Does your brain keep you up at bedtime? I'm Katherine Nicolai, and my podcast, Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to help you sleep, has helped millions of people to get consistent deep sleep. My stories are family-friendly. They celebrate everyday pleasures and train you over time to fall asleep faster with less waking in the night. Start sleeping better tonight. Listen to Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to help you sleep with Katherine Nicolai on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The One You Feed explores how to build a fulfilling life amidst the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there. And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this. Radhe and I poured our hearts into creating Juni sparkling tea with adaptogens for you because we believe in nurturing your body and with every sip, you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality, and a burst of brightness to your day. Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life. Our Super Five blend of these powerful ingredients include green tea, of ashtaganda, acarola, cherry, and lion's main mushroom. And these may help boost your metabolism, give you a natural kick of caffeine, combat stress, pack your body with antioxidants, and stimulate brain function. Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only five calories per can. We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink. So visit drinkjuny. Com today to elevate your wellness journey and use code on purpose to receive 15 % off your first order.

That's drinkjuni. Com, and make sure you use the code on purpose.

I grew up in a world where it's so competitive. Even if I'm not the most talented, I'm the hardest worker. Until you're burnt out and you don't have anything else to give, and then what? Look, I'm.

Trying to talk to you about a job opportunity.

Do I look unemployed to you? You are emerging in Hollywood in such a real way.

Give it up for La La, Anthony.

When my whole marriage came crumbling down and I was in that bed, I was there by myself. Nobody gets married and says I'm getting divorced. You get married because you feel like you found your person and this is what the rest of your life is going to be like. What can I do? I have to adjust.

Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

The bestselling author and host. The number one.

Health and.

Wellness.

Podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for trusting me with your ears and eyes and for spending your valuable time here to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest is someone that we've had on the show before, but she came on the show so early on as an avid supporter, someone who is cheering me on. I was so grateful to have that conversation. Clips of it have gone viral over the years again and again and again, and I'm so grateful that I get to sit down again with her right now in New York City. Lala is an actress, producer, New York Times bestselling author and entrepreneur. Lala is best known for her role on the hit show Power, which wrapped its sixth and final season on Stars in 2020. Lala joined the cast of Showtimes The shy in 2020 and later received an NAA CP Image Award nomination in the Outstanding guest Performance category in 2022. Lala has teamed up with Issa Ray to executive produce the forthcoming horror comedy for Universal Pictures, JuJu. Please welcome to the show, Lala. Lala, thank you so much for doing this.

Honestly. I will always show up for you.

You literally like you came on the show when I don't even know anyone knew what the show was. I think we just connected online and we started messaging. I was so grateful when you came on. Since then, we've stayed in touch. Yeah, we've.

Always stayed in touch. Thank you. I always say you're my friend and someone I could depend on. You always say the right things. You just said something to me right now. I was like, I needed to hear that. I needed to hear that. Today has been sometimes one of those days, and I was like, I needed that. You always know exactly what to say.

You're very sweet, and I appreciate that. Let's start there, actually. One thing I've been encouraging my friends to do, people that I love, people I care about, is reflecting on difficult things they've got through, difficult things they've broken through. Because I think often we do a lot of difficult things. And I realize this through my mom, actually. So my mom is a superwoman. She has done so many difficult things in her life, but she sees them as normal. So she never stops to think, Oh, I'm powerful and I'm strong.

It's just a part of life.

Just a part of life. So what's something difficult or hard that you've done in the last 12 months or recently that you want to take a moment to just honor your sofa?

That is so nice. I should honor myself. I think learning that healing is messy, that's something that I'm dealing with. It comes and goes. It's not always there. But understanding that there's no time limit on healing and giving myself credit for healing and going through everything that I've been through and learning that I don't always have to act like everything's okay. If it's not, I have a tendency to do that. It's one thing to not let people see you sweat, which I do understand that, and you don't need to put all your business on social media or whatever, but it's okay to feel things and understand that healing is messy. My mom sent me something recently that was like, Be kind to yourself. Give yourself grace because healing is messy. As soon as you think like, Oh, I'm done with that. I'm over that, all of a sudden it's like, Well, why is it still making me feel like that? Or you're here to hear something or see something and like, Why am I still a little bothered by that? I hear you talk about this. There's no time frame like, Okay, once it's been two months, you're done with whatever the difficult thing was.

You shouldn't even be thinking about it anymore. It could be years and something could still pop up and trigger you or whatever and being kind to yourself during those periods. I want to honor myself for just finally understanding healing is messy and not being so hard on myself on certain things to not say, You should have been done with that already. Or, Are you still thinking about that? Or, Why did that still bother you? It's life. We're human. We have feelings. Things happen.

As you said when you walked in, life is lifing.

Life is lifing. Life is lifing. There's so many blessings in this beautiful life, and I'm blessed to have the life that I have. I'm constantly thanking God for this beautiful life. Sometimes you feel ungrateful or like, What do you have to complain about? You have a beautiful life, you're doing well, might not have some of the financial troubles or issues that a lot of people are going through that I have had before in my life, but it doesn't shield you from feelings and going through things. I think a lot of time people confuse that.

Yeah, I think different platforms and different levels have different problems, and they keep changing.

Definitely.

The problems you have today weren't the problems you had then, and the problems you had then are not problems you have today. I feel like healing is an interesting word because everyone's looking at what happens on the outside. But what do you think you're trying to heal on the inside? What have you discovered about what you are trying to heal?

I think on the inside, I'm just trying to heal a person who probably has dealt with feelings of abandonment, a person who has dealt with feelings of not feeling good enough, or definitely always having the questions of, Why me? Why did this have to happen to me? Why me? Why did I have to go through this? I give so much good in the world. I do so much for so many people. Why do I have to suffer or go through what I feel like at times is some of the hardest things to go through, but still keep a brave face, still keep a smile. Understanding that I really do believe when people say that God gives his toughest battles to his strongest soldiers, and I remind myself of that. You went through it because you could, and you come out better, and people can learn from you, and this can help somebody else. I just have to remind myself of those things because you do get caught up in the, Why me? And like, Look at everyone else. They have this, they have that. Why me? Why am I? Whatever it is. Just getting better at.

That, I think. When you talk to people, because I'm assuming that sometimes when we have that view of like, Oh, they have it all, or They have it all, I'm sure you talk to people behind the scenes and realize they don't have it all, then how does that make you feel when you realize, Oh, wait a minute, they.

