When you hear Zodiac Killer, you probably think of cryptograms encoded notes how a violent murder played cat and mouse games with the cops and journalists. Maybe you picture the crosshairs symbol or the four innocent couples whose dates became nightmares. But people forget the most important part of solving a crime. Eyewitness accounts to Zodiac victims lived to tell the tale. Another lived long enough to describe her killer.

There is literally an eyewitness report from a police officer, but somehow no one's ever caught him and not for lack of suspects. Because today we're covering the top 10 Zodiac killer theories.

The hunt for the Zodiac Killer is more than just a murder investigation. It's basically a three ring circus, public amusement. And the ringmaster is the Zodiac himself. Exactly. The Zodiac wants the public distracted by the codes and the Halloween cards and the horrifying notes about killing children on their way to school. That way, we don't look at the real evidence in catchin. Hey, all you weirdos.

Welcome to the podcast Original Crime Countdown. I'm Ash and I'm Aleena. Every week will highlight 10 fascinating stories of history's most engaging and unsettling crimes, all picked by the PA cast research gods. This week's topic is going to be top 10 Zodiac Killer theories.

This is one of those cases and it's this and JonBenet Ramsey that I'm like. I need answers. Give me the answers. Somebody needs to give me what happened in these two cases. I feel that way about the Bryce last piece. A case. Yes, it's exactly if I had like a genie lamp. Yeah. I would wish for two things. And it's to know who killed JonBenet Ramsey and who's the Zodiac killer.

There you go. I mean, I love a mystery.

And I think we both did, if we do for sure.

And I love being able to, like, connect dots and find missing strands that connect and maybe find things other people have found out. I mean, that's my favorite thing. When are you going to do that?

No one else has found and I good dude, I really found it found.

And I think this one is so enduring, probably mostly due to like the cyphers and the theatrics, because, you know, a theatrical a hole is a memorable one.

That's very true. Let me remind you, the cool part about this show is that Elaina has five topics and so do I, but neither of us knows which five. The other one has. Let's start the countdown.

Ten. Starting us off at number 10 for the top Zodiac Killer theories is George Hodo, who Dell is known for being a suspect in the Black Dahlia murder case.

Thanks to his son Steve, a retired LAPD homicide detective, Steve has put the theories out there that his father, George, killed the Black Dahlia and also is the Zodiac Killer. Real busy. Real busy. I personally believe he is the Black Dahlia killer. Oh, yeah, me too. We talked about that on Morbus. We did. And I think after going through that, I really do believe Judge, who turned out at least had something to do with it.

Me too. I don't know if I'm sold on the Zodiac Killer theory. Well, tell me about this one.

Well, the reason is the theory is a little flimsy. Why? Now, this is a very small detail, but it kind of throws a whole wrench in the whole thing. OK. He wasn't in the U.S. when the killings occurred. And he only returned to the states in 1990. Well, there is such thing as like frequent flyer miles. Or maybe he was just like flying back and forth. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just a fan.

Jet Blue Point, you know, Codell also would have been a few decades older than what they think the Zodiac killer is. OK. But again, I think the Zodiac Killer is.

We don't know. Yeah. You know, like in a costume, we don't know. He could have been a hundred and four. And one of those guys I like runs marathons when he's like 104 for doing it.

Did we don't know this whole thing right here. I think I did a marathon runner who is one hundred and four at the time. All right. We can all go down.

That's it. Well, Steve, his son is also an author. He's a retired LAPD homicide detective and also an author. So that is an appealing narrative. You know, a homicide detective finds father guilty of most notorious unsolved murders.

Yeah. He's like, that's definitely going to sell my accused literally. Like, cha ching. Are going to be a flying off the shelves.

And whenever the narrative is particularly appealing, it's kind of like ranter. He has a horse in the race and I don't love that. But hoedowns shoe size was 10 e. Like the Zodiac Killer, although another alleged Zodiac victim was killed by someone wearing a size six or seven shoe. So could just be wearing different shoes. And I could throw on John's like size Thirteen's and go tromps and into a murder scene and we all jumble around a few times.

