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I mean, I've cried a lot this week and also in our interview. I love that like several times I'm like, oh no, am I going to cry? Oh, no. Am I going to cry? Wow, guys, here we are. It's me, busy, Philipps Feels like it was just yesterday that we were talking and it wasn't was a whole week ago. And here we are again at the end of August the twenty sixth. I'm trying to do my best this week.


I haven't been doing great. I'm not gonna lie. But listen, I know we're OK. It's OK. I'm OK. We're all OK. But I hope you're hanging in there. I don't know, sometimes I think there's things that are just like that just happened sort of like energetically globally, you know, and everybody feels like a funk.


And then, of course, like because, you know, the world is burning and it's a total shit show and it probably doesn't help that the RNC is having there like weird ass can coked up convention this. We either to add to the energy being put into the world. I'm busy, Philipps.


This is busy, Phillips is doing her best to ladies are joining me, who are also doing their best. My friends Shintaro Jackson has U.S. ONJ. Hi. Hi, guys. I here's I just. OK, just on a positive note, here's what I did my best and here's what I'm continuing. Here's what I decided to do my best out this week. I decided to.


Like take. Some health stuff into like like do my best at that and try to really just get to the bottom of it, whether it's psychological and emotionally tied. And it's causing me to feel these things because, you know, I've had this sore throat and the acid reflux and then my physical therapist came over and he's like, I think you have adrenal fatigue and. That makes sense to me. I've been reading about it, and so I found this integrative medicine place that I have a consultation with today, hopefully.


Oh yeah, I know. So I think that's good.


And and then Michelle Williams, my best friend, not a big deal guy is she sent me like got her acupuncturist herbalist person.


I did like a consultation with that guy on the phone virtually, it's kind of amazing now you can see a doctor anywhere because no one really anyone in person. So they're just like, you can just see someone. And also, I realize that so many doctors appointments are just appointments so that you can go back to the house. That is the UPS person. I'm sure I leave this window open and then they wave to me like we're friends. One time a guy came and I was like on a call for like an hour and a half.


And I was like, oh, the people are here, I have to go. And he was like, Are you OK?


I was like, thank you so much for knocking. And then he came back again the next week and he knocked and he was like, Do you need me to help you?


Maybe he thinks you want to get off this podcast.


I had a shout out to USPS, shout out to UPS, FedEx, sometimes not as much as the other two, but these homies really coming in clutch when I'm on these calls, they like see the set up and he's like, I mean, you want me to be like, cool, dude. I love it. I love it.


Yeah. I mean. Right. We got to save the post office. Now, listen, yeah. It's a it's an interesting time. It's a time. I mean, I just feel like we will look back on. In the future as like a very historic moment in our country and world, and we're all being sort of like called to action in different ways and but I am tired.


I'm so glad you just said that. I am tired.


I'm so tired of being right. I'm so tired of being good. I'm so tired of helping. I'm not going to stop. Right. It is exhausting to be lying.


I just wanted everybody to eat and have shelter and then people be like, fuck you if like I like being able to pay their medical bills. Yeah. Not fucking medical bills. Like, I don't even know. I mean, look, we're doing our best. We're doing our best. I'm trying so hard, trying really hard. But trying is exhausting. It's exhausting. If you all are tired. Shout out to you band. You aren't the only ones.


And Ivan I like.


Yeah. Like I, I don't know, I've been trying all the things, you know to like help myself through this time and make sure that I stay sort of like filled up so that I can remain active and like make the calls for Alija MacLane and Briona Taylor and like and then it's just something else that comes in like fucking hits you in the face and you're like, oh my God, Jesus Christ, can we just get like a break every two seconds, two seconds.


And that's what they want, though. The whole point is to exhaust us. You go outside to to march to to donate your time, your energy, your money. You're like, cool, I did it for a week straight. And then it was like, oh no. There's literally thirty other bad things happening. And it's like I just started making bread. I just try to do like one really good, nice thing a week that like and this week it wasn't even super.


I don't think like I do a lot of call to action on my social media. And this week I saw some elders on a on a reservation want to pen pals.


And I was like, I'm going to do that this week. I decide what it's like. I can't do it. I was like, I can't do a bail bond this week. I, I just want to send a postcard to a very, very nice old lady.


I love that. I think that's really nice. But you are doing your best, especially in bread baking. I want it. I want those purple potato. I, I'll make you a new one. So it's like I only make like six or eight because like every recipe I don't know.


I guess it's like from back in the olden times when everybody had like eight kids, every recipe is like this makes thirty two rolls and it's like I'm not feeding the family of eight, I don't need thirty to roll.


So like I cut recipes up and I'm like six, I want six pieces of bread. Casey, I want to know how you're doing your best this week. Are you doing your best this week. How are you doing. Are you okay.


Yeah. Yeah I'm good. I think I had a really busy week so. Yeah. So same. A podcast is hard. Harder than I thought it was going to be, but no complaints. It's an adventure. I wrote like an article for Dotcom.


Oh yeah. I liked your article a lot. If you guys read it all, it's just dropping bombs.


It's true. And it's also it also sort of ties into our guest today a little bit because Casey wrote an article for you.


They they asked for her thoughts on what you can find out.


Yeah. Just kind of like how late night and daytime talk shows could do a little better behind the scenes, because I know we all know the the current situation that's happening. But this is a situation that's happened over and over and always.


Can I just say maybe people don't know how I tell you, like how I feel like, yeah, we know because we're, like, live in this world. But and it was like trending on Twitter. But there's a lot that's going on in the world. And so maybe you don't know that there was like a big sort of I was going to say curfuffle, but that that sounds like not like taking the stand off. Yeah, but the staff at Ellen, the daytime talk show, Ellen, basically were like came forward, a lot of people, and they said that it was a toxic environment and they had a lot of different feelings and and.


Things that they said happened while they were working there. I'm trying to be sort of diplomatic because I am sure and it was handled in interesting ways, and then I feel like maybe now it's actually being kind of handled. But all three on the show. Yes. Right. Yeah, right. Get rid of those men anyway by. And I was trying to be diplomatic as well, because as I said in the article, whatever show you think it is that I'm talking about, that's the show I'm talking about because I have friends that work at every show, you know what I mean?


So I've been doing this for so long that I literally know people that work at every show.


And this isn't like a super unique problem. Workplace toxicity isn't a super unique problem. I think it's it's really easy for it to happen. And I didn't really comment on the Ellen situation because I do have friends there that are bosses and I have friends that are workers there. And so I didn't really want to comment directly on that situation. I just wanted to say in my experience, here's a good way to sort of prevent this type of thing and like mitigate mitigate the the opportunity for.


Yeah, yeah. Toxic workplaces to to grow in the first place. And, you know, I have to say, like from my own experience working with you, you I knew that I wanted you to be my partner and my showrunner, even though I will say that, you know, I think that a lot of times the initial sort of knee jerk reaction from these studios and networks when someone new gets a show is like, who's the old white man who's done this for 40 years?


And that guy in because we need like a boss. I also didn't want what I also didn't want was somebody who was a woman who was just going to do the exact same thing that had been done forever and ever and ever. And the interesting thing about Kate, I mean, like. For those of you at home who don't know in interior can speak to it like we were very small staff of people of Hollywood break from a writer's standpoint, Hollywood break an average writer's room, like for your favorite sitcom.


Let's say you were like a real CBS baby, like you love the Big Bang Theory. Those rooms have like 12, 14, 18, 20 people. Cobert Same thing.


We had three people, one, two, three, one, two, three, three writers. And then like everyone healthy and me and then Casey and we're working our ass off. I swear to God, Casey and I had the same sort of theory going into it, but I wouldn't have had the ability to like, say with confidence, like, yeah, we can fucking do this. If I didn't have Casey next to me who's worked in this space for 20 plus years saying, like, yeah, I'm pretty sure this woman who, you know, is very enthusiastic but has never technically been a producer before.


Women don't be a producer. Women don't get to be bad at stuff like Ryce. Not having men would like they will be given an opportunity to learn on the job. Women will not take a job until they already fully understand how their bosses jobs work. So even if you like, think about patriarchy. Yeah, it's like, of course, of course, Casey would be a perfect showrunner because no woman is going to take a show running job unless they are capable.


Amaan, 100 percent will be like I never even watch TV on that show.


But the truth. But the truth is like, you know, Casey's article is bringing up such an interesting point because, you know, look like I just I know that a lot of shows of have made these pledges and like have these plans for like five year diversity, blah, blah, blah. It's like it got so long. It's it's also just it's just higher. They it's just not that tired. You just it's just you just said Abbas does it today.


Just do it. How you do it.