Don't have it all? Yeah. I mean, it doesn't make me feel good. I'm not wishing for anyone to be struggling or not happy, but you just realize that things are just not always what they seem. And in the world of social media, in the world of just constantly looking at everyone else, whether it's how they look, their bodies or their lives and saying, Oh, I wish that could be me, it's not reality. You don't know what people are dealing with. You don't know what people go home to. You don't know what's happening on the inside. And sometimes you do know because you'll hear things or see things and you're like, Oh, I thought this person had the perfect life. Now they're whatever. It's just really honing in on making yourself happy, figuring out what it is that you need, and not comparing or always looking at something else, because if we do that, I just feel like you'll never be happy and you'll never be satisfied because there's always going to be somebody that looks better, dresses better, younger, more talented, whatever it is. If you're looking for a reason to knock yourself down, you're going to find it.

It's not that hard. You're going to find it. You have to be whole within yourself. I am confident within myself. I'm not insecure, I'm confident, and I do walk with a certain level of confidence. That part I'm good at, dealing with the just like, Wow, why me do certain things happen to, I'm still pushing through that and learning every day. Life is about learning. I don't think you're supposed to ever have it all figured out. You strike me as somebody that has it all figured out, but you're learning every day. I think when we have these conversations, you learn from us and vice versa. It's a constant learning experience.

Yeah, I'm constantly trying. It's really interesting, isn't it? When you are in a position of influence, people often assume that you do have it all figured out. I'm constantly, I think people who listen to the podcast, they know me very deeply and intimately because they hear me say, I struggled with this week, or This is something I'm going through. But if someone just sees a post on social media, they think, Oh, yeah, everything must be perfect. I find that I encourage everyone, and this is why you coming on the podcast is so great, because I encourage everyone to study people they follow a bit deeper, not to take them down or to think happy that they've got problems too, not that reason, but the reason of when you really study someone or you get to know someone, you start to realize we're all actually in a much more similar place.

Right, it's so true. And what I've learned in my journey of life is you start realizing no matter how much money, how much status or whatever, my friends that I grew up with when I had nothing are going through similar issues as friends of mine who have all the money in the world, all the success, all the people are people. What you deal with every day is what you deal with every day. Money status doesn't change that. I think we live in a society where people automatically assume money fixes everything, or influence fixes everything. Or fame fixes everything. Not understanding that there are so many amazing things that come with it. I'm not going to sit here and be like, Oh, being successful, being famous, being whatever is like the worst thing in the world. I'm not that person. I'm so grateful for my success, my fame, my influence, and I don't take it lightly, but it doesn't mean that it protects me or stops me from dealing with other things. And fame, influence comes with other sets of problems. People feeling like they can criticize you, people feeling like your life is an open book and they can say anything.

A lot of us, when we go through things, the whole world doesn't have to know about it. When people like us go through things, it's open for discussion for the whole world, and everyone has an opinion, and that's not easy either. You just have to continue to strengthen yourself to be able to deal with all of that that comes with it.

Yeah, I love what you said there. I've thought about that a lot too, because last time you came, we were tracking your whole career journey. You've done you've hustled, you've worked hard, you've done so much to get to where you are today, and I want to get to that. But for me, as I've been on this journey, I've been reflecting on what's changed over time as my external situation's changed and what makes me feel protected, and you used that word protection. I've realized that, of course, we have to have our internal protection of how we feel about ourselves, our confidence, our own practices. But I found that the thing that makes me feel the most protected is knowing the people around me who really know me and how much closer we get through that process. I have to take so much strength in the fact that the people around me, not only do they have my back, but they actually know me and understand me at a core. I take a lot of energy from that. Do you.

Do the same? I take so much energy from that. I'm like, the people who know, they know. The people that I need to depend on, they're always there. I'm blessed to have an amazing family, amazing group of friends that are ride or die that I know are there no matter what, and it's something that I don't take lightly. It's not about proving to the world anything. If my core group gets it, knows me inside and out, knows my ups, knows my downs, and are there for me, that's the energy I pull from as well.

I want to talk to you about friendship. I think a lot of people feel quite... Even when you're close friends, and I'm sure you felt this, it's hard to open up about things that are going wrong in your life. I think a lot of people are listening or watching. That's something that they can relate to where it's like, I have my friends, but I don't know how to tell them that I'm going through this, or I know they'd care about me, but I don't want them to feel sorry for me. Yeah, that's it too. Or maybe they're going through so much stuff that I don't want to put my stuff on them. How have you managed to keep strong relationships as you've grown in life, as you've built your career? How have you managed to keep that core instead of losing it as you.

Get more busy? I think that my friendships have gotten even stronger because of those moments. I don't base my friendships off of, this person has only been around when everything's been great, or we only talk about sunshine and flowers and cookies. Friends have to be there through everything, and you have to be able to be okay with being raw and real with people that you consider your friend. And don't throw that word around lightly. If you're saying, This is my friend, this is my go-to, you should be able to share whatever's happening in your life, whether it's good or bad, and those are the things that bond you through those. I remember the friends that were there for me when I was going through my divorce, when I was publicly going through what I was going through as a result of what happened in my marriage. I remember my friends that were there. I remember when my son was really young and had to have surgery and who was there in that moment. I remember all of that, and those were the strengthening moments of our friendship. Now, the fun stuff is great, too. I remember my friends who've been on vacation with me and got drunk and had a great time, but it's a balance.

The real friendships had a mix of all of that stuff because that's what life is. Life is not always just fun and games. Life is up and down and up and down. That's what life is.

Was there anything that a friend said to you or guidance you heard when you were going through a divorce that really helped or that really stayed with you or that you carry around in your heart?

Just not to blame myself. This isn't your fault not to blame myself. That always stuck with me because it's easy to just blame yourself or get down on yourself or what was it that I did. When I say not blaming yourself, I'm not saying don't take accountability for whatever you might have had to do with the situation. It's important to sit back and say, Okay, where could I have been better? Because life is about being better and learning. You don't want to just say, Oh, this happened. It had nothing to do with me. You want to understand like, Where could I have done better? Or where did maybe I fall short on some things? But that's different than blaming your sofa what happened. I think by taking accountability, I was able to grow and become a better person for whatever happens in my life in the future. You don't go through these experiences not to learn, then what was the point? You don't go through these experiences to then duplicate the same issues in your next relationship or your next marriage, or whatever it is. That's not what that was there for. It was to learn to get better, and then to apply that knowledge to the next situation, whether it's a friendship, relationship, marriage, whatever it is.

I love what you brought out there, and I want everyone to just take note of that, because I think we think we either have to take full responsibility or no responsibility. We either blame the other person or we blame ourselves. It's only either or. The truth is, it's so much more balanced where it's like, I don't want to blame myself and beat myself up, because that's going to send me down a terrible spiral. At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and just blame everything on the other person because that's not true, and there's accountability on both sides. Let me look at how can I be better, but how can I not beat myself up? What is it that you think you learned or what about you do you think has become better or healed? Or what have you worked on because of that shift in your life?

