From. If you don't know this, I've talked about it a lot. Everybody in Los Angeles has stomach problems.

Everyone's got like IBS or everyone's like gluten intolerant. I don't know what it is.

It's like we're so fucking healthy here. And yet everyone's like, you're shitting all the time or camshaft.

Oh, my God, I. Hi, everybody. We are doing our best and busy Philipps This is busy, Phillips is doing her best.

I'm joined per year by KC St. Onge.

Hello, my partner in crime, a woman that always is doing her best. Wow.

You are you are you are 100 percent always doing your best 100 percent of the time. I believe that to be true about you. I appreciate.

Oh, our guest co-host nodding in agreement. It's none other than Mr. Tom.

Tom, my. Tell me, lady.

Hello. Always doing your best, Tony.

I mean, I'm. I'm trying. I'm doing my best.

It may not be someone else's best, but I'm trying and failing loud, like strong. You do it wrong.

You know what I always say about doing your best when you see that doing your best is the thing that we should all strive for. But if doing your best means that you're a dick to other people, that's not doing your best. That's just an excuse for being a dick to other people. And then you have to then you have to re-evaluate yourself, you know what I mean? That's my feeling.

Which, by the way, you never asked Tom. I'm not saying Tom will want. No, no, no.

Because maybe it's made me think that I do. I have a voice over audition that's probably due today. And I probably forgot to do it for someone who's a dick. And I'm like, I can't believe this. Dick decided they need a cartoon.

And like, what do what would I be working like? Am I selling my soul to audition for this because I have openly. Said how difficult this person is and I've been doing are you doing the new Louis C.K. cartoon in Dallas? Is that what you're done?

You I mean, I could you know, could you imagine? I actually I actually that might be the only way he comes back.

I kind of can imagine him having a fucking we. Did he have a cartoon, you know, even kidding you?

That was little Louie. That was which I loved.

I've been watching it with my son over quarantine life with Louie. Yeah, Louie.

And that is that I'm of it's hilarious because we love Louie Anderson from Basket's. We watch a show that was just Christine Baskets. It's the best television character in recent history. That show that was either.

Oh my God, you have to watch it just for Louie Anderson as Christine Baskets, the most sympathetic, amazing character. I just love Louie Anderson so much. But yeah, but I loved the Life with Louie cartoon, and so I've been watching it with my son anyway.

Anyway, but wait, I just want to give a refresher to the listeners at home.

I'm sure, you know, he always hates when I remind people of things, but I like to remind you, I just feel like it's rude to the guests because I'm like, Tom needs no refresher introduction here, but literally so busy.

Remember that, like, people would be like I'm the biggest fan of busy tonight. And you'd be like, OK, what is your favorite episode? And they'd be like, Oh, I've never watched it.

And that is true. They'd be like, I'm just busy tonight. Canceled. I loved it so much. Oh, really? Which was your favorite episode? I don't know. I just felt like the White Chicks dance off on your Instagram. People are so dumb.

So anyway, so it just continued as a refresher reminder, Tom Lenk is the genius who would come on busy tonight. And also like, by the way, we didn't think of it. Tom was already doing this. He just would come on our show and do it for us as well. He would do length's looks for less, looks for less where he would dress up. Our writers and people from our show, like knock off Oscar looks using like stuff from the trash or trash or whatever.

So he would dress up Sentara and like rubber gloves to like look like, I don't know who who did you dressed into your Azura remember.

Oh yeah.

As Billy Porter the weird in the tuxedo dress. Yes. She got dressed up as a few things guys.

I didn't do a Visual Learners Guide for the podcast last week because I just didn't feel like it was super necessary.

But this week I will do another one and included in it I will I will post again some of our favorite looks for laughs from the Busy Tonight program that Tommy came on and did for us. But, you know, Tom and I met also you guys, you know that Tom's responsible for my entire fucking second act of my career.

Tom. Well, Tom, if I were you, honestly, I'm not even getting you. You can Casey can attest to this.

I'm so fucking sick of paying people commission for shit that I'm like, I'm doing this all myself.

Fuck you. Yeah, but but if anyone should take a fucking commission on anything, it's a you on my goddamn career.

OK, ok, so I'll take it.

I'm not going to pay you but I but I do. I am giving you credit. I am giving.

What's the credit that I should like. Yeah. Hey here's this thing called Instagram story. OK guys, here's the back.

Here's the back story we have. We met through mutual friend Jenny Molen eggs, Jenny Mullen bags.

She got my Jenny Biggs or Jenny Mullen, I think Jenny Mullen because I think.

Oh, wife of Mrs. Jason. I think for like.

Or is it just like I think professionally she's she's just her original name. And we look her original name.

And I always knew her as Jenny Mullen and Tietz because that's her her Jenny. And that used to be that used to be her Instagram handle.

Her igy handles still Jenny Molik. OK, there we go. And she changed it from Jenny and Tits to Jenny Mullen at a certain point because also Tietz passed away. Ah yeah. Yeah. Like a dog.

But Jenny and I went to high school together. We were like sort of like frenemies for years.

We were a little bit like Lauren and. It was either on. On the Hills, nobut from Laguna Beach in high school, it was Lauren and who is the other one? Oh my God. Kristen.

Kristen, it was Maureen and Kristen. They were like the frenemies. They were like friends. But then also not really kind of like wanted to do the same thing in life. And they kind of are still doing the same thing in life. And that's like me and Jenny Macklin, only older.

And never on a reality show yet, but we love each other, but we do love each other deeply and have a very deep soul connection.

And also I would just say this to anyone out there listening who maybe has someone like that in your life, takes a lot of unexpected twists. And like, I think you always have to be open to the fact that sometimes those people can be a real connection to your past and where you came from and can like. You can like and it can inspire like a new depth of relationship, do you know what I mean? Yes. Look, you don't have to just like you don't have to just, like, immediately kick people out of your life ever, unless they're abusive.

But that wasn't our case.

Anyway, this is a sidebar we don't need to get into. The point being Jenny and I have known each other since high school. You guys went to college together at UCLA.

Yeah. Yeah. And have been friends since then. Yes. And then Jenny wrote some books that were really funny and then sold her book. I like you just the way I am. Into a series, but then it was like a WebSphere, I was confused, I don't remember what it was. It got sold to ABC Digital as a Web series when they were trying to be like like early days before streaming was really like a thing, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it was before like Paramount TV and Disney, all that stuff.

And like this before cable got reverse. Engineer was five years ago.

Oh, it's not that long ago. I was playing your husband. They are funny.

And she was playing basically like a version, a heightened version of herself. And she asked me to play her sister, Sam, and then she asked you to be Sam's husband, who was based on a combination of different, I think, people that either Sam dated or that Jenny, I can't remember.

So we did this show and we had and it was like the kind of thing where we did I didn't know at least like exactly where it was going to live or how it was going to be seen or whatever.

And and I was in a place of like a career like like a crossroads in my career. And I had shot Cougar Town was over. I had shot vice principals. I was just like not really into acting anymore. Jenny asked me to do this thing.

My agents and my manager at the time were like, why are you doing like a Web series that you're not really even barely in?

And I was like, because I don't know, I just want to do things with people that I like. And I feel like she and I have had such a really wild journey as friends and I just want to show up for her in this way. So whatever. You're not taking commission on this.

And we had the best time.

We were just hanging out most one two weeks or some two weeks maybe.

Yeah, I vivid memories of them saying, OK, and then this shot is of you eating busy eating me out.

And I was like, OK, OK, I can do this. And so I had to put nervous. There was no prep for you and I didn't know that that was what was happening.

It wasn't in the script and I had to be like, busy.

Do I have your permission to invade your body space? Do I have your permission to go very nervous for your permission to and like, oh, I like I'm going to close my eyes and hold my breath. So, like, in case, you know, I don't I don't know how these things work. So, you know, so it was have you never had sex with a girl?

No, I don't know a lot of games, but I know a lot.

Listen, I live with Gold and Gold Star, okay? Yeah.

A gold star. Gay. I love it. I love that. I'm like I'm telling Tom the term is Gold Star guy. Well, I didn't even know there was a term, but I but also I have a lot of gay friends who either sort of like felt like they couldn't come out or whatever. I don't know what your upbringing situation was.

And a lot of times people are like, I couldn't come out. I had have a girlfriend. I had to have sex with her. It was the worst.

My ex my ex, who he he was he went to medical school, was married to his wife, who was also in medical school with him. And then finally he was like, I'm gay, I'm gay. But oh, gosh, it's hard to be hard to be that lady. I don't know.

I think it's easier. I actually think I think in a weird way, like if your marriage breaks up and I don't know I don't know what I'm. Yeah, it might be you guys don't don't don't at me. I don't know. So do I.

But I got to put my head up there, didn't see anything, didn't I don't have any memories of what it was like in there.

I just have the memory of, of, of doing the thing that I was like you guys, it wasn't this is literally for like an ABC Web series. It wasn't like there was nothing like I was more intimate with Josh Jackson on. Yeah.

It was just me putting my head under your dress and under my dress and like moving his head back into a matter of time when you just mimed, like, what you did, like you were like you mimed that you put your head under busies dress and then just moved your head around and it looked like you were eating corn on the cob.

Know, that's what it's like. Me guys, let's be real straight men are approaching it as well. This is the deal most. I mean, I have not had a woman go down on me, but I have had men and they do sometimes some of them do think it's just a corn corn cob down there and they just don't have enough.

And thus they're just waiting for it like a little typewriter ding noise to go.

And they it turns out the Bugs Bunny cartoon, what is eating the corn on the cob is what men, you know, at the end of my generation, how to eat.

Out a woman know what I do remember, though, I do remember I was I was it was really hot that day. Oh yeah. Oh God. That was part of it.

I was like, oh, God, am I like, sweaty and like my vagina smell bad. Like, do I have, like, not my vagina but like my crotch. Like you smell like what I said.

I was like, I'm not going, I'm not going.

I know because it was real hot that day and we had been like working all day. Yeah.

Like, I don't even have fucking fresh pennies to throw on this, but I figure if we were going to do a make out scene, we'd both brush our teeth and have mints and things. And that's exactly right. There's an element of that. The other brush.

Oh my God, if you two don't invent the persimmon kumagai like a little guys, I mean, I'm literally inventing a Listerine strip for your pussy right now as we speak, as we speak.

And you know what it's made of. It's got it's got CBD in it.

Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's you and Freshens.

You people are always trying to sell things for inside your vagina. And as we know, the vagina is a self-cleaning oven cleaning oven.

Have like years of like, you know, conditioning to to be made to feel bad about the way our vagina smells like naturally our vaginas smell fine and they smell normal. But outside your vagina, like outside there, there's a lot of sweat glands thicken. You know, they get to smell funky and Jim like sometimes. So yeah. So you need maybe like a Listerine strip for outside.

This is the moment the. The Pussy Listerine strip wasn't something I wanted to just capture it on camera, by the way, by the way, this might be going too far. How sexual are we allowed to be on your show?

