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He was like looking at me, contemplating it when he said it, like he's doing something deep, that if my own my personality was just a lot, that was what it was. My personality was just so much like it was like too much. I'm too animated when I talk. I'm too, like, excitable and I like fucking it up and like, swallowed it and digested that shit and then pooped it out and but still, like, I took the nutrients from it.


Do you know what I mean? Is that a good analogy? Yeah, well, everybody, here we are, we have almost all but made it New Year's Eve, New Year's Eve, Eve, a day that for some of us I think this year maybe seemed like.


Will we get there? I don't know. I mean, will we there's still time, there's still time, Shinta. And you know what? That is a real good point. That is a really good place to time. Let us not have hubris.


Well, I have no hubris at this point. Guys, welcome to you. Busy. Phillips is doing her best. I am busy. Philipps I'm joined by KC St. Onge. I'm joined by Shinjiro Jackson. Hello. And I would say that doing your best.


Is one of the themes of 20 20. Today, we're going to do a little bit of a recap we don't have anyone to talk to, no interview is happening because we wanted to just talk with you guys.


You yeah.


You told take in your walk in your car trying to get a moment of fucking peace in this damn world. Before midnight tomorrow night. When the clocks change and probably not much else for a while, I'm not going to lie. Yeah, let's not get crazy. No, it's also it's very arbitrary. Also a very weird time, just like even if we weren't doing pandemic stuff like the first happens. But then, like, you don't go to work for like three days, it's like just like a weird like, all right, it's new year.


So I guess I'll just like I'll wait till Monday.


I, I super hate New Year's Eve.


I like one time I said it was like the holiday equivalent of not knowing what to do with your arms. Yeah. Like what are you supposed to do. You just wait. It's just like you wait and you wait for there to be a party.


But this year is just like but also I have fallen asleep a million times before that.


But I was just thinking yesterday centera I don't remember the last time I stayed up past midnight really like with well at work I was working but like if I had my way I would have been asleep at least an hour earlier.


I hired we're tired. I just and it's, it's just weird at New Year's Eve is weird. I used to love it when I was a kid because it was my parents' wedding anniversary for the ten years that they were married. They eloped on New Year's Eve. So it was always like a big family party where we'd get Chinese food at my grandparents house and like. But yeah, I mean, post my parents getting divorced.


New Year's Eve is just a real bummer.


That's really heavy. That's really heavy because I was like, I don't know. I just, you know, the last time I really thought about New Year's, like I was like, well, it's New Year's was I was really young. It was nineteen ninety nine. And I remember getting up and being like, oh my God, I have to be awake for it to turn year 2000. And then it like happened. And then I think that like NBC had the ball drop and they played Prince and I was like yeah that makes sense.


And then it was like twelve or two. And I was like, I was like twelve. So like I was a kid. I grew up. There's nothing to do. My parents were fully asleep. And then I was like, this was important. And that's the last New Year's where I've been like, I got to be awake. I have a boyfriend.


Did you did you think that why took that like you, it was all going to the world was going to like, implode.


I was curious to see what was happening because I knew that, like, my parents weren't, like buying a bunch of food and like hoarding or anything.


It was just like and also this was like when computers were kind of popular in school. So in nineteen ninety nine I was twelve. So like I was in middle school and like we were having computer class and it was like a lot of talk of like all the computers are going to be like Oregon Trail for real.


And we were like, well we're going to come to school, all the computers are going to be broken. And we nothing was broken. Like, I remember just being like the lights are going to go off. I want to be awake, something's going to happen. And then like nothing happened, I went to sleep, we went back to school and everything was fine.


So I was just like, oh, OK, well, all those people was wrong. And then I just kept going. I kept going. See, seventh grade. I mean, Casey, you were presumably living in New York City already?


Yes, I was at my mom's house in Massachusetts, but I Gentium was twelve. I had a baby. I had just had a baby in nineteen ninety nine.


And so I just remember I put him in a little nineteen ninety nine like space age once and just stared at him like he was on the floor of my mom's condo asleep.


And then I just stared at him as it became the year two that I went to a party in Los Angeles with a bunch of friends that Mike White from Freaks and Geeks was throwing. I wore a really unfortunate hot pink sequined cowboy hat.


That's cool. It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't. That's cool.


What sunglasses? Yeah. Styles's. Oh, really? Oh, my goodness, guys, I was sent some free shit, and apparently one of the things I was sent were these sunglasses that are way too small for my face because, you know, I got the biggest face of all time. Burty just marched in here interrupting the podcast to let me know that the sunglasses were by Gemma Styles, Harry's sister.


So I'ma make any Doorly at you right now.


I know this is a podcast and those at home can't see, but I'm just I just that dynamic and my rabbit is driving.


Your rabbit is vibing in the background.


I thought bunny hops by having a family in an apartment in New York City is my my you have my complete respect having like I have to say, I've, uh.


I was thinking yesterday about like this, obviously, we're all doing a little bit of reflection, I should imagine, if you're not also, though, that's fine.


You don't have to if you want to be like, I don't I don't want to. I get it because, like, some people have some fucked up shit happen to them. And you know what? If I was, you really got to reflect.


Just don't like I would say yes. Yes, of course. However, I do think that there's validity for all of us in this collective moment to to think I mean, just just to, like, process, you know what I mean?


Because even if you were a person who, like, had the most fucked up shit happen this year, you lost someone to covid or you were in I mean, there's so many you lost your job. I don't even fucking know. Like, there are so many people have struggled in so many different ways.


The bingo card is we should retire it. People are like, I don't have this on my bingo card. The same bingo. There's nothing no one had anything right.


But also like it's also like, I guess you guys watch Soul.


Yeah, I did. I watch. So I watched Soul and Wonder Woman. I love that. I loved soul. I didn't watch Wonder Woman yet, but I never saw the first one. But that's about it. It's all right.


Don't know what I mean. Yeah. It's just like, you know what I was saying, like soul we can talk about soul. The one thing I want to say about Wonder Woman is everyone's, you know, saying like, oh, it was terrible. It didn't make any sense. Here's what I will say about Wonder Woman is that it was in a way like such a mess that I appreciated it because it wasn't formulaic.


I was kind.


It's I won't say it's good, but I didn't know what was interesting.


Yeah. I don't think I was like I finished it and I wasn't mad, you know what I mean? Because I know that I've watched movies and I've been like, what the fuck?


And I have left the movie before and I can't remember which one it was, but it was in L.A. and I thought the movie was like a comedy and it was going to be like an hour and a half, you know, 90. And we put money in the meter and then an hour and a half the movie was still going. And then we were like, we should just go to the car.


So it wasn't that bad. I thought it was cool. And like, I only saw one white man really. And that was Chris Pine and up the white man that I get to see. I was enjoying him. I mean, he's everybody knows that Chris Pine is like if you're if you have to be a white man. He's like one of the one of the the best white men to be one of the top two. Absolutely. Who's the other one?


Evans for sure. I think Chris Evans and Chris Pine are like neck and neck. And Charlie Evans is cute, too, right?


Yeah. I mean, like good like not problematic ish that we know of.


I think I always say that we know of. We know exactly. That's never going to be surprised. We'll never be surprised that if you watch Wonderwoman there's a he just looks good in clothes. And I said this. Yeah. I was like, you know, what I'm going to take away from this is I think I'm trying to dress like Chris Pine in 1984.


It's just like a cool sneakers, comfortable pants, a fanny pack.


I'm on board. I love that. I love that for you. I like that evolution of your style. It feels like a natural progression.


I'm here for it. I can't wait to see 20, 21 Chinta. I have this. I have the same size boobs as Crispi now, so I'm going to make some moves. Honestly, probably. I'm making sure that my door is closed and my door is closed. But anyway, like I just Hecht's his pecs and my boobs are about the same size. Yeah, well he works at that, you know, I just feel like I don't know, I just feel like there's there are things to take away even in this and especially in this kind of year.


Like it's never the years were like, shit's great, you know, that like you can walk away having I mean, generally having learned something or feel like you had like a greater understanding of some big question shit.


And like, I brought up the movie Soul because I feel like that movie coming out this year.


I mean, obviously those Pixar movies take fucking forever to make. Right. You know, like. Yeah, absolutely.


It's not like that movie was just like slapped together during covid because they want they know people are like struggling with sort of the bigger existential questions and started that movie Midnight nineteen ninety nine, like breaking the story and they started seven or eight years ago.


