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If I leave like underwear, I left underwear out because I'm a little bit like a crotch up at the end of the night, like coming home from work, late crotch pants on the bathroom floor.


Yeah, kind of undressed. That's my vibe, guys. That's my vibe. I'm sorry. That is my vibe. Yeah.


And Gina takes those fuckin underwear. And I am your mother. I am your mother. What are you doing?


Hi, guys. Hi. I just want to thank everybody you at home, but mostly the two ladies joining me, Casey St. Onge and Tara Jackson. Hi. Because I texted them and I said, you have two choices here.


Either you can listen to me eat pizza in your ears or you can push at 15 minutes. And everybody said thumbs up to pushing it.


Plus you just got to eat your pizza without, like, worrying about it. You just have your pizza. It's Chelle. It's National Pizza, the National Pizza Day, which by the time you hear this, it won't be. But you know what the good thing is? You can still have pizza. It's literally like it is National Pizza Day.


But what day isn't?


I mean, what day is it? What day is it? Whatever the fuck you want. Day. That's right. Especially this last year, if you were thinking about doing something else, just eat whatever you want.


As my friend Amber pointed out, she was like, what happens when National Pizza Day falls also on Taco Tuesday? What do you do?


And I said, you know, do you know what?


Taco Pizza. Yeah, I'm a recipe guy. I love.


I wasn't even thinking taco pizza. I was like, you just go get tacos and pizza. And then that's that's the answer.


Yeah. However you want to. OK, guys, I just want to start off by saying. I had. The most delightful pap smear today, that's awesome. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. I feel really good about it. I took control of my reproductive lady health. I got it all checked out.


I missed it last year because covid Vibe's and I just didn't do it.


I was like, let's leave the the OBGYN to the people that need to be. Yeah, I just needed a Guyenne. And while getting your shit all swiped is important, very important. If you haven't done it, if you also missed because of covid let this me telling you that my pap smear was delightful today. Be your reminder that you could call tomorrow or today. I don't know what time you're listening to this. You could call right now, possibly pause, pause, press, pause, pause us and call your doctor and set a time for you to go in and get your cervix swabbed to make sure all that shit's good.


And talk to her or him. I have no judgments, I have. A male OBGYN in Los Angeles, I have a lady here, both delightful.


Anyway, she had a nice way about her swabbing. We had a good, delightful conversation about how to end the maternal mortality rate in this country. Oh, nice.


How to make it better. Oh, yes. We need to pass things. We need to do how we need to take how women need to rise up and take health care back into their own. No, not exactly in their own hands, but kind of like like we kind of do like it was also like very interesting. We just had a wonderful conversation.


Obviously this is the doctor that I got from my best friend Michelle in New York. And because obviously. But but just about how. Part of what has happened to women and women's health care in this country has been so perpetrated on us by men and by lawmakers. Yeah, and it extends to this very basic thing of that.


We have one of the worst maternal mortality rates now. Yeah. In the world really bad.


And especially among women of color, especially among black women.


Yeah, this is a fucking issue that all of us and especially like.


Listen me as like a lady, a white lady of privilege, that's why me like that's why the abortion work and stuff that I did, I felt so strongly about, because I'm like, OK, I'm in this position of privilege. What do I do with it?


OK, like, I got to point it to, you know, the grass roots organizations that are led by women of color that are like doing work on the ground.


And I have to like also use my own voice to other people that have privilege and power and money, money, money, and get them to fucking care about it.


But here's the deal. This is what I want to say. We should all fucking care about what has happened to women's health care, whether you're white and fucking privileged or whatever, because what has happened is that. Men in positions of power and fucking insurance companies have decided and hospitals, big hospitals have decided how you give birth and what makes the most sense and the insurance that is needed to make sure that their asses are covered for any losses, losses, losses.


Right. That's what they see it as. They don't see it as fucking people. They see it as fucking losses. And so how are they going to protect themselves? OK, so here's what you get. Let's use a friend of mine who lives in Arizona as an example.


When she got pregnant, she had to go per her insurance to this office for OBGYN ends and there were eight to ten, I believe OBGYN ends on rotation.


My friend never saw the same fucking doctor twice. Right the day she went into labor, the doctor that walked into the room, she had never fucking met. Do you know what that does to a woman? Well, what it does is that they're not looking at you a as a fucking person that they know. So when they look at you, they're not like, hey Sentara normally like your puffier this week than you were last week. Let's make sure that your sodium levels are correct.


They don't know you, so they don't know what your body is doing. They have made women's health care. Like, affordable for them, for the men in charge who are paying the fucking bills at the expense of women and babies in this fucking country, and I fucking had it. And until we all of us are like, it's enough, we're not dealing with this shit anymore, it's going to continue. So I'm saying to you, we all need to do that.


It's like a factory. If if for anyone that has not given birth, I mean, like as I remember it, I just had you know, I was well insured. I was lucky. I had a job and I had insurance through my union.


But I had to be on the phone with the insurance company daily, daily, just disputing something that my doctor said was necessary. And then they're like, no, that ultrasound wasn't necessary. And I'm like, I don't know, am I? What am I supposed to do? Like karate chop my doctor when they try to give me an ultrasound that they're saying that I need, I mean, what do I do? And, you know, same thing.


Like you go to the hospital. I was sent right from the doctor's office to because I had that thing where I was rotating through doctors. And one doctor was like, you know, it's getting very close. So when you should have the baby, if you don't go into labor by next week, we should induce you. And I was like, OK, so I came for my next week appointment and I had another doctor in the practice because that's how they work it.


And I was like last week the doctor said I should be induced by this week if I didn't go into labor this week. And that doctor was like, no, I think it's OK. I think you can go one more week. And I was like, OK, so I went home and had another doctor the next week. And that doctor was like, you can go another week.


And then I came back to my original doctor and they were like, Why the fuck haven't you had this baby? I said, like three weeks ago, you know?


So I went right to the hospital to have that baby. Like, I didn't even get to go home and get my bag. She sent me right to the hospital.


OK, and thank God your baby didn't have issues. Did you die in your fucking womb and you didn't die. And there, by the fucking grace of God, did that did that all happen? It was really serious because at that point, the baby was so big that I had to have a C-section. I was they let me labor for like eighteen hours before they were like, this isn't going to happen. This baby's way too big. So you're going to have to have a C-section.


And there were serious issues. There were serious issues with me.


I got an infection in the hospital, but then, like, cut to even after the baby was born, I was still like calling and fighting with my insurance company. Like, yes, I had to have an emergency C-section. The anesthesiologist wasn't in network because that's just who was on duty. So I didn't get to pick, like, who I wanted for an anesthesiologist. I just got who was there. And then they're like, yeah, that's not covered.


And I was just like, well, I mean, what the fuck?


Yeah, you know, so I'm so heated about this after my lovely pap smear with this doctor today who I paid for, by the way, out of pocket and submit to my insurance. But she's out of network, you know. I mean, as most.


Doctors like most. It's it's like usually like it's just I'm not going to say karma they do this, but like when you need a very specific doctor, that doctor's always out of network. I feel like that's just the way they do it. And it's like the doctors that are super overworked and are rotating shifts are the ones that are in your network. And the person who could like I always think about it, like therapy, like my therapist is out of network.


And I feel like every time you're like this therapist is perfect for me, it's like, yeah, I think that that's out of network. And I think that, like, without dragging anything specific, that is how they they like it. If you need help, it's out of network, OK. Yes. Except all except that in this particular case, G.A., I want to just posit that, you know, and people have done this with abortion, people have done this with other things that if men were the ones that went through labor and delivery, if men were the ones that had organs that operated differently and needed special care and attention, would we be there's no way we would be having this discussion.


There's fucking no way. But these are decisions that have been made over the last 20 years by big insurance companies headed by by rich fucking white dudes saying she doesn't need she doesn't need six ultrasounds during her pregnancy. A woman doesn't need six ultrasounds during her pregnancy. A woman needs whatever the fuck she fucking needs during her pregnancy. You need something different than what I need. And a woman also needs the same one or in some cases, two doctors.


As an OBGYN for their entire pregnancy into delivery, that's how you reduce the maternal mortality rate in this country. That's how it fucking goes down is by these insurance companies letting it's it's truly like everybody is being held hostage by these old white men.


What do we do?


Like, I don't know. I don't know. What do we call like? I don't know. Well, yes, I think Elizabeth Warren, I think that there's legislation.


I think that, like, there's I mean, there's the I mean, the Women's Health Care Protection Act basically just ensures abortion. Remains legal, but we I don't know, we have to like like literally the doctor and I were like having this conversation today in the office and she's like, women have to rise up. You have to rise up.


Women need we need doulas. Like, we have to return to the old way. Guys like we need doulas. We need women who can deliver babies and who can and who like no midwifery. And it's this like that's what we need. We need more people to, like, get fucking in and be like this is we're all taking responsibility for this, all of us. Maybe I'm going to become a midwife. I don't fucking know.


I'm just saying Erica Badu is a doula. That's right. I was I was going to say Ricki Lake is as well.


Have you ever watched her documentary? I think it's called The Business of birth. That's why I give birth naturally. Why? But even though it's locked.


Yeah, it's it's so amazing.


When I was having children and calling insurance companies and fighting with insurance companies at my particular insurance company, at one time, I just thought to ask for the very kind woman's name and extension so that I could always reach the same person when I was calling.


And so we developed a rapport. It's not always possible. It just happened to be possible in that case. And we were going through like a particularly frustrating thing where the insurance wasn't going to cover something that my doctor said was necessary. And I was like breaking down because you're like full of hormones and you don't know what the fuck you're going to do.


And she just said, listen, like.


It's our job to try to wear you down and to try to get you to give up, so just don't give up, keep fighting it. You got to keep fighting this fact.


And now, you know, you call any type of big corporation and they're telling you, like, this call is being recorded for customer service, quality purposes or whatever.


So, you know, you could never get away with probably doing the same thing. But that woman did say, like, just keep fighting, like, you know, that's what you have to do. We're doing this on purpose.


I'm just like concerned and concerned for the women in this country who are poor.


I'm concerned for women in this country who are already like in communities that are struggling. And I don't know. I don't know.


It's just like systemic. It's just the thing that I think about, even when you're poor, even if you're not poor, it's like very wealthy black women die all the time because like 40 percent of med students think that our skin like we don't feel pain.


Right. You know, I write I read that fucking I read that newest fucking article wherever it was. Yeah. Just straight up like people in medical school. And that that was the most recent study I read was twenty sixteen. I'm not talking nineteen hundred baby. I'm not talking eighteen twenty five. I'm talking about twenty, sixteen. Forty percent of medical students. Residents think that black women feel less pain, less pain, less pain.


Yeah it's, it is systemic because I mean look at what happened with Serena. Serena Williams. Yep. We almost lost her because she had a medical condition that she's like familiar with her entire life and explaining to the hospital, like, look, I have this very life threatening condition.


And they were like, now you're my. So maybe this is I'm not even fucking around, guys, maybe this is the answer, maybe the answer is we really all do need to take birth back. We need to take women's reproductive health care back, and we need to go back to a system because this is all ruled by a patriarchal system.


Right. Like and like, sure, we can we can do because here's the thing that, like I recently have realized, like we can do multiple things at the same time. Right. So we can work on legislation. Obviously, we need to we can work on, like the business of being born. We can work on the insurance and all that shit. But I think and if any women out there are listening, I think we need to take back.


Women's health care and like, we need to start committing to becoming doulas and fuckin, what's the word, advocates? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it an advocate? Yeah, like like a health care advocate. Yeah, like a health care advocate. Like a women's health care advocate. Like I want every. I want every. Like black woman to have like a woman's health care advocate, you know what I mean? Like, I want everyone to be able to have that.




So let's just do it because we're we're women. We can do that. We can organize that. Yeah.


I mean, it's one of those things where it's frustrating that this thing has to exist. Like sometimes I feel like, you know, when I'm talking to like a repair person that comes to my house and they're like just like not willing to deal with me. And I get the gut feeling that it's because I'm a woman that they don't want to explain to me, like, how the plumbing works or whatever. And then my husband comes in and they're like, oh, sir, thank God you're here.


Let me tell you.


And I'm like, he doesn't know shit about plumbing more than I do, you know what I mean? Like, what the fuck? And so, like, it's so frustrating. On the one hand, it's a relief that he's there and it just fucking gets done, you know.


And but on the other hand, it's so frustrating that that situation exists. And I feel like that's very similar to how, you know. Yeah.


Like having someone come in and put their foot down for you when you're in a very vulnerable position and don't know what you should fight for and what your you know, you should be entitled to, it would be really helpful to have someone come in and be like, no, this is what you're doing for her.


This is what we're not doing, you know? I mean, like my Lamaze class had me fill out a whole birth plan of how I wanted my birth to go. And like the doctor might as well have, like, crumbled it up in my face and threw it away, you know what I mean?


Like, you know, not at my birth plan, you know, who, like, made sure my birth plan went so the way I wanted it to the Mark Silverstein guys. Maybe you've met him. Yeah, the dude.


Yeah, the guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's the one. Yeah.


That made sure that everything that I'm going to need a lot of a lot of men to like barge in and then step aside. I think that's the thing. Yeah. That's what it is. Because like I think that women like a lot of shit we want to do. But like we just I mean they make it really hard for us and it would be really easy for those insurance guys to be like, you know what, we're not going to do that anymore.


And then then that's just a wrap. So I don't know. I don't I don't know the answers, but I do think that, like, because that's the hard thing is like women like what what a man doing.


You're doing nothing. You won't do it if you know something. But it's you like in addition to you help in. Yeah. In in regards to like the crisis.


The crisis. Yeah.


Maternal mortality crisis in this country that I'm just like and literally this is not what I wanted to talk about tonight at all, but I'm just like in this space because I just had my fucking cervix swabbed and whatever. Like I'm just like, is there an organization all Central World Kitchen that week that I can help start and facility in which volunteers like do training and they learn how to be doulas and and women's health care advocates, so that like and in like rural communities and small communities, there are people and like they come and get trained and then they go back to their communities and then they're like, oh, that's the lady that knows all the shit about this, like all the shit about pregnancy.


And when you get pregnant, you go to her and she's like, OK, your insurance says you only get three ultrasounds. Like I have this fetal heart rate monitor in my house. Like, I would like you to come here, you know, like I check in with you every week and I look at you and I make sure that, like, your eyes aren't puffy and your skin is the same color.


Do you know what I'm saying?


