Zoe Lister-JonesBusy Philipps is Doing Her Best
- 875 views
- 16 Dec 2020
Wow, wow, wow! It’s a long one this week, but Busy, Shantira and Caissie had a lot to discuss, including boobs, pubes and Christmas. Then Zoe Lister-Jones drops by to discuss her TV/film/music career, a big pivot, how the set of “The Craft” was maybe haunted & to gossip about Beyonce a little.Sponsors:Helixhttps://helixsleep.com/bestOlipophttps://drinkolipop.com/best or use code BESTEach & Everyhttps://eachandevery.com/busy and use promo code BUSYWarby Parkerhttps://warbyparker.com/ourbestBevhttps://drinkbev.com/busy
I was supposed to be six feet tall, you guys were all supposed to be a three on three fucking basketball team, we ruined our lives, but instead we're three witches with a podcast. Hi, everybody, it's me, busy, Philipps, Keesey, St. on Shinta Jackson, we are all collectively doing our best. Thanks for hanging in with us. If this episode is a little late to you today, that's on me.
But you know what?
I'm doing my best costume if I can. What are what are you doing at your desk?
OK, this is what I want. I want to do it on the phone with you. OK, so I've been working so much, you guys, and it's been wild a journey, if you will. And part of it is that there's something called a giant snowstorm nor'easter heading our way. It's a nor'easter. Yeah, I've heard of those. And so it's everybody's in a tizzy then. Also not sure if you've heard about it.
A global pandemic has hit the country and the world and it has affected work practices and has made things tricky. But we are very safe, as safe as we can be following all these protocols, I have to say.
For those of you at home who are like, what the fuck is happening right now?
Well, I do want to say there's a lot of, like, sound effects happening because right wing some OK, guys, I'm trying to open this package because guess what was shipped to me and then was ONJ got. Derailed somewhere else, and then I've been working so much and it showed up today and I was like going to have it sent out to our location but was so far away, we were shooting so far away. And then I was like, that's not worth it.
I'll just. It's our lunch. Yeah. It took me too long to get there, I'm sorry, it's so very dramatic unbox. First of all, Santero hasn't seen this case. He hasn't seen it. Casey seen a bunch of it. Have you gotten it? Kiss? No, I've not gotten it. It's, um. We are prioritizing it going to you because.
Well, you know, I get it. Yeah. So, first of all, Centura, I think you're going to love this. I really love that. Yeah.
This is like I love the inside of it. I know. And it's a little Chilo jacket. I love judge on the inside of stuff too. I love it. You need to judge there's a penny on the inside for you to find secretly.
And is there a penny in the pocket of this one. There's like secret pennies to be found in the merch guys.
Oh it's so cute. I'm obsessed. One I'm obsessed with the pennies. OK, and then there's these cute exercise leggings that you can wear with this or you can wear it in the snowstorm.
And guys, lots of people can I tell you got lots of people. I've been wearing those leggings because I've had them for a while because I needed to try them to make sure that they were up to snuff.
Yeah, up to code. If I was going to be shelling them out to you people, I needed to know that I could do a leg fit workout in them and that they would be good. Yeah, they are. So anyway, they're great. And lots of people have deemed me asking me what are those cute leggings.
Oh, and I've had to be like, I don't know.
I can't I mean anyway, so the cute leggings in this whole top go together and then there's the sunset sweatshirt.
Look. Oh that's so good. That's a very Arizona vibe.
It's a sunset like Arizona and then there's little soft sweat pants to match ish.
But it's like you're a little setting sun and then there's a cozy setting sun blanket so you can wrap yourself up in a sunset. I love it. I love it.
Wait, you guys today on set, I said I was telling the saga of.
The bathtub in this rental place. Yeah, and just like in between Setup's and one of the crew guys was like, what did you just say?
And I was like, oh, I just said, I'm a real bath bitch. And he's like, how is that not on a T-shirt?
And I was like, These are great guys.
I'm real happy with this merch. So let's launch it. It's it. Yeah. Yeah. Sweat swipe up. It's like five guys. My Mexican food just arrived.
Oh, this is going to be the grossest podcast of all time real rainbo of ripping tape and chewing tacos, you guys.
That looks good as hell. Does look good. All right. What are you guys doing your best at this week? Casey, I have something that you're you're doing your best two things as far as I'm concerned. But I want to hear what you think. You're doing your best at Chinchorro same Shinjiro. You start go.
OK, I've been doing my best at this. Might sound weird, but like kind of like feeling and living in this body because I have my breast reduction surgery will be tomorrow or today depending on when this comes out the 17th of December. So like I did some yoga last night, I'm going to go skateboarding Wednesday night and just kind of remember all the ways I felt doing the things that I like to do before I like my bike is different for like a really long time.
So, like, I've been really, like, trying to like not what do you call it, a. That's sensual, but it's like really trying to feel what it's like to be in my body before it's like a whole new type of body. I literally almost just started crying.
I was trying to I put myself on mute and I was trying to eat. But now I feel very emotional about this. And yeah, this is my last Tuesday in this body. And then tomorrow will be my last Wednesday in this body. And last weekend was my last Saturday in this body. So it's like I'm trying to remember what it feels like to be like tomorrow will be my last day in this body the way that it is.
So that's what of my that's that ritualise. That's what the word I was looking for, trying to ritualise what it feels like to be in this body.
Oh, God of you know, I'm really struggling, but that's what's so incredible and.
Could be a really long way, like this body's been with me, obviously. This might sound weird, but this body's been with me my whole life and it has worked a lot of jobs and it's really sad. And I've been really happy and moved all across the country. And like, this body will be different on Thursday.
I'm so fucking incredible and also really important for people to hear, because I tell you something, I so I had lisick well LASIK eye surgery, which is you guys know, after the operation, the other version, that's not Lasik, it's Lasik.
When I when I lived in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, there was a restaurant called Kentucky Fried Chicken like Kentucky Fried Chicken.
But it's Lezak and I had I've worn glass, I like wore glasses my whole life and I could never see, like I really couldn't see.
I had very, very, very bad vision. And and I remember in the months after my eye surgery, I was like I had this, like, weird feeling. It was almost like a morning.
But of like my identity as a non seeing person, you know, who then all of a sudden is a person who has perfect vision.
And it was like really kind of difficult for me to sort of wrap my head around what that was at the time.
And you're like sort of you're so aware because you're just the fucking best, but like to be so aware that you're, like, entering into this thing that's going to change you forever and change something that's like been a part of you forever and you'll from here on out.
Move through the world in a different way, and you are losing a part of your you're losing a part of yourself and you're excited about it and we're excited for you.
But I'm really I think it's so incredible, L.A., that you've, like, taken the moment to really acknowledge what is about to happen so that you can, like, move forward and have not just zero regrets, but also like, I'm so happy I had my Lezak surgery done.
Well, I'm really, really happy. I'm really excited. But like also it's like I think that, like, the doctor was like when you wake up, like your first, your first breath will be different because I have so much weight on my chest. So it's like, what does it feel like to like drink water in this body? What does it feel like to eat in this body? What does it feel like to put a shirt on on this body?
Because all of that I might hurt for a minute. Oh, yeah, right. But like, those titties might hurt you. Well, that's the thing. Like thinking about how how like easily like I'm going to make sure I appreciate it, but like how easily I kind of move about in this body. Like, I could just put my sweatshirt on or I could just go for a run or I could just like get on a skateboard and kick push.
But I know on Thursday, like, obviously I won't be able to do that immediately, but I learned how to do all that stuff in the body that I have. So it's going to be like I don't think I'm I have to relearn how to skateboard, but I will be like, I don't know, your balance will be off. Yeah. So who knows? I mean, it might be easier. These bitches might not be you're not going to be on top heavy.
Yeah, really. Good point though. When I had my older son, I had a C-section and, you know, like that's a normal thing. And obviously you'd expect it to hurt somewhat. But like, what I didn't realize is how much everything in your body depends on that muscle. Yeah. They cut into I was like, I cannot even blink my eyes without, you know, it was such a shock to me.
And so you saying, like, how aware you're trying to be of your entire body. That's not a place where I was at even when I was like having a child. And so I really just admire that. You're that thoughtful.
Well, I'm also I think it'll make me appreciate what I'm gaining because, I mean, like full disclosure, like the doctor was talking about how, like my my ribs will be able to expand more. So I'll literally be able to breathe deeper. So I'm like going to be like, oh, I'm going to really know what it feels like, what the difference is when I wake up and like, that's something I'm excited about. So that's where I met you guys really trying to ritualize this experience in this body that I'm in.
You're just the coolest.
And I'm so I'm so excited for your journey and I can't wait to see your boobs. And is that weird? Is that an appropriate thing to say? No, I'm very excited.
So really grateful for this podcast because, I mean, like, I think that the pandemic has done a lot for a lot of people. But I think that I wasn't I've I've always been, like, comfortable in my body. But, like, I was uncomfortable. I was like I had my back kind of hurts. My chest is really big. But I was like during the pandemic, I'm at home, I wear sweatpants, no shoes and a sweatshirt most of the day.
And I was like, oh, this is the most comfortable and relaxed I could possibly be and I'm still uncomfortable. So it was like somebody shout out to Amy, who's a listener, sent me a message and was like, Yo, this is where I went. And they'll lay like truly so many people from this podcast, we're like, this is the best decision I've ever made. Do you need Wrex? And I don't think that I would have I think it would've been the thing I thought about more than actively actually actively did if it weren't for, like talking about it with you guys and then listen and having people message me about the experience.
So like shout out to the pandemic and shout out to the listeners, shout out to Amy, what's up?
I mean, here's the thing. I saw that there was this person on Twitter that was saying, like, what's a podcast where it's like you're just sitting around talking to friends. And several people tagged our podcast. And that was really that's really nice. I don't listen to other podcasts. I don't know, but I know that, you know, that's true, but I do feel like it goes both ways.
Do you know what I mean? It's not like like when people have come up to me on the street here in New York and there have been people that have and said, oh, you know, the J. Crew story, obviously. Yes. But I'm always like, oh, I know you, too. Like, I feel like I know them just as much. And so I really I really appreciate that.
I just want, like, everybody listening to know that, like, you know, we are three friends sitting around and talking. But we really appreciate your input to the conversation as well. Always, always. And in this case, it like changed Santeros life.
Yeah. I mean, I like very helpful. Thank you. I really needed to take the plunge. And it was also I mean, it is a pandemic.
I have the time available for this person to recover. But how long is the recovery? Like in total, the plastic surgeons were like very nip turkey, but like not in like the creepy, weird way that show us, but like it's two guys who do it together. So, like, the surgery doesn't take as long. But like, he was like, hey man, after the surgery you could be at brunch in three days. And I was like, all right.
Anabranch also, sir, is a global pandemic.
We're not going to run. You know, that that's his spiel.
It's like, hey, you could be out in these streets in three days.
He just has not adjusted for covid at all over like, well, that seems irresponsible.
So I like what I could go to brunch in three days, but I will be at home. Well, I have some good news for you. There's some real cozy, cute sweats coming your way to recover.
And so, yay, I'm on Shinjiro really excited about all of this and this journey, and I'm just so happy that we're all on it with you.
The arthritis in my spine is also exciting. Oh, jeez Louise. I bet.
I bet. I mean, honestly, though, it will make working out different. Do you guys remember the presidential fitness test? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The worst fucking day of the year for me. And there was always like some some fucking asshole kid. It was always like the one kid who was like, it's his best day of the year because, you know, Frankie can do a hundred push ups in second grade or whatever gymnast there was like one.
It was always like one girl and one boy who did gymnastics because a part of it used to be pull ups and push ups.
And I was like climbing a rope around, like, no one can do that. I was like, I'm in, I'm eleven, I'm ninja warrior shit.
And also in my school, they always took that opportunity to update your health file and to weigh you in front of everyone.
Yeah, well, your weight across Samim to the same with the with the weight thing.
