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Everyone, welcome back to you on purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.


Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, I'm really excited about this conversation today, and I think you're going to absolutely love it because you're going to get practical advice, deep insights and potentially even a bit of a spiritual awakening. I'm speaking today to Danica Patrick, a former racecar driver and the most successful woman in the history of the sport since her retirement in 2018. Danica has become a business owner, entrepreneur and an inspirational speaker.


She's launched her own clothing line, written a book and became an owner of a winery in Napa Valley. She's also the host of the podcast Pretty Intense, a podcast dedicated to helping people become their true best self. I had the pleasure of going on the podcast last year where we talked about my book, Think Like a Monk, and I've been looking forward to interviewing and reciprocating with Danica's love through this podcast. Danica, welcome to On Purpose.


Oh, man, it's my honor. I mean, it's through as through your podcast and a few other friends in which you know well that I've been inspired to do my own. So like minded missions.


Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's amazing how you can have such different journeys. But we all evolve to this similar values, similar mission, similar purpose. And I think that's what I love so much about getting to do. This is when I look at your journey, I'm like, wow, like after your incredible success and experiences.


And if this is what your journey is evolving to, you know, how lucky are we to connect the way? I wanted to start with, though, I saw a lot of posts and videos and things on your Instagram recently of you doing yoga and meditation. It's really interesting. And I know I've heard you talk about how nature has been such a big part of your spiritual journey. We hear a lot about the positives of nature. But for you specifically, how has nature been so deeply connected to your spiritual journey?


Such a great question and so powerful. I just say off the bat, quite simply with nature, I would challenge anyone to say any time they've gone in nature that they feel worse, like just starting they're like, have you ever gone to the beach? Have you ever walked in the woods? Have you ever gone for just walk outside in your neighborhood or wherever you live and been like, man, that was terrible. I hated that. It was horrible.


The trees were so ugly. I mean, you never do that. Even when you look at a dead tree, you're like, wow, it's winter. And look at that tree. Doesn't even care. It's dead. It's going to come back to life. Why can't I be more like a tree? So I think that's kind of the magic of nature, is that I don't I I believe that there's more of a frequency element to it that goes a little deeper, probably more scientific.


But but I think it's just that, you know, I feel like we want to be like nature subconsciously, like being able to lose our lives and not care, being able to die and be reborn, being able to grow freely, finding the light. I mean, look at trees and how they managed to weave their way on up to just find a little bit of light at the top. I mean, I feel like it's a big analogy for what we're all aspiring for.


So I think it's a little bit more science, scientific and subconscious. But then if we just look on the surface, I mean, for the most part, it's beautiful.


I love those examples already. They're absolutely beautiful. And you reminded me of two things as you were saying that in the Vedas that I studied, there's a beautiful section called the Twenty Four Gurus, and it looks at the twenty four gurus in nature. So it gives some of those examples where it looks at twenty four elements of nature, whether that's rivers, trees, animals, flowers, plants, and it shows how we can learn something from them. So you reminded me of that beautiful section and also what you were saying scientifically.


I remember reading about a term I believe it's called biomimicry, where you basically emulate nature in your life. So of what you were giving the example, an example I often give to people is like letting this sounds like a crazy thing. But I remember I would often not often I sometimes I would see shedded snake skins when I lived in India. And it would always be like we were told that letting go was like a skin. A snake sheds its skin like it's not this forced.


Like you'd have to break yourself. You just slither out of, you know what you don't want to be anymore. And so when you were saying the. Seeking the light, and it brought about so many beautiful visuals, I agree with you fully, I think the challenge you set us all today is beautiful. When have you been out in nature and not valued? And I was thinking I was trying to think of a time when I could advise and run to the point that I was thinking even visualisations when I lead visualization meditations, so many people that most relaxing visualization is in nature.


And and I think that's such a beautiful message that you're sharing with all of us. We often talk about this paradox of we're moving so fast in life that we miss these beautiful things. But the truth is, no one has actually experienced what it means to go as fast as you have. Very little. I mean, behind the behind the wheel, like you've actually lived life in a way where you are moving. I mean, how many miles per hour are you driving?


Yeah, over two hundred. Almost all the time. Right. OK, that just makes sense. Every time I think I'm cool on the highway I'm definitely not like two hundred miles per hour. That is insane. And you're driving with extreme control, of course, an extreme focus. But you think about that. Life's almost like we're driving two hundred miles per hour and we miss these beautiful things. Tell me about the paradox of having lived so much with machines for so long and now spending so much time in nature, was that different then or did you always value nature even then?


