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I had a realistic dream in which I was hanging out with Harry's pals, Bertie has turned me into staying like a real a real standard.


Everybody, welcome. It's busy Phillips is doing her best with a. Jackson case, U.S., Hello. How are you?


All of us collectively. And you have a glass of wine. It's a rarity, I know. Yeah, and I haven't been drinking since the strep throat incident, right, 20, 21. But tonight is a night, snowy night in New York where we made frozen pizzas in the pizza oven.




Well, because the ovens in this rental suck and we made these we made these cupcakes for Harry Styles birthday shirts and like, you know, we had such a great oven situation in our home in Los Angeles and I'm going to cry.


OK, you guys, you know those Wolf? Wolf doesn't fuck around. It's true. Does it look like fifty five minutes to cook these fucking cupcakes? That's not right. That's too low. What is it, a start like fast? That's why we were doing cupcakes. Yeah, I don't want to put that brand on blast. No, no, but but yes, it's funny.


New Yorkers are not known for being big cooks. Yeah. I mean, dweller's in New York, a lot of people store their clothing in their ovens in New York City. Well, mastering our clothing.


I mean, guys, you know what I mean?


I mean, right now, today we're storing our clothing in the gigantic wine fridge that takes up half the time where you go, who the fuck?


Listen, even if you did have. Three hundred bottles of wine. Let's just say you were like a wild person who fuckin loves wine and you have 300 bottles.


Yeah, that's like it's Jim. Why would you ever need 300 bottles of wine? A, b. Why are they in the middle of your living room? Why can't they just live downstairs in the basement?


It seems like maybe that person's like a collector and they're, like, proud of their collection, I guess. And like like I look like to gaze upon it.


I looked into how much it would cost because, you know, like I mean, most people know this. I just hadn't rented in a long time. I've been Mark and I bought that house so many, so many so many years ago.


So I guess, like the general rule is, you just have to return the house in the condition that you like, found it in.


So I legit looked into how much it would cost to remove the giant ass wine fridge and then have it put back. It's prohibitively expensive. Oh, my God. You're like Prince, you know. When did you ever hear that story about Prince, like, rented? You know, I haven't. It's OK.


I'm going to tell you, Prince rented this this basketball player, Carlos Boozers House, and I don't know about it. Yeah. And he just like, took out all the carpets and made a beauty salon and one of the rooms, like, installed sinks and painted everything purple.


And I believe I believe he changed the address to like a number that he felt was better for him.


Wait, how could you change an address? Also, there's a ghost on your screen just like, oh, yeah, that's really weird. What is that? It is a princess. Princess. Prince. Yeah. Prince does not want me talking about this, but. Yeah, but Carlos Boozer was like, I'm going to sue you, Prince.


You ruined my house. And then Prince was like, let's just handle this. Like Gentlemen, I'll write you a check.


Yeah. Also Prince probably made your house better, but you can change the address. When I used to work for Curtis 50 Cent Jackson, I went to this.


We need more of those stories. Yes, I went to his mansion. I don't know if he sold it formally. Mike Tyson's a mansion in Connecticut. And when you pull up, I don't even remember the neighborhood. It's like some boozy, rich neighborhood in Connecticut. But you pull up and I don't even remember the numbers, but it was like three twenty eight.


Three thirty three. Thirty two fifty. So he like changed in like all the neighbors were like supposedly mad because all the numbers were right. And he just was like my house address is fifty. And they were like, well you paid. And that was his address at everybody else's address was different. So the fact of the matter is, I've said this before, there are rules, but if you can pay, they're not rules. They're just rules for poor people.


They're fines for rich people. They're rules for poor people.


That's that's the way it is, I guess, sometimes. Well, guys, let's start off way let's just start off the podcast, right? Sure. Chinchorro, what are you doing your best at this week, handling my Gerd ocurred comes to get you.


I got a new prescription. I'm drinking warm water. I'm looking into going to a chiropractor to readjust my stomach like you got fantastic. My gerd is out of control.


How are those boobs doing. How are you feeling. Boobs are feeling great. They are. I can I just got officially I can work out and I was like he was like you can live whatever you want kind of, you know.


And I was like here's the thing. I think I'll be lifting that much shit, but I appreciate the permission.


Oh so yeah, that's what I'm doing. My best effort is going into the year trying to figure out a way to get off these gerd medications. I want to be medication free. So that's where I'm at.


I feel like that's great. I, I have some I have I have like a holistic thing to say. Oh yeah. Tell me what's up.


Because I went through a really brutal number over the summer. And then right when we started doing the podcast, I was having really bad acid reflux.


Yeah. Was I when we started or not really, probably, let's say that I got probably you were going for a lot of different things, so I just assumed that I was going to go. It was a part of the whole amalgam of stuff.


OK, but but truly, somebody said this to me. And I do think that it's worth taking like just a moment at some point not not right now and like, really thinking about it. But is there something that you're having a hard time swallowing or something that you don't want to say you don't want to face?


Oh, yeah. We me and my partner talked about this because a lot of sensitive people are sick right now, like their skin is out of control. Like I have a friend who was like I just my skin's been so wild and like now I'm allergic to like every cent. So he was like, I have to, like, use baby lotion. And he was like, it's out of control. So like and then I called my best friend and I was like, how are you feeling?


She was like, I'm sick like that. Like cough, cough, sick, but like my skin hurts, my stomach hurts.


And I think that we're all a lot of sensitive people are doing a lot of purging in their body, whatever that might be. But yeah, it was like if you're having, like a skin thing, it's like you're getting rid of stuff. And if you have, like, acid reflux stuff, you have to take focus what's around you and what you are putting in your body. And that's not just like what you eat, but like your surroundings.


So you're abusing all.


But I also think I also think paying attention to like. Emotional things that like. You are holding in that you need to say like specifically like things that you need that need to come up and out of your mouth.


Yeah. OK, well, for us all to be true, it's true, it's true, and maybe you at home, if you're suffering from.


I always like to look at what it corresponds to, like emotionally when you get a hold of something. And I. Because who is that? What does that woman's name do you guys know who wrote that book? And she's got the whole crazy list online and it's like sinuses, marital issues.


Oh, I don't know, like everything up I'm in.


We look it up. Yeah, I'm going to look it up right now. Well, I'm going to muted because, you know, my.


Keyboard clacking, clacks That's so sinuses are marital issues or that was just an example.


No, I think they are. Oh, wow. Wow. All right. I'm in a I'm in a fight. Not a fight, I always say Marks, Mark and I have had a few discussions. He's like, you have to stop saying we're in fights about stuff when we literally have just like had a nice discussion about a thing. And then you're like. We're in a fight. No, I'm just texting with Grigoryan because. Well, let's just get to what I'm doing my best at this week.


OK? Our show is wrapping up. And, you know, I'm not really supposed to or allowed to talk about much of what's what we're doing on the show, but I have to say, guys, there's a pole dancing situation for my character, Summer. And. I am doing my best at pole dancing. I'm really and like super committed to, like, working really hard to get good at it so that there's no doubles.


Yeah. You know, it looks like we're good at it.


No, I'm doing so good at it, but like also, you know me, I only want to do it if I'm going to be the best, right. I think that that's a cancer thing because I don't want to try. I mean, like, not try anything new. I want to try things new, but I don't want anybody to ever see me until I've done it for six months. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a I think it's largely a trait that a lot of women share.


Oh, absolutely. Anyway, um, so I've been really working hard.


And I'm just texting with Eric because of this snow day that happened today. But the like, just so we all are on the same page here. Like pull work is incredibly athletic and real fuckin intense and. As this is a Hollywood break, sort of, but sometimes in television shows, they will write things in them and they won't really think about. The reality of what it will mean on the day. And so I. Immediately, like I can look at someone on a I'm super athletic and I'm sure they look at me and they're like, nobody does that like that every day.


I'm sure she can, like, swing on a pole. And the show runner, Meredith, was like, what do you think about pole dancing? I'm like, I would love to try that. That sounds awesome. But sometimes on TV shows what ends up happening because you're just crunched for time and whatever it is that they're like, OK, they wrote this thing and you have exactly three hours to learn how to do it, which in this case was just not going to fly.


Because I also like I don't know, I just hate the idea of like a body double doing a thing that like maybe I know I could figure out how to do. So anyway. I've been working really hard. I've been training, I've been paying for my own like classes on the side. The studio has been paying for me to have classes. I got this teacher who I love, Yumiko.


I like Googled New York, pulled the whole thing and found Foxy Fitness.


Oh, and Yumiko is so rad and so strong and like, I loved it. She and as soon as I met her first, I was training with Hannah, this woman who is was awesome and is like. She's like an acrobat. Yeah, she looks like an acrobat. Yeah, like she looks like she's in Cirque du Soleil. And she's and she's but she's also like super tiny and can, like, bend completely backwards, like, and basically make her body flat against each other and.


I believe she's Russian and like any time she I took my first two lessons with her, you know, mask's socially, just instead alcohol wipes the whole thing. And every time I was, I would be like, oh, God, I can't get this. She'd be like, I know.


And I'm like, condescending. I loved her, but I was like, really, like like, oh, I know, honey, it's hard.


I was like, well, but Yumiko is like so dope because she's super into the like the competitive.


Oh yeah. Everyone should go watch the championship. Sometimes I just like watch the the person who's like the best pole dancer in the world and like America, the world or whatever.


And it's like I should try to do something with my core. It's so cool. It's amazing. You I think you would really love it.


Well, now I'm getting there. Going to be anyway, we were supposed to film it tomorrow. We're supposed to film my whole thing, basically.


Thank you, Eric. Basically, the snow day really screwed everyone, you know. I mean, yeah, and and so then they were like, we can't have the pole brought to the stage with the teacher tomorrow. We were supposed to film it tomorrow. Now, that got pushed to Wednesday. I need to like I couldn't do it today, like, run it to run my routine today. So I need to do it tomorrow at some point.


And so because of this snowstorm, blizzard that I've been in, which has been really beautiful, really.


Yeah. They're really enjoying the day today.


I've had like a really weird day because they found out a friend of mine. Oh, no, I'm going to write. I found out a friend of mine passed away this morning, noon, and then and it was like, I got the text right.


As we were like literally all suited up to go as a family to like go out into the snow, and so it was just sort of like surreal.


I knew that she had been I knew that it was I had known for a couple months that it was like imminent. But, you know. But still. But still. But yeah. And and so then I but then I went out and the kids were so happy in the snow and like. It's just been a wild yeah, yeah, time, and so then anyway, back to the pole dancing. And then we can get whatever, because this is what I'm doing my best.


So. I was just like, I need that poll. I need that poll tomorrow all day on the stage so that any time I have a break, I can, like, run down, strap on those eight inch heels and do it. And then I got word that like because there's a snow day in the budget and it's like just too expensive or whatever. And I was like, fuck it, dudes, I'll just pay for it. Like, I don't care.


Me getting better on the pole is more is more important to me now than money.


And and and Eric was like, that's insane. You can't do that. And I was like, Eric, what's insane is that if I don't do that at 11 p.m. because we have a later call because of the snowstorm, what's insane is that if I don't do that at 11 p.m., I will go to Foxe Fitness for an hour, you know what I mean?


So, like. Either way, it's insane. Yeah, is all I'm saying. So anyway, I guess they worked it out good. I mean, ultimately, it's going to be on camera and like, if I was got like the the precedent has been set. Like Hustler's set the price. That's right. Jennifer Lopez did it. You can't just be getting on the pole all willy nilly in 2010.


That's that's right. But also, like I'm shinta, I'm fully doing like an upside down. It's like I'm like really fucking well, that thing's really doing it. And I'm really proud of myself and I'm like proud of my commitment to my athleticism. And like, even though this is a thing that. You know, in previous versions of my life and career, like, for instance, if this had been written on, say, Dawson's Creek, I would have been like.


Showing up on the day and I would have been like, so who's going to do this? You know what I mean?


And I just like if I'm going to act at all or be a part of anything at all at this point. I just want it to be the best and the most fun. And I don't know. I just feel like I'm proud.


I'm really proud of I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of my commitment to the Pole.


And now I kind of want to be a competitive pole dancer. You should go. Thanks. I really have it in me. I mean, probably. Do I watch it?


Well, she was also saying, which I think is so cool that like, you know, as opposed to so many other sports and and competitive things, pole dancing is one of those things where, like, you can get into it at any age. Yeah. There's no like she has a student that she's been training for two years, just two years. And she just placed first in a competition like a nationwide competition. And she's 50, said, whoa, whoa.


Yeah, it's amazing. I so want to be good at dancing, but I know that I'm not going to do anything to make that happen for myself.


Well, I think the first step would be that you take a class. Yeah, I'm not going to do that right now, though.


OK, I know. I know. I mean, not right, but I've got to live vicariously through you and then, like, keep doing peloton like three times a week.


I think that's awesome. Maybe you can develop like a peloton routine.


That's sexy to me. Yeah. It's going to be a long time for this. Looks sexy on the.


But I always look like a guy. I'm always like also one of my legs is obviously stronger than the other.


So like when I pedal, like I'm like I think it'll be like if you ride spin or peloton or whatever, like one of them is like creating more power than the other side. So like, I got to get the left leg strong, we got to figure something out.


It's always the left leg. My left leg is just not strong. It's not that you can work up in space for sure.


Like it's only when I was in my so in my heyday of spinning. I was, you know, but now at this point, I don't think I'm probably back with you on the beginner class, like that's the thing. Like it's been it's all so specific, right? I'm looking for a hair tie. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I know. I make too much.


Casey, what are you doing? Your best shot this week.


Oh, what am I doing? My best shot this week. Um. I don't know, I mean, I just realized today would have been my dad's birthday, so which was kind of weird.


I didn't like I didn't mark that occasion. Yeah, it just surprised me. So I've just been sort of like thinking about my dad.


Happy birthday to him. Do you find because I have lots of friends that. Have passed, yeah, and I do find celebrating their birthdays or thinking about them on their birthday is always is like a little bit gentler to your person than celebrating, like the day they passed away. You know what I mean? Yeah.


Yeah. I mean, it was he died suddenly. And like to be honest, I probably couldn't. Well, I guess it was on Valentine's Day, I was going to say I couldn't probably even remember, like, the exact day, because which I was I was just telling one of our mutual friends he would totally understand because he wasn't very literal about dates. He wasn't he wasn't very good at keeping dates himself like IRA when he died.


I wrote that like I remember I think when I turned 18, he called me and was like, happy, sweet 16.


And I was like, like a couple days late. And that was like one.


It's not today, but also I'm 18, but thank you. So I think he would and he wouldn't mind so much. But yeah, it's nice to you know, it's nice to sort of think about him.


And I guess like I was thinking about I'm kind of glad he's not living through this, like, weird time because I don't know how he would have managed that. I mean, is that a weird thing to say? No, I'm just glad someone doesn't have to put up the shit.


My granny passed away in twenty sixteen before Trump was elected, so she got to deal with Obama as a president. And I am so happy because I think that she she wasn't doing super great in those last couple of years.


But yeah, I don't think she could have made four more years. So I'm happy she got out before this fucking shit. So like I literally thought that had been like if she was going to go, like, I'm not mad at it.


Oh, wait, same I think about that with my grandfather too, because.


He was like a liberal dude from Chicago, like a union guy. And I think about how crazy Trump would have made him. Yeah.


You know, like I remember going to his apartment in the like, you know, assisted living place that he lived in at the end of his life. And like, he would always have, like, clippings up of what was happening, like in politics and like different things that were going on.


And he, like, kept track of all that stuff. And I feel like he would have lost his punch.


Yeah, sure.


I don't even I don't even know my what my dad's politics were, to be honest. Really? Yeah.