I just feel like I mean I just feel like it's the timing of it is sort of perfect for this moment. Absolutely. If you guys haven't watched it, you can watch it for sure. It's streaming because we're not going to movie theaters because they're still a pandemic, guys.


And I know a lot of people are saying, like, oh, I don't have it's on Disney plus, I mean, when you think about it, you could just subscribe to Disney plus for one month and it'll be like cheaper than if we could go to the movies.


If you're really in a tight spot. So subscribe for a week, make sure you set an alarm and unsubscribe and get that free trial and keep it moving.


That is a hot tip. I love that. Well, I thought the movie was really fantastic. And it's a Pixar movie. And, you know, I like the evolution of Pixar.


Mark and I had a little bit of an argument about it because he felt like he preferred when Pixar was more allegorical and using like toys and puppets to tell big picture stories.


And I like I like InsideOut and I like this movie, which literally deals with people's souls and like, what does it mean and why are we here and what does it mean to have like a spark and what does it mean to have passion?


And what is your life like? What is your fucking life at the end of the day?


And because I also thought what is so great about it for me is that they didn't answer any questions. They sort of left it open, like you can have discussions about what you take away from it.


But they also do not leave you like sobbing hysterically at the ending, which I greatly appreciated.


Yeah, because I hate those fucking kids movies where you're just, like, devastated.


Well, it was the first time. Well, I stayed true to form one of the leads parents was dead. Like that is never gonna change. One of the parents of a lead has to have passed away. And all these cartoon movies, that guy's dad that probably just like but at this point, like, we're not going to animate a whole.


But he's an adult.


So it's like it's I mean, he's like a full, full fledged grown up. So it's not like it's not as it's not like Bambi's mom being, like, shot in front of you. Right.


But boy. I guess I think so, I think in my mind, there is a baby, a baby girl, Doe Dumbo is a baby girl.


Please, Disney people do not come at me. I know the truth. But this is just what I their babies, all baby animals are girls to me. So that's just something about what gender? The gender is a construct.


So why do I see the owl and it's a baby? I'm like, look at that baby girl. And then if I see, like a full fledged owl, I'm like, that's a man. So you have, like, come from Animal Kingdom. I was like I was like, oh, my God, I was so big. Or if I see the owl's legs, I'm like, that's a man.


Oh, well, I posted a picture of my dogs on Instagram and somebody was like, oh, he's so cute. And I was like, it's a she. And then the person was like, oh my God, I'm sorry for Miss Gendering, your dog.


And I was like, Yeah, we're good. Yeah, it's all right.


Well, she's not after we watch Thole speaking of which, so after we watch Soul, I took a bath and then the bath is still broken and my in the primary bedroom where like our bedroom bathroom, which is you know, for me it's a real fucking bummer.


Again, a New York apartment life. My heart goes out.


I don't want to talk to you here, but but I so I had to go. I went into the girl's bathroom and I was taking a bath in there. And then I just, like, heard Harry Styles fine line up playing really loudly on Rippey.


If you guys don't know that song is a bit of a sad banger. Yeah.


And and then I got out of the bath and went in and the lights were all out and Byrd was lying just like on the floor in the dark listening to flightline on repeat.


And I had a real flash of myself as a pretty just really a scene like she really real tampoe.


She's a real teen. Yeah. And so I.


Laid down on the floor as well, and I was like, are you all right? Like, do you want to talk about anything, Birdie?


You said it's just I feel like. I'm alive, but I'm not really living, you know, and I just want the living part to start. And. I got really emotional because I said, well. First off, welcome to being my daughter, but I want to say this to you, because I wish somebody would have said this to me like this is living. You can't wait for it to start. You can't think. When I moved to L.A. and I get that TV show that will be then my life will start.


You can't think that was what I thought, guys. That's not what she's thinking.


You can't think like when if if only I can get to X, like, then I'm going to start living.


If only I can get married or whatever, whatever it is that you have in your head, that that's going to be the marker.


Right. And.


And I really I really, really get it, because I. Always like lived my life. Waiting for the future, you know. Yeah, and this year. Having all this shit happen and being forced to stop. And just sit with what my life is. I realized like that I did waste so much time fantasizing about a thing. So many things that I thought were going to, like, make me feel a different way. And the way that I feel like that's just me and I need to I did I had to face it and figure out how to move.


How to sit still, I don't know, not how to move forward, how to sit still in it, how to, like, sit in it and. And I said to her, the other thing I want to tell you that I wish I had known is that, like, you get to build your life however the fuck you want to, and it doesn't have to look like anything you've ever seen or anything that's ever been modeled for you, because maybe it doesn't exist and you get to choose like what makes it what will make you feel fulfilled and happy.


You know, it doesn't have to be. Any of these constructs that like we've all been fed our whole life, this is a different world that that you get to fucking build anyway.


It was pretty intense and. Also. I love that kid and this has been a fucking wild. Year and. You know. I feel like I finally just really understand. A lot of bigger things, life was also Bird said, I said, you know, Bird, I've been doing a bad job with the pronouns because Bertie said that they would like their pronouns to be like them.


And I haven't been doing it and I said because, like, I have this public persona and I want Berdy to be in control of their own narrative and not have to.


Answer to anybody outside of our friends and family if they don't want to.


Mm hmm. And then Byrd was like. I don't give a fuck. Like I would I you can talk about that I'm gay and out. You can talk about my pronouns, I that would be cool with me. That's great. So. I said, OK, I'm just out. I can talk about it on the podcast. And Britney was like, yeah, talk about a hockey mom, like, OK, make fun of the rock star.


Anyway, so.


Yeah, it's been wild, so birdie my out kid. Prefers they them I fuck up sometimes. What I'm trying my best at that, too, I mean, is a lot of kids out here who. Their parents are not trying at all. If anything, they're doing the opposite of trying. So like also it's really hard. It's not even like obviously I'm not a parent and I never will be, but I'm a fun black, aren't.


I think that one of the things, too, is that, like, I'm like like woken up and clear enough or whatever, but like when you meet someone and their pronouns are like she her and you've known them and you didn't problem with them for like fucking 12 years, 15 years, 20 years or whatever, it is an adjustment, not because I'm like a bad person, it's just like a habit. And then like I am actively I will actively break that habit.


But it's a hard thing to do if it wasn't hard. I think people would be better at it like that, just like as simple as it is. But it's like no matter who you are, like you've known like literally you gave birth to Berdy. And then when Brady came out, you were like you used up a specific pronoun and now you're doing your best and you will get great at it and it'll become second nature. But it's just like any other muscle, any other new language.


It's the other thing. You are rewiring your brain.


You keep writing your maiden name, like if you change your it's muscle memory.


But you know, what's so great about Bertie is Bertie is so strong and Bertie speaks up about things that are important to Bertie all the time. I even know that. And I'm not Bernie's mom. And that's amazing.


And just apply also, if we're I would just say, like one of the things, too, that I've learned, if you mess up, just fix it and then continue. And then also one of the things that has helped me with making sure I get it right or not get get pronouns right, but like to not get it wrong is to say practice at home. I like say that person's name and then use sentences where I say, oh, they are or they're coming or like they were there and like I'll try to connect that part of my brain to that pronoun.


And also I will actively try to say their name instead of a pronoun, which is something that I've been trying to do for people in general. Like I'm not trying to put a pronoun on any person. And like when I instead of ladies and gentlemen or you guys, I say you guys a lot. But if I'm with a group of people, I have been trying to say I say y'all all the time, but like I say, folks, I'll be like all these folks.


And so, like, I've been trying to like like during the pandemic, it's a thing that I've been, like, trying to work on, because during this pandemic, I have had a lot of friends like really do a lot of reflection and realizing that, like, they do not fit the pronouns that I've known them from since, you know, we were twenty two years old and fucking drunk in a bar doing improv. So during this time I've had a lot of friends be like, that is not who I am, this is who I am now.


And I'm like, great, I'm not going to see you for a year. When I see you, I'll have worked on it. So I think that that is a thing that you can actively be doing if you want to be a better ally, because I think that even when you don't have a non binary person or in your life, it's like, oh, like just because you don't necessarily actively live with a non binary person, you should still be trying to get the vocabulary that is new to you and that's work on your part.


Like you don't have to like sit in a room with a non binary person and practice with them. That's fucked up. So practice on your own time.


But but that's such a great fucking point, Santara, because I do think as we all reflect on this year and I think for a lot of people, they have had their first glimpses of being woke and maybe some of the people listening to this podcast and I know I've seen I've had people say to me on my own, like, what?