I remember the gym teacher yelling across to the nurse now like, listen, I was like in third grade and very solid. I'm not going to deny having been a very solid kid, but I just remember everybody being like, you weigh 130 pounds, like that's I weigh sixty and I just remember going home and being so upset and crying and my dad being like, What? What's bugging you?
And I was like, they way that's in gym today. And I weighed like 130 pounds. And he was like, Yeah, you're five foot four.
Like you're a full foot taller than everyone in the third grade. Like what? Yeah, of course you do. You'd be sick if you did it. Then I was like, oh yeah, you're the the height of an average sized adult woman. So that's yeah.
It was like, you know, how we have to buy you, like, grown up clothes. That's why. Because that's yeah. That's how tall you are and that's what you weigh. I really appreciate that response from your father.
I really love that. Also, kids are small, like just thinking about it, like there's just like a whole humans walking around that weight. Fifty pounds.
That's insane. Fifty are like, look at what I'm like forty maybe.
But she's so tiny.
I mean I'm thirty while being very tall is a little little bird bones herself.
So she does not like a whole lot of those little hollow bones like when you see people because like you can just like pick them up, you're like, oh my gosh, yes. You have like thoughts and opinions. You weigh forty five pounds and you are so healthy. I think that's hilarious.
So various like I mean when I started doing if I ever told this on the podcast before, when I started dating my husband, I ran out of laundry.
Oh. And I dug in the back of my closet and took out a pair of pants that I wore like on a date with him when we were like he was like twenty and I was like nineteen or whatever. And he was like, oh, those are cute pants, I never saw those before, when did he get them? And I was like when I was eight. What? No. Oh, but you were you were you one of those kids who were like you grew to be five four when you were a and then you stayed five four forever.
Same. And you know, I still wear shorts that I've had since seventh grade. I have been the same size, literally the same size since like seventh grade I think. But I have like gone up and down, fluctuated weight wise, but like essentially the same size.
I was essentially the same height.
No shit. I grew inch every year from sixth grade to my sophomore year in high school. When I was 18, I grew an inch so like my license said five eight.
And we had to change it later because I grew an inch and I was five nine. Oh, my gosh.
You never stopped growing. That's crazy. Are you like, what's it like clean living? What were you doing? I was just living my life in every year, drinking coffee in and I still don't drink caffeine.
I don't like. There you go, you guys. I'm convinced. I'm convinced I stunted my growth.
I do not drink caffeine at all.
I drink alcohol in high school. No, I drink no alcohol. First of all, I didn't have enough friends to be giving me booze. No, in order to drink alcohol, you got to go over to people's houses. And that's why people let you do that. My mom was not let me go to strangers houses. I was at my own house.
Oh, OK. You just made me realize something. I was five foot four at the start of third grade and I'm five foot six now, but I need to look up the year Diet Coke was invented.
Oh, you started drinking it? Yeah. Are you supposed to be like six five then? Who knows. That's what I'm wondering. I might have been taller because my dad six four. But I did try to drink coffee when I was like my my junior year in high school, my cafeteria started having, like, cappuccinos or whatever, and I like started buying them, trying to convince myself I like liked coffee. But I did that for a couple of months.
I did not like coffee. And maybe that I maybe I'm supposed to be six foot you guys.
You guys I am. Now, everything is becoming crystal clear to me. I obviously was supposed to grow more. I was supposed to be taller and I got real into. Coffee, caffeine, Coca Cola, sugar, weed, drugs, alcohol. I like you don't seem like you're like, oh, it was just caffeine.
And then the listener goes on and then I was like, honestly, all of that might have stopped it. I think it did processed foods. It was also guys during the 90s on the big like coffee house revolution. Is that right?
Is that what we call it? What are we calling it anyway? Also, culture, cultures, your snacks. I feel like snacks in the 90s for high schoolers, like they've kind of reigned in in shout out to Michelle Obama these days. Yes. That's when there was like a heavy like Twinkies, heavy Doritos, 3D dunk to squeeze. It's at high school, you guys. I had like like Lunchables every day, like, everything I ate was like processed and shot full of, like, hormones and disgusting.
And then. Well, anyway, the point is, I was supposed to be six feet tall. Yeah, me too.
You guys, we're all supposed to be a three on three fucking basketball team. We ruined our lives, but instead we're three witches with a podcast. Well, Guiles, I don't know how you've been sleeping recently. Some people have been tossing and turning up all night. But maybe it's not anything other than you just are sleeping on a bed mattress.
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So I think I'll talk about it on the podcast is that, you know, I love, like, a little psychological trick that you can do to yourself to motivate yourself or to help yourself get through a rough time.
This is like you're one for them. One for me. Exactly.
So like the one, two, three thing that I do, one for one thing, I have to do one thing I want to do, one thing for someone else helps me get through depression.
But also one thing I really, really hate is making mistakes.
Like, I just hate making mistakes. Nothing makes me feel worse. It makes me feel sick. Everybody makes mistakes. But nobody, no matter how many times someone tells me that rationally I just hate making mistakes or not doing the best at something.
So anyway, lately I have been do when Fred Armisen used to do that impression of Joy, Bay'ah, and he would go, oh yes, of course I love that.
I do that sometimes. And it's like I don't even know what I'm doing.
Is Fred Armisen impression of Joe Bay'ah, Joy Beilharz, and I know it so well from our friend Nelson, who we worked with on Busy Tonight, like I knew it from the show, but it wasn't like a part of my life. But Nelson would always say it to make me laugh when I'd be like, oh, God, look, I messed this thing up. And he'd always say, someone who gets in. And I just started, like, mentally doing it about everything that I was stressing about, like that was beyond my control to make it like the best or to make it perfect.
And it really works to say, so what who cares f as Fred Armisen doing.
OK, so what? Who cares what? Who cares. It's really helpful. You have to shrug your shoulders. Yeah, you shrug it and then you have to like pick what you've got someone who is somewhat obvious, but really good shout out to Joy. They shout out to Fred Armisen. And also, like I tweeted about it in, some psychologists told me, oh, yeah, that's actually like a psychology technique. It's called something something like official.
I can't remember what it was, but well, somebody will tweeted at us. Don't worry. I'm sure they will.
But anyway, that's what I've been just doing to get through everything saying, so what? Who cares? I love that. That's a motto for fucking twenty twenty if I tell you so what. But I also love like because the way you say so what. Because I would be like so what. Who fucking like what. It's very different. I love it. I love it. I love it. So ok. Yes.
OK, well here's what I'm doing my best but I'm doing my best at you.
Have it written down neck. No crying. I am doing my best crying this week and feeling all my feelings, not letting go of things, letting it all go.
Not like the movie Frozen song from Frozen but just like, just like just moving through these feelings because it's a lot, it's a lot that's happening in my life. There's a lot of changes. There's a lot that's happening in the world. There's a lot that feels overwhelming all the time, all the time. And and on top of it, I've been working. A very large amount that's not about barely a sentence, guys, but I've been working, you know, working a lot.
It's been super long hours. I've been really, really tired. When you're tired, I haven't been eating great. Like because, you know, I think we've gone over this, but like on set covid food is scarce. Like, you can't because you can't eat on set. Right. But if you're on set and you're like and they don't want you to go too far, it's just like there's not I just haven't been. So I'm just trying to pay attention, like asking for what I need today at work.
I guess I got the dairy free broccoli soup, the chicken kiwa quinoa soup and chicken salad and a potato chips bag delivered to me. Yeah. And then went to a place where I could safely take my mask off and eat it. So anyway, but also like I cry, I've been crying a lot and that's OK.
I feel OK about the crying lot and and I'm trying to like organize stuff and take care of Christmas presents and make sure that everybody's got what they need.
And I'm just trying to like. I don't know, just take it oh, I'm trying to focus on the micro, not the macro.
Oh, yeah, what you can actually control the is the thing that really usually ends up making you very upset.
But you can't it's usually bigger than you like the whole picture of, like my life and where I'm going and what I'm doing. And like, I, I don't fucking know, like and I know that that's.
Does feel destabilizing, obviously, but I think we're all just in this sort of collective moment that most of us have that feeling, regardless of whether you just sold the house that you've lived in longer than you've ever lived in any other house, or if you're, you know, in the same place.
But you're like having to quarantine again. And I mean, there's a lot to be hopeful for. The vaccine's showing up. For essential workers, like a lot of people on my Instagram posts of late have been like, wait, what's happening? I've missed it. Where are you? Did you leave L.A. forever? Are you gone like that? A lot of that. And it was really freaking me out. And I have been really upset to say, like, yes, I think I am, you know, whatever.
And then I was like, fuck, I'm I don't know. Who knows, like, first of all.
Who fucking knows, I'm guy. And secondly, selling my house was. A really emotional and difficult thing for me, because my star sign is cancer. I am very attached to my little shells that I move into.
I need them to feel cozy and wonderful and perfect. This morning I woke up early for my call time and I was like, Oh, this is good, because now I'm having somebody drive me because I feel like I was just too fucking tired, like driving those long hours and distances. And now it's like there's going to be snow soon and ice. And I'm like, I'm not going to fucking do that shit, you know what I mean? It's one thing to, like, listen to Tame Impala like a New York City street when it's like sixty degrees out.
It's another thing when you're like trying to deal with, like, icy conditions and.
Yeah. And you've also lived in L.A. for the last 20 years. Like, I didn't grow up driving in snow. Yeah. Like it's it's different. Like your whole life drive. Yeah. And it's like I could drive in a hurricane driving the snow. I can drive it rain too. I'm really good at driving and like crazy torrential downpours. Yeah. Here's the other thing I'm going to say. Maybe controversial. I don't care. I've spent the last few months driving in New York now.
Mm hmm. I think people in L.A. are kind of better drivers, huh?
Well, people L.A. people in L.A. are horrible drivers. Yeah, but and that's but that's I'm like this. I'm saying people in New York are terrible fucking drivers. It's like everyone is looking for a sign that is very small that they need to read at all times.
That's what it feels like they are. They are but busy. I do want to point out something. You're driving right now and I know nineteen eighty two New York.
No, I know, I know. Four hundred out over four hundred thousand people have left this city.
And I know that it's like business is not back up and running and like blah blah blah.
I get, I know one thing I will say when I moved to L.A., one thing I really missed is that you're getting driven by a person. But most people who work and live in New York City, they take the subway, they take the commuter train and from the suburbs. And I really missed the time to work, to do things or to read or read is. Yeah, you know, to listen to whatever I want, watch a movie.
So that that is something that like I hope that you enjoy and take advantage of because that's something nobody to do.
And I never read more than when I lived in New York because in Chicago the train was on time. So in New York when we were stuck on the ground, I never finished more books than the two years that I can.
I just like I first of all, I don't know. It's hard for me to kind of do anything in the car because I kind of get carsick.
I can read on a roller coaster, baby. I'm very envious of that. But anyway, also, you have to plan out what you can do in the car.
So, like, if you can, like, make phone calls or oh, I love rolling a call, but, you know, then then Pat has to listen tonight.
Pat really heard me swearing at my mom.
And I think it's like I feel like, you know, you guys, first of all, I'm going to tell you why you're going to fucking back me up. No, I don't swear in front of my mom. I know she and here I get it. But my mom and I have a different kind of relationship.
This is true. She's busy. Don't be such a fucking bitch, you know, like that. I like you guys.
You know this. I wrote about it in my book anyway. No, I know I come from like a very scary name calling family. Yeah. Listen, we try to break patterns. I try to do my best in my own.
Family now, sometimes I do a great job, sometimes I'm not great, my children, I will say Birdie's one of. Her first words was FOK, but but that's funny, I know it was really funny because she used it correctly.
You know, she where we were at the park at Bronson Canyon Park, and she slid off the bottom of the slide and like bonked her butt down onto the, you know, rubber whatever floor.
What is it?
Oh, my God, you guys, what's wrong with me? I literally can't talk. Yes.
Playground and and she slowly got up like she was like, you know, burty like the weight of the world is always, you know, are two to two years old.
And she was like, oh, fuck.
The lady next to me was like, oh, wow. And I was like, well, she said, OK.
