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Hey, everyone, today's guest is the magnificent Gwyneth Paltrow, of course, you know her from a million things, including her role as CEO of the lifestyle brand Goop. As an actress, she has given some of my favorite performances in movies like The Royal Tenenbaums, The Talented Mr. Ripley, Sliding Doors and of course, her Academy Award winning performance in Shakespeare in Love later in the episode. I'm excited to welcome back best selling author Rachel Hollas. Rachel has some great insight and advice to share on the topic of dating during and after a pandemic.


As always, thank you for your kind words, reviews and telling your friends about our show. It makes me so happy to watch the unqualified community grow. I also want to thank you for your openness in sharing your stories. If you want to write to us, just go to unqualified dotcom and look for the link. OK, here she is, Gwyneth Paltrow.


Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to Unqualified with their host unfairest. Hi, grandma, how are you doing? My heart is racing a little bit because I take it as such a compliment that you are doing this podcast. Thank you so much.


I'm thrilled. Thanks for having me. And my only encounter, I believe, with you was in the green room at the Golden Globes and you were just so kind to me. I remember you, like, looked me in the eye. We talked briefly. I vaguely remember you asking me how I was.


And it's unusual, I think, for celebrities to ask questions of celebrities, don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.


So I was happy to meet you and I've been a fan of yours, so it's nice to get some time with you over this medium. Cool.


Yeah. So can we dive into some life questions? Absolutely. All right.


I want to cover like 80 things will start at a little bit easy.


I wanted to ask you at the softest item in your closet was probably an elder statesman cashmere sweater that I bought in the fall. That's probably the most expensive sweater I've ever bought, embarrassingly. But it was so soft that I had to do it.


Yes, I completely understand. All right. We covered softest item. Gweneth, have you learned anything about yourself in terms of quarantine?


I think a lot. I've learned that I like puzzles and knitting, which was very surprising. I hear you.


Have you picked up anything during this time or is the isolation bubble something that as a celebrity you're used to?


It's a good question. I mean, I am naturally a homebody, and I think that's why it was like a part of being an actor that I really didn't love, being away from home, being alone in a hotel room, ordering room service, being disconnected from my friends and family even before I had kids and everything. I love being at home.


So for me, I think this whole experience, the part of it that has kept me home, I have loved so much, like I have loved being with my teenagers all day, every day, even though sometimes they drive me nuts. I love that cocooned sort of thing, but I feel a little bit like I didn't fully leverage this time. Like, you know how to knit now, like, I didn't learn a new language.


I just was like, no, you're building an empire. I'm knitting. I can pay off. Why don't do a cashmere sweater? Will you buy it? I'll buy it. So here's a topic of conversation, and I sort of want to go deeper, if you don't mind.


Do it. I want to talk about your relationship with fame. It must be such a huge part of your life. Have you ever felt anonymous?


Oh, golly. I mean, I've been in the public eye for so many years. The surreal part is having been famous basically my whole adult life. So I don't know what it means to be a grown up without all of the scrutiny and all of the wonderful things and terrible things that come with being a famous person. I think our culture idealizes fame so much, and I actually think it's a pretty terrible thing to be famous if our purpose on the planet is for human development and to really become the truest, best versions of ourselves.


I think fame is a huge impediment to that. And I've had to work really hard to separate the fame from who I am. I mean, now at this point, it's OK. I mean, sometimes I still I'm like, oh, this is such a weird experience. But the level of projection that a famous person has around who they are and what people think of them, you know, for me anyway, I had to really stop internalizing it.


And actually, when I look back when I got famous, I was probably like twenty two years old and I was starting out and you have a publicist and every day the publicist would way pre Internet fax. If you were in US magazine, which was a monthly magazine at that point, they would fax you, oh, you're in The New York Times today and literally six months into it, I said, I have to stop this. This is not healthy.


This has nothing to do with me. I'm getting, like, excited. If somebody writes something good, I'm getting depressed. If somebody writes something bad, this is none of my business. And so I haven't really read anything about myself in a really, really long time. And I've tried to focus on cultivating who I actually am as a person just while understanding I am in the public eye. And there's a ton of opinions and projections and trying to not let that influence my relationship with myself.


I knew you were going to give me an amazing and thoughtful answer. Gwenyth, I was listening to a podcast you were on. I think a wonderful quality about you is that you worked so hard growing up. You had a variety of jobs. I think you mentioned that you started working when you were fourteen.


I was younger, yeah. Twelve maybe. Yeah.


