Where the bodies are buried contains graphic depictions of violence that some listeners may find disturbing discretion is advised. Forget what you've heard about serial killers. Forget the movies, podcasts and stories in the media of infamous psychopaths like Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy.

I'm going to show you what exists beyond all of that. And you will hear from the source, the killers themselves. This is where the bodies are buried.

Me free. My name is Phil Chalmers. For over 35 years, I've dedicated my life to communicating with and studying hundreds of serial killers, teen killers, school shooters and mass murderers. I helped solve cold cases, locate bodies and bring closure to hurting families of the victim. Joining me is my wife, Wendy, and my producers, Adam and Samantha. Samantha, you ready? Yep. All right. We're rolling.

One, two. All right. We are grateful to have so many fans of where the bodies are buried, as I promised, I will get you updates on previous episodes and new information. I'm starting with the William Clyde Gibson episode. This one was an important one to me.

William Clyde Gibson was the serial killer we featured in the very first episode of this series.

First, a quick recap of his college from a correction facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Hey, Mr. Feeny, hard to get a hold of.

You know, if I don't answer, you keep calling William Gibson. We're talking to you here. But his nickname is Clyde. You're in prison for multiple murders. First of all, tell us why you're in prison and what your sentences.

I got two dissenters and one 65 year sentence, and they're all for murders or animal mutilation. And the rest of the parts, they shouldn't be stuff like that. I mean, just treacherous stuff. I'm where I belong.

I know that Clyde Gibson has admitted to killing three people. He's only convicted of three murders. He killed a 75 year old family friend and he gave them murder 10 years earlier because he wanted to show that I've been kill him for at least a decade. And then he gave them another murder, a woman who was buried in his backyard. They don't even believe she was there. But they found her and he said, You think I've only killed three?

I've killed a lot more than that.

In that episode, he admitted to the murder of a 20 year old cold case involving Elizabeth Bannister. We talked to Elizabeth's sister, Sarah Stewart, and we will be talking to her again today. But now you will hear firsthand details from a reporter who covered the William Clyde Gibson case from the time he was arrested through his trial. I am joined by Scott Ekins, who covered the Clyde Gibson case in 2013. Hey, Scott, what are you doing today?

What is your job?

I'm a publicist and I represent a variety of artists, actors and influencers, everyone from Dennis Quaid to Billy Ray Cyrus to Daniel Tucker. I got into television broadcasting, so I became a TV reporter until I turned 30. And one of the very last cases that I covered was William Clyde Gibson. Wow.

So you're in southern Indiana. It's kind of quiet down there. It's almost a suburb of Louisville, Kentucky. What was it like and what did the Gibson case do to that area? How did it affect the locals?

It gave a lot of people nightmares and including me. I think that was one of the most common sound bites that I got from neighbors and to Albany. I got to tell you, when Scanner's and the NEWSROOM went off about a man on the run from police with a female body parts and the front of his truck, I certainly didn't know I was getting into when I was first on the scene. And so, as you probably learned of the case, it was actually a family member of William Clyde Gibson who came over to the house and discovered some body parts in his garage, and that led to a nine one one and a police chase.

So it all began when we received word over police scanners in the newsroom that there was a police chase. So I was one of the first reporters on the scene at his house when they started putting a police tape and they started removing the body parts that were in his garage. They cover the entire backyard with a white tent so our choppers couldn't see what they were digging up. A couple of days before he was arrested, one of the neighbor's daughters was over at the south showing off their new kitten, her new pet, and he seemed totally normal to everyone in the neighborhood.

Of course, no one knew that he was taking in prostitutes and transients and mutilating them.

So this case really caused you to go into another industry? Yes. And why is that? Well, I was covering his court case. If he was in court, I was there as they brought in new evidence. It was a lot of information to take in. And when you're a news reporter, you got to really separate yourself mentally.

So, Scott, did you ever get close to Clyde Gibson? Did you ever talk to Clyde Gibson? We ever close to him in the courtroom, anything like that?

Yeah, many times I sat right behind him. I'd see different Taxus. At one moment, I saw a tattoo that I thought was one of the victim's initials, which, of course, we never got any any sound bites. But then we never talk to him because he wouldn't say anything when he left court. So that was my experience with him. It was definitely haunting because just the information I was having to learn about every day and report on and talk about as if it was just normal, everyday fodder when really it was just a psychopath.

And he's claimed he killed thirty three people. Do you believe that's all I know is seeing outside of the house where they were digging up bones and bodies. It was certainly chilling to think that. How did he get away with this for so long? And no one ever look outside their door and see him with a shovel, the backyard. Just simple questions that I think we would all ask. That just seems unfathomable at the time now that we're learning about it.