Just a balance, understanding balance. I'm such a career-driven, work-driven person that could just take over my life, and that becomes what's the most important to me. Outside of my son, there's never been anything that's more important than Keyan. You know, this you just get caught up in the work, and next thing you know, friends or partners or whatever are feeling neglected or like, I just feel like you never have time, or you're not making them feel special in their moments and being there for them because it's like, You got to film one more podcast. I got to go to set. I got to film one more episode. I got to go do this really fast, but it'll be quick, and I'll come right back. Then you realize when people, friends as well, are feeling neglected in those departments, problems can happen because of that. You start looking for other ways to fulfill that void and that need, and that's how things happen. So again, it's not blaming myself, but just being aware of things that happen and finding that balance and getting better at that balance. And I need the balance, Jay, for myself. It's not even for a partner, for myself, because I should be okay with having a personal life and a professional life and not feel guilty.

I was the person that if I went on a vacation, I felt guilty, like I got to work. I can't be doing this. I don't want people to think I'm just having a good time. I should be on set. I should be really beating myself up. Meanwhile, I work my ass off. I should be able to take a vacation if I want to take a month off, I should be able to do that. I've been in this industry since I was 16 years old, I should be able to do that. I have enough equity in the game with all I've given it to be able to do that, but I still would feel so guilty over that. That's the balance that I'm talking about.

Yeah, I know. I'm really glad that you went that step further of like, it's giving yourself to your friends, a potential partner, but also to yourself. What do you think it was for you that blocked you from giving yourself that permission? And the reason I asked that is because I was looking at the studies in the US, and it was saying how so many people don't take all of their leave from work. Most people are not taking their leave, and there's not even that much leave in the US to take. So when I was in the UK, you get like 30 days off a year. Wow. That's awesome. -yeah, and here it's not that many. And so when I moved here, and I remember looking at that, I was thinking, Wow, and still people aren't taking time off. I think that's something people can relate to that a lot of people struggle to think, Well, maybe when I come back, I'll have so many more emails. Oh, my God, I'm going to be so behind. Oh, my gosh, I won't get promoted this year. Oh, my gosh, I might get let go. I'm competing with this person.

I may become irrelevant. I have to stay on top of stuff. What was it for you that do you think stopped you from giving yourself permission to have a balance?

Definitely a fear. And you and I always talk about fear. A fear of someone's going to come and take my job, or someone's going to come and take my place. Or I used to take so much pride in being like, even if I'm not the most talented, I'm the hardest worker. No one can outwork me. And that was like my badge of honor. I will outwork everyone until you're burnt out and you don't have anything else to give. And then what? They move on to the next person anyway. So it's like you have to take care of yourself. And I had to learn that because I would just go until I couldn't go anymore and then not have anything to give to anyone because I didn't have that balance. But that was all because of fear and not also believing in myself enough to say, I'm enough, and if someone is able to just come and take this from me, it was never mind to begin with, and really being okay with that. But I just think we... Well, I grew up in a world where it's so competitive, and it's like you can't take your foot off the gas as soon as you do it, somebody else is coming, or don't even give somebody else a chance to take your spot, whatever that even means.

But that's the culture I grew up in and what I was conditioned and brainwashed to always believe. So it was like, Go till you can't go anymore. And now I'm like, I'm not doing that anymore. Have I reached the place where I found the perfect balance? No, but I am getting better at it. I just told you I took a trip. I was at a couple of different places. Prior to that, I took Kian to the Cayman Islands, and we had a great time, and I felt happy. I felt not guilty for doing that. And I felt okay with posting about it, not thinking like, Oh, they're going to think this girl, she's always on vacation, or something like that. I felt good about that because I deserve it and I need to do that.

Do you lay awake scrolling at bedtime, or wake in the middle of the night and struggle to fall back to sleep? Start sleeping better tonight. I'm Catherine Nicolai, and my podcast, Nothing Much Happens Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep, has helped millions of people to get consistent, deep sleep. I tell family-friendly bedtime stories that train you to drift off and return to sleep quickly. I use a few sleep-inducing techniques along the way that have many users asleep within the first three minutes. I hear from listeners every day who have suffered for years with insomnia, anxiety at nighttime, and just plain old, busy brain who are now getting a full night's sleep every night. I call on my 20 years of experience as a yoga and meditation teacher to create a soft landing place where you can feel safe and relaxed and get excellent sleep. Listen to Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to help you sleep with Catherine Nicolai on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I am Iyamla.

And on my podcast, The R-Spot, we're having inspirational, educational, and sometimes difficult and challenging conversations about relationships.

They may not have the capacity to give you what.

You need.

And insisting means that you are abusing yourself now. You're human. That means that you're crazy as hell, just like the rest of us. When a relationship breaks down, I take copious notes and I want to share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just no good for you. But if you're going to eat it, they're not going to stop you. So he's going to continue to give.

You the Alfredo sauce and.

Put it even on your grits if you don't stop him. Listen to The R-Spot on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. What happens when the person you idolize, the person you think you know best, turns out to be someone else entirely. In a world where everyone is trying to fix themselves, fix their minds, fix their bodies, what does it look like when we settle into the reality of what might mean to be unfixed? And what if you were kidnapped by your own grandparents and left with an endless well of mysteries about yourself and those around you? These are just a few extraordinary puzzles we'll be exploring in our ninth season of Family Secrets. With over 32 million downloads and nearly 100 unique stories in our feed, we continue to be in awe of our guests whose stories of courage and tenacity about breaking through the walls of secrecy never to amaze. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Absolutely. I love hearing the practical ways in which it's actually taking part. It's really interesting. It's so much about what we get our significance from, what makes us feel worthy. For some of us, it's overworking. For some of us, it's overgiving. For some of us, it's oversharing. It's like, what makes you feel worthy? Today, what makes you feel worthy and happy today?

Definitely my son. He makes me so happy because you start really seeing the influence you have over your child at a certain age where it's like, Wow, everything I've taught him or things I've tried to drill in his head, now I'm seeing it actually come to forewishing. Or he's repeating things to me that I'm like, Oh, he was listening to me when I said that. Or he is following my guidance or advice. He's 16 years old now and he's making a career and a lane for himself in basketball. He's doing so well. But I just see how humble he is, how kind he is, how he's all about giving back to the community and all the things that are so important to me. Now I'm just seeing him take on all of that same stuff, and that makes me so happy because I feel like I did a great job. It's not like I'm done being a parent, but I did a great job thus far of being a parent and never allowing whatever was happening in my life or to affect my parenting or affect how I was with my child. That's something that makes me happy and something I'm really proud of because that's not easy to deal with day-to-day life and ups and downs and then come home and be there for your child and be willing to just listen to their needs and what they have going on, that's not easy.

