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[00:00:04]

If you think about it, prison breaks are the most predictable of all crimes, we lock inmates up in tiny confined spaces, force them to eat terrible food, barely let them see sun. They can't even wear their own clothes. Even worse, we limit their social contact so the people most inmates talk to are ding, ding, ding. Other inmates, convicted criminals. Of course, prisoners are going to plan escapes together. So we make it a seemingly impossible task.

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A prison break is risky, daunting and deadly. Every precaution is taken to deter felons from busting out. Escaped prisoners have to dodge bullets, swim miles across the ocean, change their names and even their faces with plastic surgery. And as far as which prison break was the riskiest, that's today. The top 10 most daring prison breaks. Real people who faced insane odds but were willing to try literally anything just for a moment in the sun.

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Hailu Weirdo's, welcome to the podcast Original Crime Countdown, I'm Ash and Emelina. Every week will highlight 10 fascinating stories of history's most engaging and unsettling crimes, all picked by the podcast Research Gods.

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This week's topic is daring prison breaks.

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I'm going to say it.

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I truly feel like I would be a great prison escapee. I'm not going to disagree with you. This is something I just know I would accept.

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I don't even like yard work, so I am not going to sit there and imagine digging with a spoon.

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Yeah, I could definitely see that. I mean, Ashley's nickname still is and always was Crash. Not a quiet girl. No, not quite.

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And I move around so quietly that I scare my husband on the rag when I enter a room in our own house. I've seen it.

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Yeah, it happens literally daily. So would you say that you're more of like a Dannemora or Shawshank?

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Oh, I would Dannemora that shit. What? Yeah. Yeah. No way do I have the patience to slowly tunnel for like twenty years and then crawl through raw sewage. If you take your knowledge from media coverage about prison breaks, like I think most of us do, you probably think prison breaks are like super theatrical involved, like a lot of planning, but apparently a lot of prison breaks are just people just in at a minimum security prisons and usually getting caught.

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Well, this week, we're not just watching the news coverage of this. We are counting it down for ourselves. The cool thing about this countdown is Elayna has five topics and so do I, but we don't know which one the other has. Let's start the countdown. You been feeling bound up in your house, break free from that with the new unbound cordless auto curler from con air and experienced the power of beauty in motion. It's a high performance auto Carlat that's rechargeable and gives you up to 60 minutes of cord free runtime.

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So don't get tied down by cords. Love your look live unbound. Check it out at Conair, dotcom and search unbound. Ten. I'll get us started with number 10 for most daring prison breaks with the escape of California federal prisoners and lovebirds Samantha Lopez and Ron McIntosh.

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McIntosh disappeared on October twenty eight nineteen eighty six during an unescorted transfer from the Pleasanton prison to another facility on November 5th. He landed a helicopter in the Pleasanton Recreation Yard and flew off with Samantha Lopez. Wow. Yeah, no big deal. Now, Lopez was already serving time for bank robbery. Macintosh was an Army helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War and was serving time for financial fraud. OK, they were busy.

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Yeah, they had some things going on. Already knew all about this. Samantha Lopez went on blind faith when Ronald J. McIntosh told her to go to the field every day for a week after you left to be transferred where they first met.

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So she was just like, OK, if I were, I'd be like, well, you know, I have things to do also.

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You know, I have a schedule that I'd like to keep to. I can't just be going into this field every day. What do you want me to do here? Federal authorities apprehended them 10 days later, of course, in a Sacramento shopping mall, and they were buying instead of ready for it, wedding rings. I mean, romance, am I right? We just you they were like, you're going to have to put those down. Yeah.

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McIntosh was additionally indicted for air piracy, you know, for the helicopter.

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You know, that helicopter, that little thing.

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They pleaded innocent to charges because, of course, of air piracy and escape there like that actually wasn't us. Now, that was someone I don't know what you're talking about, those two other lovebirds trying to get out of there.

