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Customize a piece that's made to order just for you with 15 percent off using code on purpose and interior defined dotcom. Hey, everyone, welcome back to you on purpose. The number one health podcast in the world, and I'm here today with none other than Willow and Jahnavi to talk about their new collaborative EP Rise. Willow is a singer, songwriter, actress and record producer. She's well known for her 2010 hit single Whip My Hair, and has appeared in several films and also drawn so much of her new music today, which is absolutely phenomenal.

And her album, Willow, is a repeated album in my car. And Jahnavi is a musician known for her Kilton music and is a presenter on BBC Radio's Something Understood program and her pause for thought. And she is a long term friend. I've known for over 15 years and we have served together in so many wonderful ways. And today I'm talking with both of them about their newly released EP that they collaborated on together Willow and John. We actually met through my wife and I last year when they came to our home for an event and we were doing the launch of Red Table Talk Season two.

And it's just turned into this beautiful family, community and atmosphere.

So I'm so excited for this episode, so excited for you to hear it change. Today is a very special episode for a million reasons, I'm going to start with a couple to get going with. This is the first time that Rathi and I are going to do an interview together. So this is fun. And there's a special, special reason for why we're doing it together, because today we're interviewing two of our dearest friends, incredibly talented, the most creative, who have launched a brand new EP called Rize, which we cannot wait for you to hear.

It is none other than Willow and Jahnavi.

Harrison, thank you for having us. We're something we're so grateful to be with both of you.

I'm so excited to have you both here. We're both so excited to have you here and just excited to just have this whole energy here, which we have anyway all day long.

And so why not bring it into an interview?

So Rather is going to go with the first question, actually who I am, get my Ronnie Jesse vibe on. OK, so Willow and Shinobi, tell me tell me about the first time you guys made your music together.

Oh, well, that would be surrender. Yeah, I was. I just have to put it out there.

I was super nervous the first time we got in the studio together because, you know, listening to your music and seeing you doing Cureton, it was a level of a level of like channeling that I had never seen another musician have.

And so I was just like wanting to be worthy, like so badly to be able to make music with you.

So that was my that was my initial emotion when when we first started making music together, I was I was probably feeling the same way it was.

It was it was actually such a magical experience. And just as it worked out, I was only in L.A. for about, I think like eight, nine days.

And we only managed to actually get together in the studio the night before I was flying out.

So we knew we had like six hours or so or actually we had as much time as we wanted, but we could only meet in the evening.

So we were like, OK, there's only so long we're going to go for.

And but there was just such a special energy, actually. We had met up and we had practice something.

And I was nervous too, because I find the studio can be a lot of pressure and you don't sleep when there's not like an idea that's already said.

Exactly. We didn't have a finished composition or anything, but I think both of us were just feeling excited to work together. And we were like, let's just see what happens.

Let's just have fun with this. And if it's not anything, we'll just have had a fun experience and we can work on it another time.

And we got so absorbed in it and it just was flowing. And and I remember the you know, it was around midnight when we finished.

We were like, OK, let's let's listen to the whole thing now.

And we were just standing there and Willow was like, you're right, we're delirious at this point. We're the six hour tired.

But we were we were just and then we came out of the studio and we like, what was that?

What just happened that was so beautiful and it was just so natural. Yeah.

So and it's very rare that I have those kind of like synergistic. Is that a word. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Experiences with other artists because artists are so I know I'm very opinionated and I have very outlandish ideas and sometimes the push and pull of that can be kind of uncomfortable.

But for me and Jahnavi, it was like second nature from the from the start, it felt like old old friends and and a and even though we were so different in many ways, we there was just this feeling of ease and understanding, which is it's like that's what you always hope for in collaboration with other artists.

So yeah, we were like, we have to do this again.

Yeah, I love that. The reason it's so special as well is that rather you and I both absolutely adore you individually and your own music.

So like we would be in a car and we'd be playing and listening to you realize that we'd just be listening to your music.

And then I've known Jahnavi now for fifteen years. And so I've always been attracted to her music and the way she creates and how devotional it is. And so for us to see you both together, magic is just it's so fulfilling. So I want to ask you both and we're going to uncover all the layers as we go along.

But I also just before you start, I also just want to thank you both. Yes. For bringing us together. Round of applause.

You guys were meant to me either way, like whether it was through us or whether it was through another way that was 100 percent like you guys were meant to me. This was meant to happen. And everybody.

He did this in their life, so I think it was just happened to be us, but it would have been somewhere somehow it would have happened because but but I think you need to take credit for that, because that's because of what you don't want to take.

But I think you're both you're you're both such special people that you you attract such wonderful souls all around you. And you're always I think it's probably going to happen throughout your lives that you're making these beautiful connections. So, yeah, we were both we always talk about that. We're so grateful that you introduced us.

It's just selfish for me because I really wanted some, like, new music. And I'm just going to say no thank you.

You guys were really sweet. We love you for that. And we love seeing both of your collaboration and friendship and our friendship blossoming because of this devotional connect that we all have.

And I want to ask you, what did you what have you both learned from each other in this process? And it can be musical or nonmusical. It can be anywhere you want to go with. It makes a lot of things for you.

Yeah, I'll say I feel I've learned so much from Willow.

I think one of the one of the very obvious things about the process of working together was our different just different like pace and way of approaching creative work.

And Willow's obviously had so much more experience as a recording artist, as a composer, you know, you've recorded so much and compose your own written your own songs.

And for me, even though I have recorded music, it's still it's still something I get very nervous about, because most of what I do is is sort of live meditation experiences.

So but we hadn't worked together that much apart from that one song. So I didn't really know. Will those sort of style, especially with production.

And the first day I was like I was taken aback. I was like, wow.

