in LA are transactional, a thousand percent. I don't know. A lot of people that, like, genuinely, when we're all home, like, for, like, holidays, like, those people are not conversing.

Yeah.

Being like, hey, girl. Like, how are you doing? Like, it's not like that. It's all based on, we're back in LA. You want to shoot a TikTok?

Yes.

And it. And. And you're promoting. I remember doing it in the beginning of my show when I co host. It was like, we were promoting being, like, best friends. We had met, like, three months before, of course, and it was like.

But it.

You sell this, like, fun lifestyle and it doesn't look great. I guess people think that if you're sitting, standing with someone that doesn't have followers, that's actually your friend from your hometown, right? No one's interested in that. But if you're standing next to. If I'm standing next to Tana Mongeau, that is logistically gonna get more downloads and views than if my friend Jackie from home is gonna be next to me.

Like, who's that bitch? Yeah. So there is.

Is, like, an incentive to create these dynamics, but it's really dark.

Well, it's interesting because, actually, some of the friendships were, like, quite close friendships, where we were talking a lot, some of them not, but, like, some of them genuinely were close like that. But the question still remains, would we be friends if we weren't making content together when we were together? Right. And it's like, that's kind of where it gets foggy, right? Because it's like, we were really close, but if we weren't making content together, like, would we be hanging out? Would we even care to check in on one another? You know what I mean? Where was the intent?

When did those type of dynamics. When did you wake up and they stopped?

It happened, like, one by one, I would say. Like, I would have kind of realization about just. And it wasn't like anything. Some of them, there was, like, moments where it was like, a blow up where I was just like, fuck you. You know? Like, this is just like, not like, you are using me. I can tell. Fuck you. But then other moments, it was like. It was more just like a drift away where I was like, you know what? How was our friendship off camera. And if the friendship was, like, not good, then I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna back away. And I've always been somebody where I'm like, I don't feel much sadness. If a friendship's not, like, positive, I'm. I will be the first one to fucking cut it off. And just because. What's the point, you know? Even if we're profiting off of our friendship, even if we're not, even if it's a private friendship, both, I will, like, walk away with no remorse if I feel like it's right. And so that I kept that principle for all friendships, you know, throughout my teen years.

Have you ever stayed in a friendship longer for fear of the public perception and the fallout?

Yes. Like, I've definitely. Like, I've definitely struggled to cut off public friendships a lot more. Public friendships have always been harder to kind of back away from, even if it was, like, what needed to happen for all parties, you know? Like, it's definitely harder because you're, like, God, like, you know, even if this ended civilly or even if it fucking didn't. Yeah, we, you know, I don't want someone else, the other party, to get in trouble by the court of public opinion for our friendship ending. Because even, let's say they did the worst shit. Let's say they were such an asshole to me. They're gonna pay enough with their own conscience, you know? I don't think it's necessary to have the world knowing about that too.

What do you get anxiety about in general? Like, what are the main things that give you anxiety?

I would say the main thing that gives me anxiety is the pub is something happening where my character is portrayed incorrectly and it being believed. Right. And me not feeling like I'm able to say this is not me because I know, like, I don't care what anybody says, I'm not a fucking bad person. So. And I know that. And I know that because I have too much of a conscience. Like, I. The guilt I feel about everything. I can't do bad shit. Like, I. Because I just. My guilt and conscience is so strong that, like, I almost wish I had less of that because I actually feel guilty about things that I don't need to feel guilty about. And it sucks, you know, like, but I know that I'm not a bad person, but I do sometimes fear that something will get in the. Somebody will even spread a rumor about me that's not real and that will become known as fact. And I know how things work on the Internet where it's like, people aren't digging into every single story that they see. So if, like, a bad story that comes out about me comes out, people see it, they're just going to take it as fact and let's say a week later it's proven.

Oh, that's not true. Like, Emma. Emma didn't hit an old person in the street. Like, people are still gonna remember the article that they saw, where they said, where they said that I did. And that's what freaks me out is that, you know, I don't always feel like I'm able to defend myself, and I also don't always want to, and I also can't go in and defuse every rumor about myself. I would be, fuck it. That's all I would ever do. You know what I mean? If I went and addressed every fucking rumor or every fake blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about me, you know, I wouldn't. That would be actually my full time job. So, like, I can't do it, and so it's just like, this process of trying to figure out, like, you know, like, I just feel so out of control of the public perception of me because somebody could go and lie about me tomorrow. And you know what the other thing is I don't. Like? Let's say I did do something fucked up. Let's say I did push an old lady in the street. Let's say I was having a really bad day.

Who knows? There's not a lot of room for having a bad day. There's not a lot of room for making a one off mistake. And even if that's not something that reflects my character, how am I. I can apologize and say, this is not me all I want, but everybody does that in. How do people even know that I'm being honest, you know? So it's like. It kind of feels like a witch hunt in a way. And I think that in some areas, like, yeah, criticism is necessary, absolutely. But I think that sometimes, like, people love it, and so they want to feed the drama, and I don't want to be the butt of that. And listen, it's happened. You survive. But it just fucking sucks. And it sucks even more when it's not true or it's not a representation of you as a person. And people make blanket statements like, oh, we heard Emma did this one time. Emma is now evil all around. You know, there was, like, a rumor that I was a bully in high school. And I remember I was like, okay. And I saw, like, a girl from my high school made a TikTok that was fully not true.