And I love that about you. I think that that stupidly it surprised me. I had the pleasure of working with your mom, whom I adore. Oh. I was embarrassed for myself that I made an. Assumption that your path is not that it wasn't difficult, but maybe it was a little more laid out. I really admire that you really worked and I loved when you spoke about being a hostess and consumer care and making sure that people felt, heard and respected.


It probably surprised you because there is an element about the surprise that makes sense, right? Like I grew up in a wealthy family and I went to private school and there definitely was an element of privilege in my upbringing. Sometimes we get so binary. So that means, oh, you've had everything laid out for you. But the truth is that it's more complex and that my dad, who was a completely self-made man, was obsessive about my brother and I understanding that the wealth that we grew up in was his and not ours.


And we were not entitled to any of it, nor would we ever be. And so he said, you can enjoy this while you're here and I love you and I'm going to share this with you while you live with me. But when you're done, you're done like I'm not giving you a penny. I will never help you. And he stuck to it. So we had jobs after school. My brother worked at the deli on the corner.


I worked at a toy store or to the store. I worked summer jobs. I worked. He's like, if you want money, you have to work for the money. So I think what that did was really instill in me this work ethic, but also at the same time, like I was growing up in a beautiful townhouse in Manhattan. So it was a funny juxtaposition. It was a very valuable parenting lesson, let's put it that way.


And I remember when I quit college to try to be an actress, he was like, I fully support this. This is great, but I am not helping you. I mean, there were times where I was like, but I have no gas money to get to this audition. And he was like, that's not my problem. I love you, but that's not my problem.


Wow, that's impressive. I always imagine that the time between being nominated and winning an award would be euphoric and lonely. What was your experience like winning an Oscar?


I remember it was a very surreal time. I was doing a movie in Vancouver. My dad was directing and he was recovering from this crazy cancer surgery at the time. And I'm so glad that I was focusing on him. My whole family was there. My brother, my mom. We were just kind of like all banded together as a family to get my dad through this movie, which was really hard. And thank God I had that to focus on because it was the weirdest, most surreal time.


And, you know, you're also kind of embarrassed that you're nominated for an Oscar and you have imposter syndrome when you think, like, I can't even believe this is happening and I'm not even that good. And does everybody hate me? It's the most bizarre time. But then at the same time, in my case, I hadn't won yet. So I was kind of like, well, of course, I'm not going to win, but this is kind of cool, too.


And also this feeling of goodwill from people.


Obviously, if you're not in L.A., people don't even really know or care about the Oscars to the degree that we think they do in L.A. everybody was so supportive. And then I remember winning and feeling like, OK, this is the tide sort of turned. And there was like this feeling of when you have that much attention on you and that much kind of energy, it was really, really overwhelming.


I remember I was staying with my parents at their house in Santa Monica and I just kind of like kid for three weeks afterwards.


It was so intense and I felt so lonely is the right word. It was really strange.


I felt that way when I got Scary Movie. I can totally relate Gweneth.


No, but it's the same. You have anything that you really want and like a gateway to other things and achievement. It's like we all have those things that are on our vision border in our head and when we're sixteen. So it's crazy when they come true.


It's absolutely crazy. OK, what is the trait you dislike in others? At my grumpy old age, there are a lot I love it, but if I have to pick one. Oh yeah. I mean, dishonesty. If someone's not honest, they're just wasting your time on every level.


I feel always taken aback, especially in the business world. And someone's dishonest. I don't think it's linked to my own naiveté, but maybe it is. I don't know. Dishonesty is something that just baffles me.


Yeah, a lot of people are not honest. It's wild. In order to be an honest person, you have to have a level of comfort with who you actually are. And I think a lot of people don't have that. So I feel sometimes real compassion for people who can't be honest, but I just don't want to be around them.


Yeah, OK. Would you consider yourself a romantic? I think I got boy crazy like 10.


I got that way later. I was a late bloomer. My defense mechanisms come out like around real intimacy and vulnerability. So that's what I've had to kind of work on in real life. And when you're in that crusty sort of teenage thing, like your fears around intimacy and vulnerability aren't part of the fantasy. So it's this pure feeling of romanticism and love. And then you go through life and you get the shit kicked out of you and then, you know, you show up kind of less vulnerable and that feeling can be less accessible.


But I think I'm a real romantic. It just takes a while to get all the way down there.


I have diaries, films about this guy, Ryan Shervon guy.


