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Unqualified would like to thank our presenting sponsor, Macy's, for over 160 years, Macy's has been known for their quality products, great prices and trusted service with curated fashion for the entire family and gifts for every important occasion. Macy's is your one stop shop. Go to Macy's dotcom today for all of your home and fashion needs. Hey, everyone, today's guest is actor, comedian, writer, producer and director Seth Rogen. There's not much I can tell you about Seth that you don't already know.

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He really makes me laugh. I'm also excited to have Dan Savage of Savage Love cast back this week to provide some more qualified insight as we do our best to answer your questions. I really hope you enjoy the episode.

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Ladies and gentlemen, you were listening to Unqualified with your host unifiers. He said, oh, God, you're so sweet to do this, how are you doing? I'm OK. How are you doing? I'm all right. Do you know what I did? I was going to ask you a bunch of other leading more interesting questions, but my relationship with social media is pretty terrible. So I just immediately looked at your Instagram page and I liked a couple things like.

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Perfect. Good. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Doing my job. So pottery.

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Ha ha canids. It's good. Thank you. I'm getting better. Getting better. Were you already good at it? No.

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I started like a year and a half ago, maybe almost two years ago. I was maybe the first time I tried it. I guess so yeah. I've gotten better in that time for sure. Much better said.

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I went through like a period in college where I went to raves. Oh yeah.

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I'm coming back to pottery. Good. Yeah. And I don't know how to dance.

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So being on ecstasy during that time, my whole thing was like I'm just going to make pots. Yeah.

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Oh. Like I'm going to pop. And that is how like people who can't dance, that is a good introduction to dancing is emulate an activity that maybe you've seen others do like baking a cake.

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I remember that was a joke Michael Sarah used to do where like you do a dance for like he put it, he he made a cake, put it in the oven, set a timer, dance for ten minutes and then you think would be done and he'd take it out. A great joke. Yeah. I would hope that people like would come up to me and be like, what are you doing.

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Like my bass. Amazing man.

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But nobody I don't think anybody did that. It was unidentifiable. Yeah. That's my dancing skill. So I haven't seen your movie. The trailer looks so fucking good.

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Thank you. I think it's it's super strange and I think I think good.

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Would you accept a compliment of that? Your comedy has always been incredibly progressive. Thank you. In terms of like oddness.

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Yes, I would say I would take that. Yeah. I think at times we're kind of seeing almost like how how how challenging can we make this versus how like weird of an idea.

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Can we bring back to a place where, like lands with people emotionally is a challenge that we like to undertake? Definitely, yeah.

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Seth, did you ever have, like, early pitches that were just too odd? We still do.

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When I was pitching the house bunny. Yeah. Originally my vision for the character was that she was like a meth addict.

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They didn't like that. Happy Madison wasn't into that. Right.

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You know, eventually she was like, I'm not going to give another blowjob.

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And I had this vision that she would go back to like her small southern town and with an abusive father or something.

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And you can make a really hard hitting sequel to House Party. That would be pretty. A real total shift from the first one.

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No one's ever made a sequel with, like, really real fallout from, like a comedy.

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So. Right. We should work on that. It like that would be great.

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OK, so I wanted to ask you a series of life questions. Sure. Great. OK, on what occasion do you lie?

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Oh, I don't feel a lot of obligation to tell the truth to like the press. Like usually I'm just selling a movie like I am.

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I do not like to lie about the quality of my films. I in general try to make movies that I can go promote with honesty and I try to make films that I really like for that reason. But aside from that, I do not feel a large obligation to be honest, like with my personal life and things like that, to like the press basically.

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So like if you're involved in a project that you believe could be, you know, could have been better, it's hard. I mean, I'm speaking, of course, through myself. Yeah. Yeah. Those moments where it's like, oh, you know, it's it has something for everybody. Yes.

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I can definitely tell you the movie does not. As for everybody. Yes, I try to make and it's because early on I what I did find myself promoting films that I really didn't like that much and I hated it.

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And I then started like reverse engineering, a lot of choices I was making just so I wouldn't have to do that.

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And it doesn't always mean like the movies are getting fantastic reviews and doing well, but if I genuinely like them and think they're good, it makes my life so much easier.

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You know, I was promoting Scary Movie three, I think I don't know one of those, but I was on the. View. Yeah, at the same time, Lost in translation was out, and I wasn't doing any press for that because have a small role in that movie. Yeah, but a couple of journalists would bring it up or whatever. And so I told the like the interviewing producer, well, you know, I do I do movies like Lost in Translation so I can do my passion projects like Scary Movie and Thank You.

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Say it's a great line. Did they tell you to stop saying that?

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Well, on The View, one of the hosts said so I read that you do that.

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You do movies like Lost in Translation so you can do your passion projects like Scary Movie. What do you mean by that? I was so new.

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And it's also weird when you find yourself confronted with like, oh, I have to explain the concept of comedy to someone now, which is a weird thing to have to be doing on television.

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Like like you like conceptually there are things called jokes or you. I just like this and I find myself in that position a lot of times and it's a bummer of a place to be. Yeah. Oh God.

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Yeah.

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The marketing people got all mad at me because I ended up saying something like, well, you know, I'm really lucky to be a part of movies that are well reviewed and then movies that are like, truly, that's where I went.

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Like, I have such versatile options as a performer.

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It's nice bouncing between things. People like people don't like Gina Hall sitting next to me.

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I remember her just like staring at the ground. Oh, God, what's happening? What has happened to you?

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All right. To the press. To the press. Which talent would you most like to have?