You do it today. That's it. There's no because by the way, all those five year plans and initiatives that you always hear, nobody ever goes back to check on the progress of them. Now let's start them. But there really isn't a lot of progress. Oftentimes, you'll go back and then a year later, someone will write an article about the stats on daytime and late night shows and they remain dismal. So, you know, so people have a lot of have the own lands.


But but also, like I think it's important to to remember that one thing that you made a point of doing was, you know, giving people shots. And white men are so frequently given shots in repeatedly, repeatedly fail.


But like but the opportunity to even get the shot is is frequently given to white men at a younger age and more frequently than it is to women and then especially women of color in this industry, probably in all industries, you know what I mean? But but again, it's not rocket science and people will rise to the occasion and sometimes they won't. And that's OK, too. And you know what I mean? Like, it's all it's all going to be fine, but you have to take the first step.


And it can't be this like ten year plan that you're like, we're going to diversify.


I am. I've been writing professionally. I've been in the industry like I got my first job in twenty seventeen, which isn't super long, but like the first black woman to ever get a late night writing job was in 2014. So, like, I'm, I mean, I'm three years in. That's like almost veteran, you know what I mean? And a lot of these rooms, the ego of the men who've been in charge for forty or fifty years, you get a staff writer, you finally open the floodgates.


Twenty three year old black girl comes in and goes, Hello, Mr. CEIBS, who's been here for forty years. I don't think that's a great idea. And then you can't ever get a job again.


Right, right. Right. Well, that was part of what I was trying to say too, is that like kind of, you know, if you look at your show and you realize you got a problem or you're starting a new show and you realize that you you know that you're going down a path where you have a problem, then you tried to add a woman or any person of color to your staff because you want to try to remedy the problem.


That's kind of like trying to have a baby to fix your relationship, you know? Yeah, that's a big job for a baby and the. That's a big job for someone who's brand new to your staff to come in and expect them to fix the conflicts, the culture. That's your job when you're the boss. And so that's what I was kind of trying to nicely say. I call a black signal. That's what I tell my agents. I call it the black signal.


And I'll get an email about a show in the room starts next week. Another Hollywood break. No room starts next week. You guys room start in two months, room start six weeks. You start at the end of the summer. No room starts next Thursday unless they already got a room. And it's full of men and it's full of white people. And then they sit down and they are like, they fucked up. And then on Friday night, I get a black signal being like, can you submit to this show?


It's Thursday. And I always go, Nope, I don't want that. I don't want nothing to do with that. You forgot about me. I know why I don't want to be in your room. Why? Yeah. Why would I want to subject myself to that? Well, anyway, layers, it's layers and layers of problems and I could talk about it. Yeah. I feel like you really did your best in that article, because I do know that that's a little bit of a tricky position to be in, especially like, look, you know, we're still working on putting together all of our stuff.


But like, you may be asking some people for jobs at some point, you know, you may be working with people at some point, you know, maybe you ruin my career right now. Well, me too. Me too. Me too. Blow blow that shit up. Yeah. Somebody on dies. Yes. No doubt. That was like somebody on Twitter.


We love reading all your comments on Instagram and Twitter about the show, by the way, somebody who was like, I want to know who the guest was that made Santero so mad. And Casey responded, I'll never tell.


And I wrote, I probably will say that guy is Gina got her lady puppy surgery, back surgery. Yeah. But when I went to go pick her up at the Animal House, I did this I talked about this on my Instagram stories. But I just I really do want to tell you, the animal hospital was doing their best as well. I arrived to pick her up post surgery the day after they kept her overnight to monitor her. And as I pulled up, you know, everything's covid.


So you go up, up outside and there's like a little check. And I'm like, I am here to pick up Gina Leonetti. And the woman's like, oh, yeah, you know, there's this fire alarm. It's been going I think we have to evacuate the hospital. So it's going to be a few minutes. And I was like, I'm sorry. What like what do you mean you have to evacuate the animal hospital. And so then I'm like standing in this courtyard with, you know, probably ten other pet owners.


Everyone's wearing masks. Obviously we're trying to socially just in. And then this parade of animal hospital workers and pets starts coming out.


I did watch that story and it looks like in Pee wee's Big Adventure when they're that's what I like.


I felt like I was in Pee wee's Big Adventure. You guys, they legitimately rolled two dogs out that were in the middle of surgery that were like being on like on an intubation like ventilator. And this one bulldog, I was like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Like rolled out on the gurney with the, like, anesthesiologist and intubated the whole thing. I was like really wanted to take a picture, but I was being respectful of the dog's privacy.


It is. You know, I just try to be I don't want to, you know, and I put that dog. It's like it's the same I won't post other people's children unless I have explicit permission from their parents, the kids themselves.


The Grey's Anatomy in me is like, is it still clean when you take it out?


You got you're not like I'm like I'm not sterile anymore, which is out and not with this raw dog in the air. We just outside I had a little raw dog, so wild dog. But it was really it was really a wild experience. And it is like one of those. It only happens to me that only about you. I was like this kind of stuff that if you took it to a writer's room and you were like, I want to go pick up my dog.


And there was a fire alarm, and then they took all the dogs out of surgery, the showrunner would be like, that is crazy. I'm not putting that in my TV show. It's that hat on. I got that one. You got to pick one. Oh, so weird.


I don't know what I did in another life to get such weird energy, but that's like finding this story. That's like a good story. It was a good story. Maybe, but that maybe that's it. Maybe the universe is like we need to give her some podcast content now that she can use these stories. That is the least entertained, the least. I agree with you. So we all know how we were doing our best this week. Let's talk about.


Who else was doing their best this week and had. Wait, I have a new screensaver as of this morning and it is Harry Styles in the strawberry, strawberry, strawberry. Do you guys know about the strawberry dress? I read a bit about it. I know it's expensive. The strawberry dress is expensive. It is a designer from New York named Lyrica Matosi, and it has become a viral sensation during the pandemic. I first saw it when our dear friend Tess Holliday wore it Grammys to the Grammy Award.


And I was just like obsessed with it. And then on Tick Tock, it got very popular. Yes, apparently. Apparently it has even been. Categorized under the hashtag Cottage Corps, oh, strawberry dry.


OK, and that you don't know what I'm talking about. I'll post a photo of it, but if you do, follow me on Instagram. So I did buy the strawberry dress Mark and I did. That was our like one birthday present to birdie this year.


She was so cute.


Per her request, the funniest thing when she was like, Hey, Mom, I know what you want. I know what I want you to get me for my birthday. It's a big present, but like, it's all I want. And I was like, OK, well, tell me what it is. And she's like, it's a dress. I was like, it's a dress. That's the one thing you want. And she's like, yeah, it's it's this dress.


It has strawberries on it. And I was like, oh, the strawberry dress. Yeah, I know what that is. Sure. Like that's that's cool. Let me look, let me look online. And she was like, how do you know what, you know the dress. And I was like, yeah dude I know the dress. I like the dress. Before you knew the dress I had it in my shopping cart since January. Like I said, since Tess Holiday wore it on the red carpet.


And I was like, that's what I want to wear that dress. But anyway, Harry Styles did like a photo shoot, and I love it, I love him.


I love you, I. Yeah, he has he has such an amazing fashion sense. And he does remind me, like of Prince in that. Yes, I think he just wears anything and he looks good in it. And it doesn't when he wears a dress, it doesn't make me think, oh, this dress is feminine or this dress is anti masculine. It's like, oh, this is a dress that should be worn by people with bodies.


Yeah, it's like art.


And I think he does like nod to Prince like intentionally a lot. So I love that. I feel like it's I feel like with Harry Styles it's like that. Plus a little bit like Kurt Cobain. I feel like oh yeah. I feel like he is like a little bit trying to like breathe a little grunge, toxic masculinity and like turn it on its head a little bit because you wear a pretty dress.


But he will look a little dirty. And also, by the way, like he should get all the kudos in the world. He's doing his best and he looks amazing. But I remember Tess getting some heat when she wore it back in January. People were really critical of that. And I just I think it's still bullshit. And so I just want to say that test was the first. She looked amazing, you know, ready credit. Just like your test is why I wanted the dress.


That's why I had it like bookmarks. But, yeah, because of how much I loved it on her. And I mean, like that is the fat phobia of America, though, because, like, the dress itself is art, right. In the first person to wear it, it's like, oh, this beautiful person is wearing beautiful art. But because she doesn't meet the the norms that have been set by the advertising agencies and stuff, No one everyone ignored it.


But tick tock, tick tock. Teens who are like very small, no very small wore the dress and then it became like, like fashion iconic. I think about like Gaby Fresh and the co-pilot. They wear cool shit all the time. It's like fashion is for is for bodies. And people don't want to pay attention until it's like on a smaller one, which is nothing's wrong with that. But still like credit, get credit credit, but also like it's an inherent bias that people have against like bigger bodies or whatever, you know, was why I would always take umbrage with those who wore it.