What was Clyde Gibson like in court? Cold, stoic, no expression does nothing. Nothing. All right, Scott, we appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Thank you.

I appreciate your time. We have received questions concerning the call we made a month ago with Elizabeth Banister's sister, Sarah Stewart.

But first, a recap.

This is a prepaid call from William Gibson, an inmate at the Indiana State Prison.

Here's the two things I want to ask you about Clyde. Are you positive you killed Elizabeth Bannister in Evansville, Indiana, which was pretty high profile? Yes.

Elizabeth Bannister is a cold case murder that dates back 20 years. So we know the details of the case. We know that Elizabeth was killed inside of her home, which was split up into little apartments.

Hey, Clyde, how are you? I'm all right. Hey, listen, I'm here with Sarah. Sarah is Elizabeth's sister, and she wants to just ask you a couple questions and talk to you. We just want to make sure you're OK. Are you OK with that? Yeah.

Hello there. Hello, how are you? I'm all right, how are you? Point occupied, I am not angry. I am very. What I want you to understand is 20 years of this, I've had to live for 20 years. All I had was that I had my life. And look, I can tell you this, I'm just I'm sorry you don't have your sister no more.

I mean, I can't say that I'm sorry for the crimes I committed because most of them I'm really not I don't have that in me and I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. You know what I mean?

We recently talked to Sarah Stewart and she gave us an update. Sarah, thank you for talking to us again. Were you surprised after you heard on our podcast, Clyde, confessing to your sister's murder? It's hard to explain when you've had a murderer go for 20 years and if someone comes up and says, hey, we found someone that confessed to your sister's murder within a year like that, quick, the police have been doing it for 20 years.

So I really didn't know how to really react to it prior to this podcast.

What was it like trying to get information on your sister's murder? I don't feel they're doing the part. I'm not saying that they've never worked on this case. I'm saying I don't think they're trying their best. I don't feel the heart is into it. I don't see that with this detective that is on the case.

Now, after the on air confession, what did you expect and what did you want to have happen after hearing that when Christain was revealed?

I wanted a plea deal to be worked out. And that is the only reason why I said, OK, here is the name. This is the guy that's confessing to her murder. The detective was very intrigued when I told him and he was shocked. Like, it's very interesting to find out that it could possibly be a serial killer. They said that I pretty much have to do an investigation. They have to see if there's any connection. Why were you at Evansville at this time?

What brought you to Evansville? Just questions that only Clive could answer. They're not going into it as if he did do it. They're going into it as he could be a potential suspect because he confessed. Still told me that he told Clive, you may have to go to court. Clive was like, well, that's why I just don't want to be at the motel. So he wants to stay where he's at. So I thought that was a big progress.

I agreed with that. This is a 20 year murder. I would be all over that. If I was a captive. I would be like, OK, yeah, let me see if I can work this deal out, because Clyde is willing to give some information. If he can get that, why not take it and run with it? But it's been, what, a month? There's no movement. It's always me reaching out. It's never Deb.

And I'm just really frustrated with the whole system.

What would you like to see happen with this investigation?

What I want is for the police to quit playing around. I've got a confession from Clive Gibson. We agree with going to court, but he doesn't want to stay here. So we'll take him back to the person that is that the reason why they said that they have to look about it is because of finances. They have to look and see are they able to get him back and forth? And I'm here like, what do you mean? Are you able to can I provide you the twenty dollars?

What can people do to help?

I need people to stand up. I need people to cheer. I need people to yell. I need people's voices to be heard. If you don't stick your ground and you don't stand up for yourself and you don't yell and scream and shout and make your voice heard, they will put it in a cold case file.

You got to speak to Clive Gibson over the phone. What was that like for you?

It was a shock, actually. I didn't expect everything that he said the same time as calm as he was. He was like a normal person. He was a person you would see in a store. Hi, how are you today? You know, when he told me he was sorry that he hurt me, that really put a shock to me. I didn't think he would be sorry for anything. Nothing, even though he did admit he was sorry for killing her.

I think Clyde in his own way and people might think I'm crazy but can be a good person, but he may say that he doesn't care that he killed all these people and that he has no remorse for anything. But part of me always wonders if maybe, just maybe he might have a little bit down there. I do forgive him. I will not forgive, but I do forgive him for all the wrong things that he has done.

Has speaking with Clyde Gibson changed the way you talk to and deal with people? Oh, yeah.