I mean, I, I know what I think his character was like, what I think his character as a person was, but I don't know what his politics were. I do know that I think his wife is like his. You know, his. What what do you call that when your husband dies without. Yeah, his widow. I think she's like a conservative voter, but I don't know if she was like a Trump supporter.


We're not like we're not super close. But I just think, like, my dad just had such a hard time, he had a hard time, like getting a job, keeping a job, those kind of things. Like you just had like a very wandering spirit is that that's a nice way to say about him. So I just think, like having to live through something like this and like where it's hard for anyone to, like, sort of figure out what their path is.


I feel like, yeah, this would have knocked him for a loop.


You know, you probably wouldn't have worn a mouse, Casey.


I don't know. It's it's funny. Like, my dad was like a really smart, really super creative guy. He was really funny. He was kind in a way, like he was kind.


I mean, he he remembered your birthday and then called you because there are those people who forget. Yeah. They're like, fuck.


Oh, well, for him to be like I remember it don't matter what day. So like I just doing our best born. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. He's he was like the epitome of like doing his best. And it wasn't always easy. We didn't have an easy relationship.


Yeah. But I mean he was he was an interesting and nice guy, just maybe not like the traditional dad that everybody.




I always say most people have a lot of people have really parents who are really nice people, but not always they don't always have the parent part now, but they're really good people. Yeah. And I feel like.


Well, listen. Parenting is nearly goddamn impossible. Yeah, you know, just your parents are people we've talked about that before. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean and like, that's what's so tricky. And like and there are depending on your generation and like what you know, there are lots of different messages that sort of permeate culturally that inform how everyone parents like collectively. Right.


I mean. Well, to be to be perfectly frank, he hardly parented me.


But like, he he helped create me, but he. Yeah, he wasn't my mom did did the lion's share of the parenting work when they were married and, you know, after after they were not married. But he was a good person. He was entertaining. He was super creative and you know, and so. Yeah. So it's always kind of interesting to like look at my kids. And I was like looking at Lincoln and he was he was eating toast with his dinner last night.


And I was like, that's just like your grandfather would eat like a big stack of toast with his dinner.


And you like apples just like him and you like potato chips just like him, which is a weird thing to be like. I mean, who doesn't like potato chips? But, you know, it it's kind of like weird and old fashioned for a kid to walk around chewing on an apple, I feel like. But that, you know, just little things remind me of him. So that's like what I'm doing my best today, just being, like, appreciating my dad for who he was.


It's really sweet. That's awesome. Somebody and I think it was Casey. Why am I going to cry this whole time? It's a whole day. But I remember you once gave me the best parenting advice. If it wasn't you, let's just pretend that it was OK, which was just like. When you're struggling with a kid. You have to remember to like. Just love them for them, for who they are, as opposed to like who you wish they could maybe be, even in like even in like a sort of you don't even know that you're wishing that they could be different, you know?


I mean, like you are. Yeah, kind of. Because you're because you're behaving toward them in such a way that like. Is that because you want them to be not who they are, you want them to be different? Right. And I think that, like. That really changed me as a parent a few years ago when you when you told me that and it really, really helped me tremendously with with Bird, that means a lot to me.


I think that that's one thing I can say for my dad is like, I mean, parents out there. And Shinta, this is one of the reasons I reasons I appreciate so much.


When you talk about your parents and how they raised you, is that I think for the most part, parents have like expectations, like involuntary expectations of what your kid is going to be like. Like you already have their whole life. I did. I have their whole life imagined, like this is what they're going to be like and this is what they're going to like and even like what they're going to look like. And none of it is true.


They just come out and they're who they're going. They're who they are, you know.


I mean, Berdy began by defying my expectations.


I always in my head dreamed that I would give birth to like a fuzzy little blond like baby that looked just like me, you know?




And then Bird comes out and it's like covered in thick black hair, like from their head to their toes.


Like, Birdie had so much hair that I was concerned about their hairline beginning. Yeah.


Because they lose it like like it. Birdie didn't have the hairline that they have now, like it was like their hair like went down the middle of the floor.


Yeah, yeah. Yes. And I was like, oh no, this is how I'm going to have to. Wow, I love it.


I guess I'm going to just have to love this. I'm going to have to love it, that hair.


But yeah, right from the jump they defy your expectations.


And so the sooner that you can just like give up like that, that vision of what you had of like what they're going to be, I feel like the better just to be like, well, let me OK, you you've spoken child in whatever way, whatever age you are about who you want to be.


So let me stop trying to like. Get you to do all this other stuff that is really beside the point and help you be like the best kid that you want to be, and that's one thing I can say for my dad is that he always just thought that I was really cool.


You know, he was like, it's so cool that you're funny. It's so cool that, you know, that you like to paint or whatever. You know, he never was like he didn't give a shit about my grades or, you know, that's it right there.


Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's a good thing to remember, too.


And when we all think about our parents like to love them as they were and not as we wished. Yes, they had been. Yes. Right, yeah, yeah, outside of, like, abuse, guys, listen, if you have abusive fucking I'm serious, I'm serious.


Like, only, you know. Right. Like and and if you, you know, suffer trauma and abuse in your home, you don't have to. My heart breaks for you. Yeah. And you don't have to fucking forgive them or do what you do what you need to do. Right. But that being said, most of us who just had like parents that were.


Florida, because all parents are going to flood, you know, if your parents were we're just like within reason flawed, you got to like learn.


One of my co-workers said something this week that was, like, really cool. She was like my kid. She was like her kid was like 13 or something and was upset with her. And she was like, I've never raised a daughter before. So why did you give me, like, a break? She was like, I'm really trying and we're both doing our best. But like, you have to remember, you're not my sixth kid. You're not my fourth daughter.


I have never, ever raised a 13 year old girl before. So we're just going to have to figure this out. And I was like, damn, that is like such a way to like, you're a human, but like, yeah, you might have two kids, but, like, I've never raised you before, so.


Well, there even even if you had six kids. Yeah. Not number five is different to number two. Yeah. I was the only kid and. Yeah. And that's why I do like I always want to make it a point to say that like my dad was gregarious, he was a talented musician, he had beautiful handwriting.


He, you know, he was really creative and funny and made me laugh it just like he just probably wasn't cut out to be a dad. And that's OK. You know, he was super young when I was born. We lived apart for way more years. Like, I never even my dad was stationed in Thailand when I was an infant. So, like, I remember like meeting him, like going to pick him up when he finally came back stateside and like, he brought me like a little stuffed dog and a bag of peanuts or something.


And I remember being, like, afraid of him because I never met him in person before. But yeah, we were only together for like seven years.


So, you know, but he's a good guy. OK, to cry, Casey. No. It is high, no. I wish you'd had more time with your dad. Me, too, but also. Yeah, it just, you know, you just never know, and I I've been thinking a lot of so many people are like going through that right now, just losing their parents very suddenly and.


And my heart goes out because it's really, you know, even if you have, like a tough relationship with your parent to just be like, oh, fuck, they're not here.


You know, I was thinking today about my friend who passed away and. She has two kids who are really little, if not real little, not really, not really little, I guess what's really little baby?


Yeah, kids. But she has two kids. Kids. And I was thinking about them and about my own kids and and I was thinking about this thing that Michelle often has said to me. Life is either too short or too long. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Like you're either just like that where you're like, Oh God, when I worked in the nursing home, this woman, Jessica, was like a hundred.


And I want to say she was like 106 years old.


That's too was like she was a single lady who had lived an amazing life. She traveled a lot and she, you know, she had money. And so she traveled a lot and had adventures. But she never settled down. She never got married. She never had children. And I would go and sit on her bed. She would she would like make lace in. She she couldn't see anymore, but she would like make lace by feel and.


Yeah. Amazing.


And she and I would bring her like little spearmint leaves she love like that old lady candy like those gummies.


Oh yeah. Candy I love those. Oh well I genuinely love. Yes. Yes.


So I bring her those and she would make lace and just chitchat with me and she did say one time I spent so much of my life being afraid that I would die too soon and now I'm afraid that I will never die.


And then I was like, Jessica, are you asking me to kill you?


Oh, my God. And she was like, no, no, no, I would never do that to you. But for real, it's been a while. I thought, what would you have done if she said yes?


I would have probably just hoped that she forgot about to. I pretended I had something else to do. I don't think I'd be able to do it.


No, no, no, I couldn't do it. I do know that I don't want to live to be one hundred and six. I do. I don't think I'm already one hundred and six. Maybe I didn't realize I'm tired as hell. Give me like a hot eighty five and I'm a piece about this bitch. That's eighty five to young Ginger. We need you longer. Maybe ninety two. One hundred and six. Absolutely the fuck. Now I'm putting it out in the universe right now.


I don't want to live a hundred and six years. Yeah I do.


I'm putting it into the universe.


I guess you can have my guys have it. Yeah I think I will probably think just that. Um yeah. I think I will get that pole dancing up. Honestly, guys, it is a sight to behold and we shall see it.


I can't wait to see it. The bruises on my fucking legs. Yeah, are not. To be masra, I don't I don't even know. I don't know what to say about the. There are so gross. It's amazing.


No, Jenolan. What are you doing in such?


She's, like, loved the snow today. Rickett and I made a little. Thing in the back, it was like a legit blizzard. Yeah, it's blizzard, you're like the third person. Well, I had a bunch of Zoom's today and like two people showed me the snow, like New York, like like don't give a shit about anything. But today, two people were like, look at this.


And I was like, wow, it's a lot and a lot. No, it was insane. We walked we went out into the streets just because I wanted to see. Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah. I've never been in. All right. Now I'm eating a cookie. Got.


Just don't read the reviews. People are people mad about me eating. I mean, occasionally people mention it. Well, you know what?


You guys try to fucking do all the shit I do in a day, and you managed to get in fucking eating as well. I've had it.


I'm doing my fucking best. And sometimes my best is that I got to eat a goddamn cookie while I'm recording this podcast, because by the time it's over, it'll be too late.


Yeah. Yeah. I heard you're trying to wait until you're one hundred and six.


I'm not going to read the things people say that are mean.


I know. That's why. Why would I do that? Don't read people. They're mostly nice. They're like ninety nine point nine percent nice.


I don't, I've never read that. Not one. I will never read one. I just I also have been like not on Twitter. I like got off it like I didn't delete it. I deleted it from my phone because like it was just making me mad all the time.


So I was just like by so I know that I'm not going to I cannot read any reviews because at least on Twitter, like if I write something and somebody like me to me, I'll be like, well, I invited this because I did I did say some rude shit, but like on a podcast, it's just like I'm just existant. I don't want nobody commenting.


But yeah, I mean, guys, for better or for worse, we're basically just doing this for ourselves, you know what I mean?


I'm OK, guys. It's true.


Let's get into some other people doing their best. Well, first of all, it's Black History Month.


You got to get that John Lewis voting rights.


Yes. Passed getting tower. That's what we're doing. Yes.


That's why we're doing this this month. And then bye black. Bye bye. And then I also like to say, just send your black friends twenty dollars reparations, give it to them.


Just be like just be like is hard. I know you're having a hard time here is twenty dollars and they'll be like, thank you white lady.


I'm sending 20 bucks to a friend of mine.


I think sending flowers is lovely. Yeah. I think people enjoy that. I'm going to post on my Instagram. Maybe I'll just put it in my in my permanent link. I think I will all the because Valentine's Day is coming up. All the black. It's a it's not like a it's not. I'm sure there are others but it's a very, very comprehensive list of all the black owned florists around the country.


Oh yes. So I was going to put it I'll put it in my like in my profile thing.


But, you know, I'm I'm a real flower girl. Yeah. Yeah.


So but it was so funny because Emily baby found the list and sent it to me and I was like, these are all the people I worked hard.


And she was like, I figured I figured anyway.


Yeah, let's get the Voting Rights Advancement Act Athletica. I believe Harriet Tubman is going to get on that twenty. Yeah. Yeah.


I don't care about that as much I know you know. Well I mean like I should say, like if I got to see a face on a twenty like Andrew Jackson is not my first choice.


So say to Harriet Tubman, but also like if I don't have any money, it doesn't matter who's on it. So give it to us again. I say, where's my fucking money government? As soon as you put her face on it, I want you to send it out to the people so they could see it.


So like like, OK. I think the government also is doing like a bunch of symbolic shit, like when everybody like knelt down and can take cloth, I was like, but where's my fucking money? So that's like where I'm at all the time. I was like, I would prefer zero symbolism and actual money forever, but I'll take this for now.


I have a question genuinely. Yeah. Because, you know, the Housing Rights Act super, I mean, there's so much fucked, fucking fucked, fucked history that's been perpetrated on specifically black Americans in this country. Right.


So. In an event like. An ideal scenario, what does reparations look like to you from the government? Is it land ownership?


Is it it's money, it's therapy. And that's a start, because I think one of the things, too, about people talking about reparations is that it's like, well, we didn't get any money. It's like, OK, like I think one of the things that's been really interesting about it is like we don't have any generational wealth and right where it is, it's like after slavery, first of all. Also fuck Abraham Lincoln, like, let's get the history right.


OK. He was trying to keep the union together and more white people were for abolishing slavery than were for not abolishing slavery. The union was very powerful and he chose the side of power. If the powerful side was a confederacy, we'd have a very different America. And also he's quoted talking about how like between white people and black people, if he had to choose who he thought was superior, it was white people and that's the way it should be.


So what, Abraham Lincoln to go fucking fuck him, right?


Well, he did get shot. Yeah. The guy I mean, he's got nothing to do with me but fucking.


But they're like, yeah, but reparations, it's it's about what you can do in this country. Right.


And a lot of what's going to happen is like a lot of white people are going to be like, well, I don't have anything.


No one, I'm going to say this. You're not having anything.


Is white people's fault, the governor's fault and also your ability to get something is higher than our ability to get something. So even though like schools. Right. Which they did redlining or whatever, and the GI bill's right. The soldiers came home. My grandfather went to World War Two and he didn't get shit right. So, like, come home.


And then they gave all those white men, the black soldiers didn't get were not included in the GI Bill and they did not get right.


I'm just clarifying for people listening. So they did not get, like, you know, free school, free university, no free house.


So like what I said, free house. It's like the bank was told that they can approve loans for any soldiers that came back or anybody because fucking anybody who wanted to get a house, they'd approve loans for as long as the houses weren't in these red areas. That's why it's called redlining. You know, all the red areas were all black neighborhoods. So you fast forward till now, all those neighborhoods still don't have what they need. And then we base the money that goes to schools off of how much houses are worth and who got loans for nice houses.


So it's all like this is all just because of what happened after reconstruction, like after slavery was over, like they should have gave us money, but they gave Abraham Lincoln, gave former slave owners money to replace the money of their slaves.


So like, it's all rooted.


So when I say I want reparations, I want therapy because every black person in this country is traumatized and I want cold, hard cash money in the fucking, because it's not even that there that black people were prevented from accruing generational wealth. It's like even when black people made a start to like against all odds, white people destroyed their houses.


Chances. Yeah, they destroyed ALSA. Like, look up Tulsa. They'd like black Wall Street, Blackwall. Yeah, yeah. In Tulsa.


And it was like, OK, well or even now if you saw this online, this, this woman, her condo was like paid for and she got it appraised and it was like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars or something.


She was like why is this so less so she took off that she was black and then the, the appraisal for her condo went up almost like a hundred thousand dollars. And it's like yeah. Like even when you are successful, the white supremacy is deeply rooted in this country and like it's deeply rooted in everything I just saw happening.


To talk is very informative. This guy was I put pollution. White neighborhoods are less polluted because when they started letting people buy houses, the government would plant trees and white neighborhoods and they wouldn't plant trees in the neighborhoods of black and brown people.


