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Something that makes me crazy is when people say, well, I had this career before, but it was a waste. And that's where the perspective shift comes, that it's not a waste, that everything you've done has built you to where you are now. This is she pivots, the podcast where we explore the inspiring pivots women have made and dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them. Join me Emily Tisch Sussman every Wednesday on she pivots. Listen to she pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, it's imperative when you get into a relationship before you commit who leads and who follows. Think about in dancing. You can't have two leaders. You just can't think about running a company. You can't have two CEO's. You have to have that moment of who is leading and who is following.

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Jay Shetty Jay Shetty the one, the only Jay Shetty.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to on purpose. The place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. Thanks for tuning in again. I'm so grateful. Whether you're watching this live, whether you're listening to me, I appreciate you deeply. Today's guest, I believe this is her third time on the show, which is epic. It's because she's one of my favorite people offline and I love these online transitions and conversations with her. I'm speaking about Lisa Bilyeu. An entrepreneur, producer, bestselling author, public speaker and host, Lisa co founded the billion dollar brand Quest Nutrition and is co founder and president of Impact Theory Studios. Lisa built a global audience while creating an impressive slate of content that has been viewed over half a billion times. This includes Lisa's hit digital series Women of Impact, a show that features extraordinary guests who, through their stories and expertise, help viewers build their confidence. I've been lucky enough to be a guest on the show. Lisa is one of my dearest friends and I'm so excited to announce that her book is out in paperback right now. Radical confidence. It includes a brand new chapter. So if you want eleven lessons on how to get the relationship, career and life you want, this is the book to grab.

If you didn't grab it the first time, now's the time to grab it. It's cheaper, too, because it's in paperback. Welcome to the show. Lisa Billew. Lisa, so good to see you.

Hey, Jay, my brother from another mother.

I know, I love it. I love it. It's always good. You know, it's like you walked in and we were already having an amazing conversation and then we were like, all right, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's, let's, let's start the real podcast. Lisa, I think confidence is such a important and powerful topic. I wanted to ask you because I think there's so much material and you do so many interviews around confidence and what it means and what it feels like. How do you define confidence for you and what does it mean to you? And what is something that people can think of? Because I think everyone has a different view of the word confidence.

Yeah, I think most people actually have the misinterpretation of what confidence actually is because they usually, and I was culprit of this when I was a stay at home wife for eight years. I thought I needed it to get started and I thought I needed the confidence to live out my dreams, to actually go towards my goals. And I was waiting to have the confidence. And that, I think is a complete misconception is what actually is holding so many of us back from trying anything. And what I realized was, in my own journey, I actually just need to take action. I needed to go into something very insecure, not knowing what I was doing. Practicing, practicing, practicing. You know, wax on, wax off. My favorite movie, karate kid, and get so damn good that I build the competence to then lead to confidence. So the truth is, the confidence is the byproduct of taking action. And a lot of us don't think of it like that. We think it's going to be the magic bullet that's going to get us to actually take that action at the beginning. And so that's where I actually reshaped and how I rethought of the word confidence.

And then also, for me, confidence is like a muscle. If you don't keep practicing it, you won't actually get strong at it. And if you stop practicing, you will get weaker. And just like when you go to the gym, you may practice, like your biceps or your legs. It's a different mechanism to practice working your calves and practicing your bicep. So that is what confidence is. It's not like you get confidence in one area and you're good to go. It's like you get confidence maybe in being in front of the camera, but being in front of the camera, as you know, Jay, is very different than being on stage. So when someone sees maybe you've got confidence in one area, it doesn't mean that you've got confidence everywhere else. And I think people, if it's you and you're thinking about it, you may then think that you're incompetent or you're no good or like, it's just, well, I don't have the gene, so I may as well not get started. But the truth is, identify where you want the confidence, get started, build that competence, and then eventually it will breed confidence.

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. I remember once looking at the definition of confidence in the dictionary, and one of the definitions is an appreciation of one's own abilities, skills and qualities. I was like, I really like that definition. Like, it's actually self validation. Like, confidence is being able to look at yourself and say, I'm good at this. I'm actually a kind person. I'm a thoughtful person. I am a good public speaker. I am a best selling author, whatever it may be. And you're almost validating a skill, quality or attribute you have by yourself. And I think it's so interesting. And you're right. I think we viewed confidence as how do other people feel about us, so we look at it as like, oh, that person looks so confident because they're, like, walking out their car. They got that swag. They're, like, dripping in great clothes or whatever it may be. And we see that as confidence, but we know that that person could be sitting in there going, oh, I'm not the right size. I'm overweight, underweight. I'm whatever else it may be and criticizing themselves. I was wondering, what is something that took you the longest in your life to build confidence around?

Oh, I'm ever evolving. But I think it really was to believe in myself that I'm capable. And that all started from because I was a stay at home wife for eight years. And I want to just make sure that I say this, though. There's nothing wrong with being a stay at home wife at all. It's actually one of the hardest jobs that was for me, but I didn't want it. That actually wasn't my dream. It was. I felt like it was sucking the life out of me. So as that staying home wife, I didn't make any change because I didn't feel like I was capable of anything because I was so insecure. That voice in my head was so negative, Jay telling me all the reasons why I was no good to try anything. And so in order for me to build my confidence to move forward, I was like, well, what if I am bad? Who cares? You have to actually practice. Why do I think that I can be amazing at something, right? If someone looks at you and they're like, oh, my God, he's such an amazing podcaster. How long have you been doing it?

Years and years and years and years. So when someone looks at you and let's say they're comparing their beginning to your middle or your end, you will feel incompetent. And so, for me, I had to stop looking outside of myself at all the amazing people because I believed I wasn't good enough to try. And so I had to build the internal confidence to take that action, to actually just try and understand that it's going to be a process. And without that, I never would have got out of what I call purgatory of the mundane, where my life is just mundane enough. And so I'm just stuck there day in and day out. And that idea that even if you don't feel good enough, you can still take action, I think was the biggest thing that was the hardest for me because I didn't want to get bullied. I was already bullied as a kid for my looks from other women. So you can imagine me trying anything. That fear of being bullied from other girls was so petrifying that I didn't even want to take a chance. And so realizing a, I have to build that within myself.

And you said the word validate actually, earlier. That word really sticks with me because I think a lot of us wait for validation, external validation. We wait for someone to tell us that we're a good greek wife or an amazing husband or a fantastic wife, and that can actually hold us where we are, because I was so seeking validation from everybody else, and at the time, I was getting validation from being that stay at home wife. And so you can imagine I have low self esteem. I don't believe in myself. I don't think I'm good enough. And everyone's validating me for this one thing, even though I don't like that one thing. That validation, that feeling good about yourself, is what kept me there. So I think the trick is, is how do you make sure that you validate yourself? And that became the path for me, building my confidence every single day. What am I going to do today to validate myself? Not get validation from my partner, from my boyfriend, from the extra? How many likes I got on Instagram? Instagram? No. No. How can I validate myself? And that became my north star versus everyone else, making me feel good about myself.