But anyway, so so. Oh, so I was at work today and I, my sister kept calling me and I was like, fuck you. My sister knows I'm at work. Lee-Anne we all worked with Leon on Busy tonight. You guys know her well. So like LeAnn knows I'm working, like, why does she keep calling me? It must be there must be something happening, you know? Yeah. So as soon as I had a chance, um, I was actually stepping outside to see if I could call her back.
And the phone rang and it was her again. And I pick it up and I hear this voice go. I am busy and I'm like, oh, my God, Bob, it was little Bob, Bob. It was baby Bob. Bob who does not want to be called baby Bob anymore, but he's always going to be baby Bob, even even when he is forty five years old.
He's going to be baby Bob. Here's the thing. He's a baby. His name is Bob. He's made it up because no matter how old he gets, I will still be this much older than him is baby Bob. When I'm 80 and he's 50, he's the baby Bob, Bob, Bob and baby Bob. Listeners at home is my nephew. He is five years old, newly five.
But he's like a very special person, just like little like sparks. So anyway, I'm like here this tiny voice. I'm like, hello. I don't know. I thought there was a version where my sister was calling me. But no, I was like, Bob, what's going on, buddy? Where are you? And he's like, Oh, I'm just walking around the house.
Oh, I got my mom's phone. She's doing some work.
I'm like, okay, all right. You call. I'm happy I was calling you. I mean, me too. And then he goes he goes are so busy.
Oh, you know how to do the first time.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know how to do the face time.
And he's like, OK, I'm going to hit that button now. So you're going to have to pick up my Firestones, me soak you.
It's just like his forehead and like just so much hair and that's all I could see. And then I heard my and he's like he's like my mom I think is in the bathroom now.
I was like, don't go in there if I'm alone. And then I get early and she's like, what's happening? Give me the phone.
So anyway, so he was telling me she did not know that he had the phone this whole time, but and that he had been calling me a lot. Oh. And then he made me cry because he was like, oh God. I mean, kids, right.
He's like, oh you know what I was thinking about? You're busy. It's like, no, Bob, what were you thinking about? He's like, I stick it up. No, come to your house and I lie a lot, and I was like, oh my God. And then I of course started crying and then I had to go use it in my scene. I had to take that emotion and just use it in the comedy scene with Sarah Birrell's and Renee Elise Goldsberry.
You guys, this is I know this is controversial.
I know you guys don't want to hear this about me at home. Maybe you don't. Maybe you don't want to hear that. I'm a girl in sixth grade called my mom a fucking bitch.
But you know, one thing, I think that that is I don't know what we talked about this, but like that is also like a white thing. It is, yeah. P.L.C.. Do not swear my mom up. Come up here and shoot me right now and I'd be like, dang, why did you shoot me? I would. I just don't. OK.
OK, my friend Carrie Champion, who, you know, has been on the show, said that, yeah, yeah, she really when she and I were paired together, you know, for the share the mic, share the mike now something anyway.
But when we were paired together and then became BFW and I love her so much and she's so just wonderful and I love her.
She's very cool. Oh God. She's so cool.
She's awesome and she's so beautiful. Just like cool. Oh I just love her.
Not that being beautiful. And she's like, beautiful and she like radiates like. Oh, but she is like high school. She's like a high school person.
Objectively beautiful. Well anyway, when we were trying to do when we were trying to like like pull apart some of the differences between like the way that white women in this country areas in the way that black women in this country raised, that was the thing that she was like really clued into with me.
Like, that was the thing that we like. We're like I was like, you know, every. Why do you like white girls have no respect for their mothers, like it's like a very patriarchal and like and. And disrespectful, a lot of times culture around like mothers and daughters and even just in the way that people, white women talk about moms and daughters, like even on my Instagram, like even like progressive women when they see pictures of my kids or especially Birdie who's older, I'll get these comments that are like, good luck to you.
She's going to turn on you, you know, like that kind of stuff or like in the grocery store or, you know, wherever, like, people will say weird stuff, like pitting me against this child already where it's like, why what why is that predetermined that maybe it's because white women have no respect for any women for for themselves.
Maybe selves. Oh yeah.
Said so like where black women and, you know, young black women see their moms and see what their moms have had to go through.
Well, black culture is very matriarchal. That's that's I think that's white cultural is I mean, the world is patriarchy, but black communities are very patriarchal. And I also think about like Suras, a black woman at 65. Everybody wants to respect them. I don't know what it is. I don't know. But I won't listen to me now. But if my grandma walked into a boardroom at Fizer right now, they were like, we should listen to Miss Louise.
I don't know what it is.
I would I would listen to Miss Louise tell me anything, truly, everybody.
And also, by the way, just I would never swear around Miss Louise. Exactly. It's like but black communities. And I think that the world is so interesting because, like, black grandmothers are, like, synonymous with. But that's also like a trope that goes back to like mammies, like black women have been raising white children forever. So so many white people have respect because they're nannies and they're and they're maids.
And the people who, quote unquote, really help raise them and spend the most of their time with they love like old women p.l.c.. But like, yeah, I can't swear in front of my mama, but yeah, the black. I think that that's the thing. I think that white communities are very patriarchal. You respect old white men and in black communities are very matriarchal. We're always like this to your granddaddy here, fool.
You know, I'm always like I'm always shocked when I like, see it in practice with like because I feel like I've done a lot of work to try to mitigate some of the stuff that was like, ingrained in me. And I, you know, have also in movies, though, I mean, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. Like Lady Bird, white people, little fucking Lady Bird, Lady Bird. It's literally just like a bunch of white girls being like, yeah, that was me and my mom.
And I was like, the fuck it is. Right. That is the way that they are. So even if you we learn how to act in families from television. Right. Even if you're trying to figure out how to treat your mom, if you watch any everybody, Roseanne, Roseanne, like if you watch any of those shows we're taught that like that is how you treat your mom. But like I grew up watching The Cosby Show. All right, Bill.
But that is how you treat a black mom is the way that Phylicia Rashad was.
Definitely how you treat Phylicia Rashad. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I listen, it's interesting because I was like, I don't know, maybe like a year ago I was working with this guy who had written a script. And it was I was reticent because it was a man who had written the script with a female lead.
But anyway, he I met with him. Our friend my friend was a producer. He's like they really he really wants you for this part. I met with him and I read the script. I really liked it.
And then and and then I and I had some notes or whatever, and I was talking to him about it. I'm like, you know, this is hard for me. This is hard for me to work with a man. Like, I'm not in a space, in a space in my life. I want to. But I was he was really receptive and cool and whatever.
And there was one thing that I was like, this is really like a sticking point for me. I really related to so much of the character and this girl that he had written based on whatever his own family experience and like this rage that she had.
But at like sort of like the end and third act, everything's fine, whatever. It's her dad that shows up and like has this moment with her, whatever. And I was like, it's just fucking bullshit. Like, it's it's always it's always written that way.
It's always the dad and all these fucking movies that shows up and like has the like you're going to be OK hito like fuckin knock on the chin like validation to the girl. I was like it needs to be her mom. Make it her fuckin mom, and he was like, I never thought about that, and I was like, Yeah, of course you didn't.
But like, it's literally never the fucking mom in a movie that gets to, like, have that talk with the protagonist of a film at the end where she, you know, and it's that's the thing.
If you see you see a thing long enough. By the way, most of us don't get that talk from our dads either. So then we're just like, really fucking mad.
If you got to talk to your dad, he'd be like, you should go talk to your mom and you just don't talk to anybody.
Yeah, it's complicated. I think there's a lot of complicated shit going on with white women. We talk about toxic masculinity, tons. But I also think that there's like. Toxic femininity, that's not the right now. It's not the femininity, though, it's not the inherent.
Yes, but there's something going on with white women that we need to unpack.
Well, it's like it's like privilege, right. And upholding of a thing that gives them some amount of power. And it's the fact that because of toxic masculinity, white women have been subjugated in a way. And so then the only way that they feel this is like power is by yes.
That's all rooted in white supremacy and that's all rooted in fuckin white supremacy.
And we got to burn it, burn, burn, burn it down. We have to burn that to the ground.
But like also very interested in the idea of like non gender conforming and like non binary now and like how we've talked about this a little bit, but like just the idea it was in its onset.
But I would say, like, I don't know, maybe a decade ago or a little bit less than a decade ago when I'd say three or four years ago, OK, I mean, I got my first friend who was gender nonconforming.
Right. Gender nonconforming.
Right. There were different words. Yes. The actual words. You're correct. You're correct.
Because I had friends who were trans back earlier than that. But this is like gender nonconforming is a different thing. Right. Right, right. Yes. And a lot of times I felt like when I first heard about gender nonconforming people were talking about the way they dressed as opposed to how they identify.
Correct. They'd be like, oh, like they like to dress like gender nonconforming. And I'd be like, that girl is wearing a suit. Oh, yeah. That's not that's not. Yeah, that's style choice, I guess. But like a lot of times we associate it with the way that they presented their clothing as opposed to how they identify. And I think for me in the last, like I want to say, right around the time I left Chicago, maybe 2016, 2017, I started meeting more people who identified as non binary.
And also like that didn't just mean they like dressed androgynous gray quote. So like, yeah, I think for me, like and I think I'm in a pretty progressive group of hipster fucking comedians, but I think it's new to me.
Yeah. A major city. That's right. Yeah. I mean, it is fairly new, but I think now I've sort of come to really think about how when we talk about like smashing white supremacy and the patriarchy, one of the things that we really should be discussing is smashing gender because yeah, the binary for sure, the binary is just like, that's it, man.
And it never fucking occurred to me in a weird in the weirdest way, maybe just because I'm old, I don't fucking know. I don't know.
I mean, like I try to keep my mouth shut about certain things because like I'm always learning. So like white supremacy, black women, queerness, I'll talk about it. But like I'll never forget I, I like saw this thing on Twitter the hell scape that it is. And it was like an orange, just like orange that had been peeled and put in Whole Foods. And you know how they like where you put produce is like the green Styrofoam with plastic over it.
And it was like peeled oranges and somebody took a picture of it in Whole Foods and was like, come on, Whole Foods. Like everyone's not that lazy. And I was like, Really? Remember this? And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And then someone was like, I like don't have my left hand right. And I was like. I was like, oh, God damn, drag a bitch. And it was one of those things where, like, obviously, like, I am not disabled, I but I would have never thought of that.
But as one of those things when I saw it, I was like, I am not the smartest person. Right. I'm pretty smart. But one of the things about being smart is to know when you're not the smartest person.
So that's it. Wait, that's your Oprah moment? I say that all the time. Say it again. Say it again. Say it again. It's like, what are the biggest smart person is knowing that you're not the smartest guy. So one of the things about being a smart person is knowing that you're not the smartest person. Yes. So, like, I saw that and in my head I was like, there is somebody at Whole Foods whose whole job is to know why you should have an orange that is peeled and put it in the store.
And I am not that bitch. So then when that girl was like, I don't have my left hand, I was like, and that is why I shut the fuck up and I wait till I learn more.
You said such a smart thing. You don't hear about being smart by knowing that you're not the smartest person.
Also another thing is everybody fucks up. Everybody fucks up. Like we were just saying, you see that peeled orange and you're like, oh, come on. But when you fuck up like that and someone pointed out to you that like you had a spot where you weren't seeing the whole picture, just not doubling down is. Yeah. A huge and just being like, oh, I got it. Thank you for pointing that out to me. That's it.
Because doubling down is like the worst character down is just so fucking annoying.
And it's only something that you should do if you've been married for a really long time, are exhausted and you just want to fucking win and you're just an adult.
They're just a bunch of bullshit that you don't even believe. You're just like, fuck you. I know I'm right. Fuck you. I'm sorry that I swear so much. Sorry.
No, I love I never has anyone ever doubled down with you and like, really strongly. And then later just straight up admitted that they were just doing it and they don't even know why they were doing it.
Because that's all I have. I have done. I have done that.
But but Mark doubles down. I'm talking quietly. He just brought me another margarita. So he was like, Mark doubles down a lot and he is not right, you know?
