The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care and we'll see you there. Hello.

This is Leverne Cox.

I'm an actress, producer, and host of the Leverne Cox Show. Do you like your tea with Lemon or Honey?

History-making Broadway performer Alex Newell.

When I sing the Holy Ghost Shows Up, that's my ministry, and I know that well about me. That's the tea, honey.

Whoever it is, you can bet we get into it. My guest and I, we go there every single time.

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Some of the deepest fears I have are related to a historical pattern of behavioral thinking, which I don't know that I was even conscious of.

Getting started in some of the biggest movie franchises of all time.

Please welcome Orlando Bloom.

Orlando Bloom. I think that our deepest fears, they often lie in areas unknown to us because anything that I try to hold on to doesn't serve me. That's really hard.

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Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty.

The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's conversation is long overdue. I've been excited for this guest to be in the studio for many, many years now, and I can't wait to have what he just It's called a heart-centric conversation, my favorite types of exchanges and interactions. Today's guest on On Purpose is the one and only Orlando Bloom, well known for starring in some of the biggest movies of all time, whether it's The Lord of the Rings or Pirates of the Caribbean and so many more. And Orlando will next be seen starring in Peacock's Limited Adventure Docu-Series, To The Edge, which Orlando also produced and premieres on April 18th. This is something I've already had a snapshot of already, a sneak peek. I can't wait for you to see it. I think it's going to challenge you internally and externally, and I think it's going to help you get out of your comfort zone this year. So make sure you don't miss To The Edge. Welcome to On Purpose, Orlando Bloom. Orlando, thank you for doing this.

Thanks for having me, Jay.

It's really an honor to have you here because I feel like we don't know each other. We've never met or spoken. It feels like it, though. Yeah, it feels like it. And even today, when we were just talking, when you came in, I was like, why is this so easy? Mystical.

What I like it.

What is it about... You were saying you're new to the world of podcasting, but it seems to be something you're opening yourself up to. Where's that coming from?

Well, first of all, I love what you do. Thank you for having me. It's so beautiful to see the messaging you put out in the The World. To the Edge is the first time I've worked in a unscripted space, and I'm very proud of it. And I thought I'd try... I haven't intentionally not done podcasts. I just I haven't. I've been wanting, as you said, to work with you for ages. I was like, to at least sit down and have a conversation with you. I tried to get to one of your speaking engagements, which I wasn't able to. But I just thought this is an opportunity to have a heart-centric conversation, and I love the messaging you're putting out. Actually, Edge is a show that came up. It was the birth child, the brainchild of a period of time that I think was really challenging in the world for everyone through COVID, where I think fear was around all of us. We were all like, Wait, what? What are we living through? This is so unique. It was palpable in my environment. I'm not comfortable with fear. I'm always like, I run into it. I want to transform it.

People say, What are you afraid of? Shox. I'm like, I'm afraid of fear because it's like, I want to confront anything in my life that feels challenging on those levels. Actually, initially, I would love to have spoken to you on my show. I had this idea where I would speak to people and also people in blue zones and spaces in the world where people have just got it figured, they've got it dialed, whether it's through diet, lifestyle choices, and all of the things that you speak about. I was like, I want to go and explore the people in the world that that. I've had this amazing opportunity with UNICEF for many years, 20 years now, almost. I've been in communities where I've seen how an impact, what a great impact, positivity can have, which I think is the message of UNICEF, also the funding that they support for communities. I was like, I want to go and talk to people, but we didn't really get... We got no hits. Nobody was really interested in me during that. I think there's also a Blue Zone show that is apparently epic as well. So they were, How about we just throw you out of a plane and see if you can swim to the bottom of the ocean?

We can throw you up a mountain. I was like, I can do that. It also feeds into my adrenaline in fueled aspects of my life. I think as a kid, I think I just was so active and physical and approached life with that fearlessness. In some ways, that was a blessing, but I definitely came out banged up and bruised. I think I was diagnosed with dyslexia when I was maybe 9, 10, so I had some extra schooling in that space. That really helped me because I had a unusually high IQ, but I just was really challenged at focus and concentration. I think I was probably undiagnosed early on with probably ADHD, which I've subsequently come to realize that was It's definitely something that I've been navigating, and now I've found my way through to the magic of what that can be for me.

Do you remember your earliest fear as a kid?

It's funny because I'm an actor, but I used to just be terrified of getting on stage. No way. I had real stage fright as a kid. My mother enrolled me into a ballet class as a kid. I think from I was probably a tiny toddler until I was maybe four or five. And I think at around four, we did this performance in Canterbury at the Marlowe Theater, which is the biggest theater in town. Pretty big theater, actually. And we did a little ballet show, which was just me. There was probably a whole lot going on, and I'm four, so I don't entirely remember. But I do know that I was dressed in a monkey suit. I remember having a really hot, itchy monkey suit on and having an itch on my bottom. And I was a little embarrassed, so I turned around to scratch my bottom so nobody would see me. But the The whole audience just ripped because... Kind of cute, right? I think my first fear was being on stage. I did all the national youth theater stuff in London. I did youth theater. Everything I could do at school was my start.

And I was just constantly every time I did it. I used to remember walking on stage and I'd be like, My mom used to do this. My mom had this one thing, and she'd shake her fist at me. Says a lot about my mom. But she'd shake her and say, You can do it. I had this thing and I'd go. And then I was confirmed in the Cathedral of Canterbury by the Archbishop of Canterbury because it was where I from and stuff, which is a big deal. It's a religious practice was always a part of my life. I'd always say a prayer as well and think and then go out and do it. It was never more focused than when I was on stage. That was a great feeling because otherwise, I think I was struggling in school. To articulate my thoughts or follow or continue my thought thread. I think fear for me was that, which is ironic because, of course, then I went on to being an actor. But also I have a... I think at 16, I moved to London, which was quite young, and I was on my own to do my A-Levels.

It was when I was 16 that I met a Buddhist practice. So early. Yeah, so I was very young to meet a Buddhist practice. It was a philosophy, and it is a religious practice, but it's way more of a philosophy and almost like a guide to life, if you like, for me.

What was it about it at 16 that resonated with you?

I think that having left institutionalized schooling that you and I both recognize from London, and England, rather, not London. I was in Canterbury, but I went to a private school. I had a pretty solid middle-colour education. It It was like there was a chapel every morning, and so I had that in me, and I think I really enjoyed that. But when I moved to London, I didn't find a church or find a community. It was when I was studying for my A-Level that I realized that I needed extra art for my sculpture exam, which I hadn't thought through. I'd given up art at quite a young age. I just didn't have a teacher that… It was unfortunate. I met through my I met an artist. He introduced me and I did extra classes. I'd go back to Kent. He was actually from Kent. I'd go down on the weekends and he'd set me up in a room and he'd say, with an easel and he'd say, Here, just do this. I'd have him in the other room and he'd be going,. One day, I walked down, I said, What are you doing? He goes, I'm just chanting that you're going to be really successful in your exams and you have a really successful life.

I was like, Cool. Well, will it help? He goes, Yeah. I was like, Great. I just got down on I was like,. And so David, who I've known since I'm maybe 17, 16 or 17, but he shakabooca me, which is what we call him in my practice, where it's where someone introduces you to the practice. And he was wonderful because he... At 16, I was living in London, and I was a real terror away. I was a club kid. I was having a really good time. Everything was like... I don't want to mischaracterize myself myself because in some ways I always knew what I wanted. So I had a self-discipline regulator, almost. I didn't go too far, but I always pushed the boundaries of what I could do. And I was having a really good time. I was like, and I said, well, he explained it in a very simple way to me, but it was like, well, can I chant for these things? But it could have been anything. And he was like, Yeah, sure. And sometimes it was like, Well, I want to have a really good night in this, that, and the other.

