Hi, everyone. It's Alex. Happy Friday. I am so excited because I have started through this thing, flashback Fridays on the podcast. I recognize that, obviously, since I was exclusive to Spotify for three years, some of you may have missed some episodes that were only uploaded to Spotify. So I figured, let me curate a little playlist for you guys on Fridays of some of my all time favorite episodes that maybe you didn't get to check out, or maybe you did listen. But guess what? You're gonna listen again, because it's just that good. So today I am re releasing the Kristen Cavalieri episode. I am so obsessed with this woman. You guys have to understand, I fucking love reality television. I love tv. I'm just obsessed. And the ogs of it all is Kristen Cavalieri. I remember sitting, binging Laguna beach, binging the OC, and being like, okay, I just want to be Kristen Cavalieri. She's so fucking hot. She's so cool, she's so smart, she's so savvy, and she's just a fucking good ass time. And so when I met her, I wouldn't say I was nervous when she walked into the studio, but I think when I have those people that I'm like, fuck, I'm such a huge fan of this person.

You want to hope that they're the.

Same as they present online and on the tv show. Daddy gang, when I tell you this woman is exactly how she presents on tv and online, I was so fucking happy.

I'm like, thank God.

I love you even fucking more now. She's so genuine, she's outspoken, she's funny, she's charismatic, she's beautiful. I was like, okay, Kristen, I fucking love you. So, daddy gang, I hope you enjoy. Let's kick off this glorious Friday with the best energy and vibes with Kristen Cavallari. This episode, I will say, is so fun. We talk about breakups and relationships ending and knowing your worth and knowing what you want. We talk, have. Kristen and I have one thing. Well, we probably have a lot of things in common, but one thing we have in common is we used to date athletes, and she married one at one point. And, you know, they come and go.

But we talk about it.

So have fun, enjoy. It's a girls girl episode, and I hope you have a fabulous, fabulous time listening. Enjoy. Love ya.

What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with. Call her daddy.

Daddy, daddy. Are we ready? Okay.

That laugh, I know it so well. It's, like, so weird to be in person with you.

Okay. Okay.

Kristen Cavallari, welcome to caller Daddy.

Thank you.

I have always been a huge fan. Laguna the hills owned all the dvds, would watch with my sister, would binge watch. But another reason I was super excited to have you on was because I follow you on social media.

Oh, thanks.

I respect everything you're doing, your career, but specifically with your children, you deciding to not really show them and keep that part of their life private, I really respect it.

Thanks.

How did you decide to take that approach and protect your children by keeping them off social media?

Well, thank you, because a lot of people don't understand it. But if you go back to when I first joined Instagram, Camden, my oldest, is on there when he was a.

Baby, a little bit.

Okay. And then we just decided that we wanted to give them the opportunity to make that know. My kids may want no part of being known or whatever, and I want to respect that and give them that chance to decide when they're old enough.

Yeah.

I feel like that's like a huge debate on social media because so many people with social media are posting, even, like, their infants.

Yeah.

And then there's the debate of like, wait, that's kind of fucked up because they don't have a say. And now their whole life is going to be documented, and then they're going to get to high school and people are going to be like, I have all these Instagram photos of you, but I think it's a really good decision, and I definitely want to do that when I have children. When do you think they'll get on social media?

I hope not until they're like 20.

You're like, I'm not giving them a phone.

They're never going to be 16. I'd say probably realistic and long enough where hopefully they have decently thick skin and can handle some criticism. Because ultimately, that's my biggest concern with it, is just how nasty people can be on social media.

Yeah.

And when it's your kids, it's like, I want to do everything to protect them.

David.

When you were growing up, but I'm curious, did you have aspirations at all to be on television?

I did, and it wasn't really until high school, but before MTV came, I wanted to study broadcast journalism and kind of work my way in the entertainment world through hosting. But then MTV came and everything just kind of fell in my lap. And I thought, when I graduated high school, I moved up to LA. I started at Loyola Marymont. I literally went to one class, like, literally one class. And then I booked a job on UPN, which you guys probably don't even remember that network, but it was a network back in the day. I was hosting a show, and so my excuse was, well, I'm traveling around the country. I obviously can't go to college. And not that I want to promote not going to college, but it's the best thing I ever could have done. College would have done nothing for me.

Right, because you already kind of had a career set in stone because you started in high school, which is not normal, especially for television. You're in high school now. We got to go through it.

Okay.

And MTV picks you to be on their new show. What did your parents say when you asked them if you could be on the show?

Well, so I was living with my dad in Laguna beach. My mom was in a suburb of Chicago. My mom definitely had reservations because of the time. MTV was a little scandalous at the know. That was right after the Janet Jackson boob thing happened at the Super bowl, and they didn't have the best rep. And so she was a little worried. But my dad was all for it. And because I lived with my dad, I'm pretty sure I only had to have my dad sign off on it.

You're like, mom, I'm not even doing it. Dad, why do you think your dad was okay with it?

I think he saw the opportunity. I mean, he just did. Well, also, none of us knew what the show was going to turn into. My dad, probably at the time, was like, oh, cute. A little home movie.

No problem. Have fun.

It literally probably was like a school, like, school project. Dad, it just happens to be from MTV, and it's crazy because reality tv, really, no one had gotten famous from that yet. So it was kind of like an undiscovered concept. So I can kind of understand where parents would be. Like, sure, yeah.

It wasn't like it is today. No one knew. I mean, totally. Obviously, there was the real world at the time. I think the simple life had already happened and maybe the Osbourne show, but other than that, there was nothing really. So, yeah, this was unchartered territory. We had no idea.

I'm trying to picture myself in high school getting cast on a show. I would have failed out.

I would have dropped out because how did you know?

You would have fucking crushed it. That's the point, though.

I would have been like, I'm obsessed. I get to go party with boys.

How the fuck that was me?

Okay, I was wondering, did it fully take over?

Your mean.

Yeah.

Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense that mean, that was like, what everyone in Laguna beach was talking about. We filmed every weekend for, like nine months or something. But because we were still in high school, I mean, I was actually going to class still. And so during the know, my life was normal. I was going to school, doing whatever I was doing. And then we would film, I think sometimes Thursdays, but mostly Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

When you came out, did people that were in your school that weren't on the show treat you guys like?

No.

Okay, different.

What happened was the first season, everybody auditioned, right? Everyone did well. And then when those people didn't get it, fuck MTV.

Blah.

That whole thing. And then those people were on season two and I was like, oh, really?

Right. Fuck MTV.

That pissed me off, but, I mean, it's understandable. And then when it aired, the first season aired, I was a senior in high school. Talon and I were. Everyone else graduated, went on to school. That was the one time the freshman coming in looked at me a little differently and I was like, okay, this is weird.

You talked about the fact that your relationship with your dad was hard to heal in therapy when you were growing up. What was that core issue between the two of you?

Well, my dad wasn't around a lot, to be honest. We were living in Connecticut before my parents got a divorce. And my dad had moved to Colorado. I think I saw him maybe, like once a month for a while. And then in Colorado is when my parents got a divorce. And my dad shortly thereafter, moved to Laguna beach. And I was still in Colorado. Then my mom got remarried and I moved to Chicago. And then my freshman year of high school is when I moved to Laguna, moved in with my dad, my stepmom, who was 20 years younger than my dad, and my brother at the time, who had also been broken up with. Okay, he moved to Laguna when I moved to Chicago. And honestly, my dad and I were just never close. And I just remember in high school, I never wanted to be like. I just never wanted to be around that environment. So that's why I think I fell into friendships a lot. And going out, I was kind of the party girl. And that's where I found connections.

Did you want to move to Laguna?

I sort of had to because I was getting in so much trouble in Chicago and I had a major issue with my step. And all the pieces just fell into place for me to move. My mom wanted to ship me off to boarding school, and my dad said, let me give it a go. Let me see if I can control this wild beast. So I moved to Laguna my freshman year of high school, and honestly, the best thing that's ever happened to me.

What were you confident about in high school, and what were you insecure about?

Well, it's funny because on Laguna beach, everyone thought I was a super confident kid. And now that I've had to go back and watch the episodes for my podcast, I don't see a confident girl at all. I see, actually someone who's incredibly insecure that saying, confidence is quiet, insecurity is loud. Well, I was that I was overcompensating for my insane amount of insecurity. And so I think most kids are a mess. Most high school kids, you don't know the fuck you are at 17 years old. But I think really probably because I didn't have a family member in my life that I was really close to. My mom now was my best friend, but at the time, we were not close. Wasn't living with her. I never wanted to be home. So I think that was probably a large part of it for me.

That is really interesting because I think watching it back, sometimes when you're in your head about whatever your insecurity is for you, you're like, I kind of feel like I'm alone out here doing my fucking thing. You kind of just have to fake it till you make it.

Exactly.

Was there anything when you were social with your peers that you were insecure about?

No. I mean, that's really where I kind of found my identity, I think. So I moved around a lot growing up, and I think because I was always the new girl, I was a survivor. Like, you could throw me in any situation, and I was going to figure it out. I knew how to navigate through situations. That's maybe where the confidence came from, because I wasn't someone who's going to crawl in the corner and suffer. I was like, boom, here I am. Let's go. But I was faking it, though.

That makes so much sense. I can completely relate to that, where you're like, I'm about to walk in this room, and I have two options. And so sometimes being, like, the loud one, it just gets you in the door, and immediately, if you exude confidence, eventually you're going to fucking be confident.

Yeah.

If you had to guess, who would you be now if the MTV cameras never showed up to your high school?

Oh, my God, I love that question. I mean, I think, wow, if I was never on Laguna Beach, I probably would have gone to school and did broadcast, studied broadcast journalism, hopefully would have worked my way in. Still, I don't know. I feel like in a lot of ways I probably wouldn't be as far along on my journey as I am today because ultimately being on tv at such a young age and going through everything I've gone through over the years has really forced me to grow up a lot. I think the older we get, we realize life is building blocks and everything starts to make sense. And so I feel like just everything that I've been through, I feel like this was supposed to be my journey. Totally. It's hard to sit here and be like, well, if not because I just feel like I was destined for this.

I think a lot of people are fascinated because, like you said, high school is hard enough. High school is such an awkward time. You're trying to figure out who the fuck you are. You're dealing with peer dynamics, family dynamics. How did it feel? And I think this is where we all are so fascinated with it because it's really not natural to have grownups with cameras in your face. I feel like your scenes were always like you chilling in bed with Alex in the morning, discussing what happened the night before. But it's like, how did it feel having these grown ups come into your life, stir up drama and kind of like manipulate these storylines to get a good show going when you're in high school?

Yeah, it's a weird dynamic when you really explain it like that. I mean, my whole life I had trust issues. But then really, when you're 1718 and you have adults taking advantage of you and manipulating situations and in a lot of ways just straight up lying to your face, I mean, that'll rock your boat for sure. Trust is like my biggest issue with people and so that obviously didn't help that situation. And now that I'm older and I've been on the other side of reality shows, like very Cavalieri, I was an executive producer, which was the best thing for me to end my reality tv career with that experience because it left a really good taste in my mouth. But it was also really eye opening to be involved in those conversations of like, oh, these are the storylines we're getting and no matter what you do, they're going to get the storyline they want. So I understand from a producer's perspective now that I'm an adult why they do the things they do. They have a job to do. I get all of that. I just think it's a tricky thing when you're dealing with children.

I mean, we were kids. That's where it's like, it's tough.

It's really tough because in one part, it became one of the biggest shows, and then on the other end, it's like, yo, you're in high school. That's your life. When you say they would lie to your face, can you give us an example of something you remember?

