The whole notion of, like women not making the first move is so fucking crazy, because I imagine that this part of your life could make up for potentially two thirds of your overall happiness and you have no say.

Hi, guys, welcome back to another episode of Girl's Got to Eat October spooky.

See, then I had a real you got to join your spells. I had a nice walk this morning with Chris out. It was beautiful. I got a little pumpkin spice latte. Crisp, crisp. OK, OK. I knew it. I knew those. Listen, we even talked to my list in a while and some girl tagged us Instagram story asking her friend, Do I have a list? But no one told me like Rayna, like she was.

I texted her friend. She was like, Do I have a list? But no one told me, like right now. And I was like, No girl, you have to list ever since you got your retainer out. And she's like, do you promise you would tell me it was I sounded like Rihanna 30 years. I had no idea I had a lisp. I feel like I haven't heard it. Oh, you're fine. You're doing great.

You're doing amazing, sweetie. It's for my permanent retainer. Anyways, we have some great new partners. Let's thank them. Thanks to you, Cora, for supporting girl's got to eat. Get proactive about urinary tract health with Ucore out right now you Juarez offering 20 percent off for girls. Got to eat listeners when you go to you Cora Dotcom Sluggy that's ucu oh ah a dotcom sluggy and thanks to Bridezillas for supporting girl's got to eat visit bridezillas dotcom syzygy and you receive 50 percent off your first six bottle box.

And that's why you know, just so we're clear, that's what you bottles six bottles bottled up. And thanks to Candide for supporting girl's got to eat candid, clear eyeliners are comfortable removeable and totally invisible so you can transform your smile without anyone noticing. Get started today with candids, risk free starter kit and seventy five dollars off. Go to Candid Seo Dotcom Sugi and use cogie and thanks dirigible for supporting girl's got to eat better. Health doesn't happen overnight.

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OK, we're back from Ohio and I got to ask you. Oh my God. When this happened in March, when we shot everything that you think our first trip back on the plane would be a couple's trip to Cincinnati, huh?

Oh, my God, no. I want to see you guys know the key to any good relationship we always have. We don't sit together on planes. We don't stay together in hotels. And that's why we get along so well. It really is. And we don't like any of the same guys. Yeah, that's so true. It all the same taste never happened once. Yeah. We got back. We did Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland. Yeah.

I never saw that come in.

We would just take what, six months off. Seven months. Why don't we do Cleveland first. You tell it, you tell better. What. Because that's where we want to go. Because someone. Because someone asked. Yeah. Someone asked us, someone tweeted us come to Cleveland. And then I responded and said, we love Clarities, the club. And then clarities was like, we'll come on that.

And we were like, OK.

I was like, yeah, we kind of backed it out of Cleveland and added on Cincinnati where we'd never been, and Columbus that we've already been and we love we love it. So we had such a great time. I mean, those are like the best, nicest people. It really was such a good time. And obviously we have thought about these live shows every day since March and how much we must be with you guys. And it just was so fun.

And while the people were well-behaved and safe and did the right thing and wore masks and were respectful each other and Abbas, and it was just such a dream to be on stage again and be with you guys, and we're going to keep trying to do it as much as it's safe and possible. Yeah, it was really safe. Like the tables are. I think they actually measured like six feet between tables, polarities. I'm not sure about the others maybe, but Clarities installed a whole new system to like put like instead of recirculating like stale air like they are is these dividers between tables.

I felt like if you adhere to the rules, which everybody did, you know, you're totally safe. I'm laughing because although, like, they have to stop serving alcohol at 10:00 p.m. and like, that's my vibe. Like, I'm never trying to stay out past eleven. I know. Maybe eleven thirty. But my vibe is like ghost before midnight always. And I don't have to anymore. You just go home. I know it's perfect. So we had such a good time, we just had like all these really fun, wild like memorable moments and I just want to share one.

No I want you to share your favorite which is different than very different than my favorite.

And this is also an update on a listener story we talked about a few weeks ago, our episode with Kelly Night about doing specials. We had heard you tarot readings at the end for a few listener submissions, stories. And if you guys listened, this girl submit a story that said she was dating this really great guy, but she was thinking about women and she was interested in women. And Kelly pulled the cards and told her she really needed to explore women, whether it meant telling this guy, Reynie, I think you mentioned like just tell him, see what he says or just breaking up with him and really, like, going that going down that road because that's like really what her soul wanted.

And she came to the one of the shows she emailed us and she said, I have an update. I actually played the podcast for the guy I'm dating. And he was like, I don't want to deprive you of something like, you know, basically I still want to date you, but you can do this and date other women. And so she came to the show. We really can. We can. We mentioned this at the show.

She said we could. She we were like chatting with her, she was the audience and then she even said she was like, so if there's any girls here tonight, you know, that are interested. And this girl raised her hand right in the front row. And then we brought them up, by the way, pitch black club. We can't see what we can see what they look like. And then they both came up and they met.

And I really feel like they've arrived immediately. They're the prettiest girl, the prettiest girls. I mean, all of our audience. Yes, but we were joking that, like, of course, that guy was like, do you do whatever you like?

As long as I could hold on to you. She seemed like the sweetest, coolest chick and like, stunningly beautiful. You know, she walked up and say it was like both of us were like, of course. And the other girl was so hot. So go off and send me a video I want to watch, you know? So that was probably my favorite moment. We had some other that was Columbus' Late Show. Someone else crazy happened to like these girls.

They had like a crossover with one of their exes. What?

It's all about each other. Yeah. We're really like, please. So my favorite moment came show number six, Cleveland winner in six shows in four days. That was aggressive. Yeah, but my my favorite moment six show we get on stage and we always like asked like see who's the audience. And we look around, it's like once in a blue moon and a few couples always and we always like talk them. There was this guy and he was like really cute.

And he was at the table, three girls. And we were like, you know, like, which one of them are you fucking? And he's like, no, I'm here to like, see, Rayna. And I was like, tell some stories tonight. They you see, if you like yourself.

And I told probably the most pathetic story about my daily life and the most fucked up story in my girlfriend.

And I can tell you, he really was so cute was you. And we got on stage now. She was like, Taqaddum, you. And I was like, no, it's so weird. And I like, looked it up, but I'm like searching for his name because, like, a lot of times we'll get off and somebody usually the security guard that I've been sexually harassing will have done me and he never done me.

And Ashley did the me. He switched his stance mid show. You think it's too bad you didn't come to the bar after?

I would have loved to see you so awkward. I go read it like I did when she was like no.

Oh oh weird. So weird. I did Gabi his Instagram handle. I looked up, I was like I like searched.

He like for real, did not like even look at his Instagram realized he was pretty. Oh he's very cute. The light was like hitting him in the face directly the whole night. So I was like, I mean fools had a lot of hair. Beard. Yeah. Yeah. And like a nice Midwestern kid. Adam, if you're out there like well because know I've said, all right, I think the most fucked up sex story of the whole summer that I had.

So I don't I don't blame him. Well, if you guys are coming to Nashville, you'll hear it. Yeah. So that's where we're going next. And then after that, who's to say, you know, I'm asking Jared wherever Jared's going, Jared to Dallas. I mean, who knows? We're on the we're on the follow Jared tour. I love Jared Freed, but I'm a friend of mine. He's his number one fan. It's so embarrassing.

I said I'm going to buy her a cameo video of him. No, you're not.

You're not going to buy a cameo from our friend. We'll will support him, I guess.

Yeah.

I've been in December. I've been planning this for months. Oh, my God. I saw that he was on there. So that's her birthday present is so funny. I support it. I mean, I probably could just FaceTime him and be like, say hi to my friend, but I don't care.

Yeah, OK. I have one more update and that is that I got a DM last night, ten, thirty seven pm from this girl and she said, hi, huge fan. I'm out in the East Village and a bartender came over with a perfume spray and went rogue on. My friend was the bar you went to on your date yada yada bar. If not, this is a wild trend. Yes, it was the same bar this. And if you guys listen, this is a couple of weeks ago I talked about how the server I was on this date and the server came over and sprayed me in the face with a little bottle of rose water, color me the least shocked I've ever been in my life.

Someone who is that rogue and out there that's going to spray you in the face has done it before and he'll do it again. I can't believe that happened to somebody else. I can. And again, if you guys listened or if you're new here, welcome. But he is fucking one of our listeners, Moms'.

If you're totally lost, go back and listen, because it's a good story. Yeah, well, I mean, that pretty much sums it up. Which episodes that three weeks ago.

I think so, yeah. Don't us. And we want to keep the short. We have an amazing episode for you guys today with Shann Bajram. I just like saying I am Shambu Jabuti. We love her.

Like if I was going to date a woman, I felt like I was on your date the whole time, the two of you been taken. And I actually didn't even you know, we were remiss to ask her if she would fuck, you know, if she dated women. Do you know? No, she seems pretty fluid and, oh, yeah, I just didn't know that's something that we talked about. I am curious. I know I'll be over here by curious about, you know, the whole time I was just thinking, like I could see you with a woman, like, that's the person I would pick.

I 100 percent agree. I think it's it's like the way that she looks, the way that she talks, she's like, really confident and she's like Big Dick Energy. She's so smart.

She's right.

And I just like the way she makes me feel when I when I masturbate to her and not recommended it that I actually like out of one hundred and forty something episodes.

I don't know how many guests. One hundred guests.

This is the most I've ever really seen a guest for you and you really go and and of all the men and women, this is the most I've ever seen through. Like, you know, you said I should date Guy Wenche, which I should. I really feel like you should if you're listening. Just you said you want to be friends, so let's get it going. Well, actually, this is actually a perfect segue into what the game is.

The we we asked you guys what your go to sex work. Yeah. Sexer. I have some advice for sexting in general, but I think you should take one of those lines and start right after sex. She said she's like, Hey Ashley, first of all, I'm pregnant. I know. She's so wonderful. We were so excited to have her. But before we get to it, I just want to give one review. I took notes, like when you take notes.

OK, so Emily in Paris came out on Netflix. This is a show created by Darren Star who created Sex in the City, who created nine 00 to one hour Melrose Place younger, which I will touch on younger.

But anyway, Emily Paris is on Netflix about this girl named Emily.

She's played by Lily Collins. It's like pretty it's a cliche story. She gets she gets a job in Paris and she goes to Paris and whatever.

OK, there is a narrative that it is like Sex and the City. And if you miss Sex in the City, you'll like it. I am so offended by it. Sex the City was ahead of its time. It was so edgy. It was like so raunchy. It was clever. It felt real. It wasn't like fucking cheesy, like Emily. Paris is watchable.

It's decent, it's fun ish. It's contrived. It's just kind of corny. And I like corny stuff sometimes, like, you know, I love a Hallmark holiday movie, but I just feel like it should have been so much better. And they're also comparing it to Gossip Girl. I'm like, am I taking crazy pills here? Like, how can how dare you compare the show to Sex and City and Gossip Girl? How dare you? I am just honestly so offended by it.

It's just not edgy. There's like sort of surprising moments. I texted you. I was like, oh, she's having face time sex, like, sort of surprising, but they almost feel misplaced because the rest of the show just isn't cool enough to support those moments. Is that these contrived moments that don't feel like that could ever happen on Earth? No, not that. It's just like the show that the show was kind of cheesy, like the tone.

I don't know how to describe it. Like, I guess you could kind of compare it to younger guys. The same creator is younger, but I think younger is so much wittier and so much better. And they might also just be compared to just Sex and City because it has the same creator and same costume designer Patricia Field, who also Dead Devil Wears Prada. But I personally think so many of the clothes and Emily in Paris are so heinous.