We're going to say whatever we like, although some people will say do right that they listen to it like with their kids in the car or the room. And I'm always like, OK, well, I said, I think we are a lot and this is on you.

So for the C section to add to that, you know, gay sex jerko warning, I one time had it was maybe the first time I experienced the equivalent of. I don't know.

I know of you know of what you're getting, you know, but you're a gentleman and it's a gay thing, though, like, yeah, you went to the salad bar. I was in your salad. Someone was touching my salad. OK, OK, I can say that.

Why is it your salad? No, just makes me. I don't like that. Yeah, that's a good question. We need another we need them, we need another you the like. Like, oh yeah. Like the Peach Pit, your name, go into the Peach Pit, go into the pit stop. Going to visit Brenda at the Peach Pit. I don't know.

That's where you go talking to Nat at the beach. Back up. Oh, no.

Oh, my God, we have changed sex in America in this episode. So so someone was talking about.

Talk about.

Yeah, talking to now and without my knowing, I all of a sudden I felt a rush of, like, you know, who of like like I'm like I'm like a very cool sensation, minty freshness.

And it felt great. And I looked over to the bedside table. There was an open bag of mystery.

So he put the strip on the peach and then went to talk to Nat with the drink.

And I I didn't I didn't know it was happening, but it was wonderful. I don't know if that's good.

Right.

And I didn't know what you know, how like there's I don't like the dirty Sanchez, the rusty trombone.

Like, I was trying to come up with, like, what's the name of that thing I experienced, like the Peppermint Patty or the.

Yeah, that's perfect. That's the Peppermint Patty. I don't know.

Anyway, so that's. Why did I just share them, but you can because where it is, I make it in part. No, no, no, we're going to we're going to keep it in. But like, because we're because we're inventing new things right now. Yes. We're talking about how you you deserve commission on my entire career.

So why are you so, so, so, so, so I was in a place if you read my book, if you haven't read my book, feel free to get my book.

Grab it. Grab it. I'm you guys. I am. Like under ten thousand copies away from breaking even on my advance. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Which apparently.

Yes. And then I would start getting royalties. And if you don't know anything about the book world, let me tell you something. I don't think it's a lot, but I don't think I'll be making I don't think I'm going to be making a ton of money on this. It's no it's no untamed, you know. Yeah, it's not. I didn't write.

Michelle Obama's book is nice. It's a nice feeling to earn out on a book. It doesn't happen a lot. That's right. And I my book agent was like, this is this is great. And I said. OK, well, we're not there yet. But this is why I'm saying to you, listener at home, maybe you want to get my book now, maybe ten thousand of you want to get it. Maybe I do. We have ten thousand listeners I'm not even getting.

Yeah, OK.

Buy it for your friends anyway. It feels so already. It feels so dated my book. Do you know what I mean. Like it already feels like that to you in a million fucking years ago.

But to all your book fans who are like I love your book, it's my favorite. And then you're like, what's your favorite part in there? Like, I don't know. I never read it.

Yeah, well, that's that's also probably accurate. So anyway, I was like a real crossroads in my career at this moment.

The Jenny Melun WebSphere is meeting Tom, having him pretend to eat a corn on the cob on my under my dress moment and.

And I just kind of was like I just was so I didn't care anymore about acting and I was so sad about it and like like I wanted to, but at the same time, like, it just was just so hard for me and. And I didn't want to leave Los Angeles. My kids really needed me here, I couldn't take another job out of the city. And at that time, five years ago, everything that I was being offered was like in Vancouver or Atlanta or Toronto or somewhere.

And so I kept like turning things down, even things that I just, like, wanted to audition for were in different places. I just, like, couldn't. Wrap my head around leaving these two little kids to go work, even if I would be coming home on weekends or whatever, I just couldn't anyway.

So it was fucking around with Snapchat because Kelly Oxford had got gotten me into a few of the filters are fun and the filters were fine.

But I also felt super old doing snap. So Snapchat seemed so weird. And I was like, isn't this just for dick pics?

And I was like trying to do and I was like and I was also like trying to do it and then like but then like and posting on Instagram and and I was like, this is too much for me. I'm old, I can't do this. So we're in a car filming.

A scene for the Web series, and Tom and I were just like laughing the whole fucking day and he was like, hey, Instagram launched this thing like yesterday. It's called Instagram stories. Are you going to do them? I was like, yeah, I saw that. No, I'm not gonna fucking do it. I can't even do like Snapchat. And I can't I can't do any of this, like, I'm barely holding my life together. And Tom goes, Yeah, but like, you already have all these followers on Instagram.

Just do you Instagram stories like fuck Snapchat just like delete that and just focus on Instagram story is it's like basically the same thing I think. And I was like, well it's not it doesn't have the thing with the filters or whatever. And he was like, I don't know, whatever. If I were you I would just do Instagram stories. So we did that day in the car to remember we did like my first Instagram stories and we and I posted them.

And then that was like August of twenty sixteen, right? Yeah, yeah, and I started doing them in the car with you that day because and you were like just so like you should just do this, you should do this. You have so many followers and like I literally I mean so many. I had like fifty thousand followers or something on Instagram but it felt like, you know, it felt like a lot and it is a lot.

And and so that's how that's the origin of starting to do Instagram stories. Is Tom being like. Just like don't do Sanja, just do Instagram stories, it just launched, it's brand new and you knew you had a vision for me.

I'm a little bit psychotic, I will say. Yes. Yeah, you are.

You are a witch.

I'm a I'm a I'm a witch of mediocre powers, you know, but it basically changed my entire life to achieve them.

How is that how that came about? Because you were basically hosting a show on your story?

Yes. Yes. And like I there was a New York Times article that my now friend Marissa Meltzer shout out to. Martha wrote.

She has a really interesting new article, too, by the way, guys, about like the connection between Yohanan and the spiritual and like yoga world and like health, health, world and wellness and wellness. Thank you. Marissa Meltzer interviewed me for The New Yorker. Like like she was like your you are the person like every new platform that emerges has, like, the person that sort of sets.

What it is and what it should be used for, and like you did that for Instagram stories, which was all Tom Linc's idea, and it will all tell me, how did you two know each other before the then?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you did OK. If I could take credit for your friendship, but I don't know, actually, Paul F. Tompkins can take credit for our friendship.

I forget that we knew each other through through a thrilling adventure. Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. We we've done that show together all the time.

Very unprofessional. Oh, we yeah. We met before, Jack.

I didn't get to know you was it was like we like we re met on Jenny's thing, but we, I just remember being backstage and we were all at the same colorectal doctor in the dressing room. Thrilling adventure at Largo. Yeah.

Thrilling Adventure Hour. If you don't know this, I've talked about it a lot. Everybody in Los Angeles has stomach problems and everyone's got like IBS or everyone's like gluten intolerant.

I don't know what it is.

This place poisons your gut. It's like we're so fucking healthy here. And yet everyone's like, you're shitting all the time or shit. There you go.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Also the alad. Can we talk about I don't know what I just had a road trip up to San Francisco this past week. My just sort of tiptoeing into I mean it was by myself all the time, but yeah, my allergies went away as soon as I like passed Santa Barbara. So I don't know. I don't know what it is.

I have a crazy New York allergy, which I didn't know was a fucking thing. And I was like, well, I really thought that I fucking had escaped at least one thing.

But yeah, now it's terrible. Tom, you have a viral video right now that's like almost crossing a million views or probably has already.

Am I dying or am I am I dying or is it other jeez.

Which I've been thinking to myself because I have terrible allergies. The other day my husband counted and I sneezed over 80 times. OK, that's insane.

80 times this checked out, it's wild.

Like I couldn't even stop sneezing long enough to take a pill or to squirt the stuff up my nose.

And then I also have like I've been trying to go out for a little power walks in the neighborhood and I just have, like, the kind of allergies where it just feels like stinging barbs in your skin. Do you have that? My mind's in it. I'm just walking around the house like this. Oh, yes, inside of my throat. Yes, yes. In the top. The roof of my mouth really itches to which you look like kind of that's trying to itch the roof of your mouth like this.

It's the tongue. You're like, yeah, yeah. Not great. Not great.

I love you. Call it viral. It's like to me I'm like, oh, it's just I'm barely hanging on on the Internet and trying to stay relevant. I'm but I watched it. I know. I know. But come on. It's a grandma. Why why can't I monetize that. That's what I want to know.

I mean, like, you know, you're up there with little mouse X. Well, we by the way, I can't believe we skipped over when we were talking about Listerine strips in your butt.

We didn't talk about my ex's video for Montoro that like I was watching something that Jeremy O'Hara's posted from Fox News of these people like going off about it is wild.

People are really shocked by him giving people. Dan, it's like. But what? The best way to not be offended is like, don't don't watch it if it's not your jam, it's the same way like straight pros in high school, like why why do straight people have such good gaydar even before you're out of the closet and they're just like they know they have to pick on you because there's something and it's like the same thing with these straight Republican people, just like I know I have to hate that and I don't know why.

Yeah, but you're just so like, why are you so in tune to pop culture that you even know about this person? You know, like why are you why do you even know about it? It's because you're probably closeted. There we go. I don't know.

I mean, I'm such a fan of Lohman's X not. That's also one of cricket's favorites. There you go. There. I love some lol not Zak's.

I guess I'm like those people who said, look, I love your show, love it. Can't name an episode. That's my favorite. I didn't watch the whole. I didn't watch it. I just, I just did it. I just watched the clips of him sliding down the pole that everyone knows this song is such a banger.

Also as someone who has recently taken to the pole, I what we what there was like a bit written in to girls. Like, I decided I didn't want a stunt double. I wanted to like jaylo it and do it myself. I trained, I trained for a week. I fell in love with the pole.

I feel the same way about me. I was telling CSO, Can I call you see as a yes, you totally can.

Does anyone tell you the CSO that I had an audition for a man who tosses pizza in Topher Grace's new show and he has a new show, I guess.

Who cares? You're probably friends with him. It's fine. He was on your show. I was there for that. Fair enough. OK, but but they're like, can you toss pizza at home? Like, I once lied and said I knew how to ski in order to book a commercial when I was working in Germany doing Grease does musical. And I went and took skiing lessons on the highest mountain in Germany that Zugspitze from a silver medalist, German skier, learn how to ski in one day.

Obviously, I can learn how to toss a pizza for an audition. So I bought some dough and I learned how to toss a pizza. I did not book it. I didn't get it. But and I fell in love with making pizza and I made several deep dish pizzas out of that dough. So, you know, new hobbies can come from a panic research for a new thing. You're just a new hobby, have you?

And yeah, I've continued my training a bit. I did crack. Some ribs on the pole, no, we're not going. Yeah, now that's not going too far. Yeah, but I'm writing a movie.

That I'm tentatively just calling the 40 year old pole dancer and oh, and and now I like I have all there are so many people that I have are they are like literally just like writing parts for one of them is Nicole Byer because of the love for the pole.

She's got a love for the pole. She's got a pole in her backyard. She posts her pole progress. I love that look.

I mean, as we've established, I'm willing to learn and I can I'm a good I'm a quick learner. So if you need one sad middle aged male pole dancer, I'm here.