And And he was like, See what happens? And I would. Sometimes I'd wake up with a really sore head and I'd be like, Oh. Okay, so words like integrity, wisdom, courage, compassion, things that were started to come filtered at a young age into my thinking through also the writings of Disaku Akada, who's my mentor. It was this perfect moment for me because I think I always wanted a roadmap. I think there's an art to living. For me, this philosophy is for me, it's a way for me to understand the art of living. I think it's really like the law of cause and effect. I think all religions mix, match, and meet. The central core of all practices, I think, is one of goodwill, I believe. But there was almost like science, cause and effect, what goes up must come down. It worked for me as as an idea. But it took me four years. I, Shackabooca, my sister, my best friend, and one day my best friend goes, Well, I'm going to go and get Gohanzen. Gohanzen is this scroll that we chant to. I was like, Wait, you're what? He said, I'm getting Gohanza.

I was like, and he'd been chanting for maybe, I don't know, six, eight months. I was like, Go on. I was like, Okay, I'll join you. I was like, I've been doing this for four years. I hadn't, or years, and I hadn't So I became a member of the SCI, which is the organization. And that was a bit later because I'd started chant. But I just used to chant it, and it kept me in rhythm. And that's really, for me, it kept me in a flow. It's like the rhythm of life. In a way, when I was doing my sculpture exam, I remember I was painting a whalebone and a lemon or a pineapple. It was a whalebone and some a piece of fruit. I was like, I'd look at it, I'd be painting. It was a 15-hour still life oil painting exam. I had a still life drawing exam as well as the sculpture. I'd go to the toilet, I'd be like, Come back, and we'd look. And finish the painting. I think, yeah, I got the highest grade, and then they called and said, We'd like to keep this work as the highest grade for the country.

This is the benchmark. I was like, I hadn't been doing art. I really tested it, and it was... I think the power, as you know, when you set an intention at such a young age, for young people today, I think having something that you can trust And I think I really admire. I think it's hard to have faith.

With the chanting and with the practice or the habit of that, what were some of the more philosophical lessons or principles that that became anchors or a compass in your life at that time? Were there certain teachings or lessons that stood out and you were like, Oh, these are going to form the principles that I'm going to live by?

Yeah, so many. Daisaku Akada, fortunately, has written extensively, and it's very accessible.

For those who don't know, please tell us who- So Daisaku Akada is my mentor.

He brought this practice from Japan around the world. It was in the '60s, I think, is when he left Japan and traveled first to Hawaii. The founding members of this practice, many of whom are wonderful Japanese women who have been living around the world. But he brought this practice to 193 countries, I think now. His mentor, Jose Toda, and before that, Machiguki, Jose Toda's mentor, Machiguki, in the '60s in Japan, brought this practice forward. And Daisaka Wakeda really made it accessible. He wrote extensively. He's written a book about... His book about his life is written from a Another perspective. It's him, but it's written as another person. Is that the person? If it's not the same, but if it's him, but it's not, he's got a pseudo name for who it is.

Yeah, right. A pseudo name.

But it's just I think there are so many ideas within the practice, but at its core, it's like, I just find that through chancing, you say, Nam, I devote myself in your ho'ringa k'yota, the mystic law of cause and effect, through the vibration of sound, and the sound is N'Ohorenge-kyo. N'ohorenge-kyo is the title of the Lotus sutra. As you may or may not know, but yes, Shackamuni, the Buddha, said, Oh, further. He He wrote sutras, meaning teachings. In the last eight years of his life, it was the Lotus sutra before he passed that he claimed as the teaching that would lead all living beings to enlightenment in this lifetime. That's why we chant Nammyo-renge-kyo, Myoh-renge-kyo, being also the title of the Lotus Sutra. Then I recite two chapters from the expedient means of the lifespan chapter from the Lotus sutra, which is part of this practice, which is beautifully Japanese because it traveled from India, through the silk Pas and landed in Japan. It was Nishindai Shonen, who was in 1270, 1270, around then. So you call that the 13th century. He propagated the teaching, and he brought this teaching to the world at that time.

He enshrined in sumi ink the Gohonzam, which is, as I said, that scroll that I chant to. He inscribed it with sumi ink because he gave... Because We recognize that humans needed something, a mandala, something to look at. And really, it's like polishing my mirror. Excuse my ADD, Brian, but it's like polishing my mirror. So I think about when I chant, I think about... In India, it was like a bronze mirror, and you polish it, and then you see your reflection, right? So the more I chant, the more I see my reflection, then I see the things, or it's like a tea leaf, a glass of tea, and I'm just staring away, and it comes to the surface, and you're do chanting. I think as you get older and I have two beautiful children, and you realize that it's... I think death is a big part of life, and it's something that some people can be very uncomfortable with or challenged by, and we're mystically here for such a short period of time relative to everything. This practice is constantly preparing you. It's the obstacles that you see in life, because of Eventually, the way that I've learned through my practice is that we're born, we grow old, we'll get sick, and we'll die.

And so will everyone around us. And hopefully, nobody we love too soon. But the truth is, you will lose. There is I think that when you can see the obstacles in your life, and it may be just waking up in the morning and getting a bill that you can't afford to pay for somebody, or when you take the obstacles in your life as the opportunities for your growth, when you reframe it as, Oh, wow, because the truth is, at least my truth through my practice, is that we're never not going to have obstacles. It's just how we see those obstacles and whether they become our benefit. It's like painting a canvas. When I broke my back or when I had near-death experiences, or experiences, I say, about a few interesting things in my life, or a heartbreak or a heart reveal or something that happened in school or things, those are the deep colors in your canvas. Otherwise, everything's just plain, nice, and you want those rich textures, or at least I do. I found that the practice has given me the pathway. And by the way, I intentionally sabotage myself. You know what I mean?

I mean, literally, I'm not chanting. I have charted because I'm like, I get in my own way. I'm far from like, I'm like, literally, and I'll get picked up on it by friends. I have David and my best friend Mark and Chris. Chris is in the show, actually. I'm called Guibbo. We all practice, and so we keep each other accountable a little bit as well. But as you get older, I think you probably experience in your own way, but it becomes so much harder just to keep that That faith in everything. But it's been for me that. I think I was such a young age to get it. I know people who were born into it because their parents were certain. And that's this fortune baby I call it. And that's such a blessing. But the Eight Winds is something that Nishida Shonen wrote this book. I didn't intend this to be a whole about person. I love it.

It's beautiful.

I'm just like, ripping. It's beautiful. I love it. He wrote The Go Show, and it's like, letters to his disciples. It's crazy because they're written in 1270s, something, then the 13th century, but they're so weirdly current. It's a bit because it's like there's a Samurai, Shingo Kingyo, who I See myself as maybe I was... I have this nice idea of who he was, but he had shared the practice with his master, and his master was giving him all these lands. Then all these other Samurai were jealous, and so they tore his character down and he was banished. Then he managed to come back because of his practice and communicate to his Lord, and it worked. But it's like, we know that story. It happens in every office or in every city, or at least we've heard it time and time again. They're so current and relative. Absolutely. The Eight Winds is a really great... There's one that I grew up. A wise man is not swayed by the Eight Winds. A praise censure, honor, disgrace, pleasure, suffering, prosperity, decline.

Wow, that is really powerful.

And that was one that just, for me, it was like... I think I've been swayed many a time.

How does one not get swayed by praise? And what was the second word?

Praise and censure, so the opposite.

Yes, exactly. How does one not get swayed?

I think as a young man, I feel I'm young at heart, so I can't... You look young, man. I'm going to tell you that. Some years ago, when I was what I feel like really in the eye of the storm and just my whole life was just like tabloid footer in some ways, it felt like constantly and anything I did, I think that was really challenging for me. I don't think I handled. I didn't have any major meltdowns, but I was really upset about how my character felt like it was being dragged. Actually, it's why I started an Instagram account, which I did some... I started very late in the game, but I only did it because actually my partner Katie had said, it's a really good way to gather the reins and create a narrative. Now I know it's like, I don't know how many people even really use. There's so many different new app things, media platforms. But in a way, it helped me to create my own narrative, at least, and to put messaging out that I felt was reflected my ideas and views, which obviously are mostly very centered around my practice, and Daisake Wakeda, really, his writing.

I love seeing you post about Daisake Wakeda.