If I had met Clyde, like, say, I went to a bar and he was in there, I probably would have held a conversation with him and never even know he was a serial killer. It makes me be more aware of my surroundings and who I speak with. Makes me wonder when I speak to people, man or woman, could they be serial killers?

We received many comments that we sensationalized your sister's murder.

I don't believe that I made the decision myself. I want my voice to be heard. I want my sister's murderer to be heard. And I will speak with whoever I need to speak with to keep her alive. Not that she isn't resting in peace, but I don't think she could rest in peace until this person is found. What better way to do it in a podcast and everybody listening to these podcasts around the world, I was glad that I was asked to do these podcasts after talking with you guys.

You wanted it to be her, too? Absolutely.

We wanted as many people as possible to hear your sister's story. Finally, are you still interested in meeting face to face with your sister's killer, Clyde Gibson?

Yeah, absolutely. The reasoning behind me wanting. To me, it was Clyde Gibson is if I was in person with Clyde during that conversation, I would have been able to tell if he was telling the truth or if he was lying, if I were to meet him, which is going to happen. I want to talk to him. There's so many questions that I want to ask him in person and watch his body language and his eyes. I want to be able to shake his hand.

I want to be able to ask him how he is doing. And people might think that's crazy. But let me tell you a couple of things. I do believe in forgiveness. I will forgive the man who has harmed my sister and I will tell him that. And I want to be able to tell him that person. I don't really want to tell him that over the phone. I know that he's not an emotional person and that Clyde doesn't have emotion, but maybe from the right person he might.

Thanks again for talking to us. We'll keep in touch. All right. Thanks again. And we'll talk soon. So there is a very strong woman and will stop at nothing to see that her sister, Elizabeth's killer, William Clyde Gibson, is brought to justice.

I hope she gets the help she needs from the local police department to finally bring closure to this case.

Next up, we will be revisiting John Robert Williams, one of the killers we featured in a previous episode. He has a new confession that we will be discussing with him.

Hi, Dennis Quaid here, and I wanted to tell you about wrongful conviction podcast's, raw and absolutely riveting and with over 16 million downloads, a wrongful conviction podcast, our Social Justice in Action, featuring stories about and interviews with men and women who have spent decades behind bars for crimes they did not commit.

Some have since been released, while others still face a death sentence or life in prison. But all have been victims of a frighteningly flawed justice system. Wrongful conviction podcast does more than simply tell the stories of those who have been wrongfully imprisoned. The show has inspired me to learn more and to get involved, and I hope it will do the same for you. Listen to Wrongful Conviction podcast wherever you tune in to your favorite podcast. In the episode with serial killer John Robert Williams, I was aware that he was lying many times throughout the interview, he confessed to a murder that I did not want to share with you until I was able to do some fact checking and research.

In September of 2002, Samantha Patrick was kidnapped and murdered in Yukon, Oklahoma. Sadly, her body was discovered next to a grocery store after speaking with law enforcement. It turns out what he said about the murder was actually true. Here is my follow up interview with John Robert Williams about that unsolved case. But first, here is some audio from that episode.

OK, Phil, who is John Williams? John, Robert Williams was a long haul trucker known as the big rig killer, as well as being a serial killer. He was also a rapist. He also had a coconspirator named Rachel Cumberland, who was involved with many of the murders. She helped him lure some of his victims into his big rig semi truck. She was released after serving only eight years of her 20 year prison sentence.

This call is from a correctional facility and may be subject to monitoring and recording.

Hey, John, can you hear me? Yes, we'll do the one confession because you're pretty passionate about this case. Samantha, Renee, Patrick, you really want to close that case? Why is Zach stand out from all your unsolved cases?

I have wondered the same thing for many years, and it is just as I did in my entire life, that one particular case is always, I guess, for lack of a better term, only see why that case as opposed to the other 35.

I never understood why. I don't know what I had thought about it many, many, many times over the past. What now? 18 years.

That's exactly what it was. September 12th, 2002. I remember that because one year after 9/11, I met up with a bad name on the one year anniversary of 9/11 to thirty three o'clock in the morning behind me.

You're confessing to this unsolved case. You're not convicted of this case. So tell us what happens. You pick her up at a truck stop and then she ends up dead five minutes away at an Albertson's store. Tell us how that goes down.

I'll take good care of myself all. I'll be headed back to our place on the mall or click on the Little Pony as if I was coming to Oklahoma and I told you, in fact, I'd be there in about 20 minutes. So she told me which one she was. Yes, I went there. We hung out. We parted. I had Rachel with me. We made out like we just met that night. John King, who was a highly jealous woman, very highly jealous, named Rachel Reeves.