Best thing, because if you like, if you really fuckin looked at it, it was always people would always vote for the thinner person. I'm not even kidding like. And so it was always such bullshit because it's like it's not about who were at best. It's like what your I fucked up idea of what a woman's body should look like wearing clothes.


Do you know what I mean? I'm just like, why is it even a competition? Like why is it a competition if you put it on front waist and you didn't you didn't put it with the boobs part in the back. You weren't you were just great, honestly. Sometimes. I mean, it's cute, though, to put the boobs part in the back. If you do cross, you know, know you want to. But all I'm saying is, like, if you if you put it on and you went out, good for fucking you.


You did it. You you succeeded in wearing a clothing.


I love chemistry. Now, do you know who she is? She is the founder of my mega babe. Yeah. Mega Babe started with this like thigh like a.. Chafing rub, which by the way.


Oh if I had had that during my pregnancy it would have been a real game changer. I really need it. But she also has like boob dust for boob sweat, which, you know, I the biggest boob sweater of all time. I have really like much I like we can talk about this some other time. But like I said, we're now having so much time. I'm thinking about getting a reduction. Like when I hit my thirties, I really I'm at a thirty eight G.


Yeah, you have big, big boobs. And let me tell you, you're not, you're tiny. Does it hurt your back. But yeah it hurts my back. I like also you know, like when your parents tell you stuff and you're like whatever mom my mom was like when you hit your thirties your boobs are going to get big. And I was like, leave me alone. You see, I'm living my truth in these bees.


I hear thirty boom. W.D. I'm thirty three now. I'm at a thirty eight G and you don't want to have kids. Right. We're in the G Club together. Santero they're heavy. I mean Kacie just real talk.


They, they be heavy. Yeah. It's like having two extra heads. It's just too, it's too big. And also we did, we did a bra special on Busy tonight. I was like I spent a year wearing sports bra because I like literally couldn't find the bra. I was like, yo, I'm not the worst spoiled brat because these otherwise I couldn't it I went to GeoNet and we got our she was like. You're a 38 f 38 G and I was like, girl, and those boobs, those bras, one hundred and sixty dollars shout out to everybody trying to support those girls because that's like a small baby that costs a hundred and sixty dollars every time you want to get dressed.


Speaking of having babies, Chrissy Teigen is having a baby, but she's also having like another controversy on Twitter about so annoying. I was watching it last night. I was like, so I'm twittering. It's like, oh, yeah, I don't know.


She gets like she really gets the crazies. I mean, this is I'll explain to people. She did a little demonstration because as we know, Chrissy is a cooking expert, has several cookbooks, has cookware line, attended culinary school. So she just did a sit in the culinary school. She did, yeah.


So she just showed a simple tutorial of how to fry two eggs. You add up how to make perfect sunny side up egg, which like that's a great question, along with like how to sew on a button. Those are things like adults should know how to do but often don't know how to do.


So she did this really quick tutorial and then people gave her shit for it for being no one fucking dude was like, dude, one dude like tried to man explain to her that you can't use oil, you shouldn't use olive oil. Those eggs are going to taste like shit, which is like a have you ever been to Italy, you fucking idiot. Also, have you ever been to an Italian restaurant that serves brunch because you don't even need to go to Italy to have like you say, I've been fried in olive oil, that it's amazing.




And it's the way that he said it. He said rookie mistake and it's rookie move. Yeah. Rookie let loose.


And it's that's like what we were talking about, how a man will tell somebody who's been to culinary school that they don't know how to make an egg. This woman man kind of came to. Christie's defense, you know, she is the queen of the clap back, I like love when she, you know, puts people right where they belong. But this other woman was just like, dude, like, what are you what are you on about?


Like, this has been described as the quintessential way by, you know, Eric Repair and Anthony Bourdain and Jose Andreyev and then Jose Andreyev like, quote, tweeted Dan and said, those are probably the best ever and looking like tasty. Bless you because I Sunnyside Eggs ever filmed. What is he talking about? Chrissy Teigen. Keep it up. But Dan Hosie is an angel. Like, it's so annoying to me that people like Christie, who I think that she's a good person, she wants to put good stuff into the world.


She is doing her best. She is she's doing she is doing it. She literally has been doing her best since she became a Terminator. Yeah. And you guys know about my Terminator three. OK, that's a sidebar for the whole that's a special episode. But like, she's just like these times are tough, man.


This is like this is my internal monologue. These times are tough, man. I'm going to just like film myself making this perfect fucking egg and put it on Twitter. This is a nice this is nice. I would want this. And she posts it and two seconds go by. She can't get Dan and Bob. Dan shows up and he's like, your eggs are going to taste like shit. What is that inclination that these motherfuckers have to just like shit on a thing that like it's not a like why is it offensive to you, Dan?


Why Internet is the Internet? It's purely the Internet, because in real life, we don't do that to people. I just like I understand the desire to be seen.


I understand fundamentally that in this time right now, like we all are, no matter if you're Chrissy Teigen or your Dan or your, you know, a woman from Ohio or wherever you are, that you have a desire and a need to be seen and heard and felt because it's really fucking hard out there, you know, or in in here in your closet or your house or wherever the fuck you are.


However, why do people think that the way to get the attention is to put negative things out into the world? Because negative attention never does the trick. It only succeeds in making you feel more like shit. Am I wrong? Dan is not hungry for eggs, Dan is hungry for attention, right. And he got it. Also, I, I wonder, just have manners when you're speaking to someone out in the world, I think, like, I think something happened, I want to say about 15 years ago where I would always see people say something really unkind and then just say, I'm just being honest.


I can't lie, I can't lie. And I'm like, you can be honest and still be kind, man. If he truly was passionate about buttered eggs, he could have said, Oh, that's interesting, I prefer to make my eggs with butter. But it's interesting that you like it with olive oil. But he chose not to. He was just unkind and rude because people have no fucking manners. And I trace it back to this like I'm just being honest.


I'm just saying, like, you know, people are still using that wornout catch phrase. I'm just saying, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I know you're just saying something like don't say it to me.


Also, I think people need to make a distinction between being honest. About your opinion. Yes, honest about a fact. Yeah, yeah, like because there are those are two separate things. Your opinions are not that are not facts. They are your opinions. My opinions are just my opinions, guys. That being said, I have had the moments of life where I've been like the Kersee Tegan's eggs, you know, I mean, really not in this.


You know what I mean? Yeah, theoretically. Yeah. Cursi Deegan's eggs, whatever it was in that moment.


And I've, I've also had the self-awareness and the self-control to like not act on that shitty impulse and to be like, oh, you know what? This is about me, that's a shitty impulse, and I'm not going to, like, put anything out there, you can say it to your fucking girlfriend, Diane, or your husband or whatever. Yeah, well, it's the group chat. Some stuff you have to say for the group chat and everybody don't have no group chat.


Half the shit I see on the on Twitter should go to the group. Guys, this is it. I just this is like Shinjiro, this is your Oprah moment for today. Guys, you got to get a group chat for the things that you said. You don't you don't need to put into the world like publicly everything. Some things belong on a group thread with three other people and make sure that you and make sure that, like, you know those people very well and you love them and that you're pretty sure that they'll never use it against you.


But even if they do, I do think that it's admissible to say to others, I'm sorry, that was a secret group thread where we were just getting rid of, like, our stuff, save it for the group chat. And also if you need to have a subgroup chat. Yeah, exactly. You know, I had an ex-husband of a friend of ours.


I know you're making a big announcement. I had an ex-husband. No, like I had really never heard that would be like so fucking fascinating if, like in the like. Did you guys ever have friends who found out, like when you were in your early twenties that their parents had been married before to other people and they just never told them?


Like, it's crazy that, you know, I'm friends with my college boyfriend, Colin Hanks, and like, our daughters are best friends and it's so cute. I love it. And his wife and I are like very, very close friends and they're like family to us. But at some point, those little girls are going to find out that Colin and I dated and I don't even know. I would be super weirded out, weirded out if I were a kid and found out that, like Michael Colin, my date, my best friend's dad when they were nineteen.


But like Birdie knows and I'm like, Birdie, it's like, you know, it's like Santa, like you can't tell. It's just like, let's just keep it in a place where we don't get. What about Winter? Santa is the best and we love Santa, by the way. OK, wait, wait, wait. What was I saying. But you were saying have you ever had you know, we had our I had an ex-husband of a friend of ours.


I was trying to do the thing where, like, you remain friends with both people and like because like guys, it's not the fucking eighties like people can you don't have to choose. You don't get divorced. Right. And this is what happened. But like also everybody do therapy and like do your work. And unless someone is like, truly, you know, like, got some look, I don't know your life, whatever, you make your own choices.


