Hey, dear listeners, today's guest is the very talented Chloe Grace Moretz. You know her from the kick ass movies, Carrie Suspiria, the new Tom and Jerry and over 50 other films. She's only twenty four. But as you'll soon find out wise beyond her years later in the episode, I'm happy to welcome a new expert to unqualified Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby. Dr. Bobby is a licensed marriage and family therapist, a board certified life coach, and the founder and clinical director of Growing Self Counseling and Coaching in Denver, Colorado.

Dr. Bobbie has some great advice that I wish someone had given me 20 years ago. As always, I really appreciate all of you that have reached out left comments and reviews. I really do enjoy hearing from you. If you have a story that you want to share, please go to our website, Unqualified Dotcom and find the link to get in touch. OK, here's Chloe.

Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to unqualified qualified with their host unifiers. Chloe Long. A long time coming. I'm so excited to be doing this today. Me too. Are you in L.A.?

I am in L.A. It's raining, it's dreary. And I like it. I know. Finally, right. It's like I've been stuck indoors and feels so awful when it's 30 degrees and sunny. Yeah, but I grew up in Washington State where it rains all the time.

It rains all the time. And I like I just want to eat chicken pot pie.

I just want to eat chicken pot pie.

You have the most amazing skin. Thank you. I redid my whole kind of regimen. I used to have cystic acne. I used to develop it on my chin. Did you. Yeah. Like hormonally you think. Yeah. And I would take antibiotics like it was tough as an actor.

A big thing and painful. Horrible. So what did you do? I did a few different things. So of course when I was younger and bummed that I went on Accutane, which was one thing, but it honestly didn't particularly help me. It kind of just made a whole lot of other problems. And so I basically started working with a woman named RPK and she is completely holistic. So everything is based on like organic whole products. You can buy or eat yourself.

Like if you can't eat it, you shouldn't put on your face basically. So I only wash my face with olive oil and I concoct my own toner basically like apple cider vinegar and rosewater. And then if I need like cleanser, I use honey. What? It's pretty crazy. Like I've gotten my best friends to start the olive oil thing and it literally changes the entire quality of your skin. Your skin produces its own oils, it regulates the irregularities and also it helps your skin naturally defend itself.

And when you're wearing makeup, it's crazy because like what you do is you put the oil in your hands, then you rub it in your face. And the first with makeup, you do it, then you wipe with a wet towel and then do it again. And then you wipe and you basically keep going until it just runs yellow with the color of oil. But sometimes with a lot of the makeup we were on set, it takes fourteen, fifteen like rounds of it.

And the reason is instead of doing a cleanser, the oil gets oil so your pores open up to the oil and allow the oil in to push the makeup out. Whereas with the cleanser you're digging the make up into your pores.

I have to tell our listeners, if this sounds like what a weird launching off place, you really should see Chloe's skin. It's stunning.

I can go into a whole gambit of the things that I do for my skin. You are the proof also like those rose quartz rollers. Yeah, it sounds stupid, but I sit around and I do it all day and it's face training in my entire shape of my face. Changed shit.

I want to go get mine. I never use it. It got like dust, you know, I'm telling you.

Yeah, well, you got to clean it because when I started getting acne from it, so then I realized I had to like, soak it in alcohol. So that was also like a learning curve.

You look amazing.

Is there something that you learned about yourself that you didn't know before this past year?

Yeah, I mean, a few different things. I think. For instance, I grew up in Georgia till I was five. We moved to New York for a year, and then I moved to L.A. with my family. And so all those years I started acting at five. And so from there forward, I was making a few movies a year till now.

So the first time I've ever been in L.A. for the amount of time that we have over this quarantine is the only time I've been in L.A. for this amount time. I've always said like, oh, you know, I live in L.A., but I really don't like I spend pretty much nine months of the year in other places. I come home.

It's more of like a vacation in L.A. I bet you have some awesome suitcase recommendations.

Oh, my gosh, I'm still living in UK, even though through the quarantine I've been home, I still haven't unpacked my suitcases. So but I will say, like, it's been a journey for sure. I think I got reacquainted with really what being by yourself is kind of like in terms of, you know, you can still be surrounded by your family even, but it's still you know, there's the inner monologue that starts to happen with, I think, people like us who work in an industry that is quite on the go.

Everything is kind of fast paced. There's always something happening. You can really fill your time up in your day with a million. And one things, even if you are in L.A., you can go to this meeting and that meeting and then go to lunch and then go to yoga or, you know, whatever your schedule is, you can really pack it for. And I think the first thing that really hit me was just like I found my own pace, which I thought that I needed to do all these things in a day, especially with like making myself feel good, like, you know, not getting anxiety from feeling like, oh, I'm stagnant or I'm not moving forward with something.

What I really learned is like there's some beauty in the stagnation and there's some beauty in understanding the stillness around you and paying attention to things that you never would have paid attention to, be that relationships, you know, emotions within yourself, all of a sudden you're like, oh, I like that, or I don't like that.

Or actually this is something that is more me than I thought it was prior to, you know what I mean?

Completely. I was like, man, the last few months I have been very anxiety ridden in a very specific way that does not relate to our industry. It feels good. It feels really good. I used to be like, I want to be doing that right, where do I want to be next year? Like, what am I looking for? Yeah, right. Or like, where am I in this shake down? Right. And I have not been thinking about that.

And it feels really good to not because it's also feels like you can control it to a certain extent, but it's a pointless activity anyway. That feels really good. I've also been like knitting and puzzling a weird amount.

You know, I thought I like puzzles. And then I really tried to like puzzles during grinding and I got so frustrated because I like to do things that I can do. And I like being like tactile. Like I was really good at baking bread. Like I learned how to do it. I was making like four loaves a day. I was working for like five a.m. to like make bread. I was just making too much.

Did you get good? Are you good? Yeah. And I was able to progress in it, but with the puzzling. It's the same thing with crafting though. I hate crafting.

Chloe, I am kind of with you, but I use puzzling to not unload the dishwasher or finish the laundry. Yeah, right. You know, it's like there's a puzzle I got to do.

There's fifteen hundred pieces laying here and I am trying to do it. I have the whole sky, the build and they're all blue.

Chloe, are you the kind of person do you talk on the phone like for hours with your friends.

I mean it kind of depends. I mean I love face, I mean my friends.

I think that is probably the thing I do the most. We have a text read between my very best friend and I, and we call it having a crisis.

And I think that kind of explains we all like file in on this group when any of us have something to say or something that's happened in our lives or maybe just to talk about like what the Easter eggs are in Taylor Swift's new album. So it really kind of ranges varying. Some days it's politics, some days it's personal issues, and some days it's Taylor Swift. And then if something's going on, then we'll do like a group FaceTime. So it's my three best friends.

I really only have three friends in the real sense of people that I talk to regularly and we really check in on each other. You know, there's a bunch of people that I really appreciate and love, but like I've had my three best friends for as long as I can remember. And it's one of those relationships with each of them that we can go periods of time without talking. And when we do check back in, there's no question of whether or not, you know, we've been there and they understand, you know, especially me and who have known me since I was eight years old.

They know that there's times when I go away to film in different countries for eight, nine months. So they're very used to kind of me going away and they've never pushed me or made me feel bad about that or anything like that. Which other people that I knew growing up really did.

I can relate to the people that have maybe a different agenda and the exhaustion level that it requires to kind of tend to them.

Yeah, no, it's exactly that. It's like I can't I'm sorry, but like, I would rather not have a friendship than have one that is not fulfilling for both parties, you know, and I think that goes for giving each other space and time. I think there's a false sense of ownership. I think over another person's time that a lot of people get and that just doesn't fly with me.

So we sat together right at the Oscars. Yes, I was going to mention and we share dividends. Yeah, we were serving and there was no food.

And I remember you instantly being you made me feel like we were really tight. I was so grateful to you because, I mean, we're at the fucking Oscars.

It was so weird. That is like a place I do not belong.

Yeah, it was crazy. It wasn't like Oprah. There were some really famous people around us. I felt so unqualified to be there. I was just sitting around like, this is like what's going on?

And then there was that whole other like some point you'll have to like, give me all of it.

There was a lot of stuff happening. I know, but it was fun. You made the night, like, so enjoyable for me. Likewise, like, honestly, sitting behind you was such a highlight because I just enjoyed that we were able to kind of cut the shit a little bit and just like talk genuinely and just to kind of be like, you know, where are we? Quite frankly, this is a wild, exciting, amazing experience to be able to be.

You know, they're surrounded by all these people. But also it's one of those moments where you're like, what? Like this is the industry that we're in. That's it's just wild. It's very confusing sometimes.

And then there's like the mundane, practical things that I think that people don't think about. Like, yeah, we were in the middle of an aisle. It's narrow. Yep. Like, imagine walking down like a narrow theater aisle, not like a movie theater narrow. And there's a bunch of movie stars in your way and there's a bunch of dresses and you're wearing like a full sequined dress. So when you sit on it like your legs and ass are permanently imprinted with, yeah.

Pokey's sequins, you're wearing somebody else's fucking jewelry.

You have to pee. But you can't. You can't. Are you going to be the person to walk out in the. Middle of the Oscars, right, sorry, excuse me, Oprah, I'm so sorry, Meryl. But I remember just giggling with you and being like, oh, thank God Chloe's right next to me. I felt the same way and I don't think we have met. But you treated me like an instant buddy, which I so needed.

Yeah.

And what I will say is I think that, like growing up, it always watch you and the way that you are yourself in interviews and the way that you were an hour as an actress, you are always authentic and you always kind of push the envelope on things.