If I'm being honest, it was really because of so much exploration of nature and being in it more and doing more yoga, more meditation, more connection to myself spiritually on a deeper level, that I actually started to shift frequency wise energetically from the space that I was in. It no longer was really that comfortable for me anymore, and it wasn't necessarily just about driving the car. I think that's more of a dance that's artistic. It's different than than than what I'm talking about.


But unfortunately, it came in the package, which was I just like I stopped resonating with these sort of moods that I was experiencing around me. And then just the vibe, the sort of vibe that everyone had, there was like a cut throat, angry nature just through a rise in my own frequency of being in nature and doing more things that are in that sort of realm. I just wasn't as happy anymore. And so I didn't I in that last season of my career, I really like to call it like I let it go.


I was open to continuing on if something made sense and happened, but I wasn't forcing it and I wasn't running from it. I was just sort of in the middle in that neutral ground of allowing. And when it didn't come through, I let it go and I just thought, it's not for me anymore. So, yeah, nature was a real powerful thing.


That's amazing. I want to come back to letting it go, but let's dive into what you said, that you're talking about this spiritual journey and the depth. We hear that a lot for a lot of people. And I love asking people to define their own spiritual journey because I think it's so personal and so unique. And there are the practices which I want to dive into of yoga and meditation. But for you as a philosophy of your spiritual journey, like what does that mean to you?


How do you define that transition and that focus in your life? I feel like spirituality is one of those things in my life that I have actually not set a destination on almost everything in my life, I'm destination oriented. This is how it's going to turn out. This is where I'm going to live. This will be my life. This is my goal. It will do this. This is the success of it. This is what will mean success.


And in my spiritual journey, it's literally like next step. Next step. Next step. So in this quest of being, I've never really unpacked this verbally like this. So is a great question of being present. I'm actually present with being present that makes sense. Like I am allowing myself to just take next steps as they come and as they feel right. And not necessarily thinking about where I want to end up, which is kind of kind of surprising for me, actually.


Yeah, no, it's and it's often what deters people from spirituality because it's so much of a revelatory journey. I know that when when we were trained in the ashram, it was always said that a spiritual a spiritual journey is one that is received, not achieved, like we always hear that constantly to to help us move away from that achievement mentality. That is, that we can do something risky or not achieve. What does that mean? Explain that.


What what it means is that the spiritual journey is revealed to you. It's not something that you can say, I've got it now and I bottled it up and and here it is. I look at my metal, look at my trophy of I meditated for eighteen hours today. Look how great it was. It had to be revealed to you the answer to the next step and kind of what you're saying now when you're present with your step, it's revealed the next step is revealed to you, if that makes sense.


Yeah. That that's that that makes sense. Wow. Cool though.


You made me think of it in what you were saying of the idea of if you are truly present, it's almost like I mean, you're making me think about just ways of understanding it and explaining it. But it's almost like if you if you're trying to get across a river and there's lots of stones everywhere, it's like if you're present on this stone, you can then see the next one, then you know where you want to jump to next.


But if you're constantly looking at the other side, yeah, you may just fall into the river. Right. I think about two there's another analogy where you're driving. Let's say you're driving from one coast to the next. You can't see the other coast. You just follow those headlights, right? You just following the headlights. I mean, obviously, it's daytime sometimes, but you're following the headlights essentially, like showing you the next mile or the next half a mile or whatever.


And it's it's not that you can see it, but you just keep following the lights following the road. Yeah.


That that makes so much sense that that's a really good one. I really like that analogy. And how do you get comfortable with that uncertainty? Like how do you get comfortable with really, truly being present? Because like you said, in all areas of our life, we're all need the goal. We need to see the end we need. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but how do you get comfortable in that discomfort and that uncertainty and that lack of surety of where this is going?


I guess it's because, you know, I feel like this is an Abraham Hicks thing, like you can't get it wrong and you're never done. Like, I guess there's a thought in my head where I feel like I'm never going to know the answers to the universe anyway. So, like, I don't even it would be that that would be my answer if I had to set a destination would be like, oh, I'll I'll know everything there is to know.


Like, I'll know everything there is to know about the nature of reality, which relates to me as a human. But I know that we won't get to know like until we die. So I guess I don't even know what destination to set because I'm so used to setting the furthest one. So I guess since I don't even know what to set, I just keep taking the next step. Maybe maybe I need to use that in my professional and personal life to like I know how much better.


Good. Again, let's see.


You know, yeah. I think what you said was really interesting is you talked about how when the frequency of what you were experiencing in your career was no longer matching the frequency you were spiritually experiencing, that's when you kind of were able to let go. What do you think about for people who are almost maybe in a toxic work atmosphere or in a space where their career, where they don't have the opportunity, they haven't achieved that level of success, where they now can move on or try something new?


