A warning to our listeners, this episode contains descriptions of child abuse and the sexual assault of minors, listener discretion is advised, especially for listeners under 13. Many people have disturbing memories from childhood, listening to parents fight, getting bullied at school, being abandoned at the mall. But Stuart Swerdlow has an even more traumatic memory being abducted by aliens over and over night after night.
These kidnappings were like awful, vivid nightmares. He'd wake up in a glowing plane strapped to a table, naked, paralyzed and unable to speak.
Small grey beings in dark body suits surrounded him and performed sickening experiments.
Sometimes Swerdlow saw species other than these strange gray creatures, blonde hair, military uniforms.
Eventually, Swerdlow realized these weren't just alien abductions. The grey aliens worked alongside humans, humans from the Montauk project.
Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a podcast original every Monday and Wednesday, we dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events and search for the truth. I'm Carter Roy. And I'm Molly Brandenberg. And neither of us are conspiracy theorists, but we are open minded, skeptical and curious.
Don't get us wrong. Sometimes the official version is the truth, but sometimes it's not.
You can find episodes of conspiracy theories and all other Parkhurst originals for free on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream conspiracy theories for free on Spotify.
Just open the app and type conspiracy theories in the search bar. This is our second episode on the Montauk Project, a secret U.S. government operation that supposedly used a radar system to study mind control and time travel.
Last time we heard from one of the Montauk boys, Stuart Swerdlow. He claimed Montauk scientists conducted brutal experiments on his body and mind. We also investigated the claims of Preston Nichols, who allegedly worked as one of the project's lead engineers.
Nickols five books spawned a number of conspiracy theories about the Montauk project. This episode will cover three of the most popular. The Montauk researchers worked alongside aliens to travel to Mars. Or maybe the Montauk project was a direct continuation of MK Ultra, the top secret CIA mind control program.
Or perhaps the Montauk boys weren't just test subjects, but a government created army of brainwashed sleeper agents.
We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us.
According to author Preston Nichols, from 1971 to 1983, top secret experiments took place in the depths of the Montauk Air Force station.
Nichols allegedly helped operate the project's most legendary feature, the Montauk chair.
Psychic Duncan Cameron would supposedly sit in this seat directing electromagnetic energy with his mind. Nichols claimed this system allowed the researchers to rip a hole through space time they could travel anywhere in the galaxy.
This brings us to conspiracy theory. Number one, scientists at the Montauk project used alien technology for a secret expedition to Mars.
Though Nichols claimed to be the program's assistant project director, he had no idea how scientists develop their teleporter that he offered a clue in his first book.
He claims that the project's engineers shared their findings at the Sigma conferences in Olympia, Washington. This was where physicists met to discuss their latest research on time manipulation. We should mention that we weren't able to find any record of these conferences, but it's possible their existence was never documented.
Nichols said that at the meeting, Montauk engineers learned about the Orion Delta T antenna. It was rumored that its design originally came from aliens from the Orion Constellation.
After the conference, the Montauk scientists supposedly set about building their own massive antenna underground with the right frequencies. It could allegedly create distortions in time and space.
This meant the researchers had unlocked the ultimate power, the ability to traverse millions of miles in a single instant.
According to Nichols, one of the first things scientists did was travel to Mars, they believed an ancient civilization had built Egyptian style pyramids containing an old technology on the red planet.
Allegedly, Mars's pyramids were sealed shut, and if the scientists wanted to get inside, their best bet was to warp directly into them and travel underground.
So the researchers created a portal into an ancient catacombs beneath Mars's surface. From here, they could supposedly access the ancient tombs. In his first book, Nichols' doesn't go into the details of what the team discovered there. But in his second book, Montauk Revisited, he does share a strange story that had to do with the Mars expeditions.
He claimed that a researcher from the Montauk project, who he refers to with a pseudonym of Stann, was sent on a mission to retrieve the blood of Christ and then to assassinate Jesus. Yes, you heard me right. Allegedly, Stan Time traveled to just before the day of the crucifixion. He approached Jesus, who freely gave a vial of his blood, told Stan he would not be able to kill him. After bringing the blood back to Montauk, Stan was sent to Mars.
There he saw a Christ like figure dressed in robes on a nearby ridge, and this person looked exactly like Duncan. Cameron Nichols admits that this could sound controversial to any religious folks reading his account or anyone else, for that matter. There are obviously some issues we need to pick apart here.
I assume you're having trouble believing they teleported to Mars and I don't blame you even if they did reach Mars.