Like, yeah. How do we sure that I'm sure that exist.


Like, I don't know if it does, but I don't know if it does. Shantira, I've done like a lot of work in this space. I don't know if that exists. Well then yeah. I mean like a network. Big fucking network. Yeah. Organization.


Yeah. That is dedicated to the health and well-being of of. Women's health, health, it should, right, rightfully probably be like an like an outcropping from Planned Parenthood, but Planned. That's exactly right. Fighting to fucking exist every year, every year.


That's what try to chip away and kill Planned Parenthood. So but that is what Planned Parenthood was supposed to be. That is what they were supposed to be. And yes. So fuckin the these motherfuckers then the Catholic Church.


Fuck getting ruined it.


Jerry Falwell, Jerry Falwell.


And and he got them to jump on board because it's actually like the religious right evangelicals and like, don't come for me.


Catholics are really literally do not have the time.


Oh, by the way, Catholics are we we're talking to a Catholic today. I am Catholic. Catholics are the fucking works. Fine. You know, Catholics and apology Catholics have a lot of a lot of fish they need to fry right now.


So hopefully they won't come come at you for for wanting better things for women's health. OK, you know, it's bad when Barbara Phillips is like, I'm out, I'm out of the house because it's too fucked.


Yeah, is too wild out here in these streets. Oh, all right. Sorry I went on such a tangent, but I really did have such an amazing pap smear.


And that evolved into this conversation with this OBGYN, who is like literally one of the last standing Obiageli hands in the country who sees a singular patient from start to finish. Yeah, my my lady has not, according to her, taken a vacation that has been like with in 30 years.




She's like not missed a due date of one of her patients ever.


She sounds great. She's amazing, but. They did want to talk about is what we're all doing our best shot this week? Casey, what are you guys? It was not the best week. No, not the best week in my house. I'm just going to tell you and I'm sorry to anyone who is harmed in the telling of this story, but we received a package at our house and we get a lot of packages.


I'm sure you get a lot of packages, you know, DVD and things that people send for because it's a podcast and.


Yeah, because no, no one sends me shit because I don't describe where I live. There you go. Yeah, the PGA sends packages all the time, packages, packages, packages all the time for just different things.


So we got a package. I opened it up and I was like, oh, it's like some type of product.


I don't know what it is. I sorry. It's a box of chocolates in the shape of vulvas.


OK, so I was like you.


What, what is like what is this.


At first I thought it was buttholes because I don't look at my mom all the time. So I was like I thought it was but all chocolates.


But they were vulvas.


And then I was like looking and I got the packing slip. And it turns out that these vulva chocolates were from my beloved mother in law, Karen, and they were, I guess, a Valentine's Day gift. And yeah. So my mother in law just sent me like a box of chocolates or like for the whole family maybe. I think there were for me and I was like, oh, we weird a little.


It's a little weird to get it though. I think so, because then I like I sent her an email saying thank you for this very surprising chocolates. And she was like, oh, I saw that they were like made by this feminist chocolate company. And I knew I had to get them for you. And I was like, oh, that's that's sweet. OK, so it's like a little less weird, you know, it's a little less weird there.


Dark chocolate. My mother in law really loves dark chocolate. So there were dark chocolate with her. Yeah.


And so, and my husband was like doing work, he was working on our bathroom trying to spruce our bathroom up. Still it's very ongoing for several months. And so he came in and I open the package in our room and he sat down and he was like, what are these? And I was like, well, I guess your mom sent me like velvet chocolates.


And he was like, OK, all right, are you OK with that? And I was like, yeah. I mean, it's very sweet. It was like a sweet thing. And so he was like, well, I'm going to eat some of the vulva chocolate. So he ate two of the vulva chocolates and then he was like, I don't really.


I don't love them that much because I'm like not that into dark chocolate and these are like they're kind of salty, they have like salt in them.


And I was like, yeah, I got them.


Vulva chocolates would be salty. So I ate a couple of them and I was like, yeah, they're they're fine. I'm having a bad feeling about this. They're fine, Yaling. They're very stressed. So then we just this was on the bed, you know, and so we just left the chocolates there and they were, you know, little red paper cups. And then Matt went to go work on the bathroom and I went outside to do some work and like, you know, everybody was just in and out.


And then Lincoln came outside and he was like, did you guys eat like an entire box of chocolates on your bed?


And I was like, oh, no, the dogs in the dog, the dogs, the dogs got the dogs, got through the baby gate, went to the end of the hall, an entire box of vulvar chocolate full of chocolate, dark chocolate, the worst possible type of chocolate.


And so we gave them it's not the first time the dogs have tried to poison themselves.


They have a history. And this was like our mistake. Somebody left the gate open. So we tried to give them peroxide that you can sometimes give your dog peroxide to make them vomit something. I didn't know that. Yeah, you can like.


It goes according to weight. So we quickly looked up like how much peroxide should we give them and gave them peroxide. And they were running around in, like, foaming at the mouth, but they weren't barfing. And so I was like, this seems like a toxic amount of chocolate. So like, yeah, let's go to the vet. Yeah. So we started calling. This was on Super Bowl night. So like that, that means the vets are empty.


Yeah, no, no.


The Super Bowl night was either the vets were closed. We called one. They said it was a five to six hour wait will be like those dogs will be dead.


Yeah. Yeah.


So then we finally called one vet and they were like, oh, we're like, no problem. You can come in right away. It's it's no issue. Oh.


So are you eating chocolate? Busy. We can hear it. You guys. I had to get some chocolate. Oh it's so good. OK, so OK.


So we went to this one place and they of course only let one person in with the dogs.


So my husband went in but I'm like, of course wanting to text him and like be like tell him that they ate like sixteen pieces and each piece weighed ten grams and more. And also like I sent him in with the label from the back of the chocolate to grabbed it out of the trash as we were on the way out the door. But then I was trying to rip all the parts that said vulva off of it because I didn't want, like the vet to see that our dogs like, it's bad enough that we let our dogs chocolate, but like vulvar chocolate is worse.


So so I sent him in with that. And then he came out and he was like, they're going to give them like an a medic to make them throw up. And it has morphine in it. So they're, you know, so they'll be like relaxed or whatever. But, you know, so we just had to live through that like two hours of hell.


And they have to say about your dogs is that they've never been relaxed. Yeah, they've never been relaxed. So, yeah.


So we were they were like, it'll be like three or four hours and then but then after an hour they were like, oh they both vomited up a ton of chocolate so you can come and get them. They're going to be like Hi A.F. which they were and they had like they had all black around their mouths because they'd given them activated charcoal.


They showed Matt a picture of their both their vomit on an iPad to, like, prove that they both vomited up a substantial amount of chocolate and then they just were like out cold for 24 hours and, you know, have like kind of a bad hangover.


Now I feel like like a bad morphine hangover, but they're fine. But it wasn't great. Wow, it wasn't great. And I'm like I didn't even ask how much it cost, to be honest, because I just can't even I can't even know how much.


Thousands of dollars. Yeah. Did dogs just do they love chocolate or I mean they'll eat their own vomit but they're like yeah. Because I know like like onions, like onions are like poison to dogs and if you like onion you like put if you put an onion in front of you don't fucking do this you guys. But like if you bite you in front of a dog they'll be like no thank you but like because it's so poisoned but like chocolate they fuck it up.


So like why I don't know. Yeah.


My dogs will mostly eat anything. I know that chocolate, onions and grapes are supposed to be particularly toxic to dogs and like then other plants. Shinjiro smell gross. Oh yeah. Yeah that's true.


I wear a dog. I mean, chocolate tastes delicious, yeah, yeah, I don't I'm here, I don't know, does antifreeze you have to be. Yeah, you have to be careful with hot dogs, dogs, antifreeze. Tastes good. Yeah, apparently it's very good.


Yeah, it's really sweet. Yeah. I think. Wow. But anyway Flavius why don't they flavor it. Gross.


Well I think it's gross for people. Yeah. Maybe, I don't know, I've never tried it. I just feel like I'm not even joking you, my dogs vomit every day, every time we don't want them to for free, they vomit everything. And so the one time we wanted them to vomit, it was not happening and we had to pay. Lord knows how much to get them to vomit. So that's that's that's just what.


I'm really sorry. That's been the arc of my week. I'm sorry that they ate out those chocolate Volda. Oh, it's so much, it's so much. It's like so much worse. And then Gina destroying my underwear, but also similarly disgusting.


Dogs love crotches in any form there. Why? They love crotch juice. They love a human crotch. They love each other's crotches. These two are sisters. So that's particularly weird. It's so upsetting.


If I leave like underwear, I left underwear out because I'm a little bit like a crotch up at the end of the night, like coming home from work. Late crotch pants up on the bathroom floor.


Yeah, kind of undressed. Yeah, that's my vibe, guys. That's my vibe. I'm sorry.


That is my vibe. Yeah.


And Gina takes those fuckin underwear. I am your mother. I am your mother. What are you doing.


And she. Oh my God.


Eats the cotton part out of my lady's bong. Yeah. That is so disgusting. Yeah.


That happened to a friend of ours. I don't want to rat her out but she, she was consoling me, texting me.


Someone who's been on the podcast.


How's that for. For a mistake. I see my doctor Seema is texting me that.


Yeah. Her dog ate her thong one time and it was serious business.


This is funny to me that they just like love crotches. Also, I, I, you know, I think titties is funny, but I think today I think crotch is really making a technicality for a right. Crotch is very funny, just like it's really doing a come on.


My crotch has gotten a lot of plighted so far. It's one of those Immaculata. And in the dog. Well, OK, I want to know what Chindia is doing her best dad. I'm doing my best at crotched the crotch. Well, my crotch hurts from peloton, but eventually I think I'm proud of you on your peloton journey. Thanks. And I'm not like a real peloton bitch. I just, like, don't want to run outside. That's like not my vibe.


Right. I need to be in the crib. I think that my I'm doing my best at taxes. I have to when you are not a person who has one job all year long, like if you're like gig economy, I have to I have like eight fucking Wheatus and I have to like scan them and put them into the Internet. And because the fucking Turbo Tax, whatever they lobby to make tax is hard. I have a tax person, but I still have to, like, wait for everybody to send me stuff.


So like right before this, I like skin like three documents. My document from my health insurance is a separate IRS thing, so I'm really doing my best at like by the end of this week, I will have scanned all of my sweet, sweet W-2 gigs into my computer. Also shout out to the notes app on the iPhone. I don't know about if you're like an Android person. I know that like they probably have been scanning documents since like 1998.


I don't fucking know about Android. I don't know that probably because anytime somebody like my iPhone does, this Android person will be like, oh, we've had that for four years. So I not I don't know what you got. I'm just telling you what I know is that you can scan documents using your iPhone and it's been like, very helpful today.


Oh, great. Oh, my best at doing my taxes, even though I don't believe I should give the government any money for what they did to us last year.


I know. Can I say that? Yeah. And are you sure that's what I'm doing?


OK, well that's good I. I think that's wonderful. Taxes are important. Yeah, when it's Tax Day, April 15.


Yeah, April 15th. Yeah. Or like whenever because last year they were like, yeah, you ain't got to do it. And I think it might be like that this year.


I mean, we didn't have to do our taxes. I moved here. It got like I got moved to July. They were like we got guys.


There was a lot here, a rare governmental grace period.


Yeah, right. They should just eliminate taxes for the year. Twenty, twenty and twenty twenty one.


Well just like other countries like you, the because the government knows how much money we owe them, they could just do it.


But they, they could do it for us, they could do it for us or they could be like you owe this much money, but they hate poor people. So they end up getting because poor people I know, you know, I'm like fuck the government all the time. But because poor people are so scared of being audited, they always overpay. And that's what the government tries to give to rich people.


So that's are some the countries, other countries, the government like they just tell you how much you owe and then you just fucking do it. So America is pretty straight. No, it's really not that hard.


I don't love it. So I am doing my best at. Well, a couple of things. Number one, here are the here are I, I just I went on that rant early on.


I really think we're on to something because I really think here's what I think.


Like a like a little bit like I don't know about you guys, but when I'm.


Amy County Barrett was nominated to the Supreme Court. I had a bunch of different strands of women that were like. Let's all get the let's all get plan B. Let's keep it, it's good for five years. Let's, like, find out what we need to know. Let's like stockpile it where we can afford it.


Like these ladies on my tax channels. We can afford it. Let's stockpile it and we'll have to start like some sort of network of, like people that have it. And we can, like, distribute it. We can get it out when people need it, like when teens and, you know, women who need it need it, whatever.


Yeah. So I guess what I'm proposing. V, my pap smear appointment today is something similar to like. Everyone who's listening right now, like we need to really genuinely think about what contribution can you make to like the health of women in your community, like, let's really fucking think about it. I'm really going to think about it, my friend. Actually, you know, Johnny, like, maybe you guys know me very well, Johnny Reyes.


And, you know, his girlfriend is many things. But one thing that she is is a doula.


She's like a trained doula.


She can, like, assist people giving birth. And I'm like, maybe we should all maybe like a lot of us out there, should learn how to assist in giving birth.


And like we should learn we should, like, learn all that shit that she learned a lot of things we should we should you know, we should I don't know what you're saying is we should know CPR and look out.


Yeah, no, you're we should all know CPR.


We should. Oh, I was going to say I did, but it's you guys. It's Stayin alive. It's stayin alive. Yeah. Day and alive. So you pump, pump, pump, pump. Breathe, breathe.


Oh yeah. The bridge is now you know it. There's also a very fun commercial that the Brits made using that to help people learn how to do CPR. They have fun with their medical stuff because I don't know for how long, but they were doing universal health care. So they were like, you know what? Everybody learn how to save a life because we care about people.


Oh, I had a friend who's had an experience with, uh, this is so fucking dark, but like a.


And like a friend of a friend, of a friend, of a friend of a friend, what up? A kid who had an overdose. Of a narcotic of like like an oxycodone, rhapsodic, and, you know, there's that like nose spray stuff, Narcan, Narcan, that's what it is.


Yeah, yeah.


Well my friend was like, hey, guess what? Your kids are a little bit young. But here's what I'm going to say to you after this story that we heard through friends of friends, of friends, of friends, of friends, whatever, maybe we all get Narcan to two doses of Narcan in our homes and we tell our soon teenagers when they whatever.


Hey, by the way, we have this thing.


And if I am betting that this is never going to be an issue, but I just want you to know that if it ever is an issue, this is the thing that we have and you come fucking to me immediately and we will fix this situation.


Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Because the summer that we were filming, I feel pretty in Boston, they were having a really like they were having a really brutal time with people having overdoses like homeless on housed residents having, you know, on the street overdoses. Yeah, there were billboards all over town saying, like, God, Anakin got a Narcan prescription. Get one like you don't have to have an addiction to carry Narcan with you.


Like, if you see someone in trouble, use Narcan, like it was all over the city. That was the first time I'd ever seen it. That was years ago, like probably three years ago when my friend brought it up to me, I was like. Yeah, I mean, Bird is a bit young for this in this moment right now, but it was something to think about. Maybe they're like parents of teens listening. I don't know, guys, I don't fucking know.


Well, you think that bird is young, but I mean, we're just hearing about poor Dr. Laura Berman. Her son was 15 and he got drugs delivered to their house from someone that he connected with over Snapchat. And he's got 15. I didn't know about that. Yeah, it just happened like yesterday. Oh, yeah, I think it's fine even I mean, like their kids, this is a trigger warning for anyone who wants to take a break.


But like there are kids who are, like, killing themselves when they are seven, six, it's getting younger because they have more information about how to do it. And the Internet is great for a lot of information, but not always great for other information. I also think that this kind of comes down to like the decriminalization of narcotics or like obviously the opiates. It's just like that's a whole big old billion dollar lawsuit for what they did, but like heroin and crack and a lot of I think it's Peru that has decriminalized all drugs and like it they treat it as an illness, not as a like a crime.


And it is like addiction. It's like. Right. They're sick and they need medical help. And I think that as soon as we get into that mindset like they should, there shouldn't be billboards for Na Na K.M. or whatever in Boston, Boston, they should be helping people. And I hope that that's where we move the legislation. It also empties prisons and changes lives. It's like, yeah, you don't want to go get help if you're going to fucking go to jail.




It's there are towns that sort of experimentally the law enforcement is, you know, that's their philosophy experimentally are treating drug addiction and drug offenses as an illness instead of rather than a crime.


They're having like a great deal of success as far as I know. So it seems like we're we're like facing a chain of problems. First, we have to stop treating addiction like it's a crime and treating it like it's an illness. And then we have to make it so that people can get their illnesses treated. And then, yeah, maybe we'll be like on track for for being in a little bit better shape.


Well, on that note, this is the other thing I wanted to bring up, which is that. I will finish it tonight. But I have only watched the first 10 minutes of framing Britney Spears. I haven't been guys watch. I have I need to be in a place where, like, if I'm going to be as mad as everybody else is, I need to have a day off.


I need to I need to be ready for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I already know how sad it was. And then I'm getting snippets of it. People being like, I can't believe this. Also like I know that like I really like Britney Spears. I think she's great.


She's really I mean a fucking blackout baby. Fantastic.


Oh. But I think that I need to be in a place to, like, watch a whole movie about, like, the destruction of someone who was, like, very influential, not just in pop culture, but like, you know, everybody I know the moment. I know exactly where I was when I saw the video for the Hit Me Baby one more time.


I like that. And I'm not even like a super Britney stand. Like I remember being in like a finish line in the mall. I think it was like summertime. And we were like school shopping. And I remember, like back in the day, you know, they used to play music videos and all those shoe stores. And I remember hearing that song and being like, this sounds good. And there was no Shazam. So I was like, I have to watch this whole video till the end to find out who this girl is singing the song.


Right. I remember like looking up and being like, damn, this white girl is singing a good song. And then I remember and I literally went, Oh, Britney Spears and then walked out the finish line. It's like she's so culturally important to so many people. And I hope that people realize, like, if you could be this fucked up to Britney Spears, imagine what, like 15 year old girls who are in a high school who do not have what she had and they still fucked her over.


So like I said, I watch this weekend when I, like, take like two edibles. And it's a vibe.


I mean, it is. Here's what I think I think that like well, I think thematically everything that we always talk about. Runs along the same lines, someone says something and the first three minutes of the show.


Which is if this were a man, I can't imagine that we would even be having this discussion, which is like where Shila buffs conservatorship goes, right.


You know what I mean?


Like where's Joaquin Phoenix's conservatorship?


Like, what are we fucking doing here?


Why are we allowing this man to control this woman who's like like she's Rapunzel? Like she's fuckin Rapunzel, dude, but also I like I.


Truth be told, in years past, I do feel like I haven't had a full, like, grasp or understanding of like what the Free Brittni movement was about.


Like, I think I was a little bit dismissive of it just in terms of like, well, guys, whatever.


Like no one knows the full fucking stories about anything, you know what I mean? And so, like, anything that's like generated that seemingly like fan base generated movement, I'm a little bit skeptical of because I'm like I trust that the powers that be are like acting in the best interests because.


Blur because I'm like trained that way, because I trained that way and then to really, like, dig into it, you're like, oh shit. No, but really think about like, why is Shil above not under conservatorship, like where is that? You know, and like and by the way, guys, again, I haven't even finished the fucking thing yet. Right, 10 minutes. Well, like 10 minutes in.


And then I had pizza. Yeah, of course.


I'm saying I have to be emotionally prepared to watch it. Just looking on social media where people are are bringing up these old clips where she's like 16 years old, being 17 years old on German television, and they're asking her if she has breast implants.


And, you know, here's what grossed me out the most. In the. So they have like one of the first clips of her on Star Search and Ed McMahon, Shinjiro, do you even know who Ed McMahon.


I watched Star Search. All right. Ed McMahon, Star Search. And then the clearance, the Clarence House. I'm sure there is house clear, but he will. Yeah. Yeah, he was Johnny Carson's.


Next, Sidekick's seat filler sidekick, sidekick. Next, he was he was, I told him, the next seat filler. Wow. Yeah.


Like like kind of an icon in American pop culture of the of five days of your old white dude with, like, white hair.


Yeah, she is. Somewhere between cricket and birdies age, when Britney is on Star Search and he says, do you have a boyfriend? And she says.


I know, and he said, why not? And she goes, because they're mean and he goes. This is Ed McMahon, 70 year old man to nine year old Britney Spears. What about me? I'm a nice guy. Oh, what about me?


I'm a nice guy. And this child who's like, I want to please and want to succeed, I want I don't want my parents to be upset. I want everybody to like me. I want to do the right thing says. And I guess that depends. And everyone laughs Yeah, and like that was the whole shirt, that was the moment where I was like.


Motherfucker. Yeah. She never had you never had a guy that she never had a fucking chance? No, she would barely have a chance. Right now we're back right where bad that we're bad.


We're still bad, right? What's it like? It's like now we're just like just good enough to be like, dang, five years ago we were bad. Well, I think right. You're right.


I was like, I don't see the lies and we're still bad.


It's just it's very it's very, very shocking to just look back at things that like at the time countdown's. Oh, yeah.


Just the countdown. Still, the Olsen twins were 18 and countdown till Britney was 18.


And just all of these things that we just sort of were like, yeah, I guess that's normal.


You know, like I guess that's it's been a real it it's kind of made me sick, like all week.


I haven't I haven't even looked at the documentary. I will because I feel like a responsibility as someone that's worked in entertainment and that, you know, little Britney, young Britney was on shows that I worked on as a guest.


And and I you know, I don't even I hope we did right by her, like, wherever I worked, like, I can't even remember the particular performances.


So, you know, it's just my hope that that everybody did right by her in places where I was.


But just in general, like, it's just been making me revisit so many things that kind of turn my stomach, to be honest. Yeah, it's. Deeply disturbing and then to like, yeah, to see where. Where she goes now, she's not. I mean, she's just a couple of years younger than me, right? I don't know. I just I got so sad and I was like, what are we going to do so like, bebetter?


I mean, that's the thing too, because I mean, there's a lot of things that we can't do immediately, but like the immediacy of like understanding that we can't let the public eye or just like people in our lives sexualize young children, young girls that way. I think that we're so I mean, we have to because, like, men are dangerous, but we're so like that man said a weird thing. Don't make your daughters hug people.


They don't want to hug like there's so much guys.


Don't make them sit on fucking Santa's lap. Yeah.


So bad vibes like we don't we're not there's so much sexualization of young girls that we are just like, well, that's just the way it is. And just being like, no, we're not doing that. Stop asking babies if they have boyfriends. Stop, just stop saying stop saying about the boy babies is. Wow, he's flirting. Yes. Really flirting.


Yeah. Right.


It's got to be a killer and then like really honing in that if like someone is mean to you, that does not mean they like you. That means they're being mean to you. They like you. They'll be nice to you. And I think it's really reprogramming all these things that we have been like programmed to believe are OK. Yeah. Like pass up or just like a lot of it is just about women, young girls not having autonomy of their own bodies and letting whatever comes from the outside from usually in adult grown ass men and.


Oh yeah, it's just like a women santero because, you know, like with Burty specifically and just for anyone listening at home, I when I post pictures of my kid and I see in the comments when you guys are like, oh, like.


Go after people who use the she her pronoun and they're like. Party prefers them, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, Berdy and I have talked about this very thing. And we both but Burty, specifically because it's their life, cares less about that than the fact that, like, people comment on their appearance.


Yeah. And like talk about how aesthetically pleasing they are.


Do you not? I mean.


Yeah, like, Berdy would rather you call her she and say something like she's got a cool fashion sense then like look at their beautiful face.


She sued them saying yeah, because they're also they're they're, they're a child because body says and Bert and I say but like we all fucking say but people don't get it. They're a fucking child. Like this kid is not yet their kid.


They're kids. They're they're a kid. And it's weird to sexualize them. Well, also, like 18 is a fucking kid. I know that. Right. Can vote and you can buy and you can join the goddamn army and all that kind of shit. Have you seen the fucking have you been to a high school? Have you seen or have you truly, truly looked at a 17 year old or an eight year old? They're fucking babies.


Why did they look like children? Yeah, every once in a while.


That's why I cried when those people had Access Hollywood, played that video of me when I was 19 doing an interview because I was like literally floored at what a child I was. Like, I didn't remember well that I was yeah. I thought I was a I thought I was grown. I mean, I think I was grown. I think about like when I was like sixteen and I was like in the car with my friend and we like go to McDonald's and I'd be like, wow, we're grown ups.


And then I like seeing pictures of us like you. If you really go look at like a picture of you when you're 16, you're like, oh, this is a baby walking around being a baby like.


Yeah. And then just also as far as like commenting on the way a child looks or like even commenting kind of anything to a child. Think back to when you were a child. Did you ever like that? No child wants anyone talking about anything that they look like or any oh my God are or anything like. We all uniformly to every last person listening to this podcast hated that when we were children. If if anyone loved as a child and adult commenting on what you looked like or who an adult thought you were or what you were good at or what you should do with your life, please tell me, because I would love to meet you because I guarantee that it's nobody.


The only thing I ever liked to age was when adults would say to me after plays that I was in. You're going to be a big star someday. I did fucking love that case. I did. I did. I have to admit it. But I will say I'll say this about that. You were in a play for a reason because you were trying to put something out there. So, OK, because I wanted people to come up to me and be like, you're going to be a big you're going to be a big star.


So if a child is singing and you want to comment on their singing and you want to say something nice about their singing or the way that they play baseball or anything, but if a child is just standing there minding their own goddamn business, you mind your own goddamn business or like ask them a question about what they care about maybe and just have a normal conversation with them. You know, but people are good people. The argument would be like, well, your mom puts you on her Instagram and like, that's like fair game.


And I would argue I would argue personally, just because it's me not allowed to do that.


That wall like Berty has. Concern over the pictures that I posed and like the captions that I put with it, Berty is still a kid. Yeah, and lots of people, famous or not, post their children on all forms of social media and that we all as adults need to have an agreement. Unspoken, maybe. Maybe I'm speaking out right here that. We are going to put forth toward our. Piers, children. Things that we would like to like, hopefully shift in the culture collectively, so like I'm not going to comment about your kid that your kid is so fucking beautiful.


And please stop commenting about how beautiful my kid is and instead, please, let's find something else to talk.


Yeah, it's I mean, does that make sense?


Yeah, it totally makes sense for me. It goes back to my rule about, like, commenting on someone's weight, like on an adult's weight. It is nice to see people's children.


And that's all I really need to ever communicate is like, oh, it's nice to see your kid. They're getting tall. Yeah, you know what I mean?


Like the way I love seeing people's kids.


Yeah, I love it. Right, and that's why I still share mine, even though, like sometimes I'm like, is this the right fuckin move? Am I fucking this all up? I don't know, because this is all a goddamn experiment by the West yet. We've never been and we've never been here. You've never been here.


There's nothing to compare it to. And who's to say that? Me like what how I choose to do it is any better than the fucking kind of semi famous parents that like put an emoji over their kids fucking faces, you know? I mean. Right. Who fucking knows? Those kids will be in therapy when they're twenty six and they'll be like, my mom was never proud of me.


She put on a Mojie over my fucking face like I don't know, I don't fucking know. It's never happened.


I'm just trying to see some babies in like yeah. I'm not going, I'm not going to be weird.


I love, I love the little Asian babies. I love little black babies. I love your little smooshed up. Why babies. Why babies look weird but I love them. Shout out to all these babies like that's where I'm at. I'm just like I'm just trying to see a baby and I'm not going to say your baby's hot. I'm just going to be like, whoa, look at that baby. And I'm I say to myself, I'm not even going to type it.


So I think that there's this thing where it's just like pee chill. Everybody just I think the a thing to you ain't got a comment. Take it to the group chat, comment out loud in your house and then keep scrolling. And I think to yourself, say this.


No one has ever been like, oh my God, look at Gina's lips.


I don't know any way. Can I tell you something? Can I confess something to you? Yeah. When people do post photos of their kids, I do always just pick one kid that I will always like. Just that one kid's photos that.


I like talking about how it's all a social experiment. I don't know why I do it. I just pick a kid that I feel like needs to be the kid. If somebody has multiple children, like if somebody has.


I know this about you. I know this I've known this about you for years. And I do think it's weird.


I think that it's like I think it's funny. I wonder what it is consciously that you're like this kid needs my support and that I'm going to I'm a double tap this gas that I feel like that's what it is like.


I just pick one and go with it because I'm like, the kids never know. See which one of yours. Which one of mine.


Well, yeah, I, I mean, I will say that Lincoln is here so he gets photographed more often and Eli's not really on any social media, so he doesn't care. So Lincoln's just the one that gets pictures posted of him. But I do post pictures of Eli. Yeah. It's not the same guy down kids. Well once in a while when he's here.