Well, I was so confident about, you know, what she's looking for in the sound and also fast paced.

And I tend to be quite slow to slow sometimes. Like, people are always wanting me to make decisions faster. So although it was like by the end of it, I was like, wow, this has really pushed me creatively in such a wonderful way.

Initially I was like, I know.

I know.

I was I was trying to like, not a bad way, not in a scary way, but it was just like, you know, and you just like, oh, OK, I'm going to be growing here and I learn something new here.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's I figure but I love that, you know, I, I was sharing with someone the other day that it's just Willow's approach is so I feel it's the ideal artistic approach which is, which is to be like yeah, it's to be curious and not overly controlling of the of the end results.

Like it's really to discover to for the studio to be a space of exploration rather than like I want to have this specific thing and it can't be anything other than that.

It's it's a very playful and curious approach. And I think I can tend to be more focused on like, OK, but it has to be just like this. So, yeah. But by the end of it, I just felt like, wow, I'm ready to be just more fearless in creating and more open to what I could discover. That's just one thing.

There's many more. But I think, you know, I would even almost say like the inverse. Like I, I felt in times that I was overshooting and like kind of getting lost in the. But what about this?

And we could do this and maybe it's this band.

Like I felt like Jahnavi was really instrumental in, like kind of bringing grounding me and being like, OK, what's the intention behind this?

Like, I know you like that sound, but why are we you know what I mean. Like, what's the where does that sound go in the song. What is that song I'm going to say. Like what's the intention of this. So like you're intentionality with everything. You might think that it's sometimes a hindrance, but I think it's a blessing because, you know, you know, in your heart of hearts what every single instrument and every single lyric means to you.

And you're not just throwing things at the wall, like, let's see if this sticks and maybe this, you know what I mean? And I think those two approaches, they just complete each other in a really nice way. As they say, opposites attract. Yeah. And I think that this was a case of that.

Definitely. Both of you together and individually, what was your intention for the music that you were creating together?

I always want my music to bring people closer to themself, make them feel like they're like they're learning something or they're or there's a thought that's being planted that grows over time.

And listening to Jahnavi music, that's exactly how I felt. And then seeing it live, it was like, OK, how can I just bottle this?

Just like I just want to have this. Obviously, it's that's the beautiful nature of it because you can't bottle it and you can't just have it. That's why it's beautiful.

But, you know, I think that going into it that was my and I had never made a devotional album before. So I was even extra excited to explore that different part of me and what I could do with with this new, you know, with this new path in my life.

I think also just speaking from having it, how do you do it and just hearing you talk about it when we're all having lunch or when we're hanging out. And just I feel like your intention was so pure for it. Like from the moment that you first heard devotional music. I remember the first time it was we were doing a session and then I was like, oh, crap, I can't sing. And then and Ronnie can sing, but she chooses not to.

And then we were like, Oh, let's play John Évian on our phone. Yeah, that's the first time we all meditate. And then there's Willow on the floor. Yeah, I know.

Just like oh my God.

Like this fully with your heart open, like ready to receive. And that's the one thing about you like. And actually on that note, when you were even thinking about doing this album, I feel like from what John was told, when even experiencing from you, you wanted to get things so right. So whether it was your pronunciation or whether it was like, oh, what is this? What actually me like, oh, how is this? Where do you you really want to understand the depths?

You're not just trying to and that say, Ernie. Yeah, I, I want it to continue and I want to keep nourishing that because just through this music, I've, I've found such a deep love for just the Bacardi tradition in general.

And I'm just so excited to just dive deeper into that and learn more and just just brought in my horizon in my in my in that devotional sense, which is so beautiful.

Like, you want depth. You don't just want you know, just like, oh, this sounds really good. I really wanted to understand and feel it in you so that other people can feel it. And I think that makes a difference. Thank both of you feel it so deeply and you've experienced it in different ways. So you're trying to share that experience with other people, but you can only share an experience that you've had yourself have. And so I think you really feel that through both of your music and through your words, and it comes from your heart.

So I mean, your turn now, I think that definitely that was our desire to to try to capture the essence of what that is this this experience with mantra, with sacred sound and share it in a way that makes it a little bit more accessible for people who haven't experienced it before. So that's manifest in the form of, you know, these songs like the typical Montera session might be like half an hour, an hour.

And you're singing the same thing over and over again. That might be very daunting for someone who's never experienced that before. So one of our Monch tracks is two minutes long.

And and some of our songs are, you know, touching on stories or themes from the Bugti tradition. But they're more in a kind of typical song format with, you know, a couple verses, a bridge like that.

So it's something familiar, but it's conveying something of this deep, authentic tradition.

And so I think it's very natural that when something profoundly affects your life and touches your heart and it is offers a space of shelter and upliftment, you want to share it with other people. So that's what we we want to just give it as a gift. You know, if we can and I, I really treasure the fact that we both had that same intention.

And it makes working on anything just a complete joy because you feel you feel so aligned and, you know, and that trust was really there, like we both knew our intentions.

And so, you know, trying to do things over long distance because of covid and, you know, having to make decisions maybe without one another because of time differences.

And, you know, that trust was always there because we knew that our intentions were the same, which is also probably why what you were saying before about how your differences actually didn't make a difference in a negative way, because you both have such a deep rooted intention that even if anything is. But even if there was something that you like. Oh, gosh. Like. But as soon as you take us off back to the intention, you guys are like, oh, and there were a.

Those things, yeah, there were naturally, which could bring feuds to people, but because of how deep rooted everything was for you, it kind of just didn't hit that strongly.

We we just we just had to talk and talk it through. I remember we had a long phone call because we were trying to do we were trying to do creative things over over long distance.

And there were other artists that were involved.