It was fully not true about, like, me saying some mean shit during class, like, made up this whole, like, fake story. I'm like, girl, I. We went to all girls school. We were, like, nerdy. Like, nobody was bullying each other in high school. Is there a chance that I excluded somebody in high school? Is there a chance that I maybe made a snarky remark to someone in high school? Fuck, yes, there is. There's a great chance that I probably did that. Sometimes I woke up too early. I was in a bad fucking mood, sure. But I never did anything evil. I know that for a fact. And you know what? If I did, I'm sorry. I don't know. I don't remember. Do you fucking remember what you did in high school? No. Nobody fucking remembers. And we're also kids. It's like kids playing in a fucking knife drawer. We're all learning how to be good people, and you're gonna fuck up in that process, but it's the fact that, you know, my identity is in the hands of, like, everyone who's ever met me and everybody who's ever seen me do anything. And I don't have control over that.

And the psychological damage is quite. It is crazy, but also, I signed up for it. So here we are. You know what I mean?

Most people listening to this podcast right now are the ones that you're referring to as your boss. My boss, yeah. They're listening to this and they're going to make a decision.

Yeah.

Do we like Emma Chamberlain?

Right?

Does the daddy gang like Emma Chamberlain?

And.

And I'm sure. Okay, if you guys don't know, and I'm sure vice versa, there's gonna be people that are like, why? There's people that don't like me. And they'll be like, why did Emma go on Alex's show? And it's like, people are unforgiving and ruthless on the Internet. And not only that, they are excited when there's drama. Like, there are. There have been episodes where people are like, I'm gonna cancel you for having that person on your show. Yeah, but does it say more about me for having them on? Why are those episodes the most downloaded, though?

Of course.

So that's actually. You guys are listening. You are the ones ingesting it. You're clicking on it. I don't know. It's a scary industry a little bit to be in right now.

I agree. And I think the other thing is, is that there's a difference between, you know, somebody doing something genuinely bad, right. And something genuinely bad and having an intent that's like, I actually, like, want to hurt people, you know? Cause that happens on the Internet. You know, you see people fuck up and do things that genuinely, directly harm people, and they actually had the intent of harming people. Right. I never, on my whole time on the Internet, have ever posted something with the. With a negative intent. Right. Now, listen, if I do something that is perceived in a way where it's like, Emma, that's not right. And here's why, that's fine. I'm willing to, like, learn. I'm always open minded, you know, and I think critic, constructive criticism, there's nothing wrong with it. This could have been perceived in a way that was offensive and hurtful. I totally get that. Then it's like, okay, well, we'll go from there and thank you for letting me know. Let's move on. Like, I didn't have that intent, but I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm so glad that you know, you let me know. Yeah.

I'm so happy to do better next time and to be more aware of how this could be perceived wrong.

But it's when people are like, oh, no, you're done.

You're done. Because even though you had no idea what you were doing and even though it was a complete, complete 200% accident, you're still done because you made a mistake. That is such fucking uncharted territory. How are you supposed to predict? It's like, I could fucking, like, put on deodorant in a video, and I feel like at this point, somebody's gonna be like, you're offending people that don't want to wear deodorant. Like, it.

No, literally.

You know what I mean? It's like, I understand that, like, you have to. If somebody does something wrong, holding them accountable is fair and in some actually places, very good. I've learned so much from being on the Internet and from people being like, hey, when you talk about this like this, that's not cool. And I've been like, damn, I would have never known that otherwise. Thank you. Like, truly, like, I'm grateful for that. But it's when it's like people twisting shit just for funsies and not giving me room to be, like, it just discourages me, and it just makes me. Yeah, it makes me want to disappear. Yeah. You know?

How has your brand evolved?

When I first started on the Internet in general, I was just kind of copying what all the girlies were doing, you know, I was like, okay, I'll talk about makeup and clothes. Clothes and things like that. And then that wasn't really lighting my soul on fire. So then I was like, I'm gonna start vlogging. And I just started vlogging, and then I vlogged for years. I mean, I was like, you know, just, like, filming random shit. Like, whatever I thought was, like, funny or interesting or random at the time, I was just filming it. And so in some, like, more concept based videos, too, like, stuff where I was, like, going to children's place and trying to pick out a cute outfit, you know, like, shit like that. Yeah. And just, like, having fun with whatever I kind of had. No, I was like, my baseline theme on my channel is me. So, like, whatever happens, I'm just, like, the main theme of it, which. I mean, what kind of, like, self centered idiot 16 year old you have to be to think that that's gonna. I know, right? I'm like, damn, it's about me.

I'm like, it's about me. Okay, that's it. My. What's your channel about, babe? It's about me. Tune in, bitch. I promise you'll love it. No, but really, that was it. And then I think within the past, like, year or so, I've been trying to kind of make my content a little bit more mature because I'm more mature, you know? So, like, on my podcast, I've been talking about more serious topics. And on my YouTube, you know, the last few videos I made were very, like, more just, like, chill and toned down and just relaxed and, like, not super based on, like, a gimmicky kind of concept. Like, just kind of just me existing and doing whatever and, like, editing the videos myself in a way that I felt was, like, calming and more mature to watch, I would say. Because I just don't think that, like, I want to be making, you know, I have to evolve the things that I'm putting out or I'll still seem in genuine. They have to evolve with me or else it's, like, not gonna work. Right.

You mentioned kind of having an identity crisis. You have an entire life to live. How do you see this public Persona that you created basically as a child?

Yeah.

Evolving into adulthood.