He was a child and he was the fastest runner at my school and I was the shortest kid. And it was just I love Ryan, Shervon. And my mom was like, I don't want you to be boy crazy. Your boy crazy. She really wanted me to make my own money to be independent, not rely on men probably to a fault.


Actually, I think you can be boy crazy and also make your own money. And that's what you should.


By the way, what talents or ability would you most like to have? I would like to be a lot better at math. Oh, that's a good one. No one has ever given that answer. I'm so dumb with math and like I really need it for my business and it's so hard for me and I can get there eventually, but I'm just not good at it. It's just not the way my brain works. It was never my favorite subject.


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This episode is brought to you by the original documentary Hysterical. The world of stand up comedy has always been a male domain.


Hysterical follows the funniest women in comedy as they shatter the glass ceiling, go on the road behind the velvet curtains and into the beer soaked clubs of the comedy scene with the veterans, the rising stars and the novices watch them change the game and explore what it takes to become the voices of their generation and gender as they share their heartfelt struggles, personal stories and hilariously bold opinions.


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But I think the reason that I feel fulfilled is because I've worked really hard to find my integrity and to be brave and giving myself permission to go after those things that are harder or more embarrassing to get or feel scary. And so it's like I'm going to be winding up my 40s here in a few years. And I kind of gave myself a goal when I was around my fortieth birthday to really try to be absolutely true to myself and to live that.


And so that's what I've been kind of going for. And I do have to say the fulfillment that comes when you forgive yourself and you give yourself permission to really be who you are is pretty profound.


I can only imagine that it must also be free. I wanted to ask you if your taste in partners has changed throughout the decades of your life.


If you find this intriguing, I do find it really intriguing and I think it applies to everybody because the choices that you make when you are less resolved, a younger person really become about what you're trying to heal through a romantic relationship. And so we all have those aspects that we're trying to heal. And we're young and we don't realize that. We're just projecting a lot of stuff from our childhood onto a person and then hoping to change the outcome of our childhood by dating this guy or this woman.


I feel like I really for a long time was choosing men and trying to work shit out with them that I had no business trying to do in a romantic relationship. It was work that I needed to do myself. I was really good at choosing men for a while there that I could make it all about them and not have to focus on my own problems.


I think that was such a generous thing for you to say. It's really true, though, is really true. And it's like in a divorce, you know, I've learned so much from something that I wanted, least in the world, like I never would have wanted to get divorced. I never would have wanted to not be married to the father of my kids theoretically.


But I have learned more about myself through that process than I could have imagined. And because I focused on accountability, I was then able to find, like the most amazing man and build something that I've never had before with Brad, my husband.


What point in your relationship did you recognize that? Was that immediate with Brad?


No, because we were friends first for a long time. And then once I was like, are we going to date? Is this like happening? I was scared because he's a person who demands presence and intimacy and communication in a way that I just didn't know how to like. I like to fight by shutting down. I'm like, goodbye. I like leave the room. Yeah, I'm the same way. And he was like, no, he's like, absolutely not.


Like we're sitting down and we're figuring this out. And he demands that I am honest with myself in a way that is hard for me, but which really helps me grow. So I think I recognize his amazing qualities. But until we were in a relationship and I was like, oh my God, it was like being with some kind of jujitsu master where they're like, no, I'm going to make you see your own stuff for you to be able to win and advance.


You know what I mean?


I do. I'm engaged to a man who's demanded the same thing, which I had never had before. I had never been confronted with, like, intense eye contact, actually.


Oh, it's so awful, isn't it? Well, sometimes it can be pretty hot. No, I know.


But just like I'm the same, like avoidant and like, you don't reveal everything about me. Yes.


You're one hundred percent, right? I've been married twice. You've been married twice already. And this is going to be your third. Yeah. Nice.


I like your style but my two other marriages were with actors and I don't think we did a great job of eliminating competitiveness, or at least I didn't, you know, being a proud person and not wanting to reveal vulnerability. Any hints of competitiveness and comparison, I didn't handle that very well. I don't think and I hope I've grown from that. OK, Gwenyth, when we are free to travel, where are you going first?


Usually in June, we go to the UK and we visit the kids family and then we have some kind of little time somewhere in Europe. We'll take the train to France or something. And it's. Also been very cool to just be in America for a year. Yeah, it's been great and obviously all the travel has been so reduced, which has been a great but I always think that you learn something about yourself by going into a country where you don't speak the language and where you're discovering all the time.


And I miss that. I do miss that. I would like to get back to Europe maybe this summer. Do you think.