So literally, their air is better. White people's air is better because the government, because the government.


So give everybody money. And also, like I said, give everybody money. I think that's the thing to people like, oh, you want to give black, give everybody money, give it to everybody. Because we all need it, everybody needs it, and I would love some reparations, I don't think we're ever going to get any, but I do think that I believe in a universal basic income. That's what I believe in. And I think that like it, it's not I like hate to be defeatist, but it feels like it's too late to just be like, I'm going to give all these black people stuff.


The white people aren't going to be having it. I do believe in a universal basic income where everybody gets enough money to live, because I think about your dad, Casey, like we're all not supposed to be working. He is supposed to have beautiful handwriting. And he was supposed to to be a musician and he's supposed to do what he wants and he's supposed to call you three days after his birthday. But like he everybody is not supposed to be working all the time.


We are all not built for that. And I think that as soon as we learn that if you don't want to work, that's not what humans are for humans to live a life. And like we have made people work, they don't get to live. And I think everybody should get 2000 hours. If you don't ever want to fucking work again, that's your business.


So, I mean, I have to say, I feel like I know what you're saying so deeply, which is that like what's being lost? Is invaluable in our society by people being forced to. Have a grind, unless they're unless they're lucky enough to like, let's face it, probably be white and like have generational wealth so that they can, like, luxuriate in like a liberal arts fuckin university and figure out what they want to do or what their passions are.


You know, most people have to, like, start working right away and then you're just in this fucking endless cycle of trying to make ends meet because there's no assistance, there's no help. And so for people to be able to.


Find and follow things that. Would add not just like beauty into the world, but but ideas and could lead to bigger things. It's impossible when you're starting. So, like down below, like the center, yeah, do you know what I mean, like in or in terms of poverty? Yeah, I mean, even just like in talking with some of the work that I've done with the Center for Reproductive Rights and talking to this gentleman from a.


Alabama about. You know how difficult they've made it to get abortions and there and and and what the women go through and what the children who are living in just such abject poverty are experiencing in our country, which is like basically they're starving.


Therefore, they're just not they're not going to be able to meet certain because they're hailstones and because they're because they're literally starving.


There are starving children. And it's like that is fucking unacceptable. And these motherfuckers, sorry to bring it back to like abortion, but like them. But these fucking motherfuckers calling themselves pro-life is the biggest bunch of bullshit that I've ever heard. Because if you're pro-life, then give. All of the money you give to people, yeah, give people light to let them have life, because when the baby is born they're like, well, why did you have that baby?


And it's like you made her had that baby. All right. Well, one of the things. Oh, my gosh. What was it? Because I'm losing track because I'm mad at everybody. Oh, like the kids not having any any food, any. It's so frustrating because we have enough. That's the thing that really it really kills me is that like I'm like we have we are the wealthiest more than enough. We have enough. But we just like we have too much.


We do too much. And it's it's very frustrating to watch. But oh I know too. I can't remember the name of the book, but I think it's Freakonomics.


Have you guys Freakonomics I guess Freakonomics.


And it was like when abortion like is legal, like it was like the time period during like the 80s and 90s where like people could get abortions like regularly what they needed that like the poverty in the crime rate for like twenty years later went down because it was directly correlated to those mothers not having children that they couldn't take care of.


And and when people because like the prison system is all rooted in white supremacy, obviously, but it's like people don't steal food because they're thieves. People steal food because of poverty. People don't rob gas stations and like, take the money. People want to work. So when they gave people like the opportunity to not have children that they literally could not feed, the crime rate went down because most people who were committing those crimes were committing them for survival.


And there was like so interesting to be like, oh, yeah, like they make sure these people are born, but they, like, don't help them survive. So we're we're pro-choice in this house right now.


Also, what's so frustrating is like that. I mean, just like on a basic level, have you never been fucking hungry before at your day at work and you can't do something because you're so hungry like this? He has to eat in the podcast because. Yeah, guys, you know, like that's why I'm eating in the podcast. Every so every single lawmaker, I guarantee is like having, you know, someone that their intern go out and get them lunch because they're hungry and they need to focus on their work.


Have you never been too cold to focus? Have you never been too tired to focus on the work in front of you? Like that's what we're condemning these kids to, to face every day in school and then get treated like shit for it. And it's just like I don't I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't wear I don't get it either.


Vanity and and I'm such a you know, I I've done a lot of work with no kid hungry. Casey, you've we've all we've done work with no kid hungry like I'm. Truly in awe of the work that they're trying to do and Jose Andrius with World Central Kitchen, which is also incredible and started out as like like emergency relief and now is just like, oh, yeah, shit. Everybody needs fucking food. OK, well, here we are, like, we're going to do this, you know, like if the government's not going to fucking do it.


Which brings us to the Nobel Peace Prize, who was nominated this let's see who's been nominated. Now, somebody explain to me how the fuck Jared Kushner got nominated.


Anybody like anybody nominated anyway to nominate you? Yeah.


Yeah. So. Oh, really? So that is impressive because, like, that's how like some fucking like, you guys could have just nominated me for it. I knew you were going to ask that.


And I don't know why. I don't know if that's exactly true.


But but but that's how I got nominated. Like some shitty, weird dude from some country was like he should be with. So like, it is cool to be nominated, but like some people do it for, like shits and giggles.


This this says on the Nobel Prize, Nobel Prize, dawg, a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize may be submitted by any person who meets the nomination criteria. A letter of invitation to submit is not required. The names of the nominees and other information about the nominations cannot be revealed until 50 years later, 50 years.


But how do we know people that have been nominated?


Well, they don't reveal who nominated you. Until 50 years later, it's all it's a scam. I just want Ivanka Trump nominated Jared Kushner. Yeah, probably she never does fucking anything.


So I want to see Abrams to win because I want her to get the cash prize. Oh, how much is the cash prize? OK. How much a surprise? I don't know. The Nobel Peace Prize in 2020, the cash award was one million one hundred forty five thousand dollars.


Oh, let's give Stacey Abrams that money for that. Also, Black Lives Matter is nominated as well. Oh, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Like the honberg. Yeah, the movement. Yeah, the thunder.


I feel like Gretta is like, how old is that girl? I feel like she's been nominated.


She's like 17 now I think like three times or so. Is that true or do I just feel like that. I don't know. I feel like she's been nominated before, but I'm not. You're not sure, but she's great, but, yeah, I really want the Black Lives Matter movement to win or Stacey Abrams for her. Yeah, for for voting rights. I think that would be so great. And I know that they'd put the money to good use.


Yeah, I agree. I want I want something nice to happen.


Yeah, that would be that would be something that would be something I've always been, like very into specificity, but like 20/20, I'm just like I just want some nice I just want someone nice, something I do that Shinjiro sometimes like when I'm just like like right before I fall asleep, I'm like, just let one good thing happen tomorrow.


The where worst works like you know or you like talked yourself into that one. Something that happened is the one good thing. Yeah.


I'm just like I can't just be praying for no specifics, no more. It's too wild. I'm just going to be like one that's thing. I mean, how can that help us?


Oh, I also sometimes when I'm like trying to write something right before I fall asleep, I'm like, please let me have a good idea tomorrow.


Oh, that's a good idea. Good. That's a good idea to do that. And it usually I like that usually works. I like that too because it's kind of amazing.


I like I'm not afraid to just like go to bed with work undone and get up early in the morning and do it. Yeah.


Because like some people if if it's too late, it's just over. Is it like this not diminishing returns.


It's like it's not going to work. I got to get up in the morning to do it right.


I have a question for you, sir. Did you guys watch do you guys watch Saturday Night Live?


Sometimes I didn't watch it, but I know that people are dragging them because of a same sex kiss.


Is that. Oh, are they? Yeah, because all I saw the next day on Twitter was like. Blair's so fucking amazing, but also funny, and I got so I was like so pissed about it and then I was like, I got to watch it just to know, like, contextually and like what's happening. Right? Yeah. Before I get super booted about something, I probably should have all the information right.


Sometimes I don't need all the information, but in this case I was like, maybe I'm missing something and it really is fucking genius and necessary.


And then I was just like watched it Mark and I watched it and I was like, this is fucking gay panic bullshit, fucking nineteen eighties crap. And like, why the fuck are these motherfuckers doing this shit. And I'm so over it and fucking stop. Yeah that's right. It's really, it's really tiring.


I feel like I'm exhausted by I feel like gay panic is gay panic and fat humor are the to the to like joke topics are accepted.


If you're at home and you watch that SNL with John Krasinski and then he and Pete Davidsen kiss and you're like, oh my God, I want you to stop right now and think about why why is that funny? Why is that funny to you? And like then. I want you to do some fucking soul searching and then I want you to get back to me. Yeah, because I am fucking done and I'm done with, like, fucking like I like John Krasinski and I feel like he's a dude that, generally speaking, has been done some pretty.


OK, stop for just a fucking white guy, like, wasn't he doing some thing on his new movie where he was like, let's just all be real? He was on the office and that's why people crack. So there we go.


That's the problem. I know what I'm saying. I'm right. No, no, no. I get that. I'm saying like I'm saying like as a human in in life, he seems like he's trying to do his best in terms of, like, being a good person, like where and woke ish or whatever. I thought he did something like like an equality initiative on.


Well, I thought he did. I thought that too. But then I'm also like, it wasn't Ryan Reynolds because I do confuse them. I hate to say.


You do. Yeah. Honestly, we might be right.


I know Ryan Reynolds is like a big movie star now, but I always just think of two guys, a girl in a pizza place, and he's like a corollary to John Krasinski for me.


Yeah, I think I don't know if John Krasinski did that, but I will say if he was, I don't know. I feel like we would know about it. I mean, I love when people move in silence, but quiet place shout out I never seen. Yes, but the whole thing is that, like, I also like people to fully understand what the demographic of SNL is like. People think that it's for you is not.


Lorne Michaels is making a show for 13 to 24 year old white boys, my boys, white boys not and baby white boys. And that's why if you watch a sketch at the end and they don't know how to end it, they yell at a woman.


That is how they end sketches when they don't know what to do.


Here's what I'm saying, Shannara. John Krasinski has the power in that city. Absolutely. And so you walk into that situation and the more like we have this really funny thing that, like, people keep asking you about Pam and then like it ends with you and Pete Davidson, like making out on stage and you're like, that feels like gay panic to me. And while I would love to kiss Pete, I he seems lovely. That feels like it's playing on a thing that I don't really want to be a part of you.




You are giving a lot of benefit to the doubt to this white man that we do not know for sure.


I mean, I've met him and I have soul cycled with his wife. But like I said, I but I do feel like but I do feel like I want this is OK. But this is the thing that I want to know what happens in that fucking moment when that guy knows. I'm telling you. That guy fucking knows. I know. That guy knows. I know he knows it's bullshit. And like in that moment, what happens to him to not speak up in that room and be like guys?


Actually, let's like worker, let's do a different angle. Let's not play to the fucking gay panic.


I'll say two things. What happened? I say two things about that. I don't think he thought anything was wrong. I do not give him any benefit of the doubt. I think that he thought it was funny no to the people who pitched it to him. John Krasinski did not come to SNL with sketches ready to go. OK, right. There were people. Right, were hired and they pitch. This is how SNL works in Hollywood break Hollywood stars.


They have full control.


Right. But the people who write the sketches write them. They get approved by fucking Lorne Michaels, who's out of touch as a motherfucker.


And then you pitch it to John Krasinski. So, like, OK, great. He's like, that sounds funny. I think people are intimidated by that, intimidated by a room full of comedians if they they give it to him. And it's like, OK, well, if a roomful of comedians says this work right. He's going to do it. Even if he thought it was wrong, you still don't walk into a room for SNL. And I know people probably do, but walking into a room at SNL and thinking you're funnier than an entire room of people, unless you're fucking Eddie Murphy, the odds are not in your favor.


So I want to say that. But let's not forget, like, who runs that fucking room? OK, it's Michael Che. And then what's his face married to?


The girl from Marjoe just shows a real strike.


So, like, they have a lot of pool. The people who are in charge of that show, a lot of straight white misogyny.


Like in that building, in that room, in that for who they make the show for. So, like, let's never I've never I'm not just going to blame John, because obviously he is the last person he has the final say. But everything you see on TV, it gets read by 20 white men before you get on your TV and all of them said it was OK. So that's on SNL.


Yeah, I agree. But like but I'm just saying, like, when trying to unravel all of this shit, it's like when I was on set and an actor loudly sat in front of a bunch of other people.


That he jacked off thinking about me, what prevented people who were friends with me, who like or respect me by all accounts, to just sort of like turn and walk men to turn and walk away. And what is it? What will it take for dudes to be especially fuckin white men? But like for them to just be able to say to other white dudes or to, you know, this isn't actually that fucking sucks, that's shitty and we can't do that anymore.


Do you know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm interested in at this point. I won't fuckin I won't hold my tongue. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I would immediately be like, hey, actually, guys, that's fucked.


And we're not doing that. But like the last four years with Trump as president, he's horrible. He deserved to be ridiculed from sunup to sundown every day. But what were the main two ways in which he was ridiculed, people making jokes about him having his body, Vladimir Putin, and that he's a fat fuck? You're right. That's right. You know what I mean? And those are like the last two things that. Anyone could knock him with because, by the way, is he a bigger guy?


Yes, he's a bigger guy. But again, like, what does that have to do with anything that he was doing every day and he wasn't having sex with Vladimir Putin? You were using it as an insult, a gay panic insult. So I think what it's going to take is people not holding their tongues.


But unfortunately, when you get a group of a certain people together and like, yeah, after the past four years, if you've been on Twitter in the past four years, G.A. talking about like how enraging it can be, like if you didn't have your head screwed on.


Right, I could see how you would be like, oh, I guess this is like what everyone thinks is funny right now. Like, this is this is the thing and it's not the thing. I hate it, Andy Cohen, when I worked for Andy Cohen, he was often invited to do like comedy bits on shows and so many times he would come back and be like they asked me, like basically to get up. And he would be like, I am the gayest person, like you're telling me to, like, put on some, like, affectation so that I'm, like gay enough to meet the standards of your joke.


Like, A, no, but B, also. What the fuck? Like I'm a well-known gay man. That's like the main thing people know about me. I am what gayness is, you know, it's weird, right?


But like, they want him to be an idea of like a caricature of a caricature.


Yeah. I kind of like what they picture like is the punch line of being gay.


All right, well, you know what? I'm just going to say it. I like John Krasinski and his wife, but I think that he didn't do his best and I think it could do better in the future and I want him to I want all and I want all the fucking white dudes on SNL to do better.


Yes. I have I have no feelings about him, I only love Angela Bassett. I've given all the other news.


I just feel like it's like everything had really been a rough day.


Yeah. We're in that age of Aquarius now, baby, and things are wild.


Listen, we're we are all as long as like. You continue to just be doing your best right and your best as. Not hurting, others not being. A racist fuck, I mean. I don't know, speak up. Yeah, oh, well, yeah, for sure that I mean, you know, that might show her that, you know, that my hobby is just going on to Instagram like Instagram ads of clothing and being like, these clothes are really cute.


It's too bad they're not size inclusive. Like, I know that that's like a small thing, but it's like no one will. It's not.


It's not. It's actually not. I think it's really important. Oh, wait. Blake Lively is doing her best this week, who's not married to John Krasinski.


But Blake spoke up about size inclusive, that more brands need to be size inclusive. And we applaud. Yeah, for sure. A lady like Blake who people think is very fashionable and I mean, she is, but. But yeah, that's important to me, and it's like an issue that's particular to me, like I want to wear the same cute clothes that my friends where so make clothes for me. You're leaving money on the table. But also, by the same token, when something's racist or homophobic, say, like, this is disappointing.