What's been the biggest thing you think he's taught you?

Definitely patience. Everyone says you don't experience love till you have a child, and you're like, Well, what does that really mean? I know what it's like to love someone, but it definitely is a different love. So just unconditional love, patience. I always say that my son is my best friend. Now it's interesting because people will say that, and I don't know if you've read about this, Jay, I'm curious to know your tape, people will say that your children should not be your best friend, that you should be a parent and your child should not be your best friend. I'm on the other side of it. My son is my best friend, and I'm still able to be a parent and have him as my best friend. And best friend, I mean, I spend more time with my son than anyone else. I live with my child, so he's the person I live with. He's my roommate, essentially, and knows me in every shape and form, the happy days, the sad days, everything. And there's nothing I don't feel like we can talk about on his side, on my side. To me, those are all the qualities of a best friend.

Do I still parent him and discipline him? Of course. Of course I do. But I read a lot of talk about that. And sometimes when I write, hanging with my best friend is like, Oh, your son should be our best friend. You should just be parent. That's the problem these days. Parents trying to be their kids, friends, and this and that. I come from a different...

Yeah. Obviously, I'm not a parent, so I can't answer it from that perspective. But if I think about it with my parents, I would say at this point, I'm good friends with my parents. I would say I wish we were best friends growing up. And I felt that I was parented, which made me actually not tell them stuff and keep secrets and do my own thing and not really have that open relationship with them, which I think would have been healthier for me and for them. And now I'm glad that it's evolved to where it has. But I agree I would have liked to have been friendlier with my parents when I was younger, because I think I could have avoided a lot of the mistakes I made had I had that relationship with them.

And felt comfortable talking to them about certain things.

Yeah, I was always scared to tell them anything. I feel.

Like I'm about to get in trouble. Exactly.

I don't think that that was a healthy feeling as a child of, Oh, I'm going to get into trouble if I do. Not as a child, as a teenager. But not as a child, I was obedient anyway. But when I was a teenager, I think that's the age. If you can be friends with your 16-year-old, that's pretty dope.

And being friends, Jay doesn't mean he doesn't get in trouble. Because if he does something wrong, he gets in trouble or I have to sit down and talk to him. But I think it's the approach and the way because sometimes just yelling or it's not effective, at least from what I've seen with other people, parenting, and I don't judge anyone's parenting, but yelling, screaming, like they're not hearing you. So sometimes just having an honest conversation on why you shouldn't have done that or why that was wrong for me, that gets me further than like, What the hell are you thinking? Why did it happen? They're blocking you out. They're not.

Hearing you anyway. I actually went through something like that the other day, so I bumped into someone and I was talking to their teenager. He was probably maybe 14, 15. His mom was behind me telling him what to ask me. It was almost like she was making it out, like he wouldn't ask good questions.

Right, like not giving him the opportunity.

Yeah, and the thing is, he was actually asking really smart questions, and I was really engaged, but I could see that she kept distracting him, and he kept being like, Mom, I'm talking. I got it. Right. And it was just really interesting. I'd look back and I'd smile and be like, He's cool. It's all right. It was just really interesting to me. She didn't trust that she'd actually been an.

Amazing parent. Right, and taught him well and put him in a situation where he can handle himself.

Yeah, and he was doing great. I said to her afterwards, I just want you to know you must have raised your son really well because he was so present. I was so impressed by a 15-year-old asking those kinds of questions. I wanted her to know that too, because I guess mom guilt and reflecting and feeling like it's never good enough must be a big part of what you carry too.

Yeah, for sure. That's a real thing. Mom guilt and just everything you just said is just so real. Because again, we get in the habit of beating ourselves up for everything. It's like blaming ourselves for everything. My son's like this because of whatever. It is nice when I always say the biggest compliment I've ever heard is when people tell me, Your son's so well-mannered. He's so humble. He's so down to earth. He cares about people. That makes me feel better than anything. Any award, any high-rated TV show, movie, anything. Like someone to tell me that my kid is kind and humble and well-mannered, that's the best thing I could ever hear.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love hearing that. I want to talk about your career, because last time you came, we did a full biography of all the jobs and how you started. We talked about your first job and how you broke through. What about you're a driven, ambitious person still, despite everything you've achieved. What is that drive pursuing today? What does that look like.

Right now? I'm always trying to figure out what my next thing is. I'm always working extremely hard. I think I still am close enough to remember what not having felt like to continue to push myself the way I do. I'm not that far removed from remembering what that felt like, and it lives in me, and it's close to me. So I'm like, I don't like that. I don't want to go back there. So that's the motivation and the drive to continue to push forward. And I enjoy it. I like working. I mean, my mom tells me all the time, You don't think you should just take a break? And I'm like, Mom, I like working. Some people like other things. I like working. Some people rather be at home and do certain things, which is fine. Everyone has a different motivation. I like working. That brings me happiness. That brings me joy. I push myself in that department. But for me, I'm always trying to see what's next. Right now, I'm heavy in the acting space, producing space, really big on my prison reform charity, which takes up a lot of my time, and giving back in that way is so important to me.

Those are where my immediate focuses are right now, but there's always so many things happening.

With the acting and production, what part of it right now do you feel most immersed and in love with? Because you've done both for a while now. What's the project that's bringing you alive.

Right now? Just finding projects that I'm interested in, producing is so amazing because you can now bring something that you love to life and you can be in control of that IP or whatever it is, and bring it to life. So producing just puts you in control. For so long as an actor, you're waiting for someone else to give you an opportunity. You're auditioning with 10 other girls that look very similar to you and just hoping that, Hey, pick me, pick me. I'm the right person for the role. And nine times out of 10, you don't get picked. I mean, you get those lucky times, but for the most part, you don't always get picked. So by producing, you're not waiting, now you're creating and you're also putting yourself in a position to create jobs and opportunities for other people. And that's what I'm about, opening the doors for other people to come in and have these experiences and be able to give them a piece of what I have going on. So that's what I love about producing and just going out there and finding projects that mean something to me. And it's not always about like, Oh, I want to produce this because I want it to be this huge success.

Of course you want things you do to be a huge success, but sometimes you want to do it for you. I'm passionate about this. I want to tell this story. And whoever gets it, gets it. Maybe this is not the billion-dollar hit or whatever. Maybe this is just for a small group of people that are into this, but that matters to me. So that's what gets me excited from the producing standpoint. In acting, I am on a show, so it's great to just have steady work. I love the people I work with. I love the show I'm a part of. It's incredible, and it's nice to just always have that in.

The stash. Yeah, absolutely. You spoke about rejection there again. Another thing I think people relate to, whether they're auditioning, applying for jobs. It's one of those things that we all face in life in different realms. I think people often think that when you get to a certain level of success, you don't get rejection anymore. That is not true. How does that feel like after having... I don't know how many auditions you must have done in your life.