Absolutely. I mean, how did you get the courage to admit to yourself that you weren't happy in that moment? Because I feel like a lot of people, friends that I know people have in my life will kind of tell themselves the story, and we have to, because you have to survive, and you need a coping mechanism, and we'll just be like, no, I'm all right. I'm okay. No, you know, this is life. Like, it's all right. This is my lot in life, and this is what I have to do, and this is just how it is. And we say these things because we're scared of what may be on the other side, of admitting to ourselves that actually where I am is not where I want to be. And we kind of supplement it with, oh, everyone thinks I'm doing all right, so, of course I can't be doing that badly. How do you kind of get the courage to say, you know what, I don't want this life? Because I think that statement requires a lot of courage. And I know I was scared to admit it to myself when I was. I'd already left the monastery.

I was in a corporate job. It was safe. It was stable, it was sturdy. Career progression was obvious. And here I was going, and by the way, I was so scared I would never get a job after leaving the monastery. So even having a job, I was very grateful because no one would give me one. So now for me to be like, okay, I need to break this away. And everyone's like, wait a minute. You're lucky to have a job, bro. You didn't work for three years. Like, so how do you. How did you get the courage to admit to yourself, I'm not happy here?

Yeah. So I love this question because it's such a small dripping effect, and I liken it to water dripping on the stone. A couple of drops is not a big deal. Over time, you do that year after year after year, what happens to that rock? It actually starts to change its shape. And that's what I started to realize. Me ignoring my happiness, ignoring what I actually wanted, started to change the shape of how I saw myself. And after eight years, I didn't look like what was looking back at me in the mirror. I couldn't recognize myself because I wasn't speaking up. I wasn't having my voice. And so there were a couple of things I realized that really became like, the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will. One of them was, I was using gratitude, which I love. Right? It's like, be grateful for things you have, because there are other people out there that don't have that. So the first couple of years from, in my marriage, I was using gratitude, even though I didn't want to be the stay at home wife. Now, that looked like, my God, I don't like being a stay.

I don't like cooking and cleaning. But actually, I'm so grateful I have husband that loves me. My God, the amount of people that don't have that healthy relationship. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful I've got a roof over my head. I'm so grateful. Fill in the blank. And that was wonderful. But come year four, year five, year six, year seven, that gratitude started to really turn its head into almost toxic gratitude, which every time that voice that was speaking, are you happy, Lisa? Like, you don't seem happy. I would use the gratitude to shut her down. And that looked like, how ungrateful are you? How ungrateful are you that you want something else when you've got a husband that loves you? How ungrateful are you, Lisa, that you want to go out in the workforce when you don't have to? So that voice, that gratitude started to come really toxic. And so identifying that, allowing the voice in my head to just turn up the volume, allow her to actually speak, because we've been taught, especially for me, growing up greek orthodox is you live in service of everybody else. You live in service of the family, the husband, the kids.

And so you put yourself last. And I started to realize this voice is getting louder. What happens if I actually start to listen to her? What does that look like? Because I'm such a self ownership person. And so if I'm unhappy, what am I going to do about it? What choices am I going to make different? That's going to lead me to a different outcome? And I started to realize it was all on me. I hadn't spoken up and told Tom, my husband, that I was unhappy. So let's just address step one. Acknowledge, Lisa, you're unhappy without shame and guilt. Acknowledge it to myself. That was step one. Then acknowledge it to my husband. I love you more than life itself, babe, but I don't want to cook for you and clean for you anymore. Voicing that having the strength, the courage, you said that earlier, having the courage to really own where you are instead of sitting in the shame was a massive thing. And then the final thing is just project your life out. What does it look like if you don't make a change in a year, in five years, in ten years, in 20 years?

And the truth is, I would have been doing the same thing. I would have then slipped into being a mother because that's what my culture told me. And then I would have slipped into giving over to the children and the husband. And in 1020 years, I'm exactly where I am, just on a different scale. And those elements were the things I'm like, oh, well, no one's coming to save you. No one's going to come and change your life for you. So what am I going to do right now to make that change that resonates so deeply?

And I love that you brought up that toxic gratitude point, because it's so interesting how we somehow, deep down, believe we deserve so little, right? Like, and whether it's conditioning where we grew up, there's a sense inside of us. And by the way, I can relate to all of that. We grew up in the same area. We've talked about this before, a block.

Away from each other, literally.

And, you know, I kind of like when people ask me now, like, you know, how. How does it feel and everything, I'm like, I actually never in a million years believed that any of this would ever be possible, or even that I even had a dream for it. I don't even think I dreamed this big. And there was a part of me that just was okay with whatever would have come and whatever would have been and what everyone around me was doing. And now I see that that was because somewhere deep inside of myself, I was hampering my potential. I was restricting my desire. Because it's almost like you're so scared that it may never happen, that you'd rather not allow the possibility. Does that make sense?

Yeah. The fear of failure is actually, or failing is actually worse than the fear of failing. So you're like, well, I may as well sit in the fear of failing than actually fail and have everyone see it.

Yeah, exactly. Hey, everyone, it's Jay here. My wife and I have had so much fun creating our own sparkling tea. Junie, and I've got big news for you. It's at Target, and we'd love your support. If you can go out, grab a junie, youll be adding adaptogens and nootropics into your life. With mood boosting properties aimed at promoting a balanced and happy mind. Through our commitment to our wellness journey and striving to fuel our bodies with the healthiest ingredients, its been our purpose to make healthy choices accessible for all, which is why Juni is now on shelves at Target. So head to our store locator@drinkjuny.com and find Junie at a target near you. So, for you, what was that like? Like, I guess, how have you dealt with that? Like, you've been on both ends now, like, you've been in a place where you didn't even feel like you were allowed to deserve a different life. You've now built one of the most successful companies. You've built another incredible media company. Like, you know, it's like you've now seen the other end. How is your belief system changed around what you deserve and what's possible?