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So their defense team believe they could be acquitted because their bond compelled them to act irrationally. They were like they are just so in love that they went crazy. You know how that happened, you know? Well, they were not acquitted. That was not a valid argument.

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Spoiler alert. Nine.

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At number nine is the infamous John Dillinger and what was not his first escape in 1930 for Dillinger broke out of an escape proof county jail in Indiana using a fake gun he'd whittled, which he used to force guards to open his cell, effectively proving that names like escape proof and unsingable are just like challenges to the universal subject of the Titanic DB2 not unsinkable.

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While Dillinger escaped from a Lima, Ohio, jail just months earlier, he orchestrated the beginning of his escape with a wooden gun. That's a bold move. It is. It's a bold move. Craftmanship went into that.

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Let's see if it works out for. I'm going to go with that. It does it. Well, his fatal mistake was stealing a sheriff's car and crossing the Indiana Illinois line. So that's a mistake. Did not work out at that point. The FBI could officially begin a manhunt and they were like, let's do this, we're ready. We are ready, because then Dillinger robbed like several banks after he escaped. So they're like, really? He had no chill.

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You're not just going to lay low for like a solid week or so. No zero till that dude. And then J. Edgar Hoover named him America's very first public enemy number one. What a distinction. If I had that title, I would stress me out. I'm not going to lie. That's a pretty cool title. No, that's exactly what you would want to be in the worst way.

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Yeah, but I mean, whatever it's a distinction.

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I'd rather be like America's sweetheart. You would be. Oh, yeah.

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Well, Dillinger was finally taken down when he was turned into the FBI by his lover's friend.

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Oh, that's like the very first recorded. I hate your best friend momentously. It really in couples history. Also, whenever anybody says his lover, I just think of, like, lover boy. Lover boy.

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Eight, number eight on our list of daring prison breaks, the once elusive Joaquin El Chapo Guzman. El Chapo had previously escaped prison in 2001 by bribing his guards, but his escape in 2015 from the Occupy L.A. maximum security prison was more complicated and included sneaking into a tunnel. So he escaped in 2001 in a laundry cart. The best escape. Yeah, and some people dispute this testimony probably because it's in every prison movie ever. Literally every movie ever.

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You see somebody like whistling as they're like pushing a cart. Now, why is this so heavy?

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Because I always wonder, like, if they're not in on it and they're just pushing a laundry cart like the people before that had to wonder why it is this laundry cart feel like it contains a grown man and they're like crazy. And they're like, this is just a lot of laundry.

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So he escaped in 2015 through the personal showering area on his cell and that led into a tunnel. OK, so thank goodness he had that personal file. I mean, thank goodness. Or like I don't know. I think I mean, not thank goodness, but then go to him.

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So the tunnel that he escaped through was lighted and ventilated and nearly a mile long.

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That's not like that long. So. Well, they were saying, why me when it's a tunnel collapsed? And this indicated to some people that he had help in building it, but at least it's ventilated and.

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Well, it did a quick selfie.

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And you need to it's luxurious. It is really. So I feel like somebody help them.

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So at the time of his escapes, he was considered the world's most powerful drug lord.

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I mean, another big distinction, a big title, big title. He was planning another escape in 2016, but that wouldn't happen because he was extradited to the United States somewhere for him.

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Bumba, he was eventually transferred to Colorado's ADX administrative maximum facility in Florence, which was deemed to be escape proof. Everything is deemed to be escape proof. And I think we just talked about the fact that when you say escape proof, that's just a challenge. Like it's just somebody that wants to be like, well, is it, though?

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Seven. At number seven this week, bank robber Willie Sutton making his escape from prison, along with 11 other men in nineteen forty five. The men worked in pairs for 30 minute shifts, digging a tunnel, using spoons and flattened cans to finally escape the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philly. I love the spoons. I told you in the beginning of this, I do not have that patience. You don't know things well to escape. They dug a 31 inch opening through a wall of the cell, which is like 31 inches.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, I think it is four with spoon. With spoon. I keep thinking of what they're using to dig with. I'm thinking of their bodies having to go through that.