There is just like so many bright colors and so many patterns. And I know everything is designer and I know people are like watching it for the fashion. But I am not a fan and I loved the Fashion and Sex in the City and Devil Wears Prada, and I just don't think it compares at all. And the very last thing and I'm going to say is that she's also like an influencer. And look at the influence. Her stuff is so dated and corny.

Like every time she uploads something to Instagram, a little piece of me dies. Like it's like older people wrote this. And I'm sure that they did. Like, I know Darren Star is like an icon in creating these shows, but it still comes down to like the writers, the producers, you know, it's not just the creator. And like, I don't know, I feel like they missed the mark. The scenery is beautiful. The actors are beautiful, though her best, the girl, the plays, her best friend is really funny and fun to watch.

That's probably best part of the show. The guy that she's like interested in, that's her neighbor is like super fucking hot and it is shot in Paris like it's shot there. So it's like beautiful. But also I read that French people hate it, like the verdict is in from real Parisians and they're not a fan. I guess just the end of the day, I just I'm seeing all these like online publications call it the modern day Sex and the City.

I'm like, are you guys high? Yeah.

But also, like, I feel like this is such like a played out narrative of, like, the modern day Sex and the City. It could just not like, why do I have to compare it to, like, one of the greatest shows of all? Well, the thing is, I think that we all do love shows like Sex and City and Gossip Girl and are always seeking out shows that are on that level. This just wasn't it like shows that I would put on that level insecure.

Obviously, Girlfriends Guide to Divorce was great. Younger again, I can't help it enough. It's just like this, wasn't it? And it's just so corny. She just like, upload something. The dumbest hashtag, and I'm like, did what did you guys not talk to, like actual young people? Like, it feels really weird. I always feel like this is people that are in their 40s and 50s making shows about people in their 20s.

You know, it's like, was there anyone that was even like in their 30s in the writing room? It is odd because like even Sex in the City, like it's about women. And they had men in the writers room being like this, how men behave.

And I think in Sex and City was like women in their thirties. Probably there was like women in their 30s, like this is supposed to really speak to like a young girl, like young millennial, maybe even like borderline GenZE audience with like the influence or stuff. And it just like, oh, my God. So anyway, I mean, again, I watched it. I didn't like to turn it off, but don't be out here comparing it.

Actually offended that she's personally offended. I personally offended. We had a much different day yesterday. I lay in bed watching murder stuff. I watched this new doc on Netflix, which I super recognize called American Murder. They said that they dug pretty deep for that title because he's American and murdered his wife. And it's a pretty horrific story, but really well done. It was an hour and a half. It's not a super long commitment. And I always like to recommend docs to you guys.

And I have a commitment for this week of two commitments for this week. You're on a date. You're going back out there.

I am out there. Adam and I are. Adam and I broke up. He's dating.

You know, my commitment this week is so I normally on my bike, I normally take classes from friends of ours that are like flywheel instructors. I signed up for Peloton and I'm taking Alex Toussant this week, and I'm very excited to let you guys know how it is. Yeah, he's the best. He's like my favorite instructor. But also we love Fred. We love Bobby West Side. So take those two. Yeah, I put them both in my story all the time so you guys hopefully know who that is.

But I was a real piece of shit this week. I ate fried food and drank every night and I only worked out once. So we're on the road. So you'll get back back to it. When it's not back. No one will motivate you like Alex does. I do not want to be out here given peloton ads.

I feel like I'm going to masturbate. I'm just gonna be. Do you work out? I'm like, I had to stop.

If anyone knows Alex who's I like, we love to have them on because I would love that if he were married. I know nothing about him. I will. He'll let us know when you guys let us know someone. Someone's got to know him. I'm in custody. I'm moron. His manager, whatever. His manager. I don't know. He's like a. Above him and Ali love, OK? Well, we're about to get into it with Sân, but we just want to run through a few of our partners really quickly.

I am telling you guys about you, Cora. So we love discussing women's health, obviously. And this is a women's health product. As you may know, you guys might get UTIs, UTIs are massive health issue affecting one in two women. And yet innovation has remained stagnant until now. And of course, everybody says, like, try Cranbury, but a lot of people need more support than just paying after sex. Weiping correctly and cranberry juice.

So Ucore was created by a chronic UTI sufferer who had tried it all and was sick of the constant cycle of infections her experience inspired her to create. Yukihira. I personally don't get UTIs, but I know friends that have had to get them like every time they have sex, like I know people that are like so chronic. So I actually sent this product to one of my friends who gets chronic UTIs because I want her to try and report back.

And she says that she can tell a difference like right away. It's like this basically. It's a proactive urinary tract health supplement developed in the best research available in collaboration with top physicians and scientists. So super trustworthy, you pour a packet of Ucore with a glass of water and you drink it after sex or whatever you feel you need support. So I think a lot of people that get UTIs like feel them coming on like I think like I know so many women that have sex and are like, well, here we go, another etai.

So if you feel it coming on or after sex again, you just mix it with your drink. It's easy, effective, and it tastes like pink lemonade if you're curious how it tastes. And it basically flushes and cleanses the urinary tract and also boosts your immune system, which is especially important after sex or exercise. There are other products include a vaginal probiotic and a daily supplement to cleanse biofilm from the urinary tract. But the main thing and the thing that my friend tried and really felt like she could feel the difference was the packet that you pour in your water and you, Kaura, has helped over 100000 people stay healthy and counting.

So we're super into it. I mean, I can't imagine anything worse than, like having sex and like knowing you might get an infection afterwards. I had a long distance relationship, and so I it like go for like a couple of weeks not having sex. And I have a lot of sex with him and I would always, always, always go back. And it's like indescribable pain. It makes me so sick. I feel at a when we heard about this, a girlfriend of mine was like, I love you, who are absolutely obsessed, like she saw the name and like, jumped out.

Yes, exactly. So we recommended and of course, we have an offer for you get proactive about urinary tract health with you. Kaura right now Ucore is offering 20 percent off for girls. Got to listeners when you go to you Corre Dotcom Sorgi And that is spelled UCU Oh are a dotcom ciggie. Yes and I am really excited. Tell you about a new partner of ours. It's called Bright Cellar's. It is a personalized wine subscription company. Basically you go online, you take this quiz which I'll tell you more about and it matches your taste wines.

The way that I shop for wine is I generally just get the same thing over and over again. Like, I don't I there's like a couple of a couple of them had to wine that I tend to gravitate towards, but I don't get to like creative. And so I'm always just drinking the same thing. And I've never really gotten super creative with like buying new stuff. So this is a great way to experience new wine that has sent directly to your door, because of course it is heavy and I hate carrying.

That's very true. Yeah, I couldn't go carry six bottles of wine home. No.

So this is a great solution. If you guys go to like a wine store and you never know what to look for, you feel silly asking questions. There is no shame. Of course not. But if you don't know what kind of wines that you like, you go online to Bridezillas Geo Quiz. It's seven questions. It takes like thirty seconds and it just asks about the different kinds of wine you like. How adventurous are you. Do you like, do you like, why do you like sweet.

You like dry and then it coordinates a box for you and it's six bottles of wine. It's so cool. I had a good time taking the quiz and I'll tell you guys about the stuff that I end up getting. But there's hundreds of private label wines that they have. They're adding new stuff every single month. It's a personalized wine concierge team. So if you guys need them to answer any questions they can on the website, they also have a delight guarantee.

So if you guys don't like a bottle, actually send you a replacement in your next box, which is an awesome guarantee. I drank this, but I didn't like it. That's exactly how I found it. And then you guys, I think, like after you order, you'll really love and want to do it again. After you receive your first box, you rate the wines and then you get future matches that are even better and more accurate for you.

Ashlynn, I've already gotten our boxes. The boxes are on. The packaging is like so great. Again, like we know holiday season's coming up. I can't recommend the stuff for gift or not or remember, like during the quarantine, I just thought you 20 bottles of wine, like just said that I remember was the best day of my life. I send it to a friend in need, you know, like the packaging is so cute. There's like two like tiers.

I guess there's three bottles in the top, three in the bottom and then all the cards to tell you what you just got in your box. Yes. Packaging font. Nothing is better to receive. Yes. And I tried a bunch of stuff that I never would have tried. I like a lot of whites and I generally only like really like Pinot Noir is like lighter reds. And they sent me stuff. It really was so spot on. I was like worried I was going to go about stuff I didn't like.

I liked absolutely everything. And I drank all six of those bottles. Oh, my God. And I like even and I just like having wine around at home too. I don't I usually like when I want wine. And I'll go buy one bottle, but I don't have, like, a lot of wine at home usually, and the other day I was going to a party and I was like, should I need wine? It was just so convenient I could have extra wine out of my fridge like an adult.

I love it. You just said that like the day that mine came, I went to a friend's and just had, like, a small gathering. And I was like, oh, my God, I can just, like, grab this bottle already. I, I just I hate not having wine, but you're right. Like, I go to the wine store down the street and I can only carry so many. And I got like I got a lot of whites.

I love Sauvignon Blanc for the Marlboro region of New Zealand. If you're looking to the back of my SBB.

So I got some of those are really good white blend and then a really delicious cabernet fall.

I love these suggested gifts. I think it's the perfect gift my parents would love. This did make me feel so grown up. Six whole bottles in my fridge. Yeah. I mean, I drink in a week. Yeah. I still act like a grown up. Yeah. Get Bridezillas and we're going to give you guys a really awesome discount so you guys can visit Bridezillas dot com slash Gigi. You guys will receive 50 percent off your first six bottle box.

That's 50 percent off your first six bottle box. Use our discount length to get your first six bottle bridezillas box for 50 percent off at B-R Ask.com Sluggy and get fifty percent off your first six bottle box. Yeah, and speaking of quizzes, our guest today loves quizzes.

Our all right.

My girlfriend loves quizzes together on dates. So let's get into it. Yes, we are really, really excited to introduce this guest to you guys today. She is a certified sex educator, dating coach, relationship expert. I flub that already. I with over 40 million YouTube views and a decade of experience, she is a best selling author of a book that I'm currently reading, The Game of Desire Five Surprising Secrets to Dating With Dominance and Getting What You Want, and the host of a Daily Show on Quarmby Sexology with Shambu Drame.

Please welcome to the show. Shambu Drame Poppin out the Cake, a hello pregnant lady in a cake way show.

We actually just on the show sexology.

We had a guest come on talking about honey trapping and she was saying because that's essentially like people who try to get your partner to cheat so you can prove their cheater. And she's like she's looking for a range of people because you never know what someone's type is. And I was like, should I be the pregnant Honeydripper?

Because that might be somebody's fetish. I'm so sure I can pop out of. You brought that up. Yes. I'm glad you brought that up in case anybody wants that. Yes. And you so you're right. You're our second eight month pregnant guest that we've had on the show recently to make me feel not special. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of us out there in twenty twenty. Many of us are pregnant this year. We know.

But you started it before. I did. When covid was just like a glimmer in the country's eye. You were like, I'm going to get knocked up.

Thank you, Ashley. You were on the forefront. You weren't out here just following. Everybody else was getting knocked up during covid. You've got it in on Valentine's Day. Yeah. So technically, I mean, I guess whoever, like, had sex on New Year's Day is winning, but no, I'm in second, which I'll take a second place. It's fine. I had sex on New Year's Day with my neighbor from upstairs. Oh morning.

I was like, hey, you want to come down and come and talk to me?

So it happened on January the 1st. Yeah, yeah. I kicked everybody out in today's money bag. Yeah, I'm more like say that have you? And we always ask people we love your origin story and how you got into this. So we always ask people, you know, in terms of your background, your expertise, what gives you the right. So we would love to hear from you. How did you get into this? What interested you about love and dating and sex?

You have the floor.