And my favorite thing, because Mark is probably like the smartest, you know, he's like like he's, you know, one of those fucking people.
I am I always liked to say this was what I always said G.A. I always said sort of like the inverse, kind of I always would say, I'm just smart enough to know that I'm not quite smart enough to get it. Yeah, right. And I also I'm just smart enough to know that I should surround myself with people that are smarter.
Yeah, I know when I'm right, but I don't I mean, sometimes I know when something is wrong, but I don't know why.
And that's when I keep my mouth shut. I swear to God I only learned that the hard way because I was like absent mindedly scrolling like two years ago or something. And I like liked some Justin Bieber tweet that then he was like dragging Taylor Swift. I don't even know what the fuck what it was. And I was like, oh, shit. I was like I just thought he was cute. Like, he was just like a cute kid with cute Taylor Swift.
Those kids I don't read the fucking, you know, monologue that he wrote because who's got to pay for that shit? Nobody. Right. And then I was like, oh, no. But it was some controversial thing. And then I just went on hard.
It it was kind of like a perfect example of like not here we go.
Here we go. All the. Do you remember the Jesse Smollett thing? When we had an opinion on it and like, you know, and right away, I just felt like whatever happened to him and whatever is happening to him, I feel bad for him as a person, for whatever is happening.
But nobody ever knew the whole story. Nobody still knows the whole story.
But so many people came out at every step of that story saying, like, I know what happened here. And I was just like, I'm I'm going to observe.
I'm not saying shit. Then it's nothing to do with me. It's tricky. But speaking of which, let's get into some pop culture. Here's why I love Casey so much. I'm going to read this into this thing in its entirety and then we're going to go through it. OK, this is the kind of shit that Casey sends to us before we do the podcast. This was a text. Gmail is down. So possible topics. Gmail has been fucked up.
I hit when something I don't pay for stops working.
OK, it's true.
And Megan signed a podcast deal. Lizzo had to defend herself after going on a 10 day juice cleanse, fuck the haters, questionmark. Lizzo also post about eating Cheetos and gets shit. So what is a girl supposed to do? Really not posed. Question mark, question mark, questionmark.
And then in parentheticals also e the channel had the nerve to use a still from busy tonight with Lizzo drinking that giant juice box we gave her on Twitter today. But NERV which by the way yeah. Fuck them both.
But also implying that the juice box was somehow part of the juice cleanse when it was straight to keep Akela our fucking blasted that day.
OK, Meghan McCain had her baby in September and named her Liberty. How did we miss that? I guess we were worried about other things. I totally missed that. That's wild. That being said, Meghan McCain needs to step the fuck down about her views on abortion.
Happy for you and your baby. Meghan, I'm glad you had the choice. Oh, no, because also she was like she was like propagating like like weird shit about third trimester abortions. That's just like that's just like the bullshit that the Republicans are, like, grasping at now when in actuality. But a judge, our new secretary of transportation. Well, you guys see that it's going to be officially nominated.
He's been nominated to be confirmed by that. He's going to be confirmed and we're going to a judge.
He's the most Republican Democrat we have and he's gay. I love his husband.
I love them all. Chaston Chaz. I call him Chaz. Yeah, Chaz. But Judge, I love him. He seems very Chatterley and adorable. And they're very good friends with Mandy Moore. Oh, I mean, that's what I know. I was also a delight. Mandy doesn't like people who aren't delightful.
No, she's chill and she's a delight. Yeah. And the judges seem delightful as well.
Anyway, I think he's going to be a great secretary of transportation.
I didn't even know the secretary job, other languages.
Did you see Amy Klobuchar is like congratulations. And it was so shady because she was like, I'm sure you'll bring your local government experience if you like Amy Klobuchar.
I mean, that is a real Debbie Downer if I've ever heard one Klobuchar. OK, Meghan McCain had her baby. OK, we got that. Oh, no. Oh, no. The viral Fleetwood Mac skateboarder tested positive for covid because he's been doing a lot of traveling since he gained fame from going viral. Dang it. He thinks he got it in L.A. where he was working on several projects for a month after getting engaged in Vegas, he flew from his home in Idaho to L.A. and it was his first time on a plane.
What the fuck? First of all, first of all, there's too much happening. No one else is very bad. But the audacity to go be like, I got it in L.A. after I left Vegas.
Fuck this. Oh, come down this. It's a Bush that is some you got some fucking options here. OK, also after you wrote on the plane, L.A. is bad, but you got that's three right there. That could be so it's just a lot of a lot of it. It's just like a telescoping thing because like he got he went viral for doing that video with the cranberry juice to dreams because people were feeling very cooped up in that video, felt so free to, like, made everybody feel like freedom for a second.
And so that's why he got famous, is because we're all trapped in our houses trying not to die. And then he just got on a plane and got sick.
Well, I hope he's OK. Meet him. Know Kirk Cameron hosted a big public Christmas caroling event in Thousand Oaks, despite California regulations against that kind of thing right now. He was great in that Rapture movie. Now, maybe he'll get to experience something similar in real life. Casey, what I just say, here's what I want to say.
You whisper to me business.
You know, who's been popping up so much on my Explorer page is Candace Cameron. Like all the time on my Explorer page, well, it's because it's Hallmark's season, she's the Hallmark bitch.
Well, also also there's a weird thing that I feel about her that she is the, like, super religious version of me.
I was just going to say I was just got a vision of you trying to dethrone her. I know, Mark, bitch. I know.
Like, if Weller ever gets to be a spice, like a slightly spicier channel than Hallmark, like you could definitely start.
But you know what I'm going to say, Casey, well enough with, like white girls getting their Christmas fucking dreams coming true. I don't care.
You know, I mean, it's all the same.
I don't I'm not going to lie. If I did I did download the Hallmark app for five ninety nine so I could watch the movies over over Christmas because I enjoy them, because there's a bunch of there's like a bunch of black ones and well that's what I like all but they all star Vivica Fox and I think that's fine. I like that.
I love them because if you can think of a word and put Christmas before there's a movie, it's like the Christmas Island, the Christmas table, the Christmas computer, the Christmas refrigerator, the Christmas car. And it's like everything is like a husband for Christmas, uncle for Christmas, a dad for Christmas, a mom for a baby for Christmas. There's one of those to a baby for Christmas, my friend.
I'm always there from the thrilling Adventure Hour has done a lot of those Hallmark movies, too. Yeah, she's adorable and I would like to watch her do anything.
She's great. But our friend, our friend Nelson and I tried to write one of those Christmas movies we wrote.
We started one called It's Christmas Carol that I would grant that one.
I would star in that one, but was about it was about a Hallmark movie actress, actress me became disillusioned. That's the holiday of Christmas that we're doing it.
We've already shot it, guys. It's done. Except it's done. We already shot it.
And I swear to God, if you're out there and you fucking steal that, I'd never forgive you, Candace Cameron, to her pitching it. Listen, not the first time another blonde has stolen my shit, all right?
Can't be gave off that a six hundred thousand dollar lembo for his twenty ninth birthday.
You know what I got from my twenty ninth birthday?
A baby named Birdie. She was great. Definitely worth six hundred thousand dollars. I think it's a lot of I think she has a lot of money and obviously, like, I don't want to buy a car that comes that much money, but also like fucking Seipel has forty fucking car that Jay Leno has like logit forty seven hundred ten dollars worth of cars like white men have been buying stupid, useless, expensive shit since the beginning of time. I don't love the like celebrity culture of scrutinizing spending of of and it's always like specifically black celebrities.
Yeah. When fucking Jay Leno's stupid ass fucking dumb fucking Ford from nineteen twelve or whatever he's like to toot in around Burbank, it's like that's like seven million dollars like. Yeah. You know, where's the outrage for that. Like if Sufjan Stevens was like about a six hundred thousand dollar Carl Lewis. Sufjan Stevens. I said Sufjan is it how you say it dear. I thought you just said Sufjan Stevens. I was like Sufjan Stevens. Oh so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know if you can if Snoop Dogg bought a fucking car, but here you were. I do think you should call him Snoop John. What did Berty know. It was was a cricket.
One of them cricket came home and she was like, yeah. So well learning that new Shakespeare's play is really weird.
I don't know what it's about. I was like, who? It's a play by Jake Spears', Jake Spears'. And she's like, Yeah, Jake Speedo's. Ever heard of them?
Well, not to make it about me, but busy.
You were going to say, tell me something that. Oh yeah. Oh that. Well, yeah.
That you sent us because I just loved it. You send your kids up at not to make this about me, but you were go tell me about what? I've got it.
I got it. I love. OK. The other thing was maybe you saw my Instagram, but you figure it out. How to send me the nachos from petty cash in L.A., and it was like the nicest, most thoughtful gift of all time and I loved it so much. So you've done so well this week at, like, doing lots of different jobs, some which you like so much you don't like. But then additionally, being a really good friend who's like, thoughtful and like it was just such a nice thing.
And it arrived on the day when the whatever sale was recorded in L.A. County or whatever the fuck they do, I don't even know. And the house is no longer ours. And I cried so hard, so hard eating the nachos and.
I really did it. It was just really nice and the nicest Christmas present. Anyway, so you're a really good friend who's really thoughtful and you make really funny pop culture lists of things that we could do, topics we could go over with your own added snark.
Well, here's what I want to say, is that I don't even know if petty cash like that's not a thing that they do know it, do they not?
They should also they should be absolutely 100 percent sure, because I think I've already sold them out. But what I was going to say is that I just was like, let me just take a shot at, like, you know, like I was thinking, like, can I get them and send them myself? That's probably not a great idea because I'm not an expert and like food handling or whatever. So I just sent an email like to the manager at Petty Cash saying, like, here's a thing that I want to do.
Is that something that you could ever do?
And like they really the Kanae and Chef Walter at Pedicabs really jumped through like a thousand hoops to send you to trays of nachos. And it was because they love you. You know, you've been such a big supporter of their restaurant.
And I kept saying, like, this seems like a lot of work. This seems like. And they you know, they were saying like, no, this is something that we really want to do. We really want to help you do this for Busi, because she's been such an amazing supporter of our restaurant and all restaurants. So it was because of, you know, like I couldn't have done it myself, but because of who you are, people were all too happy to help me do it.
That's really nice. I love that he's a chef, Walter. I love chef. And it's just just like a name. Just like chef like I love Chef Walter.
They are the best. Yeah.
They're just really, really nice people.
So if you're in L.A. and you've never been to petty cash or if you're coming to L.A. because you got famous from a viral video, you get before you get covid, go and get like curbside pick up from petty cash because they are stellar people in the food's great, but the food is great.
And when we were doing here's a thing for you, we were doing busy tonight. Petty cash really became like it was like it was my it was like my go to come for like post show come first. Yeah. I used to like to go there and we would have nachos and margaritas and uh and and here's the thing that people are always like, what the fuck are you talking about. So they invented a thing about petty cash. These like roasted cauliflower and kale nachos.
And people will say to you, get the fuck out of here when you are really good.
And I mean, they are. They are. First of all, it's not like it's not health food. Let's not get crazy now, you know, I mean, this is these are nachos that would make anyone proud. It's what it's like legit. Anyone who I've turned on to these nachos, I mean, Ashley, Nicole Black and Chelsea. Was that for your birthday?
That was for my birthday. Yeah. Neither one of them had them yet.
I don't think so. No, they had it. And I sort of forced it on everyone.
They're really good. Thank you.
Mark just brought probably peppermint ice cream because I'm crying and I texted him peppermint ice cream. Questionmark.
Oh. You didn't know I was crying, you just did it anyway. My I love this is the best time of year, though, for peppermint ice cream.
It truly is. I don't know if I have enough, but I mean, they're fine. These kids get everything they fucking want.
But, like, I don't know if I have a good Christmas presents for these kids, like, I don't think I got them.
What do they want?
Oh, Larry Possley, last night, it was being so sweet to me after work. And I was just like, oh, God, I just fucking love this kid anyway. I got pretty. The best presents I really did, but and so I kind of have this thing last night where I realized, like, I have gotten Burty because, like, really great presents. I want to say what they are.