Well, so I look at Laguna beach on the hills as two very different experiences. Laguna beach was more just. No one really ever told us what was going on or what they were trying to do. No one prepared us for what was coming. I just remember one producer in particular before it aired. You know, you can definitely tell that you're not from Laguna beach. And I was, oh, okay. Like, what does that mean? And then it came out, and I was like, oh, you mean because everyone's.

Going to fucking hate me?

And this is so not who you know, but I don't know. A bigger heads up would have been nice, how much you guys fucked with me, that kind of stuff.

When you say fucked with you, are you saying, like, they really leaned in to try to make you that villain?

And that's why I've really loved doing the back to the beach podcast with Stephen, because we literally go through scene by scene and break it down. And it's been therapeutic for me. It's been eye opening. It's been really fun also just to break it all down because I'm not emotionally invested in it anymore, where at the time, I remember Stephen being like, that's not how it went down, but I couldn't hear him or believe him because I was so upset about it. And so, yeah, being able to go back and watch it and just get to the bottom of it, I've loved every second of it.

When you realized, like, wait, I look like the villain in this? What the fuck did that do to you mentally?

I was pretty wrecked for a while. I was so upset. I was really upset. When I saw the first episode, it was hard.

It was you and Lauren Conrad, essentially. The first premise was, like, you guys fighting over a guy?

Yeah.

Did you and Lauren, was it really only over Steven? Or were you two just two personalities that probably would have always butt heads regardless of if a guy was involved?

Well, we were never friends, but we never fought or know. And so MTV coming definitely made it a way bigger thing than it ever was. And Lauren and Stephen did have something, but it was before MTV came. And then, of course, MTV caught wind of that. That was, like, the only thing they focused on, and in a lot of ways, tried to keep it alive, and that was where I felt really threatened. And so I put up walls I knew how to do at age 17.

Totally.

And so, yeah, it goes back to that thing where I was always a survivor, and so if I felt, like, threatened and people were coming after something that was mine, aka my boyfriend or whatever it was, I was going to get scrappy. I mean, that's just what I knew how to do.

I have had many of your now castmates on, I've heard, and being on Laguna beach and the hills and getting to directly interact with Adam Devello. What was your experience with.

Was. It was never great. I had my issues with Adam without a doubt. And again, I mean, I kind of said it earlier, but I understand now as an adult why he did the things he did. It's not that I agree with them, but, I mean, he had a job to do. I think my biggest issue with what Adam did was he would create these storylines on the show that were bullshit, but then he would go and feed them to the tabloids. So not only are you living this shit on the show, but then I'm having to answer questions, and the tabloids and people are painting this picture of me, which isn't true at all. And again, I get it, because the tabloids fueled the show, and at the end of the day, it's all fine. It's all worked out. But I had my issues with Adam for sure. I don't think he's a good person, but I think he's a great producer. I'm actually kind of upset, though, because Steven and I were supposed to have him on our podcast, and he had us going around and around and around. And then two days before we were supposed to film, he pulled out.

And it's just shitty because, a, you could have told us up front, and b, he totally opened up my career.

Right?

Started my career. But we also started his career. Like, without the cast of season one of Laguna Beach, Adam wouldn't be what he is either. So I just felt like, why can't you come on. It's a mutual respect thing. Answer some questions about how the show was created, and we'll call it a day.

You kind of made him because, yeah, he had the format, but if you guys didn't show the fuck up and do your iconic scenes, there was not going to be a huge media mogul moment for MTV in that category. So it's like, Spencer did talk about what happened with Heidi. Did you know about that? And do you know?

No, because that was before I had come on the show. My issue with him was a bribing situation and him creating this storyline that I was doing drugs and was out of control, partying my ass off. In my early twenty s. I had a really good time. I don't regret anything. I was never out of control. It was never cause for concern. I was never not showering, which is, like, what Us Weekly had said, that I needed to go to rehab and all this shit. And so that wasn't cool.

I remember that.

Yeah, he bribed the girls to call me out on camera for doing drugs with a but. And that was difficult. And Adam and I got a huge fight about it because what I was doing then, because then he fueled it to Us Weekly, I would be on camera filming, and I'd be like, I know it was Adam going around just running my mouth. And Adam called me and he was like, you have to stop saying that. I was like, but you did.

Well, that's also fucked. And I think that's where I think it's fair for you guys. You're not discrediting the show. Even you sit here and you're saying, great producer. He knows what the fuck he's doing. But I do think it's fair to clear your name, because I was going to ask you that about, like, there was that huge sin. I remember with the hills where it was like, she's on drugs. She spun out, and they got you when you just woke up. And the girls were trying to have an intervention, and I was like, is Kristen really on drugs? And that fucks with you because your kids are going to watch that one day. And so I think it's fair for you to be able to at least clear your fucking name with part.

I partied. I'm not going to sit here and say I never did. I had a lot of fun. I'm glad that I did. I got everything out of my system, but I never needed rehab. No one in my life was concerned about me. It was totally under control. I love that. If you can be a partier, that's under control. And I just hope that low learned. You always have to get that shit in writing because she never got her purse.

She didn't.

No, stop. What kind of purse was it? I want to say it was a Birkin.

It wasn't. Shut the fuck up.

Yeah, but you got to get that shit in writing.

Absolutely.

I would have been like, give it to me first, and then I'll show up.

Exactly.

Damn. No Birkin for low.

Sorry, girl.

And no rehab for Christmas.

Hope it was worth it.

When you look back, young Kristen is, like, in that moment, cameras around. What were the perks of having this show in your life? And then what was the most negative part that you look back on now with perspective?