But I do think that a lot of times there isn't a need for things to be contentious when people split up, you know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes it's just like we all have to accept that, like we move into different spaces and that's just what happens and whatever. But so and that's what I thought had happened in this relationship with my friends. And so I was trying to be friends with both of them.


And the ex husband and I were hanging out and he was like, well, you know what she said about you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


And I was like, Dude, let me tell you something. Do you know what I've said about her to Marc? Like what you say to your significant other about any of your friends is not admissible as a real thought or feeling like. And so everything that he was trying to, like, poison me against her with, I was like, you're just the asshole who's, like breaking the trust of a safe space to say gross stuff. She she she gave you shit and he built the circle.


He broke you you your partner, you're if you don't have a partner, you need to get a group chat. And if you are a partner and you separate, I want to tell you this, that if you break the circle of the of the trust of talking shit in your lowest moments to try to sell out your ex partner, you're an asshole. You're an asshole. Yeah. If you're going to lose, I think it's I think it's on you.


Casey, do you agree with me? You're just looking at me.


No, I mean, I agree that there's often things that I say to my husband, like, I can only say this to you and it's I realize that it's because I'm trying to, like, work it out myself, you know, I'm trying to work it out how I feel about it. And can I deal with what's happening. And, you know, and and it's a lot about how it's making me feel and why it's making me feel that way.


But you can't just say it in mixed company. No. So, yes, there's some stuff that only so can you because like, sometimes you just like like I can be an asshole real quick and then you like art asshole, and they know that you're not a bad person and they know that is not real. And you just get to say. How you feel and you like chips on the couch, you never talk about it, right? And I think the same thing is true, too, with the group texts, you know, like you can have you have to have like a couple, say, friends where you can just be like, dude, chickens, eggs look like shit crazy.


We love your eggs. I'm just saying that's what Dan needed, like a safe space. Your eggs looked perfect, but you know what I mean. I think you need to be aware that the things that you put into the universe. Like affect other people, that's it, that's all that's all that if you put something out publicly, you have it regardless of what your intent or your or your initial sort of thing, you have to be really considerate that you could be hurting someone else.


And you have to think about it like, is this fucking joke worth it? Or should I just send it to Santería and Casey? Yeah. And it's like, you bet, Justin, that anything that you're like this is funny just from my friend to listen to them. The Internet is not your friend.


Oh, my God. Say it again, Santero. Say it one more time. The the Internet is not your friend.


It must start online. If you don't if you don't have a group chat, maybe we can. We haven't made a Facebook page for this podcast yet, but maybe we'll do that. And maybe people that are listening can go on the Facebook page, meet each other and get a group chat going like a busy, busy and friends group chat. Yeah, because I know that it's weird out here. Let's I don't I don't like Facebook, you know, I don't have I don't, I don't I don't like it either.


I was like, OK, I know that it's really complex. I know that I'm in a complicated space because of my Instagram popularity and how much I love Instagram. And I know that they're owned by Facebook at this point. But like, if you need to be in a group chat, can we just do an experiment if you need to be in a group chat? Will you email our email and say, I need to be in a group chat?


And we will pair you with two other people who have written it, is that crazy? Do you guys think so?


OK, our listeners are also like very like nice people, I hope. And I think that if you're a stalker, is this do I have a liability in this by doing this? I know I always paperwork that can be signed, but I do think that our people would be chill and. Yeah. And and nobody be weird. Yeah. Don't be weird to send us an email to busy doing her best at Gmail dot com. Send us an email with the subject group text and tell us your name, your age where you live and three things that your three things that you're interested in and we're going to put together.


And you guys, I want to do this. If you want to do it, I want to do it. But I, I, I remove myself from all liability.


I want to be in your on your email, say that you you submit to having to being paired and having your email given to someone, a stranger who has similar, which I feel like that's I feel like that's super fun. Guy is I don't know, especially during right now. I know so many people who are like living at home with their parents or are like in an apartment by themselves or like I have really close friends who live close by, but we're not I mean, like, I just just because of my friends on the mouth, the times have changed, you know?


Which brings us to our guest today. I want to be on a good note. Ah, yes. I really had a lovely time talking with Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah, it was incredible.


And for those of you that don't know, our dear Casey St. Onge after she was David Letterman's assistant, guys, she could write a fucking book, but she won't because she's not that kind of person. I have manners, not me. I want the book would have already been out. She went to work on The Rosie O'Donnell Show. And so much of the stuff that we talked about earlier today, I really think Rosie is responsible for creating an environment in that show that was unlike anything Casey had ever experienced before and kind of showed you the possibility of the way that things could be.


And by all accounts, it was a pretty magical six years on that show, including including the fact that, well, I'm going to let you guys listen to it, because Casey has a really sweet she does a really amazing thing to Rosie that I'm just going to I'm just going to dare you to not cry when it happens. I just listening to it this morning, I truly, like, started crying. Listen, we've only had a few of these chats, but so far, one of my faves, Rosie O'Donnell.


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I love the singing and the vitamin I too.


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I'm so happy to know that this is not going out.


I took a bath, I tried to fix my hair and I'm like, no, it's not going out. I'm so happy.


Hi, Rosie. Hi. How are you? Nice, dad. It's so nice to meet you. I have been such a huge fan for so long. I would dream dream I would do when I was in college at Loyola Marymount University. Oh no. Am I going to cry already? I would drive back to Arizona and I would practice my interview with you in the car.


Oh, that is so cute. Yeah, I used to do that with Johnny Carson when I was like 16. I had pimples and I was sitting on my bathroom and I'd go like so Johnny Carson when I was 16, I use like room and to feel like I was doing like Jerry Seinfeld's. Yeah, yeah.


I was I was like my dream. I remember watching you and I grew up in Tallahassee, Florida, and that's the that was my first introduction to Broadway. I didn't I didn't know that that was like a thing that I remember being like all these people can see. This is so cool and I really want to watch those Couche toys.


I made a lot of money for that guy. I know.


Like, I feel like you made a lot of money for a lot of other people that we did. We made a lot of people, you know, I felt like it was a good use of my power to try to be like the Mafia for existing nonprofits that were credited. Right. So like if somebody said after I did Tickle Me Elmo, which was a real thing, son, he really liked it. So that's why I brought it on TV.


Then they would come in the week after and go, well, by the way, this is the new Dolly Lolly doll, the Lollie. Could you say you love it? I'm like, if I'm going to do things, I'm going to rip you off and I'm going to make you pay a lot to charity in order to get me to do something. And that's what we did. We raised millions of dollars.


It's genius. You are an influencer. You were the first influencer, essentially.


I really did feel like Robin Hood. I have to tell you, I felt like, you know, when when they would say, give away this toy. And I say, can you send twenty toys to this hospital? And they would.


I know. My God, that's amazing. He isn't kids. You send kids to college, you kept families in their homes. And everything that everybody saw on the show was only like one hundredth of it. Right, exactly.


It is innately my nature to be that way, like it has been since I was a little kid, like we won a bread album on a radio channel, WB Allai, right after my mother died. So like nineteen seventy three. And my brother Danny, who was a year older than me, he's the one who won it and the whole family like it was the first thing we did after my mother died, we all got in the car together and we went to Warbly and we got a brand new record and it felt unbelievable to me.


Like everything bad that had happened was like, look at this moment of grace that we're getting. And so to give someone a moment of grace to facilitate that and an actual real way, not like can you hold up the Lolly Dolly doll now? Right in a real way, then that's what was real about the show, was that everything was true except for I did know the mystery guests.


Are you like, well, you got to be prepared, you know what I mean? You don't you don't have a surprise, right?


I don't love a surprise either. No, no. I said, listen, I will fake anything you tell me to do, but I will not have you like come like how Ellen surprises everyone. I hate it. I've never done that show because I'm terrified she's going to scream, scare me, give me a heart attack now.


I mean, I don't know if you saw it, but a couple of years ago there was she scared Kris Jenner and that woman almost broke her leg. I'm telling you, it was like terrifying Tantra. You've seen it. We all watched it together. I'm scared. I'll cry. I was curious. I thought of you first. I mean, I knew of you first as an actor and like, you are really talented and super. Like, every time you're in something, it's critically acclaimed.


And I know this much is true. You're getting of course, like obviously people love you on that. You're getting rave reviews for that. But smell like you were like, amazing. But when you decided to do the talk show, I was curious, if you like, how that came to you.


Had you guest hosted with Regis in my head. That's how it happened.


That's exactly how it happened. I guess with him I had a new baby, my first baby, Parker Parker. And I remember I went to a movie, Harriet the Spy, and I had to get a nanny because I had met a nanny till then. And he was like. Eight, nine months old, so I got this, my housecleaner. Maria, I asked her to come with me to the movie set to help take care of him.