This is something I've been thinking about a lot because I think that the last four years or whatever of me being on the Internet, you know, I. When it came to my career, I was just in autopilot. I was just, like, pumping shit out, and it was coming from my heart still, but it was like I was just kind of, like, on go go go mode. So I wasn't thinking about anything too deeply. And I also wasn't thinking about. I definitely wasn't thinking about my own personal identity. When no one's around and I'm by myself and I look in the mirror, who is that? I was so focused on working 24/7 for the past four years that I was teetering between having no thoughts and being burnt out and just feeling like I was, like, dying because I just could not look at a final cut pro one more fucking time. Right. But then also moments of just, like, absolutely just busting shit out and, like, it was just, like, back and forth teetering. That left no time for me to ever have a free moment to be like, okay, wait, who am I outside of all this?

So for the fat. For the past four years, you know, I've just been on the. In this hamster wheel of working and working and working and working and working and, you know, kind of exploiting myself at times to just do as much as I possibly could, especially because I started to get so many opportunities that I was excited about. I was like, well, I don't want to say no. You know what I mean? Like, I, like, I want to do everything, but you can't do that. But I didn't know that at the time. So I was spreading myself so thin and giving myself no time to sit back and be like, okay, wait, who the fuck are you? Who the fuck are you? And within the past, I would say honestly, especially two or three months, I've been having a lot of, like, psychological struggles because I'm like, I'm now having to figure out, like, refine my identity after, like, shoving it away for the past four years, ignoring it, and just putting that on the back burner. It's like now I'm left being like, I don't even know what fulfills me, what excites me, what, you know, makes me feel like I have purpose outside of my work.

I don't know what it is because I've not let myself go there. I didn't have the time to go there. And so that's kind of what I'm figuring out now. And, you know, I've gotten to a place where it got so dark for me, you know, even recently, that I was like, well, I don't fucking care if everything goes away. I'm like, I don't care because I'm so. I'm so disconnected from myself that, like, I need to refine that. And if. When I'm ready to come back to the Internet fully, and if. When I'm ready to, like, you know, get back into the swing of things, like, if people don't want to watch anymore, if people don't care anymore, I need to do what I gotta do. It's impossible to develop your identity and be online at the same time because developing your identity means silence. You need silence. You need alone time. You need to be intimate with people. You know, you need all of these types of things that do not align with being a fucking youtuber or even being a podcaster. You know, I think podcast is like, when it comes to personal identity, it's easier especially too, because, like, they can't always see you.

There's something nice, but I don't know. But with YouTube specifically, it's like trying to develop your personality and simultaneously continue to be consistent on the Internet. It's like you cannot do both because you have to have a fully formed something to show.

Did you ever watch Harry Potter?

You know, I did okay.

Did you watch their reunion?

No.

Emma, you need to watch it. I don't know if anyone listening is a Harry Potter fan, but some people may consider me, like, slytherin. I'm more of, like, a gryffindor. Hufflepuff.

You're giving me Gryffindor through and through, and I like. And I don't say that about many.

People, like Slytherin, bitch. I'm like, no, I'm hufflepuff. Like, no, I'm not.

You're not hufflepuff. You're Gryffindor.

Anyways, it is fascinating because Emma Watson, Daniel Radcliffe, and I think it was Ron who was like, I love how I'm calling the. See, I'm even calling them by those names of the characters.

Of course, they literally said they were.

Like, when we stopped the movies.

I.

Genuinely felt uncomfortable when people called me my real name. I didn't feel like I could even identify with that name totally. Child stars or child performers or now Internet kids that come up on the Internet, they are losing some of their identity in the characters that they're portraying. How did the growth of Emma Chamberlain stop when Emma Chamberlain, the Internet character, was born?

You know, I wouldn't say that, like, my growth completely stopped because, you know, it's like, I was still growing. I, for the last four years, made my entire purpose in life to, like, at a certain point, I was like, my entire purpose is to now succeed at this and take it as far as I can and enjoy it while I'm doing it. Right. And so I put away and threw away all other purposes that I had even brewing in me. I was like, I don't give a fuck about anything else. I'm throwing all of my eggs in this. In this basket. You know what I mean? I want to make. This is my only purpose. And then now I'm at a place where I've arrived at what I wanted to happen, and now I'm left with this feeling where I'm like, this is fucking amazing. And I'm so happy that I'm here, but I don't have any more goals in this area, right? Don't have any more thing. I don't want to get more followers. I don't want to get more views. I don't care about that shit anymore, you know? Like, at a certain point, I was like, I would love to grow this as big as I can.

Like, whatever. Now I'm like, I don't really think it needs to go any bigger. Like, I'm good. You know what I mean? I'm fine with it, how it is now. So I'm having to, like, figure out now what things will give me purpose outside of this, and it's a fucking hard pill to swallow. I didn't. I. You know, I'm like, I'm 20, and I'm like, where I have to now, I have to find a whole new purpose. But also, everybody is looking at me and is like, look at that. Like, you know, but you. But you have this to look at. And I'm like, I need something bigger and deeper for myself that might not have anything to do with the Internet. You know what I mean? I just don't know what that is yet. And so that's been something that I've been struggling with is, like, you know, I haven't had time to, like, you know, do hobbies or whatever, but the other thing is, is that I'm now in a routine where, like, I don't really have a lot of inspiration to do things that don't involve my work, which is a weird thing that, like, because my work in my hobbies became one.

Right, right. So, like, I don't have, like, the desire to do other little hobbies that, like, my brain convinces me are pointless to do. You know what I'm saying?