How have you thought about and I'm sure you had to do this, too. It's never perfect for anyone. It's like, how did you deal with the toxicity or the negativity while you had to before you could move on and let go? Because I think that's where most of us spend our lives, like most of us spend. Our lives where you have this energy and frequency around you and you somehow have to continue on every day, you have to wake up and go to work and switch on your Zemko.


I'm just thinking about the people in our audience. And and I'm sure you had that. You know, that that bridge period. Yeah.


Yeah. And this is so relatable and applicable and useful. And I'd say I the first thing that I think about, like for myself, I'm a dreamer. So for me, this this is natural. It's natural for me to think what's next, because, again, I'm a future castra forward thinker. Right. So I would say that it's thinking about what it is that you actually want for your life. I feel like I should go back backwards and say, if this is your situation, you get so uncomfortable you really don't want to be there anyway.


And so you by nature, might even start to be seeking out other ways to exist, other ways to make money, whatever, whatever it's going to take for you to get out of your situation. But but I would say, like a tangible thing that you could do would be to just start instead of focusing again back to perception, because perception is reality. If we stop, if you would stop. If I stop, you stop. We stop thinking about the aspects about what we're doing that we don't like by nature, then getting more of it and we start thinking about what it is that we want and envisioning that, dreaming about that, embodying that, visualizing yourself in that life.


I trust the universe enough to know that I can't help but get it. Yeah, I can relate to that advice. I think that's good advice. It's it's it's hard when you're in the moment. But but it's good advice because I remember spending a few years in the corporate world in between Monck life and what I do now. And and it's like I didn't really fit in or I didn't necessarily love everything I had to do every day. But I was able to use the parts of that job that did make me feel alive and just amplify them as much as I could.


And I I think I'm learning about technology and I'm learning about this and I'm learning about connecting with people and whatever it was. And it was just when that's when you when you put your vision and your perception onto those things, all of a sudden even something really meaningless can start to feel meaningful because you've started to notice the meaning in it. And I think we just live in a world where we think of it as like this is meaningless and this is meaningful.


But even I'm sure you could say this, that even on this side of doing things that are more spiritual or meaningful or fulfilling, there's still plenty parts of our lives that we have to do stuff we don't love.


Yeah, absolutely.


And it makes me think of two of you know, it's another thing, Abraham, I listen to a lot of Abraham, too. But another thing that comes to mind is contrast and how grateful we should be for contrast, because it's in the contrast that it shows us when we show it, when it shows us what we don't want, we know what we do want.


And so, you know, just because something and it also it also allows you an opportunity to shift your mindset to gratitude and go, this isn't fun, but I'm so glad I get to go on this vacation or whatever it is that comes as a result of it, because to think, like you said, that life is just, you know, this easy, breezy, flowing extension of vacation after vacation, after joyful experience, after joyful experience, like it's not realistic.


And sometimes we have to do things that we don't really want to do. But when we focus on why we're doing it, it gives it more meaning. My wife and I have always been curious about our family history. We wanted to know more about our ancestors and their stories, so we decided the easiest way to get started was with ancestry and ancestry. DNA test tells you exactly where your ancestors are from. It can reveal ethnic origins and provide historical details that bring unique family stories to life.


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Go to blue now dotcom today. Yeah, absolutely. Tell us a bit about the practical daily spiritual journey that you're on. You you mentioned yoga and meditation we've seen on Instagram. Tell us about that morning routine of yours or your daily routine that giving you that trust, that confidence. Because I often feel like. That that trust, as you said, trusting the universe, that trust doesn't come from just a feeling or a belief, it comes from a set of practices, in my experience, of when you know you're doing something to have that relationship of trust because it's a relationship and a real relationship requires investment.


So what are some of the investments you're making every morning, every day that you feel are giving you that sense of some sense of structure and growth?


Will you have to find a way to get sort of quiet enough? Present enough to notice the signs and synchronicities and feelings of not only yourself, but other people in your environment to navigate accurately where you're going, I think to get more out of the head and into the body of of of truly what sort of like the universe guiding you through messages through those people or synchronicities. But I would say one of my first practices of first morning practices I changed this was.


This was, I think, fall of 18, so it was a long time ago, I stopped watching the news. And I think that was one of the first most productive things, so it wasn't something I actually did, it was something that I didn't do anymore. So I had to wake up in the morning.


I watch, like, Good Morning America or CNN or The Today Show or whatever. I'd watch. I just that was my comfort zone. It was like a familiar pattern, familiar sound in the morning. And I just drink my coffee and make my breakfast. And then as soon as I stopped doing that, and this is something that everyone should know is that any time you want to change a pattern, there will always be discomfort. So I remember like and it's not to, like, revert back because that's the easy thing to do, but it's to try and figure out something to do, like maybe it triggers something else that you do.