How could someone walk along its surface without a spacesuit? We know the planet's atmosphere is made up of 95 percent carbon dioxide and has dangerously low air pressure. Without protective equipment, your blood would start to boil and you'd either suffocate or die from organ rupture within minutes.
There's another big problem with this claim. There aren't any pyramids on Mars.
At least that's NASA's official stance. But photos show otherwise. Now, one fire in the mid 1970s, NASA sent a Viking orbiter probe to Mars, its mission to photograph the surface of the planet and perhaps to record any signs of life in 1976.
It hurled around Sidonia, a relatively flat region and Mars as northern hemisphere. There, the probe snapped an image that sent shockwaves around the world. When NASA scientists stared at the photograph, a sphinx like face stared back.
NASA's press team dismissed the face as shadows, giving the illusion of eyes, nose and mouth. However, many ordinary people weren't convinced by that explanation. As conspiracists comb through the Viking orbiters images, they claim they discovered a number of pyramids near the face, just like the ones in Egypt. People began to speculate that the face was man or alien made. This revelation inspired Richard Hoagland, a science writer, conspiracist and Star Trek fan to delve into the mystery.
Hoglan looked at the largest pyramids geography. According to him, its axes pointed toward even more monuments, perhaps a ruined city and a dome that resembled early Bronze Age tombs. Something suspicious was going on.
Years passed before NASA offered any explanation for the ancient structures. On April eight, 2001, the Mars Global Surveyor, which could take 3D scans, descended over Sedona.
It took a photo using the cameras maximum resolution. This was far more detailed than the original images showing the Sphinx.
The new picture told a different story. The eyes, nose and mouth disappeared. Instead, the so-called face was simply a rocky hill.
Hoagland and other believers had to assume the face had either eroded or NASA had tampered with the new photos. More likely, this was a clear case of para dolia, the same phenomena that makes people see shapes in clouds.
As for the alleged pyramids, careful examination showed that the sides were neither smooth nor equal, and the other formations, like the so-called city, were a disappointing string of entirely natural hills.
But this new evidence didn't stop UFO fanatics from believing in the face on Mars. It's still a favorite theme among conspiracy theorists like Preston Nichols and Nichols.
Claims about alien activity didn't stop at the Martian pyramids. According to him, Gray aliens abducted about 50 kids and delivered them to Montauk.
Stephen Swerdlow, an alleged Montauk boy, mentioned the same beings in his book, Montauk The Alien Connection When a child tests subject died, the researchers handed his corpse to the greys to be used as food.
Allegedly, these aliens gain their energy from hormones stored in the human body, but they didn't do this by consuming human flesh. Instead, the Graceville giant vats with organs and body fluids. Then they soaked inside like a Jacuzzi.
Well, that's pretty gross. But if you choose to believe this story, it points to a collaboration between the Montauk scientists and aliens, a sort of quid pro quo. You give us technology and we'll give you bodies. Nichols', like Swerdlow also suggested the scientists got their original design for the Montauk chair from aliens.
At its core, Nickel's entire Martian pyramid story is based on unsubstantiated claims and a faulty blurry photo from the 70s. That's why, on a scale of one to 10 with a one meaning least likely and a 10 meaning most, I give conspiracy theory number one, a one out of 10.
The Martian pyramids were debunked.
But that doesn't mean aliens weren't involved in the Montauk project. The rumors that used extraterrestrial technology are hard to disprove. Therefore, I'll read this theory. A two out of ten.
Alien or not, Montauk was supposedly home to unethical experiments that preyed on innocent victims.
It might sound outlandish, but abusive government studies have happened before, specifically in a sadistic CIA program that your history books never told you about.
Coming up, we discuss M.K. Ultra. Before we get back to the show, I want to introduce a new Spotify original from cast called Incredible Feats. It's a short daily podcast hosted by comedian Dan Cumins every weekday. Dan explores an account of physical strength, mental focus or bizarre behavior that's sure to leave at least some of you in pure disbelief. But there's no question these unbelievable stories are all true, like the 350 mile nonstop run of Dean Parnassus back in 2005 and Jose Salvador Alvarenga.
Extraordinary tale of survival at sea. And let's not forget Annie Edson Taylor, the first person to go over the Niagara Falls in a barrel. Incredible feats covers people and events that pushed boundaries, broke records and revealed new sources of all its offbeat entertainment that will send your mind reeling. So don't miss out. Follow incredible feats free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story. According to Preston Nichols, the Montauk project visited Mars using alien technology, we found that pretty unlikely, to say the least.
