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I can't make a PowerPoint presentation, obviously, you know that about me. Oh, I understand that. You know what, Casey? I said at the time, no, I OK. All right.


I didn't mean it that way a little bit. She meant it that way, I. Hi, guys, welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of Busy Philipps doing her best, I'm joined her yuge by KC St. Onge here shallow. In a minute, Raymond Patison is going to join us as co-host for today. And here we are, Casey, here we are, here we are back again. We took a week we took a week to review everyone.


Yeah, it was so nice. All of your messages worrying if we were OK. Well, to be honest, I don't know if I am.


Let's just I'm going to be I don't have time for fucking bullshit. I'm not sure. Not sure. Yeah, so it's I mean, listen, who is OK, that's the thing, but we had realized it had been like 30 weeks since we had taken a break and we were like, let's give ourselves a week off.


We're the bosses of us. We are the bosses of us. And we. Yeah, and we did those 30 episodes. And we even when I was filming the TV show and power through and then we just needed a week off. And you know what? We might need a week off. In the future. Yeah, it happened. We might need I mean, I don't I can't even I can't predict what amount of time off we may or may not require of ourselves as we are our own bosses.


Raymond is in my closet and he's joining us live. As you can see, Raymond did not help me fix my closet yet that fell the rod.


They're coming they're coming tomorrow to fix the closet. I do think we could do it ourselves. I'm not kidding. Yeah, I think it's just a screw popped off or something. And then I added one more sweater in. The whole thing came down. Yeah.


Got screws fall out all the time. It's an imperfect world. You know what movie that's from now.


Now. But it sounds familiar. The Breakfast Club.


I'm not great at knowing things like that, you know what I mean? I think it is.


Anyway, I could be paraphrasing. I haven't seen the brass breast vest. No one knows. Oh, God, I have not seen the Breakfast Club movie in quite some time. I'm surprised. I'm surprised. That's not one that they have redone. Yeah. Yeah.


Well, busy. You know this I told you this that I have been working on. I love John Hughes movies. I know they don't really hold up necessarily so much in the year 2021. Ray, you're so young. Do you know from John Hughes movies at all?


Yes, of course. I've seen The Breakfast Club. I've seen with Molly Ringwald, you know, like she's there. Yeah.


Yeah. Molly Ringwald was such a hero of mine, but I've been messing around with a little bit. It could never be done. It could never be made. But messing around a little bit with a script for a movie called Forty Eight Candles, where it's Molly Ringwald. Forty eighth birthday and her family fucks it up and I just would like to make that movie.


Where are you sex. Because I don't, I don't know because I'm, I'm forty eight.


Oh right. OK, I'll give it maybe like 16 times three is forty eight.


Oh interesting. OK, well I like it and I would watch that movie but you know I like want to encourage you to continue on that path anyway, the screenwriter route. But I want you to write the movie for me first that you're working on. So I'm working on.


I know guys. Well, here we are. We're back. We're back. We took that week. We regrouped. I didn't really I don't know if it was beneficial for me to take a week off at all. In fact, I don't think I accomplished much of anything that didn't make it worse. Maybe it might have made it worse. Yeah, it actually might have been. We might have been.


The thing is, when we do the podcast, like we talk about things like maybe it's helpful and like maybe we made it worse.


Well, for sure. I mean, I do I have to turn my volume down because I can see that my levels are off the charts. I forgot how to modulate my voice with that one week off. I know I'm too loud. Anyway, shit's gone crazy for me in all kinds of ways. But, you know, here's what you got to do, guys.


When shit goes crazy, you have to call your therapist, schedule some appointments.


You have to make sure that you're doing things that help you like working out, which I did realize last week, because I had had that bruised rib and blah, blah, blah, I like wasn't doing any sort of exercise which, you know, really impacts my brain space and really is a thing for me and one.


Of the reasons why I'm not going to cry. Oh, no. Already it's OK. I know. But one of the reasons why. I like started doing my workout every single day many years ago, was because of the noticeable difference that it had on my anxiety and my mood, regulation and stuff. Um. And then I, you know, a little bit kind of like fell into a well, like Baby Jessica and I or my iPod and I like just couldn't.


I just couldn't I just couldn't get on that and I just couldn't do it. And I and, you know, and my ribs hurt and it's just been you know, it's been hard, but I.


So but I dragged myself to that trampoline on like Saturday, I think. I also like we had a good thing that happened last week. Which was the like we had this offer accepted on a place here in. New York and good, yeah, it was great and super exciting because I feel like, you know, I'm. We are a home that has three. Cancers in it. The astrological sign, cancer, and therefore our shells are of the utmost importance, and when we feel like we don't have our shells on, we are like.


Naked crabs. Yeah, and. That's not a great place to be, you know, no naked crab is the salad. It's the saddest looks. Well, that's essentially what we are where crab salad right now. And and bird to even the bird is a LEO. They still have, like, you know, it's been really hard. They've felt in a lot of ways, like very unmoored by this move and.


Also, because guys, you know, we didn't bring everything here like we don't have. It's not we like moved into a partially furnished place. We have some stuff, but not a ton of stuff, some stuff. It's just like a mess. Right. So anyway, we had had this offer accepted on a place here that we were so thrilled about.


And we showed the like showed the kids the pictures over the weekend and like, it was like going to be perfect for our needs moving forward and like giving them just a grounded space. And New York real estate's wild, like in L.A., I signed so many offers back and forth and countering or whatever. In New York, you don't sign anything until it's just an accepted offer, a deal.


And so they have the deal memo to sign and they change their mind over the weekend and decided not to sell the house at all. I know right now it's like fucking wild.


And also, like, I was devastated, like yesterday. I could not stop crying. I wrote you can ask Ray. Yeah. I was like, wandering around the house weeping.


Yeah, that sucks.


You were like your own baby, Jessica, you know, except the. Well, is this rental unit. Well, no, and I know all the things we know all the things, of course, something better this it wasn't the right thing.


Something better is going to happen, but a little luck. But I just wanted it fucking done. I wanted one thing to feel like I knew what was going to happen, you know, and like in on the at the tail end of this one year of such fucking uncertainty, you know, and like so much change and so much.


Weirdness I just wanted. I think that I felt like. Was stable, you know, and I guess it's not that thing, but it was really it was really hard for me and obviously and and Illiana went and interviewed with the people that bought my house for their their kid for it to be a nanny.


Oh, my God.


You're really Raila's shuk. You didn't know that. I didn't know. You didn't tell me that was. That's OK. Internal Gosse. OK, well here's yeah. Hot hot internal staff goss'.


Right ok Thweatt.


So Illiana is my kids and my let's be real beloved nanny of over 12 years.


All right, yeah, yeah, that's right, Illiana, if you read my book, I talk about Illiana at great length, I post about Illiana, you know, Illiana, like, really made everything that I have been able to do in my career and a lot of stuff in my personal life, like totally possible for me to do while having children, you know, because I grew up like, you know, most people without my parents didn't have I didn't even have a consistent babysitter, you know what I mean?


Like, right. Right. And. And I didn't really know what that what that was like, having somebody help you with your with your child care and. And at first, I didn't think that I like it was you know, it was I went through a lot as a young new mom, like I had postpartum anxiety, which I've talked about before. And this is in my book. And like, I didn't want other people to, like, really hold Berdy or help me with Berdy because I felt like they were going to do it wrong.


And like I just remember so clearly and we had had like a couple people I sort of met with, but I was very uncomfortable with all of it, you know, and and I had gotten Cougar Town and it had been picked up. And it was just like very it was clear I had to have someone to watch this baby.


And an alien came in and just like. Picked Berdy up and Birdie just like nuzzled into Illiana, and it was and like and I just was like, OK, yeah, that's it.


Like I just knew and and then Nuna really just like, took care of me and helped me in so many ways and and I love her so much. So she Illiana was able to come out to New York and visit us for three weeks. She quarantined in a hotel. And then, you know, got tested and then came over and stayed with us for three weeks, then it was so nice for the girls and then, you know, she needed to go back to L.A. and she's like, I guess you guys are staying here.


And I was like, yes. And, you know, I mean, we had talked about it before, but she was like, I really am this time. I'm busy like, you know, like this whole time she's been in L.A. and she was watching our cats for us until they got out here. And so I was like, well, I'm just like I'm paying the same amount that I've always paid. Not like she just, you know, she hasn't been like she hasn't been nannying.


She's just kind of been hanging out, you know. Yeah. And I think that that was good for a while. And then I think Illiana was like, I am bored and I would like to have a job, so.


So she left, she went back to L.A. and I wrote this letter, you know, like just to help, like a recommendation letter to to get in on her next family to help her find her next family. And she sent me her resume and I attached the resume and sent the letter to.


You know, like mom contacts from the schools my kids went to before and and some people like just that I thought might know people that had like small children or babies. And in the first two days, Eliana got one hundred and thirty calls for interviews.


Incredible. Whoa. Fucking a hundred and thirty, and I'm still getting she's she's still getting calls and I'm still getting emails from people because I left my email, my information on there just because it's like, well, I.


Maybe that maybe I should have directed them to you, right? I don't know, because now I didn't think it was going to go so far outside my immediate circle of people. But, boy, has that thing traveled, Ray, like Ray, his face. You're like, that's incredible crazy.


I'm so happy.


I am shocked by actually, I'm not shocked by all the calls. Yeah.


I wasn't shocked by all the I mean, I was shocked by the sheer number of it because I thought like because that's like a lot like that seems like a lot of people that are like need a nanny, you know what I mean.


But but also I just I love it on I mean, like when you know, like, I can't do anything today. I'm sorry.


OK, like, I don't want to be like one of those fucking, like, white ladies talking about their kids. Know you like you know what I mean?


I read that fucking book, you know, you don't know which book. What is that book called?


I don't look. And it's like about the Brooklyn like hipster family and the nanny that works for them.


And it was like on Oprah's list. Oh, like two years ago. Oh, God.


I think they're making it into a movie which is about like just about like, you know, unself aware, like white moms.


You know, we only ever had a nanny for like two months in Brooklyn because my son learned to talk really early and she could not handle our stuff.


And she was just like, this kid does not shut up. And he is like too heavy to carry around. I'm so sorry. So funny. I'm giving my two weeks notice. Well, that's probably also true of a kidnapper.


So you're not there to give him back.


You would just be like our kid would come home and be like, mom, Nora took me to McDonald's two times today.


Oh, my God, that's fucking hilarious.


And he would be like Nora said, my diaper really smelled bad. Oh, my God. She really keep rats out constantly.


He is super heavy. And I just I'm not I'm not here for it.


You superheavy like he my son was super tall and so. Yeah, Eli. And so he was you know, he was he was young. I was the same way and my dad was the same way. When my dad was a child, he was very tall and therefore very heavy, but still like in a stroller. So people would always ask my grandmother like, oh, what's wrong with him? And she'd be like, oh, he's like one, you know, like you can't back.


But that was the same with. Oh, really? Yes.


Because but also if you have kids that are like preternaturally verbal. Yeah. People always assumed that Bertie was like a year old. You guys, to this fucking day, people assume that Bertie is like 15 when they hear them talk. Yes. And I'm like, no, not even 13.


Not like they it is. And it would always I would do this thing on the playground. Can you see you know, we've talked about this.


Yes, I would do this thing on the playground with Birdie with one where I would like loudly to know what to say, say birdies age like as if I were saying it to birdie but like just like because I wanted the other moms at the playground to know that the way that Birdie was acting was appropriate for their age.


But the fact that like Birdie was speaking in literal sentences at age one, people assumed that they were like well over two and. But then like what? Like was like falling down and like couldn't really do, you know what I mean?