What do you mean do the work? What? Like, what am I doing? Like, tell me, what do you know? They're like, tell me what to do.


And and a lot of times the answer is like, fucking figure it out yourself. But then you're literally saying, here's some work. Like here's a thing you can do. This is like is hard. I like, all right, I know like two straight people and video and I'm like every day y'all are getting a little bit gay. I know it. So it's like I like I'm like not actively a lot of times with people who are struggling a lot with this.


But like I have conversations with a lot of my like queer and non binary friends and I'll just be like, like I'm working on it. But like, I'm not it's not their burden to bear for you to figure out how to say right now. Right. Nor is it, you know, nor is it their burden to have the conversation with you. Absolutely.


Yes. Yeah, right. Just like. That's the thing that I'm going to work on. If you find that like this is hard to if you find that you're like, I don't want to do that, well, you got it. You should go to therapy and talk about it, because that is some other shit that you should probably get to the root of.


Well, I was going to say, Shinta, if I know something, if I've learned something and someone is genuinely asking for help, I will try to share what I know and tried to be honest about what I don't know. But I do hear so many people, as you are saying, busy saying, like, I don't know what the work is. And I'm like, that's OK. But also I see you putting in a lot of work into resisting something.


So I see you thinking of reasons why you can't do something, why you don't want to do something, why you shouldn't have to do something. And that's a certain amount of work as well as more work.


So, yeah. So to to say like I'm unfamiliar with what the work is or you know, like it's right. It is right there. It's there to hear about and to learn about. And if you are honest with yourself, I think a lot of times you'd realize that you're putting in a lot of work to stay the same.


Yeah, I think that's such an interesting point is that I have never thought about which is like you're right, like all of these X, Y and Z is that these people that these people, these fucking people, that people, white people who are like, I don't get why what it's like all of those things are work.


You're doing work to try to justify a thing. So. Figure the fuck out, I guess, is my point. Well, no, I really I just really appreciate you putting it in that way because I've never even thought about that before. But that makes so much sense.


It's a lot of work. And I really appreciate you saying that because, like, I had a weird situation where this, like, old white male was like, it's generational, why can't I do this? And I was like, this generation. I think that you can't also like, then don't do it. Don't talk to me. Like, don't talk to non binary people. Leave them alone. Just leave them alone.


You're like, bitch, you're the greatest generation. Why don't you try being great truly. Thank you.


You know, it is so weird. Why is that? When I was a little kid I had this. I don't I don't even know if it's like an official thing. I had like a type of face blindness where when I would go to like first grade, first day of first grade, all of the kids looked the same to me. Like I just couldn't tell any of the girls apart from each other. I couldn't tell any of the boys my entire year of first grade, I could not differentiate between who was Chris, who is Joshua, who is they?


And so is that face blindness?


I don't I don't even know. Little white kids. Do they look in the same, though?


Yeah. All kids look the same like yours. They all look the same. I mean, I don't know this before, but you guys, Isla Fisher and Sacha Baron Cohen's kids, Ike Barenholtz and his wife's daughters and my kids like interchangeable. They're all interchangeable. You can look at pictures of them online. I'm telling you, they all look the same. Yeah.


My point in bringing it up is that as a little kid, I would I think because I thought I could be talking about any boy in my class, I would I would always use they as a pronoun. So I would say they pushed me and they took away my blocks. And I remember so much effort into going that went into explaining to me. No, you mean he. No, you mean she.


And now I'm so annoyed because if everybody had just left me alone in first grade, I would have been so far either her now it's just calling and I was wrong. It's not it's like also to be corrected in quotations, right. For something that is like not like it's not improper grammar. It's like not wrong.


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Here's what I'm going to say.


That has been sort of and I think we kind of we did kind of talk about this the other week, like it's been sort of my one of my realizations along with so many things.


But that part of like true equality, gender equality and in the fight as a feminist and trying to have like intersectionality and all that, it never fucking occurred to me that what we really have to do is like get rid of pronouns.


Totally, which is why. Yeah. Why are we using them? So, like, me and my friends had like a real, like, sit down discussion like me at a bunch of queers. And we were like just like destroy the binary. OK, so like we decided like we decided like I'm if I could charge, but we were like, what and what instance, where is it easier just to be like just like I will check a box and I'm like, have you ever been to the DMV ever?


And then like you get finally get to the front of the line and in order to get your license, they're like, what box do you want to take? And it's like, is this non binary person going to explain this to this lady at the DMV? It sucks because it's like literally sacrificial to like who you are as a human being. But the way that our society is set up is like pronouns, because also there's like a hundred we fuck with like two and like tried to add another one and people are freaking out.


But there's like hundreds of pronouns. This is like informative to me. But like there's like people who they're called gender fucks and they want to go by it. Just think about the fact that there are people in the world to, like, think gender is so fucked that they they want they demand that you call them it. So like you wrap your head around, they imagine a fucking gender fuck showing up at the DMV and being like, put it on my license.


We don't have the time right now.


And that is the thing that's like everybody deserves that. But we are in a country that is not able to provide that right now. So but it is important to be the type of person who fully understands that it is all and it's like a made up thing that is a construct. But recognizing that, like, you got to go through TSA, are you going to tell TSA? About your non binary experience, are you just going to fucking check the box so you can go see your parents?


And that is one of the things that, like people sacrifice. But, yeah, just blow it all up. Right.


And it's a made up thing, but it's also like the the values that we've assigned to it totally affect your entire life. Like I've said this on the podcast before, I know firsthand that I've gone into meetings and had people say, oh, you're a woman to my face because my name is gender neutral. And like you might as well have said, I would not have called Yakir. Like, the amount of shock on your face right now. You might as well say to me, I wouldn't have yeah, I wouldn't have had this meeting with you if I knew.


Right. And I think you're a woman. I think that for maybe if you're listening and you're like, what the fuck are you talking about?


Gender is a construct. What are you talking about?


It's like it's you know you know that there's some you know that there's a woman right now, a person. You know, there's a person right now listening to this podcast. And it's like these bitches are on one. What the fuck are they?


Not away that I like to describe, because I think that, like, when we talk about actual human beings and people, it gets messy and we make mistakes. And I apologize if I say anyone, but I will say, like, I think about borders, how like you think about gender and you're like, but so many people associate it with sex organs, but which is a whole nother thing that we don't talk about today. But think about borders, borders like we see maps.


But those are man, that's just land. And some man usually man decided that Texas looked like that, decided that France looked like that, decided that Russia was that and that and that line on that piece of paper that that land is Russia that's made up, that is all fake. And we have decided to go about it and use passports and get permission to go to these places. But when you go to the bare minimum of it all, we talk about America like being like a bunch of colonizers.


But this like think about like like colonizing land.


It's like you showed up at a place that was called something else and then you redrew it and renamed it because that's a fake thing. So when you think about gender as a construct, you try to wrap your head around it. Just think about the line that goes between Mexico and Texas. When you get to Texas, like you don't see a line drawn around the difference, it's fake. And we've decided to agree as a society that these lines are a county.


So like if that helps you, when you try to deconstruct the construction of pretty much everything in our entire society, we've solved it, is what I was about to say result also, I think I've explained it to friends before who are questioning and maybe like a little resistant about gender being like a construct.


It's like just imagine in our constructed our false construct of gender starting when we're babies, we're like, girls are pink and boys are blue, you know? But can you imagine if you're a girl and you like the color blue, can you imagine if someone told you like, that's impossible for you to feel like the color blue is the best color. It's impossible because of your gender. Like those would be ridiculous statements, you know, like just it would be ridiculous to tell somebody that they can't have what they need based on a box that's been checked.




I will say that I think that thing I I am really you know, I'm really hard on myself.


I'm really hard on myself all the time about fucking everything too hard and especially parenting has been.


The longest fuckin journey of my life these last almost 13 years, but one thing that I look at these two people in my house and I can say that Mark and I have excelled at is allowing them to express who they are in the ways that they want to.


And however that manifests itself.


You know, I did make a concerted effort when they were both babies to try to not.


Follow the typical line gender lines in terms of. Toys, clothing, whatever. Yes, I named Birdie, Birdie and cricket, cricket, I don't I don't know.


I mean, those are those that are critical as far as I'm concerned. Their puppy names I named that is not gender neutral as you can get something. Not even girl. Bird, just bird. That's just not a bird. That should be a fucking box to check if you feel like a bird for a bird. And I do I do see the things that they express and that they.