And, you know, we just had to call each other and just be like, man, yeah, this is really hard.

And that was that was really healing for both of us, I feel, just to be able to express that to one another and to be able to, like, kind of come back and be like, this is why we're doing this. Let's not stress about something in a material sense, because that's not why we're doing it anyway. So that was a good combo. Yeah, that was wonderful.

And even I was I would say, even in terms of the musicality of what we were doing, like, you know, Willow was was taking the role of producer and and I know it takes me a lot to sort of sometimes break out of the box of the sound of what I what I do, which is often rooted quite in the traditional origins of the character and tradition. So I remember we were playing with different sounds and with, you know, kind of sounds and electronic sounds and and Willow was getting so excited.

I'm a little sampler and I and I was just sitting behind her like, OK, let's see where this goes. But I always, you know, initially I was like, OK, let's see. But then I really felt a sense of trust because I knew, as we've said, that we were both aiming for people to have this heart connection with the music. So I was like, I'm going to see where will it take that?

And I trust, you know, we're both aiming for the same space. And that's a beautiful thing.

And there were a lot of things that at first seemed to you to be like, oh, that sounds there's a little deep that's a deep bass.

And I'm like, but trust me, Jahnavi, people are going to hear this and go, oh, it's going to hit right in their chest. And then you hear it. And then you're like, oh, wow. Like, I see I see this and I feel that. Exactly.

And it's like, so, you know, just going to say how you guys I'm communicating now, you can just see there's no ego involved in it. It's like you're like, yeah, you were right and you're like you were right. And just the communication I imagine is so difficult even in relationships, it's it's sometimes difficult. Even if you know someone for such a long time, you're sometimes scared of saying something that you think might hurt their feelings.

But, you know, you guys have such an honest you've built a foundation on honesty and integrity. And so it's easy for you guys to communicate because you know where that person's coming from. One hundred percent.

Yeah, I think it's a really important part of the story that you guys created this during covid, during lockdown, being in different parts of the world for a big part of this work, coming together for a very short part of it. It's like you created a really collaborative piece at a time when the music needed most at a time when it's actually difficult to be collaborative and creative, like the way the relationship you guys built. Just anyone who's listening or watching right now.

It's fun to watch you both just go back and forth. But to think about the fact that you've actually done this at a time when you weren't always in the same room, I think that's a really important thing to honor. And what I'm intrigued by now is to understand from both of you and to hear from both of you about your own journey. Well, I will start with you in terms of tell us about your own journey.

You've been sharing so much more about mental health anxiety, your own healing, always through your music, but also through your words. Tell us about your journey towards wanting to do more, even more healing devotional music that you felt is going to help people this year because this collaboration you both created this year was truly wanting to help people with the pain that everyone's been going through. So tell us a bit about your journey to that over the last decade.

Oh, yeah, it's it's a lot.

I mean, I don't want to go into, like, my whole life story, but I mean, is that what I'm listening?

Should I do that or should I have. Your heart wants to go with me, you know, whatever you genuinely feel like sharing from. Totally.

Yeah. So my first interest in the lifestyle of just integrity and spirituality and meditation, I was introduced to that at a very young age. My mother had a bunch of beautiful art pieces and books about Hindu gods and goddesses. And I would just sit on the floor of her meditation room and just like, look at these beautiful photos and read, you know, about the sentiments of these gods and goddesses. And from a very young age, I was so encapsulated by that and so inspired by that.

And, you know, fast forward to, you know, me doing all the whip my hair stuff and being a pop star and having to realize that that's not the content that I wanted to put out. To the world, that's that's not really the person that I wanted to be, and that was a really difficult decision to make. What made you realize that?

Oh, I would go out and I would be with peers like kids my age and I would just be stopped and constantly, oh, that's the girl from with my hair.

Oh, can you do it?

And I just saw my other friends being able to live and being able to have experiences and being able to make mistakes and not have the whole world know what's going on with them. And so that kind of made me think like. Is this. Really, truly, the life that I want to be living like I want to actually live, I don't just want to be like a caricature for the world to look at, you know?

So that took a lot of courage to just say, you know what, I'm not going to continue.

There were a lot of people who had invested in me. There were projects that were already paid for, scripts that were already written that I had to go back on. I'm surprised that I didn't get sued.

It was a crazy time. But through that, I was like, OK, now that I'm free of this lifestyle that I don't want to live now. What's the lifestyle I want to live? And so I was so confused. I kind of went into a just a spiral of just like depression, desperation. I was self harming. I was hanging out with people that were just wrong for me. And that lasted for about two to three years. And then I started realizing this is psychotic, literally, like I have to stop doing this.

This is not all this is not the person I want to be either.

So I was like, OK, I hadn't been recording music during that time. So I was like, really in the dark, like no creative outlet, no one doing anything creative.

No, I was really just in the dark, in the darkness, I should say.

And so then I started kind of coming out of my shell and trying to get back into the studio, which felt so like weird and daunting because I was like, what do I make?

Like, am I going to go back and just be like, hey, like, what am I going to do? You know what I mean? So, like, the first song that I had put out was it was called Sugar and Spice. You could probably find it somewhere, but it was a Radiohead or Radiohead loop.

And I remember just listening to that and going. I think I think I can continue like that little spark of, like, inspiration was just like boom. Like I think I'm I think I'm coming back. And so, you know, ever since then, I've just been kind of digging more into that. And as I've gone deeper just over that time of just, you know, trying different types of music out, learning how to play the guitar, I just really realized that I just want to be in service.

The only thing that makes, you know, having this lifestyle worth it and for me to feel like I'm I have a purpose at all and to not fall back into that dark spiral was making music that I felt would inspire people and that I felt would be in service to others. And that's really the only reason why I feel like I got out of that dark place, because people would come to me and tell me, you know, that they were in that same dark space that I was and that my voice brought them out of that.