I know, but what like what if I was like I only like the pictures of Eli.


It would make me laugh. So which one of my kids. I know which one it is. I know which one it is. But you say it. Should we say it at the same time.


No. Here is like don't do it. Don't don't do that to kids. We know this is hypothetical. Yes, I know you do it with my kids. Right. I love both of your kids. But I talked to I talked to one of your kids more because one's like a preteen and doing their thing and then the littler one hangs out and we'll talk to you because she's little, you know.


So I feel like I feel like in a social situation at your house that cricket is like my social peer and Bertie is like off doing something. So you mean like pictures of cricket?


Now, I like pictures of both of your kids. I know your kids. That's how you guys you guys can do the read.


You guys can do the research on your own. I got to go do this right now. Come on. Don't waste your Saturday. I have known about doing it though.


Is Saturday OK? I know both of your kids, so I feel like I you know, it's it's not like they're almost my kids, but it's like I know and it's kids. I say it's more fun when you don't really know them.


It's like, yeah, it's like when you when you have like a high school friend and they have five kids and you're like, I don't know, I just feel like that kid, like spiritually like can use the like like I appreciate your accomplishments. It's always the nerdy, your kid, it's always the kid who like doesn't do sports and like who won a Latin award or whatever. That's the one that I always go for.


I mean, I know, you know, I'm just trying to trying to even up the the universal sky's.


I love all of your children. Here's a thing I'm I'm going to I'm going to do a 180. I do not love all of your children.


I don't I don't love all your. Just they're no longer a baby.


Yeah. Once once they're out of into your eyes like. Listen, you got a plane going to drop some of that. Yeah, yeah, I'm just trying to live that baby life and then we talk about it in the interview that's coming up. But I only buy babies. I buy babies, baby Jordans, because I think it's funny. That's my lifestyle. If you can't wear if you can't wear a Jordan that will fit on my pinky finger, then I don't care.


No one. I'm so sad that we weren't friends for either of my children being babies. Oh, my God. But Shinta, you know, Erich's about to have a baby. That baby could really use some Air Jordans.


I fucking love babies. And Jordan's I think is so stupid and fun.


I have some Jordan's. It is so stupid.


I there is a part of me that's like, do I have another child just so Shinjiro will buy that child. No Jordan.


Because that's just a bit it's all just me. It's a bit but also a lot like me.


It's a lot more, it's a big responsibility just to get one pair of baby Jordans. It's a long piece of things. What you want to decide. I really do.


Like I like to give baby Jordans, too, because then you tie the little strings together and then they're like a fun little ornament for the first pair of giant you've ever had.


So I did have did you have any of your kids baby shoes bronzed or anything?


I don't have. Oh I never had that. But I do have my older son Eli. We always loved Puma Clydes, The Suede Puma sneakers. And so I have his first pair of little baby Pumas. But what's kind of weird is that that is still like his shoe to this day. So now that he wears size thirteen Pumas and so he always will like take a picture of his little baby Puma next to his size thirteen puma and be like, do you think people would like want to make a commercial with me, a lifelong puma wearer.


That's really you know I like that too.


We got bronze, the only pair of shoes. I have a pair of shoes. From Berdy that were like these there are these little. Read Mary Janes, and I didn't get them bronzed because I didn't know how to do that, but I do feel like if I looked it up on Etsy, I bet I could figure it out nowadays.


But probably when Bird born, it was like a.. Fashion thing. Yeah, this is well, I guess this was like 11 years ago. Right, because Birdie's almost to your heart.


I mean, Twitter was just popping off. It's hard. It's like now we're like, I can find anything if I type it in. But like, yeah, the Internet wasn't really fucking like that.


It wasn't like that. It wasn't like that. Guys, it's moved so fast. When it was the thing that people did, it was like a thing you got done through, like Sears Portrait Studio.


I don't know some of the pressure. And that was that wasn't around 11, 12 years ago.


That's right.


It was in between Sears Portrait Studio and before like the advent of Etsy.


Yeah. So I still but I kept the shoes, I kept the baby shoes and they sat in our old bookshelf in our old house. And I loved looking at them. They were like these little. Read Mary Janes, and they were really sweet. They're so small and that's why it's so they're so tiny. That's why I came in, because I can't walk. It don't make no sense. They don't it doesn't make any sense. Well, he could walk.


Bertie could walk.


Bertie was when Bertie were those shoes. They were. Like 15 months old. And they looked like Justin Bieber, you know, that Britney looked like me when they were a baby, right? Yeah, I could see it. No, no, no.


Like the irony of the world of the bird as a baby looked like Justin Bieber and as a young child looks like Selena Gomez.


Truly wild. Let me ask you something.


Were you scared by Justin Bieber when you were pregnant? I don't think I knew who Justin Bieber was, because sometimes I think that don't they say that, like, if you're scared by something while you're pregnant, your baby comes out to look like that? Is that true or do you?


I don't know. I think oh, I don't know. I know that I was I know that, like, I was shocked by Birdie's crop of hair.


Yes. And I had really bad heartburn. And that was an old one. Oh, yeah.


That makes them hairy. The hairiness. Yeah. I had really bad heartburn and everybody was like, you're going to have a really hairy baby.


And I was like, go fuck yourselves. And then Burty came out and was very hairy.


Oh my God.


And and had this Swoope this like you remember you the bangs old baby Justin Bieber.


Yeah. Yeah, the side Swoope and that was Birdie's hair. But he has like this really incredible. Khalek like in the front, you know. Yeah. And it sort of swoops their hair down, like in that exact direction of Justin Bieber. And so when Bernie was like a year, year and a half, I was like, oh, it's my Justin Bieber baby.


Like, it looks like Birdie looks exactly like Justin Bieber. That's hilarious. Handbury started to look exactly like Selena Gomez.


I don't know what it means. I can see both things. Yeah, well, yeah. It makes sense because does Selena Gomez not sort of resemble Justin Bieber in a way, and maybe that's why they were attracted to each other? I was going to say sometimes we're attracted to people that look like us because we like how we look. Yeah, sometimes Bertoia's has. Showed me girls that they thought were cute and I've been like. Berdy. That girl just looks like you like a man, you just want to make out with yourself what's on your mind to be.


I think often we either like someone that looks like us or someone that acts the opposite of us. Does that make sense?


Yeah, like, well, yeah, I don't know. I think in, like, hetero normative couples, a lot of times that free and thing of like you pick people that look like you're like if you're a woman like your dad.




Or like has traits of your dad or if you're a man like your mom and like traits like your mom and I don't know, like maybe there is.


I don't know. I just don't know. It's interesting, that's tall, but I think that that everybody wants that. That's the thing. People are you attracted to partners that remind you of either parent? Um, I think like looks wise. No, like I mean, my dad is I do like him tall and lean. So, like, give me a basketball body. That's your dad, right? Yeah, dad. Yeah. I like him totally.


But like also that's like just being like I like hot people like that is not type like you know what I know it is. What is it. I know what I love.


I love professional basketball players on this. Like I'm not fucking special. Like they look into it. Some people are into short dudes. I know short ladies. I mean, you can be into that.


But like, I think object attractiveness, just like Brad Pitt's face is good. It's like you're like I was attracted to Brad Pitt. You're not a special bitch. He has the fucking face, you know what I mean? It's like I do like it's like I don't know. I'm not attracted to Brad Pitt. You don't have to be attracted to him. But you can. He is attractive. Objected. Sure, sure. Sure. She's fine.


But that's what I'm saying.


Like, I'm not trying to date him, but it's just like me being like, oh, what do I find attractive? I find the I find a six foot four basketball playing man attractive. That's I think that's that's that's a Neanderthal fucking bullshit. That's that's just normal.


That's biology. That's, you know what I mean. But if I'm just like, yeah, I got to be ginger, they've got to be ginger then that's just like some ecstatic shit.


I like when I like when you are surprised, attracted to someone and it makes you mad because you just can't figure out why it's happening.


You oh my gosh. I know. I was surprised attracted to I fucking loved him but now I like don't do you remember that show Man vs. Food.


I would love him. I love him.


I really did. I was like, I don't know what it is. I just really love this dude.


I mean everything. I love that he was having a good time, not the kind of wings. And I was like, I would date him and bring him up again. If you're listening.


No, I think bad. I can't remember, but. Oh, no, I don't remember like but I do remember when man versus food was like big. I was like, I don't know why I like this man so much.


Would you kiss him?


I want to be laughed so hard. I love we original one and man just like you.


And then you're like oh my God you're um.


You think this person's hot. Yeah I'm too busy. Is an original host Adam Richman? Yes. That's who it was. He was just like a husky white boy.


He's a husky white man and, you know, I'm not trying to date a white man, but I just really, really I was like, you know what?


I would hold hands with Kiss and trying to eat a double decker pork sandwich with him with realism.


Oh, God. I said I was mad about when you look on Google, like, why did the original host leave? He did something bad, right? Right now it's man versus food. Star has so taken off the air after his, quote, inspiration rant.


Oh, he did something.


He did hold on. He is postponed and indefinitely after he sent abusive comments during an argument on Instagram. It began when he posted an Instagram photo with the caption had ordered this suit from a Savile Row tailor over a year ago.


I think I'm going to need to take it in a little and out of the hashtag for inspiration.


One Instagram user criticized him for using the tag, saying it glorifies negative media self imagery that being thin is better as opposed to any other body style.


OK, this is like wild because it feels so quaint to like me and like in terms of, like, controversy.


Yeah, he lost a bunch of weight and I liked him Husky preferably. I like them eating them sandwiches. He lost a bunch of weight and I was like, OK, good for you. But then like, I can't, oh, he did something bad. And I was like, damn, OK, no, it's not that bad though. He wrote. He wrote, Obed, eat a bag of shit. I did. Wow, no apology is coming if it inspires someone to attain a healthier, thinner body than that was what it was meant to do, only fuck up, it seems, was your dad's choice to go without a condom.


OK. Well, it's really.


I'm telling you, it was it gets meaner.


Grab a razor blade and draw a bath. I don't miss you. That's brutal. That's brutal. But also presidential. Yeah, that's just that's just what our last president would say on any day. I know that's fucking crazy, this is six years ago and I'm like, I mean, is that bad? That bad?


You guys, you asked me who I thought was attractive and I was upset about it, as you can see, rightfully so adamantly in your eye contact, Shantha.


She's no longer in the scheme of things. Present day. Yeah. Is that cancelable in this right now, today with that answer?


I think that if it is on a I think it was like on NBC, ABC or something, he was on like the travel, the travel channel, you he he he picked the wrong network to fuck up with.


They could just be like, we'll just play 45 episodes of Samantha Brown and then that's just going to be the end of it. So like he should have played his cards better because he's not doing anything else. That's why I like I'm not saying shit. I'm not trying to lose a job for fucking Instagram. That's fucked up. He lost his job. I know. Now that Mark Zuckerberg owns. Now that's fucked, you fucking idiot.


I that's like.


We've been talking for far too long. Here's what I'm going to say. I really enjoyed talking to our guests this week, Cameron Esposito. And here is an update for you before you even listen to the interview slash.


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OK, Karen Esposito, thank you for joining us on this podcast, taking a break from your own very successful podcast, The Pain.


How can I see you? Well, we're giggling. Everybody's giggling, and that's nice. Sometimes when you get on a podcast and it's, say, a bunch of dudes that have comedy backgrounds, then I find it's not a giggle.


No, I that is very true. I've had a lot of those experiences myself.


Oh yeah, I, I would say it's the you know how when a like of like a black hole sucks in end, like the collapsing star collapsing stars, it's sort of that feeling of if you laugh then you can other people can know that they've had power over you. Oh.


Laughs Oh yeah. And I keep it in. One of them will suck out all your laughter.


One of the most powerful things I think that anybody can do I love this is like when a man says something that they genuinely think fucking crushes and you just look at them and you're like, that's what we're saying, all right, I'm working on this or not there yet.


Or you could do what has happened to me my entire career, which is like those funny. You know, you're actually pretty funny.


I would never tell them that.


I know that's another option is you could laugh really hard in a way that's overcompensating for how and say, oh, yeah, yeah, laugh really hard and turn around and walk away laughing really hard.


The stop and then take off a dead sprint baby boom ba. Oh my gosh.


Before we start, I just want to say Cameron Esposito, comedian, writer, author, TV star, domani, multi hyphenate.


We like to say stand up, stand up comedian.


I did say comedian.


OK, all right.


Well, specific to stand. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That that kind of comedy. Exactly. Because it's true sometimes.


I just want to say before we get started, because I don't think this will be a part of our like asking Cameron about her pivot story or anything like that, that you are the comedian of one of my favorite all time bits in the history of comedy.


And that is the bit about getting period.


I also have never heard anything describe that way. The I am the comedian of one of your favorite bits. That's the best thing ever. I just want to pause for a second. Thank you.


Too busy for acknowledging that it is different to say that someone's a stand up. Thank you. Busy. I feel very senior. That's true. That is important.


I'm glad also I really am so glad that you like this.


It's you can it's chunks is what you can look on YouTube but it also it's.


Oh I know that he's played it for me, for me a long time ago.


It's the number one. It replaced the former funniest joke about chance that we all know from third grade. Yeah.


Chunks is my dog and. Yeah. Yeah it's so good. It's I love it. Everybody don't listen to this. Thank you.


And I don't care what clip is findable anywhere, but one of the best things I've ever done in my life.


So it's a it's a it's describing the experience of having a period but also like the what is produced in a period, you know, and it's like pretty specific.


And when I was taping an episode of The Meltdown on Comedy Central, I asked the production was like, what do you need anything special for your for your set?


And I said, like, can you give me, like, 250 jelly donuts before, like, strawberry jelly donuts?


So before I came out to do this bit, they like passed out strawberry jelly donuts to the audience as like a snack.


Oh, my God.


So I was doing as I was detailing anyway, it was really fun. And I love the chompers. I also love such a good it's such a good bit.


And it just like really it's very educational for people that don't get periods.


I think that that detail is very surprising to people.


Sometimes I think they think like it's like just like a couple of it could be while complaining, a friend of mine this is a friend of mine had like a chunk so big that she was like, I'm going to the doctor tomorrow because.


Yeah. And the doctor was like, you're fine. And she was like, no, I need us to talk about it. But I was like, oh yeah. How did that girl go talk about it? I once had a chunk so big I had to throw away a bathmat.