Yeah, I think it starts with frame of reference, so people don't actually realize that they have a frame of reference. And just to kind of explain frame of reference is just the way you see the world, the way you think it ought to be, not the way it necessarily is. And so my frame of reference is going to be very different than your frame of reference. And so take, for instance, the very first time I introduced Tom to my family. So I've got a very big, loud greek family, and everyone talks over each other. Everyone yells at each other. And so Tom comes, meets them and that's the family. Everyone's yelling. And so we leave, and I'm like, oh, my God. They clearly loved him because they're clearly very comfortable around him. So I can't wait to hear how much he loves my family. So we get in the car and like, babe, what do you think? And he's like, they were so disrespectful. And I was like, what? And he's like, I can't believe, Lisa. Everyone's just screaming and yelling at each other. They ask me a question, they don't listen. Frame of reference.

My frame of reference, when someone yells and screams, like, in a happy way, it's actually a sign of greeting you, being comfortable around you. But Tom's frame of reference is when someone's yelling, it means disrespect. So that just gives an example of what frame of reference means. So you don't actually question your frame of reference. And I think that was the massive thing. Is I still, right now, to this day, will now every day, question my frame of reference on the way that I see things, because maybe I'm missing something. So being the stay at home wife, my frame of reference was, well, this is what a woman does. You're going to have children. You will get married. It didn't even dawn on me, Jay, that I could question whether I want kids or not. It didn't dawn on me. And so going from that to where I am now is because I literally will question my frame of reference every day, because it's your frame of reference that gets in the way of you having the dream. How many people say, I can't? I remember once I was coaching somebody, and they were saying about how they're building this business, and this woman, she's just had a baby, and she freaking loves that she's building this business.

She feels so good about herself. And her dad every day would. Has a key, comes in her house and would sit down at dinner and basically say that she was a neglectful mother. And she's like, I don't know what to do, Lisa. And I said, okay, well, he's got a key to your house. Either tell your dad that he has to set boundaries, or he doesn't get the key to your house. She's like, I can't do that. I'm like, yes, you can. You just don't want to. Your frame of reference may be that I'm a terrible daughter if I take the keys away from my dad. But how is it serving you? And so that, I think, was the massive thing that I realized that I had a frame of reference about life, belief system, whatever you want to call it. And sometimes it doesn't serve my dreams, my goals, and where I want to go. And so having the self awareness to ask myself, where am I? Where do I want to go? How am I going to get there? And what belief system do I have that's either going to propel me forward or hold me back?

What did you do in this? In this, I think another thing that, and I know a lot of women, especially, struggle with this, what did you and Tom done before? The point that you could actually have the courage and confidence to go and say to him, I love you, but I don't want to cook and clean anymore. Because to me, that kind of a transition, in most marriages or long term relationships, it could look like, I love you, I don't want to live here anymore. I love you. I don't like this thing that you do. I love you, but whatever, right? Fill in the blank. What had you and Tom done before that you felt confident enough to say that, that you knew it would land, or did you actually take a risk and you didn't know at that point whether he'd react positively or negatively? Obviously, now you've been together and all the rest of it, but in that moment, did you know that he would react well to it, or did you take a risk because it was so true to you?

Yeah, everything's a risk. You never know. How many times have you spoken to someone, you're like, I know exactly what their answer is going to be. And then like, oh, you go to Roddy, right? And you're like, all right. And then she gives you a compensation. Different response than you ever expected. But you still know him for so many years. So I didn't. And there's never a guarantee, but really, I went into it going, okay, how would I want him to talk to me about this? Because here's the thing. I need to be very self aware that I'm about to make his life more difficult. So just to paint the picture, he would wake up, his clothes were next to him, literally by his bed. Jay. He would put them on. He would go to the gym, he'd come back, his work clothes were ready, he'd get changed. I would hand him lunch to take to work so he didn't have to do anything in the house. So I knew, I can't pretend that his life isn't going to be worse. It is. I'm making his life more difficult. So a have give him the grace that of course he's going to have an opinion.

Of course it's actually going to make his life more difficult.

So give him, even though it's unfair.

Exactly.

For you, you still are being empathetic and giving grace, of course.

And even with the unfair, though I agreed to it, it wasn't like he was, like, forcing me to do it. So that's another thing I said. Yes, I also chose that life, so I had to take ownership over. I chose this as well. He didn't force me to, but now I want to make a change, so how do I do it? So giving him the grace that of course he's going to have a feeling and then understanding the idea of grief. Grief is where you have to let go of something, someone, something that you didn't expect. And so he had an idea of the wife that I was, because I had painted that idea for eight years. So I know he's going to have to grieve the wife that I was. So giving him the space to grieve is super important. And then the last thing is almost like, I hate to say, but like a drug addict, where you, like, wean them off. I was like, he's addicted in some way or habitual to the fact that I would do this every day. And just like any habit, you cannot change that overnight. And so what I said to him is, look, here's a game plan.

Maybe this will help. What if next week I'm just going to cook and clean for you six days a week, and then the week after that, I'm going to do five days, four days, three days. Right. And so what that did was show him I was willing to work with him on the transition. And then the final piece is letting him know, I'm not happy, babe. I'm profoundly unhappy. This isn't your fault. This is because I made decisions. But now I need your help. Right? So I'm asking to be a part of this. I need your help because I'm not happy. And I don't think I can do it alone. Now, as my husband, he has the opportunity to be there for me instead of him being in his own, in his own head, selfishly, I can't believe he's like, oh, my God, my wife is actually asking for help. So that help piece was a big deal as well. And then overall, I think when you're approaching anything like this, how do you see your relationship? I think relationships are like a game of tennis. You're playing a sport, you're playing the same sport.

But are you playing singles or doubles? If you're playing singles, you're both on each other side of the net, and you're just hitting the ball back and forward, and ultimately, only one of you can win. And uc j. I'm sure you've seen a lot of relationship where someone's just trying to make a little jab at them, and it's like, it's literally this back and forth. It's not coming together. But a game of doubles. You're on the same side. You either win together or you lose together. And if I'm weak, I tell you I'm weak. And that's where you get stronger and vice versa. So, in this moment, I'm saying to my husband, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what the future looks like, but I'm not happy. I am weak. Metaphorically, I need your help. And so he turned around in having laid all that out, being honest with each other, that's also the foundation. Is your relationship built on honesty? Once you had that discussion, his response was, what kind of husband would I be if I put clean underwear ahead of your happiness? And that became the moment where he realized we were in it together.

I wasn't happy, and he could help me navigate out of it. And it came to that one day where he doesn't have clean underwear. Jay. I didn't do laundry for, like, a month. And he turns around and yells from in the other room, babe, I don't have any underwear. And in that moment, I paused. I was like, oh, no. Is this where the truth comes out? And he's like, I can't believe, as my wife, you don't give me clean underwear. And he turned around, he's like, so I guess I'm going to work commando. And he goes to work with no underwear on. Now, what that did was the way that I handled it brought him in. We did it together, made that moment was like a make or break. He could have been mad. He could have been like, see, I knew it. The resentment and contempt is like, the two things that will identify, I think, by 90% guarantee that a couple won't last is if you see resentment and contempt in a relationship. And so that is exactly what would have happened. He would have built contempt day by day that my wife isn't cooking for me, my wife isn't cleaning.