So what I started doing is I started watching YouTube videos and like watching you on YouTube or watching our buddy Lewis on YouTube or Abraham Hicks on YouTube or whatever it was, I'd start watching YouTube videos. And and that was what really kind of like gave me a new morning routine. In fact, I think I just posted about it the other day. It was like, so this is my morning news. And it was like breakfast with, like a swan video or something.


And so that's that's like that became the norm years ago.


I love that. That is such a big one. I love that. That's so awesome. Like Choose Your News, you know, like choose your news rather than like you said, you had to disrupt that pattern. And and that's the hardest thing to do.


And you're so right. The morning pattern in the morning mood is is everything like it's everything. And I think we just start in the negatives and then spend the whole day trying to climb up. To the positive, as opposed to like starting in a strong place and then kind of being broken down throughout the day, which is which is better than feeling like you're trying to play catch up all day.


It's like it's like school. You know, when you start off with an F, you might still end up with a B at the end of it. But that first quarter, all you're doing is playing catch up and you feel like you're never going to get there. But you start off with a knee and you end up with, you know, I mean, it just seems so much easier to keep your grades up like. And trust me, I'm really scrapping for history here because I'm in school since I was 16.


But, you know, it's like that whole thing of just playing catch up or for me and my racing career, it was it felt like if you could start off in the championship in a really strong way in the first sort of five races or so, it felt like you were always ahead of the game instead of playing catch up from a couple of DNF to start the season off. So it's the same thing, you know, micro macro with your day itself in the twenty four hours that you have.


So now I'd say in the last like sort of eight months, I've become much more regular with the routine of waking up in the morning and rolling over. And it started when I lived in Indiana for the summer with my parents and I have meditation pillows and so I just like threw it down on the ground and it wasn't a big bedroom I was staying in. And so there wasn't a lot of space. I just threw it next to the bed and I end up realizing, oh, that's perfect.


Like you get up and you just go sit down, like that's the right spot to put it. So then when I moved back to Arizona and got my house and filled my, you know, my meditation spot like it was, it's just right next to the bed. And so I get up and I sit down and I meditate. And then sometimes I journal. Sometimes I pull cards like I burn things, whether it be Pollos Santo or certain incense, as we talked about in our interview, like what was it?


Sound site said, what was it again?


Site sense and sounds. Yes. Yes. So setting that up and and then sometimes, like this morning, I did yoga afterwards, but sometimes it's just going to the kitchen and having coffee. I really I for a little while I was going to the kitchen and having coffee and then coming back and I'm like, no, no, no. I took like the body under control. And I went, I know you want to automatically walk to that kitchen and get the coffee that you want to have, but like take control of that and say, I am.


And it is my decision what I do with the body. And it's going to sit down and it's going to meditate. Now, the one thing that I'm trying to do and this is like I was just thinking about this the other day, and it's funny, I was about to go to bed and I was starting to do what I wanted to do. And I was like, wait a second. My mom hasn't texted me back today. And I left her a pretty good message like I thought she had responded.


I better not. This is what I want to do, turn my life, either leave my phone in the kitchen so that I don't go to bed and wake up looking at messages. For some reason, I have a default to, like, look at my messages like first thing and it's my alarm if I need an alarm. So I'm like, I need to get one of those old school clocks and I need to leave my phone in the kitchen or because I also think of EMF like radiation like signals.


So I think so then I'm at a minimum, I can at least turn my phone on off of Wi-Fi and on to airplane mode next to me. And then not so I won't actually have nothing will have come through in the night anyway. And then once I'm ready, I can still use it as an alarm. But then when I'm ready, I can turn on all my systems and go. But that's what I need to do next.


But it was like the other night, like the ego is like your mom might not be okay and I didn't do it.


I remember when I first trained myself to not look at my phone first in the morning. I used to lock my devices in my car outside so I would lock my laptop, my phone, like all my devices outdoors so that I couldn't even, like, get up and go and grab it from the other room because I knew that it was too hard, because you're right, it was so hard wired. And I started waking up to a Post-it note that says, I am aware this or I'm the sole or some sort of spiritual affirmation that that resonates with me.


And it would be in my handwriting. It's on a little Post-it notes next to my desk. And then now I've started to change that sometimes for a little quote that I read in the morning, or there's like just a highlighted line in a book. And I feel like when you start off that way, you stop your mind starting with anxieties. Like, I get anxious, I get worried. I, you know, I, I can wake up feeling, you know, misaligned.


And that changes as soon as the first thought you can assume from the external world is a thought that is aligned and a thought that is powerful and whether it's from someone's favorite book or even from someone's favorite podcast. And I love that idea that you sharing on helping yourself. To stop, you know, to stop looking at your phone first thing in the morning, and I love the idea of the meditation pillow right there, I think that's that's brilliant.