Oh shit. But I don't, I don't. That's so beautiful. I wish I could say that. I'm not going to like. You know, like some couples are like, I want to see poufs, like if if you ever if that ever happens to any of you fucking call me.


I want to see you soon after birth. Shantaram know. But that came out of my vagina, too. And that was like a whole other thing. That is not as fun, I think to me after birth. I just I'm like Tuesday. I want to ask a question.


What the heck is busy? Like, we don't talk about this very much. Right, that after birth. So, yeah, what I do know about this experience of like having your period is often you see it right. Like product of what has come out of you. That's a surprise, right? Your encounter I'm encountering as a person. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm looking at what I don't know is do they like, hold up the. Do they show.


Do you. Well are you encountering it.


Well so here's here's what people don't tell you about afterbirth is that give me the goods. You give birth to it. Yeah. Yep. Yes.


OK, so the fit what I imagined before I gave birth was that the baby would come out and I would feel immediately different, like I wouldn't have this giant thing that had been taking up so much space in my abdomen.


It would be gone and I would feel like that release and I gave birth to my first kid. Oh, my God, so long ago now, and and when I looked at them, I was like, how is Birdie's?


How is this kid still inside of me?


Because I hadn't given birth to the afterbirth yet, and once the afterbirth came out, Casey, did you have natural. I can't remember a C-section.


I am so. So but afterbirth doesn't come immediately after you have to wait.


And the umbilical cord for birdie was still attached in to the so like up in my vagina while they were like, suctioning Berty out and everything. And Burty was like on my chest being suctioned out, umbilical cord still up inside me. And then I think it was like about five minutes, although I had, like, no concept of time at this point.


You were busy. You were busy.


The doctor is still down there and I still hanging out down there, checking everything out, making sure it's all OK.


And he was like, OK, now it's time for you. I need you to, like, push again.


And I was like, what, are you out of your boxes? Did I know that was a whole push? I did like a whole baby came. I did a giant, by the way. It was a giant baby.


And and then Dr. Crane was like, just it's a little push. You're almost done. And he helped because he, like, pushed onto my stomach at this point, like, pushed my stomach and like, I pushed at the same time and then it, like, pushed out and they put it in like a giant bucket.


And I saw it. It was real. That's all the bucket. Oh, yeah, no, I saw the whole thing and then I sent it to a lady that, like, dehydrated it and made it into pills.


And I took the profit. And you took them in your body? Yeah. Oh, wait and see. Your obstetrician is named. Dr. Crane was all right.


I didn't do the placenta pills with Burty that like didn't exist yet. Yeah. Birdie's almost 13. I did it with cricket.


So so but I did see I for sure we looked at the placenta.


You sought to talk to anyone with you, seemingly because they e-mail it, so you the second one away, we had to I had to sign a medical waste release form. Oh, yes.


Yes. Well, this is what I'm looking for and what the one that the lady made the pills out of, but the lady who made the pills came and got it.


I didn't have to take it.


So I like that is like if you're signing up for that, like, you got to come get it. Like if I'm paying you for that right now, I'm not bringing it to your crib like you got.


There's like, yeah, I don't trust it because I think it's like some lady dehydrator that has like 15 placenta's in it and then she just twirls them all up together, like always happens at crematoriums when they're like, sure, this is hot.


Well first of all, covered so much. She's covered too much.


Each topic each topic is perfect, I think ethically because it's blood you would probably want to be. And the women, the doulas who and like midwives who do this, like, you know, they take it very seriously.


So I imagine that they clean out the Ron Popeil food dehydrator and I imagine that they disinfect it or they sterilize it. I mean, they do. I mean, it is too late. It don't matter.


Nancy, I took those. Well, no matter what, it was as good as mine, but.


Yeah, but just real fast. And then we'll move on from placenta's.


That feeling of the plus of the afterbirth coming out was what I imagined actual birth would feel like allouche like a woosh.


And it was out and it felt kind of like delightful. Yeah. And then my stomach felt very empty. Oh yeah. It was not it was still very fluffy, but it felt like I had gotten rid of everything that had been inside of it.




OK, no, I really appreciate this because I never have no babies so I'm not having no babies. I, I just want to make sure everybody know. Don't ask me about that shit. I have no baby. So I really appreciate you just telling me what it is. So thank you for giving me like that's like you know they don't teach a shit.


No it's not as you can use camera. Do you, have you thought about carrying a child. Is that something that you ever would think of what a great kid doing.


I have you know, it's what an interesting cue I am, I have thought about it, it's such a it's such a fuck is all I have to say.


It's so confusing. I always thought that something would come into my life that perfectly solved this question for me.


Like, I just so I am somebody I've never had procreative sex right in my life.


And so, like, sex has never I've never been on birth control.


That's delightful. And vaguely touched a condom at a time that might have been 20 years ago. Like, I don't even know what anything is.


And I didn't have sex ed either because I went to Super Catholic school.


So I'm just like in my own lane, sort of just like experiencing sexuality and reproduction is like in a pretty different way, I think.


And then I think gender wise, I've always thought, like, absolutely will not carry a baby.


But this has this this problem hasn't been solved rightly by the universe I kept waiting for.


It's like it's like the mist clears and there's like somebody there that's like, I'll do it for you.


I love your egg.


And I say, you know, ah like ah it's like just like something else is like I end up with like this really amazing.


Like somehow there's a penis involved that I feel attached to in some way, like I just have thought it would actually work out but it hasn't magically worked out.


And I am partnered to somebody now who has like a like a chronic illness. So she has a less. Good body, the grave in terms of like, right, weirdly, as much as I may hate myself body wise, whenever I go to the doctor, they give me a big thumbs up.


That's I love that. Right. There's a good job, kiddo. Yeah, but what about how I feel about it now?


Doesn't matter. Your cholesterol is pretty good. Yeah.


They don't take that into consideration. That's a different doctor. That's a different doctor. And it's probably if the way I have experienced it.


Not in your network are the good ones. G.A. let me tell you right now, Carlos.


Right. Not in my motherfucking network. She is not in my network. Yeah. Now yeah. They never are. So I don't know, you know, I don't know what will happen.


I do know that like, you know, even though I like I think of myself as gender nonconforming and I have been asked whether it was a boy or girl essentially since the day I was born, when the doctors were like, who don't know, you know, like what I like just like and I I still was cultured, female.


And so, like, I have been wondering about this question with like a ticking biological clock thing for like a decade.


Yeah. Like I'm thirty nine now. I was you know, I remember being twenty nine and being like my whole body will be useless tomorrow, like based on nothing I never even had you know.


Anyway, so TBD, you beat me to your eye.


So I don't know if you know this Karen, but my kid is well Bernie is gay and prefers they them. We've talked about it on the show. Bernie and I talk a great deal about it. But Bernie is adamant, adamant. And now I always say, but you're not yet 13, but adamant that at no point ever, ever. Do they want to carry a child? Oh, yeah, like that is not in the cards. Yeah, like a.


. You have felt forever. I absolutely know that. I did not want to do that. I also think that, like everybody, everybody's different. But I knew that, like, growing up, I felt very adult, like I had to do a lot of paperwork myself. Like I feel like if you have been a grown up before, you're 18, I don't need take care. No kids. I took care of a bunch of grown ups already.


I'm grown now. I did that. My grown ups is raised and now I'm not taking care of the kids. So like that is me. Like that is me. And I also like I think obviously. But I want to be a fun black aunt. That is my vibe. I've been trying to slide into that forever. So like, if you got a baby, I buy all babies Jordans and then when they every birthday I give them a hundred dollars and then I would go about my business.


That is what I've always wanted. But I also have seven aunts and they were very influential in my life being raised. So like growing up, I was like, my parents are very nice, but I want to be one of my hotties. So like that's on me. That's that was my life, you know?


I mean, I hear you. Well, I don't think this is something I ever it's just confusing because so a couple of years ago, my sister had a kid and my dad is adopted and so's his sister and.


How old is your sister? My sister is three years older than me. OK, so a couple of years. Yeah, you're the baby.


I'm the middle. And a little sister, too. Yeah. And.


Also, many women in my family had kids at 40, which is unusual for my four oh, like our parents generation. Unusual. Yeah. Anyway, but my my dad's whole side of the family doesn't look like us because his sisters adopted.


They have my cousins, my extended family on that side, my nana and papa that I grew up. We don't look the same.


And I just grew up like, you know what? However, you grew up as normative to you. I never thought about that. But then my sister.


So I just always thought I would probably adopt or foster my sister had this child and she's the first in my family to have a kid. And so I have never.


Like, I didn't you know, I didn't I you can't see yourself as looking like your parents so easily, but I can see that this child is like of my sister and it's very affecting.


Like, obviously, every type of family is valid.


I just didn't have as much experience with, like a biological family biology.


Wild. Yeah, it's pretty weird. Yeah. To look at.


Yeah. Yeah it is. And it's very similar, you know, behaviorally. And yet my dad's family in that whole like that's still my family.


But I just mean to be like yeah.


Have the same get to the age that I am and like startled by it like holy shit you look like my both of my sons laugh exactly like my father in law and one of them walks exactly like him. And it's so noticeable to me like that's all I can see is my father in law in these two young adult men. And it's so weird to me that I'm like, oh my gosh, like my father in law, I made part of my father in law in me and put it out in the world.


There are also so many people can like you can't see it. I mean, as I've gotten older, I can see my face more into my parent's face. But like, I'm from Tallahassee, Florida, and anytime time I go home, like everybody else sees it, like I'll be in the mall. And one time somebody was like, this is daughter. And I was like, what the fuck? And they're like, I you daughter. And I was like, Yeah.


And they're like, we know it. Tell your mom, hey. And I was like, fuck my name. None of that you care about. Not that you don't love his daughter. Great. So like it's so funny what other people say. Like I have on this. I have a hoodie and jeans. I've been home in two years. You knew.


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Well, I do think it's like it is interesting to think about and as you it is, it is just so Birdie said it last night when we were talking about something else and.


Oh. OK, because I was really hot and I said, I don't know, maybe I'm going through menopause already, I'm forty one and Bertie is like, what's that?


And I said, oh, well, like, at some point you just you stop, your periods stop.


But like, when that happens, you get like all these things like hormonal, whatever. I explain it to them. And Bertie was like, right. But like men can have kids when they're seventy five. And I was like, yes they have.


Yeah that's right. But at some point it's like a last call for you.


She understands the vibe. Yeah. You understand a spectacular. Yeah, yeah.




It feels like a bit of a last call in terms of wondering about what's next. Yeah. Yeah.


It's definitely like. OK, well, does anybody need anything quite like this? Can I get anybody does anyone want to settle up for their shots like that? Do you? But like you said, like you're not.


You're not bucking for you know, you're not going to get it just by the love that you make with your partner, you know, so like you have to married, right?


Well, you have to make it a choice and then go about a choice and an offer in a way that, like a lot of cis straight couples don't, you know, like they're like, oh, shit, we got we had to like a wild night after that wedding. And now we have a kid, you know, and the decision is made for them is what I'm saying.


And like there's no part of your journey as a parent that would be like out of your hands, which is why I understand that you're like, I've been waiting for a lightning bolt, my uterus.


But exactly. I mean, that's what's so funny also about like.


I had some conversations about this with my gynecologist, like the last time I was in, and I was just like, you know, this is like like like, hey, vaguely don't like don't hold me to this. Don't make me do this. But like. And and it's funny because I am actually in an interesting category. And this is true for a lot, a lot of folks.


I'm in an interesting category of people where, like the other, he was like.


He was trying to give me information about, like what it would be like to try at my age or whatever, and he was like, but the problem is, is that you have like no data because a lot of these services are for people who've been like it.


There are there are a ton of straight couples who, like, need help, of course, with fertility rate of trying and trying to use the data for like what the statistics are like. Pretty much most people, many people in that group have ever tried to have a baby. So I was just like, they're like.


Right. I don't know.


The data set is zero amounts, like I have no idea to go from.


I mean, your guess is as good. It's kind. Well, yeah. Well, I will say something. I have seen you give advice to kids before. I've seen you answer advice letters. And I think whatever way a kid ever comes into your life, what a lucky kid if that happens because you're so nice.


I love kids. I really do love kids. And I really love them. I can tell. I can tell where was it for a rookie. But yeah, I did sir. Ask a grown up. Yeah. Yeah.


I feel like as an adult I went there to get the same advice that 12 year olds were getting and I saw yours and it was really, really touching. And I just made birdie that I thought they should listen to your podcast. Oh that's wonderful. I know I'm trying to, but you haven't interviewed Harry Styles yet, so it's going to be a little bit tricky to get Birdie on yet.


I know, but I think you could yet. We did get we did get Haley Kioko. Oh, jeez.


Her episode came out. Yes. Yeah. And so so I just want you to know, just if you're trying to pitch, OK, podcast like we have Tegan and separately Sara and then also them and also Tegan and Sara.


Whoa, whoa. You know, also Haley Kayoko, what other pop stars have you had? We've had some pop stars. I don't want you to think. Yeah, I'm out here peddling some podcast that doesn't have passed.


I will never do that to you anymore.


Oh, we should say for people that only for people listening. Cameron's podcast is query. Yeah. And yeah. So tell us a little bit about the podcast.


Well, I started it four years ago because I realized and this is kind of still true, that like a sort of serious and but also fun and funny, but like real chat there, these hour long chats with.


Yeah. People, you know, I've had like Olympians, astronauts. It's like wild who has invited everybody into this show. It's like and it's like the coolest people in the world.


And I just find that often as a career person on not a podcast like this, but in an interview situation where you're like being taken seriously, the questions are you get for questions. You never get beyond those questions I was listening to.


And this is like maybe someday I'll actually speak to this person.


So I don't mean to shit on this person, but I was listening to a Terry Gross interview where she asked a queer person if they had ever slept with a man.


And this was like in covering this, this was a a huge sports star who there's like so many questions you can ask.


This is not one of the questions. Like, we're we're like gabbing like this vibe of us, like talking about all this, you know, like we're we're pals.


We're gabbing like that's a very different thing than like your NPR interview.


Somebody is being like that's like another LeBron. Andy Cohen question is pretty. It was pretty wild, right? Yeah. Was it to Congress House.


And I mean, I be like we just are never going to get away from this.


And so then that is when I started the show and I can't believe who has said yes.


And it's it's also like not just like celebrities, but many different types of people who have many different types of jobs and who are many ages. And I'm always, um.


And I know there's like many other queers in my future, so I just personally, I've been listening to it a bit, you know, trying to catch up because I wasn't listening for the past four years. And and I'm because I'm also trying to.