He says someone he has- Phenomenal. Well, beautiful things. My practice definitely helped me with that. It was definitely anchoring. I think I got very good at hiding, which I would never encourage. But in a way, I got very I'm good at putting a hat on and moving through the world without. If I could go back, I would probably say to that kid, You know what? Shine it, bro. You're here to make mistakes. If they're public or private, they're the mistakes that you will... That's that deep purple in your canvas. It's not really how you go down, it's how you get up. Trust your heart. Trust that you're in the flow and That's something that I don't think I had a lot of as a kid. As you move on, you just go, Well, the noise just eventually subsides. Now I have a perspective on it just from years, and I'm like, It's helped to know. But it was definitely through chanting that I think in my practice and friends and the community that I had around me at the time. Also being on the road and working so much, I think I just didn't... Most of it was just like, hardly, didn't really look at it, didn't really pay attention.

Hearing you say that, what's beautiful is that it often feels like so many of these lessons can only be lived and understood when they're lived, but it's helpful to know the lesson you're learning and how it fits in. It's almost like you had to go through that. You couldn't have asked yourself to deal with it better or do better at the time. No, But the fact that you had this lesson, philosophy, practice to guide you.

Yeah, fall back on. Yeah, fall back on. To understand, give me perspective. For sure, that was a massive blessing.

When you're talking When you're talking about fears and your first fear all the way through to this, obviously, when you watch the show, there's this feeling of the external fear, right? Like the idea of jumping out of a plane, the idea of rock climbing, all of these things are naturally inherently scary. What's the internal fear when you're doing it? Like, what is the dialog that's going on? Because obviously you're quite a reflective, thoughtful individual. What's really the fear? Because it obviously isn't jumping out of the plane for you.

Yeah. I think it comes back to trust and faith and self-worth. There are protocols that you follow. All of these adrenaline junkie athletes that you see maybe posting a 15-second clip on a social media page have spent their lives and potentially weeks, days, years, hours to perfect whatever it's you're seeing for a 15-second moment. Luke Akins jumped from the stratosphere without a parachute, landing in a net. Camilla Jibril, who was my free diving coach, along with Will Trubich, who runs this vertical blue competition in the Bahamas, where I was diving. Supreme athletes who... Camilla has swam to... She's the Mexican world record holder of like 80 plus meters now. I think I got to 37 meters in about the four days, which was like 100. I was really struggling because of my mask. I wish I'd not worn a mask. I wish I'd just had the other look. I wish I'd thought that through, but I had some issues with equalizing. But and or Mo Beck, who's this adaptive climber, who just was born with one hand and started climbing as a child and just is the woman in her field doing what she does.

It's like a glass hot. It's just overflowing. These people are just overflowing. But what it is, is that they are experts, and it is a life choice, almost. In a way, people have said to me, Oh, have you gone back to doing the wingsuiting? I'm like, I really can't wait to do that. But it's not something you just dip in and out of. It's a real life It's a lifestyle choice, and it's a commitment, and it's something that gives you excellence. Trusting in that moment, that everything you... Trusting myself. For me, it was about becoming capable in a way, learning to follow the protocols, learning to be present enough to take on board everything that's being told to me so that I can apply it to the moment that I'm in. When I'm in the plane, I'm about to jump, and I'm really... I No. I think, to be fair, I think the climbing... I got such potty mouth on the climbing because I was so frustrated and terrified by the gear, by the knots, by whether I tied it right or whether the rope was going to hold me or whether I was going to...

And mostly because actually I had Mo's life in my hands. But it was, I think, becoming capable and having that education and then being accountable for myself. So in the moment where the fear is really kicking in. It's just trusting. Coming back to what everything I've learned from my practice was trusting your life, having faith in your life. I think faith is so important, and I think misguided faith is sometimes so challenging for us as a species because it's led to so much heartbreak and conflict. But actually, I really admire people faith because most people of faith, if it's not misguided, are really doing everything they can. Because it's my Buddhist practice, we try to be respectful of all faith. I feel like I know my path is the right one. I wish everyone would join me on this, but I totally respect that everybody has their path. I think that's what it comes down, right respect. It's a bit of The whole show was a bit of a human experiment for me. I think the experiment and the lessons that I continually learned was a bit of self-respect, becoming capable, trusting my life, and trusting that this was part of an important and necessary part of my life.

After all, I'd chosen to do it. I could find myself at times in these super-challenging, physically-challenging moments, mentally, physically, and emotionally. They were all totally different. Wingsuiting just was super-unnatural to jump off a plane. Then I think What Luke said to me was that I'm probably the first person to have jumped at 26 jumps. So 25 jumps, I got my A license for skydiving, and my 26 jump was in a wingsuit. But he had me on this trajectory, but he knew from what he was watching, and we were working every day for a few, not even that long, but he knew that I was capable to do it. So the free diving, I just didn't know if I was going to come back up. I was like, Wait, what? What if I... Because I had, and I think I was emotionally really challenged by this idea, respecting my life, treasuring my life, because I think in some ways in my youth, treasuring my life, valuing my life, understanding the value of life, and being grateful for it in a very profound way. I think I have a stadium of angels or Buddha's or however, whoever you want to call them.

And we're climbing. It was like, I'd find myself in these moments, as I said, I'd be like, I'm really having a hard time here. I had one of my assistants who became a producing partner who was working with for so long, who knew me so well, but I would just be freaking out. She could see I was freaking out, but I was freaking out about something like, Why am I wearing this T-shirt? What does this T-shirt mean? You know what I mean? It was It's so interesting how the mind, right? It's like you become, you know what I mean? Instead of just getting in, I became very... I was trying to control. Control the environment, control the things because I felt so out of control. This T-shirt is not the right T-shirt or whatever it might be. It was like for me, it could have been anything, but it was like because I needed to control whatever I had on me because I felt so out of control in some ways. It was a human. I felt like it was a human experiment, honestly. I was like, How much does it take for me to crack?

How much pressure before I... And what does that look like in some ways? But in a way, that was the... I kept coming back to,. What is meant for you is not going to go away. But this also was my first time in an unscripted as well, right? Yeah. I think because of the nature of my upbringing dyslexia and education that was such a challenge, although I got it all, did it all, is just trusting my heart, right? You're trusting your experience. I mean, that's You've done so well. You're able to communicate from the heart, listen, be present, and you know what I mean? And come in with the points that are like, Oh, wow, you're actually absorbing and taking that on. And I think... And sharing and putting a message out. But it's sometimes hard for people, especially, I think, when you're younger.

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is an NAACP and Webby award-winning podcast dedicated to all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help Black women decipher how their past inform who they are today and use that information to decide who they want to be moving forward. We chat about things like how to establish routines that center self-care, what burnout looks and feels like, and defining what aspects of our lives are making us happy and what parts are holding us back. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you Get your podcast. Take good care, and we'll see you there. Do you lay awake scrolling at bedtime, or awake in the middle of the night and struggle to fall back to sleep? Start sleeping better tonight. I'm Katherine Nikolai, and my podcast, Nothing Much Happens Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep, has helped millions of people to get consistent deep sleep.

I tell family-friendly bedtime stories that train you to drift off and return to sleep quickly, and I use a few sleep-inducing techniques along the way that have many users asleep within the first three minutes. I hear from listeners every day who have suffered for years with insomnia, anxiety at night time, and just plain old busy brain who are now getting a full night's sleep every night. I call on my 20 years of experience as a yoga and meditation teacher to create a soft landing place where you can feel safe and relaxed and get excellent sleep. Listen to Nothing Much Happens Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep with Katherine Nikolai on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Jay Shetty, and on my podcast, On Purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah.

Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it.

Kobe Bryant.

The results really matter. It's the figuring out that matters.

Kevin Hart. It's not about us as a generation at this point.

It's about us trying our best to create change.

Lewis Hamilton.

That's for me been taking that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time, I wasn't kind to myself.

And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in ours. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Join the journey soon. Yeah, I mean, I think When I'm listening to you right now- These adaptions are great.