It's a it's a visual reminder. And I think we need these visual triggers and reminders to not have to make every decision in our head, make it as easy as we can make it. Right. Yeah. Not put it in another room where you're like, oh, I haven't been in my meditation room in a while like that. So it's definitely like as every time I walk by to go to my bed, I have to walk by my table and walk by by the pillow, walk by my rug, walk by everything.


I've put a lot of intention into setting up so that the space is ready and to make it beautiful too. I'd say that too. Like, you know, if you want to create a practice, like, why wouldn't you decorate it? Why wouldn't you make it beautiful? Why wouldn't you make it invite? And why wouldn't you put a beautiful rug down? Why wouldn't you have a pillow? You know, it doesn't have to be like something that you have to endure, like enjoy it.


I mean, my take my meditation table, my altar has pictures of my family, pictures of my dogs. It has crystals and certain significant things that I've picked up along the way. It has a Mawla that I do mantra's to or it has the pendulum that I'll ask questions to. It has decks of cards that I can pull from. It has books. It has journals like it's beautiful.


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Better help dot com forward slash purpose visit, better help dot com forward slash purpose and join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced and better help professional. Yeah, oh, I love that I had no idea. I love hearing about your old, so that's beautiful. It sounded. I'm going to backtrack a little. You reminded me when you say you're walking past the pillow, it reminded me of like a mindful walk of shame.


It's like you're walking past this this beautiful space to be mindful and you're like, feel the positive guilt of I should use this phrase, oh, now I want to talk about your alter. That sounds so amazing. I, I think the idea of having an alter. So I grew up with an alter in my home and my parents grew up Hindu and so having it out has been a very normal part of my life and having debts and having Christo's and Malas and everything you are saying like and books were very normal in my house.


And then even now my wife and I have our old in our home here and we've placed our altar in our meditation. Space is the heart of our house.


So whenever anyone comes to our home, it's the first place you see everyone walks through it. It's it's the first place I see after I wake up and come upstairs. I love the idea of setting up an altar.


If someone doesn't know what that is or if someone's more new to that concept, why has it been helpful and how did you even discover that? Was that common in your home or background or something you're aware of?


No, this actually started back in North Carolina. When I lived there. I lived there for five years and for a while I was picking up things at antique stores and it was like this little cart thing. And then it just sort of like migrated into being a meditation table. And I had, you know, my eye pillow. I had like lavender spray. And I had all kinds of little things on this table. And I was like, wow.


And back in those days, if I would be sitting there meditating, I would have been called weird. So I didn't do it as much. But I had like a meditation table and I would do it sometimes when I was alone. But it was also originally really just a place to put a lot of really meaningful things to me. And I think if I'm pulling from like where I grew up and culture, it's like almost feels blasphemous to say you have an altar, right?


Yeah, that yeah. That. I was wondering if that was the case. Yeah.


And I and since I didn't grow up in church and in fact my mom said not long, like a year or so ago, she was like, I'm sorry I didn't take you guys to church. That's okay. And not because there's anything wrong with it just because it kept my scope really open. And also I don't have those really negative attachments of sort of it being blasphemous or wrong. And it's the intention that matters. That's what I focus on.


So this intention of of a space that's really dedicated to to loving not only myself but loving people in my life. So that's kind of how it started. But I would guess that's what holds a lot of people back from creating what they would call an altar. You probably even heard me call it like a meditation table or just because it's Lingoa. That's not. Yes, it's just like a little more a little more inappropriate. I do the same.


I can relate to that. I do the same all the time. I'll say my meditation space or whatever. And it's.


Yeah, it's just because you don't want to you don't want to alienate what is the definition of altor. I don't know about the English dictionary definition, but I know about the definition of from from my spiritual Vedic place. It would be that this is considered the the temple within your home. So and what is a temple? That temple is a place that reminds you of your eternal connection with higher energy, the divine, the source. So a place that is of spiritual memory would be considered the definition of, you know, having a temple in your home, a place that reminds you of who you are, what you believe in and what you really care about.


I went to I've gone to all kinds of churches in my life. I became a Catholic at one point in my life and went to that church and then I went to Baptist church. And then I didn't go to any church and I started off going to church. But I remember what I always used to be able to say. I could be just as spiritual, just as religious at home. And it it doesn't take this building to make it happen.


And in fact, if I don't show up here and get a message, what's the point? That's blasphemous, right? So, yeah, I encourage everyone to have their own altar. It helps kind of add to this sort of idea of, like, make the space beautiful. If you had a spot that was filled with things that made you smile, wouldn't you want to go there?