Well, and also your job.

Yeah.

Has flowed in not only to, like, your purpose and your hobby, but it's also flowed into, like, your actual lifestyle and living every part of my life. You can't go. You're not even 21. But if once you're 21, you can't go to a bar and not get recognized. And what you do in that bar is a direct reflection on your job, which is your purpose. And so every single aspect of your life is wrapped up basically in your job.

Yeah.

Which for some people is very normal. And for some people, it's like, oh, I work a 95, and when fucking Friday hits, I am a different beast on the weekend. You don't have a weekend.

Yeah, it's. It's honestly, like, everything in my life is melded into one where it's, like, my job, my social life, or lack thereof most of the time, because I'm too anxious. But, like, you know, every element of my life is all connected. You know, I don't have a separation of things. And because of that, it all feels like everything could fall apart if I just pushed the wrong domino, and it could just all fucking fall down. Like, you know, it's. It's. Everything feels very fragile, which is why I'm now like, okay, I can't have all my eggs in this basket. I want to continue doing this. This is, you know, my passion and something that I. I enjoy doing this stuff, right? But I have to find a life outside of it and solidify that life and, like, make that life something where I'm not so worried about what people think of me on the Internet. I'm not so worried about, you know, if this all went away tomorrow, because I do have this life outside of it. That's so rich that it doesn't matter.

Walk me through social anxiety now with this platform.

It is. I mean, of course, like, I do love meeting people. I mean, I really do. And I'm. I am generally a social person. I would say, like, I'm. I don't really get social anxiety about talking to people. Like, if somebody comes up, I mean, there's been moments when it's been, like, kind of overwhelming or something, just because it was, like, you know, I was late to something or blah, blah, blah. I always, you know, the actual interaction itself is always pleasant. You know, the only thing that I'm paranoid about is people who don't maybe like me and see me in public and they are, like, want to film me or are, like, watching me and, like, making fun of me behind my back. Like, it's the fact that I could be anywhere and somebody might recognize me and I might not actually know that they know me. If somebody comes up to me and, like, says, oh, my God, like, what's up? You know? Like, that's sweet. I don't actually mind that. It's. It's the fact that I don't know when I'm a. Not when I'm just another human being drifting through the street or when somebody is watching me because they've seen me before.

That is what makes me anxious, and that's what makes it hard, you know, because I'm constantly feeling like I'm being surveillanced, whether I know it or not.

What are you doing, though? Like, tangibles, in order to try to find and redefine and that identity that you're looking for?

I think a big step in it was deciding, like, that I'm gonna probably step back from YouTube. Okay. You know, just because I will say that. And, I mean, I don't know. I'm not making anything definite, right? I'm just like, this is just where I'm at now. I take it day by day, that's what I have to do, or else I lose my mind. But I do, like, for me, doing a weekly podcast is something that I can do because, I mean, it's very much me sitting in bed and just talking. But I also that by stepping back from YouTube, I have a lot more free time so that I can figure out, okay, maybe I want to, like, you know, who knows what I want to do, but, like, I might want to do something else that's creative that I can create for, you know, the world to hopefully enjoy if they decide to enjoy it. Like, it gives me room to explore, number one, like, what I could do next in my career. But also it gives me more time to, like, develop friendships properly. Cause I also, you know, don't like to have people in my videos or in my.

On my podcast or anything. Cause I just gives me too much anxiety and I like it just to be me. And so, you know, it caused me to push a lot of people away. Cause I couldn't combine work and play. You know, I had to keep those very separate. And so because of that, it was like, I didn't hang out with people very often. So I'm taking this time to just, like, have as much free time as possible and just let myself get really bored and, like, see what I do to entertain myself.

I also hear when you're saying you're gonna give yourself that freedom to find things you like, but then don't grab the camera and film it for content. Like, no, it's yours. Let it be yours. Let a hobby be yours. And don't be like, oh, this would make a good vlog.

Yes.

Like, there's gotta be a line for yourself. Like, no. Cause then you're working. Like, do it for yourself. I can already feel, like, the tension. You're like, fuck, I know. And I know I've done it, too, where I'm like, oh, that was such a fun moment. And then I have to exploit it on my podcast. And I'm like, it's hard.

And I think I have to be strict with myself and be like, emma, like, you know, you can do your podcast, but you can't be posting videos and be trying to figure out who you are and what you enjoy to do when the camera's off, if the camera's still fucking on every week, you just can't figure it out. So, you know, I don't know, like, what's, like, yeah, I'm constantly, like, changing my. Like, I'm like, oh, now I'm doing this. Oh, wait, now I'm doing this. Like, I'm all over the place, right?

Dude, you're 20 as you should be right.

So it's like I, but I just don't think. I also don't know if I feel like there might be something else out there that might excite me career wise and might light me, light my soul on fire, you know? Like there's something out there that I might be missing and so I want to have a little bit of time to explore that and see, like, what I want to do next. That's going to be exciting to me. I think that's amazing.

So, yeah, in terms of growing up basically on the Internet, you have presented a very, like, pc brand and no sex. No, like, we don't even know. Like, has Emma Chamberlain ever had sex? Has she ever kissed a boy? Has she ever given, like, we don't know.

Right.

How has people's fascination with your sexuality affected your sexuality?