And that would just bring me so much joy and and just just make me feel like I had a purpose.

Like there's there's a reason why I have all of these resources and why, you know, people are looking at me and why I'm in the tabloids and all of this. And so it just gave me a reason.

And this is just expanding on that reason.

And I'm just so excited to to continue to expand that reason and to grow that reason and to help that reason spread to others who. Thank you. Very beautiful.

Thank you so much. Thank you. That's that's that's phenomenal. It's amazing how you came to that conclusion for yourself. That service is where you wanted to be. And that's at the heart of the music like that is it's it's incredible to hear you explain just the natural challenges that come with your experience of life and the kind of back and forth and the recognition of both that I don't want to be there, but I also don't want to be.

Exactly. That's that's. Thank you so much for sharing that. Well, before the age of 20. I know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Religious. Just the crazy, like crazy life, y'all. Oh, I love it.

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And Javier, what I hear from you, because so as I was saying before Geneva, I have known each other for 15 years, rather, is probably known for like 10 years since 2000 and 12 ish.

I know. I heard Janvi 2010, right? Yeah. A good 10 years and known each other for.

But I was a fan girl. First time we met Roddy was like, this is the tattoo. I got fired by your mother and she was like, oh OK. That is like that's not what you meant.

But but you know Jahnavi, you grew up in the Bugti tradition. Yeah. And so this music has been a part of your life forever and it's been a part of your soul. But also it was different being someone who's a consumer of it or hearing it, but then to actually creating and sharing it like that journey must have been really interesting. Can you share that with us, that transition of growing up, listening to it, but then actually being someone who's sharing this tradition and culture so widely?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I grew up being involved in it all the time, every day, really. You know, we would do I attended a school at the temple that was very near to my house. So the school was you know, we did regular academic subjects, but we also studied the Bhagavad Gita and we did chanting together before we started our school day. So that was very normal. But it was it was collective. It was you know, I wasn't singing on my own or anything.

And also my dad was very well known as a singer of kirtan all over all over Europe and other countries of the world.

Back in the cassette tape days, the cassettes used to be everywhere.

And so as I got older, I mean, he was like, you know, he was like, here he is a hero to me. But we loved his singing. And and I felt I mean, I always loved music, but as I got older, people will be like, oh, do you sing like your dad?

And like like singing, you know? Yeah, well, you must know nothing about that. So nothing know. I mean, you know. I know.

Um, so I think I was I was quite shy as a very shy and introverted.

And I also felt this pressure that people are like wanting to see if I'm also going to be like my dad.

And and so I just I was too shy to I didn't really know that.

I knew I could sing because I sang, you know, in my in my bedroom, in the shower.

And I didn't know. I remember actually I went to regular school for a few years and the my in my first year of regular school. And this is something we share as well, like a bit of unusual schooling experiences. But I was so shy and I was it was because, you know, growing up with this tradition, I knew that, OK, I'm a little bit different from other other kids. And, you know, I've grown from the age of four talking about life and death and the body being like a coat that, you know, you take off and put on a new body like these kind of concepts, reincarnation and karma.

And kids don't talk about that stuff.

So I was really, really shy. And the school play was the end of your school play was The Wizard of Oz. And my teacher cast me as the Cowardly Lion because I think she knew that it would help me to you know, she she could see that I was shy, but it would be good for me to play a role that would kind of bring me out of myself. So I remember I had to sing a song on my own on the stage and like, you know, swing my tail.

And it was this moment where I was like, oh, my God, I'm singing in front of people. And it's actually it's nice, you know. But but but that was it then for many years. And it wasn't till I was 19, 20 around your age that I started to lead.

Certain people were kind of just friends were just encouraging me.

And I found that it was something that I felt more and more connected with.

But it is because it's it's such a it's such a deep tradition and it's a form of prayer.

Form of worship is kind of a thing where you have to navigate your ego because it's not it's not a it's not a performance genre of music.

It's it's a prayer and an offering.

So for many years, I was I didn't I didn't really identify with being a person to sort of go out in the world and, like, share this with lots of people.

It was just something I did and within my community. But by circumstance goes, you know, sometimes destiny finds you and and you try and. Push something away many times, I think, you know, Jay and I, we've had probably many conversations over the years. I've been like, I just don't know if this is what I meant to do or like I do this, you know, that kind of thing where you keep trying to turn away from something.

But it kept coming and you kept knocking on doors, just kept on trying to go. No music, no music.

I was like, yes, yeah.

You know, when you have to write a on a form, you know, occupation. And I would always stop and be like, what do I write there? You know, am I because I was a I, I, I wrote, I did art, I was a dancer, but I didn't want to write musician or artist or writer.

I just didn't know what to write because I didn't fully identify with being able to say this is what I am.

So yeah, it came it came bit by bit.

And I think one of the big catalysts for me with feeling confident to try to accept the role of, you know, embracing my my creativity and engaging it in service of spreading this type of music more is the fact that yoga, meditation, mindfulness, those things over the last ten years became so much more mainstream than they ever were.

And when I was a child, I never would have imagined that would be the case.

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But now it's like, no, this is pretty, pretty normal, especially in L.A..

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Go to zip recruiter. Come forward on purpose. Recruiter The smartest way to hire. There's such a pressure these days for young people especially to find their purpose or discover what they want to do for the rest of their lives. And you can see in both of the way you are experiencing it's kind of not been like that. It's kind of been much more of this meandering path than kind of getting lost and then refining and then feeling stuck and then questioning everything and then finding it.

And there's almost like magical approach to like, I found my purpose. So I found my, you know, calling it doesn't work like that. And it's nice to see two people who are creating an autistic, but it's kind of coming over time.