Yeah, I want to say first and foremost, I feel like this is an area that everyone should feel the right in. I think it's had a lot of barbed wire and a lot of tension around it. And even, you know, as a woman of color, calling myself an expert has been a place of contention. I've had a lot of contentious moments on various shows because of that. But I want to empower everybody to feel like you can be an expert in this space because you thought you date, you love, you connect, you are intimate no matter what your range is, your scale or what identifiers you use.

At the end of the day, this is not like some obscure topic that only five people should know about. Everyone should feel jurisdiction to feel like I know what I'm doing. I've put the work in and I actually have advice and relative experience that applies. So I actually think that my foray into sex education started off when I was like five years old. You know how like some people are just like the good, the good, the piano, like really good art when they were kids.

Just I just like natural attraction to the body. And a natural attraction to touch was always very physical. I think physical touch with my love language from the time I came out the womb. And I grew up in a Caribbean household and I went to a Catholic school. So if you put those three things together, it equals suppression. And so a lot of my natural urges and the things I thought were good and right were deeply discouraged. And as a result of that, I sort of just went into this, you know, area where I looked at my.

Sexuality is a negative part of who I was. Fast forward to when I went through puberty, then I was like, OK, well, these hormones have a different opinion, but I also thought it was bad still.

So I ended up really looking for back doorways, pun intended to express my sexuality, which ended up being watching a lot of the porn because I'm playing games and also to like reading fiction books.

And so a lot of my sexual instincts were based on lies. They were based on entertainment. So when I started to actually be sexually active, obviously it was shit. I had a really shitty teen sex life. I had a lot of partners, zero orgasms, didn't feel connected to myself, had very low self-esteem. So when I turned 19, I thought to myself, all right, so either everybody from my past was right. And this is a terrible place that causes green vulvas and heartbreak and copious amounts of like doom and a trip to hell, or I'm just interacting with it in the wrong way and I have to learn the right way for myself.

So I decided to try and see if there was a better way to be a sexual person on this planet. So I got a library card and just read all summer long and I read every book you could possibly read at the time that was available at my Pickering library reading from Toronto. But and what the thing is I came out with is that there's so much great information out there, there's so much life changing information that could really help a lot of people.

But as boring as fuck, like it's really dry and, you know, sex education in many ways is bad sex. So I just saw a need for someone to come in and make the information that was so good, as interesting as the porn and the fiction novels and Gossip Girl. And so why couldn't those two things be married? Why couldn't sex education be sexy?

And that was in 2004. And honestly, I wouldn't I would say that today my mission is still the same. I graduated from school for journalism, put out a book, became a sex education counselor in Canada and worked at the University of Toronto, moved to California. And I got an associate in sex ed and then got certified as a sexologist. And then it again just continued my mantra of how do I make this conversation as palatable and as exciting and inviting as possible, and how do I empower more people to be their own sex and relationship expert?

Then I love that. I also inspire. I think that's wonderful. Like, you're right. It's like, why should it be like boring and like dusty old books in the library?

Do you remember the first books or the first sex education resources that you found on your own?

I don't know. I mean, I honestly feel like I was less like a sexually interested kid. You know, like Raina, you like masturbators. The kid like I didn't really, like, feel those feelings. Yeah.

So I don't know. Like, I remember reading some Judy Blume books that touched on some some things. That's Jeannie. My story too.

Yeah. So I don't know, like I had a really good first sexual experience that kind of like paved the way in a really good way, like a guy that went down to me that made me feel comfortable with my body. So I felt like I got off on the right foot not to, like, brag and rub it in your face. I know you had such a big butt, but still didn't have an orgasm for two years later, you know what I mean?

Like, it was like, yeah, this is fun, but where is the hole, like, coming part that I saw in the movies. And conversely, I always masturbated. I could get myself off, but I don't think I came with a partner until like my twenties. I want to quote you back to you. I'm listening to your audiobook. I'm not reading it. But you said a couple of things that really stuck with me. And you talked about how, like with all these other things, like career and goals, that people do tons of research and consult experts and like, why aren't we doing this with sex?

And that the result is it like most people have no idea what they're doing when it comes alive, no idea what they're doing wrong, and as a result, no idea how to, like, change the romantic future. So, yes, I took notes on your book, but I just I, I love the reason you got into this. It's so it's so true. Like, if I wanted to learn how to be a doctor, I'd go to school.

I would research it. Why aren't we doing that more with sex and dating and actually researching it? It's the most bizarre thing because it exists in two different categories, like if you do research sex and dating, you're desperate, you're weird, you're doing something wrong or you're a super freak. And it's like that doesn't actually apply to anywhere else in life. Right. If I saw somebody on the subway reading a book about something, I'd be like, oh, they're the shit at that.

They're great at that. They're passionate about that topic. But if I see someone reading a relationship book in the subway, I'm like, what a fucking loser or what a creep and why it's such a bizarre thing to Silow off and to say that anybody who takes an active interest in their sex or dating life is either super freak or is super messed up. But the truth of the matter is, those are the people who are probably doing it well because they're putting the time and energy behind seeing the results that they want in the world.

Yeah, I'm not trying to like date the dude that was like a football star in high school and like, never I want to date the do a nerd sat at home. I just thought about how to eat pussy. That's the guy, let me be honest question. So if you go to. House, you go to a dude's house and he has a bookshelf full of sex and relationship books. What do you think? I would think you're a creep.

I would. Well, I don't know. I depends on I love the honesty. It's it's a loaded question. And I feel like a good guy. I mean, are there three are there 50 like there are there other books to look like a wall of sex books?

Let's say like it's 75, 25. There's a couple of like motivational books. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now. As it stands, I'm probably 75, 25 towards sex. 75. Yeah, sex and relationships. Seventy five. Twenty five. Like, let me look at one. I have one book that's called I'm like data nomics. That's not it.

With this book right here, the big book of Sex is. So I actually have one right here. There we go. See I guess I just have some follow up question.

Well, we ran and I dated these two guys, these two friends just one summer. We fucked these twenty six year olds and they really could fuck. And I don't know how I got the topic, but like he said that he took it upon himself to figure out what women want in bed.

I can't remember exactly the revolution. Yeah. Like where I read books, listen to podcast, talk to women like he realized, I don't know. Twenty three. Twenty four. Like, I don't actually know how to please a woman. I've never really thought about it. I've only watch porn, whatever movies read books. But like took an actual interest in like how can I please a woman in the bedroom. And that was so hot to me and the orgasms from both of them.

Unbelievable.

I think it's so hot. I think it's so incredibly hot if I see it just rare as well too, especially for people with penises, because like there's just the messaging constantly that your penis is going to cure cancer and be able to like, save the world. And so you feel like if you have to learn about it, then you're taking a step backwards. And so I love people who are like, no. And I would say that, like as an expert, people are like, oh, dudes must want to have sex all the time.

Like, dudes must really, like, always consider proteomic.

Never. I think it's actually the opposite. I think that most women are really drawn to me and have questions and want to start a dialogue. And a lot of men want to like, compete with me, ask about my credentials, ask how I know what I know. And I think what's underneath that is like the fear that I could fuck their girlfriend better than them.

I never made that claim I could. But I actually I'm just looking at you and like, I know you could fight all the girlfriend.

You just have a vibe about you. I can tell you can fuck. Well, can we have a few different things we won't discuss with you? But I think first off, we would love to talk about this dating with dominance and what that means. So we know our audience and everybody loves actual actionable things. And yeah, we just want to talk about it. Yeah. Not like, you know, just approach a guy in a bar and how can I be confident.

Yes. Or like be a prude. Be a bitch. Like play hard to get like it's these vague concepts will be a vixen so that you have to try to figure out what exactly that means. And again, going back to the fact that we all have zero education, probably very little scaffolding. But I think that the point is that a lot of people just assume that you're supposed to just be good at these things, that you're supposed just naturally know how to flirt.

You're supposed just naturally know how to walk up to somebody or how to have sex, how to give a blowjob, etc. There's supposed to be this thing or you learn on the job. You have to look into the right teacher. You have to also look into the ability to communicate what you like because people might learn something about their body and have no idea how to communicate that in the actual bedroom. And then again, there's like no tools to give you the language to describe those things, like even asking somebody how do you orgasm?

There's very vague descriptions. There's very vague language that's used. And so as a result, how do you pass that information on? So to me, dating with dominants essentially is having a clear goal, knowing what you want and feeling like you've got some actionable steps behind it, like you're not in the passenger seat. I think a lot of the messaging that women get as well, too, is that like women in a tower sort of thing of I want to have a partner one day, I want to have great sex, I want to have an orgasm, and then we're waiting for the right partner to, like, come and give us this experience.

And even the whole notion of, like, women not making the first move is so fucking crazy, because I imagine that this part of your life could make up for potentially two thirds of your overall happiness. And you have no say in who your pick is. You have no say in who you're talking to. You're just hoping the person that you like is going to have the gumption or be having the right kind of day or not accidentally swipe left.

And you when they want to swipe right, like you're putting so much power in other people's hands in an area that has a massive impact on your well-being. So that's where dating to dominance means. I think people interpreted that like I'm telling people to go up to dudes at bars, like, can I buy you a drink?

I could not at all. Suggesting that it's even the first move, I think is not what people think. The first move doesn't even have to be walking over. It could just be positioning yourself around somebody. It could be a gesture and a look over. It could be making sure that there's. Rabbits of eye contact. It could be standing beside the person at the bar after being in their bubble for a while and seeing if they bite. So the first move doesn't even have to necessarily be that overt.

Can I get your number? But in essence, you're you're playing a role. You are an active participant in this part of your life because why would you not want to be me?

Right. I think there's so much information that comes from our mothers or it's things that are outdated or something that worked for someone else that doesn't necessarily work for you. And I think that you can't just tell everybody to sit back and wait, because what is the point in that? How many missed opportunities but you have everywhere? If you just sat back and waited exactly.

In your job or if you guys just waited for someone else to give you a podcast, if you're just like, well, if it's meant to be the right answer.

Yeah, OK. I love this thing. If it's meant to be because it's like I was talking to you about this yesterday. It's just not how I live my life. Like, if it's meant to be, it might be meant to be. No, if it's meant to be, I will take actionable steps to push it in the right direction. I don't believe the universe is going to drop shit in your lap to be an active participant in the it's meant to be.

I'll make it big. And there's all kinds of stories around. There's always going to be somebody who I meet who was just like, Yeah, I just met my forever partner just walking in the street, like even getting pregnant, for example. Am I trying to conceive Journey because I was like public about that. It took me six months. The advice the number one advice I got was like, don't think about it. Just let it happen when you're not thinking it's going to happen when you least expect.

And I'm really proud to say the month that I got pregnant is when I was like fucking super anal about it.

Like we had all of the equipment possible.

We had all the great boobs, we had the right timing. We had the obvious strips. I bought special underwear to make sure the semen would like retention would be high. So the month that I conceived, it was like really, really intentional. And so a lot of my life story is very intentional. And the game of desire is written for people who want to be intentional. Of course, there's a flip side. There is the the whimsical right.

I always say that with L.A., too, you can move to L.A., get a job at Starbucks and be like one day a big time movie producer will walk in and see me and be like, take off that apron like you're going to set. And then there's the people who have to come here and bust her ass and go to classes and suck up to casting directors and fail a bunch of times and go to auditions and almost get something and then get something that ends up getting canceled.

And Unkovic happens. Whatever your story is like, it doesn't have to be like this. Easy, happy go lucky story can be really intentional. And I always say, like, as much as it's great to have the Starbucks story, if that one producer, you know, who you lucked into for whatever reason stops working with you, you don't have the skills to repeat that again. You have to depend on luck all over again. So when you are intentional, no one can really take anything away from you, because even if an experience or a partner leaves, you already know the process to getting exactly what you want going forward.