It just you just have to. You just have to. Yeah.


I think one of the things, too, is that they don't like to kind of go back to what you were saying, Busi, is that they don't have any skin in the game, you know what I mean? Like women, marginalized people are speaking up because we don't want that to happen to other people. But like those men, nothing is actually happening to them. They are a witness to something bad happening. And they're like, well, I don't want to say anything because we also, as a country like as a society are taught to take care of men's feelings because they're dangerous.


So even if you are like a man, a straight white man, Brzezinski is like tall and with Jim on the office. And it's like, do you want Jim from the office being mean to you? Do you want him mad at you? Like, I think that we really have to tackle the fact that we people are always talking about how women are sensitive.


We protect men's feelings all day because when they get the only feeling that they're allowed to fucking feel, they kill us.


So I think that there is something to be said about, I'm sure, like I've had this experience working on shows before. We're like I'm sure that there's some sweet, gentle, kind white man working at SNL right now who went up to to somebody. It was like, hey, I don't think that's a good joke. And they told me to fuck off and he probably got fired because that's how they roll at SNL.


So, like, I hope I'm sorry if that's your dream job or some shit, but there is not a fun job. And I think that that's the thing is that, like, I think there's always people who are willing to speak up, but that show's been a certain way and done certain things for the last 40 years. Whoever who has the last say is Lorne Michaels. So. Right.


I know that there's I mean, they hired twenty to twenty three year old. You don't think somebody was Gen Z and didn't like that joke. Everything you see on television, Lorne Michaels approves even if people work there.


Yes. Fucking Yeah. Approve. So like let's let the people at the top. That's who did it. That's, that's who do it.


But that's also like. Moving forward, it's the thing that I just so frequently feel like. Needs to be the focus of change, right, like we can people can commit to, like our writers rooms are going to be we're going to hire 60 percent more black writers or whatever.


And it's like, hey, guys, you need to hire about 100 percent more black. Exactly. Yes. And people in creative positions that can green light some shit and and not and by the way, not just black like any on any marginalized and yes.


Marginalized community, because when you then look at, like the people who are able to make the decisions, the big decisions about money and what gets made and what gets seen and what jokes get out there.


They're like white. Gay people? Yeah, like, yeah, generally, yeah. And by the way, you not only have to hire those people, but yeah, empower them to be able to speak up and have people. Change the course of what they're doing based on being spoken up to, because let me tell you something like I try I try all the time on every show that I've ever worked on.


And there just is no there's no gratification. There's no glory in telling someone you shouldn't do that because it's disappointing because it's going to hurt people. That is not a fun thing to tell somebody that you fucking work for. Yeah. That is in charge of you to say hold up. And like, I always try to couch it in. Like I'm doing this for you, by the way, because I don't want you to do this and then log on to Twitter in an hour to find that people are having a cancel you party, you know what I mean?


Like, but that's not really what it is. I don't care. Like, you know, if someone wants to if someone wants to swing that hard at something and get canceled, OK, I'm I care about people being hurt by. Yeah. I just don't understand. Like, if you're if your job, if you want to make comedy and you want to be funny and bring people joy and bring people laughter.


I don't, I don't get that. I don't subscribe to that. Like it's not comedy unless someone gets hurt.


I don't understand why you would want to hurt someone and I don't understand why you wouldn't want to step up to the challenge of being more creative and like beating the tired old joke that should be retired with something like fresh and new that nobody's seen before that everybody can enjoy.


I just I don't get it. Why? I love that one guy.


He was on our show. He is why? But I think it was because he was really religious. But he like those really nice comedy guys.


What's his pit home p people.


He thought that I was the stage manager. He did think you were the stage manager, to be fair. You were wearing a hat. I was very upset, but it was just a very weird situation to me because I had been a writer on Best Week ever where he was a panelist. And like I ascended to like a higher position at best week ever. And then, you know, like our roads diverged. I didn't, like, hang out with Pete Holmes a lot, but then he was like, are you the stage manager here?


And I was like, wow. I mean, how far she's fallen, not even that far. A stage manager is a great job, but I just I really controlling like he never he didn't remember that I had been a writer who wrote things for him.


And I was like, I really obviously made a big impression on him. I mean, even if you I think that if he would have been like he used to be a writer, why are you doing this now? I think that that has been really so I'm just being like, this is your job cool?


And then, yeah, you know, I took it like he had zero memory of the fact that I ever wrote comedy for him to perform and that.


Yeah, it's fine. He's I mean, you know, the you know, the you know, the secret. You can't take anything personally because everybody is just so self-absorbed.


Oh, 100. Yeah. So I think that I don't consider myself a self-absorbed person, but I do not remember people like I don't remember people's names, I don't remember people's faces.


I'm so sorry. Like I have to meet you like four times. Like if we like have like if I talk to you at a bar for like two hours, like I'll be like, oh my gosh, what an amazing conversation with this person. I'm never going to see again. So if I see you again, don't please be too sure.


The first time we met, we had like a really long, nice talk and it took us like over a year to realize that we had, like, met one time before and spent the night talking.


Well, OK.


I will also say you met me in New York and I was in a really bad place. So, yeah. Anybody ever met me in Brooklyn from May. Twenty, seventeen till September. Twenty eighteen. You have been forgotten.


I blocked you out baby.


I had to push you out.


I do have to say New York City is very magical in this moment with all this snow because you don't have to shovel it.


Well, that's the truth. If you had a driveway right now, you would be cursing. That's no. Also, though, I did. Or did you guys hear that like this thing falling to the ground? I mean, at what point is the Harry Styles music going to start pumping soon in celebration of his birthday on Harry's 27?


Happy birthday, Harry style. Shout out Happy fuckin birthday.


Talk about spreading joy in a way that harms no one and helps many.


Oh, yeah. Harry Styles that in return, I hope is good. I hope it's not too fucking wild.


He is. Listen, he is he is going to go through it. I think. I really do. I feel it for him.


I have to say, guys, I had a fucking this is so embarrassing.


Occasionally people will reach out to me via Instagram DBMS or like a comment or whatever. Like you were my dream last night. It was so weird. We were hanging out with friends. You guys.


I've now started dreaming that Harry Styles and I are friends with my fucking dream last night. Cool that. That I was like, well, we weren't friends, like in my dream last night, I saw him and he was with a friend of mine and I went up and like.


Talk to them a bit, you guys, what I had a realistic dream in which I was hanging out with Harry's pals, I heard he has turned me into stand like a real a real star.


Yeah, I'm like a huge fucking fan. I listened to Harry's music.


I love it. Have you listened to it? Pops? Yeah. Yeah, he pops. He does make Bob. I think that's really cool that again. Well, to bring it back to my dad, one of the coolest things my dad ever did is that he took me to see Purple Rain when I was way too young to go see it because he had a visitation, one that he actually made it to. And he felt guilty because he had missed a couple.


So anything goes, you know? And so I was like, I really want to see this movie Purple Rain. So he took me. And obviously, like there were some scenes where I just wanted to, like, run out of theater and die of embarrassment watching it with my dad. But at the end of the movie, my dad, who's like such a music snob, I was like, what is he going to say about this? Like, it's so weird or whatever.


And at the end of the movie, my dad turned to me and he was like, that guy is really talented. That kid's really talented. Thanks for introducing me to him. And I thought it was so cool and it made me feel so cool. And I'm sure you liking Harry makes Bertie feel very cool. That's so nice.


Well, I don't know Bernie's properties already on another wall being cool, you know what I mean?


Like, I don't know you think that. But also, Bernie is still a kid. You know, Bernie is a real fucking over my pole dancing.


I mean, that must be weird. Well, every part of me being Bertie's mother, do you know what I mean, like this poor person these kids have to deal with, like this bullshit?


Yeah, like, you know, I think it's cool.


Thank you, Shintaro. But also, you can be 33. So you're also not like I in my hat.


In my head, you're you're still twenty seven.


Thank you so much. At my last job the showrunner was like, you're twenty three, right. And I was like what. And then that girl she looked at, she goes and you're thirty three right.


She was like at twenty nine I was like I think like wow that's wild. Have you guys done that thing like the. The filter, like how old, yeah, I guess is how old you are. Oh, no, I have. Have you done that? Have in mind always comes out like twenty nine or something. Yeah. I mean skin.


I got skin. Thank you. Thank you. That's true.


Although you guys, I had that zit that I didn't want to pick so we went to a dermatologist and he put too much cortisone in it.


And now I have a crater in my head. Oh now I know. So I don't know what I'm going to do. Get some filler in there. You I know you can put a little bit of filler in it. It's like I'm not I don't do any filler or Botox or anything. But I think that because also that's part of my old contract, like, I really I'm not allowed to watch. I love. I think that that could be an exception just because it's like filler to fix a hole in my head.


It might also just fill back in, I don't know. Well, they say it does, but there's some filler. I know this sounds crazy. There are some filler. It starts with an L. Maybe I will not know. I know I don't. I don't know it either that like supposedly if you if you inject it in, like, to a place like that where you've had like. Like, I'm supposed to have to, you know, like tissue here.


Yeah, like, yeah, right. But it'll help. It'll help regenerate. Yeah.


Or you could maybe get a little fat moronic asset, a fat. Oh. Hyaluronic acid. Yeah. I think it's hyaluronic acid. I think you put hyaluronic acid in it and then it like makes the stuff because I don't fucking know what am I what I will say that I probably will never get plastic surgery for anything.


But I am obsessed with plastic surgery and I just like read about procedures and like look at the procedures and like in a scientific way I guess. Anyway, that's what I do.


Do you ever look at on Instagram, on the Explorer page? I look on there. Yes, I look at Instagram Explorer page and also there's this website, Real Self, where people like post pictures of themselves and ask like and doctors answer like, oh, here's what I do to your boobs or here's what I know. Yeah. And I'm just like very far.


And then people are like then people like post, you know, pictures after like oh I got this Peladon done and I'm unhappy with it. And then doctors are like, oh, somebody shouldn't have done that appeal to you. You should have gotten this.


I hate it like this. Not like this at all. That's just like this out that stresses me out. I can spend lives.


I spend a good hour scrolling real self. No, I'm just going to keep looking at dogs and boats. Well, on the idea of real self, who is your real self? Who are you what defines you in and of itself? What are you? Is that going to interrupt?


Guys, I just made that I was on the spot, actually. Kind of amazing. Yeah. It actually might be the best intro that we've ever done. Yeah. Don't don't push it. Let's move this all about you, baby. Oh, I'm about do we have the pleasure or the ultimate like pleasure of speaking with Derek Delgaudio, who has an incredible special now out on Hulu called In and of Itself. That's based on it's like a documentary based on his live stage show that ran in New York for a couple of years.


And it combines it's to say that it's a magic show, is not giving it full credit if you haven't seen it yet.


We Islay, all three of us, I say we not in a royal we sense, but like all three of us, highly recommended.


I would even say maybe if you have free time, pause this right now, go watch it on Hulu, go watch it and then come back and listen to us talk to Derek. You do what you want, but that's what I mean. You've got to live your own life.


I cannot live it for you. I mean, that's what this I would like.


That's what that's what the whole the whole in and of itself is about. It's like you got to be you baby.


You got to be you baby. So so we had we had a real lovely discussion with illusionist performer writer Derek Delgaudio.


And here it is.


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Get it. OK guys this is very exciting. Derek Delgaudio is joining us today. Did I say it right.


You did. You can ask these two, I had a talk show for one year, Derek, and sometimes I would have friends come on and I would mispronounce their names. So I'm I'm glad I got it right.


Did what you did was. Well, I'm a huge, huge fan of yours. I was I saw in and of itself in the theater in New York and I love.


The special that's now on Hulu, the documentary sort of version of it, it's interesting how do you describe it? Because it's not exactly. The show, it's sort of it's an interesting way to do to do the show, to do the show, right?


Yeah. Yes, it is. It's the translation of the show. It's a translation of the show. Yeah. It's a new interpretation of the show. Yes. And what and we'll just tell everybody what type of show it is, it's, you know, because these a real magic bitch, she's a real magic bat.


And Derek is I mean, magician isn't really that's not the right. It's not right. It's not it's not all. It's it's more than magic. I just like watching you guys try to figure it out. Try to figure out how to do an interview. All of it.


All of it. Really? Yeah, I have a background as a magician and sleight of hand and things like that. And this is a theatrical one person show that explores the notions of identity. And yeah. And we recorded it and turned it into a special that something looks.


And it's super special, by the way. I mean. Yes, it's amazing. It's incredibly moving and emotional, and it what I love about it is exactly what I loved about seeing the show in person, which is that everyone has their own experience.


Yeah, it's not really about me. It's about them. They just don't know it until it's too late, right?


Yes. I mean, that's very important. Like, if you told me that you were going to do that to me on a good night, I might not have showed up.


So I really do like I love that because I think people oftentimes avoid what they need the most. And I do think that, like, shows are a way also to like to see what you need, but also an escape. So to probably a lot of people were avoiding what they needed most and went somewhere to ignore what they needed to get in touch with. And then you got them there. And I think that that's really cool. I think that people watching the special, especially like a lot of times things just don't work until like I've seen shows, especially like in blackbox theaters when you go, yeah, this is great, you can not put this on TV.


It will not be enjoyable. Right, just to be able to get to a point where, like, it does transcend just being in in a theater that you could turn it on in your house and get that same experience. It's like really like an ode to how how how well it works. And that's in my opinion.


Right. So that's like I wanted to I want to just start off with that, which is that we started OK, this is OK.


This is like, OK, you know, Derek, thank you for that, because the truth is, sometimes it's hard to tell even from, but.


When the decision was made to try to put this incredible experience like it's in the show in and of itself. As I saw it on stage, was really an immersive experience. Yeah, so in conceptualizing how to turn it, how to do a film version.


Mm hmm. Was Frank Oz, a producer on this of the stage show as well? He directly directed it. He directed the stage show already? Yeah.


Did you had you guys discussed early on or was it something that came about during the run of the show, like let's figure out a way to do this. So you obviously filmed like a bunch of different shows.


Sure. It came it came about during the run. I haven't traditionally filmed my work because I just I'm I agree. I don't think most live productions translate well. And my work has been live for the most part. And so I just never felt the need to to do it because I didn't want to didn't want to put it on a different medium and have it be less than what I felt it was. But this for some reason, I started to feel like it maybe could could work, it could translate somehow.


And so I started I started thinking about it and how that might how that might look and what how we could use the the medium of film to elevate it as opposed to just trying to capture it. And no one really wanted to do it at first because because the show is working so well. And it was like, you know, when you think of capturing a live event, you know, most of the things we think of are either concert films or stand up specials.


And then you get an A or like a PBS capture of of a line musical in the Hamilton.


Even the Hamilton movie, which I think is really, really well done, is is just the staged version that's been filmed.


Those are those are the things people think of. And I knew I knew that's not what I wanted and that's not what we'd end up with. But it's hard to kind of pitch what that is, even though what was pitched initially when I first started having the conversations, even to Frank, was like, there's archival footage and we'll use things like maybe animation to help tell the stories and we'll capture multiple evenings so they'll see the totality of it as opposed to just these individual nights.


Because for me, the show wasn't wasn't really multiple shows. It was one long show that spanned a few years. That's why the book is there to keep the story going. And so you get to see the totality of it as opposed to these individual evenings. And so I started kind of tossing that idea out and no one really wanted to do it because they didn't know how they got there. Like Frank, Frank was even like, I don't really see I don't really see it, but like, good good luck with that at first.