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I wish I could sing because I cannot sing at all like I can maybe, you know, I can fake my way through it for a bar or two, but I wish I was a good singer. That would be nice.

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Do you think that Lauren, your wife would appreciate that? Yes. And Lauren also wishes she could sing. And we share in common the desire to sing better than we can.

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Well, maybe after pottery, this is baby. This is the goal. Maybe as we do pottery, we can learn to sing together.

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Which historical figure do you most identify with? Oh, man, I don't know.

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Is Albert Brooks a historical figure? Yeah. Yeah, sure. That Albert Brooks. I don't think he would like that. But will you expand on that?

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I don't know. I just I've always been a big fan of his and I he he writes the acts he directs and he's incredibly Jewish. So those are all reasons that I relate heavily to.

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Albert Brooks, what's your favorite Albert Brooks movie then? Oh, defending your life probably so great. I also like Lost in America. That's also a great movie. I mean, all his movies, I think I like real people, but those two specifically are fantastic.

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The nest egg, right? The nest egg. You can't say nest egg. That's one of the greatest monologues in comedy.

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And Julie Haggerty's, incredible. I a huge geography fan. She's so great. She's so great.

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So funny. Yeah. All right. What is the best and or worst advice you've ever been given?

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I think it speaks to the first one is be honest. That can be very good advice and also very bad advice depending on the situation.

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Have you been told to, like, just be yourself? I have. And I've also been told that I am not representing who I truly am very well.

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And so I've been told. Yeah, like I've been told both those things.

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Yeah. Can you say an example from the latter.

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Yeah, for sure. I've said things Lauren has told me after hearing things. I've jokes, I've made things like that. She's just like that's not who you are.

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That's, that is like a dumber, more shocking version of who you are, which I appreciate, which is sound advice.

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I can only someone you love and who loves you can say that everything.

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So. Yes. And have me agree with it honestly. Yeah. Do you have a favorite book or author? I like Douglas Adams and I think like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy book, the first one, especially where some of my favorite books growing up were you I'm not very familiar with Douglas Adams.

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Is that you assume sci fi writer?

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Yeah, he's like a sci fi. Like a comedic sci fi, I would say.

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Are you a big sci fi fan? Um, I'm not a huge sci fi. I find my dad is like a giant sci fi fan, so I sci fi fan is a fun thing to say, but yeah, there's two major awards for sci fi books, the Neptune and something else.

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And there's like one hundred books that have won both those awards throughout history. And my dad has made it his mission to read all those books. He's a huge science fiction fan yet. So I grew up watching a lot of science fiction stuff.

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I love the memory of your parents. I know we've talked about this before of your parents onset of observe and report.

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Yeah, I think they've been to every set I've ever been to. They reminded me so much of my parents. I remember like after takes like going back behind the monitors or whatever. And your parents just being like, oh my gosh, that was so good.

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That was good.

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That was very, very supportive. And it would be like two, 30 in the morning at that empty mall in Albuquerque. And they're just like, oh, I like, honey, do you want some hummus? You need to eat.

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Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's very true. My mom has a phobia of starving to death, so she always has a lot of snacks on her person and is always offering snacks to people because she projects her phobia onto others.

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But yeah, I think my parents have been to every movie that I've ever I've ever been on. Like I think they've come visited every time I've I've filmed something which is wonderful. I love to have them.

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I love your parents so much.

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Yeah, they're great because I think, you know, on a movie set to everyone's so self-involved because they have to be everyone's doing their job or whatever. So you don't oftentimes get any feedback?

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Yeah, very much.

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Normally I wouldn't go behind the monitors for any reason, but when your parents were there on set, I totally gravitated towards them because they would just be like, oh, that was so funny.

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Would they give good feedback? Even me? I love it.

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If they didn't think so, they wouldn't say it. I love that.

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OK, what's the quality you just like in yourself, man? Quite a few, I don't think I I'm just going through like a logical thing.

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I'm seeing just flashes of thousands of my own personality traits are coming before my eyes right now.

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I feel like I project negative outcomes before they occur. And I do think that that is something that has probably been helpful to me at times creatively.

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But it's not a good trait to have in my day to day life, you know what I mean?

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I think it's something I developed through being very critical of my work and really trying to punch holes and things that I was doing and really trying to project. OK, what is the worst thing someone could say about this? So how do I fix that? How do I make this as good as it can be in my head? And then that trait has spun out into like every element of my life, and I just project the worst possible outcomes for a lot of things.

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All right. What would you consider your greatest achievement, man?

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I don't know. Probably my marriage in relationship with my wife. Honestly, it's one of my longest lasting achievements.

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And I'd say I'm like a day to day basis. It is. You know, it is the thing that, like, I get like the most regular happiness and gratification from is just, you know, being in a very good relationship with my wife, who I love and respect very much and who generally loves and respects me back.

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And so and it's to a lesser degree, my partnership with Evan is also a very I think like those long lasting partnerships and relationships are things that I like, I view as being very special elements of my life.

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You know, I'm with you very much so because I am notorious for neglecting relationships.

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I am as well. So there's there's a few. So the ones that I've kept, I'm very proud of.

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But I adore Lauren.

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So you guys met at L said yeah. Her friend was dating a friend of mine and we met at a birthday party at El-Sayed. Yeah.

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How'd that go. Like I mean I guess you guys it was good. It was Jenny Goodwin and Whitney Cummings's joint birthday party.

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It was around sixteen years ago, maybe fifteen and a half years ago, something like that. And it was great.