I mean, the perks were, it was fun. I would get phone calls, being in whatever class during senior year, and MTV would be like, hey, can you fly to New York tonight to be on TrL tomorrow? I'm like, yes, absolutely. Like, that stuff is mean. So there was a lot of cool things going to the MTV VMas and all that stuff was really fun. I mean, I was still in high school, so it's not like I was getting great dinner reservations and stuff, know? But when I graduated high school and we moved up to, yeah, like, I never waited in a line at a club or a restaurant. It was fun. It was very fun. And then the biggest downfall, I'd say, okay, more. So back in the day, was the tabloid world, that aspect of it. Now I'm not so much in the tabloids like I was back in the day. But what I don't like now is every time I feel like I do an interview, what they take, they'll take nothing and turn it into headlines for clickbait. And that shit really pisses me off still. Like, I just did another podcast, and we were talking about dating, and I guess we were talking about Instagram, and I said that I only noticed the verified ones because they go to the top.

And we were, like, joking around. So now all these fucking articles are like, kristen's using Instagram as a dating app, and it's like, no, I'm not. That's not what I was.

I do. I totally get that. Like, the spinning of the words, and it almost makes you not want to do shit.

Makes me not want to talk, which.

I think you do love to talk, though.

I know, but I feel like in the last few years, I don't talk as much because people probably don't know this about me. They probably think I love all the attention. I actually don't, unless it's for something positive, like my company, like I'm common James or something. Then I'm like, all right, that's. I really. I don't care about being in the press or the tabloids. I really don't.

Is MTV paying for everyone's therapy?

They should be.

But no, they didn't offer.

No.

And actually, Steven told me on our podcast that they gave him a speech coach. And I'm like, really? Because I probably needed one out of everybody, and they didn't offer me that.

They offered him. Wait, back when he was in Laguna?

Yeah.

Did he need a speech coach?

I didn't think so.

I did.

That would have gone against the character they wanted me to be.

Right?

Like, rough around the edges, like wild. Kristen, how do you think having your first relationship, like, serious first love and relationship air on tv impacted your future relationships?

Oh.

I don't think my relationship being on camera affected my future relationships. I think just being in the press then affected my future relationships. And again, it goes back to that whole trust thing. Unfortunately, I've had to be careful with guys that I date because a lot of guys or what I have found is a few different things. They get a little taste of fame, and they lose their mind. They become addicted to it almost, or it's really threatening for a lot of guys. So then they get really jealous and insecure about it. So that's been really tricky for me.

Wait, when you say they get addicted, how can you immediately tell? Like, oh, fuck, he's turned.

It takes me a second, right? You can just tell. What I can't fucking stand is when a guy will plant breadcrumbs. You know that on Instagram, I dated a guy who would come to Nashville and he would, like, tag the location. And I'm like, why? You've never tagged a location in your life. Why are you now? That shit I can't stand because it's so purposeful.

Like, he's looking to kind of be like, I hope this gets picked up by someone, and I hope there's an article, like, are they seeing each other?

You're disgusting, right?

You're like, I don't even know you that well. We're trying to get to know each other before we actually start dating. Chill the fuck out.

Or what? I've noticed if it's not about the guy, the attention, they do not like that. So then they're like, oh. I'm like, it's because it's not about you.

So you married someone that was famous and was in the public eye. How did you meet Jay Cutler?

Well, I got a call from my publicist in 2009 when I was still filming the hills, and he said, jay Cutler wants to fly you to Chicago and take you on a date. And I had no idea who he was, and I just wasn't interested, quite honestly. So I said no. I obviously told my mom about it, though, because a year later, I was visiting my mom, who lives in a suburb of Chicago. Go. And we were going to a Bears preseason game with my cousin for actually my friend Matt Lineart, who was playing on the opposing team, and my mom know, didn't Jay Cutler ask you out? And I was like, oh, yeah, I totally forgot about that. My cousin, who is, like, the biggest bears fan, told me what an idiot I am. So long story short, I got his family passes to meet him after the game, thinking I would never talk to Jay ever again. But my cousin be, like, over the moon about it. And he walked in and he was a lot cuter in person. And we hung out two nights later. And then, honestly, we just moved so fast.

I mean, we got engaged after eight months, and it just moved.

What initially attracted you to him?

So at the time, I remember my life felt very claustrophobic living in LA. I couldn't leave my house without a million paparazzi every day, and I just was over it. Every guy in LA I felt like was a little bitch, to be completely honest. And I wanted someone who could be the alpha because I felt like everything in my life, I was always the alpha. So I wanted to be in the passenger seat for once. Jay checked all of those boxes, and honestly, we just had chemistry. You can't pick and choose who you like, you know what I'm saying? And so we just had that. So with where I was at at the time in my life, he was perfect for me.

I wanted to discuss dating an athlete and marrying an athlete because I've dated. I was going to say a few. I've dated a lot of athletes.

Okay.

Everyone knows I've dated a lot of athletes, had serious relationships, slings, whatever. And they're an interesting breed.

Yeah.

Was Jay your first professional athlete that you dated?

No, I have a few under my belt.

Knew kind of the know. It helps when you have them under your belt because you kind of know.

I get that.

Well, you have, like, the whole playbook.

Ready to go, like musicians. Fucking insane. I won't go near another one. But athletes, I could do that world. Oh, they're all the fucking do that shit in my sleep.

Absolutely.

What were some of the perks of dating a pro athlete, in your mind?

Well, in Chicago, I mean, he was a huge know. And so it was like, instead of me always having to get a dinner reservation, like, Jay could fucking do, like, dumb shit like that, though. But it mattered at the just, it was easy and fun with, you know.

Did you fit in with the other players wives?

Yeah, I did.

You did?

I did.

See, I didn't as well because they would want me to go to a lunch luncheon or, like, there's a lot.

Of that shit, which I wasn't a.

Fan, I couldn't do.

No, but, yeah, we all got along.

You got along, but maybe you weren't, like, at all the luncheons with, like.

No, I don't think I went to a bears luncheon until my last season there with them.

They would always ask me, and I'd be like, ladies, I got to go to work. And they'd be like, but we have a luncheon at noon on Wednesday.

Sorry.

But they are sweet.

They are.

What I found was most of them had been together since they were, like, 18.