And that's something that I've always aspired to. And actually, when I went to go to neighbors to like I watched a lot of your comedy to be able to, like, glean pushing the boundaries and kind of doing stuff that's a little wild, you know what I mean? That, like, women don't usually have the opportunity to do things. And so I was excited to meet you and I was excited to sit beside you. And I think in that sense, like your reputation precedes itself in that I knew that you were kind of going to be a cool normal, you know what I mean?

Cut the shit kind of person that we could just talk with each other and have a nice time.

And it honestly was like a really easy connection between you and I, which was really fun.

Oh, my God. I have this memory of I won't say the celebrity, but I remember you like grabbing my hand and you were so sweet and you were like, this thing is happening and I want to tell you about it.

And I was like, Khloe and I have been separated at birth somehow. This is amazing.

I'm Khloe, according to your IMDB, which I totally believe you've done over 50 movies. Yes. So you truly like when we think about like living out of a suitcase? Yes, ma'am. They're there and they are part of your mobile life.

Yes, I am a circus. Yeah. How do you cope with loneliness? I was a pretty solitary person and I think I still sort of them. I don't know when I would go away to shoot. I enjoyed elements of that. But there are also places or projects that you shoot on when it feels for me if I'm not having a totally cohesive, enjoyable experience and I feel kind of on my own at the workplace and then back at the hotel and back wandering around the city, it's a unique kind of loneliness that you know probably better than anybody.

Yeah, I'm intrigued by like when you were loneliness and how you cope and if you enjoy it. Yeah.

I mean, I think that's one thing that a lot of people aren't kind of aware of, you know, with actors, and especially if you enjoy what you're doing and you're going to want to do more projects and stuff like that, a lot of things get sacrificed along the way and people think it's very glamorous and stuff like that. And the reality is, you know, there's like maybe some moments like when you are able to go to the Academy Awards, like, that's exciting.

That's probably the most glamorous side of it. But in actuality, you know, we're working 18 hour days in places we've never really lived. We're going back to hopefully an apartment or house, if not a hotel, which I find a little more lonely. You go to a hotel.

Oh, really interesting. OK, yeah. So for me, like growing up in the industry and being a child actor, I was lucky enough that, like, it was mandatory that my mother was required to be with me. So my mother always had a sense of really wanting to implement regularity into my life. So I had the same tutor from the time I was six to 18. So that was one thing that really allowed me to have a place where going to these locations was exciting in a way.

And you had your team. Yeah, exactly. I wasn't kind of being beat up by anything on set and then not having anyone to talk to you. But then obviously, as I grew up, you know, that's a thing that comes with it, which is learning your own voice, learning how to deal with your own emotions on set, learning with, you know, maybe if a director comes at you in a certain way and you don't get along very well, that's kind of something to figure out.

And it's stressful. And especially as a woman, I mean, I don't know. It's something where I feel like I've been in a certain position sometimes where I'm like, oh, I don't feel good about this. I feel like I'm not being listened to or I feel like I'm not being heard. And a lot of it is because I'm a woman or a young woman where, you know, they kind of look at me like, oh, you know, do you even really deserve to be here when it's like I've been doing this for sixteen years.

I've done this I've done so many films were the places I feel the most confident answer.

Chloe, I was watching a clip of you describing when you were 16 about the wardrobe that was put into your trailer. Yeah. If you wouldn't mind talking about that.

No, I'm happy to talk about that. No, I mean, that goes linear with that. That's what I thought at that moment.

Like, if I didn't have my family with me, I don't think I would have spoken up in the way that I did. I was sixteen. I was on the film. And one thing that the studio I was working for really wanted, I guess, after we did the screen test is they well, I guess I'll start with this. I've always looked really young. I think even now at twenty three, a lot of people are like, what are you eighteen.

It is what it is. I'm fine with it. I don't really care. I also don't try to make myself look older. I don't really mind do that olive oil.

But you know, one thing for me is I never had the boobs and a five foot five girl who is a little bit on the shorter stature. So I didn't have all these like womanly aspects of me. And I guess the movie I was doing, they wanted to, I guess, sexualize me a little more. And I showed up in my trailer on the first day of production after we'd done all the rehearsals and all the screen doesn't. And all the fittings, I imagine, all the fittings, all the fittings, and there were chicken cutlets in the trailer waiting for me and for anyone who doesn't know a chicken cutlet, if there's any guys listening, those are like little silicone type.

I don't think they're a little big to an actual chicken breast.

Totally. And they make you sweat, too. They kind of like sticks your flesh after.

And like, I have never seen them.

I only knew about them like maybe four movies where they make fun of them or make them funny or something like that. But I had never seen them in person, especially pertaining to a 16 year old girl. So I was just kind of like I looked at my mom and my brother and I was like, what is this? And my mom was like, Oh, hell, no. You're like, that is like not OK that that's in here.

And I was like, this is, you know, disturbing on a multitude of levels. And I ended up, you know, kind of going to the studio execs that were on set and kind of being like, what is it that you thought you were doing? And I won't be doing that. And you can basically go to your higher ups or whoever decided to tell you to do this, that first of all, like it must kind of be illegal.

Like you can't really do that to young women. And if anything, you just gave me a complex by saying that my boobs aren't big enough by saying that I need bigger boobs. And that complex started there. And through the years that definitely, you know, it exacerbated itself. And I think with the body dysmorphia that women are already naturally predisposed to having from society, the industry doesn't do anything to help that. You know, nowadays, I think there's a lot more discussion about it, which is amazing.

But when I was 17, no one talked about it.

But Khloe.

I mean, I think it's amazing that you went to the producers and they had the gall to say it came from the studio. Yeah.

Like nobody was willing to have, like, oh, yes.

Yeah, they all tossed it up the ladder, which indicates that they were embarrassed, which is good, and didn't know how to deal with a really confident, smart actor that they hired. Yeah.

I mean, a big part of that was also like my mom is a really strong woman and having the protection and security of having my mother on set with me and my brother at the time, you know, who still travels with me a lot, having the ability to have those people behind me and be like, OK, I'm going to stand up for myself. And I can do this because also my career was never made out to me to be the end all.

Be all. You know, it wasn't this. If I'm not an actor, I'll be nothing. The mom was always like, you know, what? If you wake up one day and you don't want to do this, like do whatever you want to do and trust your instincts and trust your gut, but make sure that if you're going to go do this, you stand up for yourself in the way that you deserve to be heard. And that started when I was younger.

And, you know, men were like, I don't think that a 14 year old girl would say that. And I'm like, hi, 14 year old girl present. And I would say that, you know, and just kind of like things like that, you know.

Khloe, what was your most enjoyable shooting experience and what character do you hold close to your heart?

I think one would obviously be kick ass, you know, be able to do a character, was able to train for a nine and a half months and learn.

Do you love that part? If I was in kick ass, I would be like, that was awful.

No, I didn't grow up with four older brothers. I love trying to kick and beat them up. So then learning to properly do it made me so happy.

And you're so great in it. And it's a great movie. Thank you.

You know, that was something that I loved being able to mix in my physical strength. And I think that was something that also showed me to stand up for myself as I grew up, because I understood my physical strength and kind of power as a woman.

And I honestly think every young woman, when they're 11 or 12 years old, should take some sort of, you know, fight training, because it really does give you an edge where you're like, come at me like, you know, maybe I'm only ninety eight pounds or less at that age, but I had the ability to at least think about what I'm going to do.

Well, and with the physicality, of course, you can adapt your face. Yeah. If you don't feel strong, there is an insecurity when you're attempting to make something strong. Yeah. A very strong facial expressions or you have to deliver a strong line without feeling that you can feel false, even if you can dupe the audience.

I think you still feel a little bit like I will say, by the way.

Yeah, like that. Quickly on that, in your own mind, even if it does for the audience, you're kind of like, oh, I'm a liar and will it work?

I sure hope it fits in, but not. Yeah. You know, you're like watching the first cut of the movie and you're like, I hope this is going to be good. But I also could be horrible in this. But we'll see.

Hey, Chloe, I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions. Do you eat boxed cereal? I love cereal. I wish I could eat it more. It makes me feel kind of bad.

I'm worried that your skin care regimen also involves diet and therefore I will not have skin that looks like yours.

It honestly, it mainly involves lack of alcohol is the big one. That's good. When I ended up cutting alcohol out of my life, I have it every now and again. But when I ended up cutting it out, you know, even just like a glass of wine, my skin really overhauled.

Obviously, once I was twenty one, of course, never before. Oh, wait. OK, so box cereal. What's your favorite? Cinnamon toast crunch, cinnamon has for sure. What about you? I'm going to A Raisin Bran face right now. I have a raisin issue.

I love raisins. Oh, I hate I know most people do, but I like raisins in, like, cinnamon raisin bagel. Yeah, a cookie. No. One thing that makes me so angry. I love chocolate chip cookies, but nothing makes me mad.

Or when I think it's a chocolate chip cookie and a damn oatmeal raisin, it hurts my heart.

Chloe, I am the exact opposite. I love chocolate chip cookie, but if I'm expecting a raisin, don't you get those chocolate chips out of her cookie?

Chloe, do you believe in ghosts or aliens? 100 percent.

I mean, I think I've always had like one toe in the occult of the world. I've always been interested in it. And I've had several ghost experiences in my life, good and bad.

Can you tell us about that? Yeah.

I mean, I stayed in a really spooky hotel in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and my mother and I had a really bad experience with a ghost that we would come out of the bathroom and our clothes would be thrown all around the room. And what you know, I would hear him whispering in my ears at night.

What would you say? Just weird stuff like try and open your eyes, try and open your eyes, try and open your eyes. You can or like you can't move, you can't move. And weird stuff like that. And I would hear straight up walking and I would feel like cold touches. It sounds silly, but I 100 percent have dealt with it over the years. I kind of gotten to the point now where I was like, no, like I can feel it sometimes and I just like shut off my brain.