So I would like really it was I mean, also, you know, let go of that. Like, who cares? I'll think about your kids.


But like I do remember as a first time parent big so like why was wild. It was wild.


I'd be like, my gosh, you 13 month old are so crazy. But anyway, that's really funny. Such a fun age is the book that I was talking about. Oh, there you go.


OK, yeah. Such a funny I don't know how but it doesn't matter anyway. I mean it doesn't surprise me.


Nana got a hundred. I mean we've been in a pandemic for a year. People have been fuckin obviously. Yeah they are. They all have three month old babies. Yes.


You know that's true. That's true. It's really. Oh my God. You're so right. The the covid baby boom.


I haven't looked it up, but I'm assuming there's a lot of three month old to. Well. And one million babies. Yeah. Also to your point, anyone that didn't get help because they didn't want to bring someone into their house during the pandemic. So they've been doing it on their own maybe for like a year. Right. You know what I mean?


And people feel ready. A lot of people feel ready now to have people in their house again and help in their house again, especially because I don't know a lot of places. Child care workers here in New York, child care workers are eligible.


Yeah. And a lot of people probably feel ready to never see their kids again.


Interesting. Yeah, I don't know what that is. I can't possibly relate to that so. Well, anyway, so that was my that's my Nanna story. I like I'm so excited for an honor to have a new experience with new little kids. And then also just so sad for myself.


Obviously, it is sad because she's like a family member. I'm sad. I love Nana so much. She's just such a loving and welcoming person. And it's really rare, you know, that's like just a vibe that is very important to me. And people like just someone who's instantly welcoming. And Nana has always been like that, just always like they're happy to see you. I don't know why Nana would ever be happy to see me. I'm not a kid, you know, like like I don't know.


She's she's just she's just like a really nice special person. Yeah. And and I think that, like, Nana loves taking care of kids and like really is into it, like really loves their different weird personalities and like plays with them.


And like the amount of times this was in my letter to that I sent out.


But like I cannot tell you, in those early years of Cougar Town when I had such guilt about leaving Bertie to work and I would miss the baby classes, those developmental baby classes, the music and the whatever gymnastics were, they just like take a parachute and just like throw it over. The baby is like the whole time and you're just like, what is this doing? But the amount of times that then, like, I would have like like an afternoon off of shooting Cougar Town and I was and I would be like, oh, I'm going to go to the baby gym class.


I'm going to go to the baby music class or whatever.


And I would take Berdy and other moms would come up to me or the teachers of the class would come up to me and say, like, you are so lucky to, you know, that your nanny is playing with that baby, the entire class, and is so engaged with that kid and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


And I didn't even like at the time because I had never had any help, obviously, and I've never had a baby. I didn't even realize. But then as like as I did have more experience and then with cricket and I saw like, how rare that is to have like.


Ah, my kids were concerned they have such a close, tight bond with Nana because she really, really cared for them and there are so many there are so many nannies and like babysitters and child care workers who are the same are like that, you know, really love working with the kids.


But there are also, like a lot of people who, like, want to actually just have other jobs and they're like doing it for a minute.


Well, you know, the difference between someone who's just doing it because it's like a job right now. But like for some people, it's really a calling in for Nana. It's a calling. It's her calling.


Yes, I know. And so anyway, I just love Nana. But but that that's been that was hard. That's been hard for all of us. And like, even, you know, sometimes cricket has a hard time asking questions of things like of things that she doesn't quite understand, like like what it means that Nonna's, like, not going to be working for us anymore. And the like a week or so after Nana left, cricket was just in such a bad mood and then was crying so hard before bed.


And I was like, maybe you just you got to tell me what's going on. Like, I can help you. This is what parents this is what moms do. This is what parents do best. Like, I can help figure it out, whatever it is like I can figure out help you figure it out.


And cricket was just like I just I'm never going to see Nana again. And I was like, oh, no, Greg, no. Of course you are like, of course you are, sweetheart. Like, you will be in touch with Nana forever, you know, and you can always FaceTime her or text her and say hi.


And but she'd been holding on to that, like without without verbalizing it because she was afraid.


Yeah. You know. Anyway. So. Yeah, that that happened. So this happened are we can we can we can can we just, like, not cancel whatever?


Can we just end up can we just like all agree that we need to stop using that as a caption?


Yeah. Or like I did. So I did a thing so I did a thing. So this happened. So this happened. And it's like your wedding. It's like I just write a fucking real thing.


My little caption, you got married. That's exciting. Yeah. It doesn't have to be. So this thing happened. I roll emoji.


I get it. I get the instinct to like minimize, minimize you like that. You don't want to tempt fate and you don't want to show your hand that it means a lot because you don't want to wear your heart on your sleeve because it's got those hearts out there.


Put your heart on your sleeve, man. I think it's hard. I think it's because people it's like their natural inclination to, like, not be vulnerable on the Internet because it's such a violent place.


Yeah, right. Like, if it's right. And I also maintain, you know, I have a lot of theories about this, but I also maintain it's hard for people to be genuinely vulnerable and not like.


Doing a thing where they're. Do like a performative vulnerability.


Yes, you know, performative vulnerability is like actually not vulnerability, that's just like you're just doing it to get a response anyway.


OK, well, that was that was that I have had therapy. My therapist gave me a good thing for me to do, which is a practical thing, which is to make a list of all the things that I need to do and then go through that list and think about which things can be postponed, which things can be sort of.


Maybe there's some things that can be crossed off altogether and then which things really need to be accomplished sooner rather than later, because I've been a little bit depressed and I've been finding it very hard to do things. Haven't made the list yet, but just make a list that does make the list.


Yeah, you guys, here's the list I want to show you.


Here's the list she's showing us her journal that this would put and make a list right there, make a list. But, guys, I mean, if you're out there, if you're also in a similar state, maybe because I feel like it's. It's a common one these days. I do think that that's a great practical thing you could do, and I guess you just have to do it. I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm working toward that.


It's really helpful. I live and die by a list. And I you know, I'm the same way, busy. I really getting depressed for me, really just shut me down and I just can't move forward. Yeah, it really just it shuts me down, it shuts me off, and a list is really a rope to pull myself out of that hole. So I hope you're able to do that and even call on me, even if you need me to write that list down for you.


If you need Raymond to write that list down for you, if that's what you need to just like get one thing going, we are here for you because, you know, I feel for you. I've definitely been there. And we're team you. We're rooting for you. Oh, that's nice.


I'm rooting for me, too. I just, like, don't have any fucking this is the thing that I've always like. I don't have time for this shit, you know, I don't have time to be depressed and like sad about so much. Guess what you do.


I guess I think your choice I think that you have to like, realize that like because I am the same way where I get paralyzed, I'm like, I just don't have time to do this, like, I'm just not going to.


But if you instead allocate, you know, like I'm going to deal with these feelings for twenty minutes, you know, like when I first got here, this was it's really hard, you know, and so like.


At the end of each day, I have a routine where I take a certain walk home and I have only that walk to cry or like, you know, like. Not think about, like, everything, you know, but like in six weeks, like that walk is instead of becoming my moment to cry, it's like this is mine. It's evolved into like this is my twenty five minutes of like, I'm not going to think about work. I'm not going to think about all the decisions I'm going to make.


I'm just going to look around and like experience something new because like I wasn't doing that before and like this is all I have, you know.


So it's like you never know what I could turn into. So before you should be like a really sad walk home.


And now it's like, this is my breath of fresh air.


You know, when you don't think about work, does that mean you don't think about me?


I'm good.


I'm good.


I'm I'm also into really I'm also really into parings, sadness with like, you know, mundane tasks. Like I'm all about like, well, you have to fix your closet. I'm all about like, well, I'm going to sadly fix this closet. I'm going to tearfully rehang these clothes, you know what I mean? I'm going to angrily organize this garage, whatever, you know, and it just it kind of works that kind of fuels if you're able to do that, if you're able to do that, not always, but sometimes it's helpful.


Yeah. I mean, I do feel like I was I did I had gotten that like pep from the. The house and then I organized I did did like cleaned, I cleaned, I didn't organize, I like clean shit up because I had been not doing chores. Yeah. Household chores and stuff. Like, I was in that place and I wasn't working out and I was just like eating like just bad food and like not doing good things for myself.


You know, the things that I know you like me. I was, I was doing all the things that I know make me feel worse. Not better. Yeah. And yet I couldn't fucking stop doing them, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was a bummer. But then when I did have that like a little glimmer of like something with that house than I did, I did get I had a pretty good weekend and actually and burden I had a really fun time on Sunday making cookies for the Grammys and and then watching.


Bertie's beloved. Harry Styles perform, although I was disappointed that he didn't do like more of a medley.


Yeah, why didn't you do more of a medley?


I don't know. Poor management. There was something controversial. Oh, no. What I'd like, as you know, the resident homosexual here, I like you know, I'm representing a lot of people, but it's one too many feather boas. It was one too many. He had a feather boa for each outfit.


There were three outfit changes. There were three feather boas. It's too many feather boa.


It was weirdly math teacher because you did your math teacher just have like a uniform in high school where they just wore like a blue polo shirt and khaki. I don't remember it. I don't think it was the same outfit three times over. Right.


Just like there was no letter. There was the like Mick Jagger leather. Yeah, it was the performance. Me and all I saw was the feather boa. I just with a feather with the Grinch feather boa.


Then there was the clueless inspired blazer, which is just what I've been trying to I've been trying to have that look for many years.


The clueless look, can I just be honest? The clueless look was like my number one. I was a fucking sassed with the clueless like I was, too, but I just thought it was too many feather boas.


It didn't need it, you know, I mean, agree to disagree on the feather boas.


And then he did the portrait studio.


You know, how you would be like Usher guys all into those like portrait studios after people when you were a third look with a third feather boa where I didn't see that.


You have to send me that picture. I'll send it to you. And you're like in I'm surprised Bertie did send it to you.


Like, it's like it's like this is a one sided relationship, you know what I mean? Like, they don't send me anything. I berty them, but I'm never I'm almost never getting a response, you know. Yeah.


My interest in Harry Styles is just only extends to trying to see what I believe he's doing in homage to Prince. I believe he's a big Prince fan. Prince wore feather boas to many music awards shows. You know, Harry Sign of the Times. Prince had a sign of the times, obviously. So that's that's all I'm paying attention to.


And I have to say, I didn't even really watch the Grammys because I don't know, I'm just like not in an awards show frame of mind.


Well, me neither. But I do think that these were the best Grammys I've ever seen. Yeah, I heard it was great. They were so great because like, what I've always hated about the Grammys is that they do it at the Staples Center and it's like they have a huge crowd and everybody's like sitting in the audience the whole time. And you're like, you can't you never know. And because it's like so huge, it's like packed with so many fucking people.


And so it's not like you don't get to see the stars. They're like surrounded by like music leaves labeled Apple. Yeah, I was going to music executives like label people. They're like, you don't care who those fucking people are. And there's so much there's so much extra like in the Grammys normally. And they because they couldn't do it, it was like they had these little cocktail tables and it was like Taylor Swift and her guest and like Lizzo and her gaffed and then at the Harry Styles and his manager and then like, you know, it was just so Beyonce and Jay-Z.


Yeah. Yeah. So it was just like you just saw the people you want to fucking see and you didn't have to see anybody else. And then the way that they did the performances in the opening was like Jools Holland, you have loved it. Yeah.


And so they just like sort of like cycled around the stage where they were all sort of set up in different ways. And here's another thing that I love. It's about the Grammys. I was introduced because, you know, I'm not you know, I'm like very much an indie music bitch. Yes.


And through my kid, I've been just dragged into this pop world that I am, you know, OK with it.