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You're right. Like, that's not that big of an opening for your own person because that wouldn't work out for you.

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Not going to work.

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So they did that and then they dug 12 feet straight down into the ground with their spoons and then another 100 feet out beyond the walls.

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I'm most amazed that they were able to stay committed to this the whole time. Like, I would get I get like two shifts into this and I'd be like, well, guys, it's been real, but we're just going to stay here forever.

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I honestly would have broken my spoon like four minutes into this. Like Pat Pat on the back could try everybody serious later. Well, Sutin only had about three minutes of freedom, which I think same probably.

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I don't even know if I'd get to that point after he and his fellow escapees use the intricate tunnel that they had built to escape egg on your face. Go through all that work and you're like three minutes. A good three minutes of sunshine. It was great after they were returned. This sucks. They were put in Klondyke, which are illegal dark cells. And you're going to hate this in these cells. You can't stand all the way up or lie all the way down.

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So you're just kind of like mushed.

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That makes me want to scream. Why do these even exist?

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It sounds like a really bad nightmare where you're like, oh, I don't like it.

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It makes me want to stretch. Yeah, I have such a I'm like, I need to touch the feeling. I need to lay down. I need space.

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Worf, Willy was always armed during these robberies, but even those who were present said that he was super polite through his crimes. He actually felt a lot of pride and not having to use his weapons, I mean, whatever as a feather in your cap, I guess just stick that right in there. You're like, hello, I'm very polite during my armed robberies.

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Hello. I'd like to rob you, please. How do you do?

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It was also known as the actor or this is my favorite Slick Willy. I love that so best because of his penchant for disguises when robbing establishments.

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I will not lie Willy kind of rules. I mean, I kind of would have been into him at this time. It's like Willy is pretty cool, you know. In nineteen forty seven escape, Sutton and his crew dressed as prison guards and when the searchlights hit them he just yelled, It's OK and no one stops them. He's like, it's all good down here.

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I love that. I like Willie's defense.

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It's like, what else was he going to yell like? Oh sorry. You go back, would you just yell like this is not OK. We are not prison guards. We are inmates. I like that. He was just like, it's OK guys, it's all good. I got this OK.

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Six also on our list at number six, Father John Jarrard and his escape from the Tower of London in fifteen ninety seven. Mhm. A lot of people attempted to escape the tower in many different ways.

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But Father John Gerrard's escape is legendary and has been nicknamed the Great Citrus Fruit Escape.

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I would like to know more. Please tell me more.

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Jarod was a Jesuit priest and that was a very dangerous thing to be during Elizabethan England.

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Oh, yeah, makes it a good thing to be.

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He was imprisoned under Queen Elizabeth, the first Protestant reign. Father Gerard was tortured. Oh, now, as was most people in the Tower of London, you weren't having a good time like asthma.

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Most people in that time, not a great time just to be basically they hoped by torturing him that they would get him to confess to treason just so they could execute him because they were like, we'd really like to get him gone. So he's like, well, I'm not going to do that because I'm not guilty. And also I don't want to die. I'm not going to do it. And I need to use orange juice somewhere. So let's do it.

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What what do you used orange juice for? I never knew that was going to be like what was like excuse me. He used orange juice just to create invisible ink that he used to secretly write letters that he exchanged with other prisoners and they all planned the escape. Wow. Like, why don't you start doing it? OK, stir it.

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Father Gerard also lived to be almost seventy three years old after escaping and his drink of choice was a screwdriver.

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Sure was nice. Sure was.

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While the Sparkasse research gods are killing it, they are killing it. I'm going to give it to them. I'm also learning a lot throughout history, right.

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And they gave me knowledge of Willie Sutton. And for that, I will be in their debt for quite some time forever. Grateful for Slick Willie knowledge, I am waiting to see if one particular one pops up on the list, but I have faith in them. Who are you waiting for? Am I going to tell you OK.