Should you want to enter back into the game?

I love that. Like, how how do you know lightning will strike again? But let's talk about this notion of like gender roles. I know it's is it natural that a man still needs to chase a woman a little bit? You know, like I think you hear a lot of experts say, like there is still an innate feeling that like, you know, a straight CIS man does want to have a little bit of the chase with a straight CIS woman.

If we're talking about that. You know, I think women get a little confused where they're like, OK, you know, I'm happy to be in the driver's seat. I'm happy to do some things, but I still don't want to have to completely be in control of this. I want somebody to chase me a little bit. Is that what they're supposed to do? I mean, what do you say to that? I feel like if you're organically doing dating the right way, the chase is naturally going to happen, meaning that if I put the work into myself and I have confidence, I know I'm great in bed because I read the books, the exercise, the workshop, I listen to the podcast like I know that I'm a great dater.

I'm no I'm good at seduction. So as a result, I really prize myself so I don't ever meet somebody and throw my intentions at them. You know, I might have an ultimate intention for what I want out of dating, but every individual that I meet, I'm like, I'm always asking, are you worthy? I'm always asking, is this a good partnership for me? As a result of that, I'm moving slower. And you have to convince me, because this is like a small a slow, gradual process.

And if at a certain point I don't feel the same devotion or excitement from you, I'm going to start to back off. So I don't think you have to be really heady about the like. Oh, like, let me make sure that the chase is happening. If you're treating intimacy the right way and you're pricing yourself in every advantage or every step that somebody gets with you, they have to work for it. I think that natural sort of push and pull should exist and it should exist on the other side as well, too.

I don't want to meet a partner who's just throwing themselves at me because that makes me feel concerned. Like, you know, if you got free hamburgers on the street, right. There's something that you're like, why is this hamburger free? There's something always like this weird thing, like nobody else wants this hamburger. Like, it gets confusing for you because life doesn't work that way. So I think if you're around somebody who definitely is sort of giving everything away for free, there is cause for pause there and probably a lack of confidence.

It's at the root of the. Not necessarily a new game or tactic that they should adopt for themselves. Yeah, we always say, you know, relationships should be sort of like the icing on the cake of your life and you should always be working on yourself to have better friendships, better hobbies, better goals, better career. And then you show up to the relationship as a better person than you are a prize. And you don't have to be like I'm a prize and I'm a princess.

And my dad said, so it's like, no, I've actually worked on my life. I've given myself a good life and you should want to be with somebody like me. So we always say it starts with you first 100 percent. I mean, it could be heartbreaking when things don't work out. But at the end of the day, it's like when, you know, you have the skills to repeat your dream come true. You don't harp on the ones that are lost.

Like I always give the analogy, you know, like sushi never gets offended. If somebody else wants to eat pizza, it's like I'm not going to fucking put cheese on myself because somebody wanted that. I'm like sushi. I know I'm delicious. I know I'm Bob. I may not be everyone's cup of tea. Don't get me wrong, everyone's preference is going to be sushi. But there is like an inherent knowingness that I am worthy and I'm awesome and I'm great.

And if you don't pick me, it doesn't mean that somebody else won't be like, that's my favorite thing ever.

So one 100 percent. And we always say, just like live your life, like don't wait around. You know, when you become your best self, you're not radiating desperation. Like you're radiating like confidence. And it's not this like I don't need anybody type of thing. It's just like if this works out great, if not like I'll be OK. I think sometimes there's a neediness and desperation, not for men and women where the other person can sense it.

And so it's like we always say, like you can fuck a guy the first night and if you're just cool about it, it's fine. Like there's no rules for brain. And I both dated people that we had sex with the first night, like with because we just were like, cool, we and we weren't the next morning, like, what are we, you know what I mean? Like I just like my fuck buddy, right. Owning it.

And again, like be confident is much easier said than done. It takes work, but that's the fucking truth. I want to mention that, Ashley, because you've got three people sitting here who talk about this every week, who listen to people's stories, who read books you have experts on all the time. The two of you are experts. You have created an environment in a community. And so this is not us just being like believe in yourself.

You're a bad bitch. You know, they deserve you. They got to work for you. If you haven't put the work in, it's like you can't expect to be an incredible cook because you set the intention for yourself. You can't expect to be great at golf just because you have the confidence in yourself. It does take a process and the game of desire is even like really just spelling that out, like, hey, this is not an overnight experience.

And that was even a learning curve for me, because in that particular book, I worked with six women and I called it like six weeks to being an ultimate seducer. Like that was my original idea. And then, lo and behold, six months in, we were on phase one still.

And I was like, oh, you don't realize like I developed really shot that. Yeah, I really overshot it because I'm like, these are people who've never done this work before.

You know, it might have been easier for me to pick up these concepts because I've been in the space now for fifteen years. And so and I talk about it constantly. But for them it was brand new and everything was so much slower. So if you don't feel like I am a boss right now, that's a starting point. It's not necessarily an invitation to like delusion. Yeah, for sure. Well, we're going to take a quick break to talk about a couple of our partners.

We're going to get right back to Sân. We are talking about candid. It's about teeth. What you know, I am obsessed with my teeth and how they look. And obviously the first thing that everybody sees about you is your smile. I think that as we get a little older, you know, our teeth shift and it can be a little intimidating to do something like get braces. And you're like, I don't know what to do, but I feel uncomfortable about this candidate is a really, really great solution to that.

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And let's get back into Lashan.

So you've done the work on yourself and your show on Tuesdays and I think the people are like, OK, so like what are the actionable items I can do and how do I ask somebody out or get asked out? What do I do on the date? I love what you talked about, what you talk about on the date and when you leave a date. I thought that was all really great and I think a lot of that really drums up passion and desire.

So we want to give people actionable items so we don't want you to give away your whole book. You should buy the book. But like, at least like a few teases, takeaways, you know, of things that people can do, because I think it's kind of like blow people's mind and then they'll want to I like to want to know the whole thing, what was really great.

So in the book, I had like a series of experts come in because seduction and dating in general in love, like they're not necessarily like siloed off skill sets. Right. You can learn from every different perspective in every different vocation. And so we actually had a stripper come in who I thought was really when you think about the perfect person to talk about how to make the first move, because their entire job is to walk up to strangers like, hey, daddy, do you want to dance?

You know, like, hey, mom, what's going on? Like, you have some time for me. And so and then to create a rapport, because the longer they can stay with you, the more money that they make. And so they their whole career is dependent on creating really fast, intimate connections. And if they don't, then they don't make money. So the stripper was saying to us, like, how she figures out what clients are receptive in which ones are not.

And so what she does is she looks at somebody and first and foremost always takes their temperature. So becoming an expert on body language, even subtle things like do they have if they're a woman, for example, is their purse up or is their purse down? Are their shoulders closed off or is it opened up to you? Have you noticed that person? Has I pointed their hips in your direction before you even go up to somebody? Is there some nonverbal communication that happens so it doesn't end up being like a cold open?

So have they looked at you? Have you waved at them? Have you created some kind of interaction? And then once you have all of these different cues that this person is going to be receptive, obviously we're talking about in person online, but you make that entrance and then you start the conversation and you start the conversation off with a question. And if the person doesn't ask you a question back, you get the fuck out of there because they're selfish and weird.

So if I ask you, you know, like what's and they're not trying to get you. They're not trying to keep you there. Exactly. And if they are in the room, they're going to be like, oh, fuck.

She came over and asked me a question. I said something so stupid and weird. And now she laughed like they put the effort into going. Go over there because I dropped the ball there, so that's every step of the way again, you're looking for reciprocation, right? You're never just like, oh, they didn't wave back. Oh, they didn't ask a question. Let me keep investing time. Like, no, you're not reciprocating. I'm out.

And something interesting that she said that I really took from is that everybody is so bored of the typical conversations, are so bored even with social media, really bored of compliments. Even we're bored of like your output's really great are like like your hair or whatever. So in order to engage people, you want to make your conversation sexy or weird and so weird. Weird could be weird. Yeah. It's memorable either. Memorable. Yeah.

And so she's like the stripper topics are like the most expensive thing that you've bought recently, something that you're eyeing that you're dying to do your thoughts on. Like the goriest of movies. Sex obviously is a stripper topic like money, vacations, decadent foods, like the things that get people exciting and like bring up their arousal. Like those are the things you want to dive into as a topic. And so I feel like everybody should know and practice the stripper topics.

Are you saying that is like an opener or like on a first date or both? I guess.

Yeah, it's it's a first it's an opener. It could be a first is. Well, it could be on your dating app. Right. So rather than me swiping on somebody and being like, oh, like, hey, look, what part of New York do you live in? It could be like, oh, I saw that you were in Peru last year. Did you go to the red light district? It's crazy. Or if you were.

Oh, I looks in your profile page, I saw that you have a dog like, did you know that a dog's fart can help to cure acne, whatever it is like a weird thing, but like. Yeah, yeah. Something interesting, something that's observational that shows you're paying attention is not copy and pasted but something that wakes somebody up. And I do that in my everyday life all the time. That's the thing too. Is that like becoming great at these things.

If you just practice like imagine being an NBA player and you only practice dunking like in a game, you're not going to be good.

You practice all of the time, like when you go out when you're waiting in line at your local coffee shop, like constantly practicing and seeing what works and what doesn't. I've definitely, as you can tell, I'm a bit more of like a direct person. So I've been to direct in conversation sometimes and I've learned that I had to scale back. I only learned that because you see people's reactions enough time and say that isn't what I want to accomplish.

So let me try to curve my approach.

And also I think that, like, you know, saying have confidence is an ambiguous thing. But I think you can find confidence in the fact that, like, it just doesn't matter. This is a stranger. So if you say something to a stranger at a bar on a dating app and they don't receive it, well, who cares? Keep it moving straight. They don't know shit about you. You know, I just I also just like the idea of I mean, I don't know that I'm going up to a stranger in a bar and being like, what's your favorite scary movie?

But like, I mean, I, I usually like to, like, comment on something observational in the in the room, which I think can work. And then again, gauge if that person even cares to talk to you because they'll they'll come back if they want to keep you there. But just come in just having stuff to talk about and dates like I think people think that's so like nerdy to prep for and it's just not like my my best girlfriend.

I used to joke that, like, guys would ask us, like what our hobbies were on dates and we were just black out and now we would then we we started to rehearse our answers.

Like when a guy like asks like what kind of music you listen to, I'm like I get put on the spot. And I literally started to think about these things in advance. And I don't know if you watch love on the spectrum like we did, like this one thing that I loved and again, these are people that are facing more challenges than the average person without any disabilities on dates. But like they were running through, like, ask her this topic, see the response and gauge it like I love what you said about asking people things that gets them aroused, not necessarily in their loins, but like in their life.

Like, what was your favorite trip? Like food, like stuff like that. People get, like, juiced up to talk about, like I was one of the state with this guy and then he just like texted me every day for a week asking what I was up to that day. And I was so bored and turned off. I'm like, send a meme or anything. Like, What are you up to today? I don't care. Well, those are also not details about somebody like details your sort of inconsequential.

Yes. I want somebody that has like a career that's happy, whatever. But I've been like sort of talking to somebody recently and another we've had like a serious conversation about his thoughts and beliefs and his his like, we just shoot the shit and talk and I just get to know them and we ask silly questions at each other. And we're talking about that, too, like you like this guy and you're like, I don't think I know like where he grew up.

I always talked about other cool, cool shit like. Yes. What if you had a million dollars to spend today and you had to use all of it, you couldn't invest it like real estate. What would you do with a million dollars? That's the kind of shit I want to know how you're mine. Our question I want to see if you're flying your whole family to France. Are you donating all of it to charity? Like, I want to know what you're doing with that money, I.