Kacie Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to spoil it. I don't wanna spoil it anyway. But last night, I was like kind of feeling guilty, like I've gone for cricketer's, looks like stuffed animals and shit, like, what am I getting this kid? And so I was putting her to bed. I was so tired after work. I was like, baby, listen, I really want to get you something like really special and sweet just from mama.
Is there anything that you like, really want of Astor, her to make Christmas lists, she's just like not interested or whatever, and she's like, Oh, Mama, I can't make this shit up. She looks at me and she's like, Oh, Mama.
You know me. But anything that you get me, I will love, and then I was like, you also are like, Yeah, but could you make me a list creeky, please God please.
Yeah. Yeah. But like but like what do you want. Oh my God.
No, I don't know what to get her. What do you get. I don't know. Like a unicorn to get her in the tendo switch.
I don't know what to do.
It's always it's, it's such a crapshoot because you're always trying to think of like what would be the perfect thing. And it's always like the the goofiest thing that you get somebody that winds up being their favorite thing. One year I got my son because he said I don't know why he just put that he wanted a pizza on his, but he wouldn't want to himself. Yeah, he wanted that's important pizza. So I just got him some pizza. One year Lincoln asked for pickles and he got a giant jar of pickles from Costco.
Wow. Now you're speaking my language. He is. He is my son.
So like when my grandma used to send presents to me and my sister, you'll have to open them the exact same time.
So it was like, do you remember that?
Like, did you guys ever have that experience where, like, my parents, like you have to open it the exact same time?
Like, I know, I know it's pyjamas going nowhere about Leon and I were both opening up pajamas. It's going to be fine.
When I was I was an only child, so I never had that experience of opening it.
Because you both are only children. Now, you guys, this is my fucking pattern in life. You know, I only surround myself with only children, but I had a bunch of cousins, so we were I never open presents by myself.
I never, like, walked on like there was always a million cousins at our house constantly. Yeah.
I had some cousins, not a million, but in my house it was always tradition to like allow me to open one gift. On Christmas Eve.
I wanted to go back to quell the excitement.
But one year my mom like, I don't know, she just decided it'd be funny to be like, no, you can't this year because you're like getting older. You're not a baby. You don't need to open a gift.
And I was like, lost my mind and I need you to let me go. And she was like she was like, now, now just wait till tomorrow. And then I was like, let me just open that one from Ann-Margaret. And that's like she was like, I mean, no. And I was like, I probably already know what it is. And she was like, what do you think it is? And I was like, it's probably like a necklace.
My mom was like, Yeah, but what kind of necklace?
And I was like, it's probably like an owl necklace.
And then my mom was like, It is. Go ahead. What I. Well, you just switched it up. I just I mean, just if you knew my aunt, my friend, it was an easily solvable mystery, just like I used to try to avoid. I could you know, you shake them and if they don't make any noise, it's close. Yeah. When I was younger, my aunt and they would they were hip to the game.
So I would like pick it up and I shake it and I put it down and they'd be like, you got to open that, because when I would open close, they were just like they would make me try them on.
So it was just like really interrupting me, trying to get like a fucking Craig David CD. If I had to go upstairs and put on the pants you bought me, so I'd be like shaking like that. Why did she tell you that, knowing.
Well, that only me did you guys when you open your title try. Yeah. Always have to try.
Oh it was just like I was like I know that there are to see these in here that I asked for and the sooner I get them the sooner I can put them in my 3D studio changed from last year.
Please let me find my great city and then when the thing doesn't fit and then they're like and then you're like, it doesn't fit like now come shubhangi. Yeah, you have to come out and they're like now. Yeah. You like it doesn't fit. You're just trying to say that you probably didn't even try it on. Did we all have the same goddamn parents. We, I feel like that did happen to me and I've blocked it out. Yeah.
Like now you're having and it feels very reminiscent. It happens to everyone. It's in like a Christmas in the Christmas Story movie.
What is that. What's your Christmas movie?
Santara I really like the Christmas story because it came on 24 hours. Wait, is it OK? But like, I think it's generally it's sort of generational. Like everybody has different ones that like they watch all the time. You know, it was like elf like for like kids and like, like these kids probably elf right.
Link Lincoln and I share the same favorite Christmas movie, which is It's a Wonderful Life.
Oh yeah. That's a good movie. But am I wrong. All right. It's long. It's long.
We like it for different reasons. I don't know why Lincoln likes it, but I like it because Jimmy Stewart is so hot.
I am not yeah, I only have a crushes on dead guys, you know who else I fucking get real.
Hard for that's not that's not the way you know that. That's right. That's right. That's right. You get you get wide for someone you know. I don't get why heard, you know, everybody before, but I really narrow that vagina.
I have a really short I have a tiny vagina. I know it's incongruous to how big my mouth is.
I get it. I'm a loud person. Tiny vagina anyway.
Tiny vagina and old Al Pacino. Like you like like not old. Wait, wait.
Fact in the late, early. All young. Yeah, yeah. Like 1971. Al Pacino. I'm like I would. Yes I want to fuck that. I can see it.
Oh he says that. And that's the end of the podcast you guys.
I think we actually have a whole other part to go. We do. Who is it. Who would we talk to.
We talk to your friend Zoe Lister Jones, which it was just announced today, and then she's going to talk about it. And she was like, can I talk about this? Yes, she can.
The movie that she made in Core that she didn't ask me to be in, whatever, it's fine.
But I do love it. I didn't bring that up. But now I am. I'm such an asshole anyway.
A, you're drunk. And B, it wasn't you weren't part of her pod. I could have been one of those people six feet apart. You could.
I'm not going to be good enough. But the movie got into Sundance. Congratulations to my friend Zoe Lister Jones and her husband, Daryl.
Let's listen to our talk with Zoe.
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Guys, we are thrilled to be joined. By a real multi hyphenate. Since the start, really, you just came in guns blazing, multi hyphenating it up, and I mean, my last name has an actual hyphen, so it looks right like I had no choice. You had no choice.
You're a multi hyphenate from birth.
Yeah, well, Zoe. OK, first of all, thank you for doing this.
Secondly, I've known you for a very long time.
Mm hmm. I know I was trying to think about that. This Mortell, like we met through atrocity. Correct. Grizzly bears at Drozd, everyone. To whom was it at that dinner? Was it a dinner party? And Solange was there was at that dinner party, that really pretty house. It was like a pretty house that. No, actually, potentially I felt I could just skip over a salad. I was she performing? Was she hanging out?
No, no, no. We were just friends with her. Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't consider myself a friend of hers. I would like to. I was either. But I pretend like I am still to this day. I was like we had dinner together once 12 years ago and we're friends.
We also and we're not this podcast is not just gonna be about interest, but he had like a a country home where he would invite his friends to. There's always like the specter of Jay-Z and Beyonce. They might come.
Yes. And the helicopter, huh. And helicopter that circled back was that, you know, what were you on that trip?
So, like, we were like all so excited that there was a helicopter that circled that and it couldn't land, but it was like there they were so close I, I was so close. Oh, Mark. Yeah.
Well, one year we when we went to Coachella and Solange was playing, this was not that long ago and I saw we saw her she but she was still with Alan. So it was however long ago that was we saw her and Alan and I was like, oh, we'll go. So we'll just walk over and go say, hi, I'm Mark. And I started to walk up to them and we were fully blocked. And I was like, oh oh oh oh oh shit.
Right? I was like, I forgot. I'm corrected. I'm like, we are not friends.
No, I was like, wait, I know, I know them. And then he i because then I was like, well now I'm going to get in.
Like I couldn't deal with being stopped by the security guard because I knew I also I know what Mark and I look like, you know, two people that are twenty years too old to be young. And I was like, no, we know them.
And so the security guard, I think, got Alan's attention.
And and I was like and he was a busy mark.
I was like, OK, yes, great. Great. That's what I like the ending of this. Yeah, it was great. And I have gone so bad I could have gone really badly. And then I saw and then I and then we talked with them for a bit. But yeah. I mean so I'm is truly a dream, but I do think that's the dinner party we met at.
OK, so Zooey, first of all, congratulations on the craft.
Thank you. Oh yeah.
So listeners, let's just go through it. I'll do this in the little thing before we even get to you. But like you may know, Zoe Sturgeons as an actor, Life in Pieces was a big hit show.
Lots of people were heartbroken when that show did not end up coming back, including you.
I know a little bit. Yeah. You really liked it. You I love having a job. Yeah, I know we did. And of course, like there was this was another, like, deep connection between you and I. Is that then my TV husband was Colin Hanks. And obviously, you know, he was he was he was your college husband. Was your college your your real life college was just for all intents and purposes, my starter marriage, you know, just without the marriage part.
Yes, I know. And so and we. Yes. And in your first, like, big network TV show was with Whitney Cummings, good friend of mine. Yes. You always, as I started off by saying you always have been a multi hyphenate. So you had written co-written things, written things before for yourself to be in.
You had produced things and then you during life and pieces, put together a movie that you wrote and we're going to star in and you directed it, which is fantastic. And if you guys haven't seen Band-Aid, I'm sure you got a lot of time on your hands right now.
Guys, there's another spike. Where is it streaming, Zoe? Everywhere. I don't know how it's.
Yeah, it's on iTunes. That's what I go to. I don't know. I there's too many platforms to I don't figure out where things are. I just go to the little like the little magnifying glass and type it out and just type. Yeah.
To say Siri and then like see where she brings back where Siri watchband but. And it's an incredible movie, which also you managed to fold in another one of your hyphens, which is musician goofily, you are a musician in it without a.
And then this opportunity showed up for Zoe to write and direct the craft or reboot the classic ah, we call it is later.
It is a sequel. But I feel like before it was like released, I didn't want to call it that because I wanted the sequel ness to be on the down low.
But like a sequel 30 years later, is it really a secret? Not know. I always say it's like a reimagining, but it does, it does take place in the same universe.
Right. And so that movie I'm sure you all have seen, because it was a huge hit and it came out right before Halloween.
But if you have it again, hopeful, you're going to be spending a lot of time in your house and not at fucking parties, guys, in the next several weeks being so it should be so.
But also like this is that time of year, right after Thanksgiving, where everyone's done like you got stuff to do. But like, you know, we done right.
The on Friday afternoon. Yeah. I'll just kind of like what should we do this in two weeks where everyone is actually done. So you can watch the movie. All Yeah.
Yeah. Great. I love your work from Home Depot. Yeah. You're like, oh sorry. I'm in a meeting at. Yeah.
Oh by the way, we all need to harness all of our wittiness so there's a lot I put on my which. Oh my God. So we not there's no shade at all. I totally forgot we were doing the podcast today. This is that's just typical for me on a that's like truly for the cause that you're doing your best.
You're really doing your really.
And I put on my little witch medallion today. Oh my God.
Is that weird that it's a little medallion that one of the Eric in one of the producers on. Did he get it or did you get it. No, Eric gave them got it for you.
And I was busy, busy. And I would always say, like we're witches and that's like something that kind of, you know, not to scare people because it does scare people sometimes. That is like probably what I most ascribe to. But busy has all of these magical. Properties as a person, but I would say, like we we would say, like this is going to happen and, you know, and we're like putting our intentions out there and then it would happen.
And then we always talked about how we needed a third, which and Eric Power three will set you free. Yes, that's right.
Eric Gorian desperately wanted to be the third, which and I would just I would just scream at him, you're not a witch.
And he'd be like, OK, but like, think about it. Anyway, I put on my witch medallion today. So there were if I. Vanegas Oh my goodness. Yeah, well. Which I feel like yeah. We've, we've needed which survived for a long time, but now more than ever.
Listen, I want to talk about Pivot's with you Zoe. But wait but I also want to know if anything which happened while you guys were filming and if you felt the power.
Yes. OK, well know all you things.
OK, well, we had three real witches who were our consultants, which consoles fantasy consultants, which is a job.