[00:15:24]

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[00:15:29]

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[00:16:08]

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We're going back to 1975 when American Billy Hayes got himself out of a Turkish prison while serving time for possession of hashish and an escape made for Hollywood. Oh, I'm into it. Right. I'm ready. So Billy Hayes was an English major and he left college in search of great adventures to write about and a big sense of wanderlust who doesn't?

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And he wanted to be just like his hero, Jack London, of course. So he was arrested at the airport in Istanbul trying to board his plane while carrying four pounds of hashish, like maybe like take a little less with you.

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A bit risky, one might say, you know, especially when you're, like going in a foreign place. Yeah. You don't want to do it. You don't know what to expect. Well, he was given a life sentence. That punishment seems like all disproportionate to the crime. A little harsh. Maybe that's just me. Hope you got that reference. Hope you did. Well, after five brutal years, he began planning his escape without any assistance from anyone in this prison because he was like the only foreigner there.

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Yeah. So he's all by himself.

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Well, Billy is doing it. I'm tone deaf. You know, it's beautiful. I love it.

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Well, his escape was super adventurous, so he got his craving for adventure. I sure did. And involved are already a stolen boat. Oh, miles of rowing. I'm already out.

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I was going to say as soon as I have to roam, like, well, I'll just sit on the jail cell for lunch. I would just sit in the rowboat and wait. I'm like, oh, just come and get me. I wouldn't even do that. He had to evade landmines. Big task. He had to swim across the Maritza River into Greece, which this all just sounds basically like the worst triathlon ever.

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And you do not get a jacket after this. I don't know what you got. Probably leg cramps. You get a lot of things, but not a jacket, nothing good. He basically, Shashank, to the extreme. He did it just didn't take him the full time, I guess.

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Did not. He also dyed his hair and mustache black to blend in. But this didn't really work out for him. Never does. No, it doesn't, because he was caught by a Grecian guard and that gracian guard then decided to phone the U.S. because there was no love lost between Turkey and Greece.

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No, there was not.

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And, you know, I feel like whenever they try to, like, be a cosmetology major after these things, it fails every time it does because they draw attention to themselves, because they're not good at tying their hair.

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Dyeing your own hair is very hard. I well, it is.

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And also, if you die your hair black, a lot of times it looks like shoe polish. You got to. Yeah. Do it right. So people are probably like, who's that weird guy over there? Why does he look like a shoe Polish thing? Why does he look like one of those shoe Polish thingamajigs?

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Surprisingly, he later said that he needed to go to jail at the time because he did a lot of growing up there.

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I mean, there's other ways you could do your growing up. I mean, at least you're back on it and finding out what it was. It was fine. I learned a lot. It was a time. And I don't know if you've ever seen have you seen the Midnight Express? Yes, I have.

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So that is based on him and his. Wow. I always actually think of Midnight Express whenever I'm in the airport and someone gets really angry that they have to be searched or something. I'm like, oh, this is very Midnight Express.

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Oh, no, I've actually never seen it. For landing at number four this week is another man whose story got the Hollywood treatment, legendary con man Frank Abagnale. In 1971, a U.S. marshal forgot to give Abigail's detention papers to the prison in Atlanta like, wow, how do you forget to do that?

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He was able to convince the guards that he was actually an undercover prison inspector posing as an inmate sent by the FBI.

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Wow, what a cover story. I feel you have to take a lot of convincing. I love it. Well, he did it in 1971. Prisons were being condemned by civil rights groups and investigated by congressional committees because they were like, what's going on there? There's a lot of mess happening. You guys got a lot of humans in there. What is exactly going down? Abagnale built up this fake alibi over the next several weeks. So he was like, let's do this, let's commit.

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He was already and he did it until guards trusted him enough to meet an accomplice in a car outside the prison gates. See, this is what I was saying in the beginning. This is what I would do. It is what you would do. He had his friend pose as his fiancee to come visit him, and she forged a business card that would give him the back up so that his prison inspector's story looked plausible. That's brilliant. They planned this out.