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There was another guy she had just been on a date with at the party who she was mostly talking about. And what's funny in retrospect is at the party, I was there with my friend Will Reiser, who was dating Lauren's friend, who had recently been diagnosed with cancer.

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And I, as a joke, kept kind of nudging him to write a movie that night.

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And in my head, I was like, oh, I'll be like the funny friend of the guy with cancer who's kind of using the cancer to pick up girls, which I was literally doing that night.

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And not only was it very endearing and I started dating Lauren Will Reiser wrote the movie and it became 50/50.

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Yeah, that's amazing. And you guys have been married for how long? We've been married. I adore you. I adore you. I hear you are the best. I have no sense of time either.

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How can you when you live in Los Angeles and it's sunny every day?

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I do have no sense of time whatsoever. We've been married for nine years.

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OK, if you were forced to travel or had the choice of traveling between train or boat, let's say long distance. Yeah, I'll start there and then I've got a couple of follow ups. I'd go train.

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I don't know if I would do well on a long term boat excursion. I think I get seasick.

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So on a scale of one to ten, let's say you weren't a movie star and it's impossible for me to conceive of that reality, even even for a moment.

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I'm sorry.

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OK, I'll try.

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See, your trajectory was completely different. You were hardcore into mountain biking and let's say you operated bike tours in Cabo San Lucas and you met, like, these awesome people.

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Maybe you were kind of crushing on a girl or whatever. And they are all heading out to the Markus's. Yeah, sounds fun. Let's say like a sixty eight foot sailboat and yeah. She wants you to go. It's going to be like a two month journey. Whoa. I mean I think it'll take like a month to get there. They think. Do they have weed.

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Yeah they have a lot of weed. Then I would go. You would go then.

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Yes but how would you do as like a team member on the boat?

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I would do my best. I would I would probably be rendered pretty useless because like I there's a real danger.

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I would be vomiting the entire time, like with the weed. Maybe that's the process. Maybe it would help. Maybe I'd get used to it. Maybe I'd get my sea legs.

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I would try. How. How? Phil, would you be like would you see yourself sort of as the cook or are you, like, operating the main set? I know nothing about this stuff. Would I be hoisting the million man?

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I could be a cook type person, I think.

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Yeah, that would be I, I could chop.

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Yeah, I could I could provide food for the crew I think would be my role of the ship or swap the deck. I've always wanted to swap things.

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So you're not exactly, you know, exactly MVP, but you're somewhere in there.

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I'm pulling my own weight but I'm not making life that much easier for everybody.

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I don't know. You could be, you know, with your singing and feel that you're about exactly with my magic sensibility that this version of me has.

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Do you play any instruments? No. I played the saxophone when I was very young, but I, I have not picked one up since I was 11 years old. That's a rad visual. Not that cool an instrument for an 11 year old to play. I don't know.

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I could play a love me tender by a listener, remember? I play that. That was my head.

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OK, we're going to get on to deal breakers. Cool. And this is a special deal breakers tailored for you. Normally we do dating ones. But this is. Would you would you smoke it? Would I smoke it? I like OK, it's 4:00 a.m. and you're driving home from set in Shreveport. Yes. When a police officer pulls you over, he tells you he tells you that he's a big fan and then he submits you to a sobriety test.

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Yeah. After you passed the test, he asks you if you want to smoke some of his moonshine weed.

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Would you do it?

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No.

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And I know I wouldn't because I was once faced with a very similar situation in New Mexico where I was shooting in a very small town called Estancia, I believe, on the outskirts of New Mexico.

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And a cop asked me, he came up to me, showed me a picture of like a bunch of weed plants, and he's like, I'm grown these in my basement, produced a joint. I was like, do you want to smoke this joint with me?

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And I it was one of those internal monologues where I was like, what had the story of smoking weed with a cop, I guess is what baby I would like to have.

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On the other hand, is this like the most simple sting operation in history that I'm about to be like the dumbest motherfucker to ever get arrested on the planet? And so I said no. So I did not do that. But I was a cop has asked me to smoke weed with him before.

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Yes. All right. OK. I think more than once that was like the first time I think it's happened.

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I bet that, you know, OK, here we go. Michelle Obama asks you to be on her new podcast. Yeah. Before the interview, you run into Barack on the back porch getting high. Yeah. He begs you not to tell Michelle. He says she hates marijuana and she can always tell when he's high and she can always tell when he's lying. And then he offers you a hit. Would you smoke it?

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Of course. Yes. A thousand percent.

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OK, but then. Sure, but then what if Michelle, like, comes out on the back porch and like, do you want to be in the middle of there?

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I'd say it's a risk reward thing.

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I would risk putting myself in the middle of that for the rewards to be. That's a reasonable tradeoff.

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There is something kind of great when you're in the middle of a couple fight and you kind of know that you can't be blamed for anything. Oh, yeah, that's happened to me a lot of times.

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So luckily, I have a lot of friends who are very comfortable arguing in front of me as well. So that's very lovely.

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OK, while doing some light renovation on your home, you discover a brown paper bag in the bathroom wall in black handwriting.

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On the front, it says, don't smoke until Scott gets back. Oh, no, you open it up and find two joints. Would you smoke it? No, I'd put them back in the wall, what I would respect that. That's coming from a man who has a lot of access to weed. Yeah, even if I didn't, I would still I mean, there's two joints. Is it worth angering someone who took the time to do that?

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You probably want to stay on their good side if they have the the complicated foresight to put weed at a wall with adults.

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I would say, like in the off chance Scott comes back, it's probably not worth pissing off for two JOIDES.