Are into and I do see that it doesn't follow sort of any sort of typical. Gender lines, but amount of explaining in my personal life that I've had to do even with, like super progressive friends, for those of you who are my friends listening at home. This is the first you're hearing that Bernie is gay and out, Birdie told us.


At 10 years old.


And we immediately I mean, there's I mean, obviously, I knew that Birdie knew and I we had conversations with close friends, very progressive close friends, whose first reaction was, but is it real?


Don't you think that, like, she'll probably change her mind.


And I always was just so blown away by that reaction, like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, how do you not trust a kid to know who they are?


And when I was 10 years old, I dreamed of making out with Ryan Hatch.


And there was another kid who was the other kid. There were these two boys in my fourth grade class and I just like would listen to Paula Abdul and like Rush Rush was the song and listen to my tape, my Walkman.


And I would like I was like, if only Ryan Hatch would kiss me.


I was I was like 10 years. I was just 10 years old. I knew that I wanted that. Well, Kennedy is seen as correct.


It's like it's deemed like the it's I think about like when people default. Default. Yes. Like when people are like, oh, African-American, Asian-American, American. But if you're white, you're just American. So there's always like a default. So like heteronormativity is so like the default that like if somebody was like, oh, I really like that girl, they'll be like, no, you don't, you don't know what you're talking about. But if some little girl has a fucking full fledged notebook devoted to someone they've never met, people are like, yes, that's normal and right.


That's funny. What's so funny?


And part of what like Bernie and I talked about last night, which is sort the whole conversation was minutes ago, is the you know, I've been putting on my Instagram Birdie's obsession with Timothy Charlamagne Styles. And Bertie has like an all encompassing, like true fandom of these brose. Yeah.


And it is not it's so wild because everyone's like, oh, the crushes and the bar and it's not it's not not a crush.


But as Bertie fucking said to me, because I was like like, I don't know, a month or two ago, I was like, do you feel like maybe you have a crush on them? And Vertigo's. Yeah, of course I have a crush on. T Shalom, but that but it's not sexual, I don't want to there's no part of me that wants to, like, make out with him. I have like an admiration, like she literally broke it down.


She's like things can be can exist and like not have to do with my sexuality. And I was like, oh yeah. I mean, Chris Pine. Chris Pine. Yeah.


It's very interesting because I think people probably think that they're comforting you, which is disappointing in a whole hundred percent. Yeah.


Why would you need to be comforted about knowing your kid is comfortable enough to say what their sexuality is to you, their identity.


Yeah. And like the Aurier identity, their orientation.


And so when people are like it's just a phase then that says like a thousand things about that person that are like a quiet, quiet part that, you know, they say that we say the quiet part out loud is because everyone is like very woak and liberal, liberal and chill and OK with everything until it's in their fucking house and their community. And then all of a sudden it's like we should feed the poor or grain. We're going to turn that building over there in your neighborhood into a place to feed the poor.


And then all of a sudden people are like, I didn't mean like that. So it's like, again, one of those instances where you have to it's really a lot of self-regulation, because if your gut instinct when you said that was to say that is a phase, I hope it is a phase, then it's like, oh, that's some stuff that you need to think about why you think that. And we don't have time. Why you hope that?


I just think that for anyone who at this point doesn't trust kids enough, these fucking this fucking generation is basically going to like save the environment. They've like held marches. They're going to get some gun control passed. Like, I, I am like, I'm sorry. Like, they're they're indigo children and they're like from another they have a higher something. I don't know, there's a lot going on.


But also like they have it because they had the information. Do you know what I mean. Like I was talking to one of my best friends who's a gay man, and he was like, I didn't fucking know when I was 12 years old what it was that I felt. I just knew that it was not in line with everything that I knew and was modeled.


It sounds weird to say, but like sometimes there is too much information. I think that I don't think this is like a thing that I read. But so many of us, we were that one kid in that city that we were in and we were like, I don't know what's going on. I gotta get the fuck out of here. And you, like, built your walls. You did what you had to do in the you were like, as soon as I leave because we talked about this, like, I'll begin my life in the future.


Right. But what has happened now to those children? A lot of times they will find the information and then they'll be trapped in a household full of adults who do not respect or understand or are willing to, like, help them with that information. Now, they Google it. They found out exactly who they are, their identity, and then it could be trouble.


So they're there because they're in a place that's where there is no acceptance, there's no acceptance and there's no danger. So, like you find out everything you need to know to be free and then you're trapped or you don't know what you need to be free, but you're looking. So I don't know. That's just the thing that I read. But also, I just want to say about soul, I really hope that everybody watches it get your Disney plus because obviously everybody's having to have criticism.


One of the things that I really loved about it and that I really love my life for is that like what you do is not who you are. Yes. As someone who is like a moderately successful writer, like people are all like you're a writer and I'm like, I'm Sentara and I write. And I think that there is like a very big difference. And that's why so many people achieve their goals and are very, very sad because they haven't.


I always say live a life. So like kids, people not right now gone dads are like figure out stuff that you like, but so many people, their life is rooted in what they do. And so I think that obviously I think I kind of feel like it was a movie for grownups because a lot of that shit went over kids heads. But I really loved the fact that he was like, I got to do my dream and I was sad.




I feel like a lot of us, a lot of people had to come to terms with that realization this year.


I feel like Casey, I feel like you maybe have some feelings about that, too.


Yeah, for sure. I said this before in the podcast like it was my dream to become a TV writer. That's the only dream that I ever made for myself. And then it came true really young for me. I was twenty four and then I didn't bother to make any other dreams, you know.


And so. I guess like what I just crossed my fingers for is that I would like to continue doing that and I have continued doing it for the most part. But then when there are gaps, which there always are, because that's the nature of television, it is really like pulled the rug out from under me because I'm like, who am I? And like, obviously, you know, I'm a mom and a wife and a friend and all of those things.


But because of like. The way that my brain is built, I don't place that high of a value on those things that are actually like very valuable. So, you know, so when the thing that I place a high value on is taken away, then I'm just like, what's happening? Like, I'm in freefall. And I feel like you had this year, like, a lot of. Feelings like about I mean, I don't know, I don't want to speak for you, but I just would say, like, as you look back on this year, what are you like taking with you?


As I look back on this year, what I am taking with me is just that you can't you can't count on anything, you know?


And I don't mean that in a negative way. I just mean don't make assumptions about what your life will be or how other people will be toward you, what you have to do.


I was just talking to my son about this, about how, you know, I love Oprah.


We all love Oprah. So often people will ask Oprah, like, what's your secret? I'm sure you've been asked this a million times, like, what's your secret? Busy. How do you do it? And often people, even people that I really super admire, super successful people, they always say, well, you know, you just have to keep at it and you just have to, like, never let go of your dream. And I'm like, that's not actually valuable because your dream came true, you know what I mean?


So, like, what would you know about not letting go of your dream? You got your dream. I need to talk to like the guy who loves to play piano but is a garbage man about how he does. Yeah. You know what I mean. Like, because that's a guy that loves the piano and does what he has to do to make a living and to make his way in this world.


And like, he may never become a famous piano player. You know, I think about my dad a lot. I'm a member of ASKAP, the American Society of Composers. And whatever it is, when I worked at The Rosie O'Donnell Show, I wrote song lyrics all the time and I was paid for writing song lyrics in addition to like writing comedy for her. And so I became a member of ASKAP. And when my dad passed away, I put my ASKAP card in his in his coffin with him before he was buried because that was my dad's dream, to become a member of ASKAP, like you wanted to be an official songwriter.


But he was never able to get that because like for whatever reason, I don't know why. I don't know why my dad never made a dime for writing songs. But you can't say he wasn't a songwriter. He wrote songs all the time. He performed songs all the time. He recorded songs all the time. So just because he didn't make a living at, you know, what was his spark doesn't mean that he wasn't that. Yeah, I see you guys, I'm sorry, Casey, just like made this face at us that was kind of wild and out of character for her, you like like we always like waiting.


We were like, OK, we're going to let her do this. She finished it. She was like, excuse me. Like, oh, that was a really great face. I appreciate that. But also, I think that that's I think that's fair.


And I think that we have look in this in this culture, this like celebrity obsessed culture, fame obsessed culture, money obsessed culture that we've created and been a part of and been participatory in.


I think that a great deal of value gets put on those things as if that's the be all end all to artistic expression or worth or like artistic worth. Yeah. You know, and like I think. It's something to remember always for everyone. It doesn't mean it doesn't really mean anything, you know what I mean? Like, it's all made up. It's all borders, like like gender fame is a construct.