So many of them. And I guess I get it. And I think that's where maybe it was cool, because you had a different dynamic, where a lot of them try to stay with the people that knew them before they got big. And you and Jay had a different dynamic because you both were big in your own right. So there could kind of be this just mutual. Like, we both have our own things going on. That makes sense. What were some of the hardest aspects of being married to someone whose job is to play football?

Well, I mean, I love someone who has their own shit going on, so that was great. But I think the hardest part was watching him get the shit beat out of him week after week. Football is a really tough sport, and so that was difficult, especially after we had kids, too. Then things just become even more serious. But other than that, loved the schedule, loved him traveling, loved him going like, please go. Do you?

Yeah.

I also feel like football is, like, one of the better schedules.

It's not bad at all.

Baseball, it's like, I'll see you never.

That's why they have girlfriends in every city. Every single city.

They would always call it, like, road beef. And I was like, excuse me, why are you saying this in front of me? And my boyfriend's friends would always be like, are road beef? In Minnesota, I dated a baseball player.

Who actually sent flowers to me and one of my friends on Valentine's day. I mean, this was so long ago, but, yeah, I was like, oh, they have no shame.

No shame.

They're like, what?

No, literally and totally told me he had a girlfriend up in Francisco. Okay, well, hey, there's something about the.

Like, but she's my girlfriend in that city.

You're like, you're.

No.

Did you ever worry about Jay's behavior on the road when he was gone?

I didn't, and that's why football is actually a good sport, because they're gone for one night. They have curfew the night before it's the night before a game. As soon as the game's over, they get right on a plane and come home.

There's no room.

They do and they have and they will continue to. But at the time, I didn't have any reason to suspect.

How did the dynamic of your marriage change once Jay retired?

I mean, it actually kind of didn't. And we started very cavalieri right away, and so it didn't. He was just around a lot more.

Okay.

So you guys were getting to spend more time.

A lot more time. Yeah.

Initially, when you got engaged, you postponed the wedding. You said one of the reasons was you didn't want to be a stay at home wife. What made you think that you would have to be staying at home if you got married?

I mean, it was so much bigger than that, though. I think I probably said that at the time to say something and move on, but basically, I called off the engagement. The same reason I got a divorce. Same reasons, I should say. And so I guess if there's any takeaway from that is you can't ignore red flags. People don't change, and you got to trust your gut. I was 23 when I met Jay. I was a baby, and at the time in my life, getting married and having kids was the next natural step. I'd gotten everything out of my system, and I don't regret anything at all, and I really am thankful for our time together. But, yeah, I just think now I'm so different dating. I see shit a mile away, and now it's like, no, I'm actually not going to put up with that because you know what? It is now for me, it's a huge turn off. Instead of being like, oh, well, maybe he'll change. Maybe we could fix him. It's like, no, goodbye.

Totally.

I don't have time for that anymore.

You say it wasn't because of loss of love that you guys got divorced, but because you couldn't be in a toxic relationship anymore. What was toxic about it?

So here's my only thing. Because I have three kids with him, I'm very careful about what I say. If you and I didn't have microphones in front of us, I'd fucking tell you. But that's their dad, and my oldest googles us now, and I just want to be very careful. My mom never said anything bad about my dad growing up, and I really respected that, and I want to be that kind of mom. And even if I don't say anything, the headlines will say, I've fucking trashed him somehow. So it was toxic, I think, period, end of story. That's all I kind of need to say.

When did your family and friends realize forever?

They did.

Because I know sometimes you can try.

To hide it because I kind of hid it from some of my friends. My mom knew every step of the way, and my best friend Stephanie, who's in Chicago, but like, Justin, my best friend, he didn't realize it until he moved to Nashville. And then he saw it firsthand.

When you get to a place where you are trying to hide stuff from your friends or your family, that's also a red flag for yourself. Why aren't you telling your friends? It's so out. And then it's almost harder once you're so deep in it by yourself that.

Then to try to lone ranger on your own island.

And then you're like, how do I even tell my friends? Because I've been faking this for so long. But you're saying your family knew, so you weren't fully alone.

Yeah, my mom knew. My mom knew. And because my mom went through some similar stuff with my dad, she was actually the perfect person for me to have because she understood what I was going through. And so that was good. I also think it's really important if you do have issues with your dad, obviously, for girls especially, to work through that shit before you get married, because otherwise we end up with our dad.

When you think you have any fucking issues with, just even, like, your family, your parents, that shit, if you don't work on that, you're about to turn right around and do the same fucking shit. And so it can be a little bit of, like, a daunting process, but you have to work through it, or you're going to marry your father.

Exactly.

When you are breaking up with someone, it fucking sucks. Even if you. No matter what side you're on, no matter what side. And what is worse, especially with social media, is like, it's hard to see someone move on.

Yeah.

How did it make you feel? Or does it make you feel like if you still see or if he's.

Out with other people, I hope that he finds someone. Yeah, I really do. I mean, I want him happy. My kids benefit from that. So I hope that he gets remarried. I really do. Obviously, the first time I heard about it stung a little. Yeah, that's anybody? Totally. And I'm friends with almost all of my exes, and I think that's a good thing. I really value the time I've had with everybody. I've learned from every relationship I've had. And I really want all of my exes to be happy and be in a great relationship.

For young women, listening, it's fucking hard to end something that especially, I'm sure, when you have children, like, you have deep ties with someone, there is love there, because what you've created, the world you've created with this person. But when you know something's not right for you, how did you mentally work through ending it officially?

Because that's hard. It's really scary. I mean, it took me a few years to actually pull the trigger, to be honest.

For you. Was it just time? Or were you finally like, okay, something happened, like, now I'm going to do it?