It's such a it's such a process. It's such a journey. And there's so many internal obstacles that need to be looked at and that need to be worked on until you can step into your calling, until you can step into your purpose fully. Oh, and God knows, I'm still trying to step in.

Yeah, I'm still trying to step in. What would you say to both of you? I don't know. Daily things that you do in your lives that help enrich you or uplift you. One of the things that you've started to do. Yeah, I think on a daily basis, because I feel like that the things that really make, you know, a difference if you're doing something regularly. Consistently. Yeah.

I lost a few of you. I haven't. I haven't. But thank you.

Please, please continue. Well, I find that daily meditation I practice Munther meditation daily, and that is something that I really hold on to like. I imagine, you know, if you take life to be like a river, that is the current is flowing very fast in some of these sacred rivers in India where people they take a dip, you know, as a purifying kind of act. They have these metal chains that are in the water that you hold on to when you go in to make sure you don't get swept away.

So I see the the mantra meditation as sort of like this chain to hold on to in the rushing current of life.

And it really even though it's not it's not easy. I know Willow has, you know, a yoga practice you've been cultivating for a long time. To do anything daily is not an easy thing. And you don't always feel like doing it.

And sometimes you do it robotically and then you're like, oh, you know, I got to come back to, you know, the deeper reason of why I'm doing this. But to just keep that commitment, it develops a relationship with sacred space within.

It develops a relationship with the divine. That really is. It's a life saver. It's it's it gives me inspiration. It gives me a sense of connection.

And and it's a meditation that the particular mantra that I that I recite daily, the meditation is on how can I be of service and a prayer for service. Please allow me to be of service in this life. So I love how Willow was describing that, that that service.

It brings you out of that space, because every day we have to push against our tendency to be self-absorbed.

It's like every moment we tend to be caught in our head thinking about our own worries and things like that. And to turn that around to how can I serve? It's it's such a dramatic, you know, state change. And so for me, that helps.

It helps then, you know, whether I'm doing one thing or another just to keep connecting with that core reason of why of what is.

Yeah. What is the purpose of my existence to serve. It makes things it makes things a lot more simpler and joyful.

It won't be perfect, but it's time to short the circuit. Don't be nervous, run towards the light and I to a higher purpose. I was knocking on the door from the inside. It will be good food, but it's hard to short circuit. Don't be nervous, run towards the light. I need to live a higher purpose, almost knocking on the door from the inside. I am just going to piggyback off what Jahnavi said. Yes, I've been cultivating a yoga practice for about, I want to say, two years.

You know, we see those first moves. Yeah, yeah. I want to say two years, a year and a half. And, you know, another thing, aside from meditation that I try to do daily, sometimes it doesn't happen. I read every day right now I'm reading into Engineering by Sadhguru. So that's something that I've been putting my time into every day.

So whether it's, you know, literature, yoga or meditation, one of those things is happening every day.

So I'm just like Jahnavi said, I truly believe that that consistency and that repetition is what's needed in order to get into a state where it is second nature where you don't have to think about it anymore, where it's habitual. Exactly. And that's that's where I'm trying to be the driving to.

I think what you both are doing, keeping it consistent, that's probably how, you know, you've realized what the benefits are, that living a life without it, that feels more unnatural then than doing the practice. And I was also thinking, what was I thinking about when they were speaking? Oh, I was thinking about how, you know, both of your practices are things which people have been doing for years, such an ancient thing that people have been doing.

But what's incredible about your music is that it's I think it's shown so many people who are probably unfamiliar with meditation, unfamiliar with yoga, or see it as something that's so unfamiliar that, you know, meditation, music or music is for everybody. Like, it's such a universal thing that so many different types of people can connect to it just by your different backgrounds that you two have connected to it in such a different way.

And how you're sharing it, it's yeah, it's beautiful to see how different meditation, music and devotional music can actually be and how many different types of people it can it can connect. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm glad you put that base on it so I can tell you that I knew that I knew it. I love it.

The first time I had I was telling Javiera, just like you, it's just all the music. What you've made is it's like that perfect combination between being timeless and pure, but then being current and relevant.

And you've created in my in my opinion, whatever it's worth, like it sounds like a no genre. Like it's it's new. It's different. It's it's not. You can't just go. Oh yeah. That's that kind of music. I wouldn't even put it on meditational like it's it's beyond that. And I think that, you know, credit to both of your artistry to be able to expand that much. What's different about creating devotional music for both of you and Jahnavi, for you to to stretch out of your comfort zone from a music place of now creating this new genre that you have together?

So for Willo, for you, more like what's what's different about Krein devotional music for you from your perspective and the Jahnavi from yours, like almost going the other way and like, oh, now we're carrying something a bit newer to what it used to. Yeah.

You know, my lyrics that you know, in the Willo album and in Ardipithecus my first album, you know, I talk a lot about duality, I talk a lot about spirit.

I talk a lot about, you know, cycles. I have a song that's called Cycles on on my first album.

But it's very the language is very modern and it's very what I love about Sanskrit is that it it's deeper than language.

And I think the real difference is bringing that ancient vibration to it.

That isn't just coming from me. It's coming from generations and generations of of deeply spiritual individuals who have carried this on.

And I think, you know, feeling that is is the biggest difference for me, because it's not just me coming up with something.

Yeah. Wow. Powerful. That's really powerful. Yeah, that's incredible to think of it like that. That's so well articulated. That's beautiful. Thank you.

So you accept me. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Wow. Wow.

I've just been, I've been hit by your, by your articulation of that. That's so beautiful. Yeah. I think it's so interesting because I think for me it was almost I wouldn't say the opposite because naturally we're trying to retain the the purity of the emotional space.