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He put a lot of work into this, says my partner Michael. And I had like a little disagreement, not a disagreement by any, but I wanted the note to say, don't smoke until Scott gets back from Nam. Oh, wow.

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I still might do it because I don't know if he means the war or just the country.

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All right. He could just be like backpacking, you know, not in Vietnam, but your buddies are like, hey, yeah, I'm I'm thinking, this is great.

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I'm going to go backpacking around Nam.

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Evan did. Yeah, but you say Vietnam, don't you see, it would be an entree if he had ordered a phrase.

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I agree.

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That's so weird. It's a weird way to abbreviated it. Peace time. Yes, I agree with. All right.

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All right. All right. So it's going back in the wall. Going back on the wall. All right. You're stranded on the surface of Mars after a mission gone wrong. There's the tiniest hope of rescue, but the odds are against you. The only thing you have left is a little bit of weed and some lab equipment to fashion a pull out of. But, you know, if you strike it up and smoke it, it's going to deplete your remaining oxygen.

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Would you smoke it? This is like my version of The Martian, I don't know, I guess live by the sword, die by the sword is partially where it goes. So I think eventually I may be eventually it depends how bleak it looked, I would say, but maybe eventually.

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Well, maybe there's a way you know, we didn't even think about the idea that perhaps you could use it as edibles. Yeah, maybe I could eat it. I mean, if you're on Mars, you have to have some sense of ingenuity. Yeah.

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That Matt Damon movie made, which made that seem very clear. Yeah, I feel like I could reduce it. I could vape it or something like that. Maybe I could use.

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Yeah, there must be some way to both get high and live on Mars. There must be some way.

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Of course there is a way where there's a will. There's a way. OK, all right.

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So let's say you're in Pittsburgh shooting American pickle. You're taking a walk in the park when a man stumbles out of the bushes, he tells you he has time traveled from the 1960s and holds out a bag of weed. Kind of like this.

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Yeah, because the 60s, it's a giant bag of really weak.

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We totally inese offering it to you. And he wants you to join him. Would you join him? Would you smoke it with him.

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Yeah, I might. Just just in case.

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Just in case it was real.

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I have said yes to smoking weed with truly debatable, you know, and truly debatable situations like I've been out and people have been like, do you want to hit on this joint? And I've said, yes. And even afterwards, I'm like, I can't believe I did that.

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That was probably. But yeah, my instinct is to do it.

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Yeah. I went through this stage of my life where if I was shooting on location, I truly viewed it with a study abroad. Carelessness.

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Yeah, I think I feel some sort of obligation.

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I always think back. It's such a weird story.

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We were testing the movie Pineapple Express, like doing test screenings of it and at that same time Superbad was in theaters.

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So I was in like Thousand Oaks for a test screening of Pineapple Express.

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And I was walking to the theater and in like I was walking through one of these outdoor malls and in like a little like alleyway behind the mall, kind of where three teenagers smoking or it was one teenager who was carrying a joint walking like down.

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And he and he stopped me. And he's like, You're Seth Rogen. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, what are you doing here? I'm here to screen a movie. And he's like, Oh, my friends are right around that corner. And we're about to go see Superbad for the first time and we're about to smoke this joint. Will you come smoke it with us?

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And I was like, I wish honestly I would, but I can't. I just got to go. I'm late for this thing. And I walked away and I just remember it.

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It's tattooed on my brain this side of this fifteen year old kid holding a joint watching me walk away.

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And he just screamed, but no one's going to believe me. And and I.

[00:29:59]

And I. And I. And I. And I just walked away like and ever since then I was like, I owe it to these.

[00:30:07]

You owe it to the children to kind of the. Yeah, I owe it to the kids.

[00:30:15]

I think of that kid.

[00:30:16]

That's who I think I was that I was in Louisiana, in New Orleans and I was at a grocery store.

[00:30:24]

And these little girls came up to me and they were like, were you in the hot chick? And I said, Yeah. And I said, Hey, you guys, I have your swimsuits on. What are you guys doing today? And they were like, we're going over to Sarah's house. It's her birthday. And one kid was like, do you want to come? And I said, Yeah, yeah. So I went back to my hotel.

[00:30:46]

I took a cab back to the hotel, and I went and hung out with these 12 year olds all afternoon until their mom had to kick me out.

[00:30:57]

And I bet it was fun.

[00:30:58]

It was great. They worshipped me. They were like, do you know Justin Timberlake? Aha. I sure do. Yeah.

[00:31:05]

Yeah.

[00:31:05]

I once I found myself not that long ago at like a frat house in Vermont, rolling like a giant cross joint with like 30, you know, 19, 20 year olds crammed into a living room. And yeah, it was it was a hilarious, wonderful time.

[00:31:25]

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:27]

No, I don't know what it says about the it's either sense of adventure and a compliment that I like to tell that story about myself or could be very much perceived as like a weird desperation for attention and adoration, like why do they have to be mutually.

[00:31:49]

What's it like to I don't know if you've had to answer a lot of these kinds of questions, but to play against yourself, to play partners with yourself in American pickle.

[00:31:59]

Have you ever done anything like now? Well, once I did a short film. Yeah.

[00:32:03]

I really enjoyed it honestly. Like, it was an interesting challenge.

[00:32:07]

But, you know, I like acting, but it's honestly like just being an actor. And a film to me is like, you know, you're working.

[00:32:17]

It's kind of like not it can be a boring job, honestly, you know, like and that, I think, is why I like to take on other things to be the writer as well, or the director as well or something. But on this, I was not the right or the director. I was the actor. And the added challenge and technical aspect of playing two roles made it like incredibly engaging for me. And it's added an element that I really liked sinking my teeth into.