So now we'll discuss a theory that's a little less NASA and a lot more CIA.
In addition to his Mars stories, Nichols claim that in 1973, military scientists ordered new equipment for the Montauk Air Force station. He said they were gearing up for future experiments that same year 350 miles away.
CIA Director Richard Helms was frantically trying to cover up one of the most diabolical operations in U.S. history.
Helms ordered the agency to destroy any documents about a top secret program called Project MK Ultra. It had conducted disturbing tests on unsuspecting citizens a few years later.
The Senate began investigating the CIA's wrongdoings. But even though the agency was under scrutiny, it might have continued its research in secret. After all, that's kind of their thing.
That brings us to conspiracy theory. Number two, the experiments at Montauk were a hidden continuation of MK Ultra.
Before we establish the possible link between Montauk and the declassified program, let's get a refresher on M.K. Ultra. As shocking as it is, it's not a conspiracy theory. The program has been confirmed.
In 1953, Allen Dulles, the newly appointed director of the CIA, sanctioned the MK Ultra project. He wanted to combat the supposed brain warfare that Korea, China and the Soviet Union used against American prisoners of war. Namely, these soldiers were returning from the Korean War, espousing communist ideology, leading Douglas to conclude they've been brainwashed. So he developed his own American Mind Control Initiative project.
MK Ultra was an umbrella program that housed dozens of different operations from 1953 to the mid 1960s, the CIA employed electroshock therapy, drugs, hypnosis and even radiation to break down defenses and manipulate minds.
But that wasn't even the most insidious aspect. Many subjects were either coerced into volunteering or had absolutely no idea they were part of an experiment.
The History Channel reported that from inmates at a state hospital to American soldiers, quote, M.K. Ultra's programs often preyed on the most vulnerable members of society.
From the few cases we know of, the effects of these experiments were awful. Some victims suffered irreversible mental impairment. Some died of suicide. And because the records were destroyed, most subjects will never know for sure that they participated in the program.
According to Steven Swerdlow and Freston Nichols, the Montauk project also preyed on unwilling and unwitting victims.
Swerdlow claimed to belong to an elite group that recruited new kids for the experiments. These children were often from families that didn't have the resources to find them, Swerdlow said. Montauk went after the children of sex workers, drug addicts and alcoholics. Sometimes they picked up teens who'd been living on the streets.
Many of these children allegedly died at Montauk, some from the actual experiments, others from starvation and abuse. Swerdlow never knew for sure how many kids went to their deaths. Like M.K. Ultra records of Montargis experiments never saw the light of day.
I definitely see the similarity in MK Ultra and Mattocks recruitment methods, but one difference stands out to me. There's no hard evidence that MK Ultra ever abused kids. But just because there's no official evidence doesn't mean there's no evidence in trance formation of America. Author Cathy O'Brien alleged that she was forced into MK Ultra when she was a child. This wasn't your run of the mill experiment, according to O'Brien, she joined a special operation project.
Monarch O'Brien said their goal was to turn subjects into sex slaves who could gratify prominent politicians.
Ron Patton, editor of an Ultra magazine, added that the name for Project Monarch comes from the metamorphosis that a monarch butterfly undergoes.
This was the goal of the project to turn passive children into active sexual assets and slaves for people in power.
Again, no official documents mentioned Project Monarch, much less its associations with the Montauk Project. However, an intriguing detail in Swallow's book suggests there was some sort of connection.
In early childhood, Swerdlow experienced a dreamlike abduction. He found himself standing in the centre of a circle, strange being surrounded him, including one that looked like a giant butterfly. The butterfly told Swerdlow they were an ancient species from a distant planet. They'd adopted him as a spiritual student.
It seems like too much of a coincidence to just disregard. Swerdlow professed to be a student of the monarch butterflies, just like O'Brien said she trained as a monarch operative.
Additionally, Swerdlow story featured ruthless tales of repeated sex abuse. He said Montauk researchers strap devices to his genitals and that aliens. Harvested his sperm. It definitely mirrors the sinister abuse that O'Brien described in her own training. So perhaps Swerdlow wasn't only a Montauk boy, but also a monarch boy. And if so, this would suggest a direct link from an ultra to the Montauk project. However, there's a problem with O'Brien's claims, supposedly she retrieved her memories of Project Monarch via hypnosis performed by her husband.