And one silly moment, like, I don't have underwear, could be that breaking point of that relationship. But because we'd set up that foundation. That moment that could have broken us, actually brought us closer together.

Yeah, I mean that, but that is literally an emotional maturity masterclass like that. It's incredible that you had that emotional maturity then and that Tom did, too. And obviously, you know, you see it in your continued success of your relationship and marriage, but I wish everyone would have a conversation like that, because here's how it usually would go. You'd have the realization that you're not happy. You'd probably suck it up and live with it for a bit longer. Then you'd go up to me and be like, I can't believe you've controlled me for the last eight to ten years. I can't believe that you've dominated me. I can't believe that you've made me this submissive person and I'm not happy, and I'm never going to cook for you again. I'm never going to clean for you again. Do it yourself. Grow up. And you could have said it like that. And then he'd turn around and go, get over it. That's what you signed up for. And I think a lot of people end up having that version of it. And it's really interesting I say this to a lot of people. It's almost like when you share something, are you sharing in a way that is looking at the 360 of what you just said?

Like, well, what did I sign up for? What did they sign up for? How does this change affect them? The change will never be seamless and smooth. That now that I've said it, from tomorrow, everything's going to be perfect. And it's incredible to me to hear the emotional maturity surrounding that. And I hope that everyone who's listening and watching my compassion goes out to people who I do feel are with someone who may not have the emotional maturity to receive it, even if it's shared with the maturity that you just shared it. I think I do know a lot of people who have tried to share something similar with their partners. And the partners will be like, I'll just get over it. Oh, you'll be fine tomorrow. Don't worry about it. Like, you know, how would you have dealt with if that was the case? How would you guide people with radical confidence? How would you deal with that?

Yeah. God, that's such a great question, because there's no guarantee that your partner's going to respond the same way Tom did.

Even if you dropped it perfectly.

Yes, yes.

Right? Like, that's the point. I think we live in a world where we think if I say everything perfectly, then someone, and we know that's not true. So let's say you dropped it perfectly and Tom had. It's right, babe. That's what women are meant to do. That's what a wife's meant to do. That's what. Or that's what you signed up for. We both signed a contract. That's what it was. What would you, what would you have done?

And that's really important, because that's the thing, is, like, was it a non negotiable for him? Because even to where I said I originally wanted four children and I don't want any, that idea of that non negotiable. If he was the type of person where one of his non negotiables were having children and having a stay at home wife, I actually understand that we're not meant to be together then, because I don't want to force my opinion on you. You need to live the life that you actually want. And if that life means that you really want children, you need to go and find that, because we're going to make each other unhappy, no matter how much I love you. And so if Tom had turned around to me and said, yeah, no, that's what you signed up for, I think in that moment, I would have been shocked. I wouldn't have expected it, and I would have had to go back and be with myself and be in silence and start to write out what my value systems are, what my morals are, and how I want to show up every day and then check to see if then what Tom is saying aligns with that.

Because I had been going along with the flow for so long and thinking other people's opinions were mine. And so we don't really know what is our own thoughts until we are still, until we write out what we actually care about. And so our value systems happen to very much align. Our value system is I will support you even in spite of things that may make my life more uncomfortable. Right. My value system is, is that you have, you are an ambitious man. I will protect you and support you in your ambition, even if it makes my life more difficult. So if he's working, which is true, two years ago, he was working 120 hours a week.

Two years ago?

Yeah, like, for like, 18 months. That was very hard. And so for 18 months, I was supporting him until it started to become detrimental to us. And that's where it's, like, support each other. Know your value systems, but never let your own values diminish your own wants and need. Diminish and that's what I did for eight years. And that's kind of what I talk about in the book, about how a relationship can be literally the. The wind beneath your wind, your wings, that can help propagate you. Right? It can. It can make you feel better about yourself as you're on that journey, but it also can be that anchor around your ankle that can, if you dropped into the ocean, would just take you deeper and deeper. And so who are you with? Do they want to see you shine? Do they want to actually see you thrive? And what are their non negotiables? But I think ultimately, if Tom had said that, I don't think we would have stayed together. And that's the key, because when people say, you and Tom are so lucky, you're so lucky to have someone like Tom. And I said, no, no, no.

I've got Tom because we communicate. And he's the person that is okay with a wife going from a stay at home wife to now an entrepreneur. And I'm okay with having a husband that works 100 hours or 120 hours a week. Most people aren't. And there's no judgment there, but that's what makes us beautiful dance partners. And so never. I just did it too long, Jay. Never anyone listening. Don't ever diminish your dreams. Don't ever negotiate your boundaries for somebody else. Know what they are first. And then ideally, find somebody that respects and compliments them.

Yeah. It's such great advice. And it's, you know, and I know you mean it. And it's funny because I. I think I resonate strongly with that as well, is that when I think about me and Radhi, it's. It's very. We obviously, we no longer have been together as long as you and Tom have. But I see a lot of similarities in how we're growing in that way. And your relationship is a beautiful example of that. Like you and Tom and how long you've been together and all the transitions. And I love seeing it. It's really inspiring for us and I think it's similar for us. Like, I always. I genuinely believe it, that the reason why me and Radhi work is because we communicate and is because we're both able to respect and adapt and know what the other person needs. I think what's really interesting, though, Lisa, is that a lot of the time, what we want, we've got to really think about that word because I wonder whether sometimes we've always. It's so funny because I'm going the other way, but we started off talking about, like, we all believe we deserve less, but sometimes in our relationships, we could be really demanding in a way that isn't taking into account who the other person is.

So I'll give you an example. Let's say what you wanted. And I know Tom, so I'm going to speak for him a bit. And you can edit the parts I don't get. Right. If you had said, jay, I'm excited to get married. And the guy I want, I want him to be someone who every evening spends time with me. Every weekend is free and available. I want him to think about planning a vacation four times a year or twice a year or once a year. I want him to be someone who just wants to cuddle up and watch a movie every night. Even if you wanted all of that, Tom was not the right guy. Like, that's not Tom. Like, he's. And he may be some of those things, but not really. Not really. Yeah, exactly. From my perception, Tom's not that guy.

You guys know each other, you know?