Yeah, that would be so nice. Yeah.


All right. This is a question that I sometimes ask people what the relationship is with social media because it fascinates me. But I'm worried that with you it is complicated and also very business oriented. I'm bad at it.


I am not on Facebook. I think my team maybe puts me on Facebook, but I've never been on Facebook. I do Instagram, which is pretty easy to do and I'm not on Twitter. So I would say it's limited and I have a weird relationship with it. It's like obviously it's a point of influence and I think people think it's important for you to have followers for work and stuff like that, which also seems weird. I don't know. I'm terrible at it.


Like, I don't know what I'm doing on there.


I know I don't even want to waste time talking about it.


I would rather know what a trait you dislike in yourself as Oh, I'm really impatient.


That's the trait that I like, least in myself. Like really impatient. Yeah. If I'm stressed out and then things aren't lining up quickly, it's not good.


OK, who would you invite to your dream dinner party would be great to have a dinner party with you and all of your exes. Like how fucking crazy would that be. And like challenging and embarrassing and funny and like what would you learn about yourself and them? That's what I would.


That's amazing. Like anybody after a breakup, you want your former partner to be like you were the best things ever happened to me. I miss you. I need you, my life. What the fuck was I thinking? And whether or not you take them back is irrelevant. Why would that happen at our dinner party?


Maybe. Should we do it? I love this. I love this idea.


Can you imagine. Oh my God. That would be so funny and weird.


Gweneth, has a stranger ever changed your life? I think certainly in lots of little ways. I can't think of anything like, oh, someone said this and it saved my life or something. But I've had these moments like I remember once I was on a flight. I think I actually put this on Instagram because I was so touched. But this flight attendant gave me a note that said, like, I was once a daddy's girl, too, or something was like right after my dad died.


And I felt so seen then, like I felt that human nature can be so kind.


And what a generous way to deliver that message.


I know it was so sweet. Sticks out to me. That's really beautiful. I love that lady wherever she is.


You gave me the best vitamins I've ever had. Oh, good. Yes. And I continue to order them and I really could use more goop in my life because I'm not the healthiest person.


I'll send you a whole basket.


You have no idea. That just gets me so excited. I tell us about the things that you are really loving with goup these days. I mean, I remember maybe like three years ago you had this awesome, like, survivor kid that I really wanted. I couldn't find it the other day.


But what things are you really excited about with?


You know, I love what we make because I love women so much. And the point of the site is really to help women optimize their lives and give them tools to make great choices. I really believe in non toxic beauty. And so it's so amazing to be able to make products. And we have all these other great brands that are clean on the site as well. I love what's happening in the world of clean beauty, and I think it's really empowering for women to be able to make choices around looking better and doing whatever that is for them, whether it's clean beauty, exercise injectables, whatever it is that make them feel good.


Yeah, I wanted to ask you about an injectable. I'll totally tell you about it.


I had always been a person who was a little wary of injectables, like I'm kind of a tomboy. I don't really wear a lot of makeup unless I'm talking to you. And I found this thing called Zemun, which is a purified version of an anti wrinkle thing. So I try that and it's been great. Like, you don't need it yet. You're still a spring chicken.


Well, first of all, there's a nice filtration thing happening here. I like Botox, but I want to do whatever you're doing in life.


Well, this one is nice because it doesn't have any, like, extra proteins or anything weird in it. It's a very natural looking one. So it's really the right one for me. But I always say, like, whatever we need to do as women and mothers as we age, like go for it. I support everybody. And whatever it is, I love it.


Can you tell us about your oldest friendship? Yes, of course. My oldest friendship. Is with a woman named Mary Wigmore, we met in kindergarten when in those days you started kindergarten when you were four, turning five now we would have been a year back, but we were both four when we started. And she has been my best friend since then. It's more like we're sisters because we grew up in each other's homes and with each other's parents and siblings and we've been with each other through everything.


And she's like family to me. And that's one of the most cherished relationships of my life. I have a lot of really old friends, but she's the oldest.


I think that I always struggled with female friendships. I felt like there was a language that I didn't know how to speak in terms of trying to make friends with women. I think that I let jealousy get in the way, like consume me too much, which is just such an awful feeling. Interesting.


So then I maybe in my early thirties, my strategy for combating jealousy was to attempt to befriend anybody that I had those feelings towards, because it is impossible, I think, to have any vitriol with somebody who you genuinely like.