My mind is firing. I'm like, I'm going to take more of this.

Good. I'm glad. We'll get you another. Are you finished with that one? Do you want another? When I'm listening to you right now, and I really appreciate you going there because, of course, the external is hard, but I love I love how you boiled it down to that idea of trying to control the little you think you can control in the midst of the fact that you can't control any of this. It's interesting how that is such a great metaphor for life. Somehow, yeah. Because We're all trying to control everything we can control and what we can't control, not recognizing that so much is outside of our control. And that makes us in life feel helpless, and it can often make us retreat and hide and disappear. But when you're climbing When you're climbing a mountain, you can't disappear. You can't retreat from that. It's almost like you have to sit in that discomfort and you have to sit with that emotion, which is actually what real life is demanding of us. But we find a way to hide it, push it away, deal with it. And so it's the most physical, real way. I remember when, and this is what I think, hopefully, the show will encourage people to do, we all have something that's uncomfortable for us, whether it's internal or external.

And I think everyone needs a friend who encourages them to do some extreme sports now and again. My wife needs less encouragement than I do. As life has gone on, I've become a bit more reserved. And I had a friend a couple of years ago who made me do sky skydiving who made me do crazy things with him. And I was really grateful for that because it made me realize how many blocks I had up here that I was unaware of. I thought I'd conquered so many blocks, but there were still so much lack of trust and so There was a lack of that feeling of, oh, actually, I can sit in discomfort. I was almost trying to get away from discomfort because at one point in my life, I'd put myself through so much of it. I now just wanted to be in a comfortable space, which is fair. Sure. But one thing you say in the docuseries, in the beginning was this idea of, you say, being on the edge makes me feel most alive. But then at the same time, I see you as someone who really values the little things day to day.

And obviously with your Buddhist practice, is mindful and present. How do you reconcile the two? Because if you're feeling all this adrenaline in this extreme sport and that makes you feel alive, but then how do you also feel alive in the tiny moments of maybe being with your kids or being with Blue as your beautiful dog, we just would now. Thank you.

I think it's such good question. I think two things, and I want to come back to that question, but I think in a way, what are the parts of the show is like, what What does it take for me to be remarkably present? Look, I'm one of the most privileged people I consider myself. The experiences that I've had in the world, in life, I feel just so grateful all the time. I I woke up feeling grateful, and I feel that partly that's my practice to give them the opportunity. But for some people, it's like, look, just getting up from the couch and going to the kitchen, what does it take for them to do that? I know through COVID, which was the idea, it was like, what does it take for that person just to go to the park, just step outside, take your shoes off, socks off, stand in the grass and look at the trees. That may be all it takes, but it may be so challenging for that person. Yes, for me, when I was raw docking it with all my ADD and just things happening, I was just in it. I say that because when I say raw docking, I was just like, I've subsequently found a really amazing pep Side, which is fantastic.

It's helped me really connect my thoughts at times because sometimes it's really disjointed. But in a way, I love that about my thinking because it is sporadic. But for some people, as I said, the hope for the show for me was like, it took For me, who arguably throughout my life has really loved the thrill. If I'm going really fast, either I'm either on a motorcycle or in a car or whatever it may be, I feel like I'm more focused. I'm more likely to have an accident at 30 miles an hour than I am at 60 miles an hour because I'm just... I switch into someone other mode. It's true for everything I've done in my life. If it's really up against me, then I'm going to step up in a whole other way. For example, Lord of the Rings, where I was like, my first movie, really. I'm with Ian Mckellen and Ian Holmes and Christopher Lee and Hugo Mortensen and even Elijah, who I'd seen in movies and these amazing actors, all of whom had so much experience. It was an amazing gift. But it was also like, okay, step up, and the blessing of that.

I think you take that high of these insane things that you're doing. But it's all really Sometimes I can wake up in the morning and I just can't figure out even which way to go. I can feel like, Wait, what? I'm so grateful, but wait, what am I? My brain is trying to bring it online, and it can be really overwhelming in terms of... So it's like, back to chance, back to breath, back to presence, back to stillness, back to gratitude, back to like... I had this... I think I had this really remarkable plant journey, medicine journey. I set an intention around the feminine because we touched on my mother briefly and I was like, My mother gave me this, which is wonderful and loved me. I and was in boarding school at the age of four. She didn't really have a full sense of what nurture and things was. But she was so loved, is and remains so loving. A great opportunity for me to continue to grow and evolve. But I set an intention before I was like... Because I wanted to ask Katie to marry me, and I was like, I just need to check in.

I'd never done this particular I was like, I want to just... I flew somewhere to meet this, and I'd set this intention around the feminine. Basically, the three points that came out, I was like, Am I clean? Am I good here? Can I do move forward with this? This because it's important to me to know that I'm clear. It's with the eye up. You get this feeling of, and somebody had explained to me that you have this amazing feminine an energy coming at you. I think you're supposed to do three cups, and I took five. Well, I wanted to have this... I was just waiting. I was there, and I didn't... I was just on a couch with this amazing room of musicians and this wonderful guide. He just looked at me at 6:00 in the morning, and he had been journeying with me, and he was like, You want more? I was like, One more. Then I had this sensation of lightness. I think basically it's like our minds. You're exploring aspects of your mind, the neuropathways that you just haven't looked at. You understand that it's the map of your mind, right? And you've disconnected your ego enough to be humble enough to take on.

And this message was, well, first of all, just be grateful. Look at your life, right? Second of all, you don't have an issue with women. Look at your life, wonderful women in your life. And even if there are aspects of women in your life that you have, it's all She'll be in part of your evolution. But maybe the feminine in you, it was like, so maybe you could nurture a bit more of the feminine in you. I was like, okay. But it was like, nurture. I get the creative, artistic side, the Just pondering and poetical and things that I hadn't. But the last one that I remember, it was like, whenever you're with somebody, it may be the last time you see them again. You just don't know. So make it great. What have you got to lose? You may never see this person again. We don't know. Life is like, you don't know. So just make it great. Because at a young age, I'd had a real challenge. I'd have people come at me consistently, and I'd be like, I'd be in whatever mental state or moment that I was in. Sometimes I'm just like...

All they want is this moment, and it's so easy for me to just go, Hey, yeah, photo, sure. Yeah, here No problem. And then carry on. Sometimes it was just like... It felt like almost acid because I was just... What it represented at a different time in my life was a restriction, and I wanted to feel free. But I think that moment of that thing for me was like, you may never see this person again. I don't know. Life is not built like that. So just make it great. It's not hard, right? Or at least leave it with that. So I think that was the... Did I answer the question?

Yeah, no. I mean, you gave me so much more to unpack that. I love it. I mean, on that point, I do think if we lived in a world where you genuinely believed that any moment with anyone could be your last. The way you'd speak to them, the way you'd look at them, the way you'd listen to them would just transform. I'm sure you have friends. I have friends who have lost parents, partners, people, and they all regret their last conversation with them because it was conflict, or it was an argument, or it was a debate that they didn't need to have.

They've been in conflict, who knows? Yeah.

And they didn't know that that was going to be the last time. And I've spoken to friends who've held that for so much longer because it becomes such a hard release to know that you would have said something differently. Might have done it differently. Might have I'm going to say it differently. But going back to what was revealed to you and even that, I look at relationships as such a area where so many of our fears are brought to the surface. I found this with my and wife. We've been together for 11 years and married for eight. What's the secret? It's this. It's being comfortable with the idea that she is also the deepest mirror I'll ever have. Because no one in the world sees all of my flaws, all of my mistakes, all the moments when I'm not perfect. I always joke about how my wife knows whether I meditate this morning or not. No one else does, but my wife knows. My wife knows whether it was quality or whether it's distracted. My wife knows whether I left my socks on the floor, whatever, just whether it's silly or deep, she is in a position.

And when your partner doesn't abuse that authority and doesn't use it as a form of control, but actually reflects back some care and compassion, it can be a really... It's almost like you can't grow without it. What scared you about relationships? And like you said, you had no problem with women. That wasn't a thing. But what was revealed to you in your relationship? What's been revealed to you in your relationship is a better question.