Yeah, it's really interesting because I always, I struggled with my sexual identity growing up as well because as I mentioned earlier, like, I was just a late bloomer and I just also wasn't like an ultra feminine girl and I've never been like a super stereotypically feminine woman, but yet, like, I am a straight woman. Like, that's what I am. But, like, no one ever, like, I've always gotten like, shit for that, you know? And people have growing up too, you know, like, people being like, that's not true. And I'm like, you guys, like, why? And I mean, listen, like, I don't ever want to complain. Like, sexuality is such a tough and, like, intimate and emotion filled subject that, like, I don't want to complain about people like, you know, questioning my sexuality because I know it can be so much worse and so much more complex. So I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but at the time I was like, you know, people, like, I remember my ex boyfriend was like, we were dating and like, one of his friends like, was like, dude, like, she doesn't actually like you. Like she, I don't think she actually likes you.

Like, she's, I think she likes girls. Like, I don't think she likes you. And then he came to me and told me that and I was like, why the fuck would you say that? Like, just why the fuck would you say that? Like, why are you assuming that? Like, cuz that's not true. And if it was true, so fucking be it. But, like, why is this, like, why are people speculating? Like, I'm, like, I'm dating it.

Like, why do you think he thought that?

So he actually told my ex boyfriend why he thought this, and it was because I didn't wear makeup, and I did, and I wore sweatpants a lot. So all of a sudden now I'm, like, not allowed to like boys? I was like, shut. Like, holy fuck. I mean, seriously, like, just stupid. And, I mean, I've always thought, like, I mean, I get it. We're humans. Like, we're curious about other humans. And so I don't think it's like, I don't think there's anything wrong with. Within the privacy of your own mind to look at somebody else and be like, hmm, I wonder this, this or that about their sexuality. If you do that within the safety of your own mind, totally fine, sure. But don't go to my boyfriend and be like, dude, like, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Like, that's so fucking rude.

Did that affect your relationship then, with your boyfriend in terms of psychologically for you? Was it always.

I was like, well, all of a sudden now I feel like I need to start being, like, not myself. Like, this is me, right? You know what I mean? This is just who I am.

Like, trying to prove now you're straight. Like, no, I do like guys. I do like you.

Yeah. And I'm like, why the fuck should I have to prove that anyway?

Nobody should ever have to prove shit about never.

It's like, it's so incredibly nobody's business, which is, I think, why, like, I've always kind of been afraid of getting into it is just because I'm like, sexuality is also something that has ebbs and flows too. Like, some moments you're like, oh, my God, I'm on it like a roll. I'm just, like, hooking up with everybody and, like, I just. Whatever. And sometimes you're like, I literally can't remember the last time I felt, like, any kind of excitement about anything sexually. Like, there's so many moments, things are constantly evolving there. But I also think that I'm just not somebody where actually, let me rephrase. Because I was a very late developer as a young person, and because I didn't get any attention from guys, really, for my appearance, I definitely became used to getting attention from what I was talking about and, like, what I was and how I was behaving. And, like, that was what I started to lean into more because I was like, well, people don't. I don't have boobies, so, like, nobody's looking at me for my boobies. So, you know, I have to figure out some other way to get attention and so that kind of became muscle memory where I was like, well now I just feel like nobody's ever looking at me and is like looking at me in a sexual way.

So in order to like get attention I just have to like utilize my personality and then hope that like through that somebody will be able to be attracted to me in a more sexual way. Like if they maybe like, like me personality wise. So that's kind of what I became used to. But it always made me feel shitty because I was like, I just don't think guys are looking at me and are like looking at me in a sexual way ever. And that fucked with me because I was like, but, but why? Like, you know what I mean? I was like, this sucks. And even now that I'm older and like I, like my boob has grown like maybe like this much, like, like a tiny little, tiny bit. But now that I'm older, you know, it's like even though like that's not really as much of an issue anymore, it's still, there's a little trauma there, you know, where in the back of my head I'm like number one. I remember people always not believing that I was like, that I was somebody who preferred dating men which like fucked with me. But then also like I have memories of like just guys not being attracted to me physically.

And then on top of that, like I'm also just not a super outwardly sexual person. Like I never present myself in a very outwardly sexual way. I'm just not comfortable doing that and I don't have, there's nothing wrong with doing that. I just, it's never felt right to me and I've always felt like, well, because I'm not an outwardly sexual person, like does that make me less attractive to in some ways, you know what I mean? So, but like that's just, it's so interesting though because the perception of me is, is so interesting for me to like watch. Like people are like, I've seen comments that are just like, there's just no way like Emma's ever had sex and I get it, but I get it. But then that fucks with me cuz I'm like, I get why they think that. So it like creeps me, you know what I mean?

I will admit I'm a tomboy and I have been my whole life and so my brand is weird because I was so over sexualizing myself totally that I felt imposter syndrome sometimes where I'm like, that's not actually the full truth. Like I don't. I'm not incredible in bed every night. That's the truth. Some days I'm really tired and, like. And so for me, it was, like, weird to acknowledge that. But for you, do you ever find yourself, like, pushing yourself to try to be more feminine so that you feel something? Like, does that make sense?

A thousand percent. I. I mean, my, like, experiences in. Throughout my life, actually, I haven't had, like, a lot of one off experiences. Like, I've mainly just been in relationships, which I think was good and bad. You know what I mean? Well, I think. Okay. I would say when it came to, like, any experience I've ever had in my life where it's been, like, a sort of one time thing, which hasn't actually happened a lot, but every time that it has, I feel like I've been able to kind of play a game where maybe I'm being a little bit more feminine because it's, like, it's just fun. Like, it's just fun. It's like, I can just, like, be whatever the fuck I want right now.