[00:32:45]

And it was hard, but it was also felt like we were doing like a magic trick. And like when it worked, it was like you can kind of see in the moment if it worked or not. And it was really like rewarding to be able to see, like, oh, we did it like the trick, the trick was sold, you know, and I really enjoyed that. Yeah.

[00:33:00]

So would you do me a big favor? Do you mind grabbing something weird out of your house or in your room or anything? And you can go whatever. That's all I'm leaving at us. Yeah, I hear.

[00:33:16]

Yeah. What's that. I don't know.

[00:33:19]

This weird thing where our listeners are going to love this segment. It's a weird little. Exactly. This is perfect for a podcast. Yeah. I won't describe it but.

[00:33:29]

But you can attest to the fact that it is in fact you're right.

[00:33:36]

This is the perfect like the perfect vodka's segment.

[00:33:44]

Yeah. OK, here I'm doing it.

[00:33:46]

Let's do it right now. It's happening. You could hear it.

[00:33:53]

What is this thing?

[00:33:56]

I don't even know if I'm creative enough to describe it in an interesting way.

[00:34:02]

I would describe it as two wooden feet and then a spring and then a little wooden head. So it's wood. It's like a wooden bobble head. It's like a wooden bobblehead. Kind of. Yeah. Yes, like a wooden bobblehead. Does it have sentimental value?

[00:34:15]

I think Lauren gave it to me. Oh, it's from Denmark.

[00:34:20]

But Lauren's never been to Denmark, so I don't know, maybe she ordered it from a website from Denmark.

[00:34:27]

So, yeah, sentimental about it has an inexplicable joy. I can kind of. It does. It's not unfriendly.

[00:34:35]

I defy someone to just like a bobblehead type thing. Yeah. Conceptually, bobbleheads are sound.

[00:34:44]

So there you go. All right.

[00:34:46]

Here's some easy ones. What's your favorite ice cream flavor?

[00:34:49]

I think of cookies and cream. All right. With Oreo cookies, hopefully ideally aiming for Oreo cookies, the big chunks.

[00:34:58]

Yeah, Briar's has a good version of that.

[00:35:00]

What was your favorite toy as a child, man? I was really into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and GI Joe, who were probably my favorite toys.

[00:35:08]

Now, when boys play with toys. Yes. Look, when you're playing with your G.I. Joes or Ninja Turtle, is it just sort of smashing them together?

[00:35:16]

No, I think mine were a little more elaborately plotted out, um, at times. Yeah, I think it was not just mashing together. I think every kid plays differently, though.

[00:35:26]

I remember playing with these kids would just smash their shit together and be like, I don't think we can play.

[00:35:31]

I like slightly more nuanced arcs with my play, Time said. What was your first boss like? My first job I ever actually had. I was paid to write jokes for a Moyal who's a guy who does circumcisions for Jews.

[00:35:50]

They're supposed to do a stand up routine. No, that was my thought as well. And I think I was fourteen or fifteen and I was doing stand up comedy. And a Moyal approached me after a show and asked if I would write jokes for him for his ceremony, to which I responded, You want jokes?

[00:36:06]

I've never I had never been to a circumcision, but I was like, you want jokes for this?

[00:36:09]

And he did. So he paid me to write jokes for him.

[00:36:14]

Seth, please tell me you remember a couple of them. I do. You do. Can you tell us? Well, what's funny is I remember none of them, and then my mom ran into the guy recently, she went to a wedding and they were like seated next to each other, coincidentally. And he's still a boil in Vancouver. There's not very many because there's not a ton of juice there. So he is still circumcising children and he is still telling some of the jokes.

[00:36:40]

And so he had them still and sent them to my mother, who sent them to me. Basically, there was one about like like this kid's going to be the only kid in preschool who can say he survived a knife fight.

[00:36:50]

That was one of this. Like it was they were silly jokes like that.

[00:36:55]

And I remember like I question the motive behind it, but he claimed that it was like a good icebreaker to have a few jokes because everyone's nervous. God, I love that.

[00:37:04]

That's great. That's great. That's the best answer to that question. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What's your favorite rainy day movie?

[00:37:12]

Oh, man. What do I find myself watching? A lot of things like defending your life. I watched that movie pretty regularly. It's a comforting film. I find The Big Lebowski, I also think is a comforting film, those types of movies.

[00:37:25]

What do you think makes a comforting movie? I think a movie that is not too dark does not have themes that are too personally triggering for the viewer. I think that's what I find it comforting movie.

[00:37:40]

And I in general, I'm not saying those are two very good movies, but I in general like to watch bad movies also. I think because I make movies and when I watch good movies, sometimes it makes me not relaxed. It makes me like like go into a very like workI type mind state where I'm really analyzing what's so good about it and why I suck so bad. And then sometimes when I just watch a bad movie, I'm like, it truly allows me to kind of unplug and relax, you know.

[00:38:08]

So what's your favorite bad movie I am always listening to? How did this get made, Paul? In June and Jason's podcast. And I listen and I try to watch a lot of the movies that they watch.

[00:38:18]

So I just watch Money Plain the other day because that was the latest episode of theirs, which is a truly not very good movie.

[00:38:25]

Oh, my son, who's he's about to turn eight. He got me into the MEG.

[00:38:32]

That is a good, bad movie. Deep Blue Sea is probably one of the best bad movies. Incredible love, Deep Blue Sea.