Well, I think that as women in our society to work, a lot of us are taught that there's not enough pie for all of us and that if one woman has something, it means we're not getting it. And that's absolute bullshit. Like the world becomes so much more beautiful and fruitful when women succeed and when we support each other. It's a lesson that my mom taught me really early. I remember once was between me and one other girl for this movie.


I was like 19 or 20. I was just starting and I didn't get it. The other girl got it and I kind of bad mouthed her and said, like, she's not even that good. And my mother was like, Oh, no, no, no, no. Don't you ever, ever say that about another woman. If you didn't get that part, then that just means it's not your part. It doesn't mean anything about you.


And don't hold on to that like your part's coming. And so it really flipped that competitive thing for me. And I just thought, yeah, that's true. It's obviously not my part if I didn't get the part. And I think it really goes along with one of my main philosophies in life, which is that life happens for you, not to you. So if life is happening for you and something happens that hurts or is hard, that's ultimately for a reason and it's a good thing completely OK.


Was there a book or a TV show or anything from your childhood that changed your outlook on life or something that was very formative? Oh, yeah.


What popped into my head right away was a record called Free to Be You and Me, which was this record of stories and songs. And it was like this very progressive feminist album I used to listen to. That would be like, wow, you know, I can be anything I want. And women are as good as men.


I was probably like eight or nine or something like that. That had a big impact on me.


I remember that record. OK, we have a second half to this podcast that focuses on relationships. OK, do you have any general advice or words of wisdom?


Well, I'll tell you something that sounds kind of trite and sort of new agey, but is just the truest axiom.


If you don't really, really love yourself, if you're walking around in the world thinking I'm not good enough and I'm not pretty enough or I'm not this enough or that enough, you're never going to bring a full self to a relationship like how could somebody love you as much as you love them if you don't love yourself? Yeah. And by the way, it's taken me 40 years to learn that. So your listeners are rad because they're contemplating the stuff at a much younger age.


And the way to really start to love yourself is to forgive yourself, forgive, forgive, forgive, bathe yourself and like warm light of forgiveness, and then you'll start to get in touch with those things about yourself that are so unique and beautiful.


I love you so much. Thank you. I really do. I really do. I've been so looking forward to talking with you.


Oh my gosh. Thank you. I'm so happy that I got to be on your podcast. Thank you for having me.


Thank you for being so fucking amazing. All right. I hope someday our paths can cross.


They will someday we'll be back in the Golden Globes waiting room together and I'll give you a giant hug. I love that.


Thank you so much. Take care. Bye bye.


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You can find out everything Rachel is doing at our website, MWS, Rachel Hollas Dotcom. Hi, Rachel, thanks again for joining us. Oh, my gosh, my pleasure. All right, let's call Carla.


Hi. Hey, how are you? I'm good. It's so nice to meet you. You too. Thanks for doing this. I am here with Rachel Hollis. She's the best selling author of Girl Wash Your Face and Girl Stop Apologizing. And she's amazing. Carla, tell us what's going on.


Yeah. So I made a big cross-country move about five months ago and ended a three year relationship at that time, moving away from all my family and friends. So I just started online dating like a month ago. The first guy I met, we spent like probably 10 hours talking to each other over the course of two weeks and, like, really hit it off. And I was like, oh, my gosh, you can actually meet someone online.


This is so great.


And then we got tested for covid so we could get together and he made me suffer at his house. It went great, I thought. And then he straight up ghosted me and didn't speak to me again after I went to his house for dinner.


Why I don't fucking get this. So I've only ever dated my friends.


I've only ever dated people that I already know really well and that know me really well. So they kind of like know what they're signing up for when they want to be in a relationship with me and vice versa. There's like tons of emotional safety for me and dating people that I already know. I'm thirty years old, but I don't feel like I've ever actually dated.


The first time you went out on this thing, you thought it was great and then you got burned. Yeah.


And it's like, screw that guy, whatever. I started dating again. I have a second date tomorrow with the new guy. I'm just like, so confused about how people actually date. So it's probably like questions usually like a twenty year old with Ed when they just start dating. But I feel like I just started dating and I don't know, like how much to reveal about myself when I don't want to lead with all of my whole history right off the bat.


Keep some of the less enjoyable things about myself until a certain point. But like at what point do I reveal how much of myself and how do you date someone that you don't even know? Like there's so much depth in dating, my friend.


I think this is right up Rachel's alley. Right. OK, so I'm going to trip you out right now, Carla. I am thirty eight and I have never dated. Meaning I met my ex husband when I was 18 years old, so literally never kissed a guy, never went on a date except the one single person who I married, which is wild. So now I find myself thirty eight years old.