I think I'm constantly learning to let go. Because anything that I try to hold on to, whether it's good or bad, doesn't serve me. Not in a relationship, and it doesn't really serve either of us. And that's really hard to keep letting go and to keep letting her go. The idea of... Because I think when you're in a deeply loving, committed relationship you want to control or own or have. Even just letting go of ideas of how things should be or the idea of what What intimacy or intimate moments are to you versus them or how, whatever it may be, because you've chosen that person, you're on a journey with that person, you're going to learn this lesson. And if you've chosen that person, then that's the person you're going to learn that lesson with. That's the opportunity, right?

That's real. Yeah, That really resonates. I feel like that's why we'd rather let go of the person and have a new six month period with someone new because you don't have to let go in that six months. That six months is almost full of holding on and every idea and every hope and possibility remains intact. You don't have to dismantle it or question it or break it down. But you are so right that the amount of misconceptions I've had to let go of as we spend more time together.

I think it's going to change every day, right? Absolutely. It's like every day you choose, I choose you. Because also your wife is changing, right? Seven years from now, she's going to be a completely different human. You have no idea, right? You clearly have been around each other and you do probably know, have a sense, but we don't know. You don't know. It's the same thing as like, I may never see that person again. Every day, you may never see that version of that again, whatever it may be. But we're just... I'm forced. I seize the opportunity every day to grow, and As you see from the show, I'll never choose the easy path. It's just not who I am. In some ways, my relationship is the greatest opportunity for my continual growth. I know we both see it that way. So that's how we grow, and we do. She will not... She'll hold me accountable, and I'll do the same. Sometimes you You'll be confronted by your own self. I think trust, right? Trusting your path, your journey, your faith, that this is what's meant for you. Then the universe will take care of the rest and making mistakes and going, Okay, I did that.

Sorry. I'm like, there's no... I think I've seen how learning more, the mistakes. I think very early on in life, actually, weirdly, I didn't enjoy making mistakes. Does anybody? I don't know. Maybe some people really do, but I wasn't comfortable with It would be hard to find someone who injured making mistakes. And yet anyone, any sage or worthy will tell you it's only through mistakes that you grow, right? So it's like going, okay, that's where the rich stuff is. That's where you're going to. So I just try to keep growing and accepting.

How does it feel to introduce your Buddhist practices and teachings to the kids? How does that work? I'm fascinated by- Well, yeah.

I say, Nami, are you going to kill today? Sometimes on the other side of the world, on a movie, she'll be like, Nami, are you going to kill today? I think, and Flynn chanted, I did the same with him. Flynn's mother has a beautiful faith in life, I think, and I really respect it, and I don't challenge any of the things, his views, that he's obviously imbued through his mother. We love to go on walks. I love to go on walks with my son, and we talk a lot. I try to... At different stages, look, he's 13 now, so it's almost like dad is getting pushed aside. I know what that feels like. I was the same. I try not to take it personally, and I miss him. I'm like, I just text him, I love him, and I miss him. But we have these wonderful walks and talks, and I just throughout whatever we're saying, I try to keep reinforcing just the undercurrent philosophy of thinking of my practice, which is just, are you respecting? If there is that kid in class who's not, are you supporting that kid that's not getting the support?

Because that's where you'll find the richness, right? Because I know that's in his heart as well. I see it. It's funny. He said to me, Dad, you know what? I'm really good at just bluffing. But this is him at 13, flexing a bit in this way of trying to kick. He was like, Yeah, but, dad, I just knew that would be the thing that people would appreciate. I'm like, Good. Well, just keep working that then. Because even if your thinking will try and make you say you're going to do, just keep working that. Even if you think it's like you're putting on a show, fake it till you make it. You know what I mean? Just keep doing that. Just keep trying to do the thing, and eventually you'll start to realize what the right thing is. But I love to walk and talk with him, and I just don't overwhelm him with it. Because in my faith, I believe by saying, Nam, mioho, rengue, kyo.

Say to me, Nam, mioho, mioho, mioho, mioho, renge, renge, kyo.

Nam, mioho, renge, kyo.

Nam, mioho, renge, kyo.

So by saying this once, you never have to say it again. You've protected seven generations in your past, seven generations in your future.

Thank you for that gif. That's beautiful.

So I believe that. Deeply believe that. Sometimes I will just walk up to somebody and say, Just say Nam, mioho, renge, kyo. Just once. And I'll tell them that, and then I'll walk away, whatever. And it'd be like, I believe that. It's like finding a needle in the high of the haste there. So you never have to do it again. You've done it seven generations before seven years.

I'll see it every time I see you now.

Good. If it was something that If it resonated with you at the time or at the moment, then great. I encourage people to do that. I'm like, Well, this is how you do it. It's not a meditational process. Like a meditation, I do as well. I have a meditation, TM practice. But for me, it's like yoga for the mind. It's like when I'm really stressed out, I feel like I have too much coffee.

Do you ever get really stressed out? You seem so chill.

No. I'm sitting here opposite Jay Shetty. Do you want me to show you the other side of me? No, I mean, you'll see the climbing episode. You'll see the-Yeah, I haven't got there. You'll see the party mouth. No, I'm like a red line. Mostly, I can be in the red. And that's something that I just try to navigate. But I like that. I embrace it. I accept it. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? I can be on in that space. It's like the difference between driving at 30 or 60. It's like, obviously, God forbid, you want to I observe the speed limit because there are children and things. But I know what... So sometimes I can be really intense, emotionally. How have you accepted the parts of yourself that most of us judge, criticize, or feel uncomfortable?

Granted, So that they're not affecting other people.

Aside from Shant'Namio Ngekeo. I think because of that practice, I'm constantly looking at that. But I think it's time, honestly, and I think it's experience. Because the experiences have taught me that shame is not my friend. Guilt, shame. If you spend too much time in that negative thought pattern, we're light energy. We're like little planets, right? But if you broke our bodies down, I was having this conversation with somebody who was giving me a massage the other night. She's an amazing woman. And she was like, But we're like little galaxies. If you actually dissolved us, the trillions and billions of cells and everything, it's like a little galaxy. So we're all little galaxies going around the planet, right? In a way. So all of that energy, which, as you know and talked about many times, it's whatever you're saying, you become, right? As we all know, all these old adages are so true. So it's not like... So, yeah, I think for me, the shame game doesn't I don't want to receive it from anyone. I had this amazing experience, and I went six years ago, maybe seven years ago now, seven years ago, more than seven years ago, nearly eight years ago.

I went to the Hoffmann Institute, which is this wonderful-Oh, beautiful. Yes. It was... I'd been seeing Katie for a year and I'd broken up, and then we'd... No, we hadn't actually. We'd broken up yet. I'd been seeing her for a little while, and then we had broken up, and we got back together. The young love, weirdness of trying to find things. But I'd been triggered into this really unique pattern of behavior that I felt I'd inherited from my mom. This thing of like, See me? I'm here with my mom. I'm over here. You know what I mean? Trying to get the attention. I was like, Oh, one of the worst years internally I can ever remember because I felt like I was playing a part instead of being a part. Because I had so many feelings, and I was in water that was unchartet. A dear friend of mine, Buddhist, had an actor friend from New York, had suggested that I do this two years ago, and I hadn't picked up on it. James Lesteen, this amazing actor, human, just wonderful person. I was like, I remembered when I We'd had this break up and I'd remembered I'd taken my passport, left everything else, and walked into New York because we'd been in New York.

And then I was like, got on a plane home. But before I got on a plane home, I went to his house because it was five in the morning when we'd have this rip-roaring argument. And I was like, took my passport and walked out the door and I was like... And he had talked about it. And so I did this course, and I left with these three thinking. And it was a wonderful week where you don't have your phone, you don't have the email. So you have no connection to the outside world, really. Obviously, I was me, but I had this... Nobody's there for that. It's really people are on their own. They're all in their own form of need. I was wearing a name tag. It was my childhood name or whatever. Then I did seven days of, I guess, a group therapy, and it felt like three years of therapy in seven days in a way. They said, You're on this beautiful journey through these seven days where you have a thanks Thanksgiving dinner, a Christmas dinner, a birthday, and a whole thing. It's beautiful the way it's constructed. I came out with this thinking, and I talked to James at that time about this as well, of feeling safe, seen, and celebrated.