[00:38:38]

And what's funny is Evan, my partner truly loves that movie and went on, how did this get me to defend it and genuinely like it, refused to speak about it poorly.

[00:38:52]

All right.

[00:38:53]

So remember I asked you what's a trait that you disliked in yourself? What's a trait you dislike in others?

[00:38:59]

Oh, man, so many.

[00:39:03]

I mean, I'm trying to think of, like, an overarching trait I dislike in others.

[00:39:09]

There's a lot of people who seem to like truly, especially now like be proud of their ignorance.

[00:39:15]

I think that is a trait I dislike.

[00:39:19]

And I think that's different from acknowledging that you don't know things.

[00:39:23]

It is not knowing things and pretending you do like. I'm someone who is always acknowledging how little I know and how, you know, I dropped out of high school. I am not an incredibly well educated person overall, you know, and I am someone who's always trying to recalibrate their position on things. And I'm always open to changing my stance on things. And I think I'm annoyed by people who know as little as I do, which is a lot of people.

[00:39:49]

But they act as though they really know a lot and a lot of people do that, you know, and I think as you get older, the more you realize no one knows anything.

[00:39:56]

I completely agree with you. But are we able to say that from a distance? A bit, because part of as I've gotten older or whatever it is, it's much easier for me to say I don't know what that means for sure.

[00:40:10]

Well, I'm not going to say there's two types of people, but there are of the many types of people, two types are those who get older and look around and see that the people you interact with as a kid, you were like, oh, these people must be smart and know things.

[00:40:25]

You get older and you're like, oh, they are just pretending like and they don't know anything. And what they've learned is how to speak in a way that it seems like they know what they're talking about, but they really don't like.

[00:40:33]

That's their skill, you know, and at the same time, there are people who actually do know a lot of things about certain things. And there are certain people in a lot of things about a lot of things. But I'm sure those same people would acknowledge that there are other things that they don't know anything about, you know, and then there are some people who, the older they get, the more they act like they know everything about everything and refuse to acknowledge that there is anything that they don't know about and take pride in that position.

[00:40:58]

And I think, again, as I get older, I think those people are more and more obnoxious.

[00:41:05]

I like to think that my cement is still sort of liquid.

[00:41:09]

Yeah, it could harden, but it's still slightly malleable.

[00:41:15]

Yeah, I think, I think my my cement is quite malleable. Yeah. OK, how would you like to die Sath old and then suddenly old and suddenly something weird, just like I'm feeling great and old and then I die one day.

[00:41:33]

I don't want to I don't want to slow and steady decline.

[00:41:36]

I want everything to be really, really good. And then. And then just out. Yeah.

[00:41:40]

Yeah, exactly. Well, we can push you overboard on your dream voyage to the moon.

[00:41:47]

When I'm one hundred and twenty you can push me off the boat. He was an OK cook. Yeah exactly. We ate them and I want to be eaten.

[00:42:00]

Hey, before I let you go, set up in one word, how would you like to be remembered? Oh, man, I don't know. I know fondly.

[00:42:13]

That's good. I like that. Yeah, well, yeah. All right. So, Lauren, note that.

[00:42:22]

That's exactly what we use a lot of fondly at the eulogy.

[00:42:27]

Yeah.

[00:42:28]

Here lies Seth Rogen with fond memories, with fond memories. Do you have a favorite joke?

[00:42:41]

I remember Paul Rudd once told me a wonderful joke of what's the last thing you want to hear when you're giving Willie Nelson a blowjob? I'm not Willie Nelson, but the solid jokes.

[00:42:59]

It's all a joke. We did it.

[00:43:03]

You let our audience know when we can see an American pickle. August 6th, August 3rd, August 6th on HBO.

[00:43:09]

Max says, I can't thank you enough for doing this. My pleasure. It's always good to see you. It's great to see you, actually. All right. Bye, sir.

[00:43:18]

Bye. Unqualified would like to think our presenting sponsor, Macy's, for their efforts to help those in need with their Meals on Wheels covid-19 relief fund, if you would like to show your support, a link can be found on the Macy's website for more than one hundred and sixty years. Macy's has been there for you. Last year alone, Macy's donated nearly 43 million dollars to a variety of causes, from hunger relief and disaster support to clothing donations and wish granting.

[00:43:48]

Please join them in their efforts to provide help to those who need it. The kids are off to college, so make sure they have everything they need to make their space feel homey, but also as unique as they are, get bedding, bath stuff and kitchen supplies for all that late night snack and of course, and all other dorm essentials. So get ready for move day. And don't forget to check out their decorative pillows, accent, rugs and lamps.

[00:44:14]

To find all of your summer fashion and home needs. Visit Macy's dotcom unqualified. You'll also find items hand-picked by me and put on special discount for unqualified listeners. Again, that's Macy's dotcom slash unqualified. This episode of Unqualified is brought to you in part by Albats. Tree dashers are all birds new high performance running shoe. But I wear mine pretty much all the time, even on days when I have no intention of running like today and tomorrow and probably the day after that.

[00:44:48]

I just love how comfortable they are and I love how they look. I also really love all birds mission, which is to leave the planet in better shape than they found it. The Tree Dasher is a result of that dedication. It's the first of its kind, a high level performance running shoe made from natural, sustainable materials like eucalyptus fibre, merino, wool, sugarcane and natural rubber. The result is a shoe that's not only environmentally conscious, but also lightweight, flexible and like I said, extremely comfortable.