A good parent to my kid, and there's a lot of information and things that I don't know, and one thing that I think is really interesting, I was listening to Abbe's your interview that you did with Abby Jacobson, because I know Abby and I love her.


We our books came out around the same time. So we had like we were like thrown together for a lot of press for our books. And, you know, her book was essentially like, you know, her coming out a bit and like and my book, like also had a lot of confessional and like things in it. And we would just like be sitting in these interviews and they would like how reductive things get, like instantly. Oh, yeah.


Which is what you're speaking to. And like in your format, you get this, you know, opportunity to really, like, go deeper, whatever.


But I thought what was really interesting is that, like, she was talking about even like the word queer and like identifying as queer and we're the same ish. I'm 41, so I'm like two years older than you.


But I was explaining to Berdy, I was like, look, dude, queer didn't exist when I was in high school. Had it I don't know, maybe I would have identified as that.


And Birte like, rolled or rolled their eyes because obviously. I'm the worst, but also but like but in terms of how things are changing, when you went for a tour at the LGBTQ I.A Center in Los Angeles because Burty did a project for school, like a volunteer thing there last year before the pandemic, one of the board members who was walking around, Berdy, was pointing out flags and saying what they were.


And the board member was like an older, older than me gay man. And he was like, I got to do better. I don't know what any of these are, you know what I mean?


Like. And so that there's something really informative and great and natural about listening to the stories that people have to tell Ian, because it's like. We're all moving into a place where we need to have better understanding these things are some of these ideas are very new to people. I think that's right, I think that's a really good I mean, yes, I think, first of all, I will say a ton of parents do listen because I meet them when I went in a in a in a normal time when I'm trying, always parents come to my shows with kids standup shows.


Always that happens. It's the fucking coolest.


And I always say to that parent, you are really good parents like to come with your kid to something that your kid might enjoy is like is fucking cool.


So, OK, I'm going to definitely do that. When you're on the road again, say that. Yeah. Yeah, but it's it's true. So, so that's one thing that I will say is, is true, but another thing that is just like interesting. So I find queer culture like super fascinating. And one thing that is interesting is that as a civil rights movement, nothing, nothing has ever gone this quickly, changed this quickly, like.


Yes, OK, Black Lives Matter had a huge like moment this year, had a huge moment in twenty fifteen. You know, the two huge moments for that, the civil rights movement.


We're still working and. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like shit like OK. Also there was a huge movement in the 60s. Also there was a huge movement in the civil war like we are.


That is a slow moving train for.


For LGBTQ like awareness, rights and inclusion, it's super fast and I think the learning curve is really steep. And one reason that it is so fucking fast, by the way, is because there are white.


Yeah, that's what it is in the movement. So because there are white men who are gay who have money, then that became an important. Thing to care about X number of years ago, and now the democratization of the Internet has moved the needle a little bit so we can talk about other types of people who are part of this group. But it just really is like there are micro generations, like you being 41 and me being thirty nine.


I graduated from college the same week that Massachusetts became the first state to legalize same sex marriage. And I went to school in Massachusetts and I went to school at a college where I could not come out because I could be kicked out of school for being gay. So my first girlfriend and I, we were closeted.


We went and we like went to the final school dance together, risking, like, not getting your retribution diplomas.


Right. Like, we just weren't sure what would happen and then graduated. And then at the end of that week, we stood in front of the of the of City Hall in Boston and watched the first couples get married. So the moment that I was like an adult, you know, we think about graduated from college as sort of. Entering adulthood, if people go to college, I think that's a real moment that you feel like an adult for the first time.


And so I got to feel.


Like, as I was an adult for the first time, I could do this thing, but if I was just a year older, I would have entered like Urquhart's adulthood, because I know not everybody goes to college and not had this thing and like that massively shapes. How a person feels about themselves, self-esteem, and to think about the world that like Bertie will have, I mean, it's it's not going to be fixed, right? But it is.


So it's just changing so quickly that I think it's endlessly fascinating.


Yeah. And to think about who is still marginalized and why. Right. Just there's a lot of really interesting.


I have older gay guy friends who a couple of them were deemed upset when gay marriage was first legalized in Massachusetts. And I was like, isn't this like a celebratory time? Isn't this exciting? And more than one friend said, it's upsetting to me because I would have lived my life differently if I ever thought this would happen in my lifetime.


It's the French women and the Metoo movement.


It's the old French ladies in the Metoo movement where they're like, oh, my God, oh, no. That's just what men do. See, I did it, you know?


And you're like, wait, what? Yeah, yeah. I'm really surprised.


I mean, there's a branch of everyone. I mean, like, right now, if you were talking about, like, millennial version of that, it's like if I paid off my student loans, you should have to pay yours to the idea of.


Oh, yeah, I mean, there's a version of it for saying everything. But I also think that there is a thing where obviously with those older gay men, there's a danger involved.


Right. In doing that.


But there are moments where it's like you could have like not to be a dick, but there are races where people are like, well, you could have lived your life like that, but it would be dangerous.


But I think that one of the things that is like very when I think about those people who are like, well, I had to pay my student loans, I think that we have been, like, indoctrinated to think that, like, suffering is how you grow and like to suffer is how you become a person. Like to have bad things happen to you is how you like like when when people interview you for stuff, they'll be like. Now tell us about the worst thing that's ever happened to you and how you overcame that to be a superstar.


And it's like I just want everybody to have a nice fucking life. Right.


You should well have to like the idea that everybody has got some fuckin investment and everyone else's life, like how everyone else wants needs like would like to live their lives.




Like the some dude who's never met me or my kid can come on my Instagram because he has feelings, you know, about like I don't know what what do you fucking care.


Let me live my life, let my kid live their life.


But if you're doing that and then I'm not there, then I have to think about my own life. And I don't want know how to project on you, baby.


Well, Cameron, not to make she shinta his point, but what is a time in your life and what what do we do?


Like to talk about pivots on the show and those don't have to be battis. This show doesn't have to be a bad pivot.


But from knowing your career, your life and your career, I feel like you your life has been rich with Pivot.


Oh, yeah, yeah. I just that nothing has ever made me laugh harder than that. That's the hardest I've ever loved. So I'm like, oh, I'm so glad I was really caught. And I've never left. Once in my whole life I've been holding it and I never laughed so hard in my life. Oh my God. Oh great. OK, yeah. That's how I laugh. That's the first time it's ever been recorded. OK, also I'm getting your book.


I'm sorry that I haven't read it yet. I wanted to.


Getting your book is impossible.


You got really boned on the whole book thing like so many people because your book came out in March of 2010.


Well, I would like to like truly break this down. So my book is called Save Yourself. Uh huh. And it was last week one of the pandemic. Oh, no. Week one. And also last week one of the panini.


Yeah, I am pretty good at the. I'm pretty good at. Uh. Working too much like myself into a grease spot, you know, like like working myself in an unhealthy way to solve a problem like that's I love that zone.


So I did make, like, you know, immediate pivot, like book tour. Well, I also I canceled my book tour to be like, I don't I think this I don't want people to get sick on my watch. And then the next day the NBA was canceled.


So it was just like a dog. Like I think we're just I think just stuff. Yeah. You know, like I was like I was like a Nazi, like because I care about it.


It's like like like like like like stores don't exist, OK, like congrats and everything, but like.




When they went to the NBA totally earlier when the NBA shut down, when I used to work at Apple, when Apple shut down, I was like, oh shit. Oh this is like, you know, like Apple.


They don't turn down for what. But nothing.


I know. I know that's where the juice is crap.


So it was pretty great though.


I have really supportive, really supportive community because so all of those book tour sales, you know, there were tickets sold and all of this had to be returned. So essentially it was like then the book was for sale in like three days and there were like like no books sold.


And because a lot of your listeners at home, this is this is what we will call a book break. Yeah. Or a publishing break. Book break. We do Hollywood breaks. We do lots of breaks where we explain some things. Yeah.


But when you do a book tour in support of a book that you have coming out, oftentimes the tickets include the book and they partner with indie booksellers around the country.


A lot of us don't know this, but independent booksellers cow sales account for more than big box store sales of books. When you're talking about getting on the list, The New York Times best seller list. So what you really do want are. Those in those big venues that you're selling out for you. It was a huge bummer and huge bummer for the book because, you know, like many people work on it. But this was also like nobody knew what Zoome was.


Yeah, I just I just knew about I knew about it from, like, an unrelated thing.


So I replaced all of my book events with, like, virtual events, which nobody was doing yet, which I only say because there were nobody was this is nobody was talking about Zimbabwe and yet no privacy settings existed.


Oh, my girlfriend Katie was just in the other room and I would scream to her, something terrible has happened.


At one point I, like said Jones was like these like amazing literary writers came into these pages because you were interviewing like huge, huge all star writers and it would be me.


And then like also hundreds of queer people scared out of their minds in their homes with their cats.


And then a zoo came and took over the screen and screen, shared the most hardcore pornography I ever saw.


I don't know if you've ever seen poop go into it, though.


Oh, my God. I only seen this because of this.


And also, like Zoom is such a new technology, I couldn't figure out, like, what did I hit?


Like is the the showing but shit go into. But, but I just I, I actually did the move, I slammed my laptop up like it did because it disconnected the thing.


But then I had to tweet and say like everybody read and then like anyway but all of this is just so that's somehow this book is was still a bestseller.


And it is because the queer people that came to all of these events and bought it from indie bookstores and all that and they showed up for you, I in return gave them a ticket to see this.


I know, but I got a logical like that was why. It's like why like I'm like just like I'm sitting at home and I'm like, I know what I want to do tonight. I want to log in to zoom and I want to do this. I know what I'm going to give Cameron Esposito's crowd.


I hope that person bought a book like I. I cannot even imagine because, I mean, do they have to watch it? I don't know if been sharing on Zoom like it, it I think it actually just displays it for other people. So it's amazing to think about that to like how brilliant that is.


Yeah, sure. You got that stored on your computer, but you figured out the one way where it can play and you don't even have to watch it.


If that person is listening, why don't you go like fuck up some student loan debt or something like you seem to have a skill set, are like you're a hacker.


Yes, he is. Because he is literally 12 years old. Yeah. Well, I mean, you probably you got the time. Shit, you got no bills. So go ahead. Help help people out. Yeah. Oh, yes, so that was all of that was a very that's a that's a huge digression from the question I was asked, which is about a bit, but that was a but one.


It's that's a pivot. It. Yes, a pivot. Yeah. Yeah.


I've had I've had a few pivots just this year.


You know, I I was like on. I have this very weird experience of like. You know, I started doing live performance when I was in college and got a job right after college, I had a day job for a long time, but I've just been doing this for a really long time.


And then I moved to L.A. sort of at like this time where it honestly felt like they were like, we've never seen a lesbian like I was I was like, when was this?


When was these twenty. Twelve. Yeah.


They had never had never seen a lesbian. Yes. Right. Yes. Like, my haircut became a wig that was then on SNL, but people were just like love. Is this like if people couldn't figure out was going on.


And I was you know, I was coupled with somebody who also did stand up and it was like this whole thing was just like what? Like, you know, I also am like a hustler.


So I was like pitching the UCB for a show, like, can I have a show here? And then I was and that was turning into a television show. And you know what?


Not all of this stuff was happening and it happened very quickly. And then.


My marriage fell apart, and after that I had like a year of just not being sure, like where I fit in terms of.


Where I live, because many of my friends were people that I had met through my job, and so there was like all of this kind of baggage and I was really destroyed.


I was destroyed. And so it wasn't necessarily. I couldn't cope just using stand up for the first time ever in my life and. I had this huge shift for like a year and then the pandemic happened, so it's been like these sort of two years of like my my my life train was on like a very specific track.


And then it really was like like the twirly mustached dude, like, flipped to the track.


And then I was like, whoa, going over here and like and like I've just been going in a different direction and.


It's been pretty wild, like. I was supposed to go on this book tour and then I was supposed to go to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and then I was supposed to do an off Broadway run of this piece that I was working on about divorce.


And none of those things happened. So I just had this massive opening in my schedule and I.


Decided to go to divinity school. Why wait, wait, wait, did I make this up?


Weren't you always I was actually weirdly have like a thing right here. I just realized.


Yeah, like you this up. So, yes, me dressed as a gay. Yeah.


Group group super Catholic and I like was a theology major. And I wanted to be a priest. I was like a believer, you know.


And then I read all of the things that the Catholic Church actually teaches.


And I was like, oh, because it's like one to like. Vaguely know about what's happening at Mass, but it's another thing to, like, go live in Rome and like read the stuff and be like, oh, I don't I think this is actually colonialism.


And it's also it's like pretty not cool for women and. Yeah, right.


Right, right. So I had like this massive shift away from my faith and just was like a full atheist for a bunch of years of my life and.


Anyway, I had this, like, willingness or interest in seeing what was happening with folks who are in spiritual community, because I have been feeling a little. Tired of stand up, like I made a special that was called Rape Jokes, that was about my own sexual assault, I was just kind of like dog. I think I'm like chill for a bit like saying my big giant piece.


I think, yeah, I think that I can kind of. Take a break and. Anyway, I don't know what's going to happen with this in the future, but what I will say is that because of the pandemic, I was able to enroll in classes at like five different institutions and like petitioned different professors and like join there like these.


Take a bunch of master's level classes in divinity. That's really cool, including from my former thesis advisor at the school that really rejected me and his his class was called forgiveness.


Like, has this ever happened in your life?


Because this actually happened in my life where I went like, yeah, what this professor is up to that 20 years ago, I felt respected me, even though no one else did. And he was teaching classical forgiveness. And I reached out and said, like, hey, I don't know if you remember me. And he said, I was just listening to you on NPR because my book had just come out. And so we have like a relationship now and check in via Zuman.


Um. I took like I don't know I don't know what will happen, but I will just say that, first of all, I love that I have completely quieted while we're listening.


Yeah, we're listening because it's really interesting and fascinating.


Unexpected, but it is unexpected. I agree. Yeah. But I mean, for some I mean, honestly, for so many reasons. But but it's not. I don't know. It doesn't seem.


Super wild to me, know for me. Well, I think many stand up comics might not do this, but I might.


Well, I was going to say, knowing you and knowing how you are, the important things that you've done with your comedy, because I did want to touch on rape jokes because I think that's a thing that people that love comedy, people that do comedy, a lot of people say like, oh, you can't make a rape joke.