Yeah, I know Tom. Yeah. Like, Tom's not that guy. And. And I'm not saying that makes him a good or bad. I'm just saying that's not Tom. And it was similar with me and Radhi. Like, you know, like, I think I said something ridiculous to Radhi when we first started dating. And I was like, look, if you want the guy who's always free every weekend to hang out with family and goes to a movie on Friday night and then goes, like, I don't know, like, house shop, furniture shopping on the weekend, I was like, I'm not that guy. Like, I'm just. That's not me. Like, I have a mission. I'm excited about stuff. Like, I'm. I'm passionate. I want to live a purposeful life. Like, this is my priority. And so sometimes what we want and who we're attracted to don't mesh. You can be attracted to Tom for his intelligence, his brain, his looks, whatever else it is, and he can be attracted to you, but then you're like, but wait a minute. I actually want someone who's ambitious or not ambitious. I want someone who's this or this. And so sometimes I think we're trying to force someone to be something that they're not.

And I see that a lot. I'll have a lot of friends who say to me, like, I wish he was just a bit more ambitious. I'm like, but he's not. And he's not suddenly gonna become that. Like, he's he's. He may become that because we can all change, but obviously he's not showing you that two years or someone will be like, you know, I wish he didn't work so hard like I would, you know, and. But, you know, his goal is to be a billionaire. Like, as in, do you know what I mean? And he's dedicated to that. So I'm like, where does that want an attraction kind of go together?

Yeah, I think such a great question. Yeah. Because here's the thing, though, Jay, is that of course we want everything. Of course we do. Everyone does. So just accept that, okay? You're not going to necessarily be able to have everything. So what's the cost? So I find ambition extremely sexy and attractive, and so I'm attracted to someone that has ambition. And so what comes with that? What is the cost of being attracted to someone that has ambition? It means they're not going to be there every night at 07:00 p.m. They're not taking time off on the weekends. They're not filling the blank. Okay, well, what's more important to you? Like, now, just look at those facts and go, if you're ambitious, this is actually what comes with someone ambitious. If you want someone that is a stay at home again, freaking love it. But just know that probably means they're going to work a nine to five. That way they have the time to be open to then spending date night with you. But are you okay with that? What life do you want? What's more important? Like, actually almost prioritize them. And so, for me, that was a very early wake up call.

Call with Tom, where it's like, I know who I married. And so just because I've got a ring on my finger doesn't mean now all of a sudden he has to change in order to fit all the things that I'm looking for in life. I actually know that the cost of being with him is that I don't see him on a Saturday night or a Friday, and then that extends to children. When we were even talking about kids, he said, babe, I love you. I'm not going to wake up in the middle of the night and clean the baby's diaper because I am ambitious and I will be resentful going back to that word. I'll be resentful if I give up my ambition for my children and my wife. I won't be able to be the man that you love and you want me to be because I'm. You are literally stripping me away of the fundamental person I am. And when you can respect someone for being that honest and that transparent, I only receive it with utter gratitude, to be honest. Like, thank you for telling me before we have children what type of father you're going to be.

And so he said, I'm going to be working really hard. I'm not going to be coming home at 07:00 p.m. Every night, and I'm not going to get up with the kids because I need to make sure that my cognitive load is, like, on fire when I'm in my business. But then on the weekends, the truth is that I want to be an amazing father, and so I'm going to be on the weekends taking my kid to soccer practice and doing all these things. Those are the reality of who fundamentally he is and how that shows up in our relationship. Cool. Now that I know that, do I still want children knowing that pretty much Monday to Friday, I'm a single mother? Because when people don't have these conversations, it ends up being the biggest thing that breaks that relationship, because you are now judging the part. I can't believe he's not waking up and I'm left all by myself. Or did you have the discussion so that you knew? Again, there's zero judgment, but you knew what the mother wants and what the father wants. And this goes both ways, right? It's not just Tom, what do I want out of life and how do children fit into my lifestyle?

But those are the things that we spoke about every step of the way, so that we can always give each other the utter respect in being the person they are. Because when you strip away that you can't bring your whole self. You know, you've written in your book about how you have to have a relationship with your purpose, your partner has to have a relationship with their purpose, and then you come together. But if you're stripping each other of their purpose, you can't have that beautiful dance and that relationship. So knowing all of those factors is exactly why I was like, I still love you. I appreciate it. I still find this very sexy. And now the understanding is, is that he's not going to be home in the evening. And that was actually part of what made me decide that I didn't want children because I don't want to be a single mother Monday to Friday, I freaking love my work. So I actually don't want to give that up either. I didn't want to have children, have nannies, bring them up. No shame, just my decision. And then on the weekends, I'm just going to be utterly transparent and honest with you is that I don't want to be second or third on his priority list.

When is there going to be time for me and him? If he's working a week and on the weekends he's with the children. And the thing that I will protect the most is my relationship with my husband. So knowing that now, what decisions do we make to protect our relationship? And I understand people, especially with kids, will be like, you won't know what it's like until you have kids. I bet you get that all the time, especially in your culture. The truth is, no, I don't know what it's like because I don't have them. But there's nothing that I'm missing or losing because I don't know what I'm missing out on. It's kind of like a dog making fun of us humans for our sense of smell. It's like their sense of smell is freaking amazing. But I don't know what it's like. So I don't look at a dog in longingness. I just go, I know my sense of smell, and it is what it is. So. But I do treat it as fact that I bet you nature takes its course and makes sure that biologically, especially as a woman, that you then prioritize your children.

So then again, asking Tom, are you okay with going down on my priority list when we have kids? Because nature will make sure that that child is the center of my universe. I don't pretend otherwise. And being able to have that type of honest conversations with zero judgment, giving each other the grace to just be who they are, then allows us to say, do we have children? Do we still stay in this marriage without that growing contempt that then ends up breaking all couples? It turns you into a person you're not proud of. You start arguing, you start saying things you don't like, you start doing things you're not proud of yourself for, using potentially their vulnerabilities against them in arguments because you haven't had that true conversation from the get go.

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Yeah. I mean, there's so much to unpack there. And I love the first point you made, this idea of if you're attracted to something that's a non negotiable or a priority, first of all, just draw a line as to what the cost of that is. So if you want someone ambitious, naturally they'll have less time. If you want someone has time, naturally they'll be less ambitious. That's just how life works. And neither of those are good or bad. But if you go, I want someone who's really ambitious and has loads of time, that's just not happening. And so you need to know your deal breakers, and you need to know your priorities. And I love the way you put that, because I do think that we do want it all, and we want it all now. And when someone doesn't give it to us all, we then think it's their fault. And that's what creates this resentment and contempt, because we're like, well, wait a minute. Like, don't you want to work a bit more? And he's like, no, but the thing you love about them is that they're always available. Like, I have friends who's like, their partners will come on them with their work trip, and then they'll be like, oh, but then you have something to do.