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You have to. I love the planning I do to the logistics and, you know, the schematics that are going into that thing that I just love it. And he prays to the guards, unquote, figuring out that he was a prison inspector. And since it was 9:00 p.m., the office number on his card, it couldn't be reached. How coincidental was Nigezie? He was sentenced to jail in three different countries over his lifetime, including France, Sweden and America.

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I hope you had a lot of those business cards. He saw the world. He had escaped from police custody on two separate occasions before the age of twenty two while he was real busy. I didn't do anything as impressive as that.

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I mean, I'm twenty four and I've barely done anything thus far. What's even crazier, he now works with the FBI in preventing cons and frauds. If you're going to have someone, he's the best guy to have it. And if you've ever seen, catch me if you can. The movie, it has Leonardo DiCaprio playing him. Oh, wait. I forgot to mention that it's a good movie and that's him. Wow. I didn't know that your life means something when Leonardo DiCaprio plays you.

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Yeah, that's my goal.

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My life means something when Leo's on my screen, Leo plays me in a movie life no matter what. Let's put on Nicole.

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Number three on our list of daring prison breaks, the escape at Dannemora of Ricky Matt and David Sweat. After months of planning, these two men cut, chopped, coerced and connived their way.

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We love an alliteration. We do it out of a maximum security prison in the wilderness of upstate New York. And the media called this a bold escape for the ages.

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That sounds like the new summer novel, a bold escape for the ages. I would honestly read that. I don't you know, it was it's a beach read. That's why you would read it? Yes, I would run as far away from that as possible, if that sounds like a bunch of crap.

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I'm good. This is also the escape I was hoping would be on the list. Oh, it was. Yeah. Well, OK, well, let's talk about it. So this breakaway starts with a bromance. Of course it does. Matt and Sweat first met in the honor block, which is sells for inmates who display good behavior. So just to brose, Barrhaven, you know, for now they were enjoying a romantic prison yard walk a day when they noticed the speed bump looking pipe in.

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They're like, yo, this is the same pipe that we're going to use to escape. Oh, they were just like, you want to shimmy through this pipe with me. Let's be brose on the outside. So the first time Matt and Sweat explored the escape tunnels, they referenced the movie Shawshank Redemption, of course, and they joked about doing it quicker. Oh, you're going to do it quicker than 20 years, you know, groundbreaking. Wow.

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You guys really set that bar high, real high. So there was assistance from two corrections officers, including Joyce Mitchell.

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That's going to sound familiar to you.

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So she had been investigated earlier by prison officials when they suspected that there was like this secret romance going on between her and David Sweat. That's a bad idea. Like maybe don't keep it that intercompany dating. Yeah, don't do that. You're not supposed to do that. It's one place where I'm like, yeah, maybe don't date. Yeah.

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No doubt about it's going to get weird, I assure you. It certainly is. So their entire escape did actually take a lot less time than The Shawshank Redemption. Well, that's good.

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It only took less than an hour or so less than The Shawshank, much less. A little less.

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They managed to elude police for three weeks. I remember this. I remember this, too.

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And it's so funny because I somehow, like, blocked this out. And then I was reading this list and I was like, oh, my God, there it is.

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So I wanted it to be on the list because I remember over on the East Coast here in Massachusetts, we're like, OK, stay in New York, who I and be on that board of Massachusetts was freaking out because my dad, little sister and little brother live in upstate New York and I don't go to my dad's backyard.

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Don't do it to the contraband, which was like glasses with lights. Joyce Mitchell had given this to them. They found it in the tunnel after they escaped from. Yeah, there's like we don't need it anymore. He did not love you.

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And Joyce was like, wow, I worked really hard to get. That's real nice. What do you think of my gift? Very underappreciated. So Matt considered taking a person hostage when they were almost discovered, but it was like, yeah, let's not do that.

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Bad idea. No, no, no. Because these dummies always take it too far. It's like the thing. It's like Dillinger robbing a bank right away. It's like just chill.

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Just go live in the wilderness for a bit. Just calm down.