And I think you speak to that so effectively. And an episode of your of your television show also sort of centered around an unexpected rape joke and the fallout from that and looking at it. And it just meant a lot to me that you bothered to talk about it.


So it makes a lot of sense in it's wild that you're going to divinity school. That seems like a wild twist.


But it's also actually it's also actually not like it makes sense.


Yeah, I'm not currently enrolled in any classes because I needed to take a break from them to work on some other work projects, but and make money as opposed to just spending.


But I have I've had I've been having like a pretty. Massive shift just in what's important to me and what I'm spending my time on, and I am so much happier actually, and I'm so glad that these things have happened in my life.


I think that that's relatable to a lot of people coming out of what surely is one of the fuckin wildest. Times on record this past year, but I do think that one thing that we can most of us.


Get get down with is the idea that it's caused everybody to stop and just examine what it is that they're doing and what they care about and what is happening and where they're going to go.


You know, from here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what the fuck?


I don't know what's happening. Anything can happen. Anything can happen. Turns out anything can happen.


And and also your partner had covid. Yes, I.


Right. Oh God. Oh shit. During Ieremia. Oh God.


Yes. And it was not good. Right. It was really scary.


It was really scary. Yeah. Yeah. So.


Right, when I first met Katie, she came to visit me in L.A. and she got a cold, but she doesn't her immune system is suppressed because of what's going on with her, because she has an autoimmune disease or her immune system is suppressed.


So this cold turned into pneumonia and collapsed both her lungs.


And she was hospitalized for 10 days in five different hospitals.


And I was and then she had to live with me for five weeks, rather, like, really just barely dating.


And so my point is, when she got Cowbird, I'm sorry, she was like, oh, no, I'll stay.


That's why I'll never be.


Why it just never ended.


Yes. Well, she eventually, like, got back to New York and it really was like, that's the movie is like she's like in a wheelchair. And I'm like but like by inches from my teeth.


And she ended up living there for another year and we just dated long distance.


But anyway, yeah, my life has been wild.


She moved to L.A. like all of her stuff got here and she completely like gave up her New York apartment February 1st of last year.


So imagine like we move in together February 1st and we're like, let's see how this goes. Like trepidation. And it's like, boom, you're in it forever.


And so when she got covered, it was super scary because she already has lung damage and a rotten immune system.


And so, um. We take you into the hospital a couple of times, but she ended up mostly convalescing at home and it did take a long time, but she's she's OK. I'm so glad.


But you are, like, instantly thrust into the role of caregiver. It's wild.


You know. I mean, I think she's also I will say she's like incredibly she's she's got a really cool job.


She's an editor.


She book editor. She's really smart person. She's really independent and has her own whole life in her own set of friends. And also, you know, it is complicated being with somebody who has a chronic illness because we are not are like our bodies can't don't do the same things.


And I never met somebody who, like, I did not realize how skewed my understanding of my life privilege in this area was. But like, my body works like pretty, pretty great.


Actually, it turns out it's interesting. I think that's something that, like a lot of people have who are, you know, full body abled or is that is that what we say?


Guys, come on, help make able bodied. Able bodied. Yeah. Able bodied. Able bodied. Yeah.


And it's also something that probably all of us are going to face in some form at some point, but we just don't even think about it.


All right. That's that's right. That's right. Yeah. I think that's one of the most that's that's certainly something that that she talks to me about and that we talk about is, you know, that you're like out of step with your peers.


Yeah, so odd. Because. Yeah, well, I mean, you also got a dog, which is cool when I'm say life is fucking calm and always keeping it.


Yeah, you have to decide.


You are you are very calm seeming with it in the middle of every storm.


You're making it work. Yeah.


What do you what do you do with divinity school at a certain like do you want it. Do you think teaching is in your future?


This is the so the degree that people are getting who are taking the classes that I take are people who are going to be like spiritual leaders.


Right. Like practice. Practice.


OK. Yeah, but not maybe not like like maybe minister but I don't know that I'm not sure if it's something that I will continue to follow or not.


It's more so like it's been interesting to wonder about it.


Like that's why I started taking the classes. Is this something that I like. Do I want to. Yeah. Do I want to work in ministry? That's what I thought I would do to begin with. But it is funny too, because most of the I'm an older student compared to the other folks and I've had a completely weird life, like sort of an unrelatable life, like for a student.


I think I wish I wish more people who have lived the life did go to divinity school. I think that, like as I grew up, like Southern Baptist, you know, and I think a lot of a lot even I think a lot of religion is like these young men being taught something. And then we are supposed to go to those men for them to interpret God. And I think that a big part of I mean, like I am a believer, but I do think an important a part of not just religion, but like an important part about God is your personal relationship with God.


And I think that what happens and what has happened is so many people leave their personal relationship with God in the hands of people who went to school for it are people who are in their family, obviously. And I think that when I when I'm in Chicago, when I was 20, 21, I like found the church because I knew we went to church every Sunday, but nobody ever told me why. I just knew it was a thing we did, you know what I mean?


And I think that even if you are not a believer, I think it's like as a comedian, I don't like to make fun of something unless I fully understand it. People love making fun of God and they don't have a relationship with God at all. And that's perfectly fine. But I do think that it's the more you know, I was like, I think you're both your jokes would be better if you took a divinity class. So I really think that, like, that's really cool.


And even if you never use it, like, I really love the idea of, like, we could all learn a little bit more about everything, but I definitely think can all learn about a little bit more about God and whatever that is to you.


So I really think it's cool.


Do you feel like you have like are you back in like Jesus, Billy? Like believing in Jesus and God and the whole and Mary and all of it?


That is such a good question. I, I like love it.


No, I also was never what it was like for me when I was like fully in. Yeah.


Because I grew up with this like very social, like Jesus was a social activist was the part that I thought was chill's like this very leftist Jesus love.


He did a bunch you know.


Yeah. It's truly it's called liberation theology. And like it's the it's the part of Catholicism where, like in South and Central America, priests were overthrowing governments.


Now, do I, like, think that the Catholic Church has, like, good intentions?


Like, no, I don't actually think that. I don't think they're I think that institutions and systems mess with a lot of things. But what I found is that, like.


The idea of. Like working to make things better. Mm hmm. Unfortunately for me, was like implanted in. My body and mind and soul by faith and I was curious to find out, like, has anybody made this? Is there is there a version of this that could work for me still?


Like like, for instance, the black church? Like folks. Like, can I can I study what the history of the black church in the US is? Because it's very that's a group of people who weren't exactly.


Yeah, so I mean, I don't need to tell you, but like, I took I took a class at Harvard that was called Black Women in the Black Church, and it was like me, the top by a black woman, I hope.


Yes, it was. There were like two white women, many, many black folks who are also at the experience of, like, being able to be at Harvard for the students. This is what they were saying. And be in a class like this was like truly wild because it was a visiting professor also from an BCU.


And anyway, which is its own problem, why don't they just have a black woman on staff who teaches racism?


But yes, right. Anyway, this is all just to say that, like, I was there sort of trying to listen and read along because. I was like I just wanted to know more about is there a faith that doesn't inherently marginalize, like, is there a faith that. Rejuvenates and that works in justice and. You know, I mean, it's complicated because some parts of the black church are also very homophobic. Oh, yes, it's a complicated.


I think that, like just growing up in the black church, I think one of the things, too, is I think that, like, we can get into a whole discussion about, like, religion. And that's why I'm really I like to focus more on my personal relationship with. The goddess of the universe, however you want to describe it, right? I personally don't believe we came from nothing. And I explore that idea with, like, my my humanity, my personhood with like the balance of the universe.


Right. And I think that I didn't get all of that from my black church, but I did get a lot of the idea of faith, how to clap on the terms and force, you know, fellowship and also like. How to read a fucking room, I think that there are so many things that are light like fucking Tyler Perry and Madea will like make fun of the black church. But like, again, you can't do that until you fully understand or have to immerse yourself in that experience.


And I think it's like it's really cool, too, because like I always say, like black people know everything about white people. Like I grew up in the Catholic Church. I know. What the fuck is all your fucking hymns? You're still our shit. Our God is an awesome God here. It's like I got to know.


I got to know Frazier. I had to move. In this world, I know everything. But so many people know so little about us. Right. And even in that class, that class at Harvard, white people need to take that fucking class. Right. Black people take it to feel comfortable.


Yeah, well, white people need to take it so that we don't have to be so uncomfortable. So I think that like that that idea of like obviously I always say, like your relationship with God, but like, go watch a black church or zoom and see like how a little bit of faith gets a lot of people a long way and that it's it might not be sound the same, look the same, but like a lot of those are inherently more alike than people think.


And I think that church a lot of times people feel divided in that. But like at the end of the day, like the Ten Commandments are pretty lit is like Dalkia.


Nobody don't pay taxes. And there's like the indoctrination comes from a lot of times letting other people interpret that stuff for you. I'm fascinated by this, Karen, you probably don't know this. I'm going to send my son one chapter of my book and make you read it, but it's about it's about it's about my Catholic upbringing and getting pregnant when I was 15. And it was really.


Fuckin wild man, but so I gave you in a lot of ways, I got my I have I have issues with with my kid because I think that my kid could greatly benefit from. Like a spiritual practice, but Burty really thinks like any religion hates them and doesn't want them involved and so preemptively has been for many years, like absolutely never I'll never be into.


It's tricky because also what do I do? I'm like, OK, yeah, I hear you. That's right. That sounds right.


I mean, absolutely, you know, it's a. Well, one thing that's true is that and this is at least, you know. To sort of the boundaries of my knowledge, based on like a bunch of undergrads studying and then like some grad studying, so like I'm going to speak in generalizations here, but.


I was talking to the professor for that class, but then a different class, two four, because I would ask in these classes, like what? Like what's talk to me about like. Like what? Queerness. Talk to me about queerness. Talk to me about how that's included. And so in the black church in the U.S., many queer folks like Stay, you know, and because that the church is also like a social organization and also provides social services.


So it's like a community center and also like where you're maybe getting your, like, vaccine, like it's just like it's a lot of different things, but like white folks have because we have so many other things at so many other options.


We left like white queer folks left because.


We like had neighborhoods and LGBT centers, we were safer sooner, and for that reason, like faith communities that are at all inclusive, that I feel like there's like the stereotypical like liberal white church like that is not something I'm super interested in.


Like that's woak to the point of getting in its own way.


Right. And then there are a lot of faith communities that just don't include us, you know, and like.


Or faith communities where you know, where it's like I love the person. Which is different than condoning the action, right, of all, it's all just like there isn't really a model of.


Any faith where crew people have gotten to stay be like fully seen and accepted in terms of doctrine? And then also where the faith to me feels like what I knew growing up, like there are these like very, you know, hippie, but that doesn't feel like like unfortunately for me, I just doesn't feel like.


Have you been to temple? I have not been to temple, and maybe that's all I have to tell you. I think the Temple IKAR in Los Angeles is like one of the greatest, greatest fucking places in the world.


And I actually just said to Mark. Yesterday, because we did we attended a Zoome memorial service, which like that's just, you know. What people have to do now, and it's so fucking weird. But Rabbi Sharon Brous is the rabbi from IKAR, and she was like leading the service and I said to Mark yesterday, I was like, if we went back to Los Angeles, I think I would want us to join IKAR.


And he was like, well, you're not. You're Catholic.


And I never got a bar mitzvah or anything.


And I was like, we would figure it out. It would be fine.


I think we would figure, you know, I mean, I, I, I think that that this beautiful first of all and.


Yeah, there's a lot left to explore. You know, one thing that I just think is, is. What continues to captivate my imagination is so I took like another course that was about women in prison during covid.


And it's like the people that have access to the information about what is happening in our prison system, many of those people are people of faith, like those are the people who go in and give classes and do outreach that and folks who do 12 step programs.


Right. So the other folks who are like breaching these boundaries and I think about like who gets to be there when someone during the service that you're talking about or who gets to be there when someone's sick and dying.


And that is what continues to captivate me. You know, it's that like there is we we want people.


We want to be connected and there are people who are able to go. Have sort of a boundaryless connection with others. Yeah, like show their badge and then they go in and they talk to women at the women's prison.


Yeah, and it's just they're under this, like, umbrella of, you know, a thing Jesus said or whatever, but like.


I want to get in there, too, so that's so so I'm curious as to how this will continue to unfold. I know I was going to say, are you starting your own religion? I was going to say, are you starting a church?


Because it seems like when people gatekeepers in religion, they're picking and choosing what exactly why we're not we're you know what we hate.


You know what Casey and I hate more than anything the fucking gatekeepers. We hate them.


So why could you not pick and choose just in the same way what serves you? And it sounds like your your you know, that old saying words without deeds, nothing. And it sounds like you're very interested in like a life of some service in a life of of activism and those kind of things. So like we need that all whatever.


I am just going to go back to what I said earlier, which is that, Burtie, I really do think Berdy would benefit from a community with some spirituality. So if you did start a church. You already got a parishioner, we might join you. Yeah, I went to temple once for my friends kids bar mitzvah and it was right before covid, right before covid. But it was like happening in other parts of the world.


And she gave such an incredible sermon. I mean, like truly like tears streaming down my face. And this was before anyone was like, it's coming for us. She was like, it's coming for us because like she talked about the Talmud and the roots of the trees and I fucking don't know, dude, but it was like about how that's like we're all connected. She talked about some forest where, like, the trees, like if one tree dies then then like so far away, super.


I'm not a pastor, OK? Like, oh no I'm not.


I am looking at you like OK, that's very funny. That's why you're the end of my book the the like epilogue to.


Oh shit. I have the craziest deja vu right now. I'm just telling you, busy that the epilogue to my book is this story this way, I'm like looking at you like, what are you saying to me? The epilogue to my book is the story where years ago I was performing in the basement of the Ace Hotel in New York like the midtown one.


And Reggie Watts was on that show before.


He was like he was just like a cool comic's comic at the time, but everybody thought he was the coolest, right? Yeah.


And he was sitting in the front row of this show on a couch.


And I was performing while I was performing.


I had this this visual experience. I had this, like, imagination moment where I felt like I was a tree and I was my roots were going down and they were connecting through the floor to all of the people in the show. And like, I was breathing through their mouths and they were breathing for mine. And it's that feeling of connection that I really love about standup.


And after the show, Reggie came up to me and said, like, that set was amazing.


I really love that set. And like, I think what my favorite part was, was like when you were a tree and you were like connected down through. But I hadn't said that on stage at all.