Oh, my God. More than I could ever count.

Right? How many taped auditions, in-person?

In-person, signing the contract before, thinking that I definitely had the job just to find out that they're not going with me. I've had everything.

Happen to me. Does it get easier? And how do you react to rejection differently today than you did.

16 years ago? Today I realized that most of the time it has nothing to do with you. There's so many other factors. And now being on the producing side, I see the other factors. Could be anything, it could be anything. It could be height. It just could be how you stand next to your co-star, it could be a million things that are out of your control is not a decision based on you weren't good enough or you weren't talented enough. And once I realized that, I got better with dealing with it and also being happy and grateful for the person who did get the job because for whatever reason, they were the right person for that job. Not feeling like, Oh, why did they give it to them and not me? Actually leading with grace and kindness and realizing that because I started doing that, more good things started happening for me. But in the beginning, it was like, Oh, they don't like me. I didn't do a good job. Oh, they think I suck. I shouldn't be doing this. I was ready to give up on acting a hundred times. I was like, Clearly, this is the one thing that's never going to happen for me.

I had to have one thing that just wasn't going to go. This is it. But I just kept being persistent, kept learning, kept getting better, and then realizing now a lot of the decisions are not based on talent. There's just so many other factors.

When my videos were first seen seven years ago, around a year later, a TV production company had reached out and said, We want to make a TV show about your work. I was like, This is so cool. I never imagined in a million years that that would even be possible. And so we made the deck. We went and pitched it to all these companies. And it was really interesting because no one took the show. I was really passionate about the idea we'd created. I thought it was really cool and different, and no one cared. It didn't even go beyond the first meeting. From the first meeting, I was like, We're not sure. And it's really interesting to me because I was talking about this with a friend a couple of weeks ago, and I was saying that one thing that happened was it built a number of long-term friendships. So everyone I met at those pitches, not everyone, but some of the people have become long-term friends that I actually still see now socially, even though we never did anything professionally. There was a massive win. The other thing was it gave me a great experience of what that process is like.

I'd never done it before. Now I actually understand what that looks like, and it was a complete learning curve. But the third one, which is the best one, is I often say to people, had I had been given that show, I potentially may never have started this podcast. I potentially may never have written my book. I potentially may never have gone on tour this year because I wouldn't have had this opportunity to have to build my own work. It's so true. That's what I want to remind people, is just trust in the timing. As long as you're moving forward. That's it. And I think that's the mistake that we often make, is that our disappointment slows us down or our feeling of failure forces us to just switch off. And instead, when you're moving, shifting, figuring things out, discovering anything is possible.

Yeah, it's so true. And it's funny because on our last podcast, I would say it's been years, and you said that clip is still viral. But we talk about fear, and we always say that people stop because they're disappointed of fear right before something great is going to happen. You stop and don't even realize right past that. If you push past that feeling, if you push past that, amazing things are going to happen. And because of our talk, I realized how much that resonated with people. Don't let the fear and disappointment stop you because you don't know what's going to happen after that. Let it build you. Let it build your character. Let it build your armor to be strong and to go through these things so that you can keep, like you said, as long as you're moving forward, it's just so important.

What fear are you trying to push forward from right now in your life?

I'm such a people pleaser. Even as a young kid, I've always wanted to be liked by everyone. I was that person like, I wanted everybody to be my friend. And it's funny because people say all the time, Oh, La is friends with everybody. Everybody loves Lala, which is great. I don't think everybody loves you, but that's great. But also being okay with understanding that you'll never be able to please everyone, especially in this day and age of we talked about social media, everyone now having a platform to comment, to tell you what you're doing wrong, and speak about who you are as a person, people that don't even know you. There was a time where that would have really rattled me and bothered me because it's like, Well, you don't even know me. You never had a conversation with me. If you knew me, you would love me. You would see I'm this type of person. Now it's like, I'm secure of myself. I'm continuing to push through that fear of wanting to be liked or the fear of someone not liking me, I should say that, the fear of someone not liking me. I've gotten so much better at that.

And just embracing the people that love me and care about me. Another thing my mom's always told me, I quote my mom a lot. She's a very smart person. Another thing my mom always told me is celebrate the people that are there. You can have a party or a get-together. And the first thing you'll say is, Well, why didn't so-and-so come? Yeah, dam, I invited so and so. Why aren't they here? You're not even acknowledging the 10, 15, 20 people that came to support you on your birthday or whatever the occasion was. Well, damn, I invited so and so. They didn't even come. I always remind myself of that. Celebrate the people who are there for your moments, who want to be there with you and stop worrying about the person who wasn't there. Same thing with comments. Jay, we love you. You're the greatest. We listen to everything. That one person who's like, Jay, what the hell are you talking about? You don't know what you're talking about? You're like, zooming in on that, want to find out? You want to find out, you want to respond, you want to go to their page, see how they look and all.

But you just had a thousand comments about how wonderful you are and that one of just throw people off. I've just gotten so much better at that. I won't give somebody that much power over me. Again, I want to celebrate the people who are celebrating me. That's what I'm getting.

Better at. Yeah. No, I love that you said that. Literally, it was a habit that I used to have where you'd see all these good reviews or good comments, and you would literally just scroll past them, just waiting for the negative one. And I've changed too. That's so true. You're treating the good ones like, Oh, yeah, sure. Of course. You don't really mean that. And then when someone says something bad and I've trained myself now, I genuinely do this, and I talk about it in the podcast a lot, I will sit there and I will read a positive review, I'll read a comment, a positive comment, and I'll let it sit here. It's so important. And I'll just let it sit there and I'll let myself accept it, because for so long I just tried to not let myself accept it. And I don't mean let it go to your head. I mean, feel it in your heart like someone felt like telling you that your work or your words or whatever it was your life or that clip of you on the last podcast, that that made a difference in their lives. Let that just let yourself receive that.

And I wish all of us would allow ourselves to receive love as seriously as we receive hate. It's so true. When you see hate, you don't think that might not be true. You just accept that it must be true. Whereas when you see love, you think, Oh, yeah, they didn't really mean that. Oh, it probably isn't that real. It's so interesting how we second-guess.

It's such an interesting, and it's interesting because we'll believe that hate is true from someone who doesn't even.

Know us.

This is coming from someone who never had a conversation with you, who knows nothing about you. So it's like, Okay, it's the wrong way to think, but you had to train yourself to think differently. I had to train myself to think differently. For me, a lot of times it's better for me just not to read anything because I still can get hyper-focused on. So I don't really get caught up in that. I get caught up in more like when people stop me and say, Love you, La. Thanks for this, or whatever it is. Those are my genuine moments. And I do still sometimes take a peek, but I don't go too deep.