And it's like, but you love the fact that they're always with you. And then there's this break, you know, this break. Does that make sense? Or even this idea of, like, I'll have some of my friends say to me, like, oh, you know, my partner's just a bit boring. And I'm like, but you wanted someone who didn't do anything. Like, you wanted someone who was, you know, like, didn't have interest, was always around, was always available, and now you're calling them boring for it. It's like, but you've never really, you know, you've never encouraged them to, or you've never been attracted to someone who wanted to explore. It's. It's fascinating to me.

Can we take it even?

Yeah, please. Go for it. Yeah, go for it.

So think about women in the workforce now. So a lot of women are, which I freaking love, right? I want to empower women. I think it's incredible that now we have the options to really be able to go into the workforce instead of be stay home wives or mothers. But what I'm noticing is happening is a lot of some women, I wouldn't say a lot, are really building that confidence, and I freaking like it. And I interviewed somebody, I won't say their name, but she's a really big powerhouse and she's successful and she's wealthy, and she had just got divorced. And so she's telling me the story about how she's like, yeah, I'm owning my sexuality. I'm owning who I am, and I'm a powerful woman. So she chats up this guy in a bar, and she's like, and he became my boyfriend. He's younger than her, so he moves in with her and she's like, I freaking love it. No guys ever going to control me again. I'm like, amazing. I respect that. You know what you want, you go after it. Halfway through the interview, she's just like, yeah, and I can't believe he doesn't, like, book any vacations.

He never pays for dinner. He never takes the lead on something. And I'm like, because you didn't set up your relationship for that to be like that. And I think ultimately this is something I'm really playing with new that's really weighing on me, is that I think one of the things people don't ask each other and they're worried, especially in today's society. But I think it's imperative when you get into a relationship before you commit who leads and who follows and having that actual conversation. And here's the thing, following someone doesn't make you weaker, it doesn't make you submissive. It just has a way to think about dancing. I've brought up dancing for some reason. I'm not quite sure why.

It's the dip.

Yeah, it's a dip. Exactly. Think about in dancing. You can't have two leaders. You just can't think about running a company. You can't have two CEO's. You have to have that moment. You have to have that moment of who is leading and who is following. But if you can remove the stigma that maybe you have against the word follow, then you can actually have that on this conversation. And that's what Tom and I did is, babe, I want you to lead. He wants to lead, and I want him to lead. That doesn't make me less of a powerful, confident woman. It actually makes me stronger in my eyes because I'm strong enough to know I can still be strong in my own conviction, my ideas, my boundaries, my standing up for myself. And I can still have faith in somebody else is going to lead me. Now, of course, if he goes off step, I'm going to have the confidence to speak up, but ultimately, I'm not challenging him for that role. And in today's society, again, it's just weird for people to say about roles in a relationship, and I think there's no right or wrong.

What do you want in your relationship? But you have to have that role discussion. No matter what gender a person is going to take the lead, you have to have that discussion first.

Yeah. And one thing that Radhi and I found is also that we lead and follow in different areas. So when it comes to our health, Radi leads. She decides what snacks we have in the house. She decides what we eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. She decides where we go out to eat for restaurants if we're going out. She decides what we eat when we're traveling because I trust her that she knows more about the body than I do as a nutritionist and dietitian and all of her expertise. And so I'm going to follow her. When it comes to working out, I follow her. She's the one who's, like, setting the pace as to, like, all right. You know, when I met her, I didn't even work out. Just played a bit of sport or whatever, and she was the one saying, no, no, no. It's really great for us to be active and do this together. So she leads. When it comes to our home, I lead interior design because that's my thing. I love it. I love art. I love esthetic. I love the feel. I love everything, and I get so into it.

And so she let me lead. She was like, jay, you're in charge. Like, that's your thing. When it comes to spending time with family and vacations, she leads because she loves taking care of her family and loves traveling together and giving them experiences. And so she'll lead then when it comes to the direction of, like, should we move now? Should we do this? Where should we invest? I'm leading that conversation, and I think it's beautiful because there's leading and following across all these different areas. And all of a sudden, it's like you're both playing to your strengths. You both feel valuable, you both feel significant, and you both feel like you get to rely on the other person, which is beautiful, which is what you want. And I think it's.

It goes back to the doubles in tennis. You're playing doubles exactly.

Exactly like, you take that shot, I'll take this one. And that's a beaut. That's a beautiful analogy. And I think that that's the reality of what's helped us as well is being humble enough to say, you lead your better at this and then being confident enough to say, no, I'll take this one because that's my strength. And I think that requires so much humility and putting your ego aside. And it also requires so much self awareness. And by the way, this isn't perfect. We're constantly playing with it. Like, they'll constantly be something like, I want you to do because I don't want to do it. She'll be like, I don't want to do it either. Right. There's that stuff, too.

Yeah.

And then there's stuff where you're both arguing over who going to lead because you both want to lead it. I think what we're both coming back down to is the importance of that conversation because I know so many of my friends actually have been scared to tell their partners, going back to the kids thing. And this could be about anything. Kids is an example where they're not ready for kids, but their partner is so pushing for kids. And it's like no one's listening to each other now. It's just our desire is superseding the code that your partner is trying to suggest to you of, I'm not ready. I'm not sure, but your desire is just like, no, no, no. It has to happen now. It has to happen now. And I find that to be like, I think I'd really. Me and Radhi kind of went through that, like, before we moved to the place that we're at now. I really needed to move because we lived in a place that we were renting that I never slept well in. We had people taking stuff. Like, our mail would always get stolen. We'd have. There were a lot of animals that were in the floorboards.

It was an old home, so you'd hear, like, animals rustling around. Like, it was just one of those homes where I always felt uncomfortable and anxious. And so I don't think I slept well for one and a half years or I would be living in fight or flight every night thinking, what if someone's in my house? And that is not a comfortable feeling. And so I kept pushing. I was like, rather, I need to get out of it. I need to get out. And she loved that home, so she couldn't get it. She was just like, this place is beautiful. And I'm like, yeah, it's beautiful during the day, but at night, trust me, I'm, like, really anxious here and I'm not really an anxious sleeper. I sleep well. And so it was very new for me, and I could tell she wasn't quite getting it. And so I had to start looking for new places, because I realized that until she sees something better, she's not gonna get the, and so it was literally like, and that's natural, right? Like, because her, she was like, I'm happy here. I'm satisfied here. I was like, no, but I can't.