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So I'm glad to see, like I said, Dannemora, I guess, was I guess you were waiting for. Yes, because I all I could think of was that was like a really scary time. It was especially for the East Coast because we didn't know where they were going to end up there in the wilderness somewhere. We were like they could pop over the border. It's not that far.

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And already escaped prison. Exactly. And little like fun. Crazy fact. When I was super little like a baby, there was an escape from Bridgewater State Prison here, which is right near right near us. And the person ended up in our backyard and there were like police helicopters and police everywhere telling us to stay in the house.

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They were like yelling at everybody.

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I'm really bummed that I wasn't I know you weren't born yet because all we had was woods behind our house and they were thinking he was hiding out in the woods somewhere. And those woods were dense now.

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And I mean, I was a baby. I was not being like, wow, this is crazy. I just hoping that I would, you know, go to sleep in the next hour.

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But I'm sure it was crazy for my mom and my sisters. Definitely prison escapes. Am I right?

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To. And number two is the escape from Alcatraz for Frank Morris and John and Clarence Anglin in nineteen sixty two over the course of a year, they used crude tools. So worse than spoons, I guess, to carefully dig a tunnel in their adjacent cell walls that led them to an unused service corridor. That's smart. You got to have Alcatraz on the list from nineteen thirty four to nineteen sixty three. No one had ever successfully escaped or survived an escape attempt other than these three men.

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Wow. So this was real daring. It was big. So the three of them. This is so crazy. The way that they did this was they actually made heads like actual heads like replica of out of a mixture of soap, toilet paper and real human hair, like real gross just collections like were you just going around, like scooping it out of dreams. You really like getting it out of your brush. Yeah, I don't love that.

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And they left these heads in their beds to fool prison officers making the nighttime inspections. Yeah, I used to do that all the time. When I would sneak out at night, you made a head out of soap, toilet paper and real human hair all the time collected from your fellow inmates all the time.

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I figured I remember that time. Yeah, right. They escaped through a ventilator. Great.

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And the plan, once they got out of there was they were going to steal clothes, they were going to steal a car. But no thefts were recovered despite the high profile nature of this crime. So it's like what exactly happened? So what it was like, wait, they had a plan. So what happened? Well, a packet of letters sealed in rubber and related to the men was found by boat operators.

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And a homemade life vest was to the inmates were never found because it's like did they think that they definitely got just me?

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There are several theories that exist about, you know, speculating about what happened. A 2013 letter to the FBI, if real, suggests the Anglin brothers and Frank Morris survived. Wow. I don't know. And then they just, like, turn their lives around and never did crimes again.

[00:30:11]

I just think it's it's a lovely thought, but no, I just don't see it that well. The FBI officially closed the case on December 31st. Nineteen seventy nine. But the US Marshals Service continues to investigate it just in case they're still alive, because there is we don't know, maybe we'll find them one day. We have no proof either way.

[00:30:30]

You just never know. One. And that brings us to number one on our list of daring prison breaks, it is the rightfully named Great Escape and its mastermind, Roger Bushell. The Great Escape was an attempt by allied prisoners of war to escape a Nazi maximum security work camp in the latter half of World War Two. That is a great escape. A great escape. I'm into it.

[00:31:10]

So the design features of the camp had a loose, collapsible sandy soil, and that made it almost impossible to escape from. That's where nightmares come from.

[00:31:20]

It's like quicksand. Yeah, you're in a nightmare. And then to get out of the nightmare, there's more nightmares. All the nightmares from April nineteen forty three to March nineteen forty four, over six hundred prisoners worked together on this project. When do you ever hear of 600 people working together on anything? Never really. I am not a group project kind of girl, but if there were six hundred people, I might be more. Yeah, and this is a good cause.

[00:31:44]

It is. They dug three tunnels and they nicknamed them Tom and this one was hidden under a dark corner. Dick was underneath. About a third one is going to be. And guess what? What do you think it was? Harry. Yeah.