I'm not saying it would be easy. I'm not saying it would be graceful. But you could do it. But I could fool you all. I'm just saying so. Odell was a columnist also for the San Francisco Chronicle in the 1930s. That's the same paper that the Zodiac was sending his letters and ciphers to during his killing years. I'm going to be talking about that later.

And it's interesting that he happened to be, you know, a columnist for that paper, a connection.

But it's like, would you be like doing your columns? And then on the side, like inserting your like, that's a lot of work to have to do.

I'm not saying it's the I mean, writing's hard. And also, it's like a murder. Like, that's a law on your to do list.

I think that's what kind of kicks it over the edge. I'm like, I know that's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. There's not enough hours in the day.

No. Nine. At number nine is Bruce Davis, a member of the Manson family.

Heyo and a convicted killer, Bruce Davis theory has been mainly championed by author and conspiracy theorist Howard Davis, who claims that Bruce Davis was never pursued as the Zodiac because it would have interfered with the Manson case.

OK, now I feel like it would've been a good thing because it's like kill two birds with one stone.

You would think so. Right? I would think so.

Well, Bruce Davis was actually one of the first members of the family to commit murder on Charlie Manson's orders. All right. And he was convicted of killing two people. So he has it in him. He definitely has it in him, I'm sure. But I don't really think any of these fools were capable of planning their own murder without Charlie's instructions. I just I agree with you. I think they need the blueprint. Yeah, they definitely do.

They need a quick outline of the nights. They need a how to guide. Yeah, they do. Well, I had mentioned that the conspiracy theorist Howard Davis was involved. Now he feels like Bruce's involvement in the Manson family murders was what made it possible to cover up the fact that he was Zodiac.

OK. I mean, I think we're relying a little too heavily on that. I think we are, too. I think it's a bit of a crock. But OK, Howard. But Howard thought that it was covered up because it would have jeopardized the Manson murder convictions. I can see where he's coming from. But I also have like an argument or two for sure.

So Howard could actually be onto something, though, because the Zodiac murders took place around the San Francisco Bay Area where the Manson family did live for some time. Interesting. So there's that. There were also other people and many other people. I mean, not technically, not like convicted murderers. OK, that's like a check one for go off, Howard, and go off.

And according to Howard, one of the victims of the Manson family had a relative that hired a P.I. to find evidence on the Manson family for the Zodiac killer.

All right. Well, that's a little more telling to me. It definitely does. It's like if a family member of a victim thinks so, then like, what are they going? And it's also like, tell me what's why. I know I wanted to that I want to know more.

I need to know. He also says that a source in the L.A. district attorney's office told him that there was evidence leading Manson to the Zodiac. Well, show me the evidence. I know. Whereas others said it's been a while. I won't.

I mean, it could be legit because if you remember, the Manson women did take most of the spotlight. You know, it could have been like a cover up and Bruce could have been quietly able to kill as the Zodiac while the girls were getting all the attention.

That's true. I mean, they didn't put a lot of focus on them. Now, the only thing I hang on to is I just don't believe those Dirty Hill people would come up with ciphers and stuff. Yeah, they're they're too busy trip and seems a little more like high level than what they were working out with all that belladonna. They were they were trippin on. I was trying to remember what that was called earlier. Thank you.

Eight. Number eight on our list of Zodiac killer theories is a man named Jack Terance. This theory comes from Terrance's stepson, Dennis Koffman, who claims to have found suspicious items like a black hood and Terence's belongings. Wait. So, like, are we talking like a black hood? Like. Or like a black hoodie? A lot of people have black hoodies.

I'm assuming it's like the black like executioners head. I would think so. That the Zodiac. I mean, I don't have one of those. No, I don't either. Just for the record. But I if I found one, I don't think I would necessarily be like, oh no, my dad is this.