I think that that's amazing. And I love this idea and this pitch. And I'm going to like, see if I can work it into the script. Also, though, I'm like hopeful that little N X will consider a role in my film.

Oh, OK. Well, there you go. You know what I mean. Now that now that hee hee hee hee pole danced for Satan has what's the thing.

I read the thing that said that Nike is upset that the shoes contain a drop of blood. But then it said that the shoes are a collaboration between Leona's and something else that wasn't Nike.

So, yeah, they they took Nike shoes and they like customized like another company, customized Nike shoes.

So they're not by Nike. So Nike is like this has nothing to do with us. But, you know, they're so they're so smart because, like, they only made six hundred sixty six pair or something.

And so, you know, it's just like and like to truth be told, it's good for Nike, it's good for little Nasacort, it's good for this company.

It's a low money investment for everyone. And everyone's like tearing their hair out, freaking out. And just little mouse is you know, he's so smart, he's so smart.

And entertainers like, oh, I'm going to just specifically troll all of all of this conservative, horrible, awful people. Yeah.

He made the apology video that, like, linked to the music video, you know, but like what's so wild to me is that these fucking people don't get that.

They're just being told. Yeah, it's so weird. It's so weird. Especially for like. A bunch of people who are really good at trolling, yeah, to not recognize it, sometimes the things that are hardest to see are the things that you most deeply relate to. Yeah.

And then, you know, and then it's interesting to to you know, I just saw it and I was like, what a badass video. And it's so great in the songs. So catchy. And then you read like the the note that he wrote to himself.

To me. And did you read that Tom Monteiro's has his given name? And, you know, he he wrote a little note saying, like, I you know, we never thought that we'd come out. But this is like, you know, call me by your name is the you know, is named in the song. And so this might help other queer kids come out. You know, it's really touching. And then you read like people are doing like a real scholarly analysis of like this is a kid that was brought up, like being told he was going to go to hell because he was gay.

And so, like, he, you know, put on some platform heels and wrote a stripper pole down to hell and literally gave the devil a lap dance, then killed him and took all his power away, you know?

So I'm like, wow, that's a lot deeper than I analyzed it. But wow, wow.

It is it is a queer studies thesis. I'm going to grad school and I'm just going to base it on this also. Just think I'm so glad there is no a call me by your name starring an actual queer person. Yes. I just wish that movie I just talked, I was like you doing from last night and I was like, did you ever end up seeing that movie? Because I like love, you know, I loved it so much when it came out and she was like, no.

And I was like, you know what? You can't watch it now.

It's like going to be ruined because Armie Hammer, like, you're not going to be able you're not going to be able to watch it now. I disagree. I took a hard stand. Didn't like it. No, I didn't watch it. I was like, no, no, not not in. You know what? If you can't make your movie with an actual person because they're not famous enough, then make a smaller movie, make it like, I just can't.

But this is this is the catch. Twenty two of Hollywood, which is like you can't get the parts until you're famous enough, but you can't get famous enough unless you can get the part right. And so and so that is always been why, you know, we have to have more representation all across the board. Like if you were to do a film that's to gay men at the center of the film, you have to have a sizable part for Jennifer Garner.

Do you know what I mean?

To get the thing right? This is all this is a I'm serious. This is a big Hollywood break right here.

Like this is a total Hollywood break, like one hundred percent. I'm with you. I'm like want to obviously give. LGBTQ, I.A and trans actors and performers like they should be the ones getting these parts that playing these roles, however, the financiers are going to be like, yeah, and how am I going to guarantee them I'm getting my money back?

Like, who's the leading man who's out and gay who's big enough to carry that Armie Hammer role in Call Me By Your Name, which is an injustice because I believe that Armie Hammer shouldn't have been that big because I believe Armie Hammer was crammed down our throats.

Yeah, like who's over at the big agency deciding, like, this unknown person is going to be the lead of this movie? Well, that's the thing.

It's like these big the whole industry is sort of like run in just it's like a weird classism.

Yeah.

And about that, like, oh, I was really sold a bill of goods that said, like, if you keep doing good work and audition, you can make it in book a lead part.

And the reality is now no, you if you're not at the top five places, you're not you'll you'll be at this level.

And how do you know if you're going to be considered rights?

And like as I said, my auditions into the black hole abyss of during quarantine, I'm like, there's an offer out on all of these parts, so I'm about it. But an artist just keeps going. But I know, as I say, like, there are no there are no gay actors famous enough in the age range of Colin Firth and Stanley Tucci because they didn't never, ever get Rupert Everett Everett. And that Clinton could have played the part in coming by your name, by your name, coming back, that would be great, actually, but we just haven't.

Yeah, I don't know. Also, who who are those movies being made for? Gay men are not watching the new Stanley Tucci Colin Firth situation. We're not watching that. That's being made for four straight women.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and whether you actually Kate Winslet or Sharon, anyone but Kate Winslet, my generation, and here's what I maintain, OK, that if I if Quere had been more. In the zeitgeist, I would have identified as queer as a teenager and a young adult and a person, I would have probably come out like I'm a queer person. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think about that a lot, but then would you now would you come out as queer now?

Well, I mean, not to be, but like, you know, I'm forty one, like whatever, I just like literally who cares that person as a queer person.

And I even have a hard time saying that word because it was. Yeah. You know, such a deal.

But do you consider queer or gay like do you consider yourself gay because and and queer or just.

Well I feel like the queer community is sort of now a larger term for the LGBTQ rights. So I can say I'm a member of the community. Am I queer?

I mean, yes, I guess because what was I doing wearing women's dresses and putting on makeup, making them out of trash like that's that I would say is queer and drag adjacent. How much of it has to do with. The physical sex that you're having and how much of being queer has more to do with. The way you think and approach life, I'm just thinking out loud, so please. I love it. I love it.

I love to think out loud, but this is even like the non binary thing that we had because nobody is non binary by them pronouns and. And I even I mean, I've just learned a lot in the last cycle, so I think I think my hat is off for you for saying.

Another time I maybe would have identified as this, but right now I'm not going to because sometimes it seems like people are come out as I'm queer and you're like, no, but it seems like you're living your life as just a basically hetero hetero normative heteronormativity, but also try to try to tap into our club.

And it's like you're trying to tap in with all of the hardship that comes with it. And so I think you're like, yeah, I'm I'm married to a man. I live this type of lifestyle. And it's it seems very hetero normative. At the same time. I'm like, oh, but you're a theater person. Oh, you're you're queer.

And and I would say that when I was when I was like a teenager and a young adult, I certainly was open to dating people just based on who they were, not necessarily their sex, their. Sex, not their gender. Did I talk about this last week on the podcast for the sex ed? Yeah, yeah. This kid in sex ed Birdie's in sixth grade and sex ed, they were saying gender for male and female instead of sex and Berriwillock actually also.

Oh, my God. Can you like sex ed? I sixth grade. Sometimes I think back to like what did what did uncircumcised boys in my sixth grade class think when they saw the book and the the penis looked not like theirs. Did they think like that's and we were not taught that there was anything other than that so.

Right. I can't even imagine is do they? OK, here's what I want to know. Do they cover non heterosexual sex or is it? No, we just have to cover the stuff that makes babies because we're we're just showing how human life is. No, they do.

They yeah, they do. And they. Yeah, and they cover can send those like a lot about consent.

I watched one of the consent cartoons with Berdy, but like in certain states, it's your I'm assuming that it's still like sex that is still frozen in time. Oh, for sure.

I actually think. I think that some places still don't like don't even do it. I was going to say if they even have it.

Yeah, if they even have a law like hell, health and health, they might just like go through, like you said, like reproductive systems.

And like I think it's more like health and hygiene and just how to avoid creating life. Like, yeah.

You know, it's like, oh my God, I know it's fine.

I mean it is super fascinating. Yeah. But that's also I do think part of the reason why I'm like in my high school years and whatever, I could have seen myself as like be identifying as that now. Now. No, you're right. I'm like I live ahead or normative life. Plus I have a kid who's non binary and gay and I'm not like going to hone in on their shit, you know what I mean? That's true. Let them do their own fucking person.

And like, I can just be the mom. Yeah. This podcast goes deep. It's deep. We were just talking about eating corncobs and. Oh, oh my God.

You guys, I have a terrible thing to tell you what to do. Recording this record is dead.

Oh, my God. I don't know when. I don't know how. Shit.

While I'm really sorry about that, KC, I'll send you whatever the fuck I have. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, this is a real fucking travesty here.

That's OK. Do you want do you want to record a voice memo on your phone. Yeah I'll just do that.

OK, I lost my garage band recording my my computer crashed.

Oh no. Yeah. We're just having things out of just having drums. Drummer Lama ding dong.

All right. Well I'm deeply, deeply sorry about this turn of events, but it's not your fault. It's not. Not my fault. We don't know. I don't know whose fault it is, but the recorder is dead. We should get to what we're doing our best at this. What are we having so much fun talking to Tom Lenk about? I love Tom.

I love you so much. You are just one of my favorite people. How tell us about your podcast. Let's plug your iPod.

Oh, it's called Undressing Bridgton with Felicia Day and Tom Lank. And it's just us talking about Bridgton. And we're about to finish the eighth and final episode. But we're going to keep we're going to read the book and we have some special guests that we're going to talk to them. Who? Oh, and and then we're going to do maybe maybe we're going to undress other shows while we wait for Birgersson season to. Have you watched Bridgton? Yes.

Love Bridgton. Well, I watch that guy. So just the horniest show on television is. Oh, it's in the cray's. Some of it is so.

Off the wall, just I don't want to spoil things, but I just what I love, what the what the plot becomes, which is so I only watched part of the first episode and that because I wanted to watch a show with Berdy, I wanted to have a show to watch with Bird howled as Birdie Birdie is 12.

OK, here's the deal like that might be to it was or that it was the lie that are happening.

It was a lot. Yeah.

And almost immediately Birdie was like absolutely not. I'm not, I'm not doing this, ok? And I said, You're so smart. I adore you. Let's shut this off and let's watch House Hunters.

Oh, OK. And Joyce.

So we did that, but then I wanted to return to it and then I never did.

It's really just fun, it's this pandemic is a time to watch really stupid, frothy things of no consequence. But I liked it. I just thought it was like I know Birgersson was like before Gossip Girl, like the books were written before gossip.

Oh, they were. I didn't know that. I think so. I think so.

That's good to know because I did think that device I was like, we've seen those guys. We know it's some girl. So it's Dan.

No, I don't know them well. Yes.

You know, as Dan was Gossip Girl, I didn't know that. I never watch, um. Yeah, so. So, yes, it's Bridgton has like a Gossip Girl type vibe and people were pointing that out. But I believe the Bridgton book was written before left.

And so all this information is global. Yes.

OK, so podcast, I think you're doing your best at that. But what else are you doing your best?

I don't know. I was thinking about this before we started recording, and I think I'm doing my best at remaining artistic and creative.

As I said before, I got obviously I got bored making the garbage dresses and I've been channeling my creative energy in other ways, just making silly song videos and the allergy thing.