That's safer. I do think that's safer.

I do like to peek in, but I don't-I don't go too deep.

I think that's safer. And sometimes when I see criticism, I'll also allow myself, if I'm in a good space, because I agree with you. What I'm sharing is when you're in a good space, if you're really struggling with it, just turn it off and get away from it. I'm fully with you. But if I'm in a good place, I'll look at criticism and I'll say, Let me take the feedback and leave the criticism. How do I do that? How do I listen to this, allow it in, but then leave the part that is the venom in it or the spite, or the ferociousness. Take that out and take the feedback, because there could be something for me to.

Learn, and I'm open to that. The constructive part of it or constructive criticism part of it, I do understand that. I don't think all of us are there yet.

Neither am I. I'm trying.

Yeah, exactly. We're trying. And a lot of us are still struggling with understanding what being love feels like or never being loved growing up. I work with so many people through my charity and just people I know who you realize some of the basic principles of just love they've never experienced and don't understand what that is, but they do understand hate, being told you're not good enough, being ignored, not being paid attention to. So they gravitate more to that because that's what they're used to. It's just about changing the narrative. I talk about that with the group that I work with through my charity, 360, all the time is like changing the narrative, changing those negative thoughts into positive thoughts. That's really important.

Hey, it's Debbie Brown, and my podcast, Deeply Well, is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey, from guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy. Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self, make better choices, heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life and live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply Well is available now on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcast. Big love. Namaste.

Listen to comeback stories. I'm Darren Waller. You may know me best as a tie-in for the New York giants. You may also know me for my story of overcoming addiction and alcoholism. You may have heard a few of my tracks as an artist or producer. You may have seen the work that I've done through my foundation. And you may know my friend and co-host, Donnie Starkins, as well. He's a mindfulness teacher, a yoga instructor, a life coach, a man fully invested in seeing people reach their fullest potential. And we've come to form this platform of comeback stories to really highlight not only our own adversity, but adversity in the lives of well-known guests with amazing stories. Catch us every week on Come Back Stories on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What got you involved in the prison reform work? And what is the thing that you think would surprise us to learn about it? Because you've actually spent time, you're working with people, it's your charity, it's your project. What do you think would surprise us?

I think that people would be surprised how simply changing a person's environment and simply loving someone can be all you need to actually see a complete change in a person. Telling someone you love them, telling someone you're proud of them is sometimes enough to just completely change a person. And realizing that those simple words a lot of people have never even heard before. It's mind-blowing that I'll sit with the young men in my program. I mostly work with young men ages 18 to 21, and they will tell me they've never heard someone say, I love you before. They've never heard, definitely never heard someone say, I'm proud of you. What have I ever done for someone to be proud of me? Or definitely just never knew what feeling important to somebody was. And when they start feeling that, the change you see in them, when I put them in situations, whether it's jobs or things to thrive, like how amazing they've been doing just because the environment is different. You can love somebody all you want and then put them back in that same toxic, dysfunctional environment. And then like, Well, why are they acting like this?

They shouldn't be acting like this. Why are they being a menace to society? But we wouldn't last one day in a household like that, and just being compassionate. So love and a change in environment are two of the key things that I've seen where I've seen the most success and the most.

Change, for sure. Yeah, that is fascinating. And how do you get... I guess the external perception is everyone would be quite hard in prison and be quite cold. How do you have a conversation about love and compassion and empathy with someone who hasn't had it before? How do you even start that conversation? Because I think the perception would be they'd just be like, I don't need to be loved. There'd be a certain shield to it. Is that real? Is that true, or do you find it.

Quite easy to talk to her? When I first come in, it's not easy. There's like, if it's a new group, it's the stone phase.

That's what I mean, yeah.

Yeah, we know Lala, but what's she going to talk to us about? But it's really just having real, authentic conversations. When you talk to somebody, Jay, you just have that talent to where they know you're speaking from a genuine place. When you talk to me, I'm like, I got to listen to what Jay's saying. What would Jay do in this situation? You just have that. So it's like when you're speaking from your heart and you're leading with love, people feel that. Even the hardest people feel that because at everyone's core, what do we want? We want to be loved. Everyone wants to be loved whether they've experienced or not. At everyone's core, they want to be loved. So I'm going to hit you in that place that just wants to be loved. I'm also going to make you understand that I understand what you've been through. I understand why you may have made some of these choices. Guess what? I'm not judging you, but I'm pushing you to do better. That's how I'm going to run my group and what we talk about. And once they hear that and feel that, it just melts away.

They just want to hug. They just want you to tell them you love them. They just want to sit down and have some food with you. It just melts away. And it's emotional. It's incredible to see. And I wish that more people could be involved in the work and see this instead of just writing certain people off because of whatever they've been through. Because one thing I always say is, Hey, these guys in my program are not going anywhere. So you got two choices. They can either be an asset to our communities or they can be a problem. Which one do you want? Because they're not going anywhere. So I'd rather mold them and work with them to be assets and great fathers and great community leaders and great workers inin our community than be a problem. Sometimes all they really need is to feel supported and to feel loved. That's been my experience.

For sure. What drew you to that work specifically? I mean, you could have started something about anything in the world. What was it deeply inside of you that was like, This is where I want to put my energy and effort.

I think just growing up, that's always been a part of life, knowing someone who's in jail, seeing different things, but feeling helpless What can I do? I can just go visit, write a letter here and there. I'm not in a position to do anything. You would see things that you wanted to change but feel helpless. And now I'm in a position where I can actually make change. I can actually use my voice and my platform to make a change and help people I care about who are still incarcerated or people who have been incarcerated, help them change their experience and provide them with different things that people before us didn't have. So I'm going to use my platform for that. And also, as a mom of a 16-year-old, a young black man, I understand how all of us are one decision or one bad moment away from being any of the kids that I deal with who are incarcerated right now. How many of my kids was at the wrong place at the wrong time, hanging with the wrong crowd? We can relate to that. I have a son. He could be at the wrong place at the wrong time, trying to be cool, running with a certain group of kids.

Anything can happen. So I'm sympathetic to that. And I think that's where I draw my inspiration from to want to do the work.

Did you see the lack of support, like breaking families? How bad did it get?

It got bad. It got bad. I saw it. It got bad. I had one of the closest people to me. His mother was incarcerated, for many, many years and just seeing what it was like for him to grow up without his mom being there. She was there in every way, but she was incarcerated. She is an amazing mother, but she was incarcerated, and just watching what that felt like and feeling like there's got to be a way to still hold the family bonds even with this going on. So just seeing things and like, This doesn't make sense, or, This is supposed to be a rehabilitation, but there's no rehabilitation going on. Where are the programs? Where are the things so that people can come out and not do the same mistakes or be better equipped to make better decisions? What are we doing? And now, again, being in a position, I would see all of that, but again, feel helpless. What am I going to do? I can't do anything. All I could do is go visit on the visiting days, buy some food out the vending machine, and call it a day. What am I going to do?