And when I came home after, like, the second day of 12 hours, he wouldn't come to me. He would he was staying with Maria. And I'm like, come here, will come. He would not come. And I thought, I need a job where he can grow up with his cousins and his family around him, where I'm going to be there every day to take him to school to do you know. And then Kathie Lee said she was leaving Regis.


She did it a lot. Remember, she would say she was leaving. One of these times happened to coincide with right after I filmed that movie Harriet the Spy. So I called my agent and said, tell them I want Kathie Lee's job. So they called. And at the time I had done it a lot. And I loved Regis. I mean, I just loved him, but. I said to my my agent said, well, listen, Kathie Lee is not leaving, but they actually want to talk to you about doing your own talk show.


And I was like, really? They were like, yeah, I was like, well, if I did it, I would have to do it. Like Mike Douglas and Merv Griffin when nobody gets hurt. I used to watch those shows and think, oh, my God, Totie Fields is going out to dinner right now with Sammy Davis and Merv and the comedian who was like, I had this whole fantasy. Right. And I thought that's where Hollywood was and where Hollywood lived.


And it was not what it is now. It's not like the Internet. It's not everybody like that.


And trying to get someone to say the wrong things so that you can, like, get a bunch of people to click on the article.


Exactly. And it's it's a whole different world. Like, I don't know what. I don't know how people stand it, you know, there are people who. You know, they just they live in that zone, and I guess you know what, the big pivot for me, because I know that's like a big thing. And this is when I left that show because I started that show because I had a son and I left that show because I had four children under the age of six.


It's crazy. It's crazy. I did what my mother did every two years. Give me another one. And if my ex, Kelly, hadn't said I'm not doing another one, there would be a lot more like eight.


I get it. I have two. But I have my my thing is like when they're further apart and I miss the baby.


I love a baby. I love a baby, too. It's incredible. So the pivot when you after your fourth kid to end the talk show, really kind of like it was still I feel like it was a huge show still. Yeah, well, you you went out on top.


I have this memory of like when they you know, when you announced that you were going to sort of go off the air and, you know, and we all knew that it was it wasn't a surprise.


We all knew that it was coming. But I remember that we had like a rap meeting, like a staff rap meeting. And I feel like I used to always work for whatever reason. We used to always end up sitting next to each other in big meetings.


And I remember our executive producer, Bernie Young, was talking to us about all the you know, the show's ending.


Here's how this is going to go. And I remember you kept whispering to me, can you believe it's going to be over?


What are we going to do exactly? You know, and people were telling me, Imperatori told me, you will never have this much power. You will never have this much money. This is stupid for you to walk away. You could, you know, have generational wealth. I said to my brother just told me that I have one hundred million dollars cheeseboard. That means that means it's time for me to stop. I have enough money. I can't use money as the reason.


But I had these four little children that my mother died at thirty nine. Right. She never got to parent her children, you know. So I left right at around the age that, you know, like my my oldest boy was about to turn seven, Parker was about to turn seven and I jumped and it took a while to get back to Earth. And you know, when you jump it makes everyone else in the plane question, why didn't they jump?


Right. Right. And so you get a lot of slings and arrows coming at you. People like people saying things that are untrue, that get, you know, and listen, Donald Trump didn't help with that for me. And then all of the papers that he was coordinating with and, you know, that whole insanity. But all that came after the show, because when you're on a show daily and people get to see you live, you're going to know that person.




By the way, Casey told me you don't love that view book, but I read it the.


Yeah. These two lunch thing. Right.


But I thought you came off really amazing on the book, in the book and and also and like very truthful and honest and like owning your own shit, but also just being like, yeah, it was weird. They they built like your personalities up on the show, almost like in a narrative like way to pit you guys against each other to create this whole thing.


That would have been like, I don't know, that must have just been wild after it is totally wild to do it the first time and then have the ratings go so high and have the you know, them asking, am I going to stay, am I going or not. And so my agent and my based on what I used to make on on my own show and you know, they asked for five million dollars a year, which is not that much really if we're going to for them for ABC.


And they got it to pay that. And I said, OK, then I'm going to go. Thank you anyway. You know, I couldn't do more fighting with people for a living. And then after I had announced that I was going to go, that's when it got really bad. Oh, man. Again, I was leaving like I was, you know, leaving, but I couldn't do inauthenticity. Right.


It also feels like you're somebody who is willing to stand up for what you believe in, like speak up for those who aren't able to speak up for themselves or help people out in that way. And that you feel injustice deeply and you want and you won't stand for it.


And that to me, that is really incredible characteristic. Feels like I was just totally exploited. Like if people knew that about you, like the producers or whatever, and that they just totally exploited that part of your. Personality to make you know, they're great at odds with The View, too, is that Bill Getty was the producer who was a very right wing champion, you know, and he's controlling the only show on TV where it's all women like.


I couldn't believe that he even would have a say in what we were doing. I felt that he was disruptive to the process and not helpful. And, you know, listen, it got bad. It's hard to take. It's hard when you're sensitive to take all the negativity that comes, you know, I left right before we got into the war and thank God that I that was God protecting my psyche and myself, because that was not a good time for me, you know?


So I feel like when I said I was going to pivot out of my show, that was from the beginning. I told Casey at the beginning, I'm doing five years and I ended up doing six. But I said, I'm telling you right now, I'm not doing more than five years, but she'll be six years old and he has to go to school. So I always knew that was the truth. Other people on the staff didn't seem to believe it.


And I really think I really remember we would line up at your office to do a writers meeting first thing in the morning every morning, like seven o'clock. We had already been there for an hour coming up with pitches. And I remember executives cutting the line every morning when the ten year end date was coming close, being like we just have to get we just have to get in there and talk to her for a second. And they were coming in there with checks, more and more money trying to convince you to stay.


And every time we'd go in and we'd be like, why did you tell him? You were like, no, I said, no.


And, you know, just that's the very hard to do. I'm telling you, it was hard to do because there is something that it feels there is some space in your life that it fills, but your perspective is so skewed as to what's important and what's valuable about you as a human being and just about being in the world as a participant. Right. It was it was too much focus. For not having a Daily Show, because if you have a Daily Show, you can't fake your essence, you know you can't and you can't.


Well, you can't, Rosie. I can't do that. Right. Right. And there's no amount of money or anything that could make me do that. That's why I have compassion for Ellen, right. I have compassion, even though, you know, I hear the stories and I understand I think she has some social awkwardness, I think, from knowing her for so many years that, you know, I have my own kind of history with her and.


Right. Well, they just ripped your show off. Well, it wasn't my format. I didn't create it. They ripped off the Merv Griffin off. But, you know, you're very humble. I don't remember like. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I, I can't own the format.


But was it weird that, like, my producers went over to her show and and that then a lot of it was. It's odd, it's awkward. And then, you know what ended up I never did the show and then people are like, why haven't you done the show?


I want to say a couple of things that I hope aren't digressions. First of all, the original intent of The Rosie O'Donnell Show, which I was there for from day one, might have been to emulate Merv Griffin. But Rosie, you innervated daytime television, television period. You brought music back to television. I was going to even watch Santería said to bring oh, no, I'm going to try to bring musical theater into the homes of people across the country who could only dream of going to New York City and seeing a Broadway show is so monumentally huge.


I mean, do you know how many kids in like Ohio, like you got to sell these can and no one doing it?


Still, every young waiter in New York says to me, oh, my God, you don't understand. I'm from Utah. Yes, I saw your show and read time was singing. And I'm just going I'm now I'm here. I'm trying to be an actor all the time. And I did think when we were doing that somewhere where sparking the new Sondheim. That's right. Well, we're talking some kid somewhere then.


Beyond that, in this beyond that, the comedy, the games, the song parodies without you, I firmly believe there is no Jimmy Fallon without you. I believe there is no James Corden on late night. One hundred percent and also just human interest. You made human interest a thing and you made women's health a thing and everything that was happening on camera that was inclusive and informative and was really, really funny, but had a lot of heart. The same thing was happening behind the scenes.


Our executive producer was a black man. I don't know. Was he the first ever black executive producer of a talk show? I don't know. But we had we had a fully inclusive staff. And, you know, when I got surprise pregnant, when I was twenty six, I knew that there was a place I could keep my job and come to work every day and bring my baby there, you know. So you were just you were doing a lot of things that.


It not just influence, but like made my whole. I don't know what my whole mission in life has been to continue to do things as well as you did them back then.


Oh, Casey, that's so nice to you. But there you were, this really intelligent woman who had been at David Letterman for all these years. And then you're like my assistant, and I think you're still a little shell shocked. And I said, like, what's going on? And you're like, well, I'd really like to be a writer. I'm like, OK, let's do it, you know? And you succeeded and beyond. Look what you are creating now.