I want to feel safe in terms of my relationship. With self first, if I look in the mirror, I feel safe. Do I feel safe with you today? Do I feel seen by you? Am I observing myself? And do I feel celebrated? But really, it's for the people in my life. Do I feel safe with this person? Do I feel seen by this person? Am I feeling celebrated? Can I do that for them? Obviously, it's a mirror. If I'm feeling that way, then you're good. It's a green light. If I'm not, then I'm going to just step back, take pause until I can feel that way. If I can't feel that way, then maybe life in the universe will take us on different traject. But whilst I feel that way, so Safe, Seen, and Celebrated was something that really made me go. I came back into my life and into my relationship after this And then I said, We separated. It was interesting.

And I was like, Okay, this is what's meant.

This is some years ago now. Yeah. But this stickiness that we had, this connection. And she was never really not a part of my thoughts. And she would reach out in weird ways, like Instagram or whatever, and I'd be like, processing. Then I made a decision because I had this safe scene celebrated thing, not to see her unless she would... Then she actually did this at this as well and had an amazing experience herself. I think it created a foundation. We're constantly bouncing off this thing. Sometimes the foundation is really rocky. Of course. Sometimes I don't know. I'm like, Is the universe, are we still growing? I gave her this picture of a tree, and it was this beautiful... I bought it in India, I think, but it was these two trees growing as one. I was like, This is what it should be. As long as we can... The branches can go all over the place. But the roots and the base of the tree is the trunk is growing together. It's the pillars of the temple, right? You need them to stand strong together so that you can hold that. But it's been a...

Yeah.

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That's great criteria, though. I like that. Safe scene and celebrated. It's like a beautiful way of Checking and connecting wavelength. The visual you just painted right now of the two trees feels perfect. That visual just resonated so strongly.

Sometimes people are not up for that as well, though. No. Sometimes they're not ready for that. It can be really overwhelming. It can be really overwhelming. All of your good intention, all of your desire for the greatest outcome can be super intimidating and overwhelming, depending on whether your wife is ready in In that day, in that moment. As we know from the remarkable... I had this, I thought I was like, when I had Daisy, my daughter, I was like, I feel like every man should have a daughter before they get married in a way. Because it's like you see every emotion under the sun in a split second, and it's like, and you have nothing but love because you're there. There's no judgment. I'm just like, marveling at her explosion of emotion. And she was like, No, Daddy, no, dad, mommy, I want that. And I'll be like, if I'd been in a partner, a reflection of a partner doing that could have really messed me up at different times in my life. Wait, what? See me? Look at me. I'm over here, mommy, I'm over here, whatever it may be, our patterns from childhood, whatever that may be.

And I'm like, oh. In a way, it's like, so I can have those with a powerful human that I've chosen in some ways every day. It's like, got to keep leveling up and trying and making mistakes and going, okay, no, that didn't work. I'm I got to do this, and that's, no, don't do that. But sometimes it's very interesting, isn't it? I think the masculine in relation to the feminine, My mind map again. I'd set an intention around it. I was like, Oh, no, it's not women. It's the feminine within you. But in this world that we live in, it's like trying to find the right level because it's not obvious. I think people are always, How do you have the right balance?

It's like sometimes Sometimes you're just really overly edgy.

Sometimes you can be that. You can hold that big space because in your mind, you're capable. But I think it's just choosing, right? You just keep choosing. You choose life and you choose to go on a journey, and you choose to keep it real, and you choose to, for me, at least.

Yeah, I feel what you said about... For me, my sister is four and a half years younger than me or something, and I feel like I remember holding her when she was born. Last year, I got to walk her down the aisle at her wedding. My nickname for my sister is Kid because I've treated her like my daughter since she was born. And she's always felt that way to me. You're so right. My wife will always say to me, Gosh, when you're around your sister, you're just completely different. It's that fatherly, brotherly- Does she like that, though?

My sister? No, your wife.

She finds it adorable. She finds it adorable.

She's like, Lean into that more. Is that not really? Not so much? It's just like, no.

She finds that adorable, but she sees what capacity I have for tolerance and for what you're saying, being that bigger holding space.

When you have your own daughter.

When you have it for that love. And you're so right that when you've been able to experience that, it's so much easier to understand. I always feel like I was raised by my mom and tried to raise my sister the best as I could. And it was almost like that's made me a better husband than I would have been. Because I had a different experience with women that I wouldn't have had if I didn't have a younger sister and had a younger brother or whatever it may be. And so that resonates very strongly. But also this idea of I've seen myself act with my wife, with the people I love in a way that I don't like at all. And I've seen myself act in the best way possible. And I'll oscillate between the two depending on where I'm at on any given day. And it's what you said earlier, that it takes two It takes two people to be able to let go. It takes two people to be able to forgive. It takes two people to be able to not overamplify or underreact or overreact. And you're constantly playing in that space. If you want a loyal, committed, long term relationship, which has very different positives than a short, easy, quick moment.

Quick fix, yeah. Yeah. And it's almost like, it's what you said. It's choosing what you want.

Once you decide, we have that idea in my practice. Once It's like, and Sensei discusses, once you decide, your whole world will move in that direction. Once you decide, you know what I mean? Everything is set up for the universe to support that decision, but you must decide whatever it may be. And then if the wheels fall off along the way, you realize that you've decided and there are mistakes, but then you set about fixing. I wrote this like a mission statement when I first I met her because I wanted to try to articulate all these crazy feelings that I was having at the time, which was like a reveal that I hadn't had in a long time in somehow. One of the things that I said in this letter I wrote her was, We're going to bring our little kids out, our inner child. We're going to bring her out, and I'll duke it out with you as much as you like, so long as you promise to keep getting up. Because it's like, if we don't get up, I need to know that you'll duke it out, I'll duke it out, but that we'll get up.

Because it doesn't matter about... You It's going to go down. People are going to make mistakes. Things are going to happen. Life is set for that. It's not meant to be. The opportunities, as we said at the beginning, for growth, don't come through an easy path. They come. They're not when everything's going great. It's when the shit's hit the fan, right? And that's when... So I feel like I'm constantly like, When's the next one? Yeah. Next lesson. When's the next one coming? How What humility do I need to learn today? Or what do I need to do? And what choices have I made that have led to this? And how am I going to own that?

What's the difference? What's the difference with that? Because I resonate with that. I always say to people that when things are going bad, bad, work hard. And when things are going good, work harder. You're always pushing yourself to learn, grow, evolve more when actually things are good. Because a lot of us, we do the opposite. When things are good, we get complacent, we get lost. What is the difference for you between that mindset getting exhausting versus energizing? Because I think a lot of people would say, Gosh, if I'm always having to figure out what to learn and what message from the universe and my partner, that's exhausting. Yeah. But it seems like you're energized by that, which is what you see in the show. You're energized by the idea that there's more to learn. What's the difference? What have you found? How are you able to sustain that level of wanting to evolve and grow?

I think I just came in that way, bro.

That's just how you're built.

I think I came in that way. I think we all come in different, right? When I reflect on all of the opportunities for growth in my life, they all reinforce this idea that this is what I need to learn at this time, right? In retrospect, when you're younger and in that moment of crisis, whatever that may be. And listen, I didn't have a mobile phone until I was 20, right? But there is a window of time in my life which is almost like a void because of the immense pressure and experience that life was throwing at me at such a rapid pace that I literally can... Like there are blacks, almost feel like blanks. My friend, best friends will go, remember when we went to Japan on that press, and I was like, We went to Japan together? I'm like, Yeah. Okay. But yeah, I think that's it. That makes sense. I think saying at a young age with with a practice like mine. It helped me as well to recognize. It's constantly reinforcing this idea of opportunities through obstacles or opportunities. Even when you're in it and it's nightmares. Oh, these exams, this thing, this boyfriend or this girlfriend or this situation.