[00:45:18]

One thing that these past months have made clear is that we need to protect each other and the things that we care about, including the planet that we all share in the race to defeat climate change. If nature wins, we all win with the new all birds tree dasher feel confident knowing that you can run hard and tread light on the planet. Find your pair at all birds dotcom today. Hey, everyone, Dan Savage is back to help me answer your questions, as I mentioned last week, I've been a fan of Dan since my days in Edmonds, Washington, where I used to read his column in The Stranger.

[00:46:02]

You can hear more from Dan on his podcast, Savage Love Cast. Hi, Dan. Hi, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Good, good, good. So we're going to call Chris. I know. Hey, Chris, how are you? I'm doing all right in these crazy times. Thanks for calling us. I'm here with Dan Savage because it an honor, dude.

[00:46:30]

Thank you so much for all that you have done for our community.

[00:46:33]

Oh, that's very sweet of you to say. OK, thank you. Thank you, Chris.

[00:46:37]

I don't know if you're going to be seeing them in a few minutes, man. Dan is like he's getting savvy. So, Chrisley, you tell us what's happening.

[00:46:48]

OK, so five years ago, my ex broke up with me and he broke up with me because I kept coming to him, telling him that I think he's still in love with his ex and whatnot. And, you know, we were together for five years.

[00:47:10]

So was he doing anything that made you believe you were still in love with his ex, or was it just insecurity on your part? Several things. He was distancing himself from me. One of the last times that we had intercourse, it seemed like someone had just left. You know what I'm saying? Mm hmm. Yeah. So I threatened to tell his mom, which is why he ended things. He felt very threatened by it. Threatened to tell his mom what my feelings on what's going on, I don't understand.

[00:47:42]

Tried to tell his mom that he was still in love with his ex or threaten to tell my mom he was gay or threatened to tell his mom that it was like, not great.

[00:47:49]

Well, the thing is, his ex was abusive to him and his mom knows that he stole he hurt him. He did lots of bad things to him and she didn't want anything to do with this guy. Mm hmm. So considering I felt like something was going on, I felt that I needed to tell her. So he ended up being less than a year after we broke up. He marries the guy, bam. Yeah. And in secrecy.

[00:48:19]

So the mom didn't know. The friends didn't know. And so two years after they got married, OK, so it's at least five years ago that you got broken up.

[00:48:28]

How is any of this as sad as it is your concern anymore?

[00:48:32]

It's hindering me from moving on. I think about him all the time. I blamed myself for years until we found out the truth. You know, I thought everything was my fault. I messed up something that I thought was great. And I date guys, but they last days, if not weeks, you know, it's it's just hard to move on. And a big part of it is that from what my friends are telling me, one of the problems is I'm still really close to his mom.

[00:49:05]

I don't have any parents there are upstairs, you know, and haven't. So she took on that role even while we were dating is when my mom passed away. So she took on that role and just became my parental figure and kind of hard to let go of her, considering we have so much love and now there's this bond of how we were both betrayed.

[00:49:34]

Well, Chris, you know how memory sharpens itself into positive experiences or very negative experiences. And it seems like if you think about him every day, you've highly romanticized the relationship and who he is. I really empathize with the relationship with the mom. I wish that wasn't a complicating factor because it sounds like you guys won't get back together. And it sounds like you have maybe latched on like in your loneliness, especially during this insane time to the idea of, you know, what could have been because it was quite a while ago.

[00:50:13]

Yeah, I truly believe that everyone needs to go through. It's horrible, but like a pretty solid breakup to be a full person and have their heart broken. I think that it's important for you to start to restructure what your relationship was. And it sounds like he was still in love with his ex. They have their own issues, but there's nothing that you can or should do about those things right now at all. Do you have, like, obsessive behaviors in terms of, I don't know, cyber stalking stuff?

[00:50:46]

Like, do you follow him on Facebook? Are you social media in him? I don't even know that world at all.

[00:50:54]

Like, lucky you.

[00:50:58]

I don't really until they just got a divorce last week. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's so OK.

[00:51:07]

Like you're you're not hung up on him. He sounds like a mess. Both of them are OK. So often when people say, I got dumped four years ago and I'm just like devastated, I'm still hung up on my ex. They're not really hung up. On their acts, they're hung up on or still in love with their own capacity to love someone, that it's the love that you felt for him, that you miss, but not him.

[00:51:27]

And by defining it for yourself as about him, it makes it harder for you to go find that with someone else because you're mixing those two things together that are two separate and distinct things. That was him. And there was your ability and capacity to love, not him someone.

[00:51:46]

And that survives with you that ability, that capacity, because you could love him that deeply.

[00:51:52]

And in that way, instead of telling yourself, I can never let anyone else like I loved him, you have to tell yourself I can love someone else. Like I loved him because I did that. That's not something he did to me. He's not a chemical agent that got stirred into a beaker.

[00:52:06]

And then there was this reaction that was something I had inside me and that I still have. He's gone. Don't link those two things, him and your capacity to love together, because that will make it impossible for you to love somebody else because you will defined your capacity to love as something reactive to this particular person. And it's not.

[00:52:28]

Chris, how frequently do you talk to his mom? I knew you're going to ask that it's bi weekly, maybe once a month.

[00:52:38]

When was the last time you talked to her and not about him?

[00:52:43]

It's most of the time now. Oh, good. OK, like ever since we found out that he wanted a divorce, which is last year and May, that was it. She told me to gain divorce. I'm like, good, you know, they're both messed up in the head.

[00:52:59]

And, you know, it's you're not hoping to get back together with him now that he's. No, no, no. Not at all. Good. Not at all. So you're not hung up on him. You're over him. Exactly.