While hypnosis can unearth vivid, imaginative events, there's limited evidence that it uncovers the truth. That's because in a hypnotic state, subjects can't think critically about what they're experiencing.
Elizabeth Loftus, one of the world's leading experts on memory, noted it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between a real memory and one that is a product of imagination.
In light of that, there's really no proof that O'Brien's story was real. M.K. Ultra preyed on vulnerable populations, sure, but we can't confirm M.K. ultra abused children or that it's connected to the Montauk project.
However, there is another major similarity that's worth mentioning.
The ultra records show that the CIA sought to develop the perfect truth serum, one of the chemicals they tried with sodium pentothal, this barbiturate has mainly been used for anesthesia and lethal injection.
However, it also decreases higher cortical brain functioning. So it tends to make subjects more talkative, less inhibited and less able to lie. And Swerdlow said that as an adult, he had an allergic reaction to sodium pentothal during a visit to a hospital. But the doctors told him the people only had severe responses if they used it extensively at some point in their lives. If that's true, then researchers at Montauk might have injected Swerdlow with a dangerous amount of sodium pentothal, just like we know researchers did in MK Ultra.
And the drug experimentation didn't stop there. M.K. Ultra scientists also tested with heroin, mescaline, psilocybin, cannabis and LSD. In the History Channel documentary The Dark Files, witnesses claim researchers forced LSD on the children inside the base's so-called acid houses.
James Bruce, a pseudonym, backed up these claims, and Bruce alleged that the Montauk project employed Timothy Leary to help with the research now.
Leary was a renowned Harvard psychologist, famous for his studies on psychedelics in the 60s. He wanted LSD to empower people to think for themselves. However, the idea that Leary worked with Montauk is demonstrably false. There's no evidence that Leary ever visited the station in the Montauk project went against everything Larry stood for, so it makes no sense that he would be there.
So maybe Leary wasn't involved and Bruce was either lying or misremembering. Therefore, we can't definitively say that LSD was used at Montauk.
In truth, a lot of the comparisons to M.K. Ultra can't be verified. Despite the similarities and the overlapping timeline, there's no direct link between the two operations. For this reason, I'll give our conspiracy theory no to a two out of 10.
That said, it's hard to explain why Swerdlow hallucinated a butterfly, and that could point to some tie in with Project Monarch. But I'll still agree and give this a two out of ten.
Even if the Montauk project wasn't a continuation of MK Ultra. There are plenty of people who claim to have been part of it, too many to ignore.
But they all tell slightly different stories about their time there. Some mentioned aliens, some time travel, others sadistic experiments. But maybe these tales are just smoke and mirrors, distracting us from the real truth. A tragic tale of exploitation, sexual predation and a hoax that traumatized hundreds of victims. Coming up, the true purpose of the Montauk project. Now back to the story. Allegations that the Montauk project was part of M.K. Ultra seem dubious at best and so depressed and Nichols claims that the Montauk team worked alongside aliens.
But the question remains, why have dozens of people professed to have been part of these experiments? That query is the basis for conspiracy theory. Number three, the Montauk boys were a government created army of brainwashed sleeper agents. They committed terrorist attacks all over the world.
This theory, again, comes from Preston Nichols in Montauk Revisited. He asserted that the Montauk researchers broke down children's minds and programmed them for military purposes.
Other conspiracists have backed up this claim. They've insinuated that this group of saboteurs were responsible for the Paris subway attacks, the explosion at the 1996 Olympics and even the Oklahoma City bombing. Supposedly, these events further the goals of the new world order.
But just what those goals are? Nobody knows.
There's no evidence that a so-called new world order even exists. And there's no direct tie that links these attacks to the Montauk project.
However, the claim isn't as unbelievable as you'd expect.
This wasn't the first time the government tried to create brainwashed soldiers. It was just the first time they succeeded that we know of.
Declassified CIA documents from 1951 reveal Project Artichoke, previously named Project Bluebird, the scope of the program was outlined in a memo. Can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will?
The project seems mainly aimed at improving interrogation techniques, but allegedly the CIA also tried to make individuals involuntarily perform assassinations and then perhaps eliminate the evidence themselves. They experimented with hypnosis, sleep deprivation and drugs. Many of artichokes experiments were done overseas, however.
Some were also said to have been conducted at home and veterans hospitals and federal prisons, Artichoke and MK Ultra, which the project would turn into, focused on gaining control of people's minds and bodies. This lined up with sward whose alleged experiences at the Montauk base.