I think it's always simplify as well, steady. Life is, at least my experience is, I love the high octane, and I've been at that depth. I love the depth as well. But when I'm steady, when I just come back to the simple, simplify, because sometimes you just need a walk. You know what I mean? You just need to go outdoors. Sometimes you just need to look at the sky, take a deep breath. Sometimes it's just... And it's a few little touchstones that you can create for yourself so that you have tools, right? Create your own toolbox. I think that's what I got from Just so many different things, whether it's Hoffmann or a plant journey.

Yeah, so many.

Or an encounter with somebody important or my relationship to die, sacrifice, or my mentor. I think it's also we're wired. We're all wired differently. But if you keep leaning into that area and not being afraid to lean into the discomfort of life, then that's what the show is giving you. You're leaning into the discomfort, you get the benefit, right? And again, that might just be getting up from your couch, turning off the TV, or not scrolling on your phone, or just deleting that app for 24 hours so that you're just not being ruled by something outside of yourself. I think in this new age, we've been in the age of the Internet. I think in this new age of AI, which we're all there's so much anxiety and nervousness around. And I saw Sam Altman speak about some of this stuff, and I thought it was so interesting. But I think my takeaway from what he had said and what I think is true for my life and what I can sense is discipline, self-discipline, because it's a choice to pick up your phone. It's a choice to get lost in your phone. It's a choice to keep scrolling, or you could choose to put it down and step outside and simplify, do that meditation, do that yoga class.

It's all choices, right? But I think that if as and when we see this new chapter of life, it's going to be totally different. My son, your children, when you come into the world, they're not going to know a world without superintelligence. They're just not going to know that. My son doesn't know a world without the Internet. How has that impacted his life? I do.

Yeah, so do I.

But they're not going to know a world without superintelligence. And it's going to bring A remarkable benefit to our lives. No doubt, I'm sure. Health, healing, access, life. But it's like those old adages, like devil's hands, idol hands on the devil's playground. So I keep thinking What's the discipline I'm going to create, the routines and disciplines to create and keep working at so that I don't slip off into that because I do it. I can find myself just going, and I I love my algorithm, by the way. It will send me all of your things and other people's... And messaging around... It's definitely listening to me. Messaging around, Oh, this relationship person is talking about fantastic things. And I'm like, Oh, That would be great for the world to see or whatever. Or whatever it may be. It's not all bad, but it is, I think, the discipline, the self-mastery of discipline. Self-discipline and self-mastery to know- The one skill needed. Is the one that will We'll protect. Because if you're like, what do they call them in games where it's like non-player, MPC, is it? Mpc, yeah. We can all become those. We can all just switch off and turn on our autopilot and just be like, because you don't want to because it's overwhelming.

It's overwhelming. You're overwhelmed by the consistent. If you keep looking at the news, you're just going to be overwhelmed. It's wild. It's wild. I have so many friends who are on both sides of conflicts. You can just be overwhelmed.

That is where we're at, I think. I think so, yeah. We're overwhelmed, we're overconsuming, we'reWe're over exposed.

We see and hear and understand. We get access to so much more information than we need. And then we continue to get more. And then what's true, what's not true.

It's a lot. And that's why it's a lot. That's where it's a lot. That's where if anyone's not feeling disciplined or struggling, there's a lot of compassion and empathy.

It's so hard. Show me a human. I'll show you anyone, right? And that's true of relationships, right? I think one of the things Laird and Gabby Hamilton were a big part of my life at a period in my life a few years ago where I was separated from my partner, Flynn's mom. I was living on my own in Malibu, and They were such a really beautiful couple, the way I learned so much from seeing how they interacted. I always appreciate that. I took that away with me. But I think it's like, I respect couples more than anything else, almost, now today, somehow. As well when we talk about relationship, because it's the people that have gone, they're continuing to choose and not to upgrade or think they're upgrading or that the grass is greener because we can all do that. Of course. Maybe we will. And there's no judgment there either, too. By the way, no judgment on any of it. But personally, I go, Oh, wow. I admire that because it's not easy, man. Because as people, as we age and change, we're all being told that you can get this new handbag that will go with this new car, or you can get this new watch and this new thing, and you're just going to keep in.

And I love a shiny object. How have you managed to maintain your Buddhist practice and philosophy in Hollywood?

Because I imagine that- Dude, that Buddhist philosophy and products has maintained, has been my anchor.

I haven't maintained it. It's maintained me. It's held me. I really feel like it's my super cape. You can tell that. It's my cape.

It's obvious.

It's my superpower, and it's available to anyone. But I got it at a young age, and I'm like, it's my wings, it's my shield, it's my wisdom, it's my courage, it's my compassion. If I just use it, and sometimes I There are days I won't chant, and I'm like, I mean, look, I'm years and years into this. I feel that it's never gone far from me. But I know when I'm not, I'm like, Wait, what's going on? Often it's been when I've been in a relationship, by the way. Often I've been in a relationship and I don't. I was like, Wait, what? Why? Why is that? Why am I not when I'm... Because what's being so Yeah, but it was literally my- I can feel it.

It's very obvious. It's very evident from the show and today. It's very real in your veins. What's something you feel you're being called right now? What's the fear you're being called to overcome right now? The lesson that you're being questioned. I sat with this question last year, and it was really interesting for me in my own meditation. It was revealed to me that if I really want to serve and have the impact that I to have, that I'll have to be okay with dealing with more stress, pain, external...

Energy coming at you. Energy coming at you. To overcome so that you can paint a bigger canvas and have a bigger- Correct, but it will require that.

That was a very interesting, almost request or question that I was hearing from the universe or from God or from my own spiritual practice of, this is what's required of you? Are you ready for it? Are you okay? What have you heard or felt that you are being... What fear are you being asked to overcome or what lesson are you being asked to learn right now? If anything comes to mind. Because you've conquered so many fears in the show and gone When you're going to the edge. What's an edge that is being requested of you?

I think that our deepest fears, they often lie in in areas unknown to us, even in our subconscious. Some of the deepest fears I have are related to A historical pattern of behavioral thinking, which I don't know that I was even conscious of. I've inherited, and possibly in my mind, because of my practice faith, generationally, lifetimes, previous lifetimes of thinking. Because that's how I live my life for the next life. That's how I'm looking at it now. I'm living for the next one. It's like the Egyptians with the temples. It's like they were doing that because it was like... If I can live like that. But I think that when I allow myself, it feels connected to, I think, self birth, which I think is something that we all... Is Jay ready for that bigger canvas? Is he ready to put that message out into the world? Does he deserve that? Has Have you done enough for that? Am I worthy of that? Have I done the work? Am I in the flow enough? Because it's cyclical, right? Sometimes you're just not in the flow. I had seven years of just being what felt like, some of that, like swimming up river.

Because I was just, I'm going to swim up this river now for some reason. And that was partly that time when I was separated and living in Monmouth and training with lead and stuff. I really put my body and my mind through a lot of different... Before I did the show, even, before I did To The Edge. I I think it really, for me, it's like that we're enough, right? I think somebody said it on your wall there that you're enough. But it's like, I think we all struggle sometimes to really deeply believe that we are enough, that we're valued, that we're valuable. We're imprinted by our parents from the age of zero to seven, right? But that's not even taking into account the time that you're in your mother's. So there's a whole a heap of information that is just like, is it yours or is it somebody else's? I'm constantly trying to go like, how do I detach from this idea of what? Is that my? Is that my baggage? It look like my baggage. I mean, I know. Okay, that's mine. All right, I take that. Let's unpack that. But all that other stuff.