But like but celebrities like that come really into Taylor Swift, too, which is like so funny for me and adorable and like, I love that song lover now.


So they're. Raise a big to take Swift fan, I wouldn't say big, I would just say, like I got into my car, you were driving it, and it was like a whole album of Taylor Swift was playing. Yeah, it was. Here's the thing. I would say that I'm an album iste and so I listen to a full album and give it a shot and complete it for nothing.


Yeah. Completist. I think not for nothing. Her album is. To me right now, in the moment that I'm experiencing, I can feel happy and sad at the same time, you know, OK, I don't know. It's like that Kacey Musgraves song. Yeah. And Kacey Musgraves said that was an album of my past was one of the current.


OK, got it. Well, Bird loves loves Taylor now and. So that's been on heavy rotation, I thought Taylor's performance was cool and Billy Eilish, we watched that documentary. It's really good.


I don't want to see, but I want to I always it's interesting when the artist, like, wins the Grammy and then they, like, spend the whole speech talking about another artist.


You see that how she like she was like saying that makes should have one which. True.


Like nobody had a bigger year, but it's always like just a little uncomfortable, you know. Yeah.


Like Beyonce or Adele did it with Beyonce. You know, I just it's just like we totally understand. But then it's like what do you do with that.


Yeah. Why? Because like, are you going to give the Grammy to. Yeah. Right. Yeah.


And also not for nothing like no shade to Billie or her brother, but you know, Finian's was just standing there so eager Beaver to speak and he couldn't because his sister gave the whole speech to make so well Fania's is like as much a part of that music and totally, totally is.


And those are his moments to like, you know, accept and. How old was she?


Like, nineteen twenty. I don't know. I can't. Someone very young anyway.


So by it and SILC Sonic or whatever.


The new band. Yeah.


The new supergroup. Yeah. Yeah. Anderson Pack and little tiny little teacup. Bruno Mars.


Mars. That is what I watched a clip of that and obviously I died. I obviously that's my jam. Yeah.


Yeah it was my jam too. I was like so fucking into it. Wouldn't have known that was even existing were it. Not that I watched the Grammys with Berdy and then. Dear baby, I loved.


So remember, like 20 minutes ago, when you're like, I don't want to be one of those white ladies who talks. Is it. OK, listen, is it is it little baby? What is it? There's no way to get it wrong. You did it.


It's just the way you said it's just a baby. Yeah. It's kind of like when they used to talk to that little dinosaur and that dinosaur.


So that is got to love your it baby. I, I am the baby dinosaur. You know that. Oh my gosh. So funny. That is. Yeah.


No, what else I loved about the Grammy's. One of our SHOWBIZ Tonight producers, Carly Siegel, was our producer on the Grammys. Shout out to Miss Carly. I saw that.


I saw that on Carly's Instagram. Congratulations, Carly. Really moving on up in the world. Everybody from busy tonight has gone on to do great things. Well, and here we are.


Yeah, well, doing this podcast, I think you've gone on to do great things. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're great things coming. All right.


So we loved the Grammys, even though we didn't entirely watch all of them, all of us.


But maybe we should like to me, it was like because I didn't watch the thing originally. Oh, my God, there's my headband in your closet, which happened. This like Whitehorn, one that's been missing.


Oh, what? I know. I didn't I saw that. I literally almost threw it out. I was like, what is this?


Yeah, I went everywhere. I always like you look like the guy in Pearl Harbor was like, head's bleeding. And I'm like, oh, it's it looks like a bandage.


Yeah, I get it down, get it, get it down and showcase the guy or I went Bobigny and then I cut the beanie because I just wanted a white or off white headband.


But the thing is, is you have to fold it so that it doesn't look like a bandage.


Just FYI, Biz's in her room and raised in her closet because that's like how Jenky we have to do this just so rageous found his. And it does. I mean it looks like you sweatband.


Yeah but it does look a little and they just sound so weird.


Looks like a sweatband you know, just being the like eighties Flashdance girl I always wanted to be.


Yeah it does. Your skin looks really good. It does the job and your skin looks good in that closet. It is weird that you're that we made you go in a closet.


Yeah. Like on principle. I didn't want to record them here because I think it took so long to come out of the closet where we are. Here we are.


If my recording stuff hadn't already been set up, I would have gladly gone into the closet. The closet is my happy place. Yeah. Isn't, isn't bad.


It's I like enjoy being in the closet and it doesn't hold anything for me like emotionally you know.


So OK so I guess I did my best. I don't know whatever. Yeah. What do you feel like you did your best at this week. You haven't gotten to the list yet. I did start working out because I knew that that was like even though I didn't want to, even though I knew, but I felt like that was the thing that I knew is going to make a difference in my. Ability to continue to do other stuff and get other stuff done.


Yeah, so. I did get back on my workout train as begrudgingly, but I did it. I saw you sweat and I did it.


Yeah, ampersands fucking videos again on. This is like day three or four, I think maybe three. And so I feel like that's that's good.


That's I and I and I. I'm trying to do my best at like even though I can't. In some ways, shop for myself in this moment, like showing up for the kids. I was just going to say that I think you did your best with like you hate watching award shows. I really don't know that you love baking with the kids and like you found a way to make the award shows work for you. That's true. And cricket.


Did a PowerPoint presentation saw that? That's right, because it was truly iconic cricket, once a goldfish.


Well, I think you have to finish tell us to see getting the fish.


I mean, I think so, Ray. Like, how do you say no to that? Yeah, we I loved that fish in L.A. that you killed Ray.


I didn't kill the fish.


Raymond, I didn't know I'm going to be 100 percent honest, I may have killed the fish by indirection and that like, I don't think that I properly knew how to have the our house keeper clean the bowl.


Got it, because here's what happened, Nonno was like, you have to clean the fish bowl and I was like, she's like, just ask the housekeeper to do it. And I was like, OK, easy. Like, what are the directions? And she's like, just put the fish in a picture and then clean the bowl. I think that one. Yeah. That now that doesn't work. So I thought I should have done more research.


But no offense. No, I was not moving six ounces. That's on me. That's on me. I take full responsibility for the death of the fish.


Also, wasn't that not the first time the fish died? Cricket ever listens to this podcast and we become we don't feel bad. They had one of the fish had died before and then we did.


Emily brought over another fish and we just replaced it because I didn't want to deal with having to tell the kids that the fish had died.


I mean, I was nervous to tell you about technology. And I was like, are you with the girls or with the kids? And you were like, the fish are dead.


And I was like, yes, I knew it. Well, anyway, I think I really liked that fish cloud. So I think we're going to get cricket a fish.


Thankfully, Birdie now does not want one, so that's a good thing.


Just crowd only. But she just cricket. Cricket. Cricket deserves it. She did a good job on that PowerPoint. She did a good job on the PowerPoint. She is a really sweet kid and she's doing so well in school and is working really hard.


I just feel like I'm trying it's real fucking hard for me to do it, but I'm trying to think of some things to get them off of devices. Yeah, but also this I mean, this past year has been so this is I feel like this is my most relatable thing that I'm going to say. To anyone out there who has kids, like I just like I just gave up, like I was like, well, they're just going to watch.


As much shit and like whatever as they're going to watch, and I'm not not I mean, like, can I do something about my kids were always we got my older son, I think, a cell phone.


When he was ten, we gave in and got him a cell phone because things were going on in his life. And we just felt like this is the moment, even though we were cautioned against it. But it enabled us.


We we gave him a cell phone because we were like, here's the deal. We're going to put like a location tracker on it.


It's going to enable you to be able to go around our small town. So but we're going to know where you are in the town. So we're going to know if you're at the library after school. We'll know you're at the library and we'll know when you're say you're walking home, that you're walking home. So that was the thing that was like an agreement that we had in our family. And then there were times when I would be like, dude, you've been you've had your nose in the phone like all day when he was 14 or whatever, and he'd be like, oh, my God, I'm sorry, I'm reading The New York Times.


Sorry, you know?


And then I did. And and then I, I'd just be like, oh, I it is I who am sorry, you know. But even now, like my my son is on his laptop all the time and it's like he is using an like an app to watch a movie with his girlfriend, like, you know. Yeah.


Because like there's like an app where you can watch a movie together with someone who's not in the same house, you know.


Yeah. You know what you're talking about.


I mean, I look and I and I think it's difficult because I think people get so many like people get so Jaji right. Like, you know, and so then you judge yourself and you feel like I'm like I should be doing things that will.


Expand their creativity or like these kids don't know how to be bored and like great ideas come out of boredom, but it's also like. OK, but maybe this generation isn't going to be bored, maybe they're going to do a lot more, you know, maybe they know, like we don't know where the world is going to be.


We don't like climate change fucking sit ins. I don't know. Can you imagine if people were, like, walking, telling Albert Einstein, like, get your nose out of that book? You're walking around looking at books all the time. You you know what I mean? Like instead of crickets ability to make you guys you understand I can't make a PowerPoint presentation, obviously. You know that about.


No, I understand that. You know what, Casey? I know. I give me. OK, all right. I didn't mean it that way.


A little extreme case where I didn't. Casey sent me a Google Docs over the weekend for a project we're working on.


And I literally was like, so angry immediately.


I was like, I get out of that. Why is it working? How do we get over this? Oh, it's like I did it, though.


I you did it. You did it. You did it. I was really I mean, it's I was scared of Google Docs at first too. But also like I'm mad at Microsoft Word because now you have to like, subscribe to it. And I already bought it. And I'm mad that you have to subscribe to something that you already bought that's annoying anyway. OK, guys. So that's what you're doing your best at.


Yeah, I think I'm like trying to. Be aware that, like, even though I may be feeling some kind of ways about some shit which I am and having my own, we all are.


We all are.


No, but that I have a responsibility to these people that I give life to, to not forget that they also feel all kinds of ways about all kinds of things and like. And what they really just want is like. Their parent to be there, even if it's like. You know, birdies at the age where it's like you can ask. Them to share anything, but if they are in a mood and they happen to like, come down, right?


That's what Anita Franco was saying in the last interview, which is so it's so true. Like, you know, if if the mood strikes and Bird wanders in here and is like, oh, my gosh, X, Y and Z and X, Y and Z, you know, then it's so I'm so I need to be not like, you know, face down in a pile of laundry.


That's why I love a car ride. I love a road trip because like I feel like the bumps in the road just jiggle things right out of a 13 year old kid.


Yeah, I knew a mom. I had a mom I knew had a mom friend in L.A. whose kid went to school like clear on the other side of town. And I remember they had older kids than my kids. And I remember being like, it's not impossible. What do you guys there's no bus. You do that drive every morning. And she was like, are you kidding me? It's the fucking best. I get forty five minutes every morning and that kid talks to me.


I was like, Really? That's nice.


And yeah, I thought it was so cool Mom that passed out on every road trip like I immediately just mouthed her mom. Yeah.


My dad always drove. My mom would immediately fall asleep because she's like a mom and you're like the mom's up till 3:00 in the morning packing everyone's bags. Then she wakes up to, like, clean the whole house before you leave and then you sleep the whole car ride.


The key for a walkie talkie parent child road trip is that has to just be one on one. It has to be just the parent having and the kid in the in the passenger seat and no other bills. Their siblings. Yeah. It has to just be the kid. Yeah. Ray, what are you doing your best at this week.


It's a good question. I actually think I'm doing my best at one point, trying to make friends.


How do you use the zoom? I did do the zoom with Casey's former co-workers. And really? Well, we like looking for almost three hours. Oh, nice.


Yeah, a full bottle of wine on my end, which is a lot these days, because I'm going to be honest, I have not been drinking during the pandemic like most people, not to like brag because whatever you need to get through. But I've been of the mindset that when you live alone, it's maybe not a good idea to drink every night. Sure.