But then the more we talked about it in, the more he the more he saw footage and stuff, the more he realized he saw he got on board and saw the same thing that I saw and that there were surprises that you normally don't get in life productions, for instance, the way I'm performing isn't very performative. So on film, it actually seems natural. It's like film acting. Not for sure, not stage acting and not normally when you capture a stage, show your kids everything's big and broad and and it doesn't work as well.


And it's meant for the theater. So there are things like the performances were translated well, the experiences the audiences were having translated well. And so just the pieces started to come together and the creative team was like on board. And then it was just about finding someone to pay for it. Right. And that was another challenge because, again, no one wanted to do it. No one. I mean, we got turned down by everyone. And you see and I know what that's.


Yeah, we know we now can I go. But can I go back to something that you started? Because we're always talking about Pivot's and like handling setbacks. Sure. On this show. And I'm a giant fan of Frank Oz, the who directed your special and just for context for people at home, in case you don't know, Frank Oz, legendary film director, you also might know him as Grover from Sesame Street. He's Miss Piggy. He's the voice of Miss Piggy and like grew up to be this amazing, legendary director who's very imposing.


He's an imposing guy. Right? He's like a little intimidating in my experience. So at that moment when he said good luck to you, as you said, what how did that feel? And like how did you handle that?


I we have a good, great relationship. And he's like, if you have a vision for it, I want to support you in doing that and helping however however I can. That was his approach. And he did and made sure that it was a film in the end. But but it took it took him seeing it and moving like pushing towards that for him to really see what I was seeing and. And we made it, you know, we made it together and spent a year editing it, and it was an amazing experience for me because it was like, you know, film school with Frank us.


So it was really I mean, yeah, I have to say, like I do also want to point out that this is the before times before the pandemic.


And so, yeah, I kind of want to ask you as a magician, in terms of how this last year, now almost a year, has affected how you're thinking about magic and performance and your work like moving forward.


I mean, I don't really think about it that way. I haven't I haven't performed a since since the show closed in twenty eighteen and and didn't perform. I don't know how long before that. So I don't really I wrote a book last year. Right. And so I don't really. I don't care about performing that way like it's fine, it's the it's the end of a process for me. And if that process requires that I get in front of people and say things, that's fine.


But it's not that's not necessarily the medium that I really am interested in.


What is the medium that you're really interested in?


I'm not I don't have one. I'm just interested I'm I'm interested in what I'm interested in. And whatever medium is required to say the things I want to say or make, that's what I'll use. I don't really I don't really think about the form so much as as the ideas.


I have a question. I know you primarily from, like, magic, but I think about just as an artist, that understanding that like you're interested in creating art and whatever medium allows you to present that to the world. I like fully appreciate my question for you is that this show that we watched was so cool because it involved so many people in the audience, like how do you transition from doing something that you were talking about? You practiced alone for so long.


You practiced alone all the time to go into doing something in front of all of these people and then inviting them to participate. How do you transition from like, I'm practicing by myself to being ready to, like, involve the world into this thing that you were doing by yourself?


I wasn't ready. I wasn't I did there was no choice. I had a date that I needed to to there were tickets being sold for a date and a theater. And I had to show up and do it ready or not. And so there's a photo of me from the first dress, the first and only dress rehearsal taken after. I don't know who took it, but because it was it's kind of a mean photo, but it's it's me.


It's me sitting in the like in the empty chairs in the audience with my staff kind of staring at me with my I just had my head down because nothing worked. Nothing. I said, I'll do nothing. Nothing work. Nothing was was clear, nothing was right. It just wasn't good at all. And an audience was showing up in three hours to ad that had paid money to see whatever the hell this was. And I found out later that the the the heads of the theater were actually having discussions about how to replace the show was already there.


They were like, what are we going to do? Like, this thing's supposed to run for six weeks and it's it might not last six days, you know? And so. Yeah, I know this is untraditional in the sense that most most of the time when you do a show like this, you especially material like this, you want to you want to work it out in front of people and, you know, like like comedians, do you get up and you do open mikes or you do you workshop and you go from club to club and you figure out what works and what doesn't come up with your your set hour or whatever it is.


This was this was not like that because I couldn't. There's no way to do that. Yeah.


You can't practice if you can't push the bit, you push the bit. Oh so so it was all theory and ideas and script and you know, hope and belief that this would work. And then I just had to get out there and do it and it and and I turned it around by the first performance because I realized, like, it wasn't going to be what I want it to be the very first performance. So I made it I made it work as a performance and not as a not as a work of art so much, but.


Oh, interesting. Yeah. It was kind of like my friends and collaborators are like, you're going to need to carry this show for a while. Like it's bigger than it's too big, it's bigger than you. It's bigger than like what you're trying to do is not you can't just get out there and start doing this. You've got to fake it till you make it, but you have to sell it for a little bit and be a performer.


And and so it was a little more performative at first. I was more, more, more of a, you know, performer, a showman, a show.


Yeah, it was really it was it was a show. It was a show. Yeah.


And essentially Hugh Jackman is right there. Yeah. I think you're comparing yourself to him.


I wish. Have you met him. Have you met. Yeah. Yeah. He's the only movie star I've ever met and I mean that in a sense where I met him and it was he's a he's a fucking movie star the way you think. Movie stars. Yeah. Ah, every other movie star I've met is just a person. Yeah. Who happens to be a movie star. And when I met Hugh Jackman, he was just it was.


Yeah. A halo over and it was unbelievable.


And we had our friend Andrew Rannells on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and he told a very funny story about being unable to stop hugging Hugh Jackman when he met and like he just kept going and to hug the body part, like the muscles.


Yeah. So, yeah, he just was like I just had to keep hugging. And I understand that Hugh Jackman is a movie star. He's a real old fashioned movie star.


So if you want to compare, that's fine. But your your your your background in magic. Now, I don't think I made this up. I think that I went with Neil Patrick Harris to see you at the Magic Castle in like two thousand seven.


So that's yeah, that's probably true. It's one of the things. Right? Yeah, that's I'm sure that's one of the few places you can you can perform doing that.


So. Right. You were very young. You're younger than I am now. Yes. Aren't we.


Weren't we all. Yeah.


And I remember Neil saying, like, you guys have to see this guy, he's he's got he's going to be a superstar.


And you really did make such an impression on Mark, who's now my husband at the time we were just dating and me that. When we went to in and of itself, as soon as you walked on stage, we both grabbed each other, were like, oh my God, it's the guy that's like, yeah.


So when you were sort of starting out doing sleight of hand and. That kind of stuff like going into places like the Magic Castle is essentially the equivalent of standups going to the Comedy Store and going up every night, right?


Yeah, I mean, that's that's. Yes, yes. That's the only place where you can work stuff out, like because, you know, like I did shows at Largo and it shows in Hermosa Comedy Club and at the at the, you know, comedy clubs in town and things like that. But you get one night every however rarely. It's not like you can gig it at those places the way that because you're the freak in that place. Not really what people see.


So the castle is was is one of the only places in the world that you could you can go grind out material the way that a comedian would right now material in a comedy club. And so that was that was a place I went when I was younger. And and, you know, it's half social in that it's where you meet friends who come to town who do the same thing. They obviously want to go there. And so you just kind of end up, you know, just just like comedy or something like that.


Where did just out of curiosity, how did the because I know you had a show before in and of itself, but where did the idea was in and of itself, something that you were sort of had been thinking about for a long time, like wanting to do basically a one person show exploring these themes and using your own.


And this is a question that I don't know if you even want to answer, because I don't even I don't know.


And I'm I'm a sort of terrible host in the way that I don't do a ton of research.


So I don't even know if it's true.


The show about you. Oh, that's odd.


If it's truly autobiographical or if you've.


Yeah, it is. I assume every word I say.


OK, everyone I assumed. But I don't know, you could also just be like a sociopath. Do you know what I mean? Sure I do.


But that's part of it is like if I, I'm not sure what context or history I'd need to have for one to believe me. You know, yeah, I think one of the things that's really cool, too, is that, like, honestly, everyone leaves the show with their own experience, but some people need what is happening in the show. They need it to be true. And then some people need it not to be real. And I think that they'll decide for themselves what works for them.


Even when I, like, think about Hamilton or I think about a Broadway show, like I know exactly what they're there to give me, like give me the old razzle dazzle, give me some kick lines, you know, give me some harmony, because you cannot do harmony, but it's going to sound the same.


Yeah, but I think one of the fun things I think about theater is that like, nobody goes and sees a drama and is upset that there's comedy in it. Like I've never like watched a dramatic play and been like, God, it then the second act, they made me laugh and I'm really fucking mad about it. And I think there's really something cool about knowing you from a very specific type of thing and then going there and seeing theater, because I think that people sometimes would be like magic is not theater, comedy is not theater, like this is not theater.


And to go there and to get more than what you went there for. And was that your intention like did you when you were like, I want to do the stage show, was it something cathartic for you or was the intention for it to be a catharsis for everyone involved?


That's a good question. I didn't I didn't set out to do. I set out to make something no one had seen before in in in an effort to to create a metaphor for identity. And so I wanted to create something that was existed but wasn't easily defined and used and that used mystery as as a way of kind of accessing parts of a discussion about identity that I hadn't seen or heard before. And so, like, I really like TASC.


Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that. But I it it wasn't a theatre show ever for me either. That's why when I actually didn't even want a director, when I very first started, I was like, I don't want to do it, I don't want it to be in a theatre, but it needs to be somewhere. So it's better than, you know, some sort of a boxcar and a train station or something. Like I wanted people to show up.


Why didn't you want it to be in a theatre? Because it's one step closer to deciding what it is. It's a theatre show at that point. Yes, that's that's what. Yeah, so so but we have to have OK, we have to have it somewhere or experience at a theatre. They're going to call it a theatre show. That's fine. But I don't want a director because then you're one step closer to understanding what the sell. It's a one man show because there's a director and it's in a theatre and there's one man and there's one man, you know, but it's sort of like the more the more the irony is like the more you do a thing, the more it becomes defined.


And then it's kind of actually working against the thesis of the entire project. So it's that balancing act of how do you how do you go into the world and existing and remain undefined. It's not easy, but but I obviously needed someone outside of me to to reflect what what people are going to see because I couldn't workshop it. So Frank, Frank was the obvious choice because he he is exactly what you were saying earlier about he's he's done all of these different things and lived all these different lives as an artist.


And he's Yoda and he directed what about Bob and Little Shop of Horrors. And, you know, everyone thinks of a different thing when they think of Frank Oz, if they know his work. And I saw I thought he might understand. And he did, thankfully. And what was the questioning in? Oh, sorry, I got off track, but but you're answering it. Yeah. Welcome to our podcast. It was it was like, is this a cathartic thing?


Oh yeah. I was open to being cathartic for other people, but I think that it's all encompassing. Right. Right.


Yeah. I didn't have anything about me in it when I first started writing it. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, nothing was in it. It was all the ideas, but it wasn't very accessible for people. And so, like like I would stand up in the studio and recite things and Frank would be like, I don't know. I don't really know what you're talking about right now. And because everything was very abstract, because I was moving, the pendulum was so far in the direction of I don't want people to know what this is because the not knowing is the point.


Mystery is the point. You know, all the things we can't see about others and yet they exist. We need to learn how to appreciate the things we can't see in others, you know? And so, like, these are the things I was striving for. So it was a little too far and there needed to be an access point for the ideas. And so me and my stories became a proxy for the audience to to to access these ideas.


As somebody who has written a memoir that's incredibly personal and has put my own self out for others to to consume and relate to and then reflect back to me their experience of my experience.


I. Was prepared to a point at what that was going to be, but nothing can really prepare you for it.


And so I'm curious how, if you did protect yourself in any way from that or how that. How you allowed that that in, I personally am like I enjoy having the connection with people like them, knowing about who you are and things like that.


Yeah. And me and them saying to me, like, thank you for saying this, because this is what happened. This is my story. Oh. And then yeah.


Like, yeah, I'm sure you've had a lot of that now. No, not really.


No one really. Yeah. I don't know. I mean I've only talked to you, I mean you and some other people, but it's not like you can write that in that you can't really write all that in a tweet.


So it's not really but people don't like send you fan mail are like DMS and stuff. They do but they don't. It's weird, it's not necessarily like I connected so much with not growing up with a father or maybe maybe I'm just not good at it now. I don't know.


Yeah, it's also wildly specific. And if I know anything about people, it's that, like so many people have the exact same wildly specific experiences.


Yeah, I think, like the things I get are more. The less personal than that or the personal in a way that I didn't, they make it about themselves and not about me like I. And so they usually if they write, it's about them and it's it's it's not really about my story. They say thank you for sharing and being vulnerable. And those things are not that sort of stuff is not hard for me to tell. Those stories is not difficult.


The part that's hard for me is telling them and believing that they will be perceived in the way that I intend. I don't want to be mistaken for, you know, a person doing a sappy one person show like. Yeah, a melancholy, you know, woe is me, look at my life. So that's not what it's about. And so I was very concerned early on with that because I don't like shows like that. I don't want to see shows like that.


I don't know that there has to be something more. It has to be so selfish that it's generous. Right. And yeah. And it's rare that that happens.


That's why I think it was so genius. This is more more of a comment than a question. Sure.


I think it was so genius because you gave a little bit of yourself. And I think people, especially when you're talking about magic, I'm sure you've had the experience of people entering into it skeptically or wanting to look out at something. And I was I'm not like that. Like I want to believe and I want to enjoy it. We all love magic.


We all love. Yeah. It's a safe space story of magic loving between us.


But I will say that, like, I can tend to be guarded and like, withhold judgment on something or withhold opinion. I think so when you are sharing, like, personal things, it cracked me open in a way that then when you're talking about like what people's identities are, I was already open a little bit to that and also to the magic. And they were both like, strangely emotional. That's what surprised me the most, is like how emotional it made me feel.


Well, that's something that I didn't that I was. I'm glad that I made some of the choices that we made, because I, I knew that I had to give something because I was asking so much of that. And so it's it's it didn't seem like anything for me to to give parts of myself or stories or just open up and be honest, because I would never ask someone to do something that I wasn't willing to do. And so I on the on that stage and in all my work, I wanted to make sure that if I'm going to have people take leaps of faith, I needed to be taking leaps of faith.


And if I'm going to have people be vulnerable, although I never asked of it, I knew it was part of part of it is this idea of being seen in front of people I needed to to be vulnerable first if I was going to require that of someone else. And I and I never really see that. And performances rarely I rarely see people, performers especially being genuinely vulnerable in a place it's usually. Perform vulnerability or like it's it's affected and it's like, oh, yeah, rehearsed, but it's not actual vulnerability.


And I, I engineered things into it that will put me on the other end of the barrel, like like I genuinely didn't know if the bullet was coming back every single day. No idea. Have no idea. There's no there's no contingency plan. People have asked me what happens if they don't come back. It's like I guess I get another journal like start over. I guess like I did. These were things that were made in a high wire act in a way that you can't fake.


You could you could fake it, I guess. But for me, if I'm telling a story about becoming this mythical character of the reality star, I have to put a bullet in the chamber. And what metaphoric bullet am I loading each time that really makes this more real than not? And and so so I really try to put myself in a situation where I didn't know things and I was unsure of how how things would turn out and how people would react and what and and and also being honest with them.


And because I wanted to say because there's also the the big moment at the end, it's in those spoilers, no spoilers.


But I think it's interesting because I think in the in the film version you said. If you picked something that doesn't really apply to you, please sit down. I see if some of you may have had fun with it and chose something like ninja or space pirate. Others may have taken it seriously, chose something you feel reflects who you really are in this world. If you're one of those few people, please stand.


Right, right, right. Yeah, that makes sense.


I did I did something fucking weird with my now because I picked something that I felt real about, but then I was too embarrassed.