Anyway, I think I'm I'm doing my best at saying creative and keeping people laughing during this long and arduous time núñez quarantine.

And now as we're sort of emerging. Yeah, I guess that's what I'm enjoying doing.

OK, and you're really good. Can I just say something and this is no shade to anyone.

Funny songs I'm really picky about, like they're going to be honest because there are so many bad ones, there's so many bad ones and it's like no shade to anyone. Like I appreciate the effort that anyone makes, like putting a funny song out there and especially when you, like, put some production into it, making a video or whatever. And I appreciate all those things. Like I have a little history writing funny songs myself. I was a writer at The Rosie O'Donnell Show or all all of the season.

So I know a little bit about writing a funny song. And like there are just certain things that make certain songs funnier than others. And Tom Link, you're very good at writing a genuinely funny thank you. I agree.

And here's what I will say, though, is that what I discovered was that because I just I just was pressing the drum machine on GarageBand and then just hitting record and just free styling it and no thought is really going into it. And so then I add the other voices and music and background after I've just recorded a thing of me singing at the camera.

And I think I guess maybe that comes through is that I'm not trying so hard because I think it's when people are trying hard and like, really trying to make a brilliant rhyme and it's like, no, keep it low stakes. And I discovered the ones where I have put more effort into it are less funny. So can I tell you something?

But this is like knowing your medium is also this is like word that comes into play because like I think the something like if you're writing a song on SNL, it needs to be fucking polished. Oh yeah. Oh. One hundred percent and like needs to be perfect. If you're writing, if you're doing like a funny song that you're just like putting together to keep us laughing and during the covid times.

So I just I've learned that like what my medium is like, you're saying for whatever reason I can just make a stupid song. And some of them were actually cameos that I, I decided I would try to do a musical cameo video shout out, and some of them were just ones that I was doing for specific people. And then these tangents came out of it and I was like, hey, here's your cameo. But also can I post part of it to the Internet?

So I don't know. So thank you for saying that. Yeah, but if they're really funny, I just talked a lot what Casey, what are you doing your best at this week?

I'm really not I'm not doing the best this week. I just feel like I gave up. I'm in a pajama top doing I'm doing this podcast in a pajama top because I don't have any tops clean because I just I won't do the laundry. I won't do it. I won't do the laundry. I won't do the dishes.

I just can't do the dishes.

I can't change the toilet paper one more time. I'm using like one square of toilet paper, like when I worked in the nursing home because time I worked in a nursing home to put myself through college.

The people would always the people in the nursing home would always just try to use one square of toilet paper because they lived through the Great Depression. And I would be like, we have abundant toilet paper.

You can use all the toilet paper in the world, please use more than one square. But now I'm using only one square of toilet paper because I don't want to reach the end of the role, because I just don't want to change the toilet paper roll, because it's been so many roles. It's been so many roles.

I'm alone here. And why will I not put a role onto the role thingy? Like, I just it's I've got an empty cardboard core and then I keep putting the thing on top of it and not putting it on.

And I'm like pulling off one little shred of toilet paper.

And just like, can I wipe myself with this shred and not change the role that luck, I don't know, shred that's stuck to the cardboard.

I lost that. I don't think that is my favorite piece. I don't even get it.

Do you also can I eat the bread of it at the end of the loaf as well?

I love him or hate him and I love it. I just I just can't. And I'm just like, what? I can't change the role one more time. I just I'm like begging. Like, can we just get I know it's not good for the environment, but can we just have like paper plates this week just so we not do the dishes this week?

And I was saying that I'm going to say this. Get a fucking bad day today. Well, it's ah. That they used to advertise on our podcast. It's true.

It's true also that it's the warm the nice warm water. I've tried one of those out. I installed my friend's next birthday and because was like, I don't know how to do this. I'm like, I'll do it. And the warm water is so lovely.

It's so it can I can I tell you something. Do you want to know like moving to New York has been hard for a lot of reasons, Tom. But this is not a joke. One of the biggest ones is that my fancy Japanese toilet, that was a gift to me from Mark many years ago for Christmas. Remained in our home in Los Angeles and now new people are utilizing it by their asses and vagina's wash, it all washes everything in front or back.

So let me tell you something you don't know about this, but when you get your period, you know, it's real fucking nice. Some warm water on your cold water.

Yeah, he had a heated seat, a heated seat, warm water, a dryer, a dryer and a smell diffuser.

Speaking of the Listerine, better, literally better for the environment than anything else.

We should all be using buddies. I then you really can just use one square because you're like clean and you just like Pat Dry. You're good to go.

Can I tell you something, Busi? Not to make you feel bad, but when we redid the bathroom, we bought a toilet like that. We used our credit card points and we bought the fancy toilet like that.

But between you and me, that toilet is kind of a fucking try hard because it also just opens up for you when you walk by it and it sprays itself to like so that it's always so clean and ready to go for you.

And like, there's sometimes I just walk by the toilet and I'm not going to go and I'm like, calm down toilet. Like, I feel bad.

Just you're like, oh yeah, I'm right. I'm just not ready.

I'm just walking by. I'm just like putting a towel on the shower door like we settled in the toilet.

You feed me, see, you know, my you know, my adorable nephew, baby Bob. Yeah. My sister's kid Bob is so cute. Bob is terrified of the toilet because my toilet did that too. And he would come when he would come to our old house and he would be like, oh, all am busy. The Halloween party on is the Halloween party on. And he called it the Halloween party.

And he would like not go into our bathroom for fear of the Halloween party opening. Yeah. What like eating him like I think he does.

That is a real well I'm avoiding my bathroom too because I'm like, you know, that's another reason I won't go in there and change the toilet paper because I think in toilets going to open up and be like, I'm ready for, you know, I think that there must be a way to deprogram that bit.

By the way, I read an article about the reasons why we don't have bad days and I'm probably getting it wrong, but had baby toilet paper with toilet paper. But it was after World War Two. The soldiers came home and they there was a company that was then at that time trying to promote new toilet sales and bidets as as a way of life because it was so common in Europe, but because the soldiers associated the days with the the lady prostitutes that they were having sex with and they didn't fully understand what they were for the the days that got a bad name because of the you know, because things weren't sex positive back then, because these dumb straight men couldn't didn't know what what it was all about.

And that's why we don't have bad days. I'm probably paraphrasing and saying it wrong, but it's something it's something like that.

Ruin everything. What are you doing your best at this week? Best. Well, clearly not electronics. I'm so sorry.

Don't worry about it. What are I mean, this is a free podcast for everyone's entertainment.

That's right. It is a free podcast today. What am I doing?

My best what I am doing my best at like I'm still doing a really I think I really am still doing a good job at parenting. You know, I've been working on that. Yeah. And I feel like I'm still doing that. I'm still doing a good job at that and. And I feel like I'm doing a good job at. Figuring things out. I could yeah, it seems like more to come maybe or maybe not. We'll see.

It seems like maybe maybe you're keeping some things close to the vest, which is something that we talk a little bit about with our guest today, Tassajara correct about keeping some things private, keeping some things to yourself until you're ready or maybe forever, if that's how you feel.

I read once you shouldn't write about something unless you've processed it. I do think that that's kind of like that's it's a good it's kind of like a good thing for social media. Like, I think people should try to process their shit before they share it. And we talk about that with Tess Holliday. I love Tess Holliday. She's a trailblazer. She's a fucking badass. She's had a wild few years. And I look forward to seeing what is next in store for her.

But in the meantime, listen to this adorable interview we did with her.

Tess, hi. Hi, how are you? I'm good, I haven't seen you in so long, I actually do feel like I'm going to cry.

I was thinking about your mom earlier. It's just literally one of my I was thinking about how much I miss going to events. And then I remembered the events that I really like. I was not going to go to the after party and if I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have seen your mom hanging under a tree and talked to her. And then she's like, Oh, that's my daughter.

And it was, you know, but also, like, you were just such a you've been such a source of inspiration to my sister. We are just like all my whole families. Before we were friends, we were fans.

Well, you know, just when you were just on busy tonight, you made me cry and cry because when you were sitting on the sofa talking to Busy, you were talking about how it was hard for you to get booked as a guest on other late night shows. And I've been working in late night my whole career, and I love late night television. But one of the things that I've always felt is that late night isn't really made for me.

And one of the things that I loved about Busy tonight is that you were making a show for us. And finally we could have the people that we wanted to have on. And I felt like that was you, like you're a guest for me. And so it made me so happy to see you there. And so I cried my eyes out.

I mean, this show is still the only late night show I've ever done.

So, you know, maybe that maybe that's how I want to keep it. I don't know is a good day. It was a good thing.

Even when you have, like, these covers of magazines that are, you know, like huge deals, like you see other models on shows.

Right.

And like, yeah, I think. Do you know what? It is busy for me personally? I think it's because I am an advocate and I am very vocal. So I think I think I just kind of scare people away with like that. People look at me and they see like that I'm fat and the tattoos and that I'm outspoken. But it's funny because you can look at all of my interviews and even my podcast now like that doesn't equal unhinged.

I'll just I'll just like, give a shit about people and I'm hot with my tattoos. I don't see the problem.

But yeah, I mean, I obviously don't see the problem either. But I do think that, like, there is a bit of catching up still that like we're waiting for mainstream media to do.

But thank God we have things like podcasts and, you know, social media presences and that we can, like, turn directly to fans. And I was actually listening today to Slumber Party with Tess Holliday, which is your new pod.

And I listened to the Ricki Lake episode, which a huge fan of Ricki Lake. Yeah.

I feel like the three of us are all really weirdly similar in so many ways.

You are you literally have your dress on is exactly what Ricky wears and I wear.

And it's a similar aesthetic. But also, like you guys are both just genuinely nice people that give a shit like my my friends always want to know, like, who's your friend? That's a celebrity. That's like, you know, they'll always want to know the tea and everyone always asks about you and Ricky and I always I'm always like, I'm like, this is the nicest person in there. And then, you know, it's it's funny. Everyone's like, I can tell that she is.

I know she is. And I like what you see is what you get. But that's how all of my friends are like, you know, nobody has time for friends that aren't nice.

And I know for sure not now, but for me kind of not ever, although.

I don't know, I know I'll go see your friends. Yeah, that's what I said. We all got the right.

We love to talk about Pivot's and you are a person that I love how everything in your life has, like, really, I mean, hinged on a lot of different events, right?

Yeah. So, like, first of all, let's talk about initial pivot's, like how you came to be in the public eye to begin with and such a trailblazer in the industry. You went to an agency when you were pretty young to seek representation as a plus size model. And what and what were you told?

Basically, Lowell? And they just they just said it will never happen. And the most that you can hope for is to be is to do print modeling. And I didn't know what that meant, but it essentially means catalogs like, you know, so I you know, I took that. But I also thought, no, that's not what's going to happen. And I'm so I joke about being delusional that that the delusion has carried me this far.

But truly, I had maybe I could really say that it was my calling and I felt like I was meant to do something bigger. But honestly, I just think that it was pure delusion that carried me as far as that.