Yeah. You know, and there is and there's and there is valuable art everywhere and and talented people and interesting people and. Another thing that I really enjoyed about the movie Soul guys, this is this this podcast has been brought to you by the.


So the acceptance now. Oh, yes, I know. Really give us some of that Pixar money.


But I appreciated the the seed that's planted in it that, you know, something that's a love and a passion can also become an obsession and can and can and can be to your detriment, can be can make you not interesting to other people. Can like close you off from wanting to be being curious about other people's interests. And, you know, that's to me at the core of fucking everything, like self-awareness is the key.


And and a lot of people would benefit greatly from having a little bit more self awareness in this in this world.


Also, like, can I just say this and this might sound like a real asshole thing, but I'm want to say it, um, some of some people need to give up this. My I know everybody is always like, keep fighting. This is if you want it, you'll get it. That is not true. Some people also some people are not good enough. And I think that there are fully people who are great at piano, but they're not.


John Baptist, who is also the person who wrote a bunch of compositions for soul music, is so good.


It's so good. I thought I was like, incredible.


And I think that there is one of the things that I really like and also you might be good enough, but it might not be the thing you're supposed to do forever. Like there was a there's an improviser that I came up with, a performer. Fantastic. In Chicago, did Second City, did everything that you accomplished in fucking Chicago theater like won awards, did a bunch of commercials, and then was like, I don't want the goal that I had when I was 20 was to do equity theater, do commercials.


And then after she achieved all of those goals, she was like thirty eight and then she became a nurse. And that's what she does now. And it was like, yeah, because it's over now and that's OK too. And I think that like that doesn't mean that like your dreams are like not valid, but like also fame is a construct. Everybody doesn't get to be famous. But also just because you move to L.A. doesn't mean you're good enough.


And that might be like an asshole thing to say. But I really think that there are so many people whose life would be so much better if they actively realized that the thing that they decided they want to do when they were twenty is the thing they're supposed to do for the rest of their lives. So I think that that's just like because also I want to do it for the rest of my life. That was not right. I think I should be doing so.


I always I always feel for people because, you know, so many. And I think it's like such an American thing. Yeah. How many people do you know that dreamed of playing in the NFL or the NBA or the WNBA? I personally know people that worked their whole lives to become like governor of their state or thought that they had an honest shot at being president. And then that window's like kind of there and it's like within reach. And then at some point that window closes and you realize that like this thing that you've devoted your entire life to might not be the thing.


And so, you know that it's all it's so weird. I feel like I'm high today because everything we're talking about is so interconnected. And, you know, talk about Pivot's and I'm thinking of Michelle Kwan talking to us about how skating was her everything. And but that's a limited window being a supermodel, limited window of how long you can do that usually. And so to then be able to pivot in a healthy way and apply the lessons that you've learned and be happy that it happened to you or or to be happy that it never happened to you.


But you spent all these years doing this thing that you loved. You know, that's that's great. That is living now, you know what I mean?


I'm so happy that I was a cheerleader in high school because it's like kind of useless as an adult.


And so, like, I knew that I always knew that I was kissing not goodbye in four years, you know what I mean? I wasn't going to go on to become like a professional cheerleader. That wasn't like a consideration for me.


But does it mean that everything I put into it during those years when I was doing it, all the gymnastics, all the injuries, all the competitions that I went to, all the money that I raised, does that mean that it was a waste? No, it taught me everything about how I wanted to be going through life for the rest of my life.


I just think we're all collectively at a place where we get to re-evaluate about.


The messages that we've allowed ourselves to take in about what's important and moving forward, I really do hope that there's.


Like a collective. Shift in. Our consciousness of. What this is how finite it is and and what matters and what. And what we want, like ultimately what we want, you know, I had a really interesting talk with my therapist where she was like, I cannot tell you how many women and you are no exception, busy. When I first the first session that I see them, they sit down across from me and they say, well, I figured out what's wrong with me and I just need to like your help to fix it.


And, you know, when you get into the work and you, like, go through it, it took me. It's been almost three years I've been working with my therapist shout out, I love her. Where I finally, literally.


Last week was like, oh, my God, there's nothing fucking wrong with me, yeah, I'm allowed to feel however the fuck I want to feel.


And that was when I when people talk about, like, therapy breakthroughs, I literally was like, oh, fuck me, this is a breakthrough.


It never occurred to me that the way that I see certain things and process certain things and like, feel a certain way was OK. I thought it was there was something wrong with me for so many different reasons, for societal reasons, for personal reasons, for trauma reasons, for like all this fucking shit. And at the end of the day, like when all this stuff has been stripped away and like I really got into it, the realization that I don't have to fix a fucking thing about myself.


I can I can exist with the knowledge of like, oh, I feel this way. This is also a part of me. I feel this way, you know, and moving like starting from that point now is I have to tell you, bonkers.


Like I Casey knows sort of even more than you do hear about like but like especially like in the last several years, like how many times I've been just like sobbing like I don't know what's wrong with me, like the wrong with me.


I talk about me being hard on myself but like to really have this fuckin I like opening experience where I had the epiphany.


Helped, guided by my therapist of holy shit, what if there's nothing wrong with me and and what if I just accept that this is me and I feel these things and I feel this way and like, is it complicated for other people sometimes? Yeah, sure it can be. But like, how can I move through the world now with the knowledge that there is nothing wrong with me? I just have to acknowledge and embrace like that. This is how I feel.


It's fucking pretty awesome.


I think that one of the cool things about that, too, is like we've talked about this before, and I think that this has gotten like very serious, but I really enjoy it. About anything that makes women powerful or feel good about themselves is deemed as something that needs to be fixed. So like if women go to women, go to yoga to get strong and feel powerful in their body, people think it's woo woo and stupid women like crystals because when they wear this amethyst, it makes them feel powerful.


Men say that it's stupid. So like if a woman says that there is nothing wrong with me, there is nothing more powerful than a generation of women who do not feel like they need to be fixed. Correct. So I think that that is where we're at. We're at this generation like you guys are Gen X and Millennial, but like we are a generation of women. I believe that truly is like this has been bad. I don't want the younger ones to go through there.


This has been so bad. So I think we have been like GenZE. Here's the thing. I do not know how to help you, but you are allowed to figure it out. And I feel like so many women, my partner does like breath work and energy, stuff like Reiki. And every woman that comes in is like, I feel so powerful. I really think this work is helping me. My boyfriend says it's stupid. And I should I mean, my husband I can help everyone with my Reiki except for my husband because he thinks it's stupid.


Crosthwaite is cool, right? But if a woman does fucking yoga, not much shit Jennifer Aniston got for doing yoga.


Like, what the fuck did that have to do with you? You know, like but it also made her feel strong in her body.


She talked about how powerful it was in a million. Millions of women decide to do a thing that made them feel powerful. So I think that we are coming into these last nine months, a bunch of women being like, wait a minute, there's nothing wrong with me. And I think that this is a big tipping point because, like, that's powerful as fuck. So that's all I have to say. When you think about a lot of the things that get criticized, like all the things you're mentioning are like meditation, crystals, astrology.


Polarity is just all of these things that are typically like, again, gendered as like feminine and wew like I don't I don't know if astrology is like a thing. You know, you can spot a pattern if you're looking for a pattern. But what I do know is when I read my horoscope, I interpret it personally for me. And it gives me a minute to be thoughtful and introspective about myself.


All of these things that women do that people dismiss the common factor across all of them is that it gives women a moment to be thoughtful, like just to think about, you know, when you use a crystal and you imbue it with some power, you're also like.


Setting an intention like how you intend to go forward in the world or when you celebrate the new moon or whatever, so it doesn't surprise me that people are dismissive of it because those people that are dismissive probably think being thoughtful is stupid as well. You know, so like so many people just walk through life not thinking about shit and that's the default. And that is so it's so arrogant. And also it's so hurtful because, you know, when you're not thinking about anything, you're not looking where you're going like literally or emotionally.


So if you're not looking where you're going emotionally, you're banging into people and you're hurting people and then you're not thinking about that. And so you're just going through the world like a fucking bull in a china shop and not looking at the damage you're causing.


And it's like, yeah, maybe you should read a horoscopes or think horoscopes to men all the time.


Well, it's also like I think this is a thing and like also we're talking about gender. I mean, like obviously still a construct, but we still live in a society where the construct of being a woman is anything that women like, people shit on it. But so many people who are like marginalized are minding their fucking business. Women put crystals in their purse. They don't say shit to you. They go to their yoga. They just wear their yoga pants and get their fucking ass eyeballs.