I'd be like, Dad, what is this?

I'd be like, Dad, what Halloween did you dress up for? You want to talk, Dad? Well, Dennis Kaufman also claimed because right now it's like, okay, hang onto it. I believe that. Yes. Or whimsy. Well, Dennis Kaufman also claimed to have found a knife with dried blood on it. Well, that's a little less flimsy. Buried the lead on that one. Definitely. Kaufman claims that the handwriting on Zodiac ciphers also looked very much like his stepfather's.

I feel like his stepfather, like, fucked him over somehow. Yeah, something happened there. Yeah. It's all these people being like, my dad did it. I'm mad at my dad. I'm real mad at my dad today because he's the zodiac. There's a running theme. So far, I've rarely been mad at my father, but I've never been so mad at him that I'm like, I'm going to accuse you, man, the Zodiac Killer.

I don't know if my dad listens to this. I'm going to go ahead and plead the Fifth. I can say that you've never written into a newspaper accusing him of being the Zodiac killer, that you know that I know of, at least.

Oh, maybe you should be on this list. Totally get. No, there was no follow up from investigators on Terrance's suspicious items claim. So I'm thinking it's either there was nothing worth pursuing in the first place or they just didn't find it. Or maybe they just didn't feel like it that day. You know how this police work can be. Yeah. I mean, the LAPD in the 1930s was not killing it and definitely not know. I mean, or maybe killing it.

I don't know. He not only believes his father could've been the Zodiac killer, but ding, ding, ding. He thinks he killed the Black Dahlia as well. Yeah. Huh. What? Like, why not of like my dad did this and this and also this. Now it's like, let's just bring the hammer down. Right. Just throw everything in the kitchen. Sink in along with it. Coffin also described Terrance as someone who talks about killing often.

Which the same could be said for us. I know that makes me nervous. So like, I'm not the Zodiac killer in case anybody was wondering re tweet. Let me just state that for the record.

Was he like one of those people that was like, oh, my God. Shut up, I'm going to kill you. And I'm like, I'm going to kill you.

Which I said. I say it all the time, like, I'm going to kill you. Yeah, you do say not now. I'm nervous. Somebody could bring this forth later and I back up a little more. Do it. I'll go over here.

Thank you. There was ultimately no solid proof, which I'm sure it's not shocking, but a fair amount of links came about, which is why the theory still endures to today. And still there still does. Seven. And number seven this week is Ross Sullivan. There's a History Channel documentary featuring Saola Barbara, a retired LAPD homicide detective who believes the evidence supports Sullivan as a possible suspect. Listen in. So there's quite a few fingers to point out, Ross Sullivan.

We're going to start with the smaller stuff. I have 10. So let's do it. I don't know if we have that, but there's a few. So Ross is never far from the Bay Area. We know that as Zodiac's hotspot, we do it.

It feels like a lot of people were never far from where everyone was in the Bay Area altogether.

Every day the whole world's population just rammed into the Bay Area.

He always wore army boots, which is strange not only because there were Army boot prints found at the crime scenes, but also because that really wasn't a fashion trend at the time. Yeah, that makes sense. Like now we'd be like, OK. Army boots. All right. How do people wear combat boots are. So try. That's a thing like in the 90s we would've been like, who? We'll never find them again.

Everyone did. Literally everyone and everyone in the Bay Area with their combat. Oh yeah. Well, it wasn't like that at the time. So that is a good finger to point out. I'm sure also while he was at university, he studied cryptology, which would have assisted him in writing those ciphers that Zodiac used to put in, like everything ever see. That's compelling to me what it's like. How many people do you know, take that course?

Exactly. And I know that's a very big connection to me. I mean, I can merely, like, write calligraphy, so. All right, Ross. Oh, good. And another thing is that there was an occult star right near where he was living at the time. And that store had like a ton of similar images in stock to the ones that Zodiac used to illustrate his letters with. Huh.