I'm like, no, thank you. I'm all good. I am not going to be like chillin tonight with this. And it happens when I travel to like foreign countries a lot. I find it happens in a lot of hotels. I also stayed in a hotel in Providence, Rhode Island, and it is one of the most haunted hotels in America.

All these really dark rituals went down and there was a lot of murders of young prostitutes and stuff like that back in the 1920s. And so it has a very long history. And when we stayed there, my brother, my mother and I, we all had horrible, horrible experiences. My brother ended up pretty much seeing a dark apparition that was like a see through black cloud and it was like beside his bed and ended up physically holding him down and hurting him.

And he had bruises.

What a yeah, I have weird, weird stories. That's why I also don't stay in hotels. I think it's because the spirits recognize that you're an old soul, maybe like, hey, where are we going to reach out to?

Like we saw you back in 1845. Welcome back, Shelley.

Oh, no, I'm now stop.

I love I also believe in aliens just because I think it's self-centered of us to think that we're the only things that matter. I think humans, we don't get that, too.

I'm much more cynical and clinical about these ideas. Yeah, but I do think that our imaginations are very limited. Unfortunately, I wish they weren't.

But I do believe that we don't have a great idea of everything. Yeah, yeah.

Call me if you could live anywhere in the world for a year, where would it be mean?

My dream is to eventually get out of L.A. and like own a ranch in Tennessee or somewhere back in the south and have like a ranch with, you know, horses and cows and goats and a little bit of a sanctuary. So maybe that or up north and kind of go to Oregon. I have a real heart for the Pacific Northwest. And I think saying somewhere in Oregon for a year would be really wonderful.

Chloe, I think you should do this sooner rather than later. I know.

I think so, too. I've really been getting the itch for it. I think that's one thing I've also learned over quarantine is having a place in L.A. is great. And I think I'll always maybe have something here, but ultimately, I don't think it fulfills me in the way that it used to.

Yeah, I'm with you. I've talked a lot about this, but there isn't that comforting wave that you have at a place that you identify as home. A hundred and ten percent.

Also the entitlement, I think that's been shown from a lot of the people that live in L.A. during the pandemic. It's been a little disappointing. My mother, you know, she's high risk. She has one kidney. And so we're super locked down here at the house. And I think it's been really frustrating because there's a lot of people I see that are just really doing anything they want against all guidelines. And it's just kind of been disappointing because I ended up filming a movie in Boston and the people of Boston were so game to follow the rules and be there for each other.

And the pride of the city supported the fact that they all wanted to wear masks. They all wanted to be true to what they were being told to do.

And that mentality, I was like, see, I respect that. But the way in L.A. is like, well, you know, I'm more important. And like, if I get covid, I'm not going to hurt anyone. And like that mentality, I think just kind of really showed like the darkness of L.A. and a lot of ways for me.

Yeah, I'm with you. We bought a used camper van last spring.

Oh, that's cool. That's fun. It was great. I wanted to do that.

It's been awesome, really. Did you go a cabin up in Washington State? Oh, my gosh.

You're living my dream. That's amazing. Yeah. So we. Just sleep in the van and kind of go back and forth a bit. But even at gas stations, we had people telling us to fuck off because we were wearing masks. Wow. Yeah, it was like the highly politicized situation became so personal. Yeah, it was bizarre. And there's more of a divide in the Pacific Northwest than I was aware of.

Yes. I didn't realize until recently that there was such a cultural divide of ideas.

Yeah. OK, let me ask you this. Would you rather travel by train or by boat?

I get seasick, so I love the idea of a boat like an old trans-Atlantic trip on a boat.

But I would prefer train also. I'm afraid of derailing, but I would probably prefer a trade really weighing the death.

This episode of Unqualified is brought to you in part by best feelings. For more than a year now, my best friends have been there for me and what a journey it's been. In the beginning, I was charmed by the fun music and colorful visuals while the fiendish puzzles gave me a sense of accomplishment that went far beyond the satisfaction I get from cleaning dishes or folding laundry. In the following months, best became a means of connecting with friends and family, only to become validation as I beat them one by one.

When I matched 50 green leaves and defeated five slugs and only 12 moves, I felt a strength. Not unlike that time I went to the gym, I was neoh to Quincy's Morpheus and that was Slug's Agent Smith. Right? Bethune's has literally thousands of levels already with new levels, events and challenges added all the time with over one hundred million downloads. Breastfeeds is a must play. So Download breastfeeds free today on the Apple App Store or Google Play.

That's friends without the our best feed.

Do you have a favorite movie that you could watch over and over, Chloe? Yeah, I mean, I would probably say Roman Holiday or Breakfast at Tiffany's. Those are probably two films that I've seen more times than I can count. You know, they're both one type of film. I think that transports me to why I really fell in love with acting in the first place, which was Audrey Hepburn.

You must have seen Sharon. Yes, I love her.

It's amazing. They really think about the golden age of cinema and such a wonderful way. But then when you look at all the documentaries, it was so dark.

But I love the stories of that era. Yeah. It was just so interesting and so wild in L.A. at that point in time was so.

Wow, you know. Yeah. OK, what intimidates you. Hmm. One thing I'm doing right now that kind of intimidates me. I like to feel intimidated a little bit because I want to get over those type feelings. Yeah, but I signed up for this Harvard extension class because I wanted to figure out what it was like to take a college class, because when I turned 18, I decided not to do it. And so I'm taking this class with Professor Jennifer Hochschild.

And the class is called Race in a Polarized America. And I feel incredibly intimidated by everyone in the class. I think I really love to look at myself as an academic. I love learning. I love education. I love being a student. But academics intimidate me so much, I feel like I don't have a seat at the table to really say the things that I've learned over the years of like stumping for Hillary Clinton when I turned 18 and being a part of the Biden campaign.

Like those things are so important to me, but it's so hard. Like, I literally am nervous. I feel my heart racing right now thinking about class, you know, on Monday, because I feel like I'm supposed to be in these breakout rooms talking to other people my age and older people, too, that are in the extension classes.

And it's just like so nerve racking. It's such an interesting thing, but I'm so intimidated by it and that's why I really want to do it.

Well, I think it's amazing that you are doing it. And I imagine over Zoome, though. Yes. And that's even more intimidating. Right, because the awkwardness of interrupting is a more aggressive act during.

Yes. It's so hard. The group projects are so scary. I'm so scared. I love that you're doing it.

I went to University of Washington for five years and I graduated with a degree in English and I wasn't a good student, nor did I enjoy it until probably my third year. Interesting. And then something clicked in me. I started to kind of get the hang of it, which truly just meant like be involved, right?

Like you can't help but be interested if you start to actually engage. Right. But for some reason that took me like two years to learn.

And that's when I'm kind of learning right now.

Like with this breakout room, which is our version of talking to other students, I realized towards the end of it I was like I listened to the other groups of people they talked about during their breakout rooms. And all of the things they talked about were exactly the things I wanted to talk about, but what I held back from talking about.

And I was like, OK, if I engage more next time and I actually speak about what I'm thinking of in that moment and we really start the conversation.

Yeah. Hey, close. I discovered eBay over quarantine and I bought a payphone, a big old AT&T proper payphone, proper pay phone. I was going to get like an old cash register. Two. Oh, that's fun. The house is really cluttered.

That's also something I've learned over quarantine is how much I hate picking up after myself constantly, because when you're home more, there's so much more mess.

We have three kids here. My fiancee has two teenagers and I have an eight year old. And imagine what that's like.

Oh, I've just thrown in the towel and for the first time in my life, I'm really fine with it.

Yeah, I feel like that's a great place to be. Yeah. Happy for you to be there.

Yeah, my fiancee does my roots. We can, you know, do a little touch up maybe later.

They're not too bad though. Yeah, well looking good.

OK, so what talent or ability would you most like to have. Probably the ability to speak fluently, other languages. I think that's something that I've really wanted to do.

And it's hard. It's a hard thing. Chloe, in college I started taking linguistics because it fulfilled some requirement. Interesting. And I loved it. The study of language, especially for an actor, is fascinating. So interesting. The English language is incredible.

I, I wish my vocabulary was more expansive, but, you know, other languages can have wonderful nuance to incorporate in the way they go about a sentence.

Even just the way that they get a word across can be so different than the way that we talked. It's just so interesting how each one varies. It also can describe character traits of a country, you know what I mean? And kind of the way people go about things.

With all your experience in life, you probably had a lot of exposure to other languages. Which one would you pick?

Weirdly enough, you know, when I did Suspiria, I found it really interesting. I did speak German. I do like twenty five page scene. And I got an email came to me when he asked me to do the project with him, he said, I want you to do the first 15 minutes of the movie and it's going to be just like twenty five page scene, straight shot, like we're just doing the whole thing and you're just going to act it out and it's going to all be in German.

And I was like, okay, cool. You're like and you're going to start like learning German next week.

And I was like, OK, we'll see what that looks like. And so I did it.

And I learn the twenty five pages in German and then I show up in like two days before filming. He's like, OK. Also want it to be in English, and I want you to be able to do kind of like, you know, in English, we can go in and out of English to Spanish. And it also makes sense in the sentence do that with German, which is much different. You know, it's very different. And it was interesting to be able to understand how to put the sentences together.

And it made me kind of interested in learning German and I just never followed through with it.

That's amazing. OK, what or who has most influenced your career?

Just listening to my brother memorize his dialogue in the listening to it and learning it from hearing it. And I would learn monologues just from hearing them. I think the thing that's always excited me the most and what influenced me the most is my like obsession for lack of a better term with feeling different emotions and figuring out what those emotions are and going through them and throwing myself into positions where I don't know what the hell I'm doing and trying to work myself out of that, you know, and going to places where, you know, you show up on set and you're kind of like, I don't think I'm going to be able to achieve this today.