No, it was more just time. It was like nothing major happened at the end. It was just time. And I remember always asking my mom, like, well, how am I going to know? And she would be like, you'll just know. And I did. I just kind of knew. And it's the scariest thing. It's also the saddest thing. I mean, it's so many emotions, but it can also be the best thing. And so I really don't think anything good comes easy, really, like, with anything in life. But also, you don't want to just make an impulsive decision either. And I think that's why it's important to write it out. I've also seen couples that have worked through shit and come out on the other side. I think with any relationship, you just have to realize what are deal breakers for you, what's important to you and what's not. And I was really unhappy, and that was the bottom line. And I was in an unhealthy relationship. And so that, to me, is not worth it. Also, I didn't want my kids thinking that that was normal, and I wanted them to see me happy and see me eventually.

Not right now, but eventually see me with someone who really respects me and treats me the way I need to be treated.

Okay. You are now recording a Laguna beach rewatch podcast with your ex boyfriend in high school. I don't know if I could ever fucking sit down with my ex boyfriend and be like, let's.

And also the fact that you have.

To rewatch it, it's like, holy fuck. Do you see yourself ever hooking up with Steven again?

No.

I went to dinner with him almost two years ago, and we kissed, which was fun. I mean, we had had a couple of drinks, and, yeah, it was just fun, right? And then I was actually dating someone at the time. I'm just making up for lost time. And so I think that was kind of what the issue was, was that I was dating someone else, and it just kind of just didn't turn into anything.

Do you feel like you guys are, like. Because you know how everyone's, like, your first love, do you think there's any way you would explore it again?

No. Once I'm done with someone, I'm done. It's like a light flips and I can't go back.

Are you guys having that moment? I actually feel like this is something I would think about in high school. It's like, are you guys having any of those moments where, together, you kind of regress back to the high school version of yourself together?

Because.

Do you even know adult versions of each other?

Well, we've kept in touch, and we would hang out a little bit before I got married and stuff. And I think, had we not gone to dinner almost two years ago.

I.

Don'T know that we would have. Well, I'm sure we would have had the same chemistry. But it put me at ease because I was like, I know that we still know. Banter back and forth, have fun together. So that was a good thing.

You need to take us through the last date you went on. Okay, where did you go? Did you like the person? Kristen, give us the tea.

This is a good story, actually. Okay, tell us.

Here we go.

So I hate actors. I've always known that in my early twenty s, I went out with a few, and I was like, they're the worst. But an actor asked me out. I was like, all right, so this was in LA. This was probably, like, two months ago. And went to Laurel Hardware. He doesn't hear this.

It's okay. I've gone on dates there, too. Let's just pretend it was me there, but you there.

Who was it? We don't know. Keep going. Laurel hardware.

That's a good place for drinks.

So he was slamming drinks. Like, slamming drinks. And then at one point, he was telling me he does his own stunts. We were sitting at the bar, okay, it's fucking packed. He gets up to reenact a stunt that he had done, accidentally runs into the waiter and is like, oh, I'm so sorry. I was like, please sit the fuck down. I can't. Just creating all this commotion in the middle of Laurel hardware.

I am so turned off. He tried to do a stunt.

Reenacting a stunt in the middle of a packed restaurant. Please sit down.

Also, like, just drawing so much attention.

Like, oh, my God.

Also, why are you doing a stunt in Laurel hardware?

Sit the fuck down.

And to confirm anyone that's not from LA, that is a packed bar. It is not a hardware store.

Thank you very much. It was awesome.

So then did you talk to him afterwards?

He's texted me a couple of times, and I can't just ghost someone.

Right.

But I give him, like, a one word response.

I don't even know him.

You're in a serious relationship. Literally.

Okay, so you're just kind of like.

I get that.

Wait, why do you think you can't ghost someone?

I'm too fucking nice. Which people would not know about me. I'm too nice.

Really?

Yeah.

I wouldn't want to be ghosted either. I would actually appreciate someone just being like, hey, you know what? You're great, but didn't feel any chemistry. Totally. Which I said that to another guy. I was like, hey, I didn't feel any chemistry. And his friends were making fun of me for weeks about it.

I'm like.

I actually thought I was being, like, mature, not wasting anyone's time. I love that.

What can they say to that?

Exactly.

He deleted my number and told all of his friends, and everyone was making fun of me. I'm like, okay, well, thank you for validating why the fuck I don't like you.

Right?

And I'm an adult, and sorry you couldn't take the fucking truth.

I'm trying not to waste anyone's time. Totally on.

If you are not having a good time on a date, because I feel like this is me, and I'm wondering if it would be you. They won't know that I'm not having a. I'm going to people please it up and be, like, laughing, and then he's going to think, we're leaving, and I'm having the best time, and I'm not going to want to talk to him. Do you give signs on a date if you're not into it?

I know, because the same thing. Like, I'll fucking show up to the party, but what I've been doing is I won't go on dinner dates. I will get a drink.

Smart.

They usually turn into dinner because, again, I'm too fucking nice.

But this guy who was acting out stunts got dinner with him. I'm like, what am I doing? You're like, let's get the ravioli, dude. I got to go home. Fuck.

Because I know.

Because I need to come up with.

A better game plan. Like, oh, I have an early morning.

Right?

Actually, this is another funny story. I almost want to say who I was with.

Please.

In my early twenty s. Okay, you.

Have to uncall her.

Daddy. Come on.

All right, I'll say it. Don't say it.

It's in your early moment. This is going. Don't say it. All right, I'll tell you the story.

So I went on a date with a guy. This is my early 20s, height of my partying career, right?

Okay.

He was vegan, and he was sober, and I was like, oh, one or the other, right?

Pick one.

Pick preferably both. Or, like, be both. So I was like, I have an early morning.

Sorry.

Went back to his house, made out with him on his bed. I was like, I have a really early morning tomorrow. Changed in my car, went to hide. I'm such a dumb ass. Of course there's paparazzi. The next day, he was like, my friend saw you at hide. I was like, oh, really?

You're like, it's so crazy. I was on my way home, and I got an email that the event in the morning was canceled. So I thought you were asleep.

I'm going to go to hide. I felt so.

I felt so bad. And he's really cute, but at the time in my life, totally. I'm eating meat and I'm drinking a lot of alcohol. Oh, we can't do this.