You're doing a little better Christmas, a little bit of a cocktail before. So, you know, my friends, as we like to invite you in my truck with me from the start that I picked up across the highway to a truck stop, well, we've reported little, you know, doing a lot of dough. I'll drink a lot of shares. I got kind of weird shares and take advantage of that. I picked you up there and I said, yeah, no problem.

I got behind the truck and I don't know what made me do it. I said, go to the truck stop. I took a left to get on the highway, went on down the interstate Interstate 40 or 50 miles to were you doing great? Rachel jumped out and had a knife to her throat. Give me your money. She said she didn't had no money. She has eight hours with before. We knew that was a lie because we paid her home at all.

So we get the money if you leave her in a blue jeans. She worked Case Holder along with her Marlboro like and I forget what kind of light is in her Audi. We got her and I told her, I said I graduated. I said, you're going to kill nobody because I know where you live. You know that you're still here. The night I live here one time in a neck with a knife and it's still there. You are going to go over the knife taken in the neck survival mode.

I guess she did have a knife out of my neck down. I went to stab wounds to the war and ended up cutting approach. I mean, I don't even know how to say about it. I know it had me well. I was born thirty times in a row so many times that no one really, really knows her and knows there was a little girl. Rachel was covered in blood. I was covered in blood. And out of the corner of my eye, I see some headlights.

I look across the parking lot of the store. There's a lot of fake. I think it was a bank, but it sounds encyclopedias right there in the parking lot of that grocery store and it was a patrol car. It was a police car. Wasn't even there one minute before there. How he missed out there, you know, is in the middle of the night. There was plenty of light in that area. How he how that car missed out on seeing what happened, I'll never know.

Ready to be when we get into. Drove back to the drugstore to get undressed, get some baby wipes and clean, it was blown off of it. We could put more clothes on, put their clothes in plastic bags. Really sad for you to get a shower. We'll get you into individual clothes and buried.

And, John, what was a Mantha doing when she was stabbed once in the neck and you were stabbing her? Was she screaming, fighting? What was she doing?

No, she was I didn't know what happened. Was it saved and she knew what happened. It was like a like a shock came all the Chicago cries for help. And the news of what is happening is they had hit her yet. And I knew our friend had a small window to act before we lost control of the situation. I had never intended to kill her that night. I had used that. She was one of my regular girls. You're on fire.

And I know I don't know it is there on the floor recently.

I mean, we don't know what number is that from one to thirty six murders.

Number ten, victim number thirty victim Samantha would be for number four. So early. OK, early.

Well and when you were in your truck having sex you all three having sex together like a threesome.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes a little bit Alterio then we'd been in a few hours of being sometimes there has been our marriage or our race or that'd be Alterio. You know, if you have an orgasm, I mean the last three years, lifelessness shoom research. George, I could not remember what happened the day before, but the week before. Wow.

So, John, most of your victims are truckstop sex workers. Is that your preferred victim? Was that the easiest victim for you?

Well, I guess I'm not going to say per victim is just convenience, I guess.

Yeah, it's always tough to tell with this guy whether he's full of shit or not. I understand why you visited his house when he gave you the other confession, even though you thought it was bullshit.

I follow up on most leads and sometimes I do come up empty handed. I think it would be stupid for me not to look into it, even if there's a small chance he's telling the truth so far.

What are the next steps?

After speaking with law enforcement about the Samantha Patrick case, they confirm that the information John Williams gave me is true and it does put him at the scene and he is the killer. So they officially have closed the Samantha Patrick case.

Hey, so we've spoken to such a wide range of killers from guys who eat bodies to Son of Sam to teen killers since we started this podcast. We've received messages asking questions about you and our episodes. And I would love to hear your answers.

I would love to answer your questions. The first question was about this. It says he felt did Delmas die from covid? I need your help.

I need you to call up and raise. Holy hell. What happened? I had to call 19.

I can't fucking breathe it in a that's still just words, which I am a diabetic. I ran out of water at two o'clock. Wow. And I said, that's just words switch which I have pass the fuck out. Delmas did not die.

He was suffering from a bad case of covid and with his medical condition, I was not sure he was going to live.

He has actually been working with law enforcement to help them locate one of his victims bodies that he confessed to on the podcast. Law enforcement has been using his information from the podcast, as well as new information I've provided to try to locate that body and close that case for good.

All right. Well, this next question is one that I would love to know the answer to, especially because my kids are in school and in the back of my head, I am always so worried about school shooters. OK? The question is, Hazelle, I'm a teacher at a small high school. Can you tell me some warning signs that adults should be aware of and looking for?