Like, I don't know that I could do this. And then the camera starts rolling and it's like showtime. Like Tom Steps.

People are watching you and there's like money on the line. And all of a sudden it just kind of happens or it doesn't and you feel like total shit, but at least you're trying. And I think that's something thing that's influenced me the most is this striving to figure those emotions out. And it's gotten easier since I've grown up and had more like experience. I don't have to try as hard to reach those emotions, which is cool. And then the other thing is my mother and my brother, they're the people that have been there for me through everything and working with my brother from a young age.

I learned all the things that I know about acting in the way of going about the process of, you know, preparing. I learned all of that from working with him and what he taught me. So having him be in my career as my acting coach and my mother in my career as my friend and watcher and people to kind of be beside me and sounding boards, I think they influenced me the most to become the woman that I am today on set.

And I think politically as well, being able to speak up for what I believe in. I love that.

Chloe, what qualities do you look for in a romantic partner, someone who is truthful, honest? I think honesty is probably my biggest tic that I really look for in someone is someone who can tell you exactly how they're feeling or what you're doing right or wrong and stand up for themselves in that sense to you and be able to have those frank discussions, as well as someone who is in a way, as much of a hopeless romantic as I am, you know, willing to kind of do those silly things on a whim and, you know, lock ourselves in a room all day and watch old movies and eat way too much takeout food and, you know, be pigs for the evening or also, you know, go and fly to another country and race around trying to figure out all the new things and eat new food.

And, you know, I think that sense of adventure is something that I really look for.

I love that. I want to ask you if you have experienced heartbreak, because I feel like you're an intimate person and I hope you're OK if I go vaguely down these waters without getting too personal in your life. Yeah, but I mean, it's one of the more fascinating things I think that happens to us. Certainly impactful. I agree. Have you experienced heartbreak?

I think I've experienced heartbreak in a few different levels. I think probably the biggest heartbreak I experienced is family heartbreak, not to go into something that's going to create a salacious headline. But, you know, we dealt with heartbreak in my family when my father left. And I think going through that as a young woman and seeing my blood turn away from blood and say, you know, I'm good, I'm out of here and watching us kind of pick it up and be there for my mother and watch my brothers fill in in a way that they shouldn't have had to do at the age they were at.

And me feeling in a way that I probably shouldn't have had to do either. And, you know, the whole family has to figure out a new dynamic. I think that sense of heartbreak is one that I spent hours and hours in therapy about. And I'm very happy with where I am now in my life. And it doesn't affect me on a daily basis. But I think it is the most profound heartbreak I've gone through. And I think heartbreak is something that is so important to go through in life.

And I've gone through other heartbreak. I went through a recent friendship, heartbreak that was really hard to get past.

Oh, I'm sorry. Someone I knew for a long time. And there was a lot of dishonesty and stuff that we went through. And again, though it changed me so much for the better. It was so hard. It was so hard. But I would never go back to the way I was before everything I realized was realized, because the way that I am now and the way that I feel now is so much more grounded. And I feel grounded in my decisions.

I feel grounded in the way that I feel about myself and the things that I need. I trust my instincts more in a way, and I think heartbreak is integral to life. You can't love, I think, without heartbreak, because then you really understand what love is. You understand what commitment is. You want to know what sacrifices. I'm a big proponent of heartbreak.

Do you fall in love easily? Would you consider yourself a romantic? I'm a romantic for sure.

I don't think I fall in love easily. I think I'm so guarded from what I went through when I was younger with. My father and everything like that, I definitely protect myself and I find it very hard to kind of break down those walls, but after trust and time really is put into something, I can definitely unravel and be at ease. But, you know, I definitely have a tic where if something goes awry, it's very hard for me to get back to anywhere near my openness.

I honestly don't think I can work back from that.

In a lot of ways, I'm the same way. Yeah. And when I've been betrayed in relationships in the past, my initial reaction is what's wrong with them, which I don't know, I suppose is good, maybe a little egocentric.

I mean, I totally get that. I think, you know, the ability to forgive the situation, but also not forget is one thing for me where I'm like, OK, good, you know, I'm going to go do my thing over here, but I have no need to go back to where I was.

So I guess it's good that my reactions always been like, well, that's surprising. You're like, well, I'm amazing.

So why do you want to lose this? I mean, that's like the confidence and that is look like I'm here for that.

It hasn't always been that solid, but I'm forty four now. I'm forty four. And now you can't shake me. Yeah. You're not taking down this broad. Totally.

Chloe, when have you thrown caution to the wind. I suspect that you do that pretty frequently.

Yeah I think I do it a lot where I'm kind of like, you know, I should probably be more cautious about this or like even going to this class. I'm definitely unqualified and since, like, I was homeschooled really well, but I have not sat in the class ever.

So, like, I'm unqualified, really be there, like know how to take notes and it's not. But I'm like, you know what? I'm throwing caution to the wind and that sense of just being like guns a blazing a little bit and just kind of heading into the burning house and hoping that I get out.

It's really inspiring that you're doing that. Yeah, I think that's incredible that you are striving for like just more in life. Yeah. More to, like, fill your brain and more experience. That's incredible. You has a stranger ever changed your life?

Yeah, I am open in that sense. I'm definitely open to experiences of even just, you know, coming across someone for a very short amount of time and having a large impact on each other's life. I kind of feel like as an actor in a weird way, not to bring it back to our jobs, but we spend so much time in these traveling circuses that are set and you meet people for very short periods of time. But I've had some of the most meaningful conversations and experiences through the people that I've met on set that I will probably never see again.

You know, I think some of those moments where you are, you know, working 16, 17 hours, you're vulnerable, you're tired, you're this you're that some of the conversations I've had with makeup artists, with costumers, those people that are with you day in, day out, I think they've shaped me in a lot of ways, you know, was someone I worked with on a project who was my dresser on a project in New Zealand. And then she ended up coming with me to Tom and Jerry.

And she had such a big impact on my life. You know, she was a total stranger that I'd never met before. And she was just such a bright light. And she used to call herself a rainbow. And she always wore all these rainbow colors. She was just like so cool and so kind and so real.

And she made some of those hardest days so easy. And I was going through a lot emotionally and she made my day is just so doable on set to just be in those moments and be present. I think being open to those type of relationships is really cool.

You need them to and you're right about being open. That was my impression of you when we met. And it's a simplistic way to phrase something kind of unique and complex and OK. So to whom would you most like to apologize and why?

I mean, probably in a way the person I've had to apologize the most to is myself. And I really took for granted the inner voice and the stuff that I went through when I was younger and bad things that happened to me and were done towards me when I was younger. You know, I really had to forgive myself for them not being my fault or them not being something that I caused. And I think that inner conversation was the hardest and is the hardest to constantly have, because most of the guttural reactions you have that might not seem like yourself or that little girl in your heart where where ever something traumatic happen to you, your head kind of stays.

I think for me, that would probably be the person I continue to want to apologize the most and be there for the inner part of myself, because I think I didn't for a while.

Yeah. What is your relationship with religion? I grew up Christian Baptist. My mom is a born again Christian. She has a very strong faith and I really respect religion. I respect all religions, quite frankly, and I respect the effort and the energy that goes towards forms of prayer. Be that, you know, meditation in all the way down the line of all the different religions out there until religion and spirituality for me, I don't have an organized religion that I feel is my one true thing.

I find that I try to look inward and listen to myself and listen to feelings that I have around. And the things that I feel like I really pick up on and connect to the spirituality, which is all that we are surrounded by, all that we are and that we are all feeding off the energy and be that appreciating my little dog and what she gives me and the joy she gives me and giving that to her, you know, the appreciation of plants and land and the sun and the moon and Mother Earth and everything that we're surrounded by.

I think the Native American sensibility of spirituality is probably the thing that I connect to the most.

I love that. What is your relationship like with fame? I think fame is a crazy, double edged sword.

I think it's the hardest thing to try and navigate when you're new to it, especially I think when it first kind of hits you.

It's that first year or two that really I think you realize a lot of stuff about yourself. And then it's really kind of a maintenance after that of being like, OK, this is yes, this is no, I like that. I don't like that. And for me, it kind of became about wielding it in the right ways, kind of using the fame as more of a platform to enhance voices that aren't being heard. You know, especially I think it's been really seen that the BLM movement and people really finally speaking up and just kind of sitting back and using our platforms is more of a way to amplify, marginalize people that deserve to be heard.

I think that's one way to wield it in the right way. I think it's a very hard thing, though, to balance the power that is given to you with fame. And that power is easy to get drunk on, as is any power. And it's kind of a constant understanding of how do I speak who I am, speak my truth, stand up for myself, but also not be stuck in this echo chamber of what is the most important thing to you.

And it's so easy to become trapped in an echo chamber of like me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. But in actuality, like you don't really mean that much in the grand scheme of things. I think keeping that sensibility about yourself is good. Getting out of your comfort zone, going to small towns, going to other countries, you know, realizing that everything that we're surrounded by on a daily basis, isn't that real, quite frankly, yeah.

What's your relationship with the idea of patriotism?

That is kind of exactly what we're talking about right now. My class, I think patriotism is a very interesting thing. It's been interesting since the Declaration of Independence. I think, you know, Frederick Douglass and the things that he's, you know, said and put into his speeches and the way he's spoken, he did an amazing speech what Fourth of July is to the slave. And he speaks so eloquently in that. And, you know, I think patriotism is a hard thing to describe.

And I grew up in the south where it means different things to different people. And I think it's been used as a really big weapon, quite frankly.

I do, too. And that disappoints me. I think that there's a lot of blind, unexamined patriotism. Yes. One of the many things that's great about our country is that we've allowed for critique and we just need to continue to encourage that.