But like I said, I do have to lose our belief in yourself within yourself, but I have no reason to believe in myself. I was like five foot three, no style, no fashion sense, but also because, you know, as busy, I understand, with her sister being plus size and like her and hers, that me and her sister talked about this plus size. Women couldn't create our own identity until a few years ago because of the access to fashion like tests.

I am like not plus sized. And I would say that in the early days of my career, I was consistently shamed and told that there was nothing for me to wear to events like and I was like almost a, you know what I mean.

Like in the book in nineteen in the nineteen nineties, even like as a teenager over like size 12, you couldn't get like what, like Gunny Sacks or even like Betsey Johnson, what everybody was wearing.

Like it just if you needed like an Excel you probably were out of luck you know.

Yeah. So I feel you.

Yeah I know. And it's and it seems it is like so heartening to me the change that's happened in the last few years, certainly like five, maybe a little bit longer in terms of designers and fashion brands realizing like, oh, what we're doing is not only out of touch, it's actually discriminatory and fucking weird. And we need to, like, change our business.

You know, some people like Christian Siriano, I think of in terms of like a person who always was like, yeah, of course, I'm making size, inclusive clothing for everyone who whoever wants to wear my clothes can wear my clothes no matter what their size or shape or whatever. But like, when did you first start to see the change?

I mean, definitely within the last five years, especially the last two or three years, I went from not having much access to mainstream designers carrying class size. Like you said, Christian, you know, has consistently been one of the only a designer until a few years ago that was high end, that was catering to ship plus size women. But now, you know, I have much more access to it. I you know, I'm literally I'm going through and purging my closet as we speak today.

But, you know, there's still so much work that needs to be done. I still you know, I still couldn't call most folks up and get something done. And I think that's just because I'm not, like, famous enough. But it is. You will be after today test. I well, I felt like a busy space. I just like crazy because I know how many people listen to this podcast know.

I mean, it's not a good thing. Podcast isn't going to do so. So proud of. Oh. Oh so nice.

You know, it's so nice to see you Lizzo on the carpet wearing Versace. And like big, big fashion houses that you never would have seen, you know, a couple years ago. So, yeah, I mean, there's still a lot that needs to be done. But the fact that Donatella Versace is dressing someone that's visibly fat, it means that there is change.

OK, so I need to go back to the pivot because I realized I glossed over your ADHD. So you really do. We really do.

So diagnosed guys. So you're told. No. And you're like you have this idea, I believe, like a self-confidence calling. You're like, I want to be a model. Look at this face. Look at this body. Who doesn't want to see me walking in clothes?

So where do you go from there when you're turned down by the agency that exists in your small town?

Yeah, well, we were in Georgia, so I drove back to Mississippi, decided maybe it wasn't for me. I started doing makeup. So I my very first makeup job was when I was 11 years old. And no, again, no. Right. I did it. My cousin Melisa's I did my cousin Melissa's makeup for her wedding. I kid you not. And I did like Frost Eye Shadow. It was like it was a thing. Honestly, I found pictures the other day and like I, I killed Melissa's wedding.

She looked great.

So I am always like I've been a makeup artist for a while.

I did get paid. I think she gave me like twenty bucks or something. But I started doing makeup professionally in my late teens into my mid 20s when I started modeling. And I mean, I did a bunch of other things, but I really thought makeup was my calling. So when I moved to L.A. when I was twenty four, I really felt that I was moving to L.A. to become a makeup artist. And I was I was dating this guy at the time.

I had my older son. He was a few years old and I thought, OK, I'm going to be a makeup artist. And within a few months of moving to L.A., a casting director had found some photos of me online and reached out to me. And I believe in the universe and divine timing. And that was my first job. And ironically enough, ironically, because, again, the universe, that same building, which is the CNN building in L.A., is is literally across the street from where I found my podcast now.

So I always look out the window and think like, you know, it's just life is funny.

So we go, wow, I love those moments. I love those moments where you're like your timelines are like you can see your previous self walking out the doors of the building across the street and you're like, and here I am.

Yeah, yeah. Interviewing like I hope one day you. Yes. And I think to myself, like, I can't believe that this gets to be my life. It's just fucking wild listening. It's just that life is crazy.

I mean, I agree, but like. You loved doing makeup. You loved doing your own makeup, and I feel like. You obviously have had a lot of confidence in yourself and your ability in that respect, and I think that it's something that's super relatable because I feel this from you and I know it was true of me, which was that like I was like sort of outwardly presenting the most confident in one avenue of my life and then in another avenue of my life, I was just like I could.

I didn't have it together at all, like it was a mess, you know what I mean? And I sort of like put all my focus on the work thing because I was like.

Well, this I know, I can tell and like this, I know, I'm like I got it, you know, like has that been because I know you've just had so many personal transitions recently in the last few years, too, like, has that been a thing where you finally are like a we that confidence that I have over here, I can also bring to my personal life over here?

Yes. That was very well said. That has been the biggest pivot of my entire life. It's been the past year and a half where, you know, I built this incredible career and I did all of these things that I felt like really wild dreams to me and accomplished breaking. Thank you. And God, I mean, listen, when you're the when you're one of the first folks that are busting through that door and changing things, you you know, I mean, you don't know because you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

It's just like happening and you're you're going with it. But you soon realize just from from watching other folks and in history that have pushed things forward, you know, that it's always tougher and it's harder and people don't get you and you're misunderstood. And so you kind of exist in the space for a long time where you know, you know, you're doing the right thing and and no one else does. And so I reached this really interesting point where I started seeing part of the work that I was doing collectively come back.

And I I started really feeling and finding my purpose through my work and being happy again. And my personal life was just a mess because I've I I've shared on my own and and my friends know that I was in I was in an abusive relationship for many four, four, seven years, and it affected everything I did. But for a long time, I was able to separate, you know, the work and the personal. And then it all started to bleed together.

And like you said, like the love that I was showing everyone around me, especially through my work, because my work is a labour of love. And I do it because I know that's my calling and my purpose. But inside I was drowning and I was just putting up this facade because I didn't really realize what was happening. So being able to leave the past year and a half, I am happier and calmer and more grounded. I not a day goes by where I don't feel just incredibly grateful to to still have my career and to be able to finally enjoy these, this life that I created that for so long felt I felt really out of reach for me.

Yeah. And I think teslik one thing that I feel like is so important and I was just so incredibly moved by how you've shared what you've been going through and what you've gone through online is just that, you know, we all know, like outward appearances can be deceiving.

And I think that most women, I, myself included, would look at you and think like, oh, Tess, she's such a fucking bad ass.

Like no one no one would ever get away with treating her less than. Yeah.

And so for you to be able to share is so I mean, you're you have to know.

I'm sure you've heard. I'm sure people have reached out. Like, I just I know how many people it will help to see because that's the whole thing. Right. Like everybody gets like into this shame spiral and then they're stuck. And and I appreciate you saying that. And that's that's part you know, I knew when it when I left, I kept it a secret online for a year and a half. I, I kind of just made it look like, oh yeah.

Now all of a sudden I'm living with my best friend and my kids are split up temporarily because my older son went to live with his father, which was his choice. I was just keeping all of these moving parts. I'm not sure what I was doing, but I knew that at some point when it was right, I wanted to talk about it because you're right, I am a bad ass. But a lot of people would look at me and think exactly what you said, myself included.

And that's why I knew I had to say something, because I didn't even realize that my relationship was abusive until about two years in. And then when I realized it was abusive, it got worse, as it usually does over time, it gets worse. And what happens is you get comfortable not in the abuse, but just you get comfortable in the chaos and you start making excuses for your abuser, you start feeling guilty. And it was actually my therapist that told me what's keeping it.

He asked me what's keeping you in your relationship? And I said, guilt. And once I was able to break through the guilt, the extreme guilt, because I felt like it was my purpose as this person's partner to help them through everything that, you know, they had this they were dealing with this issue. And when you realize that, like, I can't fix these things, I can't do all of this, it's something that person has to do and free myself from that was really empowering it.

And I hope that's what people take out of it, is that, you know, your partners are supposed to, you know, provide support and stability and love. But, you know, you can't you can't fix someone that isn't able to to help themselves. You know, you can't fix anyone else, period, like, full stop.

But I think that was one thing that you just said that I just want to, like, call attention to, because I think it's super important is that you didn't speak about anything that you were going through until you felt ready. And I think that so frequently on social media, it doesn't matter if you have, you know, three million followers or like 30. I think people feel this pressure and this need to speak immediately as soon as something's happening.

And I think it takes somebody who's in therapy like you are to like have the understanding that, like until you fully understand, know what's going on and can sort of process that yourself, like you don't have to to share it with anyone publicly or even privately, even privately.

Like, you could just be figuring some shit out on your own for a couple years and then be ready to let family in and be ready to let close friends.

And that is perfectly OK. But we all have been sort of tricked a little bit with the Facebook generation of like we got to give this, like, status update immediately. And it's like guys put the fucking brakes on the status update.

It's like we're all in the public eye, you know what I mean? Like you, right? You are both in the public eye. You're public figures. But I think we've all been sort of fooled into feeling like we're public figures. I see it with friends who are just like regular like schoolteachers. And things happened in their lives and they almost feel like they have to issue a statement almost like, you know, like like a publicist has helped them write a statement about something that's happened in their lives.

And, you know, and sometimes I feel myself like when something happens, I'm like, well, I better say something because people will be wondering what's going on. And then I'm like, oh, well, I am also wondering what's going on in my life. And we can all just continue to wonder.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting.

But also it's like, I don't know the the thing that's that I hope you like came to task because I feel like I have to is like in the same way. You're not responsible for your partner, you're not responsible for everyone in the world. And so like if sharing your story was going to be something that would cause you more trauma or more pain or would feel bad to you even even if it's like, oh, it is going to help all of these other people.

But if it would cause so much pain for you, like so don't share don't share it. Yeah.

You know, it's you both are correct. I, I felt this overwhelming sense of again, guilt, the guilt in a different way where I created my entire, you know, I hate platform whatever on authenticity and being honest and truthful and transparent and so forth. Then I yeah. I guess why I love you. And so when I, when I left, I mean I didn't share it because it was for a lot of reasons. But I also I had written out things so many times and I was like, I'm going to share.

And I just felt that in my heart. And when I decided to share it, it was really on a day where I just woke up and my heart felt like I just everything inside of me said, you need to. And I messaged my my manager who had been telling me, don't do it, don't talk about it. But it's like she knew, she knew I wasn't ready and it wasn't the right time. And when I felt called, I did.

And I, you know, with the exception of a handful of miserable people. Online, everyone was incredibly supportive and and still is, and it feels like I can actually start living my life. I was keeping this awful secret for so long. I had followers messaging me on Instagram saying I remember meeting you at Disneyland because anyone that knows me knows before the pandemic at Disneyland.

Yes, we still have to go together. I'm still like I'm holding out hope for this trip, but there we are. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. I had people like messaging me saying, hey, I saw you at Disneyland and I saw this and this happened between you and your partner. And I want to tell you, I believe you. And then you realize, wow, I wasn't hiding it. So I just I felt like I could finally start living my life.