But now I can do something. It's just what I've become so passionate about. And when I look at the young men in my program, I always say I speak to them and look at them the same way I talked to Kian, my son, who's 16 years old, because they're 18. They're two years away from Kian, and dealing with some of the same struggles and issues that I see Kianne goes through. Insecure, trying to fit in, trying to be the cool kid, all of these things that sometimes can lead to bad decisions and trouble if you don't have strong family and strong support, and they don't have that.

Yeah. Could you tell us maybe some of the stories that you've seen of people coming back into society and some of the moments where you're like, Wow, this is like, it's inspiring and hope.

For giving. Yeah. I had a kid in my program, his name is Rondo. While he was incarcerated, I bought someone who worked for Reform Alliance, which is founded by Michael Rubin, Meek Mill, Jay Z. I had Jessica Jackson, who works really close with Kim Cherashian. They came and they visited and Rondo just stood out to them. I remember Jessica telling him, When you get out, I'm going to have a job for you. You really have blew me away, won me over, and they waited and waited for him to come out. When he came out, he came out on a Thursday. I was at the court when they released him. He came out on a Thursday. He was in that office on Monday starting his job, working so hard. Now, when you see this kid, Jay, it's unbelievable. He's traveled the whole country. He's spoken on platforms with Kim, who is my best friend, obviously. So I'm like, Kim and Rondo side by side talking about prison reform, him speaking to the Gen Z population about what needs to be done, his experiences. I'm just mind-blown. I found this kid in Rikers Island fighting, dealing with so many different things, and now he's side-by-side with Kim and Michael Ruben.

Not too long ago, I'm like, He's at Michael Ruben's house hosting a panel. It's mind-blowing. And what was it? Opportunity, change of environment, love that made the change. And we have others that are following in the same path. But it's amazing to see. It makes you just feel like it's all worth it. Everything I'm doing is worth it.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I think it's hard sometimes to connect the dots. I was talking to, I think you probably know Scott as well, Scott Budnik. I was with Scott a couple weeks ago, and he's so passionate. He's so passionate.

For.

Those people who don't know, Scott made the three hangover movies, but then also made Just Mercy. That movie for him was all about prison reform and changing the narrative and trying to give people an opportunity and rethinking how we feel about people and how we treat people who've made certain decisions. And it's so phenomenal to hear that so many people, also all of you are collaborating - Yeah, for sure. -in order to do this.

For sure. You can't do this type of work alone, Jay. You need a support system. And my charity, again, is 360, and I'm so happy to have Reform Alliance as a partner who really guide me and help me because I'm new to this space. I'm not new to the experience, but I'm new to this space. Just learning and navigating and them just really holding my hand through the whole thing has been great. You can't do it alone, but it's a challenging space, but such a rewarding space at the same time.

Yeah. Lala, you've had such a career in the public eye, life in the public eye, what's something about you that you think people don't know that you'd love them to know?

People around me always say, People don't know how funny you are. I'm joking around all the time. I'm always up for having a good time. I want to be the life of the party, and I love seeing everyone around have a good time. Those are some things. I'm just learning to just enjoy life and the new chapter in my life. It still is new coming from being married, not anymore, and just like, What does that look like? That's why I said, You can't put a time frame on things. People would think, Oh, by now she would already be in another relationship, or be married again, or whatever, and none of that has happened yet. I'm okay with that. I'm just going with the flow in whichever way life takes me. I'm just going that way and just understanding that everything happens when it's supposed to. Not rushing things, just enjoying the moment.

Yeah, I definitely found your humor came through when I first met you. I was just cracking out that everything you're saying. I was just like, you definitely feel that when you meet someone, and it's interesting because I feel like people say the same. When I'm on stage or when I'm in person, I'm hopefully a lot funnier than I am on my social media page. When I'm with my wife, I'm definitely funnier because I'm boring from her because she's hilarious. But it's so hard transitioning, and it's so hard transitioning in the public eye because it's almost like you have all these opinions. You have other people's narratives. You're still trying to figure things out yourself. And it's almost like I almost liken it. I always say to people, imagine you're going through something and everyone in your family, everyone in your friends circle is talking about it, and everyone has their version. That's what you're experiencing at a news level, a world level. Right. And that's very difficult when you are either in that space yourself or you have friends in that space and you see how challenging it is, and you're saying you're trying to enjoy the moment, and obviously, like you're saying, you haven't just moved on and it's not as easy, is the hardest thing about it that you thought life was going a certain way and then it didn't?

Is that the hardest thing about it?

That's the hardest thing. You don't get married to get divorced. Nobody gets married and says, I'm getting divorced. You get married because you feel like you found your person, and this is what the rest of your life is going to be like, and you start building a life with this person, and then something changes that you weren't prepared for, that you don't have the tools and skills to... No one's going to prepare you for a divorce. You're married right now, Jay. No one's telling you, Jay, come sit down. Let me tell you what's going to happen when you get divorced. No one... Nobody's doing that. We're wishing you and your wife the best to ride off into the sunset forever together. So you're not equipped with the knowledge and the tools on what to do emotionally or anything when that happens, and then you just find yourself in a position to just figure it out. So that's really difficult. And life for me looks different right now. And I still have those moments where I can be at home and I'm like, You could never tell me that this would be my life right now.

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I love my life right now, but owning a home by myself, my son and I living together, then on certain days, him going to stay with his dad, and then I'm home alone. It's still a family, but separate in a sense. Just, Okay, well, what time are you coming home today? You could have never told me that that was going to be my life, but what can I do? I have to adjust. I have to adjust and be strong and figure out what the new norm is. This is my new normal, and I just had to adjust to it. Was it easy? Of course not. Are there still days where it can hit you and be really hard? Yeah, and I want to be honest and tell people that, because it's been a while for me, and you would really think that by now, that's something I never think about anymore. Of course I do. I had a family, a beautiful family, and now I still have a family, but it just looks a little bit different, and I'm okay with that. But it's still your moments where you're like, Wow, this is different.

Yeah, absolutely. I guess it sounds like both of you have been able to be there for Kian so that he's.

Having-yeah, co-parenting is strong with us, and that's something I'm very grateful for, because whatever happened between me and his dad, I don't feel like Kian should have to suffer because of that. So we try to do a good job at co-parenting and still leading with love. And kids are going to be a reflection of what they see. I could tell them all day, Oh, no, me and your dad... But if he sees us arguing all the time or never around each other, then it doesn't matter what I say, but we make it a point for him to see us getting along, and both being there for his moments, his basketball games, his school plays, parent-teacher conference, whatever it is. So he always feels supported because one day, Kian's going to have a family. I want him to understand what having a family means. And even though mom and dad might not have been able to figure it out in the traditional way, we still loved you, and my hope is that he can do better than we did.