He claims that when he tried to refuse the experiments, Montauk scientists coerced him. He simply had to follow instructions.
Willing or not, this does line up with a new World Order theory. The New World Order supposedly carried out clandestine operations to save mankind from itself. If Montauk was part of this, then Swerdlow wasn't just a U.S. test subject. He worked to protect the world.
However, Project Artichoke seems to have determined that a puppeteer, the assassin, could probably not be created.
That's because, according to declassified documents, hypnotism provided no or at the very, most very limited physical control or custody of the subject.
So if Montauk was a continuation of artichoke or built in a legacy, they didn't have anything successful to go off of.
There are other problems with the new World Order theory.
Al Baylock, the man who claimed to have been part of the Philadelphia experiment, once alleged that over 10 million Americans were processed in the Montauk Boys program.
In a later documentary, Montauk Chronicles, he estimated it was more in the range of 10000 to 100000. In the same documentary, Swerdlow estimated that 300000 children were used and less than one percent of them survived.
These are big discrepancies. It also seems unlikely that no one would have noticed so many children going missing.
In truth, many of these witness stories don't line up. Some victims alleged torture, others are tested for drug use and even others rape.
However, there is one consistent thread. They only remembered the project later in life.
Montauk experiencers claim the scientists must have deleted their memories. This makes sense. Otherwise, the sleeper agents would have known that they'd been programmed.
But that begs the question, is it even possible to erase memories?
Officially, scientists haven't explored tested memory erasure on humans due to ethical concerns, but they have tried it on animals.
If a male fruit fly, Cortes, a female who's already mated the female, exerts a stress on the male. He's so disturbed he never tries to mate again. That's a pretty harsh rejection. In one experiment, scientists kept these traumatized males in the dark, the literal dark. After two days, the male flies emerged and tried to meet again. This lack of light seemed to erase their earlier traumatic memories, or at least the emotions associated with them.
Of course, it's hard to know this for sure. You can't do an exit interview with a fly.
However, scientists have looked for ways to reduce symptoms of phobia in people. In one trial, they showed a group of arachnophobes, a tarantula in a glass jar. At the same time, they gave them propranolol, a beta blocker. Later, they brought the subjects back to the lab to confront the spider again. Those who'd used the drug gradually seemed to lose their phobia.
But as impressive as this is, it's not like the subject's lost the memory of the spider. And unless the government has some kind of secret knowledge, it's unlikely they were able to compile. Lightly delete what happened at Montauk from their subjects memories. Interestingly, though, it has been proven you can implant false memories.
Elizabeth Loftus, a renowned memory expert, demonstrated that it's possible to create false recollections through suggestion these memories become strong and vivid, even if they don't contain a shred of truth.
Studies showed that about 20 percent of subjects could be manipulated to believe that they'd experienced things that had never occurred. This included traumatic events like being abandoned at a mall and possible ones like meeting a Warner Brothers character at Disneyland in 1998, an upstanding father in Olympia, Washington, Paul Ingram, became convinced of something horrific that he had once forced his son and daughter to have sex while he watched, and that this was all part of a satanic ritual abuse conspiracy.
Though this event was completely made up, Ingram recalled false memories about it during periods of hypnosis. Eventually, he pled guilty and was placed in prison, although he was later found to be innocent. Think about that with enough repetition. You too might remember doing something you never actually did.
The Montauk boys who came forward all swore they remembered being at the base. Perhaps these memories were false, something they imagined after speaking to Preston Nichols. But even if that's the case, why would Nichols implant these thoughts?
This is where the real conspiracy behind the Montauk project takes shape. According to Nichols, he unearthed repressed memories from other Montauk witnesses using Reichian therapy techniques.
Wilhelm Reich was an Austrian psychoanalyst in the early 20th century. He had numerous controversial theories. One was the existence of a mysterious Oregon energy, a cosmic force that permeated the universe.
The word orgone is closely linked to the word orgasm. Reich believed that repressed memories were stored in the body.
He claimed that through massage, a therapist could unlock them and a wave of climactic pleasure would radiate through the patient. Nichols allegedly took this risque technique a step further, adding a sci fi spin. According to a conspiracist named Chris Ketchum, the best description of the process came from a victim will call Noah Smith at age 19. Smith suspected he was a Montauk boy and called Nichols to ask for help. But Nichols said he couldn't deprogram over the phone. Smith ultimately left his home state of Arizona to stay in Long Island for three years.