That's like I don't know. Yeah, I carry you went to college, but like, not as much. Well, Raina mentioned something to she feels like this is a fault of hers. You address it in the book as well as the like is the leaving and not spending hours and hours going to different places and spending the whole night with somebody on a first date. Can we talk about that a little bit? Yeah, absolutely. Like they'll leave them wanting more.

Yeah.

I think that at a certain point you sort of realize that you've hit like your moratorium and you've made your work is done. Did you guys Seinfeld fans at all? Yeah, of course. Do the episodes like George Costanza, like learned like when he's made a good joke, it's time to leave. Like George is just a joke. And then he'd stay a little longer. This day on this.

So I think that there's something great just about being like even if you fuck the person, you know, like what we've experienced will be shared is good. And I've had a great experience and it's time to leave. It's like eating. You know, you've eaten and you've enjoyed the meal. And you have that moment where you're like, oh, should I just, like, shove some more in my mouth? And then you do. And you're like, oh, I feel sick now.

And the meal has a whole different tone to it. So I think there is something really nice about knowing when to take your leave and knowing when good and good enough has already been accomplished and to leave somebody wanting more like because I will go to five bars with you, I'm like, this is fun.

I have a lot to say. We're going to move in with somebody. They come home with you and never leave. That's our goal. They just they're like, hey, I'm on the lease now. It's 5:00 in the morning. We're making out. We've been in five locations. And it's like, I don't know that that billboard, it's fun and it's easy to get into, but I don't know. There builds desire and a person to want to follow up for the next date.

They've had the whole relationship with you. So, you know, if you got to lead, you want a little more. Yeah. And I love Matthew Hussey and he talks about that, whereas, like, sometimes he'll be out somewhere with friends and they'll be having a conversation. Somebody might join. And it's enjoyable at first. It's like nice to have this new addition and kind of sexy to have somebody who approaches. But then you notice that they're not leaving and then it gets awkward.

And now I have to, like, get this position of like, how do I get rid of this person? And I enjoyed having you here. But the truth of the matter is, is that like the the experience is done. So I think like that second sense of when that's happening is a pretty important thing to develop.

And then I want your feedback on dates over you left at the appropriate time frame. By the way, Matthew was on the show in February and talked about how to approach people at bars, which was great. But OK, so date's over, you leave. I want to talk about who sends the next text, what the follow up communication should be like and like how much are you texting in between dates?

You know what's so much more important? I think people often really think about dating or connecting in terms of the other person. Right. Like, how do I get the best out of them? Or like what is the archetype that I'm looking for? That's my best archetype. Really.

What you should be focusing on is like, how do I enjoy myself? Like what environments, what circumstance will allow me to be my most relaxed version of me. So if you know that if you send the first text, you're the kind of person who's going to overanalyze and dwell if they actually even wanted to see you, if they are invested, don't in the text. If you feel like sending the first text is going to make you feel like you've put yourself at a lower position and don't.

But if you are like, I don't care, you're irreverent about it, you just want to talk to the person and you feel like if they don't respond for two hours, you can still be cool. If they respond the next day, you're not going to be but heard about it. So it's really more about knowing yourself and putting yourself in a position to be fucking cool, funny, relaxed, chill, awesome. We talked about that just now, just like how after sex or anything else, like what's a really big component is how you respond.

But sometimes we put ourselves in environments where we set ourselves up for failure. We're naturally we're going to be on edge or anxious or insecure. And that's the thing that you want to avoid at all costs. I was mentioning I was in a friends with benefits with my husband and what was a really important thing for me, because it was just it wasn't you and it was a fuck buddy situation. We were not friends, but when we started the relationship a connection, I knew that if I was the one texting first, I would feel that like, you know, like when you put in a quarter to slot machine and you pull and you're like, well, I get Sevan's, you know, and even though I don't care about the quarter now, I'm invested in the process.

And so to stop myself from getting too invested in the feedback loop, I just said I'm never texting first. If he responds, if he text me, I'm going to engage right away. I'm not going to play games, but I am literally never going to send good morning text or yesterday was great text. And so that was really helpful for me to keep the relationship positive and fun. And then ultimately it gave it a chance to progress.

I'm conscious of that. Like it's not about like manipulation and playing games. It's doing what's natural to you and what's going to make you feel good and stable. State, you know, what a great word overload.

Yeah, underrated. Underrated. And I'm just a big fan of like if things get to a point, just like say in the thing and like a cute flirty way, like we had on a therapist guy winch who was just like, say the thing but make it cute, you know, like throw in the smiley face the whatever. The guy, the guy that. Like living in my dorms, we've gone out far to meet a great time, and he just wasn't communicating with me in any other way.

And I finally was like, Hey, here's my number. Unless you want to live in my dorms forever, smiley face, whatever. He texted me immediately, like and I've also had guys that just want to text and text and text. And I said something about hanging out again or and I said something to kind of in that snarky tone with a smiley face. And he didn't respond. And I don't care because if that scared you off, you know, I said it in a cute way.

I clearly want to see you. You're not taking the bait. You did just want to text me forever. And now I know and I can just move on, like I think sometimes saying the thing, saying in a light way that that's authentic to you and then being able to walk away from it can make you feel a lot better in terms of like sitting around waiting. Yeah, yeah.

That's indicative of where you're at in life and the confidence that you have and the self-assurance. And then also you don't operate obviously from a scarcity model of oh my God, if this person liked me and we connected and there may not be somebody else. So have to keep pushing on this. You operate from a place of there will be somebody else. But if you just came out of a bad breakup, for example, and you're feeling really insecure, what can end up happening sometimes when you start overinvesting in relationships is now your ego gets in the way.

And next thing you know, you're fighting or clawing for a relationship that you never actually had any business being in the first place. And so that's where knowing yourself and where you're at in life really should help dictate the communication style that you take on, because we can never forget and never should forget that sex and love is addictive, that we are pair bonding mammals who are born to bond. And I always encourage people to watch the movie like the March of the Penguins, just to be like this is how fucking addictive this thing is.

Like these people will walk up people, penguins will walk to the coldest, shittiest part of the world. Risk everything, mate. With someone that they just met, like biology is so, so strong. And so you have to be aware of that and aware of that pool that exists. And if you're not strong enough in yourself at that point, be honest. And that's what therapy is for. That's what self work is for the work that you all have done.

And so I think that it's great if you can get to that place, but acknowledge if you ain't there yet. Yeah.

That's why you work out yourself. I it is addictive being like is is he going to text me and what am I going to say back. Am I texting too much. I, I have tons of shit going on and I fall into that loop so like go do something else. Like I was sitting at home last night, I was like in a loop and then I like texted a friend, said, what are you up to. I walked out the door an awesome night and I never thought about this person again.

I always say, read a fucking book. I said it once and people just like picked up on that literally anything, literally any. Are you registered to vote? Do you make sure before you before you're stressing over again, texted back, please, for the love of God, make sure you register to vote, do a twenty minute work hour literally and never do anything besides staring at Shans. You take anything, literally anything. Read your book.

I just love what you said about scarcity. It's so important this if you have this narrative of this is the last guy I'll ever feel like this about the last guy to fuck me like this or make me laugh like this, it's just not. They might be somebody that you remember forever for that reason. But like this, it's the it's the only chance or it's the only guy or it's the only this or it's the only that. Like just check yourself.

And I think people need to consider that if that's how they're operating. And then that's when the desperation comes into play. And that's when the the person on the other side can feel that radiating from you, that you're like trying to sink your claws into them. Yes.

Or maybe it's time to move if that's the case, you know, because if you live in a town with only three options and like one of them is going to you and the other one right now, you know, is one who pays your cost you exactly. The third your cousin. And then that's when you're like this has to work. How distant of a cousin? You know, the times are tough. I mean, actually, I recommend moving to New York enough.

And you can't recommend Moodle.

I cannot recommend to L.A. enough. Yeah. So that's the thing to you know, if you're devoted to success in an area, people would move for a career. No questions asked. You would move for friends, no questions asked. And so I think something wrong with also moving for love to increase your odds if you realize the community that you're in, they just that there's a book called Data Nomics that I love so much really talks about game theory and number theory when it comes to dating.

And the writer is just a finance guy, which is a number cruncher. And so he was just in essence saying that if you find yourself getting into that desperation mode, what that could possibly be leading to is a clue that where you are doesn't have the supply to to fit your demands. I just I really want to jump in on this.

I feel like I love that you said, like, move, because I think that some people are like, that's crazy. But you would move for a job. And if the number one thing in your life is both be a mother, have a committed relationship, maybe New York hasn't been working out for you and you should move. We know multiple people that have moved to Denver, three girlfriends to Denver from New York, all the boyfriends within a month.

I'm not kidding you. Like, they were like so unlucky, like New Yorker. Well, there was that there was stats on like the men there. I think everybody went and like tried to get it on that. But like three to four girls moved to Denver. I'm not kidding you. They one person's broken up, but they all got boyfriends immediately and that's why they moved. And what you. They yeah, they liked the city, but they went because they were like, I need more volume, I need a different type of guy, it's just not working out for me in New York.

And I like this other city and I can do my job there. And it really worked out for them. Yeah, there are different attitudes about love in different cities. I've never really lived anywhere else besides New York. It's ever Pittsburgh, but there is an overabundance of women here and they're all killing it and they all look gorgeous and they're successful and they're amazing and they're funny. All my friends are amazing and there's a huge abundance of women like that.

I think that makes you a little more disposable sometimes to some men, to the wrong kind of man. But maybe that isn't the case in all cities. Also, I love New York. I'm happy here. But you know, there is nothing wrong with moving for love the way you move for a job because lots of people move for jobs. No one thinks that's fucking weird. Thank you for teaching me about Denver.

I did not know that that was a Denver thing.

Oh, it's amazing because, again, if you're a gay man living in Wichita, you would move to San Francisco, right. Or you'd moved to L.A. or you wanted to increase your odds because you just know your community is just not there.

Yeah, no, no. Although people might be very gay, I'm actually actually shallow to Kansas.

Well, can we you guys get the book for more tips and tricks on dating with dominants. Can we move on to some sex and communication?

Let's move on. Yes. Yes. OK, well, we asked our listeners, what do you want to hear from a sex expert? And one of the overwhelming things from people in long term relationships and brand new relationships was I don't how to communicate to this person what I want bad, whether it's my partner, I'll go down on me or and, I don't know, insult them by, bring it up or I want to have sex toys and I don't wanna look like a crazy freak for all of these kids.

So how can we be communicating better? Why is it important?

Yes. And that's I get my pet peeve. Quotes are definitely like the key to a healthy relationship is communication, because it's in essence like saying the key to a great painting is paint.

You're like, OK, that's did you want to get more specific, like worship?

I like what colors and not if it's shitty paint, shitty paint or it's a bad canvas or like you don't have the right browns and you don't have the fucking skills. Like there's if you don't paint. Yeah. They're like do surgery better. Like I don't know how to do surgery.

You know, the key to great surgery is having a scalpel.

OK, out there. Yeah. It's having scrubs. Oh cute scrubs. Good playlist in the great. You would do a playlist. I sure do. What are Beyonce's best songs about surgery.

OK, so yeah I think that it's definitely like we lack specificity when we have conversations around sex and relationships. It's really vague terms and so I always challenge people and on my show Sexology, we have all these guests all the time and I'm constantly, you know, pushing people because they'll say things like, I just want you to be more vulnerable with me. What the fuck does that mean?