Weird. It seems like he probably lived around that store at least. Yeah, he did. Yeah. I mean. I mean, like real Zodiac did. Real Zodiac. Yeah. He was seeing those illustrations obviously. So that's a good connection. Well where did this theory come from in the first place? You asked where did it come from. I knew you were going to ask. I asked. Well, Ross Sullivan was actually a suspect in another murder where the person was killed in a manner like really eerily similar to the way that Zodiac did his killings.

That's pretty coincidental. It is coincidental, but it's like, well, weird. Another murder. I'd say so. And not for nothing.

Ross Sullivan bares like a spooky resemblance to the Zodiac and the sketches that were done of him.

All right, Ross. So how many fingers are you holding up at the end? I don't know. But I got 10 and I'm pointing them at Ross right now. It's like never have I ever. Yeah. George Hodel. Not so much, but Ross, I mean.

Six. Also on our list at number six, Lawrence Kane, who is put forth as a possible suspect by former police officer Harvey Hines. According to Hines, Kane had been near many of the areas where the Zodiac crimes happened when the murders occurred. However, authorities dismissed Kane after questioning to Hines's consternation. Harvey Hinds pointed to Cain's pretty rocky relationship with women. He wasn't the charming, you would say, oh, okay.

And he often became very argumentative with others in moments when he wasn't just being a loner.

And it seems like the Zodiac probably was exactly the same. It seems like it's exactly in Zemo because it's like he explodes when he's doing his murders and he's argumentative, aggressive, murderous. Right. And then it seems like he goes and hides off in a dark corner somewhere as a loner. So because it's like, why did nobody, like, suspect him as like. Yeah, they're well, they're down. I guess they're dead. It was always someone's dad, you know, Hinds pointed out that he had a brain injury that was wearing away and his ability to self regulate urges.

Well, that'll do it. To which I say, even if you're not the Zodiac killer. Get that fixed. Attracta checked out. Yep. Just get it. Regulate who head into the doctor.

Plus, Cain lived where in the San Francisco area just a few blocks from one of the Zodiac murders.

Wait.

He lived there. I mean, I know we have not heard this before from any of these compelling Aleena. He lived there. I mean, he lived in San Francisco. He is the hot ticket right now. It would honestly be easier to say who didn't live in your blood.

Because I feel like everybody was on this list. It's like.

And they lived there and they lived there easy.

Cain had also been in the military for some time, which, of course, is gonna give him access to combat boots, which were found at the scene. Are not the boots, but the prints. Right. Again, not the 90s. So this is a compelling piece of evidence. Yeah. Weird footwear. For the time. Combat boots were apparently few and far between. They were. So I like it so far. I like it. He was also in the South Tahoe area when Donna Laugh's, who was one of the Zodiacs suspected victims, disappeared.

OK. So that's some serious evidence because now we're getting smaller. We're getting closer to the actual victims. Yeah, we're dropping a pin on the map here for that because now he's in the actual South Tahoe area.

When a victim disappears, we're pulling the red string over. We are a little step. We're doing it. We're ready for this. Well, the case was dismissed. Oh, OK. Which infuriated Hinds because he believes that Kane lied and investigators did the interview basically just to shut him up, not to actually get the truth.

Well, like I said, they really just didn't feel like it that day. Maybe. Yeah, they had other stuff to do. You know, I'm really sad that we have to take that board down with the red string. I'm really sad to. You know, I saw George Hodel on this list and I was like, Whoa! Like, he killed Black Dahlia. What do you do?

I know I was confused at first. I was like, wait, was this, like, labeled wrong? I was like, is this supposed to be my guy, you know? And you know what? I was like, All right, I'm ready. And I listened. And I do not think he's somebody.

I thought you were going to say that you did.

I was like, do you really think it's only number 10? No, I don't believe he is also.