This is a great I love the show that you guys did. I watched it with my teenager. Thank you. Like my 17 year old daughter who is very into it. And it was great. I think, you know, it's hard for women, period. It's hard now for the you know, but this is the greatest format, don't you find?


Yeah. Yeah. Because we're all like, I don't even have pants on right now. Right, exactly. I mean, I just feel like in just the few episodes that we've done so far, my husband was listening to the podcast yesterday and he was like, you know, that's what you wanted. Busy tonight to be remember you just with Santería and, you know, you guys just talking about things and getting into these stories.


But imagine if imagine if they would let you pick who you wanted to have that show. Imagine if they would let you make a new view, a really politically relevant view of you. That's not what it is on TV now. Right. What it could be worth at one point I say, wait, Rosie, are we doing this?


Is that what we're doing? I'm like, oh, my God. Unexpended, do you guys, this is what I love to do, if I could do this every day for a living, I would do it.


You know, I love your acting so much. I know I'm coming back to this, but I start, you know, as an actor, I found some fulfillment and I had some really incredible roles. And then I found a lot of times where I just felt like I can't work for these old white men anymore and like, be told to lose weight and to be, you know, just the whole thing. Like, I just couldn't do it.


And I would fill in a couple of times for Kelly Ripa with Michael Strahan. And it was around that time that I was really starting to use my Instagram, whatever. I was just like, this is it, man. This is the fucking life with my kids. I could, like, go do this show for a couple hours. And and it changed, like the way that I thought about moving forward. That's not to say, though, that I don't sometimes like want to go back to acting, although I tell everyone I'm retired from it.


What does it take? But now I say that conditions must be perfect in order for me to act.


What do you say in order for Rosie to take a role, what does it like? What does it have to have at this point?


Listen, I did a lot of movies for a woman my height, age, size and presentation.


Come on. I said to Casey, I loved East of Eden, right. Exited and failure to be an excellent help. You rented it. You didn't go.


And so I did a lot of movies with a lot of great producers and directors like, you know, Nora Ephron. Yeah. You worked with Nora Ephron a lot and many more people than have just, you know, like I was I had the greatest life that a comedic actress could have asked for of my generation. I was for a few years, three summers in a row. I was in the number one movie.


I mean, in my model. Right. That's really crazy, isn't it? Yes, that was my career. So when I got older and, you know, it was hard for people to. Find roles for women in their 40s and now I'm fifty eight now. I knew when I turned about 60 that I was going to start getting work right. I knew because I didn't have plastic surgery because, you know, they need a Geraldine page and pretty much everything they need.


Kathy Bates, they need someone to play that part. And I feel like I've lined myself up to be waiting for what will be my glory days of acting in the future. That's what I feel. But, you know, does it have to all work out? Yes. I don't get a lot of offers. It's not like a lot of people are. You know what my what my flavor of ice cream is? It's not like something new, right?


No. Right. So people had to take a risk. Listen, I know what an average person's face. I love my face, I think. And I don't want a better face. Like, I'm pretty happy. I wish my smile went up a little more grimacing. But on the whole, you know, the women who are beautiful and I've seen this in my career, all my friends that are beautiful and are now in their 60s, you know what a challenge it is for you, all the beautiful ones to have to stand.


In judgment. Being judged all the time for what is a look at your face, right, you have a mirror?


Yeah, like remember Rosie, when you didn't work in TV, you did like big movies and you got to work with amazing women in movies, but. Like as an actor on television, we and I would do like these episodic shows, right? Every without fail, every season, two or three of the directors would come in and they would be like men who had been actors on TV shows in the 80s or 90s, who then transitioned into being a director and know like very few women.




Early on, Rosie was a series regular on Give Me a Break, which was also like a little bit of a pivot, because I remember you used to tell the story about how you were doing standup and you knew some executives from NBC were coming to watch you.


Well, it's even better than that. Brandon Tartikoff with Lorne Michaels and Cher.


Oh, wow. Now, mind you right, I'm a stand up comic working at the Improv in in L.A., so I knew they came to see Dana and I was friends with the waitresses at this tiny club called Digby's. That's not open anymore. And I used to hang out there with sort of my home club. I loved it. It was small. I was friends with all the waitresses. So they held their checks because I was next. So they didn't drop the checks for and so that they had to see me.


So I went on and away from that. And that's genius from that.


They called me in and they say that Brandon Tartikoff walked over with Lorne Michaels and said, You're a very special talent. We're going to do something with you all my office in the morning. So I called my sister and said, I'm going to be on SNL. They were here for SNL. I'm going to be on SNL. I was convinced I was going to get to be on Saturday Night Live, but they said, no, you're going to be on the no partner show.


I was still thrilled because she had been in Ain't Misbehavin, which I saw on Broadway. So I was very excited to meet her. But she was in a very bad place when we were doing was really sick. She was really sick and she had gone through some addiction issues and some custody issues. And she was unhappy and it was very, very hard to be around. You know, she was it's really weird.


Rosie, you and I have so many weird things. My favorite. Broadway soundtrack when I was a little kid, so like you were at the Improv and I was a little kid and I had eight Misbehavin, the cassette tape, and I would listen to it over and over and over again.


And I still sing at night sometimes. Corica, I sing. Yeah. I don't say out loud. I don't care to go like.


Right. It's so funny.


Anyway, I love Nell Carter and she was, she was want to hear what she did the first day of my being on the set. Yes. Yes. We're in the lunchroom and we're doing a reading of the script. And the little boys, two little boys were like eight and five. Their mother comes in the room where we're all getting ready to eat our lunch and do our reading. And she sees her and says, Get that out of my dress.


Add up this reading room in front of the boys. What we did some jokes. We did the read through and the table thing was over. And she was pissed off at the script. My first day on the set holy shit hole in my first big break because that was it was my first break was to be on the show, you know, and I remember thinking, but Paul Sand was on the show, who was lovely, Rosetta Lenoir, who was who wrote Bubbling Brown Sugar.


You know, that was the goal.


And I need to know that, though. Yeah. Bubbling Brown Sugar. And it was Rosetta. And we wrote this musical and she was this classy old theater actress in New York. And I knew a lot about her. And she told me she had polio as a kid and her father would put her up with the polio braces on the piano and give her the microphone that she would just sing in Harlem.


What a great story. She the people. I had that to me. You know, that's something that's sometimes like it's trippy to me. You know, I like sitting in my home with my kids at the pool, you know, trying to get Dakoda to not be afraid of the cave. You know, I mean, that's that's what my day entails. But then I think or I look on TV or I see a brilliant performance and I go, I know them.


I think one of the things I really love to about the stories you're telling and the experiences that you've had is that in this industry, people will have like a good experience or bad experience and internalize it and decide if I'm ever going to be a boss, I'm going to be like this. And you took the situations and the experiences that you had and you said this earlier and you came at everybody who worked for you with Grace, working for Busi. The same thing I worked.


I fold the clothes. I worked at a comedy theater. I worked in a box office. And let me tell you, if you're an asshole to the people at the box office, they're going to drop the check before you get on. You know what I mean? Being being kind you being the type of person to go into a comedy club and knowing that those people deserve grace. They dropped the check for you. And guess what? Everybody wins.


So I think you have such longevity because you were a kind person. Yeah.


I think that, you know, you have the Charles Grodin wrote a great book about this. You know, it would be so nice if you weren't here is the name.


It was just so spectacular about treating the janitor the same way as he treats the CEO, which worked really well with janitors, but not so much with CEOs. Right? Yeah, right. And so he talks about his career in show business and and how we we forget, you know, I mean, when I was on the height of my show, like it was a very trippy experience. It wasn't like anything close to real life. You know, you get mass adulation from the multitudes every day like a shot of heroin in your arm.


You get people clapping for your very existence and then telling you how you changed and altered their life. And it's a lot to take in. And when I stepped away, I knew that this was all I could take.


Right. How did you. But how did you deal with it? What was your coping mechanism when I stopped?


Yeah, because then all of a sudden it's like more or less kind of gone. You quit the heroin, you quit heroin. So what's your methadone? Well, I started painting.


You know, I do very large paintings. And my brother said we have them all in storage and nobody really wants them.


And, you know, I want one. I would take one, which is where do you see it before you say that there enough.


Fair enough. Painting. Painting was the secret to detoxing. I think that from fame, from that high level of, you know, anything, are you hungry? And you get seven. Options, right? Yeah, you know, you want to chase this new ice cream, they just flew it in from Hawaii for you. You know what is like a never ending smorgasbord in Vegas?


You know, guys at The Rosie O'Donnell Show one day Rosie said on the show that she liked Krispy Kreme doughnuts. And we didn't just get Krispy Kreme doughnuts. We got the whole fuckin machine that made the Krispy Kreme doughnuts hot like the hot donut. Oh, that's so delicious in the game. Yes. I mean, just from her mentioning. Yeah. So, you know, that was a lot of. And that that drains on your soul, you know.