Well, that's, that's, that's part of the experience. Yeah. I mean what it is, it's a confrontation. Yeah.


Not that you picked that one, but in the film someone picks idiot and then you're like the person who picked it and then they like they don't want to raise it. Yeah. And then in my head I was like, it's probably like somebody who was like, this is fun. And then you have to like reckon with it, which I think is one of the thing that you have to own it when you walk into the theater. I didn't get to walk into that area.


I just watched people walk into the yeah. On the screen. But when you walk into the theater, I think the first thing you do right is like you pick who you are, like I am, I pick, you pick. But I think the metaphor, it it's so interesting to like we pick who we are when we go a lot of different places, like when you go to the library, you pick who you are when you want to talk to the librarian.


When you go to the show, you pick who you are. And that's how many people are very little. All right. And so many people do pick something that's kind of willy nilly. But in your show, I think that there is that moment where everybody is like given a moment to come to terms with who they picked, who they are.


And I mean, I think it's very interesting. Yeah. To put that type of vulnerability, like, honestly, honestly on camera and to do it alone while doing magic in 500 times is a real testament to, like, vulnerability, like you were saying.


So obviously the pandemic or whatever, one of the things that you said you were like, you don't really perform that much anymore. Is there something that you are waiting for, something else to do or do you just ah, you do not want to do that right now. Is there a reason why you just don't feel like performing?


Well, I mean, imagine imagine I wasn't doing that show right now. What performance would I be doing. I don't know.


I don't know. I don't know.


But yeah, I'm in the same boat. Like what? What stage do you see me getting on doing so, you know, like I mean, I don't my work doesn't doesn't you know, I'm not interested in doing the work people expect me to do. Like, I don't I don't, I don't I don't give a shit like I'm going to I'm going to I don't care if it takes another ten years to get on stage again. Yeah. I'm going to take my time and do something that I feel is worth putting into this world and not just go out there and get some attention.


I'm not interested in that.


So that is something like is what I would love to discuss more of as an artist, as someone who creates things, because I do think that we live like in a world where, like content must be created. It's quantity over quality. Yeah. So like how. Yeah. But that's also that's also because of art, because artists. Because you've got to fucking eat did. And so like art, so many artists have to like take jobs. Yeah.


They don't because they have to, they got to feed their kids and themselves to you know, I'd rather take a job.


That pays the bills and make the art I want to make then then make then compromise the work I want to do and take jobs that I feel like does that thing. That's why I've had a regular job. So I'm like unlike most of my peers, you know, it's like I would I would rather go get a real nine to five job and do that and on my off time make the work I want to make, then go out and do card tricks at a at a at your birthday party, you know, like that.


My birthday party would be super fun.


I was going to say I'm sure I'm sure it would be but it wouldn't it wouldn't be it wouldn't be right for the work I'm trying to do. And so I, I will do what it takes to to make sure that the work is comes first. And even if that means at my own sacrifice, what do you see as the work?


It's not a it's not like some grand vision, it's one step at a time, but like, you can't do it. You can't. On this show wouldn't exist if I was also. Getting out and doing stuff on stage, right, because you can't help but start to react to the audience and like, oh, that worked that line got a laugh. Oh, because if you're creating the work, if that's your laboratory, you're going to want it to succeed.


And so it becomes a collaborative process, whether you're aware of it or not. I wanted to make sure that I had what I wanted to see ready before I let them start to join me in the dialogue and then and now and inevitably shape it. So sometimes it takes time to sit down and write a thing or make a thing or come up with an idea and then present it to them and, you know, not let them come come near it until it's it's it's ready enough for them to see it or hear it.


Otherwise it could be distorted and it could be not as pure as you want as it could be.


I think you did a really good job of that because I don't want to spoil my favorite part. I'll just say is the letters. Sure. I think that's so beautiful. And I feel like that is one of the best moments I've ever seen in any medium. First of all, anybody who volunteers for anything that's like really brave, I like I think people forget how brave it is to raise your hand in a theater and to come and be on stage with someone.


So like, how do you feel about creating a space where, like people who like usually aren't very brave or like might just be in the theater wanting to be quiet, to create a space where people feel brave enough to share that moment with you?


Well, you need to create, like you said, create the space that allows for that. And yeah, you know, sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes it doesn't matter how how safe a space it feels. They're just not they're not that person. They're not going to sit there in front of other people. They're they're not going to let their guard down. That's inevitable.


I wanted to ask about that. How many shows did you end up doing in the run of in and of itself?


Total like seven hundred and five fifty two.


And in New York, though, so I had a super the. What I saw was like super emotional. Everyone I was really I was like sobbing from I don't even like line three.


I don't even know you were crying. Everybody was, like, crying in my show. But I imagine that couldn't possibly be the tenor of every show that you did. Were there some nights performances when you went out and you're like, oh, fuck me, not.


Yeah, well, not not there. I would walk off the stage and say that I've never, never on the stage. Right.


But yeah, there were there were some nights where, like, for instance, we were we were when when it first got to New York, it was a very skeptical New York crowd. And then as time went on and people started to kind of accept that it was OK to like this thing, you know, they needed to be told that it's. No, no, no. It's cool. It's fine. You're allowed to go see this. You know, some comedians came and told their friends and and, you know, which is nice because they're usually the the assholes about magic, which is which is, you know, it's expected.


But like when those guys came and started saying, like, no, this is actually really good, you should go see it and sing it in a way of like it's not just fun. You should go see it. It's it matters. It started to shift and become people I don't know, started taking it seriously, which is nice. And then Charlottesville happened. And there's a huge tone shift in the world, in our world. And and that reflected in the theater.


And people just started it was one of those things where people are either coming to it and taking it seriously or they were annoyed by how seriously other people were taking it, like there were obviously people who hated it. Like this is this is stupid. What am I watching? Just do the tricks and get off stage. It's so dependent on the chemistry of the audience, which, as you know, as a performer, like some nights it's magic and other nights it's I don't like what happened.


What is this? Why did they want me here? And and for me. So I felt the change drastically a few times. And one of those times was I had been booked to go on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. And I didn't know Stephen when they his producers came and said, we'd like we're wondering if you'd come on the show and just sit and talk for a bit. And I said, only if Stephen sees the show. And they're like, well, that's you can't make that promise.


And I was like, that's fine. I can't promise I'm on your show. But if you yes. If he sees it, then I'll go on. And if not, I'm sure you could find someone more important to have. And luckily he came and saw it and went on the show and it was it was fine. He's amazing and pleasant and basically told America to go see this show that none of them would ever end up seeing because it's a hundred and fifty people a night in a small office.


Almost impossible for us to get tickets, by the way. I think I spent a lot of money. Yeah.


So it was very nice, very, very amazing that they had this little little engine that could on. And people people came because they saw it, but it did not have the effect that we'd hoped because for the next few weeks my shows were absolutely ruined because because all of the people who watch Stephen Colbert came and it turns out that's not necessarily my audience. They were told that they what they heard was Stephen Colbert really like some magic show. We should go see it.


And boy, I have a one star rating on TripAdvisor because Stephen Colbert because and if you go to look at Google TripAdvisor, it's one started because people hated it because the their expectations were so skewed by just hearing, like, magic show knowing, you know, how fun Stephen Colbert is. And the comedy guy. Yeah. Comedy guy. Frank, orses attacks is probably going to be puppets, you know, and then they come and they see this thing and they're like, what the fuck?


What is this? This is ridiculous. And they're looking at their watch and, you know, ten minutes in and he still hasn't done anything. What's going on? So, yeah, there were nights where it wasn't what I would hope it would be. And but that's that's just that's part of any live performance. But particularly this because I asked for it like this is really it's very much part of the whole thing is how they see it and what, you know.


And so the same is true. It's really interesting. The same is true for the book entreats what would happen if someone would. So the book the book has these amazing waves in it where someone will take the book and they would write something poetic, beautiful and, you know, and it was usually not a writer. It was usually like like some lady who's just been in accounting for thirty five years and wanted an adventure. And she took it very seriously and writes this beautiful sonnet about the about the show.


And it's just magnificent. She reads it, it's beautiful. And then the next person who takes it saw that woman read that. So they take it knowing that and then holding this thing and going away and coming back and they feel that responsibility. And so you have these waves were like the entries are beautiful and and heartfelt and sincere and genuine. And then you get some asshole who doesn't take it seriously. Yeah. Does he just dicks around and does something totally selfish and uses it as an opportunity to be a joker on a stage or something.


And like that you just see the decline of the next century again is not as good because it's we base it on what we have seen and that's the the standard we're held to. And it takes someone to go, no, I'm going to I'm going to do something better. This deserves better. And they need to see it as something worthy of and they invest the time. And then again, it spikes up and you see people taking it seriously again and doing a building, trying to outdo one another.


And it's really that's when you get like the pop ups and people writing, composing music for it and the people who wrote only backwards, you have to hold it to a mirror to read the text, you know, is really incredible. And then you get some guy who's like, I just drew a picture of like Mickey Mouse with a huge whatever. And you're like it's like this is this is what you decide to do, how to enter this work.


So, yeah, it's open. It's so open that it does it does bite me in the ass sometimes and that it has negative, you know, obviously negative results and people don't deliver the way that we don't.


Right. You just weirdly like distilled, I think unintentionally, how live performance can sometimes, like, mess with your head.


I come from the late night world and I feel like you're you're weirdly demonstrating how every guy I've ever known in Late Night is like that's who I like.


That's who likes me, you know what I mean? Like, oh, wow.


You know what I'm really like? I mean, it was shocking because, like, I think Colbert is brilliant, like Objet objectively a brilliant person. And. Yes. And so when his when his people started doing that, it his people being like who? You know, and it's six people or whoever it was another fan. But if enough to change the chemistry in a room and I don't think it's I don't think it's called bear people. I think it's TV people like people who, you know, and I watch TV too.


So it's not even TV people. It's just it's a different it was a different form that we hadn't blown yet and called a group of people that we hadn't really seen at the theater yet. And they all came at once. And so it really changed the chemistry in the room. And we felt it. And it took a while to figure out what is what is happening right now. Thought it not so bad. I was like going back to like, am I in this show awful?


Are we just a bad show? And and everyone's kind of like, I don't know. And so eventually got to the point where I started, like, looking at tickets like where and where are these people coming from? And oh my God, this is this is the source. Yeah. And so so it was it was good to know and also very educational, like just knowing in the future, like, wow, if you do a thing like that, it's so big that it will change the shape of your thing.


Whatever that thing is, it's going to change it by by now you've you've let this out into the world in a way that you hadn't before and you're going to feel it one way or another, good or bad. It might be great, but you're going to feel it. Yeah.


The good news for you is that the people that are fans of us like to cry a lot.


That's my demographic. Yeah. They also they they they also, for the most part, really like magic. So they like magic.


And so you keep selling me on that like that matters.


Well particularly. And they like storytelling and matters. I love them ramble along and it might not matter to you but it matters to them.


And I'm like I'm not surprised by people who like magic. It's the people who don't like magic that I'm interested in talking to. So yeah, I would hope that people who enjoy magic would find this. It's the people who aren't interested that I'm interested in because they're the ones who need to see this. Yeah.


And it's obviously we talked about like we don't want to think of it as a theatre show, but it's all encompassing. It's not just magic. It's not just theatre. It's not just vulnerability. It's not just bravery. I think it's a little bit of everything. In the same way people walk into the theater and they pick up that little piece of paper, that's one of the nouns. They are, I think, the same thing. When you watch the show, you pick up what you need from you, pick up who you are.


Like, I think like that's not necessarily like I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer. But like, you pick up who you are. And I really hope that when people before they watch it, they listen to this because I think that knowing how hard people fight to like to write something shitty in the book when you could just be authentic, I think that that is something that I really appreciate how authentic they show people. But like, that's the thing.


It's so hard here. Some people are just shitty. Yeah, true. True. You know what I mean? Yeah.


Some people are not capable, I think, of the intimacy that happens. And, you know, when we're saying intimacy in conjunction with theater, a small New York theater, I think people think sitting close together. But I mean legitimately intimate in like I'm showing you something of myself, show something back to me. I think sometimes people just lock up and they will do anything, including making themselves to avoid a giant asshole to avoid it.


Well, that's that's yeah. That's it's just the truth is there. And yeah. And my job, I felt like I knew going into it, obviously people would have expectations of of being deceived and things like that. But I'm knowing that I knew I could just tell them the truth and they wouldn't believe any of it. I tell people beforehand what's going to happen through all I'm telling them in a moment you're going to open that up. And when you do, here's what you're going to see.


You know, for the letter I'm telling them before before it happens, which is very, very counter to if there was a such if there is such a thing as magic, it's counter to these things because you don't tell them to the surprise before you do it right. Because you can't really in most cases or you shouldn't because it takes away from the impact of it. But for me, I knew that telling them the truth would be them. They would deceive, deceive themselves.


If you hear a guy just telling the truth on stage, it's actually all they're hiding in plain sight. But we yeah, we come to it with, like, I don't know if that's true or I don't know if I believe that I can't really be the case. And it's like, well, OK, then you're going to then you're about to get hit with a sledgehammer when you find out that it is true, you know. Right. That's why it's so if I was dressed like a mailman and said, I have a letter for you, you probably wouldn't think much of it.


But because of the context, you don't believe it. And so that's what makes it impactful. And then it becomes more of an internal struggle than sort of a manufactured drama. It's real drama and conflict within yourself because you've just deceived yourself and you have to deal with it.


Has anyone ever had a reaction to one of those moments that you felt like ill equipped to manage in the moment?


The only thing that was I was, I guess, ill equipped for was I had two twin sisters take the book, one sister took it and she came back with her twin and they dressed alike. And we refused to tell me which one was which and. And then did a musical number that lasted about 10 minutes. Oh, my God, they brought boomboxes and and they they did they did the real professional but like rehearsed song and dance number, like this was their chance on Broadway and and God.


And I had I had two choices. I could stop it and. And obviously, like, thank them for their time or let them play it out as a as a person on stage in control of the situation, I had to make that evaluation. And they were so.


I don't want to say crazy, but they were so committed, no, no, no. Crazy day that I genuinely believe that it could get worse if I stopped it. It was so it was so deranged what was happening. And also and also so I was like and also was playing in my head was I asked them to do this. I they're only doing what I asked them to do because I don't give any limitations on what what your entry can be and how you contribute.


Right. And boy, was it a lesson learned. And and so so I, I just let it play out. But it played for it played for ten minutes. And Frank, Frank Oz was in the in the theater and about four minutes in he started filming from the back. So I had footage of it and it is spectacular because it's me. I took a seat, I sat down in one of the chairs and watched, along with this horrified audience of this bizarre Waiting for Guffman to ask, you know, musical number.


And and everyone thought I it was mine. Everyone thought I created it. This is the second night in New York. Oh, my God. So and like Ed Norton was there and David Blaine was in the audience and all these celebrities like David Blaine came.


Yeah, it was it was like all these different people were there that like I hoped it went well. And and and they're watching this thing and it's so crazy bad. They it's like Andy Kaufman, right. Level of entertainment. And everyone was convinced that I that it was part of the show. And this happens every night. And it didn't derail it, though. No, it did. Completely, completely did. So there was and there was nothing I could do to to.


It was kind of that was it. You know, they were let's put this way. They had the police called on them by the end of the production because they refused to leave. Wow. Because they like I don't know if they wanted payment or something, but it was it was bad. And so I like we have a lot of options to deal with, to deal with them. So I was ill equipped to deal with that. And but no one is equipped for that.


Nobody there's no way that that's that. And that's what you're asking people to come on stage and to and to sit there and have an experience. And you don't know in New York say they are in New York City. I went up. I was I got I got hit with a Frisbee for that mentalists.