You know what I like about the way she does not fuck around? Well, you shouldn't fuck around without you don't want to fuck around, which is you should know I had no interest in fucking around. And I and I also wanted to, like, create a movie that was, I don't know, like respectful of the witchcraft community and that was representative of witchcraft traditions of yore, but also contemporary, you know, witchcraft traditions. And so, yeah, we had these three rad witches so and so that that was the coolest.
And Pam Grossman, who's a she wrote a book, actually, if anyone listening to interested in witchcraft called Wakhan the Witch, which is like this amazing company. I am. I want a story. You got to you got to read it. It's amazing. And she wrote all the spells in the film. And so, like, I definitely she couldn't be on sex. We shot it in Toronto, but we had a Canadian witch named Aaron Froogle.
So it's really we had a Canadian which. Yeah, we are lucky to have one. Yeah. Very polite. Which and she and so she was like there to make sure that we were doing everything correctly and the ritual ritual objects were being used correctly. But she was also there to like actually close the circle at the beginning of the day and open the circle at the end of the day so that like whatever we were conjuring, however unconsciously, with these spells and rituals, even though, like Pam, I think said, what did she say?
She said, Magic does know you're making a movie, which I love.
I really believe I really believe in like you have to, especially when you're working. In this industry, we're like things get so blurred so frequently, you have to acknowledge it because if you don't, then things get real weird.
They can get real. Yeah, OK. So she would like protect you guys to protect us. And and we did have to have her come. At one point we shot David. The company is in the film. He plays sort of like the patriarch and yeah, he's the best. And I feel like you could be his daughter.
Oh, interesting, you say it, I'll take it. Yeah, yeah, draglines, I would like to be like I like, yeah, I'll take it.
He does feel like family to me. I really do adore him.
But he could be you could be Mulder and Scully, his daughter. Oh, that's it. Oh my God. That's it. That was coming to say it but I felt like it was self-command. Had to come to me. Had to come after they had to come from you and I and I appreciate you, but yeah.
But I said that's all they both have strong jawline, strong strong jaws still still stands.
And is that I'm gonna get to the scary stuff. But is it Gillion or Gillian. Gillian Anderson. Gillian. Gillian, it's Jill. Well it's really hard. It's Gillian. Gillian, as you said, Gillian. Gillian Jacobs. Jill Jacobs.
She's a real gift Geoff situation.
Yeah, but it's Jacob's really fucked everything up for me because now I'm like, is your name pronounced weird too? Anyway, Gillian Anderson, I just want to say she's aging in reverse. And whatever she's doing, I'd like to know because she's like the most beautiful. She's always been the most beautiful.
But like as she ages, she becomes so much more even more when white people Monday business they age appropriate. She is not at her best. That's right. She is an agent. That's right. And when you fuck it up, you look like shit. Everybody hates that. Looks like they're literally melting. That's not true.
Mind your business. You don't look well.
OK, so anyway, so we're in we're in the set that David Decarbonize character lives in. And it's like an old mansion. It's very beautiful. But when we when we did our like tech scout, like with the crew to check it out, my DP who it's funny, like I work with my DP, Hilary Sparrow. She's amazing on Bandit as well. But until you work on like a witch movie, you don't you don't learn that basically so many people, you know, are like witches.
Do you know what I mean? Like where and and and and which is a category that I think I was really interested in exploring in this film that like it it defies, you know, the sort of paradigm that most people think of. But we're all sort of witches in our own way. And so she was I didn't know that she had an intuitive gift. And so she was she walked into the house just during this text. I was like, oh, and I was like, what's up?
Like, not enough light, you know? Or like, what? What are you feeling? And she was like, no, there's just an energy in here that I think we're going to be fine. It's not malicious. It's just intense. And I was like, I'm going to ignore everything you just said because I can't take that on right now. And so we we went through with filming there and I sort of like forgot that and willfully forgot that.
And then when we started shooting there, everyone started complaining of different sort of things that they were feeling that they couldn't explain, like, oh, my God. And this is like like Toronto sort of like dude crew, you know, like not people who are like, I feel funny in my tummy. Like they were like but they were a lot of people are talking about like a weight on their chest that they were feeling or feeling sort of short of breath.
The lights would turn on and off and classic. That's a classic. It's a classic. It's the classic. What's up? And then and then ah. The craziest thing was our lead actress, Kelly Spinney, who's amazing. She was in her holding area, which was like in the attic, sorry. And and so she like came down to shoot a scene and she left her phone in her holding area and she locked it, you know, like whatever.
And then came downstairs. And when she went back upstairs, her phone, she unlocked it. And there was a photo that had been taken on her phone that was of an orb. It looked like the inside of an eyeball almost. And she was like, what the fuck? And everyone was feeling this was like sort of the straw that broke the camel's back. So we, like, rang up Canadian, which. Yeah. And Fogo and and she pulled up and she, you know, like before are shooting day and just had like a talking to with the spirits and and then she circled the perimeter of the house with salt, which is a protective measure.
And then and then the next few days like until we were done shooting, it did calm down slightly thing. But at the end of the shoot, the owner of the house came back and I was like, hey, what's the history of this place? And he said it was a hospice and over three hundred people died inside.
Oh, my God. That's going to be a yeah. That's that's your first question. Yeah, that'll be my growing up.
My grandmother lived like literally like you can look out the window and see a graveyard, like that's how close we live. My God. And I really think that we all have kind of felt stuff and been like, yeah, completely, fully ignore that. But what I know growing up is that they will not be ignored. So you better like acknowledge it and you could be like, hey, I'm in here. You got to be chill because like I'm alive.
So like you can't be doing weird stuff to me and they'll be like, OK, bad. But like if you come in and you guys don't talk to them, they'll be like, well I'll just do it that way. Like, yeah, spirits. They're just like us. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just me. So that's been my no it is like experience. Ghosts don't like to be ghosts. Hey.
So, OK, we're here, I'm going to turn this light on, bitch. Yeah, so Zoey, you're you're like, you know, just really I feel like you have really come into your own in all the ways in career wise.
But let's discuss the pivot like you've always struck me in our. Friendship as a person who is like constantly driven and you want to, like, find the next thing and figure out how to do it the best way and figure out how to make it even better than somebody else would do it.
And I just am curious where that comes from.
And B, if it was born out of a feeling that that was a necessity for you or if it was just like.
A thing that is borne in you that you've always been this way. Well, I guess, first of all, thank you for saying all those nice things about me, I guess like both my parents are are visual artists, right. And and I think neither of them, while brilliant, neither of them were ever acknowledged by the art world in the way that I believe they should have been. And so I think the I was really aware of that pain growing up.
And I actually was pretty afraid of becoming an artist because of that. Because of what I saw it like, I understood very well that it was nearly impossible to make a living from art and and that most of that life was heartbreak. And so I think, like when I when I got into Tisch, I got a scholarship to Tisch to be their theater school. And I was like, I don't want to go. And my mom, like, in a funny reversal, because I feel like most parents, like, you know, don't go to school.
She was like, no, do go. But I was I was I always had this sort of fear. So I think once I make a commitment to being an artist, I was like, I cannot fail. Like, I just was like, I have to figure out how to make this work because I think the fear was so great. Of of what? Not even failing because we're always failing upwards or whatever, but or failing downwards or failing in general.
And the heartbreak is inescapable no matter how many successes you might have. But I think I think that was definitely like a big motivating factor for me, was always just like I got to make this thing work, you know? And and I think as an actor, like, right when I graduated from NYU, I had written a one woman show, sort of like Lowell, but I did.
And and I and I like Emma, what's her name from Lowell. And I'm just. Yeah, you're a student from Lala Land. Yeah, that's right. Except for I never fucked Ryan Gosling. Yeah. Like I think also I understood that writing was a way for me to like process how big my feelings were all the time. And I know that we all share we're all deeply feeling people here on this podcast. So proud part of. Yeah, I finally did it.
I'm really a New Yorker, guys.
Last night I broke down and was sobbing on the street and I didn't like I felt like, well, she's here. She's really she really done it.
Now, you always run to the next level when you comfort someone on the street, when you're like ready with tissues and you're ready to be like you're going to be OK, that you know, that me in New York are not friends.
But I do love how much talk about Gillian Anderson, people in New York Monday, mother fucking you get on the train, you sit down and you cry like a motherfucker and they just be like, OK, yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of cities where you got to get in your car. There's a lot of cities where you got to go home and close the door, not New York. So down and cry right here and everybody be like, yeah, this is a good place, it is a good place to grab. Lots of people stepped around because I'm going to say lots of people get a wide berth. So you were saying that writing was a way for you to process your big feelings?
Yeah, there are so many times because making movies is so hard, it's like it's really fucked up and hard. And there have been many times I'm like, I don't want to do that anymore. But then like I'll have, you know, feelings that I don't know what to do with. And so I start to write about them. And it is sort of like the only way I, I know how I compare. I don't have children, but I do.
I've heard from those who do that when you have a baby, you're like, I'm never gonna do that again, because that was so hard, you know, like the pregnancy and labor and all of it. And then you, like, forget and then you have another one, because the only way any second child ever gets born.
Right. That amnesia. Right. And I feel great.
And even though, like, you kind of don't really forget it, like takes the edge off. And then also you have the baby. You have the. That's the thing. Right. So like you're like, oh, I had this thing that's like I didn't think I could go to. And because at the end result is so rewarding in so many ways, I will say. OK, so like when my mom had me, she told them to tie them tubes.
And she did say she said, I did not like that. I will not be doing that again. I love her. Wrap it up. So she didn't wait for that amnesiacs who said if you you got to give it to Dad, I will never forget.
So I will say there's also that there.
But can I ask you, though, like because we are all very, very highly feeling people and a lot of us do put our feelings in our art. Are there particular feelings where you're like, oh, I want to put it in my art to let other people know that, like they're feeling it, too? Like what makes you decide? I always had wondered about bandage A..
Like, if that was a personal story for you, because you don't you you and Daryl haven't had any kids. And like that sort of is what the story I mean, the story of Band-Aid is about a couple who like wants to have a kid, but then she has a miscarriage. And it's really that's really painful for her to go through.
And, you know, you don't have to do not have to answer any of it. But I just was like always curious if you use autobiographical things in your in your stories, in your movie making or. Yes. Like, oh, no, I always do.
And I don't know how not to. And even in something like the craft like I that that project was brought to me where Blumhouse was like, do you want to pitch a take on what you might imagine this this to be and. I it is like an exciting way of channeling when you're talking about, like, witchy shit, but like immediately I sat on my computer and my own teenage trauma was that was like it just poured out of me. It was like my mom.
She raised me on my own, on her own when I was in high school, and she moved me into her boyfriend's house with his three sons. And so we went from this super like sort of divine feminine and feminist space to a pretty toxically masculine space. And it was super traumatic for me. And I had I didn't even realize that was something that I needed to unpack until, wow, I had a script to unpack it within, you know what I mean?
And that's kind of what's what is most exciting about the creative process in that way for me is like with Band-Aid to like because I found I found the process of filmmaking to be so traumatizing in so many ways that I was like, how could I make this fun for myself? And so I started with songs where I was just like, I want to write songs, I want to play songs. And that will create joy. And then as I started writing those songs, I realized what I was actually trying to process, which was, you know, like grief and and trying to understand how couples love through conflict.
And then if it does become super therapeutic and I do I will say that Darryl, my husband and I, the first film that we made was called Breaking Up Words, and that was a movie that Darryl decided to we were in an open relationship when we like we're in our early 20s. You guys have been together for those at home.
I mean, forever.
Yeah, since birth. I was married and now we are we've been together for 16 and a half years. And and so when we were little babies, we were we we were in an open relationship and he started writing about it. And it was such a like it was such a bold and sort of transparent, like a showcase of what we're actually going through. And I was like, can we do that? You know? And we did. And it was really complicated because then we sort of became like spokespeople for non monogamy in a way that I didn't necessarily feel comfortable with.
But but that was the sort of love that it was like the start of the work being also the therapy, like in this weird way. Yeah, I was it was a long, long way of saying I got a lot to work out and there's a hell of a lot more. It's only the beginning.