No.

I actually respect the honesty, though, because I have done something similar where if they're just not on your wavelength, especially when you're in your early twenty s and you're like, I am going to every club. I want to be known at that club.

My job is to go out right now.

I don't think you understand that.

And so it's like, even if they're a great guy, maybe if you met him later on.

By the way, I've seen him not that long ago. But, like, great guy.

It's not meant for you.

You were more interested in getting fucked.

Up at Hyde, and I wanted to.

Go to Hyde, man.

Okay.

Sloshed.

Can you tell us who is the most famous person you've denied?

Denied?

Oh, God.

What about initials? Your publicist is having a panic attack.

What about.

Tell us the profession?

I didn't deny a lot of people back in the day, to be honest.

You're like, did you just hear famous?

I'm staying on the date with the.

Guy doing the stunt, Alex, everyone getting dinner with him.

All right, fine. No one's getting denied. Okay, how about this?

You see someone on Instagram you find attractive, okay. How do you vet these people to see if they're worthy of you dming them and pursuing them.

I won't dm you don't. I won't make the first move on Instagram.

Why?

Okay, so where I'm at currently in my life, I want to be pursued. I want to be fucking courted. I want the man to put in some fucking effort. And I think because guys now. So again, I was with Jay for ten years. This is my first time dating in the social media world. It's a fucking shit show out there. I hate every second of it. But guys are lazy as fuck now and they're always looking for the next best thing. And so it's like, no, I'm sorry, I don't have time for your little bullshit anymore. Let me see how serious you are and put in the effort. So, no, I'm not making the first move.

I've said, ladies, if you want something, slide the fuck in. But where you're at in your life also kind of dictates what you're going to do. So for you, I totally hear you. We're like, I'm going to sit on my couch, drink my tea and wait for the men to come in. And if they're not fucking, sayonara, bitch. I don't give a fuck.

Okay.

I think that's because one thing I.

Did do was I went to a show and I posted a story of this musician who I did end up dating. So he saw it, DM'd me. So that in a roundabout way is kind of like, yeah, I like that.

That's a good way to do it.

Yeah.

If you were going though to slide into someone's, let's pretend like something hits you on a Sunday night, the kids are gone, you're bored, you're like, maybe I'll give it a try.

What is got to be fucking hot?

Okay, true.

What are you going to slide in with?

If you had to, what's my pickup line?

What would you say?

Hey.

Hi.

Chris is like, I'm so lazy with it.

Hi.

Period.

Okay, this is a fun game. Oh, God.

What would say. It really depends on the guy, the situation where he lives, if he lives in like, it would be different than if he lived in LA, right?

Totally.

I don't know.

Shit.

I don't know.

Because, like Nashville, you could be like something about, do you go to, hey, are you in like something like that? If they're in a different state?

Yeah.

Then it's like LA. I come out here quite a bit. So I'm like, I'm going to be in LA and blah, blah, blah, blah.

What are you up to?

Yeah, I do have good game.

We know.

Thank you. We watched it.

Still got it. I do know that.

I think that's the best part. I remember watching on the hills when you came back and you with Brody. He was like, drooling because it was just like, you know how to get the guy. Do you think that would ever go anywhere I've ever again?

No, I just saw him actually, and I met his new girlfriend. I love Brody, but no, Brody's the only ex I ever went back to, though, and it was because I was filming the hills.

Interesting.

Although on the show we didn't actually date, but we hung out a little bit. I can't remember how it all, but what you saw on the show was all bullshit. Like, he and Jade pretended to break up, but they never actually did.

Like all that. Those fight scenes. I was like, kristen, how do you get yourself riled up to just scream in these? Is it easy for you to get riled up, though, when you're filming now?

Not anymore, but like, back in the day. Oh, yeah, when you showed up, I.

Forget the scene, but you showed up. Oh, my God. I remember your hair looked great. You were looking great. You showed up and you're like, you.

Want to.

Fucking piranhas.

God.

I know. I was hammered. I watched that back and I was like, oh, Heidi and Spencer was my first day really filming. Heidi and Spencer came with bottles of tequila and it just went south.

And when they showed, you know what.

I was mad about, though? So before I started filming, Audrey and I talked about how we know that they want us to fight and they want you to go after Justin Bobby, and we're not going to fall for that shit. I was like, yeah, no, we're not.

Woo.

Then we're filming and she comes up to me and picks a fight. And I was. So that's why I was like, so it's gonna be like that?

So I was like, what the fuck? We just had this conversation.

That makes so much sense. Oh, my God, I forgot that. So it's going to be like that, really?

Whatever. Fucking pirate. Am I crazy? Fuck all of you. Game on.

That actually makes a lot of sense how you got that riled up in that scene. Guys, just google Kristen Cavalieri. You came at me like fucking piranhas. And you will watch the glorious moment that Kristen almost loses her shit. But it truly was such an iconic moment. And also, that's so good to know you were hammered because that line was so iconic.

I'm better when I have a little buz.

That shit just comes out of my mouth.

See, sometimes people look like idiots. Kristen's like, give me a fucking tequila and I will rock.

I perform way better.

I love that. Okay.

When you're looking at someone's Instagram, now that you're learning how to date with social media, what is a photo that laugh. Guys, I can't. I feel like I've heard that since I came out of the fucking womb.

I'm obsessed.

It's the giggle. It's the cute one also where the guys are endeared. And then it's also, like, sinister for women being like, oh, my God, is.

She going to cut my face off? Or do I love going to kill me? Okay, wait.

If you're going to a guy's Instagram, he dms you. You're like, okay, what could be a photo that you see that you're like, absolutely not.

Like a shirtless selfie?

The model photo, it's like, yeah, like, sorry, gym selfie. Yeah, no, we don't need to see it.

No, be a man. A manly man who's not taking fucking shirtless photos in the mirror.

I agree. We don't. We don't need to see it.