Because that's how you start self medicating and have a problem. And I've basically been living alone this entire time. So one bottle of wine really knocked me out of my seat.


But I also went on to a very safe outdoor, socially distanced coffees. Oh, nice.


So I like doing my best to like, you know, trying to make friends.


And it's not easy because it's like it's hard to be vulnerable and a little bit like it's challenging making new friends in this moment, because obviously when you're making new friends, you're talking about what you're going through or like what's going on. And I am not, although outwardly to other people that maybe appear that I'm fine or whatever, but like that doesn't mean I don't have hard days.


Like, there's nothing more depressing them looking at apartments in New York, which makes me want to flee.


But it is what it is in L.A. and who I've always been is like kind of the person that comes in and like makes everyone laugh or like makes everyone joke. But like, I'm not in that mood. So these people are getting me at not my best and I'm still being open to being their friend. I'm like letting them see that.


But I think that's so cool. Like, I think there's something kind of amazing about that. I do think that there's something really valuable to making friends in this time.


I mean, some people might call it trauma bonding, but I also think that there is like real validity to, like having people see that side of you, because the great news, as we always know, that there's like funny ray in the like, you will show up now.


And so, you know, get you a girl who can do both is what I say.


You know, I don't know. I think that that's really I think that's really great. I'm proud of you. I think you should be proud of yourself. Yeah.


Actually, I like how to catch up with one of my friends, my best friend from L.A. who left L.A. at the same time that I left, because she was just like, you're not going to be here. I'm not going to be here. And she just kind of talk through everything that I'm going through and where my head's on about this whole thing. And she was like, you know what? Like, you hardly ever have these tough conversations, like vocally with people.


And I feel so much better knowing that you're, like, saying it out loud. Right. And I was like, that's one positive thing.


Yeah. That doesn't help me make decisions. We are making going steps in the right direction.


I think you should be proud of yourself, too, Raymond. And this is just for anyone at home listening. Like if you have a friend like Raymond who's like the fun friend, being funny and being fun almost always comes from, like a certain amount of pain in your life.


Yeah, I don't I don't think that people get that. Yeah, I understand that.


So if you have a friend who's always the funny person or seemed like is always the life of the party, never seems to take anything seriously, it's probably not really because they just really are having a great time all the time. And also when even when you're talking to someone and they're having a hard time taking an issue seriously, it's because it's hard for them and they're deflecting.


And so, you know, so that's just that's just the hot tip about funny people is that there's like a whole iceberg underneath what you're seeing.


And, you know, and and so, like, if you ever get to see any of that, it's actually like I don't know, it's always to me, it's kind of like a privilege when someone shows me any of that, because I'm like, I'm getting to see like this real person. And I feel like really honored that someone trusts me. And, you know, it's a lot like, you know. Yeah. People always say still waters run deep, but I'm always like, well, also wacky clowns run pretty deep as well, for sure.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.


Almost without exception. I feel like that is that holds anyway. Casey, what are you doing your best at this week.


Well, we talked about a little earlier, I've been trying to write and you know, I'm not one of those people that has a lot of trouble writing all the time if I'm writing. Something for someone else, I think that's fairly easy. I love to write jokes, I could do that all the live long day, write jokes for someone else. If I'm writing something that's like fairly personal to me, that's where I get caught up in. It gets a little tough and I will literally do anything else besides, you know, I will.


And, you know, you if you follow any writers on social media, you know, it's always the joke where people are like, well, I have like a manuscript to do. So I'm building a shed in my backyard. So, you know, so I had a personal thing that I was trying to write. And so instead I like installed like a set of drawers in my pantry and like reorganize my pantry.


But I did find when I was doing that, it just led it was like a rabbit hole of pantry organization. And I have, like all these power tools and like rebuilding these shelves in my pantry. But it led to me discovering what I think is such a symbol of what we thought 20-20 was going to be. I brought I brought it to show you guys, even though this is like a real visual podcast today, I'm taking pictures because I'm going to do I'll do a I'll do a visual then.


OK, let me show me what I found in the back of my pantry, a five pound jar of maraschino cherry.


What the fuck did we think you could do with five pounds of maraschino? Like you don't need five pounds of marriage. You know, cherries if you're Coldstone with Amory.


Was it was it was this a pandemic? Bourges when the world was shutting down, it was a pandemic. I think that Matthew got them because he was going to make a pineapple upside down cake, which is my favorite. And if you know if you know a pineapple upside down cake, you put a cherry in the middle of each pineapple ring. But that's like ring. That's like five cherries. There's two. You could just get a jar. There's just one 250 cherries in here.


So that be like fifty pineapple upside down. And you imagine, like, how many Shirley Temple. Well, that's what I was I was like, were we thinking that, oh, we'll have like a party after and then we'll make a bunch of Manhattans and everyone will do that.


I think you were thinking that party, but yeah, it was the housewarming party. Yeah.


I was like, yeah, I just thought that like twenty twenty was going to be so fucking festive that we would have a use for two hundred fifty five.


Maricel, how much is it. Five pounds of marriage. You know, cherries like in pounds. Meanwhile, you know what I did, I did eat five pounds of cinnamon gummy bears during the first lockdown a year ago. Five fucking pounds. I ate an entire five pound bag of cinnamon gummy bears myself.


That is a thing that you could eat. I mean, I guess I was like, I, I got this out of the pantry. It was way in the back. And I was like, should I don't eat this? But it even seems weird to donate because it's like so fast. It's like it's not nutritious. Like who are you, what are you going to donate it? And Matt was like, no, I'm going to eat, I'm going to eat that whole thing.


I'm going to eat those.


Oh, my God. Well, at least make one pineapple upside down.


I mean, I guess I wondered, could I make an entire cherry pineapple upside down cake or would that be disgusting and a disaster? You could make something that you can't make cherry pie is there not with Maraschino Jerry.


Yeah, because they're you could have a serious note that they are they have the texture of, like, baby flesh. Oh, my God.


You can see we can't work in entertainment and talk about baby flash.


I'm just saying, like that is I mean, truly, like, that's isn't that what the whole thing is? We call it what you want. Yes.


Oh, my God. We can't talk about it. I'm just saying. I don't know. I mean, you can have a Sunday social.


You can have like an ice cream social. And I know that is I know I probably thought that. I probably thought, like, we're we'll have a housewarming party with Manhattans. My son will have an ice cream social with all his high school friends. That's what teens do. And yes, it will bring out this five pounds of cherries.


No problem in here.


It is a year later if anyone's out there and you're starting and like a mom and pop ice cream shop, let me know.


Give me a great shout because I have ginger and you can easily drive to Los Angeles. Yeah. To pick them up because I don't I don't know if you can ship those. No, it's a hazardous material.


It'll cost like three hundred dollars and five pounds in glass. Yeah. How long is it before. It's like a good twenty, twenty three.


So my husband has got to have two more years to eat it.


You're fine. I think there's a party I think there's a party in our future. Yeah, sure, sure. Well, guys, that's what we all did our best out this week. Past two weeks, these weeks off, yeah, we missed the Harry and Meghan interview, but like, who gives a fuck? So many people wrote on the Instagram, like all I wanted to hear your take on it. And I'm like, there's like a billion takes on it.


Like our and it's like we love Megan and Harry. Don't be a racist. Like, that's the take.


You know, that's the take and future ref. Google your boyfriend's family. That is true. That that's true.


That guys just do a little do a little Google research.


But to any anyone, it doesn't even have to be. Listen, I'm going to bet it's not going to be the royal family.


I am just going to say something. What I think. I don't know if this is controversial, like the fact that she never Googled them, I live with I'm not trying to blow up my friend's spot, but I live with girls I have lived with close for many years. I'm telling you, the second you match with someone and make a plan on a dating app, like we know where they work, where they went to college, what things are like, it is like the first thing you do.


So it's insane to me that she never looked it up.


Well, maybe she figured that she knew all she needed to know because they are like low public face. Yeah, but yes, but I don't know. I got while call called.


Listen, I get it. I understand the inclination.


And I think that I mean, honestly, here's what I personally, as a writer, this is like me as a writer. What I would have liked to have seen, I would have liked the story to have been more. Yeah, obviously I knew and like going into it. I think there is a certain amount of like being taken by the idea of it. And then I really fell in love with this person and I had no fucking idea it was going to be this horrible and this bad.




Do you know what I mean? Like instead of saying like just like I mean, I just totally didn't because obviously she's very smart, you know, like she's clearly very intelligent person and, you know, and like for me that would be probably closer to the truth. It's like I mean, for me personally, I can't speak for fucking Meghan Markle.


I don't you know, she just starred on my sitcom, by the way, her first job. And she's always been super smart like that. That clip of her at, like ten years old went viral where she like. Yeah, to the company. I'm just but I'm just saying, you know, my number one.


Number one. Is like if you have self-awareness and you share that self-awareness, like you've got me for life. Yeah. And to to say, like, of course I knew that it was the royal family and I was like, you know what? I'm going to date a prince, but then, you know what I mean? But then I fell in like we fell in love and I wanted to spend my life with this person. And I thought I could handle it because I'm strong and I'm intelligent and I'm educated.


And I'm I know how to be in the public sphere and I know how to wear pretty dresses. And I got in there and I was locked up like fuckin Rapunzel. And I was like, this is not tenable. I cannot do this. And like for me, that version. Not only ring's way more true, you know, like in a totally personal way, yeah, believable personal way, but I just feel like also like, by the way, tell your story however you want to tell your story, I guess is the point.


But if it were me I would have liked, I would have tried to have some, like, real self-awareness about the choices that I've made for my own life. Yes. But meanwhile, very excited for them both and for all of the people in L.A. who've now all of a sudden relocated to Montecito to make new friends. Congratulations to you all, and I wish you luck.


Is that too shady? No, I think that's no, we hope you become friends with with Meghan and Harry.


I mean, listen, at the end of the day, she is doing something that we all three would love to be doing. And that's brunch with Oprah, you know?


Well, that's my fucking truth of it. Let me just give out that.


I mean, when the when the legends balls resume, she's at the top of the list. She's on forever and always. And you know who's not currently us? US. We're not. I will be straight. You know, we will be.


And that was just we need I was I was emailing with my old boss, Andy Cohen, about that interview, and we were just talking about how it was just a master class in interviewing and how we need Oprah to do more appointment television.


A hundred percent event television. One hundred and fifty percent. I need more Oprah just period. I think it's coming, too.


Yeah, I hope so. I don't I don't need her to have a daily show. I don't need her to commit to a weekly show. I just need to know that when there's an important issue to be discussed, she's on the case. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm right. Well, speaking of important interviews. That's right. That's right. This is exactly that's the Segway I was looking for.


And I appreciate you jumping right on and handling that one for me. We had the just delight to speak with Cassie's friend and now mine.


I think I hope she's cool. You may know she from Drag Race and Drag Race All Stars. If you haven't caught up, you're still watching. I'm not going to tell you who wins, but it might be the person that we talk to in this interview.


She's got a lot going on and is just a true delight and also knows how to spin on a pole.


And spin a yarn, I'm just making this up. I don't know what the fuck is happening. Anyway, enjoy this. Enjoy this interview with Shackley.


First of all, can I just say I love that like everyone is like doing this, like hand how to make my man. I feel like, you know, we're really serving like this kind of like girl group fantasy because I was feeling a little certain type of way. I was like, OK, am I going to be looking stupid because I don't have a mike stand because I'm not looking, you know, like I have a whole sound studio going on.


But we're all here with our little handheld.