You know what it is? What's really interesting about that is I don't know anyone whose life is actually traditional in the traditional way. Me either.

Even people.

Who've stayed together forever. -me either. I don't know. It's so interesting how we have these stereotypes and these views of what a healthy, successful relationship looks like between a family, people, friendships. My relationship with my parents is very different to what I would consider the traditional perfect relationship with your parents, because that wasn't our way. It's so interesting because you almost always make yourself feel guilty or ashamed for not having the traditional thing. It's true. But then when I actually think about it, I'm like, Who has the traditional setup?

I don't know. No one has it. I think the more you go through life, you start understanding and realizing that. Now my saying is like, Whatever works for them, who am I to judge and say it shouldn't be this way? It should only be this way. I mean, nothing is traditional anymore. People just have to figure out what works for them and what that looks like for them. If it works for you, that's what matters. Because at the end of the day, I always say, when you're going through something, when you're down, when you're depressed, more times than not, you're dealing with that alone. You have your friend support. But I'm saying in those critical moments, when you're in that bathroom looking in that mirror and you're crying and going through stuff, you're going through that alone. Make decisions that make you happy and not worrying about what everybody else is going to say or how people are going to view me, because in those quiet moments, you are by yourself and you have to face yourself, whatever that looks like. I had to learn that because, again, the people please, are me. What is this one going to say?

Or is this one going to be mad if I do this? I got to make this one happy. It was always about everybody else and putting myself last. Then when my whole marriage came crumbling down and I was in that bed, I was there by myself, and I had to deal with that by myself.

Yeah, that's the truth. What is being loved by yourself and someone else look like now for you? What have you learned about how you want to be loved by yourself and potentially by anyone else?

Words hold so much power. Getting better at speaking nicely to myself, being kind. Not that I used to just beat myself up and say negative things, but like, Wow, La, look how much you've accomplished. Look how many people you've helped. Look at the son you've raised. You've done really, really good. In the public eye, you've never just crumbled and fell apart. When you were able to keep it together. You went through something that would break most people. What I went through would have broken a lot of people, and I handled it with as much grace as I possibly could. And afterwards, it didn't make me change how I feel about love. I don't know if marriage is still in the cards for me. It's changed my perception on that. One of my friends was like, You cannot go on podcast and say you're never getting married again. I'm like, So I'm open. I'm just saying that I don't know if that's in the cards, but I'm being open to whatever happens. And being love by somebody else at this point to me is just really aligning with somebody that makes me feel happy, makes me feel like I can be myself, and somebody who I just enjoy being around.

It's not like I'm looking for someone to take care of me. It's not like I'm looking for a father for my son. We have all of those things. Now it's about how are you connecting with me? How are you making me feel? I get excited when I think that or believe that that person is out there somewhere, and who is it going to be? And when are they going to come find me? I get excited about those things because who doesn't want that in their life? I don't think you're meant to just go through life alone. Who doesn't want that?

There's so much of what you've said today, which is so relatable to so many, so connected to so many people's hearts.

But you bring it out of me, Jay. You just make it so comfortable. I follow you, I follow your words, your podcast. I'm on your page all the time. I'm always looking for quotes from your page. But then sometimes I got to be careful because I'm like, if I post this quote, they're going to think I'm talking about someone. I'm always like, because some of your quotes are just so spot on. I'm like, That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm always going to your page finding quote. I have a million screenshots of your quotes in my phone, but just thank you for being there for all of us in the way that you are and just making everybody feel so comfortable and loved. I've read your book. I follow what you say. In some of my hard moments, I refer to your podcast and different things, and it just really helps me. I just appreciate that.

You're just going to pick up the phone. I'm not.

Really- I'm always like, I don't want to bother you.

I'm like, You can pick up.

I'm always like, I don't want to bother you. Yeah, just go on. Okay, so.

Then I'll pick up the phone. Just call me. No, I just really, really, really believe that if we just look at the essence of the humanness in everyone that we meet, and you just realize everyone is so beautiful and wonderful and powerful and phenomenal, but we've missed it because we've all been covered over by everything else. And even that person may not be able to see that in themselves. And I try and see people through the eyes that I hope one day they'll be able to see themselves through. And that's my only gold, really, in how I try and live. I don't want to live to judge or criticize or compare or be better than anyone or holier than anyone. If we could always look at each other as equals, like true equals, because we are at our essence. We're so powerful. We're exactly the same. -every single person. -every single person. Every single animal being on this planet is exactly the same in the essence, in the pure sense of it all. And I think all we can do for each other is provide a safe space. The world's hard enough anyway. It's so hard.

It's hard enough. It's all hard enough anyway. Thank you for saying those kind words, but thank you for always opening your heart with me, opening your mind. I know this is going to help so many people who listen to it. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to.

Share that-We always get right to it. I'm sitting in this chair and it's like... We get right to it. I think we hit on so many points, and I just hope anyone listening, watching can take something away from this. I'm not perfect. I've been through a lot, still figuring life out. I don't think you ever just have it figured out. And just be kind to yourself, be patient with yourself, love yourself. It is so important. And definitely one thing we talked about is don't blame yourself. We're all doing the best we can with what we have.

No, you can hear that in your voice. It's not even... Today, it's not just about what you've said. You can hear that genuineness and that sincerity in your voice. I think it's really going to land with people. I hope everyone listens to this not once, but twice. Yes, same, twice. And everyone who's listening and watching, make sure that you cut the... I know you guys do a great job cutting stuff for TikTok yourself, Instagram. Cut the stuff that really resonated with you, that connected with you, and share it with someone, because I'm sure you've got friends who are going through breakups. Maybe they're going through a divorce. Maybe they're raising a kid on their own. Maybe everything that Lola is going through, there are so many things that I know so many of you are connected to in your ecosystems, in your lives. And I hope that you'll clip the bits that stand out to you that connect to you. And I hope you'll share it with others because sometimes we just need to feel seen, heard and understood. And I think today a lot of people will feel seen, heard and understood.

Thank you, Jay. Thank you, love you. Love you. Appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Pick up.

The phone. I will, I promise.

You have to. I will. I mean it. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendel, Jenna, on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child.

You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, That is so unfair because that's not who I am. And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, But I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?

What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down a nunnery to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils have in common? They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanaca Podcast. Check it out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen.

The Therapy for.

Black Girls Podcast is your space.

To explore mental health.

Personal development, and.

All of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

I'm your host, Dr.

Joy.

Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia.

I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday.

Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care.