And that there's one thing that Frederick Douglass really talks about in that speech is he says, you know, at that point, we were only a 76 year old country. And he talks about how having hope in the fact that we were that young, that there is time for change and hope that through time as being a young country, we can grow. It's hard to kind of look at from that point in time. That speech was spoken to. Now, how much growth is really happened and how much has the words and the division kind of really been grown deeper?

And how much have we realized that our liberal democracy is a little bit more that of a mirage?

But now I think, you know, having Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in the highest office in our country, I think that promotes change, that promotes progression. You know, looking back and seeing Barack Obama become a president, you know, those are things that we can look forward to saying we have a future in this country that becoming a good country and a proper liberal democracy and using visibility of social media and other ways of that being able to put in laws in order to have a judicial system that stands up for all people, you know, equally.

Yeah, Chloe, I imagine that you have to surround yourself with people who very much understand that big time. Yeah, no, I mean, my best friends, I think the reason why we're as close as we are now is because I don't beat them up for them putting their time into their work in jobs and they don't beat me up for me, putting my time into my work and job. And it's really easy to look at our job and be like, why can't you just call me?

You know, why can't you just talk to me or why can't you come home from an 18 hour day and still talk to me? All you did was act all day. Like I think all those things are really easy to, you know, look at them and make them feel really futile to the world. But in actuality, our lives are perspective. And for us, it is our job and we're doing it correctly. We're putting all of our energy behind what we're doing.

You need to have people around you that understand those sacrifices. You know, and I grew up with medical parents, so there's a lot of sacrifice that goes into medicine of time, you know, and a lot of our hours in our day as a family was divided between the hospital and us.

You know, that's something you really learn and you respect the boundary of that. That's their job. And that's very different because, you know, they're saving lives every day and that's a totally different world. And I've been trying to compare our job to saving lives, but I learned respect of boundaries of someone's job and life.

I don't doubt that you are highly considerate. I'm sure in your life people have not understood how you in order to achieve exactly what you have to. I was married to. Two actors, and in some ways that made it easier because the priority is understood, right. But on the other hand, too, it makes it hard to clear your mind from the industry when it's already so consuming, all of it inundating.

Yeah, you seem like a very private person when it comes to discussing relationships. Yeah.

One thing I prize probably the most in life is anonymity and privacy. Just in the sense of my relationship. I don't talk about where I am, who I'm with, what I'm doing, because I don't think that's anyone, quite frankly, business, because I have been in relationships in the past where I did share everything and I was super upset with sharing everything.

At the end of the day, as I grew up, I realized the thing I care about the most is keeping the most sacred things to me as close as I can. And in that sense, I respect long term commitment. I crave long term commitment. I think it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful thing. I think with that comes communication. It comes hard work. And I think it has to be a two way street and a 50 50 in that sense.

And I think those are the most important things to me. And kind of watching my parents relationship growing up, I knew that I wanted to make sure that both people in a relationship, no matter where I was and what a relationship I was in, were always trying to achieve their goals at the same time. And one wasn't having to completely shorthand theirself, obviously their sacrifice. But I think if ever I'm in a love relationship or a friendship and anyone is having to sacrifice or thwart their dreams, for me, I would personally remove myself from the situation because I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

So for me, like, I think a balance of the scales with that is really important in having a heavy dose of realism of, you know, being in love, but also being like, is this actually fulfilling for both parties?

Always completely. Do you think that you are a good judge of character? I think so. I think when I was younger, I got really caught up in, like, people being like, oh, my God, I'm your best friend or your best friend. I'm your best friend. And I'm going to show you these ways. I'm your best friend in the same thing in relationships is very easy to get there. And I think what I realized is usually when people create that much of a Schrade, it's probably not that honest.

Yeah. When you feel like it isn't.

And I think just trusting your gut in your initial kind of reaction and if someone's kind of just building your ego, probably not for the best things. So I think that that's something that I realized growing up in the now I really have a heavy dose of just pessimism. I think going into things and being like us is probably not going to work.

And then if it surprises me, then I'm like, OK, that's cool. It is working and like this is going low. But if it's not that, I'm like, yeah, I knew it all along. Yeah.

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, of course. It's like the post justification. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. OK, when are, where are you happiest or most content. At home. At home cooking. I can't believe you still have the suitcases like within your. Yeah they're upstairs in my hallway.

I wonder if to some degree it's like a psychological hit like I think it kind of is.

I'm just staring at them every day I walk upstairs, I'm like, oh I should probably do that. And then I go to my room and I shut the door.

So Tom and Jerry is coming out February twenty six. How was that experience?

Being a studio film, I felt like I got a little bit more time to, like, hang out with everybody, which was fun. We also worked with Rob Delaney. I just have to say, he is so brilliant and so funny and such a great stand up. I just love him. And he's a really good guy. And he was someone who I didn't know very well. And we shared some really wonderful conversations. And he's just a really, really wonderful man.

It is interesting when, like, there is like the safe person. Yeah, exactly. And also the other person was Tim Storey, the director.

Like, he was so cool. Yeah. So nice. The studio sets can be so hard sometimes because there's so many people like you can feel kind of really lost in the hundred 200 people you have on set. But Tim was so cool and it was just so chill. The whole set was just so calm.

That's great. You have another movie coming out. Tell me about Shadow in the Cloud.

Yes yeah Shadowline the cloud is out on pay per view and then it's going to be hitting Hulu in March.

I think so you were shooting in London. Yes, we were at WB Studios for what they call them but we were shooting. It used to be the old Rolls-Royce factory and so there was no air conditioning and we were shooting all the summer. And surprisingly it's like really hot in London for like a month.

Yeah, it gets humid. It was dying, dying, trying to do comedy against nothing because there was nothing there nine years of the time was acting opposite puppets who couldn't speak. So they would tell me to improv and whatever I would improv. And then in my head they would sign back to me, they could animate. So I was improvising. Imagine them signing back to me, improvising more, and I felt crazy. It was like one hundred degrees, although I'm sweating profusely and I'm just like, what's going on?

It was so fun though. I also will say, like, I don't get to do comedy much. And it was so fun to do comedy where also you can throw your body into it. And I was doing some really crazy stuff and it worked. It was one of those things where I was like, this might not work. And I watched it and I was like, Oh my God, it's OK.

You don't hear that too frequently. That's awesome. Yeah. OK, so what do you think is the meaning of life? Easy question.

Super simple. No, I believed you. I was like, I know she totally has an answer to this. She's already thought about it.

Oh, no, I haven't thought about it. But I'm going to think about it now. The meaning of life to me is a few different things. It's kind of as simple as like eating an orange. There is something that is so incredible about the taste of an orange, the flavors that expand in your mouth and your brain. I think for me, it's moments like that that are the meaning of life. For me, it's experiences that make me feel like this is why we're here.

We're here to taste things like that. We're here to play with dogs. We're here to have babies. We're here to like, watch our parents grow old and be there for them and care for them like they cared for us. Like the meaning of life is heartbreak, you know, love. It's smelling the smell of the earth after it rains like it. It sounds so cliche and so Pinterest and Tumblr. But like for me, the meaning of life is all those little moments and waking up and, you know, being groggy and having coffee and like all those little moments, I think are the things that are the most important and having the human experience and the human experiment that we're all kind of walking around on this earth trying to figure out what our existence is.

And it's a singular existence, quite frankly. You surround yourself by a bunch of people, but ultimately you come into this world alone and you do leave this world alone in a wonderful way. And I think I kind of chalked it up to an appropriate, healthy relationship with death. For me, I think that our American culture really fears death, and it really disappoints me because we have no idea how to grapple with that fear.

We don't even use the word death. We use the word passing away or we lost that soul and this and that. When the reality is it is death, it is just the word death. And we shy away from it. And there's no reason to shy away from it because it's a really wonderful thing. It kind of really puts everything into perspective. I think you really realize that with health scares and stuff like that, or maybe having a child is something that would probably really reinforce that feeling because it's about that.

It's about living. Chloe, that's unbelievably beautiful. And I love the idea of like until we collectively recognize and accept, maybe even embrace.

Yeah. How can we have proper perspective on our priorities in the moment on a daily basis. And I think you just put that so beautifully. Thank you. One last question. Do you have a favorite joke?

Do I have a favorite joke? I think the joke that I've said the most in my life is the stupidest joke ever. Can we hear it? Yeah. What is brown and sticky? I don't know.

A stick. That's about it, kids.

That's all you got, folks.

I also love jokes that have no real punch line where someone leads you on for like four paragraphs and then they tell you something that's nothing.

I also love jokes like that because it's just a waste of everyone's time and it really makes me happy.

Chloe, I really would love to be your friend. Likewise, I really want to know about your moisturizer or whatever else you're you.

Oh, I'll tell you all the things I do. I also use this infrared sauna, which really helps to detoxify and make your body feel really good and just a blanket.

Oh, I want one. Chloe, thank you so much. I think you're just incredible. You really are a gem. Thank you.

Thank you. Know, this was so fun. Honestly, probably the most intimate conversation I've ever had publicly. And I really appreciated our conversation. And I really appreciate you as a person. And I think I don't know, I've just read so much of what you've said. And I appreciate the way that you hold yourself and the things that you say. And you're super, super honest in your podcast, especially if you're honest about where you're at in your life and how you feel and your relationships with people.

And I think that's just a great way to lead and it's really wonderful.

I can't wait to talk again by Chloe. OK, bye. Dive into the hilarious minds, the world's funniest people on a brand new podcast, comedy, Gold Mines with Kevin Hart from Rising Stars to comedy legends, Kevin will pair with comedic tastemakers for ear opening dialogue that takes listeners on a wild and crazy ride through some of the world's top comedic minds. Listeners. Guests like Jerry Seinfeld, Bill Burr and Steve Harvey chronicled their comedy club experiences. Give a sneak peek into their latest material, share inside jokes with Kevin and much more.