It's weird that there's more than one connection to Black Dahlia in this whole thing so far. I know that is really weird, right. Ariel? I'm I'm interested to see if there's more Black Dahlia. As we continue on, so am I. I mean, five down.

Five more to go. Five. All right. Let's jump back in with number five on our list of Zodiac killer theories. Maybe not the most plausible theory, but the links are interesting. In 1996, San Francisco police pursued the theory that the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, was the Zodiac killer.

I'm interested in your interest. I mean, are you ready? So as everything started to unfold and all the details became public about Kazinsky is crimes, a ton of people started calling into investigators and they were like, well, this is similar. This is similar. This is similar to all had the Zodiac's crimes. They're like, I feel like I know something. I feel like I've seen this before. Well, like those mentioned before, Kazinsky lived in the Bay Area.

Oh, my God. Mind boggling.

He lived in the area. He did. From 1967 to 1969. He did it. Which I mean, that was the exact time that the Zodiac was doing this killing. I mean, it really was. He lived there. I'm saying. Well, both the Zodiac and Kazinsky did write in to the San Francisco Chronicle to brag about their crimes. That's true. And I got that. I mean, that is pretty weird. Yeah. It's like I mean, it is a big it's a newspaper that's like, you know, especially a big newspaper at the time.

So it's so like at first it's like, yeah, wow. It's like, well, it's the newspaper.

Now that I think of it, I'm like, where they writing to George Hodel are you know, it was the other guy, the other industry there.

Well, the other weird thing was that Kazinsky back in his day signed a high school yearbook with a symbol similar to those that the Zodiac used to use.

So I think that's weird because I definitely don't draw those and people see X. I mean, their crosshairs. So that is a little weird to sign in someone's yearbook. Yeah, but it's like compelling and not compelling at the same time. Normally you just write like hag's. Have a good summer. Heggs, Heggs, Love, Ashwell.

I never thought the Zodiac symbol was like particularly interesting to know. Lame. It seems the gwai pick cross-hair like that. So on the nose, it's like how BTK enjoyed water. It's just like. Yes. And like he tried to make his own symbol and it just didn't work out for him, amongst other things. But yeah. Exactly. I always think like that the symbols are always just godlike ruler. Well, back to Ted and Zodiac because there are similarities between the two.

But you're right, the theory doesn't hold up. And it's for a couple of reasons, really. They actually bear no physical resemblance whatsoever. No, because Ted Kazinsky, like, went to live in the wilderness for a while and got, like, real lean. Oh, he got really, like, very lean, very lean while he was out there, even very mean. And the Zodiac, like, we're not gonna lie. He was like kind of thick, kind of on the thick side.

I mean, in relation to Ted Kazinsky. Absolutely. Yeah.

And the ammos of the two were completely different. Because we know the Zodiac used knives and guns and all that jazz. Oh, yeah. And Kazinsky obviously used bombs, you know, very different and very big. Different M.O.s. Yeah. Well, and then to go even further, the San Francisco police compared Kazantzakis fingerprints to a bloody print found at one of the Zodiac slaying scenes. And the theory was completely dismissed. I was going to say. And what happened?

Nothing. He was the Zodiac. Remember, it's still unsolved. It is. And funny story that connects the Unabomber to this. I wrote a series of articles when I was writing for Bussel dot com, and it was about the Unabomber because there was like a TV story about him. And I got to interview James Fitzgeralds, who is the criminal profiler and linguists that helped get him caught.

You've done like so many cool, random things in your life who's very random. I'm like, one time I watched the Zodiac movie. Look at me.

For. Next step, number four, we have Earl Van Best Junior. This theory about Earl began from a man named Gary Stewart who wanted to find his biological father. That led him to his mother's rapist, Earl Van. Best junior gross. In the process of his investigation, Stewart came to strongly believe that Earl was the Zodiac killer. There, like a big theme of dads here. Dads. Yikes. And not killing it in this list. Are they.