And she wasn't getting the subtle nudges. And so I started looking, started dragging her to house viewings. We found this place. Even then, she was like, no, no, no. The other place is more beautiful, blah, blah, blah. And then finally I was like, you must be kidding me. And then we moved. And now she's grateful that we moved. But it was really interesting how, like, even though there was a bit of conflict and friction, I still knew I had to lead, but I knew I didn't have to lead by, like, trying to convince her or make her feel bad for not understanding me or because I could sense it wasn't that she didn't understand me or she wasn't listening to me, or maybe there was a bit of that. We just weren't getting it, if that makes sense. Does that? Yeah.

Yeah. What's interesting is I go back to the value systems, because the value for you was, I need to, the value of sleeping, because of how I know how important your brain is to you in your mind and how you think and how you show up and run your business and everything like that. It actually aligns with your value system. Now, maybe Raddy's value system was homemaking. I want to be somewhere I'm comfortable. So actually, both of your value systems, again, there's no right or wrong, but that's where your value system was then, colliding, because she feels like I've made a house out of this value system. Your values. I'm not getting what I need. I can't work. I don't have the mindset value system. So actually, what was happening is your value systems were colliding, but you're not talking about the value, you're talking about the house.

Yes, yes, yes.

And so that becomes that. Even with the kids thing, it's like, okay, with the person that wants to delay the children. What's your value system there? I haven't gotten to where I want to in my career, and my career right now is super important. And maybe the per, the person is my value system. I've always wanted a family, and so I value family over business. So now you can see one person's valuing business over family, the other person's valuing family over business. And you're colliding, but you're not actually talking about the thing. You're just talking about the kids, but it's actually about the value system that's colliding. The silly example that I learned this lesson with Tom was over making the bed. I was like, what do you mean, you don't make the bed? Of course you make the bed. It was like the thing I was taught my whole life. And Tom was like, no, I won't make the bed. And we would collide. I'm like, you don't get it. And so he would get frustrated every time I would make the bed because he's like, I have to unmake the bed now. I'm like, it takes 3 seconds.

And I was dismissing and mocking him, if I'm going to be very honest, thinking he was wrong, that, of course you made that. What kind of person doesn't? And I was literally putting my value system on him until we started to dig what does making the bed mean to you? And to me, it was about neatness. It was about calm. I have adhd, so I need those moments of calmness around me. I need things to be neat in order for me to be centered. But I didn't say that. I said I need the bed to be made for him. His value system is time. He's like, it's the one thing I'll never get back. And so if you ask me to do something that doesn't actually align with the vision of what I want my future to be, don't like you're asking me to be someone I'm not. So his value system is time. My value system is tidiness. And so you can see in just that silly thing of making the bed, we freaking collide. And how many people, couples do that every single day over small little things. And what ends up happening is that oxytocin that you had when you first started dating is no longer there.

And all you have are these collisions day in, day out.

I love that. And I really hope everyone who's listening and watching takes a moment to break this down for themselves. We had it the other way around a couple of months ago. My wife's book came out. Her first girl. Yeah. And thank you. I know you interviewed her for it as well. And it was, you know, and it was just. It was a really exciting moment. Radhi had poured three years of her life into this cookbook. I saw her work hard on it. I've never seen her work that hard in my life. Never seen her just be so consistent. You know how much work it takes. You know, look, we're sitting here talking about radical confidence. One year on right and one year on two. Two. Oh, my gosh, it's been two years. Yeah, two years on of radical confidence. And you know how much work goes into this book. I know how much you poured into this book. This was your first ever book. And I said to Radhi, I said to her, I said, you know what, Radi? Like, we've been together now for eleven years. We've celebrated a lot of things but you've never had a book out.

So I don't know how you want to celebrate this because not every celebration is the same. Like, you don't celebrate a birthday, how you celebrate an anniversary and how you celebrate Christmas. They're different celebrations. And so I was asking and checking in with her and I was like, I actually don't know what you'd like to do in order to like make this moment feel special. And she, we were on a hike and she just said to me, she goes, oh, we just celebrated last night. And I was like, what do you mean? I couldn't even remember what we did last night. I was like, what do you mean we celebrated last night? And she was like, yeah. Like our friends came over, I cooked from the book and they loved the meals. This was the day before the book came out and I was like, wait, that was a celebration to you? Like, it wasn't. There was no, it wasn't like the joyful book event. There was no fancy like cards with food. It was just a few mates came over and she cooked from the book which I don't even know if she told anyone.

And they loved it and they loved the food. And she was like, that felt like a celebration to me because I made food I love for people I love and I was like, wow, you just saved me this grand idea I had in my head of like throwing a big party or like, you know, putting the joyful banner up or whatever, which is what I would do. And I was just thinking about that and I was like, it's so interesting to me that her value of celebration is that and my value around celebration is totally different. But again, so many couples and relationships can go wrong because we're constantly either celebrating the person we love or we're criticizing the person we love based on our value system. And now all we're talking about is the criticism or the celebration and not talking about the value. And it's fascinating to me that it works both ways, whether it's a good thing or not a bad thing. Because sometimes you do something, something nice for your partner, and they don't appreciate it. And you're like, why don't you appreciate it? They're like, because that's not what I appreciate.

It's not what I value.

And I applaud you for just asking her, because so many people either wouldn't ask, wouldn't do anything, or just assume. And that's, I think, where a lot of couples almost get mixed up, where it's like, well, if. If they love me, they should know. And it's like, oh, that breaks my heart. It's like they're not a mind reader. Like, like you said, we all change. We all evolve. You would have done something with the biggest heart, right? Like, I want to celebrate my wife. And she was looking like, what do you mean?

Oh, we didn't have plenty of times.

How many times? And then what happens? In that moment, you feel unappreciated for having tried to show up and do something amazing. She doesn't feel seen or heard. So now this whole thing, this act that you've done to try and really show her doesn't achieve anything. You and her both feel badly, and then again, you almost look at the other person like you're wrong or you're crazy, or, how could you have done this? And so the idea of just asking, like, remove all the idea of what we've been told of, like, if they love me, they should know and just say, ultimately, I want them to feel. What? I want them to feel loved. I want them to feel seen. Okay. How do they do that? I sometimes don't know. Let me just ask. So one of the things, actually. So I stopped being the stay at home wife. I stopped cooking for Tom. We laid out all of our things of how we want to show up for each other, and we changed and grow, or we both change and grow since then. So only last year, Tom turned around to me and he said, you know what, babe?

Like, I feel like I have a need that's unmet right now. And I was like, oh, my God. What's the need, babe? And he's like, I actually now miss that you don't cook for me.

Right?

So we've been, like, 15 years. He's been fine with it. But instead of me judging him, he told me I'm not supposed to guess. He just said that. And I said, okay, babe, what does that look like? And he's like, I like you to preempt my needs when it comes to food. I said, okay. Instead of just leaving it at that, I was like, okay, can I order postmates, then have it delivered? Would that satisfy the need? And he's like, yeah, you can do. Or do I have to cook it? He's like, no, no, you can have postmates.