They're not saying shit to you. So maybe just little guys walking around being gay, not saying shit to you. It's always somebody has a problem with your power, with your joy, with you Minding Your Business. And I think that that's something that people should definitely like because like busy even being like there's something wrong with me. I bet you a bunch of people who don't have their shit together told you that there was something wrong with you. You your feelings were a bunch of men, your men.


Right. I bet you when you were like, hey, man, I don't fucking like that. They were like, what's wrong with you? And it's like, what's wrong with you doing shit I don't like.


I'm thinking of one man in particular. Like, I get mad about something that someone I don't even know said to busy.


Like which thing. Which thing. The thing about my laugh being too loud about how you'd be really beautiful if you.


I'd be really beautiful if only I didn't talk so much, so loud, talk so much, so loud. It's in my book either.


Either way, it ain't got nothing. Don't listen to me. I don't believe me. He was like, very like looking at me, contemplating it when he said it, like. Yeah, like, you know, like he's saying something like it was deep. And then also that like I should be flattered by that, you know, that he gave it something. If my oh, my personality was just a lot, that was what it was.


My personality was just so much like it was like too much like I'm too animated when I talk. I'm too, like, excitable. And I, I mean and I like fucking it up and like swallowed it and digested that shit and then pooped it out and but still like I took the nutrients from it.


Do you know what I mean. It's not a good analogy. You were minding your fucking business and somebody decided to interrupt your power because guess what? A woman who is loud and loves herself and is excited to share their ideas is detrimental to the power structure construct of mediocre men, right? Yeah, you can be mediocre. And then a woman comes in in her full power. You can't match that. So what's the best thing you can fucking do is to tell them that that's too much instead of raising your vibration.


And that's why so many people are getting divorced this year, because a bunch of women were sitting around with their men and they were meditating and doing yoga and fucking learning how to be on a higher vibration. And like Casey said to other people in their partnerships, did not want to change. And that's why the fucking divorce rate went up this year. Yeah, they were sick of that shit.


And also, I will say that I think that the imbalance in domestic labor became unavoidable because.


Yeah, because we know that during this time of covid women, regardless of whether they had jobs that previously were like outside of the house when everybody was at stay at home orders, the women were majority of women were still bearing the brunt of the domestic labor.


I should take this moment to say that the balance of domestic labor in my house, my husband does literally everything I know I had to.


I just want to be like I want to be up front about that, because while I'm like men want women today or my husband literally does everything I like. Mark does a vibe. That's their vibe, though, right? Because like I invested on Black Friday, I got a Dyson I my grandmother was a housekeeper for like forty six years. So, like, I'm just a real clean bitch. So, like, it don't matter who I'm with, I'm probably going to clean it because I like extra clean.


You're a real Monica Geller. I'm a real fucking Monica baby. Put that turkey on my head. I will fucking come out of the house. I woke up yesterday and I was like, I can't do much, but I will screw up this counter. That's my vibe. My husband just has the attitude that, like, I have been doing domestic things my whole life because of like how I was raised. And then I put myself through college, like cleaning old people in the in their golden years and like carrying children.


So I think he just feels like, listen, you've done all this, you very generous.


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OK, before we I want to just real quick, before we move on to some other end stuff that I want to discuss Centera, I want I do want to know what you're taking from this year.


What I am taking is kind of exactly what you were talking about. Busy is that there is nothing wrong with me, which sounds weird, but that my gut instinct is usually right, especially when it concerns me. And that's like not just like my body, but like my mental state. Like in March I was like, America is too wild. I need to up my meetings with my therapist. My body didn't I wasn't comfortable. And I was like, what is the root of this?


And I ended up getting the breast reduction surgery. As far as work goes, like, I've been pretty fortunate, but like I've turned down some stuff because it just wasn't it. I didn't want to do it. So I think that there as I go into this new year, this 20/20 is hard for everybody. But listening to my body in my like my emotional, emotional state, everything like believing that I'm right about what's best for me, truly following my gut about what would make me as a person better feel better.


And I've been right about it. So I'm going to take that into 2021, really listening to me, because I've known myself the longest and I'm right out of my I'm right about me. I'm right about me.


Is on the next Mirch drop. Just somebody write it down. Yeah, I'm right about me. I'm bad about me. Yeah, I'm right about it. About me.


And I think that is for all of us. We've all been we've spent so much of our time, our whole lives being like, well, this is how I feel about me. But everybody else tells me that's not right. That's not the way to feel you're doing it wrong.


And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm me. How are you going to tell me that this is wrong? So I think, yeah, it goes back to what we're just talking about.


Like, you know, usually men telling women, like, here's what I think about you. Here's how I see you. It's funny because I had a thing this week where somebody was like said, you know, people telling you who you are. Like somebody was like, you're so nice. And I was thinking about it. And I was like, yeah, that really is like I feel like that is my identity. But then I was thinking about it and like feeling like I'm actually an asshole a decent amount of time.


But then I was thinking of the instances where I was remembering this time when I was on the train and I was putting makeup on and this guy sat down next to me and he was like, you know, you're pretty. You don't need to wear, you know, up. And I was like, and I don't know why, but in that moment I was like, actually, you could use some makeup. Like, I think you could use a little.


And he was like, oh my God, that's so mean. That's so uncalled for. And I was like, no, you sitting down and telling me what I should do with my face was uncalled for. I literally did not call for it. All I was doing was responding to your uncalled for unsolicited comment about me.


Yes, Minding Your Fucking Business.


Not Minding Your Business. My business man has something to say. Yes.


So the times that I am a dick is usually like if my husband's making too much noise with the spoon in the bowl, which I just was this morning.


But the second time that I'm usually a dick is when someone is telling me who I am and what they think about me. And like my response is usually what would what gave you the idea that I gave a fuck what you thought about me? What was it like? I'm genuinely curious. What made you think that I would give a fuck what you think?


I love that. Can we incorporate that? And the twenty twenty. Yeah, I would love because I would love to be like I want to know because I want to make sure I never do it again. I want, I want to know I just would love to know what.


Well that's also like the confidence of a man to never have met you, to never have met you or to have met you a few times and to be like, I have something that will help the personality that you have developed over the course of your three decades being on the planet. It's like you just met me and you can improve.


That's how it is literally on a par with like when when a cat brings you something they killed thinking that you're going to love it. And I'm like, you're literally like a cat bringing me a dead. So bring it back to Gina and the dead birdwing.


She thought she won a prize. She thought she was like bringing us a treat for our entire family to enjoy.


Why why are they responding like this? Why is my mom screaming? I don't care. Screaming. She's happy. God, you guys, Gina, I'm so, so obsessed with Gina, I love her so much.


OK, so guys, I feel like also it's the full moon and cancer, you know?


So this is our we have this is the power, the power, how we're moving right now. But like, we're moving into cancer. We're moving out of chaos and into more power.


Yeah. And we're shedding, shedding, letting go, letting go. Moving forward, guys.


Moving forward. Love astrology. We have the baggage behind. Take what you need. Leave the rest. Say goodbye and let's move. Move forward. Yes.


This is, you know. We could talk like all fucking day, but just real quick, we do have to talk about a few like Pop Kultury, like who did their best this year. Do you feel like pop culture wise and who did their worst? Well, I got to say, I. I don't think a Baldwin la. Is it a Laria. That's how you pronounce it. Hilary leave. You mean Hilary Hillary.


Hillary Thomas. Khiry Haywood while Jurnee. I can't I don't even know where to start that. Spliced together footage of her early days doing the accent when she literally says, how do you say? And she cuts herself off from saying English. But she says, how do you say cucumber, you know, like this. It is that there's been a war that was a wild end to this year. I didn't see it coming. I didn't know anything about it until it broke is again, not surprising.


And it's so wild that, like also the one thing that I saw online was like, what's Alec Baldwin doing? Like, did he did he know did he think he married like a Spaniard? Do you know what it reminded me of?


Do you guys remember that guy that was on the show with my friends, the league, and he had that story about how he was the 9/11 11. And he told in interviews and like told it all the time. And he was married to a woman who was with him like. In 2001 and knew that it was not real, that the story was made up and she like just I guess would go along like went along with it, like, how do you not.


Look at somebody, even if you fucking love them, so even if they make you come so hard, guys, you know what I mean? Because ultimately, like at the end of the day, maybe that's probably what it is, right.


It's about how do you not see someone like lying and say, hey, babe, we got to talk about this also, like, you know, I love a lady scammer.