And I think Hoffmann taught me a lot in that space, but I think, interestingly, it's a fear of being alone. Are you good to be alone? I think that was the biggest for me in a long time. Am I good to just be on my own? I'm constantly working on that. Am I good enough on my own? Because am I good in my own company? Do I feel good with me just to be with just me today or for this next hour? Because I spent a lot of time in my youth with people who I really love and admire and adore and continue to, but in a way, it wasn't serving me. We talk about energy and drains and things like that. There were relationships in my life that I didn't even really realize the impact that they were having. Then when I did, I was like, Oh, wait a second. This needs reframing. Until I'm ready to reframe, I'm going to just take pause to feel safe, seen, and celebrated. But I think that... In amongst all of that, I think it was probably being alone and being good with being alone and recognizing because we're going to be born and we're going to die alone.

It's like, How good are you with being alone? That's beautiful. I think. That's what I'm saying. That you're enough, right? You don't need all the other things because I love a shiny object. I whatever. Although this isn't shiny, but it's the one from New Zealand. I do, yes. But I do. I've got a fast car, couple. Do I need them? I like the way it feels. But do we need to keep consuming all this stuff when the planet has got a ticking clock, it's interesting It's interesting. It's really interesting.

I find that we're all paradoxes, and we're almost giving ourselves permission to be a paradox until all of it's purified. And it's almost the permission is what allows you the ability to purify. Whereas if you're living in the conflict of I'm only one thing, you don't get the opportunity to dissolve the part that you may not be comfortable with because you haven't accepted it.

Yeah.

But no, that answer was beautiful. Being alone and being comfortable in your own skin and being enough. And that is the lifelong journey. I feel like that is it. And, Landa, I feel like I could talk to you for hours. We have. And I hope we do. Yeah, we did.

Yeah, we will.

We should. I want to end with what we end every episode on, which is called the final five of On Purpose. These are pretty much the same five questions that everyone gets answered, and every question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay.

Gosh, I hate that pressure.

These are your final five, and you can take your time. They're thoughtful questions. Orlando, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

My mother used to say, Have respect from the doorman to the director. I think, respect all life, anyone you meet, because we're all on that journey. And the person that's opening the door for you could be running the country. You just don't know.

It's a great answer. Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever had or received?

The worst. I mean, the worst advice. That's a really tricky You can skip it if your mind's blocked it out.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, it's hard for me to... Yeah, that's good. Hard for me to... The worst advice. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry, dude. No, that's good. Don't be sorry. That's totally great. I mean, if you blocked all out, that's awesome because I like to make a log of bad advice everyone's received because I feel like there's so much bad advice that goes around.

I mean, I like... Yeah, I'm not-No, you blocked it out.

That's cool.

If If it's not an for me, I'm like-Yeah, leave it.

That's what I'm saying. I'll skip the question. Don't need to apologize. Question number three, what's the first thought you have in the morning and the last one you have at night?

We wake up in a family bed, and Katie usually says, Thank you, God, for today. I'm grateful in every way, especially for... And Daisy will go, and we'll all go, Daddy, mommy, Fliny. We'll all do that.

That's beautiful.

And I'll then say,. Yeah, I think graduate. And at night, yeah, it's the same. It's beautiful. It's the same because it's like we woke up. And I think, yeah.

Question number four. What's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

Dude, that's so annoying. Other people's opinions of me.

Great answer. Fifth and final question we asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

I think it comes back to my first answer that my mother instilled in me, which is just respect.

Yeah.

A law of respecting life, all life. Baisaki Wakeda wrote this amazing letter. He came to the UK I think it was in the '80s, to visit the youth members. He was there, but he chose not to stand before them to have a communication. I think because he could feel the anticipation creation and the complete... So he wrote this letter, or he may have been busy, but he was there, but he didn't... But it was a choice, is from my understanding. And within it, he said, there's a piece about... I'm going to not Maybe land this, but you'll get the point. This lifetime is about from the material, from the external to the internal, and making all mothers happy. Because I'd love to actually find the quote.

Yeah, do it. Okay, so here we go.

I'm a member of a Buddhist organization since I'm 16, and my mentor is a Japanese man in Japan, a man named Daisaku Akeda. And in 1994, he wrote a message of encouragement to the youth of the UK. He wouldn't see them, but he sent this message. This is an excerpt from the message that he sent to these children for them to listen to. He reserved himself from being there. But I wanted to read it because I feel it's so important, and I had it written for you as well to read along. But it says, The times are changing from an age where justice, from an age where power is justice, to an age in which justice is power. In this new age, the Supreme guiding principle will be the benefit of all humanity rather than the interests of one particular nation or ethnic group. We will see the transformation of history from the revolution of the external environment to that of the inner self, the inner human revolution. It will be an age in which the actions of leaders will naturally be based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy. The actions of leaders will be naturally based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy.

Respect, right? Because we can't, us, mortal men, really fathom the power of what it means to be a mother in the world. But if we can have a little bit of... It's so interesting, isn't it? It's so interesting to see the times, how they've been changing and how this masculine that's been living in with us and we've been living with and under and around for and is transformed and how we're learning, particularly as men, to respect and understand the power of the mother. Mother earth, mother, mother, the mother's. He goes on to say about respecting your father and mother, and I really think he means all fathers, all mothers. I was talking about this with David, who introduced me to my practice just earlier, and we were saying He was saying, I've really come to understand that it's all mothers. Respect all mothers, respect all fathers, particularly because they hopefully have some sense of the value of life. There are some people that don't. Of course, there are some people that that's not. But yeah, so I think that was-Beautiful idea.

I've never heard it been put that way.

It's a wonderful... And that idea as well, which actually, interestingly, I wrote a note of what Sam said about Altman, and he was like, The journey is now, because I think it's way more... It's not the external, it's the internal. If we are those little galaxies, If we really start to understand each of us and have respect and take responsibility, right? What I understood about my practice was if I'm good enough and capable capable enough to just take care of my side of the street, then if I get so good at it, I can start to take care of other people's side of the street. Because there are some people that just don't have the skill set. They may not have had the education, they may not have had the upbringing, whatever it may be, the circumstance. They were born into a life that just didn't provide anything like the tools necessary to be able to cope with what life is. Those obstacles I was talking about. For some people, it's just there the whole time. If we're all becoming capable humans and able of taking care of, then we can start taking care of your neighbor.

You know what I mean? Start taking care of the person next to you because they can't. Because that's what it's going to take, in my mind, for this next chapter where jobs are not what they used to be, and people need that boundary. They need that frame of reference. They need the security through boundaries, right? So, yeah, the discipline, but the respect and the all mother's happy. Let's make all mother's happy. It's funny.

Sometimes I don't do that, though, by the way.

I try. We try.

You said it here now. Everyone has been listening and watching. Thank you so much, Orlando. Thank you for being what I was saying to you a second ago. Thank you for being so vulnerable. Thanks for being so open. Thanks for being in a space of discovery. This conversation was us discovering what was in your heart, what was in your mind. It was us unraveling an opening in those to me are my favorite conversations when you don't know where you're going, but you know you're going there together. And I think that's so true for so much of what we discussed. And everyone has been listening and watching back at home or at work wherever you are in the world. Make sure you tune in to The Edge, which is premiering on April 18th, if you haven't already. And also, please, please, please let me and Orlando know on Instagram, TikTok, you guys cut up the best clips and everything. Let me know what resonated, what connected. Tag us both so we can see what you're practicing, what you're staying with you, and what you're putting in and implementing and applying in your life. But a big thank you to Orlando for showing up.

Thanks, mate. So deeply, wonderfully. I'm excited for more of these conversations Me too, bro.

Me too. Absolutely.thank you.Love it.Thanks so much, family.Thanks, man.

If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value.

As an artist, If you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say, I like this enough for other people to see it. I'm Jay Shetty, and on my podcast, On Purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Lewis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in ours. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Join the journey soon.

Hey, it's Stephie Brown, host of the Deeply Well podcast, where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your well-being journey. Deeply Well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply Well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen a podcast. Namaste. On his new podcast, 6 Degrees with Kevin Bacon, join Kevin for inspiring conversations with his friends and fellow celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like actor Mark Ruffalo.

I found myself moving upstate in the middle of this fracking fight, and I'm trying to raise willing to poison my water.

Listen to 6 Degrees with Kevin Bacon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.