Okay.

Do I need to plate it for you or can I leave it out on the doorstep and just text you? It's here. And he's like, well, if you can put it on, like, my kitchen counter, like his little side. And he's like, that way. I know. It's like, cool. Now I've heard you. I don't have to assume. I don't have to go straight into, oh, my God, he's now asking me to cook. I don't want to cook. I went there. I was that person. I don't want to get trapped. No, none of that. We just broke it down bit by bit of understanding what exactly that need looks like. Now, here's the other part. Maybe I'm not willing to do it. And in that moment, I just would have said right now that actually doesn't fit my lifestyle of what I need to show up. So how do we find a compromise? Is there a compromise? Or is it, sorry, I'm unable to do it, but what if I do it for three weeks on a holiday right now? Come up with ways that you're not just shutting the other person down, you're hearing their needs, and they feel heard that you're trying to find a solution.

Because ultimately, I think not to just stereotype, but typically, I think women want to feel seen, they want to feel safe, they want to feel needed, and they want to feel appreciated. It's not the money, it's not the height that a lot of people are saying they need to be six foot and then seven figures. No, no. If you really do stop and pause and ask your partner how they can fill those roles, then you can start to actually create a beautiful relationship on the long term. And then the same for a guy, obviously. I don't know, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, but I've tried to process, what is it that I think a guy needs? They want to feel appreciated. They want to feel powerful. Not controlling, powerful. And they want to be respected.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

And so, knowing, okay, if that's actually what you want, I'm just going to say it. People may hate it, but I just go to truth. How do I make you feel powerful? That's what I would ask Tom. How do I make you feel powerful? What are the things that you need now? Again, I then go back to my value systems. I say, does this align with me? But I'm not going to guess. I want to make sure that my husband's happy and that we're always constantly in alignment. And when you've been together for 23 years? I met him when I was 21. We've built multiple companies together, so how the hell have we been able to stay so aligned? It's these little things that people may be embarrassed to do, may be ashamed to do, or they don't want to do it.

That's the reality. That's the reality. We want something, but we either feel guilty, shameful, embarrassed, or uncomfortable to ask for it. And then we take that feeling out on our partner for not knowing it, and we get triggered when they say something like, I wish you'd cook for me again. That triggers all of our PTSD from that time. And now it's like, how can you even ask me to do that? You know how hard that was for me, not realizing it's just a suggestion, it's just an idea. It's coming from a good. It's that space that I think we've been talking about today is, can you kind of create a safe space to have these uncomfortable conversations without any shame or guilt. Right.

And that becomes the foundation that ultimately, selection matters. Who you choose to be with will absolutely dictate the outcome of your relationship. And so I used to say, the key to a relationship is communication. I don't actually think it is. I think it's a growth mindset, because if you do not have a growth mindset, no matter how much I communicate. You said that earlier, right. They may not be able to respond now. Think of all the hurdles and humps that we've been through in our relationship. How have we survived those? Because we are open to having the hard conversations. We're open to communicating endlessly until we get to the solution. One of the rules, so Tom and I have a bunch of rules. One of the rules is never apologize if you don't mean it. And even in the moment of I'm deeply upset, he absolutely can say, baby, I know if I just apologize to you right now, I know that you're going to feel better, but I can't apologize because I'm not sorry for it. And what that does is that absolutely elongates the conversation. The argument, it may go no now for two days, three days, but ultimately we're not brushing it under the rug.

We actually resolve it and go, okay, I'm still very hurt by it, but let me actually work through that hurt. Why am I hurt? Why was I triggered? Why did you say that? You know, and then we just peel away the onion. Peel away the onion to get to that core. But it all comes from that growth mindset. And if you don't have it, no matter how much discuss it, you're going to hit a wall where you cannot be seen or heard.

Absolutely. Lisa, you are amazing. The book, everyone is called radical confidence. Eleven lessons on how to get the relationship, career and life you want. Today we did a deep dive on relationships, which I loved. But when you open up this book, you'll learn how to handle your negative voice, how you can overcome failure, how you can actually work through your emotions and understanding them. Setting your value system is a big part of this book. Breaking through your beliefs, building that growth mindset is all inside this book called Radical Confidence. If you didn't get grab a copy two years ago, make sure you grab a copy right now. If you don't already subscribe to and watch women of impact, make sure you go and do that as well. Lisa, it's always such a joy talking to you because it's so lived. Everything you share is such lived experience. And I know you live by it because I know you and Tom, and on top of that, it's just so real. And I love having these really pragmatic, practical conversations around topics that can be very ethereal and uncomfortable and woo woo and kind of a bit like, oh, you know, and to be honest, manipulative and controlling, like, oh, if you want him to do this, do this if you want her to.

And it's almost like you actually can't get anyone to do anything. All you can do is accept them for who they are or not. And I think when we're having these conversations, I'm really hoping that everyone walks away with an understanding of what type of quality of interaction and conversation to have with the individual. And the growth mindset. Point is, in a relationship is huge because adaptability and flexibility is at the core of anything long term. And I've seen that with me and Radhi, too. There is just there, I realize all the time it's, things would only never work if we lost our flexibility and adaptability. And that's all growth mindset. You have to. And it's so interesting how so often we don't want to be flexible and adapt to one. By the way, that's okay, too. So, Lisa, thank you so much for showing up, as always, and just shedding so much clarity on a really difficult topic.

Thank you, Jay. Thank you for having me. You're. You're such a good dude. I freaking love you. I love Raddy. Like, we connected from day one and the support and human that you are. I just want to say thank you, like, for always being there as a friend.

Thank you always. Always. If you and anyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you tag me and Lisa on Instagram, on TikTok, on X, whatever platform you're on in the YouTube comments, let us know what resonated with you, what stuck with you, what you're trying out with your partner or potential partner. Please pass this on to a friend, someone in a relationship who's struggling, who's going through a tough time. I really believe it will give them the tools and the resources that they need to navigate and guide them through. And of course, go and grab your copy of Radical Confidence. It's available in paperback right now. Thanks so much, everyone. Thanks, Lisa.

Thanks, Jay.

If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Doctor Daniel. Amen. On how to change your life by changing your brain. If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over 1000 convicted felons and over 100 murderers, and their brains are very damaged. For mental Health Awareness Month, I'm partnering up with the National alliance of Mental Illness, Nami. If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health, there is help. Call NAmi helpline at 800 950 NAMi or go to www.nami.org help or text helpline to 62640. For immediate 24/7 crisis support, call or text 988 or visit www. Dot 988 lifeline.org dot.

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