You can hear about how a completely inexperienced Taesan Menaged Cold called a comedy club in a play to open for Dave Chappelle. And you won't believe what happened or how Jesus Miro snuck out of their day jobs to chase their comedy dreams and build a hit podcast. Insightful, funny conversations with the world's biggest comedians. Plus, the rising stars you need to know all await you every week on comedy gold mines with Kevin Hart. New episodes of comedy gold mines are out every Thursday, so subscribe on Stitcher, Apple podcast, Pandora or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey, everyone, I am so happy to introduce you to Dr. Lisa Marie Bobbie, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist, a board certified life coach, and a whole lot more cautious. Dr. Bobby, great to see you. Thank you for doing this. It is my pleasure.

I'm so excited to be here. All right, let's call Amry. Hello. Hi, Anne Marie, how are you? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my gosh, this is so crazy.

Thank you so much for joining us today, Ammori, and for writing in to us. I'm here with Dr. Bobbie. She is the founder and clinical director of Growing Self Counseling and Coaching in Denver, Colorado. And she is just amazing. Hi, Anne Marie.

Hi. Nice to meet you both, Emery. Will you tell us what's going on? Yeah, for sure.

So I'm kind of in a tricky love triangle situation, which I hate to put it that way. I'll just kind of explain briefly what's going on around a year ago this time, like literally the week that covid hit, I went through the worst breakup of my life. I dated the guy for a year. We were so in love. We went to Japan together. We did long distance. Well, I studied abroad in Japan for like five months.

We're both seniors in college still and we're both still majors as well. We were always working on projects together. We were best friends since like freshman year, even though we only dated for a year. So a lot longer than that because of like how deep our friendship was. And when I got back from studying abroad, he was acting really different, kind of went through like a quarterlife crisis, dropped out of school. I broke up with me and like basically disappeared.

And it was so like out of the blue for me. He was definitely my first love. And it was rough. It was really hard. And in January, finally, when I kind of feel like I've overcome the breakup and I'm like in a better place, I love this new guy. And we started seeing each other and totally hit it off. And I felt for the first time since my breakup, like this is someone I have feelings for, someone that I can see myself dating.

And the week of Valentine's Day of all days, my ex reaches out and he wants to get back together. So I'm in this position where I do have feelings for this new guy that I've been seeing and I've only known him for a month. And then compared to my ex, who I've known for four years and had this great love with, and then this crazy breakup that didn't really have anything to do with me or our relationship, but like something like he was going through and he needed to do on his own.

I don't want to hurt anyone. I want to be fair to both people. I'm just trying to juggle this and figure out what's best for me at the same time. So it's a lot.

And I love your advice. God.

Well, you know, when I first read your letter, Emory, it sounded like your ex was having some sort of like a like an emotional crisis. What was the timeline for his reemergence and what did he say? Was he apologetic or regretful that.

Yes, in September, twenty twenty, he reached out. He was like, I would love to see you and talk. So I met up with him, but I was extremely close up. I was still so hurt by everything that he mentioned a little bit like could you see us going back together? And I shot it down super quickly. I think I just was really overwhelmed with my work and I was still so hurt by everything. I didn't really entertain it.

So that was our first time seeing or speaking to each other really since our breakup. And then in January, I was producing a film and the director was pretty insistent on having my ex work on set. So he was on set for three weekends. I was with him.

Was he flirtatious, on set, jovial? Was he distant? Was he like what was his demeanor towards you? Was he professional?

I think he didn't really know how to act either. So at first, like, I was keeping my distance and we started to kind of chat a little bit and things were friendly, but we were definitely like us that was kind of progressing more friendly with each other. But I my head was still pretty locked in on the guy that I was seeing at the time in January.

Dr. Bobby, I already have some strong, stupid opinion about Emory's situation.

But Dr. V, I would love to give you a chance to delve into this.

Well, I actually have a couple of just clarifying questions, if I may. And Marie, for sure. Yeah.

First of all, was your ex-boyfriend aware of your new relationship when he came describing his undying love for you? Did he know that you were dating somebody?

He didn't. You didn't know. OK, OK, good to know. And then the other question is, I mean, you describe some kind of quarterlife crisis where he's like dropping out of school and like, what's going on with that?

I mean, it's still kind of baffles me a little bit because I was nothing but supportive when he was trying to change his life path and I was trying to tell him, like, you know, it's OK to like like other things. I want to explore other things, like you don't have to just, like, completely start clean if you decide you want to do something new.

Do you think he has changed? Have you noticed any differences? He basically changed his entire life with unhappy with it and then came back, has the same major and wants to get back together with me. So he's trying to like you through all this stuff away and now he's trying to grab all the back. And for me, it's like, how can you go? How can you change and fix all those issues in under a year? So that is kind of where I'm hesitant to jump back into anything because you say he's changed.

But I don't know, it's still kind of scary and I still don't completely understand what was going on in his head when he decided to drastically change so many things in his life.

You know, you guys are young and it is also very like a normal, you know, late adolescent thing to, like, try on different identities to try to figure yourself out.

But what have you learned about this person?

I know that he he does love me. And he's one of those people. He's like, I want to be the best. Like, what I'm doing. Which is why I think it's hard for him to entertain the thought of, like doing multiple things. He kind of pigeonholed himself, like after graduation, I have to stay in Nashville, like this is the only place I can get a job. And I'm like, no, you can reach out to people in New York.

We've got alumni that are in California. You can reach out to them like you can, but you can do what you want to do. You can live in Japan if you want to for a year, like if you set yourself up for that. And so that's probably one of the biggest things that's stressful for me, because I finally set my mind. I something like I'll do it. And I do feel like when we were dating, he held me back a little bit in that sense memory.

I don't know if this is similar at all. I dated a guy in college who made me feel that I was more of the adult caretaker, which I think a lot of women can get into in relationships earlier in your life.

But that's a tough role, I think, for any person to be in. I remember breaking up with him and feeling like I really want a guy who can make his own dentist appointment.

Oh, yeah.

And Marie, what you're describing is like a much more sort of securer orientation to the world where you feel like empowered and this person feels much more tenuous in terms of, like, his attachment and that he's almost perhaps seeking safety through his relationship with you.

And actually, I feel like I have to back up just a little bit because what I'm about to share might not make sense without a little explanation. Is that is that OK? Oh, I'd love that.

OK, so there's a concept called attachment, which is like so important to understand in all human relationships, but especially in these kinds of relationship situations.

Anne-Marie.

And what it refers to are not just like our feelings of love and affection for each other. It's actually goes much, much, much deeper. We humans are hard wired to bond to each other very, very fiercely. And there are not just emotional reasons for this, but like evolutionarily speaking, it goes back to like survival drive stuff. We humans cannot literally survive in the natural world in isolation. So we we evolved for many hundreds of thousands of years and like family groups, tribes of like 50 to 100 people, and our literal survival depended on us maintaining those relationships.

And so we are hard wired to try to maintain our relationships, particularly when we start to feel anxious or threatened. And so we have these very powerful feelings inside of us that are from this like old brain self that are often in conflict with us, more new, almost modern human part of our brain, which is the thinking part of our brain that understands why things happen.

It has language. It's like if this, then that.

And I sort of hear these things in conflict inside of you, Anne-Marie, but also inside of your ex.

The metaphor that people used to describe it oftentimes is like an elephant with a writer on top of the elephant.

And so our conscious selves that are trying to like make decisions about relationships and figure out what to do is the writer that is often not even aware that they're sitting on this extra.

Equally powerful giant elephant that's really controlling the show and that speaks to us primarily through our emotions, I like that.

And so what you're telling me is that you had this powerful attachment to this guy that also perpetuated through a long distance relationship, which is a very different kind of relationship, and that he was going through emotional things that made him.

I hope it's OK to say this, but not a stable or reliable partner for you, that he wasn't a safe person for you and that you've learned a number of things about him over the course of these years, including that he is sort of perfectionistic and kind of rigid and has all these things.

But because we are so hard wired to maintain our attachments, it can become very confusing when we have this instinct to stay bonded to somebody. But that writer part of our brain is saying, but wait a minute. So that's kind of where I'm interested to go.

More is activating that writer part of yourself with with questions like, you know, based on what you know about this person and have learned over the entirety of your experience with him, like what does he do when he's under stress, the fact that he abandons people when he's not OK? You know, if we can assume that this is actually what it is like to have a relationship with a person, is this good enough for you? Does that make sense, right?

That's so true. Oh, my gosh, yeah, it totally makes it. I think especially women are very vulnerable to thinking, but if he were different, then he would love me and he would be emotionally stable and supportive. And this would feel like a really good relationship for me.

But it's sort of dependent on these different things needing to happen that haven't happened yet. So he's saying like, oh, I've changed.

But if we assumed that, you know what it is like to be with this person, would you still want to do that?

It's weird, too, because the first half of our relationship before I went to Japan, it was perfect, not perfect. But, you know, it was a really great relationship. We were communication was always really amazing. My needs are met. His needs are met. And then I think when we had to do long distance, he started to go through his whatever. And I was trying to be in Japan away from my friends and family. And I really needed, you know, my boyfriend.

It's so hard because we had only we even dated for a year when I went abroad. And Japan is so far away.

Yeah, well, and there is a particular kind of loneliness and homesickness that you get when you're away that feels very intense and specific and physical sometimes. And so I imagine feeling, you know, a bit heartbroken. And on top of that being in Japan, which I'm sure was exciting and thrilling. But there is that that specific loneliness being being so far away. Yeah, but I could also imagine maybe I'm off base with this. I certainly have had the breakup experience where you break up, you get back together, you're together for a shorter period of time.