He lived in a house with a few other men, all of whom hoped Nichols would give them answers. Every so often, Nichols came over and ordered Smith to undress.
Then he'd massage parts of Smith's body, allegedly scanning for frequencies. Then Nichols would manually stimulate him. This was supposed to somehow reverse these so-called sexual magic of the Montauk chair. While conducting these scans, Nichols feared Smith and the other men far fetched tales of aliens body snatching parallel dimensions. He told them to seek answers inside their own minds, no matter what they remembered.
Nichols reiterated, it was all true.
Another resident's girlfriend said there were about 25 disciples like Smith in Ketcham's report. She says each guy would go into a bedroom with Nichols alone. They'd come out wild eyed with all sorts of stories, and Nichols would come out covered in sweat. And every week there was a new story, a new discovery.
Considering that all it takes is a slight suggestion to implant a false memory. It's not hard to see how these men believe the impossible, especially with this seemingly consensual but definitely confusing layer of sexuality. However, we were unable to confirm Ketcham's accusations in other sources.
If what Ketcham's said was true, however, was this how Steven Swerdlow and Duncan Cameron supposedly retrieved their Montauk memories, Swerdlow seemed embarrassed about his deprogramming experience. Yet he still published a whole autobiography about his experiences. To understand why, we have to look at this book in it, he claimed to receive special abilities as a sort of parting gift from his handlers at Montauk.
Swerdlow claims he can now look into a person's body and see what's wrong with it, and you can access his services or a price.
And in the early 1990s, Swerdlow was charged with bank fraud. In a documentary interview, however, Swerdlow professes innocence and claims he was threatened into pleading guilty. But maybe he's not lying, at least not intentionally. American studies scholar and alien abduction researcher Brigitte Browne believes Swerdlow has a mental health condition. He's exhibited delusional behaviors and dealt with suicide attempts, a stint in jail and institutionalization. And this is probably the saddest part of the Mantar conspiracy. With a multiple mentions of sexual trauma throughout Swirlies book, it's hard to shake the feeling that something terrible did happen to him.
Many scholars and psychologists have surmised that abduction stories could be disguised memories of sexual or physical abuse when Swerdlow awoke in his childhood bed in terror.
He later understood it as aliens harvesting his DNA.
Nichols handed Swerdlow and out a release. Montauk explained every bad thing that had ever happened to him. It provided a cosmic reason for his suffering and gave him something to feel proud about. Finally, he was special.
On the same point, the New York Times science reporter Benedict Carey wrote in the sense Abduction memories are like transcendent religious visions, scary and yet somehow comforting and at some personal psychological level.
True conspiracy theory number three alleged that Manti created a secret army of programmed assassins. But more likely than not, any memories of the training were probably imagined. That's why this last theory gets a one out of 10 for me.
I also give it a one out of 10, though there are lots of Montauk experiencers out there. So something may have happened. Perhaps there's a secret program we just don't know about yet.
The thing is, none of these theories really seem likely and that makes sense. There's no evidence to prove anything fishy ever happened underneath the Montauk Air Force Base.
However, there's lots to suggest that something suspicious was happening above ground, perhaps in the homes of Preston Nichols devoted followers. It's impossible to know whether Nichols believed his own claims. However, we do know one lie that can be definitively disproved.
The Philadelphia experiment, which supposedly led to the Montauk project, never happened for this reason alone.
And I think that the Montauk project, however intriguing, was a hoax devised by Nickols, perpetuated by his book publisher and simply imagined by everyone else.
In the end, the Montauk project is a conspiracy theory with very little proof. But maybe that's what makes it so powerful to believe it. You have to accept the wild stories simply as they are.
You'd have to accept that Stuart Swerdlow wasn't dreaming about grey aliens, and you'd have to believe that the government is capable of almost completely erasing their tracks. Just whether or not that's possible. That's up to you to decide. Thanks for tuning into conspiracy theories. We'll be back Monday with a new episode, you can find all episodes of conspiracy theories and all other cast originals for free on Spotify.
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Conspiracy Theories was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studio's original. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler, Sound Design by Russell Nash with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden and Joshua Kern. This episode of Conspiracy Theories was written by Ben Karro with writing assistants by Ali Whicker and stars Molly Brandenberg and Carter Roy. Remember to follow incredible feats, four mind reeling stories of strength, focus and achievement, comedian and podcast Dan Cummins hosts bringing his signature humor to these extreme accounts.
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