I am truly doing all of this for the very first time because you are not the first person who is like, I don't know how to date.


I don't even know what to do. I don't think there are rules for dating. I think there are rules for being you.


Like you have core values as a human being that you believe in, that you want to see, that you want to put out into the world. And I think that's how you navigate dating, like you navigate it the same way you would navigate. Making a friend like these are the values that this person has to have, meaning like they're not a jerk. They're nice to the waiter. They make me laugh. They like the same stuff that I do.


And I think that you pursue that. That guy ghosted you. Great. You just found out that you went over to dinner at some insecure unconfident, like. Yeah, because if he was confident, he'd be like, hey, Carla, I had so much fun with you. But it's just not the vibe that I'm looking for. Like that's what an actual grown up does. So, yay, you dodged a bullet. But I think for me, I want to show up as myself because I want to know as fast as possible if this is not the right thing.


I love that. That doesn't mean that I sort of let all the crazy out the first time that I talk to someone. But I'm not afraid to be myself and I'm paying a lot of attention to how someone is responding. Did he think that thing was really funny, too? Did he sort of have a similar belief around that? Because those are cues that I'm paying attention to to find out if this is something that I need to try and keep pursuing totally.


And actually, that's one thing that made me feel OK about this scenario. I felt like I didn't misrepresent myself at all. I want someone that really wants to date me. Right. It's just like, how are people so nice? And then all of a sudden they're they're immature and can't handle, you know, like I've had to let people down since I started online dating. And it's not fun to be on either side of that, but it's so much easier to just like it was great to meet you.


But you're not for me and I'm not for you. So let's keep it moving.


Carlat, if I were in your shoes with that one situation, it would feel like a tick under my skin to not get, like, any kind of explanation or closure or anything on that.


Then the other thing I have is I have been comparing other people as I continue to go on first dates, not necessarily compare the person to this guy, but compared how I felt. Right, because I did feel like a pretty strong connection to this guy and attracted to him and all the things you want to feel when you start dating. So how much value should I give that comparison, Carla, if I could take that last experience in a race that I'm forty four and working on, like the comparison ideas that I still have, whether it's friends, career siblings, all of that stuff, just.


No, Carla, as you get older, those feelings tend to really dissipate, which is great. There could be a gazillion explanations that you may never know with this guy. I wish I could prevent you from comparing that experience to anything else that you'll have in the future.


Is it worth like keeping that feeling, though? You've been trying to look for that feeling again and comparing, like, how you feel about new people?


Well, I always fall hard, fast. I think that's how I'm built. And who doesn't love those feelings of being in love? That's what we're all kind of looking for. So I want you to have those feelings, Carla, and I just want somebody to protect them and have them with you.


You know what I thought of when Anna was talking was this old quote that says, comparison is the death of joy, that the second that we start comparing ourselves to someone else's relationship, life job, that we rob all of the joy and the abundance in our own life.


And I think that this also shows up in relationships that when you compare this new person to that guy that you had dinner with, one time you robbed this new opportunity of ever being anything, you know, like I don't feel the way that I felt when I was having that experience.


But it feels like you're not giving the new person the chance to, like, be whatever it's going to be.


You got to look for that spark, because that's what this is all about. Like it's that connection. It's that butterflies in your stomach, whatever. But not looking for that guy or girl who gave you that spark.


And hopefully the people you're going out on dates with can suppress those ideas, too, if they're fearful about getting into a relationship because they had a similar experience. I've been trying to work on really attempting to be present and dedicate at least 70 to 80 percent of my thinking brain to the person that's in front of me and absorbing who they are, you know, and it's always difficult to do that when there's something else that's tugging at your brain. And I'm really sorry that this thing happened to you, because I do think it was impactful as it would be for anybody, especially because you're new to online dating.


So to have your emotions invested that much early on, that is hard.


It all feels like learning as well, like it's just part of my new, quote unquote, journey of being like a big career change and moved away from all my friends. And it's like how you date people you don't know who have no come up. And if they don't, I don't know. I don't know how to do that without the emotional safety of friends. How are you approaching that? You're kind of in the same boat.


Yeah, I know this is so much harder in side of a pandemic, but for what it's worth, what I keep thinking for you is like the same advice I give.


I have a lot of women in my community who are like, how do I make friends like I'm an adult and how do I make friends? It's hard to make great female friendships as an adult. And what I always suggest that they do is find a common hobby.