You break up again, you break up maybe four times with the increments in between times becoming shorter and shorter. It's like a long, slow, terrible train.

I could see if you got back together with this person that it may have that kind of pattern because your lives are so transitional right now. There's so much change. My gut would be to not get back together with this person. I mean, it's hard to quantify missing somebody and missing a relationship. Dr. Bobby, what do you think?

Well, there's this desire in all of us to have that secure attachment and to have like our special person. And in the early stages of this relationship, it felt like he was that. But I think you bring up such a great point, Donna, that it takes a long time to get to know people and what you learn about them and know is likely to happen again.

I mean, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

And so the experiences are likely to repeat themselves.

How was he when he broke up with you and Marie? Was he kind?

I think he was still in his head and he was not acting like himself at all. And he was kind when he did it. But it was like he broke up with me pretty quickly. I came over to my house. I was with him and his family, like in his hometown the weekend before. I was shocked and after that pretty much cut off contact like every now and then we would text or something. But he was, like, not giving me anything.

So I was sitting here trying to figure out, like, what went wrong is because I went to Japan like, you know, mess everything up.

Well, and this is super important to be aware of to Anne Marie, because that that survival drive the emotions that it brings up in us that maintain our attachments, weirdly enough, feel like shame blaming yourself, trying to figure out what you did wrong, because that very deep part of yourself wants to maintain that attachment.

But you said something that I thought was so important. You said he wasn't acting like himself.

And I say this as, you know, a therapist and a coach. He's worked sometimes with people for years and seemed like the whole arc of a relationship. What if you saw another facet of him that is also part of him that you simply had not been aware of before?

The part that didn't feel like him is also actually him. And that's really something I've actually been thinking about, too, because a way that I've kind of coped with the breakup was like that person that I saw when I got back from Japan was not someone that I'd want to be with. But you're right, like it was another part of himself that maybe wasn't like super healthy and that he keeps telling me, like during haunting, he sort everything out and he's like better.

But he was saying that when he was acting like that, it's because all of these people were telling him to think a certain way and do a certain thing. And you couldn't see his own thoughts. You didn't know how he actually felt because of so many outside people trying to tell him how to feel and how to think. And so over quarantine, he figured out how to separate that with like how he actually feels and then realized that he made a huge mistake and did want to be with me.

Well, and that is interesting because he's able to clearly articulate this is what happened and this is what I have done since then. And I feel like my internal process is really different. And this is why I'm confident that I will be able to be a better partner for you if you give me another chance.

And that's worth something. That is because people do change.

I think the great news is that Amry, this is your timeline. If he loves you and wants to be with you, he won't go away. This is your time to do whatever you want with it. Do you know what I mean? Emmery Like, I think, yeah, as a woman, especially in my 20s, timeline was always around somebody else. I wish I had had the confidence to control that more in my own life.

What if am your new guy is really fun and life loving and brings you the things that you want right now in a different way than potentially being a caretaker and nurturing your ex through his struggles?

A lot of our relationship, I did kind of feel like a caretaker and felt like I had to help him achieve his dreams, which I feel like in a relationship you should want to help your partner achieve their dreams. And I do this. I felt like I had to sacrifice some of my motivation to give him motivation to like want to do it. He needed to do. Yeah. And it just progressively more taxing on me. And then I was kind of the one comforting him when I was abroad in Japan and this new place and then even coming back, it was me giving and giving and giving.

And he's saying that he's not like that anymore. But I don't know. And with my new kind of relationship, it doesn't feel like that like at all, which is really refreshing for me.

Yeah. And Annamarie, I was with an actor in my twenties who would always get sick before an audition. And in a moment of kind of cruelty, I called him out on it. I mean, he hadn't worked for years and he resented me so much. But like, if you guys are both passionate about filmmaking, those are things that you should examine a little bit like cuz of competitive resentment that might not be good for your future goals.

Yeah, I'm actually kind of thought about that before because you could always just be like, oh well, you've already got this or you're doing this. I'm like, OK, you're doing things. Also, I believe I was always having to kind of like be like stop calling yourself a failure. Like we're all struggling and just trying to get work right now.

Yeah, it takes a long time to get to know people. And character is revealed not through like the first few months of romantic bliss. It is revealed when people are stressed out, when they're facing challenges like these are the moments when people really show us what they're made of. And what you're telling us is that when you really think about what the relationship was like for you, it was challenging.

And then it also felt very much about him that there was this like my feelings are sort of more important than your feelings and maybe like the whole time almost.

And we also have to take into consideration the fact that when this guy abandoned you, essentially, and just like cut off this attachment, you went into the space where biologically, if you're like most people, you started idealizing him, thinking about what you might have done wrong to like ruin the relationship, all the things that you could have done differently.

And this is like that elephant part of yourself trying to maintain your attachment to someone that you're right or brain is telling Onna and I right now that maybe it wasn't a good match for you. And it's hard because you're going to have those kinds of feelings for someone.

Who isn't necessarily a good partner?

The feelings are not reliable, so because you went through this experience, I think that you are being more generous with him than you would be without it, because I don't want to make judgments about the relationship.

But I but I will say that in this stage of your life, what your job is almost is to have relationships with different people in order to learn who you are, what you need, what feels good to you, what doesn't feel good to you, so that you can kind of compile the sort of like, OK, this is what I know what I need, because eventually you might connect with like a life partner.

And it's really important that that life partner has the character elements that you need in order to feel good.

I wonder if one of the lessons from this relationship with your ex is that I know I didn't like that and I'm grateful that I had this experience because I know that now.

I also don't discount like you were talking about, Dr. Bobby, the emotional scarring, which I think is important as we are human, as it's an important life experience to go through heartbreak. It's important to recognize, I think, the times we are cruel. It's part of growing. But if you are like me, when I didn't examine my feelings thoroughly enough and value myself, I was totally one of those people that did the long break up. And it felt like at times my hand was being forced because this person was just so not nice to me.

It's like, OK, so I guess I am the one breaking up with you now again, because you're not giving me a choice.

That's a tough position to be in. Maybe I would support you going back to your ex if he made like full sort of reparations on his own, if he really took your feelings into deep consideration, you know, because Dr. Bobby and I weren't there listening to his attempt to apologize and and and win back your heart, I would strongly recommend not going back to him, at least for like a good four months.

I don't know. What do you think, Dr. Bobby?

I'm right there with you, Ana. I mean, my question for you and Maria, an apology.

This is a very, like therapist question.

But like, if we were to flip this, why would you want to go back into this?

Yeah, so that that would be a question. I feel like I'm only hitting on the things that I struggled with in our relationship. So disclaimer like, he was really great still because he probably to listen to this wonderful story because I did.

I really like guidance on this. Oh, my gosh. I think the big thing for me is like trying to figure out if I want to get back together with him is that I do still have feelings with him despite everything. And I do like we've had some really amazing times together. And I know, like, he cares about me so much, Emori.

I so feel you shit. I know. But this is a thing when it comes to these kinds of relationships that make you feel kind of anxious and have these big highs and lows.

You know, this is an unknown therapist thing to say, but you can't always trust those feelings as being reliable sources of guidance about who's going to be a good partner for you, because often it is the most toxic and most unhealthy relationships that make us feel the biggest feels.

So it made me feel a little concern for you. And you said that just now in Marie. Emery, when my ex, my ex in college, she broke my heart, called me one night and wanted me back instead of like calling a podcast, I ran through the night. To his fraternity, I like pounded on the door and flew into his arms, and then I was there for like another three months and I realized, oh my God, I feel so bad about myself, that is this like attachment trauma.

It flares up and it's like this crazy feeling like I have to reconnect with you.

That really drives our behavior. Running through the night is so like expected. And then in the cold light of day, you're like, no, this isn't a good relationship for me.

So, Emory, what are your friends and family think?

Oh, they've all been super supportive and they're like you would you want to do like we support you no matter what you want to do, if you want to get back together with him or if you want to try this new relationship like we support you and trust your judgment. And I'm like, tell me what you would do to yourself. And I think they were all there. You know, my friend with you all went to school together like they saw like the whole saga with my ex.

And they they love him. But they also saw how badly he heard me during the breakup. And of course, they're not going to be super pumped for me to, like, go back to that. But I think they're also like we know that he was like in a bad spot. So if you think he's really changed, then go for it. But they also don't really know the new guy that I've been seeing because it's so fresh and like I haven't been like family friends meet this guy we've been seeing for like three weeks.

So it's kind of hard to judge.

You're a senior. Are you about to graduate?

I'm graduating in April. So, so much of your life is about to change. I don't know if I were in like a regular part of your life, I would tell you to wait on this because you have some big life changes, big life decisions to make. And I want you to be selfish and not take your partner into consideration when you're thinking about how the next, you know, seven years of your life are going to play out. Is that terrible of me, Dr.

Brown? It so much wisdom, because you know what I was just sitting here thinking on it is that you have lived through this.

You have, as I have and seen other people have like makes some of these choices that lead to more heartbreak and disappointment.

You may also have to live through this in order to, like, grow and have your own life experiences where you're like probably shouldn't have done that.

And particularly if, like I was saying, you do have these sort of caretaking tendencies to understand, like what happens to me in relationships when these caretaking tendencies get activated so that, you know, four years from now you could look at a similar relational situation and potentially make a different choice.

I think that on a you and I are both like, it's not going to end well.

So, Anne-Marie, I would table this decision until you graduate like some long conversations on the phone and maybe and be up front with him about this really measure the situation.

Because right now, I think you're feeling the need to be decisive because you've been in this murky limbo for so long with your heartbreak and loneliness. And getting back together will not be it'll feel like the healing balm that you needed for about four or five days, euphoric healing balm. And then there will be a shift a slowly a little bit to the pattern that you guys had before, which was maybe wonderful, I don't know. But recognize that you're both are about to have a lot of changes in your life.