But this is what I do. I prefer this because I'm expressive with my hands. I can't I can't be hemmed in by like a stationary mind. But also, you know, say I'm doing a new TV show with Tina Fey. We're finished shooting it. But it comes out in May and it's called Girls Five Evah. And it's about like a girl group in the 90s.


Try that. That tries to make a comeback in their 40s now. And it's Sarah Barlas and me and Renee Elise Goldsberry from Hamilton. You know, I.


I love that because that said, Paula Pell, it's insane.


And you know what I'm really like? They're like I'm definitely the market for that because I am someone who still to this day really goes hard for girl groups.


I've always loved girl groups. You know, it's just like you name a girl group. I love them.


Destiny's Child, like Donetsk, like Danity Kane. You were like, oh, that they are still in heavy rotation on my gym trip to Europe. That is my jam.


I'm going to have to say Dawn is my fav, OK, just because like Don, she was kind of like always like the slightly awkward one, but I was like time continued Don. As a solo artist, her music is really, really cool. So I appreciate, you know, Don, I appreciate the hustle and someone who's just like I'm here to still stay and do what I want to do, you know, and then yeah, maybe.


Yeah. So, yeah, I'm like them little mix. I'm a mixer. I stand them. So we're a mixer.


How the fuck. Yeah. Yeah.


Well I'm like here I am in my thirties being like I was going to say you're born in nineteen eighty nine. So I'm, I'm like an an Xscape salt and pepper lover. Yes.


Absolutely weak. Oh my God.


All the time. Like I always he comes on, I stop what I'm doing my job. We literally have to all clasp hands and swing back and forth.


I'm also I'm also just like very basic and I just loved the Spice Girls. Like I still I like loved Spice Up Your Life like I was because I was born ten years, exactly ten years before you say.


And so Spice Girls hit like me at a at a point where I was like, I was ready for this.


You were ready for all the girl power. That was actually the first cassette tape that me and my sister bought together, because where were they?


Even though the whole album was maybe four or ninety nine, like five dollars for a cassette tape and we still split it.


Yeah, sure. And oh my God, we would put it in her box, in her room because she had one. I did. And we were just jams in the Spice Girls. Yeah.


I want to be so free. My sister had a big boombox and I didn't either. Right. So you have to go. I always. Yes. And she had the two cassette thing and so you could make mix tapes on my sister's like boomboxes. And I did not I just had a I just had like the AM FM radio saying that I thought was cool, but but that was not very cool.


Well, you grew up in Chicago, right? Like outside of Chicago.


Yeah, just outside like like an hour southwest of the city. I'm in this little town called Plainfield.


I was born in Oak Park. Oh, shut up. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, we've already started this podcast by so many questions. And so we introduce Shea to In Case People Aren't Rubiales drag race watchers. You also should see my face right now because I'm like just in case, if anyone doesn't know who's Shakuri as they can walk the fuck out of this podcast right now just in case.


Well, you know what? If anyone doesn't know who she actually is, I actually envy you because you have like a wonderful new thing to discover. You can go back and get the whole history of Shakila on Rupal Drag Race. Shaku is one of the contestants on Rupal Drag Race and actually well spoiler alert is the winner of Season five Rubiales Drag Race All Stars.


That just happened this year.


Pupu I lost my damn mind Shaku so happy. Well but this was that because guys if you're not drag race watchers. And by the way, just full disclosure, I'm not an every season watcher like do they call him seasons or do they call them like like I.


Right. Oh, my God. That's really interesting because I didn't watch them and see them now. I think, you know, we're more of like a season.


But like the I like I will I will dip in and out of seasons. But season nine of Drag Race, you were like, let's just be honest, the fucking star. And then the upset of the century of drag race is that you did not win and everyone was up at arms.


And so this is like I mean, because we talk about like set backs and pivots and stuff on this show in particular. Can we talk about that, like what that. Felt like because you had to have thought everybody watching Season nine knew you were winning clearly, and then and then no, they said surprise, surprise.


And I was honestly like now in hindsight, like four years later, it was the best lesson that I could have ever received, because I've always, like my parents, always had us be of the mindset of like, you know, you just concentrate. You work really hard for things and you'll get, you know. And I knew at that point I was like I worked really hard. I dedicated so much of myself to this. And I had excelled in the competition.


So I was like, this is my time to, like, claim my prize and like my moment.


And then when that did not happen, I was like, OK, well, I need to look at this as being a bigger lesson. What is it that I need to take from this? And really all it did was.


A give me like a 100 percent ego death just shattered my ego to a million pieces, which is, you know, and it's like I was like entertainers like, you know, we have very big egos, like, you know, we have especially as drag queens, you know, they're inflated. And so I really had to go to, like, such a humbling place and like really concentrate and focus on why it is that I got into drag, why it is that I love to drag, you know, because all of a sudden it was this business and it's all these people have these opinions and, you know, it kind of affects the way that other people treat you.


And so you kind of had to like I had to, like, really kind of step back and ground myself. But it taught me to believe in myself even that much more like having, like people witnessed me fail in such a dramatic and poetic way, allowed me to really, like, actually gain even more confidence and be like, OK, that was actually my worst nightmare and I'm still living.


Yes, but I like what you just said about like you had to. OK, so your ego is I've had I've had that moment as a performer where you're like shattered and you have to return to the to the why me?


Like, why do I do this and what do I love about this.


And so when that happened and you're like. This is the worst. What was the why for you when you thought about, like the origin of his performance and what it meant to you?


The wife for me was. Because. Performance entertainment drag have always been. The language that I use to communicate and express myself most authentically and most powerfully like performing drag art, that's how I that's how I communicate with people. And that why was that? I drag my my my artists like my voice, and without it, I feel like I'm not even. Talking to people, I feel like I'm not existing, you know, like I need to create something in order to feel like I'm really communicating who I truly am on the inside.


It's, you know. Right. That's what I was going to ask. Like, when you when you say that's like how I talk to people, is that like those are the moments when you feel like you are able to be.


The realist, yeah, really like the most raw version of the most authentic me I could possibly be, and it's insane that it takes a whole bunch of crazy wigs in here and production.


But that's all that's that's still all me. That's still all the imagination. That's all part of it is because I feel like, you know, we have all these societal constructs of gender and all this bullshit that we have to deal with and drag from me as transcending all that bullshit. And it's it's coming across on the other side and showing people, you know, that us as these sentient beings are so much more than just the clothes that are on our backs or that makeup that's on our face.


You know, like we can for sure. We can tell so many beautiful stories. And I just love going out there and using drag to just tell stories all the time, you know?


And we love I love watching them and we really do. I love watching them in that way. It is like one of my favorite things forever. Like it is the best. It just changed my life, like embrace it because, you know, growing up is my femininity was something that people used against me as something that was like bad. But it was hard for me to accept those types of critiques when I had examples like my mom and my aunts and my sisters for all these really strong badass women and me being like Diana Ross, you know, you know.


So it's just, yeah, I'm like I'm having a hard time, like, really processing that. You guys are telling me that these qualities are bad. It sucks when growing up people are telling you, like your feminine qualities are unacceptable and or bad, when all the examples that I have in my life of femininity are all just like really impeccable, strong, beautiful, smart women. Yes, yes. And then Drag allowed me to be like, I'm going to like kind of like put this on and I'm really going to embrace this femininity and step out in it and actually feel empowered by it.


And then, like, when I did that, I was all like, God, fuck the patriarchy to some bullshit.


Like, you know what's interesting?


I'm strongly identifying with what you're saying. I feel like a lot of times in my life, people have taken things that like I identify as really like feminine traits and been like, well, that's not important or why are you doing that? That's frivolous or it's silly or it's not you or, you know, just you just feel like you can't do anything correctly.


That's why I love, like a fab queens like this women doing drag because I was like, it's that same thing where where people try and tell you that, like, you know, overt femininity is frivolous. And it's silly because so many times people consider it to be something that's done strictly for the male gaze. And you're like, no, I really just put on this top because I bought this top. I shot this top.


I like this top not because I was trying to get who the fuck ever Frank over there to pay attention.


Like, who gives a fuck about for. I didn't even notice Frank, you know.


And so, like, no one knows who Frank, you know, like only you you're the one, Frank.


Oh, but it's like that's why I love, like a fab queens, because they're all like, yes, I can use my femininity and put on this armor to show people, like femininity is really bad. And it's powerful, too, like masculinity and like aggression. Those aren't the only ways to exhibit strength. Like, guys come on like this. It's like so basic. Sometimes it's like I feel like I talk in circles because like the amount of misogyny, that's just kind of kind of ingrained and just like all the fabric of society.


And I just feel like I just love how drag allows us to just like celebrate and and amplify femininity and showcase all the beautiful, beautiful components that exist within.


You know, you're such a scholar of all of this stuff. It's one of the reasons I love, love, love talking to you because like it's like you're putting on a hell of a show all of the time. It's super entertaining. But then if anyone gets the chance to sit down and talk to you about, like, the brass tacks of all of this stuff and you're so generous with all, you know, and just really smart stuff that I think a lot of people don't maybe think about or aren't thinking about yet, are like just on the cusp of thinking about, like, ideas that maybe aren't super familiar to just everyone.


So I wanted to ask if we can talk about pronouns, because the way that you use your pronouns is a little interesting. Hmm. Yeah. So I did a fire as non binary, so I oftentimes default to date and pronouns, gender neutral pronouns in drag. I prefer she her out of drag.


You can use yeah, they them and honestly, you see her, too, because I don't know what it is about vascular plants. I mean, it's dual. I mean, I would assume that a lot of. Do a lot of your friends use Jihae? Because, like, I would assume it's like that's that helps her to especially like with other triathletes, we're always she her with each other, you know.


Yeah. Sometimes with even someone is not in drag and someone uses like him pronouns.


You can kind of feel that girl's like, yeah, like I was like where I want to see him.


But and that's the thing because I drag really helped me to kind of understand my gender non binary identity because, you know, I'm doing this act, I'm doing these shows five nights a week and I'm like putting on the wig in the hair and the makeup, you know, feeling my feminine fantasy, you know, taking it off after the show.


But the person on the inside didn't change, you know, what was on the outside change.


But I was just so like I was like, I feel like I am equal parts, feminine and masculine at the same time that yin and yang kind of balance. And I'm like, I don't feel like I belong in any binary category.


And so that helped me to really understand and actually start reissa because I didn't even have the language for it then to research and start to find other people that I identified as gender non binary.


And I was like, oh, I understand that. I can.


I was like, I feel that shey, my 12 year old is a non binary and they really have taught me just so much about all of this. And like it's been like, oh, no, I'm going to go, I'm sorry, it's just been a week, but I love them so fucking much. And Mark, who is my partner, who I had these kids with, um, and I. Talked about it and like almost immediately I was like, I was the one I'm I was the one the one like who's been in drag clubs since I was a kid who like, you know, whatever.


And I was like, I can't I don't get it. Like, I don't get it. Kind of like I just I don't get it.


And Mark was like, I do like that's Birdwing Birdie's not it's not this or that is like that. They exist like in this other space. And like as soon as he said that to me, I was like, oh yeah, you're right.


I do get it. Like I do get it. It's just hard from the outset, like before. I think it's you know, I had to spend a long time talking to my mom on the phone about, you know what I mean?


And I and I think there is this natural I feel like for moms who want to protect your child, because a lot of times it's not even so like you that you're worried about. It's the other people, because that is kind of what I saw from, like my mom, like in my coming out process. And like, it's funny because my dad was the one that was for my mom, like, hey, Marilyn, it is what it is Gerin.


It's Gerin, you know, regardless, at the end of the day, that's still that's still our baby.


You know, I'm the youngest.