And like with recording, we set up a little altar, like in in the studio. It's it's really nice to have that feel to be a sacred space tension like making it.

Yeah, but with this EP because most of the. I'm singing mantra, which I which obviously those words are not mine, I'm putting my heart and my prayer into it, but I'm also trusting the power of that ancient vibration, that timeless vibration to touch the heart of another. And for that reason, I don't I don't take credit when someone has, you know, a powerful experience with it. It's like, oh, yeah, that's that's what it does.

That's what it does to me, too. So I'm just trying to, you know, be facilitate this experience.

But with this album, I definitely was stretching myself because I think just before we came together, I was I'd been recently feeling a lot more inspired to to write lyrics in English that convey some of these ideas and themes, which is daunting for me, because it's not something I it's something I hardly ever do, let alone record. I have tons of voice notes in my phone, which we'll never see the light of day, the ideas that I've had.

But it was so cool because I didn't think we would actually work on those things.

But when I showed some of them to Willow's, she was so encouraging and excited about it.

And I was sort of like, well, what do you think?

Like, you add your lyrics into she was like, no, I love this. I think we should go for it. I was like, Really?

And then so to actually bring some of those ideas to life, for me, that was a beautiful experience of being able to come outside of the space of, OK, this is just mantra. It's not me.

But here's this, here's this, you know, ancient sound vibration to actually hear some words that I wrote which convey how I want to, you know, take a snapshot of this this sentiment, for instance, of surrender or what you have experienced, how I have experienced or what or what's meaningful to me or to us, you know, and for me, that was a really that was extremely powerful.

I came away being like, whoa, I didn't know I could, you know, so I'm so grateful for that.

Yeah, it was it was it was beautiful.

Yeah. I could feel I could feel that that sense of hesitancy. That's why I was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, let's go fly. Yeah. Was like, let's do it. Yeah, yeah. Because I was like you.

You don't know the greatness of you today. Yeah.

Both of you live real lives in the real world, you know, you go through your challenges every single day and people who listen to this are going through their own challenges. What's been something that's been really beautiful and powerful for both of you individually that you feel has helped you discover answers at tough times or find new directions at tough times. What is it that both of you have turned to in your own life, whether it be musical or not, that that you think that almost what is it that people can do to express themselves more?

Because it feels like so many of our feelings do get bottled up and and do just get thought about inside. What has been powerful for you individually? I mean, it might it might be a little unorthodox, but I actually really, really enjoy looking at myself in the mirror and explaining like like telling like having a conversation with myself, basically, like when I'm when I'm having tough emotions that I feel like I don't want to express to other people or I feel like embarrassed or whatever it is.

I always try to, like, just look at myself and be like, no, you're valid.

Like explain the full depth of everything that you're feeling and then look at yourself and like explain back to yourself why why those emotions are not why those emotions are OK, but accepting yourself in a certain way.

And, you know, sometimes when the face time doesn't work and people don't answer their phone, you can talk to yourself.

And it does work. It does work for me. It does.

I love that. So good. Yeah. I've never heard anyone do that in the mirror. I think I'm journaling to another level. Yes. You actually facing yourself, which I think a lot of the times we are battling with our own self rather than with other people. And so actually like looking at yourself in the mirror and and speaking to yourself is so powerful.

It gets deep, the tears start flowing and then you start looking. Exactly. And you're like, dang, like I see you like you're we're together in this. Like we got each other.

I love that. Yeah. That, that's awesome. I hope everyone tries that out this week. Yeah. I'm listening and watching. Try it out.

I mean sometimes I feel weird saying it because some people you know are like that's ridiculous but. I've done it no, and it has stopped the tears. That's great. Yeah, I was thinking, as you were speaking, that for me, writing has always been a powerful one.

And it's funny because I, I think of the page being like a mirror, and I think many people find writing to be like that to the point where I remember some difficult points in my life where I didn't write for a very long time, for probably two years. I didn't write anything on a page because I was afraid of what will come out and what I would see.

I felt just this complete block, you know, and then to release that to start, I always feel such a relief when I put a pen on the paper and start to write. And I was introduced to the practice of free writing some some years ago. There's a famous book called The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. And this practice of morning pages is something that many people have found a lot of. Yeah, just incredible experiences from. So I started to do that and I still turn to that when I I mean, I tried to do it regularly, but it's also one of those things.

You go through phases, you know, but for me. Yeah. So writing is is always a huge, huge help. I mean, stating the obvious, I think, you know, Kitaen meditation, music, of course. But my other huge one, which I think will only share is, is to connect with nature just to walk.

I mean, I think I try and go for a walk in nature every day. And without fail, it's like a balm. It's uplifting. It brings me back to myself. It sparks ideas and creativity. It's it's just like the road and the page there, my two friends that really helped me so much time to work and ask why and when. Hide from the questions that face. Whether I can't go around again. I can't go around again.

Hmm, I love that, I love that that's so awesome and and I guess that's what's inspired a lot of your work. I know, Jahnavi, whenever you're doing your BBC pause for thought sessions, you talk a lot about the environment and climate change and and that. Where where do you see that intersection between, like, art and the environment or climate change or expression and that is there a synergy there or is it just something that you feel is a different part of you where your care comes from?

Hmm.

I think it's absolutely intertwined. I mean, nature is the most beautiful art that we can witness and observe. I'm so inspired by by the natural world. And my mum is a really avid gardener and a lover of, you know, wild plants and herbs. And she sort of brought us up like that to observe and learn about all the properties of plants and trees around us.

So I'm kind of obsessed with plants and flowers and people laugh at me.

But it's like I'm always looking at inspired by the textures, by the shapes, by the by the different aromas.

Yeah, everything. And so our nature inspires me creatively, immensely.