[00:53:10]

It's a little hard to explain. It's not that I'm measuring up people to the love we had. It's more so that I don't want to get hurt again. I don't it's hard for me to trust people because it was a bunch of lies that I believed it was. I love you. I love you. I love you. And really, you didn't love me. Yeah, people lie. That happens. Yeah.

[00:53:38]

And I think, too, that when you have been scarred and hurt and betrayed, it is hard to open your heart up to people, especially people who know how to love you. Well, yeah, and in a happy way if you're kind of trained with chaos. So I think just make sure to remind yourself when you do meet people that aren't as dramatic as the relationship maybe that you were used to, because people can get very addicted to the drama.

[00:54:08]

So it makes it hard, I think, to just accept somebody else's love in a full, healthy way if they conflict drama with love or with passion.

[00:54:18]

Polder you. I am thirty four now.

[00:54:21]

OK, so you're in the relationship for five years, your relationship for five years and it ended five years ago. You were very young, right. This is your first serious long term relationship and it was a lot of drama. And so that's another thing you need to unlink, like love and drama. Like some people think that love is drama because they're relationships. You know, early formative ones were very chaotic or high conflict. And then they seek that out or they think that if there isn't that kind of drama and conflict or isn't passion and that's not true.

[00:54:48]

I do want to ask you something seemingly left field. How long was it between realizing you were gay and coming out of the closet?

[00:54:54]

Oh, I was I guess I fully came to terms with myself being gay at around twelve and came out around fifteen. Sixteen.

[00:55:06]

OK, so why do we come out despite the fear of parental rejection, the fear of violence, the fear of all the bullshit that we're going to encounter, why?

[00:55:15]

It's because I'm just answering your question.

[00:55:17]

It's because we we reach a point where the pain of being closeted, the pain of living that lie is greater. We know it's greater than any pain we could encounter coming out, that the pain of coming out seems like it can't be worse. Right. You're in a similar situation with this love thing where you're afraid to love again, because what if you get hurt again? Eventually you'll realize the pain of denying yourself love and the pain of being alone when you do not wish to be alone.

[00:55:44]

And some people do and they're not in pain. And we have to recognize that there are a lot of people out there who are happy and single. But the pain for you of being alone, the certain pain, the known pain, like the known pain you experience being closeted is greater. You know, it will be greater than whatever pain you might encounter, loving again and getting hurt again.

[00:56:00]

And you will get hurt again. You will. Yes, you will get your heart broken again.

[00:56:06]

You know, it's just like it's built in to the experience with news with Dan Savage, your new podcast. Dan, sorry, no know, but it's true. And there is comfort just. Like a scar that you get as you go through life, you're going to accumulate more of them to which you're signing up for, you're signing up to get your heart stomped on again. It's how, you know, you have one getting it stomped on every once in a while.

[00:56:30]

And you have to embrace it. You have to embrace that pain. And that's partly what you're signing up for, is the risk of that kind of pain. But it's the risk of that kind of pain as opposed to the pain you're in now, which is concrete and certain.

[00:56:46]

Dan, what do you think, though, about Chris's relationship with his mom?

[00:56:50]

I think he should continue to have that relationship with his mom if he decouples like you love from, you know, this guy and can like, you know, see these two things that I've kind of unpacked with you differently, then the relationship with the mom isn't a threat, isn't what keeps the love for this boy alive. Right.

[00:57:09]

This Mazzilli, I thought that the whole time, but friends and family were telling me you got to cut her.

[00:57:16]

I think the only thing that I would be concerned about is how much of your friendship with his mom revolves around concern for the ex, for the son? I think I would just be aware of that. And if you find yourself having these extensive conversations about him and his divorce and and the abusive ex that can, you know, intensify your what's already your your heartbreak and your obsession a bit with the breakup. So I would just clock that.

[00:57:48]

I agree and I completely agree. Like, if, you know, all you talk about with Mom is the ex and the drama and the divorce and your time with the ex, it can keep it alive for you. But if you have a relationship with her now, that's about other shit. And if you have an honest relationship with her now, where the ex comes up, you can say, I don't really want to talk about him. It like it just isn't good for me.

[00:58:10]

And she can respect that and change the fucking subject. Then you can continue to to be friends. I think it's smart. So many divorces and broken families and blended families. I just feel it's unnecessarily, you know, spreading the pain around you. And if you divorce somebody but they had a good relationship with your family, you can't demand that your family cut that person out of their lives. They had a connection that that they established for you and because of you and you're not in charge of their emotional lives and their connections and their friendships.

[00:58:39]

And they if they want to continue to see your ex, if the ex wasn't abusive, if there's a really good reason why your family needs to cut that person off in deference and loyalty to you, you know, if it was a low conflict relationship in an amicable divorce or an amicable parting, I think it's better for people to stay in each other's lives than to not. Yeah.

[00:58:55]

And, Chris, I wish I could tell you to, like, get back on that horse or whatever. It's such a crazy time right now, which is also something to be recognized.

[00:59:04]

I wish there was an easy fix to your sense of guardedness, but instead of telling yourself I can't do this because I'm afraid of getting hurt, tell yourself I am going to get hurt and I'm going to get hurt worse if I don't do this. Yeah.

[00:59:16]

Chris, thank you for sharing. Thank you so much, Honor.

[00:59:20]

And thank you, Dan. You're welcome. Good luck. Yeah. Thank you, guys. Bye, Chris. Bye bye. Dan, thank you so much for doing this. I think you are way better at it than I am. I really appreciate it. Any time by.