Oh, Zeke. But, um. So even a major publishing company spokesperson, HarperCollins Publishers. Big deal. Big, big publishing company. This spokesperson said that the Zodiac Killer and Earl Van Best Junior had, quote, more than a passing resemblance. Which if you look it up. Do they really look alike? They're exact Twyning like Twyning, 100 percent to the extreme. Even the nose.

I mean, they have the same glasses, which you like. I always I'm like, well, anybody who wore glasses. I was going to say the same nose, like everything. It's every single part of them. Looks exactly like that, Scott. Well, what's the haircut? Because it's only number four. I'm sorry. Well, best was a bad guy from the beginning, obviously, because he was a rapist. He raped Gary Stewart's mother when she was 14.

That's horrific. So it's like even if he isn't Zodiac, let's just pin it on him anyways, because he sucks.

I am in full agreement like he did it. He's the worst. It was him. Stuart found the words E.V. Best and Junior in one of the cryptograms that the killer sent to the San Francisco Examiner like a little word search san. And those aren't just words that you just like pull out of thin air. Yeah, that's weird. They literally match up to someone's name to his exact name. Also, a handwriting expert tie the best signature on his marriage certificate to letters the killer sent to the media.

Oh, OK. Where does this, like, fall apart? And the other thing is he is the Zodiac Killer.

Goodbye. Branding on number four. Thank you and good night. See you next time. Stewart also goes with the fingerprints. His father's fingerprints actually match some of those at a crime scene from the Zodiac. And he says they both have a diagonal scar. Oh, which. That's weird. I see. That's like a biggie.

Yeah, I agree with you. Like, we don't all have diagonal scars that our children can point to. No finger for it. Can't say I do. Stuart alleges that the police wanted to wrap up the investigation early because one of the officers was married to Stewart's mother.

While that'll do it. I mean, to me, I'm like, this is number one, right? I know. I know. And like we did Rob.

Well, he says they believed the embarrassment of an officer being with a killer's former lover would tarnish the department's reputation. I would go as far as to say that, yes, they're correct.

It's like, yeah, probably it would be a little scandalous for like, are we really going to take that over?

Catching one of the most was going to say killers on the planet might be a little more scandalous if you just, like, let the killer go.

Because he is. Yeah, dude. My vote is. That's more scandalous. Now, apparently the vote didn't go so well. Stewart wrote about this in the most dangerous animal of all, which gives him, unfortunately, kind of like Hodel. It gives him a financial incentive to stick to this theory, no matter how any any holes that come about. He's like, nope, nope. I wrote a book about it, best seller, and it's like, shit, Stuart, you had this pretty compelling eye until you had a horse in the race.

And then I just I immediately I'm like, oh, I gotta go. Maybe you were trying to, like, shoehorn these theories in there. Maybe. Number three on our list of Zodiac killer theories is Richard Reid Marshall, who was born Joe Don Dickey. Same thing. Obviously, there is no explanation why he went by two names. But Marshall allegedly made some suspicious comments that resulted in him becoming a person of interest. Tell me. So he lived in the Bay Area.

No, he didn't.

It did, Frazey, you know, and he worked at a San Francisco movie theater while the Zodiac murders were happening. So he lived and worked there. I mean, growing up on everybody, yes.

He did seem like a pretty good fit for the Zodiac because his appearance matched the description of the killer. He was like a stocky, thick guy who wore glasses. All right. I mean, there's a lot of them out there. There certainly is. He was in the Navy and because of that, he had been trained and codes.

All right. So interesting. There's another one that's a good one. He also had a portable typewriter, which is what the Zodiac used to type out his letters. This is not something everybody has. OK, that's weird. Now I'm trying to figure out how small a portable typewriter is because those things are heavy.