And it's like a fake confidence you give yourself.

Yeah.

Acting it out. You're like, I can be this way. I am.

You can't do that in a relationship.

No.

Because the fucking. The colors come out far too quick. So, like, I've never really been able to, like, play that game in a relationship. I definitely have done that in the few times that I've, like. Again, like, so it's happened, but never in relationships. But I found that in past relationships, I didn't feel as respected by guys that have dated in the past just because I feel like they kind of. Well, especially, like, one relationship in particular. But it was just like, I just felt like, you know, he was very critical of the fact that I, like, maybe wasn't a super feminine girl. And, like, sometimes he was like, oh, it's actually super cool and chill. And then sometimes he was like. He was like. Like, if I had, like, put on jeans and come over, he would be like, oh, my God. Like, you finally, like, put effort in. Like, that's crazy. Like, it was like.

And you're like.

And I'm like, dude, shut the. Like, I'm like. Or, you know, if I would be wearing makeup or whatever, it would be, like, a big deal. And, like, it would be like, oh, my God, you're wearing makeup. Like, whoa. You know what I mean? We're like. We're like, you should wear heels tonight. And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about, like, I'm like, no, like, I felt like I wasn't enough.

Yeah.

In, like, the areas that I was feminine weren't enough. So I felt like, you know, there was an effort to, like, make me more feminine to fit what they wanted, which is like, again, it's like we were fucking kids. We were. All my relationships happen, you know, at such young ages that it's like, of course there's gonna be shit like that.

Yeah.

But I would say I'm fully comfortable now in, like, what areas I'm more feminine and what areas I'm more masculine because I simply just getting into a relationship where my masculine and feminine traits are appreciated. But also, like, you know, dating somebody who, like, just doesn't care about that shit and is just, like, enjoys people for, like, being a person like that. It's like. And less about, like, and also it's, like, kind of similar to me in the sense where, like, maybe not the super traditional, super masculine, super feminine. Like, that's not playing any roles in our relationship. Yeah. You know, so.

And that's what it is, is, like, anyone listening, like, sometimes it just takes finding the right partner that you don't need to change yourself. No, you just need to find someone that, like, aligns with making you feel like you can be 100% authentically yourself around them. And when you do that, it's a. It's a beautiful place to be in.

It really is.

So this is. Call her daddy.

Yes, I have had sex. Alex.

Can you tell me, would. Can you tell me when you lost your virginity or no?

Yeah.

Okay.

I was. I've never talked about this on the Internet. This is so fun.

This is call her daddy and I'll get roasted.

I also, like, in my personal life, I talk about sex all the time. That's why it's so fucking weird for me that I never talk about it. Like, I'm not. Like, I talk about it all the time, so it's, like, not.

And you're not saying in your show you just mean in real life?

Yeah, like, in real life, I'm. I am. Like, I talk about it all the time.

So weird thing, that time you were talking about it with me.

Yeah.

Saying, like, even just sex. She's not like, Emma's not like an info.

Like, I have so much sex, you guys.

But, like, I was surprised. I remember on that zoom how naturally you discussed just like, oh, yeah. Like, I loved that. Like, I've listened to your show and I like. And I was like, oh, shit. I had no fucking idea your brand is very specific, and it's not that you're avoiding it. It's just. It's not talked about.

Well, that's the thing. It's like, if something's not talked about, then how are you supposed to, like, know how someone. Where someone stands on a topic and it's interesting because. Yeah, I just, like, it's so bizarre to, like, talk about it, but it's also kind of fun.

Okay.

Because I feel like I'm old enough now. Like, I'm finally where I get to talk about it.

Like, the Disney Channel effect, it was like when Miley Cyrus was like, I have to go to the such extreme and go, like, dance on a pole because, like, everyone sees me as a baby and I need them to not see me as that.

Meanwhile, she was like, probably, like, fucking smoking weed on set. Hannah Montana. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's. There's so many things that, like, the.

Perceptions can pigeonhole you and it. And then it does affect your identity. And so I can feel you being like, hey, guys, like, I'm 20. Yeah, I can say I've had sex before.

Yeah, that's okay.

Even though your publicist may be like, don't say that.

I don't think. But also, like, I. Yeah, okay.

So.

Oh, yeah.

Oh.

I was 17.

Great age.

It was actually a really not bad experience. Like, it was with a guy that I was, like, seeing at the time that I was pretty comfortable with. And, I mean, he was definitely, like, you know, he had had sex lots of times, and I obviously hadn't, but he was, like, great. He, like, really, like, I don't know. It was just like, it was one of the most jarring experiences for me, though, in my entire life, because it was one of those things where it was something I just, like, never believed was possible for myself because I, you know, growing up, I had these experiences of people, like, you know, doubting my sexuality. You know, I even had moments where, like, I was kind of, like, I don't even know if I like anyone. Like, I went through phases where I was like, I feel nothing towards anyone. And, like, I don't even know if, like, I'm ever going to, like somebody enough to, you know, let them in like that. And I also was like, I don't feel like anybody wants to do this with me. You know? Like, I've never been. Nobody's ever looked at me in a sexual way before, at least to my face.

So, like, I don't think that this is possible. Yeah, and so when it was happening, I was like, oh, it was so. It was. I was like, this is just, like. Feels like everything's, like, shifting in my. You know, because I was like, damn, this is, like, a new chapter. And I felt I had weirdly, like, imposter syndrome with it. Right. Because I was like, I don't feel like I'm like, are you sure that you want to do this? I'm like, no, I don't know why you want to do this. And also, I had a huge crush on this guy at the time, so, like, you know, it was even more crazy for me. And in retrospect, I can look back and be like, no. Like, I. Like, I was being hard on myself, and I didn't need to be like that. But, I mean, it hurt really bad, that's all. Dude, I don't.