And in terms of caring for nature, I think like like a person, the more you know a person, the more you care.

So the more we observe and connect and feel a sense of relationship with nature that care.

It's like, why wouldn't I care that it's it's a it's a beautiful exchange and is me.

Absolutely. There's a mutual exchange of nourishment going on.

And I think also with the particular type of creativity and art, you know, the questions that I'm asking are that we are asking about service, about divinity, these these kinds of these kinds of things. They bring us also closer to our deepest essence, which I believe is is meant to be in harmony with nature. So the more that you the more that you're coming into that space again, it just becomes a very natural connection to feel. And so, yeah, I'm kind of a nature addict.

And I and I know, like when I visited Willow in her home, you know, there's such a beautiful view of the ocean and it's like it's it's just a it's a part of you, right?

Yeah. I want to go to Jefferson. I have to I would I think a significant decline in my mental health would happen if I were to live in a city. Yeah. Or I mean, I do live in a city.

But if I were to live amongst buildings exactly like I need to wake up and see trees, I need to see one tree.

Exactly. At least at least one I need it's I'm a nature addict. What can I say? It's just like you. Yeah. And that's definitely one of the biggest healing agents in my life. One hundred percent.

Yeah. Well, we've been talking about this for a couple of days about how you see this connection between spirituality and science and. It's virtually going to get, you know, and and your your you've always been very much talking about like science and physics and like but then you're also really interested in spirituality. Tell us about how you started to see so early in your life the connection and synergy between the two, because I think so often they talked about so separately, 100.

They're seen as like divisive or disconnected. Exactly. Yeah.

I think one of the the biggest the biggest moments in my life that made me really move towards this marriage of of spirituality and science was you know, I had been reading a lot of spiritual literature.

I had been reading a lot of Osho, a lot of I read this one book called Oneness.

I think Russia from Russia, I think, or Ramah, but it's called Oneness.

And that book changed my life forever.

And just the idea of vibration and that everything is vibration really hit me because I am a musician and music is like the biggest love of my life.

And then learning about string theory was just opened my mind into such a place that it was like. These two things are the same, like people think that they're separate and in some ways they are, but in the fundament they're just two sides of the same coin.

And so that inspired me to just dive really deep into the physical world and just how things work. And that's how I just got into physics and started studying physics. And, you know, I haven't been I've been studying more of the spiritual lane recently. And it's hard. It's hard, I will say, to study them deeply at the same time. But I, I study them separately, deeply, and I go back and forth and then try to figure out how to bring them together in some way.

But in my life, you know, I'm constantly I'm constantly relating my spiritual experiences with, you know, all of the scientific things that I've read or, you know, just being in physics class and telling my physics teacher, like, oh, you should read this book.

And he's like, OK, I'm a physics teacher. I'm not a metaphysics teacher.

So I just I just want to continue to just get more intelligent and and more intelligent while also losing my ego, I think is where I'm trying to go, which is kind of counterintuitive, but I think it is possible.

And intelligence and service.

Exactly. And so that's that's really just I have lots of goals, but that's one of them.

Save the world. Exactly.

I have lots of goals, but they all give me joy and and really just my curiosity for both makes makes life just exciting.

You know, those those two things just make my life feel exciting to me.

Yeah. I actually think that that that paradox is what makes it exciting. Yeah. If your pursuit was only to become intelligent, you'd get bored. Exactly. And if you pursue it was only to remove ego, it wouldn't be as exciting and quite tough. And so actually both together is is a beautiful path and and often the path that can only be walked when you do both paths to route to really get it right. So I love the. Well, you know, and I want I want I want to add something, that's also why I really admire you, Jay, because you while also having been a monk for five years, three, three years, you are also one of the most intelligent people I know.

And that's so inspiring to see that you can do both and that both can be done. It just inspires me to do it. It just inspires me to try to actually try to actually put that into my own life.

And I'm just so happy that you're you're in my life so that I can I can see you grow and constantly learn from you.

And that's really amazing to me.

Oh, you're the sweetest guy. And again, all of. But now we're just all be crying. You know, I love that. I really appreciate that. Yeah.

You know, I was like, really forty year old grandma inside talking. And I'm just proud.

I know and I know. I really appreciate that from you. It's you know, it's I think we both have a lot more in common than we know to be kind of discovering it. And I love seeing you guys. Have you? Yes. I'm just like, oh yeah, I can learn a lot.

And that's why I think what we all were to my yesterdays and I think why we all like being around each other is and why who everyone is listening or watching. I'm hoping that this is encouraging you to connect with like minded people, connect with and collaborate with people that you're close to, because when you can be yourself and you don't have to apologize by asking for permission to say something or expressing who you are and you welcome that, I think that's the kind of community that we're all looking forward to when people just try it right to say.

Sahu Songa. Yeah, yeah. Oh, there we go. Thanking us. Yeah. So satisfying for those who don't know Will is now going to give the definition is going to be basically your spiritual family, you know, the like minded individuals around you that facilitate your growth towards pure love for God.

And that is that's fire in my eyes.

I want to get, like, drunk and be like.

We end every series with a fill in the blank and a final five to fill in the blank is as it I do this all the time.

You throw this together. Fill in the blank is as it is. We'll read out a sentence for both of you and you both will fill in the blank. We've got different ones for both.

I'm going to have them do OK. And then we're going to do a final five. So we'll start with fill in the blank. And you do Willow al-Janabi.

OK, making music is about unlocking people's hearts.

Peace is found when when my actions are in alignment with my values and my heart, my love that I want my listeners to.

I want my listeners to break down. In Dance with the love of God. That's what I want.