I'm the baby and I'm. I could just see it just even I could just see how much you love them, and I feel like that in and of itself, they're already so, so, so lucky.


Like, what a lucky, lucky kid.


And I'm just glad that they now get to exist in a world in which these conversations are happening, where there's becoming more and more representation so they can see themselves reflected in other people and stories that exist and television and media, because we were talking about cycles, America's Next Top Model. I was saying that for me, my first representation that I saw of like a black non binary person was Miss J. And yeah, Ray. And how they so seamlessly introduced feminine pronouns.


And it was just kind of like, OK, well, that's Miss J. And I never thought about how it's not that hard to grasp when you just kind of present it in a way and allow people to be like, oh, this is the norm. That's misshaped. This is what we call her. And for me, like that little that little thing helped me understand kind of pronouns in a much different way.


And that was when I was in my little itty bitty town in Plainfield, Illinois, back in the early 2000s.


You know what? That is truly a really fucking amazing point and something that I haven't thought about until this moment. But Casey and I talk a lot about the importance of, like, just this sort of subversiveness of storytelling in pop culture and media, like the importance of drag race is cannot be underscored. Right. But that is something just even Miss J. Is the thing that, like, I never really even clicked into that. But you're exactly right.


Like the not making it. A big point, plot point, right, just like this is what it says, OK, we're like and now we and Mr. is going to mentor you on your wall.


No OK, no explanation needed.


Just no explanation, really.


Exactly. And so I love that. I mean, I love that we have you in our Gaist now to storytelling. And I'm very excited that you finally have that fucking crown.


But what do you feel like is sort of the next step for you in terms of the public sphere and storytelling and music and drag?


And where do you what are you what are you excited about? All of those things? It's actually like why I'm out in L.A. right now, because we're working on. I'm doing like a writing camp. We're going deep into a writing camp next week to work on two EPS, like one that's like very disco we vocals dance vibe. And then the second one that's like Chicago Deep House, 90s rap five like Big Frankie Knuckles, Boots Girl.


And so I'm really excited to really because like, you know, been just like working hard, like kind of like gathering like a whole like team of people camp to, like, put together this project. So I'm really excited to get into the music. And I actually just got cast in my first feature. So I'm going to be in a movie.


I'm so excited. I was just like I was so excited.


The new script today, I'm excited that there's all these amazing opportunities and I'm actually living my dreams, you know, shake weight.


That is first of all, I'm floored. This is the best news I've ever heard. I'm so excited. If you need any help, any tips, I'm here for you. I'm not even getting beat on sets for twenty two years. I can tell you whatever you need.


Honestly, that wouldn't mean so much like I've been a fan since white chicks, you know, like I just, you know, like the deep cuts.


Oh, I got. Where are you filming in L.A.?


Actually filming in Savannah, Georgia. Oh yeah. Tax taxes. Yeah.


Wow. That's going to be interesting. I like I love it. I love it.


So, so busy will give you any acting tips that you need. Shey. Yeah. I think you have something that you could share tips with busy and that is that she is a budding pole dancer I am sure which I know you have a little experience, pole dancing.


I mean that performance, it was the it was the like premiere episode of All Stars. And you did your own. Yeah, I did my song Cleide, which co-wrote with my really good friend Guess and was like, I think this needs a pole dance routine.


You felt a hop was in and had you had you gotten on the pole before?


One time at a strip club in Montreal after a show with Kimche, Shangela and Bianca Del Rio and Vallina.


It was wild girl.


But, you know, that was just one little casual little spin on the pole in the strip club, you know?


But I think that that first little taste was what made me want to, like, go back and get some more for real.


OK, and did you take classes? Did you have a teacher like a real like one of the girls that like. Yeah, I had an instructor. His name's Keith. Hi, Amy. Oh, my God.


He's so tiny. But like, well, they're all tiny and so strong. Yeah.


But he really like to be in the shape. It was like really pushing me.


And we only train for two and a half weeks before I went to All Stars.


Oh my gosh. OK, I'm obsessed with it. I love it so much. And I'm now writing a movie about Paul Dancing. And Shay, you just wrote yourself into my body.


Just so you know, just so you know, you're now in the fucking mirror.


I am so ready on Amazon shopping for the highest Stryver platforms I could find.


Have you kept up like the training at all, or are you just like is it just like fun? Sometimes it's just like fun.


Sometimes I actually do want to get back in the trip because I was like going to do some more training when we were about to start doing live shows. But that's, you know, who's doing that anymore, not happen. But like now that, you know, vaccines are starting to. Roll out like I could probably get in the class of Keith again, you know, I think it's because it was a great workout. I like and I loved just seeing myself get, like, stronger and be able to do like you, just random things.


So I want to do that. And I want to get back in the tumbling because I used to do that when I was younger. And I really want to get to a point where I can do a really cute back handspring in heels.


Why? I mean, yes, I guess I guess, you know, I could never I'm not a I did tumbling when I was in school. I was a cheerleader. It was required. You had to do it back in spring.


Yes. It's I went to a little troubling gym with a friend, like literally right before the Banzet back, and I was able to do a back handspring by the end of it. But let me tell you my back the next day.


Oh, my God. I could, like, not stand up straight.


Like, I do feel like that's a little bit like that's like a zero to 60 moment where you're like just like casually go to a tumbling gym and then you're like, I'm back Handspring, you know, like I everything felt like jello afterwards.


Like all my limbs, like my arms and everything, like hold hands and all that.


But it was like I think you should I do want you to continue the pole.


I mean, because because you said so busy. Absolutely.


Also, I'm now I'm not even kidding you like I am for sure. One hundred percent writing a part for you in this film that I'm working on.


I just like think that the world is so fascinating and I have such respect for, like the performers that do it and clubs like the sex workers that are like out there fucking doing it.


And also for like the competitors and the athletes and the aerialists that, like, get these wild ideas and like you like your performance was fucking art mostly dry.


I inspired by because when I was like first first started off and I wasn't getting a lot of bookings and the drag clubs, I would basically be the token drag queen and a lot of burlesque and like pole dancing shows. So like those were all the girls that I was hanging out with, you know, and so like I was just like, yeah, because we were doing a fundraiser for a girl, for a girlfriend. She was actually the first person that booked me.


Her name is Jeez Louise. They call it the Honey Badger of Burlesque.


She's everything. And we actually just did a pilot together.


She is honestly one of the fiercest entertainers. But she booked a show that had some of the most sickening pole dancers with like the tallest platforms and the fattest asses. And just it was I was like literally at that fundraiser, like, I need some more of this in my life. So let me get in class with these girls and see what's up.


I love it. Where do you live normally? Are you in Chicago? So Chicago still live in the lesbian neighborhood? Because I really like being around the lesbians more than the gays, but just my people.


I mean, honestly, any time you put me in the space, I will always gravitate towards the women.


That's always been me. I'm like, hey, but that's that part of you.


I'm like, that's actually where I just feel safer so that, you know, that is what it is. I just naturally feel me too safer around women. So girls, we're like, it's all about antiquing and brunch.


You know, I man, that's all I ever wanted. I mean, mostly antiquing. I could like take or leave brunch, to be honest. I'm sorry.


I honestly, I probably would have said that before the pandemic, but actually now I realized the importance of just like getting fucked up on a Sunday afternoon with my friends, because there's this place like around the corner from us. It's called Fireside.


And it's it's an old big like kind of like painted lady Victorian style house that they, like, rehabbed into this like very family style restaurant. And the whole back, even though it's like enclosed, it's so this beautiful, like patio that's open all year around. And she's like, you're still like inside this old house with all these, like, vines and everything growing up. And that place is really like a five minute walk from my house to the White House to the McCluskey's.


You know who the creators of Matrix. Their studio is right next to it. Fireside is right there. And it's just like, I don't know, there's some and they have a two hundred ingredient Bloody Mary bar. So they'll just give you a glass of ice and vodka and you can just go and make your own Bloody Mary. And it's like super cheap super mom. I love that place.


I'm like my way of giving her free advertising right now on this podcast, telling everyone to go to fireside.


As soon as I get my vaccine, I'm coming back to. Bloody Mary with you. I was just going to say, I just saw this thing that Joe Biden was like, every American will be every American will be vaccinated by May 1st. So guys like May 25th, we're going to be there. What else is that? The vice. That sounds so good to me. It is. I agree with you. Is it been hard for you?


You seem. I feel like we have a lot in common. I know you're a witch. We're which is the power of three will set us free. Do you miss. Is that what you miss most in this past year is just like that community and like seeing people and seeing friends. And has it been hard for you?


It's been extremely hard because one thing I realize, too, is that, like. In touring and traveling and doing shows, you kind of build this global community in this global family and you start to expect to see certain people on your roots of tours in different cities and you develop these really close relationships and you just don't get to you know, there's friends who I haven't seen in so long. I mean, it's been exactly like a year since we went under lockdown, but exactly on time.


A lot can happen in the year, as we've all seen. Yeah. Oh, yeah.


It's been crazy. Were you mostly in Chicago? Yeah, it's cold. And there's not there wasn't really much to do. I mean, I gardens during the summer, I grew a really big tomato plant that was like seven feet tall, like I'm making my own bloody marijuana.


Well, I'm, I'm still working on my cultivating like I know I because my grandmother, she could really put her hands in the earth and just get magic to grow out. And I'm really trying to get that. And I'm good with houseplants. I'm not sure what the tea was with the soil, but the tomatoes did not taste, though.


It was like this big, beautiful, beautiful. Everyone was like people. Our neighbors would look over the fence and they're like, damn that tomato plant. And I was like, oh my God, my pride, joy, like, I'm so excited. Taste the tomato noka.


He heard sting, huh? Yeah. I don't know what goes into my not I actually do not have that ability. I'm, I'm a plant killer.


Yeah. I mean we have lots of succulents, you know, shape. I would totally watch a gardening show with you. Oh that's a good idea.


I should probably yeah. Definitely like get into that this summer and just like oh all because I wanted to get gardening boxes because, you know, we have kind of like a back little patio.


I only had like one little plant here, but I want to get some standing plants here because I really want to grow sweet potatoes, because I heard from my friend Jeez Louise that she gets some sweet potatoes and they came out good and she said she just had little plants. So I'm going to try it.


Yeah, they're pretty easy, just like you can even grow them in a bag. I heard any fool can grow a sweet potato.


I heard oh, I heard on the street that sweet potatoes came on by fours.


I don't I mean, I'm going to be honest. I might be that fool. Gazi, we got shy. We could try.


I'm not the best either. But I am trying. But I would watch show.


Yeah I would do, I would watch you garden.


No no question I would be amusing show also busy.


I love your scrunchie by the way. It really is. Give it like I it's just like. Yeah. Your scrunchie is giving. Thank you. Yes.


This isn't even my, my giant one. I don't know where my giant one went. The dog's probably you know I have like one that is like so Gigantor really bring them back.


Can we bring. Yeah I think because I've seen you know, a couple I think where they're coming up and I'm just so like I feel like we should really Ann-Britt, because like I mean, I envy both of my sisters and all of their scrunches when I was younger. And I just really wish that I had enough hair to throw in a scrunchie. I would literally pretend.


In the mirror with invisible hair and a scrunchie, just trying to feel the fantasy.


Truly, I mean, I do I do love a scrunchie moment. It is like one of my sometimes I'm like, this is my Britney Spears look, you know, like free Britney, like just like Masti on top of my head.


But sometimes I do like a low scrunches Qinghong like I'm like a scrunchy Besch I'm not even getting.


She said let me serve you the classy scrunches shinomiya. I swear to God I do, I do. Look Shane that's like I part my hair in the middle, I pull it all back and I twist my hair in a bun and then I put a scrunchie around and I'm just like you know what this is me like yeah that's that's who I am.