Like, what does that mean? Like, give a concrete hard example. I give the specific tool. Right. What does that mean? Well, we were having this conversation on the almost 30 podcast. And remember which one was saying I think was Lindsey was saying that, you know, in her relationships, what she finds is that there is like an intimidation around talking about wellness. And because, you know, she's really empowered in that area and it's really hard to find a partner who is just as communicative in that way.

And it's like, you know, if you're playing basketball with a three year old and you're an NBA player, tone it down like that kid's never going to want to play with you again if you're, like, pushing them over and dunking on them and scoring all the points and blocking their shots. Right. So LeBron on this toddler, on this toddler. So know all men are the toddlers and we need you down the road. I am LeBron, especially when I reiterate all I want to do is be LeBron.

I say it all the time. In either case, I think that when we say communication is key, we have to be really specific on exactly what it is that we want to say. One of my favorite quotes is great communications about isn't it about what you say? It's what you want to accomplish. And that takes having like an arsenal of tools. Right. The way that I communicate to my partner to do something for me is very different from how I communicate to my parents.

And so that's where you have to learn a lot of language. And also to look emotional intelligence is like specific language or tactics. And so psychology is really helpful in this way. And in the game of desire, the first chapter is all about these quizzes. I'm obsessed with quizzes. I fucking live for a quiz. But knowing things like what's my apology language, what's my love language, what's my big five personality types? What is my vac quiz?

And so these are ways of describing our intimate beings in concrete, like tangible ways. And if you ask me a follow up, I can be really clear with you. And so if we're in an argument and it's not going anywhere, I can say, just so you know, my apology language is acts of restitution. And that essentially means that I'll never feel resolve. I'll never feel understood until you offer a makeup back to me. And now I'm like, oh, I get that.

And so. If you think of it like that way, the communication is like getting the real clear language and specificities for yourself so you can communicate that to somebody else and then you can add nuance to it. It's kind of like when you're driving and you first go somewhere, you need super specific instructions to get there successfully. And then as you get better, you can start making stops along the way. You could turn a GPS off midway through.

You can, you know, change things up, go a scenic route. But in the beginning, I feel like you have to really specifically know how to guide people to successfully communicating with you and successfully loving you.

And if you don't know how to do that for yourself, it's going to be very difficult to find partners who can just guess the way they're so like maybe and I love I love all that, but maybe in the like, I want you to be more vulnerable. It sounds more like I wish you would open up to me more about your brother or your family or your or what's going on at work or like because I just picture the scenario when you tell a guy you want him to be more vulnerable and he's like, I literally don't know where to start.

I don't know where to start. I don't know what that means, like the actual concrete thing. And so I'm trying to think of a two bedroom example. I do want to just move on completely, acknowledge something that you said, which is that everything is communications, like a one size fits one. So getting to that goal, the end is different with everybody. And I argue with Ashley differently than I would with my mother than I would with sibling and a romantic partner, because all those people are very different, respond to different things.

I think that Ashley and I can spar back and forth and have like a really good conversation and no one's mad at each other at the end of it. Whereas like with my mom, I just let her go at the end of it. I just I just lay down and take it.

Then we get along in the bathroom. Yeah, I call me. Yeah, I text Ashley through it. I get in the car and call somebody. I'd cry. But I think that you have to know who like who you're up against, who's the enemy, you know, you're going up against and then sort of work your way through it because somebody said, like for example, to bring back to the bedroom, like, I want to ask my partner to go down on me more or be better at it.

But I don't want to, like, insult them. And it's like, well, how insecure is this person and how shocked are they going to be when you say it? And are they even capable of wanting to do that stuff? So I would approach different sexual partners differently if I felt like you're not eating my pussy enough.

And the point is that you really made is really great because like, if my goal is to have a partner who is more vulnerable overall, like we have to start with like a specific, actionable point that I think they can successfully accomplish, then it's a building block process. So you're not going to, you know, make somebody an incredible communicator in one shot. So it might just be, you know, when you come home from work, I can tell that you've got the stress of your day.

I know your boss is stressing you out. Can we just take twenty minutes? Just vent to me because I want to hear it so I can help you work through it or, you know, when we're cooking and sometimes you get frustrated because I give you any instructions.

Can you just stop and just like let me know how you want me to say something differently so we can work together better as a team like the more specific and nuanced it can be. And when it comes to like sex and having your partner try or get to new things in the bedroom also, unfortunately, I mean, obviously, when it comes to like going down, that should be a basic thing of like take your head. This is the direction.

But it's acknowledging that there's probably 40 steps in between that action and then feeling comfortable doing that action. And then you have to take those steps with that person. So it's having the conversation around anatomy and pleasure and what works for you. It's that has got the conversation around their comfort level. It's even like getting into more erogenous zone play, because if they're so gentle focus in terms of like penetration, like slowing things down to even back massages and then adding some tongue to the back massages, flipping them over, have them do the same thing to you, like using edible body paint, using markers or food in the bedroom, which encourages more looking like the step from like wanting someone to do what you want them to do and getting them comfortable in that space that's foreign to them.

It's not that linear. And I always get their questions kind of in more extreme ways where people are like, I really want to peg my partner. I don't think they're going to be into it. And you're like, OK, well, how did you get to that conclusion? Because you don't just wake up one day and be like, I had a dream last night. I want to fucking peg you. You, like, watched five videos.

You talked to a friend about it. You read a book, you saw some YouTube videos, you read a Cosmo article. Like there was so much education that you took on to get to a place of like I think I really want to try that or maybe use her for the first time you wanted to. But a lot of people, they haven't had the benefit of the experience that you've had to get to that place of comfortability. So, like, give your partner that benefit as well.

Like they need time to be educated and to warm up to the idea and to feel like it's approachable for them. And so the journey is just as important as a destination when it comes to trying to get your partner to open up in the bedroom.

I'm trying to think of somebody that's like, OK, but how do I start? You know, like, is it let's do this quiz I saw or do you like let's here's an article or like here's the thing, like almost put it on somebody else, like, oh, I saw this thing and interm rather than because I think it could be so intimidating for somebody to be like, OK, tonight we're going to pour some wine and I'm going to talk about how you don't see the right way like.

How do you I think it's so, you know, I'm going to fuck you in the ass. Yeah, it's I think it's just so intimidating. Yeah. And where do you bring it to? All right. You can watch a video or even sending you have to be with the person. Right. Like, look at this crazy video someone sent me watching movies that have that already built in there, like this guy was saying to me the way that he talked to his kid about sex, which is like not the right picture for this, but the way that he talked to his kid about sex was Grey's Anatomy, because so many different topics come up and that became their show.

And so they just use that as a natural catalyst, like a variety of different endpoints. And so if you're aware of certain media that's out there that's going to create like a natural pivot to the conversation, then utilize that right. And then always to it's like you have to give to get. So sometimes, like giving vulnerability, giving discomfort, like giving your own fears with something, allows somebody else to feel comfortable doing the same. It's be the change you wish to see in the world.

Tashan original and just come up with that on this just occurred to me. You guys are so deep I can't even tell last. I think that I never really thought about it, but it can be very shocking if if you're like just say there's in there like I want to pay you because that actually literally happened to me. This guy was like, what are your fantasies? I was like, I don't know, nothing crazy. And he was like, well, I like to get fucked in the ass and strap on.

And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And I was, I think 26 or 27. I'd never heard of that before. It shocked the shit out of me. I just felt like, yeah, it was like a real jolt to the system. But then I went online and I researched and I watched porn about it. And then I was like, OK, this isn't crazy, because my first thought was like, let me Google what is mentally ill with this person.

That's good for you, though, because some people are going to hear that. And the first thing to do is go to their friend King. Shame that person, make fun of them completely shut down, never talk to them again, talk about in their podcast and move the fuck on. Right. So he was wrong for how he approached it with you, but you were really, really right for the fact that you're like, OK, let me actually look into this, because a lot of people would not.

But that's a fear, I think that a lot of people said, you know, I want to it doesn't you pegging like I would just like to, like, bring a vibrator into the bed. Is he going to think that I'm this, like, crazy person? So, like, how do you tell people to, like, get over that?

I think it's like, again, if you didn't if it doesn't come across, like, can I fuck you in the ass tonight? And that came out of nowhere. So if it does if it's more a part of the gradual conversation, even if I wanted to bring toys into the bedroom, for example, I might like try sexting with my partner and just telling them like, oh, like I'm using my vibrator right now thinking about you or trying to even do, like, you know, video conferencing, sex.

They can see you masturbate and see how it's a part of your sex routine. I think lube is a really great, like first toy to bring into the bedroom because that's a good idea. Yeah. And so entry point is an entry point. Exactly.

And it's becoming comfortable with bringing in another item that enhances things for everybody. The magic wand. I honestly have all these toys for me right now too, which is so fucking weird.

But I said lube and I can literally I have like this with an orange reaction she just saw. That's what she was like. Lube. It's right there.

So it's like introducing the idea of bringing toys as a thing that you do to give more pleasure versus a way to subsidize because one person's not capable of giving pleasure. I think those are your entry points.

I think that is the most important takeaway of even being the change you see in the world, the original things like opening it up of like how can we make this more pleasurable together, even if your end goal is something that's just pleasurable to you, let's say in your body, like maybe it's even asking first, is there anything I can do? Is there any fantasies you have or that? I don't know, like I blow you better. I don't know, like, just almost putting it on them.

So you have an entry point to discuss it. Like, I the I think the worst thing that we can do is make our partner feel inadequate. So any way around that and like this is pleasure for both of us or how can I please you more? Now let me tell you how to please me more. I mean, I also just think, like, people are so lucky to have all this content that you can literally say, I was listening this podcast today and I heard this thing and I was kind of intrigued by it.

Like we had another doctor, Emily Morse, brought up this oral sex method where the guy lays perpendicular and kind of like his tongue goes like sideways. And I haven't had the opportunity to, like, force anybody to do that. I mean, but like, after we're done, it's a different than I thought. Yeah, I have layer up tonight. Hopefully I have been thinking about it of like how easy it would be to be like, oh, I was the same thing.

And like this a sex expert was talking about this method of oral sex and would you be interested in giving it a try? Like why not blame it on somebody else?

Hundred percent. I think that I love that you said that the worst thing you can do is make your partner feel inadequate. I think a lot of people's fears you're going to make a man feel totally inadequate. And it you wouldn't want to feel like that. I would want to be like that. And I wouldn't want anything framed. Like I'm not enjoying myself. I would want something framed as I am enjoying. And I want to do other stuff that we're going to enjoy, too, because that would be fun to not like I'm not having orgasms with you, you know, like let's do more cool shit, you know, no more cool shit.

And I love asking the partner to put on them to like, hey, what are your fantasies? What can I be doing better for you? Can I suck your dick more or whatever? Yeah.

And then a lot of people are prepared to answer those things either I think also to like kind of giving grace and space for these are really foreign conversations. The reason why you get asked these things all of the time is because they're not in the norm and people are still again, we don't have scaffolding, education to learn how to do it. And everyone's going to trial and error figuring it out. And a lot of times it's a lot of error.

That's a kind of crazy thing, too. I always find that people broached the conversation around like how to talk about things in the bedroom when something that you don't like comes up. And if you just naturally talked about sex a lot in your relationship when you love something or when it was really great last night, it would actually feel a whole lot less awkward to introduce new things or talk about things that you want to see less of. But because we don't talk about sex really ever.

And the only kind that we do want to talk about is when we're like that fucking sex. That's what makes the conversation awkward.

Well, and just that like we've talked about the multiple episodes of just like the first thing you can do to start speaking, the language is like send that tax the day after a hot sexual encounter. I loved when you did this thing. Like now you're sexting, you're talking about sex like we always say, like start it early. So you have the tools later and you aren't in a place where your relationship is stagnant and you didn't develop the tools early on.