It was an a spiritual experience that I had that he named and said back to me. So are you telling me right now you just described to me the same thing, saying the exact same thing to me.


And we're all connected, Karen. And that and I guess what I'm trying to tell you is that I think that you need to go meet this rabbi.


OK, that's the three. These are that's the only it. Just with me that one time I had Rugy, then you ever heard anybody talk about these trees going down three times the park?


Well, this is very special anyway.


Well, I'm sweaty, so sweaty in a good way. I, I love that.


I know.


I really I also by the way, that's like the rabbi has been doing like Zoome things. And there's like a really incredible.


Sermon on grief, on collective grief and like what we're missing in the right in this time, that is fucking incredible.


But that. What she was saying on the dyas about the trees with the roots that was just at my friend's kids bar mitzvah, that was just like a random Saturday. No one was filming it, you know what I mean?


So I don't know if it exists anywhere. But like, it made such a huge like, I I've thought about it so much in the last year, something something is happening.


I mean, I will say that I'm having that experience again and again. I also I have like I just have had this wonderful year of like, yes, everything is terrible. And for many people that are not me, much, much worse. Yeah. Yeah. But what has been wonderful about this year is that I am like choosing connection with other people, which is something that for a long time, like from the outside, someone might think that a job of performing in front of people is a connected experience.


And it can be it can be that tree thing. But it's also very lonely and it's very a part, you know, to tell other people that they have to listen to you or charge them even. And you're like, this is a one way conversation.


And if you talk, I will kick you out, like I'm going to eviscerate you before you ask you calmly and then you will leave and you will not get your money back like that is that is somebody who is really having a hard time connecting with other people.


Like that's what I've learned about myself, is that like this is I'm so glad that I had this skill because I think I felt very unsafe when I was a younger person and I really needed to, like, be like, OK, these five minutes are mine and I talk and other people listen and I tell them I'm queer and I like, you know, I, I and people can see it and it's witnessed. And so I don't I'm not going to be murdered right now.


Like, it really was like kind of a life and death thing for me.


But then, you know, 20 years in, I'm like, I don't want to live like trapped like that forever, trapped in on the stage and everybody else.


You know, there's a moment where you, like, realize that your dream was to be speaking to thousands of people.


But then suddenly the camera pans around and you realize they're all friends with each other and they're all on dates and they're all going to go home and talk to each other. And you are fucking alone, you know, like it's not like. It's fucking whatever that, you know, Bradley Cooper movie, Libby, Bradley Cooper stars, I don't want to be Bradley Cooper. No. No, you don't.


No, I don't. And also, she should have left him, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. So, like, it should have never gotten to that point. Yes, I know. Cameron, I.


I want to say that I am I have been such a fan of yours for such a long time. I also find you to be just an exceedingly kind person.


I think that apart from like all the identity stuff, which is so, so important and I'm so glad that people that are facing those identity issues, I just think that you're you're an exemplary human. And I think that you're a really special messenger. And I think that your comedy has been ministry all along.


Whether you say it again, say it again. And I think that your comedy has been ministry all along for people that needed to that said to on, you know, particular things, myself included. And so I'm just so happy to see your face and so happy to get an opportunity to talk to you about all this really cool shit.


Yeah, me too. You know, Karen is also the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. Did you know that? Yeah.


I mean, it is. And also, like, I don't really believe in coincidence. So, like, this isn't weird at all. And it's like just makes perfect sense.


It makes sense. Exactly. Well, that's like my life is like should I just tell Cameron so she doesn't have to read my fucking gas. Yeah. Cameron on the day that I had been given at Planned Parenthood that my baby would be born, I was at the Vatican and Pope John Paul, through a series of fucking wild events, kissed my forehead. Why, yes. Wow. Yeah, wow, yeah. Wow. Yeah, and and that just made you feel like you are able to go on?


Well, of course it was like absolution. It was like everything that I. Like nothing short of the pope himself would have seriously, nothing short of the fucking pope himself would have made me feel OK.


And so, I mean, we should talk.


But I also went to an audience with JP, too. I mean, yeah, Janita is the real fucking deal. He yeah, he was. I heard him speak. It was like you believe he kissed you doing with many things.


I want to like talk, but I actually just hang out later. I like. Can we make a plan. Let's have a hang.


OK, this is this whole last like 20 minutes of just friendship.


Well, that's all we're in it for. You know, it's natural that we love.


But I do want to say, because we have a lot of parents that listen to our podcast, we have a lot of, you know, straight identifying this gender, women that listen as the parent of a queer child.


I think it's really important to, like, listen to these conversations and have some understanding. You don't have to then tell you just why people at home, you don't have to then tell your kid about it if you don't want to. I mean, like, they don't care.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Berdy just absolutely. Is just going to roll their eyes at me if I know. I know. I think that's I think that's I think that's super cool parenting, I really do. And I also there's just a lot of, like, interesting history stuff on the show also. I don't know. I'm pretty proud of it, to be honest. The there's like a pretty cool stuff on there.


It's really, really cool. It's such the podcast is Query again, you should definitely subscribe to it downtown that subscribe five, the things that are advertised on it.


And and just, you know, Cameron has a book, a special.


So many things that you can just be enjoying while you're home. And they're all just very, very high quality.


And I'm getting the book tomorrow. I'm going to my local realty seller.


They're very funny, but also a lot of things that you just kind of need to hear. And just a really, really big fan of you as a comedian and as a person. Yes, Metellus, this was.


Incredibly fun. And also, I'm a different person.


All right, that was Cameron, I love her, I love them, them, yeah, her, her. Cameron has them and her.


Yeah. There you go. She'd say, that's great, we can take we can tell multitudes, honestly, by a book is my. Gynecologist today that gave me that pap smear that I loved recommended a book called What's Your Pronoun Beyond He and She by someone named Dennis Barron. He, him, his that's Denis's pronouns, and I'm going to buy it tomorrow. And I. I'm very into it, nice, so I'll figure it out. I might be there as well.


I want to step on birdie shit I. Yeah, well, I think that, like, grammatically we're all there, right? That's right. But inside, emotionally, physically, who we are as a being, it's always evolving. So maybe one day you will find that to be the pronoun for you. Well. All I know. It's that we're all learning, we're all growing, we're all pivoting at every moment, every second of the fucking day and.


Our dear sweet Centera has some news that. She's going to share with us. Well, sorry, there's someone knocking at the door and they won't stop. Hold on, hold on, guys. Hold. And of course, of course, what you got, what you got? Is it chocolate or not? This is, I think from the we got a member up and Gallowgate nomination and I think that they said, oh, I got a bottle, a bottle of something.


I think that's what this is for. That's why they they wouldn't leave it outside because it's booze. Yeah.


There you go. Sorry. The announcement is that next the next podcast will be my last.


Not forever. Just for right now. This is. See you later. Not goodbye.


But we just wanted to let you guys know that I love you and tune in next week if you want to hear me talk about it.


Yeah, we're going to do a very special podcast next week. Here's the deal, G.A.. Very generously donated. Her time, energy, her talent, her love. Her wisdom to this show for the last. Since the summer, twenty seven episodes, yeah, yeah, since the summer and ended in the summer, covid Vibe's jobs were scarce.


Things weren't happening the way that they are currently shinta as a writer and a performer by trade. And these jobs just keep coming for our beloved.


I mean, really, they really do like that. Look in jobs right now.


They keep coming and they don't stop coming. I'm very blessed right now.


Yo, you're also blacklisted. Yes. Your hashtag you. Kizzie, I was going to say that. I was going to say hashtag plus and hashtag talented. Thank you. And you have to take these opportunities. But that being said, you don't want to spread yourself too thin.


And one thing that we all I we all i.e. me. I'm probably Casey, to really respect and love about you is the fact that you like, you know, your boundaries and limitations and you're able to say like this might be too much.


I need to look out for myself. I need to look out for my work. I need to look out for my quality of work and my quality of life. And it might be too much for the time being to continue to devote a couple hours a week to doing this podcast, because I have like multiple other jobs that I'm now committed to in this other area that I'm very, very committed to being successful at.


We worked really hard to bring you guys this podcast, but everybody here worked really hard. And you guys deserve people who aren't exhausted. And that's just like how it is right now. I have two full time writing jobs and I love you. And then I hope you love yourself enough to know when you're spreading yourself really thin. So I hope that that's something you take away from this, that I still love you. But like, we got to take care of this body, this new body.


You have to piece for a while. You got a piece out for a while. You got to like go do a thing and drink that Veuve Clicquot.


That was just I just I wanted to show you guys what it was because I know that. Yeah, yeah. I'll be knowing what stuff is. I don't know. One time I got a bottle of this one, I got a job like my first job ever. My first job ever. I got it. How do you pronounce it busi Veuve Clicquot.


So yeah it's yeah. I can tell by the. Yeah yeah. I worked at a place I thought you guys just for you at home there was like we just saw a flash of yellow and I got the move. Click Oh yeah. So I got it. All of that. But I, I didn't know that it's like a decent price probably like anywhere from like eighty seventy two hundred dollars for this bottle. It's the most expensive thing I'd ever gotten for my first job.


And I put it on my desk and like the person who like owned the production company was like whose is this. And I was like mine.


And they were like oh like he was like this gift. And I was like, why are you so surprised? And I looked up. The price was like a hundred dollars even. I was like, oh, mix is different to be like, why do you have this expensive ship desk.


So I, I know what this is, but this is my second bottle ever and five years santero when I and when I got married to Matthew Bingham, my former boss David Letterman very generously sent a case of Dom Perignon, which was a very nice gift. And I saved it for the rehearsal dinner because I was like a lot of my family will be coming for the rehearsal dinner and and I love champagne. So I was like, my family probably doesn't get fancy champagne a lot.


I'll put it on ice. I'll serve it at the rehearsal dinner and it'll be nice for my family. Like, that's really what I truly was thinking.


Like, yeah, give my family the experience of Dom Perignon. And then I overheard my aunt saying it tasted like dirt and I almost took it away from her.


Yeah. She's like, you don't get to keep this. You don't get to have it.


So I don't think this tastes like dirt, but I got that that's where I had to go, you guys. But that's what's going on, you guys. That is what's up.


So little bit of change, which is hard for us because we'll miss you because it's so fun to just talk to you every week like pod cast aside. We will eventually we'll miss you, but you'll be back and like and then and the group chat is alive and well.


The Group Chatterley. Yeah. And then and you know, and hopefully, like when we have some of our other mutual friends on, you'll listen in and weigh in in the group chat on how you thought, how you think we did and you know all that stuff.


I'll have notes. I have notes. I guarantee that you will have some, but we will miss you.


But also, I fully respect your ability to advocate for yourself a no. Like what you need to do a good job at your other jobs and.


And like. Also, I don't know, I told my therapist that you were leaving this week and she was like, That's right.


I believe I was on board. I like as like Lita was like, yeah, I get it.


That makes sense. So shout out to our therapist, baby shower therapist for, like, understanding and like getting it all.


And as soon as Lita was like, yeah, that makes sense.


I was like, I know it does.


And I even though I had said it really did, then I really understood that I really felt it.


But I do love you, Shinta. I really do. And I'm so grateful. Next week is going to be just a full Shantaram episode and then I'll get teary that I'm not going to get teary right now. I can't I'm not going to do it now. OK, I'll get to I'll get teary next week when we're going to do a whole Shantaram episode and we're going to go through all the fucking shit.


I don't know. I don't know. But guys, also, listen, if you have suggestions, we have a bunch of people lined up that are going to come in.


But if you have ideas of people that you would like for us to invite to be a co-host for a day, guest, guest, guest host, I'm not looking for Ryan Seacrest. And no also chance here is irreplaceable, so. You know, what do you think? Yeah, so we're just we're just going to continue to have a fun time and introduce you to other friends, and I totally can't wait for Santero to text us about how we're doing.


And also we'll come back how she's doing. Yeah. Keep up with what she's doing, but also come back. Yeah, I'm going to come back some. Yeah. You're right.


Yeah, there's already somebody that I like want to come back for, I mean, like, sorry, I mean, you guys, but I love them and I know I'm curled up in a ball.


I can't even Gina and I are curled up, like, in a little ball. OK, so anyway, so next week is our all she Tyra all the time. Celebration, spectacular celebration. It'll be a vibe. I'll wear my Angela Bassett shirt. Night of a Thousand Heroes.


It's Night of a thousand centera. That's two minutes. Comedy Central. It's a Comedy Central roast of Here at Jackson Educare, hosted by James Franco. Oh no. Hosted by Adam from the Future I like. Oh they're interested. But the guy from the future told them to kill themselves. He knows he has people. He knows how to roast people and food. All right, guys. All right.


I love you. We love you. We love you.


Next week going to be fun. It's going to be OK. I'm sad I might cry, I'm sure. Well, not really, but not really. Not like there's a chance that you won't. That's weird to pretend to be so rude.


I didn't even you know, we didn't even fucking get into is the end of Girls by VAVA.


We don't even like because I got so I was so on the like pap smear, like maternal mortality, we could do it online. I want to talk about it.


Yeah, I might, because that'll be your gift to here to run it down for her next week.


You know, I love centralists. My favorite thing ever. Has been doing girls fight every day, like literally the best thing I've ever been in. I'm not kidding. That's great. That's awesome.


My entire career.


Led up to this moment I was in Girls five Eva Xiaowei Goldsberry a couple of weeks ago, I turned around to me, Paul Appellant's or braless, when we were doing so bad that our dancing and singing was like.


You guys, we are killing. I'm like, oh, no, you turn off your.


No one thinks we're good here. It's not true. We were really good. We were really good. I can't wait. Go with my new baby. And you guys, it's it's my favorite show. I loved it so much. I can't wait to tell you. I can't believe I didn't even get into it. I got so sidetracked.


We started talking about a lot of important things, a lot of the important stuff.


And we can talk about it next week and we will. All right. I love you guys. Gino's curled up ready for bed. Cricket is upstairs. I can hear her waiting for me to come read her. Rocket goes to school and, oh, had her, I love her. It's getting late out there. It's late. It's nine 13. Next week is last week, so we love you, email us. Visit us on Instagram, talked to us all week and then you have any G.A. specific questions.


I should speak now.


He is email now or hold it until Shinjiro comes back sometime in the future.


Busy doing her best at Gmail dot com. You can email us if you have questions for you and into your. And we love you guys and we'll, we'll see you next week.


It's going to be fun. Have a good week. Love you. Bye bye. Bye.