They certainly are. Like, wow, that's quite something to be carrying around in your briefcase. I'm pretty sure Leopold and Loeb had one of those, too. I think you're right. They stole one. Yeah, I remember. You're right. And they were, like, stoked about those portable typewriters.

They were like the hot commodity. One of the victims of the Zodiac was Darlene Ferrin. And Marshall reportedly lived just blocks away from her at one point.

All right. Ziggy's close. He's we're really like jazmín that puzzle piece in there. It seems like it's going to fit. I'm feeling real good about this one, but it's number three. And there's an issue. He wasn't known to be controlling or violent. And there was literally not one piece of physical evidence that matched him. So even though he is considered by a lot of people like, don't get me wrong, a lot of people consider him a prime suspect.

But the theory just really isn't substantiated.

Yeah, that's a tough one. And also, profiling wasn't like in its prime then.

So it was like, you're sure you're kind of stocky and you wear glasses. I think you did it like at this point.

I think they were like he killed people. He's probably angry and aggressive. Sure. And it was no way builds inside of the killer's mind.

Does he do? Yes. Did it. I mean, I'm still I'm feeling good about Ross. I'm feeling good about Earl Van Best Junior.

I'm feeling real good about Best Van Junior. Yeah. Earl. Feeling good about her. Earl did it.

So like a Dixie Chicks song. Yeah. Well, it's like. Goodbye, Earl. Goodbye, Earl. Yeah. Goodbye. I'm ready to say bye, Earl. Goodbye, Earl. I'm ready to say bye to him anyways, because he's gross. Yeah, I agree. I'm excited to see what's coming up. Well, I have no one, so I know.

To. And number two is Richard Guy Koski. This theory is widely championed by Tom Voit, who has run the Web site Zodiac Killer dot com for over two decades. Most of the evidence here seems to be possible coincidence, but it's interesting stuff nonetheless. Tell me more. That Web site is really interesting, by the way.

Everybody should check it out. So Guy Koski had a military career which we know lines him up with boots. Right. And he was a medic, which means he was well-trained around injuries and bodies.

So he would also know where to inflict that. He certainly would.

Now, I'm also well-trained around injuries and dead bodies. I am not the Zodiac killer, so I don't know. Aleena. Did you live in San Francisco at one point? Oh, no. You caught me. You actually did.

So it's fine. I didn't. So fingerprint comparison is impossible now since Geico ski's records from jail were long gone before the investigation really began. So that sucks. That does suck because fingerprints are a thing that really could crack this open. They're like the thing. They're literally the only thing at this point that Koskie also allegedly moved cross-country at the same time that Zodiac victim Darlene Ferrin moved. Oh, OK. I mean, that's weird. And she's making another appearance.

She is Darlene. She's everywhere. That is very weird. They were both moving cross country at the same time. Was he following her exactly like did he know her?

Did you see her once? He also worked in the same building as her husband for a rival newspaper. It's getting hotter in here. It's getting scandalous. The Zodiac allegedly never mailed letters on Wednesdays. Which is interesting to me. Wednesday was his day off. Now, this is important because that same day is the day that guy Koski. His day job was really busy all day.

OK. And he didn't have time to write letters getting weirder. Yeah. This is getting really weird.

Guy Koskie would also shorten his last name to four letters and use multiple spellings. Well, gee, why? Kaixi can be seen in Zodiac's three parts cipher mailed July 30 1st, 1969. I'm like on the edge of my seat for this one. Now, Nancy Slover, the police dispatcher who spoke with the Zodiac, which is crazy to me. That's so now.

Can you imagine them being like I did? Yeah, like she spoke to the Zodiac in July 1969. She identified Guy Koutsoukis voice as being the same voice that Zodiac Killer had.

OK, why is this not number one? I don't know, because I don't know why I'm freaking out at the end of the day. The evidence was not substantial enough to warrant arrest. But I say apparently none of this evidence is. This is all good evidence. Koski did it. One. And that brings us to the number one spot on our list of Zodiac killer theories.