[00:31:57]

Tom, Dick and Harry underneath a stove I love. So four thousand bed boards. Sixty two tables. Thirty four chairs, seventy six benches. Six hundred and thirty five mattresses. One hundred and ninety two bed covers and one hundred and sixty one pillow cases were used to help with this tunnel construction. Wow. I just love the property damage things. All the things. Look the property is like yeah.

[00:32:24]

Helyar damage that property. Do it. Do it.

[00:32:27]

They were able to get their hands on convincing ID papers after they bribed German guards and then once they got a camera they were able to replicate the papers. So they were like really crafty man. So Roger Bushell had previously escaped from enemy hands two times. He was unsuccessful, you know.

[00:32:46]

But of the seventy six people that escaped, seventy three, unfortunately, were recaptured after a massive Nazi manhunt was undertaken. That just makes me sad.

[00:32:57]

This is a very sad and more sad of those. Seventy three fifty were to be executed as demanded by Hitler.

[00:33:05]

All that work. All that work. That's so much trading. Oh, I hate that.

[00:33:11]

I do too. Having the great escape as number one was definitely the perfect choice. Oh, yeah, I mean, that one was definitely the riskiest. Yeah, for sure. That is the most daring, I would say easily. Absolutely. So I agree with that. I'm like, you know what?

[00:33:36]

Park House Research guides. You killed it. Hats off.

[00:33:38]

But she's still trying to prove you wrong out here. But what where is Ted Bundy? He had some pretty gnarly prison escape.

[00:33:46]

OK, good point.

[00:33:47]

Didn't he lose, like, a ton of weight in, like, a week span or something like a hunger strike just so he could fit in the, like, air vent so he could get out of there. And then he escaped into the wilderness where he escaped multiple times. He did.

[00:34:01]

And the other escape that's crazy is when he was in a courthouse and he was in the library up there and he convinced someone because he's him, he convinced someone to unshackle him and then he just dove out a window while they were just standing there in broad daylight. See, and he just. So those are pretty crazy to me. I'm just saying, I mean, it could have been somewhere. I don't know. I don't know. Did I best you Sparkasse research?

[00:34:25]

God, I don't know. But where would it have been on the list? I would put him. I mean, that was a pretty good one. I would say at least like top five. I would say he could be five, maybe even six, because maybe he doesn't deserve like top five based on the top five. Oh, good. Five or six.

[00:34:38]

And they're OK. Well, yeah. Well, guys, thanks for listening. Remember to follow Crime Countdown on Spotify to get a brand new episode delivered every week. And you can find all episodes of Crime Countdown and all of their podcast originals for free on Spotify. Spotify has all your favorite music and podcasts all in one place. They're making it easier to listen to whatever you want to hear for free on your phone, computer or smart speaker. If you can't get enough creepy crimes, check out our After Crime Countdown podcast playlist on Spotify, where we've handpicked even more episodes about this week's stories we think you'll enjoy.

[00:35:17]

And if you like this show, follow at Carquest on Facebook and Instagram and at Podcast Network on Twitter.

[00:35:24]

And if you like us, follow our social media on Instagram at Morbid Podcast and on Twitter at a morbid podcast by. Thanks, guys. Crime Countdown was created by Max Cutler and as a podcast studio's original, it is executive produced by Max Cutler, Sound Design by Kevin MacAlpine, produced by Jon Cohen, Jonathan Rateliff and Kristen Acevedo. Crime Countdown stars Ash Kelly and Elena Erkan.

[00:35:55]

It's the most powerful position in American politics and arguably the world, but behind the oath to preserve, protect and defend lie dark secrets posed to leave some legacies in disgrace.

[00:36:09]

Don't forget to check out the new Spotify original from podcast Very Presidential with Ashley Flowers. Every Tuesday through the 2020 election, host Ashley Flowers shines a light on the darker side of the American presidency, exposing wildly true stories about history's most high profile leaders.

[00:36:30]

To hear more follow very presidential with Ashley flowers free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.