Yes. I think, you know, the sex we had last night was so great. You know, I. I always tell people I hit them with the like I'm at work and I just keep I keep thinking about you bending me over this conference table, you know, just it doesn't you don't have to be out here being like my pussy. So when your hard cock like you can be a little bit of a classic classic, it's not that original.

But yeah, I think some women I love this quote, this one was like, I want to spice up with my man. I'm not trying to peg him. And I was like, OK, there is a huge like range between stale sex and pegging. And so I think a casual like I'm just thinking about you being inside of me while I'm at work is just an easy ease into it, you know? And then eventually you could get to pegging.

Right. But it's really difficult to go from. We've never talked before to like, can I talk about, like, putting it in your ass for the first time? And there's something so much more natural about it being an extension of the conversations that you already have. And that's even why I advocate for people to in relationships like start being clear about your boundaries really early on if you make it a part of the natural conversation. I don't like that or I don't do that or like here's how I do things.

Because what's so awkward is like after months of pretending that everything is great with you and that you love every food, having to start to broach like, oh, like how do I let them know that I'm actually an asshole in my own special, unique way.

So I find that the sooner that you could start making those conversations, the part of the groove and the flow of how the two of you connect, then the easier it is as the issues will get bigger and more mounting and as your requests for sex and your need start to change a lot as well, too. And even as you get older, obviously pain comes into play more or you might have different considerations. So it's so much simpler to just have that as a continuation of the conversations you've already started from the very beginning.

Yeah, I don't have any boundaries.

That's the that's the boundaries of the community that just do anything to be my body. Is your trash can. I know I'm not a big butt person like I don't want to, but when Lady Gaga and R. Kelly had that song together about that. Yeah. Do it all in my body. Terrible.

So weird. Terrible, weird choice for R. Kelly. Like for you. But that was a clue. Yeah. I don't want anything in my body. I don't like it. I think a guy's like what I like remet with their finger there. I don't want it. I don't want you to do it. But I'm like Jewish. So I'll say anything. But something that's been hard for me, like asking people is like I just want to watch guys masturbate.

I love it. I think it's so fun. I think, oh my God, it's so hot.

I think, why aren't we all doing this? But it is hard. It is hard for me to be like, no, you stay over there, know what you can do.

What I do with my partner a lot is that like we'll do like teamwork, oral sex, where I'm like giving head and he's giving himself the handjob. And then like, I'll just back up because, you know, you guys, you're you're doing this usually. Yeah. But you have your partner. He's got the hand. Yeah. He's doing the hand or I'm doing the mouth and then I'll just back up and then I'll start deejaying while he's just doing himself and he gets the hint that like I love that is so sad.

By the way, if you guys aren't familiar with musical terms, she means masturbating on her. Yes. Let's do the hands, guys. Show picture and she's not on the turntables. I would be honored. I would be on the turntables. I'd be like by now playlist for my. I love that. That's so hot, but that is so sexy that you're like blowing your partner and then you start masturbating. Like I'm going to masturbate to that when they finish the job.

Yeah. And you don't have to finish the job. You know, maybe there's something I don't know, I'm with you on that right now, like I love to see and love seeing a person who I'm attracted to masturbate as a homeless person.

I walk by masturbating, not the person listening to this being like, yeah, that's what she's into. It's not you.

Yeah, we're all set. Well, we wanted to wrap up with monogamy and tell you tell us your your marriage. But from what I know, you are you guys open or you are willing to be. So tell us about that and then you have a quiz that people can figure out if they actually prefer monogamy or not. We just want to get into this because we've always kind of wanted to tackle this like is monogamy. Dad question on this podcast and haven't really quite yet.

Yeah, people are like my closed down.

It's like, oh fuck someone else. So are you monogamous with your commitment style? I'm I have always been monogamous. I can't imagine a scenario where I would be non monogamous, but I think both of us are. We're open to other people's ideas and anybody there's no right or wrong way to have a relationship. So anything that challenges the traditional notions of what love has to look like, we're open to all of it. But personally, no, I've never had a non monogamous relationship.

Everybody I've ever been with fully well, you know, I was being monogamous, you know, they weren't. But yeah. So that's yeah. I want to take the quiz because I feel like I am monogamous, but I don't know that. I just I never say never. So I can't understand what it's like to be in a relationship for five, 10 years because I haven't, I haven't done it. So I feel like I am going to take the quiz.

You can tell us about it. But at this moment, I feel like that's what I want. But I could be wrong.

And that's a big part of what I you know, my my mantra of like communication has to be specific. It can't be vague. And I love what you just said to read. I like the more options that they are that there are, the better. And so we should really applaud any new language, a defined sex or connections or orientation or commitment as possible so that people lie to themselves less or try to force themselves in boxes they just simply don't fit into less.

And so the enemy of monogamy is infidelity. The enemy of monogamy is not consensual. Non monogamy, consensual. Non monogamy is a relief, I think, to monogamy. And it actually helps to uphold the sanctity of monogamy because people know they have no choice. I think for our parents generation, there was just like this one size fits all and we saw how that worked out in the divorce rates and we saw how that worked out in terms of people finding like really viable culpable partnerships.

They were capable of being successful then. And so I think that the more commitment styles that we have, the more words and language that we can use, the better we can communicate to our partners. Here's what works best for me. And then either one negotiate or to dissolve. If we realize that we have very different ways of expressing love and showing up in commitments. So me, myself and my husband began as, you know, fuck buddies and then we move to friends benefits.

And essentially what happened is that we were just enjoying the connection that we had so much as friends benefits. We had great sex and we loved being around each other. We ended up moving in together just because it was like a convenient thing. And I loved living with him. He's like the best roommate ever. And so at that point, we realized we had to come up with a title. And I think that's actually when relationships work out nicely rather than trying to move towards a title, you always assess where you're at right now and think of the word that best fits the description.

So we were like, OK, what we share right now is we can rely on each other. I'm there for you. You're here for me. You're my plus one when I want to go places. But I still like dating and I still like flirting and I love fucking you, but I like the option if I felt compelled to. Also too, I want the choice like I feel I felt really affirmed this relationship by the choice of my body.

I do what I want and also to I talk about this for a living. And so there's an element of like seductiveness that my career, you know, has to make it thrive and makes it fun for me to insert similarily my partner, you know, really was excited about our friends benefits relationship just because of the fact that their previous relationships was just so much like coveting and jealousy and et cetera. So open relationship is like that's the term for us.

And we really loved that term. And we like lived in that for a while. But what was the crux of our open relationship was choice, not necessarily action. So is the option to do it. So I think as time has gone on, we have not dated outside of our marriage yet. And so I think people get because language is important. So if I say I'm in an open marriage and then I also tell you I've never engaged with somebody, you're like, you fucking liar.

So we use the term right now called free relationship, which in essence means that we give ourselves space to like go between different commitment styles. So right now, maybe we're monogamous. Maybe in three months we're monogamous because he's going to strip clubs along the open back up or he's flirting online. He's Demming people. I don't know what he's doing, but like. Maybe in, you know, six months I meet someone that I think is really interesting or six years and I want to engage with that person and then open is a title we can switch to.

So free just essentially means that we reserve the right to change our commitment style and to change your mind. And that should not be a make or break in our relationship because we're both consenting to that.

Mm hmm. And could do a whole episode on this, just like so, you know, I'm so enthralled by it and it's not how I have ever operated. So it's intriguing to listen to. I want to ask your opinion about rules and boundaries, because I think that that's where, like all the gray area comes. Do I get to have sleepovers? Is it OK if I'm damning with somebody? Is it somebody that we know? Do I have to come up and tell my partner I did that?

And yes, obviously we talk about this for three hours, but at least maybe how did you come up with your boundaries for it? I mean, this is a great thing that you probably noticed in the kink community, right? Like the kink community, like anybody who's not vanilla. Right. And I consider that a consensual nominated to be a part of the non vanilla. I mean, not in as in like it's not what you see in the movies tradition.

There we go, bitch. Right. Better word. No one feels judged here.

So I was like out like, you know, the basic bitches, you know, I identify with that sometimes.

What ends up happening when we are like heterosexual and monogamous is that there is like all these conversations that we don't have because we assume that we all have the same information because so much dialogue is passed on. So many examples are portrayed of that. And then through that, you lose the individuality in the relationship. And so someone is going to be really cool about the kink community. They said in the kink community and specificity like everything is a no until you get a yes.

And in the vanilla community, which I'm also a part of, is everything is a yes until you get to know you keep pushing your partners until they're like this makes me uncomfortable. So I think that what happens at times in monogamy is the same thing of like, OK, there's an understanding that I can't have sex with other people because we don't break into our idea of our commitment. A lot of conversation, a lot of questions, a lot of clarity because we're on this assumed label.

I keep testing you until I get to know I signed to someone's DBMS. I make certain flirty comments like as opposed to sitting down and being like, I don't feel comfortable with this. I do feel comfortable with that. I don't like it when this happens. If you do go out with somebody, I want to don't ask, don't tell where I want to know everything. And so in non monogamy, like there's classes. And so I have a really great presentation.

So I'll share with you guys that breaks down all of the various terms and polyamory, like the ways that you can structure your relationship language, describe even like that. Don't ask, don't tell is like a form of consensual non monogamy. So I think that that like is actually a strength of it because there's less assumptions, because by virtue of the fact that it is more gray, there has to be more conversation to bring clarity. Yeah. And I mean, there's still a large majority, I guess, of people that.

Want or think that they want monogamy. Yes, so I have two monogamous yeah, there's there's traditional monogamy and there's modern monogamy. And so traditional monogamy is probably more of what your grandparents did. And many people still want traditional monogamy, which is one person for life. And then modern monogamy, which Esther Paral really talks about, is one person at a time. And so modern, monogamous, believes in divorce, modern monogamous believes in like serial dating, whereas in a traditional monogamist is like their goal is to find their singular person and be with that person and commit for life.

And even that as a difference of nuance is important to distinguish because that just tells you what somebody's stake is in the relationship and how they're going to operate should you come into conflict. But there's like nine different results you can get. And it's my most popular quiz that I've created. And even though because in a day, keep in mind, like, you know, I get freaky bage, I talk about sex and also to like, I promote consensual non monogamy.

So you would think that if anybody's results are going to mirror sort of that more open idea that everyone fears that people in L.A. all think about.

But even that regardless, 70 percent of the respondents on my quiz is wanted traditional or modern monogamy, modern monogamy being, you know, drastically ahead of traditional traditional still being in like second or third place, I believe. So that to say, I think a lot of people still do want that. It's very natural to want that as a desire. And so whenever people get really scared of nomine Agami or get really, like aggressive towards me because I'm not marrying that relationship style, I'm like, you need more people like me, like I'm helping you.

You know, I'm getting rid of all the assholes who could never stay in a relationship that long. I'm giving them other options so that they could be honest and be successful in a relationship style that they're actually equipped for. So I think if you're monogamous, do not feel like, oh, there's no one left and everyone's like going to hell and everyone wants multiple partners. A lot of people still just want to be with one person for the rest of their life.

And this might be a too personal feel for you not to answer it. But did you guys have any boundaries around you being pregnant? Like, was it like while I'm pregnant, we're monogamous or like, you know, post while we're like raising an infant?

I'm just worried because I feel like people are like, wait a minute, is she pregnant? You know? And she's done like, how does that look like?

I think my partner might get mad at me for saying this, but like I was saying, like early on in our connection, because my breasts got really big when I got pregnant.

And I think I wanted to show somebody that those two days around my period, I'm like, can someone look at these guys? They looked amazing.