I love that like that massive dance party we had the day before. Yes, yes, yes. OK. Music allows me to. Fly and vulnerability allows me to be strong. The word rise is about. Moving up. Going into my heart and like we said in the song, don't hide from the questions within that rise within hide from the questions that arise. That's that is that is really good. That's right, yeah. Questions arise inside and we just try and we try and push them down.

Yeah, I love that.

I wish I knew 10 years ago that. Oh, other people's opinions don't matter.

OK. January twenty twenty has allowed me to create as I haven't before in the past.

Well we allow creativity is about. Creativity is about expressing oneself entirely of collaboration is about. Listening. Oh, yes, yes, Jahnavi, is that I feel cute when this one's obviously gone from J's list of questions, I feel Culham Perama is coming onto me and I'm loving God. Me, you feel cute when I feel cute when I'm around Rathi boy, you don't have do it really well. OK, so these are the final four.

That was very good by the way you guys final five.

So these have to be answered in one word or one sentence. Máximo and they're the same questions for both of you. OK, what is the biggest lesson that you've learned this year. Detachment NitroMed. Beautiful. The power of community members of the ACC, the second question is, this is one of my favorite questions I ask on the show. So what do you know to be absolutely true, but a lot of people may disagree with you on.

Oh, oh. Do you know to be. Absolutely.

What is it that you're so confident about and so sure about in your life. But a lot of people may disagree and they may not they may not necessarily understand.

Self-love is the most important love myself, but I don't know if anyone would disagree. I'd say. Connection with spirit and the Divine is essential for a purposeful life. Mhm. Yes, yeah, I can see people.

Yes. Yeah. All right. The third question is, if you could set one law that everyone had to follow in the world. Wow. What would it be. It's either treat people the way you want to be treated or treat people with the utmost respect at all times, no matter what.

Mm hmm. I feel like that would help a lot of the wars. Yeah. And a lot of the inequality that goes on.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. One of the ones I want will those laws.

But also I was thinking a lot, I don't know how this would actually be manifest or policed, but a law to about being truthful and honest.

Can you imagine if. Yeah.

Everyone had to be truthful and to be integrity to one's word.

Yeah. What a place the world would look like with along with will those laws of love and respect.

OK, so two two more questions left. Ford question is, what is your personal favorite song on the EP and why? So you can be over one sentence.

Obviously, I have to say born to give me just because the instrumentation, it's like when do you ever hear a guitar solo on top of a on top of a mantra that's being repeated like we're saying Satchidananda like electric guitar solo. Oh yeah.

While Satchidananda is being repeated, I just was like I'd never heard anything like that.

So I was like, I really love this moment. I think that would be my favorite song. I love that. That's cool. That's a good reason.

Yeah, it's really I mean, honestly, I actually do love them all equally. But Gajendra or Let Go is one of my favorites because I love the story that it's connected to, which is from the Bugti tradition.

And this this theme of surrender is is so meaningful to me, but to express it in in English lyrics and yeah, I just love it and I love that.

I love this bridge. A lot of people have been posting themselves singing it.

Yeah. I just I just love that.

I was telling Willow that I a couple like a few weeks before we met up, I, I watched Hamilton when it went streaming online and I was so inspired by the lyrics and the way that the the music was composed and constructed.

And I think that was in my head a little bit when I heard this. So yeah, I love that song.

And lastly, the most important one, both of you do an impression of each other from your experience in the studio, 100 percent. Perfection, perfection literally means I feel like there would be such a vibe. That's me.

And then and then when I'm like on the keyboard trying to find the sound, trying to be like, OK, I could I could see that. Maybe I could see that. And I'm like, OK, she doesn't like this. Let's move my favorite. Well, that's differently. Yeah, it's different.

Yesterday when we were talking about the guitar, I was like, oh, I kept on saying that I was like is different and that is different. It's a great thing. I love it. Everyone, Willow and Jahnavi go and listen to the Ryze people. Put the link everywhere. Please, please go and check it out. It's it's beautiful.

Open it and fill it with so much joy. You know, we really want you to go check it out.

And thank you so much for listening today. Thank you so much. And if you don't already go and follow Willow and John, have you on Instagram and tag us when you share it, tag them when you share it, because we want to hear you guys singing along. We want to see you finding your peers, finding your calm. And so please, please, please tag them when you share it because they'll be looking out. We'll be looking out.

And we're so grateful again to have you here on purpose. Thank you so much. Big thank you to Robbie Vorhaus for doing this for me today. Yeah. Yeah. Made the cup regular.

Thank you, guys. Thank. This is one.

This podcast was produced by Dust Light Productions, our executive producer from Dust lt is Michelle Yusuf. Our senior producer is Julianna Bradley. Our associate producer is Jacqueline Castillo. Valentino Rivera is our engineer. Our music is from Blue Dot Sessions and special thanks to Rachel Garcia, the dust like development and operations coordinator. Oh. Why, hello, it's your old pal, Sarah Silverman, and I have a podcast called the Sarah Silverman Podcast. Yeah, I could have been more creative with the title, but you never go.

Hey, did you see last week tonight, Mel, you say did you catch John Oliver? So, yeah, I'm a dreamer, but I'm a realist. I talk about all kinds of stuff from politics to breakfast cereal and everything in between. What are there like three to four things in between? I'm super smart. I'm super dumb. I have strong opinions, which I might change completely tomorrow. You're not always going to agree with me, but I don't know.

I'm doing the best I can with what I've been given. If you don't like it, give me more.

For all you foodies out there, I'm unwrapping a McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel. Look at this steak and the juice running down the side. Get a little bit on the wrapper here. And then a fluffy egg and real cheese floated over the side, looking just so good. Mm hmm. Grilled onions and about a bagel, two thumbs up, a McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love it.

Bah bah bah bah bah. I participate in McDonald's.