Exactly. And we don't have that. We don't have that. I think that's a great, great tip and great insight. And I don't think we've ever shared that message on the podcast before. I think it's a really, really great idea. And I loved how you described it, a place that makes you smile, dedicate your career, though. It's obviously you've had to be an extremely disciplined, focused in. A vigil to achieve what you've achieved, it doesn't come through anything but that hard work.


Tell us about the idea of building a habit because you had to build habits to become a successful racecar driver. You've now built different habits to focus on your spiritual journey.


If someone's listening and watching and going, how do I build better habits? Like I just I can't get myself. Even if I build this beautiful decorated room and I put the pillow down, but I just walk past it and now I feel guilty that I don't meditate. And I keep hearing everyone tells me to do yoga and meditation. But I you know, and some I'm sure you meet people who say this to you all the time, like where does someone start with habit formation from your experience of building habits?


Well, first off, I think it's very difficult to just say everyone should X, Y, Z, because it might not really be for you. I think there are so many different mindful modalities of life. And I know that I don't do all of them. I do some of them. So I think the important part is figuring out which of those some really are for you and easy for you. Like, it doesn't have to be hard. You know, maybe for someone it's getting up in the morning and writing five things that they're really grateful for and that feels easy for them.


It's not something I do, but that is a practice of mindfulness, of gratitude, of spirituality, of getting in the right mindset. So for me, I think that it's more a matter of like testing the waters of a bunch of different things that you can do that make you feel good. And and so that's really just comes through testing. It just comes through testing. Some people, you know, some people are going to love meditation. Some people are going to really love yoga.


Some people are really going to love a walk with their dog. Some people there's so many different ways to connect with yourself to create practices and habits. And so I guess maybe not thinking about and not thinking about habits as being like all these are the ones that you have to subscribe to go with, the ones that feel natural to you, like go with the ones that feel good, like I love to work out. Guess what is a habit?


You know, if I hated to workout, I'd probably try and choose a different sort of form of moving my body other than going in a gym and throwing some weights around. So and I think I think that's really about following what it is that it feels like is natural for you.


And then it always ends up at a deeper level. I mean, we treat others as we treat ourselves. So if you feel like you're worth the time to have a habit, like, then you tend to respect others that do, too. So it always just starts with yourself. It starts with the self-worth enough that you deserve the time to take an hour to go workout or take a half an hour to go meditate or take an hour and a half to go to a yoga class like it starts with believing that you deserve it.


And then also you're why like, why are you doing it? Are you doing it because you have to are you doing it because you are being jilted? Are you doing it because someone told you this is what's going to be good for you. Are you doing it because you want to feel good? Are you doing it because it does feel good? Are you doing it because you enjoy the place that you arrive that when you're done doing it, find your way?


I think there's a great piece of advice. I I've been going on about this on the podcast. It's been real for me. And it's what you're saying definitely aligned. So I've never enjoyed going to the gym or working out, but I've always enjoyed sports. So I love sports, extremely athletic, enjoy competition like fun competition and back and forth. And during the pandemic and since I've really moved to the U.S., I used to play football, soccer twice, twice a week in London because all my friends play and that's where I grew up.


And we'd play after work in the evenings. And then when I moved to the United States for the first two years, I lived in New York and I was very busy with my career. I didn't really make that much time for it. And then when I moved to L.A., I realized that getting twenty two people to play a game of football was pretty difficult. Any weekend like that's pretty tough to do. And I recently took up tennis and I'm not good at tennis.


I haven't played tennis historically, but I'm absolutely in love with it because it's playful, it's fun. I run and sweat more than I ever would if I went to the gym and I was on a treadmill. And I feel like I start my day just with this like, child like and dualism because it reminds me of being at school or, you know, that kind of feeling of like I just played a game of tennis at the beginning of the day.


And I do that every day. I do that about three or four mornings a week. Now, not only am I getting better at tennis, but the idea of what you're saying is like you've got to have fun with it. And my wife for exercising has always been to stay healthy and to never let my bad health be my own, cause like that's always been a very clear thing for me, is like if something's gonna happen to me, if it comes from the outside, that's fine.


I don't want to be the one creating it for myself because of my negligence or whatever it may be. And, you know, but the wife for me of going to the gym or like that feeling just never work for me because I've never really been into, like, oh, look at my muscles. That's not been my why. But for me, the idea of feeling happy every morning, like you said, feeling good. You know, it's a huge one.


So, yeah, I encourage everyone because for ages I didn't feel like I enjoyed working out. I kept questioning what I was going to do to stay fit. And then when you find it's like, oh, this is so obvious. But it's been life changing and it's so important.


It's and there's so much there's look, there's something for everybody out there. So just because you don't fit into one box that somebody is talking about doesn't mean that you can't do it, you know? Yeah. Yeah.