And also to like because I'm his pregnant wife. And so there was still like a non sexualization there with the breasts. But I'm like, the world didn't know I was pregnant yet. And so if I would have just texted somebody, they would have been like, your breasts look incredible.

Yeah, it's a different reaction. Like, I got double boobs, OK?

I wanted to get near the place all first trimester. It's all I wanted to do because my first time being able to push them together and actually create something of substance. So I can't recommend it enough when you're blowing somebody and like as you go down, you're like rub your tits on their dick a little bit. I mean, I've boobs like I use these that yes, you have to. And that's the thing is like mine, I have a limited time, like it's it's going to run out the sales end zone.

So that's why I think I'd ask that.

And he was like, that's kind of weird. And I was like, I respect that. So I think it's just still an evolving conversation. If he came to me, we had that discussion. I'm in third trimester now and like, we haven't had sex in a long time. And I feel like we both don't really enjoy it that much because it's just it's very slow.

Like even for me, it's like turn over and it's like a three minute process. So if he came to I was like, are you bothered by, like, you know, how much things have dropped off? And then he was just like, not really. We're so busy right now. But if he came to me and said, like, this kind of bothering me and, you know, I have met somebody or whatever, I would be open to the dialogue.

OK, yeah.

OK, so so of all dialogues, I know I mean, I'd be open to I never know.

It's the thing is like I don't know how I'm going to react and I reserve the right to always, you know, the same with him. He I can say to him like, can I see somebody? And he's a very open person, very Nigella's. And he can think about it and be like, I don't know why, but that's weird. And I can be like, yeah, you're right. And that's OK. I love that too.

And you can always change your mind like you can. You can change your mind from week to week, like it's your relationship. It's supposed to evolve and change. And this isn't like but you said this six months ago. It's like I changed my mind. I don't know what to tell you. This is how I feel now. You know, we're always changing. And that's the point. No one going to be like you're a flip flopper. Yeah, I got new information, bitch.

Yeah, OK. I met someone else. Yeah. You're a hypocrite. No, I just. I'm evolving. Exactly. Well, I like this guy. Yeah. Thank you so much for for doing this. We know you're we don't have you for hours. Hours. We would love to talk to you forever.

I would love to be here for hours, maybe one day when we're in the same city. This can be a thing, you know, I don't want. Like, get too aggressive and forward with you, like I'm I'm happy to follow this. No, let's be good. And we know that everybody is going to be, like, dying to find all of your things. Where can people find the quizzes, where they can find your show? Your books will tell everybody everything to find you.

I'm going to say one word because I think that people just you know, that you're very busy. And my one wish is to go to Quebec and to watch sexology is over a hundred episodes there right now that you can watch everything that we've discussed today, there is going to be an episode on. We discovered, like everything from double penetration to like where you should pick the right first date for you based on your personality type two commitment styles to non monogamy, to also people who are asexual.

So there's a lot of topics there. And that probably is my greatest arsenal of information I can provide in bite size formats and could be you can actually get like a two week free trial and so you can binge all them for free. And if you want to stay on for more episodes because we make an episode every week, it's like forty nine per month.

So that's my one wish. I really love Quebec too, like I did. Yeah. It's get on it. It's so fun. So we can't recommend it enough to well tell people what your website is and your Instagram because I had fun on them and other people want to also.

Yes, I'm just Sân Booty Booty with a D which is a play off my last name, not my anatomy. I got the breast, not the ass for pregnancy sums to be honest.

All right. Awesome. Shannon, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Rayna, thanks. Thank you. All right, guys, we'll stick around. And we are going to be right back with your sex acts and we're back, OK? All right.

So I'm very excited about this. I feel very passionate about sex. It's important.

It is important. And I have advice about like when and where and like how to escalate it. But in in line with the theme of Shands episode, we asked you guys what your go to sex were to your partner or a new partner. OK, to be clear, we asked, what's your like first go to sex when you're trying to get someone into sex. Right. And some of you this can't be or first go to sex. I know some you probably just said your favorite sex, but like if some of you were setting this straight out of the gate, I mean, you know, respect.

But so I was writing this down this morning, a few just a few quick thoughts. First of all, I was just writing your guys the sex down, and I was getting so turned on, like I felt a little uncomfortable. I how horny I felt doing this in general. And then, yes, we asked for like initial sex and some of these were so wild. OK, let me just read you a couple of your initial warm up sex just to get some someone into it.

I want you to come inside of me. I want your babies. Just a picture of my wet fingers after I come on them, I want your hands around my throat while you pound me. It's simple, but it sets the tone. She says it's simple, but it sets the tone. I want you to choke me. I set the tone. I want you to gag me and then jerk off in my mouth, want to rearrange my guts and.

Finally, when I see you, I want you to throw me against a wall while I suck your cock till you come in my face. OK, so all of these are great. They just I wouldn't open with them. I would make sure you're in a really safe space with someone that you're dating and that you're having. So in general, my feeling about sexy pictures and sex is that you want to sort of build first of all, I feel like if you haven't had sex with the person, I'm not sending any of this stuff.

I think you've got to make a guy like chase you a little bit. And I see that from experience. I say that from sending the stuff a little too soon.

And I think that like the graphic next graphicness graphic, Nick, graphic, graphic nature, the graphic, I think we can escalate how graphic and stuff is. So I think we start with like stuff with some clothing. I sort have photos and suggestive sex and then we build and it's all about like wanting to like, you know, like make them work a little more for it. So you're constantly surprising them. And why would you blow your load for sex out of the gate?

Like if you're like come over and choke me and gag me and jerk off of my mouth and throw me against the wall, I'm going to suck your dick and then no one should come over my face. Like, what do you have to build up to? You can't you can't backtrack. You can't keep thinking about you this morning.

You can't go back there like I know, bitch. I just came on your face last night and come out of the gates. I would just I just like anything. I would make them work for a little bit and build towards. And then you're constantly shacking up with a filthy little slut. You are a ton of stuff about. I had a dream about you last night. I just like woke up from a really sexy dream. A ton of people saying, I'm thinking about blank thing that you did to me last night.

That is the most perfect. I think you suggested that. I just can't even just like I can't stop thinking about last night or even just like tame like in your language. Like, I can't stop thinking about how hot last night is. That's hot is an easy word. It's an easy starter word. Like I think that was probably that's probably my usual go to like I said, something about Hot Hot last night was or you can escalate that with like how hard I came, things like that.

But like the next day I just think like across the board get in that habit early. Yes.

And have to remember that like not everybody is comfortable doing the stuff and now guys are going to like know how to respond to like my pussy. So when I come inside of it, like I think you can also train them to build up to it. Like I dated somebody who refused to sex with me. You know, some people just suck. But I think that you can build towards it. Don't expect everybody to just initially pop off and have crazy stuff to say back to you.

And then one, I'll just start it off. This is actually something that is not a hot take. But I think I think I was talking to a guy guy friend about this. I think it was Andrew Callon of like, what did he hit your head anyway? Just if a guy asks you what you're doing or like always, not always, but like if it makes sense to say, I just got to the shower, like, I never really thought about this.

I'm sure I've said it, not meaning to, but I guess I never looked at it from a guy standpoint, like they always think of you naked and it's not necessarily a sex. And that's not going to turn anybody off at all. Like I would tell you, I just got a shower has a different that's why I'm saying like, yes is a great, easy way. Even even like before you have sex, like after like one date, but guys like.

So what are you up to. Like just got the shower like hit him with that and it doesn't have to escalate from there. It can just simply be the tone as I'm naked and wet. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I don't know if I can look you in the face while we do this. OK, I don't like the other direction.

I just put my hood up and so I'm going to run through a few. I'm laying in bed thinking of you. I just made myself comes forward thinking about your picture of me in a cleavage shirt saying I love my hair today, don't you? Which is the same as that socks thing we suggested. Anything that just, you know, is a silly thing that suggests nudity aspects usually do the job. Since I spent some extra time with my shower head thinking about you this morning, I want all of you in me now.

I like sending a pic of lingerie laid out on the bed and saying, Is my date outfit tonight OK for where we're going? We've a friend that did that and I was so impressed by the really sexy I'm so wet and you aren't here. Help me get through this before I fuck someone else. Maybe don't start with me. I don't know. I don't forget one wish you were here accompanied by a pic of me and bad white tank top, no bra, small panties.

I love that she laid out the outfit. In your mind, what am I wearing right now? Let them, you know, sort of lead the conversation like that. I'm feeling dehydrated and need you to give me your fluids. I was diagnosed with low vitamin D today and really need your help. Just send a photo of my panties on the floor. Literally has never failed. I love that. Never would have thought it.

I mean, it's got to look right. It can't be like a pair of your dirty underwear.

I would like cream cheese in the crotch just balled up in your thong and just like dragged it through a vat of pretty thick.

Yeah. So maybe like clean panties, panties, hanky panky. These are my favorite ones to do. So it's sort of lay them out there. I just feel like is there context here because I feel like a guy would be like what's.

What would you say? I would guess what I'm doing. Just took my panties off. Anything like that, give them a little bit of context, because I feel like a guy would be like, what is that? I would say. Guess what I'm doing right now? And for my last one, it made me laugh. What are you wearing, Jake? From State Farm khakis. OK, I'm going to come out hot with I want you to park that big Mack truck right in this little garage.

Any lyric from WOF just got new sheets. Want to come over and ruin them. OK, I'm voting for Biden and if that doesn't make you hard, then keep your calm. I don't want it in my mouth. Well, OK, don't start with that. Chris, let's play. This is cute. Let's play a game. Am I wearing panties today or not. Correct answer gets a prize. I'm naked in bed with pizza. Guess what toppings I got.

I want to come over and check out my ceiling. Like just like lay in bed. Like he's just lying on his back. In fact, looking at the ceiling. OK, I just feel like the fact that I was like, that's it. Guys aren't going to get that. Why. No, I like the USA out. OK, you figure that one. OK, a topless pic that says my shoulders were hot spots, titties were hot, I'm getting a manicure.

What color do you like wrapped around your dick? Ilovaisk.

That's the boyfriend text to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if he's, if he likes for jobs just do it with a pedicure. OK, my lower body undies legs pick with my cat and it says this pussy wants attention. That's pretty strong. I'm touching myself. I can't help but think how good you fucked me last night. I had the hottest dream about you last night and I wish it was real. This girl writes nothing. I just send them porn.

OK, here's just the link to support. No context, OK? The things I do to you, if you were here, I like that one. It's just simple. It does the trick. This was strong. Again, I wouldn't recommend for a first tax, but if you're, if you're down the road with somebody, come lick my neck, my back, my pussy and my crack. If they don't know that song reference, they're probably the right side up with probably the right age for me.

I'm going to suck your dick like I hate you right up. You know, you're going to use that. What I like to say.

I want to suck the come out of your comments. Right. That's again, not a first thing here is this one anal questionmark you up always strong because we know of it is like a sext. So I mean, I used to hit guys with you up at like 3:00 p.m. and see what happened.

And then the last one send me money. I just came up and makes me come. Venmo money, money, money, money, money, money, money.

But I think this is just like a great way to spice up any relationship. Let somebody know that you're thinking about them. I love to hit them with this during the work day or maybe while they're in church with their parents. Hundred percent or they're like sitting next to you. I like Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. Anything to make them uncomfortable and also horny. Yeah, but I love us. It's a great way to spice up your relationship. Yes.

And thank you guys for submitting your sex to us and we hope you enjoyed this episode. You guys know where to find us girls. Got it. Podcast Dotcom girls go to your podcast and Instagram Ash Access and Raina Greenberg on Instagram. Girls in her score. Got it on Twitter and YouTube. Dotcom girl's got to eat. Thanks guys. Have a good week by.