Oh, my gosh. What's his name the other day? You know, mentalists.


Sure. What is his name? I don't this is great. So far.


I don't really care because it's amazing that you literally hit me in the fucking head and then I had to go up on stage and like, where was this in a big theater. Tommy Cale was producing it.


Oh, Darren. Darren. Darren, Dan Brown. Yeah. So Darren Brown's show in New York. Did you guys know this? That I got hit with a speech?


No, no.


I said you got hit with a four with always be in the head and there's as a person of. Of some note, you're in an awkward position because I'm like, I don't want this to then be about me. Do you know what I mean? Like, and people thinking that I'm anyway but also I'm a real magic bitch.


So I wanted to make sure I heard what was going to happen. You've been there. Yeah.


You know, and so I did. I did. And then he was asking me questions and my answers were really entertaining.


And he was like he clearly didn't know who the fuck I was, which is what I mean, who cares?


Yeah, but like, why does he women have so much confidence in the way 100 percent. Then afterwards, a lot of people like tweeted at me and deemed me like you were plant. Were you planted. They are part of the show.


And I was like, I wasn't. And it was fucking wild.


The trick that he did was cool.


But I don't know, I just feel like you never know what you're going to get on stage, you could get someone who's sure it's like that crazy.


Yes. I mean, it's out there in a play, but they don't have the script, you know. That's right. Yeah, sure. You're inviting a scene partner up and they don't know where it's going and they don't have the next line. Yeah. So it's it's a challenge.


My palms are so sweaty. If I'm hearing you tell this story, it was nerve racking.


Do do I miss doing it. Yeah, I. You miss doing it. No, I don't miss doing it. There are a couple of moments that I miss, but not not not yet as a whole. It almost killed me. So I'm really. Yeah, it's it's the hardest. Yeah. It's it's yeah. It's twice as hard as anything. You can't imagine it. You can't imagine how hard it magicians understand how hard it is if they understand because they understand what, what this might require.


But like it's it's a friend of mine says it's like, it's like, it's like riding a unicycle and juggling while having to like perform and they can't know that you're juggling or riding a unicycle. Like it's not just monologue, it's not just get up there in monologue and and do some acting. No, it's it's impossibly difficult to do. And it was really, really hard on me every single night. And so emotionally, intellectually, it's really draining.


And to not have it affect the performance was really difficult to make it look effortless because like, you just move Alattar around and, you know, you carry a book and you sit down to play with some cards. But other than that, how hard could it be? It's impossibly difficult.


It's like. Like you said, it almost killed you. I fully appreciate what you were willing to give for the show. I can fully understand I I did something in the show and it gave me a panic attack. I had to stop after two weeks, like for you to do that 700 times. I think that as you watch the movie, I hope that everybody out there should appreciate the amount of emotional vulnerability and to know that it's not just for 90 minutes, it's for for a long time after a long time before it's emotional vulnerability and creating it.


And then also one step further, filming it and then giving it to other people. So I really hope that, like, as people watch it, they, like, go in open so that they can appreciate and fully understand the vulnerability of the show and then hopefully leave being able or at least willing to try to do that themselves.


So thank you so much. It's really cool.


Yeah. Derek, I have one last question. How did you pick the noun's? How did you pick the things?


It was we got as many as we could and whittled it down, you know, so finding ones that would. Obvious ones like, you know, mother, father, son, no, brother, sister, and then and then more provocative ones like, you know, a masochist or a thief, things like that and metaphoric ones of, you know, pixie or things like that.


Nobody that part in the film is pretty.


Yeah, that's that's a brutal and that happened several times. There was a failure. Failure was the first first one I ever had. That was it was the first one, a negative one I ever had. And it was it it took me a long time to say it because I've never confronted with that before, where someone who chose something that you might perceive as negative. Saw themselves as that and wanted, you know, wanted recognition, recognition for that, and we just kind of stood there and had this moment and like.


There I started to water and I was feeling like I don't want to hurt, I don't want to hurt this person, you know, and and but but but I don't want to betray their decision. And so I so I call. So I called her a failure. And she she she said it's hard to describe the look, but the closest thing I've come to is like there are those scenes at the end of some movies where the hero kills the villain and the villain thinks the hero for killing them, like with their last breath.


And there's like a relief or a release of something in that death that that they're grateful for. That was what I experienced. That was a gratitude in that pain somehow. And some some for some reason that. That acknowledgement from another person, they were grateful for it in a way that I don't know. That's what they needed and it kind of wrecked me. After the show, I was talking to Frank about it. And I felt I felt that I was like, should I have done that?


Should I have? Should I have told them to sit down like a symptom or something, you know, make a decision and he agreed. It's like you couldn't do. You had. You couldn't betray their truth like you honored to have to the truth is always there. Yeah, and people want to be seen.


That's a huge thing that we talk about on this podcast, too, is that everybody wants to feel heard and everyone wants to feel seen.


And so I'm sure that person had had that experience of having people say, you're not that. You're not that. And so to have somebody say, like, I see what you think about yourself and like to have that moment is a relief.


Yeah, I would think. Yeah. And I don't I learned that from that day forward. I learned not to judge them, whatever. They they were hard sometimes, but I didn't I couldn't judge them regardless. There was a we had a couple of races that were chosen and stood proudly. So yeah. That changed, that changed the room a little. A lot.


I'm just going to guess. White men. Yeah. Both white men. Yeah. And so it was a while it was wild but like. That's what it was like, you have to honor whatever whatever their whatever truth they're living, you know, and and yeah, it's it's it's really hard sometimes to even if it's to see someone. Even if it's not what you want, you know, it's like you have to do it. Do you have a noun?


I chose the same card every night. So, yeah, I do, I do, I do the same part every night. What is yours? I don't I don't talk about it.


You don't talk about it? No, but I do. I do have. That's interesting. You get to keep one thing for yourself, right? The whole show, you give everything and then you get you get to keep a car. So I appreciate that.


Well, that's all I got. I see a secret. That's what I see. Yes.


Thank you so much for joining us. And for Congress itself is really such an incredible piece of art.


And I was writing my book when I saw it. Oh, and just so I just this is we don't have to put this in the podcast, but this is just I to tell you this. I was writing my book when I saw it, and my book was really personal, like deeply personal. And I had made a deal with myself in the beginning of writing a memoir that I would write everything and then whatever I didn't want to fucking publish.


I was right.


We would just take it out. And. It was hard it was hard to, like, face some really difficult things that, like, my parents didn't know that. People that loved me didn't know that I was going to, like, put in there. Mm hmm. And when I saw after I saw your show. And when you said, you know, every secret has a weight and you can only carry it. For so long, yeah.


I said to Mark after I left, I was like, it all stays a while and he was like, Cool, that's that's great to hear. Yeah.


So, you know, it really impacted me in a in an incredibly deep way. And and I'm really proud of my fucking book. That's good.


So that's probably why I mean, it's because you left you left it all out there. Right. Like you put it all out, put it on the stage. As I say, that's that's that's all you can do. That's good.


I'm happy for you that I mean, listen, it worked out. And then there were you know, some people weren't pleased about it. That's fine. They can go fuck themselves.


But I'm really looking forward to what you're going to do next someday, and me too.


I hope it defies expectations and I hope you have just as hard a time talking people into giving you money for exactly.


You know what I mean? Because, like, yeah, that's what I keep thinking about, is like, of course, people were reluctant to give you money. It was it's impossible to describe that.


That's right. And yeah, that's exactly right. That's how I know.


And making something as if people don't want to support it, because I swear to God, that's what Casey and I say all the time.


We knew that we had a really good idea when multiple people were like, well, that you can't do that, can't do that. You're like, oh yeah. No, we can.


Yeah. I mean, I heard that a lot creating the show. I heard many times along the way you can't do that. Like, why would you do that? And so yeah, that's right. And of course that's makes me run faster towards it, whatever that is. Yeah.


That's how, you know, you're on the right track. And by the way, I do want to say something because we're talking about how moving this is and how, you know, just personal and emotional it is.


But also you're you're very funny, Derek. Yeah, thanks. I think it's like for me, that's what I like. Sometimes I really get into something, but if it's super emotional, like, I just feel like I might not be able to make it through this. I might need to take a break. And so the fact that you had humor and that you were funny throughout was like like a little bit of a relief.




I mean, it's a people, right? People are complex. They're they're not just, you know, I mean, at least interesting ones. They're not. Yeah. One note, they're funny on one day they're maybe a little sad the next we like to say a bitch contains multitudes.


I go and I, I mean I if you were to ask me what I wanted to do when I was a kid, I would have said a comedian. I would have said I want him to be obviously a standup. But I didn't it was I don't think the social aspects of it were interesting to me or something. I just didn't. You dodged a bullet.


Maybe you don't want to. Yeah, but yeah, I you know, that was but I didn't realize that what I was actually interested in was, was, you know, people with points of views. So like the comedians that I liked were the ones with very specific points of views. And I, I just like people who said something, you know, and that turned out it was in multiple mediums. Later I'd find out like, oh, it's it's it's the same thing.


It's just the what tool do they pick up to make a thing, you know. But yeah.


I'm friends with Paul F. Tompkins. Yeah. He's the he was the first show I did in L.A. was that it was his show was the first time Larker performed like did a show in a public space was was for the Paula Tompkins show.


Well that's how I knew to come to your show was Paul. Oh great. Oh right. Yeah. I had come and seen it. Yeah I did like Amy Mann's shows and. Yeah but it was really hard because I respect those people so much and I want them to, you know, I wanted them to like my work a lot and I felt that was know was part of what made it challenging is that I knew that. In order for them to like what I did, I would need to change what I'm doing and to really to like they liked it enough to obviously have me be a part of their shows or something.


But I knew it wasn't there. I knew it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. Right. Because the medium was was shaping the message. And the the context was forcing me to be a type of performer that I didn't necessarily want to be or should be maybe. And so I had to even like even those shows which were like considered privileges to be a part of I had to remove myself from and not not be a part of those types of shows anymore because they were even though I respect those people so much, it was detrimental to my mental well-being because I so badly wanted to be.


I respect comedians and musicians and artists so much that I, I don't I want them to like what I do. And I just never felt like what I did was worthy of of of sharing a stage with them. Because, you know, it's not meant for what I do. It's just not you know, now I. I feel like I'm fine having them come see me do something because it's this is what I do. But I had to break away from what they do.


And I was trying to do what I do in their house and in the world and trying to fit in. And and that's just I had to create my own world and not be a part of theirs. And I needed to be OK with that. So it a lonely process, but because because like, Largo was like the place to be and like, if you're at Largo, you're you're somebody. And I was twenty five so I don't know, in my 20s and I was getting to perform at Largo regularly and it was great.


But like I never felt proud of those performances ever. I never felt good about them. I never felt good about any of the performances I was doing because they were performances, they were performances, they didn't do anything they like. I was just a commercial break or something, you know, they didn't they had no effect in. And I don't know, it was just fine.


They didn't move the needle toward anything.


Yeah, it was fine. Great. Another person who does a thing that's neat, you know, it's fireworks cool. But it didn't, did it? Even if I tried to say something. Or or because, like, if you're a comedian, you can say something relevant and people will hear it even though you're a comedian. Yeah. You can't say something relevant and be known as a magician. Are you kidding? Like, that's not a thing that we and if we do, it's usually in some pseudo intellectual way of like, oh, he understands how the mind works or he understands how deception.


So it's strictly trickery. And so it's usually like a TED talk on deception or some shit like that. Like we can't talk about, you know, how you you can't talk about feelings or the world or like how something you know, the challenges you see or things like you can, observations you can't make, observations about the world. Don't do the trick. And so I found myself like just having to do the trick. And that's not what that's not what ever interested me.


And so I had to just stop doing the tricks. I really deeply Derrick, to you and your journey and and I'm so glad that you got to talk to us today and that you got to do a show where you don't have to just do the tricks you do so much more than just the tricks.


Do you think maybe that should be your Merche? I got a T-shirt or something. Yeah, yeah. So much more than just the tricks. All right, we'll get you a sweatshirt.


I might I might send you a sweatshirt that says so much more than just the tracks. Thank you. I appreciate it. We're huge fans.


We love the show in and of itself. Thank you. Now, finally, for everybody to see, people were really mad at me. I posted about it and they're like, it's sold out. I can't see it. Why did you do this?


I'm like, Listen, guys, it's not my fault that you're slow right now.


Everyone can see it.


It feels like people are seeing it, too. It's not. So I have no comparison. I've never put anything into the world like this. But it's nice to know because, you know, one hundred and fifty people at a time when I was used to it. But now I think more people have probably seen it already than did the entire run of the show. Wow.


Well, I want you to also start checking your inboxes on your social media platforms, because I would bet money that people will start to share with you in very deeply personal ways. Oh, that's cool.


If you're into that. If it is or if it isn't, I don't know. I think it I think it's interesting.


I think it's endlessly interesting, like how people's stories and how they share them is endlessly interesting.


Yeah, but it's it's it's nice that if it has some sort of if it resonates with people, it's nice. Well, I think it definitely will. I mean, I think it does. I think it's exciting. It has. I think it is. I think it will.


Well, it's all encompassing. Yeah, it's all happening. All right, Derek, go enjoy your evening.


Thank you so much, ladies. I appreciate it. It's very nice to meet you. Thank you so much. OK. All right. We'll talk soon. Thank you.


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Best. Well, that talk with Derek was amazing. I hope that you all are able to check out in and of itself, and if you. Do if you listen to the interview and then you decide to check it out, maybe even want to go back and listen to it, I thought it was interesting.


Like I. Wasn't ever planning on asking him, like, how would you do the tricks like fucking terrorist, because that's not the thing that was most interesting to us, to me personally. But but people who knew I was interviewing him.


OK, just Mark, but Mark was like Mark was like, did you. Was he real cagey? And I was like, no, he wasn't cagey at all.


Like he was very I felt like he was very open. Yeah. Yeah.


I think that show leaves you, like, really raw anyway. So, like, I don't think you could do it for that long and not be an open person. That kind of stuff changes you.


Yeah. Yeah. I liked him, he he was he was sweet, he had. Sweet guy vibe. Yes, he's just like a nice man and, you know, I don't like them. So I will say, like I related I really deeply to a lot of.


Thematically, the stuff that, like Derek was dealing with and a lot of the things that he was even saying just in our talk, like I was thinking about how, you know, post my, like, Instagram stories and everything, like how that was the thing that really, like, opened up my career. And people have asked me, like, you know, there have been like I did a lot. I've done a lot of interviews in which people have asked me, but also just like people that I'm friends with, like actors or other performers who want to.


I don't now get paid post, get in on that. I didn't write whatever train or whatever that is like. How do you do it? Like, how do you. How do you do it, and I feel like. The thing that he said about. Like knowing that he was entering into the space where he was like asking people. To join him in something meant that, like he had to be as vulnerable and open as possible, otherwise it was it was unfair.


And so I feel like that's like I relate deeply to that because, you know, you talk about like the idea of, like, authenticity online or whatever, and it can get really tricky because. Because then authenticity in and of itself, like becomes its own commodity, right? Yes, it's like people are striving for and it's also a question of like, can you be authentic and still reserve something that's private for yourself? Like, I I think I can.


But I think that a lot of people might say, well, if you're not giving everything, then you're not being authentic.


Yeah, but what do you think his noun is? Magician, and he even gets a magician, I don't know what it is, but I also think that, like, I appreciate the I always think that there's some stuff you should keep to yourself. I think that we give away too much in the yeah.


Right now. I think that social media has us and I think it's really important for some people to give away some things. But I think that you should always have something that's just yours. And like I don't know if that's in the show, I think that helps. But like just in life, like if you come home and like you, you like The Bachelor, that's just something for yourself. And that card, he gives his whole self in that show and that card is the one thing he keeps for himself.