I heard you say something on a podcast with good mutual friend Rachel Hollis, I believe. And and and it really stuck with me. I think it's a really powerful statement. And and it's it's not counterintuitive to what we said. It's it's complementary, but it's also exposing a different truth. And you said that I've never experienced growth without pain. And and, you know, and I think that that's so true as well, that, you know, we don't always experience that.


Tell me about where in your life have you felt that that's just been so true and and something where you've got more used to that as well?


I mean, it's happened a lot, especially in the last four or five years. And it comes in the form of jobs, changing relationships, changing friends, changing. It's the whole your new life is going to cost your old one saying it's. It's and that's hard or not, I don't think we're actually all that sad about where we're going, because the idea is that you're improving and you're expanding.


But there is an aspect of you that has to let someone else die. And deaths are always sad. So the idea that you'll never see someone again, never live here again, never go to this job again, never park in that spot again. There's the nevers are the things that have to we have to sort of die to that and die to the dream. It's one that has to go away, that you have to allow that that dream to die.


And I think that's also a really painful thing. However, you know, on the other side of it, you know, and this is why when big things happen and the growing pains happen, you come out the other side and you're like, oh, that wasn't that bad, you know, because you're ending up somewhere better, ideally.


So I guess for me, it's come in the form of true emotional breakdowns, like I mean, just like where I, like, get it resonating in my body. I can feel it. I can feel it in like I always get a lot of action in my solar plexus, sometimes in my heart, but definitely my solar plexus. Sometimes I have this horrible thing where I feel it in my body before I know it in my mind. So that's a real bummer.


I'm like, wait, what's going on with that? Why don't I feel I can't? I ate a strawberry and I feel like I'm going to buckle over. That's not right.


Like, you know, my body's like Nurnberger and then, you know, it's sort of followed within the next day is by something that is emotional and a breakdown of some sort. And all of a sudden there's usually like a big flood of information that comes through. But, yeah, it's it's it's that pain or even on a smaller level, explaining me, not watching the news anymore. Right. So I wake up in the morning and it's well, it's not maybe painful and I don't have some sort of physical reaction going on, but I kind of have a little bit of a mental one or, you know, a little bit of an emotional one where I'm thinking, well, I want to watch TV.


And it's like, no, this shift is going to be uncomfortable. And so it falls. It's a scale, you know, there's you know, it's happened in all facets of my life. And, you know, I also describe it like, you know, with with messages that come through to us is the universe comes knocking for what is it? What we resist persists. So, you know, it's like it's knocking on the door and then it's like pounding on the door and then it breaks the door down and then it comes in.


It can't find you and it burns your house down because you're somewhere in there and that shadow is hiding somewhere. I've experienced that.


I know what that feels like. Yeah, definitely. Where have you become more comfortable with letting go? Like I loved what you explained about the I won't be able to park at that spot again. I'll go to that job again. I won't see that person again. Like, I think that was such a when you were repeating those things, I was like, yeah, those are the things we really worry about. Like that's what we're holding onto.


It's that repetition. It's that security. It's that comfort. It's that consistency. That's what you're losing. How have you become better if you have or how have you become better at processing, letting any of those things go in a way that you think our listeners could today maybe learn, apply, take a few of those things, because I think I mean, letting go is probably the hardest human emotion of anything of any of the things you have to let go because we get so intimately connected with something.


Yeah, um. It's the familiarity of the discomfort, and this is where you start to learn that all these silly sayings are true. It's like finding comfort in the discomfort and and the comfort is just just really just familiarity. You're like, oh, got it. I've been here before. I know how this goes. And you you can sort of lessen the blow by surrendering a little bit more to it because it's in the resisting, in the gripping that your house has to get burned down.


So just don't let it get to that point where you can just go, OK, not for me. And that comes with like going all the way back to the beginning of the conversation about getting quiet enough that you can start to feel and notice the signs and some synchronicities and like the doors that are opening and closing for you instead of being so, like, attached to this idea of how things are supposed to go. I also think I have a little bit of an easier time because I'm I'm a future thinker instead of a past thinker.


So I think it is burden on those who are really like symptoms of that would be someone who's, like, really nostalgic, someone who has a hard time forgiving. But if you keep thinking thoughts of the past, they start they can only be created in the future. And so, you know, you've got to you've just got to learn to let go of them. I mean, look, a future Casser has their own issues to deal with destination's syndrome.


But I think like everyone else, when something comes you like, you know, and then I'm like, but what if it's better than I could ever imagine? Yeah. And I, like, tricked myself into thinking I but what if it's going to be better and the idea is that it should be.