No one should ever be like, my first time was incredible.

Like, no, it was so awful. We didn't even have sex. Right. It's like.

It's like a movement, and then you're like, all right, we did it because it's like, one you. No one has. You're not having orgasm. Yeah, it's not gonna fit. You're. You're not experienced. You don't know what you're supposed to be doing. You don't know what you're supposed to be feeling. It's almost like, let me just get through this. Not in, like, a creepy way. It's more just, like, no one's going to be relaxed and chill.

It doesn't get fun until you're, like, older. Older, yes. And even, like, then, like, there's always more to learn.

Always. And really, I think the weird thing is, is, like, the. As I've learned through my show, is, like, it really starts with yourself. And a lot of people don't feel comfortable starting sexually with themselves until you get a little bit older.

Right.

Because there's, like, a lot of weird shame. And especially if you haven't felt this, like, feminine, sexual energy, you're so in your head that to even, like, be by yourself and masturbating, you're already thinking outside of your body.

Yes.

About how totally I'm not sexual. This is weird. What am I? And you get in your head.

Well, you also are like, it's so true. I mean, I've had moments, like, on a personal level, but also, like, with other people. Like, when I'm, you know, like, where I've just been. I've gotten into my head and been, like, almost embarrassed where I'm like, bitch, you are not. Stop. Like, stop being like, stop faking it.

Like, you're on top and you're like, I'm.

This isn't.

This doesn't feel genuine.

I'm like, I literally. I'm like, this is not. It feels like, out of character. Yes. And it doesn't feel like it aligns with me. And, like. And you want to. I hate going on top because I'm like, I don't have to fucking think about me. No, but I think.

I think it's okay to say in terms of, like, sexually, it's hard, especially growing up where there. I mean, I will admit, like, my show, as much as it probably gave women confidence, it also probably drew a big hole in people's sex lives, being like, wait, I don't do that. And, like, I've never. And then it's in. You get insecure.

Totally.

And again, porn and everything makes you feel like you've got to be this, like, sexual deviant.

Yeah.

And so when you're, like, again, like, a position, like, on top, eyes are on you and you're like, okay, so I know I'm supposed to start, like, moaning and then, like, I should, like, throw my head back and, like. But naturally right now, like, I feel a little out of body imposter syndrome of, like, yeah, I don't feel.

Feel like that yet. And it's so.

It's weird.

But also, like, if you're, like, for me personally, I'm not, like, I don't fucking, like, want to. It doesn't excite me to, like, do crazy shit, necessarily. I just don't. But it's like, people are very judgmental about if you're like, I'm not. I don't, like, I listen, it's not like I'm not a sexual person. There's definitely that side of me, but I also am, like, not a super sexual person. And, like, there are times when I'm like, I don't. It doesn't need to be this, like, whole crazy thing. Like, it's just. It just is what it is. And, like, I don't feel like I don't want to fucking perform. I don't want it. It just. And I think that the expectation to perform might actually end up being detrimental too, at times because you're like, it's all about, like, figuring out what the vibe is. And, like, if you're just like, well, the vibe doesn't feel like making really loud sounds right now, but I'm just gonna do it anyway. Cause I saw it in porn yesterday.

And then you get pattern, and then it's like.

But then it's, like, kind of like. But then it takes away from the intimacy of it. Yes. You should just disappear and, like, not think. Yes. And, like, let it happen. Yeah. And that's it. You just have to get out of your own way.

I will also say, like, I think when what you're saying is the majority and the norm, and. But people publicly don't admit that.

I know.

And so it's like. Let's just say it.

I will admit that. I, like, will enjoy.

Okay.

I know you're gonna hate what I was just about to say, so I'm just gonna say it. Wait, but should I say it anyways? What?

And then I'll cut it out on call her daddy.

I will admit that I enjoy vanilla sex. I think that's okay.

Like, you're not trying to, like.

You're not boring sex.

Like, you're not trying to, like, swing from the. I think that's totally fine.

What's wrong with, like, fucking, like, a.

Good missionary and then, like, one other position.

Go to bed. What is wrong with.

Nothing.

I don't need to fucking, like, literally do a helicopter background fucking. Right. Fuck. Flip all over. I don't want to do that. I also, like, feel like. Like. I mean, listen. Okay. Yeah. There's moments when you can be crazy. There's moments when you can be fun. I get it. That's, like, once in a blue moon. In reality, it doesn't need to be like that.

And I think it's also, like, I'm thinking about, like, the sex I was having at 20. Like, I'm excited for you because it's, like, into. At 20, I was faking things, and I was performing, and I knew, like, I. It was. It was all a game to me because I was like, if I do this, and he'll be obsessed with me, and then blah, blah, blah. And it was all right. It kind of all corresponded to, like, a bigger goal of mine. Not just, like, the immediate bedroom, but I do think as you get older and, again, as you get to know yourself sexually, you begin to, like, actually find things that you know you like. And then it's not even about vanilla sex. It's, like, what works for you. You can start to implement in the bedroom.

Totally.

Not like you're faking it, but you have to actually find those things by yourself. Okay, let's move on. Kate's like, I'm gonna. What gives you the ick? I'm gonna do come some rapid fire and then we're done. I know. This is going so long. We need to go. I know. Really go for six. No, no, I know. And I like that.