They're my favorite. But one of the things that got me, it was like the audacity because like this one thing, if you're like literally from Europe and you come to America and you're like, I'm about to make some shit up. I mean, everybody came to Ellis Island was like, I got a new last name, bitch. Like, come over here, do your thing right. She's just in New England surrounded by affluent white people. Like if there's one thing I know, affluent white people will snitch on your ass.


So, like, you just like went to like a bunch of fancy schools and didn't think none of those ladies was going to snitch on you. Well, I did change. To be fair for you, to change your name and face, you didn't change your training. Maybe she thought, right? Didn't she just made me think of like, why?


Why? What was the motivation? It was to build a brand. That's why I think one hundred percent to build a brand are like not feeling special enough or just, you know, which is wild because like, you know, for everything we can tell, she had like a lovely life and her husband does love her. And so it's just like it's such a weird thing. But the weirdest thing to me is that it happened in the within the Internet age.




Because like I was a researcher for The Rosie O'Donnell Show and I would research like Mike Douglas or whatever and learned that like through the course of like magazine interviews, like he never knew microfiche was going to be invented. So he was like shaving years off of his age, like progressive, you know, but he never knew that there was going to be technology to go back and check it. But I it's very weird. And I was wondering if like because like actors like live for a living.


But is she your doctor or what?


No, but I'm saying maybe that's why Alec went along with it. Where like where being like a great storyteller is rewarded, like being a character is rewarded. Maybe he was just like is just doing a thing like it's pretty, but they have four kids.


Like, the thing about me that's always interesting. I'm like I'm just like, do those kids think they're.


Spanish like, do they think they are Spaniards like I'm unclear about the timeline, though, by the time she got with Alec, had she dropped the accent because there is definitely like the early days of her trying to be like an influencer on those morning shows where the accent is, like, so egregious.


And then she like is like, hey, I'm here and I have a really great yoga thing that we can all do like like which presumably is also not her real voice.


Oh my God. She knows what her real voice is. I don't I think some people don't. You know what I mean. Yeah, it's interesting. Well, you know, Paris Hilton for years have this like that Paris Hilton voice. And like now she's sort of speaking in her like real adult voice. And people are like, what? But yeah, obviously, like, if you thought about it, of course, that Babytalk voice wasn't Paris Hilton's where I think about Britney Spears, too.


And like, that's there's like a lot to that we don't have time for. That guy's here right now.


But but I but just vocally, I think about what has been sort of perpetrated on her and how she's maintained. And actually, I know I'm not really supposed to talk about girls five EVA, one of Hollywood Reporter's most anticipated shows of twenty twenty one, according to the article today.


And I watched the Bel Air preview and it looks fucking amazing tale.


That was what is it, that new way. The one I told you about. Yes. Yeah. No, it's for the they're making the the dark. The dark for the guys. So it's yeah. It's going to be amazing anyway. But one of the things that I felt so strongly I do like this really. I'm doing like this voice thing in the show.


And I wanted to have. A character who has like just that much more of a layer between herself and the world because she like kind of can't deal with where she's at, you know, and like figuring out when you drop it and like when it goes away and like what those moments are.


And they think like, it's an interesting thing that, again, gender lines, women oftentimes get fuckin backed into a thing with their voices, you know, where they're like my people are like I have a friend who, like, literally sounds like a valley girl, but she's like a genius and like it sounds vague. And she has been like told to be like, stop talking like that. And she's like. I have a master's degree from Georgetown.


Why do you figure out how to listen to this? And I'm like, you're right. But like, even if she wasn't like a genius, like you could be the dumbest bitch in the world, like this is the way my voice sounds like. It's not my fault that America decided that the way women talk is bad.


Yeah, it's really it's I mean, it's such an interesting conversation because there's like women not getting respect for the way their voice literally sounds. And then there's women who are making choices about the way their voice sounds.


And I guess like probably getting a great deal more respect than a lot of women using their natural voices and their use, their Ilaria Hillary, who's just like I'm going to talk with an accent I've made up and invent a back story that's not really accurate so that I can.


Let me ask you let me ask you a question. Have you ever faked an accent just for, like, fun, like checking into a hotel? No. But when I was in high school and like maybe freshman year in college, I used to do like a British accent all the time when I would go to, like, the coffee plantation in Tempe and I would pretend that I was from London like a yeah, like a British girl from London, which like now is like so something Bertie does.


And I just don't even know how I birthed out myself, this thing.


But did anyone ever call you on it or people would be like your that's the I don't believe you. I'd be like, well I don't know what to tell you, you know, like whatever my life.


Oh my God.


But speaking of which, we did we talk about this that I went on Access Hollywood, no access live a couple of weeks ago, like three weeks ago, I had to do an interview on Access Live for this thing I was doing.


And they fucking were like, we have a surprise for you.


And I was like, OK, and they played. Literally, the very first interview I had I ever did, and it was on, I think it was the pilot of Freaks and Geeks, I don't even think we were shooting the series yet. I think it was the pilot Freaks and Geeks. And I started to cry because, first of all, I was such a baby.


First of all, my voice sounds nothing like my voice now, like I was a child. And I guess, you know, like. You know, like when you're like 12 or something, and then you're and then you're graduating from high school and you think back to when you were 12 and when you were 12, you thought you were, like, so big. Yeah, but you're a baby, but you're a bit then you look back, you're like, oh, my God, I was such a baby.


This was like in my head.


I know 19 years old was a long time ago.


I get it. But in my head, I was an adult. And then I see this like child giving this dumb interview to Access Hollywood. With this totally different voice and sing, I mean, I can't we got to you guys, I asked them to send it to me because I really wanted to like I posted, if I could if I could get a hold of it.


It is so wild, also wild that I've probably done Access Live or Access Hollywood or whatever, like 4000 times in the last twenty two years. And this is the first I've they've ever like pulled this out of the box. Like how long have they, I mean they've had this the whole time. Why did it take so long for me to fight like for me to see it. But it is so wild and I and my voice specifically my voice is so different.


I mean it's crazy. I what I'm going to get it.


I'm going to crack it in. That's really funny, I, I sometimes will go or someone will send me, like on Twitter bits that I did on Letterman when I was in my early 20s. And I think that I sound exactly the same. I've not matured at all. Is that true? Age 20, 20? I doubt that.


I'm sure my voice has changed because I also had like a really bad lisp when I was younger. So, like, I had to I learned a bunch of stuff and then, yeah. So I'm sure my voice sounds different, but it sounds better now because I told you that story right. About how I decided to take my speech therapy seriously. I told you that, right?


No, I don't think so. But, you know, I also had a lisp. Oh, I love me as well. I mean, it's really hard to get rid of. I was going to speech therapy since I was like kindergarten. I was like, I'm going to keep this lisp. I'm the boss of me or whatever. And then we went to a museum on a field trip and the news WCT Tallahasse did an interview of some of the kids as we walked around the museum.


And I was going to be on the news, which is a big deal for any local child.


So then at five o'clock that night, I was home from my field trip and I was like, I'm going to be on TV, let's fucking watch this.


And then I watched my interview and I saw the terrible I was like, oh, my gosh, is this all s I was like, this list you guys were underselling. This is very bad. As soon as I go to speech therapy this week, we're going to really lock this in.


And then a year later, I was this guy again, everything connected. But I was thinking about my son. My older son also had a lisp as a kid inherited from me. And what he was obsessed with, which is which is one of my regrets as a parent, is that when he was very little, I talked him out of dressing in a witch dress for Halloween because I didn't want him to have to answer a million questions about why a boy.


It's one of my biggest regrets. And I feel like I apologized to him like every year at Halloween, like, I'm sorry that I did that. Then there's a whole other story connected to the witch dress. I don't know if we have time for, but he was interviewed after a hayride on Halloween in the year that he was very obsessed with witches and he had a little lisp and he was just like out of his mind.


I just was like, there's like witches.


And there's three trolls, like, there's there's three triples. Can you believe it? And like, he was just going on and on about I think he was talking about triple. Yeah. Like he thought that there were three witches that were triplets. And he was like, I mean, like if viral videos had been a thing then he would have definitely been like the viral kid.


Sure. But then I just remember the local anchor, like when they cut back from the tape, he was like, get that kid some sugar.


Oh, my God. Oh, no. Oh, I hate that. I hate that. They were like judging. Yeah. But I remember him watching it and being like, I'm going to have to work on my making's.


OK, so here is here's is do I want to say I think has like done their best this year.