Yes. It's more universal. You you've got to make space in your world. You got to make space in your in your emotions and your perception because your perception becomes reality. So, you know, there's a letting go. It's like when I retired, I looked at it like a letting go, not quitting. And so learn the difference between letting go and quitting because there's a really it's a nuance difference. And to me, it came at the end of my career.


That's what I had to realize, was that, you know, I'd never had a problem with a sponsor before. And they they left at the beginning of the year. I had all these other projects going on that I had never had going on. All these other businesses starting a sponsor wasn't coming along. And so I'm looking at like all these things are happening and I'm I'm like, you know what? And I'm not that happy when I go to the track.


And I'm like, mm mm. I'm going to look at all these signs and signs and synchronicities and symptoms and and just this is letting go. This is not for me anymore. But we become so identified, you know, of course, like we become and that's why it's so important to nurture other aspects of yourself. Diversify. It's like a portfolio for anyone who invests or has an investor, you know, look at yourself like a portfolio. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.


Don't be all all in stocks and not in bonds or whatever. Whatever your financial advisor does, it's all about like diversifying so that you have stability, because then no matter what happens, one aspect drops out and you have other to support, others to support you.


Mhm. Great insight. I absolutely couldn't agree more with you on that. I think the idea of creating space to, to really let go and to realize that you can't change the direction you want to go in if you are still holding on tight to something that's being taken away from your grasp anyway. And often that's what creates more friction and more tension is when you're desperately holding on to something that doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, and you're so right about it being we always we always ask the question like, what if something goes bad?


And like your idea of like, well, what if there is an opportunity here for the best thing ever? So I mean, this has been amazing that I've been so grateful for your time. We end every on purpose episode with the final five. So this is one word or one sentence maximum. So this is your final five. Are you ready?


Yeah. OK, so the first question is, what's the best advice you've ever received? Have fun. Oh, nice. OK, what's one piece of advice you wish people would stop giving? I'm so guilty of opinions, you should wait for someone to ask for them, I'm literally practicing this in my life. I'm like only an opinion when someone asks for it. I couldn't agree more.


All right. Question number three, what's the biggest lesson you learned in the last 12 months that I was supposed to be choosing myself all along?


Like my relationships were all about like this is how it's going to go and they're not choosing me. And then I'm like, oh, God, that's because I was supposed to be choosing myself. Thanks, Mira. Thanks. Great being here. Love you. Hate you. Love you. So, yeah, it's like when we when we treat ourself a certain way, that's how we teach others to treat us. And so, you know, I, I didn't choose myself all the time and didn't prioritize myself enough in certain aspects.


So yeah. That's, that was the last. That was the lesson. Yeah, what's what's a skill or a habit or a mindset that you've learned now that you think would have helped you as a racecar driver? More telepathy. You know, I think that I probably still didn't visualize enough visualization is so helpful. I mean, shoot, they've proven that you can literally increase your muscle mass with your mind. Yeah. So I guess I would have done more visualization.


I remember doing it when I was a kid and go karting and I did it like I'd visualize a perfect lap before qualifying. But I'm saying, like, you know, I did like I said, and go karting, I'm sitting there like, I don't even know what this is, but I'm like visualizing my perfect lap, executing it. But there's always more of that, right? If a little is good, a lot is better. Yeah.


So absolutely. I could have visualized more perfect passing, more perfect laps, more perfect finishes, visualizing myself, winning. I think I could have done more. I love that. That's great advice, thank you for that. And fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I say this hesitantly. It's because I think that it always comes out anyway, and if it was already put out on the front end, it would reduce a lot of confusion.


However, it would be a different world, but it's something I see every day, and that's just truth. I'm such a truth seeker and I feel like it always comes out anyway, and if you can't understand what's going on is because you don't have enough information, because there's not enough truth included. And so I think that I just would say that everyone would have to be truthful. I mean, I'd also like to caveat that with kindness. But, you know, sometimes the truth hurts, too.


That's great. Thank you so much, Danica. That's been an amazing time spending with you. Everyone go and subscribe to Danica's podcast, pretty intense. And you can order a book by the same title. And Danica, again, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and energy with us that I can't believe we still haven't met.


So I'm looking forward to that day when we can be in the same room together and share some energy and share more of these great insights. I really wish I would do that. I would just love that I'm so it makes me sad that we couldn't do this in person. But I know that day will come and it might not be in the form of podcast.


And maybe that's the luck, is that maybe if we just let go of this idea that it was supposed to happen for the interview and now we get to go have lunch or dinner and meet your wife and maybe, maybe, maybe it's going to come in a whole different, more expansive form.


Awesome. Danica, thank you so much. Again, this is so much fun. And I look forward to seeing you soon. Yeah, I hope so.