Yeah. I'm like give you a Chanel suit and headshot on a bench and I will buy a house from you in a second.


Yeah, I really am you. Oh. What's so funny is that we have like our good friend Chelsea is moving to New York and I have been acting as Chelsea's realtor and I'm like I am like a realtor at heart, like I'm dying to be a realtor. Like, yes, I want that. Like the suit I want like a power bag. I want to like, do the deal.


I don't have a life who is also a witch, who is also a woman who does drag. So, you know, it just makes me bring her up.


I feel like maybe you guys should collab on a scrunchie line, huh.


Just saying and I'm just saying, and these are all pivots we can take, I mean, you know, so far I'm super excited about the acting pivot and I am excited about, like, wow, it's funny you have going on like acting was that was theater is where it all started, you know, because it was just like I was a kid with a lot of energy and personality.


And my parents were like, if you don't get the fuck out of this house, you know, so they were like, let's do something, let's do some plays, you know?


And that was kind of that was like where my my love are like, oh, my goodness. Telling stories like taking on characters because I'm like, I'm an empath and I'm like, oh wow. You can actually really affect people. And and and. Really grasp their attention by telling these stories like I can, that that was like the first time they started to feel powerful, like I could command someone's attention, you know, in a in a play or a musical.


And I was like, wow, that's really cool. I want to do that more.


Did you think that you would like to act like you wanted to do actual shows? Like, did you ever have Broadway dreams or what was your. Yeah. When you were a kid? Yeah, I did.


I was just like two faggoty. So they're just like, was it really anything ever. I just like get absolutely big and then like you're like I'm like outside of like what?


Like Angel and Ren's. Right. Like, I even remember we did. I mean, I'm not even kidding. Like that's exactly that's like we did.


Oh my gosh. George C. Wolf's The Wild Party, the musical. And there's two black gay twin brothers who are incestuous.


And when I tell you every faggot was clawing each other's eyes out for those two roles, we're like, we're gonna play brothers.


We're going to fuck each other up.


But, you know, obviously, there's only two roles to go around. So I didn't get that one either. I was like, surely I was gay enough for that.


But no, no.


Yeah, but I did I did work on the shop on that one. And it was fun.


Right, because you also do you did where you like. That was your major in college.


I did a bar so that I could do costuming and performance. So sometimes I would design shows, you know, and do like the tech side. And then sometimes, you know, I would be one of the talent.


And now and that was cool because it gave me I was able to understand both sides of it, you know, the being on stage and everything that went into it.


So it both sides really helped inform me of just like how to be, I guess, more intuitive at my job, because theatre is one of those things.


It's like kind of got to you never know. You kind of got to be able to do so many different things and be able to adapt. And so just kind of like knowing so many different ins and outs of it helped me in so many ways.


Well, it is it's interesting because, you know, no matter what, you're sort of like, you know, as a as a queer person or as like a blonde white person, like when you're when you limit yourself to just one lane of entertainment, you're you're really you really are just limiting yourself because, like.


Even the you know, like we all have people put us in, like whatever boxes they want us to be, you know what I'm saying? So, like, you have to be able to be like, oh, I see your box and then I'm going to come over here and I'm going do this other thing for a minute and like you can catch up to. So what I'm putting out into the world. Right.


And that's like that's actually very similar to like the way that you phrases so similar to me of the way that I feel like Rupal tells us to deal with our inner saboteurs. Where you listen to it, you're like, yes, I hear you. But I'm going to go over here. I'm going to do this thing. And it's very that when people try and limit you and put you in your box, you're like, I see you. I hear what you're saying.


Yeah, yeah. I get that, you know, I'm not blind, but I see something else for myself. You may not see it yet. I'm just saying go over here and do it.


And then hopefully eventually you're going to turn around and be like, oh, OK, now I see it. Now I see it. Yeah.


And I have to see that like the common thread with everyone that I know who's who's found like real sort of success and like been able to really resonate in entertainment are the people who don't lose that thread of the thing that makes them on hireable.


Do you know what I mean, and like for me as this, like, blonde versus like sort of. Pretty presenting human, my shit was always like too weird, too loud, too like other to be what Hollywood wanted me to, like, be able to fit into.


And so I was like, OK, that sucks. I'll try to be that other thing, but I can't, you know. And then eventually you like you go over and you do your other things and then eventually you figure you find your path like that's the that's the key. And so drag it sounds to me like drag ended up being the path for you to now look at this moment like full circle where you're going to be one of the stars of a film, you know what I mean?


Like, I just feel like this is this whole this whole circuitous journey that's like taking you right back, because I feel like one thing that is really good in entertainment now.


And I feel like what people really do want to see it would be these things, you know, where actors would be in the closet and try and present in a certain way so that they could appeal to the public.


I feel like now we have the luxury a lot of times of really being able to say this is authentically who I am. And like, you can take it or you can leave it, you know, and like, I feel like people are looking for those others, you know, because they're wanting to expand and make their stories more complex and enrich them more with these these these characters. And it's nice that now we're starting to think a little bit more outside of the box because like I like what you were saying triggered this memory of me.


You know, if you being you know, that's pretty presenting blonde white girl. When I worked at this costume shop after college, we would be doing these shows because we do doing for like regional theaters. And I'd have to I was a stylist and have to pull things.


And the owner would be like, why didn't you put the ingenue in white ingenues wear white? And I was like, why do why do I ingenues wear white?


And he's like, because they do. And you're like, what is this arbitrary rule that you just made up about? OK, the honor of doing the show, she just wears well, I guess, you know, because innocence, whatever, whatever.


But I was like I virginal, never heard patriarchy.


I was like, you know, and that was like I was like, OK, well now I know that that's code. And I need to, like, abide by the code.


But yeah, it's like these really weird boxes of things that people set up in, like, well, she wasn't wearing white, you know, it's just like that's what it feels like in the way that they try to place everybody and these little cookie cutter boxes, it's like, nah, that's that's that's why people are actors way. Right range, right? It's also but it's also like I hope that the message starts to come across and I think it has like I really do think culturally it's making a difference that you can embrace who you are, your unique personhood and present in any way that you want to present, and that you will be able to do the thing that you love and like find success at it.


And there will be an audience, there is an audience for it, because if you are this person, guess what? There's a bunch of fuckin other youths out there in the world. Absolutely right.


And the culture is catching up and the culture will makerspace like always in the past, it has been like, well, how will people react to this? How people react to this? Well, now we know every time that we take a chance and make a space for something that we've never made a space for before. It's always received, you know, it's it's always received because there are a million other users out there, not exactly you, but people that are dying, not exactly you, but people who like to see themselves reflected in part by pieces of you, like I think about baby who is out there getting to watch Drag Race and seeing like just in the same way Miss J.


Made an impact on you in the same way. You know, I just feel like it's really and now it's really fucking cool.


I'm so glad you're in this world and doing you're doing your thing and fucking arriving and say, I want to say that I love an epiphany.


And you are saying that in your pivot, when you didn't win that season of Drag Race, that everybody expected you to win, that you tried to get a lesson from it. And I think that I also learned an important lesson from that. And I remember it and I remember thinking that the lesson for me is that sometimes even when you're the best, you don't win.




And that it doesn't mean that you're not the best. It doesn't mean that you're not the best that you can be. And it doesn't mean that you're not the best out of everybody. But sometimes even when you're at the top of your game and sometimes when you're better than anybody else, sometimes on that day you just don't win.


It's not your day. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, you know, I even think about how many times Beyonce has lost things where she was literally you're all like, who else is there?


You know?


And you just have to remember that you're like, yeah, sometimes it's just not it's not meant for you. And and that is OK. And and this is one thing that and she's not even she didn't even come up in entertainment. But Kimche, you're such a levelheaded person. I love my. And for Leo too.


So LEVEL-HEADED I love when we were first like little baby queens you know. And girls are really competitive for gigs. Kim was always the girl that was just like, you can never be mad at a gig that somebody else got because it wasn't for you, you know, and she just really did put it simply like that.


And I always just remember because I'm like, there will always be gigs, there always be opportunities. And yes, there will be things that you want. And you're looking at somebody else like, oh, gosh, why didn't I get that? And they're like, the reason why you did it is because it wasn't for you, baby, because, like, you got to keep on working so that you can be, like, ready and poised to receive what is really meant for you.


And when it does happen, you'll be like, oh. That's why I did the work and that's why I, like, waited and kept manifesting this because, like, now it's here and I'm ready and I can appreciate it.


Yes. And when the thing is for you, it is for you if that's it. And like and then it like all becomes clear. I've had that same exact epiphany. I spent a lot of years of my early career wondering why I wasn't Rachel McAdams and The Notebook, but I did audition for that.


But I mean, the moment you said that, I was all like, oh, wait a second. I was like, I see the casting director. And I was like, I say it. I said I was like, why?


Why am I not Katie Heigl in twenty seven dresses, you know what I mean?


Like, whatever. I had those moments like those thoughts like fuck I was I was doing white chicks in Vancouver so I couldn't audition for this other movie, you know what I mean. Like I just was like really plagued by it.


And the moment that I realized I had some real fucking heartbreaks and then I had some real triumphs after and I was like, oh, I get it now.


Like, I see the whole thing. And my triumph was someone else's real fucking heartbreak. Yeah. You know, but I was just like, oh, this is the way this thing was meant for me.


That other thing was not meant for me. I'm never having that career. That's not my career. I have my own. Yeah. And your career is going to be one that I'm very excited to continue to watch builds and builds and builds.


I'm excited to get going places, baby. I mean beyond.


Well, thank you so much for having me. This was such a blast. You're so cute.


I love you so much. You seriously can you see give Shammi information. I will. And I'm serious. Reach out whenever you need anything and I'm like want to keep in touch and I will help you in any way. And Savannah, Georgia is real fucking weird and you know it's haunted. So be put all your witchery on and protect yourself white like I have this. OK, so I have it which I have like it's amazing. And it's this big wide brands like, you know, kind of like that Erykah Badu big like it has this patch and it says, the art of knowing your best self and like that's my end.


Like it has this little hook you can put, like, feathers in it. I put a porcupine quill in mine, a special little porcupine quill. But I have girl, I like that.


Like when you see me walking with my little Amethyst's dangling around my neck wearing that hat, you better watch out, girl, because you're like she's coming over with a piece of savannah is not prepared.


You'll see if you're a witch like and if you feel because I like as soon as you get there you're like, oh God.


Because what am I? Because I love New Orleans. I have family down there. We go down there a lot, you know. And so one of my good friends was just like, oh, girl. Well, if you know the vibes of New Orleans, you'll feel it in the soil of Savannah. And I was like, OK, all right, I'm ready.


It's true. It's like, yeah, definitely. Um, I'm excited for all of it.


OK, all right. Well, we adore you. We're so everybody we're all so rooting for you, you know, since season nine. But like continue to root. Yeah. And so happy for the winner. Thank you. Happy for the next chapter and the pivot's. And thank you for talking with us. And we're going to talk to you soon. My absolute pleasure. Thank you both so much. Yeah. Bye.


That was delightful, maybe I should write the introductions for people, maybe that would be a way that things could go more smoothly for this podcast.


I mean, I watch I, I like when you improv the introductions because they're so insane and like, well, like, sometimes you're, like, just busy.


Remember who this is the interview this week because you're really searching for that fucking name. No, I think it's funny. It's funny to me.


And like, it's a real tight. So if it's funny to you, it may be funny to someone else is what you're trying to say. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, listen, she is the greatest.