Celebrity was OK because I have a I have a little bit of a list.


OK, I think that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have done their best. Yeah. They got the fuck out.


They are making their own path. I think they're going to do good things and I hope they make a lot of money soon.


I think that Gabrielle Union has done her best. Yeah, yes. And Dwayne Wade also done his best, the two of them together doing their best. Yes.


They've been like a really beautiful example of like parents, but also a really important example of good parenting in the black community, because we are mean to gay people and we have a we have a history of like especially coming from like the church of being like very open to everyone except for queer people.


And I think that they like there's no one more beautiful than Gabrielle and there's no one more like cool and like professional basketball player than like you can't get any cooler couple. And they are doing the fucking work and really setting an example in the black community. So hell yeah. To them.


I yes, all of that.


I think that Harry Styles is doing his fucking best.


Yeah, I agree. So to when we talk about James. And try to smash. He's trying to do it all and honestly, a very big fan right now.


Yeah. And also just like having excellent humor and he's just so subtle. Is that a weird thing to say about Harristown?


Kind of. But I love it. But like I'm just saying, he's just so casually, like, I'm doing this thing. Yeah. Like, I assume you're if you care about me, you're going to think it's cool. And if you don't, that's cool, I think.


But I just minding his business. I mean, like, I think he is actively like I don't think he's like, I'm going to wear this dress and I'm going to influence generations. I think he's like, that sounds cool. I'm going to do it. And then like, we get to be like participants in him minding his business.


Yes. An extra shout out because him wearing that strawbery dress made me go back and look at like, remember when, like, Brad Pitt used in a dress and Patrick Swayze wore a dress and he looked so beautiful. That picture of Patrick Swayze in, like, is that like a little black dress? And he's doing like a ballet pose with a dog at his feet? It just made me think of like a lot of guys have been trying to do this for a long time.


To be like being a woman isn't an insult. And it's doing something feminine isn't an insult. And like, you know, these are like the coolest guy.


I 100 percent concur, which is why he's on my doing his best celebrity addition list. I feel like I have an oh, Carmela. I think Pamela Harris doing her best, I think. And her whole family. Her whole family. Doug, you know, I love Dich.


I love the Doug the kids.


I mean, I love her knees doing her back. Just I feel like we got like a whole great family. And it's been a long time since we've had, like, a whole great family.


And I'm excited about Doug. I think he's just going to be like a Jewish dad.


I am. Do Jill and Joe Biden. Yeah. Doing their best. You know, stepping up in a way. Yeah. Here's somebody that I think has done their best. Kendrick Sampson. He is. Real hot and he's on and he's on insecure, you know, he's on the insecure and he nice and he's and yes, he the social justice activist from.


Yeah, and he has this and he like and during Black Lives Matter, I feel like he's really like taken this incredible position of of like leadership in terms of like helping to motivate people.


And I just like and I'm a fan and and I really like him and I like the work that he has done. And I find him to be inspiring.


Yeah, he's great. And also, he's very hot, so you guys, I could he's very hot. It's really not that that's you know, it's not his fault. It's not Kiki Palmer. Oh, yeah. Doing our best. Doing your best this year. This year. She is just has so wildly funny. I need her like I need to work with her. That's like kind of a goal for me that I'm putting out there. Kiki, if you're listening, even if she just comes on the podcast, maybe that could be like working with her.


But she's just someone who is so consistently and naturally funny that it is wild to me that she's not ten times bigger of a star than she is.


Yeah, but what's amazing about Kiki is that I do feel like she's just kind of like doing what she fucking wants to do. And and that in and of itself is, as we discussed on this podcast, you know, what is it?


What does it mean? What does all of it mean? Like, she seems very content with her life. And I want her to be maybe she's got like some freedom in terms of I don't know. Anyway, I love her. Kiki Palmer, I definitely think has been doing her best this year. Selfishly, I'd like to see her. And yeah, I guess that's about and how she was so funny. And then I'm excited. I think there's going to be like a true Jackson VP reboot, which I think is fun.


And I don't think you guys watch that show. But I did. And I think it'll know it was done. And I watched. And the crowd. Yes, well, oh yeah.


She's going to be on the family, so she's booked. We'll see what happens.


I mean, definitely she's booked. I, I just. Is there anyone else that you guys want to add? I mean, a lot of people did their best. I mean, shout out to our sponsors today, the creators of Soul.


I think you guys really did well, not just Pixar. There's just like a black guy who, like, was his idea. So, like, shout out to him. Yeah. Shout out to people who, like, allowed that type of art to be made, like as someone who wrote on a reboot, like, obviously reboots are really popping right now. But I think that it's really cool that, like, when I see that movie, I think about all the times that I've been told no.


And now I'm like, oh, that's not true, because this is the type of movie that if you're a writer or an artist and you watch it, you can see how many people would have said no to that. And look what happens when someone said yes. So I think shout out to the people who, like, let this movie happen because Pixar also you have to invest a lot of time in it, like obviously they started in 1999.


But I think that it's really cool that to watch that movie and be like, oh, also like the guy who Jamie Fox plays isn't like something like sexy cartoon. It's like this, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, yeah. Regular black man got his story told by the biggest fucking studio, like in the world. And like so many creatives have stories like that and they're told, no, but like, guess what, everybody loves that movie.


So I don't listen to your haters.


And by the way, I love Jamie Foxx so much because again, so naturally funny, but also like a wildly gifted actor, but also like a really talented musical performer, like it's very hot in Hollywood break.


Yeah, I was I was going to say Hollywood break. He went to Juilliard. So it's a pretty good chance he played a lot of that that piano himself. Oh, wow.


And shout out to my friend. Graham Norton was one of the voices in the movie. Our friend Tina Fey was one of the voices in the movie. My friend Keira played the French horn.


So I was very excited all around.


Well, and I just feel like there's a lot of people that have done their best this year, including the three of us. This year started in a way that I could not have fucking predicted that this is where we would be right now. And absolutely not.


I mean, there's I mean, obviously, if if anyone had predicted anything, we might have been like, oh, well, I mean, technically, the Obama administration did have simply.


It's true. I mean, people have predicted that there's going to there would be like a pandemic at some point.


But there's a bunch of racists who voted for idiot. So there you have it. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to say. We could continue on.


But at this point, I feel like maybe we should let you go, everybody, and think about your own your own year, your own life.


You're not who who who do you think did their best this year? You should you can email us or. Commenter, I don't even fucking know how to podcast work, guys, but I'm really glad. I have to say, like. I don't know, I didn't know that this is where I would be here in New York, having sold my house in Los Angeles, the place I live for ever longer than anywhere else. And here, doing this podcast with you, too, I.


I'm so grateful for so many things this year, it's been. Undeniably difficult in so many, so many, so many, so many, so many different ways, but. At the end of this year. With this full moon and cancer rising. I feel grateful and hopeful. And I'm going to leave some fucking bullshit behind and I'm just going to walk very calmly and quietly into twenty, twenty one. Yes, that's it. I think it's I think it's very wise.


I just don't want to put any expectations on anything. I have nothing. I have no education. You know, I think what we have learned in this year is literally anything could happen. Oh, my God. We I just pulled my gratitude cards out. And the one that flipped up and here it is. This is what these are these cards that somebody gave me of like whenever you have an issue, you can't feel like there's anything to be grateful for.


You're supposed to pull one of these, you know, like an angel card or something like that. Yeah. Here's the one that just flipped up. We've sometimes been surprised by how things turned out. Surprises, good surprises and bad surprises, literally, anything could happen, so for better or for worse.


But I think when we're talking about the pandemic, we're saying, like people said, this could happen, but nobody really thought it would happen. But now we see that it happened. And so it really fucking sucks. And we've lost a lot of people and our friends have all lost people and people have people have lost a lot.


But if I'm going to take any lesson from it, it's that anything really could happen. And but that also means that good things could happen. Well, here's to good things happen in twenty twenty one. And here's to leaving behind some shit that you don't need any more moving forward, everyone, and. And we'll see you next year, busiest literally under I dropped one of the cards I had to get at, but I have to go get a covid test right now.


So I'm I'm OK to go get a swab up my nose and everyone guys, I love you.


I'm so glad you've joined us. This has been like a real highlight of. This year, which isn't saying much, but. That's a joke, but we love you. OK, it's a joke because, you know, it's a show like even the highlights are like. But we love you and I and be safe and stay safe and take care of yourself and each other and and we'll see you next year by everyone, I mean, I.