I mean, it pulls you away from your true Athen essence. And, you know, you can start to overlook things.


I mean, well, my husband was saying this interesting thing because there has been a lot in the last year or so of these, like the idea of like a girl boss being canceled, you know, and some rightfully so.


And for some of them, it's like you read some of these things and he's like, you know, they always expect women in power to not just be the boss, but to also be the mom also like be like deliver on the thing that, like you are putting out there.


But I think I think you suffered from that a little bit too rosy. I think that, you know, I think that one of the things I always was surprised about is people would be like, Rosie is tough, you know, like she's a tough boss. And I was like, no, actually, like I've worked in a nursing home. I've worked in retail. I've had tough bosses. She's direct and she's has a vision. And she wants us to carry out this vision.


And she's right about the vision. So, you know, so it's really weird that you're painting that is tough because I always I love instructions, you know, that I think maybe I don't know if you remember this about me. I love instructions. I love to be told this is how I want it. And then I'll bust my ass to make it how you want it. And so I always loved that you would be like directly. This is what I want.


X, Y, Z. Can you do it? Great. Go do it. You know, so I never saw that as tough. But I think because you are a woman and I think whenever you, you know, you were you were crowned the queen of Nice. So whenever whenever the show was over and you took off the crown and had your sweatpants on and we were getting to work, people would people who worked with us would be like, you know, oh, she's she's not like smiling and laughing.


And I'd be like, no, she's fucking doing business is working.


She's doing business.


Like, we're all doing business like we're all trying we're trying to find Rosie. I know that you said that it was a weird experience to have people come to you in adulation and tell you that how you change their lives. But you allow me to be one more person to say that. I just want to tell a quick story and maybe we'll cut it out, but maybe we'll tell it. When I was first made a writer on your show and I had come to your show as your assistant and I enjoyed Rosie as an assistant and she, like, fired, promoted me to a better job because you said you were like, you're irritating to me.


Your style of being an assistant is irritating to me, but I like you and I want you to stay here. So I got another job. And then when a writing position opened, I was made a writer and I was it was my dream come true. My dream come true came true when I was twenty three years old. Like I didn't have any ambition beyond that to be a writer. And so I would go in to pitch every morning and my hands would shake and my voice would shake.


And you knew me a little bit already and you asked our head writer like what? What's the deal with Casey? Like we know each other. Why is she, like, shaking? Like she can barely speak. And so our head writer, Jeanette Barber, was like, well, you know how writers are on thirteen week contracts? And you were like, no, I actually don't know. I explained to me what that is. And so she said, you know, everybody is only hired for 13 weeks at a time and she's already a couple of weeks in.


And I'm sure, like everyone, she's very nervous that in 11 weeks this could all be over. And, you know, she's starting from square one. And you said to Jeanette, oh, OK, then do me a favor. Go to the show's lawyers, pick up her contract for two years, then go to her and tell her to relax and learn how to do this job. And that changed my life. You used your power to change my life, and I know that you did it for so many other people.


Well, I love you, Casey. That's very, very sweet and touching of you to say. And, you know, we had a good thing there. I got to say, we had a really good thing. And I loved all the staff. And I I was happy for the six years, the years that came after it was just, you know, they were tough to get my descent back to Earth. But that's where I want to be is and, you know, on Earth.


And I still have a very privileged life and a very you know, I'm still reaping the benefits of that show financially. I will for the rest of my life, my children will. I you know, I was very, very lucky timing. And it was like everything came together perfectly.


You know, we were lucky to know. We were lucky to get to watch it. I was. Huh. Rosie, thank you so much.


Well, it's very fun to do any time you want me.


I mean, I'm like, we're selling the real man. That's right. Go sell it. I tell you, you sell it. I'm on board. I know that.


Ghias, do you know that I had horrible vision my entire life, like I was like negative five fifty or six fifty and one I like negative seven in the other. Yeah. Like legally like not it was not good. I always had to wear my glasses and then I got surgery.


And I have to tell you something that happens after I got that surgery. I weirdly missed wearing my glasses. Also I'm just a real sunglasses person because I have light blue eyes and I feel like they're very sensitive. You know, that one time I got snow blindness from that photo shoot that I did outside and I had to go to Cedars. That was scary. If I had been wearing sunglasses maybe from Warby Parker, that probably wouldn't have happened. I love Warby Parker.


I have loved Warby Parker for years. I remember when we were filming I feel pretty in Boston going into the Warby Parker store and just having a field day. I remember going to Warby Parker store in San Francisco when I was there for the comedy festival, having a field day. Now, I'm not going into any stores, guys, because covid. But you know what Warby Parker is doing? They have home try on cats. You take a quiz, you order your home, try on, and then it comes.


And here's the deal now with all the time that we're spending in front of screens and the home schooling with the girls and everything got the whole family, the blue light filter lenses, which Warby Parker now has available. And it's perfect if you're concerned about the effects of blue light and you know, you can just you just add it to your order during the checkout. And I like the aesthetic of Warby Parker. Like, still my favorite sunglasses are from years ago.


You can't even get them anymore. And the best part is that I have brought them back to Warby Parker multiple times and they've just put new lenses in them for me. Are these light pink frames. They're really cute. You guys should try. Warby Parker is free home, try on program, order five pairs of glasses to try at home for free for five days and there's no obligation to buy if you're like these all are not my style and I don't want them.


That's not a big deal. It ships free and it includes a prepaid return shipping label. And I just like I got to tell you, I just love I just love Warby Parker. I really do. All their friends are cute. Their frames are all cute. I love these. They're kind of like everybody's face isn't always made for certain glasses, but every pair that I've tried on from there has been great. And maybe I just have a great face, but I'm going to go with the glasses are good.


They have they have really good glasses. And yeah, I also I like I feel like I met the guy that started Warby Parker and I really liked him. He was really nice. You know, it's, you know, it's really cool. For every pair of glasses that Warby Parker sells, they distribute a pair of glasses to someone in need.


Right. That's that is true. I love a one for one program. Guys, I'm very excited for you to do this just because you're stuck at home. Does that mean that you shouldn't get some new cool frames for the fall? And I love you, Warby Parker, and I love you guys. Try five pairs of glasses at home for free at Warby Parker Dotcom. Our best no obligation to buy Warby Parker Dotcom, slash our best. Do it.


Do it up.


Oh, I loved that, I loved talking to her, I loved the Gosse, she gave us some old hot gas. Yes, old hot. So that was the thing we loved on Busy tonight. We loved old hot gas like gossip, you know, that no one particularly cares about at this point. But we do want to hear it.


You get to see the ripple effect. You could be like, oh I want that. Nineteen ninety three. I want that Nell Carter. God, I want, I think I want to know who she called a cunt. Like I want to, I want to know everything anyway. Rosie, I adore you. I look forward to talking to you many, many, many more times in my life.


Now we're friends. Now she's my friend. That's right. Baby girl. Oh my God. Yes. Put her on a group chat. OK, guys, we've got we've been getting some of your letters. I'm super excited. Some advice. Some people who had some ideas, some people who just want to say hi. And now you're going to be emailing us if you would like to be put on a safe space group thread. If Dan from Chicago is listening and wants to be put on a group thread so that he doesn't feel the need to tell the world that Cursi Deegan's eggs don't taste good, find another place to get your group thread.


No getting down. I would put you on a thread with someone. Just got me. OK, we got this letter and I mean I have feelings. OK, so hi. Busy KC and G.A.. I am struggling with myself lately and knowing the right way to be true to my purpose. Oh yeah, I hear it. I'm an interior designer in the high end sphere. I'm good at my job. I could do that thing we women do and be falsely modest, but it doesn't seem to be the place for it.


It's not girl. Just tell us how good you are. She's great at what she does. She loves her coworkers and a lot of the aspects. But if I'm being honest with myself, I really struggle with the idea that I'm helping rich folks make their homes pretty when so many people in the world and our country in particular are fighting for basic human rights. My undergraduate degree was in poly sci, had dabbled with the idea of a career in policy work or something social science related before I change tracks to pursue interior design 12 years ago, I've been trying to fill that gap with my work on my own time writing, calling representative, speaking out of my own life against injustices, donating money to righteous causes and helping to bring a more philanthropic bent to my company.


It just doesn't feel like enough. At the end of the day, most of my clients are wealthy and white and not really who I want to dedicate most of my life to helping. I like my job. I love my coworkers, but I feel like I'm not fulfilling any greater purpose for the world. How do you know when it's time to pivot and want to pivot to? How do you work at the courage to leave a good situation in pursuit of fulfillment or purpose?