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I'm not even kidding you. I really do. I really want to. Bev It's five o'clock here you guys. I want to fucking Bev. Where is my Bev. Someone go get me a Bev. I wish that one of you were here. I wish that anyone was here with me. I wish we could go get you a Bev so we can have a Bev together. I wish that it wasn't a global pandemic. I know that is it really hit man.
You guys I love I thought did you guys see where you guys tagged and that a few people have purchased Bev's and stuff? Yeah.
I mean, guys, we're not joking. It is real delightful. It's truly delightful. I like the extra fizzy, sparkling white wine for the holidays because also you can make that into an apple spritz, which is like real delicious and.
The winds, there's rosé that I also love, you know, I love it's a soft block pornography. It was female founded, which I love.
I also love that it's a female first hand wine brand that was founded to change not only the way a product is consumed, but the way an industry and culture have operated for generations, because it's an industry that's almost exclusively masculine. And Bev is breaking norms and creating something from the female perspective that's approachable, fun and consumer centric. Did I just read all of that? Yes. Do I believe it in my core? Yes. I support women who have good ideas and start brands that are amazing.
If Oprah still had her talk show, I guarantee you the women who founded Bev would be guests on an episode like when she had those episodes where it was like Lady is like who changed their lives. I mean, in fact, you know what I'm going to say? Why don't we have these ladies on this podcast? I want to know I want to talk to the Bev ladies. I really do. Therefore, PACs are perfect and the cutest holiday gift for anyone.
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I might have found I might have found the next thing, I feel like you and I should do something together. I went up up in the Hudson Valley. I went to this like antique outdoor antique flea market last month.
There was amazing stuff. But I also was like, I just have a car.
I'm not like, you know, you have to, like, take that shit with you. Yeah, it's there's no like.
So you guys deliver, right, in New York City, like like. No, you're taking the fucking coffee table with you.
So I was like looking around and then the last stop, right as we were going out, I saw these two little hedgehogs and they really like cute mid century clay hedgehog.
I've got to get the fuck and get little patch on add to cart. They're just this, they're this big. And as I was handing them to the woman, this little red book caught my eye and it says my journal nineteen seventy nine, which is the year I was born. And I picked it up and the woman was like, I've been waiting, I've been waiting to see who's going to get it. And I was like, it's me, it's me.
I'm, I'm going to get it. It's I am the one I'm waiting for. I'm the one. And she was like, I'm very curious to see what you'll do with it. There's a lot in there.
And say, wait, can I tell you, because I've been so focused on Girls Fiverr, which is a whole journey. And so I haven't like I have not even cracked it yet, but it is like itching at me and I can't wait and I feel like I'd be real good. I know. I know.
At the beginning of something. Did you have it when when you guys decided to move to L.A.? Was that like a calculated decision? Did that feel like a big dramatic choice? Like what would what was the thing that had you leave?
What was it I like? I was raised in Brooklyn. I really never thought I would leave. And then in acting school, I had. Do you remember do you know Kristen Johnson? You know her anyway, she came like gave like a guest class. I am, yeah. And she was like, don't go to L.A. unless you have a job there. And I took that advice very seriously and I didn't. And so I worked in New York like in theater and indie films and and all the law and order franchises.
Right. I'm sure all of them. All of them. All of them. And then and then I got Whitney and so and Whitney. She came to New York and she was like the first, you know, as we know, it's like I was grinding for so long season where I was just like, am I ever going to get a show? Like, I just was like, it might be it might be a rap on me on TV, you know?
And then and then when you were twenty four, just watched. Just by the way guys, I'm serious how it is. That's when you're like your oldest you've ever been. I know you know I'm twenty eight, I was twenty eight and I had been working seven years and it felt like a long time and like since graduating college and, and then Whitney like really believed in me and and she did all of this amazing shit like she like she was like you need to be on this show.
And when she tested me she paid for me to get my hair dyed red because she had brown hair and they thought that we looked too similar. But this was like before I had gotten a job, you know, like she was like championing me in a way that I had never been champion before. And I got that gig. And so then I moved to L.A. temporarily and then we got to season two and we did the thing that everyone says never to do, which is to like buy a place immediately before season two because you know that you're going to get canceled that next season.
And which we did, we were promptly canceled 13 episodes later. But now I have to say, especially in quarantine and since life in pieces was canceled, I miss New York so much. And I I have a lot of envy for your current situation because I'm like, you just fucking packed it in. You know, we're like, this is what I'm doing now.
This is who I after twenty two years, it's wild.
But how could you move before you got the gig. Right. I had a witchy vibe. I was open. I was very open. But that's my question to you about your writing. Like even with the even with the craft, because that's an assignment job.
You have a break for people like as Zoe said, Blumhouse had the rights to this movie. And a lot of times film companies will have the rights to franchises and they and they put the call out to writers to give their takes, writers and directors. How do you stay open to yourself to letting the stories from whatever it is that you're like, you know, trying to work through come out like. That how do you keep that channel open, just weed or what?
You know, I've never written high, which is crazy because I do smoke weed.
Yeah, you've got you've got me higher than I've ever been. I know that. I do know that. I look past a terrible.
I think that because it's so difficult to write shit and to then direction all that stuff, there's no part of me that wants to do something that is not important to me, you know what I mean? Like. And so and that also is sometimes not a good quality because those jobs are our pay pay really big sometimes.
But you get offered way more shit you don't want to do than you do on it. Yeah.
Yeah. And it is like a question of what what you want to really devote your time and energy to. And so I think like when something like the craft came in, even though it was like in coming and it wasn't and it was like a property and a sort of like container that I had to work within, I was like, oh, I see myself. I know how I can, like, live and breathe in this and how, like, my soul can be free, you know.
What are you working on now? What are you going to do? What are you feeling? Are you going to do an album? What's happening? Zwai what's now what what are we doing?
Daryl and I shot a movie in quarantine, which was crazy. And so that just was accepted into Sundance.
Oh, my God. Wild so that way. Yeah. So that and then and then I have been writing like the beginning of a book and it's not like that's a real pivot because I've never done that. But I like I've always loved creative writing, so I'm trying to sort of like figure out what that means for me. And it's just been like a fun experiment. And I think that is the beauty of this, like, you know, trash fire that has been 20, 20 years that you are able to sort of be like, let me see what this weird endeavor feels like.
You know, I mean, I have to say, like having the craft come out, you must be feeling pretty fucking great because you know what I mean. Like to have something great come out during twenty, twenty years. That's like creatively like that's like a huge win.
I, I also wrote a television series in quarantine that I'm like, you know, now like it's still developing, but it just I think like I was facing like, oh am I addicted to work in a way that is problematic, you know, like oh yeah. Yeah.
I think in some ways like yeah I was going to say you're so prolific. Like even when I was just watching, like I feel like I do a lot of shit, you know, a lot of yeah. I feel like I do a lot.
But I do think I think of you as like the one person who I'm always like, how did you do that, what the fuck, Zoe.
Like I guess I just I'm always like, what, how does that keep churning. Yeah. Oh yeah.
And like at what point does it do you get like a I really do. I really should just break take a break.
Well I have I have breakdowns a lot and I think I like emotional or just like. Well yeah, definitely. And and so I think like that's something that I have had to really look at, like I've been looking at addiction in general in this in this time, because, like, there are so many ways that we use any number of things that all of it necessarily drugs or alcohol, you know what I mean, to numb pain or to avoid things.
And and I was reading a book that was like talking about work addiction, where I was like I didn't realize that was one of the things that are, you know, that if you put if you understand your value to be your productivity, which so many of us do, then when you're not being productive, if you feel really fucking shitty, you know, and how do you face that person and say you're OK? And even what you're watching on Netflix doesn't have to be somehow related to a future project.
You know, like that. Like there's never a moment to just be like I'm just doing this. And I think for women to this is a big thing of like, how do I just follow, like a pleasure principle, you know, great song, great songs like Janet Janet forever. But, you know, like how do I. I've always had a hard time of, like, what will just be fun or what will just be meaningful.
That is not about. Yeah. Like me creating something that then will elevate my career. Know. Yeah. No I mean. We've talked about that, we've all been we have. Yeah, yeah, I've I know Casey really had that thing has really struggled with that this year, especially like your identity being tied to work success and being tied to, like, the projects that you're able to know that you have going or whatever. Yeah.
And and I and I have a hard time with it, too. I always have, though. I knew that that was that was the beginning of my Instagram career.
That's what that breakdown crisis was for me.
Interest. Yeah, but but I think that's really relatable even if you're not in a creative pursuit because that is addiction.
Whether it's like you're using alcohol to disconnect yourself from those feelings or drugs or food or another person or another person person or and I think America overall is probably addicted to just activity.
Yeah. You know what I mean. And which is so weird.
But yes, we are all like, I got to go to soccer, I got to go to Target, I got to go to the coffee shop and wait in line, just like everybody has this program of like kind of meaningless bullshit.
Yes. Yes. Obviously, there are ways that your work or the things that you're that you're doing to keep busy can also be a way to process, as we talked about some of those feelings. But still, it's like a grey area, I guess, of like what the ultimate goal is. And who of us is creating just in a vacuum? Nobody. We're all looking for for some sort of validation or love that we are desperately craving because our inner children are just like I mean, you don't start I mean, we're doing a podcast in the basement.
I mean, I don't fucking know what else.
I'm really looking forward to seeing your quarantine film meeting you.
Yeah, it's it's myself and Kelly Sweeney who is actually the star of the craft. Right. And she was living in L.A. at the time. And, you know, she was 21. And and just I've I've I mean, it's been hard on everybody, but I really do. My heart goes out to like people that age, especially, who are just sort of entering the world and.
Yeah, like late teens. Yeah, I was that all the like seniors in high school, like Cassie's son.
I have a twenty one year old and an eighteen year old. Oh my God.
So you're in it. Right. OK, yeah I get it. Yeah.
I'm making out with weird people and bars and like the next day being like oh god what was that.
That is just so it's, it's so overwhelming. And so we were she basically became like our pod and and we were spending a lot of time together and and we were talking a lot, she and Darryl and I, about our inner children because our most vulnerable little selves who are like who who haven't been paid attention to because of all of the things that we have been talking about, of all the distractions. And so, yeah, it's basically it's it's the last day on Earth.
And Caylee is my younger self. And we are walking the empty streets of Los Angeles, sort of contending with what this day means. And we then are checking off like a list of people that we need to say goodbye to before that, like on our way to the final party, which Whitney Cummings is hosting on his biography autobiography, because that seems like a documentary.
This is yeah, it was basically a documentary.
It's basically like a parallel universe to the one we're living in, which is like an apocalyptic landscape where you are really having to face, like, the hardest questions of your life. So it was super therapeutic, but also really challenging.
That's a real exciting. What are they going to do for Sundance this year? Can you buy tickets like virtually or whatever?
Yeah, well, there will be a there will be a virtual premiere, but then they're also going to do drive ins around the country, which is awesome. And I actually yeah, I haven't been to a drive in yet, but I'm now there.
I hope that becomes like a real norm. I know that movie theaters are Bastar not going to be the same necessarily. And I think that I mean, I'm black, so I don't want to do shit from the fifties, but I do like that.
And they had something there. You know, I'm excited.
I think our driving is going to get the Rose Bowl, which is like I and I I've only been to because I don't partake in any sort of like sports spectatorship. But I have been to the Rose Bowl to see Beyonce. And so that is my only connection to that place. Not worth it. Oh, my God, we've come full circle. We really probably started Beyonce and we came back to Beyonce to be the Rose Bowl. Now, have you had your moment with Beyonce yet?
Have you had a moment with Beyonce yet?
Well, I wouldn't call it a moment, but well, I'll say a couple moments. One is that I went to see her documentary. It's like the first HBO. And we're back to addressee of Grizzly Bear, if we may. And and so she, of course, had, like, hung out with her a bunch. And so we were hanging out at the after party. And so we spoke to Jay-Z. But Queen Bee was like, of course, surrounded by like a lot of people.