I think it's really healthy to have always have one thing that's yours. Yeah.


I mean, I will say like that also is like. But that's been another like that was another thing that I fully fuckin related to, because I do feel like people have often said to me, you share everything on your podcast online, blah, blah, blah, blah.


But I don't like. I don't. You can't. I don't. I shouldn't. I don't. And I do think it's like interesting.


You know, a lot of people were like, very surprised when I spoke about Berdy. And what they've been going through and like that's not new, like that's been going on for a period of time and I would be fine, like I didn't it was, you know, I'm glad we were able to share about it, but. I were able to keep I'm able to keep things for myself, you know, even and being open and that I feel like it doesn't negate.


The truth of like the openness that I have, yeah, doesn't mean that what you're sharing is dishonest. It just means that there are things, certain things that you're not sharing. I'm the same. I'm exceedingly private. I do share a lot. But there are some things that I'm very, very private about.


And it's not even like. It's it's yeah, it's what's Shinta saying, it's not even like I'm not ashamed of it, it's not that I'm like it's none of your business. It's just some things that I just keep to myself because I just do.


I also think that people think that because they wouldn't share it, that when someone else shares it, it's too much.


But, you know, that's that's what. Yeah, but we're not the same. So people will be like, I can't believe you shared that. And you'd be like you might not be able to share it, but I can feel like we all have I think about like stand ups and just performers in general, like people like I can never get on stage and do that well, like that's my job. So like. Right. I'm willing to share those beyond what you're willing to share, but also like that's what we're here for.


We're all here on different journeys.


So I do think that before the next time you go, I can't believe you're sharing too much. Just because you would share it doesn't mean it's too much.


Right. And sometimes I'm like, I can't believe I shared that, but you just did I want to do in that moment and I did. Yeah, and now you see. Most times I can't believe that you're just sitting in the pit. And what can I do? And you don't have a ring? I do have a light, but it's just it was light when we came in here and now it's darkness.


So can I say before we move on, I just learned something. It's called a vulnerability hangover. And it's. Oh, yeah. If people don't know it's when you, like, share something and then after you share it, you like, think about it and think it was like the wrong thing to do. And a lot of people have been having vulnerability hangovers right now because usually when you share something like you like go to a bar, are you like go out to eat or you like watch TV.


But now when you share something, you just have to go home and think about it. So if you have been feeling like I've been over sharing it, it probably is it that it's probably you have a vulnerability hangover because you're not doing all the things that pick up the space that is being replaced by you overthinking what you said.


So there's something that's a good yeah, I know your name. Brown is the one that sort of coined the term vulnerability hangover.


And I first heard about it. Around when my book. Was coming out and and a few people checked in on me and were like, just so you know, like what's about to happen to you, it may cause a vulnerability hangover. And you might you might start to feel real fucking bad for a minute.


And I 100 percent did. I had a heart attack in such an intense it was for real and it sucked and like it was really hard.


Well, especially in the form of a book, when you've been vulnerable in the form of a book, it's like I don't I don't know, book break for anyone that's never written a book before.


You you work on it for a really long time and you agonize over every word. And actually, I'm sure you're the same when you're writing TV, agonize over every word, choosing very carefully what you want to say and how you want to say it.


And it takes so long and it really feels like it feels like giving birth or like climbing a mountain or whatever. And then you release this very vulnerable work out into the world and people are like, Oh, I got your book.


I loved it. I couldn't put it down. I read it in two hours.


Right? Oh, that's it. Yeah. Yeah.


Or like the person who shall remain nameless but who is my enemy now said to me, yeah, I read your book.


There was a lot in there. Oh, my God, what a rude fucking bitch. What? That person's noun.


But I know that's too nice, that's too generous because I I enjoy being a bitch myself sometimes. Well, guys, we have an advice. We have an advice thing. Should we read it? We have time. All right, hello, lovely ladies. I recently found out my sister is pregnant and she is my best friend and we currently live states apart from each other and visiting is not the easiest. Yes, we feel you on that. Yes.


When I heard she was pregnant, I knew in my gut this was the push I needed to finally move near her. Since then, I've broken up with my shitty boyfriend and started packing. My mind was set. But then when I told my job, which I love, they were devastated and made me an incredible offer, a once in a lifetime opportunity. I'm a Capricorn and very work and success driven, and this offer honestly makes me feel like I'll finally achieve what I've always wanted.


It's a dream come true and serious money they want me to commit to at least two years. Now I'm torn. Two years.


I'm so fucking excited about this baby. I already love them more than anything. My sister thinks I should take the job since babies don't even remember shit, but I yearn to be near them. My job has told me they will grant me up to two months off a year to visit with the baby.


Oh, no, I'm going to cry any help would be greatly appreciated, saying, Sabrina, Sabrina, take that job, take that job job.


You pick that job, that that job loves you as much as your sister. It sounds like, you know what I mean. Like, that is so rare there, really.


It sounds like they're really making an effort to keep you and keep you in a way that's happy and and like your beloved there. And it sounds like you deserve it.


And they're giving you two months to see the baby a year to month off for vacation, a year to go see your baby, your sister's baby and your sisters. Right. That baby is not going to remember shit. You're that baby's not going to really remember it. But your sister. Here's what I will say. Like I as a sister. You had a baby. Leon lived in L.A. when I had when I had Birdie and I had a really tough time and Leon lived like on the other side of the four or five.


So lay people like it was a journey for Leon to come see me. But she really made it like a priority to see me.


And so the times when. She would it felt really special, like I was so grateful for all of the times that she that I knew she was like exhausted and came to see me anyway. And I feel like that listen, travel is really tricky right now. I get it.


But I feel like the same will be true for you with your sister. Hopefully the world will everybody will get vaccinated. The world will start opening up again. And then maybe you're just like a Southwest flight away, you know? And like, I feel like you'll make just from reading your letter, I feel like you'll make the effort to be there as much as you can. Yeah. And I think your sister knows that. And it sounds like she's also like.


Take the fucking job, you know. I think one of the things the top thing you did was break up with your boyfriend, very proud. Yes, we are. We don't need no problem. Not that way. I am not in twenty twenty one now.


I am not a mother or a sister who has had a baby, but I am a fun black auntie. And let me tell you something right now, if they give you hell of money in two years, you know when that baby can really start remembering you, you're going to be the rich funny. And that's the fucking thing to do, baby. Like also I like to think about, like, what makes you happy. And I think that sometimes when you're doing something like if you were to move home, you can become resentful for missing the opportunities that you leave.


And like, I know that, like, you sound like such a wonderful person, but I don't want any part of you to feel resentful towards your sister or your sweet little baby for leaving your job in the middle of this pandemic. I really think that, like, it's been a really hard year and you want to get as close to them as possible. But also even right now, when your sister has that baby, like who knows what's going on out here in these streets, like, you might not be able to see them as much as you want anyway.


And you've lost your job. Right. So I really do think that you should do your job, make health a bank, take those to make the job of those two months off, and then go see the baby when it's like real good.


And like, he can hold his own head to head up and you can smell the top of his head and then and then have all your fucking money and then move there later. But I totally think that, like, it's an opportunity for you to be like the most fulfilled auntie that you could possibly be.


And I think that that you actually should do, because that's that's also part of being a good aunt, by the way, is like being an example of how someone can be happy and live the life that they want to live. And that's really important for a little kid to see. And so, you know, you can zoom with that baby every night. You can read bedtime stories to that baby through technology, which you guys want to know something cute.


Wow. Michelle's baby fully knows me and like my voice, that's so cute, and it's just from all of the hours that we've been on like this time and I've been on speakerphone. Yeah, while Michelle was pregnant. And then when the baby was little and as soon as I met that baby. I and that baby looked at me and like I was like, oh, oh, it's you. Oh, I'm so happy. I'm so happy that you're here because that is true like that, baby.


Just my voice is like in that baby's little little brain. Yeah. Yeah.


So you can just do all the anti things you want to do using technology. It's a modern baby of twenty, twenty one and it will love anything you do for it. And, but also that baby already loves you back as much as you love that baby. And that baby I bet would want you to lead your happiest life.


That baby wants you to also as someone who has like I have like seven aunts, aunties that like to give you money, just fucking so just throwing that out there. As a niece who's had some cool aunt to say, that's pretty cool.


So, Sabrina, good luck to you. Keep us posted on what you decided to do and keep us posted on the baby.


Yeah, we love babies up here. We love them. Well, guys, thank you. We didn't keep sending those merch pics. I love them. It's they're so cute, so cute. And everyone looks so cute.


Best smiles. A lot of you cut your heads off, which I get it, but I do. I love it when I get to see your faces. Me too. Please subscribe. Download. There are podcasts, I see some I see you when you share our podcast. I love it. It's nice. We appreciate it. I sure do. I guess this is just how things happen. I don't fucking know. Yeah. I mean, you got to you know, it's weird, right?


Because we were just talking about how we just want to do a good thing and not have to worry about the business side of anything. And we're just talking to Derek about, like, how you want to make this great art, but also, like, smash that subscribe.


But yeah, not that this podcast is great art, but we just want to put something into the world that's lovely.


But it only exists by the grace of you and smash subscribe button.


Well, that's the other thing that I forgot to say that I like to you guys that I deeply really I was going to take up the interview by whatever. But like, I reach that point where I was like I would much rather do paid posts on Instagram and not have to take a shitty acting job in something where I'm like. I'm not feeling this this character sucks, like, you know what I mean? Like, to me, it's so much more worthwhile to, like, be able to hold out her.


Acting jobs like girls, bye bye bye. I'm obsessed with and really get into it then to like. Have to just take some terrible yeah show that's going to make me feel bad about myself, right? Yeah, and so I'll sell you some stuff online, I promise you, I'm only going to sell you stuff that I either have used myself or I've tried and I like I really that is my one promise in all my selling of shit is that I really do try everything.


And if I don't like, I have turned things down, guys. I have turned them down, I believe. And I will say that is true.


I know I know that to be true of you. And I would totally tell everyone that you are lying if you were in. You're not.


I don't like that I've gotten some fuckin things. I'm like, no, I don't. But I'm also saying that's what I'm saying. And by the way, I've even seen you be like, oh, I kind of like this thing. And then somebody will say, like, oh, you know, what's the problem with that thing? And then you, like, reconsider it. And so.


Well, Emily, baby is always my arbiter of, like, things that are controversial, although she did not warn me that one time that I did a paid post for milk.


But that big dairy, the big dairy was going to come after people like mad about big dairy. We're going to come after me. And she's like, I honestly didn't know.


I said, because Emily Beeby is like so she's like so aware of everything and she like research. His company is really quickly because her whole job is research. Guys, if you didn't know that now you do Emily Beeby as a researcher.


And so I'll be like, hey, is this company problematic? Because they asked me to do a paid post and I like I'm into it. But if it's problematic, obviously I'm out. And then she'll write back like it did have a discrimination lawsuit in 2012. It seems like they handled it very well and bla bla bla bla bla. But like that's my impression of Emily. But but but the dairy but the milk one that I did a couple of years ago, I really got some major backlash by people about big dairy.


And I said to Emily, I was like, what the fuck, dude? You said it was vantages like, I forgot about victory. I'm a vegan. So she's never tangled with big dairy.


Well, but she just was like, yeah, I don't know, I forgot. I guess I just forgot about anything that has to do with agriculture. You remember when those cattle cattle farmers sued Oprah about saying she was never going to eat a hamburger again?


I swear to God, those are the only people that have ever almost taken Oprah down was big cattle.


Right. So, you know, it's weird. Where does milk come out of Cattle's girlfriends? I guess so.


But like but the people who are coming after me were like the people that were anti big dairy. Yeah, yeah.


You know what I mean. But they they're so tough because they've had to fight the dairy gang.


And it's also funny whenever anyone like comes after me for Olé because they're like blah blah blah blah blah.


And guys, this is like we might have to cut this out, but like, can I just be honest with you, I've tried everything. And you know what? My shit breaks out so bad. Olé is the SPF is like the only one that has never caused me to break out. Yeah. I love working with Olé! But Olé doesn't they're not they don't shy away from the fact that like they have. You know, researchers and scientists in labs whose job it is to study skin and to, like, figure out how to best replicate the things that your skin needs to regenerate or whatever, blah, blah, blah.


Right. Like they're like very into science.


Yeah. STAMOULIS Come on. A skin training right now.


I'm going to. Oh, you are getting your I'm getting my writing program in my skin program. Ready you guys. Last year we did a lot of body work. Now we're working on the skin in the game. How many steps I have. I ordered some stuff. I think it's like cleansing exfoliate toner. I got serum moisturizer oil that goes after the moisture like it's all it's all coming.


But I got a couple of things, so I got some stuff coming and I'll keep you guys posted.


I look forward to it.


I love a glass skin moment.


Yeah, I'm definitely like just a huge fan of multiple stop. Yeah. Yeah right.


I like up up to eleven I think is pretty is. Oh yeah.


Especially if it's um if you're doing toner in between every hour for sure. Well I'm a big toner bitch. I believe in toner deeply. Well do you have.


Because I've been like looking into what type of skin I have. You know, it's like if you have loose skin tone is really great obviously because it tones it. And then if you have what is it like resistant skin, the toner it does makes it shiti.


Yeah, it makes it too tight.


So like I've been like oh that's interesting. So like I've been really kind of delving also like skin, like my skin tight because like a lot of shit is just for white people so.


Oh for sure. Like for sure. Like a hundred thousand people love this and they'll be like one hundred thousand white girls. My skin is different. So just like checking in on stuff that would go good on my skin and that feels good. So I'm getting new lotion you guys. I'm really just trying new shit. I love it.


You're just getting into it. I recently have started putting an oil on my face. That's a new turn of events for me.


I've always shied away because historically speaking, I've been prone to breakouts, um, but moving in a different direction.


And we're always, always learning new information, including about things about our skin and things that were verboten when, you know, five years ago. Turns out they're actually great for you, you know, but like that thing is that thing is kind of annoying to me.


Sometimes when I do those posts, when people are like. But like, how could you. Blah, blah, blah, and it's like maybe, I don't know, I got to send these kids to school to pay my rent like I did actually, because it's OK.


Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't. Right. Somebody else should do. That's what I was.


What you're describing is probably exactly how people feel when I'm like, these clothes are cute. You should make them in three excel, you know what I mean? Probably like, oh, Jesus Christ, this one, you know, like every every fucking time this ad comes on or, you know, it's OK. It's just but it's you just have to recognize that not everybody feels as passionate about every facet of everything.


Well, that also it's like 90 percent of the time.


Any time it's like about L.A. and then somebody is like giving me shit about clean beauty. Then you go to their page and they're a part of some Ponzi scheme where they sell some clean.


I mean, I'm like, honey, I can't like I'm not asking for your samples of your fucking shit, you know what I mean? Anyway. Oh, bless class up guys. I subscribe, but.


Yeah, that's right. That's right. Thank you, Santa. You're putting us back on track maps that subscribe button. Tell us how we're doing.


Our email, which I can't find right now.


What does a busy doing her best at Gmail dot com. Busy doing her best at Gmail dot com. There's still Mirch available. I said it like it was the limit. It's not it's not that I don't remember sell out, it's it's because we make it to that's a greener way of doing things because we were trying to be considerate of our environment, which should make the clean Puti people very happy.


Yeah, they'll be mad about something. So everybody's everybody's going to be mad about that. Yes. Um, guys, I love you.


Love you. Yes, we love you. And we'll talk to you soon. We'll talk to you next week. Seems too long, but OK. Have a great week, everybody. Have a great week, I.