A name you've heard surrounding this case for years. Arthur Lee, Alan Alan has been the only suspect named by authorities who investigated the Zodiac murders, but he died before a case could be brought against him.

And all of the evidence linking Alan to the murders can be called circumstantial.

So that's a real bummer. But circumstantial evidence is like it could get you, you know.

Yeah. And you know what? They always go ahead and die before you can do anything about it. How real nice, Arthur.

Come on, man. Well, after reading a book, Zodiac, that's the name of it. There you go. You know. By the point. It is by Robert Graysmith. Many people started to think Arthur Leigh Allen was a suspect. This is like what really made them feel that I did, too.

I forgot about this guy. Did you read them now that you said the actual name? I'm like, well, shit. You're like, well, that makes sense. Can't argue with the girls. Damn it. So Allen spent time in the military, which made him a good candidate because it would explain the boots again, the boot Zebu Jasper.

I was just going to say that I hate the Army boots were not his only Zodiac esque fashion statement. So he owned. Now, this is weird. A Zodiac watch that was adorned with what we now know as the infamous cross-hair symbol.

Who I remember reading this so like it is weird. Why do you have that watch? And if you had that watch at the time, why would you not get rid of it? Exactly. Weird. And it's like that's pretty sloppy to use that symbol that's on your watch. Yeah.

Your dumb islanded confessed that he had knives covered in blood on the day that there were attacks at Lake Baraza. But according to him, those knives were used to kill a chicken. Of course they were. Which is a little different. It's like, come on, guys. He's like, I just really wanted chicken nuggets that night feel chickens. We kill chickens.

We'll keep checking all the chickens. She says, well, one of his former friends, Don Chaney, told the police that Allen admitted to him he wanted to kill couples at random. And not only did he want to do that, he wanted to use the name Zodiac while he did it. Oh, so he admitted to wanting to be Zodiac before Zodiac existed and were like, I wonder if he did it. Yeah. I mean, scratch your head a little bit on that one.

That also reminds me of BTK because he, like, named himself. So he's like, I've got to do this. And he named the Zodiac.

How cool is that name? Yeah. Stupid. Well, he was, in fact, arrested, and it was the only official arrest in the case. So that's kind of a big deal. It is. There were search warrants served, but no concrete evidence ever came up, of course. And so that's annoying. And then in 2002, they did a DNA test and it found that Allen couldn't have been the Zodiac killer.

Hate that. But a lot of people are like, well, why? How is that test conducted? Yeah. People have a lot of questions. I got to see the lab report.

I mean, I'm still an Arthur Lee Allen purist. I think I totally forgot about him. Yeah, I definitely think he's a good candidate . And when I read that, I was definitely like, yes. I read that book. Yes.

Greg Koski was a pretty good one, too, though. Now it's like neck and neck. I know about Guy Koutsky. Neither did I. I considered myself to be an absurdly open champion. He's the Zodiac Banan. Like you're converting your Zodiac faith.

I kind of think so, too. Like I'm totally on Guy Koski for doing it. And it's like the watch. Yeah, the zodiac watch with the crosshairs symbol. It's like, why did you have that, too much? And then I want Earl to be the guy just because I hate him and I want to be like, Earl, you did it. Yeah, I did the work. But then is like somebody wrote that book. So it's like yeah.

And that's the thing and has the convenient narrative about it. Right. I'm with Arthur or Bykofsky. I agree. I really do think that. Yeah. Me too. You know what, the podcast research guys killed it. They always do. You have yet to prove them wrong. I'm gonna say someone who is going to happen.

I can't believe I forgot. Arthur Leigh Allen. I can't believe that. Wow. I'm upset. And you got it together.

I'm gonna try. Well, thanks for listening.

We'll be back next week with another great episode. You can find all episodes of Crime Countdown and all other podcast originals for free on Spotify.

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