So I was like, do we get to talk to her? And Ed sort of like shimmied over and said, hi, I just saw her from afar. But at the Rose Bowl, she did lock eyes with me. And I know that that's true. And and I and I and it was a connection that was like no other connection I've ever had. Right. My Jay-Z story is really embarrassing, which was there was a place in the West Village in New York that used to be like a real spot called the Spotted Pig.
And and I went there one night with Josh Hartnett, don't worry about it. And so Josh was like hanging out with, like, just the most random assortment of celebrities where you were just like, wait, you all hang out together. Like, what is the what is the connection aside from fame? And I don't need a different connection in that. I'm just like I I'm into this. So anyway, Jay-Z was there with, like Gwyneth Paltrow and like like just very not a random pairing, but there were Michael Stipe was there.
It was a really I also saw Michael Stipe once at the Spotted Pig. I just told this story, Ed Burns. It was real like, wow. And. Christie was there as well, obviously, and anyway, and and Daisy was there and I died and and I did and I've had so many stories where I, like, become a complete and total weirdo with, like, a famous person and embarrass myself. But with Jessie, I was trying to talk like I didn't know it was such a small group of people, you know, and I'd never been in that situation before.
And we were like dancing. Gwyneth put a Jay-Z song on which I found uncomfortable. And then as I was leaving, I went up to him and I tapped on the shoulder and I said I said, good night, Sean. No, I don't think that's what they're saying. That's terrible. Why? Because I don't know him that way. What did he say? He was like, good night.
Well, that's amazing. I do love that. Well, I do know from being in soul cycle classes with Jay-Z and Beyonce that that Jay-Z does not mind when his music comes on.
In fact, he enjoys you requested.
I don't know if he realizes it, but he does enjoy it.
It is Michael's real hard. I love my my last Beyonce story was that is that I was at a birthday party that she was at a couple of years ago. And was it addresses.
It was kidding. I'm kidding. No, but and there was a dance floor and I was on it dancing with Darrell. And she and Jay-Z were standing like just like, you know, like the dance floor was like an inch off the ground. There was very little difference with the dance floor on the regular floor. They were standing just off the dance floor, but like within a foot of me. And I felt that I was dancing for them.
And I put a lot of pressure on yourself. When it comes to Beyonce and Sean, I think you got to give yourself a break. I can't. There's no break.
No just living rent free in your head.
You got to say that the days when Jay-Z and Beyonce, they were in those soul cycle classes, everyone worked so fucking hard. And that's her every day.
Yes, except except for your girl who you just doing the same thing I always would do when when my son was little, he went to the daycare at the Rosie O'Donnell Show where I was a writer.
And Destiny's Child came on the show very. Oh, my God. And one day when they were on the show, I went to the nursery to get my son for lunch. And they were like, oh, Destiny's Child came and got him.
And he's on the set with them while they're rehearsing because they like babies. You know, they think it's fun to play with babies. So I just went on the set and saw my son was like a little toddler guy and Beyonce was holding him on her hip. And I was like, hey, but there you are. And she was like, tell mommy what I taught you to say. And then my son said, Beyonce is my fiancee.
That is the greatest story of all time. How do you just let me, like, talk about my fucking drivel when you were sitting on that, please? I was like, I've been in full cycle with that. Come on. You're like she's a godmother to my child, but not really.
But the funniest thing is, like, my like whenever my son would then like when he was in preschool, he'd hear, you know, Beyonce singing and then he'd be like, I kind of know Beyonce. And people would be like, you do not. And I'd be like, well, he hasn't met her. You did have that.
Forty five minutes on her hip and she's iconic. What a truly iconic Wymore.
What a Feliks. I love everybody. Yeah. Listen, I can't thank you enough. I think you should write a movie for Beyonce.
Oh my God. The rest of her.
I'm doing my quarantine if we've cracked it breaking breaking the Beyonce say, hey, you're going to try and drag it starts with you busy at the flea market.
The Journal is hers. Yeah, she is. And she's in the 70s. Yes. Yes, right. I love it. It's a Beyonce a period piece which starts kind of like a never ending story with you in the present.
I love it. I love it so much. You and Fred Savage are at the flea market.
I'm going to be here, I swear to God. I knew you were going to say, Fred, that I swear to God I knew it. And that's why she's a witch, folks, and that I wish it was. All right. Well, I adore you. Zoe Lister Jones, it was such a pleasure to talk to you. And you're a delight. I want to thank you for having a great Wi-Fi connection.
Yeah, and I think anyone's had some of our best sound we've had in a really long while. Yeah, wow, wow. I'll take that. Yeah, I made that connection because twenty twenty is really about connection. You know, it's all about connection of our connection. It was it was such a pleasure and honor to be here today. Thank you for being so prolific. I can't wait to read you. So he's going to is always going to be one of the people that like, you know, they're like just on Twitter.
It got so annoying to me.
When people are like, you don't you shouldn't if you can't write a novel during court, don't feel pressure to do anything.
And I was like, I actually I actually did it all I do.
I made a movie, but I am doing I broke an entire series. I outlined it wrote at Saulteaux, listen, I never make some of a sour dough.
And that's also, you know, it's about I wish that I could know how to do that.
You can buy that. That's right. That you. Bye. I'll just say this all bridge across a thousand dollars.
I can make one loaf of bread, the amount of work that it takes and they sell it for like two dollars. I made some bread. I was like, this should be a hundred million dollars. Like, do we throw this at birds foolish. It's so hard, so much work, we just throw it on the ground. I will never throw a loaf of bread on the ground. God, it's too much work.
So you did make hour. It's OK. It's too hard. It's hard as fuck. But all right.
So we we love you. Bye bye. Bye bye. OK, Zoe, I love Zoe, and I am kidding, I'm not I wasn't I said that I was an astronaut.
I loved how much Beyonce gossip that interview had.
Listen, here's I'm going to say that Zoe and I both love Beyonce. That is true. Everybody does. I mean, who doesn't? And the paper route is correct. Yeah. And everybody who doesn't stop trying to tell people who like her why you don't. We don't fucking care.
Yeah, it's annoying. It's annoying. Knock it off when you don't like Beyonce or magic. Stay the fuck away from me. Oh, my God. I watched the BGS documentary. I heard a classic. I want to watch it this weekend when I'm recovering.
My God. First of all, they're hot. Secondly, well, A&E is the hottest.
The littlest who tragically. All right. But there were some shots of him where I was like that looks exactly like Heath Ledger. Oh yes.
Exactly, exactly. Like I got to do what was so shocking.
He was like he was a baby. And, you know, they show him as like a little kid. And then he started to, like, get famous in his teen years, like he got into the family business. What 17 year old is as hairy as Andy Gibb was? Did you see that?
Well, in the said, at least they made him different. Everybody. Why is that why everybody was so hairy?
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Guys, guys, I have to tell you a story about my show. You're going to love it, OK? So without giving too much away. I did have to do a thing that involved wearing like those kind of like shear but like shiny tights. Yeah. And then like a leotard that was sort of high cut leotard, you know, friends. Yeah, like. Like those ladies. Exactly. And yeah.
Like early 90s. Right. And French cut leotard and those those tights that are like shear all the way up to the waist. So I'm doing this thing and then my the woman who is my standon comes up and she's like. So I think you should just go to the restroom, maybe I feel like. When you do the kick, you can really see some hair. You guys, do you know what is worse than, like pubic hair peeking out of the side of like a leotard or a bathing suit?
It is pubic hair smashed flat against against tights. Like when a robber put pantyhose over their face, they're just like.
And I was like, oh, my fucking God, I've been so horrifying, but also great looking out, great looking out. Thank you. I love you. So that means that you're a good person, because if you were like a like a real bitch, if you're that stand in your life, I'm just going to let that girl I'm just going to let her live her life.
Oh, yes. Yes. Who's about to get a 40 fucking dollar candle for Chris? Let me tell you something anyway. I just tell you, we haven't done a Hollywood break.
Hollywood break. So much of my job in television has been just making sure that someone's vagina does not show right.
Oh, not like. Well on Bravo. Right. You were like on the live at the wives house prices. And do they wear underwear. We don't know. You always know within a minute or two.
My dad still talks about the one woman who came to my wedding who was doing high kicks with no underwear on. So when everybody was drunk. Yeah. And he still talks about it and I never said anything.
He was shocked and like, that's no shade. Like, we all have vaginas. They're all in there.
I love also I anawalt. Well, here's the thing. You had a surprise wedding, so she did not know that she was going to be now. She didn't know she didn't know about the wedding. Did she show up thinking it was a party. Yeah.
Because I thought it was a party.
No, it's just that she was going to show her vagina at a party and not win.
I don't think that makes sense. Oh, my gosh. Well, guys, we did it. We did it. We did another day. That's about a week. A daily hour. We get through it since last week, this might be a little late, it might not. We'll see how it goes. I mean, listen. Life is like. The pubic hair that peeked out of your. It's hard being pressed against the pantyhose that you're wearing and you don't never displaying that you don't need to explain that life is like pubic hair pressed against a leotard.
That's right. Everyone will fucking.
What is that? Is that was actually the original line in Forrest Gump. And then they had there was Robert Zemeckis was like, I feel like this is not relatable.
I don't think America is ready for it yet. He was right. He was right.
He was right. But you know what, America, you're ready for right now is the people doing those fucking bad guys because you all know what I'm talking about.
In any way. G.A. can't wait to see you with your new bod, thanks.
It's very exciting that some of you will be there with you in spirit.
Me and my T spine can't wait.
I'm going to do so good. All right, guys. Well, listen. Is coming, no, Murchison's merchants there, they're already swiped up, you swipe it up you wanted and also thanks to everybody who's been downloading the podcast and like sort of recommending it in their year end recommendations. That's really nice. We got it when Spotify had everyone showing they're like top things that they were listening to. We showed up on a lot of those posts and that was like that blew my mind.
That felt amazing. And I just want to say thank you so much for that. Yeah, me too.
I agree. Now, it's nine o'clock where I am. If you had asked me one minute ago, I would have told you it was midnight.
But every every night at four thirty, I go, it's midnight. It's midnight. It's midnight all the time, I'm sure. And you're listening to this is midnight.
Good night at midnight. I mean, it's permanent, you know. Oh, my God, you guys. Erika Cloud was here because she was doing a thing with Kacey Musgraves. Erika Cloud was my stylist on Busy Tonight, and they were shooting at my studio at Koffman Studios.
And so I know. So, like, they had to get tested and they got the whole thing. But it was crazily last week, my one day off. So when she was leaving work, she was like, this is so lame that like I've been tested and all this stuff. And I was like, well, you want to come over? We can sit in my backyard. It's not too cold. Like we can wear masks and whatever you got tested anyway and whatever.
And she was like. Yeah, actually, you know, we're just like heading back to the hotel and like, can you give me like an hour? I just need to decompress.
And I was like, well, yes, except I just I have a really big day and a really early call tomorrow, so I just don't know, you know, like just make sure you tell me sooner rather than later. And then from across the room. Mark, who had been like sort of listening to me talk to Erica, yells out, Busy.
It's five twenty.
I, I'm like, oh shit. Sorry, I thought it was eight o'clock at night. I swear to God, if you had I, I thought it was 8:00 at night and she was like, give me an hour. I was like by nine.
I don't know, I actually start getting the kids ready for bed and like now it was five twenty, it's been nine hours from an hour's fine. Turned out we'll be fine.
Well, guys, wherever you are, it's, it's not too dark.
And and we'll be back next week. Yeah, we'll be back next week and so much will be different maybe next week when we that's exciting.
I might not be so tired because I won't be working. I won't be tired because my titties will not be as heavy. Shinjiro we'll have all new titties. Yeah.
And you, you, you at home you'll be different too in ways that maybe we know, maybe we don't. Maybe you want to reach out and tell us and if you do, we appreciate it. All right. Well that's all I have to go to bed now. Yeah.
We got to let you go to bed and maybe you have to go to about two. We love you guys. Love you. Hang it. Hanging out with us at six o'clock and I got to go to bed.
I'm tired. I love you.