And being able to do that in a global pandemic has been where where the world has actually slowed down, has been really, really, really needed and wonderful.

I'm so happy to see you happy. That must have been really hard. And it's just nice to see you happy. I'm so happy.

Thanks. OK, so currently I feel like here's what I'm waiting for with you. And I just want I want to know how close I am or how far I am. I'm waiting for this. I'm waiting for the skin care line.

Oh, yes. You know, I am definitely manifesting that. And I also want to I want to do my own skin care line. I want to do my own hair care like hair line because I have the best hair and I also really have the best.

And it's true. But like, can I ask you a question? Do you want like do you feel like like for me I would put anything on my skin.

You told me to. You have the most beautiful skin of all time. Thank you. And your hair is also exceptionally gorgeous. And I've seen it in person guys. And it's not like extensions clipped in. This is real woman and real hair.

But like with hair, I'm like, don't you just don't you want to just one of those big campaigns? I do.

And I've been waiting. But again, brands, brands just I don't know how to say this other than to just say busy brands are afraid of me. Once I my manager always jokes and she's like, you just need to get in the room because once you get in the room and see your personality, it's different. But I'm like, God, do I just come off of this, like, horrible, scary. But it's like it's that. Yeah, I would love to do a big hair care hair campaign with, like a major brand just because of the visibility and representation, like, you know, to have a fat girl doing a pantin ad.

That's it. That it would. Yeah. That that means so much like so of course. Yes. Manifesting that. Absolutely.

But well I just I wanted to just talk about the vision board for tests for this for the next two years, because I do think that you being the face of a major company is hair care line is like, I'm happy for you to be an entrepreneur and start your own. But I also like for representation for all the ladies out there to, like, see themselves represented. I would love for you to be on huge billboards in Times Square as the face of Pantin.

It's awesome. Can I just I want to say something test. You've had a lot of success in alternative spaces, but then I look at your Instagram and I look at your Facebook following and I look at your Twitter following and I look at the numbers of your success. And those aren't alternative successes. Those are full, flat out mainstream fucking successes. So I don't understand why a company wouldn't just be like, yeah, you're our fucking hair spokes model.

Yes, there we go. Like, you are a mainstream model. You look like me. If you modeled for a shampoo company, I would buy that shampoo because you represent what most of American women A, look like and B, aspire to look like every you know what I mean? Like your the body shape of what most American women look like and you're what most American women aspire to like, fix ourselves up to look like, you know what I mean?

Saying Yeah, no, I mean you guys are hyping me up. I love this. This is what I feel. I feel like they're all actually hugging me. You know, it feels really simple when you say it. And I appreciate like just hearing you say that makes me so happy because that's why, you know, I do what they do. It's just, you know, these brands they want they say they want to be diverse, but then it's just it's not always the case.

So you guys can speak it into existence for me, like I. For whatever reason, we got to make this vision board, I'm feeling pantin, like truly pantin provi tax holiday for Pantin. This is what I'm feeling. Look at that hair. This is so gorgeous. Do you have a branding agent or is it just like your manager in your modeling?

No, I have I can connect to my people.

For me to for me to pitch out. For me to pitch you to pantin. I'm ready. I've got it. I'm here to help you. I think that, like, here's what we all should do. Like, and it doesn't happen all at once. You're still relatively young.

How you listen. Busy. Yes, I know I'm relatively young, but I'm turning thirty six in July and I am really, really, really struggling with the age thing and like our industry because I'm like, obviously I'm not just a model. I consider myself like an advocate. I'm doing a ton of things like, you know, I'm working on a ton of things that are making me super happy, but I'm just like, oh, I feel like I'm getting old.

And no one would care if I was literally thirty nine years old when I was offered my old campaign. And that was like, I'm a I'm, I'm so sorry, I'm getting a skin campaign offered like at age nine was like I couldn't I would have like you know what I would have done at age twenty one.

Like when I want I want it all that shit. And I didn't understand and like and now I kind of do now because this is because I'm supposed to be here. And I thought because also like we can't buy into the ageism bullshit in the same way, we can't continue to buy into the body bullshit because it's all coming from the same patriarchal fucking place.

You know the way I know that. I know that. But, you know, I think I just need to hear from you.

So you're right. I need to be less hard on myself. And the thing I wanted to ask you, speaking of like different points in your career, and I know that this wasn't a highlight in your career, I'm speaking for you, but New Girl is my favorite show of all time. And every time I watch New Girl and you pop up, I always get so excited you're seeing her. You're like the mean Barbours person.

I loved it. Well, I've been friends with Liz Meriwether for so long and I always wanted to do something on the show, but I was basically like on Cougar Town the whole time that that show was on.

So then I think when Cougar Town was over, she was like, please, I want you to do this episode and be really mean to Nick.

And I think that's my dream. And it was super fun.

Yeah, it was so fun. But now, anyways, that's what I was that's what I was going with that if I if that would have happened to me in my career, I'd have been like, well, this is just another moment.

But it's like we have these little moments in our life. It's like I'm making it a bigger deal for you than that.

Well, it's interesting because that's probably a thing that busy forgot all about. And here it is like one of your favorite things, you know what I mean? So you probably have a million things that you forgot all about that people are like, remember when Tess Holiday did this thing? That was like the hugest deal for me. And, you know, people I mean, like, I'm I'm like a writer and people are like, oh, my God, I remember when you wrote that thing.

And I'm like, no, I don't even I don't I don't know. And then I'm like, yeah, I guess I did that.

That was kind of cool. I remember a new girl because it was so fun. And also I to love that show and I love like it's one of my comfort shows, so. Yeah. So I love watching it at night if I'm stressed or whatever. Like I was though.

Now on a new girl like three episodes of a new girl, you know, I love new girl Hal Prince. Oh right.

Of course Prince did. The Prince did the iconic episode where there's butterflies flying. Yeah.

Can you imagine like Prince calls your show and he's like, your show is my favorite show. Can I be on it? No, no, I can't. I also can not talk about Prince. But, you know, I always like it.

But I was OK in your podcast Slumber Party with Tess Holiday subscribe download like Fermor.

Anyway, in the Ricki Lake app, you were saying how since you've like, stepped into this new place of like. You know, being loving yourself and like and being good to yourself and listening to what it is that you need, that you've been seeing like angel numbers a lot, which is like 11, 11 or two to two, whatever.

Are you still you're still seeing them every single day?

I let every I go every day. One of was to me, but I and I screenshot them every day. And it's funny because my my background of my phone is Michael starts screaming so I screenshot one the other. That was 12. It was twelve twenty two and it was on March 22nd.

So little things like that where you look down and you're like, wow. But it really makes me feel comforted. And also I, I feel like now all I do is talk about the universe and manifestation and all of that. But it's truly because if people really knew what the shit what my life was really like, like, like and the shit I went through, just knowing that, you know, like you said, I'm here for a reason.

All of this has happened the way it was supposed to. It just brings me comfort and makes me feel like I'm on the right path, you know, like I did the right thing and that there's I'm not alone. So, yeah. Yeah, that's my thing with the Penneys. People are like, OK, busy. You see people. And I fucking hate it when people are like, you see the panic is because you want to see the panic.

And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like by the way, no shit, I'm manifesting the fucking best when I need to see the bodies like they're showing up because I'm like, hey guys, I need to see a penny. Can somebody help me out here.

One hundred percent. But also like anyone that gives you a hard time for something that makes you happy, I can't imagine being that person because I just want to see everybody happy. And it's like I'm like, oh, that's not a thing. Like you just say it out loud. You just help somebody like let it bring them joy or happiness. We all fucking need it right now, literally.

What do you care?

That's what I'm like.

Like what do you care that I read my horoscope. Like let me just think about how and meditate on how I'm going to, you know, have a good day because you're hurting, you're hurting them by reading your horoscope.

That's you're hurting others.

Casey, somebody who recently had a huge thing happen in their life, like really told me this kind of big, long story about how everything was connected. And they said to me, like, everything's connected. And you're here to make me realize that everything's connected and you're connected to the situation. And they were like so emphatic about it that they really made me believe it. And then ever since then, I'm like, everything is connected.

Everything is connected. Well, everything everything is connected. But go ahead. Go ahead.

No, I mean, like and then I'm like, holy shit, everything is connected. Like, I see connections between things all the time. And I'm like, this song is connected to this thing in my life. And then I'll like, look up the Wikipedia article and like it turns out that the person wrote it when they were like driving through the town I was born in.

And I'm like, everything's connected, but nothing. But that is everything is connected. But also you have to be like in tune to things being connected and noticed that in order to, like, that has to be on your wavelength. And not everyone, not everyone is able to be open to see those things. Some people never will be. And and but it is really special when you're able to make those connections and see those things.

And I just feel like I feel like for me, just talking to you right now and I'm so glad we had this chance to have you on the podcast.

I just love you so much.

I really think that these next two years for you and maybe even maybe beyond, too. But like, I'm just seeing these next two years for you, it's going to be like off the charts tests like you, the world is open for you and like you're now open for the world and like and as soon as we all get vaccinated, the world will be open.

So and and I want to tell you, when you text me yesterday, I had just driven past the place you used to work out. And it was the first time I had ever seen it. Like I was driving through L.A. and I saw the building and I look up and I was like, it was like that, like, yes, like that. And I was like and I was like, we that's we're busy goes. And you had messaged me and again, universe.

And then I thought about how I'm on my third month doing Pilates three days a week and it's like changed my life. Like I'm a completely different person, like inside and out. I feel so connected. And I was like, now I get when busy with post these like sweaty, drippy and yes, he's doing it because I'm like, who wants to work out at five thirty in the morning. But now that I'm not sweaty, drippy person three days a week I get it.

It's just. Yeah. So it changes everything. Like your body being connected to your mind, being connected to your heart, like it's all fucking connected guys. And it's not like, you know, I always get annoyed if anybody would watch whatever.

I actually don't care. But occasionally people would say things to my Instagram or whatever, like nobody wants to see you, like trying to get a hot bod. I'm like, guys, this isn't about like trying to do something that like you don't even know what I think a hot bod is a be like this is really about my like mind body, spiritual connection.

And I get the best ass. Casey, I got real fucking good ideas when I'm on that ramp. You do? Yeah, I do. I'll call Casey after a workout. I was like I was just jumping and I had this idea. And I love that you're loving palletize.

I do hot ladies. And it's mean it's honestly, it's funny. The girl that is my instructor has done my facials that Joanna Vargas for the past two years and literally never mentioned the ladies. And we're like we're like friends. We know it. What's going on. And so. And then I called her crying three months ago. Again, Universe and I. I had been working out with my trainer and I was just feeling a little lost. And she goes, Do you want to try polarities?

And she had never mentioned it before. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, I don't know if I can do it. And I literally I went back three more times that week and now it's my schedule at the end of my time. So, you know, like you said, things happen when they're supposed to and they're just going to remember that when I give myself a hard time for feeling like I'm too old for them to hire or care.