As amorphous as that is? Thank you for any advice you may have. Well, let me tell you something. You just made the first step. It is time to pivot, my friend. I know, I know anyone else, this is what I'll say, OK, this is just me, right? I before I got my first writing job in comedy, I was living in Chicago and I sincerely looked into running for office in Chicago, starting small and then getting bigger.


And I and I decided that I was like, if I get a job writing in the industry, I won't go into politics. But if I do not get a job within a year, I will dedicate myself solely to like policy change and what I ended up getting a job. And for me, what I've learned is that everybody plays a role and you don't necessarily have to stay in one lane. But this is what I'll say. She has access to influential people and lots of money.


Her perspective is important because they might not ever, ever talk to anyone, let alone let someone in their homes with the perspective that she has. Also, she makes good money. I make good money being a television writer and I have a stupid blue checkmark. And if I tell people to donate something, I can get ten thousand dollars donated to a thing as opposed to if I didn't have a blue checkmark. Also in the money that I make, I try to give more than if I if I didn't work in the industry.


So I think that, like, it's hard to find the balance, but like if you really think you're good at what you're doing, you probably make bank and can help and be very influential in those circles. But also, if you want to go do something else, it's never too late. I feel like I just feel like what I'm hearing from this letter is that she ultimately is like this is a moment right now. And she's right. Like this is a moment right now where I think that if you feel like.


You want to participate more, you should do it, you should take the leap because, you know, the truth is you're right. Yes, Shantaram, you're right. But I'm going to kind of I'm just going to I'm going to make a lot of assumptions based on this, because we don't have we don't have all of the information. I'm going to assume she's white, this woman, and I'm going to assume that. And I'm going to assume that she already, like, you know, comes from kind of a place of privilege.


Right. Like you. So so that having access to that and like being in those spaces won't change, you know. But if she's feeling like a pull to.


Fulfill a greater purpose in her own life. I think that that is this is the moment right now where it's worth leaning into what that is. And I would just say that and making changes on that level is like where we're going to start to see some real changes in our own communities. So I would say possibly to go to, like, run for something or, you know, or Emily's List and and like, see what kind of help or guidance you could get from them.


Like just do like a little fact finding. Absolutely. I think that honoring the part of yourself that I'm not fulfilling a greater purpose for the world, maybe because it sounds like she works at a firm like a design firm with other people maybe coming up with your own plan of a philanthropic arm for the company. Maybe that's a thing that your company can do and you can spearhead and that can be your contribution. You know, I was I was going to say it sounds to me like I'm really loves what she does.


But also she said the phrase, it's it's never like doing what I do to help other people is never enough. I think the first thing you have to acknowledge is that it's never going to be enough. We were talking about it early. We were talking about this earlier. Right now, there there are so many needs to be addressed in the world and each individual person can only do so much. And it's also still OK to enjoy what you do.


It's OK to be successful at what you do. So I feel like maybe it sounds like you're not ready to make an entire pivot, but maybe you're ready to make sort of a philosophical pivot and a shift in your priorities, sort of like this with saying like maybe you can volunteer with Habitat for Humanity, which, by the way, was like the greatest week of my life when we went when I got this, like, group of friends together 13 months after Hurricane Katrina.


And we went and volunteered at Musician's Village.


And it was truly the greatest week of my life.


I think for me to like I really believe that right now, so many white women especially are really feeling feeling that pull to like pivot into this like social justice and the the political sphere. But I will say this. There are people already doing that work hard. They're doing it and they've been doing it for a long time. And so this is for everybody who wants to be more politically involved. I would say before you even go sign up, go talk to the women in your community that have been doing it for ten years and they will tell you not what inundated.


They tell you exactly what's needed. And I bet you one hundred percent, the thing that you thought was the road away from what you wanted is exactly what they are missing in something that has already been built from the ground up. And you will be so, so happy that you have 12 years of interior design experience with major corporations and big money, because a lot of these places are doing the work, but they don't have the clout, you know what I mean?


Even if you go to something and you've never done it before, you could be like, I work for this firm and you can give credibility, credibility to someone who has been doing the work. So I would I would say, like for me, I think that no matter what you do, like, follow your heart, obviously, but don't ever for a second think that there aren't people on the ground doing the work that you want to help with.


I would find those people in the community and see where you are needed. And if there is a gap, go fucking fill it.


Yeah, and I, I think we can we can all identify really strongly with what you're saying, because Cynthia and I are comedy writers. Busy has been an actor and there have been I guarantee all three of us have felt a million times like what we do is kind of useless and stupid and not important. A that's not really true. I think it brings people joy and I think that it brings people together and it's so whatever. But when you're feeling like that, there have also been times when I've had someone reach out to me from Emily's List and say, hey, we need a TV writer to come help us think of like this campaign that we want to do.


Can you do it? And so it feels so good to have someone turn to you and say, actually, your talent would come in really handy for us right now. Will you do it? It's such a good feeling to be confident in your abilities and your talents and doing something. And then to have somebody who's been doing the work all along say this is how we could use you.


You also have to like remember to keep that everybody works better. If you're like if you this is like a thing from DeRay McKesson, right. Like, everybody works better if they're if you can think of yourself as like being in a chorus, you know, and if you're just joining the chorus and you're like, I'm really a tenor and they're like, we are full of tenors. But if you could go over there for one second and learn the alto part, we will get to, you know, I don't know.


No, but you know what I mean. I think that's the thing, too, that I've learned is that, like I also talked to my therapist about this, is that everyone has a role. And even if you want to be a tenor, if you are about the work, you will be an alto until a tenor space opens up. Because we're all in this chorus together. I just watch Distractor and we are trying to win all state.


It's such a that and there are so many metaphors. Yeah, it's it's such a trap that we fall into because I think that in our careers we're taught to like rise and rise and, and to try to climb to the top. But when you're trying to do volunteer work or helpful work, that's really not the goal. It's not the goal to rise to the top of a volunteer organization. It's to do the work that actually helps people. Correct.


And here is the other thing I want to say, because we all know I'm such a credit bitch. Being in an activist space and working with organizations for the last decade, I have really come to realize that credit is not where it's at in this. And when we're talking about this and that's also like that brings me to the Rosie, you know, back to back to our convo with Rosie. You know, you were like it was one tenth of what you were actually doing.


And I put a lot of my shit out on Instagram because I want people to, like, donate and I want to help elevate different organizations and forums. And like that is part of how I use my white privilege and my platform.


But I also do a lot of fucking shit that I don't talk about that I don't need to talk about, because I don't need, like, any kind of like Pat on the back for just participating in my in the world. I was like a decent fucking human. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. If you're doing if you're doing it for a cookie. Yeah. Just make don't just make a cookie because because honestly. Because honestly it's like and you're and you'll never get what you know, you will not get the cookie, you won't get the cookie.


What. You will get an oatmeal raisin gold.


And what you want is a gluten free chocolate chip and the size of your head make your own cookie because I believe had a lot of lessons in here today.


I believe a good you know, me too. And I I'm not like when I started, I mean, I didn't even know how I was going to make it through the opening without crying because I have had a really rough week. Oh, no, this is where I go. Right.


But I feel really good.


And I'm glad that you guys are here with me. And I love you. And we love you, too. We love you this real good. Okay, this is guys. Can I say something? Don't tell the others. This is my favorite group, chop.


Um, OK.


I'm going to try to go eat like some salad. Thanks for doing that on the podcast. Casey got so mad at me. Also, I didn't give you the tow update. I went to the VA. I always invested in the toe, the toenail that fell off. I got really invested. I got. OK, Casey, turn your headphones off for one second. I got into a really fast and then we'll go. I got he lizard ate my toes.


He's like, oh yeah, you've got like an infection but it's not, it's not super bad. Yeah. I have to go four times per laser on the toes.


It did not feel great. I'm like, I got to look this up because I like really want to see a laser on a toe.


You can come with me next time, wear a mask. You, you've sign a thing. Come with me in six weeks. OK. OK, Casey, we're done with the toes. We're done. Thank you. The good news is hopefully by next summer, hopefully by next summer my toes will be beautiful again. All right, guys, listen, it was all a lot we got we had other letters that we didn't get to, I feel like we talked too much, but I was just going to say, we'll be back next Wednesday.


Email us your questions about Pivot's busy doing her best at Gmail dot com. Also your million dollar ideas that you never executed that then someone else came up with and made a million dollars. Follow us on Instagram at BP is doing her best. We only have one picture posted and two hundred followers. So follow us there if you want to keep up with the podcast. And do you want to say bye to everybody busy.


You guys, I love you so much. Thank you for all the kind words if you have something really nasty to say. Take it to the group text, I love you and I'll see you next week. I love you. Well, you'll hear you. I'll hear. You'll hear. You'll hear me next week. OK, well, that was my best guess.