Cool, bro. Anyone care?

I agree with you. Mine were the fishing photos when they're, like, holding the big fish in the photo, and I'm like, sir, what?

That's your thing.

I can't take it. I'm from the northeast.

To be honest, I would actually love to find someone who's not on social media. Or maybe they have one, but they really don't post that kind of stuff. That's the goal.

When I met my boyfriend and I was like, show me your Instagram. And he was like, I don't have one.

I was like, I will marry you.

You officially have a second Date, buddy.

That was so nice.

You're going to find it. You're going to find it. I think so, too. Does someone's prior dating history in the industry affect if you're going to pursue them?

I would be lying if I said not at all. But if you've dated some fucking trash buckets, yeah, it kind of stands out.

Give us the definition of a trash.

Just like a trashy girl.

Got it. Yeah.

Because then I'm like, why would you be into me? I'm not saying I'm a fucking saint, but you know what I mean.

I'm not saying I'm not trashy too, but I have my own category of myself. No, but I get what you're saying. If you can tell the vibe of someone, if they're dating someone completely different, you're like, I have my business. I have my kids. I don't got time to bullshit.

Exactly.

I'm just at a different phase in my life. The shit I put up with when I was 21 is totally different.

Totally.

Well, now, what is a non negotiable for you now in a potential partner?

A non negotiable is someone who cannot take any accountability and who is insecure. I mean, honestly, I need someone who is so comfortable in their own skin because that's been the crux of most of my relationships.

That makes sense. Yeah, I've had that before too, where it's like. Because then it comes to you just constantly having to build them up, and you're like.

And they're threatened by everything in my life. And it's like, I don't have time for that anymore.

I can't babysit you.

Yeah.

Would you date an athlete again?

It's not at the top of my list. I'm not looking for one. They like me for some reason, and so I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not looking for that. And I would love to get. I mean, I'm fucking 35 now. They're all a little young for me now. I've been attracting a lot of guys in their 20s, though. I don't know what that's about. I don't know what's going on. I mean, I've just decided that, like, least, okay, like, in my perfect mind, I'm, like, 45, a businessman, not on social media. No one knows the fuck they are. But that's just not what I've been attracting. So I don't know.

But maybe you're also at a point in your life where since you're newly single and you're getting out there, maybe that's also. It's going to shift. But you're giving some great energy that the young bucks are like, you guys.

Know I have three kids, right?

Cool.

I just want to throw that out there.

It's like turning them on even more.

You're like, 26 year old just asked me out.

I was like, 20.

Fucking sound like you're hot.

But, no, I can't.

You're like, are you going to hide tonight?

I've been there, done that, man. I can't.

Okay. If you could go on a date tomorrow with any person of your choice, okay, who would it be? Like?

Alexander? Is that how you say his name? Who is that. Oh, google him. Someone google him, please. Big little lies. I mean, maybe his character wasn't the best in that show, but he's got.

Another off of that character.

You're like, it's not because of the character. It's because of him, guys.

Wow, you really worked through your shit.

Okay, that's a good answer. Okay. As we wrap up, you are everywhere. I feel like when I was prepping for this interview, I'm like, I can't keep up with Kristen Cavalier enough. Do you feel exhausted by the fact that your income and your job is slightly dependent at times on you being in the public eye?

Yeah, I do. Because, honestly, if everything went away, I would be okay. But now that I'm a single woman, especially supporting three children, I have to keep my money coming in.

Right.

And so, yeah, it's kind of a. But in the same breath what I'm doing now, I really love, like, the podcast, for example, I've really enjoyed, and I do feel like because I live in Nashville, I can kind of separate a little bit, and I go back to a really normal, peaceful life. And so I actually think I have a really good balance with everything right now.

I think that's great.

Yeah.

And being on tv, sometimes I feel like we get a version of you. Like you said, everyone's. I just learned that you weren't, like, the most confident girl in high school. And it's helpful to hear you be able to kind of debunk those myths about yourself through time. What is something you feel like people don't understand about you that you wish you could just set straight and they understood who Kristen Cavallari is?

Well, I think there's obviously a lot of sides to my personality. I do have that fiery go getter part that I think a lot of people do see, I also can be very shy and very reserved. I'm a homebody. I recharge by being quiet and having alone time. And I just think people would be surprised at what a normal life I live. Like, people always assume I have chefs and nannies and butlers. It's like I don't have any of that. I think. I don't know. I think I'm way more normal than people probably think.

No, I love that you're explaining that, because I think also you could be in LA, going to all the places, getting paparazzi'd all the.

It's.

It takes someone to specifically try to maneuver the world and not be photographed all the time, and there's ways to do it.

There is.

Yeah. But it's cool that you're, like, living in Nashville because isn't your house not.

Yeah, I'm actually, like, 35 minutes outside of the city, out in the country.

So you're living a pretty normal life when you're there.

Yeah, I am. And the other thing, too, is I'm not seeking press, obviously. I just did this video for my company with Tyler Cameron for uncommon James, which I knew would get press, but that's different. That's for my company. I'm not out there trying to be in the press and be in the media and only date someone famous. And I don't think like, so. And I think because I am in the press a lot, and I actually roll my eyes at that shit, I'm like, how the fuck are they creating a story out of nothing? I actually just had to talk myself off the ledge the other day because I was like, okay, look at it this way. At least you're being talked about. People care. I have to just kind of turn the narrative around in my head, because otherwise I'll drive myself insane.

Do you think it's helped you, though, that you have now this brand, that now you're not just fully. It's not all about Kristen and who she's dating and your love life and your social life, because that's what it originally was. Now you have something. You're like, no, this is my business, and this is something that's completely independent of who I'm dating.

Yes.

And that's how I can justify it. I'm like, well, if people are talking about me, my company benefits, and so it's all good. It's all good. Totally. Yeah.

Kristen, thank you so much for coming.

And call her dad for having me.

You're amazing. Oh, my God. We're have to do it again. Close.