All right. My gosh. That's amazing and also like it's so good for people to hear to, because I do think, especially right now, a lot of people have been like feeling adrift or unmoored or lost or whatever, and like to just remember that, like, you have to leave yourself open.

You have to be good to yourself. You have to get out of toxic situations.

Well, I love you. I love you both so much. I too I didn't know I needed this year. We are so glad.

The only thing I'm just I have just like one tiny thing I want to say to you. And you may already be doing it, but I want to just say one thing in your like thinking forward, thinking about your goals and stuff. I want you to, like, just have as much specificity as possible.

Would you like be as specific as you can be in thinking about what you want next in queue? I it's you know, it's not funny that you're mentioning this. I should just stop saying this.

Let me move my glasses and my wheat head off of my general record. But this is my thing. I wrote this I put this by my book to basically like manifest things. And the last time I wrote it, it was February 25th, the first and only. So I need to I need to, like, start this is that you need to I want you to look right now.

Will you just write down Pantene hair campaign to twenty slash twenty one point twenty one. What are you guys. What fucking. I don't what do you want me to do. I won't do twenty to twenty one flash. What do you guys. I can't I like to weave all year. I don't know. It's twenty one. It's twenty one. Got it. Got it. I'm doing something right. Yeah. Yeah.

That's why we all need to do nice things for ourselves. We lost a year.

And then I will do whatever I want you to create your own face, oil. I am going to create my own skin care line, I I'm working I'm working toward something like that, but I want it to be done right. But yeah, it's I always had shitty skin. So now to be able to have skin that someone like you tells me is great. I love your skin. You're going to survive and thank you.

And then I'm always excited to see you in fashion because, you know, I have to be honest, I'm excited that brands are expanding to be more inclusive size wise. It is my pet peeve when a brand says, like, you know, we have all sizes now and then you click on it and it's just like three outfits and gray in the plus size range. And I'm like, yeah, you fucking got it.

Or it only goes up to three X. And I'm like, yeah, it's there needs to be. Yeah, we need to work it.

And we also like we didn't, we didn't get into this, but we talked about on our in one of the early episodes of our podcast, we talked about the strawberry dress and about like.

Yes, because we were like because credit is a big thing for me.

I'm like a real credit bitch. Yeah. But the first time that we all had ever seen the strawberry dress was because you wear it. And it was like fucking amazing. And I know that you wrote like you got put on worst dressed guests and blah blah blah blah blah. And then fucking Harry Styles.

Where is the he is a snack and like some skinny, skinny, skinny twiggy Instagram type girls wear it and then it like is the new hot thing and you are like, hey guys, guess what, guess who had it on a year and a half ago.

Your girl right here.

Yes, yes. Yeah. It was completely it was totally frustrating to, you know. Yeah, I know. I wore like people were like your cottage for a dress to the Grammys and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, first of all, when you get invited to the Grammy, if you can wear whatever the fuck you want, but until you do, be quiet. I love that dress. I felt so amazing. Perfect for the Grammys, by the way.

I think I felt great. And yeah, we were right when it went viral on Kickstarter, literally everyone there was a somebody that tweeted that's where I thought it gone viral, basically saying, like, tested it first. And and when I spoke about it, I everyone was like, you're just mad that they made it popular. I go, listen, I don't care about who popularized it. I just care that we have an issue societally where it's only deemed as fashionable or trendy or whatever, because slender framed folks are wearing it when in the reality I wore it long before people were actually talking about it and people trashed me like all those Instagram polls that people do.

I was getting mentioned in stories like crazy and people were like, she looks like crap, like everybody hated it. So it was just kind of funny. And I have it in my closet, actually, in my room right here. And it's probably now one of my favorite pieces that I own. I think like if if I ever have a museum of clothing like Dolly, I want my strawberry dress to be there. And my I have the I just got the when I was in London last, I got my body suit that I wore on the cover of Cosmo, the designer, the designer, her designer had been holding it for me.

And she was like, oh, I wasn't sure if you wanted it. And so she met up with me and gave it to me. And that was right before covid. And I was like, look at the universe, because I probably wouldn't have gotten of that was for that. So I have that to watch, which means a lot.

So I love this. I'm like, even if it's not ever I mean, maybe maybe you donate it to fashion museum or something, know, I got to have a museum of my clothes I was putting in that, put it in that journal, put it in the journal.

But but here's what here's like the thing that I think that people did sort of miss in that strawbery dress debate that I just want to like, say one more time here, which is that for years, as somebody who's been in those rags, rags, mom, you know, like like used to be in the like who were at best competition things or even what was your friend Joan Rivers show, Casey?

Oh, fashion police. Fashion police. Without a doubt.

Without a doubt. And I said this from the fucking beginning. Yeah. Whoever the skinnier person was would be the winner of the competition.

Yeah. And it always was like.

So fucking obvious to me and so annoying I like and to keep perpetuating this idea that the only people that can look good in clothes are people are like the people with the least amount of body is so insane because it's really like anything else like and I know people like sort of it's hard to it's it's sort of hard to understand until it just changes. Right. Like. People don't get that like they're like, but I just think it looks better and it's like you you just think it looks better because you haven't, like, been retrained in your brain.

Your brains are thinking, well, your brains are broken.

And yeah. And and all. But also, you know, that is the issue. And it also is because mainstream media and fashion and media has has only shown that particular body type and we have only celebrated that particular body type. It's literally only been the past few years where you have seen, you know, folks in larger bodies existing in high end fashion and being celebrated. And literally only the past two seasons have we had major size models on the runways, were wearing major designers like literally the past like two years.

So it's just, you know, that is the big issue. And that's why it's so important when these brands do these diverse campaigns, like even the only one that you are a part of, even whatever things that I've been grateful enough to be a part of, that's why it's so important to to be mindful of who you're casting in this, because it literally changes how people view what is perceived as beautiful and and quote unquote, normal. We have normalized, quote unquote, normal, right?

Yeah, because just getting to see a mannequin in a store to, like, know how the fuck a pair of jeans might look on you, you know, like in and to feel like you even are welcome or like you even belong in the store, like when down a regular person. I've been listening to this podcast. There's this really popular podcast you're wrong about. But one of the hosts has been doing this podcast called Maintenance Phase. That's all about like dieting in the diet industry and about.

And it's just about how like it just doesn't work. It's all a scam. It's all a scam. And it just it just does not work.

You watched like The Biggest Loser ever knows that it's a scam because it's they it's like they tried to get me to be on The Biggest Loser like, but it was it was the start of my career. So no one knew who I was, though. So it wasn't like it was like a tax holiday on The Biggest Loser. But but they they asked me to do it. And I'm so glad that even then I had the integrity to say no because it's so it was so demoralising to see folks falling airplanes, because I'll tell you guys what I have worked out my entire life.

It wasn't until holidays that I found something that my body loved and that I was drawn to. And I'm still I'm actually eating more now than ever because I'm I'm recovering from an eating disorder. And I my body has changed. It's not because I'm on like a diet. So once you once you realize how I mean, I could talk about diet, culture, but all of this like the theme of this podcast, they think it's just it's all connected.

Yeah, it's all connected. Connected. Yeah.

And it's just it's a shame because, you know, you're just made to fucking hate yourself. And it's like the number one cause of bullying from, like the second that you're born, you know, the second that you're sent to school on a bus when you're six or whatever, you know, and inanimate objects make you hate yourself chairs and mannequins and you know, and let alone people and articles of clothing. And everything's not made for you.

Also dating life. That sucks.

I'm so glad to have my cats and my kids because now it's so it's awful dating, dealing with all that, like you said, Casey, and dumping on top of, you know, the how people treat like plus size folks. Dating is ridiculous. But but yeah, it's there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

I feel so lucky because my partner, my husband, I think that he's he's a wonderful person and just has always seen me as like a person, which is like but even that gets like a little unhealthy because I'm like he sees me as a person. Well, how fucked up is that, that I'm like so grateful that someone sees me as a person like fucking of course, you know what I mean.

Like like that's wild that I'm like, yeah, he deserves all the cookies in the world for seeing me as a person. And then but then also he's had to watch people treat me like shit and be like, you know, he's had to watch his friends treat me like shit and be like and then have to make a choice like what do I cut this person out of my life? Do I punch my friend in the face? What do I do?

You know, I mean, both I yeah. I'm sorry. It's what I. I mean, it's wild and it's just I think it's appropriate. I think you feel like, honey, you should punch my friend in the face.

I mean, I probably closer to the action and that I mean, I know.

I just, you know, I think. But tests like, again, circling back.

So grateful that you were. So sure of yourself and your ability is AK you call it delusional, I would call it an amazing amount of confidence and belief that, like you were meant to do this because you, like, have opened the door for so many people.

Yeah.

And and have started countless conversations and.

So, you know. Fuck the late night shows that haven't had you on no shit except all shade and and like and like, we keep going, right?

Like keep and we keep going for, like, our kids and and for the fact that, like, we want to change people's brains, like we have to. And I'm I'm like I, I have to do my own fucking work myself, like I have had to. And I've had to like retrain my own biases about like fat phobia and like even just things that I, you know, wouldn't even think twice about, like somebody saying and then being like, oh yeah.

No, wait, that is that is fucked. Yeah.

But once you like, it's like learning a new language, dealing with your fat phobic tendencies or your biases based in things that like honestly it's you couldn't help the household you grew up in, but now you have to learn how to speak a different language and your brain will click at some point. But it's fucking practice and like you just have to keep retraining and when you're going to fuck up, but don't be afraid to ask questions and like, you know what I mean?

Because I still struggle sometimes. And I'm so grateful to like my friends and my sister and people who've educated me and, you know, and the. For my own sanity, you know, yeah, I mean, I guess I have. You know, I have said this a lot throughout the podcast, but I do really love and admire you, but not just not just because I was a fan of your mom and you, but I was going to say to you that your mom was funnier.

I was a fan of your work long before actually being, you know, being lucky enough to call you a friend.

But I was going to say something, but I forgot what I want to say. I love you, too. I'm going to let you go, too. And I cannot wait to go to Disneyland with you.

It was such a pleasure talking to you. You're a ray of sunshine.

You are such a ray of sunshine and even lighter and freer and like just living it all, just beaming.

And I really am just I am so excited to watch where you go in the next several years because I just like the whole world is opening up now and like we thought it was before, the let's see where, you know, it's going to go.

Honestly, I have I'm halfway vaccinated. And when I get that other vaccination, I am going to make out with everybody, everyone.

So, I mean, we're all it's the summer. Let's just get in line. Fucking making out. No one. No one's getting out without getting sick. But I'm serious. I'm with you. I'm absolutely 100 percent with you.

OK, bigeye, everyone bigeye.

Guys, we're back with Tom Link. Just still chatting about toilet paper, we were we were at Tom asked during the test interview when you guys were listening to it how we felt about single ply versus double ply.

I said, I'm a double. I'm like a shaman. I'm a shaman bitch. I love that bear. I love it's plain asshole and I love it.