I agree. I do.

I think that also, like, is really. Yeah, it's, like, real and it's not, like, jarring. I thought you were gonna say something crazier, then I was like, oh, that's a good answer.

Emma loves anal. I'm kidding.

Promo of it. Okay, I'm gonna go rapid fire and then we're done.

I'm ready. What gives you the icky? With guys or in general?

Oh, both.

Okay. With guys. I get the ick when just like, any kind of, like, cockiness and bragging and, like, trying to, like, signal that they're, like, successful to me. This is not rapid fire with me. Nothing will ever be rapid fire with me. I'm so sorry. Being cocky and honestly, when people, like, just have bad taste in, like, clothing and fashion, feel.

Not that I'm doing Emma right now with my outfit.

I'm like. I'm not saying, like, if there's, like, a certain, like. But they're, like, braggy about it, so, like, got it. Being cocky about, like, having bad taste, that's really icky to me. It makes me have an ick every time.

Is that you?

That's not you. You're always hot. You always, like. You don't.

You're not allowed anyone wondering who we're talking to. It's our mutual publicity. On the right side, who's been crying this entire.

Who's also so gorgeous. So gorgeous and dressed like the hottest.

She's a full sweat outfit on whip heels. Like, yeah, they're like flared sweatpants.

No, she genuinely is slaying. And nobody can tell anyways.

Okay, have you ever been cheated on? You know, Emma, you're like, it can never be short.

Not technically, but, like, I've been in situations where it was maybe not right for people to be going out and they did.

Fair. Have you ever cheated on someone?

No.

What is the longest relationship you've ever been in?

A year and, like, ten months.

Is that the one you're in right now?

I will not say.

Okay, fine. Better question after that. Do you own a vibrator? Yes, I have one downstairs. It's in a box.

I got one when I was, like, 17.

That's amazing.

Who told you to get it?

You just got it yourself.

It was somebody I was talking to at the time.

Okay, what is the most hurtful thing someone has done to you? In a relationship.

I would say just not be supportive of things that I was doing. Simple things, like work stuff, what I decided to order on a menu. Like, just like being in a relationship where somebody was constantly disapproving of every little thing I was doing and, like, being genuinely mean about it.

Good answer. How is the relationship you're in now different from previous experiences with partners?

It's. I mean, so many. Everything about it. I mean, obviously being, like, best friends with your significant other is the best fucking thing ever, and I don't think that that's ever been true. Prior also, like, just the most, like, night. Like, incredible. I can't even. It's just like, it's almost like when you're in a good relationship, it's like you found somebody that's, like, a missing piece.

Yeah.

And, like, they just have all the things that you wish you had and you learn from them and they learn from you, and they treat you with respect, and there's a mutual respect, and it's like, all these things, and it's like, also your best friend, and then it all comes together and you're like, I don't have any complaints, and I don't know how that's possible, you know?

Could you share? What do you argue about in this relationship? Not a lot.

We don't argue.

Can I ask you how you guys met?

Through the Internet.

Why do you think fans have become so invested with gaining access and insight into your dating life?

I think that, like, even for me, like, as a consumer of the Internet, like, things are interesting when there's mystery around them. And because I don't ever confirm or deny anything, that's why I think it's so interesting. It's almost like if I were to share it, it would become possibly less interesting. But the problem is, is that I want to protect the people that I'm dating or the people that I'm, like, even just lightly talking to or the people that I'm hooking up with, like, whoever it is at whatever given moment, like, even at whatever stage it's at, I want to give them complete privacy, and I don't want my life to, like, affect them.

Are you frustrated when you do? See, like, if, like, God forbid, like, a paparazzi thing comes out of you, like, how does that make you feel?

I mean, for me personally, I'm like, I don't care. Like, I mean, I. It's more like I'm concerned about how it affects them, and I don't ever want to, like to lose an opportunity to, like, have a good connection with somebody because my life style creates them stress. Right. And that's something I've, like, worried about in, like, relationships that I've been in that have been positive. I'm like. I just, like, I'm scared that this is gonna get out because I don't want them to feel violated and, like, they didn't sign up for this. Like, you know what I mean? And so that's why I keep it private. But also, if things come out or things are speculated about, most of the time, people that I've been with are people that I haven't been with, where it's been speculation, and they're like, this is silly, right? But I just decided to talk about none of it because I'm like, if it's true or it's not, it doesn't fucking matter. Because if I chime in about stuff when it's not true, then that means everything.

I don't choose smart.

I just leave it all to the imagination. And honestly, it's kind of fun to see. It's kind of fun to see, like, what people assume. So, yeah. Okay.

Wrapping up in 30, 40 years, what do you hope people say about Emma Chamberlain?

I would hope that people would say that in one way or another, like, something that I said, something that I shared, made them feel inspired or made them feel comforted in some way. Like, that's my main goal, is I want people to feel comfortable and heard by listening to me, but also kind of, like, safe in a way, too.

Emma Chamberlain. Thank you for. Dude, it's been a long time.

I'm sweating. Dude.

I am dehydrated. My legs are cramping.

We're mess.

You look great.

I'm you literally. Well, I mean, that was. This has just opened up a whole new chapter for me.

Hours and 42 minutes is gonna be another two part series.

I wait. We needed this, though. I could have kept going.

I do feel. Yeah, it was, like, therapeutic.

Yeah. We need great work. Thank you, Alex. Thank you for having me.