I mean the best and the nicest. Nicest and I'm not kidding. I'm going to write that fucking movie and I'm going to write right on into that. Yeah. Pole dancing movie. I do not. Yeah. There is no reason why I wouldn't.


Yesterday when I was in my last couple of days when I was in just another just a vibe I put on. Suspended and gaffar on repeat. First, the Kate Bush version and then a cover by Ra Ra riot that came out in 2008. And guys, I just really love that song. I just like but you know that you're like, you know, you're like really in it. If you put a song on repeat and you listen to it for like an entire two days straight.


Oh yeah.


That's like where you're like, whoof, we're going to have to make that list, you know what I mean.


Yeah. Um. Well, I'm working, I'm trying, yeah, like working toward it, I had a crazy, like Sims thing happened yesterday.


What happened? So you guys mean it's really fucking wild? Yeah. So, you know. Depression, what a bitch when she shows up and so it's just a hard day and I was just like not feeling great and I was. Lying down on my heating pad and Mark came in and was like, what what do you want for dinner? Like we could get whatever you want, you know, like, would that make you feel better or whatever it was like?


I don't care. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe something.


And and then I was like, oh, Houston's. I really miss Houston's. You know, I love Houston. Yes.


I mean, who doesn't? Well, some people don't even know from Houston's. You know, Sarabeth didn't even I had never even had it. But that's where she's from, I think. Well, I know, but I'm here. So I'm saying there may be lots of people listening are like, what are you fucking talking about? Houston's is a chain restaurant. There was one where I grew up. Well, there were two where I grew up in Phoenix and Scottsdale.


And it was like the place that we would go for fancy special occasions.


Like, yeah, I was like, ah, go to like birthdays, graduations, Father's Day, Mother's Day, whatever. Grandparent's in town. Like it was Houston's always.


And so I have like such such like an affinity for it and comfort like it brings me such comfort.


And if you know Houston's or the Helstone group because years ago when they that will you know why they did that. Right. They used to they used to all be Houston's right around the country. And then years ago when the FDA passed, the thing that, like, over a certain number of restaurants means that you're a chain restaurant. You have to put your, like, fat and calorie information on your menu. Houston's was like, no, no, no, no, no, we are not doing that.


So they split them up and like named them different things, which is generally such a chef's kiss genius.


Yep. Because you never have to know how much fat in calories or whatever is in the spinach dip or the ribs or my personal favorite, the veggie burger, which I have a feeling is probably like the most fattening and caloric thing on the menu, you know what I mean.


Yeah, yeah.


But they get to like still exist and they just have different names. So in New York City, for example, it is a Helstone, it's not a Houston's, but they don't offer.


We've talked this is like the second time we've talked about this, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Because I talked about the French fries. Yeah. So they don't they don't offer they don't offer delivery. They only have takeout.


And so we'd have to go pick it up. But we were like was like let's just do it like it's fine, whatever.


Like OK, fine. So we order, I get my I'm going to get my veggie burger. I'm so fucking excited and he's like.


You know, I was wearing sweats, he's, you know, I think I think we both should go so that in case there's not parking, one person can jump out and get and get the food and the other person can just like circle or whatever. And I was like, I guess I have to get up. I'm like a Sarabeth home can.


Yeah. Can she go with you.


And he's like, I mean I think it needs but it's a little you know, for you it's kind of like, OK, sure. So I got up and got dressed and we went down to get the car and and he's like, well do you want to jump out and get the food or do you want to drive? And I was like, oh, you know, I love driving and that I have been really depressed. And so sometimes driving really makes me feel good.


So maybe I should drive. But I also really want to go inside of a Houstons and just see it and like feel the vibe of a Houston's, you know. Yeah. So but you know what? No, I want to drive and listen to suspend it and gaffar and he's like, oh boy.


So we got, I got in the car, we drove there.


Listen to suspend it. A gaffe obviously and a.


Then we pulled up and I was like, oh, my God, is that a parking spot, like literally right in front? So I pulled in and he was like I was like, do you want to just run it? Why don't you run in? I know it'll mean a lot to you since we have this parking spot. You can just run in and I'll stay here.


And I was like, OK. And then he was like, wait, it is actually a spot we can park here. I'm like, oh, cool. And he's like, I want to come in to and see Houston's. I'm just saying there are a lot of points, there are a lot of points at which different decisions could be made in order for this simulation thing to not have happened.


Yes, I am telling you, all of these like very specific details of like how it came to be that I realized this is a simulation. A lot of stars aligned. A lot of things had to line up. So. So we go in and they hand us, we go up to the host stand and they hand us the food, and I was like, let's just make sure they have everything because I'm not going them around.


And Mark looks and he's like, oh, they forgot the drinks. So he was like, excuse me, the drinks. And she's like, oh, shoot, let me go check on those. And so she walked away and we were just standing up there by the host. And, you know, restaurants are I don't know what capacity they're operating at indoors, but I will say two things. Number one, I was incredibly soothed to be in that dim light and the dark wood of a Houston.


Yes. And I was also, like, uncomfortable and like counting the minutes in my head of, like, how long can I be in here before I'm, like, putting myself at risk of breathing in because all these people are not wearing masks and they're just like chewing and talking and eating. Right. And then and but, you know, so a little nervous. And then I don't even seemingly out of nowhere, this group of people comes.


Because they didn't come from the entrance where we came in, they came in from a different way and I don't know how, and they come in and it's like a woman with like a very old small pug that's wearing like a full outfit that says, like, I am a service animal and like has like a lot of different badges on it. And and then like two kids that looked like they were twins, like around four ish maybe.


And then another woman and then a third woman who was very tall and had what in the dim light of Houston's I thought initially was a service pony horse.


I thought like this. I thought, this is the moment I see a service pony in person. It was not it was a standard poodle that was giving me like a very intense.


Pony like that's how big this area was.


Yeah, but locals are huge, but also like weirdly like not that Kirrily, I don't even I don't know how to describe it. It looked like a horse had blow out. Also wearing why I think I mistook it for a pony, also wearing a full service ID outfit, but that like sort of was draped over like you would see on a donkey or a miniature horse. Yeah. So that's why I assumed the horse. But then they just stood where they were so close to us and I was like, we didn't even talk about we didn't look at each other.


We didn't talk about it. I just like backed up away and like went back into the corner and turned around where they had like a very empty little cocktail table. You know, no one's no one's having their happy hours there anymore. And and I just was standing at the cocktail table and like, right next to the wall and looking at this, like, big. Piece of art that was hanging on the wall. Also, if you've been to Houston's, you know, they all do have different artwork in the Houston's, but it's all like sort of similar a vibe of it.


Not it's a vibe. It's the the artwork in Houston's and it's the vibe. But I was just like looking at this picture, just sort of like looking at it.


And then the girl comes with the drinks and I was like the fucking what the fuck, what the fuck marks like what is happening.


What is happening. I took a picture of the painting. I'm going to show it to you right now. This is the painting at Houston's, OK? Can you guys see it? Yeah. OK, I'm going to put this on my Instagram because one hour earlier, when I was lying in bed depressed and not knowing what to order and whatever, I was just scrolling through Instagram. I was just watching Instagram stories like sort of peripherally, like just had them on.


They were just running. You know how you know that sometimes. I don't know. You guys do. Yes. Kelly, Oxford had posted this, oh, wow, I had seen this an hour before.


So for now, for those of you who can't see the same fucking cast, it's a it's a is it a photograph?


It's a photograph. It's a photograph from another account, like it's a post from another account that Kelly had posted of an interior like just like just like the niceties over here. Yeah. Also like not really Kelly's vibe. I just say in terms of like the things that Kelly posts on her Instagram stories. Right. Necessarily. And it's it's from another account. It's like a cool interior of what looks like a very fancy apartment. I would think somewhere in Europe is what I'm going to say.


Yeah. And it's in the back. It's a photograph of background, man. But in the background is the exact piece of art that is hanging, that is hanging in the Houstons that I stood there staring at and then was like, what is happening in my brain right now? Something is clicking, what is it? And then when I realized it and I went back to her Instagram and thankfully that story was still up. Oh, my gosh.


Because it was like it was like twenty hours like she had posted at the night before, you know, weird, you know, saying like is that a super famous piece of art? It's by Chuck Close that is so wild.


Well, you know, you love a good Sim's Feary. Time to love a good Sim's theory I. Do you feel like it's all a little bit too much, but OK, you know what I mean? What the fuck is the simulation? What happened? Have we righted ourselves? Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, we've done enough yet to make it OK, because I'm ready for some some new. Version, yeah, we need we need whoever is playing this video game.


To get the new ticket, the new computer and the new box of Sims, I think we got I think that we I mean, I think I mean, personally, I do think, like, I have leveled up, you know what I mean? Like, in my game playing. And I'm I'm happy for that. But I'm just like I, I just I want to know more sometimes I feel like I'm very close to getting into the Matrix, you know what I mean?


Especially if I especially if I meditate. But like that Chuck close thing, that's like a real fuckin weird thing.


So I'm trying to see on here, guys, if you can even buy that that thing that that piece of art that was in both of those places, I wait here.


It says, wait, I got it. I'm on artsy. You know what, artsy it is, it's like artsy, but it's really low, they're expensive, their existence not fucking around. He seems like a guy you'd know of is it's Philip Glass. It's the composer. Yeah, right. I think so, yeah. It's Philip Glass.


Well, I think what we now know is that I'm going to have to buy this.


Yes. I going to have to contact one of these galleries and get this painting. There's the other thing.


I want to get a girl that I'm friends with on well in real life, but also fall on Instagram. When I was scrolling yesterday, her mom had sent a bunch of old t shirts to her that she had saved from her childhood.


And she had I want to get this for Briona, find it on eBay or like Etsy. She had a Titanic T-shirt with like Leo and Kate from the movie Titanic.


It's so funny and weird. And I want to get one for birds. Oh, my gosh. To this day, my husband and I crack up laughing because back then, whenever anything was popular, they would sell things on TV that, you know, that teenagers would want or whatever that kids would want. And they were selling a jewel of the sea necklace on TV. And there was like a knockoff.


And there was there was a commercial where a girl was just like, I want to say she was just like sitting on a bench or whatever or like sitting at school with that stupid necklace on and like her friend, like, rides her bike up or something and goes, juv.


See, I hey, you know, I to this we've never been able to find the commercial online, but we both know it existed because we both know. But to this day, like every time I put on a necklace in my life, my husband always says, see, I hate you.


That is a good line.


If anyone ever saw that commercial or you ever recorded it on a VHS tape or you're the actress who was in the commercial. Sure. That's yeah. If you were in it or if you made that commercial, please know that it was the best media that's ever been made.


Well, and guys, I want to say this. If you have your own Sims story that you would like to share with us, I think Casey has our email. Yes.


Busy doing her best that Gmail. Busy doing her best Gmail dot com. Shoot us an email. We want to hear from you.


There's an email. I want to hear your stories, guys. I want to hear your theories. I want to hear what you think is happening. One time you thought there was a glitch in The Matrix went, yeah, yes. A glitch in The Matrix. If you've been inside The Matrix, I want to hear your experience. I need to know it all. Please email us with your crazy shit. In the meantime, while I'm going to go, I'm off now.


I'm researching how I'm going to buy this painting.


And because obviously that's the lesson that I'm taking from us is that, like, I need to buy that painting and I'm going to go I'm going back on the pole today, guys.


Go on ahead. Sighting. What's your read? It's time.


It's time. I'm not going to do anything crazy. I think is is the move. I think I'm not going to do any crazy moves today. I'm going to just sort of take it easy, maybe just some spins. Just have a fun time on that pool. OK, so anyway, guys, until next week, we love you and thanks for hanging in with us.


We'll hang in for you.


Why you say bye.