I know that sounds like something I would tell my eight year old, but we all of us have like the thing that we're super into, like really nerdy. And I don't care who you are, what you look like, what your ages. If you're into the thing I'm into, we can be buddies. And I think that's so often that's where relationships start. I think that, like, OK, you're not attracted that guy, but then maybe he has a friend.


Like you said, you're used to dating people who are your friends. Right. So they know what to expect. And like, you can vibe with them before it's ever something that's more formal.


So what if you sort of lead out on that? Like in my dating profile right now, I have images of like the kind of thing that I would also want this person to be into.


So there's no surprise if you, like, want to go eat kale and do a cross class. I am not the girl for you. I'm like eating a burger and drinking scotch. So, like, you are going to vibe with me right off the bat and know what I'm about. And I think it's the same for you. It's like lead out with who you are and find your people.


The other thing I've started doing is I've given up the I don't know, for a long time. I had a thing that you have when you're young or it's like, I don't want to ask people to set me up or tell people I want to be in a relationship because, like, makes me feel vulnerable or whatever. But I've given that up and I have made some good friends here already. Put the word out like, hey, if you know anyone, you think I would click with Carla.


I love that mindset. I hope it doesn't sound patronising that I feel proud of you. At 30, I think that's really wise to be like, yeah, why does that feel so hard to do, though? I guess because we are so scared of being heartbroken, of being hurt, of being less than because it can feel painful. But I was thinking about this the other day, like how if something embarrassing happens to me, like a few years ago I was walking around downtown Seattle and I was wearing this sweater dress and it was I didn't realize that it was tucked into my nylons.


I was wearing nylons weirdly in the back. So my ass was showing I was probably walking around for about 20 minutes with my ass just hanging out, having not felt that I was pretty mortified. But I found relief with confession.


As soon as I unloaded sort of my experiences, my truth, I felt more embraced. I was a really proud person, probably till I was like thirty four in a detrimental way. I think it kept me really closed off to people. But I think that approach of telling friends and family, putting things out there in the universe, as we say, of like this is what I would like and I'm fun. I'm beautiful. If you know people who are as bad as I send my way in this instance, I think about you said the universe.


And it made me think like in terms of manifesting, I don't think that we attract what we want. I think we attract what we are. How you show up in the world and the vibration that you put out into the world around you is what brings people into your life. And so I think this is two things. One, you have to make sure that you are vibrating at your highest level, like how are you taking care of yourself? How are you leveling up?


How are you loving yourself? Well, doing all of this stuff because that is creating the energy that you want surrounding you. And then also, if someone's going to come into my life, whether it's a friend or, you know, someone that I want to date, I know exactly what I want.


And I don't say like, oh, I like want them to look a certain way or be a certain age. But I know the personality traits and the qualities that I want in a person because I don't want there to be any confusion for myself about what would be acceptable here, because I just think that the more specific that you get with your intention and what you put out there, it like blows my mind how stuff shows up.


The idea of making a list. Yeah. Is concrete.


And I can you know, you don't have to show that to anybody. That can just be for you. I really believe in writing goals as if they have already happened. Like without question is why I have the success I have in my life. I've done this for a decade. I do this in my business, my career as how I want to show up as a mom or a friend. And I write the things that I want as a like this is a thing.


So I would say and I have this in my journal right now, Carla, like, I am so happy and grateful that I found a partner who did it.


Like, I just wrote it out like a paragraph and sort of described it like a scene, because I think it's important to visualize what it is you're wanting to create in the world.


And that way, you know, when it shows up in front of you, because I do think that it can really get muddled. And I think on you said you tend to fall hard and fast because I'm like, oh, my, we're going to be best friends. And no, you just they were in line at Starbucks come down.


That's not how this works. So it's really easy to start acting from a place of emotion instead of, like, being thoughtful about it. So I think that the better we are setting ourselves up for what we want to attract, the more easily we're going to see it and the more easily we're going to know, yeah, that guy is actually not the person you want. He's just hot in your emotions are running away with you right now.


And that same inclination also made me forgive things that hurt my feelings without being vocal about it. You know, plans get dropped because a buddy's in town or like the little things that I wish I was in a mental place where I could have said, hey, that hurt my feelings. I just want to let you know and here's why. But I was too proud. I wanted the love so much. I just ignored a lot of my hurt feelings in an attempt to.


Yeah, people please so that you can get the love that you're hoping for. Yeah. Yeah. Carla, I love that as you talk about, you know, putting stuff out in the world and being honest. I love the idea of clocking some of those things.