And so I just want to make sure that you don't close yourself off to any of the opportunity in your life. Dr. Bobby, what do you think?

Yes, absolutely.

And and just be very, very careful if you hear the thought happening in your head, as so many, especially women, do, which is he's different or he will be different because lots of women get stuck in bad relationships because of this hope or expectation that it's going to be different than what it had been completely. I mean, it's so true.

And instead, they sort of discount their own experience of, you know, I wasn't good enough or I made these mistakes or he was in a different place, then it's going to be different now. And I mean, you can spend years going around and around that rodeo if that that idea.

And so instead to think about, given what I know about who this person is, as evidenced by what they have shown me so far, is this. Good enough for me. And if the answer is anything but, yes, I wouldn't do it and I would look at your relationship in terms of emotional investment. One partner tends to be more generous or maybe loves someone a little bit more than the other partner loves them is maybe a simplistic idea of this.

But the idea of being more generous than your partner, I think a lot of women do that. I certainly did that. And Anne-Marie is at a place in her life where you kind of have to be selfish. If you you know, if you're really ambitious, don't you think, like, it's just so fucking hard to get ahead.

And I don't know. Now I'm off on a career thing.

But it's true, though, that though I mean, the career thing is a huge part of it for sure.

So, Anne-Marie, think about like if you had to nurture your ex through disappointment, like if you didn't get the approval that he wanted or the grade that he wanted or whatever, like those moments, too, if you found yourself having to nurture and maybe that's a role that you really like.

For me, it was difficult, especially because I was in relationships with people who were, you know, acting or that kind of competitiveness really seeped into our relationship. And it forced me to give more than I wanted. Like I became like the mommy a bit.

I bet that made you feel resentful. Oh, yeah.

We both especially in the relationship in my twenties, we really resented each other and I don't think we realized that.

What do you think, Anne-Marie?

I think I'm really hearing where both of you are saying, especially like working in the film industry, it's so hard and like your jobs are constantly fluctuating and opportunities are like so out of the blue sometimes. And one thing that I kind of regret is when I was getting a role with Japan, I wasn't fully there because I was in my relationship and the relationship with Japan was kind of one sided. So I don't want to make that mistake again because I look back on that.

I just like cry and especially like I know I'm trying to move to either New York or L.A. to follow my dreams. And I really don't want a relationship to get in the middle of, like me trying to do what I want to do. That's definitely been like a huge thing on my mind set for me.

Yeah, I think that's really smart. And Amerie, you get the ego victory of an ex being like, I fucked up.

So dating like everybody's old.

I know everybody, everybody that I think that there's no reason to rush back with him.

You have an opportunity to really analyze this and that. That's a great gift, too, and try things out with this new guy to have new life experiences. You know, maybe in seven, eight months you guys have some really meaningful conversations.

And this is like the love story that you tell at your wedding or whatever. But you have the luxury, I think, Emmery, of digestion and really taking your time, because if you did get back together with him right now, let's say a month from now, you were like, man, I don't know if this is going to work, then you will have to do the breaking up initiative and he will cry and he will be like, I love you so much.

How can you do this to me? And you'll be like, OK, maybe I won't break up with you.

And then you'll be breaking up with him like three months later. You know, it's I this is am I just awful with this prediction?

No, I don't think you're all OK.

But but if if that's a scenario that you could see, I think be gentle with him. He sounds like a lovely person who does love you very much and probably feels like he really needs you right now, which is something that I have felt very much in relationships. And it's really tough at that age to deal with somebody who has convinced themselves that they need you.

You have absolutely agreed, and I think that's such great advice.

As for Anne-Marie to just be consistently thinking what is good for me, right? Yes.

What is good for me and prioritizing your own wellbeing and health and wellness.

And I wouldn't bring up a new guy.

He doesn't necessarily need to have that idea to fixate on and he will go bananas.

Are you connected on social media? Like, could he see pictures of your new guy?

Because that's important that he because he will on a as you call this, freak out. Right, and then it'll become about the new guy when really this is your venture in life and it's not anybody else's. So I would just try to keep those channels clear. And I think Dr. Bobby brought up a great point. Just minimalizing drama in your life, even though drama can be really fun. It can be.

Yeah, I would keep the men separate from each other to some degree. I think if you find yourself with this new guy, things are really developing. Talking about previous relationships can be helpful. Whatever. Anne-Marie, what do you think? Do you like the idea of putting the first guy on pause for a few months?

I think that's something I really needed to hear. I feel like I've been kind of pressure and I'm trying I have been pretty honest with both of them about what's going on with that. Like, you know, like I don't want to tell the new guy, like, my whole story, essentially. But I did tell him, like, hey, this is happening right now because I just feel really guilty of having feelings for two people. Makes me feel like I'm cheating.

And so I'm like, we're kind of on a little break right now. And then I go home and we have to go so slow like I want to talk. But I think cabling is honestly the greatest thing that I could probably do with my ex at leave, because I can't really compare the two of like who do I love more? Because I've only known the first guy for a month, barely, and I've known my ex for four years.

Yeah, but Emori make it about you just be like, this is me. These are my decisions. I get to make them. You're at such a great time in life that is so stressful and you have to be selfish if you want to achieve your dreams and you get to make the decisions. And if you want to tell your ex, which I think you should, it's OK if we talk a few times here and there. But I really need this time to assess everything.

And I love you.

I always will try not to cry, Amerie, if you can. Yes. Because you've done that though. You have you've lived through the pain. You have that scar so you can move forward with a degree of strength when it comes to him because you've already been cut deep. Some of the nerves have been dulled totally.

If I could add to Anne-Marie, I would also advise that you think in advance about how you are going to hold those boundaries, because when you say I need some time to myself, this is going to be about me.

You're like asking him to maintain boundaries for you. So, like, don't call me as much.

Oh, that's a great point, Dr. Bobby. So what does she do?

Well, because what's going to happen is that he is going to get absolutely activated on that attachment level. And that will very predictably create a situation where he is now feeling like she's slipping away.

So he's going to try to pursue her. So you'll get you'll get calls and you'll get the stuff.

And so, Anne-Marie, to be really thinking about how am I going to maintain my healthy boundaries because he is getting all activated and scared right now.

And that can mean giving yourself permission to not answer the phone, block his stuff for a little while so you don't have to see or read or hear the messages because clearly you do care about him.

And so it's going to pull this response and you where you respond to him. And if you do that, not thoughtfully, it will get very easy to get sucked back into an emotional connection with someone that I think me and Anna are hearing. You say you're not sure you want to be in, so you get to decide. And just because someone is pursuing you vigorously does not mean that you need to participate in that. Does it make sense as that makes total sense?

Especially because when I told the new guys, like, I need some space to figure out what's going on, how I feel, we didn't talk for like two days. And then he brought me up to my door and wrote me a whole letter. And then I had to text him like, hey, I got your stuff. Thank you. And then now he's taking all the time. So it's like right now it's so hard to, like, establish that this is for sure or let's face it, really is.

Yeah. Your ex could be looking for the safety and security and reassurance of what you had and you might reflect on your memories with that. Like, oh, this is how it used to be. It could be like that. Again, he's probably looking at it as like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. I miss Emory. This is the path I need to take right now, at least four months maybe of giving yourself. I wish someone had reinforced this again and again when I was in my 20s.

You don't have any kids. You don't have a job that I knew to a particular location. You know, this is a time when you. Should assess each decision with like, is this for me, is there anything that's like tugging at me? I should listen to those warning signs.

Bobby, how can she protect herself a little bit from the desire out of loneliness and familiarity to go back to her ex at least for four months?

I think that knowledge is power. And whenever an attachment is threatened or, like you said, so insightfully, honor, that he isn't feeling safe and his own life in the world.

And so there's this biological desire to reconnect.

It doesn't mean that it's a good relationship. And Anne-Marie, you are vulnerable because you are clearly a nice person. And I would suspect that you're setting limits like, no, I don't want to talk to, you know, stop texting me is going to feel to you like you're being mean.

So I think it would be important to do some work around that where you're like, I have the right to have boundaries, I have the right to have relationships that feel good for me.

And also that his sort of protestations of love may be fueled by his own anxiety as opposed to some like, you know, amazing, magical love, and that he needs to calm down and stand on his own two feet for a while so that you both can have the time and space to see who he really is and what he's really capable of again.

And you brought up another amazing point, because people get pregnant and if you bring children into the world and I have actually walked by the side of people who have done this.

And Marie, they've been in a in a kind of a quasi relationship with somebody that's sort of a mixed bag.

And they get pregnant and they have children with this person. And three or four years later, they're living in a nightmare that they can't get out of easily. And right now, you have a lot of power and control and freedom that you won't have when you have a different level of responsibility and obligation and like a family situation. So be real cautious.

Thank you. That's really great advice, Emery. I'm really excited for your future and congratulations on your upcoming graduation. That is awesome. And your career that you have ahead of you. I'm so excited for you.

Thank you so much. And, Honor, I was listening to your podcast since I was like literally in high school and I looked up to you from what I've been talking to you is so insane. Oh, my God.

I love that. Thank you. And, Emery, will you please be in touch? I'm sure we're going to get a lot of response about this call. And I so appreciate you sharing everything with us. It was wonderful. Thank you. And you're so insightful, like you, very self-aware. And Marie, this is a huge strain, especially for being so. Really. Thank you. Oh, my gosh.

Thank you. I love you. And. You know my love for the Hodgy.

Yes. Thanks, Emery, for calling. Thank you so much.

This is so fun by Dr. Bobby. Thank you. You are so wise. You are so wise.

If this is a great call, it was so fun to be able to give Anne-Marie some direction. I loved it. Thank you again. Have a wonderful rest of your day to by Dr. Bobby.