If you could take away one thing from this show, it's this. This is something that I do a lot of I speak a lot of and I train law enforcement on. There are numerous warning signs, numerous red flags, and they include animal cruelty, fires, starting bedwetting as a teenager, violent drawings, violent posts on social media, threats of murder, fascination with deadly weapons, fascination with violent entertainment, suicidal drug abuse, and many more. If you are a teacher in a high school and you notice the student's behavior changing, you noticed them pulling away from others that he's depressed.

Maybe he's wearing dark clothing, maybe he's drawing violent sketches, maybe he's acting out to get attention. These are some of the signs we see of students who really don't want to commit a school shooting but really want help. Unfortunately, when they don't get help, they sometimes carry out their plans.

Here is another question that I'm sure everyone wants to know the answer to. What is the craziest story you've heard from a serial killer?

Wow. This next one is difficult to answer because of years of talking with these serial killers and monsters. I've quite honestly heard it all. I've got a lot of crazy psychopathic serial killers. One of the craziest serial killers I've ever talked to is going to be on our podcast. His name is Jack Spilman. His nickname is The Werewolf Butcher. The werewolf butcher would kill the victim. He would be buried in the woods. He would come back at night, unbury the victim, have sex with the corpse and rebury it.

That's why he calls himself the werewolf butcher. He would kill three victims. He would stage the scenes very graphically to shock first responders. Thankfully, he was arrested after three murders. Another case, one of the worst crime scenes ever, was a guy named Danny Rolling, known as the Gainesville Ripper. He would kill college students and he would stage the scenes again to shock first responders. To me, the worst killers are the ones who torture, decapitate, dismember, mutilate sex with the dead necrophilia.

These are some of the worst things that serial killers do, Danny, rolling with actually remove the victim's heads and put them on a shelf. So when the police walked in the door, it actually terrified them and that was his goal. So one of the worst serial killers, Danny, rolling the Gainesville Ripper and one of the most sadistic serial killers who we're going to have a chance to talk to is Jack Owen Spilman, the werewolf butcher.

Phil, this next one is about you. It says, I am fascinated with a few killers like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy and BTK. Have you ever talked to any of them?

Well, Charles Manson is not really a killer. He's a cult leader. I have communicated with Charles Manson. He and I exchanged letters. He even sent Wendy and I a Christmas card. Ted Bundy was a little bit before my time, as was Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy. And I'm really bummed that I didn't get a chance to interview those three. But BTK and I have communicated. We've exchanged letters. We talk on the phone. He talks to my wife.

And we've had a pretty friendly relationship, BTK is very limited on his interviews, his prison does not allow him to do any more interviews. So it's very hard to get him to talk about his case or his crimes. But when I do talk to Dennis Rader, BTK, it's like I'm talking to my uncle. It's like I'm talking to my grandfather. He's very humble. He's very gentle and he's very normal. Charles Manson also seem very normal to me in the letters that we exchange.

Sometimes he's all over the board when he's talking in his letters or his writings. It's funny that you mention Charles Manson, Ted Bundy and BTK and what I would say about those three. And I'll throw in John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, they all seem very normal, but behind closed doors, they're monsters.

OK, here's another. Do you ever go visit the killers or is it always over the phone?

My answer is a good portion of my interactions and interviews are in person face to face. But with covid, I haven't been able to do that lately. So most of my interviews now were over the phone. I also correspond with serial killers through email as well as letters.

So I was wondering as well. I spoke with your wife Wendy about this, but I would love to hear what you have to say. Phil, are you ever scared of these guys when you visit them?

My answer is no. Most of these serial killers and killers that I interview are happy to see me. They're happy to have a visitor. Remember, I held them as they held me. So it would be it would be a really rare situation that one of them would want to hurt me. So my answer is no, I am not afraid. Most of the serial killers are friendly to me while in prison. That being said, I would not like to meet them face to face on the street.

As I'm talking to these killers, I never forget the crimes that they committed. I always remember that they are where they need to be behind bars. Some of you have said that I'm too close to these killers to get these killers to talk and confess to unsolved murders. It takes a relationship with them. They do not talk to just anybody. So I've developed a skill over thirty five years of getting to know these killers, forming a relationship with them, getting the information I need.

Phil, thank you so much for answering these questions for us. I'm sure there's going to be more questions with our upcoming episodes.

Please keep sending me messages on my Friends or Monsters fan club and I will respond as quickly as possible. I want to thank all of you for supporting this podcast, telling your friends and relatives and listening to our episodes. We are doing everything we can to close cases and bring closure to victims families. Thank you so much for your support. This podcast is produced by Gridding Dog Entertainment and audio of.