It's so easy to want to give people the benefit of the doubt as well. Like, obviously, I want to find love and have love, but I also find it so easy to put myself in another person's shoes and be like, well, they could be acting this way for all these 12 different reasons. And they're probably a good person.


And but see, that's a motion that's not your brain. That's your heart. And I. Do you think that you have to keep coming back to like, OK, let me think through this in the right way and not color this because I'm a writer, like that's my job. I can imagine anything. I can make up whole scenarios and 50 different ways that this can play out. And because I'm a romantic, I can absolutely let myself go into a place where I'm like, oh, no, this is what.


No, no, no. Just look at exactly what is happening in front of you, not the thing that you're imagining in your head. I think one of the skill sets that I have coming into this new world of dating and considering partners is how much I have done to learn personality types, Enneagram love language like you talked about.


Avoidance like that is such a game changer because I'm meeting people and going, oh, I know exactly what's going on right here, and I know how our personalities are going to buttheads over this thing. And so I can sort of cut that off at the pass, a gap that's probably never going to work because you and I are both the same personality type and we're going to end up competing with each other. And that is not something that I'm trying to create.


So this is a good opportunity for you, Carla, to dig into that self-awareness and what's going on in you, because it'll help you when you're navigating a relationship with someone else.


Totally. And one thing I tried to get better at is allowing for the benefit of the doubt to exist, but also asking for what I need. So, like, whatever the reason you're acting that way is, regardless of that, I still need these three things from you. And I need to be treated this way no matter what you've got going on in your life. This is this is my baseline of how I how I deserve to be respected.


Sometimes it's easier said than done. But I want to try to think about that.


Carla, what's so cool, though, about what I'm hearing from you? I mean, you've moved to a new place. You don't have any of your security blankets. And it sounds like you know more about yourself than maybe ever before, which is incredibly impressive. I've definitely had a lot of time, haven't we, all of the personality stuff I'm going to say, I don't know, it's fun to be 30 and realize how much I've learned about myself over the last 15 years of being a pseudo adult and realize how much I've grown up and matured and how much I do know myself and know what I want.


Getting old is kind of fun. I don't 30 years old, but I'm like excited to keep learning about myself as I keep getting older.


OK, so Carla, as you move forward, I want you to look at that guy that you had the date with as this. You auditioned for a TV show and they called you back and they called you back and you got in front of network and then you didn't get the job. But you know what? You just got to audition again because you have to pay your mortgage.


OK, here's another way to look at your rejection.


Is God's protection like there is something that's meant for you that's meant to be you don't know what or why. I'm sure as an actress on a you have experience, things like this is my part. Like I have to get this part. I was made for this part and then it doesn't work. And can you ever find the sort of serendipity and like, oh, well, if that happened, I never would have gotten this thing I was actually meant for.


I mean, I always get emotionally invested in anything, no matter how shitty the projects, but the roles that have felt like Cinderella shoe I've gotten. So maybe there's an appropriate comparison with the relationship to it is a fit. It really, truly goes both ways. And that kind of helps soften the sting of rejection the other times because it probably is about me.


But I'm good friends, right? Like if it's not a good match, then, yeah, that's how I feel about the situation. Like anyone that wants to take themselves out of the running should do that. One of them would like me to come up the line. Right.


Carla, did we give you some hope for the future? Some like food for thought, although it sounded like we didn't need to. It sounded like you are a pretty optimistic person. Yeah, for sure.


No, it's just helpful to hear someone else affirm my take on the situation because I feel like I kind of exist in a vacuum right now. I go living by myself with my dog. So just like being able to speak to you all about what's going on and get some insight on how the fuck you even date in a pandemic, let alone for the first time when you're thirty. Rachel, I'm glad to hear that you and I are in a similar situation and I have full faith that you'll make it work.


And no matter what, I'm going to have fun. I so feel you, though, on the social rustiness. We've been in this weird thing for a year. We're now we're sort of getting used to talking and seeing ourselves back with all this like zoo meetings. So, Kalila, I can't thank you enough, though. Your story is interesting.


Yeah, you got it. Yeah. I'm going to make a list and try to metaphysician. Yes.


Do that. Do that for me. Oh, thanks for taking the time, y'all. Thank you so much for being so open and for talking with us for sure. All right. Bye bye.


All right. Bye bye. Rachel, thank you again. This was fantastic. You're amazing. I'm glad it could be helpful. Have a wonderful day by Rachel. Bye.