They have a commercial right now that I've been seeing a lot about where the bears all have itchy assholes, I guess, because they're not getting their assholes clean enough. And I'm like, I guess that's like a problem.

Deer shaman bears. That's a different that's actually a different situation. What's the thing that Cristen the thing that Christabella had, like all her kids, brought it home from preschool or whatever, ringworm, the itchy booty hole, pinworms, pinworms, pinworms and worms.

That's what you have.

I mean, I have to say it like bears probably do get a parasite every now and then in the forest. That's maybe like like maybe it's a toilet paper thing, but maybe it's like more serious. And those bears need to go to the doctor also.

Maybe they're wiping too hard. I'm a single ply because I like to have. I like to be gentle down there and I like to have control sometimes there's just too much. It just seems like the the shaman stuff. Sometimes it feels like it's just too much of it. You know, you can't use I use I use less like I just that Asherman, I really feel you could do one square because that's just like that. Is just like very plush.

Tom's face right now.

I actually almost thought you were frozen because you're just like, OK, guys, we had we asked Tom, do you think that we're living in the Sims world or that this is like a matrix or what like what's your feelings on it?

Are we living in a matrix?

I just. Are we each in our own matrix then, or are we all part of somebody else's thing? We don't know.

We don't know. Like it might all be a video video game that someone's playing.

You exist or do both of you exist? In my mind, are you characters I created?

Do we or do you exist only because. Well, like or are we all being played by different players?

I feel like I don't think we're I don't think I'm someone playing a video game and I'm their avatar. I don't think so. I feel like a. No. I don't. I don't think about it that much. The thing I do think about those sort of related is do you think that I think about this a lot? Do you think the planet Earth is being like, you know, how we have bacteria living on us or parasites living on us and like we get a rash and then we scratch it and then we have to, like, kill, you know, we take medicine to kill it off.

Do you think that the Earth in a way that we can't understand it, conceptualize is a being and like we are the parasites on it and it's scratching us. It's like, you know, setting like Earth. Horton hears a who said, yeah, like that.

I think that that then the Earth is a being a parasite on another being, which is the universe. And it just goes on forever. And like are the other planets, are they all beings and they all sort of communicating. I'm not on drugs as we no. Aso's, do they are they able to communicate in ways and maybe some of them are dead and frozen, just still floating. I don't know.

Well, OK, here's what here's what I'm going to say. I would like to get stoned and talk about this more, OK?

I think that there are some version of something, some fucking crazy ass shit going on, you know what I mean? Like and I have the same things that, like repeat and pop up and like things that are just real fucking strange. If it isn't a video game, I'm like, what the fuck is happening here? Who's running this shit?

Yeah, like, what if déjà vu is really like something?

Well, that's deja vu is part of it. Right. Like like timeline's like. Like what?

I want to go to the timeline where I'm like monetarily really successful and having it like a great time.

Right. Maybe you need to do a timeline jump. Well, here's what I'll tell you, Tom Link. This is a very comforting thought, is that sometimes when you're having a bad time, it is very comforting just to be like, hey, there is a timeline that exists where things are going fucking awesome for me. So let me just think on that one for a minute.

I'm like, yeah, and we I saw Mark Marcello Crawl, who's the psychic that I love, the tarot card reader online.

She participated in this like I don't know if it's like sort of like a meditation session called a time line jumping session with a person named P the fairy.

OK, I'm not helping you guys. I can't make it up.

But P the fairy, I need more information before I commit to wanting to do a session of timeline jumping. OK, but the fairy does this like guided timeline jumps.

We'll be careful. Busy because I did you watch behind her eyes on no one fucking.

Well, they they raised this on Netflix. It's a show on Netflix, and I'm just cautioning you to be careful.

Just be careful going out of your body.

Yeah, it's about as if you think it's a murder mystery show and then it's about astral projection.

So and just I'm going to just say be careful. Oh, I really do.

I meditated on the airplane and I really do have like I can get like when I meditate, I get like it is wild. I like, go deep so fast. Maybe you're outside of your body. Yeah, maybe some, you know, Prince I think Prince kind of was into all of this stuff he believed in in this stuff kind of strongly. I'm going to send you one of his albums. Busy, OK, please do. You'll like it.

Talk about someone who, like, maybe was in touch with another timeline or. Other things that we can't conceptualize, I feel like, don't you think he was yeah. Yes.

Yeah, he he had this feeling of like everything you believe is true and you are everything and everything is you. And everything has happened before and everything will happen again. And but still you can evolve. But everything is the same shit, different time. I don't know. It's really interesting. But there's this album, Artificial Age, that I think is like a little bit of like a handbook for like saying goodbye. But like, in my opinion, Prince Färm don't get after me if you don't think the same thing.

But I think it's when he knew that, like his life was drawing to a close, he had a couple of albums after that. But I think that's when he sort of knew, like, I'm not long for this world, but also, like, I'll be beyond this. Don't worry about it.

Mm hmm. Also sort of bring it back. I wonder if. If if when his coming of age, if there had been more options open to him as far as being queer or gender, non binary or fluid, I wonder if he would have you know, I just I wonder about, like, I don't know, he was really religious as well.

But yes, yes. This is like we could do a podcast that's like a week long about this weekend. There's there's so, so, so much. And I do want to do a podcast that's a week long about this with you. There's so much to talk about. It's like so much like you talk about print's people love to talk about Purple Rain. People love to talk about, you know, there's like five albums that people love to talk about, but there's so much.

And just like we were talking about, little Noss acts like doing, you know, basically giving people like a graduate course in this one song, like Prince was really doing things on like seventy seven levels that people are just like, oh, no, I love performing, you know, but he was really he was really like doing a whole thing that is super fascinating.

And that whole like gender construct thing is really, really super fascinating to me. And it's all super fascinating.

Do you guys see numbers a lot? Do you see the like repeating numbers one one one 11 11 two two two.

Yeah, I always see, like my favorite numbers. That's cute. Hey, should we read this letter or. No. Yeah, go ahead. OK, so we I talked about the Matrix.

Shit. Tommy Yeah. My glitch and glitches in The Matrix. I've had a few recently that are pretty wild. Yeah.

I was telling you about one that I had to. That was really weird. OK, so busy. Read the read the letter.

OK, so we asked people at home if they wanted to, they could write to our email address, which is busy doing her best at Gmail dot com to share their own glitches in the Matrix stories or whatever their Simsbury is or whatever the video game, whatever they think.

And here's one from someone named Pamela who wrote us and said, Ladies, you asked for our crazy Chatree, Sims Matrix thuggery and life heroes. Mine is smallish, but I'll never forget it. I was driving to work in the morning. I'm from the Detroit area. I won't bore you with highway numbers. And I was passing one of those electronic billboards where traffic alerts and other up to the minute reports are posted by the government. As I glanced at the billboard out of the corner of my right eye, I saw that it said something about an accident, but I couldn't see the details.

The billboard was behind me. It was too late. And I thought to myself, oh, shit, what did that say? And suddenly there was the billboard again, coming up on my right, not another billboard, the same one I drive that route five days a week. There are not two of those billboards within a mile of each other. The same billboard popped up again, and I had enough time to read the message allowing me to get off the freeway and take surface roads to the office to avoid the wall to wall traffic only two miles ahead.

I made it to work on time that day, but I was useless for the first hour because I was so stunned by what had happened. I thought about needing to read the message and the matrix about it. So convenient, so trippy. Thanks for the podcast. One of my favorites. It's fascinating, like where they both real or was one like a vision, you know what I'm saying? Or maybe it's just like when your Netflix freezes and just a little glitch.

I think it was just a jump. Yeah, it was just like it was like a glitch and it was literally like a glitch. That she just saw. Have you ever seen that that video of like when the basketball players are like and they were doing a play and they overlooked that?

Have you ever seen this?

There's a there's a video. I don't even know what the team is because I'm so not a sports bitch. But there's basketball players there doing a play, they're playing a game. And then they all turn and they move and they are exactly in unison like they're doing a dance. And it's so strange.

Strange. It looks like a video game. It's the craziest thing. And were they conscious of it? No, just like they're just totally insane.

They're just 100 percent in sync, all moving together. It's the weirdest thing.

And people are like, it's a glitch in that matrix or hot hive mind or so weird. It's like all they're programming is together.

We'll all be Dub's. I don't want to blame your electronics issues on me, but I don't wear watches anymore because I killed so many of them. I yes. Like Casey.

Tell them about me. Yeah, you kill everything.

Wait, what are you, a slider as well? I'm in a Facebook group. It's called Selye, like streetlight interference. A lot of us have like, yeah, yes, yes.

I kill all electronics. I like power down things. I like turn street lights off. Yes, I, I, my car. You know, honestly, you can put this in the Facebook group just if people are considering it and you have this ability, don't get one because the car has like never functioned properly because it's all electronic and Ray has taken it to the dealer like seven times and they're like there's nothing wrong with this car.

This car is fine. Yep.

That's I didn't realize there's others like me out there. I've been known to like I had to purchase three of the same TV before I got one that worked that like when you plug it in and when to turn on, it's like you are both very energetic.

So maybe you're just like our energy is a it's a lot.

Well, what I my theory is like we're we're functioning on high frequencies and it. Yeah, maybe it's part of the matrix. Maybe it's a prince thing. It's just like we're vibrating on something that isn't just like, you know, not ready for this. This plane isn't ready for it. Yeah.

Just I just with so we, I, I feel like I really opened up in ways I haven't on the podcast.

Is this a healing. Well, well consider this a health and wellness podcast. I feel it in here.

I've been busy. Phillips is doing her best. It's not. Yeah, it's definitely not FDA approved as that.

But you know, but we did invent persimmons and but strips and and you know, hey, guys, guys, just guys listening.

Do us a favor. If pussy exist, please don't please don't tell us about it. Yeah. Because that is really and just believe and we don't live.

We don't think your pussy smells. We, we just think the area around your pussy, even if it does it's still great.

It's, it might be delightful. No heavy rain also. Fine. Find you somebody who thinks it does smell great. You know, that's like what we're all supposed to be doing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's where it goes. Like the way it's that's the ad if you like, the way it smells. But other people are accustomed to it or ready for it, then that's when you would want to perceive it. Maybe I'm a work in progress.

If you don't love this pussy at its worst, you don't deserve this pussy at its best.

Is that a meme that I was just going to say? Is that new merch? I hope so. I hope so.

I do, too. I really do, too. All right, guys, listen, I got to go. You got to go. Everybody's got to go. This podcast is Dulong.

Sorry if the sounds like you didn't even have to fast forward through commercials, but don't worry, those commercials are coming back. They're coming back. They're not called commercials on a podcast. They're called what? Ads. Ads?

Yeah. All right. It's on like we love you so love you so much.

I feel my skin is clearer. My hair is shinier. Having spent this time with you, I agree.

I agree with all of it. For all of us and you at home, I hope that your skin is clearer and your hair is shinier and.

Oh, I haven't given you a toe fungus update Casey recently.

Oh, bummer. We're out of time. I love you guys until next week. We love. We love you. Oh, no.